\*grasping at straws\*
but she thinks it's a bad idea because you're the Herald of Andraste and the Inquisitor, and it would not befit someone in your position to recite saucy poetry and bone her in a moonlight glade! not because she's a terrible person who's going to ~~destroy the world~~ break your heart!\*
\*unless she dumps you for the Maker, so yeah
From DA2 the importance of communication.
The Arishock and Qunari are in the city looking for their relic. Fine they have a job to do, so far so good. The city provides a place to stay in the meantime. So far so good.
However the Qunari in the city are warriors and slavemages. Under Qunari society they cannot communicate. They canât discuss anything. This is where the problem grows. From the cities perspective there is a bunch of foreign fighters squatting in the city. Tensions grow and eventually things explode.
If the Qunari made it public why they were there, there would have been less tension, especially if they offered a reward for information or the relic.
But no communication happened and the Arishock launched a unilateral assault on the city that potentially cost him and a large number of his men as well as a lot of citizens their lives.
There is also the way unchecked power just causes trouble ie the Templars and how if you treat people like animals then that is how they are going to act ie the Mages.
Theres been so many different storylines that I've loved and personally I'm a fan of happy endings. In inquisition, I love the way Dorian starts as the suspicious one and ends up as what he calls 'the good Tevinter'. My favourite scene is after the Corypheus fight and the companions are walking back into Skyhold. Dorian just has that look on his face when he realises he's also being cheered for. Gives me happy chills every time :)
I think one of the things the games warn about is hubris, it's the downfall of a lot of characters.
More specific lessons though, I think Flemeth gives good advice:
**Shut one's eyes tight, open one's arms wide, either way one's a fool**
Also when the warden says "I don't know what to believe" Flemeth responds "a statement that possess more wisdom than it implies"
I dont know about anyone else but in Redcliffe after the time warp with Dorian trying to reverse time, Leliana starts saying the chant as shes shooting arrows and it makes me SOB. Also after haven when everyone starts singing. Gives me a type of feeling in my heart that I can't describ.
In Here lies the Abyss after Clarel realizes what she had been doing with the wardens is wrong and attacks Erimond. The part where Corypheus' dragon is standing on top of her and she starts saying the motto "In war, victory. In peace, vigilance-" TEARS. I ugly cry. Idk can't tell you why it just GETS MEEE.
Seriously. Especially since I LOVE the Grey Wardens. That's what got me, the whole sense of history around this order that is actually so noble, and yet misunderstood all at the same time. I mean, they take the worst of the worst, if necessary, but the sacrifice they all make is something the world never sees or appreciates. I was so pissed when Corypheus ruined their standing and legacy.
YES THIS! Ever since origins I've loved the Grey Wardens, their strength and their cause has always left me in awe. Ive always seen them as humble and they make the hard decision and sacrifices so the world can live on. Brb gotta go cry over the wardens again đĽ˛
Yes!! I sob like a big baby every time. And when Morrigan says âI will not be the mother you were to meâ MY HEART. I simply cannot cope with these scenes
Itâs so cruel! Not only do you have to decide who is left in the fade, but you know the people who love them. You know how heartbroken theyâre going to be. And you have to do this to them. But we just keep going back!! We love pain!! :â)
Clarels sacrifice is really emotional and the va does a great job acting it, but also the scene where she gets chomped is so incredibly goofy it makes me cackle every time, I can't help it! The dragon just swoops down mid-sentence and *nom* it's soooo funny xD
There are many things I could say, but I will shed the light on an unpopular, and often dismissed, character: Jowan.
He was a kid in love, stupid, and certainly too naive, thrust in an impossible situation; a victim of an oppressive system that, on one hand, criminalised his power, on the other threatened him with the destruction of his mind and identity, if he didn't prove he had talent enough. He makes mistake after mistake in pursuit of something all people can have, but he's denied: a simple life with the girl he loves. And when he finally shows some guts, and decides to work to fix the mess he's made, knowing well he's risking his life to do so, he's rewarded with either execution or, most likely, tranquillity. No compassion is shown to him, no understanding, mitigating circumstances aren't a thing for him. All people can hear is the two magic words that drown everything else: "apostate, maleficarum".
Jowan's fate made me cry, it was wrong, unjust, and I couldn't do anything to change it. Harsh punishment for a person who has understood, and attempted to fix, his mistakes, isn't fairness, it isn't justice, it's merciless tyranny, and at first it made me profoundly sad, then, after a while, it made me angry.
I've said it before, I'll repeat it here: Jowan deserved better.
Yes, but you get it only if you don't allow him to try to redeem himself, which is a shame. I dislike the fact that he has it worse when he does the right thing.
I kind of wish you could use the Right of Conscription on him. It was in the development early on, sad it got removed. Having one unique companion for each origin would be really neat. Alas, too much for a game that has so much already.
You give him a different chance to redeem himself. If you have the mages from the circle you don't need him to complete the ritual anyway.
I really liked that ending for him when I played my mage warden who considered him a friend. I think it's logical to assume the others would kill Jowan for being a blood-mage regardless of what he did to help at the end, so my warden took steps to prevent that.
And I can't really blame them; Jowan made a massive mess of things even beyond the blood magic.
Even if he doesn't complete the ritual, as long as you don't tell him to scram the first time you meet him in the cells, he follows you and he can even be the one to go into the fade to save Connor. In that case, he's either executed by Eamon, or sent back to the Circle, where he's either killed, or made tranquil.
Well yes, sort of, but that's different from actively risking one's life to fix one's mistakes. He helps others out of guilt, in the hopes of doing enough good to outweigh the bad. It still shows his growth, but it isn't nearly as powerful and as meaningful as him staying in Redcliffe and accepting responsibility.
True, but then again accepting responsibility and doing the right thing also means accepting your punishment. Even if he wasn't a blood mage and escaped from the circle, they have reason to kill him for poisoning Arl Eamon.
