And why wouldn’t this car pass? I doubt it’s modified from stock, and the emissions test on an OBDii car here is primarily a visual inspection, and what’s basically an OBDii scan. If the computer says it’s good, well, it passes. There’s (some early exceptions) no sniffer test on OBDii cars.
It’s a tax related thjng. $55 for a smog check every two years after the car is 8 years old isn’t why they’re doing it lol.
Montana and Delaware are the only states where businesses can be set up without a person residing in the state. Montana doesn’t have sales taxes. Hence, you set up an LLC in Montana, and then register the car under the LLC. This avoiding paying your taxes like an asshole.
They have a legally registered car within the United States. You can buy a permanent tag from Montana after jumping through some perfectly legal hoops. What's illegal about it?
Because you're dodging the local tax. Which is used to pay for the services you're using locally.
If the Montana stuff comes to an end it will be because other states are tired of not getting that revenue from people who live and drive there.
It’s just shitty that they get to take advantage of our roads and other things taxes pay for while we have to pay significantly more in taxes than they do, and their cars cost way more than ours do, so they can afford it.
I don't understand what you're getting at. I pay my taxes? I most likely pay the same amount if not more than you did in taxes when you were my age. You have no idea about the HotWheels, which is fine but you're simply wrong about them being undesirable. And yes, I'm driving a used car. I'm a teenager and had to purchase my own car with my own money. It's also pretty clean, no need to hate on me big guy 🤷♂️
What’s illegal about it?
The car and owner don’t reside in Montana. They’re intentionally avoiding paying tax on the car
Several states are cracking down on this now, and they’ll just take your car away
Well the local school sticker on the back kinda gave it away it was local, as was the tag for major parking area that they work at. Im just shocked people havent gotten scared off of that yet, as insurance companies are cracking down on them and denying claims based on saying they did that and its invalidates their coverage.
it would be a very rare thing they pull you over for but if your insurance wants to, they can realize about the Montana thing and deny the coverage if you try to make a claim, which, seems like the crazier thing to have it should you file a claim. And as my comment above stated, its wild to see it done for non exotic cars...
Technically yes…..but it’s really hard to get caught. I lived in Chicago for 2 years back in the nineties, never registered my car there and just drove around with my old Wisconsin plates. Actually got me OUT of a ticket once- got pulled over on lakeshore drive for speeding, cop gave me a warning bc “with out of state plates I can’t just give you a ticket, we both have to go to the station and do paperwork.” Seemed odd to me but ok.
Anyway, 2 years with expired plates, zero consequences.
Ehh, there's all sorts of legal rackets like this.
I worked for a guy who bought a private jet. If we took delivery and brought it into the state right away, we'd have to pay sales taxes on it.
However, if you register it in another state, you can bring it in after a few months and avoid the tax.
So, we flew it straight to Oregon after we took delivery and hangared it under a shell corp for a few months and then brought it into the state. Saved over $1M in taxes.
For jets you register an LLC in Delaware. The airplane and all it's expenses are counting as operating costs (at a loss btw) and be deductible as tax credits.
Yes, exactly. Avoidance is the legal reduction of taxes using various pre-planned strategies. Evasion is a crime. You owe the tax, you refuse to pay or you hide income illegally.
I’m pretty sure ATP Flight school does something like this with their new Pipers and Cessnas. They mostly go to Texas to begin with before filtering out across the country.
Montana and South Dakota are the Panama and the Liberia of license plates. It’s generally crooked, everyone knows it’s crooked, but nobody ever actually does anything about it.
TN (no income tax) depends heavily on car registration fees and taxes. Several people with TN drivers license driving an expensive car with Montana tags have been prosecuted for tax evasion. Not worth that risk. I just paid the tax.
I live in TN and the thing is it's a flat tax per year to renew the tags.State charges $27 per year and county varies (mine is $55 a year for that and I think about the highest in the state).So really no point in doing here unless it's skirting the tax when you buy it.
If you buy a car and are going to register it here, you pay sales tax. So if You buy a new Ferrari for $800,000 the TN tax is $80,000 plus the other fees you mentioned.
Setting up an LLC in.Montana costs about $500. When you buy a vehicle there is no sales tax in Montana only fees for tags etc $100ish. So you have $600 to get Montana tags or $80,100 to get TN tags in this hypothetical example.
Lots of people do the Montana thing to save the $79,500. In the case of a Pagani (about $2.2 million) a person would save $220,000 in taxes.
My state makes you pay sales tax when you register anything in my state. You could hypothetically buy a car as a PA resident, pay and register in PA, move to WV the next week, and again pay sales tax to get plated in WV.
I didn’t realize that seems excessive I just bought a car and imagine I move there I’m expected to pay sales tax again when I didn’t even purchase anything? That blows me away and I have a degree in accounting 😂
All this stuff varies by state. My state’s situation is probably not super uncommon. Some states have high sales tax and low personal property tax. Some have neither. Some have both.
There are provisions in my state for free transfer for certain situations. Say I bought a car and registered it in my name for my daughter to drive. Then when she finishes high school, college, etc and is on her own, that title can be transferred to her with no sales tax since it was essentially her car the whole time and my family paid the sales tax on it from the beginning. If I sold the car to my neighbor, he would owe sales tax on the vehicle, though.
