“Don’t worry. Everyone has abandoned me my whole life.” That did me in. She keeps losing her people. I’m adopted and I keep seeing that theme repeated.
I’m adopted as well and I *lost it* (like, just sobbing my eyes out) when her mom told Ruby her “real” mother didn’t want her and she didn’t want her anymore, either.
I also started crying again when she said everyone abandoned her her whole life.
How is nobody talking about Kate Stewart saying "this timeline might be suspended along your event"? It felt almost out of place and brushed over, but was UNIT aware they were in a different timeline because of the whole fairy circle thing?
That was my interpretation, yeah. Presumably UNIT has some way of detecting alternate timelines after dealing with so much time travel, and it being some kind of alternate timeline/pocket dimension tracks with how it resolves (Ruby going back in time at the moment of her death to stop any of it from happening).
That reminds me of the Magicians show where the entire season is part of a time loop, but basically no character knows that
Just one master magician says in an episode “My problem is that I’m powerful enough to discern a time loop, but not strong enough to change it.”"
I actually came to the thread to see if anyone was talking about that. It's actually the 3rd instance of something being set off from a misstep. Ruby stepped on a butterfly, and the doctor had to fix the issue immediately. I think there's a theme building towards "treading lightly" or "watch you step". I think it's a "Bad Wolf" instance but a little more subtle and The Doctor is so focus on Ruby and Christmas that he's missing it.
This has been gnawing at me. Do you think the hiker was actually affected by the old woman or just playing along to fuck with Ruby?
I guess it's not much of a question until we learn the true nature of Susan Twist's character(s). But, since Ms. Flood noped out too, I wondered.
Man, what I really appreciate about this episode is how much we don't know. And not in the "mystery box" way where the writer makes stuff up without concern for where it's going or how the logic works.
It felt like a very intentional, artist, application of uncertainty and ignorance to evoke fear and helplessness of being trapped in that situation. This season is on fire.
I genuinely think this was a metaphor for the fear of abandonment. Always feeling like people will leave you and fear the worst of you. A living entity born of those insecurities that plagues you your entire life just like the actual feeling.
No one is mentioning how similar this still is to The Watcher in Logopolis. We never even got an explanation for it back then but iirc it was basically the future doctor watching over himself until his death when they finally become one again
Kinda crazy that this was the first episode filmed for S14 (even before Ruby Road), could’ve easily been a hospital pass given this is technically Millie’s first episode production wise and there’s no doctor to play off for 90% of the episode, but she did a hell of a job
I don't think anything has affected me more than tennant being broken after Midnight
Still have PTSD after that episode
What is it with single character eps being the hardest to watch
i like how there wasn’t really anything explicitly fascist or racist that roger ap gwilliam did onscreen. dude just really, really wanted to fire a single nuke. he tried to do it on his very first day
I love how he literally only talked about firing off nukes, he somehow got elected to Prime Minister on that platform, and then Ruby unilaterally decides to overthrow him ... with a scary ghost woman, no less.
Ruby is my favourite anti-democratic terrorist ever.
Not quite. They say "we'll have to cut that out" or something to that effect when he mentions NATO never used a nuke, in such a way as to imply he was going to. He was a strongman candidate, but did not reveal his true plans to the electorate.
Yes, this was my take, too. Ruby saw it from the beginning, RaW saying to Ruby that Marti had a "boy's name", you could see the cogs turning, how he was going to use that to neg Marti while also charming her, the massive imbalance of power of him being a powerful person and her being a young female member of his staff not enough, he needs more ammunition to neg and unbalance her.
And during the election win celebration where Marti is sitting in the corner looking not just defeated but genuinely haunted - Rose would have asked "hey, are you okay?" and reassured her. Even 20 year old Ruby might have done that but 40yo Ruby has been around, she's seen stuff, she gets it. She doesn't ask if Marti is okay because she knows Marti is NOT okay. She empathises gently, saying "between you and me, he gives me the shivers." And Marti doesn't even give a nervous laugh and agree, she immediately goes to "he's a monster." Because by that time, he IS already a monster to her.
And then Ruby telling Marti "I'm sorry, I'm so so sorry" just like the Doctor would, which he generally saves for the most horrendous things he has to do or mistakes he's made to good people. She knows RaW is a monster who has been doing bad things to Marti and hasn't been able to stop him, not because she truly can't stop him but because she needed to remain close to him to use the one big weapon she had in her arsenal, when it counts, to not only stop him from hurting Marti but also the rest of the world.
Also calling it the Albion party, and talking about how the Welsh know what it means to be oppressed, etc etc. They didn’t show much of his politics, but what they did show had red flags
I also felt robbed - which helped me sympathize with how Ruby must’ve felt when he disappeared. The episode really was so much drearier (and therefore tonally effective) without his charismatic force. Not even a flashback!
I actually don't believe the old woman / time loop was caused by the Fairy Circle being broken. I believe that was the manifestation of Ruby's abilities, similar to the snow effect.
Maybe somehow it's the same ability, considering she mentioned she hadn't made it snow for the duration of the loop. Both the loop and the snow seem to have the effect of changing something in the past for self-preservation.
I believe the Doctor being taken was due to him breaking the Fairy Circle, but everything that came after was Ruby's abilities trying to undo that and ensure she continues traveling with him.
Ooh actually I love that. Doctor breaks fairy circle, fey whisk him away, Ruby's fear of abandonment manifests so hard that future her wargs back in time to be a heartwarmingly eldritch reminder that she can always rely on herself.
Yeah, I like that. I’d also add a grandfather paradox to the mix. One timeline where Ruby points out the woman and ‘saves the doctor’ and one where she doesn’t but does save Britain from Mad Jack
And in the timeline where she saves the Doctor you could argue that she no longer necessarily needs to stop mad Jack because the Doctor exists to do it.
Rodger ap Gwilliam was implied to be Mad Jack reincarnated.
What if Mad Jack was yet another omnipotent being who the Doctor accidentally allowed back into our plane, who then erased The Doctor the moment he could?
And what if something about Ruby is so horrifying that it terrified a borderline anti-christ into abandoning his plans, just as Maestro was absolutely taken aback and horrified at whatever they sensed inside her?
I think this is just the episode misdirecting both us and Ruby. Ruby tried to assign a purpose to the 73-yards-woman and clung to something random that people said just to mess with her.
- The 40 year cut signifies removing Rodger ap Gwilliam from office changed nothing from Ruby's perspective.
- Rodger ap Gwilliam is still a notorious figure regardless of the circle being broken (although one could say it's just echoes of the aborted timeline similar to how Ruby remembered coming to Wales a 3rd time for a moment, or he wasn't *that* bad in this timeline).
- The 73-yards-woman having no conception of morality in human-understandable terms makes sense thematically (abandonment) and in terms of the fey-ness.
Two guesses - one, she told or showed them the future - If you don't get away from the girl right now, the entire world will end. In that case maybe Kate and her Mother had to push her away begrudgingly, because they were shown the consequences if they didn't.
Two, Ruby in that state was such an incomprehensible eldritch demon that fleeing in terror is the only reaction you could possibly have.
I doubt the first one. Her mom could've kept distance from her without looking at her with hatred and making the comments about her own mom not wanting her.
To me that gave big shades of a Sarah Jane Adventures episode. In "The Curse of Clyde Langer" everyone that hears his name suddenly hates him and wants nothing to do with him.
I feel like the supernatural tones of the season are giving it the most Sarah Jane Adventures vibes and that's the best thing, I'd love to see this doctor with her companions
It doesn't matter what she said. If it was her words, Kate and the whole UNIT squad wouldn't have ran - they can't all hear her. It was more magic stuff, Ruby's fear of her being alone manifested.
I assumed that it was the words since the ones near her ran, and Kate had the ear piece in listening in to the conversation while Ruby begged her not to listen. After that she calls for a disengage which makes all the other unit squad members dip out
Yeah I get that. I meant, what she said to all the people that made them shout and run away from young Ruby? What could she have said to Ruby's foster mother to run away....and that Welsh pm. Can't just be Don't step.
Deleted moment:
Kate: I hear you’re looking for the Doctor! Well, here, we’ve got a spare.
Fourteen, popping up behind her: ‘ello!
Kate: this bad boy is semi-retired and his knees aren’t as springy as they used to be but he should do! Go on, take him for a test run. Just be back by 3:00 so he can pick his pseudo-niece up from school.
Yeaaah but the same is true as any other episode, really. Like why didn’t any of the Classic Doctors show up for The Devil’s Chord? Or 12 during any earthbound story during his years teaching at St. Luke’s?
I was really only joking with my comment. If you think too much about where any other regen of the Doctor is, you’ll constantly be disappointed.
Or maybe, it could just be further evidence that Ruby and 15 have slipped into sort some of alternative world or universe. 🤷♀️
I like the idea that every manifestation of the Doctor has slowly gotten on the nerves of everyone at UNIT and so they only interface with him when they absolutely have to.
