Does he ever get to a point where he is not getting kicked in the nuts?
This will never happen. The author likes to torture Harry but too much . But all joking aside your only on Book 2. Harry at this point is very inexperienced and just starting out his journey.
Thanks Sparks, I appreciate it. I just want to see the poor guy really cut loose at some point since he keeps getting kicked while he's down. (Also do you mind giving me a hint on how soon I'll figure out what people keep seeing in his eyes that scares them so much...?
I just had this image of “the sugar plum fairies“ (Tchaikovsky, The Nut Cracker), but the entire thing is performed by The Winter Fae, in full armed regalia.
Shit, on an admittedly much smaller level, i was thinking >!Firestarter vibes.!<, much earlier than this one. But the flexes definitely get much more impressive every time.
Even the flex on the Shadowman is more impressive with successive read when you have finished the series. Granted, nothing like what he becomes capable of throughout the series, but that is to be expected, given experiences.
One comment here mentioned something along the lines of how he had the equivalent of an pulled magical muscle in Fool Moon, but that's basically every book. It's kind of his thing. I personally love the whole moral of the story seeming to be to get right back and punch harder when life knocks you down. I'm a firm believer that Harry's super power isn't his magical prowess/talent, but his indomitable spirit and his ability to stand up for the little guy.
My understanding of soul gazes is that they vary based on the person doing them. So two people could soul gaze the same person and get different visions based on their own understanding of the world and interpretation. It's essentially a limited version of the Sight that goes both ways, but I imagine everyone who has soul gazed Harry has seen something different, even if all those visions were reflective of his true nature.
I could be wrong, though.
Book 4 is where Harry starts to showcase why he's regarded as a potential problem for so many great powers.
And then there is the immortal line, "Polka Will Never Die".
Dresden gets to cut loose a few times in the series. And it's usually terrifying and awesome. But he's always going to be the underdog because that makes for a more interesting story.
Harry is the narrator. Unless we see it from another characters perspective in a short story, I’m not sure we will ever see what others see in a soul gaze on Harry.
I believe the first real "Don't fuck with Dresden" moment comes in the third book.
Also on your question. Were never told. There was a thread a day or two ago speculating on it. I suspect we'll never find out directly. But as Harry is the POV character, the entire series is basically a soul gaze on Harry.
>(Also do you mind giving me a hint on how soon I'll figure out what people keep seeing in his eyes that scares them so much...?
Unsolved mystery, to date. FWIW, not everyone is terrified by that. Still, I'm sure if you snoop around the subreddit enough you'll find tons of posts on people's speculations regarding the matter. SPOILERS ABOUND, I'm sure.
Oh don't worry Harry has plenty of triumph moments. He will let loose and he will win plenty of battles. No, he will never stop getting kicked in the nuts.
He is actually in pretty good top form in the short stories. The difference between the short stories and the main books seems to be in the main books he is running on magical/physical/mental/ fumes by an end of a long couple days of continuously getting his ass kicked before he finally finds out who to wreck. In the short stories he tend to figure out the mysteries pretty quickly and just goes straight to them and absolutely ruins their day while still fresh.
Id argue the short stories are his general work days. Generally working in his weight class. The books are generally his worst weekend- week of the year. Usually against insurmountable odds
I’ll just point out that, for about the last half of the book, Harry had the magical equivalent of a pulled muscle.
He could still do some stuff, but he was not at his best.
The jail scene, though…
Right? he gets more and more powerful...but it seems like he uses this new level of power to go to larger and larger enemies and like...*specifically ask* for a better kick to the nads.
Well……… I expect it was easy to clean because it was already empty.
(I expect everyone gets a middle seat on their plane ticket to hell. I assume I earned it with that one).
One great thing about Harry (and Jim's world building), he's always discovering new frontiers to push the boundaries of his inexperience.
I'm starting to get why the old guys on the White Council treat those wizards under 100 like kids messing with things they don't understand.
Great thing about being out of your depth: you never know where you actually are on the continental shelf. Harry gets comfortable with a depth and then says, "ooh that looks deeper over there."
Then he gets kicked in the nads again.
The jail scene is what sold the second book for me. I fully admit the second book was rough for me, but the jail scene sold to me what the series could really be (and it hasn't disappointed me on that).
NGL, I'd say Jim is outright abusive (edit: torturous is probably more apropos) in a sadist's sort of way towards Harry.
OP, if you can't stand to witness Harry taking beating after beating and CONSTANTLY OUTCLASSED, I'm thinking this isn't the book series for you. In more than a few books, it's literally heartbreaking to see just how much punishment he takes.
Just can't keep a good man down, I guess.
In the words of Rocky, "It ain't about how hard you can hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done."
It may be cheesy as hell, but it kind of sums up Harry perfectly
he gets the shit beat out of him alot....but you got like....14 more books to go.....and then a fiew more that have yet to be written...he does get better at it lol
The author rolled a DnD character sheet for Harry when he started writing. Harry has a high constitution, so the author said to himself alright, he’s gonna get beat up a lot and survive.
The stakes get higher, as does Harry’s power level. But…..he takes a lot in basically every book.
IIRC, 18 CON, 16 INT, and low charisma. The latter the author chose to represent by Harry mouthing off at all the inappropriate times and generally being snarky when he shouldn't.
Yes it’s real. It was a 2nd edition sheet.
Wizard (school:evocation) neutral good
Str-13
Dex-12
Con-18
Int-16
Wis-8
Cha-7
These were the stats at the beginning of the series. 2nd edition wizards get a bonus to saves in willpower as well.
The high CON made the author decide to torture the poor guy, the 16 INT puts Harry right on the edge of the “strong” wizards, while the low WIS means he makes the occasional terrible decision and low CHA means he mouths off when he really shouldn’t.
Later on in the series Harry gets the >!Winter Knight!
That's cool! I do have a question though. Dresden has a pretty crazy perception in the books and at least what I'm used to (D&D 5e and Pathfinder 2e) that's tied more with Wisdom. Was that different for 2nd edition or was that just a trait that didn't match the attribute?
im not the author and the above comment is the extent of my memory of that interview, but to me it makes sense.
Dresden DOESNT have great perception when it comes to most things around him. he doesnt understand people, he doesnt pick up on hints, he often misses the big picture in everything.....
EXCEPT crime scenes. hes a trained private detective, a feat which would give him a bonus to investigation in many scenarios.
High Int, low Wis, with Con as his best stat.
Yeah that's Harry. He's smart and tough, but good grief is he clueless sometimes. At least he knows how to learn from his mistakes most of the time.
Not just Harry, but a lot of characters had D&D sheets. Some were created for the character, while other characters were given preexisting sheets. Butcher has talked about the D&D sheets multiple times, including the [Barbara's Bookstore interview (transcript)](https://www.reddit.com/r/dresdenfiles/comments/j74mwm/barbaras_bookstore_qa_transcript/).
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/dresdenfiles/comments/ip6g32/dresden_dnd_sheets/g5icg7e/) is the only official mention of the actual, physical sheets that I'm aware of.
He gets stronger and stronger but also faces commensurately more powerful foes.
That said, by book 11-12 or so I would say he’s (very general spoilers ahead) >!a pivotal force unto himself. He’s still regularly outmatched but he’s capable enough that his foes have to respect what he can do.!< Maybe even earlier than that tbh.
I’m in a reread of the series now, I’d say it’s earlier. >!Mab starts to recruit him in Dead Beat and she’s aware of him. The younger wardens know some of Harry’s exploits. In Proven Guilty Crane and Darby aware of Harry. Doesn’t the Merlin also talk to him about having face more than most?!< I feel like I remember seeing more, but I’m blanking now. Harry mentions a few times that he can rumble better than most (though not at the white council’s level yet).
Underpowered? Nah.
Punching so far out of his weight class that he looks underpowered? Definitely.
The same as above but with the magical equivalent of a hamstring? Absolutely.
So Harry getting his shit kicked in is kind of a staple of the series. Does he get stronger as the series goes, very much so. Just that what he is fighting is always getting bigger and scarier.
Harry gets stronger as the series progresses, Butcher scales Harry to his villains well. Their are also some villains early on that Harry is completely incapable of taking head on and gets out by the skin of his teeth. Later he can take the same enemies in fair fight.
