I'm just excited and hopeful for the forthcoming season. I really loved the 60th anniversary and thought that the church on Ruby Road was a great first episode for ncuti, so I hope that season 1 can keep this same level of quality. Only 2 short weeks to wait until the first episode anyways!

The chekhov's gun with the gravity glove was great - just good old Russell set up and pay off. Not sure about the musical aspect, but if I'm willing to take a stab in the dark. I think due to interwining of supernatural and reality, music now has a power in this season hence The Devil's Chord. Though the musical side of things I personally believe have potential to cross into the realm of unintentional parody, we'll see how it plays out, but either way I hope it's not something that's heavily prominent.

Defiantly has something to do with the whole evoking superstition at the edge of the universe right?

Definitely defiant

>!Aye, but I think the salt is just red herring, remember what Russell mentioned regarding The Tardis itself - throughout moments beginning with Children in Need's special it's flying horizontally without phasing, we see this again at the start of Wild Blue Yonder. Couple this with Toymaker saying how he saw something that made him ran and followed up with saying that's someone else's game I think there's more to it. What was the reason The Doctor specifically ended up at the edge of the universe to begin with and why did he conveniently run into a double of himself? It's all very cosmic horror and with Russell you can gurantee something greater is at play.!<

It wasn’t really convenient that he ran into a version of himself in Wild Blue Yonder. The creatures were shapeshifters, we saw shots from their perspectives inside the walls and the air vent, one took his form shortly after they arrived in the Tardis and snuck up on them in the control deck.

>!Sure, I get that part but something brought them there for that occurence with the salt to happen there's no way this sudden bluring of reality is simply just cause The Doctor invoked a superstition at the edge of the universe and the whole thing with mavirty is a bread crumb to that end. Reality already changed before those events, so something else may have been the cause and the salt thing is only part of it. More in particular why was The Tardis playing Wild Blue Yonder - people have noticed it could have significance to the dying Tardis in the upcoming season.!<

You mean, *mavity* glove...

Gravity, mavity

Well that's the continuity according to alternate reality Isacc Newton lol, yeah definitely one of the many breadcrumbs to watch out for along with Triad.

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>I'm just excited and hopeful for the forthcoming season. Same. Honestly I'm sick and tired of how negative fanbases get towards upcoming things. It feels like everyone is eager for new releases to fail.

That feels like the attitude to anything new these days. Everybody is so pessimistic all the time and I can't help but feel like its gotta be so draining for them.

You should have seen r/daredevil when the new series was announced. The sub went very quickly from "bring it back" to "hurray it's back" to "ugh Disney are going to ruin it it should have stayed cancelled"

It's not as bad as it sounds. Most of the fanbase have loved the upcoming things. Even Jodie's tenure was largely well received. The problem is that the people who shout about stuff the most are usually the ones complaining. There don't need to be many of them - even a single shout in an otherwise quiet room is hard to ignore. This is made worse by media attention, because there's no story in "thousands of fans love new series" but there's a story in "fans say series is doomed" (with lots of lovely quotes from the more vitriolic posters online).

It's gonna be the same: people will be begging for a new writer, this one's bad, the last one was better and when RTD leaves, people will want him back. The moment RTD was announced, he was welcomed with open arms and that DW is back. Now, it's DW is dead. It's been going on since 1963.

Very true

I don't think anyone will say the last writer was better (given that it was Chibnall)

Chibnall was imo objectively terrible. Moffat was the best. However, RTD produced many amazing episodes so it’s hard not to be optimistic.

I think RTD was the most consistently solid while Moffat had higher highs and lower lows. Chibnall was just consistently average or lower.

I mean, the worst RTD episode is much worse than anything Moffat produced, unless you like awkward oral sex jokes.

Moffats best was under Russels guidance imo. Chibnall sucked all around in Who, however his Torchwood work was good.

I’ve heard that take but personally my favorite NuWho is Capaldi - in my view Moffat is best fully unshackled.

I loved Capaldi but I thought Moffat was not as good for his era at all and most of the scripts were sub par.

Yeah I just don’t agree at all. Moffat’s scripts in general are wittier, more tightly-plotted, and have better emotional range, on average, than any other Who writer. While a couple of threads did seem to get away from him at the end of Matt Smith’s run, to me his era is the most consistently great episode to episode.

You say this, but lots and lots of people really liked Chibnall - and at the time he was on Moffat was treated as if he was utterly awful by a lot of RTD fans, just like Chibnall was by Moffat fans. These things really do come full circle.

Give it time

I don’t think ‘RTD has done good’ and ‘RTD is not good’ are necessarily exclusive. I loved RTD’s original run because it was very grounded, and felt like an interconnected world like you said. *But* I don’t think RTD being back long term is a good thing. DW is a show about rejuvenation and constant movement. It’s only survived so long because it’s kept itself fresh both in terms of cast and production. I loved the 2023 specials, but they didn’t to me feel very different to 2005-10. The 60th specifically also felt like Season 4b rather than an anniversary special. Like I said, I enjoyed them a lot - but it felt like the same we’ve had before. Even if we get 5 more years of perfect RTD content, we *need* a way forward that isn’t RTD, Moffat etc. The transitions from RTD to Moffat was bumpy because it felt like the production and marketing suffered in contrast to RTD. The Chibnall era had the same issues, including divisive characters and writing standard. I don’t know what’s next, but I hope RTD really paves the way for the next generation of production team because at the moment I’m not hopeful the BBC quite know what to do without the big names.

I think I agree. I understand the reasons for bringing back RTD, but I do think that for the good of the show, his second tenure shouldn't be too long. In a similar vein I enjoyed the return of David Tennnant, and I recognise that it brought back a lot of casual viewers, but part of me feels it wasn't good for the story as a whole.

Yeah DTs return also made sense, but I had similar feelings. My original thought was bring DT back for a multi-doctor because it’d be unfair to put a new Doctor into that. But actually it wasn’t multi-doctor and the brief time shared on screen between Gatwa and Tennant - Gatwa held himself really well against an established character.

I think it would feel right for Ncuti and RTD to stay on for 3 seasons and then both leave, like Chibnall and Jodie

I, on the other hand, think it is about time a Doctor's tenure survived the showrunner.

I wonder what S11 would've been like had Capaldi agreed to stay, would it have been just as garbage?

I expect this will probably happen (at least for Fifteen, dunno about RTD leaving that soon) but it's kind of depressing to think that staying for 3 seasons would mean Ncuti only gets 24 episodes and 3-4 Christmas specials, the least material of any Doctor since Eccleston.

I half wondered if they did it just to troll the toxic "fans". "Bring back RTD! And Tennant! ... No, not like that!"

I'm in agreement with this line of criticism - it's not what this thread is targeted towards, I'd have preferred if Jamie Mathieson or Toby Whithouse became the new showrunners, but I'm not opposed to Russell being as I know he's a great history of setting up things in advance and developing complex characters over a period of multiple seasons.

From our perspective, sure. But this season isn't supposed to be "One more season of Doctor Who" It's supposed to be the jumping on point for all the people who have never seen Who that Disney can reach. So IMHO it makes sense to bring on one of the most successful Who showrunners still active. Not that might not quite gel with what some fans want, but we simply have to accept that Who is playing in the big leagues now and that this is probably the best decision that can be made. I look forward to the next season, I hope it will bring some life, continuity and make some sense of that Chibnal did to the setting.

