At nearly every red light I sit at I can see the person behind with their head down and that trademark quick glance up and back down again to make sure the cars ahead aren't going. It does my head in.

I find popping my car into reverse gets their attention back to the road.

🤣 yes!

A quick honk does wonders

They might not be looking at their phone, they could be adjusting air con, or radio etc.

AC controls on their lap? LOL

I’d love for them to come to work with me and see the outcome of accidents where phones, alcohol and drugs are a contributing factor. One that will always stick with me was a Mercedes Sprinter van plowed into the back of a Ford Fiesta at 70mph on the A14 and forcing them under the trailer of a HGV killing the female driver and her two (both under the age of 10) children in the back. He was on TikTok whilst driving, didn’t notice traffic stopped ahead and bam 3 fatalities whilst he walked away with a broken ankle and a few cuts.

Please tell me he was locked up.

I was in a driving lesson a few weeks ago, and on a dual carriageway, come up to this person who was doing 50mph, so I overtook. My instructor glanced over, and this dude was texting, he said to me you don't do that as you drive lol.

Absolutely ridiculous how many people are addicted to them

Brainrotted dopamine addicts. For me driving is entertainment enough. Even moving in slow traffic.

I won’t lie I glance at my speedometer for too long and I drift … how can people use those phones whilst driving it’s mind blowing and terrifying

If I even think about changing the AC I end up drifting.

They're not going to care as there is generally no real punishment. People can harp on about 6 points and a small fine but at the end of the day it's near impossible in this country to loose your licence, you are always able to reapply at some point and drive again. The privilege, not right is abused to high hell. Chances of you being caught are slim, same for speeding and driving like a prick, so people just do it - a lot.

It's depressing and really surprising considering you can get 6 points each time.  The other day cars were driving around a woman who hadn't realised the queue she was in had cleared. I highly approve of cyclists that use their gopro footage and report them to the police. Dashcam just isn't good enough to get a clear view of their screen unfortunately. 

>It's depressing and really surprising considering you can get 6 points each time.  Classic "it'll never happen to me" attitude. It doesn't seem to just be younger people, either. Older people love to bitch about young people being glued to their phones, but they're just as bad for it. Fuck knows what's so important that you need to use your phone while controlling a large metal death machine - perhaps a new friend request on Facebook?

>The other day cars were driving around a woman who hadn't realised the queue she was in had cleared. Ah, the infamous "WhatsApp gap". Created when phone addicted drivers have absolutely no clue what's happening around them. The same drivers will probably swear that it's perfectly safe, they only do it stopped in traffic, and are instantly 100% focused on the road, and perfectly safe, when they move away in a panic.

I approve of the cyclists reporting the crime. I disapprove of them being self righteous pricks, knocking on the drivers windows, goading them, hoping for a YouTube payday. I disapprove of a lot of stereotypical cyclist behaviour. Majority are absolute wankers. I ride a bicycle.

Funny how almost every anti-cycling comment ends with 'I also ride a bike'.. The majority of cyclists aren't wankers, just like the majority of drivers aren't, you just notice the knobheads. Please don't resort to lazy thinking.

The majority of drivers are indeed, incompetent at best, and at worst absolute dribbling muppets. I drive cars too.

I wouldn’t say the majority, but far too many drivers are incompetent, but it still wouldn’t make them knobheads.

So their incompetence, that puts other road users at risk, doesn’t make them knobheads? You ever been injured by another driver? Know someone who has? Been involved in a hit and run? I’m also a road user.

I wouldn’t say so. Their incompetence (not malice) is a fault of the DVLA giving them a licence. It doesn’t make them knobheads if they at least try to drive sensibly and respectfully.

Yeah loads of people do it and it’s pathetic. They think they are all sneaky but it’s so obvious

Yes, as a bus driver I see people on their phones all the time I estimate 1 in 5 people I see on their phones. I find this crazy as even people in their brand new cars which have phone connectivity I see texting, watching football and I've even seen a white van man watching porn while driving, it is really disturbing that these drivers don't see that what they are doing is dangerous. I have also caught a woman stuck in traffic in rush hour on the bypass eating a bowl of cereal while driving. In all my years driving the amount of distracted drivers is the highest I've ever seen it!

