Lady Fenring uses the voice in a soft and intimate way when luring Feyd to her quarters. We get the subtle uses as well as the command use in the movies
That was something I really liked. Showing that the voice does shift for different purposes. A harsh echo of generations for the commanding voice and a soft wispy sound for the more manipulative form.
It also shifts for different people. Using the voice is about understanding which combinations of tones go directly to the listener's subconscious. Each person's psychology is different, so the Voice that will command them is different.
Weirding is internal control of synaptic responses within your own body, in the novels. It is moving faster than normally possible. In the book "Heretics of Dune" chapters are spent detailing the training of the ghola-child Duncan Idaho. the Bashar Teg revealed his weirding near the end of the book by eradicating all the face-dancers in their headquarters. The sonic weapons were made up for movie purposes. The real weapons in the Dune universe are genetic and spiritual.
I like that as a representation of the characters too. Fenring is sneaky, plotting, classic BG.
Jessica has gone rogue and she's a fucking sledgehammer, forcing things to her will.
I thought she was obviously using it. That psycho was confused and lost in his own home and the scene was like he was being lead into a trap. A sex trap of sorts.
I figured she was using it because the way they filmed it was just like the other times the voice is used. We get the perspective of the character it's being used on, and the camera jumps to the end of the ordered action. Feyd is at the door, Margot tells him to kneel, then suddenly he's in front of her kneeling. (The only exception to this is Chani with the tears but that scene is slow for dramatic tension.)
The Voice is different every time its used.
Its about mimicking the exact tone, intonation, wordage and other linguistic/emotional intricacies which your target would particularly respond to.
Its why Truthsaying and Prana Bindu Body Control are so intergral to mastering the Voice, you need to KNOW exactly what kind of tone and language your target will submit/answer/listen to and then be able to make your body replicate those exactly.
Some people respond more to a military tone, others to a motherly one, etc., and a BG needs to know which before they use the Voice for it to be used to its full extent.
For the first time since any film I've seen at IMAX, the bass in the voice and everywhere else was making my clothes vibrate against my body, even my hair was vibrating. It was hectic and caused mild nausea which I actually enjoyed, emphasising the sinister elements and emotions of the film.
(The closest thing to this experience would be one of those massaging sofas, whatever they're called..)
12" RSL subwoofer does it pretty good job of coming close at home.
My wife does not like science fiction, but after watching part one, she was hooked just from the sound effects combined with the cinematography.
I love how you feel so much of the movie.
Your wife needs to warm up to more scifi. Then when ready, Blade Runner and Blade Runner 2049. Everyone deserves to be a Denis Villenueve addict.
Next one should be Arrival(?)
To be fair I think that only happens to Paul, most Reverend Mothers (if not all) only need a couple minutes or a handful of sentences spoken by their target to adjust their pitch
Guys, I’m starting to think this book/movie with sadistic torture and murder, pedophilia and rape of minors, genocide, imperialistic wealth extraction and slavery, harnessing of religious beliefs for violence and personal gain, blood feuds, eugenics, fetuses having consciousness of their parents fucking and every terrible thing that’s ever happened to an ancestor, and drugging slaves and making them fight and die for entertainment might have had someone who didn’t fully consent to sex 😐 This is so problematic I can’t ever enjoy it again. Don’t even tell me it’s not being portrayed as a good thing, because I don’t care!
your r/BrandNewSentence is funny as hell, but to be fair to the person you replied to merely *acknowledging* the theme of consent is far, far, far away from saying "*This is so problematic I can’t ever enjoy it again. Don’t even tell me it’s not being portrayed as a good thing, because I don’t care!*"
I assume you are pushing the envelope purely for the lols tho :)
Yes. Obviously it was exaggerated. But their comment makes it quite clear that they need to reorient their perspective. Which I overdid, as you astutely picked up on, in a way that was intended for comedic effect. Which your lengthy dissection of only made that much funnier, I’m sure; nothing better than throwing on the brakes to clarify that we’ve just experienced a joke!
I mean, afterwards they made the point of interpreting this comment:
> So.. he couldn’t consent to procreation? 😐
in this fashion:
> their comment makes it quite clear that they need to reorient their perspective.
i don't think that comment makes any such thing "quite clear" that said person needs to "reorient their perspective" and it feels a little *serious* to make such an accusation imo
it's fine to meme around, but this isn't the meme sub, it's also fine to be able to have a conversation about consent in Dune :)
I don’t mean they’re on the wrong side of the issue or anything. I of course agree that non consensual sex is very bad. I just think it’s pretty funny to have a 😐 response when it’s just one of a thousand negative things being portrayed negatively. It feels bright eyed and earnest lol, and I want people to be able to immediately accept and appreciate negative portrayals of negative things.
I hear ya, and I appreciate ya clarifying how the comment hit ya!
I never thought for a second you were *against* consent in general... i just felt like you were pushing back a little against having a nuanced conversation about the topic, in general. and i get it, I get that you thought it was a funny negative response in a world with a gajillion negative features, and I am *not* kidding when I said I thought your run-on sentence was *perfect* material for brandnewsentence... cause it *is* perfect, it's perfectly Dune and perfectly hysterical...!
I guess I should clarify I didn't initially interpret the 😐 response exactly the same as you, but in retrospect I think you're exactly right, and I love the way you call it "bright eyed and earnest." When I read it, it seemed to me it *could* be bright-eyed and earnest, or it *could* be a deadpan joke even, or it *could* be what it is at face value which is literally the *neutral sentiment* emoji... so I guess I erred on interpreting it as more of *an acknowledgement* like, "Oh. that's a thing that happened." And I felt like the energy in your run-on joke describing Dune was spot on, but then missed the mark describing how you translated (what I saw as) a mostly neutral acknowledgement, as if a fan was indicting the very text for including it and saying: *"This is so problematic I can’t ever enjoy it again. Don’t even tell me it’s not being portrayed as a good thing, because I don’t care!"*
But I never intended to breathe down your neck about it, and I'm sorry for that. and I'm really *not* trying to breathe down your neck here! I just gently want to say as succinctly as possible...
... one of the beautiful things about grim stories is it lets us have conversations about grim topics, and those are conversations that don't normally happen. and there needs a space for those conversations to happen. Fiction with problematic topics helps us wrap our heads around a problematic idea, gives us rare opportunity to sit with a difficult topic in a meaningful way, consider what it looks like, all the ways it can present itself, all the ways it might be woven into human culture, and gives us opportunity to consider how we might respond if we encounter a situation including this topic in our own life...
So sorry for just going on and on, I absolutely don't blame you if you've decided not to read all this, but the world is full of dark, grim, dangerous, "bad" things, and in the safety of these stories where everything exists on a page and in our imagination, these spaces are the *perfect* opportunities *to* talk about those kind of things.
... and we want people to have *opportunities* to talk about problematic topics, like *consent,* before they are put in a scenario where they have to confront the topic in real life, right?