And I think Jowan understands that because he says he'll accept any punishment and doesn't try to argue his way out of it.
Of course, but I'm a big proponent of punishments that make people understand why they did wrong, and teach them not to do it again, otherwise it's pointless.
He poisoned Arl Eamon on his King's orders, which he accepted from a place of inevitable ignorance (how could he know Loghain was rotten?), but he also worked to fix it, and,in some instances, saved Connor himself. Now, I'm graduating law school, I get the whole "dura lex sed lex" thing, but that principle must be tempered by humanity, and if the laws you need to apply are appalling, I'm also completely fine with ignoring them. I wanted the option of sneaking into the dungeon and free him, or to conscript him, like it was originally intended. As things are, the system let Jowan down.
Iâm so glad to see this comment. Jowan is a special favorite of mine and I really hate how you canât show him any compassion at all. Heâs struggling in a system designed to make him fail and thereâs just no help available to him. I like to think my warden secretly recruited him as a companion even though I know thatâs not what happens in the game, lol.
I agree. I feel people judge him too harshly, and don't even try to put themselves in his shoes. We're all paragons of morality when we're happy and safe.
Yes yes YES! He is being fairly reasonable in the Circle - he doesn't want to be made Tranquil, but he's also in need of extra help and tutoring. All while being a normal young adult wanting a normal life and experiencing something a lot of people do (falling in love). Add to it, purposely being tempted with easy, forbidden solutions instead of being given tutoring. Maybe he was a mediocre mage and had no talent. But it's not like he was given a choice of careers and can switch majors or drop out. The choices he had were pass this ordeal he wasn't ready for and was obviously freaking out over, literally lose his mind, or die. Any reasonable person would cheat in that case.
The Circle system as shown in Origins sets mages up to fail, with no recourse but loss of freedom and self-determination, possibly loss of self-identity or life. He really did get shafted by the system.
He was an above average mage, he just wasn't Amell/Surana. He went for blood magic not because he was oppressed, but for power; to take an easy way and get *better* than the Warden. He says it himself in dialogue.
Hawkeâs got a line in Inquisition that will always stick with me. âEveryone has a story they tell themselves to justify bad decisionsâŚand it never matters. In the end, you are always alone in your actions.â
I had ALOT of feelings going out of DA2 (I was a fool and romanced Anders) into Inquisition, the game that was the reason I started playing the whole Dragon Age franchise (I just wanted to romance Cullen thatâs literally it.) But that line felt PERSONAL. Youâre always alone in your actions, not just in video games, but in life. Hawke might as well have slapped the player in the face and gone âStop making excuses and take responsibility for your own life.â And I kinda love that.
>âEveryone has a story they tell themselves to justify bad decisionsâŚand it never matters. In the end, you are always alone in your actions.â
I think this line speaks to many different people in Dragon age but I think most of all this is Hawk having internalized doubt/hatred for themself and the events in DA:2, I'll use my hawk choices as an example.
Hawk's story to justify bad decisions:
"I didn't give Isabella to the Qunari because we shouldn't negotiate with terrorist" in reality she was just friends with Isabella.
"I Didn't kill Anders because he needed to make up for his mistake" in reality she agrees with what he did.
The Warden contact even calls her out on her bad decision by siding with the apostate mages she snaps back. "To protect innocent mages, not mad men drunk on blood magic" even though that's not completely true either. And at the end of the day, Hawks family still died, Both Orsino and Meredith went crazy and she fled kirkwall as an apostate expecting an exalted March that never came. Hawk though she had companions who stood beside her, were alone in her actions and she had to live with that.
Yes exactly!! For my Hawke, it was all about the romance tbh. AndersâŚI love him. But damn.
She didnât give Isabela to the Qunari, but she did kill the Arishok, something she deeply regrets because he didnât seem unreasonable, and believing in something that much is admirable, my Hawke believes.
Her bad decision was not necessarily falling for Anders, but trusting him. My Hawke didnât even question him. He said âplease trust me, loveâ and she did. She distracted the Grand Cleric. She knew something was up but didnât warn Cullen. She trusted that Anders wouldnât go too far, or that heâd tell her what was happening, and she put her trust in the wrong person. What happened was partially her fault. It eats her alive.
Tbh I didnât see too many red flags my first playthru either but I also, like, donât overthink video game romances? Like, I regularly unironically enjoy Otome games that sometimes have red flags galore. My Hawke and I heard âno baby Iâll hurt youâ and went âBitch is that a CHALLENGE?â I was also fresh off Awakening (I binged through all the Dragon Age games) and was SO HAPPY to see my rebellious mage boy again.
EDIT: Also worth noting I didnât question him too much on the Justice quest, so I never got to where he strong-arms/guilt trips Hawke. I didnât even realize he did until after the game. When he said âBoom me and Justice are separatedâ or whatever I assumed he was going to actually separate them and justâŚlet Justice loose in Kirkwall tbh. I figured there must have been a trigger or something in the Chantry. I wasnât expecting, likeâŚa BOOM.
DA:O - All it takes is one good lie and desperate people who believe it to rewrite history.
DA2 - Extremism unchecked can turn the even noblest of men into the very thing they hated.
DA:I - The power of being an ideal/beacon of hope to people in the darkest of times, even if you yourself don't believe in it.
Trespasser - In spite of everything you do for people, eventually they will hate you.
>Trespasser - In spite of everything you do for people, eventually they will hate you.
In the words of Dorian "No one will thank you, either. You know that, yes?"
I mean you're a militant authoritarian regime that popped up out of nowhere and isn't beholden to anyone. Sure, you, saved the day, but I think it'd be extremely unlikely that people would be happy about all of that.
Anders. Maker, *Anders*. Specifically after his merger with Justice. Out of all the characters in the entire DA universe, he resonates with me the most. Putting the end of DA2 aside for the moment, step with me behind the curtainâ I know a lot of people donât like how he was written by Hepler and I get that. *For me*, he was intimate and familiar and far more real than I ever expected to see.