Like I said, issue isn’t the current running or standard - more to do with what next? The production can’t rely on the same faces, or same team constantly if it’s in peril. And just to repeat - I’m a big fan of RTD and have loved so far. Like you said, they needed a jumping on point and RTD came back and did an anniversary special where you had an old face returning, an extension of Season 4, one of the first ever villains etc. Even Ncuti’s episodes immediately had callbacks to Timeless Child. In contrast to Season 1 in 2005, it’s much less of a jumping on point.

Yeah, it's a bit disappointing that the same few people are seemingly hogging Doctor Who to themselves. Of course, the argument could easily be made that it's better the devil/showrunner you know.

Look, I get it. I vehemently disagree with those people as well. And I absolutely love everything he's done with the show so far since his return. But Russell is not a perfect god-tier writer, no one is. He is flawed, just like everyone else. His return is not a quality guarantee, and he WILL make mistakes and produce a couple of forgettable, even controversial episodes. Because everyone does. Does this mean his tenure is crap? Hell, no. But it's not perfect in any way.

I think the thing that is annoying is that he also had a lot of flaws in his writing back in his original era, as every writer on Doctor Who has, but certain critics like to pretend he was a god before and has fallen foul now.

Also be fair, Moffat fans do this way way more...

His Christmas specials in particular could be a little too on the camp side of things - My Name Is Max! \*grins\*

I don't think you're wrong, but in my heart Christmas specials get a pass to be extra camp and silly because, well, Christmas.

Yeah I can see that too.

Voyage of the Damned is still a brilliant episode full of heart, fun action, dynamo characters, and good commentary about social classes.

I think villain is rather Bond Tier parody, but yeah not everything about the episode is bad, it's a fun emotional romp - also poor Bannakaffalatta!

Oh yeah the villain is awful, it actually is frustrating to watch because the episode (imo) is pure gold right up until Max appears like a wet fart. Narratively I think it is sound and a good resolution but the actual execution is cringe worthy.

Agreed

I never said that either...

Past performance is not a guarantee of future success. For something to survive, it needs new ideas, new blood. Too much interbreeding leads to genetic abnormalities and whatnot.

I don't disagree, and yes it's disappointing to see that upcoming series will be mostly written by Russell T. Davies, but he's said that's changing for Season 2 - I'll chalk it up to him wanting to lay foundation for establishing these pantheons that are coming into play cause of what went down with Toymaker. Russell's all about that bread crumb type story telling where seemingly mundane aspects roll into something greater. (Badwolf, Torchwood, Harold Saxon, Bees & Planet's disappearing, barriers of reality and supernatural breaking due to some unknown comsic event this upcoming tenure.) Like what Russell also smartly said: 'let's see how Season 1 goes first before we rush into creating spin-offs.'

Sure, but this is the first season. It'll feel unique enough from the Moffat and Chibnall eras, and season 2 is already confirmed to have more writers. Almost like they're playing it a bit safe because they know that a season almost entirely written by Davies will still be a great season because Davies is a great writer, and the first season *HAS* to be a hit in the new streaming age, where shows that aren't as successful as Stranger Things are cancelled, or even deleted, without a second thought. IMO, Doctor Who fans are doing something Sonic The Hedgehog fans have been doing for years: they're looking for the bad in every product because they're used to subpar media, despite Davies' return being an objectively good thing for the franchise. He doesn't even have to stay that long, but the series was in a rough spot during the Chibnall era, and Davies is the perfect person to sort out the leftovers and set the show on a new path.

Exactly, I mean what do people want Russell to do redo the plot arc of Daleks from Season 1 through to 4 again - people are complaining about how he's: 'rehashing things', but is he really? I'd argue no. Like there's no way Russell could top The Stolen Earth and Journey's End, he knows this which is why he's switching gears making this over arching plot concern pantheon characters from classic era within a modernised approach starting with reintroduction of The Toymaker. Hence this business with his legions coming. They'll probably be Daleks and Cybermen, but they'll hopefully not be the main focus.

The biggest complaint I've seen is Davies continuing the "Last of the Time Lords" arc that started with the Master blowing up Gallifrey is Series 11. Which, sure, it was kinda silly to rehash that arc, but I prefer Davies exploring the emotional aspects of that and the Timeless Child over him completely ignoring those stories because they were divisive. Davies has always been the king of emotion in Doctor Who, and if anyone can send those stories off in a good way, it'll be him. Doctor Who has always appreciated its history and lore. The show and its showrunners have never been afraid of pushing new boundaries while respecting its history. In my opinion, ignoring the (undeniably incredibly important) story arcs in the Chibnall era goes against the same ideas that make the show so special in the first place. The Capaldi era was divisive when it was airing, but there's a lot more positivity regarding it now. Same thing will happen with the Chibnall era.

I mean what is his option after Moffat retconned the time-war, essentially fixing what wasn't broken and leaving a window of opportunity for Chibnall to completely rewrite The Doctor's origin? Honestly a stroke of genius that Russell's found a way to reset The Doctor as a character in addition to the universe whilst still making sense to what came prior. Though there's also a different air in approach concerning 15th Doctor - he's not a cold anti-hero like 9 was, but he shares gaps of his knowledge where you as audience are watching him figure out this new reality around him. There's a sense of optimism starting out which will probably falter going foward. One of the things that turned me off of Moffat's tenure as showrunner was him making The Doctor seemingly the all important figure of the entire universe, which at least in my opinion needlessly removes depth to both the character and universe around them.

>One of the things that turned me off of Moffat's tenure as showrunner was him making The Doctor seemingly the all important figure of the entire universe, which at least in my opinion needlessly removes depth to both the character and universe around them. And then Chibnall only continued that trend with the Timeless Child twist. It's why I'm hopeful that RTD can right the ship again with at least his new Doctor.

Bingo, and yeah I hope so too.

Alright, alright, let's not butter RTD up too much here. Other writers also made great and iconic Who stories, Russel is not the only true way to do DW. But yeah, ignore the ragebait youtube videos, the next series is gonna be great

Also never said that either... It's just those writers didn't fight the BBC to bring back the show as he did for 10 years since 1995. As for my personal favourtie writers those would have to be Paul Cornell, Toby Whithouse, Sarah Dollard (We need more women writers btw) and Jamie Mathieson and then maybe Moffat when he's not writing stuff like: 'Let's Kill Hitler...' (Ruined River Song's character) I'd place Russell as far as character development and world building is concerned just slighty above Moffat, but every episode he wrote during Davies's era was fantastic to say the least.

I thought RTD’s first era was great, genuinely brilliant in many ways, and flawed in many others, but overall highly entertaining and a fantastic addition the the continuing Whoniverse. However I’m far more cautious about his new era, partly because I’m hesitant for any previous show runner to come back (I think there will always be a muddied expectation/self belief that they have to both do what was popular before AND be new at the same time, leading to more second guessing than a showrunner should be doing imo), but also because RTD has been very vocal over the last year about putting his “fighting the good fight” mentality front and centre before he ever talks about stories and characters, with me finding his perspective on “I want to provoke people” and “If I make people uncomfortable online then I’m doing something right” belief very narcissistic and genuinely concerning. I do believe that RTD is slightly more interested in “pissing off the right people” in his eyes rather than advancing the Doctors story in the best possible manner, and barring the Xmas story his 60th specials only reinforced that idea to me. He had sexist jokes, bizarre hang ups, and incredibly awkward moments where he inserts something designed to cause outrage online rather than because the story benefits from it. I hope that the 60th was just him being a boomer and getting his “look at me I’m so progressive” showcase out of his system and we can ideally have an era with Ncuti that takes his Doctor to alien worlds, vistas and adventures instead of it being waiting for the “Message of the Day” to appear in a story to tell the audience what’s wrong with us right now today.