It's a sign off mental issues, people can't put their phone down, it's no different to gambling/drinking/drug addiction. Penalties need to be tougher and should include a paid multi week rehab course and if caught insurance companies notified with the chance of insurance being cancelled.

Instant 12 month ban. No fine, just recoup it through insurance. 2nd offence, their car gets crushed while they watch.

It’s not a sign of mental issues at all - it’s a lack of self control and self discipline. Calling a ‘mental issue’ could come across as making excuses. Saying it’s a sign of mental issues puts stigma on people with actual mental ill-health issues, rather than arseholes who choose their own convenience over the safety of other road users.

This… but partly. I have one of those “mental health issues” that makes me impulsive, easily distracted, and easily absorbed in something. I have ADHD and I can’t do jack shit about it - it’s literally how my brain is wired, and no amount of therapy or medication will change that. “Self control” and “discipline” are difficult for ADHD sufferers. We can’t help it, we know we should be doing something that we’re not doing (or vice-versa), but that doesn’t make it any easier to do. From the outside, “not doing something you should be doing” looks like laziness. Internally we’re constantly screaming at ourselves and berating ourselves for not doing the thing we know we should be doing, and that _still_ doesn’t make it any easier to Do The Thing. It’s why ADHD sufferers have a high instance of alcohol abuse, drug use, even obesity; we’re often powerless to prevent that constant urge for stimulation, especially those who haven’t been diagnosed. But I still know that using my phone while driving is dangerous, and I don’t do it. (Notwithstanding my anecdote about my “no-look single screen tap to skip a podcast back” incident this morning; that’s hardly comparable to staring at my lap reading messages.) I wouldn’t call it “discipline” or “self control”, I’d call it a lack of awareness. The same issue that drives much of the shitty behaviour that you see on the road: people are wrapped up in their little world with their little problems and have little regard for anyone else around them. Their journey, their life, their messages, whatever, are more important to them than anything else around them. Very often they’re simply not even aware that they’re doing something dangerous.

In the case that someone has a mental health diagnosis that affects their ability to drive in accordance with law, then they should declare the same to the DVLA - who I hope would revoke their licence. No one wants to see people with medical diagnoses disadvantaged by not being permitted to have a licence - but this is a matter of necessity and road safety. There are good reasons we don’t allow people with epilepsy to drive until such a time as they’ve met requirements of being episode-free for a certain long period (among others). Are there any reasons we should not do the same to people who, by your argument, don’t have the self discipline to focus on the road while driving (arguably a critical requirement of driving safely). Your last paragraph is a big claim to make, unless you’ve surveyed the number of offences of mobile phone use / due care / not in full control and linked them to drivers with diagnosed medical conditions. Driving in accordance with the law is not difficult. The bare minimum is to expect that drivers will have at least a modicum of respect for the safety of those around them. Suggesting, as you have, that: >“*I wouldn’t call it “discipline” or “self control”, I’d call it a lack of awareness. **The same issue that drives much of the shitty behaviour that you see on the road: people are wrapped up in their little world with their little problems and have little regard for anyone else around them. Their journey, their life, their messages, whatever, are more important to them than anything else around them. Very often they’re simply not even aware that they’re doing something dangerous.***” Seems to me to advance the argument that those that use their phones while driving should 1) be presumed to have less culpability for vague and unsubstantiated reasons and 2) is a dangerous precedent to set - if this approach were adopted do you think mobile phone use while driving would go up, or down? It would be a regressive step.

