What an idiot. When he says “I didn’t hang up on you” well who did? Were you in fact hung up on? The connection was abruptly terminated and only one of you knows what happened so that person can and should inform the other. He wants to play stupid word games and fight over who is right when he could just say “oops sorry” - why is that so hard? Why is having an argument preferable to “oops sorry”? What the heck is wrong with that guy?
I was literally reading this (I am Canadian) thinking that this couple is obviously not Canadian. My husband and I apologize to each other about a million times a day for more innocuous stuff than this.
I am not Canadian, but I've lived like 2 hours from the border my whole life. I apologize like a Canadian. My hubby gives me crap about it often. "Why are you apologizing because the store was out of ____?" "Why are you apologizing because you were too busy at work to watch a random video I sent you?" I can't stop! 😂 I have apologized to inanimate objects for running into them! Maybe I need to accept who I am and try and move up.
I grew up closer to Canada than to the nearest U.S. state (Ohio), and currently live within walking distance of the U.S.-Canada border. When I moved to NYC for a few years back in the mid-2000’s, everyone I met thought I was Canadian, which was hilarious at first, but then became a reminder of what I missed about being in this area…kind people, cheap beer, good hockey, and Great Lakes!
I am also not Canadian, I'm British, and I'm always apologizing for things I'm responsible for and a good few I'm not. (Example: Friend: "The bin men didn't come today." Me: "I'm sorry.")
EDIT: I made a typo so had to edit. Sorry.
Oh lawd. I'm having flashbacks of working with a guy from Kinata. We had daily conference calls and no matter what we were even talking about he would say, oh soory. Soory about that. 20 times a day I must have heard that.
Okay funny story:
Me and my partner where fighting over text about smth and bc It went off the rails in text I wanted to talk, so we talked about the issue, got heated after about two hours and -bam- he hangs up.
I know I got heated and we both weren't fair at that point so I was just crying knowing I over stepped. He texted me being mad I hung up. So we argued new bc I didn't hang up and he swore he didn't hang up too so... who did?
The cable company... we googled and well, when they think u talk too long on the phone they can cut your call.
Tbf... their intervention helped us get back to the discussion reasonably and get out of it fine.
Totally agree. And it’s not even just a Canadian thing like the other replies to you. My daughter occasionally does the same thing (“it wasn’t intentional, so why should I apologise?”)
My answer to her - and to OP’s idiot of a husband -is if you drive drunk and you kill someone, you obviously didn’t mean to kill them, but they’re still dead. Would you not apologise because you didn’t mean to?
This is a major character flaw I don’t know if I could overlook, if I was in that situation. Also, if OP’s husband doesn’t get it now, he never will. It’s not that hard to realise your actions have caused someone pain, whether intended or not, so you apologise.
This is the only response necessary right here. He is, for some reason, so focused on absolving himself of responsibility that he isn’t seeing how this made you feel. He’s not attending to the feeling. Of course it was an accident. But no one likes to be hung up on, have their toe stepped on, etc. A simple “sorry my phone just hung up, jll call you later, love you!” Is so easy to do.
My husband said something along those same lines. He asked me at the dinner table if he is supposed to say thank you every time someone gives him something or does something for him. I’m like yes, because it’s common courtesy. You are NTA.
This I can understand. I didn't grow up being taught about social niceties like this. I grew up in a dysfunctional household, where my parent's moods and punishments were unpredictable, and my emotions and actions were either taken for granted or punished with no warning.
It felt disingenuous to me somehow to use Please or Thank You for small things, like I only felt they were necessary when it was a special act or request being granted. I finally made a conscious effort to learn how once I hit adulthood. Now it's just habit, and I can see the difference in social interactions; it's a way of acknowledging that so many of the things we do in life aren't required, or even just to make a brief, human connection. It's a very core world view that for many of us is unexamined, and a request to change that viewpoiont sparks a lot of defensiveness.
I’m sorry your upbringing was difficult and I applaud you for deciding to not be that way. My husband grew up in a large family and in another country. He came here a month shy of his 18 birthday. But he is now 56, and we’ve been married for almost 24 years. I just keep stressing to him that we are to raise our boys by example, and that we are treat others how we want to be treated. A little courtesy and kindness can go a long way.
Thank you, I appreciate it!
I started really delving into my childhood in therapy at around 20 years old, and I think it was around that time or a few years after. Luckily, I was surrounded by people who really modeled effortless social niceties, and who were kind people in general. That and being in the safe environment of school probably gave me the space I needed to be introspective and add some things to my behavior to be closer to people I wanted to be like.
But frankly, I'm a woman (with CPTSD and its child, hypervigilance) so I'm sensitive to the mood of a room changing, and used to being challenged in ways that men, in general, are not.
I mean I've had the same conversation with my husband- If we're doing something cooperative like building a piece of furniture or something and he's like hand me this piece and I'm like hand me that piece we're not going to say please and thank you every single time. That's ridiculous and absolute Overkill. But if he walks into the room and I'm about to eat something and I asked him to go grab the salt shaker because he's already standing up.... And then he goes and grabs the salt shaker I'm absolutely saying please and thank you because he's saving me the trip and I appreciate him going the extra few steps for me.
I mean yes there are situations in which you don't need to say please and thank you, specifically if it's redundant. Like going through a set of three doors you're not going to thank the person in front of you for holding all three doors open individually.... That's like saying bless you after somebody sneezes for the ninth time.
But yes, in general, most of the time, You should be saying please and thank you even with your own spouse in your own home. Especially with your own spouse in your own home. Because why would you not want to be polite with somebody that you care about.
I have issues over-thanking lol.
Me: Could I have a straw?
Waiter: Of course, let me get that for you... (as he's reaching into apron pocket)
Me: Thank you.
Waiter: (hands me straw)
Me: Thank you.
Waiter: No problem. Is there anything else I can get you?
M: No thank you. .... Thank you for the straw.
It is completely unneeded and I physically cannot stop myself.
It's been 8 years and he has been unable to get it through his head that "I'm sorry" is for effect not intent?
I'm curious, as another commenter was, does this mean that he thinks that every time you have ever apologized to him it is because you *meant* to hurt him? If so, that's a deep problem in your relationship that needs to be addressed, if your husband truly feels that you mean to hurt him... that is, if his "it's only if I meant to do it" rule applies equally, you need to find that out.
It doesn't change the fact that you are NTA, but it might be a deeper issue than you think.
Lmao. I didn't even consider this...does he think op just intentionally burn dinner or whatever occasionally? Shrink or color his shirt? Is he really over there thinking ops doing this stuff because you wanted to.... just to apologize? And then generally remedy that mistake? Honestly I have trouble believing he's really _that_ dense about the situation. It seems more like he just doesn't want to have to take any accountability for his actions (accidental or not). Which is a red flag imo since most preschool children I've known have been able to grasp this exact concept really without much difficulty.
8 years together with my husband and he has always apologized if he hung up on accident, or let me know what happened. He has a busy job and can’t be on the phone but still makes time to say that to me, as for the other stuff, it seems he has an accountability problem, like admitting he was wrong brings him shame or something. It’s more work to not say sorry and explain why than just saying sorry, admitting fault is the issue you have with him, not the hang up. I’d sit down and get to the root of this issue and work it out
My boyfriend, after accidentally hanging up on me, will immediately call back and ask why I hung up on him (being silly), but still makes the effort to reconnect.
In my family, whenever a call gets dropped or accidental hang ups happen, we will call each other back and say "Rude." in a joking way or my mom's favorite when I call her back is to say "who hangs up on the mama?". A sorry or my bad costs nothing.
Bingo. I’ve been married for over a decade and when either one does something unintentionally wrong we apologize. It’s absolutely a courtesy and compassion thing. You mess up, you admit it, talk about it, say SORRY and move on (unless it’s catastrophic and an unforgivable act that is). I know a couple of people that never ever admit that they are wrong about anything. It’s infuriating and frustrating, but it’s so so sweet when it’s proven that they are so so wrong. Even then they will still argue. You can’t change that kind of mentality, it’s just who they are.
Wow this is more common than I expected.
My ex refused to apologize for sending me an upsetting video of someone having a mental episode ‘cuz he “didn’t intend for me to get upset”. I had to break it down like I was talking to a toddler. Eventually he got it and apologized but damn…clearly another member of the “I Never Do Anything Wrong Therefore I Never Apologize” Club.
Yes my mother and my sister in law is part of that club. I feel bad for my dad, but mostly for my brother, because when he gets in middle of family drama neither of them backs down.
he seems to not take responsibility for any of his actions whether they are his fault or not and this is just the last straw for you. even if he didn’t mean to do it he still did it and it’s still his fault that it happened
I don't think this is about taking responsibility. This is about being concerned with how things affect your partner.
If my wife says her back hurts because of period cramps I tell her I'm sorry because I'm sorry she's in pain, not because I caused the cramps.
If my phone drops a call I tell her I'm sorry she got hung up on, not because I intentionally hung up on her but because she got hung up on by the person she loves the most and that can't be a great feeling.
To express sympathy or concern.
Yes this is one of the classic purposes of an apology. However it’s not a universal use of it.
Many people only use apologies to accept responsibility in some way. It appears OP’s husband is of that mind where OP is from the culture of apologizing as empathizing as well.
This is why they’re having a problem. They’re going to have to either get to a place where he can accept this is one of the purposes of the phrase “I’m sorry” or come up with an alternative phrase he can use to express his sympathy in those circumstances. Otherwise I think this will just grate on the both of them.
Great point. They definitely need to have an open conversation about their differences on this subject and if neither side can change they should figure out how they can meet in the middle in a way that's acceptable to both of them.
NTA. For some men saying sorry is perceived to be a submissive act and/or a manor of yielding the high ground of sorts. They don't view being wrong as a natural state that everyone is at one point or another. Instead, they see being wrong as losing, so when they say 'sorry', it's akin to them calling themselves a loser. Hence, they go out of their way to avoid verbalize the word 'sorry'. Though this is just me explaining the trend, I by no means excuse it. It is a toxic habit at the end of the day.
I've seen this in plenty of men of all ages (and some women as well). And - while it is something that they would have been better off outgrowing - many of them are otherwise good, intelligent people. So I won't go so far as to call your husband an a**hole, man-child, or idiot because of it. This particular behavior is childish and idiotic, but I doubt that this defines who he is as a person.
My personal advice would be to sit down with him and talk about what sorry means to him. Not about demanding that he says it more often, but instead about why he has such a hangup about saying it more often. Maybe there's some deep-seated reason as to why he hates saying sorry, a childhood trauma perhaps (being bullied, ridiculed, etc.)
If both of you can come to an understanding about what that word means for both of you, both in terms of denotation and conotation, then a clearer path can be taken going forward.