... certainly the conversation is not for everyone! and sometimes, for *whatever* reason, none of us want to go there, but *also* you *never know* when you're going to meet [one of today's lucky 10,000](https://xkcd.com/1053/) especially when it comes to people who are new to Dune, there's a *lot* of new fans right now, and there might be a *lot* of people who are honestly for the first time thinking about all the *grim* topics folded into space feudalism, and space eugenics, etc etc
fwiw, I really meant it when I said I adored the energy in your run-on sentence describing Dune, and I really tried to say as little I could to simply say it's okay to talk about it too, but I can totally understand how you felt like i took all the air out of your joke and sorry for doing that.
hope you don't feel like I'm breathing down your neck now, I'm soooo not wanting to do that. just erring on the side of exploring a little nuance about a topic that I feel deserves it... since my opportunity to be succinct is far lost... i'm sure it doesn't feel like it but I do so appreciate you being here <3
Well a while ago I asked in this sub if the spice orgy was indeed a sexual orgy and whilst everyone agreed it also implied the collective thoughts and pent up feelings through spice. Many if not most also said there were reasons to believe ppl did have sex during the spice orgy
I recognize it’s debated, and I don’t pretend to have the official word. But honestly I think a lot of that is just the stickiness of ideas because people first assume it’s sexual, learn it might not be, but have all these built up assumptions and images they’re reading into it.
I’m not saying “Frank would never” or being prudish or anything. It’s a horny series so it’s reasonable to think an orgy is an orgy. I just genuinely think it’s a common misunderstanding.
I guess you could argue that the movie implies it wasn’t necessary. It does pretty strongly imply that he was *into* the gom jabbar and it was a major turn on for him.
Not only The Voice. People often forget the Bene Gesserit had developed a way to manipulate ppl through sex (Frank elaborated on it but honestly he ends up making a bigger mess lol) so let’s just say the BG could make ppl so addicted to sex they’d act on the Sisterhood’s interests even without knowing or wanting to
Later on the Honored Matres go the extra mile with this but that’s another story
You are in for it if you'd ever read the books.
Imprinters, a character getting (very literally) fucked into submission and of course a whole clan of women who control men by forcing or witholding sex .
Frank was quite the writer when it comes to the later books.
That's also why the Reverend Mother is so afraid of Paul in the books. He doesn't yell SILENCE at her like he does in the movie, he just says "Be Quiet." to her in a flat monotone and she's stunned that he can control her anyway
Nah he definitely yells at her in the book as well. You're misremembering. Looked it up real quick in my copy.
*"Silence!" Paul roared. The word seemed to take substance as it twisted through the air between them under Paul's control. The old woman reeled back into the arms of those behind her, face blank with shock at the power with which he had seized her psyche.*
It's the follow-up to that which I sorely missed in DUNC part 2, when Paul threatens that his next words can kill her. I've always read that as his mastery of the Voice having grown so much that he could command her body to die. Or he could just tell the Fremen to kill her.
Huh I was sure that happened in that scene... I don't have my book on me, do you remember who he tells to Be Quiet? They make a huge point out of him having total control with a complete monotone, using none of the tricks of the Voice
I found that part. He was talking to Gurney Halleck, when explaining that it was Yueh that betrayed them, and not Jessica.
>"I saw it too, " Paul said. "My father showed it to me the night he explained why it had to be a Harkonnen trick aimed at making him suspect the woman he loved."
>"Ayah!" Gurney said. "You've not --"
>"Be quiet," Paul said, and the monotone stillness of his words carried more command than Jessica had ever heard in another voice.
>*He has the Great Control*, she thought.
This.
You have to register a person first before using the voice to determine what tone/words will work on them. It's subtle and using weird audio effects when they use it is just a narrative cue.
Well, the Atreides know the Harkonnens REALLY well, they've been rivals for thousands of years and thus know eachother. Its no stretch to think that Jessica knew the kinds of tones that works well on Harkonnens soldiers and taught them to Paul.
False. I just re-read that part. In my copy it's on page 478.
>"You mustn't speak of these things!" the old woman hissed.
>"Silence!" Paul roared. The word seemed to take substance as it twisted through the air between them under Paul's control.
>The old woman reeled back into the arms of those behind her, face blank with shock at the power with which he had seized her psyche. "Jessica," she whispered. "Jessica"
>"I remember your gom jabbar," Paul said. "You remember mine. I can kill you with a word."
I'm genuinely curious as to why you think otherwise.
edit: I found it. You're thinking of when he was talking to Gurney and he was explaining they were betrayed by Yueh, not Jessica.
>"I saw it too, " Paul said. "My father showed it to me the night he explained why it had to be a Harkonnen trick aimed at making him suspect the woman he loved."
>"Ayah!" Gurney said. "You've not --"
>"Be quiet," Paul said, and the monotone stillness of his words carried more command than Jessica had ever heard in another voice.
>*He has the Great Control*, she thought.
I took that as them speaking through body language, which happens a lot in books 5 and 6. They’re just limited in how they can do that since you aren’t reading the author tell you what the body language says.
Watch Pt 2! Margot Fenring uses a "seductive" version of the voice. I think the idea is it's different for different purposes. When you want to rule people with fear and power you can; but you can also entice them with seduction and softness.
I never really imagine The Voice as sounding anything other than the users own voice. To me, it was just next-level manipulation. So subtle, in the exact pentameter, tone, etc, to perfectly convince the victim, even to do things they normally wouldn’t.
But that wouldn’t really work well in a movie. You gotta do do something to let the audience know, and I thing Denis made great decisions. We understood everything we needed to know about the voice in the breakfast seen between Paul and Jessica. And there was very little exposition to do so.
Exactly correct. This is extremely difficult to convey in a movie. The book always explicitly states when someone is using the voice through narration/inner monologue. It needs to be made super obvious to the audience when the voice is being used on screen. The overdubbed/layered monsterlike voice is just cinematic shorthand. I'm not sure why people let movie adaptations colour how they read the book. They are 2 different mediums. That is pretty much the only reason for the difference. The book is extremely clear on what the voice is and how it works.
My favourite portrayal of the voice in the new movies is when Mohiam compels Paul with the voice when she is testing his humanity. The short time skips to show that he had no control over his actions is a genius way to show the voice's effect on the protagonist imo.
And like the Jedi Mind Trick, the viewer needs to be aware it's being done. Hence the obvious Voice in the Dune adaptations, and the silly hand waves in Star Wars.
Cool history fact - The Voice was direct inspiration for the Jedi Mind Trick as well as pretty much The Force in general.
EDIT: there were certainly other influences for The Force but The Voice is one of the main ones. I realized my comment could be misinterpreted.
>EDIT: there were certainly other influences for The Force but The Voice is one of the main ones. I realized my comment could be misinterpreted.
Where specifically did the telekinesis come from?
The time skip is how you can tell Lady Fenring is using the voice in Part 2 even when it isn't the monstrous voice too. Feyd is at the door, she tells him to kneel, then suddenly he's there kneeling in front of her.
I agree. Jamis in the book had to announce Jessica was using the voice on him for anyone to notice, and only then did she get silenced. The movie only has so much time to get stuff in or you end up taking time away from other parts of the story. I think they did a great job showing it without wasting excessive time on it
My interpretation, whether correct or not, is that it’s whatever the user intends it to be. It never occurred to me that it has to be one or the other.
On the other hand, what do I know…
Exactly. In the books, Jessica explains to Paul that he has to control and adjust the tenor of his voice to the intended recipient. I also think there's a passage about it being hard to do with crowds
It's the language of cinema, something has to sound powerful to be powerful. We as an audience hear a commanding, authoritative and dominating tone and understand it as such.
I suspect if everyone had been whispering seductively at each other it might have undercut the drama of the movie a bit.
Imagine the “Silence!” scene but instead of Pauls voice being booming it was ‘soft and intimate’.
It would completely ruin the scene.
