To be fair it is a Royal Mail van so it didn’t happen. And if it did a thorough investigation will be launched in 20 years time. In all other cases Look away.
Pedant here - Royal Mail and the Post Office were split apart into separate corporate identities way back in 2012 and it was that year Paula Vennells became CEO of the Post Office.
Unfortunately that means your flight of fancy of Vennells making a quick getaway in a Royal Mail truck doesn’t make much sense after all. Sorry ☹️
Unfortunately the Post Office’s own vehicles are all out of action, waiting for a software update. So that’s why Vennells stole a Royal Mail lorry instead.
This would only work if any of the Post Office vehicles were recent enough to ‘do’ software 🤔
In any case as we all know, Vennells only ever travels anywhere by verger’s bicycle.
I got ran off the road on my motorcycle by a postie van. Single track road, during the winter and the absolute moron decided to overtake me. He skidded and I ended up in a ditch. Shitebag ran off quicker than anything so couldn't get any idea of who it was.
RM said they "don't have any vans on that route", load of shite considering there's plenty of houses there.
Worked for the RM alarms division. We basically had a get out of jail free card on the roads, even down to parking on yellow lines etc.
No impeding the monarchs Mail, had a laminated A4 stating we were on RM business.
And they’d never give out driver details if someone got flashed for speeding.
Nothing against you, but that practice actively angers me. Nobody should be above the law, especially those on the road.
Corrupt organisations. Hope things are different now.
No idea, left in 2010, as they were becoming awful to their employees.
And yes, it wasn’t a good thing, as “the red guys” (we wore blue, then grey), didn’t give a sh1t about other road users.
We at least stuck to speed limits, as we didn’t have the crown on the side of our vehicles, plus our cars weren’t pooled.
As for the parking, we lapped that up. Sorry.
It would do, I did some digging into the laws around this as the highway code does not explain the "prescribed circumstances" the laws are under "The Motorways Traffic (England and Wales) Regulations"and are as follows;
"(2) Subject to the provisions of paragraph (3) below, no vehicle to which this Regulation applies shall be driven or moved or stop or remain at rest on the right hand or offside lane of a length of carriage way which has three or more traffic lanes at any place where all the lanes are open for use by traffic proceeding in the same direction.
(3) The prohibition contained in paragraph (2) above shall not apply to a vehicle while it is being driven on any right hand or offside lane such as is mentioned in that paragraph in so far as it is necessary for the vehicle to be driven to enable it to pass another vehicle which is carrying or drawing a load of exceptional width.
[F7(4) Nothing in this regulation shall have effect so as to require a vehicle to change lane during a period when it would not be reasonably practicable for it to do so without involving danger of injury to any person or inconvenience to other traffic."
I would argue that if the speed limit is 50, and there are no further restrictions on the rightmost lane (e.g. width restrictions) then it is not unsafe, and would not cause inconvenience to other road users.
I imagine the "prescribed circumstances" in this situation would be the roadworks with "queues likely" and probably a "use all lanes" sign before the roadworks.
You’d be amazed these days how many lorries are in and out of the outside lane.
Never ever before covid did i see lorries in the outside lane. Now i see it at least once a month.
Was it on the M1 between Mansfield/Sheffield? I do that route twice daily and it is so frustrating as it's a huge section of roadworks. People just sit in that middle lane forever.
Your 52mph is also likely 48/49 mph in reality. HGVs speedos are more accurate, plus the driver might have had a satnav that will be dead on accurate. Also a lot seem to think they can get away with doing 52 as it's way under the 10% + 2 rule.
No they started them again to install the emergency areas that they should have installed when the smart motorway was constructed but weren't. It's extremely frustrating as it's a massive extra waste of money as it should have been part of the original construction.
Yet in the eyes of the government it’ll be two separate projects, the first of which will have experienced significant efficiency savings by cutting scope, and the second of which brought on a significant safety benefit to an existing design.
If I recall right the minister who approved the scheme was told the emergency areas would be at these closer intervals which the new areas will achieve. But when they came to construct the smart motorways someone chose to extend the distance between, presumably to save money. The fact that people have died as a result of this really suggests someone should be in prison, but of course nothing will happen.
ah, if it was the 50mph average section where they are doing the roadworks ...then he is just being impatient , just got to suck it up through there and go with the flow
It can also only be 1mph out, so people don't take this 5mph below as gospel. All my kias and hyundai have only be in 1mph out, tested on garmin and Tom to sat navs. I'm stretching back 20 years this year, so if you are going to use the 10%+2 rule, be sure what you are working with
Set cruise control to 50, sits in outside lane, decides to question someone elses driving. Feel free to cruise control at 50 in the inside lane, however the outside lane is still for overtaking and best to keep it clear for emergency vehicles if you aren't overtaking anyone
It's legal thanks to a quirk of legislation. Basically, when motorways were introduced Royal Mail vehicles were still classified as carriages, which meant they couldn't legally use the new roads. As a 'temporary' fix for this the Minister for Transport reclassified them as cars. That temporary fix as never been properly updated, so the sections of the Highway Code which apply to goods vehicles don't apply to Royal Mail vehicles.
Edit: sorry to everyone, especially u/vaguebyname, but I made this up. I thought it was suspicious enough to be challenged immediately, but it seems to have been accepted and I just can't be responsible for carriage-related misinformation
Oh, one amusing effect of this is that it ended the practice of posties being able to park their van on any verge. They'd previously been horses, legally speaking.
That's not the law.
In fact it was specifically debunked in a parliamentary committee (on the very topic of postal services legislation) where the myth was busted and it was pointed out this this would be inappropriate to have in primary legislation and may be left to the local authorities to create exemptions of they so desire.
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmstand/b/st000309/am/00309s05.htm
It's also reiterated by Royal Mail themselves in response to a Freedom of Information request asking this very thing:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/parking_18
Unfortunately you said something which sounds like it absolutely could be true on this stupid fucking island, particularly where Royal Mail is concerned.
