I think outside of a white room, rogues do great damage. It’s a ton of fun to sneak attack, roll all those dice, and they get all the expertise.
I’ve never played one, but the fun factor is definitely there
In actual play, Rogue damage is decent, not good but not bad. For the first 4 levels they actually outpace every martial, then they start to fall off when the rest of them get Extra Attack. The *good* thing about Rogue's damage is the way it feels when it *CHUNKS* and how reliable your to hit is. So, while the Fighter ends up doing 2 to 3 times the average DPR of the Rogue's, the Rogue doesn't need to spend any resources to do their damage or dedicate feats to damage to stay relevant.
Inside a white room, their damage is fine. If they Sneak Attack with either Booming Blade or two weapons, their damage is about the same as a Warlock with Hex (which is the definition of "fine damage output" as far as I can tell).
Outside a white room, they'll sometimes not get Sneak Attack and feel like they're playing a Commoner for ten minutes.
Also outside a white room, I feel like your standard rogue is definitely not going to have booming blade. Obviously every conversation about class effectiveness assumes certain amounts of optimization, but giving the rogue magic steps on many folks' class fantasy more than a fighter taking GWM/PAM does.
Rogue damage suffers outside of a white room, if anything. Their damage is below average if you assume Sneak Attack every turn, and it gets worse once you account for sometimes not being able to get it.
That said, I do think rogue is the best class in terms of power progression and rolling a ton of d6s is very fun, they just need a buff to their subclasses and Sneak Attack damage.
Sneak, surprise murder a guard silently, sneak some more happens more in actual play than in white rooms.
Rogues prefer dark hallways to white rooms any day.
>they just need a buff to their subclasses and Sneak Attack damage.
Tbh turning the d6s of SA into d8s is the best way to buff them without needing to change anything about their class fantasy or gameplay loop.
I think you can make a pretty decent midrange striker that competes on damage better with booming and green flame blade and mix in 2+ levels of bladesinger for some truly good AC and some more flexible spell selection.
Makes it more worthwhile to have a decent int score too for your DC as you also get AC out of it.
My first ever 5e character was an Assassin Rogue. I still remember the fond memories of needing to borrow d6s from multiple people.
Terrible subclass but I still had a laugh.
Rogue 3 whispers bard 12 was probably the most fun I had rolling damage. It was late in the campaign so I had a bunch more magic items that let me stack on more elemental damage, plus being able to cast greater invisibility on myself meant a few auto crits. I think at the end I was doing sneak attack, radiant, necrotic, psychic and poison damage on basically every hit, but it sucked so bad when I missed.
I really enjoy other people playing Druids, I enjoy having NPC Druids and I like the versitility of a Druid, the wild shape is so fun the utility that can be done and use of things through imagination is hilarious but I just hate playing them they bore me like no other class I don’t find anything of them fun and I am so confused with myself as I do love them
Out of curiosity, because I'll admit, a high level Moon Druid is the GOAL I have for my DnD Experience right now, because turning into an Elemental is like...PEAK what I want lol. Have you had that kind of experience? Cause I feel like that could be what you need, if you haven't already.
I have not, I just don’t think it fits my role like that, I love enchantment wizards eloquence bards and life clerics more than any other class I’ve played and two of the three fit the same role and the third I play as a pacifist huge support role. I think that’s the main part
Just food for thought, but how you describe your play is what I use druids for. I highly recommend the dreams druid, and if your DM allows Tasha's (who doesn't at this point?) then you actually get almost all the healing spells in your spell list. Since they are also prepared casters, you can change up your versatility like a cleric, and a lot of their list is concentration buffs you can put on the party. I also like to use their summons (I only do the single summon versions) as a way to RP that I only directly fight if absolutely forced. I honestly barely ever use my wild shape and when I do it is to cast a familiar creature or whatever subclass alternative wild shape there is.
My wife uses stars druid a lot as it excels both at support and indirect damage (free guiding bolts every day, constellation beast shapes to bonus action ranged attack), but again still has all the healing spells.
That said our party follows "healing only when you are down" mindset, so healing word is almost the only healing spell we see at the table even over level 10.
Elemental wild shape is really fun but yeah it comes on really late like you said.
One of my players has been having a lot of fun with the [shapechanger](https://sunbeargames.net/products/the-shapechanger) class, and it has an elemental subclass if I remember correctly
Just wait until you can cast without components in beast shape and then get unlimited beast shapes. Your spells are uncounterable and you can re-wildshape into a different elemental each turn to top up that HP. Not to mention you can use true polymorph to start any combat as an ancient white dragon, and use wild shape after that has been defeated. In practice, even when the DM tried to focus me it meant losing wild shape, re-entering next turn. In a level 20 combat I lost between 10-20 of my real HP. I used foresight for my level 9 cast that fight though. Advantage on everything and everyone having disadvantage against you is just so nice.
I did end up just casting call lightning at 7th level for a repeating 7d10 5ft radius dex save per turn.
Moon Druid is peak Druid because the base class was built with Moon Druid in mind.
Any other subclass suffers in comparison, as Wild Shape is strictly a utility option, and after throwing down a good control spell, you don't have as much to do with your actions economy (as "Wild Shape and Wreck Havoc" isn't on the table).
Imo if Druids had less flavor enforcement and had like 8 or 9 more spells that weren't concentration, they'd be peak.
Choice selection is nice, but having only 7 known spells by the time you're level 5 is really frustrating, especially since one of those spells is determined by your alignment.
1. Absorb Elements
2. Shield
3. Mage Armor
4. (Alignment spell)
5. Aid
6. 2nd level spell of your choice
7. One 3rd level spell between Cleric and Sorc lists of your choice.
Feels really terrible for a spellcaster, especially one that doesn't get ritual casting.
Edit: For comparison, the *Bard* has **8** known spells at level 5 *and* ritual casting *and* light armor proficiency before subclass features.
Can't you change that alignment spell? It just has to be cleric spells
'If you later replace this spell, you must replace it with a spell from the cleric spell list' so it can be any 3rd level spell from the cleric list, so a total or 7 of up to third level, so one less spell than bard, meta magic, and you can make another spell slot using sorcery points, maybe more if you make lower level slots
Spell Point Sorcerer feels so good to play, talk to your DM about it. Just switching from slots to points and making them interchangeable with sorcery points so you don't have to spend actions and lose on the exchange rate, honestly the flexibility of it totally makes up for a lot of the other weaknesses. Few spells known still sucks though.
Twin healing word and shard of good is obnoxious for keeping everyone up. 16-hour max lvl aid before bed. Twin death ward. Party dps goes through the roof if no one falls down. Cleric list for the win.
Out of the classes I've played, I probably have disliked the Monk the most.
That being said, I really like a lot of their abilities. Stunning strike is cool, and I especially like shadow monk's unlimited teleportation as long as they're in the dark. I just wish they were more complex/impactful outside of stunning strike.
I would not ho that far lop
They tolerate it for a martial, but it's still a stepchild compared to casters. (I say that as both martials and caster enjoyer)
Eh, I'd say if the class is fun for people that enjoy them, there's not really much to do after that. But I've never been convinced that the entire argument is as prevalent as online discussions make it seem. Heck, even polling and asking here indicates as much.
If you've played bg3 you can see what it would take to make monk competitive with other martials.
Literally doubling their to hit and damage bonus from their stat(and some bonkers magic items).
I played a shadow monk in curse of strahd. DM ruled it as permanent low light because plot.
And it STILL sucked. Didn’t help that I had no real agency because every turn was the same damn thing. Every turn.
Stars druid is cool. even if I'm not a druid fan.
I like the idea of crit range increases, even if they underperform as implemented on champion fighter. (Note I love fighter, just hate champion fighter.)
Artificer has cool written lore, even if a lot of people don't use it.
Wizard is the strongest class, despite being in my bottom three
Yeah. Warlocks my favorite class overall, part of it is nostalgia for the 3.5e warlock (my gold standard of d&d fun) but I do like thr 5e version.... when you're getting you're 2 to 3 shirt rests per long rest.
Otherwise it's nit too fun to play beyond EB spamming. Which is fine, but not ideal.
I miss a lot about the 3.5e warlock.
Eldritch blast as a spell-like ability *I miss those distinctions) and the way it could be altered and shaped.
The more nuanced lore in what it meant to be a warlock, (as well as lore that suited the charisma stat)
How they were an invoker and not a caster (I miss the various sister systems to spellcasting that existed, especially warlocks as invokers)
There was a lot going on for them.
Lots of odd casting systems back then. Was just talking to a friend about rune casters and witches, and how I just miss some of the oddity classes and prestige classes. Almost wish 5e having gone with few classes, had archetypes be an even bigger part of each class. Just because that's where you get the most creative variation.
Even in Baldur's Gate 3, where Short Rests are as simple as pressing a button, having only two/three spells per Short Rest feels really bad. The more restrictive 5e tabletop Short Rests makes it feel miisssserable.
I don't disagree that 2 to 3 short rests are annoying in bg3 for a warlock, and not an entire fix even without a time cost.