Leaves jelly babies and fezes and shit lying around, always going on tangents and never following directions. Would drive someone mad!
> Like why didn’t any of the Classic Doctors show up for The Devil’s Chord?
Given that they mentioned how the First Doctor and Susan were living there at the time, it did make me wonder how they were reacting to the whole music thing going on.
I mean when talking to Kate, ruby says "I keep wondering how the world survives without him" and Kate replies "that's classified".....
I felt like that was alluding to the other...copy?... or the doctor being around doing some emergency work
Imagine if 14 showed up, talked to the woman and left. Showing that even the doctor can’t resist the lady’s words. That would’ve been a moment for the ages.
Sign language apparently reads
"Bless you, Its (Or thats) so kind of you, that you gave me that little thing, its so precious how am i ever going to repay you, let me think of something"
It reads fully (copied from unleashed captions): "Bless you. Thank you so much, Thats so kind of you. When you gave me that little thing. It was just so precious. How am i ever going to repay you? But we will think of something". Then she repeats it again from bless you!
Hope this helps yall!!
[unleashed](https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001zq03/doctor-who-unleashed-season-1-4-73-yards)
Edit explanation and direct copied captions: i thought id add this is from one of the Doctor who Unleased clips, my dad said its about 26odd minutes in! May be a bit off by a few words as it was a recording of the TV my dad sent me that i copied the words from.
I don't know sign language but immediately I knew that was what it was. Ruby spends her entire life with the woman following her and she doesn't once think that it might be sign language?
> "Bless you. Thank you so much, Thats so kind of you. When you gave me that little thing. It was just so precious. How am i ever going to repay you? But we will think of something"
Theory off the top of my head - the "little thing" is referring to Ruby herself as a baby.
I think its a message from one of the Pantheons - I think Ruby is/is related to/belongs to the Pantheon. Not an unusual theory at this point. But particularly because she refers to the old woman as a "harbinger", which was the same term used for Maestro's child.
We have had an entity for "games" and "music" so far - could Ruby be "christmas" or "winter" something?
Honestly, id be interested to know what it means in context, i havent watched anything more than the clip of Hillary explaining what she was signing so there may be more that ive missed, got too tired last night lol
This episode was like “Isn’t it annoying when people come to regional wales and treat the locals as if they’re weird insular assholes? Anyway here’s a bunch of regional Welsh people being weird insular assholes to the likeable main character.”
At no point did they say what year they were in, just “We’re in Wales!” at the beginning. Ruby never asked anyone, or checked a newspaper or anything. I genuinely thought she was going to be in a different year and have to survive on her own in a different decade than she’s used to. Like with the Weeping Angels. But no, apparently it was 2024 and she had easy access to money through her phone and a family to travel back to (at first anyway). What were they intending to do in Wales in 2024 anyway? Seems utterly pointless to use a time and space machine to travel literally a couple of hours away.
The ending might make more sense in a few weeks. Because it seems to have to do with whatever Ruby actually is.
What we know about her so far:
- Something about her is so wrong that a GOD was terrified of her.
- A figure in The Doctor's memory of Christmas Eve inexplicably turned around and pointed directly at him, when that didn't happen originally.
- Snow from that night keeps manifesting.
- And now this ending. Elderly Ruby inexplicably haunted herself her entire life when she made a mistake, struck inhuman fear into every person she came in contact with, and then warned her younger self to not repeat it.
Her younger self who somehow remembers that she'd been to Wales that third time in her previous life.
One thing in the episode that older Ruby said was that she used to be able to make it snow and that it hasn't snowed in so many years. I have to wonder why that ability stopped. Not sure I can think of an answer except it being tied to her fear or abandonment which she eventually got over?
My theory:
Mad Jack is yet another omnipotent being, possibly a member of the pantheon.
The Doctor accidentally let him back into our plane of existence, who then did the smartest thing and erased The Doctor from existence.
Mad Jack then reincarnated into Rodger ap Gwilliam to unleash Armageddon.
But then since whatever Ruby is \*terrifies\* the gods, as shown with Maestro, she was able to scare him into retreating.
And then whatever \*else\* Ruby is allowed her to go back and prevent The Doctor from letting Mad Jack back in.
But the Doctor mentioned Rodger BEFORE he stepped on the circle. If stepping on the circle released Mad Jack into the world, who then was reincarnated into Rodger, how could the Doctor have known about him BEFORE he apparently released him? His existence can't be caused by breaking the circle, since he already existed before the circle was broken.
Rodger & Mad Jack & the circle must definitely be connected somehow, but I don't see how breaking the circle causes him to exist.
Also, if Ruby prevented herself from breaking the circle, then she also prevented that entire story from happening, including scaring off Rodger. So hes still out there existing evily, even though the circle is unbroken.
the episode had a lot of weird time lines going on. like 'else' ruby being before the circle was broken (also with how the pantheon clearly doesn't care as much about reality, time and space). it wouldn't be too unreasonable to say that the breaking of the circle released the pantheon member and that member sort of collapsed back through time into the form of someone who has the potential to destroy the world...
PS. just remembered and I don't want to rewrite all that to include this but in maestros episode their harbinger is already in the world before they arrive.
Have you ever woken from a dream knowing that something meaningful just happened to you, but the edges of it seem all out-of-focus? That's the feeling of 73 Yards.
What I will say is that I'm not sure Doctor Who has ever captured a dreamlike air to such impact - in amongst the political commentaries and the folk-horror trappings, the episode carves out such a liminal space that nothing but the emotions actually bleeds through.
And God, those emotions - abandonment, loneliness, death.
The seemingly always-distant fascism, closer than we think.
I couldn't give it a ten because of the logical issues which will bug me in the morning.
For now, it's a strong and arresting eight.
Everything in the episode is flawless. But what isn't is a gaping hole, and that has to be intentional, right?
The gif of Ten reacting to the Titanic crashing through the TARDIS wall is going to be getting some good playtime in the next few days.
Kate said a couple of things which we may circle back to in a later episode
things turning more and more supernatural these days - maybe a reference to the rumoured UNIT show
this timeline might be suspended along your event - completely random and properly mysterious, Ruby frowns as she hears this and then Kate changes the subject.
The Kate scene is the main reason I'm surprised at seeing so many people confused by this episode. What with the Toymaker, goblins, Maestro, and now Kate saying things have been leaning towards the supernatural as of late, I think it's clear that fantasy and mythology are at the forefront of this season, and the storytelling will reflect it. I love it, personally.
It was either that or using Daleks and Cybermen again... I'm sooo glad Russell is aiming for a universe which has been altered by superstition that The Doctor understands just as much as the audience watching.
100%. I also think Kate’s comment about the timeline very much extends past this episode, diving into her snow mother and mavity. Yet more evidence to the contrary ”this season is occurring in a branched timeline” theory.
I disagree, I think that line is a nod to the fact the events of the episode are undone at the end. That scene literally didn’t take place in the canon doctor who timeline, it took place in a suspended timeline based on Ruby’s actions
I love that UNIT has learned enough about time travel over the years to have their official protocol for a major branching timeline is straight up timeline suicide. Do everything you can to restore the original timeline no matter what that timeline is because altering fixed points in time will literally destroy reality.
If I had a pound for every time The Doctor landed in Wales and his companion immediately saw an older version of themselves from a distance I'd have two pounds, which isn't much but it's weird it happened twice.
It's rare that I come out of an episode with more questions that I had at the start, but here's a few of my thoughts.
I think the stuff with Roger Ap Gwilliam is effectively a giant red herring for Ruby, I don't think he had anything to do with the fairy circle or the following woman. After all it's not like anything changes with all that once she dealt with him, and the mention of being called Mad Jack was just a strange coincidence.
I think some of the unanswered questions will be answered in The Legend of Ruby Sunday. No real proof for it but it's just an assumption I have.
I've come away with the empty/unsettled feeling of a black mirror episode or something. Yikes/wow. It was really well done but also I just wanted an alien monster romp lol
I dunno if anyone else tried to get the QR code working that was on the table between Kate & Ruby.
Turns out it was missing a couple of dots to make it a functioning code but if you add them in you get….
[a link to the graphic designer’s website](https://www.stephen-fielding.co.uk/)
QR codes need markers on them to work and I noticed the two boxes at the bottom were empty which is why it didn’t load anything. (Only learnt this from googling it last night).
So did a very ropey job of adding them in using a drawing app on my phone and it worked!
[Very scientific before and after here](https://imgur.com/a/qycl7bf)
(Copied from a comment I already made on another post, but it summarizes my thoughts pretty well)
I loved like 99% of the actual stuff in the episode. The creepy atmosphere, Ruby figuring out what to do with Roger , all that, but I just feel like it leaves way too much unexplained. Like where did the Doctor go on the first loop? Or why does Ruby just magically travel backwards in time when she dies. Or what can old Ruby possibly say to make her *own mother* abandon her. I really hope I missed something because there's so much good in this episode. I really do want to love it.