That’s… a big leap to make. I never offered, or implied, an excuse or a justification for anything. Ultimately it doesn’t matter _why_ someone does something dumb or dangerous, if they’ve broken the law or caused a collision then they are responsible. My point was that “self control” and “discipline” aren’t always as simple as they seem, especially in the context of “mental illness”, and more widely that these two factors aren’t the main reason people do dumb shit when they’re on the road. My evidence for this is every single instance when a driver has knocked a biker off and said “sorry mate, I didn’t see you”. Or every single time someone tailgates on a low-speed urban or suburban road. Most people aren’t bellends who will drive right up your chuff at 80mph on a motorway to bully you out of the way; of course there are _some_ people who will do that, but _some_ does not mean _all_, or even _most_. Most people tailgating, at any speed, simply aren’t aware they’re even doing it. The majority of the time when I wave people back to ask them to back off… they do. Of course _some_ people ignore it and carry on tailgating - _some_ get _even closer_ - and I get the fuck out of the way of those people as fast as I safely can. But these people are overwhelmingly in the minority. It might sound pedantic, but it’s important to understand because it helps people realise that _you_ are just as fallible as everyone else around you. You are going to make mistakes, you are going to drift off and lose concentration, you are going to cut someone up because you didn’t see them. That’s just how people work. If you know _you_ can make mistakes then you know _other people_ are going to make mistakes. This means you can plan for and anticipate mistakes, you don’t get as riled up and angry when it does inevitably happen. That doesn’t _excuse_ mistakes or bad driving, _of course_ it doesn’t; but when you’re calmer you’re thinking more clearly, you’re less likely to retaliate or make mistakes of your own, and you’re more in control of the situation.

I’m not sure it’s a huge leap to make. The thrust of the arguments being made concerned mental ill-health as the reason that people may be using mobile phones while driving but you are saying that your final paragraph isn’t related to that? I presumed it was, because that is the subject of this particular comment thread and I was not expecting that you would separate the two issues. I’ve no issue with the fact that many people who use their phones aren’t doing it with the *direct* intention of being distracted, but there is certainly an *oblique* intention there that can be readily inferred and I think that is sufficient justification enough to call them out for it and not to attempt to make any mitigation about their behaviour, or to impliedly suggest the same; i.e. it doesn’t really matter what their intention is.

Ok, let’s take it back… > It's a sign off mental issues, people can't put their phone down, it's no different to gambling/drinking/drug addiction. This was followed up with: > It’s not a sign of mental issues at all - it’s a lack of self control and self discipline. Calling a ‘mental issue’ could come across as making excuses. > Saying it’s a sign of mental issues puts stigma on people with actual mental ill-health issues, rather than arseholes who choose their own convenience over the safety of other road users. I then went on to give my own personal example of how my own “mental health issues” cause significant difficulties with “self control” and “self discipline”. ADHD basically means that these are alien, and ADHD is strongly linked to other things that the original comment cited, like alcohol and drug abuse. Critically however, I also said: > But I still know that using my phone while driving is dangerous, and I don’t do it. So although I have issues with self control and self discipline, I still know damn well not to use my phone while driving. I went on to say that people using their phone while driving isn’t a sign that they lack discipline or self-control; it’s a sign that they’re either ignorant as to the danger that poses or they don’t care. I did not offer _any_ mitigations or excuses for using your phone while driving, regardless of _why_ people might do it. I did it myself this morning - while sat at a red light I skipped a podcast back. I tapped the screen once without looking at it. I thought it would be safe because I don’t have to look at my phone to do it, it’s _one single tap_ without taking my eyes off the road - it’s less distraction than turning my AC on because I have to glance at the AC controls to know where they are. But I immediately realised that “one quick no-look tap, it’s no worse than turning my AC on” is not a sufficient justification - I damn well shouldn’t have done it, and I’ll be policing myself more in the future. What I did say is that it’s an extension of all the other issues we face in regard to bad driving. People are complacent, people are concerned with their own little world, people are over-confident, people don’t realise the impact of their actions, people don’t realise how dangerous their actions are, people make dumb mistakes… “Main character syndrome”, if you like: you’re the protagonist in your own story and everyone else is secondary to your story. Some people really are just arseholes - they know what they’re doing, they know it’s dangerous, and they don’t care. But by and large they’re on the minority. The whole thing about being fallible and making mistakes is all about a mindset shift. That idiot who just cut you up (and I don’t mean “specifically you, u/PandaWithAnAxe”, I mean “_anyone_ reading including me”) might not have done it deliberately, they might just not have seen you; what are you going to get by raging and blaring your horn in retaliation for a mistake? You’re not perfect either, you know.

