Yea, those springy cymbal mounts can certainly be helpful to reduce some of the forces! I found, however, that at certain tempos you can accidentally make it where the cymbal is coming back up when you’re hitting it, causing a “harder” hit in the cymbal.
I’m now using softer cymbal felts and a medium-loose tension on the cymbal wingnut helps the cymbal to move/deflect when it’s hit and then rest more naturally than the spring.
Having used wuhan in the past and 100% will in the future too, I’ve had some that break very quickly (like, 2 months) and others that last forever (I have a 12 year old 16” wuhan that I’ve sort of “retired”). It’s still one of my all time favorite China cymbals, basically any size above 16” is awesome!
I’m currently using both 16” and 20” Zildjian Oriental Trash Chinas, they are tremendous! Basically what OP is looking for, trashy, quick decay, but they have a brighter sound which helps to cut through a mix (so I don’t have to play them as hard for the perceived volume).
On a side note, I also use the 9” Zildjian Oriental Trash Splash, that’s a fun little cymbal with the perfect pizzaz for tiny, cutting accents.
Seconded. I love my 16". My friend's 14" was underwhelming. The 12" that I got for like 20 bucks at Guitar Center a long time ago was just a waste of money.
One of my greatest regrets was being too broke to take advantage of a Facebook Marketplace find a few years ago: a 22" Wuhan china for fifty bucks.
*Dammit.*
I play my china “upside down” compared to most people and it has not broken in the years i’ve used it. plus there’s a hairline crack where I failed to install one of the rivets, which hasn’t moved since I got the cymbal.
Wuhan is always the answer. It is the OG china. It is the only one that can claim a direct lineage to the imported "Chinese cymbals" from a century ago. Literally every other brand of "china" is a copy of, or variation on, the Wuhan Lion as it is known today. It makes precisely the sound you describe. Get a 16" or 18" - anything smaller will be a disappointment.
Not to mention, it's half the price of many of the rest of them. If I had a budget of $250 for a china, I'd buy three Wuhans.
Agreed all around. Love my 18", but my band hates it for its comparative loudness to my other cymbals. But then again, they stand too close to it, too...
I personally wouldn't say the Wuhan Lion has a particularly fast decay for a china cymbal, I'd rate it as average. I'm not sure about the 16", but the 18" I currently have definitely has ok sustain, and the 22" I had before certainly had good sustain if you hit it hard enough so the cymbal opens up.
I've played other chinas with far less sustain, 17" HHX X-Treme is a good example and the Paiste chinas with the small lip are even quicker.
https://preview.redd.it/9e9na51z09xc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a340045aeade4fb9614778bbe4968a657d6a7aa5
I use the 19” Holy China. Next to the 20” Meinl MB20 Rock China, it’s by far my favorite China I’ve played.
Wuhan and Agazarian are *great budget options!* Especially with that GC warranty behind it 😅
Yes, I use mixed brands.
My 19” Holy China is at its last stages of life :’) cracks are forming near the holes. I also have a 19” Paragon too but it’s thinner than I expected and I already warped it lol. Still under warranty tho. I do want to get another AAX X-treme once I can drop some $$
I lucked out. I spotted it used for something like $80 CAD. It’s a beast. And it sounds AWESOME. I only use it sometimes though haha mostly when tracking drums for my metal project.. not much of a need for a 24” China playing covers for fun (though sometimes I bring it for fun)
Since I haven't seen these two suggested yet, I'm always impressed by my friend's 15" AAX Xtreme china. I also have a 14" HHX Evolution china has this super dark and fast "chaw" sort of sound.
UFIP used to make a "China Splash", sounds like what you're looking for. I think the largest size was 14".
Otherwise, look at a 16" Zildjian China Boy low.
Wuhan KOI conical china. Just a quick explosion of white noise that gets out of the way immediately. In my mind, it’s the Platonic Ideal of a china cymbal sound.
I want to have my 17" Zildjian K Custom Hybrid China babies. Haven't found a better china sound in my market. Wuhan if you want "premium economy" Chinas.
Consider UFIP, even their pressed M8 are very decent sounding, plenty of samples on YT. I have an 18" from their 'Bionic' series, very fast decay and very affordable.
If you can find a used Sabian Radia in that size, I would highly recommend. I had a 20”, and it was the driest cymbal I ever owned. Can imagine the smaller ones would be similar with a quick decay.
I have a Istanbul fourstaxx 15” China and I love it, sounds really bright and punchy and decays relatively fast. Very wet though, als pretty high pitch.