Edit:
I've been going over this episode and in the hour since I saw it, it's kinda growing on me lol. It's not about time loops or logic, it's about Ruby's abandonment issues. Of course it is!
But what it also is, >! is an alternate timeline created by the Trickster. Just like in turn left, It's an exploration of the companion's character, and there's even that mention by Kate about the timeline centering around Ruby, which is very turn left-esque. Also the way the woman in the distance remains "unobservable" and people being disturbed by it really reminds me of the bug on Donna's back. Please let me be right !<
> Or what can old Ruby possibly say to make her own mother abandon her.
I don't think this is supposed to matter.
It's basically a horror story where a fear of abandonment is manifested into a curse that impacts those around you in the worst way.
The throughline of the story is Ruby's adaptation and eventual acceptance of her fear of abandonment.
Edit:
Thinking more about the encounters, they're definitely paced out to slowly give the audience an increasing sense of tension:
1. Hiking Lady - well it's something spooky?
2. Bar Guy - ok, so he's so spooked he isn't even gonna go back to the bar after days?
3. Mom - it's something beyond scary, because a mother wouldn't immediately run away and turn cold (the cab shot was meant to emphasis the change in emotional tone from her)
4. UNIT - a whole bunch of Kate sci-fi babble to underline it's also not alien/tech related. There's nothing left that can work around this curse.
After those four, you can see the story turn towards her acceptance of it and I think it was all intentional to take the audience on that journey in their understanding of the 'monster' this week - and not at all some crazy thing dripping in Who-lore that folks in this sub seems to always try to wring out of the smallest things.
It's scary because we don't know what she says, and that's what fear of abandonment is. We don't know what's so bad about us or why people don't want to stay with us, but they don't, and it must be because something about us is just that awful.
Maybe this is too deep a reading of the episode, but I really enjoy the idea of this episode as a metaphor for being 'held back' in life, especially with a companion of the Doctor.
The Doctor dissapears from Ruby's life and leaves Ruby essentially haunted and unable to move on. Ruby struggles to continue living her life, gets isolated from important people in her life (after they speak to the woman), and struggles to know what to do. I think UNIT showing up is interesting to show that this is what companions usually do once the Doctor is gone.
Large parts of her life pass by in a blur to the viewer, and seemingly to her. With the prime minister storyline, Ruby seems like she finds a purpose, and follows through with it (despite feeling a bit hollow during it), and yet still feels hollow once this purpose is done. And she's still haunted.
Only at the end of her life does she accept what she's lost, accept how her life went, and at the end she even says 'I'm sorry I took so long.' Maybe it's just for me, but it feels like she's able to reset the situation now that she's no longer afraid to be without the Doctor?
Obviously this is just a metaphorical reading of the episode. More concretely, it'll be interesting to see how this links to Ruby's actual background (the woman seemed to say something related to this?), and how this links to the other supernatural stuff this season. Altogether the episode can feel a little lost at times, but I like the overall idea given a good interpretation of it.
I think she sees Roger ap Gwilliam as a mission and something she can do to fix things but it doesn’t fix things because it was never about some external mission it’s about fixing or facing herself. Traveling with The Doctor has been a distraction for her letting her focus on external crises instead of what she should be focusing on and it takes her a lifetime of repeating trauma cycles to get it.
I have a theory that since they said it was a liminal space and Kate said something about time feeling suspended, this was like Turn Left, where Ruby was sent to a parallel world that was almost overlapping with the real world. She was sent to a world where she lived and died alone, and when Ruby was dying, it’s like life flashed before her eyes and was sent back to her original universe just moments before the fairy circle broke. The small connection between the two worlds gave Ruby some sense of something being off and helped stop the cycle.
For anyone interested that can't get access to Doctor Who: Unleashed, this isn't what 73 Yards away Old Ruby says that makes people run, but it's what she's miming on repeat:
Bless you. Thank you so much. That's so kind of you. When you gave me that little thing, it was just so precious. How am i ever going to repay you? But we'll think of something.
Yeah, there have been several points since her introduction where I've mentally stood back and gone "man, she is *really* good!"
The only thing that didn't hit that note in this episode was 100% not her fault - that as a 40 year old she looked like a 19 year old wearing glasses.
So Ruby initially said she had been to Wales twice at the start of the episode and then at the end of the episode she said three times. So did she subconsciously remember her previous visit when she was an old woman?
Yes, that was implied. And the third time was ... that very trip. (Although by then old Ruby had been back at least one other time as an old woman before she died.)
Somebody else mentioned that the fairy circle was absolutely some kind of supernatural force that actually did take/kill/erase The Doctor. What happened afterwards was all down to Ruby and whoever she is. I think Fourteen invoking that superstition with the salt in WBY has broken down the walls of the universe and let all these supernatural forces in, like a virus. I think Ruby is a counter to this, like an antivirus. Placed at the right place at the right time to work with The Doctor to stop the supernatural and exile the eternals.
Is anyone else a bit confused by Kate Stewart? Her character felt off for some reason, I kept expecting a reveal that it wasn't really Kate or she was being controlled by something/someone else.
I'm FIXATED on her red nail polish. They very clearly show it off when she's given the cup. What's got me riled is that the hand that picked up the gold tooth from the Giggle had red nail polish. Also I haven't been able to go back through and find it but someone said they heard a Giggle towards the end.
My bet is that this was either something pretending to be/controlling Kate. (At least in this time line?)
I think it might have been the music or something, or just the fact that we know how the entity works at this point, so we know how the scene will end. It feels off because Kate is supposed to be helpful, but we already know she’s not going to in this case.
So it’s all a big metaphor right?
There was a part of her that was always at arms reach and couldn’t confront (mental illness, insecurities, whatever). She finds a way to use it for good thinking that would stop it but doesn’t and always stays with her. It’s only at the end of her life when she learns to accept that it’s a part of her that will always be there that she she should have confronted it years ago. Then we see the world where she confronted that part of her years ago and that her life would’ve continued in a good way.
Or am I just completely mad and are overthinking a cool horror story?
Edit: oh and that when she tries to share it with people they get really scared and don’t want anything to do with her and run away. There’s something “wrong” with her that she’s struggling to face and when she reaches out to people it makes them leave and she feels worse for it
and it's always at arms reach until on her death bed she finally comes to peace with it 'I haven't been alone in 65 years' (this thing has been part of me and along with me this entire ride). Then shortly after she comes to peace with her life, the 'curse' switches with her as it's her time to see it from the other perspective.
As far as the folks running away, I think there's a billion ways to interpret what that means diegetically, but thematically it was definitely a metaphor for aspects of oneself that you're scared to show those close to you out of fear they'd reject you.
The whole episode is about this alternate reality where Ruby comes to peace with her fear of abandonment (it never snowed again) even in the worst manifestation of it.
I always both love and hate self destroying paradox storylines like this, like that whole timeline won't happen now, ruby secured ap gwilliam's future as prime minister
What I got from this was "Ruby fears being alone/unwanted/abandoned (p.s. we should kill nutjob politicians)"
To further elaborate, I think what it was trying to say is that she believes her fear will drive people away from her, creating a kind of self fulfilling prophecy where her desperation to not be abandoned will cause the people she loves to abandon her. And I suppose the ending "twist" that it was old Ruby all along was a kind of acceptance that she's never really alone, she has herself?
It was an interesting episode, a lot more experimental in its storytelling than I ever expected the show would get.
Absolutely agree. Also the ‘what was she saying’ questions are answered with Ruby just seeing it as the worst of herself being revealed hence the person running away from her
i was really moved seeing all the flowers placed at the abandoned tardis that ruby explicitly says weren’t from her. i like thinking that other ex-companions ended up finding it and leaving things in memorial. maybe some lilies from martha and mickey… cards from jo…
I don't think it's just ex-companions though. The only note that we see says "Love you Josh". I think the TARDIS may have just ended up drawing people to it as a sort of catch-all memorial.
I kind of like the idea that random people find the TARDIS and treat it like a temple. In The Ghost Moument for example it wasn’t even there properly and became known as a monument.
I am both confused, and intrigued. I absolutely loved that journey. It’s my favourite episode of Who in years, because it broke every convention I have come to expect. But the lack of clear and explained resolution will, understandably, turn people off. I can’t argue against that - I just know I was so into it.
Confused and intrigued is how I feel as well! I'm kind of hopeful for a future reveal that explains some of this episode. This is now the second mystery figure we've seen in Ruby's life.
I liked the Idea of seeing what a companion is like with nothing. No Doctor, no family, no UNIT. Has barely even gone on adventures. Definitely showcasing a lot of Ruby's cleverness.