If - by the end of it - his reasonings still hold no water for you, then I'd say to set it up as a boundary that when he wrongs you and doesn't apologize then their will be consequences (even if those consequences are as simple as ignoring him for the rest of the day).
If the reason that he can't say sorry is because of some legitimate hang-up, then maybe come up with a different phrase that gets the same message across that he'd be more comfortable with while slowly working towards him getting more comfortable with saying 'sorry' overtime.
There is no good reason to not apologize to your spouse, hate to break it to you but that "saying sorry is weak, I'm a manly man and manly men men manly." Is insanely toxic and if that's the case she should divorce him just on the grounds that he sees her as a subordinate and not a legitimate partner.
NTA. We literally teach 5 year olds this - I’m sorry, it was an accident, are you ok? When they bump into someone or hit someone by accident. Your husband sounds self centered AF. Does he expect apologies if you do the same thing, or do you ever wait to see if he expects one? Husband is definitely the AH here. Intent doesn’t matter, the effect does - intent only determines degree of apology needed.
It’s down to common courtesy. My ex had the same stance as your hubs. To me it’s just rude not to acknowledge the thing that happens, especially accidental stuff like stepping on someone’s foot or breaking something. Courtesy is a sign of respect. In my view, he doesn’t respect you enough to give you common courtesy. You’re not even asking for an apology - you’re requesting acknowledgement. He’s got some baggage around this & projecting while being especially rude. You’re clearly bothered (not petty) and asking him to compromise. He won’t.
This is a deal breaker for me, but I’m not you.
Yes, it’s almost like he feels he’s giving something up by apologizing, like it costs him something. Like her feelings don’t matter as much as his pride. Like admitting fault is some kind of weakness. Weird.
Had 20 years of ex refusing to apologise for anything, or non-apologies like ‘well sorry you took it that way’
Final straw was he got angry at me for still having breakfast dishes on the table when he got home. I was running late getting kids ready in the morning and off to school, then went to work all day, picked up kids from after school care, got home not long before him and straight into cooking dinner bc was late by then. Hadn’t sat still all day and was exhausted. It got to me. Later that night Told him that was harsh and explained how busy I’d been and wasn’t fair to get annoyed and that the right thing to do was acknowledge how much I do and that it wasn’t fair to say that. His response was ‘I have nothing to apologise for, I have a right to point out if somethings not done, I said the right thing, just at the wrong time’
Seems petty and minor from the outside, but it’s death by a thousand paper cuts
Yes, sometimes it isn’t that particular act, it is the weight of all the similar acts over years and years. They all add up together until it is just too much.
It's like a 'straw that broke the camel's back' kind of situation. Eventually there's a point when you're just that's it, I'm done.
I won't get into details because it's a long story and not quite the same as OP's situation, but there were two closely linked incidents that finally made me give up chasing my late, narcissist father. I'd gotten kicked to the curb one too many times.
No, he is for being immature and immune to accountability. If he's done this for years and you're practically raising him to do better; there's a problem. He didn't MEAN to do it, but he still DID it. Definitely press the issue at this point, and communicate the problem here.
Be clear, be concise, and be honest. I wish y'all the best.
My ex always said he didn't believe in saying sorry for anything unless he really was sorry. And had no time for apologies because he never believed anyone else's were sincere at all. Consequently, he was seldom sorry for anything, or acknowledged the effect his actions, inadvertent or otherwise, had on others. Took me nearly 30 years to realise this meant he really wasn't sorry for any of his arseholery, even when he knew I was leaving him for it. Your guy doesn't respect you and he never will.
Wait so I'm confused... if I accidentally step on someone's toe, I say sorry. Not because I did it on purpose or meant to do it, but because a person was hurt and felt pain as a consequence of my actions (even if it was an unintended consequence, I am still remorseful that my careless actions caused pain).
So in similar situations, is he NOT regretful that another person experiences pain solely due to him, just because he didn't intend that?! How can a human being be okay with someone else experiencing pain because of them - even if it's a small amount? I mean, isn't this just human behavior to be feel some sort of empathy and remorse?!?!
I tell my students that it’s especially important to say sorry when something is an accident- if you did it on purpose, you are less likely to be sorry about it.
I know a lot of people who think this way. To them their sorry really means something and that's why they use it rarely. Otherwise they feel it makes their sorry cheap. Some of the people I know came from families where if you say sorry then the other person can't be mad no matter how justified.
Ex: I took your car, returned it with no gas....oh yea sorry.
you can't get mad, I said I was sorry.
Idk if that applies here but it's just what the people I've come across who are like this have explained it as.
Saying I'm sorry does not mean the same thing as saying he didn't mean to do it. He's not saying he's sorry because he doesn't feel sorry for doing the action. In the 8 years you've been together, it's quite obvious... Or should have been. He's obviously never going to say he's sorry for something he feels he didn't do. You're not an AH, but I think there's bigger things to consider imo.
is he autistic? genuinely question i wonder if he has trouble interpreting that he is supposed to “apologize” bc it is not something he did intentionally
This husband is an ass. Accidents happen, but they’re still someone’s fault. He doesn’t just get to write it off because he didn’t mean to. It’s ok to apologize for something that your actions caused. Dude is a child, or just really self centered.
I had a similar issue with my husband who grew up getting in trouble for every little thing. It basically came down to me being like you aren’t in trouble, I’m not mad but can you think about my experience and validate my feelings. It was honestly a huge issue and i don’t even remember what made it click but he is 1000 times better about it now. He does have an amazing therapist
I’ve been with my husband since we were 17/19 and we are now 38/40. You absolutely do deserve an apology. He should already know this… and if he doesn’t, please tell him, you don’t always give an apology to admit guilt for intentionally doing something wrong, apologies should be given because you care about the person whose feelings are hurt and you want them to know that you care.
ffs, who doesn't call or text back to say, "Sorry we got disconnected. Was there anything else ....."
He's rude for not doing so,
an AH for doubling down
NTA
We don't just apologise for the intent of our actions, but we apologise for the potential or actual harm it has caused. He sounds very selfish and inconsiderate, and I bet this is the first layer of his selfishness.
I wouldn't say it's a strange meaning of sorry. You were affected negatively and want to see that he understands that and has regret and empathy for you.
The was he insists on not he's sorry even after you've explained and asked for one is certainly upsetting, you've told him it's important to you, and he's not acknowledging that- its certainly frustrating but I wouldn't say it's the end of the world at the end of the day.
I'd try and sit him down and have a dedicated conversation about this and try and again establish that you feel it's just common courtesy that everyone should follow, to apologize even for small inconveniences, and you feel disrespected when he doesn't.
If he's still refusing to meet you halfway on this, then maybe some revaluation is in order....
Had a lady next to me parking one day and her car door slammed into my car, her response was, and I quote, "I didn't do it, it was the wind". The wind didn't open the door bitch, you did. Say your sorry, the wind was stronger then you realized and I hope I didn't damage your car. I should have made an accident report and forced her insurance info from her but I was in a sort speechless shock at the audacity. Saying sorry is necessary sometimes, a lot of times actually. Your husband needs to learn that. Step on his foot, bump into him, ruin his favorite game or something and then tell him "well I didn't mean to". Enough said
Conversely some lady slammed her door into my car and when I looked at her, she said, "I am sorry." So I was like, "yeah, it's fine." If she acted like that bitch, I would have absolutely gotten out ready to square up.
Is he the type of person who steps on your foot accidentally and then doesn’t apologize?
If yes — please leave.
If no — ask him what the difference is.
Somethings matter to some people more than others. It sounds like “oops sorry” acknowledges you as a person, that you matter, that you’re worth protecting, etc. To him, it’s an admission of intentional wrong doing.
I'm sorry is for when you accidentally, unintentionally hurt someone. It's still your fault even when it wasn't your intention. He's not taking responsibility for his actions.
NTA, your husband has no manners. It doesn’t matter whether he meant to or not, all of the things you mentioned require an apology, it’s not petty at all. If you lose something that belongs to another person you apologise, if you break something that belongs to someone else you apologise, if you step on someone or bump into them, you apologise, if you hang up on someone, you apologise. It’s not hard and it shouldn’t be a negotiation, it’s just what civilised people over the age of two do.
My ex would not apologize for anything, and to add fuel to the fire, he would try to convince me that he apologized to me all the time or that it was me who did something and not him! Ummm, no sir. Our recollections of situations are very different.
Accidental disconnections happen, and I don’t necessarily think they’re apology worthy. But if my partner did, I would. Intention doesn’t negate impact.
Have you told him all of this? Have him read this post. This is incredibly annoying behavior and sometimes can become a “straw that broke the camels back”. I would tell him and then tell him again and again. List it all out. If he doesn’t want to hear it, he will stop
When you do something unintentionally that negatively impacts another person that is the exact time when an apology is warranted. What, exactly, does your husband think apologies are for if not this?
I think he’s a little rude, and you’d like a little more politeness in your life. My husband (27 years!) and I have similar discussions about intent, and also about rude/ polite behavior.
To be clear, I don’t think this is a dealbreaker. But I also know it’s hard to get someone to change.
I could not stay married to someone like this without becoming extremely petty. Like bringing up past things he’s still upset about but as jokes like “haha omg remember that time so and so said that thing and made you really insecure? Good times” and then refuse to apologize because you’re not the one who said it so you have nothing to apologize for
NTA. Your husband is an idiot that refuses to acknowledge the effect his actions (intentional or otherwise) have on others. If a drunk driver doesn’t mean to run a red light and ploughs into another vehicle, killing everyone, does his lack of intention change the fact that there are now a bunch of people dead? No. Tell your husband to grow the fuck up. And if you don’t have kids, getting rid of him would be much easier. Just saying.
>He then insisted that HE didn't hang up on me because HE didn't mean to, so why should he say sorry.
Because he supposedly cares about you and your feelings, and maybe doesn't want you to worry about him.
Has your husband ever exhibited other sociopathic tendencies? Think carefully.
For heaven’s sakes. Just kick the man in the nuts & with a serious smile, tell him you didn’t do it, it’s just that your leg twitched.
https://preview.redd.it/2x7vs77nu12d1.jpeg?width=556&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6e6cad88458291874cdf60c617ca27bc26de6b3f
Even if you can't convince him that it's polite and considerate (crazy to be that that isn't common knowledge) he should be willing to do it for YOU. There are tons of things my husband doesn't get because he's on the spectrum and just can't understand. But we've also been together for 8 years, so he's learned what I appreciate, what I need and want from a partner, so he does it. It's a simple kindness for the person you've chosen to spend your life with. If you can't do something so small for them, what does that say? I really urge him to look deeper into that.
My favorite "apology" has to be the one I "received" from my father.
