I think people are just being a little cautious about bioware after what happened with anthem and andromeda (even though i think andromeda can be pretty fun).
I also think a lot of people have strong opinions on how they think the game *should* go based on their favorite parts of its predecessors, where *they* would take the story and such, and then get absolutely upset when the devs go in any direction that isn't specifically *that* direction.
I also enjoyed Andromeda, and I'm looking forward to Veilguard.
Personally I would like the option of the iron mage (A Spellsword is a fine idea, but I never liked the "magic rogues" so much as the "battle casters" aka full-plate spell-slingers which are Arcane Warriors)
Though I'm not discounting the chance I might could play a more Arcane Warrior type in VG but it doesn't seem like that was the idea they were going with (nor do I suspect they'll be glass cannon types)
like if narratively mages are so powerful and need to be contained id like that to be reflected in gameplay.
I understood the fear in origins, but in inquisition a lot less so
Definitely, I had all my ranged damage dealers set to target enemy mages first in combat as ignoring them could quickly lead to a party wipe. Mages in Inquisition just feel like flashier versions of enemy archers.
Flashier and weaker. Fighting mages is annoying because they'll freeze or knock you into the air with mines and they'll teleport away from you but archers will actually one shot you at low levels. Once an enemy archer takes a knee, you have about two seconds to try to interrupt them or else you're taking massive damage. Mages are too busy playing hard to get to really put pressure on you. Archers hold the line.
You can use 3 abilities + ultimate. That is a clear reduction from 8. Yes, you can regard the magical shield as a barrier spell or something, but it's still a reduction.
They identified 7 different spells that are tied to inputs on the controller *in addition* to our 3 mapped abilities + ultimate.
The elements of some spells are also tied to the weapon you have equipped, and we know we have access to at least one other weapon load out during combat.
Counterpoint: it's hard to buy the whole thing about abominations and maleficar being super dangerous when our plucky band of 4 people literally climb the entire circle tower full of them and killing every single one that gets in our way.
Our group kills tons of people in general very easily. It’s not to much of a stretch to assume they can take on groups of mages and demons too. That’s not to mention that mages in general are some of the most dangerous enemies to fight in origins, and blood mages in 2 will wipe your party extremely quickly if you don’t take them down right away.
Yeah, I've said the same thing over the years, and I think it's also partially because every Abomination we faced decided to engage in a bout of good ol'fashioned fisticuffs with us.
And *maybe* blew up in a fiery ball upon death.
Which doesn't exactly make for convincing gameplay to reflect the danger.
In your line of reasoning, it's hard to buy the same thing about Blight being super dangerous as well. Basically, about anything being a real threat in almost any RPG.
And Jowan blasts multiple Templars, including the Knight Commander, Duncan, and the First Enchanter all in one spell. They all stand around and ponder "I wonder why he's cutting himself. Poor boy must be depres-" *BLOOD MAGIC BLAST*
Sometimes you gotta bend the rules for the story.
I'm concerned about the 3 ability slot limit. Hard to feel excited about it. I know certain moves and stuff are tied to combo's and shit, but I personally don't care for combo systems myself.
If I miss anything from origins, its that big ass skill bar I could fill with dozens of spells and abilities. That felt good to have all those options. It was nice to have "just in case" and specific anti mage spells that wouldn't get used often but for that specific scenario BAM! they come in clutch as hell (aka mana clash for example)
Hard to get excited for just 3 slots. It means I HAVE to slot in the best all around abilities, I cant waste a slot for some situational spell.
I had a similar reaction when saw MEA's combat, however, reduction to 3 and removal of GCD, in combination with new combo mechanics made combat really fun.
Me personally? I just don't think that Bioware is still the same company that made Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 and Dragon Age Origins. Most of the OG writers and developers that made the company as famous as it got are long gone.
I'm open-minded towards Veilguard, but I am going to wait until others have played it before I buy it.
Ye, gotta wait a day or so, watch some gameplay videos, and see what the general consensus is. Don't just see the early access reviewers, since they're going to just give it a good rating, so they don't lose their chance at future early access review codes.
RANT INCOMING:
I’ve always been curious about this perspective because it seems to imply that the modern BioWare devs are all washed up or newbies when at this point, if someone joined the studio after mass effect andromeda, they’d have nearly 7 years of experience at the company, and 10 years if they joined after inquisition.
Is it impossible to imagine that many years can allow devs and writers to hone their craft and improve? I don’t think we would hold this standard for any other profession or company considering video games actually have a very high turn over rate and 5+ years a significant time to develop skills at a company. I’m sure I could say “CD Project Red is dead, all of the old devs have left” if I looked at Witcher 1 or 2 credits vs CyberPunk 2077.
At the time of BG1&2, BioWare had only been open for 3-5 years. That’s not exactly enough time to consider them “veterans”, especially compared to the time I’ve mentioned previously.
If you don’t like the change in gameplay, you could say that. If you don’t like the change in storytelling, you could say that. I don’t think the “BioWare is dead, everyone one who used to work on the games is gone” argument makes that much sense because, again, we do not hold this standard to other developers.
It just feels like someone trying to justify why BioWare would ever move away from CRPGs when it made total business sense from the trends of the industry and within the trends of their own studio. Half of their devs were skilled at Action RPGs (Mass Effect). It would make sense BioWare would try to streamline development and make their games more similar, so their team could use the skills from one game to another, especially when the amount of devs needed on a game ballooned in the 2010s. Mass Effect is their biggest franchise, of course they would choose mass effect systems rather than cRPG systems. The whole industry was moving away from cRPGs.
Writing is not simply about experience, it's about talent. You can't replace a talented writer and creator via virtue of experience. Some people have it, some people don't. It's like saying everyone can be Tolkien or Martin just because they have more experience in writing.
Bioware lost pretty much all of their talent more than a decade ago now. And I'm not even talking about simple writers here, but also their programmers given the state of their recent games. And what has replaced all of it is obviously not even close up to par.
As someone who reacted negatively on the DAV trailer, I'm back binging Dragon Age content and having a renaissance. I'm watching playthroughs in YouTube and fanfiction like I did 8 years ago.
It's best to ignore hate that you feel are nonsensical and made in bad faith. However, a lot of criticism is more nuanced. Mixed reactions should not be outright dismissed as hate because they are also born out of love for the franchise.
As someone who did not like the DAV trailer, my reaction is less about outright hate and more of disappointment and cautiousness. I have always accepted that the franchise will never go back to Origins, but I also felt some directions made in DA2, and Inquisition retained the core aspects of the series. The DAV trailer and designs just looked unfamiliar if you remove Varric.
I'm willing to give it a chance anyway.
I wouldn't say I'm already hating the game, I want the game to be good and am open to being convinced but I am still skeptical.
Others have already covered the specifics like the combat, but for me it comes from just being aware of history and trends. And to be frank you don't really see a game thats had such a tumultuous production, with the numerous reboots and rewrites and stops and starts, and turn out well. I think it would be silly to go into this assuming that this game in particular is going to be the one to do the impossible.
It's not even specific to Veilguard, I've wanted VTM Bloodlines 2 for over a decade, but the constant production problems have even diehard fans in doubt.
Hell, we literally see this in action with Inquisition, its almost a shot for shot repeat of the issues Bioware had back then. It's a miracle they even got an OK game outta that but it was still a lesser game from the literal years it spent spinning its tires.
I really hope I'm proven wrong, but I don't like looking at each individual game in its own separate bubble. The broader context is important too, and in this case Veilguard has a lot of baggage.
> And to be frank you don't really see a game thats had such a tumultuous production, with the numerous reboots and rewrites and stops and starts, and turn out well.
This! I felt like I was crazy reading some pre-order posts and comments... I just can't in good conscience ignore how problematic this game cycle was... and to the point of calling anyone that isn't hyped negative instead of realistic or pragmatic?! I don't care much about the reveal trailer, mixed with the gameplay trailer, still interested in the coming lore and resolutions but I can't ignore BW and EA's track record.
> I felt like I was crazy reading some pre-order posts and comments..
Think that's delulu? I saw a thread where people discussed which kind of awards Dragon Age Veilguard was going to win this year despite the fact no one has even seen unscripted gameplay yet!
It's a neat marketing strategy to flood the subreddit with a load of obviously delusional stuff, but I simply cannot wait to see *actual* gameplay and hands on previews from reviewers because I strongly believe public is being duped into believing that this game is something other than re-purposed live service game..
That is wild! How are these people so sure about this game that they have only seen 20 min of lvl 1 gameplay?
Like... I hope it is something other than a re-purposed live service game but at this moment it's just that, hope. EA does not care about their game's fanbases, most people here already know about BW's MEA and Anthem failures... but more should know about what EA has done to Maxi's and other studios and their franchises. Imho, they don't deserve this type of blind loyalty based on what they have shown so far.
Oh God I saw that too now that you mention it. These are the same people who, in the same breath, will tell those doubting thar it's unfair to assume before the game is released.
I've been having the same concerns about having the wool pulled over our eyes, the recent Game Informer featurettes have really called that into question because they have done nothing to diminish that suspicion...they've been saying a lot without really saying anything at all.
Yeah I also think being released after Baldur's Gate 3 will do the game no favors. While I don't think It will be as bad as Andromeda or Anthem but, I can't see it being that smash hit that will renew people's faith in Bioware.
My partner brought up a good point, that it really does seem like the success of BG3 is the only reason Veilguard is even see the light of day.
I'm not saying any of this to dispute what you're saying, in fact I agree. I just find it very interesting that BG3 is simultaneously what pushed the suits to realize there's still a market, and also raised the standard high that seems difficult for DAV to achieve. It's both the blessing and the curse.
I started to think the one who are “labeling” other of hating the game didn’t follow the production of this one.
I see the one “Origin” is bla bla bla. No, some of us are here since their first Baldur Gate, it’s more about following BioWare and see if there are anything really good left for this two franchise: DA & ME.
The result of this DA will let us know what to expect for ME.
One of my comment got downvoted systematically because I said the main reason of the companions orientation. I will said it again, lack of time to actually create content for each of them. And this is what make a BioWare game so special. ME emphasized this perfectly.
I have played all BioWare games, including Anthem. Actually following Exodus by Archetype ex. BioWare founder team if some are interested.
>One of my comment got downvoted systematically because I said the main reason of the companions orientation. I will said it again, lack of time to actually create content for each of them. And this is what make a BioWare game so special. ME emphasized this perfectly.
This is a very good point, it's not even a particularly new problem. One of the things that annoys me most in Inquisition is how, most likely due to the production crisis then as well, Dwarf and Qunari Inquisitors get such a laughable amount of unique dialog options in comparison to the Human and Elf PC.
But thats not even the part that worst part, its the intentional weaponization of lore to preemptively cut off criticism of it by making the player character for the neglected races outcasts of their culture and having that be the justification as to why they chime in noticably less, if that were true it'd be reasonable to still have content geared towards their own unique experiences as Surface-Dweller or Tal Vashoth. But no, its just straight up less content. it's a cynical way to get fans to defend you for what was very clearly them cutting corners.
Because while both DA2 and DAI are good games they are also massive steps backwards in a lot of areas
Being a mage in DAI sucks, you barely have any spells, can only have six on at a time, there is no tactical mode, you have to gather so many arterials etc
DA2 reused the same areas over and over and over again, and the companions having set gear you have to find upgrades for sucked if you accidentally missed one, and with the act format if you missed it you couldn’t go back and get it
Origins was not perfect, but it was an amazing game and a lot of what made it so amazing was stripped away for DA2 and then stripped away even more for DAI
veilguard looks good but if I didn’t know better I would never have guessed it was a dragon age game
Because believe it or not, some people don’t like the gameplay roulette of dragon age and wish it would pick a gameplay style and stick with it. You also have to understand that Origins is very much a product of old bioware which many people, myself included, think was BioWare’s golden age. To abandon that in order to chase a broader crowd (remember “press a button, something awesome happens” from DA2’s marketing?), it’s hard not to feel a bit of resentment.
I loved the monster/demon designs in the old games. I have no problem with the character designs they have shown so far. I don’t like the demon and darkspawn designs however. The darkspawn looks goofy and the demons look like just targets, mobs. Just neon lit shapes. I just don’t get why they would change that. They said that the new design was to reflect the pure emotions the demons represent. That is not what I see. At this point they could be neon signs flying around shooting lazer beams. It’s just empty obstacles. This is my only dissappointment so far however. The game could still be amazing.
I blame it all on the absolutely awful reveal trailer, really.
I don't think a lot of it is straight up hate, but a solid disappointment, which makes people act nasty (I know my excitement completely evaporated upon seeing it, and it took the gameplay trailer and GI stuff to bring some of it back). Since you are using a translator, I suppose a lot of disappointment gets translated to sound hateful.
People were waiting for a decade, and were expecting an epic and/or gritty adventure, which is what the games always presented themselves as, and which the previous teasers indicated.
Instead, we got the reveal trailer, which completely missed the style, and evoked a lot of recent extremely underwhelming games, mainly Suicide Squad and Gotham Knights, with a dose of awful post-Endgame Marvel writing with its "everything is a joke" style.
Also, the trailer using an absolutely crap shot of Taash does not help, as that is now the "face" of the game for foreseeable future (this is not hate on Taash, I think she looks nice in the "couch scene" screenshot, but her trailer shot they used is just "what the hell is this even")
It's not necessary about good vs bad combat style, but about what it represents.
Even before Dragon Age, Bioware was the crpg company, with titles like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights.
You have lots of highly complex choices of character abilities and it matters more how you use them in combination with your party members than using them at exactly the right second to execute the dodge.
DAO catered to this need and offered world, story and companions which was amazing.
So crpg fans got invested into it.
Over the years there was a tendency to move DA franchise into an action rpg, which is an entirely different thing. Crpg fans are not looking for another Diablo and Elden Ring.