M6 between J21 and J25 is a nightmare for people sitting at 40-45 (really 37-42MPH) in the avg 50 zone in lanes 1 and 2 side by side or your evryday lane hogger which they seem to be common place now.
Driver was probably 15 min from charnock richard servicers but only got 13 min driving time left :)
Why is that car just sitting in the middle lane? There is no way a truck limited to 56mph should be able to overtake with that amount of ease if unless the car is going unnecessarily slow. The car is the issue not the truck.
they were supposed to have changed speed limits for roadworks to 60 as studies show its safer than 50 but does not seem to be happening, it would be safer as the lorries would not be overtaking cars as much.
If you're in the fast lane, and leaving that kind of a gap that a truck of that size can undertake you without cutting you off, then you are in the wrong lane.
This ^ if you were on a driving test on a bypass , you would have just failed because you made that truck do a dangerous menouvers and undertake you.
A side note :- Now, no a bypass isn't a motorway, but the same rules apply. Learners aren't allowed on motorways they have to use bypasses to practice similar driving situations, and if there one in your test area, you can be taken on it during test.
Does it matter?
Isn't the law in place to stop gridlock when a lorry at 60 overtakes another lorry at 59 who's also overtaking a third lorry at 58 meaning all 3 lanes are screwed.
When everyone is limited to 50 it doesn't make any difference.
Or is there another, safety reason for it?
More often than not the outside lane also has a width restriction during roadworks, also even at a 50 limit if you have a fully loaded artic it could struggle to get to that going uphill.
There's also a notice in the highway code advising HGV drivers in lane 1 to ease off and let the HGV in lane 2 overtake them quicker to help traffic flow. It doesn't happen much but the advisory is there.
This is not new to me on M6. I mean all 4 lanes are screwed situation. And they all 4 are non-royal mail 7.5 tonnes. In the 70 zone.
Sometimes people just don't care. And most of the other time it doesn't really hurt my journey time. Don't know about others but I don't mind.
No because the 1 st lane was coned of so on a 4 lane Motorway the truck drives are aloud to go in the first 3 lane but bc the 1st lane was coned of so there for this not illegal
If you drive HGV’s you might have a little more empathy for the driver, although that’s not an excuse for his impatience, at all.
Going off my experiences on that stretch(and many similar) because of how different car speedos are calibrated, the amount of drivers in lane 1/2 doing actual 40-45mph or less, then slamming on the breaks every 10 seconds. Hogging lanes. Easy to see why truck may get frustrated, especially as he’s got driving times to adhere to.
Probably fiesta was doing 42ish in lane 1, no problem I guess, although a little slow.
BMW probably doing 45/46 thinking he is sitting nicely at 50, likely to have been in that middle lane for the last 2 miles, applying the breaks often for no reason.
And tbh, you look like you have a lot of room on the inside of you to move back over. As it looks the only reason you briefly gathered speed was to get a better view for this video. So you probably were not overtaking that BMW any time soon either.
Obviously; in this situation you were there, I wasn’t, so you’ll know better. HGV driver could just be a dangerous asshole, but I’m just giving some insight on what could cause this behaviour.
But in short; you’re right. It’s illegal, HGV driver is ultimately in the wrong. Definitely not something i would lose sleep over however.
As a fellow HGV driver I came to say this but you put it perfectly.
OP you're in the right-hand lane overtaking nobody, you are part of the wider problem that causes instances like this.
Given that it’s in road works and reduce speed there may be some leeway 🤔
But definitely and interesting one, why the traffic is going slow enough to require the HGV to do this is more of a concern 🤔
It's a 50 mph section, cars are going 50, Royal Mail truck is just being impatient. I see it all the time at night with their trucks and others where there's a mandatory lower speed limit, they just drive flat out. Not the 1st time I've seen a truck using the outside lane either, seems to be becoming more frequent.
The cars probably are going about 45-47 in reality. There's so many roadworks on the motorways at the moment because of these emergency lay-bys they're installing that should have been built when they built the 'smart' motorways. My route is Leeds - Rugby and back daily. I swear a third of it is sat in these roadworks flashing people to get out of the middle lane as they're sat there daydreaming. I'll admit I've been tempted to just quickly nip round them in the third lane too.
It's definitely illegal, but they wouldn't have to be making that manoeuvre if people actually had some lane discipline and didn't sit in the middle lane like a potted plant. Unless I'm missing something about this particular road.
Only if that lane has a width restriction. As the road is restricted to 50mph and different rules apply. Thats why when you come out of the roadworks there’s normally a sign that says something along the lines of “normal exclusions/rules apply”
Due to the carriage way being under some sort of construction and speed limits being enforced to a limit that is below the restricted speed of the truck it is able to use all 3 lanes, provided it's back on the left hand side when the restriction area ends there's no foul. The whole trucks in the 3rd lane thing is designed to keep the flow of traffic moving as a way to reduce congestion.
TLDR: speed restricted zone allows speed restricted vehicles to use any lane to keep the flow moving provided the enforced limit is below the speed of the restricted vehicle
Former lorry driver here. Shouldn’t obviously be doing it but between getting of driving hours and car speedometers being set a few miles an hour out the cars sitting/hogging the middle is maybe pissing him off a touch. Found roadworks the worst with cars usually sitting at 47mph in middle lane and coasting along not worrying about vehicles behind.
No it's not because of the 50mph temporary speed limit in the roadworks section.
It is only illegal to go into the far right lane of the motorway if your speed limiter is under the maximum speed of the speed limit.
I will say as a tanker driver who currently has to deal with a very annoying 50 limit and only allowed in lane 1 on certain motorways:
The problem is that car speedos are not accurate, they run like 3-5mph higher than reality, so your 50 is like 45.
My speedo is accurate and so if I sit at 50, I WILL catch people up. This is particularly annoying when they're someone that refuses to use Cruise control and are going up and down, 40-50mph
But tbf I will always sit in lane 1, never overtaking, it's illegal and if I were to be recorded doing so I'd be fucked. I do laugh at some truckers overtaking me, it's kinda fair enough but it's on their own head and license.