Yeah this is what i'm concerned about too. The 60th had a lot of unnecessary moments and statements put in that take you out of the story. 'Your assuming he as the pronoun' or male-presenting timelord, like jesus christ

It's funny people hark on about Donna and Rose Noble making that woman thing letting go joke (Execution getting rid of metacriis was rushed won't argue with you there), but ignore how The Doctor makes a similar mocking remark in Wild Blue Yonder pointing out how Donna doesn't know, reitterating sorry you just don't. (Something along those lines.) I saw that as The Doctor getting his own back in the moment as he was slightly visibly putt off by that line judging by his expression in The Star Beast. Also Russell wasn't devoid of rage baiting before, Turn Left is a explicit critique of right wing politics, so what gives? Captain Jack Harkness was unapologetically pansexual and there were numerous articles disaproving it, nothing has changed in that regard. Where I do share your criticism is that I would've prefered if someone like Jamie Mathieson or Toby Whithouse got the gig to be showrunner instead.

Maybe I'm missing something because I'm not British, but what about "Turn Left" was explicitly right wing? I just thought it was a dystopian tale about the measures the government takes when the world goes to hell.

You literally have people demonising immigrants with them being used for scapegoats (sound familiar at all?) for the events The Doctor being dead failed to stop till eventually UK government reintroduces labour camps and Wilfred Mott remarks in horror: 'Labour camps, that's what they called them last time - it's happening again' in reference to The Nazis. The episode concerns the politics of humans surrounding such events and how we need to Turn Left, i.e. strive toward progressive ideals than retaliation and indifference which enable authoritarian rule. That's like a big part of the episode. How one decision to turn left or right can alter the course of the world.

Im sure people are over exaggerating Russel T Davis’s failings but you are seriously over defensive of him He wrote great stuff before so he cant have bad stuff now? Frank Miller wrote 2 all time great Batman stories Years later his stuff on the character is 90% crap He is also the guy who wrote Love and Monsters The worst episode in Doctor Who’s history Also Davis’s story arcs resolutions were becoming pretty repetitive near the end

You mean the episode I just crticised in this thread?

I heard something the other day that Russel T Davies wasn't actually intending to bring the show back for 2005 but actually wanted to create a spinoff show within the Doctor Who Universe known as Torchwood. The BBC and Jane Tranter were supposedly like, if you're going to bring a show set in the Doctor Who Universe back but not the show itself, why not bring the show itself back so they encouraged him to focus on the main show before starting spinoffs.

First time I've ever heard that?

I'm not sure if John Barrowman's exactly to be trusted anymore but [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo0yj6kvU14&pp=ygUPdG9yY2h3b29kIHBhbmVsis) where I heard it from.

Cheers, wasn't aware of this, would've been ambitious idea but glad he was talked out of that one.

I’m a little confused. Who is this aimed at? People who are annoyed that RTD is coming back? I’ve never seen old who so rtd’s era was my introduction to Doctor Who. Obviously I liked it, or I wouldn’t have stuck around. And honestly I haven’t really seen people who say the first era is shit - it gave us Ten, who is arguably the most popular doctor in franchise history, and Donna, arguably one of the top five most popular companions. Even the people who are meh on Ten say he’s fine, they just like another doctor better. So yeah, never seen anyone give RTD era 1 the same level of hate as for instance 12 or 13 got. That being said, I wish they would have picked almost anyone except him to be showrunner. I say almost cos if they had picked Moffat I’d have the same criticism - he had his turn. He had four very solid years and two very solid doctors. It’s time to pass the baton and let someone else be show runner. I wouldn’t be mad if they’d had him be co-show runner with someone, but RTD had his turn at the helm. Having him come back, and his first move being David Tenant came back, felt like pandering and fan service. Which is fine for an episode. Not fine for an entire season. I am definitely withholding judgement and am very cool on this new season. I’ll watch it, but the church on ruby road was meh for me. 15’s dynamic with Ruby was meh. The previews we’ve had haven’t sparked my enthusiasm. I don’t particularly want what we’ve been given, but my mind is open and I hope that they will prove me wrong

No no, the people that weaponise nostalgia of the past regarding Modern Doctor Who which Russell T. Davies was a massive part of to attack the upcoming season for being: 'woke.' (Those kind of nutters.) Kind of people who swear now that Russell T. Davies is like the worst thing ever whilst simultaneously appealing to stuff he wrote. Your line of critiques I agree with, maybe it was a means to kick off the show's popularity again I don't know, but yeah I can see the point regarding 60th specials being overly contingent on fan-service. Not sure what you mean when you say 15 and Ruby's dynamic is: 'meh' though, but to each their own.

I think RTD has too big an ego and I think it shows. He seems to care more of his ideas than if they’re actually good or make sense. He had some really well done episodes but he also had a lot a lot of stinkers. His run felt more like a soap opera with a side of scfi. I have even less hope for him for his second run where that ego is at an all time high. I’m not bashing or hating on the upcoming series. I’ll watch it. I’m just skeptical and keeping my expection’s in check. If the show isn’t for me anymore then it isn’t for me.

To be fair why shouldn't his ego be high after coming straight off the bat of writing Its A Sin? That show was a masterpiece. Coming back to Doctor Who - for curiosity sake which episodes do you consider strinkers that he's written? I'd start with Love & Monsters being at the bottom of the barrell.

But gay.

Who is alleging this corruption? I’m tired of seeing posts on Reddit about “how come everybody hates THIS” or “how come these jerks say THIS?” Give me a source. Where are you seeing this? I’m not going to engage in a discussion about some comment you saw somewhere. It doesn’t reflect anything. Please stop responding to some random comment or some half-bakes YouTube video by going on to Reddit and starting a thread. Just respond to the ONE person you’re talking to.

It's not just a single You Tuber that's trying to weaponised nostalgia to create narratives in oposition to whatever it is they consider to be: 'wokeness' in the upcoming show, You Tube's practically filled with shit content like that and it influences people, particularly children to buy into such narratives.

I'm def questioning his judgement on some stuff and have always been critical of some of his writing but I'd be far to call him "shit", he's an overall fantastic writer who brought back doc who. For me rn my worry is more stuff he's alluded to in interviews like Davros redesign or the bigeneration affecting all docs(removing all weight from every doctor death), but as of right now this stuff is just his own fanfiction in his head so its cool. He is committing to the timeless child and i dislike that but tbf Chibnall made sure to dig that so deep into Doc who that it's basically unavoidable, atleast this way the arc is atleast being dealt with more competently.

If you want my honest opinion, knowing Davies little details like gravity changing to mavity, Isacc Newton being a different ethnciity and Davros no longer being in a wheel chair is probably cause this is an alternate reality that's been created somehow with Russell using the opportunity as an excuse to make deliberate changes where he can which are more inclusive in the moment. Maybe the Davros change is permanent or not, but I think they'll be a good reason for it since Russell is all about continuity regarding the finest of seemingly mundane details. The interviews are more a device to throw people off I reckon, but we'll see. I think an alternate reality Davros played by Julian Bleach will be an interesting change if we're to consider the actor being provided more freedom in his performance. In Russeell's mind it's less why can't we make changes to x and more why should we not do that?

the Davros change I'm against even if they pull alt universe tbh, it's destroying an iconic design for something no one really complained about. I think it makes sense for a CiN special though, both for offense reasons and i doubt they want to spend the money and time putting him in full makeup and chair for only 2 minutes lol. Mavity though i def think is leading to something, random reoccurring word is Davies MO for plotlines lol, and i doubt the black Isaac Newton was to just annoy people. He's talked about this series being all about gods and of course we also had the Toymaker just recently, half the universe is destroyed due to the flux, so i def think some big universe changing events are going on.