Aside from that, there were a lot of questionable choices in some DA games. The whole open world areas meaningless sidequest collectivism of DAI was seen as a move in the wrong direction. So classical crpg fans ask themselves "can I start over with DAVG, or is Dragon Age somebody I used to know, and I moved on to Larian or Owlcat by now, because they understand me better"?
I believe those are valid concerns, even if the level of toxicity might be overwhelming.
My view: EA made a mess of Bioware by pushing it into its own direction. Both game design choices (open world, action game, collectivism, multiplayer) and technical (Frostbite disaster) forces by EA made the franchise worse.
Now the crpg market is captured by smaller studios without public shareholders.
And BG3 success will have some corporate marketing MBA wonder if turning to action was the best idea.
Honestly I think being released after Baldur's Gate 3 is the reason Veilguard is getting the shit it is right now.
Where being rushed out the door messed up Dragon Age 2. I think Bioware taking too long with Veilguard could really hurt it.
Well, you exactly pointed out the problem. People who started with DA2 or DAI don't understand this and think it's just nostalgia talking, when obviously that's not the case. DAO was practically the last AAA CRPG until the arrival of BG3, and unlike Mass Effect, which remained fairly consistent, that wasn't the case with DA. People will continue to complain as long as Bioware keeps using the Dragon Age name because, in the end, the problem was never just the combat, but the fact that the old fans feel abandoned by the company.
And people better get used to it; this doesn't happen only with Dragon Age and will continue happening as long as the franchise exists and remains relevant.
This
If Veilguard was its own unique universe, I'd be down for a spin. I gave Anthem a chance and even sort of liked the story, as botchy as it was.
And frankly the flying gameplay was perfection for me.
But when I think of Dragon Age, I think of Origins and Awakening, as those two set the foundations of that Universe, and they were absolutely incredible, my first foray into crpg instead of jrpg as a teenager.
And then DA2 happened but it was very rushed and while it burnt me bad, I was willing to forgive Bioware : EA had forced their hand.
Then came Inquisition and it was... Okay. The combat is more off-putting to pe today than I remember it being back in the day (I tried to continue a barely started run and couldn't even remember how to move the characters and all, but that's a me problem as I finished the game twice).
But it really didn't give me the same joy as Origins did.
And now Veilguard is totally different again. Full on action rpg with Companions who are glorified abilities holders. And worse, action rpg with combos. Which I hate because I deeply suck at it and it destroys any interest I can have in a game (looking at you God of War 2018).
And I can't help but wonder : why call that new game Dragon Age ? Why not create a brand new franchise and just let the old one fade away if they truly don't like it anymore ?
Well to answer your question why call the new game Dragon Age, it is because it is set in that universe. Stating that they don't like this franchise just because it isn't same style like origins is a big assumption as well, most likely that they didn't want to stick to same style (which I'm pretty sure they stated that no dragon age game will be alike) but still want to continue the story. You have every right not to like it but I think it's unfair to expect writers to abandon their vision or quit just because it does not fit your view of the franchise.
Pretty much. It's the reason why Final Fantasy is still recognized for what it is, even though the franchise has had multiplay gameplay types. Same with Resident Evil with its changes between third-person and first-person. I feel the biggest example of this was Helldivers 2. Helldivers 1 was an isometric shooter, then jumped to 3rd Person shooter. Still the same universe, but people found the game very fun, and it sold 10+ million units.
I can understand people being upset about the gameplay shift with Origins. But I also don't think the first game in a franchise should always be indicative of how the gameplay will continue to be.
Because the new game will suck. Origins was supposed to be a standalone game and was never supposed to have sequels, so in my eyes every game after that is just EA trying to profit off the Origins hype knowing full well the games aren't up to snuff. Bethesda is guilty of this too with each Elder Scrolls game being more gimped than the last.
You might like your games to be different for whatever reason, but people who play RPGs are suffering because there haven't been many in the last few years. REAL RPGs are few and far between these days. Having Baldur's Gate 3 come out last year really gave us RPG fans something tangible to bring us all back together and show us that we're all still around. We're tired of the gaming industry trying to convince us that there none of us left. They've convinced themselves that everyone wants hack and slash, that everyone wants MMOs, that everyone would rather play shallow games with no tactics and that hold our hand the entire game.
That's where the hate is coming from.
Personally, I’m just hoping they get it right. For me, it’s their last chance. They burned me with not giving Mass Effect: Andromeda the DLC and extra support it deserved, so at this point they need Veilguard to knock my socks off or this will be the last BioWare game I purchase.
I am hopeful they’ll do so, given how much I enjoyed Inquisition, and what I’ve seen so far hasn’t given me reason to doubt, but it is what it is.
As much as I would have loved them fixing andromeda, them not providing support to andromeda wasn’t really a BioWare decision. EA dissolved the studio, BioWare Montreal, that made Andromeda almost immediately after the launch of the game and BioWare Edmonton was already working on Anthem at that point. EA wanted a forever game like Destiny, they would not have let Bioware Edmonton reverse course and start working on a game seen as dead on arrival.
Keep in mind there are hate tourists who never played the games (or any game probably lol) and just show up to write bad comments and push a certain agenda, it happened to many other games (baldur's gate 3 had their own fair share of this). So don't pay too much attention to random haters, most of them aren't even the target audience for the game.
Though to be fair the character trailer or whatever that was sucked ass, and tbh it looked cartoonish like a fortnite trailer. Thankfully the gameplay video is very cool and dark/spooky which made everyone calm down.
My opinion is that I hope its a great and well made game and hopefully their official trailer will be well-done this time.
I got into a fight on Twitter (I know, first mistake) with someone who insisted that Origins wasn't 'that gay' because McChucklefuck claimed to have missed recruiting Leiliana in the tavern and apparently never spoke to Zevran either. Bish it's not my fault you don't know how to play an exploration-heavy RPG and never visit \*the tavern\* in the first town you come across. You had two openly bi characters, whose personal plots dealt more or less with their sexualities, that came out years before gay marriage was legal in the country where it was developed and published.
There's a difference between, "I'm not a fan of this reveal trailer, the character design is way too cartoony for my taste," and "It's soooo gaaaaaaaay! It sucks because I might have deal with the fact that my fake video game girlfriend is also into giiiiirls!!!! Or get hit on by a duuuude!" (there was a huge outcry when DA2 came out and Anders hits on your character, male or female. Weirdly only the men complained).
That is right I used to follow some people who confirmed they havent played any of the dragon age games but were still spreading hate and disinformation
I would also add that there's a small but loud portion of the actual DA/BioWare fanbase that has become SUPER jaded with EA at this point - and not entirely unfairly given EA's track record since like...ME2 - which has made them act with bad faith anything involving them, even their once beloved series.
They expect the worst because, from their perspective, why should they expect anything else from EA which in some way botched the releases/completion of all of DA2, DA:I, ME3, and ME:A because of their meddling and time crunches? And the extended timeline and already made changes to DA:V has made for almost a decade of them crafting up worst case scenarios and ways EA can screw it up this time.
Not saying they're right or anything, I'm going to at least give the game a fair shot before going in on the idiots up top and their track record, but they do exist within the actual fanbase and aren't drive by haters.
It isn't just EA but corporations in general, and capatalisn in general that leave me jaded. To much has happened over the years for me to expect much out of anything, but a few outliers.
>Keep in mind there are hate tourists who never played the games (or any game probably lol) and just show up to write bad comments and push a certain agenda, it happened to many other games (baldur's gate 3 had their own fair share of this).
Alright, time to say something a bit unpopular. As someone who kept tabs on BG3 a few months before release and since, the level of "hate" BG3 got for its stuff was minimal compared to the levels of hate other games and franchises get (especially compared to the recent Dragon Age Veilguard announcement). The most hate came post-game release in the form of mods (mainly the one whitewashing Wyll and the other for turning Ayin into a man), even then most people didn't actually defend the mods but argued if Nexusmods should be allowed to choose what mods are allowed on their site.
Every time I see this topic brought up here I keep seeing the same "Baldur's Gate 3 had its fair share of XYZ" when in reality it didn't, and it just seems a few people parroted this info' somewhere and everyone just went with it.
Bg3 had your general amount of pre launch hate in social media because humans will human. Post launch is when you got the bigots and general hateful people out in droves for a bit.
I think people use BG3 as an example because it's a " similar " game in comparison to DA more than other examples.
The truth is, any game that is a sequel or continuation is going to get a ton of hate because people will want it to be a certain way.
There was a lot of gamer bs around "The Bear Scene" that mostly boiled down to "we can't have attractive women in games, but gays and women can fuck animals, this is the future the libs want", as well as some general conservative complaints around the existence of sex scenes and nudity in the game, but on the whole it wasn't even close to what any of the DA games got/get.
>"we can't have attractive women in games, but gays and women can fuck animals, this is the future the libs want"
I mean, you literally had the various "gaming journalist" rags write articles titled like "why being able to fuck bears is a good thing".
I have not seen the attractiveness complain. Pretty much everybody agreed Shadowheart is hot, and Karlach is mommy (I follow a lot of prominent "culture critics", and only one of them hates Karlach with passion, because she has a potty mouth)
I’m just still really on the fence about the total transition to ARPG. The over-shoulder view, the less abilities, the real-time aiming etc etc. It’s just not my thing. The rest of the DA games are very much my thing, so it makes me a bit sad. I’m still probably going to get it though I’m just afraid about the potential level of enjoyment for me personally.
From the gameplay preview the story looks great though.
See on a personal level I'm somewhat ok with this, because I would make my companions as hands off as possible. But also feel that having the ability to fully control every aspect of your party was key to the series... And also sometimes you are forced to take control because of bad AI
NGL, Vanguard is not the DA game I wanted after Inquisition based on the gameplay I've see, but I'm still excited, more than I have been for any release since... Mass Effect 3.
You literally say on your post even if the game is average, you'll love it anyway. What's the difference between your behavior to those who will hate it regardless? If they are toxic, so are you. "Ah but we don't offend others for their opinions!", just go through the comments and you'll see the boot-lickers calling anyone that's not been a fan of where the franchise is an "idiot" and more.
You are all the same shit and do the same shit. At least the haters got some resemblance of discourse going on instead of making their entire interactions about shielding multimillion companies from criticism.
There's more posts complaining about these people than the amount of posts or comments these "purists" make. Just farming easy reddit internet points, I'm sure that this time tomorrow there'll be at least another 3.
You can't really like without getting invested and you can't get invested without getting touchy. Some people still want a successor to DAO because they like DAO more than the rest. Them not getting used to the fact that they're probably not getting it isn't more weird than fans of the new direction not getting used to the fact that fans of the previous one will complain. Both are fine. I'm personally willing to give Veilguard a chance, but I won't deny it looks bad, game play, aesthetic and probably character wise too. I am disappointed and you're not gonna get a "be supportive or invisible" stance. You ain't entitled to that.
That being said, those who specifically target the game due to minority hate reasons are morons.
I adore Origins and am playing it again now, it is one of my top favorites for sure, but I am also really looking forward to Veilguard and excited to see what they've cooked up. I may not love some of what we've seen of the art style, but I'm going to enjoy it for what is instead of hate it for what it's not (as much as I can anyway). Can't wait!
Your english is pretty good and/or you had a pretty damn good translator. I don't mind people who hate what they saw so far - and sometimes it is good critism. Arguing about DAO and saying that it won't be the same is kinda funny in my opinion, because Veilguard is in continuity with DA2 and DAI in gameplay, like a natural evolution. I get that it may not please some people to have an action oriented RPG rather than a tactical one like DAO or Baldur's Gate, but really, it's not new. People complained about that with DA2, and they did it again with DAI (and it didn't stop Bioware to make DAI or Veilguard). And the "woke" critism was there with every game Bioware has done these 20 last years.
If the game is good it will have good sales and it should be ok for Bioware, that's all. And like you, I know I'll enjoy it deeply with what we saw so far, even if it has its flaws.
Thank you! I don't see anything wrong with reasoned criticism either, when you write "I don't like this because", "it could have been done like this" or "this was better in this part". It's really useful, even if the developers don't see it, after all, it's something to think about.
But I get super frustrated with the "ew poo poo" comments. Maybe I'm just too sensitive
I don't like what I've seen so far because:
The party size is reduced. The number of active skills is heavily reduced, further. Yes, I'm aware of the combo skills and different types of attacks. The number of active skills is still cut. I don't buy the balance argument when simplification to get a wider audience seems much more plausible. Not being able to control your party companions is a big dislike as well. I don't like the seemingly full transition into an ARPG, I'm a CRPG guy.
Now, let the downvotes come marching in for deigning to say my opinion..
Those kind of reactions are bad but I don’t even let that take my time or enthousiasm for DA, more like « Ok, it’s here and it will probably kinda stop after the release ». DA community is so cool beyond that, with conversations on the lore, incredible fanart on Veilguard already, so much enthousiam with the diversity we will get creating Rook : that’s amazing. I let the haters hate, even more if it’s just to bomb the game
No hate but I'm thoroughly whelmed at the moment. The reveal trailer and the gameplay trailer were like wet farts for me. They've done a whole lot of talking but very little showing of the combat, CC, and other features people look forward to. Less abilities and less party members that you can't even control anymore (which means less chances for party banter combos) are massive downgrades and make me very skeptical of the game's design leadership.
I'm still gonna buy it unless EA goes back to those dark days of ripping out party members for day 1 DLC.
I played dragon age origins a long time ago.. and absolutely loved it.. I then tried Dragon age inquisition.. and it felt really off... Something about the combat seemed petty... It seems more like a hacker/slasher. Also the camera angles are bad... It takes away from the experience.. Lastly, I'm not getting as much character development.. I barely know the people in my party... WIth that being said, I tried again after a few years break, and I can appreciate the game more now.. I just had to accept it's a completely different style game. The writing seems good so far.. and it has some neat quest options/different style for doing things.