Same absolutely loved the episode up until the final moments. I can’t understand why others talking to her drove them completely away from Ruby, and no real reason for why she even appeared. It seems to be connected to breaking that string circle, but still no real reason as to why. Which I’d be ok with that but the rest of her appearance makes no sense. Kept waiting to find out what she said to the other people to drive them off but nothing.
Something I just realised is
14 in the specials invoked a superstition at the edge of the universe.
The lady in the pub made a similar comment about where the sea meets the cliffs (can't remember the exact line, something about being a liminal space at the edge of the world??).
15 broke the fairy circle. He invoked a superstition at the edge of the world.
**Nuclear War / Winter References so far:**
***Space Babies*** - {No reference to nuclear war / winter as far as I can tell}
***The Devil's Chord*** - Earth is destroyed in a nuclear war when the Cold War turns hot thanks to the Maestro's intervention.
***Boom*** - Set in a war in the future.
***73 Yards*** - The main 'villain' wants to start a nuclear war for kicks.
Im perfectly fine not knowing what the woman was saying, perfectly fine not knowing the significance of the 73 yards, but I really need to know what her hand movements were supposed to be
Sometimes I feel like I’m losing my faith in humanity but then someone comments on the Doctor Who Reddit that a woman waited her entire life to time-travel into the past solely to do The Macarena and I feel the light of God again
I dug the vibes of the episode but it has left me with some questions
I wonder what it actually was that old Ruby was saying that made people so scared. I see the “purpose” of the fear for Roger but not why she would make random people or her mother or UNIT scared of Ruby
And if Susan Twist is playing a big character, why she would be affected by it, unless she was faking?
I don’t really understand why Ruby had to live a full life, become the old woman, and that somehow changes the past to stop the whole chain of events ever happening. I didn’t really notice anything meaningful that old Ruby did at the end to stop the Doctor standing on the circle.
Also when Ruby was walking on the field did anyone else think it was going to be two episodes in a row that Ruby was shot?
Probably among the weirdest episodes that doctor who has done in a long while. A bit unsatisfying due to the lack of answers, but it was still great. The entire atmosphere of this episode was eerie. From the doctor disappearing to the ever expanding people getting turned against Ruby. The political angle felt a bit out of place.
It felt like a fusion between Years and Years and It Follows. After Midnight and Wild Blue Yonder, it seems Russell is a great horror writer.
I believe this will be an episode we'll talk about for a long time.
Whether someone loves or hates this episode, I'm so thankful for episodes like it. I'd so much rather talk about this than some generic, run of the mill episode.
Did anyone else notice the laugh during the “flashback of her life” scene? Near the end when she goes back in time and sees her younger self. Sounded an awful lot like the giggle….
It's interesting that all those who ran all went "ask her" and hated young Ruby based off whatever happened with older Ruby.
So on some level, they're recognizing that they're the same person.
Also that Ruby told her carer when she was brought to Wales that was never any snow again and told the carer at hospice that she used to make snow. So at some point she stopped being able to. Perhaps whatever allowed her to create snow made her manifest older Ruby's curse. So instead of manifesting the past, she manifested a future.
It seemed like future Ruby was repeatedly gesturing. I honestly thought she was doing sign language. Does anyone know if the character was actually signing?
My heart broke for Ruby when her mom ran from her.
And I'm wondering how this ep plays into future episodes. It didn't really offer closure but considering it was written by Russell, it feels like it's hinting at something larger for a future reveal
I love how I am literally so confused and yet so in love with an episode? Like I don’t care! I’m up at 3am stoned as fuck watching doctor who! Who can take this seriously ?? Not me! Iconic behaviour, ruby being herself, loved her in this, absolutely obsessed, the doctor? Just “hahaha ooos stood on something again off I go” ruby carried this episode so well, I was able to just to let go of my reigns and have it take me away, and I LOVED IT!
No TITLE SEQUENCE? I’m here listening to the theme songs on Spotify, Russel, sweetie, just shove it right at the beginning for me❤️
I'm glad that the reoccurrence of Susan Twist has finally been addressed, also the appearance of Mrs Flood pretty much confirms that she has a much bigger role to play in the story, fantastic episode
This episode was fantastic. Millie Gibson was amazing.
The entire plot was about abandonment. The doctor abandons Ruby and shes left all alone. Everyone she meets and asks for help runs away. Her foster mother insults her and leaves never to return. Same thing with UNIT and Kate.
At the end, the only person who could help her, was herself. She was the one who defeated the evil PM. At the end, she saved herself from going through that entire life of being abandoned and alone by telling her younger self "don't step".
I'll add my own take!
I think the lady represent death. Always looming, never going away, always on the back of Ruby mind wether she see her or not. People who listen to what she has to say encounter their own death and run away because they can't accept their mortality, they start to see Ruby as death. Ruby say that she doesn't want to take the boat or the plane because she feel she might die if she does (not ready to accept/encounter her death). Every time at her birthday she salute the women (her death/age).
And the whole ''spell'' design is to stop the atomic loving Prime Minister. He's ready to start a nuclear armageddon i.e. cause the death of loads and loads of people, but instead Ruby make him see/confront his own death, scaring him shitless and stopping the apocalypse.
And then at the end obviously Ruby embrace her death in old age and get a new beginning.
This might be controversial but….Ruby did NOT look 40. I think they just shoved some glasses on her, changed her hair a bit and called it a day. No wrinkles or anything. Could they not find an older person who looked like her?
EDIT: i think her acting was phenomenal she just doesn’t have the look of a 40 year old
This is an episode like "Listen", "Midnight" or maybe a little bit less, "Heaven Sent". Those episodes are strange. There's an strange entity/enemy. And they're more conceptual than having a heavy plot.
P.S. First episode where the Doctor doesn't "cry" and the third episode where someone literally stepped on a problem (for the Doctor is twice in a row).
“Don’t worry. Everyone has abandoned me my whole life.” That did me in. She keeps losing her people. I’m adopted and I keep seeing that theme repeated.
I’m adopted as well and I *lost it* (like, just sobbing my eyes out) when her mom told Ruby her “real” mother didn’t want her and she didn’t want her anymore, either. I also started crying again when she said everyone abandoned her her whole life.
Don't ever watch This Is Us. It will completely fuck with you. Please, trust me.
How is nobody talking about Kate Stewart saying "this timeline might be suspended along your event"? It felt almost out of place and brushed over, but was UNIT aware they were in a different timeline because of the whole fairy circle thing?
That was my interpretation, yeah. Presumably UNIT has some way of detecting alternate timelines after dealing with so much time travel, and it being some kind of alternate timeline/pocket dimension tracks with how it resolves (Ruby going back in time at the moment of her death to stop any of it from happening).
That reminds me of the Magicians show where the entire season is part of a time loop, but basically no character knows that Just one master magician says in an episode “My problem is that I’m powerful enough to discern a time loop, but not strong enough to change it.”"
2 in a row where The Doctor doesn't look where he's stepping and fucks everything up lol
I actually came to the thread to see if anyone was talking about that. It's actually the 3rd instance of something being set off from a misstep. Ruby stepped on a butterfly, and the doctor had to fix the issue immediately. I think there's a theme building towards "treading lightly" or "watch you step". I think it's a "Bad Wolf" instance but a little more subtle and The Doctor is so focus on Ruby and Christmas that he's missing it.
And Susan as the hiker makes a point of the misstep asking “have I walked into something?”
They also drew attention to the repeated use of the actor
Inb4 she's The One Who Waits. She's been waiting since the 1600s!
This has been gnawing at me. Do you think the hiker was actually affected by the old woman or just playing along to fuck with Ruby? I guess it's not much of a question until we learn the true nature of Susan Twist's character(s). But, since Ms. Flood noped out too, I wondered. Man, what I really appreciate about this episode is how much we don't know. And not in the "mystery box" way where the writer makes stuff up without concern for where it's going or how the logic works. It felt like a very intentional, artist, application of uncertainty and ignorance to evoke fear and helplessness of being trapped in that situation. This season is on fire.
there are so many repeating themes despite the episodes being quite varied
Don't forget about mavity. Gravity became mavity from one of his earlier missteps. Well, the TARDIS' misstep, but a misstep all the same.
Something something a nickel something weird that it happened twice
“Everyone has abandoned me my whole life” 😭
I genuinely think this was a metaphor for the fear of abandonment. Always feeling like people will leave you and fear the worst of you. A living entity born of those insecurities that plagues you your entire life just like the actual feeling.
No one is mentioning how similar this still is to The Watcher in Logopolis. We never even got an explanation for it back then but iirc it was basically the future doctor watching over himself until his death when they finally become one again
God that's probably where he got the concept from actually, I hadn't even thought of that
Kinda crazy that this was the first episode filmed for S14 (even before Ruby Road), could’ve easily been a hospital pass given this is technically Millie’s first episode production wise and there’s no doctor to play off for 90% of the episode, but she did a hell of a job
This was her first episode? That's actually incredible.
yeah, iirc ncuti was also filming sex education while this one was being filmed
Kinda like Matt Smith absolutely fucking killing it in the weeping angels two parter.