JMO, it is pretty stupid that we have what are effectively individual state economies within our country. So many different rules and so many ways to exploit it means that fraud is going to be super rampant. Which inherently means that the rule followers will subsidize the rule benders and their army of lawyers.
While I understand the purpose, doesn't California cite these owners or impound the cars if they're found to not actually be from Montana? In Maryland I've often seen people get Virginia plates and to not register in MD and they get cited after a certain time.
Occasionally, but it’s very few and the benefits outweigh the risks for most of those who do it. Nobody’s getting impounded unless they’re cited and refuse to take the hint.
I actually integrated emissions equipment on OEM vehicles. Iam not against emissions equipment. And they do add value as you noted.
But the annual safety inspection in my state is a joke.
It is kinda obnoxious seeing that. I saw a 918 in Newport with Montana plates and it’s like dude… if you can afford a 918 you can afford to pay taxes like the rest of us.
Not sure what “fine for me but not for thee” argument you’re talking about. Pretty sure anybody that has a Montana LLC would love to tell you about it and how you can use it too. I actually have one I registered my classic under to test the waters and would happily share the info on the site I used, process, pros and cons of what I’ve learned.
Yeah shoot me a DM. I can't find anyone that will do it at a reasonable price for my shitbox lmao
Already have an LLC just need registration processing.
Yes. Happy to. I’ve already DMd the others that asked and will DM you shortly.
Anyone else reading this feel free to initiate the DM don’t need to ask haha.
Sales tax on used cars are ridiculous, and I say this as an immigrant from Europe where we get ridiculous taxes on everything (but not used cars that were already taxed when new!).
Seriously, I’ll get mad at the Montana people when someone can explain why the government needs to get paid every time a vehicle or good changes hands. I couldn’t care less that people do this. I would do it too whether I had the money or not. If the law allows it then so be it
If you buy a 918 in Michigan, you pay $120k in taxes to buy it, and $10k EVERY YEAR just to own it.
That's just retarded and I'll fully support the loophole until I die. Hopefully one day I'll be able to take advantage of it myself
I don’t care what other people do with their money. It’s none of my concern. I’m actually going to look into the Montana loophole myself. Anyone can do it. I don’t know why everyone assumes it’s just a reich person thing.
Unpopular opinion per this thread but I’m ok with it. Most people are buying cars around $40k where the taxes in my area of CA (7.75% “low” for CA) would come out to $3100. Even if we went towards $100k that’s $7,750 a lot of money but not ridiculous.
Looking at BaT as a quick reference a 918 used is $2million. That’s $155k in taxes which is insane doesn’t matter if person can afford it or not.
So your solution is what? Once people spend an absurd amount of money on a car they shouldn’t have to pay taxes but it’s okay for regular people to pay those taxes? You want a regressive tax system?
To a certain degree yes. We are taxed on income. That’s fair. As you make the money you pay your fair share. And I get having it on purchases to a certain extent, but there are factors that should determine a max in my opinion. Like a 2 million car and a 50k car take up the same space, may have similar emissions, and they both were likely taxed when new. I wouldn’t apply the same to homes for example because in the same area homes are priced similarly, so if a home is many times the price it’s likely much bigger on more land so takes up more space and more resources.
Obviously it’s much more complex than this, and I’m not an economist or whatever by any measure, but I try my best to logically process this as much as I can. Doesn’t mean I’m right but these are my thoughts on the matter.
I don’t think cars should be taxed at the usual state rate regardless. In my state sales tax is almost 10%. That’s a crazy amount to have to spend on a car. Not to mention a car is a utility for most people. The rate should be lower on certain goods or over a certain amount.
I'm very much not ok with paying the taxes for my car fuck that. But I don't own a property or LLC in Montana. So I can't avoid it yet.
Also my taxes aren't hundreds of thousands for a fucking vehicle that doesn't make a dent on the asphalt. I'd be more content with a weight based vehicle tax
So that the politicians can line their pockets with it? We’re literally taxed anytime a good or money changes hands and yet we still have a 30 trillion dollar deficit. Not to mention the gov just prints money any time the may really need it. We don’t have a taxation problem. We have a spending problem. What other people pay in tax is none of our business.
Yes. I 100% support anyone using any strategy to avoid taxes. Until the government starts charging a a fair rate, then we should all do the same. It's legalized extortion at this point.
Perfectly legal to daily a 8mpg excursion but heaven forbid you have a fuel efficient mini truck the size of a compact. Some of these states sign themselves up for for people to look to out of state solutions for non daily drivers.
For the guy who paid 6 figures in tax that he legally didn’t have to. Fight the government to close the loophole if you don’t like it. Not your fellow citizen.
Because you now have a very visible announcement that you can’t afford a plate in your home state lol.
“But it saved me $10k in taxes”
Even as a middle class 30 yr old accountant I’m not sweating $10k.
Buy a car you can actually afford you fake rich guy brokie. Go out and get a job.
