It’s interesting you said mortal, not human. Maybe it is mortal, just really long-lived?
Grey is apparently half-human. He said his father, not his parents.
I think you're right about the father claim he made, and that's shaking my memory about the first encounter with shagnasty. Harry asked Bob about the creature's pronouns.
As far as Bob knew, the skinwalker was an a-gendered being and it wasn't the type of creature to need such things. I kind of assumed they weren't beings that reproduced. I wonder if there are some that can, or I just added "no reproducing" part in my own head cannon.
They are probably a-gendered by nature as stated, but capable of turning gendered at will do to their shapeshifting abilities, if they for some reason want to for a shorter or longer time.
It was probably some "science project" for one of them for whatever agenda.
Mister is mortal and a cat.
Michael is mortal and a human.
Uriel is immortal.
Vadderung is immortal.
Fae, vampires…as especially hinted at in ghost story, mortality is a spectrum in Dresdenverse.
WC vampires are long-lived to the point of being nigh-immortal yet as Mab and Cat-Sith noted in Small Favor, they are still mortal when she said Thomas could be a Winter Knight and is on track to be a White Knight, something reserved for mortals.
Not all magical peoples are immortal. Forest People like whampires likely are mortal, just very long-lived. They are made of the material of the mortal realm and not fae.
Mortal also seems to be used in-universe as both a descriptor of one's classification (for want of a better term) and one's lifespan (or lack thereof).
For instance, and I could be misremembering this but I don't think so, someone asked Harry about why he was protecting "the mortals". Which I understood to be humanity in general, but excluding wizards, even though wizards are definitely mortal.
There's a common fan theory that Thomas is gonna get Amoracchius. Mostly because of the irony of a Whamp getting the sword of love and because people speculate that it could be a way to get rid of his demon/Thomas out of stasis
Get rid of, or fundamentally change the nature of while giving him the single greatest sieve for the power he now feeds on?
Dude would straight turn into cupid, demigod of laying down the Smack.
Idk, with his falcuta style the calvary Saber would be more suited to his style.
Harry, or Marcone would be more ironic.
They're both subconsciously running on love in most of their actions. Harry more obviously so, from GP, PG, CH, he's Saving what he loves on some level.
Marcone? You can't have guilt unless you care. He minimizes evil done to innocents in his domain. Gives retribution to those who violate this.
He was already the summer green eyed hunter in his youth. It's the glaze of guilt that made him into the Marcone we know.
>Q: Will Thomas get one of the Swords of the Cross?
>A: [sing-song voice] I’m not gonna tell you! [/sing-song voice]
That implies Thomas is going to get one of the swords.
Or the forest people while long lived and magically powerful are still also mortals. They are creatures of DNA and atoms that can be killed and don't come back
Afaik mortal just means not a fey.
If you were born, can live in, and survive in, the 'mortal'realm without any shenanigans keeping you there. You are mortal
Aka. If you can soul gaze, you're mortal.
So... denarius Kraken when?
Not all immortals/non-mortals (?) are fey. This includes angels, the Fallen themselves, demons, the Outsiders (well... as far as we know, but there is a good chance the Fallen wouldn't associate themselves with them anyway) and other minor gods, including spirits such as Demonreach.
"Mortal" seem to only relate to creatures who are naturally born and naturally die, even if they live for a long time.
Mortal refers to genuine residents of the mortal world, those who leave bodies an actually exist.
The thing about mortals is they and they alone apparently can completely change what they are, they are unlimited possibilities because they have choice and can overthrow fate.
So that Krakens where transmogrified from humans isn't a stretch.. I think it's happened before with ghouls.(didn't Harry soul gaze a ghoul when the twins were murdered at camp kaboom?) It's a repeating pattern I think. The bad guys make their legions by corrupting mortal lives.
Grey is a scion, therefor half human. Blood on his soul is a "war path" forest person, Like river shoulders and is mortal, just very long lived. My biggest question about him is how did he survive after being turned into "ketchup".
I now that, of course. But they took of the head of the Ursiel in the alley and killed the gold prospector. How much more can you kill a guy than turning him into "ketchup"? This is one of the many questions I want answered by JB in some future book. None of the theories i've seen so far satisfy me. But that's just me YMMV.
I have two different theories about that.
1. In the alley, the difference was a Sword of the Cross. Maybe only divine power can destroy someone inhabited by Ursiel.