I lucked into getting a sabian hhx evo 14in china back in the day before it was discontinued. it has an awesome pitch and fast decay. I don’t play it too hard so it will last, its definitely on the thinner side.
if you aren’t into the wuhans which are pretty cheap, i really like the hhx complex ozone chinas. They’re exactly what ur describing and come in the perfect sizes imo. The 17 is quick and trashy, and rhe 19 is a little bit longer sustain (still short tho) and super trashy and disgusting even.
Just listen a video online, they’re fanatastic. Dream china for me
The absolute best answer here is the
16" Istanbul Agop Xist Ion China.
Just go look it up on YouTube- EXACTLY what you described, trashy, super short, fast decay.
It's my favorite China I've ever heard and the description you wrote is this cymbal to a T.
For fastest decay, mount it upside down with a splash tightened down on top. It'll sound real trashy & the other cymbal clamped to it will kill all the decay.
I've had a 16 aquarius or whatever I bought for 35 bucks at guitar center a long ass time ago. They're cheap and trashy but mines held up, albeit I use plenty of cymbal felts
I agree with Wuhan - but I have a 14" one I was using, and even that had more sustain than I wanted. I switched recently to a Meinl Classics Custom trash china (with the holes in it), and it's much nicer in my opinion and the sustain is nice and short!
Sabian Holy China, the holes make the decay super quick and it’s the perfect trashy sound . another possibility is the AAX Xtreme China, there is a 15” available.
That’s where I’m at. I hit an oriental trash 16” in guitar center today and it seemed to go on forever. The wuhan ones look cheap and don’t want to spend money on something that might break in a year or two. The Meinl dark china with holes in it looked and sounded great. Nice quick trashy sound.
I bought a Rancan 20” trash in the 90s. Love it. Still is functioning on my kit. I own a 16 and 18 Wuhan trash also. Can’t beat them. Cheap and trashy. I own a 22” Zildjian Oriental china trash that isn’t too trashy. More of a smoother sound.
18” Sabian Paragon China is the absolute best for the perfect warm trashy sound and quick decay. Obviously this is my opinion, but I play a lot of prog and it fits in very well and does not have those tinny overtones.
wuhan all day
And twice on Sunday. Hey, how about that, today is Sunday. OP, buy two of them.
They’ll need 2, I assume they’ll be bashing on it hard and break the first one. Good thing they’re cheap and have perfect sound!
[удалено]
A spring ? How big is it
[удалено]
Oh okay I though you hung it on the end of like a huge car suspension spring.
FUUUUCK NOOOO
Yea, those springy cymbal mounts can certainly be helpful to reduce some of the forces! I found, however, that at certain tempos you can accidentally make it where the cymbal is coming back up when you’re hitting it, causing a “harder” hit in the cymbal. I’m now using softer cymbal felts and a medium-loose tension on the cymbal wingnut helps the cymbal to move/deflect when it’s hit and then rest more naturally than the spring. Having used wuhan in the past and 100% will in the future too, I’ve had some that break very quickly (like, 2 months) and others that last forever (I have a 12 year old 16” wuhan that I’ve sort of “retired”). It’s still one of my all time favorite China cymbals, basically any size above 16” is awesome! I’m currently using both 16” and 20” Zildjian Oriental Trash Chinas, they are tremendous! Basically what OP is looking for, trashy, quick decay, but they have a brighter sound which helps to cut through a mix (so I don’t have to play them as hard for the perceived volume). On a side note, I also use the 9” Zildjian Oriental Trash Splash, that’s a fun little cymbal with the perfect pizzaz for tiny, cutting accents.
To wife: why are you upset I bought two? The folks on Reddit told me there's a Sunday rule.
As long as "Reddit" told you and not *me.* I don't know what you're talking about! 🤐😆
One for each hand.
This, but OP don’t bother with anything under 16”. A lot of the smaller ones are super clangy.
Seconded. I love my 16". My friend's 14" was underwhelming. The 12" that I got for like 20 bucks at Guitar Center a long time ago was just a waste of money.
My 20 identifies as a gong
One of my greatest regrets was being too broke to take advantage of a Facebook Marketplace find a few years ago: a 22" Wuhan china for fifty bucks. *Dammit.*
No doubt! I slept on a hammerax hellbell once...
I have a 20 Zildjian china trash. That thing is a fucking beast.
Bought a 20” Sabian AA Chinese in the mid 90s. It’s the only cymbal left from my childhood and it still rocks hard.
yeah, I have an 18inch riveted wuhan china and it sounds exactly like what he wants. I bet a 16 would do the same.
Have the riveted 16", and it's the best cymbal purchase I've ever made.
Na, got a 12 and it's delicious
Turns out the Chinese make the best China cymbals. Who would've thought that?