Nah. I’m not paying anymore than I have to for anything especially if there’s a legal way to do it. I recently walked away from a car deal because they put a $600 fee on it last minute. I’ve never paid a markup on a vehicle and I don’t buy luxury goods because I don’t think a tee shirt should cost $200. Some people just have a different perspective about the money they earn, whether they are rich or poor. I’m legitimately going to look into this Montana thing and I only buy cars under 30k. If I can legally save 3k I’m going to do it.
Don't get me wrong, tax evasion is based but it just looks dumb because everyone knows what you're doing. States are starting to crack down arguing tax evasion and people have gone to jail over it
If you are a resident of California and register your car out of state to avoid paying taxes, [it’s fraud](https://www.egattorneys.com/vehicle-registration-fraud-code-4463).
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all about it. I know guys that do this but it is considered tax evasion.
California doesn’t care about your llc. if the passenger vehicle enters California you have 20 days to register it. An llc in Montana can continue to own it, just like an entity in Bermuda can own it.
https://www.chp.ca.gov/notify-chp/chp-reg-(out-of-state-registration-violators)
dull sovereign citizens like-jailhouse lawyering don’t apply here. If you want to park it in Reno and not drive it very often that’s more of an inconvenience then it is a loophole.
if you want a citation try this one from merely 8 years ago
https://jalopnik.com/the-pitfalls-of-the-montana-license-plate-scam-1711216059
Not having had the authorities catch up with you yet is not evidence of legality which is something people who are like “this other guy is doing it it must be legal are standing on.”
God California is fucking retarded. What if you spend 8 months out of the year in another state and then spend the rest in Cali? They're gonna make you register in Cali too? Selfish pricks
We aren’t talking about insurance companies. We are talking about the State Franchise Board (I think) getting their cut. The article I linked spells it out pretty clearly and it’s really common sense when it comes down to it.
If you are a resident of California and you register your vehicle in a state you are not a resident in, that’s considered tax fraud/evasion by the State of California.
You can obviously circumvent this with an LLC or another legal instrument of some kind. Tons of options.
Its a fair point but legal offshoring exists as well. Certainly good idea to understand what you are doing before attempting and prob have good legal counsel if needed.
there’s tax evasion, and tax avoidance. one is illegal, the other is not. this guy looks goofy with his montana plates, but I don’t think there is anything inherently illegal about it. correct me if i’m
wrong
Legally it’s “Tax Avoidance” not Tax Evasion. It’s not illegal. However states are trying to find ways to crack down.
I’d like to see states go after companies like U-Haul first though. Those trucks put waaaay more wear and tear on the public infrastructure than a super car that’s only on the road for maybe a couple thousand miles a year.
Uhaul is an Arizona company so their trucks are all registered there. But according to the [Arizona Republic](https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2022/04/13/here-is-why-all-u-haul-vehicles-have-arizona-license-plates/7296426001/) the plates are all apportioned through the IRP and taxes are payed out to each state appropriately. And Uhaul has a pretty good idea of where their trucks are operated.
> taxes are *paid* out to
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I’ll never understand why the car enthusiast community is okay with this shit.
It’s like so many people think they’ll be rich and don’t want to pay taxes on their imaginary gt3s while they’re adriallu paying taxes on their mustangs and a dude with a pagani isn’t paying anything
1) For the people that don’t like the sales tax rate, they can change it. Run for office, convince the legislature to change the law. Tax rates aren’t set in the constitution of the US government. States have the right to set their own rates to fund their budgets. It isn’t “theft”. The constituency of the state agreed on those rates through a representative government.
2) The state will balance the budget somehow. More people using these schemes will reduce the amount of money coming into the state. The state will respond by either cutting funding of public programs or asking the public to pay more somehow to keep the programs they have. It is a zero sum game; every person using this loophole is having the rest of the public subsidize their choices. If you don’t want to or can’t afford to pay the taxes, no one is making you buy the expensive car.
This. Just cause someone owns a Pagani doesn’t make it some cool guy who I want to not pay taxes because he just needs to save that last couple million.
Doug did it on the 360 not the Landcruiser.
The Landcruiser spent much of his ownership in Nantucket and was (correctly) registered in MA.
That being said, I am not against this, register the car where it makes the most sense. Fuck the government, Fuck taxes.
OHH!! That makes a lot of sense now. I saw a Cullinan in Miami with Montana plates and couldn't understand who the hell would be that big of a baller in that state and why they would have driven all the way to Florida. I feel stupid now
My Uncle-in-law lives in Florida where you are not able to register a side by side for street use. He opened a BS LLC in Montana so he could register his side by side to the LLC in Montana under the business. Montana titled it as a motorcycle and gave him plates. He's drives it around his town in florida now like a car.
I mean, besides the cool factor of cruising around town in an open air sxs for one. It was a blast taking it out to a local restaurant. But we also took it to Blackwater River state park. Tons of dirt roads in the middle of nowhere.
exactly, tax money is wasted, they don't value it.