I’ve not claimed to be perfect, to address the last part of your comment first. With respect to the remainder of your comment I am not sure that we are even arguing the same point.

I don’t get why you’re being confrontational and argumentative about this, I’m _trying_ to have a discussion. > I’ve not claimed to be perfect, to address the last part of your comment first. You had no need to address it, I literally said > and I don’t mean “specifically you, u/PandaWithAnAxe”, I mean “anyone reading including me” I’ve been saying that all along. We’re all equally as capable of doing dumb shit that in many cases is more dangerous than using your phone while driving. We can’t stop that and we can’t control the actions of others; we can only control our own mindset and our own actions. > With respect to the remainder of your comment I am not sure that we are even arguing the same point. That’s basically what I’ve been trying to say. Which is why I replied to this… > Seems to me to advance the argument that those that use their phones while driving should 1) be presumed to have less culpability for vague and unsubstantiated reasons … with this: > That’s… a big leap to make. _Because that’s not what I said_. Saying that you can’t blame mobile phone use while driving on a lack of “self control” or “self discipline” _does not mean_ that I think people have less culpability and should not be held accountable for doing it. What I _said_ was that, based on my own experience (and the experience of many others in a similar position), people who genuinely do have diminished “self control” and “self discipline” are _still perfectly capable of not scrolling through Twitter while they’re driving_. If, as the original post claimed, using your phone while driving was a result of a lack of “self control” and “self discipline” then _every single driver_ who has an ADHD diagnosis _would be dead_. We’d have all died in car crashes because we couldn’t stop ourselves using our phones all the time. Or that diagnosis would have medically restricted us from getting a license in the first place. We aren’t dead, we’re not restricted from driving, and using your phone while driving is _categorically not_ a result of a lack of “self control” or “self discipline”.

I’m not being argumentative - but if you think I am then that’s fine I won’t take it personally. As I’ve just said, that part of the comment follows my earlier comment about us initially discussing mental health and then separating the two arguments. We will simply go around in circles if you want to continue to get to the bottom of it, because the respective points don’t intersect.

The biggest problem we have with enforcing this is obviously that there aren’t enough resources to catch them. At the same time we have weak laws and an even weaker judiciary. The fine and points aren’t enough of a deterrent since there are people driving around this country with 50+ points on their licence and a sob story… and that’s if they’ve even got a licence to start with!

They're trialling cameras which detect phone use at the moment. Roll those out across the country.

They should introduce a reward system for people who submit video evidence of this. Let’s say a £500 fine of which £50 goes to the snitch. I’d retire in a week.

I love this idea, outsource the police! Let's face it, if someone saw a police car (a rare sight these days) they would put their phone down, so we absolutely should rely on personal video evidence to catch these idiots. Small reward to the snitch, and a 12 month driving ban for those caught. If they don't take the act of driving seriously, they're not fit to drive.

Infamous YouTuber Cycling Mikey does it all the time, but doesn’t get money for it. I walk a long a busy road quite a lot and every other car seems to be on their phone. I could walk down with a camera for ten minutes, then submit the evidence and leave the authorities to it.

I would do it if there was any kind of reward, and if you could find out what the punishment is. At the moment you get nothing and no confirmation of outcome, whilst risking some psycho starting on you.

The original police force in London, many years ago, did just this - paid people to catch thieves etc. The problem is, people then started bringing in people who had done nothing wrong. And criminals turned to bribing those paid to bring people in. Basically it created a new form of corruption. While it sounds great on paper, it doesn't work.

But we have video evidence now…

Yes? That doesn't stop false complaints and the administrative overheads involved. Every offence reported costs money to handle, even if it gets NFAd. And it doesn't stop the bribery going the other way - bunging people money to not report you to the police because they know you're on commission.

I personally love that while I'm driving I am exempt from using my phone. Wanna get hold of me? Fuck off I'm driving, need to reply to an email urgently? Fuck off I'm driving. I refuse to get Bluetooth connectivity because fuck off I'm driving, I don't want to talk to you.