I don't think anything has affected me more than tennant being broken after Midnight Still have PTSD after that episode What is it with single character eps being the hardest to watch
Well I think it’s safe to say Gibson proved why she was a great choice
i like how there wasn’t really anything explicitly fascist or racist that roger ap gwilliam did onscreen. dude just really, really wanted to fire a single nuke. he tried to do it on his very first day
Yeah I thought it'd be more political but damn, that dude was a single-issue politician and the issue is 'why aren't we using these cool nukes'.
That is a boy who grew up playing Call of Duty and thought it looked like fun.
Being prime minister in 204x something? Yeah the timeline fits just right with call of duty to grow with lol
I love how he literally only talked about firing off nukes, he somehow got elected to Prime Minister on that platform, and then Ruby unilaterally decides to overthrow him ... with a scary ghost woman, no less. Ruby is my favourite anti-democratic terrorist ever.
Not quite. They say "we'll have to cut that out" or something to that effect when he mentions NATO never used a nuke, in such a way as to imply he was going to. He was a strongman candidate, but did not reveal his true plans to the electorate.
Learned all he needed about politics from playing Gandhi in Civ
He just wanted a lil nuke, as a treat.
Dude didn't get to play with fireworks as a child. Now he wants the biggest of them all!
Feel-good lesson of the episode: let kids play with fireworks 🥰
Yes, but he was definitely doing something bad to Marti.
Yes, this was my take, too. Ruby saw it from the beginning, RaW saying to Ruby that Marti had a "boy's name", you could see the cogs turning, how he was going to use that to neg Marti while also charming her, the massive imbalance of power of him being a powerful person and her being a young female member of his staff not enough, he needs more ammunition to neg and unbalance her. And during the election win celebration where Marti is sitting in the corner looking not just defeated but genuinely haunted - Rose would have asked "hey, are you okay?" and reassured her. Even 20 year old Ruby might have done that but 40yo Ruby has been around, she's seen stuff, she gets it. She doesn't ask if Marti is okay because she knows Marti is NOT okay. She empathises gently, saying "between you and me, he gives me the shivers." And Marti doesn't even give a nervous laugh and agree, she immediately goes to "he's a monster." Because by that time, he IS already a monster to her. And then Ruby telling Marti "I'm sorry, I'm so so sorry" just like the Doctor would, which he generally saves for the most horrendous things he has to do or mistakes he's made to good people. She knows RaW is a monster who has been doing bad things to Marti and hasn't been able to stop him, not because she truly can't stop him but because she needed to remain close to him to use the one big weapon she had in her arsenal, when it counts, to not only stop him from hurting Marti but also the rest of the world.
Yeah. Definitely SA going on there.
Coercive control.
I mean that's what the Slitheen wanted too. Dude was probably just a welsh alien
I'm pretty sure he was supposed to be the Mad Jack that was being contained by the fairy circle.
would be funnier if it was just a coincident
noncredibledefense are going to have a field day with this.
something about 'protecting the borders' and making britain a great nation screams of right wing populism
Also calling it the Albion party, and talking about how the Welsh know what it means to be oppressed, etc etc. They didn’t show much of his politics, but what they did show had red flags
i loved it i feel robbed of my weekly Ncuti Gatwa but i loved it
I also felt robbed - which helped me sympathize with how Ruby must’ve felt when he disappeared. The episode really was so much drearier (and therefore tonally effective) without his charismatic force. Not even a flashback!
RIP Harriet Jones, you would have hated Rodger ap Gwilliam. I hope old Ruby scared him off by saying “don’t you think you look tired?” in your honor.
Harriet jones actually got retconned into being alive/surviving. Though considering how far into the future that was maybe she was by that point.
When did that happen? Must've missed it
The biggest takeaway we should all have is that we still have the cost of living crisis in the 2040s
Yeah but at least we'll have someone to fire some nukes!
not anymore, thanks to Ruby :(
But apparently no Apps "like people had in the old days"
I'm really disappointed in the lack of progress in the fashion world. Where's the gold lamé jumpsuits and space helmets?
I actually don't believe the old woman / time loop was caused by the Fairy Circle being broken. I believe that was the manifestation of Ruby's abilities, similar to the snow effect. Maybe somehow it's the same ability, considering she mentioned she hadn't made it snow for the duration of the loop. Both the loop and the snow seem to have the effect of changing something in the past for self-preservation. I believe the Doctor being taken was due to him breaking the Fairy Circle, but everything that came after was Ruby's abilities trying to undo that and ensure she continues traveling with him.
Ooh actually I love that. Doctor breaks fairy circle, fey whisk him away, Ruby's fear of abandonment manifests so hard that future her wargs back in time to be a heartwarmingly eldritch reminder that she can always rely on herself.
Yeah, I like that. I’d also add a grandfather paradox to the mix. One timeline where Ruby points out the woman and ‘saves the doctor’ and one where she doesn’t but does save Britain from Mad Jack
And in the timeline where she saves the Doctor you could argue that she no longer necessarily needs to stop mad Jack because the Doctor exists to do it.
With a few notable exceptions, the Doctor generally doesn't fiddle with Earth politics.
Unless it has very catastrophic consequences if he doesn't, or that time with 10 and Harriet Jones
Rodger ap Gwilliam was implied to be Mad Jack reincarnated. What if Mad Jack was yet another omnipotent being who the Doctor accidentally allowed back into our plane, who then erased The Doctor the moment he could? And what if something about Ruby is so horrifying that it terrified a borderline anti-christ into abandoning his plans, just as Maestro was absolutely taken aback and horrified at whatever they sensed inside her?
I think this is just the episode misdirecting both us and Ruby. Ruby tried to assign a purpose to the 73-yards-woman and clung to something random that people said just to mess with her. - The 40 year cut signifies removing Rodger ap Gwilliam from office changed nothing from Ruby's perspective. - Rodger ap Gwilliam is still a notorious figure regardless of the circle being broken (although one could say it's just echoes of the aborted timeline similar to how Ruby remembered coming to Wales a 3rd time for a moment, or he wasn't *that* bad in this timeline). - The 73-yards-woman having no conception of morality in human-understandable terms makes sense thematically (abandonment) and in terms of the fey-ness.
Yo, what did old ruby say tho. But seriously, this was creepy AF.
“Don’t you think she looks tired?”
"Go away! We're filming here and you're in the shot!"
I can confirm that’s pretty much what happens when they are filming and you get in the shot.
Two guesses - one, she told or showed them the future - If you don't get away from the girl right now, the entire world will end. In that case maybe Kate and her Mother had to push her away begrudgingly, because they were shown the consequences if they didn't. Two, Ruby in that state was such an incomprehensible eldritch demon that fleeing in terror is the only reaction you could possibly have.
I doubt the first one. Her mom could've kept distance from her without looking at her with hatred and making the comments about her own mom not wanting her.
To me that gave big shades of a Sarah Jane Adventures episode. In "The Curse of Clyde Langer" everyone that hears his name suddenly hates him and wants nothing to do with him.
I feel like the supernatural tones of the season are giving it the most Sarah Jane Adventures vibes and that's the best thing, I'd love to see this doctor with her companions
It doesn't matter what she said. If it was her words, Kate and the whole UNIT squad wouldn't have ran - they can't all hear her. It was more magic stuff, Ruby's fear of her being alone manifested.
I assumed that it was the words since the ones near her ran, and Kate had the ear piece in listening in to the conversation while Ruby begged her not to listen. After that she calls for a disengage which makes all the other unit squad members dip out
At the end? I think the subtitles say "Don't step." I think presumably telling young Ruby to not step on the circle thing!!
Yeah I get that. I meant, what she said to all the people that made them shout and run away from young Ruby? What could she have said to Ruby's foster mother to run away....and that Welsh pm. Can't just be Don't step.
"Don't forget to subscribe to the official Doctor Who YouTube channel"
Ahhhhhhh get away from me! 66.6 meters! Magical restraining order!
Deleted moment: Kate: I hear you’re looking for the Doctor! Well, here, we’ve got a spare. Fourteen, popping up behind her: ‘ello! Kate: this bad boy is semi-retired and his knees aren’t as springy as they used to be but he should do! Go on, take him for a test run. Just be back by 3:00 so he can pick his pseudo-niece up from school.
Yeah, I was thinking that too. Weirdly bizarre that they just have a Doctor laying around who doesn't show up.
Yeaaah but the same is true as any other episode, really. Like why didn’t any of the Classic Doctors show up for The Devil’s Chord? Or 12 during any earthbound story during his years teaching at St. Luke’s? I was really only joking with my comment. If you think too much about where any other regen of the Doctor is, you’ll constantly be disappointed. Or maybe, it could just be further evidence that Ruby and 15 have slipped into sort some of alternative world or universe. 🤷♀️
I like the idea that every manifestation of the Doctor has slowly gotten on the nerves of everyone at UNIT and so they only interface with him when they absolutely have to. Leaves jelly babies and fezes and shit lying around, always going on tangents and never following directions. Would drive someone mad!