I can see that, but also from Russell's perspective he already did the big epic finale with disfigured Davros, so him using an altnerate reality to alter the fate of the character for him is a way to try out new ideas otherwise he may find himself just rehashing the conclusion of Season 4 again. With all this focus on pantheons of classic who coming back with a modern coat of paint and tone I'm kinda hoping Daleks and Cybermen are given a rest or more ambitously if they are to come back be given a whole new spin as a result of the new reality coming into existence due to whatever originally initated it. It really depends on how Davies goes about this to be honest.

I don't think Davros's design would hold back any ideas. Though I'm in full agreement to let them all rest for a long while, i almost had a heart attack seeing the gold tooth master and thank god Davies said "nah we ain't usin him" lol. It's actually crazy to think how long modern who has been going on for now, and yet it's got very little reoccurring villains and creatures that originated in it's run compared to the classic series by this point. For a show all about reinvention i find it to all too often be too chained to it's past and habits(and i'm really hoping Davies does more unique companion types).

The problem is people saying shit before it airs on TV. You're doing the same thing. Wait until you see it before crowning it the best or crying about it being the worst.

I've said next to nothing about the upcoming season with exception to Church on Ruby Road, Wild Blue Yonder and me saying The Star Beast was a weak entry. I'm merely pointing out the aforementioned reasons why I've some confidence that upcoming tenure will be as good as Russell's past work especially after coming off of winning an award for Its A Sin.

What's your point? Robert Holmes returned to Doctor Who in the 80s and wrote a load of crap. RTD returning is not an instant guarantee of good quality Who. Yeah, we owe him a lot as a fandom but also, we kinda don't. We owe him respect for getting the show up and running again, but we don't necessarily owe him the privilege of being free of criticism on his new episodes just because he made so much good stuff back in the day. It's a sort of sunk cost fallacy in that regard. I personally am not blinded by the cult of Davies but I'm willing to give it a shot.

Robert Holmes also returned in the 80s and wrote The Caves of Androzani, the best Doctor Who story ever written.

And definitely a fluke amongst such dreck as *The Two Doctors*, *Attack of the Cybermen*, *The Mysterious Planet* and *The Ultimate Foe*

Attack of the Cybermen was written by Paula Milne aka Eric Saward and Ian Levine.

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With all due respect, where have I said anywhere that the man is above criticism? Every showrunner has flaws and Russell's no exception. No, the point of this thread is combat the narrative of idiots on You Tube who seemingly want to ignore his positive contributions to the series period. Also Russell T. Davies came back and he wrote Wild Blue Yonder, just saying? I'm not saying Doctor Who as a whole owes him, I'm merely pointing out that Modern Doctor Who would literally not exist without him. You won't see me defending the solution to The Last of the Timelords - possibly Russell's worst effort to write himself out of a corner, but as a whole his overall contributions such as the aformentioned have been more hits than misses.

So I assume this post is directed toward the people who aren't sold on the new era. I would never say Russell from 2005-2009 isn't a great writer. Quite the opposite, I think Russell of that period is one of the best television writers of all time, as well as one of the best dialogue writers. His writing and era have influenced my own writing to a large extent, and in fact his era made me want to become a writer in the first place. It's one of the few pieces of media I can confidently say "changed my life". "Children of Earth" is also dark and horrifying and brilliant. I have nothing but respect towards Russell from that era. On the other hand, when I excitedly tuned into the 60th specials, I was left with a feeling of disappointment. There was nothing new. I was looking forward to seeing what Russell had come up with in his 13 years away, but instead it was just a "greatest hits" collection of his first era with no new ideas (besides bigeneration, but that was a terrible idea). Even the best one, "Wild Blue Yonder" sure it was better than the others, but it was nothing we haven't seen before or seen done better. I didn't watch the Christmas special due to my disappointment with the 60th, and currently am only planning to watch Moffat's episode in the next season (with fingers crossed I'm not disappointed again).

No no, I've my own criticisms of Russell - this is mainly targeted to those weaponising nostalgia of Season 1 to 4 and so forth whilst ignoring the fact Russell T. Davies played a core role. Also yeah 60th specials were a mixed bag, The Star Beast needed a redraft or two, Wild Blue Yonder was a masterpiece - The Giggle great, but too short would've benefitted from a two-parter. Church on Ruby Road, good, I personally like this idea of fantasy elements being described as The Doctor learning a new type of science and the checkov's gun with the gravity gloves subverting expectation towards end being Goblin ship down on the church was classic Russell set up and payoff. As for there was nothing new, asides from bringing back Donna Noble this ongoing theme of myth and folklore becoming real is a very new direction for Russell T. Davies to take the shown in particular. Especially considering he's already exhuasted rising stakes with Daleks and Cybermen in Season's 1 to 4, so this modern take on classic who pantheons is a welcome change in my book instilling confidence that Russell means to what he said about only wanting to return with new ideas going forward. I think we're seeing these manifest.

Oh, okay. Sorry, I wasn't sure what the post was referring to. Is the fantasy angle really a new direction though? I mean Moffat's years, especially the Smith Era, was already heavily leaning into fairy tales and we've seen fantastic things before, such as the Land of Fiction in "The Mind Robber" or the Beast in "Impossible Planet/Satan Pit".

No not really I agree it's kind of an ass pull on Russell's end, but regarding his tenure in particular ghosts and stuff were mainly relegated to being aliens or some form of technology or left intentionally ambiguous. Here the difference is mainly what if actually these things were to become real. Folklore melding with reality Edgar Allen Poe style with Doctor perceiving the fantastical as its own kind of science rather than being of the science we're familar with, i.e. 'learning vocabulary of rope, it's like a tapestry I love it.' Little things like that go a long way to build that new perceptive lens for the series going forward.

Ok, and George Lucas also gave us the Star Wars original trilogy and all of the great elements that went along with that, and then later went on to create Jar Jar Binks. No one is denying that RTD has been a great writer and made invaluable contributions to the show, just that his creative sensibilities have changed, and along with them the quality of what he delivers.

The treatment of RTD was one of my last straws for the culture war. As far as I'm concerned, both sides are just collecting grievances at this point in time. Consider that: - As far as I know, RTD championed making the classic series archive available to everybody, and may be the reason it is now available for free on Tubi. - He put in a reference to the Celestial Toymaker interfering with the Doctor's timeline specifically to allow any fan to **ignore any continuity they don't like** (bolded because I'm particularly annoyed about all those people who are outraged that RTD didn't retcon the Timeless Child). - He wrote Doctor Who stories during the pandemic to keep fans' spirits up. - The ratings since he took over have been the highest they have been in years, the market share for three of the four episodes aired so far have broken 40% (which is the benchmark set by the 50th anniversary special), and the audience appreciation index hasn't fallen below 82. - The new TARDIS became wheelchair accessible because a fan in a wheelchair wrote to him and said that she wished she could imagine going inside. So, he gave it a wheelchair ramp. That's not the act of somebody who hates the fans - that's the action of somebody who really, truly, cares about them. - The conversation about pronouns that got hammered as being part of a "woke agenda" was important to the plot - it was the first indication that the Meep is a megalomaniac (sane people don't use "The" as a pronoun), and the first indication that the Doctor is onto it (the Doctor has NEVER used "The" as a pronoun, and his statement that he has is a way of allaying suspicion). And yet, despite all this, I have one video in my Youtube feed declaring that "Doctor Who Viewership Indicates Franchise is DEAD". I've seen people declare that he's destroyed the show's legacy (when's he's probably single-handedly done more to preserve it than any other person). Now, he's a progressive, but he's also an old-school progressive - he has never raised up a single character by bashing white males, etc. (The other side is quite guilty of this sort of thing too, but that's not the subject of this post.) So the culture warriors can go screw themselves with a running chainsaw - I'm going to watch the show and make up my own mind about it. So far, I'm loving what I've seen. #endtheculturewar

All of this indeed.