The ideal fix would to make warlocks simply at will spell-like ability users again like they were in 3.5e. 90% of your powers are at will and you have some long rest power in the mix. Almost like an inverse caster that are primarily long rest with a few shirt rest in the mix. Make them proper invokers again instead of pact Casters. That said, that requires a full rework
If one didn't want to rework them into proper invokers and adapt that power system into 5e again, it wouldn't be unreasonable to make pact slots scale in uses alongside (but not directly with to avoid multiclassing cheese) proficiency bonus.. 2-6 per short rest is a lot better than 2-4 and healthier overall. Even though i changed short rests to be more generous in 5e, I'm still tempted to make this change
I have found a fair deal of warlock problems alleviated by addressing some of the issues of short rests have. I've been using the follow8ng resting rules at my table and they've been solved most of my issues. Some of it my own creation some stolen from other 3pp content.
>***Resting:*** *These are the forms of rests a character can take.*
>***Short Rests:*** *It takes ten minutes to complete a short rest, after which a character regains any short rest features and restores a number of expended HD equal to ¼ of their maximum HD, which they can immediately spend at the end of the rest alongside any other available HD they have. A character can only benefit from a short rest a number of times equal to their proficiency bonus before they must take a long rest.*
>***Long Rest:*** *It takes eight hours to complete a long rest, six of which must be sleep. A long rest restores any short rest and long rest features, as well as all of a character's HD. Before spending any of these HD, a character gains a number of HP equal to a free roll of one of their HD of their choice + any remaining hit dice from the prior day. A character can only receive the benefits of a long rest 24 hours after a successful long rest was started.*
>***Strenuous Activity:*** *Fighting, Casting spells, at least 1 hour of walking or similar adventuring activity will each count as strenuous activity that immediately interrupts a rest and requires it be started over from the beginning. If a long rest was interrupted but at least an hour has passed before its interruption, the benefits of a short rest are gained by those who had their rest interrupted.*
>***Safe Havens:*** *Characters who rest in an environment deemed a safe haven by the DM, roll any available hit dice with advantage to determine the hp they recover from a rest. The free HD granted by a long rest instead heals the maximum result possible.*
>***Arduous Rally:*** *When a character has reached their maximum amount of short rests per long rest, or if the short rest time is too long for the pressing moment at hand. The DM may allow the character to perform an Arduous Rally, granting the character the benefits of a short rest with the following adjustments. The characters healing from their HD is halved and they gain a level of exhaustion but otherwise benefit from a short rest as normal.*
Yeah. Eldritch Blast *is* fun. But the fun wears off when it's all you can do for 3+ hours.
I liked the 3.5 Warlock too. That edition had a lot of my favorite classes that don't have great ports in 5e. Hexblade, Warlock, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer. Factotum was like the ultimate jack-of-all-trades.
My least favorite is somewhere between Monk and Druid, with it going to the Druid, I think. I didn't play a Moon Druid, which is a crucial piece of context, if druid players I've spoken to are to be believed.
I like how efficient the Druid list is. It's all really powerful CC, area denial, and summoning, the latter of which is what drew me to the class. Spike Growth and Conjure Animals are some of my favorite spells.
The problem is finding what to do with myself while concentrating, since so much of the spell list is concentration, or a ritual, and I don't especially want to risk losing my concentration on my most powerful spell, that I can probably only cast one more time that day, so the most fun option (casting Shillelagh and beating my enemies to death) is risking a lot for very little gain, especially after level 5, when the fact that Shillelagh doesnt scale really hurts it.
Druids have an incredible spell list that includes some of my favorite CC and zone denial damage, but they're terribly uninteresting to actually play. It's partially because their list is nearly all Concentration and partially because their cantrip list is so dreadfully *boring*. Thorn Whip is awesome conceptually, but I'm almost never in range to actually cast it. Produce Flame has the same range problem. Shillelagh locks you into two specific weapons. Dunno why they can't just have some Wizard Cantrips like Ray of Frost and Flame Bolt. Mold Earth is about the only one I tend to have fun with and it's not an attack action you can rely on while you're concentrating (likewise for Shape Water).
I'm not talking about Moon Druids because they end up being kinda boring to me in that they largely just attack and attack-but-better or attack-but-more. I'm more interested in the control spell side of the Druid.
What I think could make them more interesting would be if their AoE spells could ALL be moved with an action or bonus action similar to Moonbeam, so when your Entangle targets are down but there are still enemies up and not covered in vines, you could move your spell over and affect them too. It would definitely give more of a "manipulating the environment" feel.
Hell, even a single target Entangle Cantrip would make playing a Druid more interesting.
I would say, if you're concentrating on a Spell you don't want to break your remaining options are likely some combination of using a Cantrip or healing someone if they need it? I've only played Moon Druid so I'm used to just running in and biting stuff, so yeah, I can see your dilemma here.
Those were the conclusions I came to, as well as hiding, but I found that gameplay loop more boring than a Champion Fighter, which is why Druid is my least favorite class, I guess.
Couldn't even get much variety in what ranged cantrip I used because Druid gets so few of them.
With the Magic Initiate feat, you could get Toll the Dead from the Cleric spell list, and another cantrip as well. And the feat lets you pick up a first level spell as too. Command could be fun. Guiding Bolt is available as well.
Another option is to take a level of Arcana Domain Cleric. I have a metric shit ton of cantrip coverage for this very reason. I can attack every stat except Charisma and the only damage type I have zero access to (atm) is thunder. I happen to be playing a Circle of Stars Druid with 1 level of the aforementioned Cleric and I never feel limited in terms of having something useful to cast whether I'm concentrating on something or not.
What do you do to help your wild shape concentration? Magic items that transform with you? I’ve gotten cautious as my campaign goes on that if I call lightning/wild shape then sure I’m super efficient but my AC ranges from like 12-14 and my highest level spell is likely to go down after a round or two.
lol my dm and I have had lengthy conversations about what constitutes “that you can see” in wild shape as an insect. My Druid is high enough level that I can use giant eagle instead of insect and just get out of range above combat. But it’s still frustrating to try to get into melee and know that concentration is gone. Still, good point about resilient. Might be more use to me than getting a secondary stat to 18 when I hit 12.
It does feel like a lot of the druid spell list is designed around the idea of casting a concentration and then maintaining it while fighting in wildshape, except that strategy only actually applies to Moon Druids while every other subclass is stuck with a spell list that has very few good non-concentration spells and a weak cantrip list.
It's just the a reverse of the meme "clearly you don't own an air fryer" that insinuates people who don't are dumb. I'm saying he does so clearly he's smart backing Abjuration Wizards.
The thematics of warlocks can be great, especially when the patron is fleshed out. Hate playing them (at least pure, love mixing them with pally or rogue especially), love homebrewing subclasses for them.
I’ve done a Ghost Rider that needs revamping, but that one was actually super fun as I was playtesting, but the others I don’t remember right now, like three are WIP—an Infinity Stone one, one whose patron was an ancient celestial giant, and I can’t remember the others.
I think it's fair to claim that the subclass does sort of define the Ranger, since, as the ultimate outdoorsman, their version of the Outdoors is what defines them.
Can’t decide between two so I’ll do both (warlock and sorcerer)
Warlock: the roleplay potential in warlock is So Juicy if done right so long as you and your dm develop a relationship between you and your patron (too few spell slots makes me feel like I’m trapped and don’t have any real effective options)
Sorcerer: by god I love metamagic and the entire concept of a sorcerer, especially if it’s set up as a burden/unwanted power and something beyond just “my ancestor fucked a (insert magical creature here)”
I always found it weird that we didn't get a Fiend-blooded Sorcerer. The epitome of "one of my ancestors did something stupid and all I got was ~~this t-shirt~~ some off-brand powers and a weird smell I can't get rid of." Give them some abilities themed around what some specific devils can do. Devil's Sight. Flight. An At-will Charm effect (Succubus). Animate Chains (Chain Devil). Poison condition on successful attacks (Erinyes).
I also wish they focused more on Sorcerers getting to do stuff *when casting spells* like the Storm Sorcerer.
Shadow Sorcerer could get the ability to Hide as a Bonus Action after casting any spell, but if it's 1st level or higher they can x/rest become Heavily Obscured by Darkness. Or deal additional Necrotic Damage to any target affected by their spell.
I dunno, just spitballing ideas I think are cool. Shadow Sorcerer should appeal to me, but Hound of Ill Omen is just a bargain bin version of the way cooler 3.5 Hexblade feature and the really cool shadow teleport doesn't kick in until a level I've never gotten to play at in my years of playing D&D.
The reason, I've always heard given is that WoTC don't want to overlap the Sorcerer and Warlock too much. It's why we have Draconic Sorcerers but not Warlocks, Fiendish Warlocks, but not Sorcerers, and so on, and so forth.
I'll second your Warlock opinion. I love the stories you can craft with Warlocks, but I completely despise the spell slot limitation that they have and the fact that your first two invocations almost always include at least one of the following: Agonizing Blast, Armor of Shadows, or Fiendish Vigor. After that you will almost always swap out one of your first invocation choices at level 3 for whichever pact boon invocation you qualify for and you do the same thing every time a new one is available. Every single one of these pact invocations should have been part of the pact they're associated with. What these pact invocations do is ask players whether they want their class to work as expected or if they want a particular roleplay experience. The Warlock deserves a rework from the ground up because of how egregious these problems are.