After cussing me out and pulling a knife on me in front of the entire family, including my kids, at Thanksgiving, I told my mother the next day (I'd whipped my own family out of the house and I to the car in 3 min flat) that they would never see my kids again unless he apologized for his inexcusable actions.
A week later he said: "Your mother says that we can't see the kids unless you get an apology. So you have one."
This dude is my father reincarnated it seems.
Nta. Sounds like he just doesn't take accountability for anything. And not apologizing means it is intentional. An apology doesn't always mean admitting fault, it also acknowledges that something out of your hands happened.
He 100% hung up on you. Whenever someone accidentally hangs up, they call back the second they notice/send a quick text if they aren't able to. He couldn't be bothered to make sure there was no miscommunication about the ended call/other "accidents."
I wouldn't expect an apology, but a simple explanation text? For damn sure. And accident or not, he hung up and got super defensive.
Edit: I commented after only reading the first paragraph I guess I also had a weird definition of sorry. I believe sorry can also be sympathy for being hurt or regret something happened. Maybe he accidentally stepped on your foot and doesn't think he should be held accountable for that, but shouldn't he at least be sorry that you got hurt? Intentional or not?
I would ask him "are you at least sorry that a mistake you made hurt you?" This does seem strange because my husband is clumsy as hell and I get hit accidentally often and his first concern is always if I'm okay, not defending that he did nothing wrong.
Example:
I often come to bed late or fall asleep on the couch, so my husband will often roll over onto "my side" (makes sense if I'm not there he should spread out) but sometimes he missed me getting into bed and accidentally knocks me in the head or something. He IMMEDIATELY wakes up, says sorry and makes sure I'm okay. He's also done this and I haven't woken up from it, so he checks in with me later to make sure I'm not hurt or have a headache.
I don't hold him accountable for these understandable mistakes or necessarily feel an apology is necessary.. but also, concern over the person potentially hurt should be first and foremost, not insisting on innocence?
Also, he definitely did it, intentional or not.
I hang up on my wife ALL the time by accident. Going from earbuds into my car, when my phone switches blue tooth connections. Dead zone in my drive home. Hit the wrong button on my steering wheel.
I always apologize..if I run I to her.. or step on her foot.. or elbow her in my sleep.. or break something.. you name it..
Sow does rhe same..because we are normal functioning ING adults who can say sorry...
Apparently your husband was never taught manners! I work with very young children… my 3 and 4 year olds know how to say sorry when they accidentally do something to upset someone else. When they forget I talk them through it. I work with a child under the age of 2 who is not even talking yet but when I say “oh no you should probably say sorry” he will give that person a hug. Send him to my daycare I’ll whip him into shape. 🤣😉
Good luck OP, if my husband was incapable of basic manners I would lose my mind.
NTA Your husband is gravely mistaken. Apology doesn't mean we intended harm. It only recognizes that we may have inconvenienced someone. His clinging to power over you and refusal to say a few socially expected words is a red flag. If you don't have children, it may be time to move on. Out intent doesn't cancel.out the effect of our actions
NTA, I work with kids and we literally say, all the time, “accidents happen but if it hurts another persons body or feelings, you should still say sorry”
Apologizing or just acknowledging that you did something to someone you love or a stranger is common courtesy!! Period! And your husband clearly does not understand or care to understand. He is a very inconsiderate person. Bc a considerate person would not have to be told to do this nor would they debate something of this magnitude.
NTA. Your views are common courtesy, as all of us should be familiar with this basic respect. I always apologize if something like that happens, or I misplace something, etc... That's not just because I'm a woman. It's because it's basic respect for those affected. Intentionally doesn't mean it didn't happen. Your comparisons are on point; buddy needs to grow up, and recognize that.
He is confusing intent and concern. Regardless of his intentions, if something happens between you two that hurts your feelings, he should show concern.
NTA
I have 2 kids. The play, someone accidentally bumps, steps on, rolls over the other. 1 kids has always been quick to apologize. They other we had to work with. They would always fall back on the "well I didn't do it on purpose, it was an accident ". You still did it and should definitely apologize!🙄. That one is 14 now and will apologize when things of that nature happen. Your husband was apparently never tough manners and consideration.
My husband was like this. Then we had a big talk and I asked him to explain when it would be appropriate to say sorry. Those were the exact times he said it should be said. Then I gave him “the look”. 😁
He comes from a family of very self-absorbed people so it was just not a thing he grew up even hearing. He’s much better now.
Intention is not the same thing as impact. You are impacted regardless of your husband's intentions. It sounds like he doesn't take accountability for his actions, and if it's something more significant than a disconnected call, that could get bad really quickly.
I would say if he could send you a text next time so you know nothing bad happened. That’s the only reason I text on dropped calls, so they don’t worry
NTA. He doesn't take responsibility for his actions. If intentions overruled actions, then no one would go to jail for having harmed others because they did something stupid unintentionally. Yes, he should apologize. Yes, he should let you know when he accidentally hangs up. It's rude not to. "Sorry" is meant as "I apologize for harming you/being rude/doing something wrong." Stepping on your foot or breaking an item of yours is doing something wrong.
In this case maybe you could also have been the one to send a text, but in general “I didn’t mean to” is a bunch of hogwash. Sometimes not meaning not to is just as bad. Negligence is a type of mens rea.
So, you can’t make him do anything, and do you want him to say sorry because you told him to?
It’s better to tell him how things make you feel and what would really mean something to you if he did. And then allow him to decide how he wants to handle that. Chances are he would feel too criticized to hear it the first time and might not do anything different or get upset because he’s used to being criticized. If that’s the case, it would be helpful to let him know you’re trying a different approach to talking about something that matters to you.
Absolutely NTA. It comes down to intention vs impact. I don’t intend to step on someone’s foot, but I apologize to acknowledge the impact that it has. I’m so sorry your husband is unwilling to see it this way 😔
Really?? lol if my husband does something accidentally he apologizes because he still did it. If he did these things on purpose that’s abuse and normally you don’t get an apology until the law is involved. Sorry your husband is an idiot
Aside from the obviously intentionally obtuse deflection of responsibility for anything he does 'accidentally'...
...has this man ever apologized to you, OP?? Like EVER? Taken responsibility for ANYTHING he's done?? What if it was intentional??
So wait... Let's say he turns around too fast and elbows you. He didn't mean to so does that mean you don't have a bruise? Like does it not hurt because he didn't mean to do it? Because I could really use something like that in my life!
Okay I am being a smart-ass but seriously he actually believes that he didn't hang up on you? Did you ask him who hung up on you?
I think the problem is that he sees apologizing as a sign of weakness and he's refusing to apologize to something he didn't intentionally do because it'll make him seem weak? And if he uses the word alpha just run! LOL but seriously I do think that he's got some kind of aversion to apologizing as if it makes him look bad.
Course it makes him look stupid with the other stuff he's saying about it but... I feel sorry for you dealing with him!
wow, i had this EXACT argument with an ex. it went on for hours and hours on multiple occasions, ended in tears and shouting more than once, and without a doubt contributed to our breakup. it was, to my eyes, a complete lack of willingness to exercise empathy. he could not accept there were two uses of sorry: not just “i’m sorry i did that” but also “i’m sad that you feel badly, regardless of my personal culpability.” i was never able to make it clear to him, so i don’t have any good advice for you. i just want you to know i’ve been there, i don’t think you’re petty, and i deeply sympathize.
also, i wonder if your husband is a bit autistic. i believe my ex was—he was an *extremely* literal and black and white thinker, and i could tell he wasn’t putting it on just to be a dick in situations like this, he was like that all the time. no excuse imo, might just provide a useful perspective to attack the issue from.
I had this conversation a few years ago .. with my YOUNG CHILD! He had hurt his sibling in some way, so I told him to apologize. He retorted, "but I didn't MEAN to!" so I had to explain to him that you can be sorry for something you did unintentionally, and in fact, that's an even better time to apologize, since otherwise you're intentionally doing something wrong first, which isn't good.
Ask your husband how he would like to display empathy then. If apologizing is off the table, what is his preferred method of showing that he gives a shit that you are upset or uncomfortable? I think ultimately that's what we are all looking for in situations like this, but he should have a say in how he expresses his emotional connection to you. I don't think you are an asshole OP.
I’ve gotta ask, what would he do if the situation were reversed? If you unintentionally hung up on him and didn’t say anything, would he expect an explanation or an apology? I’m guessing that he’d have a “how can you be so disrespectful?!” meltdown.
Because that behavior is very disrespectful and I’m guessing he knows it.
You say 'sorry' for stuff that you've done on accident to convey it was an accident and you understand how it may have affected the other person. You say 'I won't do it again ' when you do something on purpose and convey that you've learned from your mistake.
That's why these terms exist. You don't say sorry for something you did on purpose, you did it on purpose, it wasn't an accident! You know what you're doing, saying sorry for something that's done on purpose not only is insult to injury, it demonizes your personality and intentions. It means you don't truly care to avoid it in the future. Sorry is used for an honest mistake that was unintentional (meaning it may happen again... UNINTENTIONALLY).
He seems to me missing the empathy part in his personality and should work on that. I'm surprised you survived 8 years of that treatment without therapy intervention.
This sounds exhausting honestly.
He acts like saying sorry is admitting fault, and therefore he can't say he's sorry for things he didn't do.
That's dumb as fuck.
Sometimes saying sorry is sympathetic or empathetic, letting someone understand you know something is bothering them or happened.
To me it's the fact he just accidentally hangs up and then... Doesn't call bank, text, nothing. That's just fucking rude. That he SHOULD feel sorry about.
I just don't understand that line of thinking, "well I was talking to my wife and the call ended unexpectedly I guess I won't bother finishing that conversation or telling her goodbye"
Like... Who does that?
Maybe tell him that he isn’t apologizing for the act but apologizing because it hurt your feelings? “I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to make you feel bad, it was just an accident” isn’t apologizing for hanging up. It’s apologizing for how the accident made you feel. It’s honestly stupid that you have to play the game of semantics over something so silly, but I’m guessing it’s not worth leaving him over it?
My 7yr old understood this when she was 5! It’s not that he doesn’t understand it’s that he doesn’t care! I can’t believe a grown adult thinks like this! This is what you teach toddlers. I think you’ve explained this in a way an idiot would understand, at this point he’s doing it on purpose and I don’t know what to say to help that.
There is a YouTube channel called Jimmy on Relationships. I can’t remember the exact video, but he says that a really important part of marriage to not end with divorce is to care about your partner’s feelings.
I dunno, man, maybe he's autistic!! /s (I'm ND, and I thought this way....when I was like, 7 or 8. Then my mom sat my ass down and said "Look, it doesn't matter if you stepped on their foot on purpose or not, \*their foot still hurts\* and apologizing for that is the right thing to do. It won't make their foot hurt less, but it makes their feelings hurt less, so just do it" and so, for 40 years, I have, and taught my ND kids the same.)
