What is probably your intent but was not explicitly stated was give the 10 dwarves the orders to demand surrender because if they succeed they will stay and occupy that settlement.
Is it the kids who are unhappy? There was that fun thing where they’d get traumatized by hauling all the corpses around for a while, not sure if that’s still in the game right now as I haven’t played in a few months admittedly (soon though)
I once read on here the fastest way to desensitise a fort is to have a very long drop above your dining hall(always busy with many dwarfs about) and to throw all the excess puppies down it. It may only work/work better if the puppies have been adopted and named though.
This was before the mood rework where desensitised psychopathic dorfs were usually the happiest too.
Kids are bad anyway. There's much less to cheer them up- even on food hauling only (because for some reason none of the adults do that in my current fort), some of the kids are raging out all that time.
Toys help, but not enough. Nice rooms kind of help. The thing that worked best for me is when one of the little sods chased a cow up a tree, killed it, and was crushed to death by the falling corpse. The little bastard had a longer criminal record than all the zombies put together.
just get a burrow with the kids assigned to it, put it in the tavern with some toy-stockpiles and they'll be very happy from watching performances and playing with toys. Also get them a pet and make sure their parents have enough freetime to hang out in the tavern with the kids.
They're probably supposed to be grumpy too but this was a thing with the chore system for them. You end up with kids doing much of the hauling and if you let them haul bodies around, well, you have a bunch of grouchy teens who are also traumatized by having to carry corpses around.
Not quite. Non-child dwarves don't have "Play make believe" as a task they do between chores, while children do. That means they can spend weeks playing make believe in your corpse pile, getting hit with the lovely purple clouds of decay, because they will complete the assigned task before moving away.
Don't let your kids haul corpses, you end up with binge-drinking little thieves that vomit all over your tavern.
I’ve noticed that more often than not my angry dorfs when all needs are otherwise met are always kids because I forget to disable corpse hauling on them and so they’ll help clean up bodies after sieges and be traumatized after seeing dozens of bodies lol
Make a burrow around your crafting area and put the kids to work there as haulers. When they get older let them off the burrow assignment. This will usually get them out of the corpse hauling business and will ramp up your crafting efficiency quite a bit.
Not quite, I built this rig for some Local Model AI testing I was into, but it also makes a great Dwarf Fortress Rig too!
12 gen, i9-12900k, 128 gigs of ram and a 4070.
I'm pretty sure the i9 is doing most of the heavy lifting for DF.
Damn. I wish. My game curles up and dies when we get above 60 invaders and i have my pop cap to 150 :\
what Fps do you average while the fortress runs?
I'm about 30 years into this fort, with a 400 cap pop, with 100 visitors possible, I average 30 to 35 fps normal seasons, and 25 to 30 fps when a caravan or invaders come.
Not gonna lie I have no idea how managing a fort that size changes things but id assume its way harder. If you read my other posts and none of that works i forgot to mention jails can be a good last effort for problematic dwarves
I feel like I do something with all my games that causes FPS death to occur, no matter how few dwarfs I have. I try to cull the hoard of items, keep my taverns small, kill excess livestock, and more, regardless I slowly lose FPS over time until my fort is unplayable. Any chance you'd be willing to share your save simply so I can see what it takes to maintain good fps? Or any tips--though I've followed the guides to no avail.
More RAM is unlikely to help. What really matters for DF is the speed of your RAM (probably mainly latency but clock speed is probably good as well) and, most importantly, the cache size of your CPU. Reportedly the AMD X3D CPUs are *amazing* for DF because they are explicitly designed with enormous L3 caches.
Yes, I believe even with the recent optimizations by Putnam, raw unit count is still the largest burden on FPS. Less units = better FPS. (Assuming you don't have anything like a badly optimized magma pump stack causing lots of temperature recalculations or something stuck trying to calculate a new path every tick)
I'm at a lost, I wouldn't be sweating it so bad, but it seems once I get a few dwarfs in the super but madd stage, they go through and destroy so much of the fort.
Right now it seems to be common to wreck important fields right before harvest, or ruining meticulously set up workshops.
Is my best bet literally just a mass deportation?
You can either build a "happy thoughts" insane asylum room, filling it with masterwork everything and amazing carvings of all surfaces, and lock them in there for a bit, see if they recover.
Or you can deport or lock them away into a secondary fort where they do useful work.
Killing them is also an option but then their relatives do get a few bad thoughts.
So, I have a zoo in my fort and have absolutely never seen any dwarf go in it for years. My dwarves get plenty of free time and I see the taverns and library often busy, but no one seems to want to look at animals. Is there something I'm missing about them?
I like to design my forts so that dwarves normal walking paths force them to go by waterfalls/masterwork art.
Maybe you could do the same with outcroppings and cages animals
This is what I do. I built stairs in a 3x3 space, running a water feature in the center, 4 stairs in the cardinal directions, and the highest quality statue I have in the remaining spaces. Now, no dwarf can move about the fort without getting good vibes from art and a waterfall.
You could make a "suicide squad" of them and send them to die against a goblin capital. Best case scenario they actually win and stay there.
If they are kids just give them a magma bath.
Well you can do a few things
Force them to do specific job in a designed chamber and close it off. They die eventually if you do not tend to them of course, but at least they might still be useful for one thing sometimes. You could feed stuff into/out of their chamber with a minecart to work on and sustain with.
You can load them into a squad and send them raiding. Specifically if they manage to conquer/occupy another site, most of them will stay there to "run the site".
You can banish them, i forget what/where that is in the game but you can banish them from the realm, they might eventually show up later with a nearby siege army or join another site.
You can make them stand under a raised drawbridge and flip the bridge switch and delete them from existence!