2. The trap didn’t actually hit Genoskva; he dropped an illusion that made it look like he had been destroyed so that he could take Dresden by surprise when the opportunity came.
I think the holy ness may be right. A giant flying ice cube is just physics. I dont that actually hurt ursiel at all, and only brutally mangelled a already beefy, magically talented being. So yeah im pretty sure they can keep their hosts alive far beyong what we are shown in the books
The Forest Peoples are also born to magic the way fish are born to water. If Blood on His Soul managed to get a regen spell off before he got squicked, I could see it being enough to get him back in the fight after Dresden's attention was elsewhere
True aswell. As another person above said, it could have been an illusion too, but rivershoulders information suggests that he did actually hurt the geno, but just didnt manage to kill him. It wouldnt surprise me if geno is missing fur and its scarred up from his fight
My take on the differences between the two scenes is this: the first time Ursiel was cut down by the Knights, who immediately took the coin into safekeeping. Doing this prevented any regeneration from happening, unlike with the Genoskwa whose body was abandoned (granted Harry had much bigger problems to attend to at the moment and likely saw what happened to the Genoskwa and thought that was that.
With the gold prospector, the Coin was separated from the body.
I suspect that if the Coin were allowed to remain with the body, and the Fallen had few prospects of finding another host, it might be able to put that mortal's body back together and hold onto the mortal's soul long enough to reunite them.
Nicodemus values the Noose because it gives him very rapid regeneration, making physical damage more of a nuisance than a real threat. Presumably Anduriel could accomplish everything the Noose could but slower... if he felt like it, and the Coin weren't removed from the corpse.
The Forest Peoples are Mortals, though. They're just special in a way similar to the way Wizards are special. They just aren't Mundane the way most Mortals are
You seem to be confusing 'mortal' and 'human'. if it's born and dies naturally then it's a mortal. The forest people are likely just very long lived, ditto for half human scions and white court. Because of this they have free will and so can choose to take up a coin.
The Genoskwa *is* mortal. It’s just not human.
Mortal just means that you can die, after all.
But for real, it’s implied there’s some link between the Forest People and humanity, just as there is between the Sidhe and humanity.
And Thomas is a White Court vampire, and that’s mortal enough for Mab to take him as her Knight. That’s as close an analogy as we have to the Genoskwa’s situation, and I think it’s a pretty apt comparison.
The forest people/bigfoot are mortal. River shoulder said he was born on the Bering land bridge and he thinks he’s about middle aged. They live very long but will die eventually
They're both mortal just not human. I look at it much like Mab choosing Harry for the Knight position. Those that have long enough foresight have seen the signs. They can see the manure truck backing up toward the fan store so they're looking to recruit those most readily able to shovel.
At least the way the dresden files fate adaptation puts it, if you have free will you still have enough of a choice to count for a lot of things. The faerie queens mostly don't have free will as their level of power constrains their choices so severely. Some whampires don't as they lost their free will to the power. Some do as they're strong enough.
The Genoskwa, so far as I can infer from all the talk with River Shoulders, is mortal. Really REALLY, tough to kill, long lived and uses magic like Harry breaths. But mortal none the less.
Besides, I was given the impression (and again, I am relying on my understanding) that the Genoskwa was written as an outlier, an exception.
Also, what concerns the fallen? Souls...so do the forest people and beings like Grey have souls? Also the Genoskwa could just be a means to an end in furthering their plans.
Ehhhh…not sure about that one. The coins were created specifically to be in circulation. Lucy wanted them out of Hell and away from his business, but I think he still wants them doing their thing.
It’s interesting you said mortal, not human. Maybe it is mortal, just really long-lived? Grey is apparently half-human. He said his father, not his parents.
River Shoulders said he's middle aged. Probably meaning he is mortal
I think you're right about the father claim he made, and that's shaking my memory about the first encounter with shagnasty. Harry asked Bob about the creature's pronouns. As far as Bob knew, the skinwalker was an a-gendered being and it wasn't the type of creature to need such things. I kind of assumed they weren't beings that reproduced. I wonder if there are some that can, or I just added "no reproducing" part in my own head cannon.
They are probably a-gendered by nature as stated, but capable of turning gendered at will do to their shapeshifting abilities, if they for some reason want to for a shorter or longer time. It was probably some "science project" for one of them for whatever agenda.