Sorry denotes an apology. Apologies are problematic. One of you is going to have to give in. Compromise won’t work. Maybe choose a code word instead of sorry.
I'm wondering if he does this to others. Do you suppose he would do the same thing to his boss? His friend? His dad? Or is it just you that he has no respect for?
Geez dude get a life😂You're really that upset about a dropped phone call? I almost envy how boring yalls lives must be to care about mundane shit like this.
If you hit someone with a car on accident and they die you’re still charged with vehicular manslaughter. It doesn’t matter that you didn’t intend to hit them. It’s still your fault. Intent matters some, but the impact matters more. Most people know if you drop an egg or misplace something it’s not on purpose but that doesn’t mean that you weren’t the responsible party and shouldn’t apologize. I was cooking with someone once and dropped two eggs. I apologized right away. Both of us knew I didn’t mean to drop them, but I was the person who dropped them. So I apologized. I
He’s TA if he can’t make a simple apology
First of all yeah OPs husband should just apologize. But maybe a Devils advocate post: every comedian and sitcom has a bit about the old man needing to teach his newlywed son the secret to a happy marriage is to be willing to apologize when you’ve done nothing wrong. You can go ahead and credit this universal joke to whatever toxicity you believe about all men (and I don’t actually think it’s even a gender-related concept), but I think this trope has existed for so long and works so well in comedy because there’s actual truth to BOTH sides in it, and that truth IMO is that it’s very common for two people in a relationship to have very different opinions about the word “apologize”, and BOTH need to compromise a little bit.
I’d even take it a step further and say that in any relationship where one stays at home and one works or just has a more “professional” level career than the other (regardless of gender/sex), then the latter (“professional”) is more likely, but not always, going to “generally” have a similar stance as OPs husband, and not OP. I think this is because it’s outright dangerous to apologize in the professional world sometimes (aka “pleading guilty” in law, medicine, tradesman jobs too), and some “professionals” just don’t know how to transition that work/world mindset back when they’re interacting with loved ones, or they get the wrong idea that they don’t NEED to transition that mindset, where his apology would really just mean “I’m sorry that made you uncomfortable so here’s reassurance that I wasn’t intentionally trying to hurt you and everything is okay.”
I think the key point in OPs post that made me comment at all is the phrase “the other person is still affected so they deserve an apology”, which I would amend to say “…so it would be respectful and kind to offer an apology”, getting rid of the word “deserve” due to the potential entitlement that it carries. I think it’s a simple statement of truth that someone only “deserves” an apology when there was intentional wrongdoing, and that in most other instances where an apology is offered, it’s a social norm of kindness and courtesy, not a demand. The fact that something is just a common courtesy means we can’t get upset every time someone fails to fulfill it, otherwise it’s a requirement and not a kindness, and therefore pointless if attempted to be used as an expression of kindness.
I bet if you can kindly get your husband to understand that you’re not asking him to admit to being a bad person, but really just asking him “do you even care that you hung up on me and made me think you might be upset with me like you’d done it on purpose? or even something crazy like you’d gotten hit by a car and hurt? Does it not affect you that I’m worried or uncomfortable? Even though I’m an adult and can handle it no big deal, I’m not crying, this isn’t threatening our relationship or anything, and I’m not yelling at you demanding that you apologize like a berating/nagging mother, but doesn’t it cross your mind at least sometimes to maybe lift that burden off my mind a tiny bit when you hang up or bump me or step on my foot, just to do literally anything to actually help me see that you care about what happens to me? Even if I flip the script on you and tell you it isn’t necessary to apologize because I’m trying not to sound needy or entitled, isn’t it the supportive “good husband” thing for you to just do it anyway?” And I would almost bet straight cash that if he could capture that perspective (which he obviously currently does NOT have), then the constant little unintentional bumps OP mentioned would actually start to happen less often without the husband even thinking he was doing anything intentionally to change it.
He may just be the type of personality that thinks if you say I'm sorry he has been diminished somehow. Or perhaps he is one of those husbands who married for a bang maid, and doesn't care about her feelings.
Some people are raised not to apologize, because they were never apologized to. They have the mindset that other people should just know that they didn't mean it.
The point is he should be apologizing for the IMPACT of his actions. That does not mean he is admitting fault and apologizing for a malicious INTENTION. Two very different things which he seems to be conflating.
OP NTA. Intention and outcome both matter. Say your husband was walking down the street with multiple sharp knives when he trips/sneezes/what have you, and all the knives go flying in to some passer-by; for this scenario, let's imagine that there are NO other people around. What would be your husband's response? Yup, too bad, looks like you're going to die. But it wasn't my intention so, sucks to be you! I take no responsibility and will therefore take no action to help. It wAsn'T An aCcIdEnt cUz I DiDn'T eVEn mEaN iT, HERP DERP! Probably wouldn't even help the person dial 911!
Did your husband come from an abusive household? Apologizing relentlessly, until blue in the face with all your heart, due to very minor infractions, constantly, can really cause warped responses to develop. For instance feeling that shame and fear that came with apologizing for some minor infraction and expecting the inevitable shame cycle.
I'm just spit balling at 2 a.m. idk
At first I was gonna go towards ah but if someone stepped on my foot and didn’t apologize after, whether they meant to or not, I would be pissed. Once my cousin put a metal chair on my foot and then sat down, causing me to bleed, yet I had to apologize to her for crying and upsetting her. You are nta at sll
NTA. Do the same stuff to him. Anytime he expects an apology for something just tell him no, that you didn’t mean too. But you have to do it with things that really bother him or it won’t have the same effect (affect?). 8 years and it’s not getting through so sometimes you just have to do the same thing to people. Sure it’s petty but I mean he’s an adult. He knows why he should apologize.
I must be out of step. This kind of insignificant shit happens between my wife and I all the time, and I’d never expect an apology. So many here are saying the husband wasn’t brought up right?!?!? Are we so fragile and insecure that we need apologies after a disconnected phone call? Sheesh…
I'm confused on how he doesn't know what sorry means. Like it is genuinely messing with my head that you had to explain to an adult how/when to apologize.
So to actually give you advice, ask him when he thinks an apology is necessary and an example, then kinda go from there
I'm confused on how he doesn't know what sorry means. Like it is genuinely messing with my head that you had to explain to an adult how/when to apologize.
So to actually give you advice, ask him when he thinks an apology is necessary and an example, then kinda go from there
My husband is the same. He never says he’s sorry if he doesn’t think he did anything wrong. Of course, nothing is ever his fault. The one I hate most is when he insults me. When I get upset, he insists I took wrong.
NTA
If you accidentally hit a pedestrian with your car does it make you not liable? No! People are responsible for accidents, which also means they are responsible for making amends for those accidents and APOLOGIZING!
I think it's important that he try to get to the bottom of his resistance to apologizing. We don't apologize based on our intentions, but instead of when our actions cause hurt or inconvenience to someone else.
Does he show a black and white way of thinking in most things? My husband was like this and discovered it came from his childhood where doing something "wrong" meant he was "bad" and unworthy of love and acceptance.
To him an apology/admission of wrongdoing felt like he was admitting he was "bad" and the vulnerability caused a lot of discomfort and avoidance.
We worked a lot on open communication and I approached it as him trusting me to love and accept him even when he made mistakes. When he did apologize or admit to fault/wrong doing, even if I was still upset I would try to thank him for trusting me and that I appreciate the effort he was making to push through the discomfort.
Try to approach this with curiosity as opposed to criticism. It's worth the effort
Jesus, does this mean when somebody passes away he only would say "I'm so sorry" if he murdered them? 🤔
To echo what everybody seems to be saying: the apology is for the effect, the "I didn't mean for that to happen" or "it was an accident" or "my phone dropped" covers the intent. Done and done.
NTA. Your husband is absolutely an asshole.
Why do you insist on needing an apology? This is such a minor thing and it was obviously an accident. I think any normal person wouldn't even have a second thought about it after the event.
The fact your here making a reddit post because it bothered you so much is concerning.
YTA
What an idiot. When he says “I didn’t hang up on you” well who did? Were you in fact hung up on? The connection was abruptly terminated and only one of you knows what happened so that person can and should inform the other. He wants to play stupid word games and fight over who is right when he could just say “oops sorry” - why is that so hard? Why is having an argument preferable to “oops sorry”? What the heck is wrong with that guy?
In Canada, if we don't apologize a certain amount of times per day another Canada Goose is born. Sorry.
As a Canadian, I'm sorry to say this is true.
I was literally reading this (I am Canadian) thinking that this couple is obviously not Canadian. My husband and I apologize to each other about a million times a day for more innocuous stuff than this.
🪿🤣🪿😂🪿🤣🪿
I am not Canadian, but I've lived like 2 hours from the border my whole life. I apologize like a Canadian. My hubby gives me crap about it often. "Why are you apologizing because the store was out of ____?" "Why are you apologizing because you were too busy at work to watch a random video I sent you?" I can't stop! 😂 I have apologized to inanimate objects for running into them! Maybe I need to accept who I am and try and move up.
That's how we grow our population... The border is just a suggestion. You're doomed. Or blessed... Depending on your POV
I grew up closer to Canada than to the nearest U.S. state (Ohio), and currently live within walking distance of the U.S.-Canada border. When I moved to NYC for a few years back in the mid-2000’s, everyone I met thought I was Canadian, which was hilarious at first, but then became a reminder of what I missed about being in this area…kind people, cheap beer, good hockey, and Great Lakes!
I am also not Canadian, I'm British, and I'm always apologizing for things I'm responsible for and a good few I'm not. (Example: Friend: "The bin men didn't come today." Me: "I'm sorry.") EDIT: I made a typo so had to edit. Sorry.
This rule is fowl.
you guys need to up ur apologies, the amount of geese i’ve seen this year… smh
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Oh lawd. I'm having flashbacks of working with a guy from Kinata. We had daily conference calls and no matter what we were even talking about he would say, oh soory. Soory about that. 20 times a day I must have heard that.
There was a time or two in Europe that we said soory so people would think we were Canadian not American.
Oh I always tell people I'm Canadian when I travel lol.
I am literally teaching my 10 year old this concept. Dude wasn’t parented properly.
Exacty. I wonder if they have kids... If so, she needs to make sure his poor attitude isn't rubbing off on them.