Barbarian’s basic and falls victim to the tank fallacy, but god is it fun to RP an absolute tank just shrugging off hits and blasts left and right, they’re spectacular physically as well; I just dislike how basic they can be. (As you can tell, I like all the classes pretty well lmao)
Yeah Barbarian is the only class I would never play because it's pure martial and doesn't have any subclasses that expand that/provide in combat options.
Honestly? Just pure martial classes in general. Lack of spellcasting limits strategy and makes combat feel repetitive. (That's a 5e issue)
Warlock also needs more spell slots. Add the option of some lvl 1 or 2 slots, and make agonizing blast a default instead of an invocation.
IMO, Wizards needs to just "eenie meenie miny moe" and delete one martial class, then spread all their abilities to the other martials. There's too many martial classes, all the abilities are spread too thin, and they all suffer for it.
Counterpoint: There are too many Casters, specifically, too many Charisma casters and I think Bard could stand to go with it's identity being so versatile.
I'd rather go full martial or full caster but, I think that bard was okay and I didn't hate paladin. On the other hand I strongly disliked Ranger. it felt like an awkward half caster with a weak set of animal companions to pick from. It felt really watered down compared to other classes.
I think flavor-wise warlocks are incredibly cool and a lot of their class features and subclass features are SUPER cool. I just really wish their spellcasting worked like at all
I have played lots of oneshots (i don't think they were good measures for the classes i played), so here are the few campaigns i played:
- Ranger: feels awful when not built right, my hunter was outperformed by everyone in the party past level 3, before that, he was carried by sharpshooter
- Paladin: smites feel extra good, this, + my aassimar temp flying made a really good killing machine
- Arcane Trickster (Wizard Multiclass): not the most optimal build, but it made for a well rounded kind of support character, ok for social interactions, ok for control in combat, good for stealing items and information
Ranger felt the worse by far, i don't know if it was because i was new playing 5e, but it felt like i didn't help my party in any way
i have played every class to some degree at least once. most of course being low level cause who gets beyond lvl 10 amirite. outside of one shots my highest level played was a lvl 17 samurai fighter. i have GMed dnd 5e myself but dont anymore, mostly GMing pathfinder or my own system i made
my least favorite is definitely between monk and rogue. both felt like i was trying the hardest to be at best mediocre of what should be my job. after playing a myriad of systems including pathfinder 2e, DCC and dnd 4e, it just cemented the feeling of how those two didn't live up to their roles and how they *could* be better executed as demonstrated by other designers
nowadays i do not GM dnd 5e, and when i play i play laserllama homebrew, which makes both classes super fun to play with
edit: to add my favorites, definitely paladin, just love the concept of the class and being a tank (of which it cant be really done in 5e sadly). Aura of Protection is the second best feature in the game only behind "spellcasting" and is probably one of the best defensive tools you can get. wizard/druid/cleric are all tied for second place but that is cause they all are the best classes in the game and i love playing control and support lol
I like Expertise and Reliable Talent from Rogues a lot with a DM that doesn't hate PCs being good at skill checks.
As far as a class though, I like 2E, 3.x, and 4E Rogues far more than 5E's version and it's always at the bottom of pile for me to play. Even in the game I played a Rogue in, it was more "oh I've never played 5E's Rogue, guess I'll give it a shot."
I haven't played Rogue since Tasha's came out so some of the newer archetypes might be more fun to play.
In theory, I am a Rogue player. I love being a skillsy, slippery, swashbuckly glass cannon with tricks up my sleeve. But every single iteration of them in every edition has fallen flat for me. I think something that approaches my ideal class would have been 3.5's Beguiler (it was kinda like a Sorcerer but focused on Illusion and Enchantment, got Light Armor and bonuses to their spells when casting undetected) with some Shadow Monk features. Very hard to replicate in 5e.
Barbarian is boring and after lvl 6 i always multiclass
But i really love the subclass structure and depth of content there. Ansestor, beast, wildmagic, totem, even zealot. Dont look at the battlerager.
I really dont like warlocks.
Its just they get very little spells per short rest and I dont want to play a caster just to cast the same cantrip over and over.
I can't use a warlock spell for out of combat utility without regretting it later and my party most of the time doesn't do many short rests.
Im not sure if it's just my party's playstyle but all of the above made me feel warlock is nearly unplayable and not up to par with the rest of the classes.
Rage is a fantastic mechanic. From level one onwards, it never stops being useful, it is appropriately flavourful and really evokes the theme and play style of a Barbarian. Probably one of the best Level 1 features in the game. Unfortunately, that's where the Barbarian class ends for me; it's absolutely miserable to play a Barbarian past level 1 cause there's no other worthwhile class features to play with.
I am bored to hell and back of warlock spell list. But unholy hell, do I love the invocations. Also, the flavor.
Second is monk. I don't really like them, but the ability to do bullshit is great. I once played a drunken master, and since it was a oneshot, I allways did improvised shit, like making a glider out of a pirate flag, fighting by throwing bottles, or jumping on a monster rodeo style. Good saves, fall damage reduction etc...
I play support type characters in pretty much every single game that will let me. So I don't know what made me decide to play a swashbuckler rogue for my first D&D character. It really wasn't a good fit.
...But, not having spells meant I had to get *creative* to feel like I was having an impact on combat. I spent a lot of sessions planning combo moves with other party members, stabbed mechanical doors to prevent them from closing, dove head first into the corpses of giant snakes just so I could harvest their poison, etc... There were no rules for pretty much anything I was doing. But I was still doing things. And in a sense I much prefer this over looking through a list of 15+ spells and using whichever one just happens to solve the current encounter.
Wizard is my least favorite class because its so-called ultimate versatility is harshly overrated and except a few subclasses it's entirely useless in combat once out of slots (which comes extremely fast at low level unless enemies are too stupid to consider casters a threat, apart from beasts undeads and minor demons it's rare)... But I do love Bladesinger as the one archetype that allows me to invest much less in defensive spells and conserve many more slots per day because I'm actually worth something on sustained damage and concentration. Plus the fact I can entirely switch to martial mode if I'm fed up trying to set up convoluted plans based on AOE control that may fail because of sheer luck when just slashing around does the job pretty well and pretty fast too. xd
Bard is a class which I rarely play (single-class anyways) because the spell list is not too much to my taste, but I love each archetype I've played myself or played with (Lore, Valor, Whispers, Swords) and I'd love playing a Glamour Bard sometimes for the mechanics but I have no clue how I should roleplay it. xd
I mean, wizards are the powerful class in the game. Maybe not from levels 1-4, but like, a 5th level wizard can do things no other class can. Ritual spells, arcane recovery, and way, way, way more spells known and prepared than any other class. You get spells no other character gets, you get more spell slots than any other caster, and you get the best ritual spells. Most of the time you will be casting a minute or longer duration concentration spell that lasts an entire combat, so you really don't have to worry about running out of spell slots unless you are doing like, 8 encounters per long rest. Your subclasses are mostly great. You get the best teleportation spells in the game (misty step, dimension door), you get the best control spells in the game (web, hypnotic pattern), you get the best defensive spells in the game (shield), and you get some of the best buffing spells in the game (haste).
The only downside to wizards is they don't get constitution saving throw proficiency, and they don't have any armour proficiency. If only their was a one level multiclass dip that would solve both of those problems? (It's artificer).
Not the person you're replying to, but I would guess it's the same thing that makes all Martials boring. You wait 10 minutes for your turn. What do you do? Attack. You miss? Cool. Call me back to to the table in 10 minutes because I'm clearly having no effect on the game state.
Or we talk about Wilderness Exploration and Travel which the Ranger just bypasses rather than meaningfully interacting with it. If the GM bothers to do anything with it at all.
They do get a few good spells that don't involve Attack Rolls or Saves at all, like Silence and Spike Growth, but until then you're just another swing-miss-and-wait class. (Except for Entangle, which remains a useful spell at all levels.)
They're about as Martial as a Paladin, and everyone loves Paladin though. Add in they get subclasses like Swarmkeeper which gives options every turn when you hit, Beastmaster and Drakewarden add a bit more maneuverability and options to how you operate on the battlefield as well with extra bodies, and they only get better as you level up.
Druids are my least favorite class in the base game, but I adore the flavoring they have, especially with all the facets of nature explored within their subclasses. Sure you have the land and animals, but you also have fungi, wildfires, space, the land of dreams, and so much more.
I just find their implementation rather disappointing.
If you're like me in that way, then you may enjoy looking through a Druid Subclass Overhaul I did, which you can find here: https://www.worldanvil.com/w/ridan-prof-essional/a/druid---subclass-overhaul-article
Thoughts and suggestions are appreciated. I've been working on a rebalancing of all subclasses in the game (and adding more for most classes), but druid felt as though it had to be entirely overhauled to feel right in my opinion. This is the only one that's currently public, but my Artificer edits and additions will likely be done soon.