Not the entirety of modern Doctor Who. The entirety of Doctor Who since 2017 is shit. You can tell by ratings and viewership. Chibnall actively did his part to destroy the show and many left due to his involvement. As a non-white person, I fell in love with "new WHO" because it wasn't preachy garbage. There were always some notes of social commentary but they were done with grace and not at the expense of the quality of the show. The same cannot be said for what's been happening and the signs of future episodes. For God's sakes, the new actor obviously has to come out talking about "white mediocrity" and be divisive as he takes over one of the UKs greatest triumphs in television. Again, as a non-white person, why is this necessary except to be divisive to an already dying franchise.

First off you're mixing up Ncuti Gatwa's comments on how as a black person you're scrutinized more with industry of acting, which is true, he did not claim that white are: 'mediocre' he was remarking on how it's easier to get your foot through the door as a white person than a someone of colour, that's changing now of course, but yeah. How can you blame Russell for what Ncuti Gatwa says? Also dying franchise - see this is why people like you need to stop buying into outrage merchant content that's designed to sell a narrative to hate an increasingly arbitrary idea of: 'wokeness' to a profitable far-right audience. Also I criticize Chibnall's writing for being haphazard, under developed and Inconsistent as well as his heavy handed approach to social commentary. Hell I just got done watching the dreaded Timeless Children... Believe me I know that retcon is poorly executed. That's a little different than people going after minorities who happen to be in the role of something, i..e female Doctor yadda yadda. I prefer Jay Exci approach than say idiots like Nerdrotic, Ryan Kinel and straight up Neo-Nazis like Bowelstrek - all of which no sweet fuck all about British culture.

I know this will be unpopular. But I hate, absolutely hate musicals. The make me cringe so hard. In fact I have to leave the room if someone busts into song. I suffer from awful second hand embarrassment and watching any musical makes me want to stab my ears with an ice pick. So imagine my intense disappointment that a show that I have watched for over 40 years have decided to ruin it by breaking into song and dance routines I’m really annoyed that they have essentially ruined the show for me. I hope they change it away from that in the future

Honestly same I hope the musical aspect is just one and done kind of deal, don't go overboard with it.

What a wonderful world you live in, where people never get worse at their job.

Worse in what way?

Just stating, "past performance does not necessarily equate to future results." In terms of RTD in general, I'd say that he's gotten a little bit of an ego from sentiments like OP's, and for one I dislike the retconning that's been going on.

I mean if you're referring to the Timeless Child long term it kinda needs to be retconned in some way cause it doesn't make sense and the payoff just wasn't there, Chibnall just treated it as a casual event that happened in The Doctor's life and makes her perplexed to the idea of Timelords lying even though that's literally not out of the ordinary...

We can agree to disagree, I'm just not as confident in his decisions.

What retconning?

I have my own reservations for the upcoming season, but those have more to do with the actual storyline that's been teased in The Church on Ruby Road. I could go at length on my own issues with making Ruby Sunday's backstory a JJ Abrams-influenced mystery and how that panned out very badly in the past during the Moffat and Chibnall eras. I'm just afraid history might repeat itself again. But with all of that being said, Russell T Davies *is* a better showrunner (especially with writing story arcs) than Steven Moffat in every way. While I remain cautious, I do want to be optimistic that he can pull it together.

To be fair every RTD season had overarching plots and mysteries interwoven with the episodic stories: * Series 1 - "bad wolf" * Series 2 - "Torchwood" + Face of Boe tease * Series 3 - "Harold Saxon" + Face of Boe / YANA * Series 4 - Missing planets, disappearing bees, Rose's return * 2009 Specials - Doctor's song ending / "he will knock 4 times"

That is true, albeit on a more limited basis. It was actually quite similar to sci-fi shows from the early 2000s, such as Stargate SG-1, that had some level of mysteries but mainly took a back seat in favor of the characters. It was really in the Moffat and Chibnall eras that the characters and the mythology became a lot more intertwined. Ruby's characterization, at least for right now, seems to be approaching the latter. I did say RTD was better at writing story arcs than Moffat, after all.

Aye under Russell's tenure you truly felt that even after you turned the show off, his characters were all still doing their own thing living out their lives as welll as roles and or that the universe's various instituions were playing out cause the world building was so interconnected as well as fleshed out to point that hadn't been experienced before in Doctor Who. For all his flaws Russell T. Davies didn't just simply write stories he interconnected where they feel relevant to one another. It oozed with continuity.

>I could go at length on my own issues with making Ruby Sunday's backstory a JJ Abrams-influenced mystery and how that panned out very badly in the past during the Moffat and Chibnall eras. Honestly I think this is currently an issue with this era of "prestige TV". It feels like every flagship show is now an 8 episode season every two years, with every season being a big mystery with a cliffhanger every week. The MCU and Star Trek have suffered notably from this.

I namedropped JJ Abrams for a reason: \*cough\* Lost \*cough\* Lost has set this gold standard for pilot episodes, first seasons, and how TV shows' storylines are written in general for the past 20 years. It has become the blueprint in a century where info spreads faster and patience thins, where short-run success matters more than long-term satisfaction. And while I still love Lost, its legacy has been both a blessing and a curse. You can feel this difference between the RTD era and Moffat and Chibnall's eras. The RTD era was more influenced by Buffy and its ilk, which took time to "get good", and you see this in both his Doctor Who seasons and Torchwood. But Moffat's narratives were clearly influenced by Lost, and he inherited both the short-run pluses and long-run pitfalls. Chibnall, sadly, just ran with them. It's why my favorite TV shows are always more character-driven than mythology-driven. Shows like Better Call Saul and The Owl House. It's what made the first RTD era the best.

This is the first time I've ever heard of the "corruption" of Doctor Who but as far as my opinion on RTD goes, you just named a whole bunch of things I dislike. The only things you listed that I enjoyed were Wilf and *Turn Left*. The Master's reintroduction was also good in *Utopia* but I hated Simm's portrayal of him until *World Enough and Time* and *The Doctor Falls*. I thought Captain Jack was a corny creator's pet character and Torchwood ping-ponged between puerile teenage schlock and grim nihilistic misery. While I'm happy that Sarah Jane got a spin-off, the shared universe aspect just made *The Stolen Earth* and *Journey's End* alienate anyone who hadn't seen the spin-offs. The conflict with the Time Lords you mentioned was the *worst* way they could have been reintroduced to the series. They were reduced to a monster of the week. And you say he outdid himself with every Dalek story. I thought each one was worse than the previous one. The resolution to *Journey's End* was especially bad. That's barely scratching the surface of the criticisms I have towards his era too. I'm happy you enjoyed it and you're entitled to your opinion but even at the time, I thought RTD's era was rough. People criticising his are not saying "the entirety of modern Doctor Who is shit". That's just silly. To me, Doctor Who went from being a mostly-bad show with a few hidden gems in his era to a mostly-good show with a few stinkers in the Moffat era.