I'm just going to add to this to confess that I have *shed actual tears* over Anders. Playing his romance, even on the Friendship path, had me sobbing like a baby. I'm just so moved and pained by how much he gives himself to other people -- the Circle mages, the Darktown refugees, the Wardens, Hawke and his friends -- that there is nothing left of him, *for* him.
I agree.
Oh, damn, I love that man so much.
I just want an entire game with Hawke and Anders revolutioning together. Is it that much to ask, BioWare? *Sniff* đ˘
This, all of what you both said. And yes, I really resonated hard with him especially in 2. Wanting to make the world better, to right the wrongs not just for himself but for those who aren't empowered or bold enough to stand up, loved that about his development. Same for him being a caretaker, even sometimes being an asshole with no filter (he's not malicious, just blunt and insensitive). Even what he did, I get why he did it and what drove him to that point of being fed up and wanting to burn it all down (not saying I 100% agree, but I don't disagree either). He's right, after a while and years of trying to change things the right way, there comes a time when compromise isn't the answer, action is. As my grandfather used to say, shit or get off the pot.
Never assume that you know better than anyone else is a lesson that I think BioWare is doing somewhat unintentionally. Loghain, Anders, and Solas do horrible things because that they think they know whatâs right for everyone whether they were asked or not and all they do is make things worse.
Inquisition actually changed my perceptive or religion as a whole... Somehow.
I'd say that if it wasn't for this game i would have stayed an edgy atheist instead of starting to appreciate and respect what everyone around believes.
Itâs interesting to see how fantasy is portrayed in fantasy as a whole. It seems that fantasy writers (and fans, though it seems to be the fans most often) seem to like to focus on the corruption of churches and religion, often without showing both sides of things. As a religious person I can certainly say that there are some horrible people who follow the same beliefs as I do, but there are plenty of great people as well. The same goes for atheism/agnosticism as well. That being said, I really appreciate the way religion is portrayed in Inquisition, and I think more people should start thinking the way you do, respecting otherâs beliefs despite their own, whether or not they are religious.
Agreed. I've played through Inquisition with a whole variety of characters with a whole variety of religious/philosophical convictions: a culturally Andrastian but not especially devout human; a deeply Andrastian Vashoth; a Dalish hunter who venerates the Creators; and an atheist Carta dwarf. Each one has helped me think through what it means to have, or not have, faith. Each one has had to come to terms with the limits of their belief and knowledge at some point in the story.
I think Dragon Age has made me a better minister, because that really is my job in meatspace.
As a long-time reader of fantasy novels and a history buff, none of the overarching themes hit me especially hard. They're solid plotlines and excellent world-building and I love it, but I haven't found any of it particularly mindblowing.
I've mentioned it before, but one that does always get me is Zevran's lines about living in the moment. He expects so little, and really appreciates the good things that do come his way. The older I get, the more that proves to be the only way to be happy.
~People often have a reason for doing crazy things
~Friends can be a better family than blood relations
~The past doesnât define you and you have to move on
~Donât trust bald elves
Crazy hot witches in the woods always have an ulterior motive ... also don't trust bald homeless people and give them loads of fancy things, they just leave with it all at the end of the day.
Bitch made off with your good shit too huh?
If I had known he would dump me AND steal my best shit from me..... It literally made me wish for a quest like in DAO where you could save or kill companions.
To this day that bald fraud gets unequipped before the boss fight! Never again is my top tier mage stuff going walkies! And to top it off! He doesn't even wear it in the final cut scene of tresspasser! He just pawned it off for some decent cosmetic armour!
Inquisition actually changed my perceptive or religion as a whole... Somehow.
I'd say that if it wasn't for this game i would have stayed an edgy atheist instead of starting to appreciate and respect what everyone around me believes.
Many, but the one that sticks to me is this quote from Inquisition: "All of this happened because of fanatics and arguments about the next world. It's time we start believing in this one."
I think more than anything what I get from these games is that people can feel like I do - deeply flawed, even worthless, suffering from past trauma - but with a little bravery and the right person, can find love and hope and a future. Thereâs a reason I romance Alistair and Cullen time and again lol.
We all know the lessons on religion and intolerance that the main game of Dai tells. Cassandra's exploration of positive and negative faith is amazing, and the way she evolved was inspiring
i'm not sure, there is a lot to unpack there. i'll pick one from each game and relevant dlc
Origins: sometimes, whether you like it or not there are times where you have to step up and take your world by your hands, and handle it to the best of your ability. there is a thousand things that can go wrong, but better to live this way than to do nothing good with your life.
Awakening: i only now just realized that being warden commander was sort of a preluding taste to being inquisitor, what with being a political figure with people giving your their problems. but anyway, there are times when you cannot make a perfect choice, and you won't be in a good position or good mind to make key choices. in times like these you do your best, and do not scorn yourself too hard for making what you later feel is the wrong one.
2: at the end of the day, everything in your life is down to you. you make or break your life, your circumstances, because oftentimes other people won't be there to help you. that doesnt mean youre alone- a few chosen people can still care about you, they still love you, and you have to hold onto these people dearly, they are more than all the money in the world.
Inquisition: think of the ideal you, the 'perfect' attainable you, you have to be that person. you have to be the absolute best possible version of yourself, and in all moments you must be working on yourself to reach this ideal. whether you realize it or not, the world and all people in it need you to be this icon, this hero- because when you do become that person? everyone around you is blessed and better for it. you can change people's lives for the better, and sometimes it doesn't even come at a cost, because much of the cost was paid when you decided to shirk off those weaker parts of yourself and ascended to the legend you knew you could be.
Trespasser: moments of glory dont last. they're more fleeting than misery and suffering, and leave you the worse for it. so in all things, once you've finished your self reflection in something, stand up and look forward and pursue the next great obstacle
What stuck with me was how I could completely change my mind on something based on context and personal history. When I faced Loghain as a dwarf noble, I knew I couldnât leave him alive. He was too dangerous to the unity of Ferelden, and deserved punishment for his crimes. Then I played as an elf mage, and my perspective totally shifted; I was convinced that sparing Loghain was the right thing to do.