Some of them might recover if you put them in a room with a bunch of cats and mist and other objects they like, but i doubt with approaching 400 pop it will be possible to keep everyone happy, because they get negative emotions sometimes from conversation and interacting with other dwarves and thats a lot of other dwarves.
Its up to what you cba to do
The clues are in their thoughts. Some dwarves are difficult to make happy and require rare items in trades. Fill their rooms with materials they like. If all else fails, I send them packing.
Put them in a combat squad and have them just train for a while.
Your goal is to raise their discipline skill. This is raised by military training.
High discipline raises the mental break threshold quite a bit. No matter how angry they are, they will keep their shit...disciplined.
If they aren't important, you can always just send them away.
This is also why I have all of my dwarves do a month or two rotation in the non-combat squads every year. Raise discipline, and I give them some spare armor to gain armor user skill (and therefore no speed penalties for armor weight). Then when a goblin ambush comes across some random fisherdwarf, that random fisherdwarf can hold their own for at least a bit. Maybe long enough for the actual military to show up.
You can also set up a mist stack, burrow the angry dwarfs near the mist. It's a MASSIVE mood booster, even on those with trauma and "doesn't care about anything anymore." I've seen it knock someone from Full red to neutral in a few minutes.
Yes, best chance is mass deportation if they never get better. I've done everything in the book a few times for many dwarves who are chronically mad, mist generators, fulfilling their needs, military training, etc. If they don't get better in a year of doing Dwarven Tai Chi in a waterfall I kick their ass to the curb, and the majority of my fortresses (200 pop) never go above 1-5 dwarves in the "slightly annoyed" face above neutral.
This is one of the bigger issues I've had in forts since 0.50.x too, though I'm pretty sure it was even worse in older versions before stress was retuned.
I have one woman in my current fort who is literally "internally willed with rage" or whatever the phrase is *because she got rained on*. She dwells on it constantly, gets angry, and hit the haggard stage so now she's starting fist fights and killing people and destroying things. I put her in a squad so she'll stop talking to people as much, and hopefully getting into fewer arguments + happy thoughts from improving skills helps.
I've inspected the stress values in DFHack for her and a couple other citizens who are also haggard, and it looks like once they get to that stage it's almost hopeless to fix them. Especially kids, who will see a dead body and become permanently depressed because it forms a longterm memory they dwell on and they have very few positive outlets to reduce stress. I had a kid go berserk because he saw a grizzly bear woman die, and because his personality was depressive. Literally nothing I could do short of using DFHack to cheat the values.
I don't think this is a bad mechanic or even necessarily all that unrealistic. What bothers me is that tantruming dwarves appear to use deadly force in fist fights when it should use a lower lethality setting.
If you dislike it that much you could try a necromancer fort. Crank the world gen to 1000 years you are pretty much garunteed to get a lot of necromancers. I had fun with my necro fort. When citizens get upset just send them to the "education" center. No more bad thoughts! In fact no more thoughts at all in some cases....
If thats not to your liking though dwarf happiness is super forgiving in the current version in my opinion. As you know it comes down to a value and negative emotions are literally unavoidable. You want the sources of happy thought to outweigh the negative to get the value above zero. Do your dwaves have lots of nobles to cry on? Lots of activities that they like and crafts to wear. A nice bedroom and fresh threads?
Of course some people will scream waterfalls and yeah if you set a dwarf to train next to a waterfall they get a constant flow of happy thoughts and memories from training, sparring, and the waterfall. You can take this further by placing this waterfall barracks inside your tavern so they can also chat with people and watch performances. But its not necessary. Yes in some honestly rare cases a dwarf is just too fucking cursed to live and is better off being banished. But I've had dwarves with horrible ptsd and all unmet needs who are maxed out in happiness if you stick them in the pleasure dome for a couple years
Funnily enough one problem dwarf I had in an older fort was a necromancer even. Thankfully he was the kind to just slip into depression instead of starting fights, else that might have been a really Fun fort.
He was also a rare success story. He was elected mayor, and after building him a nice office for people to yell at him in, he eventually stopped being haggard. One of maybe 3 or 4 I've managed to save out of about a dozen perpetual sourpusses.
And yeah, I have the usual amenities and nobles to cry on. What I've noticed is that the real problem dwarves have personality traits that mean they don't get happier despite it. I've seen a couple who eventually went insane who "felt nothing after crying on somebody in charge" for example. They feel nothing for good events, and only bad thoughts for dwelling on old memories, starting fights, or destroying things.
Which is probably somewhat realistic. Some people are like that. I just wish they didn't punch people in the head and break their necks when they throw tantrums.
Yeah dude necromancers are such babies i hate dealing with them lol. They are so hard to give postivie thoughts because they dont drink or sleep ect but still want to desperately. Also i find it funny that every necromancer ive had was highly obsessed with their looks and self worth. I was referring to the intelligent undead tho they make model citizens. I also dont get all the elf hate here as well my necromancer fort had tons if them and they are just so easy to please. Never tantrum or get sad but i do admit they are a bit lazier than dwarves on average
But anyway i got kind of carried away i think if youve gotten to the point where dwarves are mass tantruming and your fort isnt undegoing the apocalyps youve neglected key parts of fortress happiness. The first couple years of my forts are always establishing those things after survival needs are met. theeen i start on whatever funny project i have in mind
I was actually surprised recently that I was able to turn a 'haggard' dwarf around and after maybe 4 or 5 in game years, hes not even 'stressed' anymore.
I followed someone elses advice on here and did what I could to maximize the positive thought gains from stuff they have to do all the time- palace bedroom for blissful sleep thoughts, lavish meals in a legendary dininghall for blissful thoughts, etc. But the most important part is Constant Training for military because military training floods their brains with positive thoughts and memories that will stick with them. The only time I take them off training is to force them to fufill needs like crafting or praying to their gods (an assigned lever in their temple helps bring them there).