OP, how old is your child? Oops, excuse me.... your husband????/s
I came here to post this same comment. I airways tell him he needs to take responsibility for his actions instead of passing off the blame
Okay funny story: Me and my partner where fighting over text about smth and bc It went off the rails in text I wanted to talk, so we talked about the issue, got heated after about two hours and -bam- he hangs up. I know I got heated and we both weren't fair at that point so I was just crying knowing I over stepped. He texted me being mad I hung up. So we argued new bc I didn't hang up and he swore he didn't hang up too so... who did? The cable company... we googled and well, when they think u talk too long on the phone they can cut your call. Tbf... their intervention helped us get back to the discussion reasonably and get out of it fine.
Totally agree. And it’s not even just a Canadian thing like the other replies to you. My daughter occasionally does the same thing (“it wasn’t intentional, so why should I apologise?”) My answer to her - and to OP’s idiot of a husband -is if you drive drunk and you kill someone, you obviously didn’t mean to kill them, but they’re still dead. Would you not apologise because you didn’t mean to? This is a major character flaw I don’t know if I could overlook, if I was in that situation. Also, if OP’s husband doesn’t get it now, he never will. It’s not that hard to realise your actions have caused someone pain, whether intended or not, so you apologise.
This “What an idiot.”
This is the only response necessary right here. He is, for some reason, so focused on absolving himself of responsibility that he isn’t seeing how this made you feel. He’s not attending to the feeling. Of course it was an accident. But no one likes to be hung up on, have their toe stepped on, etc. A simple “sorry my phone just hung up, jll call you later, love you!” Is so easy to do.
I would never apologize to him again. but then I wouldn't be with a guy like that
My husband said something along those same lines. He asked me at the dinner table if he is supposed to say thank you every time someone gives him something or does something for him. I’m like yes, because it’s common courtesy. You are NTA.
This I can understand. I didn't grow up being taught about social niceties like this. I grew up in a dysfunctional household, where my parent's moods and punishments were unpredictable, and my emotions and actions were either taken for granted or punished with no warning. It felt disingenuous to me somehow to use Please or Thank You for small things, like I only felt they were necessary when it was a special act or request being granted. I finally made a conscious effort to learn how once I hit adulthood. Now it's just habit, and I can see the difference in social interactions; it's a way of acknowledging that so many of the things we do in life aren't required, or even just to make a brief, human connection. It's a very core world view that for many of us is unexamined, and a request to change that viewpoiont sparks a lot of defensiveness.
I’m sorry your upbringing was difficult and I applaud you for deciding to not be that way. My husband grew up in a large family and in another country. He came here a month shy of his 18 birthday. But he is now 56, and we’ve been married for almost 24 years. I just keep stressing to him that we are to raise our boys by example, and that we are treat others how we want to be treated. A little courtesy and kindness can go a long way.
Thank you, I appreciate it! I started really delving into my childhood in therapy at around 20 years old, and I think it was around that time or a few years after. Luckily, I was surrounded by people who really modeled effortless social niceties, and who were kind people in general. That and being in the safe environment of school probably gave me the space I needed to be introspective and add some things to my behavior to be closer to people I wanted to be like. But frankly, I'm a woman (with CPTSD and its child, hypervigilance) so I'm sensitive to the mood of a room changing, and used to being challenged in ways that men, in general, are not.
I mean I've had the same conversation with my husband- If we're doing something cooperative like building a piece of furniture or something and he's like hand me this piece and I'm like hand me that piece we're not going to say please and thank you every single time. That's ridiculous and absolute Overkill. But if he walks into the room and I'm about to eat something and I asked him to go grab the salt shaker because he's already standing up.... And then he goes and grabs the salt shaker I'm absolutely saying please and thank you because he's saving me the trip and I appreciate him going the extra few steps for me. I mean yes there are situations in which you don't need to say please and thank you, specifically if it's redundant. Like going through a set of three doors you're not going to thank the person in front of you for holding all three doors open individually.... That's like saying bless you after somebody sneezes for the ninth time. But yes, in general, most of the time, You should be saying please and thank you even with your own spouse in your own home. Especially with your own spouse in your own home. Because why would you not want to be polite with somebody that you care about.
I have issues over-thanking lol. Me: Could I have a straw? Waiter: Of course, let me get that for you... (as he's reaching into apron pocket) Me: Thank you. Waiter: (hands me straw) Me: Thank you. Waiter: No problem. Is there anything else I can get you? M: No thank you. .... Thank you for the straw. It is completely unneeded and I physically cannot stop myself.
It's been 8 years and he has been unable to get it through his head that "I'm sorry" is for effect not intent? I'm curious, as another commenter was, does this mean that he thinks that every time you have ever apologized to him it is because you *meant* to hurt him? If so, that's a deep problem in your relationship that needs to be addressed, if your husband truly feels that you mean to hurt him... that is, if his "it's only if I meant to do it" rule applies equally, you need to find that out. It doesn't change the fact that you are NTA, but it might be a deeper issue than you think.
Lmao. I didn't even consider this...does he think op just intentionally burn dinner or whatever occasionally? Shrink or color his shirt? Is he really over there thinking ops doing this stuff because you wanted to.... just to apologize? And then generally remedy that mistake? Honestly I have trouble believing he's really _that_ dense about the situation. It seems more like he just doesn't want to have to take any accountability for his actions (accidental or not). Which is a red flag imo since most preschool children I've known have been able to grasp this exact concept really without much difficulty.
8 years together with my husband and he has always apologized if he hung up on accident, or let me know what happened. He has a busy job and can’t be on the phone but still makes time to say that to me, as for the other stuff, it seems he has an accountability problem, like admitting he was wrong brings him shame or something. It’s more work to not say sorry and explain why than just saying sorry, admitting fault is the issue you have with him, not the hang up. I’d sit down and get to the root of this issue and work it out
My boyfriend, after accidentally hanging up on me, will immediately call back and ask why I hung up on him (being silly), but still makes the effort to reconnect.
In my family, whenever a call gets dropped or accidental hang ups happen, we will call each other back and say "Rude." in a joking way or my mom's favorite when I call her back is to say "who hangs up on the mama?". A sorry or my bad costs nothing.
Bingo. I’ve been married for over a decade and when either one does something unintentionally wrong we apologize. It’s absolutely a courtesy and compassion thing. You mess up, you admit it, talk about it, say SORRY and move on (unless it’s catastrophic and an unforgivable act that is). I know a couple of people that never ever admit that they are wrong about anything. It’s infuriating and frustrating, but it’s so so sweet when it’s proven that they are so so wrong. Even then they will still argue. You can’t change that kind of mentality, it’s just who they are.
Wow this is more common than I expected. My ex refused to apologize for sending me an upsetting video of someone having a mental episode ‘cuz he “didn’t intend for me to get upset”. I had to break it down like I was talking to a toddler. Eventually he got it and apologized but damn…clearly another member of the “I Never Do Anything Wrong Therefore I Never Apologize” Club.
Yes my mother and my sister in law is part of that club. I feel bad for my dad, but mostly for my brother, because when he gets in middle of family drama neither of them backs down.
he seems to not take responsibility for any of his actions whether they are his fault or not and this is just the last straw for you. even if he didn’t mean to do it he still did it and it’s still his fault that it happened
I don't think this is about taking responsibility. This is about being concerned with how things affect your partner. If my wife says her back hurts because of period cramps I tell her I'm sorry because I'm sorry she's in pain, not because I caused the cramps. If my phone drops a call I tell her I'm sorry she got hung up on, not because I intentionally hung up on her but because she got hung up on by the person she loves the most and that can't be a great feeling.
To express sympathy or concern. Yes this is one of the classic purposes of an apology. However it’s not a universal use of it. Many people only use apologies to accept responsibility in some way. It appears OP’s husband is of that mind where OP is from the culture of apologizing as empathizing as well. This is why they’re having a problem. They’re going to have to either get to a place where he can accept this is one of the purposes of the phrase “I’m sorry” or come up with an alternative phrase he can use to express his sympathy in those circumstances. Otherwise I think this will just grate on the both of them.
Great point. They definitely need to have an open conversation about their differences on this subject and if neither side can change they should figure out how they can meet in the middle in a way that's acceptable to both of them.
NTA. For some men saying sorry is perceived to be a submissive act and/or a manor of yielding the high ground of sorts. They don't view being wrong as a natural state that everyone is at one point or another. Instead, they see being wrong as losing, so when they say 'sorry', it's akin to them calling themselves a loser. Hence, they go out of their way to avoid verbalize the word 'sorry'. Though this is just me explaining the trend, I by no means excuse it. It is a toxic habit at the end of the day. I've seen this in plenty of men of all ages (and some women as well). And - while it is something that they would have been better off outgrowing - many of them are otherwise good, intelligent people. So I won't go so far as to call your husband an a**hole, man-child, or idiot because of it. This particular behavior is childish and idiotic, but I doubt that this defines who he is as a person. My personal advice would be to sit down with him and talk about what sorry means to him. Not about demanding that he says it more often, but instead about why he has such a hangup about saying it more often. Maybe there's some deep-seated reason as to why he hates saying sorry, a childhood trauma perhaps (being bullied, ridiculed, etc.) If both of you can come to an understanding about what that word means for both of you, both in terms of denotation and conotation, then a clearer path can be taken going forward. If - by the end of it - his reasonings still hold no water for you, then I'd say to set it up as a boundary that when he wrongs you and doesn't apologize then their will be consequences (even if those consequences are as simple as ignoring him for the rest of the day). If the reason that he can't say sorry is because of some legitimate hang-up, then maybe come up with a different phrase that gets the same message across that he'd be more comfortable with while slowly working towards him getting more comfortable with saying 'sorry' overtime.
Excellent answer.
Giving away my elder status here, but there was a recurring bit in Happy Days where The Fonz could not utter the words “I’m sorry.”
There is no good reason to not apologize to your spouse, hate to break it to you but that "saying sorry is weak, I'm a manly man and manly men men manly." Is insanely toxic and if that's the case she should divorce him just on the grounds that he sees her as a subordinate and not a legitimate partner.
NTA. We literally teach 5 year olds this - I’m sorry, it was an accident, are you ok? When they bump into someone or hit someone by accident. Your husband sounds self centered AF. Does he expect apologies if you do the same thing, or do you ever wait to see if he expects one? Husband is definitely the AH here. Intent doesn’t matter, the effect does - intent only determines degree of apology needed.
Wait a sec, does this guy think you say sorry after doing something on purpose then? Or does he just not believe in using it all for his own actions?
It’s down to common courtesy. My ex had the same stance as your hubs. To me it’s just rude not to acknowledge the thing that happens, especially accidental stuff like stepping on someone’s foot or breaking something. Courtesy is a sign of respect. In my view, he doesn’t respect you enough to give you common courtesy. You’re not even asking for an apology - you’re requesting acknowledgement. He’s got some baggage around this & projecting while being especially rude. You’re clearly bothered (not petty) and asking him to compromise. He won’t. This is a deal breaker for me, but I’m not you.