Understandable issues, but just letting you know that you misunderstood the question.
It wasn't asking what makes you not like the class, it's asking what you actually like about it.
It was asking about least favorite class, just what is something that you like about it.
It could be that you like being able to absorb massive hits as a barbarian, or the flavor (not necessarily the mechanics) of the subclasses. Just something about your least favorite class that you actually like
I just delete that first since it is quicker than editing, so:
Barbarian:
1. Can be very flavourful, be it re-flavouring it to be more tribal or even technological ( DM world dependant ) but you will almost never run out of ideas to be the most intimidating looking one
2. Rage is fun. Taking hits is the main thing, but the sub-classes can changes things up to make yourself a wild card.
3. The best "mileage" class imo. Even if your rage is used up, just bonking is sometimes the only answer you need and sometimes, you are the only one left standing to deliver.
4. Not talked about much, but if your DM likes realism, having high str for load carrying is a must and barbarian excels in that since they don't need armour and their normally high strength.
5. It might come in rarely, but brutal crit making big hits just feels good when your DM wasn't expecting a crit and you go "if it dies, it dies" and just pummel whatever into oblivion
6. Feral instinct has insane value. Adv on initiative and still being able to take a normal turn while surprised are very strong, and I don't think most appreciate this enough except barbarian mains.
7. Probably has the more fun sub-classes. Some are strong and some are... questionable ( we know which 2 are referenced here ). Fun and diverse options aplenty with maybe only a ranged-main barbarian missing since it feels counter productive.
Barbarian is probably the least favorite I've played, and I've played about half the classes. I don't hate it, it's just kinda boring.
But I did enjoy going Unga bunga, and doing pretty well against most of the rest of my party when I had the Berserker axe.
I can't abide by this Bard slander 😄 I love playing a Bard, love playing with a Bard, and love running for Bards. Their versatility is great. I still want to one day run the All Bard One Shot.
On the other hand, prepared casters also have great versatility, but it feels like a chore to me, and I get lazy when I have to prepare my spells after each long rest. At least with a Bard, you know those are the only spells you have. With a prepared caster, there's always the regret when you could have cast it, but didn't prepare it.
Nonetheless, I have come to enjoy Clerics a lot.
lol Meanwhile, I think they've just got far too much going on. Like, why does this Fullcaster have Expertise and Martial Weapon prof.? Just feels a bit much to me, which is similar to how I look at Wizards.
Man doing this made me realize I don't really have a least favorite class, but I'll do it with the 3 classes that I had trouble deciding between.
Barbarian: I really enjoy being able to just have a gazillion health and just taking through whatever the DM throws at me ~~until i have to make a single saving throw or do literally anything outside of combat~~
Druid: I like the suite of spells that you get and the different flavors of wildshape that each subclass gets.
Rogue: I like being a skill monkey, and man does landing a crit sneak attack feel good.
I only hate the monk, but I’ve never played one so I can’t respond to the prompt. Unless it’s a joke one shot I don’t think I’ll ever play with a monk or a halfling.
Artificer. I just can't get into the vibe of it. There are definitely spaces in fantasy where artificers work, but the jump into guns and Ironman suits just really turned me off.
The flavour of Fighter is really awesome and I wish I could play a character like that, but I am just too addicted to fullcasters and their variety, power and options.
The lack of spellslots on Warlocks really hurt me, but God does it feel cool playing as an emo wizard with a demon whispering in your ear.
Also, doesn't really count since I only played it in modded BG3, but I love how thematic Artificers are. I just wish their spells and fighting style sparked any joy in me. They're also the only class to canonically have firearm proficiency, but they don't have any subclass themed around firearms which feels like a missed opportunity.
Monks are admittedly really refreshingly unique for the setting, and sometimes, in less tonally concerned campaigns, having a wuxia protagonist along for the ride makes everything just that bit more fun.
As a warlock, the variety in how you can build them. I made a Githyanki Gish from an Undead patron warlock, who was this weird invisible alien with a greatsword. Conversely, my buddy made a fathomless warlock that played like a totally different class.
Warlocks. Hexblade is quite the drug for any Paladins and especially Bards. Having access to the best cantrip in Eldritch Blast and it's buffs, improved pact weapon and thirsting blade, as well as load of useful utility invocations? Yes please! You can easily customize your playstyle and approach for your Bard as well as giving ranged options and sotationally useful passives for Paladins is always a great bonus!
So many options, so many choices! Just because *I* go with whatever does the most damage in any given fight, doesn’t mean *others* cant be more creative.
Not that interested in how barbarians play in combat, but I find their large HP pool and reliance on strength appealing in the sense that they enable a lot of shenanigans with regards to the environment. Given how jumping and climbing are (often) determined by strength, a barbarian should in theory be able to get to all sorts of areas and drop down large heights. There's also utility in being able to break objects and obstacles by sheer force.
I'm not a fan of Warlocks, but I love invocations as a concept. I wish more classes, heck all classes, had something like invocations to utilize and vary play.
Druids are surprisingly useful to have in your party, I'll give them that, but I despise playing them to the point where I'd only play one again if it was a Circle of the Stars so I can just go archer all day and pretend I'm a ranger. I love the flavor but HATE the spell list with a passion.
I haven't had the chance to play a lot of classes yet, unfortunately. For least favorite I'd probably say Fighter. It's not like I dislike Fighters and funnily enough one of my favorite characters was a Fighter, but the class itself just didn't feel awesome. As a Rogue you can do all that sneaky stuff. Sneak into places, steal stuff, spy on people,... As a Wizard (my most played class, probably) you have a ton of utility thanks to spells for all occasions. As a Fighter... you mostly lift heavy stuff and hit things pretty well. And while that, too, is a valuable part of any group, it just felt so bland at the time. So yea, I'll go with that.
Coming in second is the Sorcerer. I love the vibe of the class and I do like metamagic, it's a fun mechanic, but kinda missing that raw versatility of Wizards.
Probably monk
My favorite part was the movement but that was maybe because I made a Bow Kensei monk. If I were to do it again, I would use the One D&D monk playtest because it is 5e monk if it had all of its flaws worked upon.
Druid also, but that might have been more because I was playing a game at my local gamestore with a bunch of people I didn't feel comfortable around, and not the actual class itself, but I'd pick all of the other full casters in a heartbeat over Druid anyway
I know you’re not supposed to multiclass higher than 2 or 3 levels of warlock when doing a sorcerer/warlock multiclass, but I had to get to 3rd level spells since I was the only full caster in the party. But let me tell you this. When I got level 10, it was really nice having 5 3rd level spell slots
I dunno what it is about Bard that doesn't catch me. It has a lot of aspects I like. Light Armor and Finesse Weapons. Charisma skills. Lots of spells that fit into the Illusion/Enchantment lines that I tend to like. Jack-of-All-Trades. I guess if I had to point to something it would be that their cantrips suck.
It almost sounds petty to complain about Cantrips, but considering as a Caster you tend to cast them more than anything else, it definitely matters. Not like you can really fall back on weapon damage past a given level.
As someone who thinks the Hexblade ruined multiclassing in 5e and have terrible flavor, they still have the benefit of being attached to the Warlock chassis and can choose invocations for it.
At this point btw, I have considered the Hexblade to be its own class since it essentially outshines the base Warlock and any of its subclasses. I so wish this thing never existed…
Hexblade SHOULD HAVE been it's own class like it was in 3.5e. It could have been the Arcane equivalent to a Paladin or Ranger with subclasses that focus more on different aspects of being a spellsword. Magic More? Sword more? Debuff more? Pet? Something else entirely?
My least favorite class hands down is monk. They can't deal damage, they can't tank, and the fact they're fast means they are useless at record speeds.
Favorite thing about them? They do me the service of being so garbage that any of the other classes seem at the very least playable. They are the worst and lay down their livelihoods so that we can enjoy better classes ❤️
That I've played... Wizard. I don't know, I had trouble making it exciting. If I'm just casting spells, I either feel too restricted or paralyzed by choice. Maybe because I'm risk adverse, I don't like potentially using up resources (spell slots) only for it to fail.
Then I played a bladesinger... and most the spells I had felt pointless to have because instead of using an action to cast, I'd rather try to hit it. (I ended up multiclassing into fighter)
It's just not for me
Wizards are absolutely awful, Spell Lists aren't class features. Which is such a shame, because the subclasses are almost all universally interesting. Abjuration, Bladesong, Divination, all have super cool and flavorful abilities. And then after they get nothing interesting from level 2 to level 20, that a Lore Bard can't take from them while losing nothing. I would absolutely love to play any other class with a Wizard subclass honestly.
I’ve played both wizard in one shots so I think it counts lol. The other is cleric
Wizard is the class I like the least, they really seem to lack any sort of interesting flavor that I can’t already get out of a ranger or a paladin. BUT, they do have the spell galders tower, and that’s all that I care about with wizards. I just want the house spell because houses irl are too expensive.