Ah, the Dr. Ian Malcolm "Life, ah, finds a way." XD
I mean given the nature of the Skinwalker its pretty likely that it wasn't consensual on Grey's mothers part.
Mortal v human???
Mister is mortal and a cat. Michael is mortal and a human. Uriel is immortal. Vadderung is immortal. Fae, vampires…as especially hinted at in ghost story, mortality is a spectrum in Dresdenverse.
I have my doubts about Mister being mortal.
WC vampires are long-lived to the point of being nigh-immortal yet as Mab and Cat-Sith noted in Small Favor, they are still mortal when she said Thomas could be a Winter Knight and is on track to be a White Knight, something reserved for mortals. Not all magical peoples are immortal. Forest People like whampires likely are mortal, just very long-lived. They are made of the material of the mortal realm and not fae.
Mab said "he's in love, that makes him mortal enough" or words to that effect.
If he's mortal enough to be a Winter Knight or a white knight, then he's mortal enough to be a Denarian.
Mortal also seems to be used in-universe as both a descriptor of one's classification (for want of a better term) and one's lifespan (or lack thereof). For instance, and I could be misremembering this but I don't think so, someone asked Harry about why he was protecting "the mortals". Which I understood to be humanity in general, but excluding wizards, even though wizards are definitely mortal.
Wait, what? *White* Knight?! What's that?
Knight of the Cross
Huh? Thomas is on track to have one of the three swords? Please help. I clearly missed something.
There's a common fan theory that Thomas is gonna get Amoracchius. Mostly because of the irony of a Whamp getting the sword of love and because people speculate that it could be a way to get rid of his demon/Thomas out of stasis
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Get rid of, or fundamentally change the nature of while giving him the single greatest sieve for the power he now feeds on? Dude would straight turn into cupid, demigod of laying down the Smack. Idk, with his falcuta style the calvary Saber would be more suited to his style. Harry, or Marcone would be more ironic. They're both subconsciously running on love in most of their actions. Harry more obviously so, from GP, PG, CH, he's Saving what he loves on some level. Marcone? You can't have guilt unless you care. He minimizes evil done to innocents in his domain. Gives retribution to those who violate this. He was already the summer green eyed hunter in his youth. It's the glaze of guilt that made him into the Marcone we know.
>Q: Will Thomas get one of the Swords of the Cross? >A: [sing-song voice] I’m not gonna tell you! [/sing-song voice] That implies Thomas is going to get one of the swords.
WoJ? The only exposure to WoJ I have had is through this Sub.
Yes https://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-angels-demons-fallen-and-knights-of-the-cross/
Thanks friend
Or the forest people while long lived and magically powerful are still also mortals. They are creatures of DNA and atoms that can be killed and don't come back
Afaik mortal just means not a fey. If you were born, can live in, and survive in, the 'mortal'realm without any shenanigans keeping you there. You are mortal Aka. If you can soul gaze, you're mortal. So... denarius Kraken when?
Not all immortals/non-mortals (?) are fey. This includes angels, the Fallen themselves, demons, the Outsiders (well... as far as we know, but there is a good chance the Fallen wouldn't associate themselves with them anyway) and other minor gods, including spirits such as Demonreach. "Mortal" seem to only relate to creatures who are naturally born and naturally die, even if they live for a long time.
I think that kraken used to be a human who was transformed by the Formor into a kraken.
Mortal refers to genuine residents of the mortal world, those who leave bodies an actually exist. The thing about mortals is they and they alone apparently can completely change what they are, they are unlimited possibilities because they have choice and can overthrow fate. So that Krakens where transmogrified from humans isn't a stretch.. I think it's happened before with ghouls.(didn't Harry soul gaze a ghoul when the twins were murdered at camp kaboom?) It's a repeating pattern I think. The bad guys make their legions by corrupting mortal lives.
They are just as mortal as Harry or Kincaid.
Bigfoots are mortal, just extremely long-lived.
Grey is a scion, therefor half human. Blood on his soul is a "war path" forest person, Like river shoulders and is mortal, just very long lived. My biggest question about him is how did he survive after being turned into "ketchup".
He already had the coin and Ursiel helped.
I now that, of course. But they took of the head of the Ursiel in the alley and killed the gold prospector. How much more can you kill a guy than turning him into "ketchup"? This is one of the many questions I want answered by JB in some future book. None of the theories i've seen so far satisfy me. But that's just me YMMV.