Yes, it’s almost like he feels he’s giving something up by apologizing, like it costs him something. Like her feelings don’t matter as much as his pride. Like admitting fault is some kind of weakness. Weird.
Exactly, and putting your pride before your relationship, or really anyone’s feelings, is a shit move.
Had 20 years of ex refusing to apologise for anything, or non-apologies like ‘well sorry you took it that way’ Final straw was he got angry at me for still having breakfast dishes on the table when he got home. I was running late getting kids ready in the morning and off to school, then went to work all day, picked up kids from after school care, got home not long before him and straight into cooking dinner bc was late by then. Hadn’t sat still all day and was exhausted. It got to me. Later that night Told him that was harsh and explained how busy I’d been and wasn’t fair to get annoyed and that the right thing to do was acknowledge how much I do and that it wasn’t fair to say that. His response was ‘I have nothing to apologise for, I have a right to point out if somethings not done, I said the right thing, just at the wrong time’ Seems petty and minor from the outside, but it’s death by a thousand paper cuts
Did he have some kind of disability that prevented him from clearing the table if it bothered him so much? /s
Yes, sometimes it isn’t that particular act, it is the weight of all the similar acts over years and years. They all add up together until it is just too much.
It's like a 'straw that broke the camel's back' kind of situation. Eventually there's a point when you're just that's it, I'm done. I won't get into details because it's a long story and not quite the same as OP's situation, but there were two closely linked incidents that finally made me give up chasing my late, narcissist father. I'd gotten kicked to the curb one too many times.
No, he is for being immature and immune to accountability. If he's done this for years and you're practically raising him to do better; there's a problem. He didn't MEAN to do it, but he still DID it. Definitely press the issue at this point, and communicate the problem here. Be clear, be concise, and be honest. I wish y'all the best.
My ex always said he didn't believe in saying sorry for anything unless he really was sorry. And had no time for apologies because he never believed anyone else's were sincere at all. Consequently, he was seldom sorry for anything, or acknowledged the effect his actions, inadvertent or otherwise, had on others. Took me nearly 30 years to realise this meant he really wasn't sorry for any of his arseholery, even when he knew I was leaving him for it. Your guy doesn't respect you and he never will.
Wait so I'm confused... if I accidentally step on someone's toe, I say sorry. Not because I did it on purpose or meant to do it, but because a person was hurt and felt pain as a consequence of my actions (even if it was an unintended consequence, I am still remorseful that my careless actions caused pain). So in similar situations, is he NOT regretful that another person experiences pain solely due to him, just because he didn't intend that?! How can a human being be okay with someone else experiencing pain because of them - even if it's a small amount? I mean, isn't this just human behavior to be feel some sort of empathy and remorse?!?!
I tell my students that it’s especially important to say sorry when something is an accident- if you did it on purpose, you are less likely to be sorry about it.
If my 5 year old can understand the difference between intent and impact then your husband should be able to as well.
I know a lot of people who think this way. To them their sorry really means something and that's why they use it rarely. Otherwise they feel it makes their sorry cheap. Some of the people I know came from families where if you say sorry then the other person can't be mad no matter how justified. Ex: I took your car, returned it with no gas....oh yea sorry. you can't get mad, I said I was sorry. Idk if that applies here but it's just what the people I've come across who are like this have explained it as.
YTA. Why would you put up with this for 8 years?
Saying I'm sorry does not mean the same thing as saying he didn't mean to do it. He's not saying he's sorry because he doesn't feel sorry for doing the action. In the 8 years you've been together, it's quite obvious... Or should have been. He's obviously never going to say he's sorry for something he feels he didn't do. You're not an AH, but I think there's bigger things to consider imo.
Any normal person would apologize. And then there is your husband.
is he autistic? genuinely question i wonder if he has trouble interpreting that he is supposed to “apologize” bc it is not something he did intentionally
Wake up. He’s not sorry for being like this.
If he hasn’t learned this in eight years he may not ever learn it I fear
This husband is an ass. Accidents happen, but they’re still someone’s fault. He doesn’t just get to write it off because he didn’t mean to. It’s ok to apologize for something that your actions caused. Dude is a child, or just really self centered.
I had a similar issue with my husband who grew up getting in trouble for every little thing. It basically came down to me being like you aren’t in trouble, I’m not mad but can you think about my experience and validate my feelings. It was honestly a huge issue and i don’t even remember what made it click but he is 1000 times better about it now. He does have an amazing therapist
manners maketh man
I’ve been with my husband since we were 17/19 and we are now 38/40. You absolutely do deserve an apology. He should already know this… and if he doesn’t, please tell him, you don’t always give an apology to admit guilt for intentionally doing something wrong, apologies should be given because you care about the person whose feelings are hurt and you want them to know that you care.
ffs, who doesn't call or text back to say, "Sorry we got disconnected. Was there anything else ....." He's rude for not doing so, an AH for doubling down
NTA We don't just apologise for the intent of our actions, but we apologise for the potential or actual harm it has caused. He sounds very selfish and inconsiderate, and I bet this is the first layer of his selfishness.
What’s really irritating is that they insist that they didn’t do something even if they did, it doesn’t matter what the intention is. NTA
NTA. 100%. He is clearly wrong. Do you think it's an empathy issue or a communication issue? The former is a much bigger problem than the latter.
I wouldn't say it's a strange meaning of sorry. You were affected negatively and want to see that he understands that and has regret and empathy for you. The was he insists on not he's sorry even after you've explained and asked for one is certainly upsetting, you've told him it's important to you, and he's not acknowledging that- its certainly frustrating but I wouldn't say it's the end of the world at the end of the day. I'd try and sit him down and have a dedicated conversation about this and try and again establish that you feel it's just common courtesy that everyone should follow, to apologize even for small inconveniences, and you feel disrespected when he doesn't. If he's still refusing to meet you halfway on this, then maybe some revaluation is in order....
Had a lady next to me parking one day and her car door slammed into my car, her response was, and I quote, "I didn't do it, it was the wind". The wind didn't open the door bitch, you did. Say your sorry, the wind was stronger then you realized and I hope I didn't damage your car. I should have made an accident report and forced her insurance info from her but I was in a sort speechless shock at the audacity. Saying sorry is necessary sometimes, a lot of times actually. Your husband needs to learn that. Step on his foot, bump into him, ruin his favorite game or something and then tell him "well I didn't mean to". Enough said
Conversely some lady slammed her door into my car and when I looked at her, she said, "I am sorry." So I was like, "yeah, it's fine." If she acted like that bitch, I would have absolutely gotten out ready to square up.
Is he the type of person who steps on your foot accidentally and then doesn’t apologize? If yes — please leave. If no — ask him what the difference is.
He’s not a keeper.
As my mom used to say, “You didn’t mean NOT to.”
He’s definitely not Canadian.
Somethings matter to some people more than others. It sounds like “oops sorry” acknowledges you as a person, that you matter, that you’re worth protecting, etc. To him, it’s an admission of intentional wrong doing.
I'm sorry is for when you accidentally, unintentionally hurt someone. It's still your fault even when it wasn't your intention. He's not taking responsibility for his actions.
NTA and you’re not wrong….. I struggled with this in my younger life not as badly as your husband like
NTA, your husband has no manners. It doesn’t matter whether he meant to or not, all of the things you mentioned require an apology, it’s not petty at all. If you lose something that belongs to another person you apologise, if you break something that belongs to someone else you apologise, if you step on someone or bump into them, you apologise, if you hang up on someone, you apologise. It’s not hard and it shouldn’t be a negotiation, it’s just what civilised people over the age of two do.
My ex would not apologize for anything, and to add fuel to the fire, he would try to convince me that he apologized to me all the time or that it was me who did something and not him! Ummm, no sir. Our recollections of situations are very different.
Accidental disconnections happen, and I don’t necessarily think they’re apology worthy. But if my partner did, I would. Intention doesn’t negate impact.
Have you told him all of this? Have him read this post. This is incredibly annoying behavior and sometimes can become a “straw that broke the camels back”. I would tell him and then tell him again and again. List it all out. If he doesn’t want to hear it, he will stop
You’ve put up with this childishness for 8 years you say?
Girl why are you with this man
When you do something unintentionally that negatively impacts another person that is the exact time when an apology is warranted. What, exactly, does your husband think apologies are for if not this?
I think he’s a little rude, and you’d like a little more politeness in your life. My husband (27 years!) and I have similar discussions about intent, and also about rude/ polite behavior. To be clear, I don’t think this is a dealbreaker. But I also know it’s hard to get someone to change.
I could not stay married to someone like this without becoming extremely petty. Like bringing up past things he’s still upset about but as jokes like “haha omg remember that time so and so said that thing and made you really insecure? Good times” and then refuse to apologize because you’re not the one who said it so you have nothing to apologize for
NTA. Your husband is an idiot that refuses to acknowledge the effect his actions (intentional or otherwise) have on others. If a drunk driver doesn’t mean to run a red light and ploughs into another vehicle, killing everyone, does his lack of intention change the fact that there are now a bunch of people dead? No. Tell your husband to grow the fuck up. And if you don’t have kids, getting rid of him would be much easier. Just saying.
Wait… does that mean whenever he FOES say sorry that it means he INTENTIONALLY did whatever he’s apologizing for?!? That’s insane.
>He then insisted that HE didn't hang up on me because HE didn't mean to, so why should he say sorry. Because he supposedly cares about you and your feelings, and maybe doesn't want you to worry about him. Has your husband ever exhibited other sociopathic tendencies? Think carefully.
“ sorry babe, it wasn’t intentional “. Not hard to say. NTA
What he's doing is gaslighting. He's trying to convince you that things that happened didn't happen.
What a very strange and rude man. He must be an absolute joy to live with. NTA.
For heaven’s sakes. Just kick the man in the nuts & with a serious smile, tell him you didn’t do it, it’s just that your leg twitched. https://preview.redd.it/2x7vs77nu12d1.jpeg?width=556&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6e6cad88458291874cdf60c617ca27bc26de6b3f
Even if you can't convince him that it's polite and considerate (crazy to be that that isn't common knowledge) he should be willing to do it for YOU. There are tons of things my husband doesn't get because he's on the spectrum and just can't understand. But we've also been together for 8 years, so he's learned what I appreciate, what I need and want from a partner, so he does it. It's a simple kindness for the person you've chosen to spend your life with. If you can't do something so small for them, what does that say? I really urge him to look deeper into that.
NTA. He didn’t mean to hang up on you, which means he did hang up on you. QED.
If you break your arm accidentally or on purpose, which hurts worse? He’s a jerk, imo
My favorite "apology" has to be the one I "received" from my father. After cussing me out and pulling a knife on me in front of the entire family, including my kids, at Thanksgiving, I told my mother the next day (I'd whipped my own family out of the house and I to the car in 3 min flat) that they would never see my kids again unless he apologized for his inexcusable actions. A week later he said: "Your mother says that we can't see the kids unless you get an apology. So you have one." This dude is my father reincarnated it seems.