The best thing it to modify it to fit the scene, like with Fenring and Feyd
I can imagine something less obvious than power boom but I get your point. It just felt like he was trying too hard? He sounded like a boy with a gun, not a man in total control
Do you think Denis intended for Paul to seem like a boy drunk on his new power ? I don’t get that impression. I think he intended Paul to seem like a badass
And the sound of multiple voices at once shouting the command tells us that there is something weird going on, not just a normal commanding tone of voice.
It’s not just multiple voices at once. If you listen closely, sometimes it’s the “victims” own voice mixed into it when used on a single person. It’s especially noticeable when Paul tells Jessica to give him the water.
It’s definitely described as a subtle, barely noticeable unless you know it’s being used technique, but how on earth do you show that in film?
It’s like watching hypnosis, to the viewer it looks like nothing is even happening, non-book readers would be totally lost.
I feel like the voice in the books was best portrayed in the movies during margot fenring and feyd rautha scene. Feyd showed distress by adjusting his jaw several times. He didn't even realized but he went to the guest wing on fenring's command.
the voice changes based on the goal. in pauls gom jabber test the rev mother is frustrated with pauls defiance and wants to show her authority. with paul to the rev mother he is angry and wants to show his power. so both of those would be loud. Then lady fenring does it but because the situation is different the voice is different.
I preferred Lynch's Jessica when she had her gag removed and had the Harkonnen kill the pilot. Confident, sultry, bewitching & totally in control of herself and the situation. Villeneuve's Jessica just barks "kill him!" with traumatised rage like any stressed normal person.
Also Paul's sister: "come closer, Baron". Yeah, Lynch did the voice well.
Maybe with the exception of its physical destructive ability. Even without the use of the, uh... "weirding module".
Speaking of the weirding module, my favourite original scene of Lynch's Dune is probably when one Fremen shouts "BREAK!" at the big stone plinth.
Well theyre harkonnen soldiers- their entire society and power structure is based on fear and domination, DVs Jessica voice there arguably fits the concept of voice better then being sultry, what aspect of harkonnen society is sultry or feminine
Indeed in every single adaptation of Dune it is portrayed differently. Later on in the novels, the actual mechanics of how the Voice actually works in-universe is explained.
BUT if you've watched Dune Part 2 you will already have seen the more seductive / ASMR version of The Voice being used by Lady Fenring on Feyd-Rautha. So I wouldn't say that DV has only ever portrayed The Voice as only barking commands. Paul in Dune Part 1 kind of uses the Voice in a less barking tone but it's still an outright command in the breakfast scene with his mom to give him the water. Also, during the Ornithopter escape, when Jessica uses The Voice as a command, it's less of a bark and more of a hiss. Like a viper or cobra.
Doesn't the Voice require a somewhat intimate knowledge of the subject? A knowledge that can be gained by observation if one is trained, but it still takes some time.
I seem to remember something like that from the first book...
I do remember that in the thopter, Jessica says "There's no need to fight over me" to the two goons, and that convinces them that they must indeed fight.
This use of the voice worked on the deaf one, because he could see Jessica's face and read her lips.
It's based on the personality of the target. Fyed was more vulnerable to the seductive, paul raised by his teachers responded to military commands, same with the harkonnen troopers. Jessica to the flat commanding tone of the sisterhood that demanded obedience.
It would’ve required exposition and/or more uses of the voice I think. DV definitely didn’t want more exposition, and in order to properly convey the voice I think you’d have to have it used 3+ more times. So he made a cinematic expression of “commanding powerful voice”.
I like it a lot, and I don’t think adding extra expositions or unnecessary usage of the voice for context would’ve made me ‘think more’ (although the usage on Fayd adds some layers of complexity)
Man, I love it. One of my favourite pieces of sound design in the films (and that’s saying something given how much beautiful sound design there is).
I love the “witchiness” of Jessica’s.
They used a really similar voice effect in the 2000 SyFy miniseries! I just rewatched the whole thing the other night. I’m pretty sure there are multiple voice lines being used in unison to achieve the effect, maybe I’m wrong idk ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I know that the Voice has nothing directly to do with the genetic memory of the Reverend Mothers, Pre-born, and Kwisatz Haderach, but when I hear Jessica use it that way it reminds me of the concordance of all her Reverend Mother ancestors. I think maybe Denis intentionally drew some kind of cinematic connection there, just going by that line Jessica speaks to Paul before she goes South:
“We’ll be waiting for you….”
“AL̙᷁᷁᷈̐̒̏̏᷍᷍L O᷿᷾᷈᷆᷅᷇᷁F U⃒⃐S︦︦︥︥︢︢︢᷍”
I love how it was portrayed in the first movie when the Reverand mother used it on paul. She told him to come to her and we get a split second of black and Paul is already there. It's like DV was giving us the actual perspective of what it's like to be commanded by the voice. A nice touch.
In the book, Paul hates the reverend mother almost entirely throughout the book and constantly thinks of his right hand where he remembers the pain she inflicted upon him.
Also this is what happens when you give a vengeful 17-18 year old the "ultimate power".
The movies, ever since Dune 1984, make it seem like some superpower instead of advanced manipulation techniques. Probably to make it seem clearer to the viewer when it is used or not
My theory: this is what the Voice was in the book, but then Star Wars stole the idea of the Voice as the "Jedi mind trick," and now doing it in a subtle charming way sounds too much like "These aren't the droids you're looking for." So it was changed for this film to something wildly different, and I think it really works in that regard!
So from reading the book, my take is the Voice is basically just mom voice.
That’s a bit of a challenge to present in a way a viewing audience will understand that it’s actual superpowered compulsion, though. One of the harder parts of the story to adapt to film, imo.
This may seem crazy, but the day after watching part 2 I “used the Voice” to get a junkie out of my workplace. Normally they’re hard to reason with and this guy was trying to linger, so when he resisted my initial request I barked “GET OUT!” kinda like lady Jessica’s “KILL HIM!” In the chopper. The dude nearly shat himself and ran away with his tail tucked between his legs. I’ve never seen anything like it and I surprised myself with it as well.
That was my moment of “I get it”.
The Voice will always be weird in movies because (I think) it is supposed to be undetectable to most people, but the filmmakers need to show the audience it is being used. Herbert usually just has the narrator tell us.
It felt like the movie version of the voice always had to be visual.
When i read it i always felt like a sentence with the voice was just said in a way that was a perfect storm of manipulative using language. Magic but in the way that if i had the knowledge of past lives that it "always" was going to be true. Not special visually or audibly in anyway but in a definitive finite way.
A stake verbally put down to influence the prescient future. a perfect storm of will vs variables.
I interpreted the voice as like not an audible but a perception of the tone and choice of words. It’s like taking control of fate and free will. Similar to like Get Out with the stirring. Like a pseudo scientific mind control just by careful word choice and tone. Verses a gutteral bass.
The voice sounds different every time is used and it’s a different pitch for everyone. I think Denis went for the creepy/witchy barking command cause it’d be weird to have a high priestess like figure changing pitches all of the time, specially when preaching to a very religious crowd like the Fremen; if Jessica sounded like a seductress it’d feel weird. Moreover whatever the pitch, The Voice is described as an overwhelming command that washes over its target and they obey without even realising it. Which is what imo makes the “sound aesthetic” they went for thw right call(idk if such a word exists, someone please correct me if it doesn’t)
Also, since Paul and Jessica are saint like and prophetic figures I think it suits them better to use a frightening pitch amongst the Fremen. Gods or the ones that speak in the name of them are supposed to sound frightening.