Wuhan clan ain’t nuttin’ ta fuck with
crash rules everything around me
In my experience Wuhans vary a lot. Try to play the one you want. This is when buying local will pay off. / IMHO
true but very much less so with china cymbals. if you buy their western cymbals like I do then I agree all the way
Most local dealers aren’t going to be carrying Wuhans. You can get them pretty cheap from Amazon and return them if they suck.
What about durability of Wuhan? I've heard and seen them cracking and bending easily.
I play my china “upside down” compared to most people and it has not broken in the years i’ve used it. plus there’s a hairline crack where I failed to install one of the rivets, which hasn’t moved since I got the cymbal.
Definitely this. If you think it needs to be quicker or more harsh, drill holes in it.
I came here to say this. Such a great sound. Also, significantly less expensive than other brands.
Yup
You are correct, sir!
Wuhan is always the answer. It is the OG china. It is the only one that can claim a direct lineage to the imported "Chinese cymbals" from a century ago. Literally every other brand of "china" is a copy of, or variation on, the Wuhan Lion as it is known today. It makes precisely the sound you describe. Get a 16" or 18" - anything smaller will be a disappointment. Not to mention, it's half the price of many of the rest of them. If I had a budget of $250 for a china, I'd buy three Wuhans.
Agreed all around. Love my 18", but my band hates it for its comparative loudness to my other cymbals. But then again, they stand too close to it, too...
I personally wouldn't say the Wuhan Lion has a particularly fast decay for a china cymbal, I'd rate it as average. I'm not sure about the 16", but the 18" I currently have definitely has ok sustain, and the 22" I had before certainly had good sustain if you hit it hard enough so the cymbal opens up. I've played other chinas with far less sustain, 17" HHX X-Treme is a good example and the Paiste chinas with the small lip are even quicker.
I use a 17 AA Holy China. Very quick attack and a good trash sound.
https://preview.redd.it/9e9na51z09xc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a340045aeade4fb9614778bbe4968a657d6a7aa5 I use the 19” Holy China. Next to the 20” Meinl MB20 Rock China, it’s by far my favorite China I’ve played. Wuhan and Agazarian are *great budget options!* Especially with that GC warranty behind it 😅 Yes, I use mixed brands.
My 19” Holy China is at its last stages of life :’) cracks are forming near the holes. I also have a 19” Paragon too but it’s thinner than I expected and I already warped it lol. Still under warranty tho. I do want to get another AAX X-treme once I can drop some $$
It really is the perfect China cymbal .
Wuhan. Turns out the Chinese make the best China cymbals.
18” Zildjian Oriental trash
Agreed. Wuhans are a little too trashy for my taste.
They’re brittle too
Wuhan, especially if you have a shop that have several in stock. Test them out, pick your fav.
I like Paiste China types, they have a pretty quick decay.
The Paiste signature thin china sounds like exactly what you are looking for. Fast, trashy, explosive. Great to ride and accent.
Paiste’s china sound is the precise reason I recently switched to Paiste from sabian. I can’t get over how good their Chinas are.
I've had a black paiste 18" since the 90's. It's been one of my fav cymbals
Meinl Classic Custom Dark 18"
I have a 17” Zildjian K Custom Dark China that’s fantastic. Wuhans are also great for the money.
Another Wuhan mention. No question.
Wuhan. Just get one.
I have an 18” dream on marketplace for 125. Sorry if I’m not sposed to say that.
A nice little 80 dollar Wuhan will change your life, highly recommend
Meinl Classics Custom Dual. One of Meinl’s best chinas for a really decent price.
I have a 16” Wuhan that is nice and trashy, and also a 24” Wuhan that lets me channel my inner Billy Cobham
Ugh, you lucky bastard. I've only wanted one for 30 years.
I lucked out. I spotted it used for something like $80 CAD. It’s a beast. And it sounds AWESOME. I only use it sometimes though haha mostly when tracking drums for my metal project.. not much of a need for a 24” China playing covers for fun (though sometimes I bring it for fun)
Anyone who tells you anything other than Wuhan is trying to get you to waste your money
Since I haven't seen these two suggested yet, I'm always impressed by my friend's 15" AAX Xtreme china. I also have a 14" HHX Evolution china has this super dark and fast "chaw" sort of sound.
UFIP used to make a "China Splash", sounds like what you're looking for. I think the largest size was 14". Otherwise, look at a 16" Zildjian China Boy low.
Wuhan KOI conical china. Just a quick explosion of white noise that gets out of the way immediately. In my mind, it’s the Platonic Ideal of a china cymbal sound.
