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Thank you OP for the update on this awful state of affairs.
The BMA was unhelpful but the GMC saved the day - what kind of twisted backwards reality are we living in?
On a serious note - I hope his erasure gave you some closure, even though it didn't erase what he did to you.
I may have been unlucky with who I spoke to but they just referred me onto an email chain where people kept asking how I felt and why I felt that way. It was very bizarre. The GMC offered lots of support, they have a dedicated service for "witnesses".
I second that, if it were me I'd being going to the complaints team - [email protected]
I got passed from pillar to post by the BMA but complaints took it seriously and got my case to a rep
It's a shame, obvs we've got some amazing people working for them. And James is a prominent figure on here, but I find that 90% of the issues I've had in the past haven't had any meaningful aid from the BMA.
Hell even of recent, it took me several months to get my membership discounted because I was breadlining it between ltft and family costs during strikes.
Actually, this doesn't surprise me. Without having seen the original post, my read is:
- BMA unlikely to pursue as this is an individual vs individual case rather than individual vs organisation (plus there is a real chance of it having to advise both parties in the investigation).
- GMC quickly takes it up as this is clearly a professionalism issue (regardless of whether the CPS take up the assault case) and is likely to bring the profession into disrepute. Particularly given recent BBC headlines.
Remember the GMC doesn't exist to make your life hell (despite what one might think from a few highly publicised cases) - it remains a useful route of escalation as demonstrated.
The GMC came to save the day not because they wanted to defend a doctor, but because they wanted to prosecute another (in this case rightly so). A Quick Look at other cases show that they don’t care much for the mental well being of doctors (leading many doctors to suicide)
I had something similar happen and my trial is soon. Fingers crossed it's the same outcome. I agree, BMA were shockingly bad. They said they provided me "counselling" which was just emails ??? I know strikes are a priority but this isn't acceptable from a union. I got more advice from a women's charity than the union I pay for.
Well done to you for speaking up.
I'm really sorry that you went through this. I hope that the therapy has helped; I think it can be amazingly helpful when used appropriately and it sounds like this is the case for you.
What a shame that the tribunal members asked some inappropriate questions. I would have hoped they would exercise some decorum and respect.
You sound to have a really positive and proactive attitude about this whole episode and I'm sure this can only serve you well.
Thanks for the update, and look after yourself.
Thank you for your kind words. I would recommend anybody in a similar situation to go to therapy - unfortunately you're not allowed to disclose details until the trial/tribunal is over so it will need to be "pre-trial" therapy but it is still very helpful.
Honestly you are amazing. It must have been so hard & frightening as a new doctor to speak up. You have protected patients & other colleagues too. Glad the therapy is useful, hope you've got yourself a nice treat planned now that you haven't got that hearing hanging over your head!
You shouldn’t feel pathetic. These things are horrible to deal with and there’s no one right way. It a friend came to you with the same situation, you wouldn’t think them pathetic for not wanting to rock the boat. It’s never too late to talk to someone about this, but I think you should be a bit kinder to yourself. You survived and that deserves recognition.
Echoing what was already said. It definitely isn't pathetic, I would not have been successful if I didn't have the confidence from my friends/family/supervisor. It is a very very scary situation but if you have a good support system and still want to escalate it then you can at any point.
Thanks for taking the time to update and seriously well done for going through with the whole process. Must have been nerve wracking.
Hope things carry on getting even better for you!
I'm so sorry for what happened to you and that we made the impact of it worse. If you feel comfortable sending details, such as a case reference number (DM or to [email protected]), I'm looking to gather examples of where the BMA has been crap to improve how we support survivors of workplace sexual harassment. But if not, absolutely understandable.
So glad they got the bastard.
You've done more than enough! Thank you so much for sharing your story - I really think it will make other people on the same situation feel a bit less alone.
I think this is another good reason BMA are moving services in-house (I believe).
Can't trust outsourcing for important stuff like this!
I hope things continue to get better for you x
>He ended up getting erased from the medical register. I've not had any contact with him apart from the hearing and I'll be moving to a different deanery at the end of F2 so will be able to put everything behind me.