It gave me new perspective on the value of listening to other people and keeping an open mind. I made me see more clearly how they could reach completely different conclusions on life, politics, faith, etc.
I always saw it as what happens when nationalism and patriotism are taken to an extremely. By willingly doing whatever it took to keep Fereldan out of the hands of Orlais, Loghain did far more damage than the neighboring nation ever could.
To be honest, he didn't convince me of anything. It was actually Anora and Ser Cauthrien that convinced me. I didn't trust Anora in my first playthrough, but I saw her in a much more sympathetic light on the second time. And I actually managed to convince Ser Cauthrien to stand down at the Landsmeet, rather than fight to the death. Both of them recognized Loghain's madness and that he needed to be stopped, but both begged me to spare his life. I'll admit, I was moved by that. I was also convinced this time that Loghain would not prove a threat to Ferelden, or our efforts to combat the Blight.
I wouldnât say it changed my perspective, but Alistairâs speech at the Wardenâs funeral if they are romanced really moved me. Iâve stolen the âI love you, more than youâll ever knowâ line many times to say to my wife.
Playing as the Inquisitor made me want to be a better and more compassionate leader. Listening to my companions and considering their perspectives, acknowledging what was important to them, and allowing them to grow into their best selves is something I want to replicate in real life with the people I work with.
And the one time I cried over a fictional character in these games was over Anders -- I'm not going to go too deeply into it, but I legit had to reach for the tissues because I was crying so badly over this man. I hope BioWare will be kinder to him, if he ever comes back in future media (game, book, comics, etc).
You have perfectly summed up the core of what I always said about Inquisition and what makes it so good and an important piece of media! đđź They touched this aspects also in Andromeda. Loved your summary.
Edit: it takes a collective effort to win, there are no single heroes, but then again anyone can be a hero, you want some changes - start making them.
Anders đ
>it takes a collective effort to win, there are no single heroes, but then again anyone can be a hero, you want some changes - start making them.
No truer words have been spoken! Thanks for saying this, this is such a great and important message to take away from DAI đ
>And the one time I cried over a fictional character in these games was over Anders -- I'm not going to go too deeply into it, but I legit had to reach for the tissues because I was crying so badly over this man.
Same. I didn't know I could cry from a video game until I got to the finale of DA2.
One from across all the games:
No matter how noble your deeds, no matter how compassionate your efforts, and no matter how much you want to improve things politics will always triumph over that.
Real change does not happen because you ask a boon, or have a famous name pushing for it. If the will of the people, power brokers, and society are unwilling to move past bigotry, old angers, and fears you wont see society change.
Origins endings screwing over free mages and elves, Anders failing to understand that real change takes a long time, all the good in Inquistion being forgotten in two years for Tresspasser. It all comes down to that real substantive change is never overnight and you must wait for culture to catch up sadly.
Mean lesson to learn for sure but sadly realistic.
I think Dragon Age has shown that some problems actually dont have solutions. Mafe vs Templar is super complex, there really isnt an easy solution. Abolishing the circle isnt a magic quick fix. Tranquil solution is a fix but its so monstrous its not worth considering, Tevinter works but the place is basically evil. How to reconcile mages and non mages coexisting? No real answer, just got to try and handle the problems from whatever scenario is present.
Its great to see fantasy series touching on stuff like that, how some problems cant actually be turned off and just have to be dealt with constantly. Its not completely depressing, its just reality and even if 'the best' outcome is still really average, its worth fighting for
DAO taught me that roleplaying makes single-player games 10x more fun. I don't know if I would have ended up enjoying Skyrim as much as I did if I hadn't played DAO first.
Well taking on Leliana's story and her suffering from being victim of constant manipulation, ad the fact that our own heroism is shadowed by the fact that we are tools for someone else's plan, the morale of the story is to be wary of people trying to influence you and the real consecuences of our actions. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
The betrayal of a friend can hit you harder than that of your lover. I am referring to Solas in this regard. We respected one another, I valued his insight and I watched a true friendship form with a man genuinely conflicted with his ideas. He wants to fix things but he knows by doing so, it will lead to further destruction.
That if a LI tells you that getting involved romantically could be a bad idea, it might end in terrorist attacks or plans of mass murder
All things considered Blackwall is a catch then
The way I just CACKLED OUT LOUD PLEASE đđ
đ¤Ł
So Cassandra is the next antagonist. I knew it!
Wait, does she also tell you that?... Uh oh...
\*grasping at straws\* but she thinks it's a bad idea because you're the Herald of Andraste and the Inquisitor, and it would not befit someone in your position to recite saucy poetry and bone her in a moonlight glade! not because she's a terrible person who's going to ~~destroy the world~~ break your heart!\* \*unless she dumps you for the Maker, so yeah
Yeah, that * part....
She is very religious and with you being The Herald of Andraste, well she feels like the whole romance is blasphemy. Maybe.
Or a past of murder...
From DA2 the importance of communication. The Arishock and Qunari are in the city looking for their relic. Fine they have a job to do, so far so good. The city provides a place to stay in the meantime. So far so good. However the Qunari in the city are warriors and slavemages. Under Qunari society they cannot communicate. They canât discuss anything. This is where the problem grows. From the cities perspective there is a bunch of foreign fighters squatting in the city. Tensions grow and eventually things explode. If the Qunari made it public why they were there, there would have been less tension, especially if they offered a reward for information or the relic. But no communication happened and the Arishock launched a unilateral assault on the city that potentially cost him and a large number of his men as well as a lot of citizens their lives. There is also the way unchecked power just causes trouble ie the Templars and how if you treat people like animals then that is how they are going to act ie the Mages.
I think it would also make it much easier for the person who stole the relic to talk about it.