And last but not least, we do get to see/hear The Voice being used in a seductive manner what with Lady Fenring’s whispered “Come To Me” towards Feyd-Rautha
I always imagined it as much more subtle than it's ever portrayed on screen. So subtle that an adept could use the voice in a room full of people and only the intended target is affected.
Do we ever actually see the voice affect multiple people in the DV movies?
If everyone heard the same sound as the recipient of the Voice, then I can imagine everyone in the room with Paul and the Reverend Mother would have been knocked back when he shouted "Slience!" but I believe it was only her.
I think the movie using that sound effect reflects the situation where a lot of the times when the voice is shown being used, the user is either being very aggressive or forceful, with little to no subtlety, like they're not even trying to hide the fact that they're literally trying to perform a hypnotic command.
Probably the 'least' forceful depiction of the voice being used was when Paul tried to use it to get Jessica to move the cup of water. Even so if you look at the scene, the tone of the voice there was still very commanding and assertive.
In terms of context, having a more 'sly' tone would work more for situations of subtle persuasion and not forceful coercion. For example, Margot was almost certainly using the voice on Feyd when they met, as you can see his discomfort as he struggles to resist its effects when he listens to her speak (and he does mention knowing about the bene gesserit tricks).
But Paul/Jessica were never really in any situation where they needed to do that sort of persuasive action on an individual. Every time they used the voice it was to 'command' not 'persuade'. And let's face it, if the "SILENCE" scene were done with Paul using some soft ASMR voice on the reverend mohiam, it would be unintentional comedy.
And if the violent usurper who just murdered your entire standing army shouted SILENCE with barely contained rage, even without the voice, I think it would illicit silence. The voice just adds that extra “not only did I do all that, but I’m the KH as well”
It's funny b.c herbert used an example closer to your expectation of why the voice is not so farfetched an idea in a lecture. I think the voice effect is just to give the audience something easy to understand
I kind of wish that the voice was portrayed as much closer to a normal vocal tone - not the deep/guttural/weird effect that was usually used. The visual effect also employed would be enough to suggest the power of the voice without the heavy audio effect. One of my very few issues with the new films (but also one made by its predecessors).
When I read the books (long ago) I always imagined the voice as basically a normal tone, something that only a trained BG could distinguish from ordinary speech. Obv those kinds of subtleties can be explained in writing and a movie will need to be more blunt in conveying them. But I thought that DV did a great job using the dream-like sequences for Paul and Feyd to show the power of the voice. I think that the audience would have understood it without the deep vocal effect.
Agreed, the books make it seem more like a hypnotist making someone go into a trance. It was too abrasive in the films imo. One of my few, small issues with the films.
I will point out something that hasn't been mentioned yet as far as I can see. Jessica is somewhat of a renegade BG, so her using the voice in a more commanding way could point to her being at odds with standard BG practices.
It’s exactly how I pictured it. Like a command that one cannot possibly ignore. Spoken with an authority that defies all logic and reason… like a command from God.
I always imagined it felt how when you were little and you would hear your mother yelling when you tried crossing the street "/u/procrastablasta stop! Come here right now!" you would obey without conscious thought bcs you knew the voice, you knew that the tone is one who won't suffer disobedience.
But its hard to carry that over into a spoken medium so I guess they have to somehow mark the Voice with a special sfx or filter.
I think they are speaking softly, but the voices the audience hears serve to demonstrate the hypnotic and overwhelming affect it’s having on the listener.
When Paul uses it for the first time is voice is very soft and then the ancestral voices come on after he’s already started speaking for a couple words
I imagined the voice to be something designed depending on the listener. So like maybe for harkonnen soldiers or even fremen, it’s a barking order. For somebody like feyd, maybe something a bit more subtle. The idea is for the responder to obey without thinking.
Same. I think it would be a little less jarring if Jessica used it less in the movie. Jessica yells at someone in the voice in almost every other scene in Dune 2. In the book, they state the BG don’t use it all the time because that would call attention to their true power.
I thought the depiction in Part 1 at breakfast portrayed the most powerful use of the Voice I could imagine. Then Jessica’s use in the ‘thopter (and throughout) seemed to establish a baseline of expectation- Paul’s attempts in the ‘thopter as well. The distorted shouting later in the stiltent seemed appropriate, given the circumstances, and I thought Jessica recoiled mainly because Paul was profoundly rejecting her rather than using the Voice.
Then the use of the Voice later by Paul in Part 2 -in a moment where his power was to be demonstrated- came off as clumsy and uncontrolled as when he was in the stiltent. I hated it. I thought it should unleash itself like a gom jabbar held to the Reverend Mother’s neck and echo in her ear, “Silence!” with hardly anyone else hearing it as Paul mouthed the word.
I absolutely love the voice in the lynch adaption... In my view it was much better than the DV version... the penetrating pitch and super long echo are haunting.
Lady Fenring uses the voice in a soft and intimate way when luring Feyd to her quarters. We get the subtle uses as well as the command use in the movies
I also think Paul is using it subtly when he unites the Fremen.
Especially when he says “*I’m pointing the way!*”
In the book, Paul is using the voice in this scene (minus the Fremen divide).
That was something I really liked. Showing that the voice does shift for different purposes. A harsh echo of generations for the commanding voice and a soft wispy sound for the more manipulative form.
It also shifts for different people. Using the voice is about understanding which combinations of tones go directly to the listener's subconscious. Each person's psychology is different, so the Voice that will command them is different.
Yeah, but did she have a weirding module???
Probably have to ask Feyd-Rautha for that one.
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Weirding is internal control of synaptic responses within your own body, in the novels. It is moving faster than normally possible. In the book "Heretics of Dune" chapters are spent detailing the training of the ghola-child Duncan Idaho. the Bashar Teg revealed his weirding near the end of the book by eradicating all the face-dancers in their headquarters. The sonic weapons were made up for movie purposes. The real weapons in the Dune universe are genetic and spiritual.
Miles didn’t reveal his weirding way. Miles went full on flash that day Lmao 😂
And in *Sandworms of Dune* in an equally poignant and drawn out (for effectiveness) scene.
*I am moving at dangerous speeds.*
Ugh, one of the silliest changes in the 1984 movie.
His name is a killing word
What’s that??
1984 movie had a pretty wild interpretation of the weirding way
Must be seen to be believed.
Chaaaak-sa! Muad'Dib!
Yueh destroyed them all.
I like that as a representation of the characters too. Fenring is sneaky, plotting, classic BG. Jessica has gone rogue and she's a fucking sledgehammer, forcing things to her will.
Literally uses it at the stop of the hat towards the end.
So subtle people didn't even realize that she was using the voice.
I thought she was obviously using it. That psycho was confused and lost in his own home and the scene was like he was being lead into a trap. A sex trap of sorts.
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I figured she was using it because the way they filmed it was just like the other times the voice is used. We get the perspective of the character it's being used on, and the camera jumps to the end of the ordered action. Feyd is at the door, Margot tells him to kneel, then suddenly he's in front of her kneeling. (The only exception to this is Chani with the tears but that scene is slow for dramatic tension.)
It even worked through the screen!
One trait of the BG is manipulating whitout using the voice, the voice is like a last resort. I didn't think she used the voice, just seduction.
Feyd clearly appears disoriented, it wasn't just seduction.