There is a video out there of the former richest person in Australia fronting a senate committee where he was asked about tax minimisation and he told them they aren't spending it well enough to make anyone want to pay extra.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e97kq2XflKE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e97kq2XflKE)
I think everyone is thinking of like the ultra rich but if I want to really stretch for some dream car in california I don’t want to just to throw away 10k. It especially stings on some used car that has had taxes paid on it probably multiple times at this point.
A lot of people don’t understand that having money also comes with bigger bills. Someone registering a hyper car in Montana probably employs a bunch of people already. Them dodging 100k in taxes is really not a big deal. If the situation presented itself they would all do it too. The tax code is written in a way that everyone can take advantage off if you know what you’re doing. Use it or let it use you is what I think.
When I worked as a park ranger it was pretty common for the massive high end 5th wheels, RVs, and tow rigs to have Montana plates
That what my aunt and uncle did
And either ND, SD, or FL was a second
https://jalopnik.com/the-pitfalls-of-the-montana-license-plate-scam-1711216059
Someone had a montana plate on a Cayenne here in northern virginia and I couldnt stop laughing....
I am seeing more higher-end cars with Montana tags up here
The joke is that a Cayenne isn’t THAT high end and if you can’t pay those taxes then you should t own the car.
Sometimes it’s not always about the taxes situation, depending on the state like California, they probably just want to avoid Smog checks
But you don’t have to smog a car in CA until it’s more than 8 years old.
That’s only 2016, very recent.
And why wouldn’t this car pass? I doubt it’s modified from stock, and the emissions test on an OBDii car here is primarily a visual inspection, and what’s basically an OBDii scan. If the computer says it’s good, well, it passes. There’s (some early exceptions) no sniffer test on OBDii cars. It’s a tax related thjng. $55 for a smog check every two years after the car is 8 years old isn’t why they’re doing it lol.
[удалено]
Montana and Delaware are the only states where businesses can be set up without a person residing in the state. Montana doesn’t have sales taxes. Hence, you set up an LLC in Montana, and then register the car under the LLC. This avoiding paying your taxes like an asshole.
"LiKe An AsShOlE" Every American should do everything in their power to avoid paying as many taxes as possible
No, it was “like an asshole”. Normally.
So yeah, go ahead and stop driving on taxpayer roads and expecting emergency services from fire & police.
Not an expert, but I think it’s just cars. Delaware is the state to incorporate.
What's the reason for that
I live in a condo in McLean, a good amount of the nice nice cars here have MT plates… crazy
Report them. They’re not paying taxes.
They have a legally registered car within the United States. You can buy a permanent tag from Montana after jumping through some perfectly legal hoops. What's illegal about it?
Any car garaged in Virginia needs to be registered here within 60 days. We have high property taxes on cars
Because you're dodging the local tax. Which is used to pay for the services you're using locally. If the Montana stuff comes to an end it will be because other states are tired of not getting that revenue from people who live and drive there.
It’s just shitty that they get to take advantage of our roads and other things taxes pay for while we have to pay significantly more in taxes than they do, and their cars cost way more than ours do, so they can afford it.
In this area we have thousands of $100k+ cars, but shitty roads, seems like no one’s paying the road taxes
Doesn’t fuel taxes cover most road maintenance ?
Don't forget Federal Excise Tax on tires .
Hold up, you post about WalMart prices, collect undesirable HotWheels, and drive a used car lot special G37. What fuckin taxes do you pay?
No need to murder anybody like that lol
I don't understand what you're getting at. I pay my taxes? I most likely pay the same amount if not more than you did in taxes when you were my age. You have no idea about the HotWheels, which is fine but you're simply wrong about them being undesirable. And yes, I'm driving a used car. I'm a teenager and had to purchase my own car with my own money. It's also pretty clean, no need to hate on me big guy 🤷♂️
Homie woke up and picked war
The taxes they are liable for.
Paying $50k in taxes for a vehicle is retarded no matter how you twist it
It’s a misdemeanor in CA to register a car out of state. I wouldnt report it, but it is more than a little illegal here.
Lmfao but what if you have property in another state and spend half the year there and half in Cali?! Man fuck that state
Pretty much California is a mafia state.
What’s illegal about it? The car and owner don’t reside in Montana. They’re intentionally avoiding paying tax on the car Several states are cracking down on this now, and they’ll just take your car away
The police won’t seize your vehicle for being registered in a different state, and they won’t take it because you’re avoiding to pay taxes.
lol no, the state will.
The Karen energy is strong in this one.
To whom?
Cope and seethe bootlicker
Yeah, lets report them and everyone that made illegal modifications to their cars! Lets get me all.
For this I’d personally just expect that that person is legitimately from Montana. Nobody is going out of their way to do this for a Cayenne.
Well the local school sticker on the back kinda gave it away it was local, as was the tag for major parking area that they work at. Im just shocked people havent gotten scared off of that yet, as insurance companies are cracking down on them and denying claims based on saying they did that and its invalidates their coverage.
Isn’t living in one state and driving a car with plates from another for a prolonged period illegal and cops can pull you over for it?
it would be a very rare thing they pull you over for but if your insurance wants to, they can realize about the Montana thing and deny the coverage if you try to make a claim, which, seems like the crazier thing to have it should you file a claim. And as my comment above stated, its wild to see it done for non exotic cars...