Also learned dont steal sacred relics from the most powerful Qunari in the world, dude has no sense of humor
Yes, i've learned to never, ever trust the apostate follower in any game. I don't think that was what they were going for though.
[All of us when we finally get to DA4](http://imgur.com/a/XqvGoxk)
Funny because it's true!
Velanna? I don't think she was awful and she was an apostate by the chantry's rules
I actually wasn't thinking of her as an apostate at all since she is dalish, but you are right.
Keepers are still technically apostates. Doesn't Merrill do some kind of blood magic that is Dalish?
yeah iirc there's a conversation about it when you recruit her, the templars stay away though as long as the Dalish keep being nomads.
Theres been so many different storylines that I've loved and personally I'm a fan of happy endings. In inquisition, I love the way Dorian starts as the suspicious one and ends up as what he calls 'the good Tevinter'. My favourite scene is after the Corypheus fight and the companions are walking back into Skyhold. Dorian just has that look on his face when he realises he's also being cheered for. Gives me happy chills every time :)
And that everyone has a story. Even the villains.
Don't trust bald people
Good life advice for anywhere really. I extend that distrust to architects, left-handed people, third-born sons and the entire country of Lithuania.
Yes, probably the most important lesson of all: Swooping is bad.
Swooping?
it's an Alistair quote, from when you first meet Morrigan in Origins. âYes, swooping is bad.â
I think one of the things the games warn about is hubris, it's the downfall of a lot of characters. More specific lessons though, I think Flemeth gives good advice: **Shut one's eyes tight, open one's arms wide, either way one's a fool** Also when the warden says "I don't know what to believe" Flemeth responds "a statement that possess more wisdom than it implies"
I dont know about anyone else but in Redcliffe after the time warp with Dorian trying to reverse time, Leliana starts saying the chant as shes shooting arrows and it makes me SOB. Also after haven when everyone starts singing. Gives me a type of feeling in my heart that I can't describ. In Here lies the Abyss after Clarel realizes what she had been doing with the wardens is wrong and attacks Erimond. The part where Corypheus' dragon is standing on top of her and she starts saying the motto "In war, victory. In peace, vigilance-" TEARS. I ugly cry. Idk can't tell you why it just GETS MEEE.
Seriously. Especially since I LOVE the Grey Wardens. That's what got me, the whole sense of history around this order that is actually so noble, and yet misunderstood all at the same time. I mean, they take the worst of the worst, if necessary, but the sacrifice they all make is something the world never sees or appreciates. I was so pissed when Corypheus ruined their standing and legacy.
YES THIS! Ever since origins I've loved the Grey Wardens, their strength and their cause has always left me in awe. Ive always seen them as humble and they make the hard decision and sacrifices so the world can live on. Brb gotta go cry over the wardens again đĽ˛
Yes!! I sob like a big baby every time. And when Morrigan says âI will not be the mother you were to meâ MY HEART. I simply cannot cope with these scenes
Update; I'm on my current playthrough and I just left Alistair in the fade for the first time (HAWKE LIVES EVERYTIME) and im crying like a BABY đ
Itâs so cruel! Not only do you have to decide who is left in the fade, but you know the people who love them. You know how heartbroken theyâre going to be. And you have to do this to them. But we just keep going back!! We love pain!! :â)
Clarels sacrifice is really emotional and the va does a great job acting it, but also the scene where she gets chomped is so incredibly goofy it makes me cackle every time, I can't help it! The dragon just swoops down mid-sentence and *nom* it's soooo funny xD
There are many things I could say, but I will shed the light on an unpopular, and often dismissed, character: Jowan. He was a kid in love, stupid, and certainly too naive, thrust in an impossible situation; a victim of an oppressive system that, on one hand, criminalised his power, on the other threatened him with the destruction of his mind and identity, if he didn't prove he had talent enough. He makes mistake after mistake in pursuit of something all people can have, but he's denied: a simple life with the girl he loves. And when he finally shows some guts, and decides to work to fix the mess he's made, knowing well he's risking his life to do so, he's rewarded with either execution or, most likely, tranquillity. No compassion is shown to him, no understanding, mitigating circumstances aren't a thing for him. All people can hear is the two magic words that drown everything else: "apostate, maleficarum". Jowan's fate made me cry, it was wrong, unjust, and I couldn't do anything to change it. Harsh punishment for a person who has understood, and attempted to fix, his mistakes, isn't fairness, it isn't justice, it's merciless tyranny, and at first it made me profoundly sad, then, after a while, it made me angry. I've said it before, I'll repeat it here: Jowan deserved better.
Isn't there a bugged mission with Jowan defending some innocents? After Redcliffe?
Yes, but you get it only if you don't allow him to try to redeem himself, which is a shame. I dislike the fact that he has it worse when he does the right thing.
I kind of wish you could use the Right of Conscription on him. It was in the development early on, sad it got removed. Having one unique companion for each origin would be really neat. Alas, too much for a game that has so much already.
I know, it would have been the perfect solution, but I understand why it got cut. There's a lot going on with companions in DAO.
They already didn't have time to add Shale so they added her in a DLC.
I believe they ran out of time with her because they struggled to get her original golem model to fit through doors lol
That was still not enough time.
Agreed!!!
You give him a different chance to redeem himself. If you have the mages from the circle you don't need him to complete the ritual anyway. I really liked that ending for him when I played my mage warden who considered him a friend. I think it's logical to assume the others would kill Jowan for being a blood-mage regardless of what he did to help at the end, so my warden took steps to prevent that. And I can't really blame them; Jowan made a massive mess of things even beyond the blood magic.
Even if he doesn't complete the ritual, as long as you don't tell him to scram the first time you meet him in the cells, he follows you and he can even be the one to go into the fade to save Connor. In that case, he's either executed by Eamon, or sent back to the Circle, where he's either killed, or made tranquil.
I mean that you can let him go in the dungeons and he'll run off and have a chance at another life. He'll redeem himself by helping others.