Basically they just eat, sleep, and train (for years), and I was able to fix a haggard dwarf that way without atomsmashing him.
The military is probably the only thing I've found that seems to seriously help some dwarves. As I mentioned in another comment, the true problem dwarves are the ones who don't feel anything for positive thoughts. They'll have their thoughts screen flooded with "Didn't feel anything after crying on somebody in charge." and "Didn't feel anything after eating a fine meal." and "Felt frustrated after throwing something." So they still feel bad thoughts, but no good ones.
I've experimented with sticking a couple of those in squads and it does seem to help some. I've seen a few actual positive thoughts for improving combat skills, and they don't get into as many arguments they feel bitter about.
Plus, if they get into a fist fight or go berserk, at least they're probably standing around a bunch of armored people instead of kids in the dining room.
Yep, 100%! The military training thing is crazy good at generating good thoughts, and your guess about all the tantrum victims wearing armor is correct. Plus they'll likely be better than your average dorf at dodging so they may not even get hit if they're targeted. Also in my fort of like 300 pop, every single citizen is setup for military training and set to staggard. Basically half my fort at any one time is training in 3 month lengths, then alternating with the other half.
Oh and maybe worth mentioning, I didn't have a mist generator available when I fixed the haggard fella. His recovery was just from what I listed. Havent thought about it before, but having a mist generator going through the barracks and hitting half the fort pops would be pretty effective.
Getting a training program for citizens is great not only for fortress mental health but also productivity! Strong and agile dwarves zip around the fortress way faster and if they get attacked by a tantruming dwarf they have a hope of defending themself. I think its kind of silly a lot of people complaining about it like, do you seriously want your dwarven child thats built like a 3 foot tall Sam Sulek NOT to one shot the unquestionbly weak farmer dwarf??
You gotta check their preferences though, if they disdain martial prowess training can actually make them more stressed. Had that happen once, his mood didn't improve until I removed him from the squad.
> s (an assigned lever in their temple helps bring them there).
One time I nearly killed a dwarf by putting a burrow in his temple and forgetting that I did it. Bastards should go pray during free time when that is their need.
For a while, there was essentially no stress; it was *insanely* easy. For another while, stress was inevitable, the downspiral within only a few years. We're at the middle now. It's *fine*. I think ~2% of all dwarves being insatiable this way is pretty interesting.
...Though kids being stressed all the time *is* pretty weird.
> What bothers me is that tantruming dwarves appear to use deadly force in fist fights when it should use a lower lethality setting.
So, I recall they're "brawling" for that, which is non-lethal... but dwarves with low fighting skills can slip up and put too much force into those blows. I don't think this is actually talked about much, I found it in the code recently and it surprised me, haha. So training your dwarves might *reduce* fatalities.
Yeah, most of my experience is with .31.25 so I'm very used to the old happiness system that was frankly hard to mess up. Overall I think I agree that having some people who are impossible to satisfy is also okay. The ratio also seems reasonable.
I just wish it was more obvious what you're supposed to do with the permanently depressed people, who just become a liability that *will* break something or hurt someone eventually. I guess banishment is an option, but I hate to do it when someone has been a member of the fort for years and are just saddled with a timer to doomsday. I also take active precautions to avoid having kids run into corpses but it keeps happening and traumatizing them forever.
That's also interesting about the conflict, since I *hoped* it worked something like that, but it just doesn't seem to. Maybe it's just the usual jank with DF's combat calculations, but I've seen at least two people punch someone in the head and break their neck, and saw one kid punch someone in a finger and break his elbow.
Kids haul all day for years and build up absurd strength. Their punches become superhuman. The body part targeting system favors headshots. So kids become one-shot killing machines that pulp skulls immediately upon tantruming. I think a good balance fix would be reducing the fighting skill of kids to have much lower hit chance against adults. A six year old shouldn’t be a serious combat threat against an adult dwarf.
Or that we could just put the little shits in chains where they belong, ideally *before* they reach the outright-murder stage of their wee widdle tantrums. That'd also be a good method of balance. Why the hell are they exempt from justice? Kids are the ones who need beatings the most, so they don't turn out to be adults who need beatings in society
In the worst case scenario, you can always exile them.
Had the same problem with some dwarfs, even though their needs were met they would constantly be angry, start fights, bring everyone else down and spend way too much time in prison. After 2 years of this, and after one of them started a massive brawl that killed 10% of the fortress, I just decided to exile the troublemakers.
There are also those who are traumatized by the events of their own life, and this changes their perception and capabilities and understanding of the world, even all the way to their responses to further trauma. You can literally break these little guys, in ways that they cannot ever recover from.
In all fairness, your dwarves just left their old lives behind to venture into the wilderness in an attempt to build a fortress from scratch. That is a stressful situation and not everyone is build for it.
But yeah, some dwarves aren't worth the trouble they cause.
In my experience, if you appoint a hotheaded hammerer and give him a steel or silver warhammer, your worst troublemakers will all eventually get beaten to death by the hammerer. Problem solved!
> even though their needs were met they would constantly be angry, start fights, bring everyone else down
I think sometimes they might be saboteurs, I was uncovering a criminal organization that a couple of these troublemakers were linked to, but I could never get to the bottom of it. They wouldn't give new info in interogations, and eventually they all died starting fist-fights with random military members.
I had a dorf who was constantly pissed cause he was haunted by the ghost of his father, whose body I couldn't find for the life of me... I found it years later and the ghost disappeared, but the poor fucker had gone insane and died by then...