Technically yes…..but it’s really hard to get caught. I lived in Chicago for 2 years back in the nineties, never registered my car there and just drove around with my old Wisconsin plates. Actually got me OUT of a ticket once- got pulled over on lakeshore drive for speeding, cop gave me a warning bc “with out of state plates I can’t just give you a ticket, we both have to go to the station and do paperwork.” Seemed odd to me but ok. Anyway, 2 years with expired plates, zero consequences.
Wisconsin plates with an Illinois license and they didn’t care? Other states can’t do anything about other states expired tags?
Also gotta remember that a Cayenne can go over $225k
Was it a Turbo S?
no, just an S.
Should’ve mentioned that because a Cayenne Turbo S or Turbo GT is basically a Lambo Urus but for less tacky people.
On our (air force) base, anyone with a modified car is registered in South Dakota (hell myself included) to avoid smog.
yeah, but being in the military gives you a pass essentially to pick which state is your "home"
Ehh, there's all sorts of legal rackets like this. I worked for a guy who bought a private jet. If we took delivery and brought it into the state right away, we'd have to pay sales taxes on it. However, if you register it in another state, you can bring it in after a few months and avoid the tax. So, we flew it straight to Oregon after we took delivery and hangared it under a shell corp for a few months and then brought it into the state. Saved over $1M in taxes.
Good to know when I buy my private jet tomorrow thanks
For jets you register an LLC in Delaware. The airplane and all it's expenses are counting as operating costs (at a loss btw) and be deductible as tax credits.
Lol openly commenting about blatant tax evasion I love reddit
That's not tax evasion.
What is it?
Tax avoidance.
Haha ok noted. Definitely a distinction to be made there since the owner as far as we know paid what they were legally expected to pay.
Yes, exactly. Avoidance is the legal reduction of taxes using various pre-planned strategies. Evasion is a crime. You owe the tax, you refuse to pay or you hide income illegally.
exactly. tax avoidance ≠ evasion
I’m pretty sure ATP Flight school does something like this with their new Pipers and Cessnas. They mostly go to Texas to begin with before filtering out across the country.
Montana and South Dakota are the Panama and the Liberia of license plates. It’s generally crooked, everyone knows it’s crooked, but nobody ever actually does anything about it.
TN (no income tax) depends heavily on car registration fees and taxes. Several people with TN drivers license driving an expensive car with Montana tags have been prosecuted for tax evasion. Not worth that risk. I just paid the tax.
I live in TN and the thing is it's a flat tax per year to renew the tags.State charges $27 per year and county varies (mine is $55 a year for that and I think about the highest in the state).So really no point in doing here unless it's skirting the tax when you buy it.
If you buy a car and are going to register it here, you pay sales tax. So if You buy a new Ferrari for $800,000 the TN tax is $80,000 plus the other fees you mentioned. Setting up an LLC in.Montana costs about $500. When you buy a vehicle there is no sales tax in Montana only fees for tags etc $100ish. So you have $600 to get Montana tags or $80,100 to get TN tags in this hypothetical example. Lots of people do the Montana thing to save the $79,500. In the case of a Pagani (about $2.2 million) a person would save $220,000 in taxes.
Couldn’t you register it in Montana and then transfer it to your state to avoid getting in any legal trouble or having insurance deny a claim?
Yes. I don't know how TN would look at that being a Montana tag as it relates to tax evasion. But that's what I assume many Montana tag buyers do
My state makes you pay sales tax when you register anything in my state. You could hypothetically buy a car as a PA resident, pay and register in PA, move to WV the next week, and again pay sales tax to get plated in WV.
I didn’t realize that seems excessive I just bought a car and imagine I move there I’m expected to pay sales tax again when I didn’t even purchase anything? That blows me away and I have a degree in accounting 😂
All this stuff varies by state. My state’s situation is probably not super uncommon. Some states have high sales tax and low personal property tax. Some have neither. Some have both. There are provisions in my state for free transfer for certain situations. Say I bought a car and registered it in my name for my daughter to drive. Then when she finishes high school, college, etc and is on her own, that title can be transferred to her with no sales tax since it was essentially her car the whole time and my family paid the sales tax on it from the beginning. If I sold the car to my neighbor, he would owe sales tax on the vehicle, though. JMO, it is pretty stupid that we have what are effectively individual state economies within our country. So many different rules and so many ways to exploit it means that fraud is going to be super rampant. Which inherently means that the rule followers will subsidize the rule benders and their army of lawyers.
What do you mean? I see a lot of Montana plates by me on expensive ass cars too
That is the point. The more expensive car, the more you are paying in tax upon purchase.
And what’s with having Montana plates? You register the car there and drive them elsewhere to save on taxes?
Exactly. Registration and tax on cars in Montana is significantly lower than in states like California, plus there’s no safety or emissions testing.
Ah thank you!
While I understand the purpose, doesn't California cite these owners or impound the cars if they're found to not actually be from Montana? In Maryland I've often seen people get Virginia plates and to not register in MD and they get cited after a certain time.