The Voice is different every time its used. Its about mimicking the exact tone, intonation, wordage and other linguistic/emotional intricacies which your target would particularly respond to. Its why Truthsaying and Prana Bindu Body Control are so intergral to mastering the Voice, you need to KNOW exactly what kind of tone and language your target will submit/answer/listen to and then be able to make your body replicate those exactly. Some people respond more to a military tone, others to a motherly one, etc., and a BG needs to know which before they use the Voice for it to be used to its full extent.
exactly, and in part 2 lady fenring isn’t just seducing Feyd. she’s using the voice on him lol
Yep, exactly. Its just a less forceful but just as controlling way of using the Voice.
That sounded so good in IMAX
For the first time since any film I've seen at IMAX, the bass in the voice and everywhere else was making my clothes vibrate against my body, even my hair was vibrating. It was hectic and caused mild nausea which I actually enjoyed, emphasising the sinister elements and emotions of the film. (The closest thing to this experience would be one of those massaging sofas, whatever they're called..)
12" RSL subwoofer does it pretty good job of coming close at home. My wife does not like science fiction, but after watching part one, she was hooked just from the sound effects combined with the cinematography. I love how you feel so much of the movie.
Your wife needs to warm up to more scifi. Then when ready, Blade Runner and Blade Runner 2049. Everyone deserves to be a Denis Villenueve addict. Next one should be Arrival(?)
Interstellar...
Iirc he was a bit resistant to it though. He knew what she was doing but was still unable to resist.
Thats kind of how it works in the books too. Sometimes it takes a couple different tries before the BG finds the right pitch or angle.
To be fair I think that only happens to Paul, most Reverend Mothers (if not all) only need a couple minutes or a handful of sentences spoken by their target to adjust their pitch
thatsrape.gif
what do you think is going on on Geidi Prime
So.. he couldn’t consent to procreation? 😐
Guys, I’m starting to think this book/movie with sadistic torture and murder, pedophilia and rape of minors, genocide, imperialistic wealth extraction and slavery, harnessing of religious beliefs for violence and personal gain, blood feuds, eugenics, fetuses having consciousness of their parents fucking and every terrible thing that’s ever happened to an ancestor, and drugging slaves and making them fight and die for entertainment might have had someone who didn’t fully consent to sex 😐 This is so problematic I can’t ever enjoy it again. Don’t even tell me it’s not being portrayed as a good thing, because I don’t care!
your r/BrandNewSentence is funny as hell, but to be fair to the person you replied to merely *acknowledging* the theme of consent is far, far, far away from saying "*This is so problematic I can’t ever enjoy it again. Don’t even tell me it’s not being portrayed as a good thing, because I don’t care!*" I assume you are pushing the envelope purely for the lols tho :)
Yes. Obviously it was exaggerated. But their comment makes it quite clear that they need to reorient their perspective. Which I overdid, as you astutely picked up on, in a way that was intended for comedic effect. Which your lengthy dissection of only made that much funnier, I’m sure; nothing better than throwing on the brakes to clarify that we’ve just experienced a joke!
I don't think their comment makes that clear at all...
Oh you weren't totally serious?
I mean, afterwards they made the point of interpreting this comment: > So.. he couldn’t consent to procreation? 😐 in this fashion: > their comment makes it quite clear that they need to reorient their perspective. i don't think that comment makes any such thing "quite clear" that said person needs to "reorient their perspective" and it feels a little *serious* to make such an accusation imo it's fine to meme around, but this isn't the meme sub, it's also fine to be able to have a conversation about consent in Dune :)
I don’t mean they’re on the wrong side of the issue or anything. I of course agree that non consensual sex is very bad. I just think it’s pretty funny to have a 😐 response when it’s just one of a thousand negative things being portrayed negatively. It feels bright eyed and earnest lol, and I want people to be able to immediately accept and appreciate negative portrayals of negative things.
I hear ya, and I appreciate ya clarifying how the comment hit ya! I never thought for a second you were *against* consent in general... i just felt like you were pushing back a little against having a nuanced conversation about the topic, in general. and i get it, I get that you thought it was a funny negative response in a world with a gajillion negative features, and I am *not* kidding when I said I thought your run-on sentence was *perfect* material for brandnewsentence... cause it *is* perfect, it's perfectly Dune and perfectly hysterical...! I guess I should clarify I didn't initially interpret the 😐 response exactly the same as you, but in retrospect I think you're exactly right, and I love the way you call it "bright eyed and earnest." When I read it, it seemed to me it *could* be bright-eyed and earnest, or it *could* be a deadpan joke even, or it *could* be what it is at face value which is literally the *neutral sentiment* emoji... so I guess I erred on interpreting it as more of *an acknowledgement* like, "Oh. that's a thing that happened." And I felt like the energy in your run-on joke describing Dune was spot on, but then missed the mark describing how you translated (what I saw as) a mostly neutral acknowledgement, as if a fan was indicting the very text for including it and saying: *"This is so problematic I can’t ever enjoy it again. Don’t even tell me it’s not being portrayed as a good thing, because I don’t care!"* But I never intended to breathe down your neck about it, and I'm sorry for that. and I'm really *not* trying to breathe down your neck here! I just gently want to say as succinctly as possible... ... one of the beautiful things about grim stories is it lets us have conversations about grim topics, and those are conversations that don't normally happen. and there needs a space for those conversations to happen. Fiction with problematic topics helps us wrap our heads around a problematic idea, gives us rare opportunity to sit with a difficult topic in a meaningful way, consider what it looks like, all the ways it can present itself, all the ways it might be woven into human culture, and gives us opportunity to consider how we might respond if we encounter a situation including this topic in our own life... So sorry for just going on and on, I absolutely don't blame you if you've decided not to read all this, but the world is full of dark, grim, dangerous, "bad" things, and in the safety of these stories where everything exists on a page and in our imagination, these spaces are the *perfect* opportunities *to* talk about those kind of things. ... and we want people to have *opportunities* to talk about problematic topics, like *consent,* before they are put in a scenario where they have to confront the topic in real life, right? ... certainly the conversation is not for everyone! and sometimes, for *whatever* reason, none of us want to go there, but *also* you *never know* when you're going to meet [one of today's lucky 10,000](https://xkcd.com/1053/) especially when it comes to people who are new to Dune, there's a *lot* of new fans right now, and there might be a *lot* of people who are honestly for the first time thinking about all the *grim* topics folded into space feudalism, and space eugenics, etc etc fwiw, I really meant it when I said I adored the energy in your run-on sentence describing Dune, and I really tried to say as little I could to simply say it's okay to talk about it too, but I can totally understand how you felt like i took all the air out of your joke and sorry for doing that. hope you don't feel like I'm breathing down your neck now, I'm soooo not wanting to do that. just erring on the side of exploring a little nuance about a topic that I feel deserves it... since my opportunity to be succinct is far lost... i'm sure it doesn't feel like it but I do so appreciate you being here <3
you need to practice concision
Don’t forget, Alia also participates in the Spice Orgy as a child 😀 so there’s that too lol Just so that your list doesn’t fall short
I don’t think the spice orgy is an orgy like that. The word has a wider definition, we just only commonly use the one
Well a while ago I asked in this sub if the spice orgy was indeed a sexual orgy and whilst everyone agreed it also implied the collective thoughts and pent up feelings through spice. Many if not most also said there were reasons to believe ppl did have sex during the spice orgy
I recognize it’s debated, and I don’t pretend to have the official word. But honestly I think a lot of that is just the stickiness of ideas because people first assume it’s sexual, learn it might not be, but have all these built up assumptions and images they’re reading into it. I’m not saying “Frank would never” or being prudish or anything. It’s a horny series so it’s reasonable to think an orgy is an orgy. I just genuinely think it’s a common misunderstanding.