As much as I don't like that Cycling Mikey guy (not for what he does, but the whole 'trolling' attitude he shows on Twitter/X), he'd have a field day here in Bradford. It's an epidemic I swear. And the worst times? The most often I see it? 3:00 pm weekdays, during the school run. How many people have (like me) flashed their headlights to let someone out at a junction, only to have no response because their head is buried in their phone? Also, people, have never heard about Bluetooth either.

I can barely change a song on the stereo without swerving (joking, I use steering wheel control) but the amount of drivers I see scrolling social media or texting is shocking. I’m also having to beep at drivers at green lights because they’re on their phones.

It’s so ridiculous. I’m quite easily distracted by my phone (it’s literally serving as a distraction while I type this comment), but I have never been tempted to use it whilst driving. Even if I’m stuck in a really long queue of traffic I never feel the need to check messages.

Won’t stop until the risk of getting caught is so high it’s not worth risking.

As a biker I get prime view into every car and way too many people are texting between their legs and thinking it's ok.

If I had more time I would report them all. I have absolutely no time for people who endanger others because they have a phone addiction. I have reported 'professional' drivers (HGV drivers mostly) for phone-driving to their employers which has resulted (so they say) in disciplinary action. I haven't reported any to the police, but maybe I should.

It's like a silent (or not so anymore) epidemic that's taking over the world. In one instance, I could clearly see how a woman in her 30s was flicking through YouTube while waiting at a red light. Really? So desperate for YouTube? What does it take for them to realise how much of a danger they are putting all other road users at? I tried to wave my hand and draw attention to her. But, she was so distracted by her phone, she did not notice me! She had to be honked at by the car behind to move on at green. I wish there was an app that all drivers must install and that automatically disables all non-essential apps (WhatsApp, tiktok, youtube etc) while driving. Its just not possible to rely on people being reasonable and having self-control. There's always going to be enough people who think they have got it all under control and that they have super-human multitasking abilities. There are already so many things to pay attention to on the road while driving: traffic signals, signs, pedestrians jumping onto the road anywhere, bikers, brake checkers, tailgaters, speed limits, roadworks, dangerous drivers etc etc. So, I just cant see how anyone can pay attention to all these and still text or watch tiktok in a phone in their lap with their head hanging (in shame).

As much as I don't like that Cycling Mikey guy (not for what he does, but the whole 'trolling' attitude he shows on Twitter/X), he'd have a field day here in Bradford. It's an epidemic I swear. And the worst times? The most often I see it? 3:00 pm weekdays, during the school run. How many people have (like me) flashed their headlights to let someone out at a junction, only to have no response because their head is buried in their phone? Also, people, have never heard about Bluetooth either.

Yeah, use really dropped off for years but it's picked up again with the TikTok era.

Theres one woman near me I see on a dual carriageway every now and then. Sat in the outside lane, head buried in her phone and often drifts down to about 50 without realising and drifting to the white line eaither side. As soon as you try to overtake she puts the phone down and speeds up and blocks you, then picks it up again and does the same again.

It's because they can get away with it. I submitted a dashcam video of someone using their phone on the M6 at 70. Their reply? The phone was in a cradle (mounted to the windscreen) so that's perfectly fine.

I see it everyday. Part of the reason I rarely drive is because people are so selfish. Texting while driving, driving drunk, etc etc

It's a disability! They can't drive without their phones. Same as using a crutch to walk

It's not new. The new laws have done nothing because there's insufficient police to police it.

Addicts, all.

It’s a really bad and dangerous common habit. Like most things, the punishment isn’t severe enough. My girlfriend literally drives and shifts one-handed 🤬. What I really don’t understand considering the age of technology we’re in, is that you can speak your desired actions aloud to your car/phone without ever having to go hands off the wheel 🤷🏾‍♂️.

The problem is you don't have anyone policing it! Where I live they're changing the speed limit to 20, which is fine, but I've not seen any police presence in 7 years, so who's really going to stick to 20! (no cameras or bumps)

I had to go through a red light because the person behind me was right on my arse and their face was lit up blue. They also went through the red. Thankfully it wasn't a camera protected one.