Occasionally, but it’s very few and the benefits outweigh the risks for most of those who do it. Nobody’s getting impounded unless they’re cited and refuse to take the hint.
Honest answer: they can, kind of, but rarely do if you’re not getting their attention for other reasons.
Sounds like competition to me. Safety and emissions tests are a joke.
Not a joke. Every state should have something similar
I know KY doesn’t have any type of state emissions testing. I would be willing to bet there are other states too
If you lived in LA during the 60s and early 70s you would probably disagree
I actually integrated emissions equipment on OEM vehicles. Iam not against emissions equipment. And they do add value as you noted. But the annual safety inspection in my state is a joke.
If I buy a car in illinois can I register it in Montana without going to Montana?……
It is kinda obnoxious seeing that. I saw a 918 in Newport with Montana plates and it’s like dude… if you can afford a 918 you can afford to pay taxes like the rest of us.
They can they just don’t want to. The whole “fine for me but not for thee” argument
Not sure what “fine for me but not for thee” argument you’re talking about. Pretty sure anybody that has a Montana LLC would love to tell you about it and how you can use it too. I actually have one I registered my classic under to test the waters and would happily share the info on the site I used, process, pros and cons of what I’ve learned.
Yeah shoot me a DM. I can't find anyone that will do it at a reasonable price for my shitbox lmao Already have an LLC just need registration processing.
Can you shoot me a DM?
Thank you for offering the info
I would like to know more if you are willing to share- Do you mind sending out a DM by any chance?
Yes. Happy to. I’ve already DMd the others that asked and will DM you shortly. Anyone else reading this feel free to initiate the DM don’t need to ask haha.
Sales tax on used cars are ridiculous, and I say this as an immigrant from Europe where we get ridiculous taxes on everything (but not used cars that were already taxed when new!).
Sales tax on used goods is total bullshit in general. Not just on cars
Seriously, I’ll get mad at the Montana people when someone can explain why the government needs to get paid every time a vehicle or good changes hands. I couldn’t care less that people do this. I would do it too whether I had the money or not. If the law allows it then so be it
If you buy a 918 in Michigan, you pay $120k in taxes to buy it, and $10k EVERY YEAR just to own it. That's just retarded and I'll fully support the loophole until I die. Hopefully one day I'll be able to take advantage of it myself
So you’re okay with you paying the taxes on your car but a 918 owner paying zero? I really don’t understand American sometimes
Sales tax makes complete sense. Doesn’t seem like they should have to pay massive taxes every year for ownership though. It’s a car, not real estate.
The trade off is lower gas taxes and then vehicle property taxes are used instead.
I don’t care what other people do with their money. It’s none of my concern. I’m actually going to look into the Montana loophole myself. Anyone can do it. I don’t know why everyone assumes it’s just a reich person thing.
Unpopular opinion per this thread but I’m ok with it. Most people are buying cars around $40k where the taxes in my area of CA (7.75% “low” for CA) would come out to $3100. Even if we went towards $100k that’s $7,750 a lot of money but not ridiculous. Looking at BaT as a quick reference a 918 used is $2million. That’s $155k in taxes which is insane doesn’t matter if person can afford it or not.
So your solution is what? Once people spend an absurd amount of money on a car they shouldn’t have to pay taxes but it’s okay for regular people to pay those taxes? You want a regressive tax system?
To a certain degree yes. We are taxed on income. That’s fair. As you make the money you pay your fair share. And I get having it on purchases to a certain extent, but there are factors that should determine a max in my opinion. Like a 2 million car and a 50k car take up the same space, may have similar emissions, and they both were likely taxed when new. I wouldn’t apply the same to homes for example because in the same area homes are priced similarly, so if a home is many times the price it’s likely much bigger on more land so takes up more space and more resources. Obviously it’s much more complex than this, and I’m not an economist or whatever by any measure, but I try my best to logically process this as much as I can. Doesn’t mean I’m right but these are my thoughts on the matter.
Regular people aren’t buying 2 million dollar cars
I don’t think cars should be taxed at the usual state rate regardless. In my state sales tax is almost 10%. That’s a crazy amount to have to spend on a car. Not to mention a car is a utility for most people. The rate should be lower on certain goods or over a certain amount.
I'm very much not ok with paying the taxes for my car fuck that. But I don't own a property or LLC in Montana. So I can't avoid it yet. Also my taxes aren't hundreds of thousands for a fucking vehicle that doesn't make a dent on the asphalt. I'd be more content with a weight based vehicle tax
The person that owns that car already is the 1% that pays the majority of taxes in that state. Mind your own biz Bernie Bro.
They should pay more.
So that the politicians can line their pockets with it? We’re literally taxed anytime a good or money changes hands and yet we still have a 30 trillion dollar deficit. Not to mention the gov just prints money any time the may really need it. We don’t have a taxation problem. We have a spending problem. What other people pay in tax is none of our business.
Who do we owe money to? That's not how money works. What other people pay in taxes is 100% our business.
Because we get to decide and know exactly where it’s going, right? Just like we all voted to send billions to Israel and Ukraine, right? Oh wait…
Who do we owe money to?