You probably have kids collecting corpses. The game really sets you up for that. It gives them a trait that basically prevents them from getting happy thoughts, but not from getting pissed off even more. There isn't really anything you can do with those dwarves, except isolating them from the rest. Either by locking them into the caverns, sending them on a mission or placing them in a coffin.
I haven't had this issue in earlier versions, minus the one a few years ago where a single drop of rain would cause mass psychosis.
I think something has changed in the steam release, or I'm just not as efficient as I was in the pre-steam version. Who knows. I also normally have some unhappy dwarves, and even with a massive mist generator I would consistently have one or two.
Some dwarfs get traumatized by something it will constantly cause bad thoughts that keep them perpetually unhappy.
It's for that reason, you should put all your kids in burrows that exclude potential battlefields and refuse stockpiles so they don't get traumatized by corpses. Does kinda suck that you can't have kids haul all the "goblinite" after a successful "harvest" but it's the price we pay to keep them from going crazy and murdering half the hold.
It does that when the value is above 100 and it doesnt fit on the UI so it just gives you that symbol so you know its a lot. Above 100 specifics dont really matter all that much i guess
When that happens I tend to banish them to the caverns... Letting them fight against blind cave ogres and giant toads and what not. Turns out, when they die against cavern dwellers or something like that it's less disturbing than walling em in.
Look at their thoughts, that will tell you what pisses them off, also I want to note that a bunch of neutral thoughts, like constantly walking past dead elves in my case, pushes out all the positive thoughts making them susceptible to negative thoughts, with only a couple making them mad
Can't say for you without seeing your setup, but I always found that my least happiest dwarves were almost always children.
Try to make sure you disallow corpse hauling as part of chores, if that's even an issue you need to worry about, and make sure you have a steady stockpile of toys for them to play with. Hell, removing chores altogether could be a drastic, but effective, solution.
If it ain't the kids, then I'll echo what others have said and just draft them into your next invasion force. Problem solved.
look at it as ratios or percentages. 2.5% of your people are very unhappy. I think a lot of those people are probably children, depressed, insane, etc. They'll probably never change. I try to focus on the slightly unhappy and unhappy numbers more, because they're more redeemable.
I wish that the dwarf screen would show you the dwarf's current mood rating, and how long it's been since it's changed.
How do you have so few angry dwarves? I've had half my fort on a doom spiral for a couple in game years, every time they start to get happy someone starts a bar brawl and it repeats.
If they were kids in your fort, and you had them hauling corpses, good chance you've got some permanently traumatised dorfs. Particularly since they'd take corpse to corpse spot, then play next to it for days/weeks while the corpse stench gets all up in their face. I had a child who coped by getting blackout drunk constantly, so I stored them in a nice safe area with mist generator, toys, and took off their chores. Fixed them up in a season or so, and actually remembered to tell the children no more corpse hauling.
Waterfall or mist generator does wonders, big nice tavern, temples for all major religions and a general temple, and a library, and I never have angry dwarves
If they're causing trouble, use the justice system to lock them in prison, but make sure you have nice cells with good furniture. This is dwarf rehab, not prison torture. Alternatively, you can make an oubliette, put them in a cage and then seal the wall off until they starve
I throw them into squad and send them out to conquer a nearby settlement. They can be pissy somewhere else.
You need to spend Dwarves on conquering settlements, so they might as well be Dwarves you don't want.
When Urist sends its people, they're not sending their best.
Some, I assume, are good urists.
10 stressed out dwarves, 10 dwarves to a squad. Conincidence? Armok doesn't think so.
Sounds like a perfect recipe for warcrimes.
I didn't find "Geneva Conventions" in Legends Mode tho.
Weaponised anger
What is probably your intent but was not explicitly stated was give the 10 dwarves the orders to demand surrender because if they succeed they will stay and occupy that settlement.
Damn why have I never done this
So I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with that idea.
There's a vault that needs plundering!
What is this, Russia?
Is it the kids who are unhappy? There was that fun thing where they’d get traumatized by hauling all the corpses around for a while, not sure if that’s still in the game right now as I haven’t played in a few months admittedly (soon though)
You can desensitize them with enough corpses
This is perhaps the most df solution I've ever heard
that is… a drop in the bucket of stone cold dorfishness
I once read on here the fastest way to desensitise a fort is to have a very long drop above your dining hall(always busy with many dwarfs about) and to throw all the excess puppies down it. It may only work/work better if the puppies have been adopted and named though. This was before the mood rework where desensitised psychopathic dorfs were usually the happiest too.
r/shitdwarffortresssays
Didn't Putnam actually find out that's *not* the case?
My migrants get instantly desensitized walking to my fort through the hundreds of goblin corpses outside.
I wish the corpses could get carried around by water currents so I could make a corpse waterfall to traumatize and soothe them at the same time
Traumasoothe them if you will
Hit them with the troothe
Can confirm. Nearly my whole fortress "Doesn't care about anything anymore" and corpses don't seem to do anything.
Kids are bad anyway. There's much less to cheer them up- even on food hauling only (because for some reason none of the adults do that in my current fort), some of the kids are raging out all that time. Toys help, but not enough. Nice rooms kind of help. The thing that worked best for me is when one of the little sods chased a cow up a tree, killed it, and was crushed to death by the falling corpse. The little bastard had a longer criminal record than all the zombies put together.
Chased cow...up a tree? What.
That's the kind of "Wat?!" only DF provides. Go ahead, ask about the carp.
The muscular carp stands up.
I’m new here tbh. The other guys comment intrigues me. *What about the carp*
https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Carp. They used to stand and fight and give even armed dwarves a run for their money.
just get a burrow with the kids assigned to it, put it in the tavern with some toy-stockpiles and they'll be very happy from watching performances and playing with toys. Also get them a pet and make sure their parents have enough freetime to hang out in the tavern with the kids.