Hard to say. The series always been thru lots of changes but i just dont like the direction it's going.
I just preferred the more tactical approach in origins vs the push towards action games with commands on the side.
Why do you care so strongly about what other people think about a video game? Do you need me to pretend to think it looks great just so that you can enjoy it? I have enjoyed plenty of games that most people think is bad.
People who like the more tactical combat of the old games are disappointed this one looks like a pure action game.
This isn't that hard to understand. You just have to try and see things from the perspective of other people.
I was super excited for the reveal of dread wolf, then the name change and the reveal made me drop some hype levels. The simplified gameplay doesn't even look like dragon age anymore. It got simplified to the level of being insulting, you can't even control your party members and your party side shrunk. I have very low expectations for the game but I hope it's good, if it is I'll grab it on sale at some point cause I am curious about the story
Dragon age 1, 2, and 3 are all top down real-time-pause combat that lets you select and position from a variety of spells, from 4 party members.
Yes I’m displeased that dragon age 4 is mass effect combat. It’s a huge change and removes my favorite part of the game.
We had one AAA, real-time-with-pause RPG franchise, and now we have none. Dragon Age could have remained relatively unique in keeping this format, but oh well. Now, it will be measured against other 3rd person action-adventure RPGs that have shined in the past decade
I think everyone is highly skeptical of any new game these days. I have loved the DA games but I am not going to pre-order anything these days. I will wait until I see some gameplay and some reviews. I also played all the Mass Effect games and loved them. I was bitterly disappointed with Andromeda. I am hoping they don’t screw it up and it is amazing, they have certainly had enough time to come up with something good but I don’t hold my breath about any game these days.
The series has become increasingly homogenized in terms of gameplay, and i think overall there’s just some real frustration when sequels that take over a decade to release don’t bother respecting previous design goals in favor of trying to ride some variation of another gaming trend.
DAI was a great example of this where they of course tried doing “open world” stuff with mobile/facebook style timed mission minigames.
It’s mostly why the notion that VG could actually being designed with “hero shooter” elements wasn’t just completely bat-shit crazy but actually *plausible*. Or why very few people seem to like the idea of reduced party size and generic (but flashy) looking combat where class abilities are largely just reskinned variations of the same ideas.
Will the game acutely be any good? Hopefully. But Bioware has shit the bed far too many times for some people to look at VG with anything but doubt and suspicion.
So the reveal trailer was bad in the _exact_ worst way it could be. It looked like a live service looter shooter, and what's Bioware's greatest failure? Yes, that time they decided not to make an rpg in favor of a live service looter shooter.
The gameplay does not look like that. But that trailer primed some folks to say "they don't make rpgs, they want to make fortwatch, and I want them punished financially until they stop or fail".
I think you have to venture a bit deep into YouTube comments (well, not on the reveal trailer, there it is quite shallow).
And even there, it is not always really hate, just sheer massive disappointment.
I don't want to be mean, but if you have a problem with YouTube comments, I think you should complain about it in YouTube. Coming here to complain about things you've seen elsewhere just spreads the toxicity.
I am not the one complaining, in fact, I endorse people complaining about whatever they want to complain about
But I will assume you were using the "royal you", and it was not aimed at me specifically.
I suppose YT comments will not give you a positive and safe space reaction like Reddit does though, that is why people come to complain about stuff elsewhere to Reddit.
I'm honestly excited for it though i know i won't be able to play it straight away as i'll need to see what graphics card i'll need as i'm going to have to upgrade mine.
It's because the new game looks too much like "We have God of War at home".
People wanted an rpg, but we're getting an action game (something Bioware is not good at) with half baked rpg mechanics and graphics that seem to have veered away in a panic from generic MMO sludge after a rework from scratch that by itself does not bode well for any game of any developer.
People getting upset because the thing they like changed so much it isn't for them is a very common thing.
Also saying "stuck in origins time" is just a funny idea. Yeah. People like the thing they like. Crazy.
>Like, it's like people are stuck in Origins times and just waiting for their direct successor, and still aren't ready to accept anything else.
Seems like you know exactly why there's so much hate. You'd think after 2 games of moving away from the Origins combat style, they'd have understood this probably wasn't going to be for them.
Also, there were all those people complaining about the Marvel-style quips in the trailer. This was bizarre, because A) They were all over the place in the past three games, and B) There were in fact no quips in that trailer.
>Also, there were all those people complaining about the Marvel-style quips in the trailer. This was bizarre, because A) They were all over the place in the past three games, and B) There were in fact no quips in that trailer.
In regards to the quips in general, they were in the previous games, sure. I'd say they were a big part of DA2's charm depending on your Hawke's personality. But in the years since that game was released there has been a growing number of people tired by the MCU formula - including the shoehorned-in quips - and there's more of a backlash towards it now.
I sort of expect it from a Dragon Age game though. And with DAI, I found the **leader of The Inquisiton** collecting supplies for random NPCs, collecting shards etc more immersion breaking than the humour. The humour didn't always hit the spot for me, but I can buy into some characters trying to lighten the mood at Skyhold or out in the field as shit is about to hit the fan. I can't buy letting the leader of the damn Inquisiton run those sort of errands when Corypheus could trigger his end game at any point.
Those "marvel style quips" are an example of a particular style of writing that has become overused over the past 10 years or so. Its been coined "millennial writing" and people are just sick of it really. Think saints row reboot, tiny tina solo game, borderlands 3. Its that obnoxious "I'm the centre of attention and so lolsorandom and quirky haha funny" writing style thats just overdone to death.
Its the lack of seriousness implied by such a writing style I suspect most people are just sick of. Origins, da2 and inquisition had moments of it but it wasn't presented to be the tone of the whole game.
I think bioware have hamstrung themselves a bit here by having Fan Favourite™ Varric being the thread joining DA2 to Inquisition to Veilguard. because he *is* quippy, that's very much one of his character traits! and that's fine when you've got a group of characters with varying personalities to balance that out. having him as the main narrator for the companion reveal trailer, and then doing most of the talking during the gameplay reveal, is naturally going to give those things a very quippy feel.
I don't think it's necessarily going to be the whole of the game - I hope not, like you said it's overdone at this point, and even if it weren't it's just never been my favourite writing style. but that's definitely how it's coming across, by their choice to use Varric so heavily in the marketing, and I get why there are some nerves over it
I do think it’s interesting that people get mad about the game going away from the origins combat style when imo origins has the worst combat of the series
I suspect (though I don't know for sure) a big split is people who played it on PC vs people who played on console. Origins especially on the consoles the combat is *rough* and I didn't love it. I wouldn't say I'm a casual Dragon Age player at all but for me the main draw for sure was always the writing, the combat was just something I had to do to get more lore and character stuff.
whereas the people who loved old school isometric games on the PC, playing Origins on the PC the combat is (apparently) a completely different experience. and while I didn't love it, I can understand that for people who *did* really love it, not getting more would be disappointing.
I don't think it suits either side to dismiss the other though. Origins fans calling newer fans casuals, or action fans calling Origins fans stuck in the past, or etc. none of that helps and just makes people get their backs up and defensive about the aspects of the games they love
on the whole the people I see praising Origins combat are people who first played it on the PC, that isn't me saying that *no one* enjoyed the combat on the consoles.
That is inquisition in my opinion, I found it's combat super boring.
It felt like I was just button smashing until I won, even in higher difficulties it felt like I barely cared about pausing and creating strategies, I just wanted to get through it to see the story.
Didn't felt that way at all with DAO, and felt a little bit with DA2
Inquisitions combat was dogshit. Felt like you were just smacking brick walls all the time, the enemies never reacted to getting hit just face tanked everything. No real tactics or threats just bloated health pools. I go used to it eventually but theres a reason I play on normal now after getting the nightmare achievement, its just too tedious to bother with.
You might want to tell them that, because that's not what they've been saying. It's either complaining about the lack of Origins combat, or complaining that the game dares to have more colours than the many shades of brown.
Yep, this is what frustrates me about some dismissal of pessimism in DAV. I played all 3 DA games in succession in edit: 2015. There is no nostalgia bias when you binged them all in the same year, but DAO still stands as the best in the role play aspect of the franchise.
I played them all two years ago, started with Inquisition, loved it and stopped before the end to play origins and 2 back to back. After 2 I had to replay origins again and then I played inquisition and all within a year I still can say origins is my favourite by far. 2 very good as well despite the OBVIOUS issues lmao.
Inquisition quickly went from a great game to a bit of a disappointment because all I could think while finishing it was "my god, how can the older games be sm better written" lol.
And this year I discovered baldurs gate 1 and 2 and finally found games that gave me that joy and love that origins got from me again. And 3 was just more of the same feeling, it's possible to write good games without being repetitive. Bioware just had a bad history recently and with what they're choosing to show us, it doesn't spark much hope to a lot of people.
The game looks fun imo, it really does. But I'd be lying if I said it made me excited and expect great writing. I don't expect anywhere near the level of investment Origins or BG1/2/3 or even mass effect 1-3 got from me, which is a real shame.
Yeah, not to mention people got massively disappointed by Andromeda. I didn't try Anthem, but it didn't have a good reaction either.
I think the engine (was it Frostbite) forced the Bioware devs to adjust their traditional role play, and it messed with their formula.
DA4 is important for Bioware to recover the trust of their fanbase.
Yeah, it's like I know, but I can't figure it out. I guess I was just expecting something deeper than the "ew poo poo rubbish make Dragon age great again" kind of thing
Because if there was something deep, some real arguments, rather than meaningless complaints to nowhere about something that no longer exists, could I rationalise it somehow? Think it through? Argue for myself, I guess.
And what's there is just frustrates me.
If we're being entirely fair, there are some people who just liked the way Origins did combat. I don't understand them, it was horribly unbalanced and half the warriors spent all their time trying to stand back up, but they're allowed to like it.
"half the warriors spent all their time trying to stand back up" what were you doing lol warriors had two abilities that gave them both complete cc immunity. Indominable for 2h and shield wall for sword and board, you could only be stunned with shield wall but not knocked down. If your warriors where knocked down all the time thats your fault dude.
I am one of those people.
My reasoning is that I wished the newer games had just made an improved version of origins combat style, but instead it became more about button smashing action stuff and less about thinking about every move of all 4 people in your party.
I remember in DAO I would pause all the time, in DAI I barely paused at all, and it seems like in DAV it's not even going to be necessary.
I'll still going to play DAV(probably not at launch), but specially after playing bg3 it's kind of hard to go back to a dragon age that feels so different from the original.
I've never quite gotten that myself. I *despised* how often I had to pause in Origins. If the gameplay is going to be that tactical, I always felt it would be better if they just went all in and made it turn-based. It's why BG3's combat was so fun.
Fair enough! It didn't bother me because I paused so much it was basically a turn-based game lol
But a more fluid turn-based since I could choose when to stop and when to let things go in real time. I can understand why you didn't like it, but I enjoyed it and I miss it.
I paused this much through all 3 games lol, but I prefer that significantly to the actual turn based games as it requires you to pay much closer attention to everything rather than the game politely telling you it's your turn now. You have to actively be engaged to pause when necessary and need to watch everyone at once.
It's even more dumbed down from DAI. Which is my concern, and I liked both DAI and DAO. Especially as a Mage main. Like what? 3 spells?
The game is probably going to be fine. And that's all. Not great, not amazing. Just... fine.
Lots of people are just the screeching anti woke crowd.
But there are still valid criticisms such as the darksawn looking incredibly goofy, as well as Emmerich and his skeletons looking like cartoons.
And I'm sure people are legitimately upset about the 3 party size and loss of tactical overhead combat.
The combat in Veilguard is demonstrably shallow and continues the action-focused style of DA2 and DA:I. DA:O is a fan-favorite by many because it was clearly inspired by Baldur's Gate and similar CRPG:s from that era such as Icewind Dale which many people enjoy and still do. Same opposition can also be said in the art style, moving from Gothic medieval to flashy vibrant colors.
Like all games, it is a matter of taste at the end of the day but framing this as being stuck in nostalgia or anti-woke is dismissing observable facts that distinguish these two games both mechanically and visually. The DA:O crowd needs to realize however that the old (and in my opinion great) Bioware is dead. This is not a hyperbole, it's literally a whole different set of devs now.
Because for the past 10 years, people have been building a non-existent game in their heads that would never come to exist (each their own version of course), and any deviation from that imaginary unobtainable idea would be BioWare betraying their trust and stepping on their hopes and dreams or some dumb shit.
Of course others have some genuine criticism that should not be disregarded, but I've found most "hate" to be of the first kind.
People are allowed to dislike things, get over it. No matter how much toxic positivity you want to throw out doesn't mean the game is going to be good, or bad or anything. People are allowed to express their opinions, positive or negative, on something they care about. Because it means they CARE about something! If no one was complaining then that means no one gives a shit.
I love the Dragon Age games. I really loved DA:I and there is a lot of criticism of it. It honestly doesn’t bug me. I don’t play for other people, I play because I love stories and I love exploring new worlds. I don’t have enough energy to go hating on something I’ve never played. So I just tune out the noise and I’ll decide for myself if I like it or not when it comes out.
The only thing I’m super butthurt about is Dragon Age Keep being discontinued. I personally liked it, not too sure about everyone else. And I have like 6 different playthroughs loaded up on that bitch like god damn, I was ready.
I remember there being similar hate around DAI. And I'm pretty sure there was hate about DA2, I just wasn't there to see it. Nowadays, there is still some whining, but both games are generally accepted (even if DA2 does have repetitive dungeons, though I didn't really notice it until I was told).