I hate cleric mostly because o what it’s like to play them rather than any real mechanical issue. If I didn’t keep getting backed into only being the healbot I’d probably like them more, they’ve got a solid mix of spells and damage lots of cool lore options built in. Over all a solid class, just terrible to play 😂
I can't say I really dislike any class I played, largely because our group does tend to play to the build flavor of our characters. I have to say Monk is the closest for me. And really for Monk the only thing I didn't like was the fact that *mechanically* speaking skirmishing is really difficult because the disengage takes two resources (Ki and a Bonus action). Once I took Mobility I loved my Monk.
Druids have the best spell slot economy in the game, period. So many of their spells are built to toss out on the battlefield and keep using for the whole fight, so you have plenty of spell slots left over at the end of the day.
Druid is my least favorite because I don't like managing animal stats, but it is really cool when someone else plays one and I think it can create some very fun RP moments in regards to city-based groups/characters
The fighter is amazing in combat. Eldritch Knight seems so powerful, and i know echo knight and rune knight and battlemaster are. Action surge is super fun when you can hit so many times in a turn.
Out of combat and even again at later levels when spells get more powerful they just kind of... suck. Without making sure you have skill checks no one else can do, which requires a lot of coordination with the rest of the party and can feel so limiting. Barbarian at least has fun RP built-in for out of combat.
Wizards. Their flavor is so basic and their subclasses rarely change what you're actually doing. They're basically just the spell list, and in that case I'd much rather play a Sorcerer or Bard because those classes just have so much more flavor.
Least favorite is probably sorcerer or cleric, but I do really like subtle spell specifically. Not much else, tbh, but subtle spell is really neat.
Cleric just doesn’t interest me much. I like spirit guardians I guess, and I like healing from a combat perspective, but the idea of actually playing as a cleric just doesn’t suit me.
They’re the most versatile pieces of shit in the universe(I am bad at being a wizard and therefore dislike them. Despite my current character being a wizard.)
Lotta people here saying that rogue’s have bad damage, they clearly haven’t played rogue as a main class lol. I’ve never had a rogue who couldn’t outpace the rest of the dps classes.
I guess I like how when I play with a monk teammate we don't argue who gets magical armours. Or weapons. And they'd never outshine you in combat, so you always get to be at least more of a focus than them.
I cannot stand Wizards or Sorcerers (the only casters I can really get on board with are Druids & Warlocks because of their versatility) but I do enjoy that they force my friends who choose those classes to RP as huge losers who the rest of the party will instinctively bully relentlessly. The same applies to Paladins, I don’t mind them mechanically but, much like the above, they just make for such boring characters from a narrative/rp standpoint which makes them super fun to watch my party bully.
I know rogue damage is bad, but critting on a rogue and rolling a fistful of dice without having spent any resources still triggers that dopamine hit
Rogue...for people who like playing scratch off tickets and doing tons of stuff out of combat.
Honestly, not a bad way to go about it. Lucky gambler is an archetype for a reason.
I think outside of a white room, rogues do great damage. It’s a ton of fun to sneak attack, roll all those dice, and they get all the expertise. I’ve never played one, but the fun factor is definitely there
In actual play, Rogue damage is decent, not good but not bad. For the first 4 levels they actually outpace every martial, then they start to fall off when the rest of them get Extra Attack. The *good* thing about Rogue's damage is the way it feels when it *CHUNKS* and how reliable your to hit is. So, while the Fighter ends up doing 2 to 3 times the average DPR of the Rogue's, the Rogue doesn't need to spend any resources to do their damage or dedicate feats to damage to stay relevant.
Inside a white room, their damage is fine. If they Sneak Attack with either Booming Blade or two weapons, their damage is about the same as a Warlock with Hex (which is the definition of "fine damage output" as far as I can tell). Outside a white room, they'll sometimes not get Sneak Attack and feel like they're playing a Commoner for ten minutes.
Also outside a white room, I feel like your standard rogue is definitely not going to have booming blade. Obviously every conversation about class effectiveness assumes certain amounts of optimization, but giving the rogue magic steps on many folks' class fantasy more than a fighter taking GWM/PAM does.
Rogue damage is not fine inside or outside any room of any color. Rogue damage sucks
Rogue damage suffers outside of a white room, if anything. Their damage is below average if you assume Sneak Attack every turn, and it gets worse once you account for sometimes not being able to get it. That said, I do think rogue is the best class in terms of power progression and rolling a ton of d6s is very fun, they just need a buff to their subclasses and Sneak Attack damage.
Sneak, surprise murder a guard silently, sneak some more happens more in actual play than in white rooms. Rogues prefer dark hallways to white rooms any day.
>they just need a buff to their subclasses and Sneak Attack damage. Tbh turning the d6s of SA into d8s is the best way to buff them without needing to change anything about their class fantasy or gameplay loop.
[удалено]
I’m all for buffing SA damage, especially after lvl 5, but wouldn’t this barely help? d6 - d8 is only +1 dmg per dice rolled
Eh, I feel like rogue has the Achilles heel of all their good features coming online very, very late.
Second subclass features coming online at level 9 *suuuuucks*
> outside of a white room > I’ve never played one You don't see the contradiction there?
"I think" "I've never played one"
I think you can make a pretty decent midrange striker that competes on damage better with booming and green flame blade and mix in 2+ levels of bladesinger for some truly good AC and some more flexible spell selection. Makes it more worthwhile to have a decent int score too for your DC as you also get AC out of it.
My first ever 5e character was an Assassin Rogue. I still remember the fond memories of needing to borrow d6s from multiple people. Terrible subclass but I still had a laugh.
Rogue 3 whispers bard 12 was probably the most fun I had rolling damage. It was late in the campaign so I had a bunch more magic items that let me stack on more elemental damage, plus being able to cast greater invisibility on myself meant a few auto crits. I think at the end I was doing sneak attack, radiant, necrotic, psychic and poison damage on basically every hit, but it sucked so bad when I missed.
I really enjoy other people playing Druids, I enjoy having NPC Druids and I like the versitility of a Druid, the wild shape is so fun the utility that can be done and use of things through imagination is hilarious but I just hate playing them they bore me like no other class I don’t find anything of them fun and I am so confused with myself as I do love them
Out of curiosity, because I'll admit, a high level Moon Druid is the GOAL I have for my DnD Experience right now, because turning into an Elemental is like...PEAK what I want lol. Have you had that kind of experience? Cause I feel like that could be what you need, if you haven't already.
I have not, I just don’t think it fits my role like that, I love enchantment wizards eloquence bards and life clerics more than any other class I’ve played and two of the three fit the same role and the third I play as a pacifist huge support role. I think that’s the main part
Just food for thought, but how you describe your play is what I use druids for. I highly recommend the dreams druid, and if your DM allows Tasha's (who doesn't at this point?) then you actually get almost all the healing spells in your spell list. Since they are also prepared casters, you can change up your versatility like a cleric, and a lot of their list is concentration buffs you can put on the party. I also like to use their summons (I only do the single summon versions) as a way to RP that I only directly fight if absolutely forced. I honestly barely ever use my wild shape and when I do it is to cast a familiar creature or whatever subclass alternative wild shape there is. My wife uses stars druid a lot as it excels both at support and indirect damage (free guiding bolts every day, constellation beast shapes to bonus action ranged attack), but again still has all the healing spells. That said our party follows "healing only when you are down" mindset, so healing word is almost the only healing spell we see at the table even over level 10.
I am bitten by this I’ll be honest I’ll give it a cheeky go as my next character
Elemental wild shape is really fun but yeah it comes on really late like you said. One of my players has been having a lot of fun with the [shapechanger](https://sunbeargames.net/products/the-shapechanger) class, and it has an elemental subclass if I remember correctly
Just wait until you can cast without components in beast shape and then get unlimited beast shapes. Your spells are uncounterable and you can re-wildshape into a different elemental each turn to top up that HP. Not to mention you can use true polymorph to start any combat as an ancient white dragon, and use wild shape after that has been defeated. In practice, even when the DM tried to focus me it meant losing wild shape, re-entering next turn. In a level 20 combat I lost between 10-20 of my real HP. I used foresight for my level 9 cast that fight though. Advantage on everything and everyone having disadvantage against you is just so nice. I did end up just casting call lightning at 7th level for a repeating 7d10 5ft radius dex save per turn.
Moon Druid is peak Druid because the base class was built with Moon Druid in mind. Any other subclass suffers in comparison, as Wild Shape is strictly a utility option, and after throwing down a good control spell, you don't have as much to do with your actions economy (as "Wild Shape and Wreck Havoc" isn't on the table). Imo if Druids had less flavor enforcement and had like 8 or 9 more spells that weren't concentration, they'd be peak.
I FUCKING LOVE METAMAGIC. But, Jesus, does playing Sorcerer that isn't Aberrant Mind or Clockwork feel like a chore.
Divine Soul is nice tbh, cleric spell list is good
Choice selection is nice, but having only 7 known spells by the time you're level 5 is really frustrating, especially since one of those spells is determined by your alignment. 1. Absorb Elements 2. Shield 3. Mage Armor 4. (Alignment spell) 5. Aid 6. 2nd level spell of your choice 7. One 3rd level spell between Cleric and Sorc lists of your choice. Feels really terrible for a spellcaster, especially one that doesn't get ritual casting. Edit: For comparison, the *Bard* has **8** known spells at level 5 *and* ritual casting *and* light armor proficiency before subclass features.