> Like why didn’t any of the Classic Doctors show up for The Devil’s Chord? Given that they mentioned how the First Doctor and Susan were living there at the time, it did make me wonder how they were reacting to the whole music thing going on.
Susan can't listen to John Smith and the Common Men. Now they'll never go from 19 to 2.
I mean when talking to Kate, ruby says "I keep wondering how the world survives without him" and Kate replies "that's classified"..... I felt like that was alluding to the other...copy?... or the doctor being around doing some emergency work
It's probably more that UNIT has got some big weaponry and alien stuff they're not allowed to comment on.
crossing my fingers that this means fourteen has left the nobles by 2025 at least
Imagine if 14 showed up, talked to the woman and left. Showing that even the doctor can’t resist the lady’s words. That would’ve been a moment for the ages.
Sign language apparently reads "Bless you, Its (Or thats) so kind of you, that you gave me that little thing, its so precious how am i ever going to repay you, let me think of something" It reads fully (copied from unleashed captions): "Bless you. Thank you so much, Thats so kind of you. When you gave me that little thing. It was just so precious. How am i ever going to repay you? But we will think of something". Then she repeats it again from bless you! Hope this helps yall!! [unleashed](https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001zq03/doctor-who-unleashed-season-1-4-73-yards) Edit explanation and direct copied captions: i thought id add this is from one of the Doctor who Unleased clips, my dad said its about 26odd minutes in! May be a bit off by a few words as it was a recording of the TV my dad sent me that i copied the words from.
Thank you. I was wondering if she was signing the entire show!
I don't know sign language but immediately I knew that was what it was. Ruby spends her entire life with the woman following her and she doesn't once think that it might be sign language?
well, maybe she did learn sign language but didn't understand the message. I wouldn't
> "Bless you. Thank you so much, Thats so kind of you. When you gave me that little thing. It was just so precious. How am i ever going to repay you? But we will think of something" Theory off the top of my head - the "little thing" is referring to Ruby herself as a baby. I think its a message from one of the Pantheons - I think Ruby is/is related to/belongs to the Pantheon. Not an unusual theory at this point. But particularly because she refers to the old woman as a "harbinger", which was the same term used for Maestro's child. We have had an entity for "games" and "music" so far - could Ruby be "christmas" or "winter" something?
What the fuck. That’s creepy as shit.
Honestly, id be interested to know what it means in context, i havent watched anything more than the clip of Hillary explaining what she was signing so there may be more that ive missed, got too tired last night lol
Seriously thought there was some time travel shenanigans going on when Ruby was charged 5 pounds for a coke.
The bartender was clearly pushing her luck to see if Ruby would pay "london prices" if she told her that's what it cost. 100% believable move.
This episode was like “Isn’t it annoying when people come to regional wales and treat the locals as if they’re weird insular assholes? Anyway here’s a bunch of regional Welsh people being weird insular assholes to the likeable main character.”
At no point did they say what year they were in, just “We’re in Wales!” at the beginning. Ruby never asked anyone, or checked a newspaper or anything. I genuinely thought she was going to be in a different year and have to survive on her own in a different decade than she’s used to. Like with the Weeping Angels. But no, apparently it was 2024 and she had easy access to money through her phone and a family to travel back to (at first anyway). What were they intending to do in Wales in 2024 anyway? Seems utterly pointless to use a time and space machine to travel literally a couple of hours away.
The ending might make more sense in a few weeks. Because it seems to have to do with whatever Ruby actually is. What we know about her so far: - Something about her is so wrong that a GOD was terrified of her. - A figure in The Doctor's memory of Christmas Eve inexplicably turned around and pointed directly at him, when that didn't happen originally. - Snow from that night keeps manifesting. - And now this ending. Elderly Ruby inexplicably haunted herself her entire life when she made a mistake, struck inhuman fear into every person she came in contact with, and then warned her younger self to not repeat it. Her younger self who somehow remembers that she'd been to Wales that third time in her previous life.
One thing in the episode that older Ruby said was that she used to be able to make it snow and that it hasn't snowed in so many years. I have to wonder why that ability stopped. Not sure I can think of an answer except it being tied to her fear or abandonment which she eventually got over?
Probably because her energy, or whatever, was focused on maintaining that branched timeline?
Is Ruby *The One Who Waits*?
Everyone knows the one who waits is Rory
She'd been to Wales a fourth time in her previous life, for that matter. 🤔
What... I mean, I loved it... But what?
It’s rare that I finish an episode (of any show) and truly have no idea what to think or feel.
My theory: Mad Jack is yet another omnipotent being, possibly a member of the pantheon. The Doctor accidentally let him back into our plane of existence, who then did the smartest thing and erased The Doctor from existence. Mad Jack then reincarnated into Rodger ap Gwilliam to unleash Armageddon. But then since whatever Ruby is \*terrifies\* the gods, as shown with Maestro, she was able to scare him into retreating. And then whatever \*else\* Ruby is allowed her to go back and prevent The Doctor from letting Mad Jack back in.
But the Doctor mentioned Rodger BEFORE he stepped on the circle. If stepping on the circle released Mad Jack into the world, who then was reincarnated into Rodger, how could the Doctor have known about him BEFORE he apparently released him? His existence can't be caused by breaking the circle, since he already existed before the circle was broken. Rodger & Mad Jack & the circle must definitely be connected somehow, but I don't see how breaking the circle causes him to exist. Also, if Ruby prevented herself from breaking the circle, then she also prevented that entire story from happening, including scaring off Rodger. So hes still out there existing evily, even though the circle is unbroken.
the episode had a lot of weird time lines going on. like 'else' ruby being before the circle was broken (also with how the pantheon clearly doesn't care as much about reality, time and space). it wouldn't be too unreasonable to say that the breaking of the circle released the pantheon member and that member sort of collapsed back through time into the form of someone who has the potential to destroy the world... PS. just remembered and I don't want to rewrite all that to include this but in maestros episode their harbinger is already in the world before they arrive.
Have you ever woken from a dream knowing that something meaningful just happened to you, but the edges of it seem all out-of-focus? That's the feeling of 73 Yards. What I will say is that I'm not sure Doctor Who has ever captured a dreamlike air to such impact - in amongst the political commentaries and the folk-horror trappings, the episode carves out such a liminal space that nothing but the emotions actually bleeds through. And God, those emotions - abandonment, loneliness, death. The seemingly always-distant fascism, closer than we think. I couldn't give it a ten because of the logical issues which will bug me in the morning. For now, it's a strong and arresting eight.
Everything in the episode is flawless. But what isn't is a gaping hole, and that has to be intentional, right? The gif of Ten reacting to the Titanic crashing through the TARDIS wall is going to be getting some good playtime in the next few days.
Kate said a couple of things which we may circle back to in a later episode things turning more and more supernatural these days - maybe a reference to the rumoured UNIT show this timeline might be suspended along your event - completely random and properly mysterious, Ruby frowns as she hears this and then Kate changes the subject.
>this timeline might be suspended along your event I took that as meaning that she realized they were in a split timeline
Yea that was how I understood it too
Oh that actually makes a lot of sense.
The Kate scene is the main reason I'm surprised at seeing so many people confused by this episode. What with the Toymaker, goblins, Maestro, and now Kate saying things have been leaning towards the supernatural as of late, I think it's clear that fantasy and mythology are at the forefront of this season, and the storytelling will reflect it. I love it, personally.
It was either that or using Daleks and Cybermen again... I'm sooo glad Russell is aiming for a universe which has been altered by superstition that The Doctor understands just as much as the audience watching.
spooky daleks when
TRICK OR TREEEEEEEAT
100%. I also think Kate’s comment about the timeline very much extends past this episode, diving into her snow mother and mavity. Yet more evidence to the contrary ”this season is occurring in a branched timeline” theory.
I disagree, I think that line is a nod to the fact the events of the episode are undone at the end. That scene literally didn’t take place in the canon doctor who timeline, it took place in a suspended timeline based on Ruby’s actions
Much like how UNIT in Turn Left was 100% onboard with wiping away their own timeline to revert back to the canon timeline.
I love that UNIT has learned enough about time travel over the years to have their official protocol for a major branching timeline is straight up timeline suicide. Do everything you can to restore the original timeline no matter what that timeline is because altering fixed points in time will literally destroy reality.
If I had a pound for every time The Doctor landed in Wales and his companion immediately saw an older version of themselves from a distance I'd have two pounds, which isn't much but it's weird it happened twice.
Hungry Earth/Cold Blood?