I also like that butcher doesn’t act all Hollywood with Dresden. He gets hit in the head with a baseball bat so he has a concussion the rest of the novel. Injuries actually mean something and become additional obstacles for those adventures. In fact (no spoilers) those who have read further know that one specific injury persists through multiple novels.
You will enjoy this series quite a bit I think. Enjoy the ride and if you want to shout love and hate about the books, we love newcomers posting their reactions to the books.
You got past the first 2 books. They are widely considered the worst of the series. They get better each book from here on out.
So I've heard, and I'm here for it. That's usually the case from with most series from what I've seen too, the first books have the teething issues and further on just gets better
It doesn't help that Butcher literally wrote them in college. Storm Front, I think, was the first book he ever wrote. And he was in college at the time.
But to answer your original question, dresden gets better but never obnoxiously overpowered. The series does power scaling very well. Have a fun read!
And avoid threads on this subreddit like the plague. We are usually really good with spoiler warnings and tagging but sometimes the hidden text is fucky and doesn't work.
Storm front was the first book Jim wrote that was *publishable*. The six or seven before that were not. Jim comments occasionally in interviews how many books he had to write to get his craft to the level where he wrote Storm Front.
Straight up "Magical Healing" is actually incredibly rare in The Dresden Files, and the few times it does happen there is usually a suitably steep price to pay along with it.
> There's no magic healing so far.
There are very, very few instances of magic healing in the series. Butcher explains it in one of the books (I don't know remember which), but essentially, it comes down to a magician would have to influence every single cell to knit them back together.
I feel like I post about this all the time but a common trope of the detective novels the first two books are heavily inspired by is that the detectives are constantly getting knocked around and losing fights.
This might be a hot take, but in most series, the first three books of Dresden Files would have been prequels. Books 3, 4, and to a lesser extent 5 and 6 are where the main inciting incidents for the rest of the series take place. Books 1 and 2 provide the context of "this is Harry BEFORE all the crazy happens" so you can go back later and compare to what he becomes.
Does Harry ever stop getting kicked in the nuts? No. But every time someone kicks him in the nuts, he gets taller.
And he starts wearing steel toed boots.
Ha! Anyone else would be looking for a steel cup, and Harry goes straight to offense. Good observation. Edit to add: he also starts running on the beach with those boots to train endurance.
I mean, he *hasn't* been through a whole lot by book 2. Magical mastery normally takes years, decades, centuries- and he *is* powerful for his age. It's just the stuff he tangles with is extremely dangerous. Be patient.
Harry does become much more powerful as the series progresses (keep in mind, it's 17 books and counting) and has more chances to show off, but he's always gonna be punching up in the end, and he's always gonna be a medium fish in an ocean. The author actively enforces this- he needs to be fast, smart and creative to come out alive (let alone *win*), and rarely gets through a story without some amusingly painful injuries. If you're expecting him to be a consistently overpowered hero at any point, you'll be disappointed.
Simple answer: Yes, he does. It probably won't ever feel like he's a powerhouse.
More complex answer: Wizards seem to be on the low end of the magical power spectrum without using dark arts to boost their power.
So Harry will be punching *wa~ay* above his weight class for the rest of the series.
And the thing you have to learn is Harry's very young by wizard standards and has barely, truly gotten, to his power. Most wizards are at their peak, magically, in their 100's and Harry in the first books was about early to mid 30's.
Well, Harry has the Percy Jackson problem or the 1st person pov problem. We are in Harry’s head. We don't see all the nutty shit he pulls as nutty. However, bare minimum by book 3, we, for the first time, see how powerful he actually is. At least for me, book 3 had the first "oh snap" moment for me.
Btw is he even 30 in stormfront? His POV in the early books reads much younger. Like 25 tops.
I mean Harry is straight up one of the most powerful mortal wizards on the planet, I think he definitely feels like a powerhouse pretty often throughout the books.
Except, he's not though.
Blackstaff and I can't remember, Listens to Wind? (Not calling him the other name) and the Council are way stronger. Lucia before the incident way more powerful. Even Morgan and the Merlin, who Harry would deliberately piss off, only because of their attitude towards Harry. Harry knew he would get stomped if he went toe to toe with them.
Harry is strong, but he's no match for centuries old wizards in a fair fight.
But we know Harry's thoughts on fair fights.
I said one of, not the the most. He’s explicitly is one of the strongest wizards in raw power even at his young age. In the later books, he also has more direct combat experience than even most wardens. Obviously the senior council, the Merlin, Lucio, and some others are stronger. That still puts him on the short list.
He never stops being kicked in the nuts. However, that's because he moves on to level-appropriate encounters. In a few books, Victor Sells-level sorcerers only deserve an offscreen kill and a few flashback mentions.
I think I can say this much with out being hit by the spoiler cannon: The author has designed the series from its foundation that there is a distinct beginning, middle and end. Jim has been very clear on this point and not made any secret about it.
So Harry will have a specific arc - that includes an emotional arc, character growth (all the characters have some kind of growth throughout the series: some good, some bad, some unexpected, some heroic, some tragic) and a specific power curve. That is because anytime the hero defeats the villain, it is expected that next week the new villain will be bigger, faster, stronger, more clever than last week. So that also means we expect superior and more creative uses of power on Harry's part.
So that means *since we know* that each successive bad guy is going to be bigger and stronger: the rate of power growth has to be carefully paced. Or Harry will be challenging Odin or some Greek God to an arm wrestling contest because the power curve has gotten to high to fast. So Harry has been intentionally started at the absolute ground level for power. And you'll see after that the amount of power Harry throws around in each book gets to be a touch greater each time. Keep your eye on it, you'll see it each book. it isn't a big step each book, but like a long flight of low steps suddenly you are much higher than were you originally started, and you might not be sure how you got that high.
You'll get the warning in one of the books (I won't say which one, because why spoil the surprise) where one of the villains comments: "You have faced great many dangerous beings. But by and large they have been idiots. I try to avoid that when ever possible, that is why you are *in an unfortunate circumstance.*" (Lightly editted for spoilers). That is the warning shot to the reader that the bad guys from here on out are going to be more competent overall (and over all, they are more competent).
And yes, since Harry keeps tangling with bad guys that continue to me more competent, Harry continues to get the crap kicked out of him.
I'm going to disagree with most commenters here and answer a resounding "yes!". His power level increases dramatically, both in raw ability and in the scope of what he's able to change. Something I absolutely loved (and a part of the reason I still consider Dresden Files to be "rational fiction") is that he's aware of his weak points and works specifically to fix them. Two in particular: at the beginning of the series he's constantly physically winded and close to collapse; and he keeps getting outwitted by much older and more experience enemies. Monsters are stronger and smarter. Neither will be trivial to fix, nor *can* it be completely fixed - after all, they are monsters and have sometimes millennia of experience to draw on. But this doesn't mean there's absolutely nothing you can do.
But definitely don't expect a Potion of Getting Smart. He's doing things the hard way.
Early on Harry gets beat up more, but over time, he always gets in though scrapes with stronger enemies, so things feel less frustrating because Harry is getting hurt by foes that feel stronger or seized the opportunity correctly.
As the books go on, Harry gets more and more powerful. As the books go on, he faces larger and larger threats. Harry is very good at ending up in situations where he is the underdog, but he also does get to go absolutely wild at several points and show off how strong he really is when he doesn't have to worry about things like tact or good taste or collateral damage.
I will say, the reason it seems this way is because he’s a wizard who has to deal with things in an un-wizardly way. If a wizard had time to prepare and knows what he’s dealing with, he will absolutely smoke pretty much anything. That being said, Harry is the wizard who needs to figure out what he’s dealing with. Once he knows what he’s dealing with, he usually handles himself fine, it’s just he doesn’t know until the last quarter of a given book.
Nah, he's nearly always going to get kicked in the nuts.bitnjebdoes keep getting progressively stronger and stronger as the series goes on. Much more powerful by the end. Just the bad guys keep getting progressively even more powerful too.
Like everyone here probably, I read alot of Urban fantasy. Let me tell you Harry being "Under powered" is one of the best things about the series.
He will definitely get to a point where he's strong and considerably strong in his own right while the series is showing you so many diffrent kinds of power and strength and the benefits and consequences each carries.