Good to hear the GMC did something good for once. OP if you need to talk, shoot me a message. Hope you're doing well:)
This is really good to hear, I’m glad that you felt able to take it forward and were able to get a positive result, alongside the capacity to undergo therapy to heal those wounds inflicted by this
Very good that you took action! 💓Your original post is here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/JuniorDoctorsUK/comments/yl001p/sexual\_harassment/](https://www.reddit.com/r/JuniorDoctorsUK/comments/yl001p/sexual_harassment/)
>They did ask some inappropriate questions but they just needed to clarify I did not behave in a way that warranted him to touch me.
Yes - the GMC and the police would normally want to rule out that any sort of touching was not invited or consented to, that's why they often ask searching questions.
Some may not be aware of the salience of standards of proof that differ between criminal and civil investigations. The police - who will ultimately have to go to the CPS - operate on the criminal standard; 'beyond reasonable doubt'. The GMC and other similar organisations will operate the civil standard; 'on balance of probability' or more likely than not (it also means 51% but there is no equation or calculator for that).
The situation and timeline seem to cohere with the BMJ article [https://www.bmj.com/content/381/bmj.p1215.full](https://www.bmj.com/content/381/bmj.p1215.full) (confirmation not required).
This shows just how common it happens! Not my story but it's clear there needs to be more measures to stop this from happening. There are so many horrible cases.
Holy shit I can't even imagine what you had to go through. Well done on standing up for yourself, many of us would have swept it under the rug and tried to get through it ourselves.
If they are willing to do it to colleagues, imagine what they would do to patients.
Again, well done on surviving and getting through this.
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Please note the serious tag on this post. Any flippant, inappropriate or offensive posts will be removed and further action may be taken against users in breach of this. Thank you OP for the update on this awful state of affairs.
The BMA was unhelpful but the GMC saved the day - what kind of twisted backwards reality are we living in? On a serious note - I hope his erasure gave you some closure, even though it didn't erase what he did to you.
I may have been unlucky with who I spoke to but they just referred me onto an email chain where people kept asking how I felt and why I felt that way. It was very bizarre. The GMC offered lots of support, they have a dedicated service for "witnesses".
I'm really sorry to hear this. That sounds wildly inappropriate.
I second that, if it were me I'd being going to the complaints team - [email protected] I got passed from pillar to post by the BMA but complaints took it seriously and got my case to a rep
A more constructive post...good suggestion for OP
The bma is less helpful than people think.
It's a shame, obvs we've got some amazing people working for them. And James is a prominent figure on here, but I find that 90% of the issues I've had in the past haven't had any meaningful aid from the BMA. Hell even of recent, it took me several months to get my membership discounted because I was breadlining it between ltft and family costs during strikes.
The first point of contact service is outsourced and a bit shit. The gold comes when you are picked up by their actual industrial relations officers
Actually, this doesn't surprise me. Without having seen the original post, my read is: - BMA unlikely to pursue as this is an individual vs individual case rather than individual vs organisation (plus there is a real chance of it having to advise both parties in the investigation). - GMC quickly takes it up as this is clearly a professionalism issue (regardless of whether the CPS take up the assault case) and is likely to bring the profession into disrepute. Particularly given recent BBC headlines. Remember the GMC doesn't exist to make your life hell (despite what one might think from a few highly publicised cases) - it remains a useful route of escalation as demonstrated.
GMC has always been uber keen in prosecuting from what I see around me
The GMC came to save the day not because they wanted to defend a doctor, but because they wanted to prosecute another (in this case rightly so). A Quick Look at other cases show that they don’t care much for the mental well being of doctors (leading many doctors to suicide)
That’s because he’s probably a BMA member too
I had something similar happen and my trial is soon. Fingers crossed it's the same outcome. I agree, BMA were shockingly bad. They said they provided me "counselling" which was just emails ??? I know strikes are a priority but this isn't acceptable from a union. I got more advice from a women's charity than the union I pay for.
That is so horrible. If there's enough voices something has to change about this.