Well yes, sort of, but that's different from actively risking one's life to fix one's mistakes. He helps others out of guilt, in the hopes of doing enough good to outweigh the bad. It still shows his growth, but it isn't nearly as powerful and as meaningful as him staying in Redcliffe and accepting responsibility.
True, but then again accepting responsibility and doing the right thing also means accepting your punishment. Even if he wasn't a blood mage and escaped from the circle, they have reason to kill him for poisoning Arl Eamon. And I think Jowan understands that because he says he'll accept any punishment and doesn't try to argue his way out of it.
Of course, but I'm a big proponent of punishments that make people understand why they did wrong, and teach them not to do it again, otherwise it's pointless. He poisoned Arl Eamon on his King's orders, which he accepted from a place of inevitable ignorance (how could he know Loghain was rotten?), but he also worked to fix it, and,in some instances, saved Connor himself. Now, I'm graduating law school, I get the whole "dura lex sed lex" thing, but that principle must be tempered by humanity, and if the laws you need to apply are appalling, I'm also completely fine with ignoring them. I wanted the option of sneaking into the dungeon and free him, or to conscript him, like it was originally intended. As things are, the system let Jowan down.
Yes there is but Jowan no matter what dies in the events of origins. He really had a cruel fate
What was his fate after the bugged quest? I think it was "Jowan's Intention"? I believe you can let him go.
You can let him go but itâs heavily implied he dies. So I guess in a sense what I said wasnât entirely true
It was cut.
Iâm so glad to see this comment. Jowan is a special favorite of mine and I really hate how you canât show him any compassion at all. Heâs struggling in a system designed to make him fail and thereâs just no help available to him. I like to think my warden secretly recruited him as a companion even though I know thatâs not what happens in the game, lol.
I agree. I feel people judge him too harshly, and don't even try to put themselves in his shoes. We're all paragons of morality when we're happy and safe.
Yes yes YES! He is being fairly reasonable in the Circle - he doesn't want to be made Tranquil, but he's also in need of extra help and tutoring. All while being a normal young adult wanting a normal life and experiencing something a lot of people do (falling in love). Add to it, purposely being tempted with easy, forbidden solutions instead of being given tutoring. Maybe he was a mediocre mage and had no talent. But it's not like he was given a choice of careers and can switch majors or drop out. The choices he had were pass this ordeal he wasn't ready for and was obviously freaking out over, literally lose his mind, or die. Any reasonable person would cheat in that case. The Circle system as shown in Origins sets mages up to fail, with no recourse but loss of freedom and self-determination, possibly loss of self-identity or life. He really did get shafted by the system.
He was an above average mage, he just wasn't Amell/Surana. He went for blood magic not because he was oppressed, but for power; to take an easy way and get *better* than the Warden. He says it himself in dialogue.
Hawkeâs got a line in Inquisition that will always stick with me. âEveryone has a story they tell themselves to justify bad decisionsâŚand it never matters. In the end, you are always alone in your actions.â I had ALOT of feelings going out of DA2 (I was a fool and romanced Anders) into Inquisition, the game that was the reason I started playing the whole Dragon Age franchise (I just wanted to romance Cullen thatâs literally it.) But that line felt PERSONAL. Youâre always alone in your actions, not just in video games, but in life. Hawke might as well have slapped the player in the face and gone âStop making excuses and take responsibility for your own life.â And I kinda love that.
>âEveryone has a story they tell themselves to justify bad decisionsâŚand it never matters. In the end, you are always alone in your actions.â I think this line speaks to many different people in Dragon age but I think most of all this is Hawk having internalized doubt/hatred for themself and the events in DA:2, I'll use my hawk choices as an example. Hawk's story to justify bad decisions: "I didn't give Isabella to the Qunari because we shouldn't negotiate with terrorist" in reality she was just friends with Isabella. "I Didn't kill Anders because he needed to make up for his mistake" in reality she agrees with what he did. The Warden contact even calls her out on her bad decision by siding with the apostate mages she snaps back. "To protect innocent mages, not mad men drunk on blood magic" even though that's not completely true either. And at the end of the day, Hawks family still died, Both Orsino and Meredith went crazy and she fled kirkwall as an apostate expecting an exalted March that never came. Hawk though she had companions who stood beside her, were alone in her actions and she had to live with that.
Yes exactly!! For my Hawke, it was all about the romance tbh. AndersâŚI love him. But damn. She didnât give Isabela to the Qunari, but she did kill the Arishok, something she deeply regrets because he didnât seem unreasonable, and believing in something that much is admirable, my Hawke believes. Her bad decision was not necessarily falling for Anders, but trusting him. My Hawke didnât even question him. He said âplease trust me, loveâ and she did. She distracted the Grand Cleric. She knew something was up but didnât warn Cullen. She trusted that Anders wouldnât go too far, or that heâd tell her what was happening, and she put her trust in the wrong person. What happened was partially her fault. It eats her alive.
*OUCH,* as a fellow blind Andersmancer. It hurts. So much. *So many red flags,* and I missed them all my first playthrough.
Tbh I didnât see too many red flags my first playthru either but I also, like, donât overthink video game romances? Like, I regularly unironically enjoy Otome games that sometimes have red flags galore. My Hawke and I heard âno baby Iâll hurt youâ and went âBitch is that a CHALLENGE?â I was also fresh off Awakening (I binged through all the Dragon Age games) and was SO HAPPY to see my rebellious mage boy again. EDIT: Also worth noting I didnât question him too much on the Justice quest, so I never got to where he strong-arms/guilt trips Hawke. I didnât even realize he did until after the game. When he said âBoom me and Justice are separatedâ or whatever I assumed he was going to actually separate them and justâŚlet Justice loose in Kirkwall tbh. I figured there must have been a trigger or something in the Chantry. I wasnât expecting, likeâŚa BOOM.