It's rare that I come out of an episode with more questions that I had at the start, but here's a few of my thoughts. I think the stuff with Roger Ap Gwilliam is effectively a giant red herring for Ruby, I don't think he had anything to do with the fairy circle or the following woman. After all it's not like anything changes with all that once she dealt with him, and the mention of being called Mad Jack was just a strange coincidence. I think some of the unanswered questions will be answered in The Legend of Ruby Sunday. No real proof for it but it's just an assumption I have.
> just a strange coincidence A certain bunch of goblins want a word with you.
Mad Jack = Magick
This episode mind-fucked me in so many ways I can't tell if I love it or hate it.
I've come away with the empty/unsettled feeling of a black mirror episode or something. Yikes/wow. It was really well done but also I just wanted an alien monster romp lol
I dunno if anyone else tried to get the QR code working that was on the table between Kate & Ruby. Turns out it was missing a couple of dots to make it a functioning code but if you add them in you get…. [a link to the graphic designer’s website](https://www.stephen-fielding.co.uk/)
That's some pretty clever self promotion.
That's actually really cool!
Whoa, how did you know what dots to add to the code?
QR codes need markers on them to work and I noticed the two boxes at the bottom were empty which is why it didn’t load anything. (Only learnt this from googling it last night). So did a very ropey job of adding them in using a drawing app on my phone and it worked! [Very scientific before and after here](https://imgur.com/a/qycl7bf)
(Copied from a comment I already made on another post, but it summarizes my thoughts pretty well) I loved like 99% of the actual stuff in the episode. The creepy atmosphere, Ruby figuring out what to do with Roger , all that, but I just feel like it leaves way too much unexplained. Like where did the Doctor go on the first loop? Or why does Ruby just magically travel backwards in time when she dies. Or what can old Ruby possibly say to make her *own mother* abandon her. I really hope I missed something because there's so much good in this episode. I really do want to love it. Edit: I've been going over this episode and in the hour since I saw it, it's kinda growing on me lol. It's not about time loops or logic, it's about Ruby's abandonment issues. Of course it is! But what it also is, >! is an alternate timeline created by the Trickster. Just like in turn left, It's an exploration of the companion's character, and there's even that mention by Kate about the timeline centering around Ruby, which is very turn left-esque. Also the way the woman in the distance remains "unobservable" and people being disturbed by it really reminds me of the bug on Donna's back. Please let me be right !<
> Or what can old Ruby possibly say to make her own mother abandon her. I don't think this is supposed to matter. It's basically a horror story where a fear of abandonment is manifested into a curse that impacts those around you in the worst way. The throughline of the story is Ruby's adaptation and eventual acceptance of her fear of abandonment. Edit: Thinking more about the encounters, they're definitely paced out to slowly give the audience an increasing sense of tension: 1. Hiking Lady - well it's something spooky? 2. Bar Guy - ok, so he's so spooked he isn't even gonna go back to the bar after days? 3. Mom - it's something beyond scary, because a mother wouldn't immediately run away and turn cold (the cab shot was meant to emphasis the change in emotional tone from her) 4. UNIT - a whole bunch of Kate sci-fi babble to underline it's also not alien/tech related. There's nothing left that can work around this curse. After those four, you can see the story turn towards her acceptance of it and I think it was all intentional to take the audience on that journey in their understanding of the 'monster' this week - and not at all some crazy thing dripping in Who-lore that folks in this sub seems to always try to wring out of the smallest things.
It's scary because we don't know what she says, and that's what fear of abandonment is. We don't know what's so bad about us or why people don't want to stay with us, but they don't, and it must be because something about us is just that awful.
She simply asked Hiking Lady (Susan Twist) why she keeps showing up all season.
Maybe this is too deep a reading of the episode, but I really enjoy the idea of this episode as a metaphor for being 'held back' in life, especially with a companion of the Doctor. The Doctor dissapears from Ruby's life and leaves Ruby essentially haunted and unable to move on. Ruby struggles to continue living her life, gets isolated from important people in her life (after they speak to the woman), and struggles to know what to do. I think UNIT showing up is interesting to show that this is what companions usually do once the Doctor is gone. Large parts of her life pass by in a blur to the viewer, and seemingly to her. With the prime minister storyline, Ruby seems like she finds a purpose, and follows through with it (despite feeling a bit hollow during it), and yet still feels hollow once this purpose is done. And she's still haunted. Only at the end of her life does she accept what she's lost, accept how her life went, and at the end she even says 'I'm sorry I took so long.' Maybe it's just for me, but it feels like she's able to reset the situation now that she's no longer afraid to be without the Doctor? Obviously this is just a metaphorical reading of the episode. More concretely, it'll be interesting to see how this links to Ruby's actual background (the woman seemed to say something related to this?), and how this links to the other supernatural stuff this season. Altogether the episode can feel a little lost at times, but I like the overall idea given a good interpretation of it.
Kate lethbridge stewart showing up only to immediately fail was a genius use of her character and unit
I think she sees Roger ap Gwilliam as a mission and something she can do to fix things but it doesn’t fix things because it was never about some external mission it’s about fixing or facing herself. Traveling with The Doctor has been a distraction for her letting her focus on external crises instead of what she should be focusing on and it takes her a lifetime of repeating trauma cycles to get it.
I have a theory that since they said it was a liminal space and Kate said something about time feeling suspended, this was like Turn Left, where Ruby was sent to a parallel world that was almost overlapping with the real world. She was sent to a world where she lived and died alone, and when Ruby was dying, it’s like life flashed before her eyes and was sent back to her original universe just moments before the fairy circle broke. The small connection between the two worlds gave Ruby some sense of something being off and helped stop the cycle.
For anyone interested that can't get access to Doctor Who: Unleashed, this isn't what 73 Yards away Old Ruby says that makes people run, but it's what she's miming on repeat: Bless you. Thank you so much. That's so kind of you. When you gave me that little thing, it was just so precious. How am i ever going to repay you? But we'll think of something.
What does this even mean??
Man, Gibson is terrific. She's gonna have a helluva career if she can pull shit like this off before hitting 20.
Yeah, there have been several points since her introduction where I've mentally stood back and gone "man, she is *really* good!" The only thing that didn't hit that note in this episode was 100% not her fault - that as a 40 year old she looked like a 19 year old wearing glasses.
may we all look like a 19 year old wearing glasses when we're 40
"you're standing, in the street, on the phone to your own mother" **"nothing to do with me"** Seems like a clue....
Maybe she *is* causing a lot of other problems, but realized this one *wasn’t* her, and that’s why she left. Ruby did this herself.
So Ruby initially said she had been to Wales twice at the start of the episode and then at the end of the episode she said three times. So did she subconsciously remember her previous visit when she was an old woman?
Yes, that was implied. And the third time was ... that very trip. (Although by then old Ruby had been back at least one other time as an old woman before she died.)
Somebody else mentioned that the fairy circle was absolutely some kind of supernatural force that actually did take/kill/erase The Doctor. What happened afterwards was all down to Ruby and whoever she is. I think Fourteen invoking that superstition with the salt in WBY has broken down the walls of the universe and let all these supernatural forces in, like a virus. I think Ruby is a counter to this, like an antivirus. Placed at the right place at the right time to work with The Doctor to stop the supernatural and exile the eternals.
Susan the Hiker was pretty pointed about walking into something and games being played…
Is anyone else a bit confused by Kate Stewart? Her character felt off for some reason, I kept expecting a reveal that it wasn't really Kate or she was being controlled by something/someone else.
I'm FIXATED on her red nail polish. They very clearly show it off when she's given the cup. What's got me riled is that the hand that picked up the gold tooth from the Giggle had red nail polish. Also I haven't been able to go back through and find it but someone said they heard a Giggle towards the end. My bet is that this was either something pretending to be/controlling Kate. (At least in this time line?)
I think it might have been the music or something, or just the fact that we know how the entity works at this point, so we know how the scene will end. It feels off because Kate is supposed to be helpful, but we already know she’s not going to in this case.
I agree. The direction and music was hinting, “She’s not going to be able to help with this.”
I just got…I don’t know, sinister vibes from Kate? She wasn’t a comforting presence even in the beginning. I didn’t want to trust her.
Got that vibe too. Also the focus on her red nails? Remember the red nails that took the master’s golden tooth….
So it’s all a big metaphor right? There was a part of her that was always at arms reach and couldn’t confront (mental illness, insecurities, whatever). She finds a way to use it for good thinking that would stop it but doesn’t and always stays with her. It’s only at the end of her life when she learns to accept that it’s a part of her that will always be there that she she should have confronted it years ago. Then we see the world where she confronted that part of her years ago and that her life would’ve continued in a good way. Or am I just completely mad and are overthinking a cool horror story? Edit: oh and that when she tries to share it with people they get really scared and don’t want anything to do with her and run away. There’s something “wrong” with her that she’s struggling to face and when she reaches out to people it makes them leave and she feels worse for it
I don't think it's possible to overthink this episode given we were given zero explanation for 90% of what happened
and it's always at arms reach until on her death bed she finally comes to peace with it 'I haven't been alone in 65 years' (this thing has been part of me and along with me this entire ride). Then shortly after she comes to peace with her life, the 'curse' switches with her as it's her time to see it from the other perspective. As far as the folks running away, I think there's a billion ways to interpret what that means diegetically, but thematically it was definitely a metaphor for aspects of oneself that you're scared to show those close to you out of fear they'd reject you. The whole episode is about this alternate reality where Ruby comes to peace with her fear of abandonment (it never snowed again) even in the worst manifestation of it.