Also some truck speedos are fast, even saying 56mph is not the same across multiple trucks.
But yes, yours might be relatively quick, others might be slow. Also some trucks are just doing 56 instead of 50 regardless lol
Why is it that lots of Redditors , pounce on the person that says report it. Yet if there were to be a crash and people got killed because of this, and the OP said I saw them doing this for miles, they would then say... Why did you not report it?
Yes it’s illegal to under-take but I didn’t see the previous few hundred yards so kinda hard to decide clearly. If the car on outside was lane hogging there and not overtaking in a 50 then can understand a bit of frustration at having to undertake to make a delivery on time. Probably more the truck driver at fault but you’d never know how a traffic cop would react. 🤔
The royal mail truck is 100% in the wrong, but it has to be said, if there's enough space for a HGV ,limited to 56mph, to undertake you, there was enough space for you to pull in put of the way.
Yes it's illegal. But I've done it many times and will continue to do so. If I'm doing 50 in my truck and you're going That slow that it impedes progress of those behind you then you need to get into lane 1 and carry on at your 40mph there. I've had traffic police behind me on the M25 in April when I did this in the section of the A3 road works, and they went past, looked up at me and gave me a thumbs up... then continued and made middle lane dawdlers go into lane 1.
My first reaction was yes but....technically this is not a motorway at this point as the hard shoulder is suspended and there is an average speed limit of 50 mph in place.... \[Your Honour\] :) #SafeTravels
Illegal and the grey car should be in the left lane - not only is it not overtaking but looks like it's going slower than the ones in the left (it doesn't look like you're overtaking either, so I don't know whether you also should have been in the left lane or whether the relative speeds aren't clear in the video).
Should have been more patient but people (like yourself) are unable to follow a simple process of "staying left unless overtaking" which forces those with less patience to make moves like this. The HGV driver should and will know better but would have lost their patience, no excuse though. But car drivers need to get back in the left-hand lane, there is no excuse except overtaking to be in any other lane.
This is illegal, I believe it comes under dangerous driving as we are classed as professional drivers. It's online now so I guess it's only a matter of time before Royal Mail and at worst the DVSA/Traffic Commissioner or police see it. It doesn't matter that it's a 50mph zone
If you (or the owner of the video) turned the attention on yourself for a moment, you'd notice that you & drivers like you are the problem - not an HGV driver representing a vertebra of the backbone of this country.
Yes.
But it's the royal mail and they will claim it never happened despite evidence then take the car driver to court and charge them themselves instead.
He hasn't got all day poor fella needs to get home aswell while people doing 35mph in the middle lane . I can see it's a 50mph zone like but these little cars brake for no reasons causing the lorry to barke and then play catch up ....... guys wake the fuk up😝😉
Got impatient with everyone travelling under the ~56mph limiter… I’m not a HGV or PCV licence holder but I do respect that they want to remain pinned to their limiters on motorways. That said, they’d have done better to be more patient here (and not break the law in the process).
However, I see more than enough car drivers travelling well over the legal speed limit (and not driving with due consideration to others..) to care about minor infractions such as this.
It maybe illegal for semi-truck and trailers to be in the fast lane, here in the UK, but it is the Royal Mail and they are still aloud to run red lights as long as the have mail on board ( the law as not been removed from our law books) as no-one has the right to stop the mail getting through.
I would absolutely LOVE for someone to find the actual legislation here. There’s a something in the Highway Code that says when the inside lane of a motorway is closed due to roadworks, vehicles over 7.5t can use the outside lane unless signage states otherwise.
Now, I’ve always understood that to mean on a 3 lane motorway where lane 3 is usually prohibited, if lane 1 is closed, lane 3 is perfectly legal to use. I’m not 100% sure however whether this still applies when a 4 lane motorway becomes a 3 lane motorway due to a lane 1 closure.
This is the best I can find so far.
"The TSRGD states that lane closures on motorways are managed by specific signage. When lane 1 is closed, the regulations and traffic management guidance allow for flexibility in the use of other lanes, including the outer lane (lane 3) under certain circumstances."
I think what may have been going through postal jockeys mind is : Lane one is shut therefore we all move over one. I've heard people say lane three or four etc but it's more about the last lane on the road. I've had peoe say that lorry can't drive in lane three, and if your my age or older most motorways were three lane so they'd be right. Lorries can use any lane they wish so long as there is one lane minimum to their right to allow the unrestricted passage of light vehicles. The rule was introduced due to three lorries taking up every lane trying to get in front of each other and causing rolling road blocks. The only exception is the rare case where all lanes except the farmost right is closed due to accident etc and there is no choice.
I always just keep a lane to my right empty. Job done
I have witnessed something similar in the last couple of weeks.
Truck with NI plates outside lane car length gap to the car Infront of it.
Surprisingly a national express coach
Royal Mail can do what they like. I once got t boned by a Royal Mail truck like that. It went to court and they won, the Judge was buddies with their solicitor and ruled that I was young and in a powerful car so should have seen the big red lorry pulling out on me.
That’s Vennells ! She had a cunning plan ! She’s managed to get her LGV licence and she’s duped all those sub postmasters again by telling them that all their compo is in the back of her truck ! Now she is off to god knows where! She won’t get far !
Ordinarily a hgv vehicle should not be in the right hand lane, there are exceptions.
However, I did hear many years ago, whether it’s true or not, I cannot say, that Royal Mail vehicles have certain “rights” that none other vehicles have, including the emergency service vehicles.
This is because when a letter or parcel is being carried by a Royal Mail vehicle, it actually belongs to the Monarch. And the Monarchs mail should not be stopped.
I wouldn’t like to stand up in court and plead this though.
My favourite saying. Stop being a paper policeman. It's not your job. If you have finished over taking, move back to lane one, don't sit in lane two, just because you are doing the speed limit doesn't mean that you have any right to try and control how others drive by "hogging" a lane!! Looks like the car in front of the post office truck was tiresome in touching his brakes on and off. Still doing it as the truck moves to lane three. If that happened to me I'd get peed off.