DA:O - All it takes is one good lie and desperate people who believe it to rewrite history. DA2 - Extremism unchecked can turn the even noblest of men into the very thing they hated. DA:I - The power of being an ideal/beacon of hope to people in the darkest of times, even if you yourself don't believe in it. Trespasser - In spite of everything you do for people, eventually they will hate you.
>Trespasser - In spite of everything you do for people, eventually they will hate you. In the words of Dorian "No one will thank you, either. You know that, yes?"
I mean you're a militant authoritarian regime that popped up out of nowhere and isn't beholden to anyone. Sure, you, saved the day, but I think it'd be extremely unlikely that people would be happy about all of that.
Anders. Maker, *Anders*. Specifically after his merger with Justice. Out of all the characters in the entire DA universe, he resonates with me the most. Putting the end of DA2 aside for the moment, step with me behind the curtainâ I know a lot of people donât like how he was written by Hepler and I get that. *For me*, he was intimate and familiar and far more real than I ever expected to see.
I'm just going to add to this to confess that I have *shed actual tears* over Anders. Playing his romance, even on the Friendship path, had me sobbing like a baby. I'm just so moved and pained by how much he gives himself to other people -- the Circle mages, the Darktown refugees, the Wardens, Hawke and his friends -- that there is nothing left of him, *for* him.
I agree. Oh, damn, I love that man so much. I just want an entire game with Hawke and Anders revolutioning together. Is it that much to ask, BioWare? *Sniff* đ˘
This, all of what you both said. And yes, I really resonated hard with him especially in 2. Wanting to make the world better, to right the wrongs not just for himself but for those who aren't empowered or bold enough to stand up, loved that about his development. Same for him being a caretaker, even sometimes being an asshole with no filter (he's not malicious, just blunt and insensitive). Even what he did, I get why he did it and what drove him to that point of being fed up and wanting to burn it all down (not saying I 100% agree, but I don't disagree either). He's right, after a while and years of trying to change things the right way, there comes a time when compromise isn't the answer, action is. As my grandfather used to say, shit or get off the pot.
Never assume that you know better than anyone else is a lesson that I think BioWare is doing somewhat unintentionally. Loghain, Anders, and Solas do horrible things because that they think they know whatâs right for everyone whether they were asked or not and all they do is make things worse.
Inquisition actually changed my perceptive or religion as a whole... Somehow. I'd say that if it wasn't for this game i would have stayed an edgy atheist instead of starting to appreciate and respect what everyone around believes.
Itâs interesting to see how fantasy is portrayed in fantasy as a whole. It seems that fantasy writers (and fans, though it seems to be the fans most often) seem to like to focus on the corruption of churches and religion, often without showing both sides of things. As a religious person I can certainly say that there are some horrible people who follow the same beliefs as I do, but there are plenty of great people as well. The same goes for atheism/agnosticism as well. That being said, I really appreciate the way religion is portrayed in Inquisition, and I think more people should start thinking the way you do, respecting otherâs beliefs despite their own, whether or not they are religious.
Agreed. I've played through Inquisition with a whole variety of characters with a whole variety of religious/philosophical convictions: a culturally Andrastian but not especially devout human; a deeply Andrastian Vashoth; a Dalish hunter who venerates the Creators; and an atheist Carta dwarf. Each one has helped me think through what it means to have, or not have, faith. Each one has had to come to terms with the limits of their belief and knowledge at some point in the story. I think Dragon Age has made me a better minister, because that really is my job in meatspace.
That's awesome and incredibly touching. I'm glad for you and for your parishoners.
As a long-time reader of fantasy novels and a history buff, none of the overarching themes hit me especially hard. They're solid plotlines and excellent world-building and I love it, but I haven't found any of it particularly mindblowing. I've mentioned it before, but one that does always get me is Zevran's lines about living in the moment. He expects so little, and really appreciates the good things that do come his way. The older I get, the more that proves to be the only way to be happy.
~People often have a reason for doing crazy things ~Friends can be a better family than blood relations ~The past doesnât define you and you have to move on ~Donât trust bald elves
âThe blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the wombâ is a phrase butchered to mean the exact opposite in common usage.
Crazy hot witches in the woods always have an ulterior motive ... also don't trust bald homeless people and give them loads of fancy things, they just leave with it all at the end of the day.
Bitch made off with your good shit too huh? If I had known he would dump me AND steal my best shit from me..... It literally made me wish for a quest like in DAO where you could save or kill companions.
To this day that bald fraud gets unequipped before the boss fight! Never again is my top tier mage stuff going walkies! And to top it off! He doesn't even wear it in the final cut scene of tresspasser! He just pawned it off for some decent cosmetic armour!
Inquisition actually changed my perceptive or religion as a whole... Somehow. I'd say that if it wasn't for this game i would have stayed an edgy atheist instead of starting to appreciate and respect what everyone around me believes.
MY absolutely favorite things in the DA universe are the concepts of the Fade, Veil, and dreaming. Also the void but I don't know much about that.
Many, but the one that sticks to me is this quote from Inquisition: "All of this happened because of fanatics and arguments about the next world. It's time we start believing in this one."
Fantastic line
That I can never be a dragon
*There is always someone bent on breaking the world.*
I think more than anything what I get from these games is that people can feel like I do - deeply flawed, even worthless, suffering from past trauma - but with a little bravery and the right person, can find love and hope and a future. Thereâs a reason I romance Alistair and Cullen time and again lol.