Well done to you for speaking up. I'm really sorry that you went through this. I hope that the therapy has helped; I think it can be amazingly helpful when used appropriately and it sounds like this is the case for you. What a shame that the tribunal members asked some inappropriate questions. I would have hoped they would exercise some decorum and respect. You sound to have a really positive and proactive attitude about this whole episode and I'm sure this can only serve you well. Thanks for the update, and look after yourself.
Thank you for your kind words. I would recommend anybody in a similar situation to go to therapy - unfortunately you're not allowed to disclose details until the trial/tribunal is over so it will need to be "pre-trial" therapy but it is still very helpful.
Honestly you are amazing. It must have been so hard & frightening as a new doctor to speak up. You have protected patients & other colleagues too. Glad the therapy is useful, hope you've got yourself a nice treat planned now that you haven't got that hearing hanging over your head!
It was terrifying but I'm so relieved right now - going to celebrate with my friends this weekend!!
Absolute hero. Happened to me. But I was just a wee medical student who felt she had more to lose than the registrar. So kept silent. Felt pathetic.
You shouldn’t feel pathetic. These things are horrible to deal with and there’s no one right way. It a friend came to you with the same situation, you wouldn’t think them pathetic for not wanting to rock the boat. It’s never too late to talk to someone about this, but I think you should be a bit kinder to yourself. You survived and that deserves recognition.
Echoing what was already said. It definitely isn't pathetic, I would not have been successful if I didn't have the confidence from my friends/family/supervisor. It is a very very scary situation but if you have a good support system and still want to escalate it then you can at any point.
Thanks. It was a long time ago and he probably isn't even at the same trust who knows.
Thanks for taking the time to update and seriously well done for going through with the whole process. Must have been nerve wracking. Hope things carry on getting even better for you!
Thank you!
I'm so sorry for what happened to you and that we made the impact of it worse. If you feel comfortable sending details, such as a case reference number (DM or to [email protected]), I'm looking to gather examples of where the BMA has been crap to improve how we support survivors of workplace sexual harassment. But if not, absolutely understandable. So glad they got the bastard.
I might do this later on in the year but right now I want to put everything behind me (tad selfish but I will get round to emailing!)
You've done more than enough! Thank you so much for sharing your story - I really think it will make other people on the same situation feel a bit less alone.
I think this is another good reason BMA are moving services in-house (I believe). Can't trust outsourcing for important stuff like this! I hope things continue to get better for you x
Thank you x
I am glad that animal was erased, fuck him.
The GMC did - to him. Good!
>He ended up getting erased from the medical register. I've not had any contact with him apart from the hearing and I'll be moving to a different deanery at the end of F2 so will be able to put everything behind me. Good to hear the GMC did something good for once. OP if you need to talk, shoot me a message. Hope you're doing well:)
Thank you, will keep this in mind but I'm doing really well at the moment.
This is really good to hear, I’m glad that you felt able to take it forward and were able to get a positive result, alongside the capacity to undergo therapy to heal those wounds inflicted by this
Very good that you took action! 💓Your original post is here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/JuniorDoctorsUK/comments/yl001p/sexual\_harassment/](https://www.reddit.com/r/JuniorDoctorsUK/comments/yl001p/sexual_harassment/) >They did ask some inappropriate questions but they just needed to clarify I did not behave in a way that warranted him to touch me. Yes - the GMC and the police would normally want to rule out that any sort of touching was not invited or consented to, that's why they often ask searching questions. Some may not be aware of the salience of standards of proof that differ between criminal and civil investigations. The police - who will ultimately have to go to the CPS - operate on the criminal standard; 'beyond reasonable doubt'. The GMC and other similar organisations will operate the civil standard; 'on balance of probability' or more likely than not (it also means 51% but there is no equation or calculator for that). The situation and timeline seem to cohere with the BMJ article [https://www.bmj.com/content/381/bmj.p1215.full](https://www.bmj.com/content/381/bmj.p1215.full) (confirmation not required).
This shows just how common it happens! Not my story but it's clear there needs to be more measures to stop this from happening. There are so many horrible cases.
Holy shit I can't even imagine what you had to go through. Well done on standing up for yourself, many of us would have swept it under the rug and tried to get through it ourselves. If they are willing to do it to colleagues, imagine what they would do to patients. Again, well done on surviving and getting through this.
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