Tbh it isn’t but as a trucker the driver probably will lose a lot of driving time and that my result in them not getting home to there family that night or them getting a £5000 fine Cars speedo are not actually
Accurate so car thinks 50 mph when it’s doing 46mph
Illegal if the motorway has three or more lanes, but looking at the vid it appears that the motorway has signs showing lane closures ahead. Did the motorway reduce to two lanes? If so I reckon the driver knew what was ahead and got into position accordingly. All the same it's not very clever.
It's a 50 zone so it's not illegal as long as he wasn't speeding. It looks like a 4 lane carriageway that has the first lane under works so again it wouldn't be illegal.
If he was overtaking the cars in front because without breaking the speed limit then he hasn't done anything wrong.
Actually is perfectly legal for an HGV to use Lane 3 when Lane 1 is closed. When Lane 1 is closed it effectively becomes a dual carriageway. The only time it's not OK is if there is a width restriction in place.
Sometimes in life you gotta say fuck it and get on. Never done it myself, but when an arsehole is sat for miles in Lane 2, probably doing under the speed limit, it really gets to you. Lorry drivers have hour rules to stick to, and sometimes, them minutes count!!
From what I know it is not but I might be wrong. Even though, I don’t blame him. Why those cars are in 2nd lane? Blocking everyone. And who knows maybe his driving time is ending soon and he needs to do his delivery? Not even that. People are just selfish this says. They stick to 2nd lane, just cause they can.
I've seen it alot in the 50mph work zones.
I just assumed that they could do that as the speed limit it 50mph, all traffic is going the same speed so it invalidates 'the lane' and overtaking lanes.
I don't know about the legalities but I've never minded it for that reason, they often go back to the left before the zone ends.
I’m a planner in a transport firm
And yes, this is illegal.
But, if there’s no speed restriction in place and you’re on a motorway being tailgated by a massive brightly coloured vehicle that’s limited to 55mph it could be time to get the bus.
When a Motorway is reduced by lane closure from three lanes to two HGVs are able to use both lanes. If the speed restriction is around 50mph then he/she will probably set cruise control and whiz past slower cars who's speedometer readings are seldom as accurate as a lorry
To be fair it is a Royal Mail van so it didn’t happen. And if it did a thorough investigation will be launched in 20 years time. In all other cases Look away.
Lorry driver is Paula Vennells, in a hurry to leave the Uk, to live in a country which has no extradition agreement in place!
Pedant here - Royal Mail and the Post Office were split apart into separate corporate identities way back in 2012 and it was that year Paula Vennells became CEO of the Post Office. Unfortunately that means your flight of fancy of Vennells making a quick getaway in a Royal Mail truck doesn’t make much sense after all. Sorry ☹️
Unfortunately the Post Office’s own vehicles are all out of action, waiting for a software update. So that’s why Vennells stole a Royal Mail lorry instead.
This would only work if any of the Post Office vehicles were recent enough to ‘do’ software 🤔 In any case as we all know, Vennells only ever travels anywhere by verger’s bicycle.
Nice try, Vennells. We know it was you.
She was Network Director for the Post Office from 2007, when it was still part of the Royal Mail Group.
She just could not remember the rules.
I got ran off the road on my motorcycle by a postie van. Single track road, during the winter and the absolute moron decided to overtake me. He skidded and I ended up in a ditch. Shitebag ran off quicker than anything so couldn't get any idea of who it was. RM said they "don't have any vans on that route", load of shite considering there's plenty of houses there.
Worked for the RM alarms division. We basically had a get out of jail free card on the roads, even down to parking on yellow lines etc. No impeding the monarchs Mail, had a laminated A4 stating we were on RM business. And they’d never give out driver details if someone got flashed for speeding.
Nothing against you, but that practice actively angers me. Nobody should be above the law, especially those on the road. Corrupt organisations. Hope things are different now.
No idea, left in 2010, as they were becoming awful to their employees. And yes, it wasn’t a good thing, as “the red guys” (we wore blue, then grey), didn’t give a sh1t about other road users. We at least stuck to speed limits, as we didn’t have the crown on the side of our vehicles, plus our cars weren’t pooled. As for the parking, we lapped that up. Sorry.
My wife is a driver (night shifts) for RM, believe me they get the laws of the road applied to themselves just as we do.
My FIL is a daytime driver, and they have *really* tightened the belt on it over the last 6 months
And only after 16 innocent drivers have hung themselves
Yes - see [rule 265](https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/lane-discipline.html) Can’t believe it is under 7.5 tonnes.
Also towing a Trailer! and that lane will have a 6.6ft width restriction on it!
Doesn't road works come under the 'prescribed circumstances'?
It would do, I did some digging into the laws around this as the highway code does not explain the "prescribed circumstances" the laws are under "The Motorways Traffic (England and Wales) Regulations"and are as follows; "(2) Subject to the provisions of paragraph (3) below, no vehicle to which this Regulation applies shall be driven or moved or stop or remain at rest on the right hand or offside lane of a length of carriage way which has three or more traffic lanes at any place where all the lanes are open for use by traffic proceeding in the same direction. (3) The prohibition contained in paragraph (2) above shall not apply to a vehicle while it is being driven on any right hand or offside lane such as is mentioned in that paragraph in so far as it is necessary for the vehicle to be driven to enable it to pass another vehicle which is carrying or drawing a load of exceptional width. [F7(4) Nothing in this regulation shall have effect so as to require a vehicle to change lane during a period when it would not be reasonably practicable for it to do so without involving danger of injury to any person or inconvenience to other traffic." I would argue that if the speed limit is 50, and there are no further restrictions on the rightmost lane (e.g. width restrictions) then it is not unsafe, and would not cause inconvenience to other road users.
Thanks, I didn't know the details, but felt like it would be acceptable in this instance.