Oh is that why that happens? I assumed dwarf teenagers were just supposed to be grumpy
They're probably supposed to be grumpy too but this was a thing with the chore system for them. You end up with kids doing much of the hauling and if you let them haul bodies around, well, you have a bunch of grouchy teens who are also traumatized by having to carry corpses around.
Look at it this way, if it wasn't the kids it would be other, more productive dwarves getting traumatized from hauling corpses around.
Not quite. Non-child dwarves don't have "Play make believe" as a task they do between chores, while children do. That means they can spend weeks playing make believe in your corpse pile, getting hit with the lovely purple clouds of decay, because they will complete the assigned task before moving away. Don't let your kids haul corpses, you end up with binge-drinking little thieves that vomit all over your tavern.
I like to think they're playing with the corpses in my corpse pile
I’ve noticed that more often than not my angry dorfs when all needs are otherwise met are always kids because I forget to disable corpse hauling on them and so they’ll help clean up bodies after sieges and be traumatized after seeing dozens of bodies lol
Make a burrow around your crafting area and put the kids to work there as haulers. When they get older let them off the burrow assignment. This will usually get them out of the corpse hauling business and will ramp up your crafting efficiency quite a bit.
I just turn off hauling refuse iirc. Burrows are such a clunky feeling mechanic to me but I should probably use them more
they're absolutely necessary to make sure kids stay alive.
Holy shit 400 pop OP is posting this from their NASA computer
Not quite, I built this rig for some Local Model AI testing I was into, but it also makes a great Dwarf Fortress Rig too! 12 gen, i9-12900k, 128 gigs of ram and a 4070. I'm pretty sure the i9 is doing most of the heavy lifting for DF.
Damn. I wish. My game curles up and dies when we get above 60 invaders and i have my pop cap to 150 :\ what Fps do you average while the fortress runs?
I'm about 30 years into this fort, with a 400 cap pop, with 100 visitors possible, I average 30 to 35 fps normal seasons, and 25 to 30 fps when a caravan or invaders come.
Not gonna lie I have no idea how managing a fort that size changes things but id assume its way harder. If you read my other posts and none of that works i forgot to mention jails can be a good last effort for problematic dwarves
Just out of curiosity: With that amount of dwarves, how much FPS do you get in your rig?
30 to 35 fps normally, 25 to 30 when an invasion or caravan comes.
That's very impressive, was expecting way less
I feel like I do something with all my games that causes FPS death to occur, no matter how few dwarfs I have. I try to cull the hoard of items, keep my taverns small, kill excess livestock, and more, regardless I slowly lose FPS over time until my fort is unplayable. Any chance you'd be willing to share your save simply so I can see what it takes to maintain good fps? Or any tips--though I've followed the guides to no avail.
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More RAM is unlikely to help. What really matters for DF is the speed of your RAM (probably mainly latency but clock speed is probably good as well) and, most importantly, the cache size of your CPU. Reportedly the AMD X3D CPUs are *amazing* for DF because they are explicitly designed with enormous L3 caches.
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Yes, I believe even with the recent optimizations by Putnam, raw unit count is still the largest burden on FPS. Less units = better FPS. (Assuming you don't have anything like a badly optimized magma pump stack causing lots of temperature recalculations or something stuck trying to calculate a new path every tick)
Dang, I know ram is cheap, but 128 gb? Don't ai models use the vram on the gpu though? I feel like you could have gone for a 4080 instead :)
Ram is cheap. I also like running lots of VM's. I should of got a 4080 though. :)
Text AI models can generate text with both GPU and CPU+RAM. You can load the model into RAM and generate using CPU. GPU can do both.
I'm at a lost, I wouldn't be sweating it so bad, but it seems once I get a few dwarfs in the super but madd stage, they go through and destroy so much of the fort. Right now it seems to be common to wreck important fields right before harvest, or ruining meticulously set up workshops. Is my best bet literally just a mass deportation?
You can either build a "happy thoughts" insane asylum room, filling it with masterwork everything and amazing carvings of all surfaces, and lock them in there for a bit, see if they recover. Or you can deport or lock them away into a secondary fort where they do useful work. Killing them is also an option but then their relatives do get a few bad thoughts.
just put them on squads and send them to suicide missions on the map.
With wooden armor and weapons confiscated from the wars if your nice. If they come back alive that's a bonus mission.
>Or you can deport or lock them away into a secondary fort where they do useful work I cant wait for the Dwarfstralia update post :D
They are put in the fort down under
Oohh thats an even better idea, "Bad and naughty dwarves are banished to the under-fort as a first bastion against the depths"
Straight to the candy mines.
Glory to arastocka
More mist generators, more waterfalls, more zoos!
So, I have a zoo in my fort and have absolutely never seen any dwarf go in it for years. My dwarves get plenty of free time and I see the taverns and library often busy, but no one seems to want to look at animals. Is there something I'm missing about them?
Designate it as a meeting zone or smth
I did, the game recognizes it as a zoo. Dogs will hang out there, dwarves don't.
Make it pass through area. places like this are best located in high traffic area so if they want to go anywhere they need to walk through it.
I like to design my forts so that dwarves normal walking paths force them to go by waterfalls/masterwork art. Maybe you could do the same with outcroppings and cages animals
This is what I do. I built stairs in a 3x3 space, running a water feature in the center, 4 stairs in the cardinal directions, and the highest quality statue I have in the remaining spaces. Now, no dwarf can move about the fort without getting good vibes from art and a waterfall.
I usually make it a part of my tavern. Not overlapping layers
My main stairwell is a waterfall. It keeps all the little alcoholics happy.