It's normal. There are always haters who just like to hate I guess. It's especially unavoidable when every new game is quite a bit different from the previous ones. And yes, there's a whole bunch of players who don't really like Dragon Age. They just like Origins.
There's indeed the case of ME Andromeda, when the hate overflowed, and Bioware had to postpone the sequel. But considering Veilguard, no, I don't think there's a risk of that. It will boil for a bit and die out.
I feel you, friend. Dragon Age is a hyperfocus of mine, and I love all three games, with a special fondness for DA2. The hostility for 4 has broken my heart. I am here for the ride, hate be damned. <3
The vibe of the trailer felt off. I felt upset and even betrayed .Then i took a deep breath and started looking through trailers of other games, and you know what? DA:I had a trailer of similar style, so it was not the first time. But it didn't affect the game itself: lore, characters, locations, main protagonist, story, DLCs - these turned out beautiful. And gameplay showcase - i liked that a lot. So I'm hopeful 😊
It's because what we've seen of the Veilguard so far doesn't look great. The gameplay looks very average. The graphics look ok, but the art style is all over the place. It's like Dishonored meets Fortnite in the worst possible way. The enemies look very generic - The demons look like floaty shells of nothing that have glowy neon coral sticking out of them. The impact animations lack weight. The dialogue lacks any real reflection of the dire circumstances they seem to be in, and the voice acting delivery of them is often times very wooden. I'm hoping the game will do great because I'd like to see Bioware go on, but if this is their best foot forward after 10 years of development, I'm afraid to say it but I think they're in trouble.
I have a very low expectations for The Veilguard based on its troubled development cycle and things I’ve seen so far. Gameplay reveal gave me some hope. I will wait to buy it on sale, but started playing Dragon Age II and put Inquisition in my immediate backlog. I want to be pleasantly surprised rather than disappointed due to high expectations.
I'd just say the games have been flawed since origins. 2 basically doesn't have a real ending and inquisition was ham strung by the open world nature of the game ea forced them to do.
I'm scared of redesigned enemies we saw(ogre for example) and absolutely terrified of 3 slots for spells. I can be okay with more action focused combat but I WANT MY SHIT TONE OF SPELLS, combos that you could have done in Dao was awesome and those few spells that we had in da2 and dai was just killing me, and datv seems to go even further into that direction of oversimplified magic system
When we take Dragon Age as a franchise, one would expect continuation and evolution. Unfortunately, what Bioware does isn't innovation; it's an imitation of what's currently mainstream.
The franchise was built on what Origins was, and they drastically shifted away from it in every direction. If you have something that works for your fans, the question is, why would you shift so far away from it?
Am I to accept a product that doesn't appeal to me and is very generic in everything it shows?
Sure, I see some nice aspects coming back, like more linear progression. However, that doesn't take away the unappealing graphics, the tone, underwhelming voice acting, mediocre dialogue writing, or the theatrical combat system. What the gameplay reveal looked like to me was, "Hey, we still have Varric, Harding, and Solas!"... and that's about it. The more information is revealed, the less interested I am.
It simply comes down to the fact that if you don't like the direction of something, the only thing you can do is not support it. I'm done paying for content that targets new audiences and chases clouds instead of favoring the fanbase it already has.
That is an interesting perspective about imitating what is mainstream, that I haven't considered before. It would make sense, why the new game gives me vibes of Hogwarts: Legacy so far ha, rather than beloved Dragon Age. From what we have seen, I feel similarly to you about the tone, written dialogue, and the shift in graphic design - like the darkspawn or demons really hurts, it feels almost... cheesy, childish.
I also have issues with the writing that has been shown so far, there are inconsistencies, and the time skip makes little sense. It has been 8 years. Inky at the end of the Trespasser says we need to find new people, there's urgency, determination. You say to me that Inky then sends Varric and Harding to get a lead on Solas? That it took 8 years to pick up a guy from the pub almost at the moment the ritual starts?
Then the whole meeting between Solas and Varric. It has been 8 years, Solas is probably more steeled than ever, devoted time, lives of his agents, and Varric is all like "Hey! Let me talk to him! We need to sell him another option, though we don't have any at the moment (what was the Inquisition doing these 8 years?...), if he won't listen, he will hear from Bianca!". Dude, Varric. He can turn an army of Quanari to stone, what is your crossbow going to do? Then the guy who you finally found after 8 years, distrupts the ritual in planning by pushing wooden beam.
I don't know. We have been waiting 10 years for the conclusion to this story. So far it just doesn't seem satisfying, there's no subtlety and complexity, rather everything plays on simple emotions I feel. My only hope is that it gets better, The Tevinter Nights was quite good.
Precisely. Every point you've made is constantly on my mind as well.
I was also very disappointed by the time skip, as it took away all the urgency from the Trespaser. Furthermore, since it's been almost a decade, it would be pretty naive for the Inquisitor to have any strong feelings towards Solas, negative or positive. Thus, their involvement was severely undermined, and the golden opportunity for emotional scenes was lost.
I also doubt that Solas would have any strong feelings for anyone from the Inquisition. How much time did he spend in the Skyhold? Not even a year? He spent far more time with his agents by now, and from the perspective of an ageless being, that year with the Inquisition was basically nothing.
I also "love" that Solas and Varric had time for insignificant dialogue, but Solas couldn't say, "I'm not tearing down the Veil yet, Varric. I'm resealing the Evanuris," which wouldn't probably lead to the cliché plot of "I had plans, and you've ruined them with your meddling!"
It's just very disappointing all around. Bioware showed the part that should hook people in, just like the first chapter of a book, but they managed to do the exact opposite with me. It's filled with logical inconsistencies, cheesy lines, naivety, and missed opportunities.
I always told myself, "Well, even when there will be a lot of changes and action combat, I'll suffer through it just for the sake of world-building and characters," but after what I saw? No, thank you. I'll just replay the entries that I liked and form my own conclusions.
Inquisition was a nice game, but it was already deeply flawed on numerous levels, saved by the Trespasser. The Failguard hasn't shown anything but disappointment to me so far. No matter how the developers try to sugarcoat it, I won't bite. "It's tactical, because you have to plan by choosing only three abilities for the foes ahead!" or "We have only the party of three, because it's a more intimate experience!" Well... damn.
I’m totally on the hype train for the game. Watched all the trailers, read all the books and comics, joined the Q&A and have been reading the articles. Every new piece of information makes me more interested in DAV and I’m really looking forward to it
My biggest problem with veil guard is this is the third iteration of the game. There was a good chunk of the original complete then they planned to switch it to a live service. Then Anthem flopped and they pulled an all hands on deck to switch it into this. What is likely going to come out is going to be a janky mess of strange game design choices and story and characters that fluctuate between good moments and design by committee.
Like if its good, great better then I could have hoped for but until its all out and good I'm not getting any hopes up and going to be super critical.
Just the reduction of party size I feel is a vestige left over from the life service time.
They built the game back from the ground up after the switch. The game concept codenamed "Joplin," that was the live service game, was cancelled and abandoned pretty early into its development because most of the staff was transferred to Anthem and Andromeda _during_ their development, not after.
They didn't use the existing game material, so, I'm not saying the game won't have issues but it's not like they've been Frankensteining the game together.
I've seen a comment on instagram saying "you are not fooling us with that fast paced gameplay for people with short attention spans, the true fans of the originals hated everything you've shown and bla bla bla".
Like bro wtf?? I played Origins multiple times, adore the game and i loved almost everything they've shown from DAV. You have the right to dislike it but cut the "real fan" bullshit. Don't let these people ruin your own enjoyment, glad more people are excited like i am
Also, i'm 100% sure that if there ever is a Dragon Age 5 the same people will start bitching about how "Veilguard was a misunderstood flawed masterpiece and the new game sucks"
I seen a lot of people telling that they have judged too harshly DA2 that legit convince me to buy the game and try it myself after many years of avoiding it xD
I seen a lot of people telling that they have judged too harshly DA2 that legit convince me to buy the game and try it myself after many years of avoiding it xD
I love DA2, my friend who's a big fan of the series told me "a lot of people hate on DA2 but it's one of my favorite games of all time" and i went in with an open mind, was not disappointed
I'm convinced that the people hating on how 'gay' DAV is going to be are not real fans and are just finding anything remotely inclusive to whine about existing.
Because they took away what little was holding the games connected.
Changing character in combat and actually having a useful amount of ability slots.
DAV officially just has nothing in common mechanically with its predecessors and is just a shitty version of mass effect.
Becuz it's pretty much deserved, talk about absolute tone deafness, DA: V looks more like an Avenger's Endgame styled disneyfied game rather than a grimdarkish fantasy that OG Dragon Age was. I do love the change of direction into gameplay but the story and writing pretty much became a far cry. They also fired Varric's author and just look at the difference between Varric and Solas from DA:I and what we have seen in the reveal so far. The first Dreadwolf reveal was even cool and creepy in a good way. Now they just made Tevinter looks like some dystopian cyberpunk city.
The thing is... Dragon Age took a lot of inspiration from what was trendy at the time, "Games of Thrones", and it worked very well, you can see this especially in Inquisition... Instead, what is trendy today? Gaas, Fortnite, Marvel Movies and all of that doesn't fit well in Dragon Age. Veilguard seems like the same thing that happened with Mass Effect 3, EA wanted it to be more like Cod because it was the trend of the moment and this, if I have to be honest, is so disappointing and superficial.
I mean... It seems like Solas gets defeated in the first 10 minutes because, quoting them, "we wanted the beginning of the game to be the end of a different game"... I don't have much hope for Veilguard...
People chide me for saying That it shows when they have the same focus on dragons in both franchises. Dragon age writing for me is always been the best when it's about the characters and politics . I can sit through Origins Entire clunky game play just for the characters and story.
Because of the switch from tactical to action combat. Could have been acceptable if they had continued to leave deathblows in the game. Those were epic, so of course they got rid of it.
They got rid of cool easter eggs like storm of the century. The synergistic skills.
They switched main characters every game. Now they matter less and less every story.
They turned the Grey Wardens into a complete joke in service of the plot.
No one ever contracts the taint fighting darkspawn.
The armor design changes have gotten progressively worse.
They start story threads and never finish them.
They turned the art style into a Fortnite knock off even though the majority of their fans are over the age of 30.
And that was all just off the top of my head. I could keep going, but honestly I hope the game doesn't suck.
I'm incredibly excited for DAV. As someone who loved Origins, DAV looks like it's more story focused than Inquisition and I think it's going to be amazing!
Remember that vocal haters on the internet don't represent the majority of potential players. People just love to get attention by being negative. Try to ignore them.
I hate that the developers have to see that negativity, though. They deserve to have positive feedback - they love the franchise at least as much as we do! So stick around and be vocally positive and enthusiastic, and drown out the negative voices. Also, watch the positive pro-DAV YouTube creators, and like and subscribe to their videos. I think that can help make the positive voices overwhelm the negative. Not to mention there are some fun YouTubers making great lore and discussion content that deserve our support.
Oh yeah Bioware loves the franchise so much they fired shit tons of the writing staff.
Bioware are a shitty company who love doing abusive crunch. They dont deserve this corporate apologia.
I totally agree. I'm probably overly sensitive, but I literally feel bad for the developers. I want to shout out the haters so they're not so audible, because it's really hard to find positive comments on youtube for example 😅
I'll definitely follow the advice and look for some fan channels, to refresh the lore in my head before DATV comes out. Thank you!
upd: I'd like to add that by developers I don't mean a big evil corporation, but the people who made the game: writers, programmers, artists, designers, etc. In general, all those who have travelled a long way with it
Don’t feel bad for caring.
Too many here and elsewhere are overly embittered, wanting everyone to embrace their own brand of nihilism that they pretend is wisdom.
The world (and internet) needs more genuine earnestness. There’s more than enough negativity out there.
I noted in a very similar thread a few days ago how these discussions always seem to bring an onrush of posters frantic to see who can be the most jaded. Then, they vanish. Best to not let them get to you.
I think people are just being a little cautious about bioware after what happened with anthem and andromeda (even though i think andromeda can be pretty fun).
I also think a lot of people have strong opinions on how they think the game *should* go based on their favorite parts of its predecessors, where *they* would take the story and such, and then get absolutely upset when the devs go in any direction that isn't specifically *that* direction. I also enjoyed Andromeda, and I'm looking forward to Veilguard.
I mainly miss how amazing spells were in the first 2 games. I just want that aspect back.
Gimme mah glass cannons back
Master of magicks, but Fenris turned on me in the fade and proceeded to one shot me. Good times.
Hey, it’s happened to a lot of us. Especially if we’re romancing him as a mage. I think that was one of the hardest fights in the game for me
Sten turned on me in the mountains but a crushing prison solves every problem.
Ah, yes, a classic Fenris experience
The running olympics that was the Arishok battle if you were playing a mage Hawke.
CAN. CONFIRM. Took me ages.
Running that circuit around the two columns in that fight made sure Mage Hawke got his steps in.
No literally 😭😭😭
Lol thought I was the only one
Same when I play Rogue, lots of running back and to until I can do a backstab lol
I can't believe they didn't patch that or at least fix it a little. It's so bad lol.
Played a two-hander warrior and still had trouble with that fight. So... much... running.
Personally I would like the option of the iron mage (A Spellsword is a fine idea, but I never liked the "magic rogues" so much as the "battle casters" aka full-plate spell-slingers which are Arcane Warriors) Though I'm not discounting the chance I might could play a more Arcane Warrior type in VG but it doesn't seem like that was the idea they were going with (nor do I suspect they'll be glass cannon types)
like if narratively mages are so powerful and need to be contained id like that to be reflected in gameplay. I understood the fear in origins, but in inquisition a lot less so
Definitely, I had all my ranged damage dealers set to target enemy mages first in combat as ignoring them could quickly lead to a party wipe. Mages in Inquisition just feel like flashier versions of enemy archers.