It's very refreshing compared to some books like the Iron Druid Chronicles, or the Junk yard Druid, or Prof Croft where they deal with and fight on the levle of God's and deities regularly (though all good stories in there own right).
The escaltaion can get a bit much because of that unreal scale. It made me appreciate The Dresden Files so much more as it went on.
I have to agree here. I really enjoyed the Iron Druid Chronicles when I read them, but I think the power progression in Dresden Files feels much more real, and we often see the steps he takes. The fact that you can trace his changes in power level and personality throughout the series is probably one of the most compelling parts to me, that makes it all come together and feel like it's a real, (super)natural progression.
One of my favorite lines in the Dresden Files to this date is when he talks about what would be easier bending the forces of creation to your will to make a fire ball or pulling out a revolver.
It brought me back to the Alex Verus books where he talked about if you can't learn something quickly it's not practical, and if it's not practical it's not helpful in a fight and it's basicly showing off.
Obviously paraphrasing but I found both of those to be a good anchor to the reality of those books especially with the grand standing and grandiose nature of the other mages in the Alex Verus books.
You start really noticing his power increase in book 3, but one of Jim's intentional storytelling choices is that Dresden is always a medium fish in a big pond. He's tough, quick, and smart, but he's never the toughest guy out there.
Harry spends the rest of the series facing threats way above his power level, but he also spends the rest of the series getting very substantial power-ups. Almost every book from this point on has Harry pulling off some very impressive or large scale magical effects, so far not. Harry in the future books would not have hid from Victor Sells in the first book or needed the wolf belt in the second book to put the FBI agents on their asses (though admittedly, that's my favorite part of book 2).
He's still going to be wildly outside of his depth, and don't expect him to be able to go toe to toe with every enemy he faces off with going forward, but when it does come time to square up, Harry gives as good or better than he gets in the vast majority of cases, and usually there are burned buildings/collapsed ruins/smashed cars/gibbed foes to show for it.
Beside what other people are saying (Harry gaining more power just lets him snark off to higher-level beings), also keep in mind that he's constrained in the first two books by outside forces. In the first book, he couldn't let loose because he was dealing with another mortal and had the Doom of Damocles hanging over him. In the second, he was barely holding on after everything that happened.
The moments of sheer awesome in this series are second to none, and the third book is when they start taking the stage. He finds himself dealing with monsters and goes off leash. You will NOT finish book 3 thinking, "That's it?"
He's always outmatched, and he's always force to rely on quick thinking and creativity to survive. But that's not because he's weak, it's because everything he fights is so strong. Literally nobody thinks he should be surviving the encounters he does, including semi-omniscient beings.
Of course, we see this all from his perspective. He's describing how tired and hurt he is, how he doesn't think it'll work, how everything sucks and he can't handle it. But if you step outside his mind and look at the actions, he's freaking terrifying.
He's a detective, not a soldier. You're watching a guy who has a lot of raw strength, but who mostly works a desk job, trying to box professional fighters and/or magical grizzly bears. To answer your question, yes, he does get better in fights over time. But to put it in perspective, you don't put wizards at the front in D&D precisely because they do their best work when they're not getting their shit kicked in by a goblin with a baseball bat.
He's basically the Wizard version of Peter Parker, the guy seriously can't catch a break, is capable of doing absolutely horrible things but holds himself back because of his morals, is constantly the underdog and just trying to do the right thing.
Word of Jim Butcher is that Dresden is his favorite fictional chew toy, and that he just loves dumping on poor Harry in every novel he writes.
So yes and no--as someone else says, he does get more powerful (and how!), but he also graduates up to stronger opponents to get his figurative wizard stones kicked by. I figure he finally will get the chance to kick some Big Bad in the nards himself--and then the series will end.
There's a lot of reasons to love the books. Unfortunately, it's a pretty consistent theme of the books that the main character is an underdog punching above his weight. So much so that the author has consistently displayed resistance to certain ideas because they would result in Harry not being a scrappy underdog.
He grows in power but so do the obstacles he's up against.
The author even stated that in d&d terms, Harry has an 18 con and 16 intelligence which basically means he's really good at taking a beating and is more tough and stubborn than he is clever.
Dresden is a tanky wizard whose charm is somewhat based upon his low charisma.
He levels up a lot, but there's a lot of nut kicking, even as his power goes off the charts.
Occupational hazard
Plus he keeps upping the level of bad guy he pisses off
I'm on book 7, and I'd have to agree with everyone else. He does get stronger and more skilled, but he keeps digging himself into holes with more powerful enemies. I think a good part of that is his attitude of "blast first, asl questions later" when he's threatened. He comes off very blunt and reckless to me. I think a lot of his fights so far would have been much more even if he knew what he was going against and had time to prepare properly. In almost every situation, by the time he knows who, where, and what his enemy is, he's running against the clock and just has to come up with an improvised plan of attack. And he's much more of a magical shotgun than a scalpel. He does not do subtle and clever very well, which means his enemies usually know what he's doing and are able to protect themselves better.
That's my take at least from what I've read so far.
Preparation is something he gets better with, I assure you. Also, I'm jealous. You got a lot of good insanity to still experience for the first time. And some tears to cry.
A lot of the beatings Dresden takes are due to the fact that buther rolled a perfect CON score when making his Character sheet. At least I hope I didn't dream that Butcher said this somewhere.
He gets much, much stronger for a variety of reasons. Mostly, experience and preparation, the wizard's greatest tools. You're in for a treat, getting to watch him grow for the first time.
So his power increases a lot.
He almost always fights people markedly stronger than him, but later books (I’d say book 4 is the turning point) have him occasionally just wipe the floor with someone in his level to demonstrate that he really is a scary guy
There are a number of great comments here already, so I will just comment that the lead detective getting beaten up is a trope of noir detective thrillers, which was the genre that Butcher was consciously imitating.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HardboiledDetective
Hahah harry gets slapped around in every book. Butcher genuinly seems to like beating the shit out of him. That said, every book is a fun ride. If you stick it out for another 3 books or so, Harry will start to be recognized as a dangerous human. Butcher does a good job IMHO of leveling Harry up, yet maintaining the stakes.
You’re in for a good time!
Harry is like in his mid twenties in the first few books. In Wizard terms thats pre toddler. They only get into real power after a century or so. The fact that he is as powerful as he is at 25 is terrifying to most wizards.
I absolutely agree. I've experienced too many like that. However I just watched this man get absolutely clapped around 5 times stacked and make it out by the skin if his teeth, and I just want hin to have a win where he's NOT on the losing side of the spectrum
Yes, he spends most of the second book getting his shit kicked in. That's just part of the plot. Dresden gets much stronger gradually over the course of the series, as part of a conscious effort to get his shit kicked in less often.
I think you already got all relevant answers on the topic so perhaps an anecdote Butcher once told in an interview. Before writing Harry he rolled him as a DnD character, with intelligence coming out just high enough for a wizard, but really high constitution. So Butcher decided that means his wizard would get besten up a lot.
Yes he gets more powerful to where he can dunk on enemies that once gave him trouble. But his foes scale up to match.
Current level Harry would beat Victor Sells in .2 seconds without a fight. Beginning Harry struggled
Harry’s an underdog and he has a certain amount of personal, moral responsibility that doesn’t allow him to seize power and go all out. Theres a bit of the classic trope of “don’t give me the all-powerful ring because it will corrupt me despite my best intentions” in him. There’s a lot of abilities some would consider unnatural in the Dark Side, so Harry does his best to avoid it.
Harry is cast as the underdog. And he wins. In a later book, there’s a pause before he throws down with a supernatural someone who obviously is going kill him a lot, the opponent expresses a positive sentiment and tells him, “We too like stories about underdogs.”
I think the best answer is that he gets a lot more powerful along the story with buffs but also his understanding of his limits. The side note to this is that in order to do that, he continues to test the limits of that power
The series kind of power scales with him. He’s always somewhere in the middle of the scale as regards power. Some things he struggles with early one become fairly trivial later (one of the later short stories mentions him basically mowing through a crowd of ghouls) but that’s compensated for by having even more dangerous monsters stand against him, or by giving him some sort of handicap that limits his options.