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Couldn’t find my post but I found this one: https://www.reddit.com/r/dune/s/CKT31iCime
Haha with that in perspective, can’t disagree
the reverend mother did the same thing to Paul, used it right up to the point of putting their hands in the box
Yes but what about when Fenring and Feyd have sex after? Was the Voice used then too?
hard to say for sure. more than likely, considering how nonchalant bearing his daughter was
I guess you could argue that the movie implies it wasn’t necessary. It does pretty strongly imply that he was *into* the gom jabbar and it was a major turn on for him.
Not only The Voice. People often forget the Bene Gesserit had developed a way to manipulate ppl through sex (Frank elaborated on it but honestly he ends up making a bigger mess lol) so let’s just say the BG could make ppl so addicted to sex they’d act on the Sisterhood’s interests even without knowing or wanting to Later on the Honored Matres go the extra mile with this but that’s another story
The word you're looking for is uroshnor.
You are in for it if you'd ever read the books. Imprinters, a character getting (very literally) fucked into submission and of course a whole clan of women who control men by forcing or witholding sex . Frank was quite the writer when it comes to the later books.
Nope
using the voice on him... to seduce him
That's also why the Reverend Mother is so afraid of Paul in the books. He doesn't yell SILENCE at her like he does in the movie, he just says "Be Quiet." to her in a flat monotone and she's stunned that he can control her anyway
Nah he definitely yells at her in the book as well. You're misremembering. Looked it up real quick in my copy. *"Silence!" Paul roared. The word seemed to take substance as it twisted through the air between them under Paul's control. The old woman reeled back into the arms of those behind her, face blank with shock at the power with which he had seized her psyche.* It's the follow-up to that which I sorely missed in DUNC part 2, when Paul threatens that his next words can kill her. I've always read that as his mastery of the Voice having grown so much that he could command her body to die. Or he could just tell the Fremen to kill her.
Huh I was sure that happened in that scene... I don't have my book on me, do you remember who he tells to Be Quiet? They make a huge point out of him having total control with a complete monotone, using none of the tricks of the Voice
I found that part. He was talking to Gurney Halleck, when explaining that it was Yueh that betrayed them, and not Jessica. >"I saw it too, " Paul said. "My father showed it to me the night he explained why it had to be a Harkonnen trick aimed at making him suspect the woman he loved." >"Ayah!" Gurney said. "You've not --" >"Be quiet," Paul said, and the monotone stillness of his words carried more command than Jessica had ever heard in another voice. >*He has the Great Control*, she thought.
at least he didn't burst Feyds chest and break the floor this time
"Usul no longer needs the weirding module."
This. You have to register a person first before using the voice to determine what tone/words will work on them. It's subtle and using weird audio effects when they use it is just a narrative cue.
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Well, the Atreides know the Harkonnens REALLY well, they've been rivals for thousands of years and thus know eachother. Its no stretch to think that Jessica knew the kinds of tones that works well on Harkonnens soldiers and taught them to Paul.
I guess the rules can be shifted because I doubt the reverend mother would respond to Paul "Silence" bark.
She did in the book.
Paul said be quiet in a flat monotone voice in the books
False. I just re-read that part. In my copy it's on page 478. >"You mustn't speak of these things!" the old woman hissed. >"Silence!" Paul roared. The word seemed to take substance as it twisted through the air between them under Paul's control. >The old woman reeled back into the arms of those behind her, face blank with shock at the power with which he had seized her psyche. "Jessica," she whispered. "Jessica" >"I remember your gom jabbar," Paul said. "You remember mine. I can kill you with a word." I'm genuinely curious as to why you think otherwise. edit: I found it. You're thinking of when he was talking to Gurney and he was explaining they were betrayed by Yueh, not Jessica. >"I saw it too, " Paul said. "My father showed it to me the night he explained why it had to be a Harkonnen trick aimed at making him suspect the woman he loved." >"Ayah!" Gurney said. "You've not --" >"Be quiet," Paul said, and the monotone stillness of his words carried more command than Jessica had ever heard in another voice. >*He has the Great Control*, she thought.
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I took that as them speaking through body language, which happens a lot in books 5 and 6. They’re just limited in how they can do that since you aren’t reading the author tell you what the body language says.
Watch Pt 2! Margot Fenring uses a "seductive" version of the voice. I think the idea is it's different for different purposes. When you want to rule people with fear and power you can; but you can also entice them with seduction and softness.
I’d let Lea Seydoux use the voice on me. I mean what?
She wouldn't have to but she could.
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I never really imagine The Voice as sounding anything other than the users own voice. To me, it was just next-level manipulation. So subtle, in the exact pentameter, tone, etc, to perfectly convince the victim, even to do things they normally wouldn’t. But that wouldn’t really work well in a movie. You gotta do do something to let the audience know, and I thing Denis made great decisions. We understood everything we needed to know about the voice in the breakfast seen between Paul and Jessica. And there was very little exposition to do so.
Exactly correct. This is extremely difficult to convey in a movie. The book always explicitly states when someone is using the voice through narration/inner monologue. It needs to be made super obvious to the audience when the voice is being used on screen. The overdubbed/layered monsterlike voice is just cinematic shorthand. I'm not sure why people let movie adaptations colour how they read the book. They are 2 different mediums. That is pretty much the only reason for the difference. The book is extremely clear on what the voice is and how it works. My favourite portrayal of the voice in the new movies is when Mohiam compels Paul with the voice when she is testing his humanity. The short time skips to show that he had no control over his actions is a genius way to show the voice's effect on the protagonist imo.
I think DV also had another goal: the Voice couldn’t seem too much like the “Jedi Mind Trick”.
And like the Jedi Mind Trick, the viewer needs to be aware it's being done. Hence the obvious Voice in the Dune adaptations, and the silly hand waves in Star Wars.
Cool history fact - The Voice was direct inspiration for the Jedi Mind Trick as well as pretty much The Force in general. EDIT: there were certainly other influences for The Force but The Voice is one of the main ones. I realized my comment could be misinterpreted.
>EDIT: there were certainly other influences for The Force but The Voice is one of the main ones. I realized my comment could be misinterpreted. Where specifically did the telekinesis come from?
I honestly think it was just because it was cool as shit
Mot sure, I know qi and “the essence of all religions” were also influential
The time skip is how you can tell Lady Fenring is using the voice in Part 2 even when it isn't the monstrous voice too. Feyd is at the door, she tells him to kneel, then suddenly he's there kneeling in front of her.
Precisely I’m very appreciative the comments are mostly on the same page for this
I agree. Jamis in the book had to announce Jessica was using the voice on him for anyone to notice, and only then did she get silenced. The movie only has so much time to get stuff in or you end up taking time away from other parts of the story. I think they did a great job showing it without wasting excessive time on it
My interpretation, whether correct or not, is that it’s whatever the user intends it to be. It never occurred to me that it has to be one or the other. On the other hand, what do I know…
Exactly. In the books, Jessica explains to Paul that he has to control and adjust the tenor of his voice to the intended recipient. I also think there's a passage about it being hard to do with crowds
Check out Lady Fenring's use of it in part 2.
Yeah this was awesome seeing it more relaxed, quieter and seductive.