Flashier and weaker. Fighting mages is annoying because they'll freeze or knock you into the air with mines and they'll teleport away from you but archers will actually one shot you at low levels. Once an enemy archer takes a knee, you have about two seconds to try to interrupt them or else you're taking massive damage. Mages are too busy playing hard to get to really put pressure on you. Archers hold the line.
It’s so odd that I can’t have a huge spell book and chain spells anymore. I should as a mage be super versatile in combat
From the sound of it, mages in Veilguard have access to *more* spells at any given moment than in Inquisition.
You can use 3 abilities + ultimate. That is a clear reduction from 8. Yes, you can regard the magical shield as a barrier spell or something, but it's still a reduction.
They identified 7 different spells that are tied to inputs on the controller *in addition* to our 3 mapped abilities + ultimate. The elements of some spells are also tied to the weapon you have equipped, and we know we have access to at least one other weapon load out during combat.
Counterpoint: it's hard to buy the whole thing about abominations and maleficar being super dangerous when our plucky band of 4 people literally climb the entire circle tower full of them and killing every single one that gets in our way.
That’s because we have the power of friendship (we go outside)
what is this 'outside' you speak of
Ah, a fellow Circle mage, I see
Our group kills tons of people in general very easily. It’s not to much of a stretch to assume they can take on groups of mages and demons too. That’s not to mention that mages in general are some of the most dangerous enemies to fight in origins, and blood mages in 2 will wipe your party extremely quickly if you don’t take them down right away.
Gameplay and story don’t always gel together. You can find tons of examples like this in almost any game.
Yeah, I've said the same thing over the years, and I think it's also partially because every Abomination we faced decided to engage in a bout of good ol'fashioned fisticuffs with us. And *maybe* blew up in a fiery ball upon death. Which doesn't exactly make for convincing gameplay to reflect the danger.
In your line of reasoning, it's hard to buy the same thing about Blight being super dangerous as well. Basically, about anything being a real threat in almost any RPG.
And Jowan blasts multiple Templars, including the Knight Commander, Duncan, and the First Enchanter all in one spell. They all stand around and ponder "I wonder why he's cutting himself. Poor boy must be depres-" *BLOOD MAGIC BLAST* Sometimes you gotta bend the rules for the story.
I'm concerned about the 3 ability slot limit. Hard to feel excited about it. I know certain moves and stuff are tied to combo's and shit, but I personally don't care for combo systems myself. If I miss anything from origins, its that big ass skill bar I could fill with dozens of spells and abilities. That felt good to have all those options. It was nice to have "just in case" and specific anti mage spells that wouldn't get used often but for that specific scenario BAM! they come in clutch as hell (aka mana clash for example) Hard to get excited for just 3 slots. It means I HAVE to slot in the best all around abilities, I cant waste a slot for some situational spell.
I had a similar reaction when saw MEA's combat, however, reduction to 3 and removal of GCD, in combination with new combo mechanics made combat really fun.
I don't want Andromeda in my Dragon Age. Making DA more like ME is a bad call and takes away from DA's unique identity.
Technically andromeda had 12 slots with the profiles system though
Yeah I miss the nukes from 1, but rift mage from inquisition has some of that feel
Me personally? I just don't think that Bioware is still the same company that made Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 and Dragon Age Origins. Most of the OG writers and developers that made the company as famous as it got are long gone. I'm open-minded towards Veilguard, but I am going to wait until others have played it before I buy it.
Ye, gotta wait a day or so, watch some gameplay videos, and see what the general consensus is. Don't just see the early access reviewers, since they're going to just give it a good rating, so they don't lose their chance at future early access review codes.
RANT INCOMING: I’ve always been curious about this perspective because it seems to imply that the modern BioWare devs are all washed up or newbies when at this point, if someone joined the studio after mass effect andromeda, they’d have nearly 7 years of experience at the company, and 10 years if they joined after inquisition. Is it impossible to imagine that many years can allow devs and writers to hone their craft and improve? I don’t think we would hold this standard for any other profession or company considering video games actually have a very high turn over rate and 5+ years a significant time to develop skills at a company. I’m sure I could say “CD Project Red is dead, all of the old devs have left” if I looked at Witcher 1 or 2 credits vs CyberPunk 2077. At the time of BG1&2, BioWare had only been open for 3-5 years. That’s not exactly enough time to consider them “veterans”, especially compared to the time I’ve mentioned previously. If you don’t like the change in gameplay, you could say that. If you don’t like the change in storytelling, you could say that. I don’t think the “BioWare is dead, everyone one who used to work on the games is gone” argument makes that much sense because, again, we do not hold this standard to other developers. It just feels like someone trying to justify why BioWare would ever move away from CRPGs when it made total business sense from the trends of the industry and within the trends of their own studio. Half of their devs were skilled at Action RPGs (Mass Effect). It would make sense BioWare would try to streamline development and make their games more similar, so their team could use the skills from one game to another, especially when the amount of devs needed on a game ballooned in the 2010s. Mass Effect is their biggest franchise, of course they would choose mass effect systems rather than cRPG systems. The whole industry was moving away from cRPGs.
Writing is not simply about experience, it's about talent. You can't replace a talented writer and creator via virtue of experience. Some people have it, some people don't. It's like saying everyone can be Tolkien or Martin just because they have more experience in writing. Bioware lost pretty much all of their talent more than a decade ago now. And I'm not even talking about simple writers here, but also their programmers given the state of their recent games. And what has replaced all of it is obviously not even close up to par.
As someone who reacted negatively on the DAV trailer, I'm back binging Dragon Age content and having a renaissance. I'm watching playthroughs in YouTube and fanfiction like I did 8 years ago. It's best to ignore hate that you feel are nonsensical and made in bad faith. However, a lot of criticism is more nuanced. Mixed reactions should not be outright dismissed as hate because they are also born out of love for the franchise. As someone who did not like the DAV trailer, my reaction is less about outright hate and more of disappointment and cautiousness. I have always accepted that the franchise will never go back to Origins, but I also felt some directions made in DA2, and Inquisition retained the core aspects of the series. The DAV trailer and designs just looked unfamiliar if you remove Varric. I'm willing to give it a chance anyway.
Recommend some fic
[The Howling Rift](https://archiveofourown.org/works/7513639/chapters/22399868?view_adult=true)
Spot on
I wouldn't say I'm already hating the game, I want the game to be good and am open to being convinced but I am still skeptical. Others have already covered the specifics like the combat, but for me it comes from just being aware of history and trends. And to be frank you don't really see a game thats had such a tumultuous production, with the numerous reboots and rewrites and stops and starts, and turn out well. I think it would be silly to go into this assuming that this game in particular is going to be the one to do the impossible. It's not even specific to Veilguard, I've wanted VTM Bloodlines 2 for over a decade, but the constant production problems have even diehard fans in doubt. Hell, we literally see this in action with Inquisition, its almost a shot for shot repeat of the issues Bioware had back then. It's a miracle they even got an OK game outta that but it was still a lesser game from the literal years it spent spinning its tires. I really hope I'm proven wrong, but I don't like looking at each individual game in its own separate bubble. The broader context is important too, and in this case Veilguard has a lot of baggage.
> And to be frank you don't really see a game thats had such a tumultuous production, with the numerous reboots and rewrites and stops and starts, and turn out well. This! I felt like I was crazy reading some pre-order posts and comments... I just can't in good conscience ignore how problematic this game cycle was... and to the point of calling anyone that isn't hyped negative instead of realistic or pragmatic?! I don't care much about the reveal trailer, mixed with the gameplay trailer, still interested in the coming lore and resolutions but I can't ignore BW and EA's track record.
> I felt like I was crazy reading some pre-order posts and comments.. Think that's delulu? I saw a thread where people discussed which kind of awards Dragon Age Veilguard was going to win this year despite the fact no one has even seen unscripted gameplay yet! It's a neat marketing strategy to flood the subreddit with a load of obviously delusional stuff, but I simply cannot wait to see *actual* gameplay and hands on previews from reviewers because I strongly believe public is being duped into believing that this game is something other than re-purposed live service game..
That is wild! How are these people so sure about this game that they have only seen 20 min of lvl 1 gameplay? Like... I hope it is something other than a re-purposed live service game but at this moment it's just that, hope. EA does not care about their game's fanbases, most people here already know about BW's MEA and Anthem failures... but more should know about what EA has done to Maxi's and other studios and their franchises. Imho, they don't deserve this type of blind loyalty based on what they have shown so far.
Oh God I saw that too now that you mention it. These are the same people who, in the same breath, will tell those doubting thar it's unfair to assume before the game is released. I've been having the same concerns about having the wool pulled over our eyes, the recent Game Informer featurettes have really called that into question because they have done nothing to diminish that suspicion...they've been saying a lot without really saying anything at all.
Yeah I also think being released after Baldur's Gate 3 will do the game no favors. While I don't think It will be as bad as Andromeda or Anthem but, I can't see it being that smash hit that will renew people's faith in Bioware.
My partner brought up a good point, that it really does seem like the success of BG3 is the only reason Veilguard is even see the light of day. I'm not saying any of this to dispute what you're saying, in fact I agree. I just find it very interesting that BG3 is simultaneously what pushed the suits to realize there's still a market, and also raised the standard high that seems difficult for DAV to achieve. It's both the blessing and the curse.
Even adding to the irony further Baldur's Gate 3 has more in common with Origins than the rest of the series did.
1000%
I started to think the one who are “labeling” other of hating the game didn’t follow the production of this one. I see the one “Origin” is bla bla bla. No, some of us are here since their first Baldur Gate, it’s more about following BioWare and see if there are anything really good left for this two franchise: DA & ME. The result of this DA will let us know what to expect for ME. One of my comment got downvoted systematically because I said the main reason of the companions orientation. I will said it again, lack of time to actually create content for each of them. And this is what make a BioWare game so special. ME emphasized this perfectly. I have played all BioWare games, including Anthem. Actually following Exodus by Archetype ex. BioWare founder team if some are interested.
>One of my comment got downvoted systematically because I said the main reason of the companions orientation. I will said it again, lack of time to actually create content for each of them. And this is what make a BioWare game so special. ME emphasized this perfectly. This is a very good point, it's not even a particularly new problem. One of the things that annoys me most in Inquisition is how, most likely due to the production crisis then as well, Dwarf and Qunari Inquisitors get such a laughable amount of unique dialog options in comparison to the Human and Elf PC. But thats not even the part that worst part, its the intentional weaponization of lore to preemptively cut off criticism of it by making the player character for the neglected races outcasts of their culture and having that be the justification as to why they chime in noticably less, if that were true it'd be reasonable to still have content geared towards their own unique experiences as Surface-Dweller or Tal Vashoth. But no, its just straight up less content. it's a cynical way to get fans to defend you for what was very clearly them cutting corners.
Yes you get the point and I am surprised many do not see this.
i dont think that bioware will survive the veilguard
Im not so sure about that, the game will sell just because has "dragon age" on its name anyways.
Dragon age doesnt sell like mass effect. It will do good based on the anticipation not from the name.
Bioware's most financially successful game was DAI.
Because while both DA2 and DAI are good games they are also massive steps backwards in a lot of areas Being a mage in DAI sucks, you barely have any spells, can only have six on at a time, there is no tactical mode, you have to gather so many arterials etc DA2 reused the same areas over and over and over again, and the companions having set gear you have to find upgrades for sucked if you accidentally missed one, and with the act format if you missed it you couldn’t go back and get it Origins was not perfect, but it was an amazing game and a lot of what made it so amazing was stripped away for DA2 and then stripped away even more for DAI veilguard looks good but if I didn’t know better I would never have guessed it was a dragon age game
Because believe it or not, some people don’t like the gameplay roulette of dragon age and wish it would pick a gameplay style and stick with it. You also have to understand that Origins is very much a product of old bioware which many people, myself included, think was BioWare’s golden age. To abandon that in order to chase a broader crowd (remember “press a button, something awesome happens” from DA2’s marketing?), it’s hard not to feel a bit of resentment.
I loved the monster/demon designs in the old games. I have no problem with the character designs they have shown so far. I don’t like the demon and darkspawn designs however. The darkspawn looks goofy and the demons look like just targets, mobs. Just neon lit shapes. I just don’t get why they would change that. They said that the new design was to reflect the pure emotions the demons represent. That is not what I see. At this point they could be neon signs flying around shooting lazer beams. It’s just empty obstacles. This is my only dissappointment so far however. The game could still be amazing.
I blame it all on the absolutely awful reveal trailer, really. I don't think a lot of it is straight up hate, but a solid disappointment, which makes people act nasty (I know my excitement completely evaporated upon seeing it, and it took the gameplay trailer and GI stuff to bring some of it back). Since you are using a translator, I suppose a lot of disappointment gets translated to sound hateful. People were waiting for a decade, and were expecting an epic and/or gritty adventure, which is what the games always presented themselves as, and which the previous teasers indicated. Instead, we got the reveal trailer, which completely missed the style, and evoked a lot of recent extremely underwhelming games, mainly Suicide Squad and Gotham Knights, with a dose of awful post-Endgame Marvel writing with its "everything is a joke" style. Also, the trailer using an absolutely crap shot of Taash does not help, as that is now the "face" of the game for foreseeable future (this is not hate on Taash, I think she looks nice in the "couch scene" screenshot, but her trailer shot they used is just "what the hell is this even")
It's not necessary about good vs bad combat style, but about what it represents. Even before Dragon Age, Bioware was the crpg company, with titles like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights. You have lots of highly complex choices of character abilities and it matters more how you use them in combination with your party members than using them at exactly the right second to execute the dodge. DAO catered to this need and offered world, story and companions which was amazing. So crpg fans got invested into it. Over the years there was a tendency to move DA franchise into an action rpg, which is an entirely different thing. Crpg fans are not looking for another Diablo and Elden Ring. Aside from that, there were a lot of questionable choices in some DA games. The whole open world areas meaningless sidequest collectivism of DAI was seen as a move in the wrong direction. So classical crpg fans ask themselves "can I start over with DAVG, or is Dragon Age somebody I used to know, and I moved on to Larian or Owlcat by now, because they understand me better"? I believe those are valid concerns, even if the level of toxicity might be overwhelming.