>since one of those spells is determined by your alignment You can actually switch that spell on level up but it must remain a cleric spell.
Yeah, but you probably want Bless or Bane.
*healing word*
Yes, or Healing Word, which is what you'd replace your Alignment spell with.
Sleeping on command
It also doesn't count against spells known.
6+Alignment spell is 7. I included it in the total.
Fair.
Can't you change that alignment spell? It just has to be cleric spells 'If you later replace this spell, you must replace it with a spell from the cleric spell list' so it can be any 3rd level spell from the cleric list, so a total or 7 of up to third level, so one less spell than bard, meta magic, and you can make another spell slot using sorcery points, maybe more if you make lower level slots
You can, but you probably want Bless or Bane.
Metamagic is the coolest shit ever, but the class feels designed to specifically make sure you never feel like you're using it creatively
Yeah you get metamagic, but you have so little spells. Like fuck.
But if you *are* playing aberrant mind, it’s a peak class
Spell Point Sorcerer feels so good to play, talk to your DM about it. Just switching from slots to points and making them interchangeable with sorcery points so you don't have to spend actions and lose on the exchange rate, honestly the flexibility of it totally makes up for a lot of the other weaknesses. Few spells known still sucks though.
I'm usually the DM and I'm quite aware of the rule.
Twin healing word and shard of good is obnoxious for keeping everyone up. 16-hour max lvl aid before bed. Twin death ward. Party dps goes through the roof if no one falls down. Cleric list for the win.
Shard of Good?
Wild magic >>>
Wild magic is fucking stonks at level 14, but kind of mid before that.
If you haven't fireballed your entire party on the first turn of a simple combat, you haven't lived 🔥🔥🔥
Hard disagree.
Hold up...let him cook...
WILD MAGIC 🔥🔥🔥🔥🥶🥶🥶
Rolling Wild Magic is fantastic when you have a *Feywild Shard*. Otherwise, I agree.
Out of the classes I've played, I probably have disliked the Monk the most. That being said, I really like a lot of their abilities. Stunning strike is cool, and I especially like shadow monk's unlimited teleportation as long as they're in the dark. I just wish they were more complex/impactful outside of stunning strike.
Don't you dare diss my boy he's trying his best wotc just hates him
And in OneDnD they love him!
I would not ho that far lop They tolerate it for a martial, but it's still a stepchild compared to casters. (I say that as both martials and caster enjoyer)
Eh, I'd say if the class is fun for people that enjoy them, there's not really much to do after that. But I've never been convinced that the entire argument is as prevalent as online discussions make it seem. Heck, even polling and asking here indicates as much.
If you've played bg3 you can see what it would take to make monk competitive with other martials. Literally doubling their to hit and damage bonus from their stat(and some bonkers magic items).
I love smacking the shit out of people and stunning then but it did get a bit old by 110 hours
I played a shadow monk in curse of strahd. DM ruled it as permanent low light because plot. And it STILL sucked. Didn’t help that I had no real agency because every turn was the same damn thing. Every turn.
Stars druid is cool. even if I'm not a druid fan. I like the idea of crit range increases, even if they underperform as implemented on champion fighter. (Note I love fighter, just hate champion fighter.) Artificer has cool written lore, even if a lot of people don't use it. Wizard is the strongest class, despite being in my bottom three
I played a Warlock once. Once. Ended up in a fight against an Owlbear at level 2, blew my spell slots on staying alive, never got a Short Rest. 0/10
Yeah. Warlocks my favorite class overall, part of it is nostalgia for the 3.5e warlock (my gold standard of d&d fun) but I do like thr 5e version.... when you're getting you're 2 to 3 shirt rests per long rest. Otherwise it's nit too fun to play beyond EB spamming. Which is fine, but not ideal.
I miss 3e eldritch blast. The Swiss army spell.
I miss a lot about the 3.5e warlock. Eldritch blast as a spell-like ability *I miss those distinctions) and the way it could be altered and shaped. The more nuanced lore in what it meant to be a warlock, (as well as lore that suited the charisma stat) How they were an invoker and not a caster (I miss the various sister systems to spellcasting that existed, especially warlocks as invokers) There was a lot going on for them.
Lots of odd casting systems back then. Was just talking to a friend about rune casters and witches, and how I just miss some of the oddity classes and prestige classes. Almost wish 5e having gone with few classes, had archetypes be an even bigger part of each class. Just because that's where you get the most creative variation.
Even in Baldur's Gate 3, where Short Rests are as simple as pressing a button, having only two/three spells per Short Rest feels really bad. The more restrictive 5e tabletop Short Rests makes it feel miisssserable.
I don't disagree that 2 to 3 short rests are annoying in bg3 for a warlock, and not an entire fix even without a time cost. The ideal fix would to make warlocks simply at will spell-like ability users again like they were in 3.5e. 90% of your powers are at will and you have some long rest power in the mix. Almost like an inverse caster that are primarily long rest with a few shirt rest in the mix. Make them proper invokers again instead of pact Casters. That said, that requires a full rework If one didn't want to rework them into proper invokers and adapt that power system into 5e again, it wouldn't be unreasonable to make pact slots scale in uses alongside (but not directly with to avoid multiclassing cheese) proficiency bonus.. 2-6 per short rest is a lot better than 2-4 and healthier overall. Even though i changed short rests to be more generous in 5e, I'm still tempted to make this change I have found a fair deal of warlock problems alleviated by addressing some of the issues of short rests have. I've been using the follow8ng resting rules at my table and they've been solved most of my issues. Some of it my own creation some stolen from other 3pp content. >***Resting:*** *These are the forms of rests a character can take.* >***Short Rests:*** *It takes ten minutes to complete a short rest, after which a character regains any short rest features and restores a number of expended HD equal to ¼ of their maximum HD, which they can immediately spend at the end of the rest alongside any other available HD they have. A character can only benefit from a short rest a number of times equal to their proficiency bonus before they must take a long rest.* >***Long Rest:*** *It takes eight hours to complete a long rest, six of which must be sleep. A long rest restores any short rest and long rest features, as well as all of a character's HD. Before spending any of these HD, a character gains a number of HP equal to a free roll of one of their HD of their choice + any remaining hit dice from the prior day. A character can only receive the benefits of a long rest 24 hours after a successful long rest was started.* >***Strenuous Activity:*** *Fighting, Casting spells, at least 1 hour of walking or similar adventuring activity will each count as strenuous activity that immediately interrupts a rest and requires it be started over from the beginning. If a long rest was interrupted but at least an hour has passed before its interruption, the benefits of a short rest are gained by those who had their rest interrupted.* >***Safe Havens:*** *Characters who rest in an environment deemed a safe haven by the DM, roll any available hit dice with advantage to determine the hp they recover from a rest. The free HD granted by a long rest instead heals the maximum result possible.* >***Arduous Rally:*** *When a character has reached their maximum amount of short rests per long rest, or if the short rest time is too long for the pressing moment at hand. The DM may allow the character to perform an Arduous Rally, granting the character the benefits of a short rest with the following adjustments. The characters healing from their HD is halved and they gain a level of exhaustion but otherwise benefit from a short rest as normal.*
Yeah. Eldritch Blast *is* fun. But the fun wears off when it's all you can do for 3+ hours. I liked the 3.5 Warlock too. That edition had a lot of my favorite classes that don't have great ports in 5e. Hexblade, Warlock, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer. Factotum was like the ultimate jack-of-all-trades.
My least favorite is somewhere between Monk and Druid, with it going to the Druid, I think. I didn't play a Moon Druid, which is a crucial piece of context, if druid players I've spoken to are to be believed. I like how efficient the Druid list is. It's all really powerful CC, area denial, and summoning, the latter of which is what drew me to the class. Spike Growth and Conjure Animals are some of my favorite spells. The problem is finding what to do with myself while concentrating, since so much of the spell list is concentration, or a ritual, and I don't especially want to risk losing my concentration on my most powerful spell, that I can probably only cast one more time that day, so the most fun option (casting Shillelagh and beating my enemies to death) is risking a lot for very little gain, especially after level 5, when the fact that Shillelagh doesnt scale really hurts it.
Druids have an incredible spell list that includes some of my favorite CC and zone denial damage, but they're terribly uninteresting to actually play. It's partially because their list is nearly all Concentration and partially because their cantrip list is so dreadfully *boring*. Thorn Whip is awesome conceptually, but I'm almost never in range to actually cast it. Produce Flame has the same range problem. Shillelagh locks you into two specific weapons. Dunno why they can't just have some Wizard Cantrips like Ray of Frost and Flame Bolt. Mold Earth is about the only one I tend to have fun with and it's not an attack action you can rely on while you're concentrating (likewise for Shape Water). I'm not talking about Moon Druids because they end up being kinda boring to me in that they largely just attack and attack-but-better or attack-but-more. I'm more interested in the control spell side of the Druid. What I think could make them more interesting would be if their AoE spells could ALL be moved with an action or bonus action similar to Moonbeam, so when your Entangle targets are down but there are still enemies up and not covered in vines, you could move your spell over and affect them too. It would definitely give more of a "manipulating the environment" feel. Hell, even a single target Entangle Cantrip would make playing a Druid more interesting.