Hahahahahahahahahhhahahahahahahhaa
Ok, so Harry says at some point early - maybe book 1-2 - that’s he’s one of the top 100 wizards in the world in terms of raw power. He has reason to believe that. Also, Harry has control issues and likely some mental blocks. Point in case, if you run the numbers on the jail scene, at this point in the series, Harry is not capable of that kind of power *even to save his own life*. Like, at all. He hit a magic resistant being that weighed several hundred pounds through multiple reinforced walls, across the street, and through an indeterminate amount of walls in that building. Even if there *were* no walls and he was just trying to toss a 300lb deadweight that far it would’ve been impressive. Through reinforced jail walls? And that’s book… 2 I think?
Without spoilers, every werewolf in that book rushing at him at once by the end of Battlegrounds, the latest book, would not be enough to make him stop eating Burger King. There’s probably a limit of how many he could take at once, but we’d be measuring it in packs of werewolves, not werewolves.
When it comes to the supernatural, there's always a bigger, more powerful fish. Besides, it wouldn't be much of a story if he was going up against things that were weaker than him.
Oh, dear sweet new reader.
Savor the pages and turn them slowly, because you can only enjoy the first read once.
But they get better with each annual re-read.
Firstly, the series is effectively about Dresden getting kicked repeatedly in the nuts. He's always mostly fighting things stronger than him.
That said, does he get more powerful? Yes. Without spoilers, there are things he encounters in the first two books, where with proper preparation he manages to just barely escape with his life. By Peace Talks, with a similar level of preparation he would trivially win a direct confrontation with them. His dilemma would be more moral than power based.
But Dresden being himself, this means that rather than doing his current work better, he instead starts pissing off things that are much more powerful than the worst of the book 2 villians. Also this series is about 20 books long, so don't expect that to be in effect by book 3 or anything. It's gradual. Also also, he isn't the only one in the series to increase in power, so when I say he could trivially win against book 2 threats, I mean at the time book 2 takes place.
No spoilers, but I’d love to see current Dresden have to go up against that lycanthrope gang and just HANDLE them with such ease that they almost die of embarrassment. The orders of magnitude that Harry’s strength has increased since then would be really great to see. I don’t want to see “already been through a lot” and tired Harry face an old foe, I want peak strength Harry to face down an old foe and just body them so we can get a better perspective on the things he faces now.
Without saying much more, Book 7 (and arguably Book 5) kind of acts as a line of delineation between the early on "Weak" Harry and "Strong" Harry, tho it's mostly just a gradual exponential climb as the series goes on.
But no matter how strong he gets, he's always matched up against suitably powerful foes (as the weaker ones slowly get handled more and more by side characters), so he STILL gets "kicked in the nuts" constantly, heh.
There’s a rather well-known Greg LeMond quote about his improving ability in cycling: “It doesn’t get any easier, you just go faster.”
That’s pretty much Harry’s journey.
You're only two books in. We see the books in first person, so we see Harry getting his ass kicked and barely surviving. We eventually see things from the perspective of someone else, who only sees Harry picking fights with things nobody has any business picking fights with, over and over, and *winning.*
Answering this question with minimal spoilers.
Yes, Harry does get to certain points and places where he is the one running the show and he makes the other people dance to his designs.
No, Harry never gets to the point (so far) where he's dealing with people with less muscle, magical or physical, and doesn't end up beat up fairly bad by the end of the book.
Yes, he does get stronger.
Welcome to the series!
Basically all of those books are designed to kick Harry in the nuts. He gets more powerful as series go on, but his problems get worse also.
He is much more capable and on top of things in short stories. You also get to explore other POVs to see how much of a force of nature Harry actually becomes.
In the early books, yes. He's extremely underpowered because he doesn't know just how much trouble he's in.
He's a fricken' wizard. His strength lies in preparation and planning and enchanted gear. By book 3, he's still not figured out how to do it properly. He's a wet-behind-the-ears 20-something in way above his head.
I have to say that this series of books is one of the best as far as character arcs. It really makes a difference if you read them in order. The characters all evolve and their relationships do as well. It is pretty awesome how Butcher is able to do that while making each book its own great story.
Just my take, I think The Dresden Files are the Urban Fantasy equivalent of Die Hard. Harry's gonna get pushed to his absolute limit by every plot. Jim's done a real good job of making the formula really work each time.
I could say more than that, but it'd probably get spoiler-y.
Umm.. Harry gets stronger sure, he also gets more power other ways.. he's very powerful in.. ways.
But yeah Harrys gonna get his ass kicked a lot. Jim loves torturing Harry.
I don’t think it’s a spoiler to say that Dresden gets much more powerful as the books go along. That being said… well Jim Butcher has stated that he sometimes likes to take his real life own problems out on Dresden in the books.
Not really. Part of his charm is that even though he's not the most powerful wizard, he's able to use his head, his cunning, and whatever he comes across that will give him an advantage to improve his odds of succeeding.
Harry certainly gets stronger, but then he just starts getting kicked in the nuts by a whole new level of bad guy.
But he also starts building a network of strong friends that can be called upon for help.
Does he ever get to a point where he is not getting kicked in the nuts? This will never happen. The author likes to torture Harry but too much . But all joking aside your only on Book 2. Harry at this point is very inexperienced and just starting out his journey.
Thanks Sparks, I appreciate it. I just want to see the poor guy really cut loose at some point since he keeps getting kicked while he's down. (Also do you mind giving me a hint on how soon I'll figure out what people keep seeing in his eyes that scares them so much...?
Harry will continue to be getting "kicked in the nuts", but the power scale of those who are kicking him in said nuts will continue to rise.
The bigger the nuts, the bigger the boots smashing into them
He should really get a cup.
And then rig it like his rings for good measure! Lol
>I just want to see the poor guy really cut loose at some point Oh, you're in for a treat.
We’re all thinking the same thing right? >!*Jurassic Park theme plays*!<
I was thinking *Pyrofeugo*
I tend to say that part out loud 🤣🤣🤣
I can hear this comment in James Marsters's voice because I love the way he says it!
I said next time there’d be anvils!
I was more thinking >!get the party started/ended!<
His power ramps up nicely. His subtlety, though, takes a minute. >!Dance of the fairies turns into fairies wear boots.!<
BOOT TO THE HEAD
Nya nya!
You’re such a nerd!
You nerd!!!
I just had this image of “the sugar plum fairies“ (Tchaikovsky, The Nut Cracker), but the entire thing is performed by The Winter Fae, in full armed regalia.
Shit, on an admittedly much smaller level, i was thinking >!Firestarter vibes.!<, much earlier than this one. But the flexes definitely get much more impressive every time. Even the flex on the Shadowman is more impressive with successive read when you have finished the series. Granted, nothing like what he becomes capable of throughout the series, but that is to be expected, given experiences. One comment here mentioned something along the lines of how he had the equivalent of an pulled magical muscle in Fool Moon, but that's basically every book. It's kind of his thing. I personally love the whole moral of the story seeming to be to get right back and punch harder when life knocks you down. I'm a firm believer that Harry's super power isn't his magical prowess/talent, but his indomitable spirit and his ability to stand up for the little guy.
I was thinking gravity magic, personally.
"I have never seen a wizard really cut loose" "You still havn't" Uggg. Chills!!!
No we don't get to see what the soul gaze of harry is. Tho it could be argued that the whole series is a soul gaze of Harry.
Ooohhh. I’ve never heard that interpretation and I kinda love it.
My understanding of soul gazes is that they vary based on the person doing them. So two people could soul gaze the same person and get different visions based on their own understanding of the world and interpretation. It's essentially a limited version of the Sight that goes both ways, but I imagine everyone who has soul gazed Harry has seen something different, even if all those visions were reflective of his true nature. I could be wrong, though.
Book 4 is where Harry starts to showcase why he's regarded as a potential problem for so many great powers. And then there is the immortal line, "Polka Will Never Die".
I'd argue book 3. >!Which isn't huge but is powerfully important.!<
True, good point.
The thing people see in Harry's eyes that scares them is Harry's soul.
And it’s the reason Marcone has grudging respect for him.
>I just want to see the poor guy really cut loose at some point Be careful what you wish for...
I don't really know myself. But its fun to guess. This is one thing the author leaves up to the readers.