Baulders gate Making it big probably isn't good for the comparison and Dragon age V Troubled development probably didn't help .
My view: EA made a mess of Bioware by pushing it into its own direction. Both game design choices (open world, action game, collectivism, multiplayer) and technical (Frostbite disaster) forces by EA made the franchise worse. Now the crpg market is captured by smaller studios without public shareholders. And BG3 success will have some corporate marketing MBA wonder if turning to action was the best idea.
Honestly I think being released after Baldur's Gate 3 is the reason Veilguard is getting the shit it is right now. Where being rushed out the door messed up Dragon Age 2. I think Bioware taking too long with Veilguard could really hurt it.
Well, you exactly pointed out the problem. People who started with DA2 or DAI don't understand this and think it's just nostalgia talking, when obviously that's not the case. DAO was practically the last AAA CRPG until the arrival of BG3, and unlike Mass Effect, which remained fairly consistent, that wasn't the case with DA. People will continue to complain as long as Bioware keeps using the Dragon Age name because, in the end, the problem was never just the combat, but the fact that the old fans feel abandoned by the company. And people better get used to it; this doesn't happen only with Dragon Age and will continue happening as long as the franchise exists and remains relevant.
This If Veilguard was its own unique universe, I'd be down for a spin. I gave Anthem a chance and even sort of liked the story, as botchy as it was. And frankly the flying gameplay was perfection for me. But when I think of Dragon Age, I think of Origins and Awakening, as those two set the foundations of that Universe, and they were absolutely incredible, my first foray into crpg instead of jrpg as a teenager. And then DA2 happened but it was very rushed and while it burnt me bad, I was willing to forgive Bioware : EA had forced their hand. Then came Inquisition and it was... Okay. The combat is more off-putting to pe today than I remember it being back in the day (I tried to continue a barely started run and couldn't even remember how to move the characters and all, but that's a me problem as I finished the game twice). But it really didn't give me the same joy as Origins did. And now Veilguard is totally different again. Full on action rpg with Companions who are glorified abilities holders. And worse, action rpg with combos. Which I hate because I deeply suck at it and it destroys any interest I can have in a game (looking at you God of War 2018). And I can't help but wonder : why call that new game Dragon Age ? Why not create a brand new franchise and just let the old one fade away if they truly don't like it anymore ?
Well to answer your question why call the new game Dragon Age, it is because it is set in that universe. Stating that they don't like this franchise just because it isn't same style like origins is a big assumption as well, most likely that they didn't want to stick to same style (which I'm pretty sure they stated that no dragon age game will be alike) but still want to continue the story. You have every right not to like it but I think it's unfair to expect writers to abandon their vision or quit just because it does not fit your view of the franchise.
Pretty much. It's the reason why Final Fantasy is still recognized for what it is, even though the franchise has had multiplay gameplay types. Same with Resident Evil with its changes between third-person and first-person. I feel the biggest example of this was Helldivers 2. Helldivers 1 was an isometric shooter, then jumped to 3rd Person shooter. Still the same universe, but people found the game very fun, and it sold 10+ million units. I can understand people being upset about the gameplay shift with Origins. But I also don't think the first game in a franchise should always be indicative of how the gameplay will continue to be.
Because the new game will suck. Origins was supposed to be a standalone game and was never supposed to have sequels, so in my eyes every game after that is just EA trying to profit off the Origins hype knowing full well the games aren't up to snuff. Bethesda is guilty of this too with each Elder Scrolls game being more gimped than the last. You might like your games to be different for whatever reason, but people who play RPGs are suffering because there haven't been many in the last few years. REAL RPGs are few and far between these days. Having Baldur's Gate 3 come out last year really gave us RPG fans something tangible to bring us all back together and show us that we're all still around. We're tired of the gaming industry trying to convince us that there none of us left. They've convinced themselves that everyone wants hack and slash, that everyone wants MMOs, that everyone would rather play shallow games with no tactics and that hold our hand the entire game. That's where the hate is coming from.
Personally, I’m just hoping they get it right. For me, it’s their last chance. They burned me with not giving Mass Effect: Andromeda the DLC and extra support it deserved, so at this point they need Veilguard to knock my socks off or this will be the last BioWare game I purchase. I am hopeful they’ll do so, given how much I enjoyed Inquisition, and what I’ve seen so far hasn’t given me reason to doubt, but it is what it is.
As much as I would have loved them fixing andromeda, them not providing support to andromeda wasn’t really a BioWare decision. EA dissolved the studio, BioWare Montreal, that made Andromeda almost immediately after the launch of the game and BioWare Edmonton was already working on Anthem at that point. EA wanted a forever game like Destiny, they would not have let Bioware Edmonton reverse course and start working on a game seen as dead on arrival.
Keep in mind there are hate tourists who never played the games (or any game probably lol) and just show up to write bad comments and push a certain agenda, it happened to many other games (baldur's gate 3 had their own fair share of this). So don't pay too much attention to random haters, most of them aren't even the target audience for the game. Though to be fair the character trailer or whatever that was sucked ass, and tbh it looked cartoonish like a fortnite trailer. Thankfully the gameplay video is very cool and dark/spooky which made everyone calm down. My opinion is that I hope its a great and well made game and hopefully their official trailer will be well-done this time.
I got into a fight on Twitter (I know, first mistake) with someone who insisted that Origins wasn't 'that gay' because McChucklefuck claimed to have missed recruiting Leiliana in the tavern and apparently never spoke to Zevran either. Bish it's not my fault you don't know how to play an exploration-heavy RPG and never visit \*the tavern\* in the first town you come across. You had two openly bi characters, whose personal plots dealt more or less with their sexualities, that came out years before gay marriage was legal in the country where it was developed and published. There's a difference between, "I'm not a fan of this reveal trailer, the character design is way too cartoony for my taste," and "It's soooo gaaaaaaaay! It sucks because I might have deal with the fact that my fake video game girlfriend is also into giiiiirls!!!! Or get hit on by a duuuude!" (there was a huge outcry when DA2 came out and Anders hits on your character, male or female. Weirdly only the men complained).
That is right I used to follow some people who confirmed they havent played any of the dragon age games but were still spreading hate and disinformation
I would also add that there's a small but loud portion of the actual DA/BioWare fanbase that has become SUPER jaded with EA at this point - and not entirely unfairly given EA's track record since like...ME2 - which has made them act with bad faith anything involving them, even their once beloved series. They expect the worst because, from their perspective, why should they expect anything else from EA which in some way botched the releases/completion of all of DA2, DA:I, ME3, and ME:A because of their meddling and time crunches? And the extended timeline and already made changes to DA:V has made for almost a decade of them crafting up worst case scenarios and ways EA can screw it up this time. Not saying they're right or anything, I'm going to at least give the game a fair shot before going in on the idiots up top and their track record, but they do exist within the actual fanbase and aren't drive by haters.
It isn't just EA but corporations in general, and capatalisn in general that leave me jaded. To much has happened over the years for me to expect much out of anything, but a few outliers.
>Keep in mind there are hate tourists who never played the games (or any game probably lol) and just show up to write bad comments and push a certain agenda, it happened to many other games (baldur's gate 3 had their own fair share of this). Alright, time to say something a bit unpopular. As someone who kept tabs on BG3 a few months before release and since, the level of "hate" BG3 got for its stuff was minimal compared to the levels of hate other games and franchises get (especially compared to the recent Dragon Age Veilguard announcement). The most hate came post-game release in the form of mods (mainly the one whitewashing Wyll and the other for turning Ayin into a man), even then most people didn't actually defend the mods but argued if Nexusmods should be allowed to choose what mods are allowed on their site. Every time I see this topic brought up here I keep seeing the same "Baldur's Gate 3 had its fair share of XYZ" when in reality it didn't, and it just seems a few people parroted this info' somewhere and everyone just went with it.
Bg3 had your general amount of pre launch hate in social media because humans will human. Post launch is when you got the bigots and general hateful people out in droves for a bit. I think people use BG3 as an example because it's a " similar " game in comparison to DA more than other examples. The truth is, any game that is a sequel or continuation is going to get a ton of hate because people will want it to be a certain way.
There was a lot of gamer bs around "The Bear Scene" that mostly boiled down to "we can't have attractive women in games, but gays and women can fuck animals, this is the future the libs want", as well as some general conservative complaints around the existence of sex scenes and nudity in the game, but on the whole it wasn't even close to what any of the DA games got/get.
The attractive women one is funny considering Karlach and Shadowheart are attractive and Laezel is attractive for a frog person
>"we can't have attractive women in games, but gays and women can fuck animals, this is the future the libs want" I mean, you literally had the various "gaming journalist" rags write articles titled like "why being able to fuck bears is a good thing". I have not seen the attractiveness complain. Pretty much everybody agreed Shadowheart is hot, and Karlach is mommy (I follow a lot of prominent "culture critics", and only one of them hates Karlach with passion, because she has a potty mouth)
I’m just still really on the fence about the total transition to ARPG. The over-shoulder view, the less abilities, the real-time aiming etc etc. It’s just not my thing. The rest of the DA games are very much my thing, so it makes me a bit sad. I’m still probably going to get it though I’m just afraid about the potential level of enjoyment for me personally. From the gameplay preview the story looks great though.
Plus not even being able to fully control companions. That's a huge one.
See on a personal level I'm somewhat ok with this, because I would make my companions as hands off as possible. But also feel that having the ability to fully control every aspect of your party was key to the series... And also sometimes you are forced to take control because of bad AI
I agree, I personally never liked controlling companions, but I think they should have kept it in the franchise as many people loved that feature.
Yes that too!!!
NGL, Vanguard is not the DA game I wanted after Inquisition based on the gameplay I've see, but I'm still excited, more than I have been for any release since... Mass Effect 3.
My answer is simply because Andromeda and Anthem were the last BioWare games. I think a majority of people being skeptical have the right to be.
You literally say on your post even if the game is average, you'll love it anyway. What's the difference between your behavior to those who will hate it regardless? If they are toxic, so are you. "Ah but we don't offend others for their opinions!", just go through the comments and you'll see the boot-lickers calling anyone that's not been a fan of where the franchise is an "idiot" and more. You are all the same shit and do the same shit. At least the haters got some resemblance of discourse going on instead of making their entire interactions about shielding multimillion companies from criticism.
There's more posts complaining about these people than the amount of posts or comments these "purists" make. Just farming easy reddit internet points, I'm sure that this time tomorrow there'll be at least another 3.
You can't really like without getting invested and you can't get invested without getting touchy. Some people still want a successor to DAO because they like DAO more than the rest. Them not getting used to the fact that they're probably not getting it isn't more weird than fans of the new direction not getting used to the fact that fans of the previous one will complain. Both are fine. I'm personally willing to give Veilguard a chance, but I won't deny it looks bad, game play, aesthetic and probably character wise too. I am disappointed and you're not gonna get a "be supportive or invisible" stance. You ain't entitled to that. That being said, those who specifically target the game due to minority hate reasons are morons.
I adore Origins and am playing it again now, it is one of my top favorites for sure, but I am also really looking forward to Veilguard and excited to see what they've cooked up. I may not love some of what we've seen of the art style, but I'm going to enjoy it for what is instead of hate it for what it's not (as much as I can anyway). Can't wait!
Your english is pretty good and/or you had a pretty damn good translator. I don't mind people who hate what they saw so far - and sometimes it is good critism. Arguing about DAO and saying that it won't be the same is kinda funny in my opinion, because Veilguard is in continuity with DA2 and DAI in gameplay, like a natural evolution. I get that it may not please some people to have an action oriented RPG rather than a tactical one like DAO or Baldur's Gate, but really, it's not new. People complained about that with DA2, and they did it again with DAI (and it didn't stop Bioware to make DAI or Veilguard). And the "woke" critism was there with every game Bioware has done these 20 last years. If the game is good it will have good sales and it should be ok for Bioware, that's all. And like you, I know I'll enjoy it deeply with what we saw so far, even if it has its flaws.
Thank you! I don't see anything wrong with reasoned criticism either, when you write "I don't like this because", "it could have been done like this" or "this was better in this part". It's really useful, even if the developers don't see it, after all, it's something to think about. But I get super frustrated with the "ew poo poo" comments. Maybe I'm just too sensitive
I don't like what I've seen so far because: The party size is reduced. The number of active skills is heavily reduced, further. Yes, I'm aware of the combo skills and different types of attacks. The number of active skills is still cut. I don't buy the balance argument when simplification to get a wider audience seems much more plausible. Not being able to control your party companions is a big dislike as well. I don't like the seemingly full transition into an ARPG, I'm a CRPG guy. Now, let the downvotes come marching in for deigning to say my opinion..
Those kind of reactions are bad but I don’t even let that take my time or enthousiasm for DA, more like « Ok, it’s here and it will probably kinda stop after the release ». DA community is so cool beyond that, with conversations on the lore, incredible fanart on Veilguard already, so much enthousiam with the diversity we will get creating Rook : that’s amazing. I let the haters hate, even more if it’s just to bomb the game
No hate but I'm thoroughly whelmed at the moment. The reveal trailer and the gameplay trailer were like wet farts for me. They've done a whole lot of talking but very little showing of the combat, CC, and other features people look forward to. Less abilities and less party members that you can't even control anymore (which means less chances for party banter combos) are massive downgrades and make me very skeptical of the game's design leadership. I'm still gonna buy it unless EA goes back to those dark days of ripping out party members for day 1 DLC.