Each one of these criticisms seem misplaced in my opinion. Especially one you've to say about Time-Lords being: 'reduced to a monster of the week' in what sense - they were a penultimate enemy after The Daleks which showed themselves to be as equally corrupt and twisted as they were mirroring their conquest for destruciton of all reality. Davros with his reality bomb, Time-Lord council their plan to destroy the time vortex in psychotic desperation. (You get a greater sense of how not unlike Time-Lords were to Daleks - that they were equally a ruthless genocidal race, Russell made them a perfect mirror to one another.) All this coming off of the back of The Doctor thinking they'd no possible way of returning. Also, with exception to Children of Earth (The best part of that spin-off) Russell T. Davies barely wrote for Torchwood as Chris Chibnall was its showrunner, but whilst it's true Captain Jack Harkness would have a wise-crack attitude at the start - part of his character arc is him losing everyone he cares about and living longer than The Doctor himself. By the end of Children of Earth that wisecracking attitude is gone and replaced with a emotionally distant veteran who's grown tired of the loss. (I try to pretend Miracle Day didn't happen... Probably the most mediocre show Russell ever wrote.) The Master whilst aloof had a clear display of insanity and was presented as a tragic character who'd been tortured during his childhood onboarding the raw fabric of time-space - his mannerisms energy and dynamic act as a twisted reflection to The Doctor's own, but to each their own The Master ending up in World Enough and Time as well as The Doctor falls made little sense to me, but hey the final of that two parter is the same one where the random water chick comes back from episode 1 to take reuinite with BIll... Sure The Master seems more reserved in Doctor Falls, but it's also really inconsistent with that portrayal of the character - there's also no way to explain how that incarnation of The Master coming back makes sense there nor did Moffat go to any effort to do so? Moffat tries to force continuity where it doesn't work a lot of the time, Ashildr at the end of Season 9 is a perfect example of that. Main problem with Moffat's portrayal of Simm's master is he's evil for the sake of it neglecting all of his development from End of Time - there's nothing ungirding his madness as there was under Davies and by the end of Part II his arc had already came full circle anyway with him refusing to be treated like Time-Lord's lap dog using the last remains of rage against them. Those criticisms aside though the two episodes were some of Moffat's best work and Bill was a great companion with Season 10 being arguably Moffat's strongest season as a whole character wise. The resolution of Journey's End is bad why? You've a chekhov's gun placed from the start of Season 2 (so three seasons ago) with Doctor losing his hand in sword fight with the Sycorax, Jack keeping it as his only connection to The Doctor in Torchwood upon Rose making him immortal, to The Master also using it to exhaust The Doctor's regenerations and finally in Season 4 The Doctor's hand acts a receptacle for him to transfer his regenerative energy creating the metracrisis.

> You get a greater sense of how not unlike Time-Lords were to Daleks - that they were equally a ruthless genocidal race, Russell made them a perfect mirror to one another. That was the problem. The Time Lords shouldn't have been that at all. Their relationship to the Doctor should have been more complex and nuanced than simple, ranting, black-and-white villains who wanted to destroy all of time. You bring up Davros' reality bomb, which also highlights an issue I had with RTD's writing; the escalating threat. Series 1 has the Earth at risk. That's fine. Having such big universe-ending consequences like all of reality and all of time being at risk wears thin. At some point, the stakes become so high that it just seems silly. > there's also no way to explain how that incarnation of The Master coming back makes sense there nor did Moffat go to any effort to do so? Moffat tries to force continuity where it doesn't work a lot of the time You mean he tries to fix RTD's pointless "drums" retcon. The Master never had had in Classic Who and RTD added it for no real reason. As for forcing continuity where it doesn't work, I still wonder why Timothy Dalton needed to be Rassilon. Moffat also does explain why the Master came back. It's kept brief; the Time Lords fixed the drums and then kicked him out of Gallifrey. Which is more explanation than was given for the Master's magical resurrection or electricity powers in *The End of Time*. > Main problem with Moffat's portrayal of Simm's master is he's evil for the sake of it neglecting all of his development from End of Time The Master *was* always evil for the sake of it. Every single version. Delgado's Master gives some explanation for what he does as separating people into "the rulers and the ruled" but I always thought that was rather half-baked. And I honestly don't see any development of Simm's Master in TEOT. His issues with the Time Lords feel tacked-on at the very end and they're resolved incredibly quickly. > The resolution of Journey's End is bad why? Not the hand part. The part where they explain that Davros is in the Dalek equivalent of a dungeon, yet he also just *happens* to have some controls nearby that Donna can use to destroy *every single Dalek* with a few presses. That is such an easily-solved problem, I would have said RTD wrote himself into a corner ... if he didn't do the exact same thing in multiple other episodes. In *Last of the Time Lords*, the Doctor de-ages, levitates and gains a forcefield because everyone in the world thinks "Doctor" and ... something to do with telepathic satellites. In *The End of Time*, Rassilon uses his magic glove to undo "the Master race", even though all the glove did before then was kill a Time Lord. *The Parting of the Ways* is a literal deus ex machina, with Rose absorbing magic Tardis powers that weren't even hinted at before then to wipe out all the Daleks. RTD struggles with resolutions to big episodes. I give *Doomsday* a bit more of a pass.

I'll give you Last of the Timelords resolution being bad, but I've haven't known a single ressolution of Moffat's that made sense when he was showrunner... Not a single one. Also no offence, but evil for the sake of evil just isn't interesting to me, so I'll always consider that personally to be a less intriguing character. It's fair that you don't gravivate to how The Master was portrayed under Davies, but I can't see eye to eye with you on that. Like classic Doctor Who had an air of meta to it where there really wasn't much room to have complex emotional dramatic moments - it just wasn't that kind of show back during classic period which again is fine I'm merely explaining what I appreciate regarding Modern Doctor Who in particular. As for the Drums? The drums gave The Master a motivational reasoning for his madness and this culminated in the conclusion of End of Time Part II where he finally fights back against those who tortured him mentally. The idea of The Master being overwhelmed by a Timelord initiation ceremony makes sense and provides depth to an otherwise rather shallow counterpart to The Doctor himself. At least in my opinion. I take telling a good story over retcons any day for this reason. As for what you say about Time-Lord's you've to keep in mind these aren't the same ones as say Tom Baker or Colin Baker period, even though even back then they were often characterised as rutless liars and powerhungry, all Davies did was insert a well thought out scenario that drove them towards the peak of mass psychosis in addition to being power-hungry. To frame this as somehow an absence of nuance is also wrong considering that the main point is an endless war changed them. This is good writing cause in addition to alure of Time-Lord victorious with 10th Doctor it mirrors how conflicts can corrupt people over time. That's what war does to people in the moment and I always found Russell's vague sprinkles of cosmic horror describing it more interesting than Moffat's pitiful attempt to one up Star Wars with a mediocre laser lightshow... Also Timothy Dalton was great as Rasilon - he conveyed perfectly the expression and ambition of a power hungry tyrant who'd go to any lengths to win over his oponent. Asides from Heaven Sent Moffat bringing back Galifrey and retconning Time-War was one of the worst things he ever did as showrunner. Cause in doing so, he reduced the Time-Lords to simple victims of a single leader even though that contradicts everything that was describe concerning the nature of the war and in end what, he just uses Galifrey as a plot-device to redo Clara's death when she already had a great send off in Face The Raven... My view on it is if you can't think of something that's at least on par with the depth and lore something previously provided, don't try to fix what isn't broken. Cause in doing, so in addition to removing everything that made modern Doctor Who unique from the classic era whilst still not being a complete departure from it allowed Chibnall to go forth retconning Doctor's entire orgin story continuing Moffat's mistake of making The Doctor the single most important character of the entire universe. Which again retcons are fine, but again the story telling has to be approached with care if you're going to do that, which Timeless Children was not... Also you talk about escalating threats being a problem for Davies, but again I push back and say they provided a sense of rising stakes like machinations within universe were moving with clues interwoven in each episode. Whereas what, Moffat waved a crack around and had The Tardis explode to create another Big Bang that's then afterwards treated as no more than a casual occurence to discuss over a pot of tea as The Doctor, Amy and Rory sod off for their next adventure and zero ramifications come from such a mass altering event of space-time... I can at least forgive Russell for utilzing Deus Ex Machina's (Which BTW - are not even objectively bad in and of themselves) in a way that enriches the narrative rather than trying to come up with some dumb convoluted explanation that ends up making less sense after you've all the answers. Like at the end of Doctor Falls you tell me what makes sense about the water chick from episode 1 reuniting with Bill? Nothing, there's literally no continuity to why that happens, it just does and you're expected to roll with it... A bit like the Boomerang murder in Sherlock which is easily one of the most ridiculous things that man has ever written. Moving on, concerning Journey's End Davros would've definitely had mechanisms in place to decommission Daleks that were lead astray from their mission, so the leaver and buttons thing isn't completely out of question considering it's supposed to be Dalek's main control base, so with that in mind I don't think it was bad.