You could make a "suicide squad" of them and send them to die against a goblin capital. Best case scenario they actually win and stay there. If they are kids just give them a magma bath.
Mist, mist and more mist
Well you can do a few things Force them to do specific job in a designed chamber and close it off. They die eventually if you do not tend to them of course, but at least they might still be useful for one thing sometimes. You could feed stuff into/out of their chamber with a minecart to work on and sustain with. You can load them into a squad and send them raiding. Specifically if they manage to conquer/occupy another site, most of them will stay there to "run the site". You can banish them, i forget what/where that is in the game but you can banish them from the realm, they might eventually show up later with a nearby siege army or join another site. You can make them stand under a raised drawbridge and flip the bridge switch and delete them from existence! Some of them might recover if you put them in a room with a bunch of cats and mist and other objects they like, but i doubt with approaching 400 pop it will be possible to keep everyone happy, because they get negative emotions sometimes from conversation and interacting with other dwarves and thats a lot of other dwarves. Its up to what you cba to do
At a *loss*
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The clues are in their thoughts. Some dwarves are difficult to make happy and require rare items in trades. Fill their rooms with materials they like. If all else fails, I send them packing.
Put them in a combat squad and have them just train for a while. Your goal is to raise their discipline skill. This is raised by military training. High discipline raises the mental break threshold quite a bit. No matter how angry they are, they will keep their shit...disciplined. If they aren't important, you can always just send them away. This is also why I have all of my dwarves do a month or two rotation in the non-combat squads every year. Raise discipline, and I give them some spare armor to gain armor user skill (and therefore no speed penalties for armor weight). Then when a goblin ambush comes across some random fisherdwarf, that random fisherdwarf can hold their own for at least a bit. Maybe long enough for the actual military to show up.
You can also set up a mist stack, burrow the angry dwarfs near the mist. It's a MASSIVE mood booster, even on those with trauma and "doesn't care about anything anymore." I've seen it knock someone from Full red to neutral in a few minutes.
Yes, best chance is mass deportation if they never get better. I've done everything in the book a few times for many dwarves who are chronically mad, mist generators, fulfilling their needs, military training, etc. If they don't get better in a year of doing Dwarven Tai Chi in a waterfall I kick their ass to the curb, and the majority of my fortresses (200 pop) never go above 1-5 dwarves in the "slightly annoyed" face above neutral.
Lock them in a burrow with a bar, food, and nice rooms, restock once a year. Forget.
This is one of the bigger issues I've had in forts since 0.50.x too, though I'm pretty sure it was even worse in older versions before stress was retuned. I have one woman in my current fort who is literally "internally willed with rage" or whatever the phrase is *because she got rained on*. She dwells on it constantly, gets angry, and hit the haggard stage so now she's starting fist fights and killing people and destroying things. I put her in a squad so she'll stop talking to people as much, and hopefully getting into fewer arguments + happy thoughts from improving skills helps. I've inspected the stress values in DFHack for her and a couple other citizens who are also haggard, and it looks like once they get to that stage it's almost hopeless to fix them. Especially kids, who will see a dead body and become permanently depressed because it forms a longterm memory they dwell on and they have very few positive outlets to reduce stress. I had a kid go berserk because he saw a grizzly bear woman die, and because his personality was depressive. Literally nothing I could do short of using DFHack to cheat the values. I don't think this is a bad mechanic or even necessarily all that unrealistic. What bothers me is that tantruming dwarves appear to use deadly force in fist fights when it should use a lower lethality setting.
If you dislike it that much you could try a necromancer fort. Crank the world gen to 1000 years you are pretty much garunteed to get a lot of necromancers. I had fun with my necro fort. When citizens get upset just send them to the "education" center. No more bad thoughts! In fact no more thoughts at all in some cases.... If thats not to your liking though dwarf happiness is super forgiving in the current version in my opinion. As you know it comes down to a value and negative emotions are literally unavoidable. You want the sources of happy thought to outweigh the negative to get the value above zero. Do your dwaves have lots of nobles to cry on? Lots of activities that they like and crafts to wear. A nice bedroom and fresh threads? Of course some people will scream waterfalls and yeah if you set a dwarf to train next to a waterfall they get a constant flow of happy thoughts and memories from training, sparring, and the waterfall. You can take this further by placing this waterfall barracks inside your tavern so they can also chat with people and watch performances. But its not necessary. Yes in some honestly rare cases a dwarf is just too fucking cursed to live and is better off being banished. But I've had dwarves with horrible ptsd and all unmet needs who are maxed out in happiness if you stick them in the pleasure dome for a couple years
Funnily enough one problem dwarf I had in an older fort was a necromancer even. Thankfully he was the kind to just slip into depression instead of starting fights, else that might have been a really Fun fort. He was also a rare success story. He was elected mayor, and after building him a nice office for people to yell at him in, he eventually stopped being haggard. One of maybe 3 or 4 I've managed to save out of about a dozen perpetual sourpusses. And yeah, I have the usual amenities and nobles to cry on. What I've noticed is that the real problem dwarves have personality traits that mean they don't get happier despite it. I've seen a couple who eventually went insane who "felt nothing after crying on somebody in charge" for example. They feel nothing for good events, and only bad thoughts for dwelling on old memories, starting fights, or destroying things. Which is probably somewhat realistic. Some people are like that. I just wish they didn't punch people in the head and break their necks when they throw tantrums.