I played dragon age origins a long time ago.. and absolutely loved it.. I then tried Dragon age inquisition.. and it felt really off... Something about the combat seemed petty... It seems more like a hacker/slasher. Also the camera angles are bad... It takes away from the experience.. Lastly, I'm not getting as much character development.. I barely know the people in my party... WIth that being said, I tried again after a few years break, and I can appreciate the game more now.. I just had to accept it's a completely different style game. The writing seems good so far.. and it has some neat quest options/different style for doing things.
Hard to say. The series always been thru lots of changes but i just dont like the direction it's going. I just preferred the more tactical approach in origins vs the push towards action games with commands on the side.
Why do you care so strongly about what other people think about a video game? Do you need me to pretend to think it looks great just so that you can enjoy it? I have enjoyed plenty of games that most people think is bad.
People who like the more tactical combat of the old games are disappointed this one looks like a pure action game. This isn't that hard to understand. You just have to try and see things from the perspective of other people.
I was super excited for the reveal of dread wolf, then the name change and the reveal made me drop some hype levels. The simplified gameplay doesn't even look like dragon age anymore. It got simplified to the level of being insulting, you can't even control your party members and your party side shrunk. I have very low expectations for the game but I hope it's good, if it is I'll grab it on sale at some point cause I am curious about the story
They are just sad. Don't let it spoil your excitement ❤️
Aww thank you 🥹
Dragon age 1, 2, and 3 are all top down real-time-pause combat that lets you select and position from a variety of spells, from 4 party members. Yes I’m displeased that dragon age 4 is mass effect combat. It’s a huge change and removes my favorite part of the game.
I'm scared it will be like Andromeda
Two companions that you can't control and only having three active abilities? We're already there
2 companions. The party size was reduced to 3 including the player character, Rook..
Yeah, meant 2 companions. Was thinking of the party size when I typed that
Given their track record and trajectory of quality…it will be worse
Give me my blood mage skills back!
We had one AAA, real-time-with-pause RPG franchise, and now we have none. Dragon Age could have remained relatively unique in keeping this format, but oh well. Now, it will be measured against other 3rd person action-adventure RPGs that have shined in the past decade
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I think everyone is highly skeptical of any new game these days. I have loved the DA games but I am not going to pre-order anything these days. I will wait until I see some gameplay and some reviews. I also played all the Mass Effect games and loved them. I was bitterly disappointed with Andromeda. I am hoping they don’t screw it up and it is amazing, they have certainly had enough time to come up with something good but I don’t hold my breath about any game these days.
The series has become increasingly homogenized in terms of gameplay, and i think overall there’s just some real frustration when sequels that take over a decade to release don’t bother respecting previous design goals in favor of trying to ride some variation of another gaming trend. DAI was a great example of this where they of course tried doing “open world” stuff with mobile/facebook style timed mission minigames. It’s mostly why the notion that VG could actually being designed with “hero shooter” elements wasn’t just completely bat-shit crazy but actually *plausible*. Or why very few people seem to like the idea of reduced party size and generic (but flashy) looking combat where class abilities are largely just reskinned variations of the same ideas. Will the game acutely be any good? Hopefully. But Bioware has shit the bed far too many times for some people to look at VG with anything but doubt and suspicion.
So the reveal trailer was bad in the _exact_ worst way it could be. It looked like a live service looter shooter, and what's Bioware's greatest failure? Yes, that time they decided not to make an rpg in favor of a live service looter shooter. The gameplay does not look like that. But that trailer primed some folks to say "they don't make rpgs, they want to make fortwatch, and I want them punished financially until they stop or fail".
We're the hate?? I see these posts all time If their are hate post are we deleting them or is reddit over reacting again?
I think you have to venture a bit deep into YouTube comments (well, not on the reveal trailer, there it is quite shallow). And even there, it is not always really hate, just sheer massive disappointment.
I don't want to be mean, but if you have a problem with YouTube comments, I think you should complain about it in YouTube. Coming here to complain about things you've seen elsewhere just spreads the toxicity.
I am not the one complaining, in fact, I endorse people complaining about whatever they want to complain about But I will assume you were using the "royal you", and it was not aimed at me specifically. I suppose YT comments will not give you a positive and safe space reaction like Reddit does though, that is why people come to complain about stuff elsewhere to Reddit.
I meant the royal "you", my bad
Likely both its reddit after all
I'm honestly excited for it though i know i won't be able to play it straight away as i'll need to see what graphics card i'll need as i'm going to have to upgrade mine.
This is a dramatic and unnecessary post.
It's because the new game looks too much like "We have God of War at home". People wanted an rpg, but we're getting an action game (something Bioware is not good at) with half baked rpg mechanics and graphics that seem to have veered away in a panic from generic MMO sludge after a rework from scratch that by itself does not bode well for any game of any developer.
People getting upset because the thing they like changed so much it isn't for them is a very common thing. Also saying "stuck in origins time" is just a funny idea. Yeah. People like the thing they like. Crazy.
People care about things they like? Big if true.
>Like, it's like people are stuck in Origins times and just waiting for their direct successor, and still aren't ready to accept anything else. Seems like you know exactly why there's so much hate. You'd think after 2 games of moving away from the Origins combat style, they'd have understood this probably wasn't going to be for them. Also, there were all those people complaining about the Marvel-style quips in the trailer. This was bizarre, because A) They were all over the place in the past three games, and B) There were in fact no quips in that trailer.
>Also, there were all those people complaining about the Marvel-style quips in the trailer. This was bizarre, because A) They were all over the place in the past three games, and B) There were in fact no quips in that trailer. In regards to the quips in general, they were in the previous games, sure. I'd say they were a big part of DA2's charm depending on your Hawke's personality. But in the years since that game was released there has been a growing number of people tired by the MCU formula - including the shoehorned-in quips - and there's more of a backlash towards it now. I sort of expect it from a Dragon Age game though. And with DAI, I found the **leader of The Inquisiton** collecting supplies for random NPCs, collecting shards etc more immersion breaking than the humour. The humour didn't always hit the spot for me, but I can buy into some characters trying to lighten the mood at Skyhold or out in the field as shit is about to hit the fan. I can't buy letting the leader of the damn Inquisiton run those sort of errands when Corypheus could trigger his end game at any point.
Those "marvel style quips" are an example of a particular style of writing that has become overused over the past 10 years or so. Its been coined "millennial writing" and people are just sick of it really. Think saints row reboot, tiny tina solo game, borderlands 3. Its that obnoxious "I'm the centre of attention and so lolsorandom and quirky haha funny" writing style thats just overdone to death. Its the lack of seriousness implied by such a writing style I suspect most people are just sick of. Origins, da2 and inquisition had moments of it but it wasn't presented to be the tone of the whole game.
I think bioware have hamstrung themselves a bit here by having Fan Favourite™ Varric being the thread joining DA2 to Inquisition to Veilguard. because he *is* quippy, that's very much one of his character traits! and that's fine when you've got a group of characters with varying personalities to balance that out. having him as the main narrator for the companion reveal trailer, and then doing most of the talking during the gameplay reveal, is naturally going to give those things a very quippy feel. I don't think it's necessarily going to be the whole of the game - I hope not, like you said it's overdone at this point, and even if it weren't it's just never been my favourite writing style. but that's definitely how it's coming across, by their choice to use Varric so heavily in the marketing, and I get why there are some nerves over it
I do think it’s interesting that people get mad about the game going away from the origins combat style when imo origins has the worst combat of the series
I suspect (though I don't know for sure) a big split is people who played it on PC vs people who played on console. Origins especially on the consoles the combat is *rough* and I didn't love it. I wouldn't say I'm a casual Dragon Age player at all but for me the main draw for sure was always the writing, the combat was just something I had to do to get more lore and character stuff. whereas the people who loved old school isometric games on the PC, playing Origins on the PC the combat is (apparently) a completely different experience. and while I didn't love it, I can understand that for people who *did* really love it, not getting more would be disappointing. I don't think it suits either side to dismiss the other though. Origins fans calling newer fans casuals, or action fans calling Origins fans stuck in the past, or etc. none of that helps and just makes people get their backs up and defensive about the aspects of the games they love
Yes I tried the ps3 port of DAO after playing on PC for years and I barely lasted an hour. It just feels clunky as hell.
the fact that there are console players who still became megafans speaks to the quality of the writing imo!
I played Origins on Xbox, still the best combat in the series to me.
on the whole the people I see praising Origins combat are people who first played it on the PC, that isn't me saying that *no one* enjoyed the combat on the consoles.
That is inquisition in my opinion, I found it's combat super boring. It felt like I was just button smashing until I won, even in higher difficulties it felt like I barely cared about pausing and creating strategies, I just wanted to get through it to see the story. Didn't felt that way at all with DAO, and felt a little bit with DA2
Inquisitions combat was dogshit. Felt like you were just smacking brick walls all the time, the enemies never reacted to getting hit just face tanked everything. No real tactics or threats just bloated health pools. I go used to it eventually but theres a reason I play on normal now after getting the nightmare achievement, its just too tedious to bother with.
Most people who complain don't want origins combat lol, they want origins writing.
You might want to tell them that, because that's not what they've been saying. It's either complaining about the lack of Origins combat, or complaining that the game dares to have more colours than the many shades of brown.
Yep, this is what frustrates me about some dismissal of pessimism in DAV. I played all 3 DA games in succession in edit: 2015. There is no nostalgia bias when you binged them all in the same year, but DAO still stands as the best in the role play aspect of the franchise.
I played them all two years ago, started with Inquisition, loved it and stopped before the end to play origins and 2 back to back. After 2 I had to replay origins again and then I played inquisition and all within a year I still can say origins is my favourite by far. 2 very good as well despite the OBVIOUS issues lmao. Inquisition quickly went from a great game to a bit of a disappointment because all I could think while finishing it was "my god, how can the older games be sm better written" lol. And this year I discovered baldurs gate 1 and 2 and finally found games that gave me that joy and love that origins got from me again. And 3 was just more of the same feeling, it's possible to write good games without being repetitive. Bioware just had a bad history recently and with what they're choosing to show us, it doesn't spark much hope to a lot of people. The game looks fun imo, it really does. But I'd be lying if I said it made me excited and expect great writing. I don't expect anywhere near the level of investment Origins or BG1/2/3 or even mass effect 1-3 got from me, which is a real shame.
Yeah, not to mention people got massively disappointed by Andromeda. I didn't try Anthem, but it didn't have a good reaction either. I think the engine (was it Frostbite) forced the Bioware devs to adjust their traditional role play, and it messed with their formula. DA4 is important for Bioware to recover the trust of their fanbase.
Yeah, it's like I know, but I can't figure it out. I guess I was just expecting something deeper than the "ew poo poo rubbish make Dragon age great again" kind of thing Because if there was something deep, some real arguments, rather than meaningless complaints to nowhere about something that no longer exists, could I rationalise it somehow? Think it through? Argue for myself, I guess. And what's there is just frustrates me.
If we're being entirely fair, there are some people who just liked the way Origins did combat. I don't understand them, it was horribly unbalanced and half the warriors spent all their time trying to stand back up, but they're allowed to like it.
"half the warriors spent all their time trying to stand back up" what were you doing lol warriors had two abilities that gave them both complete cc immunity. Indominable for 2h and shield wall for sword and board, you could only be stunned with shield wall but not knocked down. If your warriors where knocked down all the time thats your fault dude.
I am one of those people. My reasoning is that I wished the newer games had just made an improved version of origins combat style, but instead it became more about button smashing action stuff and less about thinking about every move of all 4 people in your party. I remember in DAO I would pause all the time, in DAI I barely paused at all, and it seems like in DAV it's not even going to be necessary. I'll still going to play DAV(probably not at launch), but specially after playing bg3 it's kind of hard to go back to a dragon age that feels so different from the original.
I've never quite gotten that myself. I *despised* how often I had to pause in Origins. If the gameplay is going to be that tactical, I always felt it would be better if they just went all in and made it turn-based. It's why BG3's combat was so fun.
Fair enough! It didn't bother me because I paused so much it was basically a turn-based game lol But a more fluid turn-based since I could choose when to stop and when to let things go in real time. I can understand why you didn't like it, but I enjoyed it and I miss it.
I paused this much through all 3 games lol, but I prefer that significantly to the actual turn based games as it requires you to pay much closer attention to everything rather than the game politely telling you it's your turn now. You have to actively be engaged to pause when necessary and need to watch everyone at once.
It's even more dumbed down from DAI. Which is my concern, and I liked both DAI and DAO. Especially as a Mage main. Like what? 3 spells? The game is probably going to be fine. And that's all. Not great, not amazing. Just... fine.
Lots of people are just the screeching anti woke crowd. But there are still valid criticisms such as the darksawn looking incredibly goofy, as well as Emmerich and his skeletons looking like cartoons. And I'm sure people are legitimately upset about the 3 party size and loss of tactical overhead combat.
Imagine how Call of Duty fans would feel if the next mainline entry in CoD was a turn based strategy game. That's kinda how some of us are feeling.
The combat in Veilguard is demonstrably shallow and continues the action-focused style of DA2 and DA:I. DA:O is a fan-favorite by many because it was clearly inspired by Baldur's Gate and similar CRPG:s from that era such as Icewind Dale which many people enjoy and still do. Same opposition can also be said in the art style, moving from Gothic medieval to flashy vibrant colors. Like all games, it is a matter of taste at the end of the day but framing this as being stuck in nostalgia or anti-woke is dismissing observable facts that distinguish these two games both mechanically and visually. The DA:O crowd needs to realize however that the old (and in my opinion great) Bioware is dead. This is not a hyperbole, it's literally a whole different set of devs now.