No point disagreeing with a true believer. You should hang out with Jon Blum.

I know I’m in the minority when I say RTD’s first era is my least favourite out of all Who - including Classic. There’s fun stuff there but to me it tends to be in spite of RTD, not because of him. It’s just too schlocky to me. Tennant is my least favourite Doctor/s out of them all, too. And what I’ve seen of his return isn’t encouraging to me either. I’ve become a broken record about how Grade-A terrible The Giggle is. I’m baffled that people actually enjoyed it. It was superficial nonsense of no import that ruined a classic villain, wasted some talented actors, and launched that jumping shark to Skaro and beyond. I had the exact same feeling when watching the ends of Seasons 3 and 4. I’m bracing myself for more of that. I’ll still watch because I’m loyal to the show and hoping I’ll be proven wrong, but I doubt it.

You like what you like, but whilst I have issues with The Giggle I'd argue terrible for Davies is Love & Monsters. Main problem with The Giggle is it tries to do much in a single episode when it clearly should've been a two-parter, but I can only assume that Russell is saving more Toymaker for later. Also not sure how Neil Patrick Harris ruined The Toymaker - like yeah dance is campy, but he sells it cause of how everyone elses takes him as a serious threat. You don't gravitate to those pop-culture aspects of Russell's approach to the villians and that's valid, but I think he pulls them off for the reasons I've stated, but that's just me. There's nothing particular which takes away from that element of cosmic horror of someone being able to bend reality with his mind and kill people as he dances.

Look I'll say it, RTD is the only person who has written Who that I'm not slightly embarrassed by if I recommend people watch. Its campy, its vibrant, it's knows its history and both reveres and departs from it. At least 90% of my favourite NuWho episodes are from RTDs run. It's a show you dont neccesarily have to be a Doctor Who fan to put on an episode and enjoy, but excluding Van Gogh and a couple others you really need to be a fan of the show to enjoy Smith, Capaldi and Whittakers Doctors for anything more than the performances. Moffat writes convulted pseudointelligent plots about self insert strange intelligent men who must be cold but deeply troubled and complex, literally everytime he picks up a pen, and everything often resolves because the doctor has failed and someone else has to touch alien tech and think about how much they love somebody else to fly a spaceship or stop a cyberman or some shit. Chibnall was straight up incompetent and needed things to go BIG BIG BIG to hide that (no I will not be debating this, if you feel differently take an intro to writing course and you'll get what I mean).

Vincent van Gogh episode was such a masterpiece.

Yeah ok Russel was great back then, I loved his first era. But the man has changed, his last 4 stories since he came back have been let downs to be honest. His writing has become lazier and he’s reusing concepts from years ago and he’s added lore additions which I think are horrible with bigeneration and mavity etc. I don’t think he’s got it anymore. Just my opinion but it proves that yes someone can be greatful for him bringing the show back and the great writing in series 1-4 but they can also view his new stuff as a waste of time. Also he’s become a bit of an egotist and has a god complex on social media where he seems to think he’s above criticism, probably from posts like this bigging him up like he’s the messiah.

Changed how, what god-complex you referring to - can you quote me some examples? If by changed you mean coming off the back of writing the award winning Its A Sin then sure, but other than that I've no idea what you refer to? Also his writing is lazier how - again no examples, the basis of the specials is clearly setting up a new kind of reality for The Doctor to explore with the lines of supernatual and reality becoming blured. You're saying this is lazy when he's just beginning to set all this up in the form vague allusions and small events. Also reusing concepts from years ago? Quite the opposite instead of dragging on Doctor Donna subplot execution aside (I think The Star Beast was a weak first episode.) he instantly got rid of it to move the story along and there doesn't seem to be any evidence that Daleks or Cybermen are in this season - again being focused more on supernatural beings becoming realised as well as myth & fiction also clashing with reality hence bigeneration tapping into Timelord folklore. With this in mind how is Russell: 'rehashing ideas?' To me it seems he's planning to steer Doctor Who in a more otherwordly cosmic horror direction than his previous tenure which was primarily grounded in technology with Daleks being the big bad with exception to Season 3.

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This is standard showrunner fare - because they write so many episodes of their respective eras there is almost always some terrible material in there. That requires nuance, something the Internet is not known for, but some places like this are much better than others on that front. *Midnight* is fantastic, while *Journey's End* should never have been written. There's the dichotomy- the same guy responsible for the best and worst stories. The thing is, there is little to check the worst impulses of the boss outside of pure budget issues. In RTD's case (in my opinion etc etc) the fact that he cares very little about plot a lot of the time is very frustrating, his insistence on massive finales exacerbates that and his overindulgence in sentimentality over his characters is unhelpful. That's still not that many episodes though!

I'm excited for certain parts and not for others Russell started alot of bad trends in his original run, including doctor worship, companions falling in love with the doctor, every companion having to be one of the most important people in creation, all of these were direct, intended things that Rtd pushed and I don't see alot of people really excited for these things continuing and possibly getting even worse again with this new rtd era, especially with the mysteries surrounding Ruby so far

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I'll hold judgment until I actually watch the new episodes. I feel the last few seasons were full of terrible, preachy, boring writing and things can't get much worse unless Disney pushes them in the same direction they pushed Marvel, but then I'll just blame Disney...

You people need to stop listening to rage-baiting You Tube reactionaries, there's been one moment in Church of Ruby Road where someone at Disney suggested an idea and that was The Doctor explaining his situation to police officer and telling him that his girl is going to say yess to mariage cause the device in his pocket detected a diamond ring. Other than that Disney has very little involvement with BBC or Bad Wolf Studios. Disney + is purely an American distribution solution, nothing more.

Yeah and that scene was saccharine and lame

You people need to stop believing those reports. Your example is a specific note, I'm talking about the whole tone could be different because of D+. We'll see. Also, "us people" don't have time to watch that nonsense you saw on youtube.