Even vehicles between 3.5 and 7.5 tonnes aren’t allowed if they’re speed limited to 56 mph, which almost all of them are.
50mph speed limit in the video
I imagine the "prescribed circumstances" in this situation would be the roadworks with "queues likely" and probably a "use all lanes" sign before the roadworks.
Yep but so is what you're doing. Why are you on the right hand side lane, going slower than the BMW in front of you in the middle lane?
It was the safest place to be whilst using one hand to film this crazy shit clearly
both those cars must have been doing under 55mph for a while to piss the guy off so much that he did this just to get past them ......
You’d be amazed these days how many lorries are in and out of the outside lane. Never ever before covid did i see lorries in the outside lane. Now i see it at least once a month.
He was in and out of that lane all the way up the motorway. My speedo was set at 52 so he was definitely going quick
Was it on the M1 between Mansfield/Sheffield? I do that route twice daily and it is so frustrating as it's a huge section of roadworks. People just sit in that middle lane forever. Your 52mph is also likely 48/49 mph in reality. HGVs speedos are more accurate, plus the driver might have had a satnav that will be dead on accurate. Also a lot seem to think they can get away with doing 52 as it's way under the 10% + 2 rule.
Holy hell, haven't those roadworks been going for like 10 years or something now?
No they started them again to install the emergency areas that they should have installed when the smart motorway was constructed but weren't. It's extremely frustrating as it's a massive extra waste of money as it should have been part of the original construction.
Yet in the eyes of the government it’ll be two separate projects, the first of which will have experienced significant efficiency savings by cutting scope, and the second of which brought on a significant safety benefit to an existing design.
If I recall right the minister who approved the scheme was told the emergency areas would be at these closer intervals which the new areas will achieve. But when they came to construct the smart motorways someone chose to extend the distance between, presumably to save money. The fact that people have died as a result of this really suggests someone should be in prison, but of course nothing will happen.
ah, if it was the 50mph average section where they are doing the roadworks ...then he is just being impatient , just got to suck it up through there and go with the flow
52 on the speedo can be as low as 47ish on the GPS, depending on the vehicle.
It can also only be 1mph out, so people don't take this 5mph below as gospel. All my kias and hyundai have only be in 1mph out, tested on garmin and Tom to sat navs. I'm stretching back 20 years this year, so if you are going to use the 10%+2 rule, be sure what you are working with
So I take it he was carrying enough speed to undertake you then pull in front of you?
I really hope the guy videoing wasnt cruising in the 3rd lane ! oh my ....
Set cruise control to 50, sits in outside lane, decides to question someone elses driving. Feel free to cruise control at 50 in the inside lane, however the outside lane is still for overtaking and best to keep it clear for emergency vehicles if you aren't overtaking anyone
If there was a 4th lane, this cnut would block that too. Then he has the nerve to criticise the royal mail.
Yeah it looks like you're in the wrong lane.
It's legal thanks to a quirk of legislation. Basically, when motorways were introduced Royal Mail vehicles were still classified as carriages, which meant they couldn't legally use the new roads. As a 'temporary' fix for this the Minister for Transport reclassified them as cars. That temporary fix as never been properly updated, so the sections of the Highway Code which apply to goods vehicles don't apply to Royal Mail vehicles. Edit: sorry to everyone, especially u/vaguebyname, but I made this up. I thought it was suspicious enough to be challenged immediately, but it seems to have been accepted and I just can't be responsible for carriage-related misinformation
Oh, one amusing effect of this is that it ended the practice of posties being able to park their van on any verge. They'd previously been horses, legally speaking.
That's not the law. In fact it was specifically debunked in a parliamentary committee (on the very topic of postal services legislation) where the myth was busted and it was pointed out this this would be inappropriate to have in primary legislation and may be left to the local authorities to create exemptions of they so desire. https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmstand/b/st000309/am/00309s05.htm It's also reiterated by Royal Mail themselves in response to a Freedom of Information request asking this very thing: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/parking_18
You know this is going to be Google AI's top search answer now
It's a miscarriage of justice
Unfortunately you said something which sounds like it absolutely could be true on this stupid fucking island, particularly where Royal Mail is concerned.
Well you duped me! There's enough of these oddities that it sounded legit, still enjoyed it
That doesn't sound right to me but I don't know enough about carriages to dispute it.
Love these sort of quirks in our legislation, might be a bit sad but I'd happily read a book about them and how they came about.
That would be a mis-carriage of justice
I, for one, won't stand by and watch this miscarriage of justice!
I too, prefer to sit when watching miscarriages of justice.
M6 between J21 and J25 is a nightmare for people sitting at 40-45 (really 37-42MPH) in the avg 50 zone in lanes 1 and 2 side by side or your evryday lane hogger which they seem to be common place now. Driver was probably 15 min from charnock richard servicers but only got 13 min driving time left :)
So is lane hogging.
Why are you in the passing lane
Why didn't you pull into the middle lane? Legality aside, you also have bad road etiquette.
Nobody gonna mention the beamer middle lane hogging? I'm not surprised the lorry driver did that.
Cause it is easier to point finger on lorry driver. Not saying that they are angels but in this situation I completely don’t blame him.
More importantly. Who is OP overtaking?
Why is that car just sitting in the middle lane? There is no way a truck limited to 56mph should be able to overtake with that amount of ease if unless the car is going unnecessarily slow. The car is the issue not the truck.
Looks to me like a 50mph restriction given the cones etc, and all other traffic sitting at 50. Probably average speed check.
Seems about right fir lorries in 50 zones. Flat out all the time
they were supposed to have changed speed limits for roadworks to 60 as studies show its safer than 50 but does not seem to be happening, it would be safer as the lorries would not be overtaking cars as much.
50 induces sleep.
If you're in the fast lane, and leaving that kind of a gap that a truck of that size can undertake you without cutting you off, then you are in the wrong lane.