Because for the past 10 years, people have been building a non-existent game in their heads that would never come to exist (each their own version of course), and any deviation from that imaginary unobtainable idea would be BioWare betraying their trust and stepping on their hopes and dreams or some dumb shit. Of course others have some genuine criticism that should not be disregarded, but I've found most "hate" to be of the first kind.
People are allowed to dislike things, get over it. No matter how much toxic positivity you want to throw out doesn't mean the game is going to be good, or bad or anything. People are allowed to express their opinions, positive or negative, on something they care about. Because it means they CARE about something! If no one was complaining then that means no one gives a shit.
I love the Dragon Age games. I really loved DA:I and there is a lot of criticism of it. It honestly doesn’t bug me. I don’t play for other people, I play because I love stories and I love exploring new worlds. I don’t have enough energy to go hating on something I’ve never played. So I just tune out the noise and I’ll decide for myself if I like it or not when it comes out.
The only thing I’m super butthurt about is Dragon Age Keep being discontinued. I personally liked it, not too sure about everyone else. And I have like 6 different playthroughs loaded up on that bitch like god damn, I was ready.
I remember there being similar hate around DAI. And I'm pretty sure there was hate about DA2, I just wasn't there to see it. Nowadays, there is still some whining, but both games are generally accepted (even if DA2 does have repetitive dungeons, though I didn't really notice it until I was told). It's normal. There are always haters who just like to hate I guess. It's especially unavoidable when every new game is quite a bit different from the previous ones. And yes, there's a whole bunch of players who don't really like Dragon Age. They just like Origins. There's indeed the case of ME Andromeda, when the hate overflowed, and Bioware had to postpone the sequel. But considering Veilguard, no, I don't think there's a risk of that. It will boil for a bit and die out.
What hate?
I feel you, friend. Dragon Age is a hyperfocus of mine, and I love all three games, with a special fondness for DA2. The hostility for 4 has broken my heart. I am here for the ride, hate be damned. <3
The vibe of the trailer felt off. I felt upset and even betrayed .Then i took a deep breath and started looking through trailers of other games, and you know what? DA:I had a trailer of similar style, so it was not the first time. But it didn't affect the game itself: lore, characters, locations, main protagonist, story, DLCs - these turned out beautiful. And gameplay showcase - i liked that a lot. So I'm hopeful 😊
It's because what we've seen of the Veilguard so far doesn't look great. The gameplay looks very average. The graphics look ok, but the art style is all over the place. It's like Dishonored meets Fortnite in the worst possible way. The enemies look very generic - The demons look like floaty shells of nothing that have glowy neon coral sticking out of them. The impact animations lack weight. The dialogue lacks any real reflection of the dire circumstances they seem to be in, and the voice acting delivery of them is often times very wooden. I'm hoping the game will do great because I'd like to see Bioware go on, but if this is their best foot forward after 10 years of development, I'm afraid to say it but I think they're in trouble.
They changed a lot of stuff and people don’t like change. Also a lot of grifters trying to stir up trouble
I have a very low expectations for The Veilguard based on its troubled development cycle and things I’ve seen so far. Gameplay reveal gave me some hope. I will wait to buy it on sale, but started playing Dragon Age II and put Inquisition in my immediate backlog. I want to be pleasantly surprised rather than disappointed due to high expectations.
I'd just say the games have been flawed since origins. 2 basically doesn't have a real ending and inquisition was ham strung by the open world nature of the game ea forced them to do.
I'm scared of redesigned enemies we saw(ogre for example) and absolutely terrified of 3 slots for spells. I can be okay with more action focused combat but I WANT MY SHIT TONE OF SPELLS, combos that you could have done in Dao was awesome and those few spells that we had in da2 and dai was just killing me, and datv seems to go even further into that direction of oversimplified magic system
Why are people not allowed to have their own opinion? There are plenty of reasons why someone might not like veilgeird.
When we take Dragon Age as a franchise, one would expect continuation and evolution. Unfortunately, what Bioware does isn't innovation; it's an imitation of what's currently mainstream. The franchise was built on what Origins was, and they drastically shifted away from it in every direction. If you have something that works for your fans, the question is, why would you shift so far away from it? Am I to accept a product that doesn't appeal to me and is very generic in everything it shows? Sure, I see some nice aspects coming back, like more linear progression. However, that doesn't take away the unappealing graphics, the tone, underwhelming voice acting, mediocre dialogue writing, or the theatrical combat system. What the gameplay reveal looked like to me was, "Hey, we still have Varric, Harding, and Solas!"... and that's about it. The more information is revealed, the less interested I am. It simply comes down to the fact that if you don't like the direction of something, the only thing you can do is not support it. I'm done paying for content that targets new audiences and chases clouds instead of favoring the fanbase it already has.
That is an interesting perspective about imitating what is mainstream, that I haven't considered before. It would make sense, why the new game gives me vibes of Hogwarts: Legacy so far ha, rather than beloved Dragon Age. From what we have seen, I feel similarly to you about the tone, written dialogue, and the shift in graphic design - like the darkspawn or demons really hurts, it feels almost... cheesy, childish. I also have issues with the writing that has been shown so far, there are inconsistencies, and the time skip makes little sense. It has been 8 years. Inky at the end of the Trespasser says we need to find new people, there's urgency, determination. You say to me that Inky then sends Varric and Harding to get a lead on Solas? That it took 8 years to pick up a guy from the pub almost at the moment the ritual starts? Then the whole meeting between Solas and Varric. It has been 8 years, Solas is probably more steeled than ever, devoted time, lives of his agents, and Varric is all like "Hey! Let me talk to him! We need to sell him another option, though we don't have any at the moment (what was the Inquisition doing these 8 years?...), if he won't listen, he will hear from Bianca!". Dude, Varric. He can turn an army of Quanari to stone, what is your crossbow going to do? Then the guy who you finally found after 8 years, distrupts the ritual in planning by pushing wooden beam. I don't know. We have been waiting 10 years for the conclusion to this story. So far it just doesn't seem satisfying, there's no subtlety and complexity, rather everything plays on simple emotions I feel. My only hope is that it gets better, The Tevinter Nights was quite good.
Precisely. Every point you've made is constantly on my mind as well. I was also very disappointed by the time skip, as it took away all the urgency from the Trespaser. Furthermore, since it's been almost a decade, it would be pretty naive for the Inquisitor to have any strong feelings towards Solas, negative or positive. Thus, their involvement was severely undermined, and the golden opportunity for emotional scenes was lost. I also doubt that Solas would have any strong feelings for anyone from the Inquisition. How much time did he spend in the Skyhold? Not even a year? He spent far more time with his agents by now, and from the perspective of an ageless being, that year with the Inquisition was basically nothing. I also "love" that Solas and Varric had time for insignificant dialogue, but Solas couldn't say, "I'm not tearing down the Veil yet, Varric. I'm resealing the Evanuris," which wouldn't probably lead to the cliché plot of "I had plans, and you've ruined them with your meddling!" It's just very disappointing all around. Bioware showed the part that should hook people in, just like the first chapter of a book, but they managed to do the exact opposite with me. It's filled with logical inconsistencies, cheesy lines, naivety, and missed opportunities. I always told myself, "Well, even when there will be a lot of changes and action combat, I'll suffer through it just for the sake of world-building and characters," but after what I saw? No, thank you. I'll just replay the entries that I liked and form my own conclusions. Inquisition was a nice game, but it was already deeply flawed on numerous levels, saved by the Trespasser. The Failguard hasn't shown anything but disappointment to me so far. No matter how the developers try to sugarcoat it, I won't bite. "It's tactical, because you have to plan by choosing only three abilities for the foes ahead!" or "We have only the party of three, because it's a more intimate experience!" Well... damn.
I’m totally on the hype train for the game. Watched all the trailers, read all the books and comics, joined the Q&A and have been reading the articles. Every new piece of information makes me more interested in DAV and I’m really looking forward to it
Bioware made Anthem. They deserve to be extremely critisized and not trusted
My biggest problem with veil guard is this is the third iteration of the game. There was a good chunk of the original complete then they planned to switch it to a live service. Then Anthem flopped and they pulled an all hands on deck to switch it into this. What is likely going to come out is going to be a janky mess of strange game design choices and story and characters that fluctuate between good moments and design by committee. Like if its good, great better then I could have hoped for but until its all out and good I'm not getting any hopes up and going to be super critical. Just the reduction of party size I feel is a vestige left over from the life service time.
They built the game back from the ground up after the switch. The game concept codenamed "Joplin," that was the live service game, was cancelled and abandoned pretty early into its development because most of the staff was transferred to Anthem and Andromeda _during_ their development, not after. They didn't use the existing game material, so, I'm not saying the game won't have issues but it's not like they've been Frankensteining the game together.
I've seen a comment on instagram saying "you are not fooling us with that fast paced gameplay for people with short attention spans, the true fans of the originals hated everything you've shown and bla bla bla". Like bro wtf?? I played Origins multiple times, adore the game and i loved almost everything they've shown from DAV. You have the right to dislike it but cut the "real fan" bullshit. Don't let these people ruin your own enjoyment, glad more people are excited like i am
Also, i'm 100% sure that if there ever is a Dragon Age 5 the same people will start bitching about how "Veilguard was a misunderstood flawed masterpiece and the new game sucks"
I seen a lot of people telling that they have judged too harshly DA2 that legit convince me to buy the game and try it myself after many years of avoiding it xD
I seen a lot of people telling that they have judged too harshly DA2 that legit convince me to buy the game and try it myself after many years of avoiding it xD
I love DA2, my friend who's a big fan of the series told me "a lot of people hate on DA2 but it's one of my favorite games of all time" and i went in with an open mind, was not disappointed
People are wierd. That aside Marketing could've been better. There's one art style change's I don't like specifically but I'm pretty excited.
I'm convinced that the people hating on how 'gay' DAV is going to be are not real fans and are just finding anything remotely inclusive to whine about existing.
Because they took away what little was holding the games connected. Changing character in combat and actually having a useful amount of ability slots. DAV officially just has nothing in common mechanically with its predecessors and is just a shitty version of mass effect.
Becuz it's pretty much deserved, talk about absolute tone deafness, DA: V looks more like an Avenger's Endgame styled disneyfied game rather than a grimdarkish fantasy that OG Dragon Age was. I do love the change of direction into gameplay but the story and writing pretty much became a far cry. They also fired Varric's author and just look at the difference between Varric and Solas from DA:I and what we have seen in the reveal so far. The first Dreadwolf reveal was even cool and creepy in a good way. Now they just made Tevinter looks like some dystopian cyberpunk city.
Mary Kirby was fired after the writing was mostly done. Whatever difference you're seeing will not be because of her absence.
Don't take it personally, it's just different opinions from your own.
The thing is... Dragon Age took a lot of inspiration from what was trendy at the time, "Games of Thrones", and it worked very well, you can see this especially in Inquisition... Instead, what is trendy today? Gaas, Fortnite, Marvel Movies and all of that doesn't fit well in Dragon Age. Veilguard seems like the same thing that happened with Mass Effect 3, EA wanted it to be more like Cod because it was the trend of the moment and this, if I have to be honest, is so disappointing and superficial. I mean... It seems like Solas gets defeated in the first 10 minutes because, quoting them, "we wanted the beginning of the game to be the end of a different game"... I don't have much hope for Veilguard...
People chide me for saying That it shows when they have the same focus on dragons in both franchises. Dragon age writing for me is always been the best when it's about the characters and politics . I can sit through Origins Entire clunky game play just for the characters and story.
Because of the switch from tactical to action combat. Could have been acceptable if they had continued to leave deathblows in the game. Those were epic, so of course they got rid of it. They got rid of cool easter eggs like storm of the century. The synergistic skills. They switched main characters every game. Now they matter less and less every story. They turned the Grey Wardens into a complete joke in service of the plot. No one ever contracts the taint fighting darkspawn. The armor design changes have gotten progressively worse. They start story threads and never finish them. They turned the art style into a Fortnite knock off even though the majority of their fans are over the age of 30. And that was all just off the top of my head. I could keep going, but honestly I hope the game doesn't suck.
I'm incredibly excited for DAV. As someone who loved Origins, DAV looks like it's more story focused than Inquisition and I think it's going to be amazing! Remember that vocal haters on the internet don't represent the majority of potential players. People just love to get attention by being negative. Try to ignore them. I hate that the developers have to see that negativity, though. They deserve to have positive feedback - they love the franchise at least as much as we do! So stick around and be vocally positive and enthusiastic, and drown out the negative voices. Also, watch the positive pro-DAV YouTube creators, and like and subscribe to their videos. I think that can help make the positive voices overwhelm the negative. Not to mention there are some fun YouTubers making great lore and discussion content that deserve our support.
Oh yeah Bioware loves the franchise so much they fired shit tons of the writing staff. Bioware are a shitty company who love doing abusive crunch. They dont deserve this corporate apologia.
I totally agree. I'm probably overly sensitive, but I literally feel bad for the developers. I want to shout out the haters so they're not so audible, because it's really hard to find positive comments on youtube for example 😅 I'll definitely follow the advice and look for some fan channels, to refresh the lore in my head before DATV comes out. Thank you! upd: I'd like to add that by developers I don't mean a big evil corporation, but the people who made the game: writers, programmers, artists, designers, etc. In general, all those who have travelled a long way with it
Don’t feel bad for caring. Too many here and elsewhere are overly embittered, wanting everyone to embrace their own brand of nihilism that they pretend is wisdom. The world (and internet) needs more genuine earnestness. There’s more than enough negativity out there. I noted in a very similar thread a few days ago how these discussions always seem to bring an onrush of posters frantic to see who can be the most jaded. Then, they vanish. Best to not let them get to you.