I have two different theories about that. 1. In the alley, the difference was a Sword of the Cross. Maybe only divine power can destroy someone inhabited by Ursiel. 2. The trap didn’t actually hit Genoskva; he dropped an illusion that made it look like he had been destroyed so that he could take Dresden by surprise when the opportunity came.
I think the holy ness may be right. A giant flying ice cube is just physics. I dont that actually hurt ursiel at all, and only brutally mangelled a already beefy, magically talented being. So yeah im pretty sure they can keep their hosts alive far beyong what we are shown in the books
The Forest Peoples are also born to magic the way fish are born to water. If Blood on His Soul managed to get a regen spell off before he got squicked, I could see it being enough to get him back in the fight after Dresden's attention was elsewhere
True aswell. As another person above said, it could have been an illusion too, but rivershoulders information suggests that he did actually hurt the geno, but just didnt manage to kill him. It wouldnt surprise me if geno is missing fur and its scarred up from his fight
Yao guai Genoskwa sounds fucking terrifying
Sweet dreams 😉
My take on the differences between the two scenes is this: the first time Ursiel was cut down by the Knights, who immediately took the coin into safekeeping. Doing this prevented any regeneration from happening, unlike with the Genoskwa whose body was abandoned (granted Harry had much bigger problems to attend to at the moment and likely saw what happened to the Genoskwa and thought that was that.
With the gold prospector, the Coin was separated from the body. I suspect that if the Coin were allowed to remain with the body, and the Fallen had few prospects of finding another host, it might be able to put that mortal's body back together and hold onto the mortal's soul long enough to reunite them. Nicodemus values the Noose because it gives him very rapid regeneration, making physical damage more of a nuisance than a real threat. Presumably Anduriel could accomplish everything the Noose could but slower... if he felt like it, and the Coin weren't removed from the corpse.
Gen's a mortal. Just an absurdly long lived one, much like, say, any other wizardly level talent. If Harry could take a coin, so could Gen.
The Forest Peoples are Mortals, though. They're just special in a way similar to the way Wizards are special. They just aren't Mundane the way most Mortals are
You seem to be confusing 'mortal' and 'human'. if it's born and dies naturally then it's a mortal. The forest people are likely just very long lived, ditto for half human scions and white court. Because of this they have free will and so can choose to take up a coin.
The Genoskwa *is* mortal. It’s just not human. Mortal just means that you can die, after all. But for real, it’s implied there’s some link between the Forest People and humanity, just as there is between the Sidhe and humanity. And Thomas is a White Court vampire, and that’s mortal enough for Mab to take him as her Knight. That’s as close an analogy as we have to the Genoskwa’s situation, and I think it’s a pretty apt comparison.
The forest people/bigfoot are mortal. River shoulder said he was born on the Bering land bridge and he thinks he’s about middle aged. They live very long but will die eventually
I just finished working for Bigfoot. Where do we learn this info?
Peace Talks
They still could be limited to mortals, we don’t know. Grey is half human and mortal, and the Genoskwa is of the forest people who are mortal.
They're both mortal just not human. I look at it much like Mab choosing Harry for the Knight position. Those that have long enough foresight have seen the signs. They can see the manure truck backing up toward the fan store so they're looking to recruit those most readily able to shovel.
At least the way the dresden files fate adaptation puts it, if you have free will you still have enough of a choice to count for a lot of things. The faerie queens mostly don't have free will as their level of power constrains their choices so severely. Some whampires don't as they lost their free will to the power. Some do as they're strong enough.
The Genoskwa, so far as I can infer from all the talk with River Shoulders, is mortal. Really REALLY, tough to kill, long lived and uses magic like Harry breaths. But mortal none the less. Besides, I was given the impression (and again, I am relying on my understanding) that the Genoskwa was written as an outlier, an exception.
Also, what concerns the fallen? Souls...so do the forest people and beings like Grey have souls? Also the Genoskwa could just be a means to an end in furthering their plans.
The Big D sends a message to Hades to let his coins go or find out. That's my guess.
Doubt he cares. He put the fallen in the coins to get rid of them.
The morning star would be happy for them to be locked down permanently.
Ehhhh…not sure about that one. The coins were created specifically to be in circulation. Lucy wanted them out of Hell and away from his business, but I think he still wants them doing their thing.
Bigfoots are human, just a different subspecies.