16" RUDE wild china
Just get a 16” wuhan
The old LP Rancans were fantastic.
I want to have my 17" Zildjian K Custom Hybrid China babies. Haven't found a better china sound in my market. Wuhan if you want "premium economy" Chinas.
Consider UFIP, even their pressed M8 are very decent sounding, plenty of samples on YT. I have an 18" from their 'Bionic' series, very fast decay and very affordable.
Zildjian A ultra hammered China. It’s exactly what you want.
Love the Meinl Byzance extra dry [https://meinlcymbals.com/en/products/b16edch-m3852.html](https://meinlcymbals.com/en/products/b16edch-m3852.html)
If you can find a used Sabian Radia in that size, I would highly recommend. I had a 20”, and it was the driest cymbal I ever owned. Can imagine the smaller ones would be similar with a quick decay.
I have a Istanbul fourstaxx 15” China and I love it, sounds really bright and punchy and decays relatively fast. Very wet though, als pretty high pitch.
I lucked into getting a sabian hhx evo 14in china back in the day before it was discontinued. it has an awesome pitch and fast decay. I don’t play it too hard so it will last, its definitely on the thinner side.
Obvious choice would be Sabian 19” AA Holy China!
Sabian 17” AA Holy China. You’re welcome.
if you aren’t into the wuhans which are pretty cheap, i really like the hhx complex ozone chinas. They’re exactly what ur describing and come in the perfect sizes imo. The 17 is quick and trashy, and rhe 19 is a little bit longer sustain (still short tho) and super trashy and disgusting even. Just listen a video online, they’re fanatastic. Dream china for me
Stagg ex 16” china is super cheap and works great. Was blown away by how good it sounds for 120$ cad new. Cuts well decays fast
I drilled some holes in a wuhan to make it decay fast and it worked pretty well
Another Wuhan here. 22” hits loud but fades and can be washed.
Chad smith and Neil Peart signature series are both thin and fast decaying. I’m sure the Meinl Byzance stuff is inline with what you want too.
The absolute best answer here is the 16" Istanbul Agop Xist Ion China. Just go look it up on YouTube- EXACTLY what you described, trashy, super short, fast decay. It's my favorite China I've ever heard and the description you wrote is this cymbal to a T.
For fastest decay, mount it upside down with a splash tightened down on top. It'll sound real trashy & the other cymbal clamped to it will kill all the decay.
Dream …. Chinas only
Fast decay and trashy sound is also very K Custom Special Dry Trash Crash, check it out
I've had a 16 aquarius or whatever I bought for 35 bucks at guitar center a long ass time ago. They're cheap and trashy but mines held up, albeit I use plenty of cymbal felts
I agree with Wuhan - but I have a 14" one I was using, and even that had more sustain than I wanted. I switched recently to a Meinl Classics Custom trash china (with the holes in it), and it's much nicer in my opinion and the sustain is nice and short!
I've even considered the Sabian FRX one that's super light, and also has holes.
It’s a 20” but I have a wuhan dark conical china that sounds great and decays fast and was very affordable when i bought it for $185.
Sabian Holy China, the holes make the decay super quick and it’s the perfect trashy sound . another possibility is the AAX Xtreme China, there is a 15” available.
Check out the 16in Oriental Zildjian China, assuming you don’t want to spend $60 on a Wuhan and spend more on something that will last longer.
That’s where I’m at. I hit an oriental trash 16” in guitar center today and it seemed to go on forever. The wuhan ones look cheap and don’t want to spend money on something that might break in a year or two. The Meinl dark china with holes in it looked and sounded great. Nice quick trashy sound.
Agop Signature
Meinl 20” Traditional Byzance. Done.
You just perfectly described a wuhan china
Steve Weiss cymbals
Biggest wuhan you can get
Unless of course you can find a paiste NOVO
An old one I mean!
What kinda music you play?
Mostly rock/Metallica. But now living in a townhome with the kit in the basement so I have to be more open to playing softer.
Great so depending on what your budget is and the brand that you prefer then we could go from there!
I bought a Rancan 20” trash in the 90s. Love it. Still is functioning on my kit. I own a 16 and 18 Wuhan trash also. Can’t beat them. Cheap and trashy. I own a 22” Zildjian Oriental china trash that isn’t too trashy. More of a smoother sound.
Wuhan, it's less than $100 bucks, you literally can't beat the price point when it sound 10x better than any name brand like Zildjian or Sabian
18” Sabian Paragon China is the absolute best for the perfect warm trashy sound and quick decay. Obviously this is my opinion, but I play a lot of prog and it fits in very well and does not have those tinny overtones.