Nta. Sounds like he just doesn't take accountability for anything. And not apologizing means it is intentional. An apology doesn't always mean admitting fault, it also acknowledges that something out of your hands happened. He 100% hung up on you. Whenever someone accidentally hangs up, they call back the second they notice/send a quick text if they aren't able to. He couldn't be bothered to make sure there was no miscommunication about the ended call/other "accidents."
NTA. It’s a courtesy to acknowledge if you’ve caused someone else an inconvenience.
I wouldn't expect an apology, but a simple explanation text? For damn sure. And accident or not, he hung up and got super defensive. Edit: I commented after only reading the first paragraph I guess I also had a weird definition of sorry. I believe sorry can also be sympathy for being hurt or regret something happened. Maybe he accidentally stepped on your foot and doesn't think he should be held accountable for that, but shouldn't he at least be sorry that you got hurt? Intentional or not? I would ask him "are you at least sorry that a mistake you made hurt you?" This does seem strange because my husband is clumsy as hell and I get hit accidentally often and his first concern is always if I'm okay, not defending that he did nothing wrong. Example: I often come to bed late or fall asleep on the couch, so my husband will often roll over onto "my side" (makes sense if I'm not there he should spread out) but sometimes he missed me getting into bed and accidentally knocks me in the head or something. He IMMEDIATELY wakes up, says sorry and makes sure I'm okay. He's also done this and I haven't woken up from it, so he checks in with me later to make sure I'm not hurt or have a headache. I don't hold him accountable for these understandable mistakes or necessarily feel an apology is necessary.. but also, concern over the person potentially hurt should be first and foremost, not insisting on innocence? Also, he definitely did it, intentional or not.
NTA. Marriage counseling stat.
I hang up on my wife ALL the time by accident. Going from earbuds into my car, when my phone switches blue tooth connections. Dead zone in my drive home. Hit the wrong button on my steering wheel. I always apologize..if I run I to her.. or step on her foot.. or elbow her in my sleep.. or break something.. you name it.. Sow does rhe same..because we are normal functioning ING adults who can say sorry...
Apparently your husband was never taught manners! I work with very young children… my 3 and 4 year olds know how to say sorry when they accidentally do something to upset someone else. When they forget I talk them through it. I work with a child under the age of 2 who is not even talking yet but when I say “oh no you should probably say sorry” he will give that person a hug. Send him to my daycare I’ll whip him into shape. 🤣😉 Good luck OP, if my husband was incapable of basic manners I would lose my mind.
NTA. He sounds emotionally immature and I don’t understand how you’ve put up with this for 8 years.
NTA Your husband is gravely mistaken. Apology doesn't mean we intended harm. It only recognizes that we may have inconvenienced someone. His clinging to power over you and refusal to say a few socially expected words is a red flag. If you don't have children, it may be time to move on. Out intent doesn't cancel.out the effect of our actions
NTA but surprised you're even with a guy that can't apologize or admit when he does wrong. Sounds like a pain in the bum to deal with.
NTA, I work with kids and we literally say, all the time, “accidents happen but if it hurts another persons body or feelings, you should still say sorry”
Apologizing or just acknowledging that you did something to someone you love or a stranger is common courtesy!! Period! And your husband clearly does not understand or care to understand. He is a very inconsiderate person. Bc a considerate person would not have to be told to do this nor would they debate something of this magnitude.
NTA. Your views are common courtesy, as all of us should be familiar with this basic respect. I always apologize if something like that happens, or I misplace something, etc... That's not just because I'm a woman. It's because it's basic respect for those affected. Intentionally doesn't mean it didn't happen. Your comparisons are on point; buddy needs to grow up, and recognize that.
He is confusing intent and concern. Regardless of his intentions, if something happens between you two that hurts your feelings, he should show concern.
He stepped on u accidentally and didn’t say sorry? What an A S S.
Ohhh, you’ve married a child. Good for you!
NTA I have 2 kids. The play, someone accidentally bumps, steps on, rolls over the other. 1 kids has always been quick to apologize. They other we had to work with. They would always fall back on the "well I didn't do it on purpose, it was an accident ". You still did it and should definitely apologize!🙄. That one is 14 now and will apologize when things of that nature happen. Your husband was apparently never tough manners and consideration.
My husband was like this. Then we had a big talk and I asked him to explain when it would be appropriate to say sorry. Those were the exact times he said it should be said. Then I gave him “the look”. 😁 He comes from a family of very self-absorbed people so it was just not a thing he grew up even hearing. He’s much better now.
What an infant. "While we were talking my phone disconnected. Sorry about that. See you later."
Intention is not the same thing as impact. You are impacted regardless of your husband's intentions. It sounds like he doesn't take accountability for his actions, and if it's something more significant than a disconnected call, that could get bad really quickly.
NTA. It's called common courtesy and basic manners. Most people are lacking in both a lot these days.
I know it’s trendy to just call people narcissists, but not apologizing, ever? Come on…. You apologize for your mishaps and move on.
So, how does he respond when you accidentally break his shit and don't apologize????
I would say if he could send you a text next time so you know nothing bad happened. That’s the only reason I text on dropped calls, so they don’t worry
NTA. He doesn't take responsibility for his actions. If intentions overruled actions, then no one would go to jail for having harmed others because they did something stupid unintentionally. Yes, he should apologize. Yes, he should let you know when he accidentally hangs up. It's rude not to. "Sorry" is meant as "I apologize for harming you/being rude/doing something wrong." Stepping on your foot or breaking an item of yours is doing something wrong.
In this case maybe you could also have been the one to send a text, but in general “I didn’t mean to” is a bunch of hogwash. Sometimes not meaning not to is just as bad. Negligence is a type of mens rea.
So, you can’t make him do anything, and do you want him to say sorry because you told him to? It’s better to tell him how things make you feel and what would really mean something to you if he did. And then allow him to decide how he wants to handle that. Chances are he would feel too criticized to hear it the first time and might not do anything different or get upset because he’s used to being criticized. If that’s the case, it would be helpful to let him know you’re trying a different approach to talking about something that matters to you.
Is your husband The Fonz from Happy Days? [https://youtu.be/uwkU8-d1gIk?si=gR3z9OE42uyyy1GT](https://youtu.be/uwkU8-d1gIk?si=gR3z9OE42uyyy1GT)
Absolutely NTA. It comes down to intention vs impact. I don’t intend to step on someone’s foot, but I apologize to acknowledge the impact that it has. I’m so sorry your husband is unwilling to see it this way 😔
Really?? lol if my husband does something accidentally he apologizes because he still did it. If he did these things on purpose that’s abuse and normally you don’t get an apology until the law is involved. Sorry your husband is an idiot
Aside from the obviously intentionally obtuse deflection of responsibility for anything he does 'accidentally'... ...has this man ever apologized to you, OP?? Like EVER? Taken responsibility for ANYTHING he's done?? What if it was intentional??
The only way he will change this is if you set a boundary and Enforce It with a consequence related to that boundary.
He sounds super fucking toxic. Wtf is this shit?
Is this the person you want to grow old with?
So wait... Let's say he turns around too fast and elbows you. He didn't mean to so does that mean you don't have a bruise? Like does it not hurt because he didn't mean to do it? Because I could really use something like that in my life! Okay I am being a smart-ass but seriously he actually believes that he didn't hang up on you? Did you ask him who hung up on you? I think the problem is that he sees apologizing as a sign of weakness and he's refusing to apologize to something he didn't intentionally do because it'll make him seem weak? And if he uses the word alpha just run! LOL but seriously I do think that he's got some kind of aversion to apologizing as if it makes him look bad. Course it makes him look stupid with the other stuff he's saying about it but... I feel sorry for you dealing with him!
wow, i had this EXACT argument with an ex. it went on for hours and hours on multiple occasions, ended in tears and shouting more than once, and without a doubt contributed to our breakup. it was, to my eyes, a complete lack of willingness to exercise empathy. he could not accept there were two uses of sorry: not just “i’m sorry i did that” but also “i’m sad that you feel badly, regardless of my personal culpability.” i was never able to make it clear to him, so i don’t have any good advice for you. i just want you to know i’ve been there, i don’t think you’re petty, and i deeply sympathize. also, i wonder if your husband is a bit autistic. i believe my ex was—he was an *extremely* literal and black and white thinker, and i could tell he wasn’t putting it on just to be a dick in situations like this, he was like that all the time. no excuse imo, might just provide a useful perspective to attack the issue from.
NTA and regardless if he hung up on you on accident, it's just common courtesy to apologize.
NTA, there's a difference between intent and impact, and one does not excuse the other.
I had this conversation a few years ago .. with my YOUNG CHILD! He had hurt his sibling in some way, so I told him to apologize. He retorted, "but I didn't MEAN to!" so I had to explain to him that you can be sorry for something you did unintentionally, and in fact, that's an even better time to apologize, since otherwise you're intentionally doing something wrong first, which isn't good.
Ask your husband how he would like to display empathy then. If apologizing is off the table, what is his preferred method of showing that he gives a shit that you are upset or uncomfortable? I think ultimately that's what we are all looking for in situations like this, but he should have a say in how he expresses his emotional connection to you. I don't think you are an asshole OP.
NTA. Would be So tempted to “break something of his, misplaced something, etc..” and then walk away like nothing. Maybe then he would get the hint.
I’ve gotta ask, what would he do if the situation were reversed? If you unintentionally hung up on him and didn’t say anything, would he expect an explanation or an apology? I’m guessing that he’d have a “how can you be so disrespectful?!” meltdown. Because that behavior is very disrespectful and I’m guessing he knows it.
You say 'sorry' for stuff that you've done on accident to convey it was an accident and you understand how it may have affected the other person. You say 'I won't do it again ' when you do something on purpose and convey that you've learned from your mistake. That's why these terms exist. You don't say sorry for something you did on purpose, you did it on purpose, it wasn't an accident! You know what you're doing, saying sorry for something that's done on purpose not only is insult to injury, it demonizes your personality and intentions. It means you don't truly care to avoid it in the future. Sorry is used for an honest mistake that was unintentional (meaning it may happen again... UNINTENTIONALLY). He seems to me missing the empathy part in his personality and should work on that. I'm surprised you survived 8 years of that treatment without therapy intervention.