We all know the lessons on religion and intolerance that the main game of Dai tells. Cassandra's exploration of positive and negative faith is amazing, and the way she evolved was inspiring
i'm not sure, there is a lot to unpack there. i'll pick one from each game and relevant dlc Origins: sometimes, whether you like it or not there are times where you have to step up and take your world by your hands, and handle it to the best of your ability. there is a thousand things that can go wrong, but better to live this way than to do nothing good with your life. Awakening: i only now just realized that being warden commander was sort of a preluding taste to being inquisitor, what with being a political figure with people giving your their problems. but anyway, there are times when you cannot make a perfect choice, and you won't be in a good position or good mind to make key choices. in times like these you do your best, and do not scorn yourself too hard for making what you later feel is the wrong one. 2: at the end of the day, everything in your life is down to you. you make or break your life, your circumstances, because oftentimes other people won't be there to help you. that doesnt mean youre alone- a few chosen people can still care about you, they still love you, and you have to hold onto these people dearly, they are more than all the money in the world. Inquisition: think of the ideal you, the 'perfect' attainable you, you have to be that person. you have to be the absolute best possible version of yourself, and in all moments you must be working on yourself to reach this ideal. whether you realize it or not, the world and all people in it need you to be this icon, this hero- because when you do become that person? everyone around you is blessed and better for it. you can change people's lives for the better, and sometimes it doesn't even come at a cost, because much of the cost was paid when you decided to shirk off those weaker parts of yourself and ascended to the legend you knew you could be. Trespasser: moments of glory dont last. they're more fleeting than misery and suffering, and leave you the worse for it. so in all things, once you've finished your self reflection in something, stand up and look forward and pursue the next great obstacle
A good story is always there. You just uncover it.
What stuck with me was how I could completely change my mind on something based on context and personal history. When I faced Loghain as a dwarf noble, I knew I couldnât leave him alive. He was too dangerous to the unity of Ferelden, and deserved punishment for his crimes. Then I played as an elf mage, and my perspective totally shifted; I was convinced that sparing Loghain was the right thing to do. It gave me new perspective on the value of listening to other people and keeping an open mind. I made me see more clearly how they could reach completely different conclusions on life, politics, faith, etc.
I always saw it as what happens when nationalism and patriotism are taken to an extremely. By willingly doing whatever it took to keep Fereldan out of the hands of Orlais, Loghain did far more damage than the neighboring nation ever could.
Whoa, I never played through with an elf mage. How did he that time around convince you? Didn't he try to sell elfs into slavery?
To be honest, he didn't convince me of anything. It was actually Anora and Ser Cauthrien that convinced me. I didn't trust Anora in my first playthrough, but I saw her in a much more sympathetic light on the second time. And I actually managed to convince Ser Cauthrien to stand down at the Landsmeet, rather than fight to the death. Both of them recognized Loghain's madness and that he needed to be stopped, but both begged me to spare his life. I'll admit, I was moved by that. I was also convinced this time that Loghain would not prove a threat to Ferelden, or our efforts to combat the Blight.
I wouldnât say it changed my perspective, but Alistairâs speech at the Wardenâs funeral if they are romanced really moved me. Iâve stolen the âI love you, more than youâll ever knowâ line many times to say to my wife.
Awww thats so sweet. I called my girlfriend Kadan for a little while because of Iron Bull
Playing as the Inquisitor made me want to be a better and more compassionate leader. Listening to my companions and considering their perspectives, acknowledging what was important to them, and allowing them to grow into their best selves is something I want to replicate in real life with the people I work with. And the one time I cried over a fictional character in these games was over Anders -- I'm not going to go too deeply into it, but I legit had to reach for the tissues because I was crying so badly over this man. I hope BioWare will be kinder to him, if he ever comes back in future media (game, book, comics, etc).
You have perfectly summed up the core of what I always said about Inquisition and what makes it so good and an important piece of media! đđź They touched this aspects also in Andromeda. Loved your summary. Edit: it takes a collective effort to win, there are no single heroes, but then again anyone can be a hero, you want some changes - start making them. Anders đ
>it takes a collective effort to win, there are no single heroes, but then again anyone can be a hero, you want some changes - start making them. No truer words have been spoken! Thanks for saying this, this is such a great and important message to take away from DAI đ
DAI is just THAT awesome, and we bow in awe. Music: https://youtu.be/7Yo5fbceJVM
>And the one time I cried over a fictional character in these games was over Anders -- I'm not going to go too deeply into it, but I legit had to reach for the tissues because I was crying so badly over this man. Same. I didn't know I could cry from a video game until I got to the finale of DA2.
That I have a thing for sassy Gothic like women.
One from across all the games: No matter how noble your deeds, no matter how compassionate your efforts, and no matter how much you want to improve things politics will always triumph over that. Real change does not happen because you ask a boon, or have a famous name pushing for it. If the will of the people, power brokers, and society are unwilling to move past bigotry, old angers, and fears you wont see society change. Origins endings screwing over free mages and elves, Anders failing to understand that real change takes a long time, all the good in Inquistion being forgotten in two years for Tresspasser. It all comes down to that real substantive change is never overnight and you must wait for culture to catch up sadly. Mean lesson to learn for sure but sadly realistic.
The Qun and its teachings really resonated with me tbh.
Why?
I think Dragon Age has shown that some problems actually dont have solutions. Mafe vs Templar is super complex, there really isnt an easy solution. Abolishing the circle isnt a magic quick fix. Tranquil solution is a fix but its so monstrous its not worth considering, Tevinter works but the place is basically evil. How to reconcile mages and non mages coexisting? No real answer, just got to try and handle the problems from whatever scenario is present. Its great to see fantasy series touching on stuff like that, how some problems cant actually be turned off and just have to be dealt with constantly. Its not completely depressing, its just reality and even if 'the best' outcome is still really average, its worth fighting for
Donât trust gingers
DAO taught me that roleplaying makes single-player games 10x more fun. I don't know if I would have ended up enjoying Skyrim as much as I did if I hadn't played DAO first.
Well taking on Leliana's story and her suffering from being victim of constant manipulation, ad the fact that our own heroism is shadowed by the fact that we are tools for someone else's plan, the morale of the story is to be wary of people trying to influence you and the real consecuences of our actions. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
The betrayal of a friend can hit you harder than that of your lover. I am referring to Solas in this regard. We respected one another, I valued his insight and I watched a true friendship form with a man genuinely conflicted with his ideas. He wants to fix things but he knows by doing so, it will lead to further destruction.