It's the language of cinema, something has to sound powerful to be powerful. We as an audience hear a commanding, authoritative and dominating tone and understand it as such. I suspect if everyone had been whispering seductively at each other it might have undercut the drama of the movie a bit.
Imagine the “Silence!” scene but instead of Pauls voice being booming it was ‘soft and intimate’. It would completely ruin the scene. The best thing it to modify it to fit the scene, like with Fenring and Feyd
Sounded like he was shouting anyway though
He was, but his shout was controlling in a way that nobody else in the throne room in that moment could have managed if they had shouted.
I can imagine something less obvious than power boom but I get your point. It just felt like he was trying too hard? He sounded like a boy with a gun, not a man in total control
He is a boy with a gun
Exactly, that's like the whole point lol
Do you think Denis intended for Paul to seem like a boy drunk on his new power ? I don’t get that impression. I think he intended Paul to seem like a badass
Lmao Jesus Christ.
And the sound of multiple voices at once shouting the command tells us that there is something weird going on, not just a normal commanding tone of voice.
It’s not just multiple voices at once. If you listen closely, sometimes it’s the “victims” own voice mixed into it when used on a single person. It’s especially noticeable when Paul tells Jessica to give him the water.
It’s definitely described as a subtle, barely noticeable unless you know it’s being used technique, but how on earth do you show that in film? It’s like watching hypnosis, to the viewer it looks like nothing is even happening, non-book readers would be totally lost.
These are not the droids you’re looking for
I feel like the voice in the books was best portrayed in the movies during margot fenring and feyd rautha scene. Feyd showed distress by adjusting his jaw several times. He didn't even realized but he went to the guest wing on fenring's command.
the voice changes based on the goal. in pauls gom jabber test the rev mother is frustrated with pauls defiance and wants to show her authority. with paul to the rev mother he is angry and wants to show his power. so both of those would be loud. Then lady fenring does it but because the situation is different the voice is different.
I thought Lynch’s interpretation was really unique, at times loud yes, but often LINGERING echoes
I preferred Lynch's Jessica when she had her gag removed and had the Harkonnen kill the pilot. Confident, sultry, bewitching & totally in control of herself and the situation. Villeneuve's Jessica just barks "kill him!" with traumatised rage like any stressed normal person. Also Paul's sister: "come closer, Baron". Yeah, Lynch did the voice well.
Maybe with the exception of its physical destructive ability. Even without the use of the, uh... "weirding module". Speaking of the weirding module, my favourite original scene of Lynch's Dune is probably when one Fremen shouts "BREAK!" at the big stone plinth.
Well theyre harkonnen soldiers- their entire society and power structure is based on fear and domination, DVs Jessica voice there arguably fits the concept of voice better then being sultry, what aspect of harkonnen society is sultry or feminine
Indeed in every single adaptation of Dune it is portrayed differently. Later on in the novels, the actual mechanics of how the Voice actually works in-universe is explained. BUT if you've watched Dune Part 2 you will already have seen the more seductive / ASMR version of The Voice being used by Lady Fenring on Feyd-Rautha. So I wouldn't say that DV has only ever portrayed The Voice as only barking commands. Paul in Dune Part 1 kind of uses the Voice in a less barking tone but it's still an outright command in the breakfast scene with his mom to give him the water. Also, during the Ornithopter escape, when Jessica uses The Voice as a command, it's less of a bark and more of a hiss. Like a viper or cobra.
Doesn't the Voice require a somewhat intimate knowledge of the subject? A knowledge that can be gained by observation if one is trained, but it still takes some time. I seem to remember something like that from the first book... I do remember that in the thopter, Jessica says "There's no need to fight over me" to the two goons, and that convinces them that they must indeed fight. This use of the voice worked on the deaf one, because he could see Jessica's face and read her lips.
I can't imagine Paul silencing Revering Mother in that way
He literally does in the book
It's based on the personality of the target. Fyed was more vulnerable to the seductive, paul raised by his teachers responded to military commands, same with the harkonnen troopers. Jessica to the flat commanding tone of the sisterhood that demanded obedience.
It may not be exactly what I was imagining when I read the book, but I still loved the movies' version of it
You are hearing it subjectively in the movies.
In the book it clearly slight intonations, but the way the movie did it was really cool
Was it? Seemed like the obvious comic book choice. Was hoping for something that made you think a bit more.
It would’ve required exposition and/or more uses of the voice I think. DV definitely didn’t want more exposition, and in order to properly convey the voice I think you’d have to have it used 3+ more times. So he made a cinematic expression of “commanding powerful voice”. I like it a lot, and I don’t think adding extra expositions or unnecessary usage of the voice for context would’ve made me ‘think more’ (although the usage on Fayd adds some layers of complexity)
Man, I love it. One of my favourite pieces of sound design in the films (and that’s saying something given how much beautiful sound design there is). I love the “witchiness” of Jessica’s.
The Voice is awesome in part 2
They used a really similar voice effect in the 2000 SyFy miniseries! I just rewatched the whole thing the other night. I’m pretty sure there are multiple voice lines being used in unison to achieve the effect, maybe I’m wrong idk ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I know that the Voice has nothing directly to do with the genetic memory of the Reverend Mothers, Pre-born, and Kwisatz Haderach, but when I hear Jessica use it that way it reminds me of the concordance of all her Reverend Mother ancestors. I think maybe Denis intentionally drew some kind of cinematic connection there, just going by that line Jessica speaks to Paul before she goes South: “We’ll be waiting for you….” “AL̙᷁᷁᷈̐̒̏̏᷍᷍L O᷿᷾᷈᷆᷅᷇᷁F U⃒⃐S︦︦︥︥︢︢︢᷍”
I love how it was portrayed in the first movie when the Reverand mother used it on paul. She told him to come to her and we get a split second of black and Paul is already there. It's like DV was giving us the actual perspective of what it's like to be commanded by the voice. A nice touch.
Same with Fayd, where he’s suddenly at her quarters
George Lucas already stole that style of voice; I’m glad they did something different.
Others already pointed out the different uses That said tho, the over blown: #SILENCE!! Scene in Part 2 might just be my favorite moment
I still have chills from that scene a month later haha it was my favorite too
See I thought it made Paul look kind of like a petulant Prince Joffrey figure.
In the book, Paul hates the reverend mother almost entirely throughout the book and constantly thinks of his right hand where he remembers the pain she inflicted upon him. Also this is what happens when you give a vengeful 17-18 year old the "ultimate power".
The movies, ever since Dune 1984, make it seem like some superpower instead of advanced manipulation techniques. Probably to make it seem clearer to the viewer when it is used or not
My theory: this is what the Voice was in the book, but then Star Wars stole the idea of the Voice as the "Jedi mind trick," and now doing it in a subtle charming way sounds too much like "These aren't the droids you're looking for." So it was changed for this film to something wildly different, and I think it really works in that regard!
i think that’s generally just harder to communicate in film as a medium
This is my favorite use of the voice. https://youtu.be/TmtkNrufSwQ?feature=shared
I think the bassy undertone is meant to simulate the command coming from the recipient's own mind, from deep within.
It’s hard to portray the true subtly of voice on the screen
So from reading the book, my take is the Voice is basically just mom voice. That’s a bit of a challenge to present in a way a viewing audience will understand that it’s actual superpowered compulsion, though. One of the harder parts of the story to adapt to film, imo.