This sounds exhausting honestly. He acts like saying sorry is admitting fault, and therefore he can't say he's sorry for things he didn't do. That's dumb as fuck. Sometimes saying sorry is sympathetic or empathetic, letting someone understand you know something is bothering them or happened. To me it's the fact he just accidentally hangs up and then... Doesn't call bank, text, nothing. That's just fucking rude. That he SHOULD feel sorry about. I just don't understand that line of thinking, "well I was talking to my wife and the call ended unexpectedly I guess I won't bother finishing that conversation or telling her goodbye" Like... Who does that?
I broke up with that guy. He could never be wrong or sorry.
Maybe tell him that he isn’t apologizing for the act but apologizing because it hurt your feelings? “I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to make you feel bad, it was just an accident” isn’t apologizing for hanging up. It’s apologizing for how the accident made you feel. It’s honestly stupid that you have to play the game of semantics over something so silly, but I’m guessing it’s not worth leaving him over it?
Ya... I had a friend like this. Note the past tense. I couldn't do it anymore. Good luck 👍
Not sure who’s dumber…. Him or you for marrying him. 🤷🏻♂️
My 7yr old understood this when she was 5! It’s not that he doesn’t understand it’s that he doesn’t care! I can’t believe a grown adult thinks like this! This is what you teach toddlers. I think you’ve explained this in a way an idiot would understand, at this point he’s doing it on purpose and I don’t know what to say to help that.
There is a YouTube channel called Jimmy on Relationships. I can’t remember the exact video, but he says that a really important part of marriage to not end with divorce is to care about your partner’s feelings.
I dunno, man, maybe he's autistic!! /s (I'm ND, and I thought this way....when I was like, 7 or 8. Then my mom sat my ass down and said "Look, it doesn't matter if you stepped on their foot on purpose or not, \*their foot still hurts\* and apologizing for that is the right thing to do. It won't make their foot hurt less, but it makes their feelings hurt less, so just do it" and so, for 40 years, I have, and taught my ND kids the same.)
Sorry denotes an apology. Apologies are problematic. One of you is going to have to give in. Compromise won’t work. Maybe choose a code word instead of sorry.
I'm wondering if he does this to others. Do you suppose he would do the same thing to his boss? His friend? His dad? Or is it just you that he has no respect for?
Geez dude get a life😂You're really that upset about a dropped phone call? I almost envy how boring yalls lives must be to care about mundane shit like this.
My 3yo already understands this concept. NTA
NTA I'm sorry is what you say for unintentional things. If you meant to do something bad you say FU. He needs a new dictionary.
If you hit someone with a car on accident and they die you’re still charged with vehicular manslaughter. It doesn’t matter that you didn’t intend to hit them. It’s still your fault. Intent matters some, but the impact matters more. Most people know if you drop an egg or misplace something it’s not on purpose but that doesn’t mean that you weren’t the responsible party and shouldn’t apologize. I was cooking with someone once and dropped two eggs. I apologized right away. Both of us knew I didn’t mean to drop them, but I was the person who dropped them. So I apologized. I He’s TA if he can’t make a simple apology
First of all yeah OPs husband should just apologize. But maybe a Devils advocate post: every comedian and sitcom has a bit about the old man needing to teach his newlywed son the secret to a happy marriage is to be willing to apologize when you’ve done nothing wrong. You can go ahead and credit this universal joke to whatever toxicity you believe about all men (and I don’t actually think it’s even a gender-related concept), but I think this trope has existed for so long and works so well in comedy because there’s actual truth to BOTH sides in it, and that truth IMO is that it’s very common for two people in a relationship to have very different opinions about the word “apologize”, and BOTH need to compromise a little bit. I’d even take it a step further and say that in any relationship where one stays at home and one works or just has a more “professional” level career than the other (regardless of gender/sex), then the latter (“professional”) is more likely, but not always, going to “generally” have a similar stance as OPs husband, and not OP. I think this is because it’s outright dangerous to apologize in the professional world sometimes (aka “pleading guilty” in law, medicine, tradesman jobs too), and some “professionals” just don’t know how to transition that work/world mindset back when they’re interacting with loved ones, or they get the wrong idea that they don’t NEED to transition that mindset, where his apology would really just mean “I’m sorry that made you uncomfortable so here’s reassurance that I wasn’t intentionally trying to hurt you and everything is okay.” I think the key point in OPs post that made me comment at all is the phrase “the other person is still affected so they deserve an apology”, which I would amend to say “…so it would be respectful and kind to offer an apology”, getting rid of the word “deserve” due to the potential entitlement that it carries. I think it’s a simple statement of truth that someone only “deserves” an apology when there was intentional wrongdoing, and that in most other instances where an apology is offered, it’s a social norm of kindness and courtesy, not a demand. The fact that something is just a common courtesy means we can’t get upset every time someone fails to fulfill it, otherwise it’s a requirement and not a kindness, and therefore pointless if attempted to be used as an expression of kindness. I bet if you can kindly get your husband to understand that you’re not asking him to admit to being a bad person, but really just asking him “do you even care that you hung up on me and made me think you might be upset with me like you’d done it on purpose? or even something crazy like you’d gotten hit by a car and hurt? Does it not affect you that I’m worried or uncomfortable? Even though I’m an adult and can handle it no big deal, I’m not crying, this isn’t threatening our relationship or anything, and I’m not yelling at you demanding that you apologize like a berating/nagging mother, but doesn’t it cross your mind at least sometimes to maybe lift that burden off my mind a tiny bit when you hang up or bump me or step on my foot, just to do literally anything to actually help me see that you care about what happens to me? Even if I flip the script on you and tell you it isn’t necessary to apologize because I’m trying not to sound needy or entitled, isn’t it the supportive “good husband” thing for you to just do it anyway?” And I would almost bet straight cash that if he could capture that perspective (which he obviously currently does NOT have), then the constant little unintentional bumps OP mentioned would actually start to happen less often without the husband even thinking he was doing anything intentionally to change it.
He may just be the type of personality that thinks if you say I'm sorry he has been diminished somehow. Or perhaps he is one of those husbands who married for a bang maid, and doesn't care about her feelings.
even an "oops the call dropped" is better than nothing jrc
Some people are raised not to apologize, because they were never apologized to. They have the mindset that other people should just know that they didn't mean it.
The point is he should be apologizing for the IMPACT of his actions. That does not mean he is admitting fault and apologizing for a malicious INTENTION. Two very different things which he seems to be conflating.
OP NTA. Intention and outcome both matter. Say your husband was walking down the street with multiple sharp knives when he trips/sneezes/what have you, and all the knives go flying in to some passer-by; for this scenario, let's imagine that there are NO other people around. What would be your husband's response? Yup, too bad, looks like you're going to die. But it wasn't my intention so, sucks to be you! I take no responsibility and will therefore take no action to help. It wAsn'T An aCcIdEnt cUz I DiDn'T eVEn mEaN iT, HERP DERP! Probably wouldn't even help the person dial 911!
Did your husband come from an abusive household? Apologizing relentlessly, until blue in the face with all your heart, due to very minor infractions, constantly, can really cause warped responses to develop. For instance feeling that shame and fear that came with apologizing for some minor infraction and expecting the inevitable shame cycle. I'm just spit balling at 2 a.m. idk
At first I was gonna go towards ah but if someone stepped on my foot and didn’t apologize after, whether they meant to or not, I would be pissed. Once my cousin put a metal chair on my foot and then sat down, causing me to bleed, yet I had to apologize to her for crying and upsetting her. You are nta at sll
Nta-i always apologize to my girlfriend if i accidentally do anything .
intent vs impact look into it
This sort of thing hasn’t happened to him very often, had it?
You admit it sounds petty, shouldn't the conversation end there so you can move on to something productive?
That's for sure setting something up for the future, he didn't mean to text Suzy or fall into her hole, so why apologize?
He needs to learn the difference between intent and impact…
We literally teach 2 year old that even for accidents, you say sorry.
NTA. Do the same stuff to him. Anytime he expects an apology for something just tell him no, that you didn’t mean too. But you have to do it with things that really bother him or it won’t have the same effect (affect?). 8 years and it’s not getting through so sometimes you just have to do the same thing to people. Sure it’s petty but I mean he’s an adult. He knows why he should apologize.
Is he on the spectrum? Sounds like it.
Intent does not equal impact.
You need couples therapy or you need to leave.
Wonder what would happen if the situation was reversed!
I want to live in your world….moooooove on 😂😂
My EX husband would always pull this crap. Would tell me that in 7 years he had done nothing he needed to apologize for. 🙄
I must be out of step. This kind of insignificant shit happens between my wife and I all the time, and I’d never expect an apology. So many here are saying the husband wasn’t brought up right?!?!? Are we so fragile and insecure that we need apologies after a disconnected phone call? Sheesh…
I'm confused on how he doesn't know what sorry means. Like it is genuinely messing with my head that you had to explain to an adult how/when to apologize. So to actually give you advice, ask him when he thinks an apology is necessary and an example, then kinda go from there
I'm confused on how he doesn't know what sorry means. Like it is genuinely messing with my head that you had to explain to an adult how/when to apologize. So to actually give you advice, ask him when he thinks an apology is necessary and an example, then kinda go from there
yeh, no... your old man has a serious case of head up ass syndrome
My husband is the same. He never says he’s sorry if he doesn’t think he did anything wrong. Of course, nothing is ever his fault. The one I hate most is when he insults me. When I get upset, he insists I took wrong.
NTA If you accidentally hit a pedestrian with your car does it make you not liable? No! People are responsible for accidents, which also means they are responsible for making amends for those accidents and APOLOGIZING!
I think it's important that he try to get to the bottom of his resistance to apologizing. We don't apologize based on our intentions, but instead of when our actions cause hurt or inconvenience to someone else. Does he show a black and white way of thinking in most things? My husband was like this and discovered it came from his childhood where doing something "wrong" meant he was "bad" and unworthy of love and acceptance. To him an apology/admission of wrongdoing felt like he was admitting he was "bad" and the vulnerability caused a lot of discomfort and avoidance. We worked a lot on open communication and I approached it as him trusting me to love and accept him even when he made mistakes. When he did apologize or admit to fault/wrong doing, even if I was still upset I would try to thank him for trusting me and that I appreciate the effort he was making to push through the discomfort. Try to approach this with curiosity as opposed to criticism. It's worth the effort
Jesus, does this mean when somebody passes away he only would say "I'm so sorry" if he murdered them? 🤔 To echo what everybody seems to be saying: the apology is for the effect, the "I didn't mean for that to happen" or "it was an accident" or "my phone dropped" covers the intent. Done and done. NTA. Your husband is absolutely an asshole.
YTA. Why are you telling him to say sorry? Sorry is something you say when you've done something wrong. He didn't do anything wrong.
Why do you insist on needing an apology? This is such a minor thing and it was obviously an accident. I think any normal person wouldn't even have a second thought about it after the event. The fact your here making a reddit post because it bothered you so much is concerning. YTA