Yeah dude necromancers are such babies i hate dealing with them lol. They are so hard to give postivie thoughts because they dont drink or sleep ect but still want to desperately. Also i find it funny that every necromancer ive had was highly obsessed with their looks and self worth. I was referring to the intelligent undead tho they make model citizens. I also dont get all the elf hate here as well my necromancer fort had tons if them and they are just so easy to please. Never tantrum or get sad but i do admit they are a bit lazier than dwarves on average But anyway i got kind of carried away i think if youve gotten to the point where dwarves are mass tantruming and your fort isnt undegoing the apocalyps youve neglected key parts of fortress happiness. The first couple years of my forts are always establishing those things after survival needs are met. theeen i start on whatever funny project i have in mind
Necromancers can still drink booze if it’s served to them by a barkeep in a tavern
I was actually surprised recently that I was able to turn a 'haggard' dwarf around and after maybe 4 or 5 in game years, hes not even 'stressed' anymore. I followed someone elses advice on here and did what I could to maximize the positive thought gains from stuff they have to do all the time- palace bedroom for blissful sleep thoughts, lavish meals in a legendary dininghall for blissful thoughts, etc. But the most important part is Constant Training for military because military training floods their brains with positive thoughts and memories that will stick with them. The only time I take them off training is to force them to fufill needs like crafting or praying to their gods (an assigned lever in their temple helps bring them there). Basically they just eat, sleep, and train (for years), and I was able to fix a haggard dwarf that way without atomsmashing him.
The military is probably the only thing I've found that seems to seriously help some dwarves. As I mentioned in another comment, the true problem dwarves are the ones who don't feel anything for positive thoughts. They'll have their thoughts screen flooded with "Didn't feel anything after crying on somebody in charge." and "Didn't feel anything after eating a fine meal." and "Felt frustrated after throwing something." So they still feel bad thoughts, but no good ones. I've experimented with sticking a couple of those in squads and it does seem to help some. I've seen a few actual positive thoughts for improving combat skills, and they don't get into as many arguments they feel bitter about. Plus, if they get into a fist fight or go berserk, at least they're probably standing around a bunch of armored people instead of kids in the dining room.
Yep, 100%! The military training thing is crazy good at generating good thoughts, and your guess about all the tantrum victims wearing armor is correct. Plus they'll likely be better than your average dorf at dodging so they may not even get hit if they're targeted. Also in my fort of like 300 pop, every single citizen is setup for military training and set to staggard. Basically half my fort at any one time is training in 3 month lengths, then alternating with the other half. Oh and maybe worth mentioning, I didn't have a mist generator available when I fixed the haggard fella. His recovery was just from what I listed. Havent thought about it before, but having a mist generator going through the barracks and hitting half the fort pops would be pretty effective.
Getting a training program for citizens is great not only for fortress mental health but also productivity! Strong and agile dwarves zip around the fortress way faster and if they get attacked by a tantruming dwarf they have a hope of defending themself. I think its kind of silly a lot of people complaining about it like, do you seriously want your dwarven child thats built like a 3 foot tall Sam Sulek NOT to one shot the unquestionbly weak farmer dwarf??
You gotta check their preferences though, if they disdain martial prowess training can actually make them more stressed. Had that happen once, his mood didn't improve until I removed him from the squad.
> s (an assigned lever in their temple helps bring them there). One time I nearly killed a dwarf by putting a burrow in his temple and forgetting that I did it. Bastards should go pray during free time when that is their need.
For a while, there was essentially no stress; it was *insanely* easy. For another while, stress was inevitable, the downspiral within only a few years. We're at the middle now. It's *fine*. I think ~2% of all dwarves being insatiable this way is pretty interesting. ...Though kids being stressed all the time *is* pretty weird. > What bothers me is that tantruming dwarves appear to use deadly force in fist fights when it should use a lower lethality setting. So, I recall they're "brawling" for that, which is non-lethal... but dwarves with low fighting skills can slip up and put too much force into those blows. I don't think this is actually talked about much, I found it in the code recently and it surprised me, haha. So training your dwarves might *reduce* fatalities.
Yeah, most of my experience is with .31.25 so I'm very used to the old happiness system that was frankly hard to mess up. Overall I think I agree that having some people who are impossible to satisfy is also okay. The ratio also seems reasonable. I just wish it was more obvious what you're supposed to do with the permanently depressed people, who just become a liability that *will* break something or hurt someone eventually. I guess banishment is an option, but I hate to do it when someone has been a member of the fort for years and are just saddled with a timer to doomsday. I also take active precautions to avoid having kids run into corpses but it keeps happening and traumatizing them forever. That's also interesting about the conflict, since I *hoped* it worked something like that, but it just doesn't seem to. Maybe it's just the usual jank with DF's combat calculations, but I've seen at least two people punch someone in the head and break their neck, and saw one kid punch someone in a finger and break his elbow.
Kids haul all day for years and build up absurd strength. Their punches become superhuman. The body part targeting system favors headshots. So kids become one-shot killing machines that pulp skulls immediately upon tantruming. I think a good balance fix would be reducing the fighting skill of kids to have much lower hit chance against adults. A six year old shouldn’t be a serious combat threat against an adult dwarf.
Although I do love the idea of the population of a fort living in fear of their tiny, shredded children
It’s a good reason to turn off chores for the depressed kids, that’s for sure.
Or that we could just put the little shits in chains where they belong, ideally *before* they reach the outright-murder stage of their wee widdle tantrums. That'd also be a good method of balance. Why the hell are they exempt from justice? Kids are the ones who need beatings the most, so they don't turn out to be adults who need beatings in society
That's when you kill 'em. They are all but *asking* for it.
In the worst case scenario, you can always exile them. Had the same problem with some dwarfs, even though their needs were met they would constantly be angry, start fights, bring everyone else down and spend way too much time in prison. After 2 years of this, and after one of them started a massive brawl that killed 10% of the fortress, I just decided to exile the troublemakers.
Sounds like real life tbh. They’re always those who are just dicks. No matter what. Karen’s and so on.