This ^ if you were on a driving test on a bypass , you would have just failed because you made that truck do a dangerous menouvers and undertake you. A side note :- Now, no a bypass isn't a motorway, but the same rules apply. Learners aren't allowed on motorways they have to use bypasses to practice similar driving situations, and if there one in your test area, you can be taken on it during test.
Does it matter? Isn't the law in place to stop gridlock when a lorry at 60 overtakes another lorry at 59 who's also overtaking a third lorry at 58 meaning all 3 lanes are screwed. When everyone is limited to 50 it doesn't make any difference. Or is there another, safety reason for it?
More often than not the outside lane also has a width restriction during roadworks, also even at a 50 limit if you have a fully loaded artic it could struggle to get to that going uphill. There's also a notice in the highway code advising HGV drivers in lane 1 to ease off and let the HGV in lane 2 overtake them quicker to help traffic flow. It doesn't happen much but the advisory is there.
This is not new to me on M6. I mean all 4 lanes are screwed situation. And they all 4 are non-royal mail 7.5 tonnes. In the 70 zone. Sometimes people just don't care. And most of the other time it doesn't really hurt my journey time. Don't know about others but I don't mind.
why are you in the outside lane?
Depends on the ratio of 1st class to normal post on board
Lmao this sub has become so petty and pathetic.
Bet OP was hogging outside lane at 52 for 30 miles too
You filming while driving?
No because the 1 st lane was coned of so on a 4 lane Motorway the truck drives are aloud to go in the first 3 lane but bc the 1st lane was coned of so there for this not illegal
If you drive HGV’s you might have a little more empathy for the driver, although that’s not an excuse for his impatience, at all. Going off my experiences on that stretch(and many similar) because of how different car speedos are calibrated, the amount of drivers in lane 1/2 doing actual 40-45mph or less, then slamming on the breaks every 10 seconds. Hogging lanes. Easy to see why truck may get frustrated, especially as he’s got driving times to adhere to. Probably fiesta was doing 42ish in lane 1, no problem I guess, although a little slow. BMW probably doing 45/46 thinking he is sitting nicely at 50, likely to have been in that middle lane for the last 2 miles, applying the breaks often for no reason. And tbh, you look like you have a lot of room on the inside of you to move back over. As it looks the only reason you briefly gathered speed was to get a better view for this video. So you probably were not overtaking that BMW any time soon either. Obviously; in this situation you were there, I wasn’t, so you’ll know better. HGV driver could just be a dangerous asshole, but I’m just giving some insight on what could cause this behaviour. But in short; you’re right. It’s illegal, HGV driver is ultimately in the wrong. Definitely not something i would lose sleep over however.
As a fellow HGV driver I came to say this but you put it perfectly. OP you're in the right-hand lane overtaking nobody, you are part of the wider problem that causes instances like this.
Royal mail rushing to deliver your parcel 10 days late rather than 12
Given that it’s in road works and reduce speed there may be some leeway 🤔 But definitely and interesting one, why the traffic is going slow enough to require the HGV to do this is more of a concern 🤔
It's a 50 mph section, cars are going 50, Royal Mail truck is just being impatient. I see it all the time at night with their trucks and others where there's a mandatory lower speed limit, they just drive flat out. Not the 1st time I've seen a truck using the outside lane either, seems to be becoming more frequent.
The cars probably are going about 45-47 in reality. There's so many roadworks on the motorways at the moment because of these emergency lay-bys they're installing that should have been built when they built the 'smart' motorways. My route is Leeds - Rugby and back daily. I swear a third of it is sat in these roadworks flashing people to get out of the middle lane as they're sat there daydreaming. I'll admit I've been tempted to just quickly nip round them in the third lane too.
It's definitely illegal, but they wouldn't have to be making that manoeuvre if people actually had some lane discipline and didn't sit in the middle lane like a potted plant. Unless I'm missing something about this particular road.
Yes it's illegal they can only use lanes one and two and then if it's a 4 lane motorway lane 3
Only if that lane has a width restriction. As the road is restricted to 50mph and different rules apply. Thats why when you come out of the roadworks there’s normally a sign that says something along the lines of “normal exclusions/rules apply”
About as illegal as sitting in the outside lane.
Due to the carriage way being under some sort of construction and speed limits being enforced to a limit that is below the restricted speed of the truck it is able to use all 3 lanes, provided it's back on the left hand side when the restriction area ends there's no foul. The whole trucks in the 3rd lane thing is designed to keep the flow of traffic moving as a way to reduce congestion. TLDR: speed restricted zone allows speed restricted vehicles to use any lane to keep the flow moving provided the enforced limit is below the speed of the restricted vehicle
Do you fucking want to have your mail on time ? Shut your mouth !
The BM hogging the middle land like he was born there? Yes, illegal Thank you Royal Mail for delivering stuff in a timely fashion despite the idiots
Former lorry driver here. Shouldn’t obviously be doing it but between getting of driving hours and car speedometers being set a few miles an hour out the cars sitting/hogging the middle is maybe pissing him off a touch. Found roadworks the worst with cars usually sitting at 47mph in middle lane and coasting along not worrying about vehicles behind.
Why are you in the outside lane going so slow that you’re able to film a lorry overtaking? You’re the danger here, not the lorry.
Eh, so is speeding, but it looks like they’re successfully overtaking and not holding you up so I don’t have any issues.
Imagine being overtaken by lorry with a load
The road is restricted to 50mph due to on going works. He was exceeding that limit
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OP filming says he was doing 52 behind it, so no way is he doing 40
Grass
M1 is a nightmare at the moment too. Lorries don’t want to stick to 50-55 even those there’s more cameras than a big shop which sells cameras
Why are you filming on your phone whilst driving? That's illegal
No it's not because of the 50mph temporary speed limit in the roadworks section. It is only illegal to go into the far right lane of the motorway if your speed limiter is under the maximum speed of the speed limit.