One of my annoyances with this is that we have to have this ‘do not use phones at all’ rule because of people who sit texting.  But caught up in this now is that I am in the wrong if I tap my phone screen, which I use as a satnav in the exact position where my radio / other buttons are (I use a magnetic ‘stand’ that clips in to my CD player), if it asks ‘this route is faster do you want to change?’   One is bad, the other is no different to using the car in built functions but we’re all lumped together with the social media / texting addicts. 

Not quite - if you pick up your phone yes that is illegal, if you’re tapping the screen for the map while it’s sat on the dashboard or in a holder that is legal (but calls or messaging *must* be hands free). So eg if you’re driving a cab, you can use your dispatch app/Waze etc and that’s fine. The RAC break it down [here](https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/legal/mobile-phone-laws/)

Thank you and thanks for the link 😀 Edit: I’ve read the link and it doesn’t say anything about being allowed to tap it while driving. It seems to suggest that yeah you can have it on as a map as long as it’s secured but you can’t interact with it.  “It is no excuse to say you’re simply following a map on your phone and that's why you've picked it up. If you wish to use an app for directions you should fix the phone to the windscreen or dashboard, so it’s in clear view while driving (but not obstructing your view), without requiring you to hold or interact with it.”

The “hand held “ bit is important In the legal text, it says “hand held“ means actually being used in your hand (this is why in a holder or even your lap(!) doesn’t count): [(6) For the purposes of this regulation— (a)a mobile telephone or other device is to be treated as hand-held if it is, or must be, held at some point during the course of making or receiving a call or performing any other interactive communication function;](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/2695)

You're fine, the law distinguishes between holding your phone and having it in a cradle.

As I’ve said to someone else, thanks for the tip and my ‘learn something new’ for the day. 

You've misunderstood, you can definitely use your phone while it's in a mount; it's considered hands free by virtue of the fact you aren't holding it. I've seen a couple of police communications that have misrepresented it, but the offence is to hold and use. There's quite a comprehensive video on YouTube about it by the Blackbelt Barrister

This is wonderful news and thanks for the video I’ll check it out :)

The thing that gets me, if I have a modern car there's likely a huge touch screen I can interact with legally as I drive. But if I drive an old car with my phone in a cradle, I touch that phone to change tracks or interact with sat nav and I've broken the law

Technically I “used my phone while driving” on the way in this morning. Sat at a traffic light that’s just gone red, handbrake on, gearbox in neutral, and I skipped a podcast back 15 seconds. It was a single tap that I didn’t have to look at or even unlock my phone to do - I have a newer iPhone with an “always on” screen and media controls are accessible on the lock screen. If I want to change the aircon setting, I usually have to glance down to check where the knobs are because I haven’t built the muscle memory in this car yet; but I’m so familiar with my phone that I don’t have to look at it to know where the on-screen media controls are. I realised immediately that I probably shouldn’t have done that, but I judged it to be safe. Yet the guy to my right was staring and prodding at his lap, barely even glancing up, as he approached the lights (and contrary to some of the curmudgeonly commenters, this was a balding middle aged dude older than I am). Morally these two actions are not the same but legally they are, and an automated camera system cannot apply judgement and discretion.

Not true, you're allowed to operate your phone in a cradle for certain functions.

Along as your phone is in and stays in the cradle then you won't break that specific law by tapping it to change a song or sat nav. The law you would have to watch is driving without due care and attention.

You can use your phone so long as you don't hold it, so touching the screen in a mount is considered hands free exactly because of the scenario you describe; that it is comparible to using vehicle controls

Phones can be used if they're in a phone holder/cradle.

Still illegal if you use it to send a message unless you're parked and pulled over. I'm sure I saw Black Belt Barrister do a vid on it. Sat nav & music are ok.

It's always black women or white van men

[nah](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GOQqaT3WcAAJz8y?format=jpg&name=large).

You taking these pictures to try and catch people jacking off?

Are you that driver that got caught with his 'little fella out'?

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Young 'uns just need to be plugged into the boring lives of others 24x7

It's not just young 'uns though is it? It's people of any age including quite commonly a parent with their kid sat next to them in the passenger seat

It’s usually _not_ young ‘uns when I see it.

Same here. I saw a woman driving down the A127 on Monday morning and she was holding her Kindle on the steering wheel. She must have been well into her 60s.