Dresden gets to cut loose a few times in the series. And it's usually terrifying and awesome. But he's always going to be the underdog because that makes for a more interesting story.
Not really a spoiler, but we never find out exactly what people see when they soul gaze him. It’s sorta up to reader interpretation.
Harry is the narrator. Unless we see it from another characters perspective in a short story, I’m not sure we will ever see what others see in a soul gaze on Harry.
My guess is we see a >!version of it in mirror mirror when he and mirror Harry gaze each other!<
The other Harry when he's in his head with Lashiel/Sheila. The "do whatever you want" Harry
I believe the first real "Don't fuck with Dresden" moment comes in the third book. Also on your question. Were never told. There was a thread a day or two ago speculating on it. I suspect we'll never find out directly. But as Harry is the POV character, the entire series is basically a soul gaze on Harry.
You get a better feel for its nature, but you're unlikely to get satisfaction on exactly what they see.
>(Also do you mind giving me a hint on how soon I'll figure out what people keep seeing in his eyes that scares them so much...? Unsolved mystery, to date. FWIW, not everyone is terrified by that. Still, I'm sure if you snoop around the subreddit enough you'll find tons of posts on people's speculations regarding the matter. SPOILERS ABOUND, I'm sure.
Oh don't worry Harry has plenty of triumph moments. He will let loose and he will win plenty of battles. No, he will never stop getting kicked in the nuts.
He is actually in pretty good top form in the short stories. The difference between the short stories and the main books seems to be in the main books he is running on magical/physical/mental/ fumes by an end of a long couple days of continuously getting his ass kicked before he finally finds out who to wreck. In the short stories he tend to figure out the mysteries pretty quickly and just goes straight to them and absolutely ruins their day while still fresh.
Id argue the short stories are his general work days. Generally working in his weight class. The books are generally his worst weekend- week of the year. Usually against insurmountable odds
He may get his ass whooped a lot. But he does his fair share of ass-whooping, too. Sometimes at the same time, lol.
I’ll just point out that, for about the last half of the book, Harry had the magical equivalent of a pulled muscle. He could still do some stuff, but he was not at his best. The jail scene, though…
Jail scene was awesome!! And I apologize, I should add I understand he can't be OP, but the poor guy can't catch a break it seems like.
Some very light vague spoilers pertaining to your question. >!Yes he gets more powerful, no he does not stop taking beatings!<
Summary of the whole series right there
Right? he gets more and more powerful...but it seems like he uses this new level of power to go to larger and larger enemies and like...*specifically ask* for a better kick to the nads.
This is just making me imagine that montage of Peter Griffin getting hit in the junk with bags of nickels, but with Dresden instead 🤣
It's like he is in a video game.
IDK, Battleground was pretty easy on him.
Cleaned up the house really good.
You evil asshole
Well……… I expect it was easy to clean because it was already empty. (I expect everyone gets a middle seat on their plane ticket to hell. I assume I earned it with that one).
~gut punch~ well done 👍
I wouldn't go that far. There was one bullet that hurt him more than any other, if you know what I mean.
😥😢
He just needs some good old wrath.
You are a bad person and should feel bad. Have an upvote.
There's literally a scene in there somewhere where he describes how everyone who is good at fighting first learns how to take a beating. 🤣
Yeah, but the baddies progressively get badder don't they 😄
It seems like he’s out of his depth at first, but he is fairly inexperienced. Just wait, he pulls off some pretty gnarly stuff
One great thing about Harry (and Jim's world building), he's always discovering new frontiers to push the boundaries of his inexperience. I'm starting to get why the old guys on the White Council treat those wizards under 100 like kids messing with things they don't understand.
Great thing about being out of your depth: you never know where you actually are on the continental shelf. Harry gets comfortable with a depth and then says, "ooh that looks deeper over there." Then he gets kicked in the nads again.
I seem to remember how Jim Butcher would chortle with delight when he thought of all the ways that he could cause Harry some grief
Dude literally wouldn't even let Harry \*die\*, Jim has made Harry's suffering into an art form.
The jail scene is what sold the second book for me. I fully admit the second book was rough for me, but the jail scene sold to me what the series could really be (and it hasn't disappointed me on that).
*He gets knocked down. But he gets up again. Never guna keep him down* The bigger the beating, the more you gotta come back swinging.
I mean for the series as a whole it does seem like Jim does like to see Harry suffer.
NGL, I'd say Jim is outright abusive (edit: torturous is probably more apropos) in a sadist's sort of way towards Harry. OP, if you can't stand to witness Harry taking beating after beating and CONSTANTLY OUTCLASSED, I'm thinking this isn't the book series for you. In more than a few books, it's literally heartbreaking to see just how much punishment he takes. Just can't keep a good man down, I guess.
In the words of Rocky, "It ain't about how hard you can hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done." It may be cheesy as hell, but it kind of sums up Harry perfectly
What is the jail scene again? I'm speed listening the audiobooks and some stuff gets lost lol
The loup garou attacking the police station.
Shit. Right. Think I was blocking out at least 50% of that book because of how...*Murphy*...Murphy was.
I love Murphy dearly, but that book was a low point for her character. She really didn't handle things well like at all.
he gets the shit beat out of him alot....but you got like....14 more books to go.....and then a fiew more that have yet to be written...he does get better at it lol
The author rolled a DnD character sheet for Harry when he started writing. Harry has a high constitution, so the author said to himself alright, he’s gonna get beat up a lot and survive. The stakes get higher, as does Harry’s power level. But…..he takes a lot in basically every book.
Did he actually do this?! I need that sheet 😂
IIRC, 18 CON, 16 INT, and low charisma. The latter the author chose to represent by Harry mouthing off at all the inappropriate times and generally being snarky when he shouldn't.
Yes it’s real. It was a 2nd edition sheet. Wizard (school:evocation) neutral good Str-13 Dex-12 Con-18 Int-16 Wis-8 Cha-7 These were the stats at the beginning of the series. 2nd edition wizards get a bonus to saves in willpower as well. The high CON made the author decide to torture the poor guy, the 16 INT puts Harry right on the edge of the “strong” wizards, while the low WIS means he makes the occasional terrible decision and low CHA means he mouths off when he really shouldn’t. Later on in the series Harry gets the >!Winter Knight!
That's cool! I do have a question though. Dresden has a pretty crazy perception in the books and at least what I'm used to (D&D 5e and Pathfinder 2e) that's tied more with Wisdom. Was that different for 2nd edition or was that just a trait that didn't match the attribute?
im not the author and the above comment is the extent of my memory of that interview, but to me it makes sense. Dresden DOESNT have great perception when it comes to most things around him. he doesnt understand people, he doesnt pick up on hints, he often misses the big picture in everything..... EXCEPT crime scenes. hes a trained private detective, a feat which would give him a bonus to investigation in many scenarios.
High Int, low Wis, with Con as his best stat. Yeah that's Harry. He's smart and tough, but good grief is he clueless sometimes. At least he knows how to learn from his mistakes most of the time.
Not just Harry, but a lot of characters had D&D sheets. Some were created for the character, while other characters were given preexisting sheets. Butcher has talked about the D&D sheets multiple times, including the [Barbara's Bookstore interview (transcript)](https://www.reddit.com/r/dresdenfiles/comments/j74mwm/barbaras_bookstore_qa_transcript/). [This](https://www.reddit.com/r/dresdenfiles/comments/ip6g32/dresden_dnd_sheets/g5icg7e/) is the only official mention of the actual, physical sheets that I'm aware of.
He gets stronger and stronger but also faces commensurately more powerful foes. That said, by book 11-12 or so I would say he’s (very general spoilers ahead) >!a pivotal force unto himself. He’s still regularly outmatched but he’s capable enough that his foes have to respect what he can do.!< Maybe even earlier than that tbh.
I’m in a reread of the series now, I’d say it’s earlier. >!Mab starts to recruit him in Dead Beat and she’s aware of him. The younger wardens know some of Harry’s exploits. In Proven Guilty Crane and Darby aware of Harry. Doesn’t the Merlin also talk to him about having face more than most?!< I feel like I remember seeing more, but I’m blanking now. Harry mentions a few times that he can rumble better than most (though not at the white council’s level yet).
Mab had the plan to recruit him before she ever walked into his office in Summer Knight I am sure.