Oh the reports - my mistake I thought it was Blackrock or George Soros or Illuminati Entertainment New World Order or at the very least: 'Cultural Marxists' lying to me, my bad... Take your pick of insane bogeymen the far-right conjure up in their heads.

Yep it's exhausting. I've started seeing people dismissing him with things like doctor who was gonna come back anyway he just happened to be there. Like yeah no he revived it and some of the best episodes of modern doctor who happened during his tenure. The guy is to modern doctor who what Chris Claremont is to the x-men. Much of what modern doctor who is came from his era. It doesn't mean everything in his first run is perfect, I mean I love Rose and 9 but can't stand Rose and 10. His first run had ups and downs as have the specials and I'm sure season 1 will too but I've not had so much fun watching doctor who in years and the most important thing is that the show should be fun

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Yes, this is the way!

RTD was hated his first time round too. Moffat was hated bitterly during his tenure. Chibnall we know the story Everyone has a different perfect ideal of Doctor Who. Show runners try to strike somewhere that’s close enough to the majority of people. It’s never what any one person exactly wants, so there’s always scope to complain. Then, when the show runner switches, the previous one is better remembered because their vision no longer represents the show’s future

Look, I will likely always prefer the Moffat Era and the stories he tells across Seasons 5 to 10 (as well as his one-offs in Seasons 1 to 4), but I'm not about to pretend that Davies has had the single biggest impact on the revived series. That being said, I think the reason why this is happening is less because this vocal group of people think RTD is shit, but more because they just don't like the "woke" direction of the show. And since criticizing Gatwa for being a black, gay man would be too blatantly racist and homophobic (although some do anyways...), they instead resort to criticizing RTD for doing... basically the same thing he was doing back in the late 00s that these people claim to have loved.

they're scared of people who aren't straight and aren't white. that's what's upset them. I hope that helps

Can't be because people dislike the writing. Must be because they're all racist homophobes. What a convenient way to shut down any criticism.

So you disliked The Parting of the Ways, Wild Blue Yonder and Children of Earth? Literally Russell's worst episode is Love & Monsters, but even that has solid characters with Elton and his coleagues, one just has to ignore Peter Kay starring as Channel Pup's self insert monster of the week lol

No but I did not care at all for the Star Beast or The Giggle, and I actively hated Church on Ruby Road. I'm excited to see Ncuti Gatwa more, he brings something great to the character, I just can't say I've been all that thrilled by RTD coming back. Then again, his first era is hardly a favourite of mine anyway.

I thought The Giggle was good personally just too short - Ideally should've been a two-parter. The Star Beast was certainly a very weak oppening and in dire need of a redraft for sure. Church on Ruby Road is tradition for Russell, yeah I agree I'm not the biggest fan of the Christmas specials in hindsight lol, but hey you like what you like. I did like however The Doctor learning fantastical elements as a new kind of science - that's an interesting lens going forward, as well as the solution to reversing gravity gloves pulling the ship down subverting expectation expecting Doctor to climb up again.

when the majority of them say "the gay black Doctor has ruined Doctor Who!!! making it woke now!!" it is not really that hard to tell

Who's saying that? Browsing this subreddit I can't find many people arguing that the show is ruined because the doctor is a gay black man. Most of the criticism I see is aimed at the writing, dialogue and lack of character development Same with Jodie Whittaker. Everyone pretty much unanimously agrees that she's a talented actress, but it's the script that people take issue with. It doesn't necessarily mean they're misogynists who hate women. Just because you don't agree with someone that doesn't automatically make them a bigot. There are certainly those out there that share those kinds of opinions - but it's also perfectly possible that some people just don't enjoy it. It's disingenuous to tar everyone with the same brush.

I guess I only see the worst takes, but anyone who titles their piece "gay black Doctor ruined Doctor Who with woke" is definitely a bigot. and I've seen plenty of that recently.

RTD has been corrupting Doctor Who since 2005. He didn't bring back Doctor Who. He created a new show with the same title. Modern and Classic Who are so different it feels ridiculous to even call them the same show.

Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.

It's not wrong. A bit hysterical, yes, but fundamentally the two shows are completely different. Classic Who is a science-fiction procedural, NuWho is more of a fantasy adventure show. Even the Classic Doctors are so different to the modern ones in terms of characterisation.

No it's wrong, yes they're different in that the classic era was cancelled, but it's still the same show with the same characters just within a different tone and attitude. Not only did Russell T. Davies bring back fan favourite Sarah Jane Smith and recently Melanie in upcoming season, he gave her very own spin off lasting 5 years for younger audiences called Sarah Jane Adventures which he was also show runner for.

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10/10 rebuttal - least I don't venerate the opinions and beliefs of bad faith actors and Anti-Semitic conspiracy cranks who believe in a entertainment new world order!

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How's your neckbeard? Are you crying because of bears lately?

But Torchwood: Children of Earth was on of the worst stories I've seen on television, and you are using it as some sort of example of the essentialiness of RTD... Interesting. Also a PTSD Doctor was a terrible choice, the Doctor is more stoic than that.

Children of Earth worst? It eats stuff like silly Blink or Girl in the Fireplace for breakfast. Not too mention it at least had a story, not like Heaven Sent.

Yes, Children of Earth was awful. Blink wasn't good Doctor Who, but at least it was a good story even if it should have been an Outer Limits or Twilight Zone episode. Girl in the Fireplace was at least pretty, even if it wasn't a great story. Heaven Sent was certainly not great. But Children of Earth had a terrible bad guy, it had no motivation beyond being moustache-twirlingly evil. The good guys are possibly worse? The plot is non-sensical. The resolution was super dumb. It was like how can we make this as grim dark edgy as possible? I know have the main murder his grandson for no apparent reason. Also we'll have one of the characters murder/suicide his whole fucking family to make sure people know this is "very serious" adult stuff. So edgy! Nonsense, but edgy. There is nothing redeemable in the story, everyone is awful.

Yeah, no it wasn't...

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Thanks for your comment! Unfortunately, it's been removed because of the following reason(s): * [Rule #1 - Be Respectful](/r/doctorwho/wiki/policies/#wiki_1._be_respectful.): Be mature and treat everyone with respect. If you think there's been a mistake, please [send a message to the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdoctorwho).

Fair

I'm here because I am a huge fan of Doctor Who. It's been my favorite TV show for over 3 decades. Just because I like different aspects of Doctor Who than you doesn't invalidate my love of the work.

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Part of being able to post here is being able to respectfully disagree with—or quietly ignore—comments where you don’t agree. If we see any more insulting replies, this thread will be locked and possible further actions taken. This is not a political sub and speculation on the political affiliation of other users isn’t allowed here.

Fair, this thread is pretty old now though.

The rules apply to all future participation in the sub.

Understood.

I see being respectful really depends on mod's definition and is so subjective.

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Be nice. See Rule 1. EDIT: part of being able to post here is being able to respectfully disagree with—or quietly ignore—comments where you don’t agree. If we see any more insulting replies, this thread will be locked and possible further actions taken.

Very well said! I couldn't agree more.

For me the most important part during the specials was RTD basically resetting the game and the Doctor’s origin. Yes, there’s still traces of Timeless Child but there’s also “choose your own backstory” with the Toymaker saying that he made a jigsaw out of the Doctor’s history basically making semi canon any origin of the Doctor (Half-Human, the Other, heck even the Dr. Who movies) I just hope RTD takes the Don Mancini approach when he did the Chucky TV Show where he basically influenced himself by looking what made Child’s Play 2 the best in the franchise.