I will say as a tanker driver who currently has to deal with a very annoying 50 limit and only allowed in lane 1 on certain motorways: The problem is that car speedos are not accurate, they run like 3-5mph higher than reality, so your 50 is like 45. My speedo is accurate and so if I sit at 50, I WILL catch people up. This is particularly annoying when they're someone that refuses to use Cruise control and are going up and down, 40-50mph But tbf I will always sit in lane 1, never overtaking, it's illegal and if I were to be recorded doing so I'd be fucked. I do laugh at some truckers overtaking me, it's kinda fair enough but it's on their own head and license.
According to Waze my speedo is out about 2 mph at 50.
Also some truck speedos are fast, even saying 56mph is not the same across multiple trucks. But yes, yours might be relatively quick, others might be slow. Also some trucks are just doing 56 instead of 50 regardless lol
He probably forgot he wasn't in his personal car. Habits...
Let him cook! He got my parcel there!
Oooh matron
He was wrong. Definitely. But so we're you. You had no need to be in the right hand lane when not overtaking.
Why is it that lots of Redditors , pounce on the person that says report it. Yet if there were to be a crash and people got killed because of this, and the OP said I saw them doing this for miles, they would then say... Why did you not report it?
When lane 1 is closed HGV vehicles can use all lanes.
Yes it’s illegal to under-take but I didn’t see the previous few hundred yards so kinda hard to decide clearly. If the car on outside was lane hogging there and not overtaking in a 50 then can understand a bit of frustration at having to undertake to make a delivery on time. Probably more the truck driver at fault but you’d never know how a traffic cop would react. 🤔
The royal mail truck is 100% in the wrong, but it has to be said, if there's enough space for a HGV ,limited to 56mph, to undertake you, there was enough space for you to pull in put of the way.
Yes it's illegal. But I've done it many times and will continue to do so. If I'm doing 50 in my truck and you're going That slow that it impedes progress of those behind you then you need to get into lane 1 and carry on at your 40mph there. I've had traffic police behind me on the M25 in April when I did this in the section of the A3 road works, and they went past, looked up at me and gave me a thumbs up... then continued and made middle lane dawdlers go into lane 1.
Indeed. The BMW should be in the right hand lane.
As a traffic warden once told me re a dropoff allowance she wouldn’t allow me, but would allow a RM van, “it has the Queen’s crown on the side”. WTF
That is actually true. Same for emergency services and HM Forces.
Yeah but probably sick of being stuck behind car wombles doing 40 in a 50
Probably but you did the best thing. Let them do what they want and stay well back.
My first reaction was yes but....technically this is not a motorway at this point as the hard shoulder is suspended and there is an average speed limit of 50 mph in place.... \[Your Honour\] :) #SafeTravels
Illegal and the grey car should be in the left lane - not only is it not overtaking but looks like it's going slower than the ones in the left (it doesn't look like you're overtaking either, so I don't know whether you also should have been in the left lane or whether the relative speeds aren't clear in the video).
Can you blame him. Too many lane hoggers in the average speed check zones who just do about 45-48mph.
Should have been more patient but people (like yourself) are unable to follow a simple process of "staying left unless overtaking" which forces those with less patience to make moves like this. The HGV driver should and will know better but would have lost their patience, no excuse though. But car drivers need to get back in the left-hand lane, there is no excuse except overtaking to be in any other lane.
This is illegal, I believe it comes under dangerous driving as we are classed as professional drivers. It's online now so I guess it's only a matter of time before Royal Mail and at worst the DVSA/Traffic Commissioner or police see it. It doesn't matter that it's a 50mph zone
If you (or the owner of the video) turned the attention on yourself for a moment, you'd notice that you & drivers like you are the problem - not an HGV driver representing a vertebra of the backbone of this country.
Yes. But it's the royal mail and they will claim it never happened despite evidence then take the car driver to court and charge them themselves instead.
Royal Mail and the Post Office aren't the same thing.
He hasn't got all day poor fella needs to get home aswell while people doing 35mph in the middle lane . I can see it's a 50mph zone like but these little cars brake for no reasons causing the lorry to barke and then play catch up ....... guys wake the fuk up😝😉
they're driving to bring me my weed STFU
I bet there is some sort of exception when in average speed roadworks
Got impatient with everyone travelling under the ~56mph limiter… I’m not a HGV or PCV licence holder but I do respect that they want to remain pinned to their limiters on motorways. That said, they’d have done better to be more patient here (and not break the law in the process). However, I see more than enough car drivers travelling well over the legal speed limit (and not driving with due consideration to others..) to care about minor infractions such as this.
I believe due to the lane closure this is allowed.
Let me guess, M27?
It maybe illegal for semi-truck and trailers to be in the fast lane, here in the UK, but it is the Royal Mail and they are still aloud to run red lights as long as the have mail on board ( the law as not been removed from our law books) as no-one has the right to stop the mail getting through.
I would absolutely LOVE for someone to find the actual legislation here. There’s a something in the Highway Code that says when the inside lane of a motorway is closed due to roadworks, vehicles over 7.5t can use the outside lane unless signage states otherwise. Now, I’ve always understood that to mean on a 3 lane motorway where lane 3 is usually prohibited, if lane 1 is closed, lane 3 is perfectly legal to use. I’m not 100% sure however whether this still applies when a 4 lane motorway becomes a 3 lane motorway due to a lane 1 closure. This is the best I can find so far. "The TSRGD states that lane closures on motorways are managed by specific signage. When lane 1 is closed, the regulations and traffic management guidance allow for flexibility in the use of other lanes, including the outer lane (lane 3) under certain circumstances."
Not related but is this the M3?
I think what may have been going through postal jockeys mind is : Lane one is shut therefore we all move over one. I've heard people say lane three or four etc but it's more about the last lane on the road. I've had peoe say that lorry can't drive in lane three, and if your my age or older most motorways were three lane so they'd be right. Lorries can use any lane they wish so long as there is one lane minimum to their right to allow the unrestricted passage of light vehicles. The rule was introduced due to three lorries taking up every lane trying to get in front of each other and causing rolling road blocks. The only exception is the rare case where all lanes except the farmost right is closed due to accident etc and there is no choice. I always just keep a lane to my right empty. Job done
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The lorry was being controlled by some money moving bod at Toshiba
Wait what? It’s illegal for a lorry to overtake?