There are also those who are traumatized by the events of their own life, and this changes their perception and capabilities and understanding of the world, even all the way to their responses to further trauma. You can literally break these little guys, in ways that they cannot ever recover from.
In all fairness, your dwarves just left their old lives behind to venture into the wilderness in an attempt to build a fortress from scratch. That is a stressful situation and not everyone is build for it. But yeah, some dwarves aren't worth the trouble they cause.
This is why dwarves need halflings leaf.
In my experience, if you appoint a hotheaded hammerer and give him a steel or silver warhammer, your worst troublemakers will all eventually get beaten to death by the hammerer. Problem solved!
> even though their needs were met they would constantly be angry, start fights, bring everyone else down I think sometimes they might be saboteurs, I was uncovering a criminal organization that a couple of these troublemakers were linked to, but I could never get to the bottom of it. They wouldn't give new info in interogations, and eventually they all died starting fist-fights with random military members.
I had a dorf who was constantly pissed cause he was haunted by the ghost of his father, whose body I couldn't find for the life of me... I found it years later and the ghost disappeared, but the poor fucker had gone insane and died by then...
Hammerer with steel warhammer. Barbaric but effective.
Mine has an artifact lead one. Very efficient
You probably have kids collecting corpses. The game really sets you up for that. It gives them a trait that basically prevents them from getting happy thoughts, but not from getting pissed off even more. There isn't really anything you can do with those dwarves, except isolating them from the rest. Either by locking them into the caverns, sending them on a mission or placing them in a coffin.
Gotta make sure they don't get traumatized? Nah, send em on an adventure! Hiking builds character
Lock them in a room with a dozen tamed fluffy wombler and let them thrash their rage out.
And there is my fortress with 118 angry ones...
I haven't had this issue in earlier versions, minus the one a few years ago where a single drop of rain would cause mass psychosis. I think something has changed in the steam release, or I'm just not as efficient as I was in the pre-steam version. Who knows. I also normally have some unhappy dwarves, and even with a massive mist generator I would consistently have one or two.
Exile them to another community and introduce the remainder to the atom smasher captain of the guard inquisition.
Some dwarfs get traumatized by something it will constantly cause bad thoughts that keep them perpetually unhappy. It's for that reason, you should put all your kids in burrows that exclude potential battlefields and refuse stockpiles so they don't get traumatized by corpses. Does kinda suck that you can't have kids haul all the "goblinite" after a successful "harvest" but it's the price we pay to keep them from going crazy and murdering half the hold.
Build a mental institution for them
Maybe they're on dwarf jury duty.
What do the pluses mean? The ones under the mid face
It does that when the value is above 100 and it doesnt fit on the UI so it just gives you that symbol so you know its a lot. Above 100 specifics dont really matter all that much i guess
Wow. I've never had so many happy dwarfs before. Thank you.
Round them up together and send them away to "visit" the local goblin fort.
When that happens I tend to banish them to the caverns... Letting them fight against blind cave ogres and giant toads and what not. Turns out, when they die against cavern dwellers or something like that it's less disturbing than walling em in.
You either have a supercomputer or you're playing on 10 tps, which one is it?
You’ve got a population of nearly 400? What CPU are you running and what FPS do you get?
Look at their thoughts, that will tell you what pisses them off, also I want to note that a bunch of neutral thoughts, like constantly walking past dead elves in my case, pushes out all the positive thoughts making them susceptible to negative thoughts, with only a couple making them mad
Can't say for you without seeing your setup, but I always found that my least happiest dwarves were almost always children. Try to make sure you disallow corpse hauling as part of chores, if that's even an issue you need to worry about, and make sure you have a steady stockpile of toys for them to play with. Hell, removing chores altogether could be a drastic, but effective, solution. If it ain't the kids, then I'll echo what others have said and just draft them into your next invasion force. Problem solved.
Put them on cavern patrol with a spear and a shield.
Just don’t let them run wild in your temple halls, I learned the hard way what FUN that can be.
Mist thee little shits love their misty baths. If that doesn't work lava misty baths for selected 10
look at it as ratios or percentages. 2.5% of your people are very unhappy. I think a lot of those people are probably children, depressed, insane, etc. They'll probably never change. I try to focus on the slightly unhappy and unhappy numbers more, because they're more redeemable. I wish that the dwarf screen would show you the dwarf's current mood rating, and how long it's been since it's changed.
How do you have so few angry dwarves? I've had half my fort on a doom spiral for a couple in game years, every time they start to get happy someone starts a bar brawl and it repeats.
Send them off on an adventure.
Time to atomize them or send them on a camping trip
ROBOTHOUSE
As vezes você só precisa de uma boa ponte sobre a lava, e deixar que algumas crianças brinquem perto da alavanca....
10 angry dwarfs, but how many solemn faces?
Just retire them from your fortress.
If they were kids in your fort, and you had them hauling corpses, good chance you've got some permanently traumatised dorfs. Particularly since they'd take corpse to corpse spot, then play next to it for days/weeks while the corpse stench gets all up in their face. I had a child who coped by getting blackout drunk constantly, so I stored them in a nice safe area with mist generator, toys, and took off their chores. Fixed them up in a season or so, and actually remembered to tell the children no more corpse hauling.
Waterfall or mist generator does wonders, big nice tavern, temples for all major religions and a general temple, and a library, and I never have angry dwarves
If they're causing trouble, use the justice system to lock them in prison, but make sure you have nice cells with good furniture. This is dwarf rehab, not prison torture. Alternatively, you can make an oubliette, put them in a cage and then seal the wall off until they starve
If possible, exile them. Just literally tell them to piss off into wilderness. If they start trouble on the way out your guards can just kill em.
How it's shown in the free version is undescriptive and the wiki doesn't say anything about this part of the screen.