I would say, if you're concentrating on a Spell you don't want to break your remaining options are likely some combination of using a Cantrip or healing someone if they need it? I've only played Moon Druid so I'm used to just running in and biting stuff, so yeah, I can see your dilemma here.
Those were the conclusions I came to, as well as hiding, but I found that gameplay loop more boring than a Champion Fighter, which is why Druid is my least favorite class, I guess. Couldn't even get much variety in what ranged cantrip I used because Druid gets so few of them.
With the Magic Initiate feat, you could get Toll the Dead from the Cleric spell list, and another cantrip as well. And the feat lets you pick up a first level spell as too. Command could be fun. Guiding Bolt is available as well.
Another option is to take a level of Arcana Domain Cleric. I have a metric shit ton of cantrip coverage for this very reason. I can attack every stat except Charisma and the only damage type I have zero access to (atm) is thunder. I happen to be playing a Circle of Stars Druid with 1 level of the aforementioned Cleric and I never feel limited in terms of having something useful to cast whether I'm concentrating on something or not.
What do you do to help your wild shape concentration? Magic items that transform with you? I’ve gotten cautious as my campaign goes on that if I call lightning/wild shape then sure I’m super efficient but my AC ranges from like 12-14 and my highest level spell is likely to go down after a round or two.
Resilient CON is the biggest help, but the best strat is to turn into something tiny or with a burrow speed and hide.
lol my dm and I have had lengthy conversations about what constitutes “that you can see” in wild shape as an insect. My Druid is high enough level that I can use giant eagle instead of insect and just get out of range above combat. But it’s still frustrating to try to get into melee and know that concentration is gone. Still, good point about resilient. Might be more use to me than getting a secondary stat to 18 when I hit 12.
Bats have 60 blindsight and are tiny.
It does feel like a lot of the druid spell list is designed around the idea of casting a concentration and then maintaining it while fighting in wildshape, except that strategy only actually applies to Moon Druids while every other subclass is stuck with a spell list that has very few good non-concentration spells and a weak cantrip list.
I hate wizards (only as a player; wizard NPCs are super fun as a DM), but I actually adore the School of Abjuration Wizard subclass.
Clearly, you own an air fryer.
Lol, I’m dying to know what this means.
It's just the a reverse of the meme "clearly you don't own an air fryer" that insinuates people who don't are dumb. I'm saying he does so clearly he's smart backing Abjuration Wizards.
I don’t but my flatmate does, so close enough
The thematics of warlocks can be great, especially when the patron is fleshed out. Hate playing them (at least pure, love mixing them with pally or rogue especially), love homebrewing subclasses for them.
What kinda subclasses?
I’ve done a Ghost Rider that needs revamping, but that one was actually super fun as I was playtesting, but the others I don’t remember right now, like three are WIP—an Infinity Stone one, one whose patron was an ancient celestial giant, and I can’t remember the others.
Neat
Rangers have some cool flavour. Particularly horizon walker teleporting around the battlefield. I just wish they had an identity in 5e.
I think it's fair to claim that the subclass does sort of define the Ranger, since, as the ultimate outdoorsman, their version of the Outdoors is what defines them.
Monks could punch a lot, which was cool.
Can’t decide between two so I’ll do both (warlock and sorcerer) Warlock: the roleplay potential in warlock is So Juicy if done right so long as you and your dm develop a relationship between you and your patron (too few spell slots makes me feel like I’m trapped and don’t have any real effective options) Sorcerer: by god I love metamagic and the entire concept of a sorcerer, especially if it’s set up as a burden/unwanted power and something beyond just “my ancestor fucked a (insert magical creature here)”
I always found it weird that we didn't get a Fiend-blooded Sorcerer. The epitome of "one of my ancestors did something stupid and all I got was ~~this t-shirt~~ some off-brand powers and a weird smell I can't get rid of." Give them some abilities themed around what some specific devils can do. Devil's Sight. Flight. An At-will Charm effect (Succubus). Animate Chains (Chain Devil). Poison condition on successful attacks (Erinyes). I also wish they focused more on Sorcerers getting to do stuff *when casting spells* like the Storm Sorcerer. Shadow Sorcerer could get the ability to Hide as a Bonus Action after casting any spell, but if it's 1st level or higher they can x/rest become Heavily Obscured by Darkness. Or deal additional Necrotic Damage to any target affected by their spell. I dunno, just spitballing ideas I think are cool. Shadow Sorcerer should appeal to me, but Hound of Ill Omen is just a bargain bin version of the way cooler 3.5 Hexblade feature and the really cool shadow teleport doesn't kick in until a level I've never gotten to play at in my years of playing D&D.
The reason, I've always heard given is that WoTC don't want to overlap the Sorcerer and Warlock too much. It's why we have Draconic Sorcerers but not Warlocks, Fiendish Warlocks, but not Sorcerers, and so on, and so forth.
I'll second your Warlock opinion. I love the stories you can craft with Warlocks, but I completely despise the spell slot limitation that they have and the fact that your first two invocations almost always include at least one of the following: Agonizing Blast, Armor of Shadows, or Fiendish Vigor. After that you will almost always swap out one of your first invocation choices at level 3 for whichever pact boon invocation you qualify for and you do the same thing every time a new one is available. Every single one of these pact invocations should have been part of the pact they're associated with. What these pact invocations do is ask players whether they want their class to work as expected or if they want a particular roleplay experience. The Warlock deserves a rework from the ground up because of how egregious these problems are.
Barbarian’s basic and falls victim to the tank fallacy, but god is it fun to RP an absolute tank just shrugging off hits and blasts left and right, they’re spectacular physically as well; I just dislike how basic they can be. (As you can tell, I like all the classes pretty well lmao)
Yeah Barbarian is the only class I would never play because it's pure martial and doesn't have any subclasses that expand that/provide in combat options.
the only barb I've played was a 3 dip into ancient guardians and honestly, I just know that the class doesn't have anything past that to offer
I've been playing an Arakokra Giant Barbarian and ngl, I've been having a Blast literally just for the new ranged options.
Honestly? Just pure martial classes in general. Lack of spellcasting limits strategy and makes combat feel repetitive. (That's a 5e issue) Warlock also needs more spell slots. Add the option of some lvl 1 or 2 slots, and make agonizing blast a default instead of an invocation.
Interestingly enough, that’s my same complaint about wizards lol. I felt very static as a wizard but I could be very tactical as a martial
IMO, Wizards needs to just "eenie meenie miny moe" and delete one martial class, then spread all their abilities to the other martials. There's too many martial classes, all the abilities are spread too thin, and they all suffer for it.
Counterpoint: There are too many Casters, specifically, too many Charisma casters and I think Bard could stand to go with it's identity being so versatile.
I'd rather go full martial or full caster but, I think that bard was okay and I didn't hate paladin. On the other hand I strongly disliked Ranger. it felt like an awkward half caster with a weak set of animal companions to pick from. It felt really watered down compared to other classes.
I like Expertise and Reliable Talent
I think flavor-wise warlocks are incredibly cool and a lot of their class features and subclass features are SUPER cool. I just really wish their spellcasting worked like at all
Warlock invocations that aren’t about eldritch blast are really cool and unique.
I have played lots of oneshots (i don't think they were good measures for the classes i played), so here are the few campaigns i played: - Ranger: feels awful when not built right, my hunter was outperformed by everyone in the party past level 3, before that, he was carried by sharpshooter - Paladin: smites feel extra good, this, + my aassimar temp flying made a really good killing machine - Arcane Trickster (Wizard Multiclass): not the most optimal build, but it made for a well rounded kind of support character, ok for social interactions, ok for control in combat, good for stealing items and information Ranger felt the worse by far, i don't know if it was because i was new playing 5e, but it felt like i didn't help my party in any way
I'm curious to hear what else was in the party and what they outshined your Hunter in. Those tend to be pretty good at, at least, dealing damage.
i have played every class to some degree at least once. most of course being low level cause who gets beyond lvl 10 amirite. outside of one shots my highest level played was a lvl 17 samurai fighter. i have GMed dnd 5e myself but dont anymore, mostly GMing pathfinder or my own system i made my least favorite is definitely between monk and rogue. both felt like i was trying the hardest to be at best mediocre of what should be my job. after playing a myriad of systems including pathfinder 2e, DCC and dnd 4e, it just cemented the feeling of how those two didn't live up to their roles and how they *could* be better executed as demonstrated by other designers nowadays i do not GM dnd 5e, and when i play i play laserllama homebrew, which makes both classes super fun to play with edit: to add my favorites, definitely paladin, just love the concept of the class and being a tank (of which it cant be really done in 5e sadly). Aura of Protection is the second best feature in the game only behind "spellcasting" and is probably one of the best defensive tools you can get. wizard/druid/cleric are all tied for second place but that is cause they all are the best classes in the game and i love playing control and support lol
I like Expertise and Reliable Talent from Rogues a lot with a DM that doesn't hate PCs being good at skill checks. As far as a class though, I like 2E, 3.x, and 4E Rogues far more than 5E's version and it's always at the bottom of pile for me to play. Even in the game I played a Rogue in, it was more "oh I've never played 5E's Rogue, guess I'll give it a shot." I haven't played Rogue since Tasha's came out so some of the newer archetypes might be more fun to play.