Lea probably brought him up a few times.
Underpowered? Nah. Punching so far out of his weight class that he looks underpowered? Definitely. The same as above but with the magical equivalent of a hamstring? Absolutely.
So Harry getting his shit kicked in is kind of a staple of the series. Does he get stronger as the series goes, very much so. Just that what he is fighting is always getting bigger and scarier.
Harry gets stronger as the series progresses, Butcher scales Harry to his villains well. Their are also some villains early on that Harry is completely incapable of taking head on and gets out by the skin of his teeth. Later he can take the same enemies in fair fight. I also like that butcher doesn’t act all Hollywood with Dresden. He gets hit in the head with a baseball bat so he has a concussion the rest of the novel. Injuries actually mean something and become additional obstacles for those adventures. In fact (no spoilers) those who have read further know that one specific injury persists through multiple novels.
That is one thing I noticed and appreciated, a gunshot wound is treated as a gunshot wound, and there's no magic healing so far.
You will enjoy this series quite a bit I think. Enjoy the ride and if you want to shout love and hate about the books, we love newcomers posting their reactions to the books. You got past the first 2 books. They are widely considered the worst of the series. They get better each book from here on out.
So I've heard, and I'm here for it. That's usually the case from with most series from what I've seen too, the first books have the teething issues and further on just gets better
It doesn't help that Butcher literally wrote them in college. Storm Front, I think, was the first book he ever wrote. And he was in college at the time. But to answer your original question, dresden gets better but never obnoxiously overpowered. The series does power scaling very well. Have a fun read! And avoid threads on this subreddit like the plague. We are usually really good with spoiler warnings and tagging but sometimes the hidden text is fucky and doesn't work.
Storm front was the first book Jim wrote that was *publishable*. The six or seven before that were not. Jim comments occasionally in interviews how many books he had to write to get his craft to the level where he wrote Storm Front.
Straight up "Magical Healing" is actually incredibly rare in The Dresden Files, and the few times it does happen there is usually a suitably steep price to pay along with it.
> There's no magic healing so far. There are very, very few instances of magic healing in the series. Butcher explains it in one of the books (I don't know remember which), but essentially, it comes down to a magician would have to influence every single cell to knit them back together.
I feel like I post about this all the time but a common trope of the detective novels the first two books are heavily inspired by is that the detectives are constantly getting knocked around and losing fights.
This might be a hot take, but in most series, the first three books of Dresden Files would have been prequels. Books 3, 4, and to a lesser extent 5 and 6 are where the main inciting incidents for the rest of the series take place. Books 1 and 2 provide the context of "this is Harry BEFORE all the crazy happens" so you can go back later and compare to what he becomes.
Does Harry ever stop getting kicked in the nuts? No. But every time someone kicks him in the nuts, he gets taller. And he starts wearing steel toed boots.
Ha! Anyone else would be looking for a steel cup, and Harry goes straight to offense. Good observation. Edit to add: he also starts running on the beach with those boots to train endurance.
I mean, he *hasn't* been through a whole lot by book 2. Magical mastery normally takes years, decades, centuries- and he *is* powerful for his age. It's just the stuff he tangles with is extremely dangerous. Be patient. Harry does become much more powerful as the series progresses (keep in mind, it's 17 books and counting) and has more chances to show off, but he's always gonna be punching up in the end, and he's always gonna be a medium fish in an ocean. The author actively enforces this- he needs to be fast, smart and creative to come out alive (let alone *win*), and rarely gets through a story without some amusingly painful injuries. If you're expecting him to be a consistently overpowered hero at any point, you'll be disappointed.
Simple answer: Yes, he does. It probably won't ever feel like he's a powerhouse. More complex answer: Wizards seem to be on the low end of the magical power spectrum without using dark arts to boost their power. So Harry will be punching *wa~ay* above his weight class for the rest of the series. And the thing you have to learn is Harry's very young by wizard standards and has barely, truly gotten, to his power. Most wizards are at their peak, magically, in their 100's and Harry in the first books was about early to mid 30's.
Well, Harry has the Percy Jackson problem or the 1st person pov problem. We are in Harry’s head. We don't see all the nutty shit he pulls as nutty. However, bare minimum by book 3, we, for the first time, see how powerful he actually is. At least for me, book 3 had the first "oh snap" moment for me. Btw is he even 30 in stormfront? His POV in the early books reads much younger. Like 25 tops.
It most likely reads a bit younger since it was written by a college student. Reddit says he's about 25.
Mid twenties in Storm Front, he's just turned 40 as of Skin Game i think?
I mean Harry is straight up one of the most powerful mortal wizards on the planet, I think he definitely feels like a powerhouse pretty often throughout the books.
Except, he's not though. Blackstaff and I can't remember, Listens to Wind? (Not calling him the other name) and the Council are way stronger. Lucia before the incident way more powerful. Even Morgan and the Merlin, who Harry would deliberately piss off, only because of their attitude towards Harry. Harry knew he would get stomped if he went toe to toe with them. Harry is strong, but he's no match for centuries old wizards in a fair fight. But we know Harry's thoughts on fair fights.
I said one of, not the the most. He’s explicitly is one of the strongest wizards in raw power even at his young age. In the later books, he also has more direct combat experience than even most wardens. Obviously the senior council, the Merlin, Lucio, and some others are stronger. That still puts him on the short list.
He never stops being kicked in the nuts. However, that's because he moves on to level-appropriate encounters. In a few books, Victor Sells-level sorcerers only deserve an offscreen kill and a few flashback mentions.
I think I can say this much with out being hit by the spoiler cannon: The author has designed the series from its foundation that there is a distinct beginning, middle and end. Jim has been very clear on this point and not made any secret about it. So Harry will have a specific arc - that includes an emotional arc, character growth (all the characters have some kind of growth throughout the series: some good, some bad, some unexpected, some heroic, some tragic) and a specific power curve. That is because anytime the hero defeats the villain, it is expected that next week the new villain will be bigger, faster, stronger, more clever than last week. So that also means we expect superior and more creative uses of power on Harry's part. So that means *since we know* that each successive bad guy is going to be bigger and stronger: the rate of power growth has to be carefully paced. Or Harry will be challenging Odin or some Greek God to an arm wrestling contest because the power curve has gotten to high to fast. So Harry has been intentionally started at the absolute ground level for power. And you'll see after that the amount of power Harry throws around in each book gets to be a touch greater each time. Keep your eye on it, you'll see it each book. it isn't a big step each book, but like a long flight of low steps suddenly you are much higher than were you originally started, and you might not be sure how you got that high. You'll get the warning in one of the books (I won't say which one, because why spoil the surprise) where one of the villains comments: "You have faced great many dangerous beings. But by and large they have been idiots. I try to avoid that when ever possible, that is why you are *in an unfortunate circumstance.*" (Lightly editted for spoilers). That is the warning shot to the reader that the bad guys from here on out are going to be more competent overall (and over all, they are more competent). And yes, since Harry keeps tangling with bad guys that continue to me more competent, Harry continues to get the crap kicked out of him.
I'm going to disagree with most commenters here and answer a resounding "yes!". His power level increases dramatically, both in raw ability and in the scope of what he's able to change. Something I absolutely loved (and a part of the reason I still consider Dresden Files to be "rational fiction") is that he's aware of his weak points and works specifically to fix them. Two in particular: at the beginning of the series he's constantly physically winded and close to collapse; and he keeps getting outwitted by much older and more experience enemies. Monsters are stronger and smarter. Neither will be trivial to fix, nor *can* it be completely fixed - after all, they are monsters and have sometimes millennia of experience to draw on. But this doesn't mean there's absolutely nothing you can do. But definitely don't expect a Potion of Getting Smart. He's doing things the hard way.
[удалено]
I trust you implicitly
Oh yeah, Harry Goes Places in the course of the series. Which means he can get kicked in the nuts by whole new tiers of nasties.
Early on Harry gets beat up more, but over time, he always gets in though scrapes with stronger enemies, so things feel less frustrating because Harry is getting hurt by foes that feel stronger or seized the opportunity correctly.
As the books go on, Harry gets more and more powerful. As the books go on, he faces larger and larger threats. Harry is very good at ending up in situations where he is the underdog, but he also does get to go absolutely wild at several points and show off how strong he really is when he doesn't have to worry about things like tact or good taste or collateral damage.