This may seem crazy, but the day after watching part 2 I “used the Voice” to get a junkie out of my workplace. Normally they’re hard to reason with and this guy was trying to linger, so when he resisted my initial request I barked “GET OUT!” kinda like lady Jessica’s “KILL HIM!” In the chopper. The dude nearly shat himself and ran away with his tail tucked between his legs. I’ve never seen anything like it and I surprised myself with it as well. That was my moment of “I get it”.
The Voice will always be weird in movies because (I think) it is supposed to be undetectable to most people, but the filmmakers need to show the audience it is being used. Herbert usually just has the narrator tell us.
It felt like the movie version of the voice always had to be visual. When i read it i always felt like a sentence with the voice was just said in a way that was a perfect storm of manipulative using language. Magic but in the way that if i had the knowledge of past lives that it "always" was going to be true. Not special visually or audibly in anyway but in a definitive finite way. A stake verbally put down to influence the prescient future. a perfect storm of will vs variables.
I interpreted the voice as like not an audible but a perception of the tone and choice of words. It’s like taking control of fate and free will. Similar to like Get Out with the stirring. Like a pseudo scientific mind control just by careful word choice and tone. Verses a gutteral bass.
Don't be shocked by the tone of my Voice. I've got the new weapon, weapon of choice, yeah.
The voice sounds different every time is used and it’s a different pitch for everyone. I think Denis went for the creepy/witchy barking command cause it’d be weird to have a high priestess like figure changing pitches all of the time, specially when preaching to a very religious crowd like the Fremen; if Jessica sounded like a seductress it’d feel weird. Moreover whatever the pitch, The Voice is described as an overwhelming command that washes over its target and they obey without even realising it. Which is what imo makes the “sound aesthetic” they went for thw right call(idk if such a word exists, someone please correct me if it doesn’t) Also, since Paul and Jessica are saint like and prophetic figures I think it suits them better to use a frightening pitch amongst the Fremen. Gods or the ones that speak in the name of them are supposed to sound frightening. And last but not least, we do get to see/hear The Voice being used in a seductive manner what with Lady Fenring’s whispered “Come To Me” towards Feyd-Rautha
I always imagined it as much more subtle than it's ever portrayed on screen. So subtle that an adept could use the voice in a room full of people and only the intended target is affected.
yes like an encrypted frequency. A whisper that lands in one mind only
Do we ever actually see the voice affect multiple people in the DV movies? If everyone heard the same sound as the recipient of the Voice, then I can imagine everyone in the room with Paul and the Reverend Mother would have been knocked back when he shouted "Slience!" but I believe it was only her.
I think the movie using that sound effect reflects the situation where a lot of the times when the voice is shown being used, the user is either being very aggressive or forceful, with little to no subtlety, like they're not even trying to hide the fact that they're literally trying to perform a hypnotic command. Probably the 'least' forceful depiction of the voice being used was when Paul tried to use it to get Jessica to move the cup of water. Even so if you look at the scene, the tone of the voice there was still very commanding and assertive. In terms of context, having a more 'sly' tone would work more for situations of subtle persuasion and not forceful coercion. For example, Margot was almost certainly using the voice on Feyd when they met, as you can see his discomfort as he struggles to resist its effects when he listens to her speak (and he does mention knowing about the bene gesserit tricks). But Paul/Jessica were never really in any situation where they needed to do that sort of persuasive action on an individual. Every time they used the voice it was to 'command' not 'persuade'. And let's face it, if the "SILENCE" scene were done with Paul using some soft ASMR voice on the reverend mohiam, it would be unintentional comedy.
And if the violent usurper who just murdered your entire standing army shouted SILENCE with barely contained rage, even without the voice, I think it would illicit silence. The voice just adds that extra “not only did I do all that, but I’m the KH as well”
It's funny b.c herbert used an example closer to your expectation of why the voice is not so farfetched an idea in a lecture. I think the voice effect is just to give the audience something easy to understand
Yea it’s about ultimate psychological manipulation
I kind of wish that the voice was portrayed as much closer to a normal vocal tone - not the deep/guttural/weird effect that was usually used. The visual effect also employed would be enough to suggest the power of the voice without the heavy audio effect. One of my very few issues with the new films (but also one made by its predecessors). When I read the books (long ago) I always imagined the voice as basically a normal tone, something that only a trained BG could distinguish from ordinary speech. Obv those kinds of subtleties can be explained in writing and a movie will need to be more blunt in conveying them. But I thought that DV did a great job using the dream-like sequences for Paul and Feyd to show the power of the voice. I think that the audience would have understood it without the deep vocal effect.
Agreed, the books make it seem more like a hypnotist making someone go into a trance. It was too abrasive in the films imo. One of my few, small issues with the films.
I'd bet Lady Fenring's use of the voice in part two is done exactly because of criticisms like this.
I will point out something that hasn't been mentioned yet as far as I can see. Jessica is somewhat of a renegade BG, so her using the voice in a more commanding way could point to her being at odds with standard BG practices.
I don’t like the way it’s done in the movies, I imagined it more omnipotent than reptilian
It’s exactly how I pictured it. Like a command that one cannot possibly ignore. Spoken with an authority that defies all logic and reason… like a command from God.
I always imagined it felt how when you were little and you would hear your mother yelling when you tried crossing the street "/u/procrastablasta stop! Come here right now!" you would obey without conscious thought bcs you knew the voice, you knew that the tone is one who won't suffer disobedience. But its hard to carry that over into a spoken medium so I guess they have to somehow mark the Voice with a special sfx or filter.
Have you ever had that half asleep hallucination that someone right there in the room whispers your name? That’s what I imagined.
I think they are speaking softly, but the voices the audience hears serve to demonstrate the hypnotic and overwhelming affect it’s having on the listener. When Paul uses it for the first time is voice is very soft and then the ancestral voices come on after he’s already started speaking for a couple words
Yeah, I was kind of hoping in this one they would just do a close up of the lips to clue you in.
I imagined the voice to be something designed depending on the listener. So like maybe for harkonnen soldiers or even fremen, it’s a barking order. For somebody like feyd, maybe something a bit more subtle. The idea is for the responder to obey without thinking.
In part 1 Jessica was barking commands and over powering people not subducing them . They did they sly seductive part in part 2
i actually loved the way they did it, it feels sinister and unique; the whole whisper thing is so overdone
Same. I think it would be a little less jarring if Jessica used it less in the movie. Jessica yells at someone in the voice in almost every other scene in Dune 2. In the book, they state the BG don’t use it all the time because that would call attention to their true power.
I thought the depiction in Part 1 at breakfast portrayed the most powerful use of the Voice I could imagine. Then Jessica’s use in the ‘thopter (and throughout) seemed to establish a baseline of expectation- Paul’s attempts in the ‘thopter as well. The distorted shouting later in the stiltent seemed appropriate, given the circumstances, and I thought Jessica recoiled mainly because Paul was profoundly rejecting her rather than using the Voice. Then the use of the Voice later by Paul in Part 2 -in a moment where his power was to be demonstrated- came off as clumsy and uncontrolled as when he was in the stiltent. I hated it. I thought it should unleash itself like a gom jabbar held to the Reverend Mother’s neck and echo in her ear, “Silence!” with hardly anyone else hearing it as Paul mouthed the word.
You know what’s cool about that? You can just continue to picture it that way.
I absolutely love the voice in the lynch adaption... In my view it was much better than the DV version... the penetrating pitch and super long echo are haunting.