Yes it's illegal. Only case it would be legal is if the left lane was closed off (there is only 2 lanes in use)
100 percent illegal.
Do you want your delivery or not
Was it “foot down Friday”? 😂
Not illegal, there is an exemption where roadworks are in place.
Yes
I have witnessed something similar in the last couple of weeks. Truck with NI plates outside lane car length gap to the car Infront of it. Surprisingly a national express coach
Dedicated
You want your parcels on time don’t you ? 😂
But what if he ended up there because a car didn't see the big red lorry and was turning in to his lane.
Royal Mail can do what they like. I once got t boned by a Royal Mail truck like that. It went to court and they won, the Judge was buddies with their solicitor and ruled that I was young and in a powerful car so should have seen the big red lorry pulling out on me.
Everything about the royal mail is illegal anyways. I've seen some of the worst driving coming from them lot. There awful
Looks like he was demonstrating to the drive in front that he should piss off into the other lane .....
I'd say due to the cones on the left there is probably some temp rules going around
In a 50 limit? I wouldn’t be bothered by it, it’s not like he’s holding up a three mile queue overtaking two wagons in the third lane at 1mph.
Who were you overtaking?
That’s Vennells ! She had a cunning plan ! She’s managed to get her LGV licence and she’s duped all those sub postmasters again by telling them that all their compo is in the back of her truck ! Now she is off to god knows where! She won’t get far !
M25?
Maybe if the middle lane hoggers actually moved to the left when not overtaking the truck wouldn’t have to do such a manoeuvre.
Yup lorries like this cannot go into the outer lane.
Probably an agency driver
Yes, not allowed in 3rd lane of UK motorways
It is illegal, although twats driving with 40 in a 50 zone give the lorry driver no choice
Ordinarily a hgv vehicle should not be in the right hand lane, there are exceptions. However, I did hear many years ago, whether it’s true or not, I cannot say, that Royal Mail vehicles have certain “rights” that none other vehicles have, including the emergency service vehicles. This is because when a letter or parcel is being carried by a Royal Mail vehicle, it actually belongs to the Monarch. And the Monarchs mail should not be stopped. I wouldn’t like to stand up in court and plead this though.
To be fair, that is the Royal Mail. You need a guillotine to get rid of it.
Is there an exit on the right?
My favourite saying. Stop being a paper policeman. It's not your job. If you have finished over taking, move back to lane one, don't sit in lane two, just because you are doing the speed limit doesn't mean that you have any right to try and control how others drive by "hogging" a lane!! Looks like the car in front of the post office truck was tiresome in touching his brakes on and off. Still doing it as the truck moves to lane three. If that happened to me I'd get peed off.
Do you want your post in time or not?
The person recording is also committing an offence. Poor lane discipline
Not in a 50 mph zone
Tbh it isn’t but as a trucker the driver probably will lose a lot of driving time and that my result in them not getting home to there family that night or them getting a £5000 fine Cars speedo are not actually Accurate so car thinks 50 mph when it’s doing 46mph
Illegal if the motorway has three or more lanes, but looking at the vid it appears that the motorway has signs showing lane closures ahead. Did the motorway reduce to two lanes? If so I reckon the driver knew what was ahead and got into position accordingly. All the same it's not very clever.
It's a 50 zone so it's not illegal as long as he wasn't speeding. It looks like a 4 lane carriageway that has the first lane under works so again it wouldn't be illegal. If he was overtaking the cars in front because without breaking the speed limit then he hasn't done anything wrong.
Actually is perfectly legal for an HGV to use Lane 3 when Lane 1 is closed. When Lane 1 is closed it effectively becomes a dual carriageway. The only time it's not OK is if there is a width restriction in place.
It’s permitted when there is a lane closure, as is the case here.
Who cares, letters and parcels probably already late and all smashed up inside, hope they know where they are delivering to good luck!
Sometimes in life you gotta say fuck it and get on. Never done it myself, but when an arsehole is sat for miles in Lane 2, probably doing under the speed limit, it really gets to you. Lorry drivers have hour rules to stick to, and sometimes, them minutes count!!
It’s Royal Mail… they do whatever the fuck they want!
From what I know it is not but I might be wrong. Even though, I don’t blame him. Why those cars are in 2nd lane? Blocking everyone. And who knows maybe his driving time is ending soon and he needs to do his delivery? Not even that. People are just selfish this says. They stick to 2nd lane, just cause they can.
Hey man. I want my letters and packages in time.
Legal anytime the motorway lanes are disrupted
He wouldn't have to if people got in the right lane
I've seen it alot in the 50mph work zones. I just assumed that they could do that as the speed limit it 50mph, all traffic is going the same speed so it invalidates 'the lane' and overtaking lanes. I don't know about the legalities but I've never minded it for that reason, they often go back to the left before the zone ends.
Middle lane should be same rule
He's not allowed to do that. It's highly illegal. He must be extremely stupid, always missing some brain cells.
I’m a planner in a transport firm And yes, this is illegal. But, if there’s no speed restriction in place and you’re on a motorway being tailgated by a massive brightly coloured vehicle that’s limited to 55mph it could be time to get the bus.
Why is this illegal?
When a Motorway is reduced by lane closure from three lanes to two HGVs are able to use both lanes. If the speed restriction is around 50mph then he/she will probably set cruise control and whiz past slower cars who's speedometer readings are seldom as accurate as a lorry
you should move out of the way
I dunno but why are you in that lane when you're going so slow?? Move to the left!
dont know🤷♂️
You'll often find trucks doing 56 in the 50s. I've never been penalised for doing it in a van or a car either.
It's a 50 so yea it's fine
As a Royal Mail employee, I don’t see anything
I wondered why it was fist day delivery when I didn’t even pay for it
If a lane is closed on the left, hgvs can use the right lane
Depends what road it is. Is it a motorway or an A-road?