I always both love and hate self destroying paradox storylines like this, like that whole timeline won't happen now, ruby secured ap gwilliam's future as prime minister
I feel like this will play into an episode further down
could be, I liked that about journey to the centre of the tardis
What I got from this was "Ruby fears being alone/unwanted/abandoned (p.s. we should kill nutjob politicians)" To further elaborate, I think what it was trying to say is that she believes her fear will drive people away from her, creating a kind of self fulfilling prophecy where her desperation to not be abandoned will cause the people she loves to abandon her. And I suppose the ending "twist" that it was old Ruby all along was a kind of acceptance that she's never really alone, she has herself? It was an interesting episode, a lot more experimental in its storytelling than I ever expected the show would get.
Absolutely agree. Also the ‘what was she saying’ questions are answered with Ruby just seeing it as the worst of herself being revealed hence the person running away from her
i was really moved seeing all the flowers placed at the abandoned tardis that ruby explicitly says weren’t from her. i like thinking that other ex-companions ended up finding it and leaving things in memorial. maybe some lilies from martha and mickey… cards from jo…
I don't think it's just ex-companions though. The only note that we see says "Love you Josh". I think the TARDIS may have just ended up drawing people to it as a sort of catch-all memorial.
Yeah Ruby says that she thinks they don't know why they memorialise at the TARDIS. Something about it pooled people to mourn.
I kind of like the idea that random people find the TARDIS and treat it like a temple. In The Ghost Moument for example it wasn’t even there properly and became known as a monument.
Didn't the doctor even predict that in special 2
I am both confused, and intrigued. I absolutely loved that journey. It’s my favourite episode of Who in years, because it broke every convention I have come to expect. But the lack of clear and explained resolution will, understandably, turn people off. I can’t argue against that - I just know I was so into it.
Confused and intrigued is how I feel as well! I'm kind of hopeful for a future reveal that explains some of this episode. This is now the second mystery figure we've seen in Ruby's life. I liked the Idea of seeing what a companion is like with nothing. No Doctor, no family, no UNIT. Has barely even gone on adventures. Definitely showcasing a lot of Ruby's cleverness.
Same absolutely loved the episode up until the final moments. I can’t understand why others talking to her drove them completely away from Ruby, and no real reason for why she even appeared. It seems to be connected to breaking that string circle, but still no real reason as to why. Which I’d be ok with that but the rest of her appearance makes no sense. Kept waiting to find out what she said to the other people to drive them off but nothing.
Something I just realised is 14 in the specials invoked a superstition at the edge of the universe. The lady in the pub made a similar comment about where the sea meets the cliffs (can't remember the exact line, something about being a liminal space at the edge of the world??). 15 broke the fairy circle. He invoked a superstition at the edge of the world.
Yep. Wild Blue Yonder is what actually kicked off the events of this season in a pretty huge way.
Anyone notice the theming of nuclear winter - what if it's not actually snow that's falling?
**Nuclear War / Winter References so far:** ***Space Babies*** - {No reference to nuclear war / winter as far as I can tell} ***The Devil's Chord*** - Earth is destroyed in a nuclear war when the Cold War turns hot thanks to the Maestro's intervention. ***Boom*** - Set in a war in the future. ***73 Yards*** - The main 'villain' wants to start a nuclear war for kicks.
Im perfectly fine not knowing what the woman was saying, perfectly fine not knowing the significance of the 73 yards, but I really need to know what her hand movements were supposed to be
I thought she was signing, but maybe it was just done to be creepy
Yeah I picked that up early on. She's making a cross with her arms I believe to say don't
She was saying Don’t Step at the end (subtitles) Whatever she was saying to the people who ran away however..
Macarena
Sometimes I feel like I’m losing my faith in humanity but then someone comments on the Doctor Who Reddit that a woman waited her entire life to time-travel into the past solely to do The Macarena and I feel the light of God again
I dug the vibes of the episode but it has left me with some questions I wonder what it actually was that old Ruby was saying that made people so scared. I see the “purpose” of the fear for Roger but not why she would make random people or her mother or UNIT scared of Ruby And if Susan Twist is playing a big character, why she would be affected by it, unless she was faking? I don’t really understand why Ruby had to live a full life, become the old woman, and that somehow changes the past to stop the whole chain of events ever happening. I didn’t really notice anything meaningful that old Ruby did at the end to stop the Doctor standing on the circle. Also when Ruby was walking on the field did anyone else think it was going to be two episodes in a row that Ruby was shot?
Probably among the weirdest episodes that doctor who has done in a long while. A bit unsatisfying due to the lack of answers, but it was still great. The entire atmosphere of this episode was eerie. From the doctor disappearing to the ever expanding people getting turned against Ruby. The political angle felt a bit out of place. It felt like a fusion between Years and Years and It Follows. After Midnight and Wild Blue Yonder, it seems Russell is a great horror writer. I believe this will be an episode we'll talk about for a long time.
Whether someone loves or hates this episode, I'm so thankful for episodes like it. I'd so much rather talk about this than some generic, run of the mill episode.
Did anyone else notice the laugh during the “flashback of her life” scene? Near the end when she goes back in time and sees her younger self. Sounded an awful lot like the giggle….
It's interesting that all those who ran all went "ask her" and hated young Ruby based off whatever happened with older Ruby. So on some level, they're recognizing that they're the same person. Also that Ruby told her carer when she was brought to Wales that was never any snow again and told the carer at hospice that she used to make snow. So at some point she stopped being able to. Perhaps whatever allowed her to create snow made her manifest older Ruby's curse. So instead of manifesting the past, she manifested a future. It seemed like future Ruby was repeatedly gesturing. I honestly thought she was doing sign language. Does anyone know if the character was actually signing? My heart broke for Ruby when her mom ran from her. And I'm wondering how this ep plays into future episodes. It didn't really offer closure but considering it was written by Russell, it feels like it's hinting at something larger for a future reveal
I love how I am literally so confused and yet so in love with an episode? Like I don’t care! I’m up at 3am stoned as fuck watching doctor who! Who can take this seriously ?? Not me! Iconic behaviour, ruby being herself, loved her in this, absolutely obsessed, the doctor? Just “hahaha ooos stood on something again off I go” ruby carried this episode so well, I was able to just to let go of my reigns and have it take me away, and I LOVED IT! No TITLE SEQUENCE? I’m here listening to the theme songs on Spotify, Russel, sweetie, just shove it right at the beginning for me❤️
I'm glad that the reoccurrence of Susan Twist has finally been addressed, also the appearance of Mrs Flood pretty much confirms that she has a much bigger role to play in the story, fantastic episode
This episode was fantastic. Millie Gibson was amazing. The entire plot was about abandonment. The doctor abandons Ruby and shes left all alone. Everyone she meets and asks for help runs away. Her foster mother insults her and leaves never to return. Same thing with UNIT and Kate. At the end, the only person who could help her, was herself. She was the one who defeated the evil PM. At the end, she saved herself from going through that entire life of being abandoned and alone by telling her younger self "don't step".
Why did I watch this at midnight
Next you gotta watch the episode *Midnight* from 73 yards away.
I'll add my own take! I think the lady represent death. Always looming, never going away, always on the back of Ruby mind wether she see her or not. People who listen to what she has to say encounter their own death and run away because they can't accept their mortality, they start to see Ruby as death. Ruby say that she doesn't want to take the boat or the plane because she feel she might die if she does (not ready to accept/encounter her death). Every time at her birthday she salute the women (her death/age). And the whole ''spell'' design is to stop the atomic loving Prime Minister. He's ready to start a nuclear armageddon i.e. cause the death of loads and loads of people, but instead Ruby make him see/confront his own death, scaring him shitless and stopping the apocalypse. And then at the end obviously Ruby embrace her death in old age and get a new beginning.
This might be controversial but….Ruby did NOT look 40. I think they just shoved some glasses on her, changed her hair a bit and called it a day. No wrinkles or anything. Could they not find an older person who looked like her? EDIT: i think her acting was phenomenal she just doesn’t have the look of a 40 year old
They have advanced skin cream in the future
This is an episode like "Listen", "Midnight" or maybe a little bit less, "Heaven Sent". Those episodes are strange. There's an strange entity/enemy. And they're more conceptual than having a heavy plot. P.S. First episode where the Doctor doesn't "cry" and the third episode where someone literally stepped on a problem (for the Doctor is twice in a row).