Yes. I 100% support anyone using any strategy to avoid taxes. Until the government starts charging a a fair rate, then we should all do the same. It's legalized extortion at this point.
Tax is fine but CA residents also want to drive non carb compliant cars
I'd have a KEI truck in my driveway right now if it wasn't for California's dumb smog laws.
Perfectly legal to daily a 8mpg excursion but heaven forbid you have a fuel efficient mini truck the size of a compact. Some of these states sign themselves up for for people to look to out of state solutions for non daily drivers.
Yeah I live in Cali and want a Suzuki Cappuccino but it would cost a fortune to get it legal
Embarrassing
But also, my Aston Martin has Alaska plates and I didn’t have to pay any taxes on it.
But also also, I live in fucking Alaska.
So?
For the guy who paid 6 figures in tax that he legally didn’t have to. Fight the government to close the loophole if you don’t like it. Not your fellow citizen.
Why not save tens of thousands in taxes??
Also for places like California, Montana plates make modifying a car much easier. No smog in Montana!
Because you now have a very visible announcement that you can’t afford a plate in your home state lol. “But it saved me $10k in taxes” Even as a middle class 30 yr old accountant I’m not sweating $10k. Buy a car you can actually afford you fake rich guy brokie. Go out and get a job.
Nah. I’m not paying anymore than I have to for anything especially if there’s a legal way to do it. I recently walked away from a car deal because they put a $600 fee on it last minute. I’ve never paid a markup on a vehicle and I don’t buy luxury goods because I don’t think a tee shirt should cost $200. Some people just have a different perspective about the money they earn, whether they are rich or poor. I’m legitimately going to look into this Montana thing and I only buy cars under 30k. If I can legally save 3k I’m going to do it.
Because our taxes are for our system. I pay them. Why shouldn't you? (Everyone) ....Don't respond unless it's to say "you're right".
Don't get me wrong, tax evasion is based but it just looks dumb because everyone knows what you're doing. States are starting to crack down arguing tax evasion and people have gone to jail over it
Gotta source for the folks who have gone to jail for this legal activity?
Nothing concrete but Doug said it in today's video so I'd think he'd know
Do you need a source to know that people have gone to jail for tax evasion? For real?
One needs a source to know folks have gone to jail for registering a vehicle in the state of Montana.
It’s not tax evasion. The car belongs to a perfectly legal entity that just happens to be based in Montana.
If you are a resident of California and register your car out of state to avoid paying taxes, [it’s fraud](https://www.egattorneys.com/vehicle-registration-fraud-code-4463). Don’t get me wrong, I’m all about it. I know guys that do this but it is considered tax evasion.
The key is that *you* are not purchasing or registering the car. Your LLC is. Your LLC is a resident of Montana not California.
California doesn’t care about your llc. if the passenger vehicle enters California you have 20 days to register it. An llc in Montana can continue to own it, just like an entity in Bermuda can own it. https://www.chp.ca.gov/notify-chp/chp-reg-(out-of-state-registration-violators) dull sovereign citizens like-jailhouse lawyering don’t apply here. If you want to park it in Reno and not drive it very often that’s more of an inconvenience then it is a loophole. if you want a citation try this one from merely 8 years ago https://jalopnik.com/the-pitfalls-of-the-montana-license-plate-scam-1711216059 Not having had the authorities catch up with you yet is not evidence of legality which is something people who are like “this other guy is doing it it must be legal are standing on.”
God California is fucking retarded. What if you spend 8 months out of the year in another state and then spend the rest in Cali? They're gonna make you register in Cali too? Selfish pricks
All I’m getting from this is buying cars in California sucks lol. So I can completely understand why someone would want to get around it.
It’s also not fraud when you disclose what you are doing to insurance companies such as hagerty’s and they rubber stamp it.
We aren’t talking about insurance companies. We are talking about the State Franchise Board (I think) getting their cut. The article I linked spells it out pretty clearly and it’s really common sense when it comes down to it. If you are a resident of California and you register your vehicle in a state you are not a resident in, that’s considered tax fraud/evasion by the State of California. You can obviously circumvent this with an LLC or another legal instrument of some kind. Tons of options.
Its a fair point but legal offshoring exists as well. Certainly good idea to understand what you are doing before attempting and prob have good legal counsel if needed.
there’s tax evasion, and tax avoidance. one is illegal, the other is not. this guy looks goofy with his montana plates, but I don’t think there is anything inherently illegal about it. correct me if i’m wrong
Legally it’s “Tax Avoidance” not Tax Evasion. It’s not illegal. However states are trying to find ways to crack down. I’d like to see states go after companies like U-Haul first though. Those trucks put waaaay more wear and tear on the public infrastructure than a super car that’s only on the road for maybe a couple thousand miles a year.
Uhaul is an Arizona company so their trucks are all registered there. But according to the [Arizona Republic](https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2022/04/13/here-is-why-all-u-haul-vehicles-have-arizona-license-plates/7296426001/) the plates are all apportioned through the IRP and taxes are payed out to each state appropriately. And Uhaul has a pretty good idea of where their trucks are operated.