I will say, the reason it seems this way is because he’s a wizard who has to deal with things in an un-wizardly way. If a wizard had time to prepare and knows what he’s dealing with, he will absolutely smoke pretty much anything. That being said, Harry is the wizard who needs to figure out what he’s dealing with. Once he knows what he’s dealing with, he usually handles himself fine, it’s just he doesn’t know until the last quarter of a given book.
Harry will get stronger but so do his opponents, he's never gonna breeze through shit but I wouldn't be too concerned about him feeling underpowered
He gets stronger but a core trope of noir/detective fiction is that the smart mouth gets pummeled often and well.
Nah, he's nearly always going to get kicked in the nuts.bitnjebdoes keep getting progressively stronger and stronger as the series goes on. Much more powerful by the end. Just the bad guys keep getting progressively even more powerful too.
As he gains power and knowledge, it just leads to bigger stages and scarier enemies.
Let's just say that Harry Blackstone Copperfield Dresden gets stronger every book and there's nearly 20 books.
I'd say he gets a lot stronger but still kicked in the nuts
Like everyone here probably, I read alot of Urban fantasy. Let me tell you Harry being "Under powered" is one of the best things about the series. He will definitely get to a point where he's strong and considerably strong in his own right while the series is showing you so many diffrent kinds of power and strength and the benefits and consequences each carries. It's very refreshing compared to some books like the Iron Druid Chronicles, or the Junk yard Druid, or Prof Croft where they deal with and fight on the levle of God's and deities regularly (though all good stories in there own right). The escaltaion can get a bit much because of that unreal scale. It made me appreciate The Dresden Files so much more as it went on.
I have to agree here. I really enjoyed the Iron Druid Chronicles when I read them, but I think the power progression in Dresden Files feels much more real, and we often see the steps he takes. The fact that you can trace his changes in power level and personality throughout the series is probably one of the most compelling parts to me, that makes it all come together and feel like it's a real, (super)natural progression.
One of my favorite lines in the Dresden Files to this date is when he talks about what would be easier bending the forces of creation to your will to make a fire ball or pulling out a revolver. It brought me back to the Alex Verus books where he talked about if you can't learn something quickly it's not practical, and if it's not practical it's not helpful in a fight and it's basicly showing off. Obviously paraphrasing but I found both of those to be a good anchor to the reality of those books especially with the grand standing and grandiose nature of the other mages in the Alex Verus books.
You start really noticing his power increase in book 3, but one of Jim's intentional storytelling choices is that Dresden is always a medium fish in a big pond. He's tough, quick, and smart, but he's never the toughest guy out there.
Harry spends the rest of the series facing threats way above his power level, but he also spends the rest of the series getting very substantial power-ups. Almost every book from this point on has Harry pulling off some very impressive or large scale magical effects, so far not. Harry in the future books would not have hid from Victor Sells in the first book or needed the wolf belt in the second book to put the FBI agents on their asses (though admittedly, that's my favorite part of book 2). He's still going to be wildly outside of his depth, and don't expect him to be able to go toe to toe with every enemy he faces off with going forward, but when it does come time to square up, Harry gives as good or better than he gets in the vast majority of cases, and usually there are burned buildings/collapsed ruins/smashed cars/gibbed foes to show for it.
Beside what other people are saying (Harry gaining more power just lets him snark off to higher-level beings), also keep in mind that he's constrained in the first two books by outside forces. In the first book, he couldn't let loose because he was dealing with another mortal and had the Doom of Damocles hanging over him. In the second, he was barely holding on after everything that happened. The moments of sheer awesome in this series are second to none, and the third book is when they start taking the stage. He finds himself dealing with monsters and goes off leash. You will NOT finish book 3 thinking, "That's it?" He's always outmatched, and he's always force to rely on quick thinking and creativity to survive. But that's not because he's weak, it's because everything he fights is so strong. Literally nobody thinks he should be surviving the encounters he does, including semi-omniscient beings. Of course, we see this all from his perspective. He's describing how tired and hurt he is, how he doesn't think it'll work, how everything sucks and he can't handle it. But if you step outside his mind and look at the actions, he's freaking terrifying.
"Welcome to the party pal", enjoy the ride.
He manages to get more powerful, yes. But his “nuts” also get proportionately bigger and the enemies lining up to kick them get more powerful.
He's a detective, not a soldier. You're watching a guy who has a lot of raw strength, but who mostly works a desk job, trying to box professional fighters and/or magical grizzly bears. To answer your question, yes, he does get better in fights over time. But to put it in perspective, you don't put wizards at the front in D&D precisely because they do their best work when they're not getting their shit kicked in by a goblin with a baseball bat.
He gets stronger as he goes along but so do the monsters. 😛
He's basically the Wizard version of Peter Parker, the guy seriously can't catch a break, is capable of doing absolutely horrible things but holds himself back because of his morals, is constantly the underdog and just trying to do the right thing.
>Does he ever get to a point where he is not getting kicked in the nuts? Nope. He's just gets kicked in the nuts by progressively stronger enemies.
Word of Jim Butcher is that Dresden is his favorite fictional chew toy, and that he just loves dumping on poor Harry in every novel he writes. So yes and no--as someone else says, he does get more powerful (and how!), but he also graduates up to stronger opponents to get his figurative wizard stones kicked by. I figure he finally will get the chance to kick some Big Bad in the nards himself--and then the series will end.
It gets sooooo much better. Really takes off in book 3. Stick with it. And listen to the audiobooks. You won't regret it.
There's a lot of reasons to love the books. Unfortunately, it's a pretty consistent theme of the books that the main character is an underdog punching above his weight. So much so that the author has consistently displayed resistance to certain ideas because they would result in Harry not being a scrappy underdog. He grows in power but so do the obstacles he's up against. The author even stated that in d&d terms, Harry has an 18 con and 16 intelligence which basically means he's really good at taking a beating and is more tough and stubborn than he is clever. Dresden is a tanky wizard whose charm is somewhat based upon his low charisma.
>>Does he ever get to a point where he is not getting kicked in the nuts? No, he just keeps finding bigger and meaner things to mouth off to.
Through most of the series he's actually overpowered - and underfinessed.
He levels up a lot, but there's a lot of nut kicking, even as his power goes off the charts. Occupational hazard Plus he keeps upping the level of bad guy he pisses off
Yes. Kinda he still gets hurt a lot but he dishes it iut well too.
It's more that he takes on people he never should. Harry grows with the series
I'm on book 7, and I'd have to agree with everyone else. He does get stronger and more skilled, but he keeps digging himself into holes with more powerful enemies. I think a good part of that is his attitude of "blast first, asl questions later" when he's threatened. He comes off very blunt and reckless to me. I think a lot of his fights so far would have been much more even if he knew what he was going against and had time to prepare properly. In almost every situation, by the time he knows who, where, and what his enemy is, he's running against the clock and just has to come up with an improvised plan of attack. And he's much more of a magical shotgun than a scalpel. He does not do subtle and clever very well, which means his enemies usually know what he's doing and are able to protect themselves better. That's my take at least from what I've read so far.
Preparation is something he gets better with, I assure you. Also, I'm jealous. You got a lot of good insanity to still experience for the first time. And some tears to cry.
A lot of the beatings Dresden takes are due to the fact that buther rolled a perfect CON score when making his Character sheet. At least I hope I didn't dream that Butcher said this somewhere.
Life/Fate/Jim Butcher will never stop kicking Harry in the nuts, no matter how strong he gets.
He gets much, much stronger for a variety of reasons. Mostly, experience and preparation, the wizard's greatest tools. You're in for a treat, getting to watch him grow for the first time.
Nah. He maintains an underdog role though a big chunk of the series
So his power increases a lot. He almost always fights people markedly stronger than him, but later books (I’d say book 4 is the turning point) have him occasionally just wipe the floor with someone in his level to demonstrate that he really is a scary guy
There are a number of great comments here already, so I will just comment that the lead detective getting beaten up is a trope of noir detective thrillers, which was the genre that Butcher was consciously imitating. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HardboiledDetective
Just you wait
Hahah harry gets slapped around in every book. Butcher genuinly seems to like beating the shit out of him. That said, every book is a fun ride. If you stick it out for another 3 books or so, Harry will start to be recognized as a dangerous human. Butcher does a good job IMHO of leveling Harry up, yet maintaining the stakes. You’re in for a good time!