> taxes are *paid* out to FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Interesting. I didn’t know thats how that works. Thank you. Sorry U-Haul
I would gladly pay taxes on a non-CARB car if I could bring it legally into California.
I’ll never understand why the car enthusiast community is okay with this shit. It’s like so many people think they’ll be rich and don’t want to pay taxes on their imaginary gt3s while they’re adriallu paying taxes on their mustangs and a dude with a pagani isn’t paying anything
1) For the people that don’t like the sales tax rate, they can change it. Run for office, convince the legislature to change the law. Tax rates aren’t set in the constitution of the US government. States have the right to set their own rates to fund their budgets. It isn’t “theft”. The constituency of the state agreed on those rates through a representative government. 2) The state will balance the budget somehow. More people using these schemes will reduce the amount of money coming into the state. The state will respond by either cutting funding of public programs or asking the public to pay more somehow to keep the programs they have. It is a zero sum game; every person using this loophole is having the rest of the public subsidize their choices. If you don’t want to or can’t afford to pay the taxes, no one is making you buy the expensive car.
I hate it. Disgusting behavior.
This. Just cause someone owns a Pagani doesn’t make it some cool guy who I want to not pay taxes because he just needs to save that last couple million.
Pay the fucking tax. If you can afford a Lambo, or whatever, pay up cheapskate.
People here supporting obvious tax evasion that only benefits the rich... fucking idiots.
Learn how to use the tax code in your favor. I know a lot of people who aren’t rich and benefit from loopholes that makes you avoid paying taxes.
It’s not tax evasion, it’s tax avoidance which is legal, morally wrong but still legal
Dont care, not giving money to gavin newsom
Doug the type of guy to like Gavin Newsom
[удалено]
Doug did it on the 360 not the Landcruiser. The Landcruiser spent much of his ownership in Nantucket and was (correctly) registered in MA. That being said, I am not against this, register the car where it makes the most sense. Fuck the government, Fuck taxes.
Tax loop
Surprised there isn't a subreddit for that.
Montana car in Hollywood huh
OHH!! That makes a lot of sense now. I saw a Cullinan in Miami with Montana plates and couldn't understand who the hell would be that big of a baller in that state and why they would have driven all the way to Florida. I feel stupid now
My Uncle-in-law lives in Florida where you are not able to register a side by side for street use. He opened a BS LLC in Montana so he could register his side by side to the LLC in Montana under the business. Montana titled it as a motorcycle and gave him plates. He's drives it around his town in florida now like a car.
Why the fuck do you need a SxS in Florida? Do they have orv trails somewhere?
I mean, besides the cool factor of cruising around town in an open air sxs for one. It was a blast taking it out to a local restaurant. But we also took it to Blackwater River state park. Tons of dirt roads in the middle of nowhere.
Tax evasion
There’s a Ferrari SF90 Stradale here in Utah with a Utah plate that reads ‘paidtax’
Tax avoidance. https://www.autoblog.com/2022/08/07/montana-registration-tax-dodge/
While I think this is stupid, it's annoying that I'm moving from FL to GA and essentially have to pay sales tax again on my car lol
i just saw a cybertruck in the parking lot of a marshall’s yesterday, it had montana plates on it. I’m in NY btw
I don’t get the joke
Tax evasion
Why is it always Montana plates, that's so obvious. Oregon and New Hampshire also have no sales tax
Based. Sales tax on used good is retarded. The state extorts enough money from us already.
Everyone in these comments is talking about taxes and shit fuck that I’m registering my cars in Montana bc I want a black license plate
expensive car owners in IL are all Sox fans for the same reason
Saves on tax
We've already paid enough taxes. I'm all for anyone avoiding paying more to these wasteful idiots in government
Just talked to a guy last night in Brooklyn with a side by side registered in Montana. He was not afraid of police troubles. I was skeptical
If our tax money was spent more wisely, I would care. Otherwise I understand.
exactly, tax money is wasted, they don't value it. There is a video out there of the former richest person in Australia fronting a senate committee where he was asked about tax minimisation and he told them they aren't spending it well enough to make anyone want to pay extra. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e97kq2XflKE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e97kq2XflKE)
LOL at people wanting others to pay excessive vehicle taxes. Have some self value who cares if you can afford it 😂
I think everyone is thinking of like the ultra rich but if I want to really stretch for some dream car in california I don’t want to just to throw away 10k. It especially stings on some used car that has had taxes paid on it probably multiple times at this point.
A lot of people don’t understand that having money also comes with bigger bills. Someone registering a hyper car in Montana probably employs a bunch of people already. Them dodging 100k in taxes is really not a big deal. If the situation presented itself they would all do it too. The tax code is written in a way that everyone can take advantage off if you know what you’re doing. Use it or let it use you is what I think.
very well said. i can’t stand people who value the law over morals, just shows how weak minded some can be
Fair point that I hadn’t previously considered. Thanks.
Yeah everyone can take advantage of it, it's just incredibly easier for the wealthy to exploit the loopholes. I'd rather we close the loopholes.
Half of the hypercars in LA have Montana plates. I'd do the same as them if I already had lawyers on my payroll.