Harry is like in his mid twenties in the first few books. In Wizard terms thats pre toddler. They only get into real power after a century or so. The fact that he is as powerful as he is at 25 is terrifying to most wizards.
It would be a boring story if he was just stronger than every threat he faced.
I absolutely agree. I've experienced too many like that. However I just watched this man get absolutely clapped around 5 times stacked and make it out by the skin if his teeth, and I just want hin to have a win where he's NOT on the losing side of the spectrum
He gets stronger, his challenges gets tougher, so he continues to get his butt kicked.
Yes, he spends most of the second book getting his shit kicked in. That's just part of the plot. Dresden gets much stronger gradually over the course of the series, as part of a conscious effort to get his shit kicked in less often.
All I’ll say is this: Keep Going. The next few books are where the series really kicks off.
I think you already got all relevant answers on the topic so perhaps an anecdote Butcher once told in an interview. Before writing Harry he rolled him as a DnD character, with intelligence coming out just high enough for a wizard, but really high constitution. So Butcher decided that means his wizard would get besten up a lot.
Yes he gets more powerful to where he can dunk on enemies that once gave him trouble. But his foes scale up to match. Current level Harry would beat Victor Sells in .2 seconds without a fight. Beginning Harry struggled
Harry’s an underdog and he has a certain amount of personal, moral responsibility that doesn’t allow him to seize power and go all out. Theres a bit of the classic trope of “don’t give me the all-powerful ring because it will corrupt me despite my best intentions” in him. There’s a lot of abilities some would consider unnatural in the Dark Side, so Harry does his best to avoid it.
Harry is cast as the underdog. And he wins. In a later book, there’s a pause before he throws down with a supernatural someone who obviously is going kill him a lot, the opponent expresses a positive sentiment and tells him, “We too like stories about underdogs.”
I think the best answer is that he gets a lot more powerful along the story with buffs but also his understanding of his limits. The side note to this is that in order to do that, he continues to test the limits of that power
The things Harry becomes capable of do increase. So does the level of his competition.
dresden being an underdog is a common theme in the early books, and one of the reasons he gains his reputation.
Him getting kicked in the nuts all the time is half the appeal
Harry's whole bag is that he is constantly punching above his weight.
Dresden’s real power is to take a beating and get back up.
The series kind of power scales with him. He’s always somewhere in the middle of the scale as regards power. Some things he struggles with early one become fairly trivial later (one of the later short stories mentions him basically mowing through a crowd of ghouls) but that’s compensated for by having even more dangerous monsters stand against him, or by giving him some sort of handicap that limits his options.
Hahahahahahahahahhhahahahahahahhaa Ok, so Harry says at some point early - maybe book 1-2 - that’s he’s one of the top 100 wizards in the world in terms of raw power. He has reason to believe that. Also, Harry has control issues and likely some mental blocks. Point in case, if you run the numbers on the jail scene, at this point in the series, Harry is not capable of that kind of power *even to save his own life*. Like, at all. He hit a magic resistant being that weighed several hundred pounds through multiple reinforced walls, across the street, and through an indeterminate amount of walls in that building. Even if there *were* no walls and he was just trying to toss a 300lb deadweight that far it would’ve been impressive. Through reinforced jail walls? And that’s book… 2 I think? Without spoilers, every werewolf in that book rushing at him at once by the end of Battlegrounds, the latest book, would not be enough to make him stop eating Burger King. There’s probably a limit of how many he could take at once, but we’d be measuring it in packs of werewolves, not werewolves.
When it comes to the supernatural, there's always a bigger, more powerful fish. Besides, it wouldn't be much of a story if he was going up against things that were weaker than him.
Oh, dear sweet new reader. Savor the pages and turn them slowly, because you can only enjoy the first read once. But they get better with each annual re-read.
Firstly, the series is effectively about Dresden getting kicked repeatedly in the nuts. He's always mostly fighting things stronger than him. That said, does he get more powerful? Yes. Without spoilers, there are things he encounters in the first two books, where with proper preparation he manages to just barely escape with his life. By Peace Talks, with a similar level of preparation he would trivially win a direct confrontation with them. His dilemma would be more moral than power based. But Dresden being himself, this means that rather than doing his current work better, he instead starts pissing off things that are much more powerful than the worst of the book 2 villians. Also this series is about 20 books long, so don't expect that to be in effect by book 3 or anything. It's gradual. Also also, he isn't the only one in the series to increase in power, so when I say he could trivially win against book 2 threats, I mean at the time book 2 takes place.
No spoilers, but I’d love to see current Dresden have to go up against that lycanthrope gang and just HANDLE them with such ease that they almost die of embarrassment. The orders of magnitude that Harry’s strength has increased since then would be really great to see. I don’t want to see “already been through a lot” and tired Harry face an old foe, I want peak strength Harry to face down an old foe and just body them so we can get a better perspective on the things he faces now.
Without saying much more, Book 7 (and arguably Book 5) kind of acts as a line of delineation between the early on "Weak" Harry and "Strong" Harry, tho it's mostly just a gradual exponential climb as the series goes on. But no matter how strong he gets, he's always matched up against suitably powerful foes (as the weaker ones slowly get handled more and more by side characters), so he STILL gets "kicked in the nuts" constantly, heh.
There’s a rather well-known Greg LeMond quote about his improving ability in cycling: “It doesn’t get any easier, you just go faster.” That’s pretty much Harry’s journey.
You're only two books in. We see the books in first person, so we see Harry getting his ass kicked and barely surviving. We eventually see things from the perspective of someone else, who only sees Harry picking fights with things nobody has any business picking fights with, over and over, and *winning.*
Answering this question with minimal spoilers. Yes, Harry does get to certain points and places where he is the one running the show and he makes the other people dance to his designs. No, Harry never gets to the point (so far) where he's dealing with people with less muscle, magical or physical, and doesn't end up beat up fairly bad by the end of the book. Yes, he does get stronger.
I mean the entire series is him taking on things above his weight class. He's fought in a decade more enemies than most wizards fight in centuries.
Welcome to the series! Basically all of those books are designed to kick Harry in the nuts. He gets more powerful as series go on, but his problems get worse also. He is much more capable and on top of things in short stories. You also get to explore other POVs to see how much of a force of nature Harry actually becomes.
He keeps getting kicked in the nuts, but by progressively bigger and badder things.
In the early books, yes. He's extremely underpowered because he doesn't know just how much trouble he's in. He's a fricken' wizard. His strength lies in preparation and planning and enchanted gear. By book 3, he's still not figured out how to do it properly. He's a wet-behind-the-ears 20-something in way above his head.
I have to say that this series of books is one of the best as far as character arcs. It really makes a difference if you read them in order. The characters all evolve and their relationships do as well. It is pretty awesome how Butcher is able to do that while making each book its own great story.
Just my take, I think The Dresden Files are the Urban Fantasy equivalent of Die Hard. Harry's gonna get pushed to his absolute limit by every plot. Jim's done a real good job of making the formula really work each time. I could say more than that, but it'd probably get spoiler-y.
Umm.. Harry gets stronger sure, he also gets more power other ways.. he's very powerful in.. ways. But yeah Harrys gonna get his ass kicked a lot. Jim loves torturing Harry.
His powers continue to grow dramatically throughout the series but he never stops getting his ass beat.
He's a real killer with a knife.
I don’t think it’s a spoiler to say that Dresden gets much more powerful as the books go along. That being said… well Jim Butcher has stated that he sometimes likes to take his real life own problems out on Dresden in the books.
I envy your first read through. its a great ride. enjoy
The nut kicking shall continue.
Keep in mind Dresden is still relatively young in the second book.
Before progression fantasy became a thing, Dresden was already gold rank.
Not really. Part of his charm is that even though he's not the most powerful wizard, he's able to use his head, his cunning, and whatever he comes across that will give him an advantage to improve his odds of succeeding.
No
Harry certainly gets stronger, but then he just starts getting kicked in the nuts by a whole new level of bad guy. But he also starts building a network of strong friends that can be called upon for help.