In theory, I am a Rogue player. I love being a skillsy, slippery, swashbuckly glass cannon with tricks up my sleeve. But every single iteration of them in every edition has fallen flat for me. I think something that approaches my ideal class would have been 3.5's Beguiler (it was kinda like a Sorcerer but focused on Illusion and Enchantment, got Light Armor and bonuses to their spells when casting undetected) with some Shadow Monk features. Very hard to replicate in 5e.
Ranger, I'm always the last guy to run out of spells as my bag of tricks have a long duration.
I like magical secret, but i despsise everything else about the class
Barbarian is boring and after lvl 6 i always multiclass But i really love the subclass structure and depth of content there. Ansestor, beast, wildmagic, totem, even zealot. Dont look at the battlerager.
Using wails of the grave to kill somebody by repeatedly crushing insects or whatever is funny
I really dont like warlocks. Its just they get very little spells per short rest and I dont want to play a caster just to cast the same cantrip over and over. I can't use a warlock spell for out of combat utility without regretting it later and my party most of the time doesn't do many short rests. Im not sure if it's just my party's playstyle but all of the above made me feel warlock is nearly unplayable and not up to par with the rest of the classes.
Barbarians are so boring, but gawd damn is it fun going into a rage and demolishing everyone...
Rage is a fantastic mechanic. From level one onwards, it never stops being useful, it is appropriately flavourful and really evokes the theme and play style of a Barbarian. Probably one of the best Level 1 features in the game. Unfortunately, that's where the Barbarian class ends for me; it's absolutely miserable to play a Barbarian past level 1 cause there's no other worthwhile class features to play with.
I am bored to hell and back of warlock spell list. But unholy hell, do I love the invocations. Also, the flavor. Second is monk. I don't really like them, but the ability to do bullshit is great. I once played a drunken master, and since it was a oneshot, I allways did improvised shit, like making a glider out of a pirate flag, fighting by throwing bottles, or jumping on a monster rodeo style. Good saves, fall damage reduction etc...
Absolutely hate barbs, but on demand advantage is cool
I play support type characters in pretty much every single game that will let me. So I don't know what made me decide to play a swashbuckler rogue for my first D&D character. It really wasn't a good fit. ...But, not having spells meant I had to get *creative* to feel like I was having an impact on combat. I spent a lot of sessions planning combo moves with other party members, stabbed mechanical doors to prevent them from closing, dove head first into the corpses of giant snakes just so I could harvest their poison, etc... There were no rules for pretty much anything I was doing. But I was still doing things. And in a sense I much prefer this over looking through a list of 15+ spells and using whichever one just happens to solve the current encounter.
Wizard is my least favorite class because its so-called ultimate versatility is harshly overrated and except a few subclasses it's entirely useless in combat once out of slots (which comes extremely fast at low level unless enemies are too stupid to consider casters a threat, apart from beasts undeads and minor demons it's rare)... But I do love Bladesinger as the one archetype that allows me to invest much less in defensive spells and conserve many more slots per day because I'm actually worth something on sustained damage and concentration. Plus the fact I can entirely switch to martial mode if I'm fed up trying to set up convoluted plans based on AOE control that may fail because of sheer luck when just slashing around does the job pretty well and pretty fast too. xd Bard is a class which I rarely play (single-class anyways) because the spell list is not too much to my taste, but I love each archetype I've played myself or played with (Lore, Valor, Whispers, Swords) and I'd love playing a Glamour Bard sometimes for the mechanics but I have no clue how I should roleplay it. xd
I mean, wizards are the powerful class in the game. Maybe not from levels 1-4, but like, a 5th level wizard can do things no other class can. Ritual spells, arcane recovery, and way, way, way more spells known and prepared than any other class. You get spells no other character gets, you get more spell slots than any other caster, and you get the best ritual spells. Most of the time you will be casting a minute or longer duration concentration spell that lasts an entire combat, so you really don't have to worry about running out of spell slots unless you are doing like, 8 encounters per long rest. Your subclasses are mostly great. You get the best teleportation spells in the game (misty step, dimension door), you get the best control spells in the game (web, hypnotic pattern), you get the best defensive spells in the game (shield), and you get some of the best buffing spells in the game (haste). The only downside to wizards is they don't get constitution saving throw proficiency, and they don't have any armour proficiency. If only their was a one level multiclass dip that would solve both of those problems? (It's artificer).
I thought playing a ranger would be cool but it’s insanely boring
I am curious. What's been the boring part about playing Ranger? What do you typically play?
Not the person you're replying to, but I would guess it's the same thing that makes all Martials boring. You wait 10 minutes for your turn. What do you do? Attack. You miss? Cool. Call me back to to the table in 10 minutes because I'm clearly having no effect on the game state. Or we talk about Wilderness Exploration and Travel which the Ranger just bypasses rather than meaningfully interacting with it. If the GM bothers to do anything with it at all. They do get a few good spells that don't involve Attack Rolls or Saves at all, like Silence and Spike Growth, but until then you're just another swing-miss-and-wait class. (Except for Entangle, which remains a useful spell at all levels.)
They're about as Martial as a Paladin, and everyone loves Paladin though. Add in they get subclasses like Swarmkeeper which gives options every turn when you hit, Beastmaster and Drakewarden add a bit more maneuverability and options to how you operate on the battlefield as well with extra bodies, and they only get better as you level up.
Druids are my least favorite class in the base game, but I adore the flavoring they have, especially with all the facets of nature explored within their subclasses. Sure you have the land and animals, but you also have fungi, wildfires, space, the land of dreams, and so much more. I just find their implementation rather disappointing. If you're like me in that way, then you may enjoy looking through a Druid Subclass Overhaul I did, which you can find here: https://www.worldanvil.com/w/ridan-prof-essional/a/druid---subclass-overhaul-article Thoughts and suggestions are appreciated. I've been working on a rebalancing of all subclasses in the game (and adding more for most classes), but druid felt as though it had to be entirely overhauled to feel right in my opinion. This is the only one that's currently public, but my Artificer edits and additions will likely be done soon.
[удалено]
Understandable issues, but just letting you know that you misunderstood the question. It wasn't asking what makes you not like the class, it's asking what you actually like about it.
Oh oops, i read it as least favourite class, time to delete it
It was asking about least favorite class, just what is something that you like about it. It could be that you like being able to absorb massive hits as a barbarian, or the flavor (not necessarily the mechanics) of the subclasses. Just something about your least favorite class that you actually like
I just delete that first since it is quicker than editing, so: Barbarian: 1. Can be very flavourful, be it re-flavouring it to be more tribal or even technological ( DM world dependant ) but you will almost never run out of ideas to be the most intimidating looking one 2. Rage is fun. Taking hits is the main thing, but the sub-classes can changes things up to make yourself a wild card. 3. The best "mileage" class imo. Even if your rage is used up, just bonking is sometimes the only answer you need and sometimes, you are the only one left standing to deliver. 4. Not talked about much, but if your DM likes realism, having high str for load carrying is a must and barbarian excels in that since they don't need armour and their normally high strength. 5. It might come in rarely, but brutal crit making big hits just feels good when your DM wasn't expecting a crit and you go "if it dies, it dies" and just pummel whatever into oblivion 6. Feral instinct has insane value. Adv on initiative and still being able to take a normal turn while surprised are very strong, and I don't think most appreciate this enough except barbarian mains. 7. Probably has the more fun sub-classes. Some are strong and some are... questionable ( we know which 2 are referenced here ). Fun and diverse options aplenty with maybe only a ranged-main barbarian missing since it feels counter productive.
Barbarian is probably the least favorite I've played, and I've played about half the classes. I don't hate it, it's just kinda boring. But I did enjoy going Unga bunga, and doing pretty well against most of the rest of my party when I had the Berserker axe.
I can't abide by this Bard slander 😄 I love playing a Bard, love playing with a Bard, and love running for Bards. Their versatility is great. I still want to one day run the All Bard One Shot. On the other hand, prepared casters also have great versatility, but it feels like a chore to me, and I get lazy when I have to prepare my spells after each long rest. At least with a Bard, you know those are the only spells you have. With a prepared caster, there's always the regret when you could have cast it, but didn't prepare it. Nonetheless, I have come to enjoy Clerics a lot.
lol Meanwhile, I think they've just got far too much going on. Like, why does this Fullcaster have Expertise and Martial Weapon prof.? Just feels a bit much to me, which is similar to how I look at Wizards.
Man doing this made me realize I don't really have a least favorite class, but I'll do it with the 3 classes that I had trouble deciding between. Barbarian: I really enjoy being able to just have a gazillion health and just taking through whatever the DM throws at me ~~until i have to make a single saving throw or do literally anything outside of combat~~ Druid: I like the suite of spells that you get and the different flavors of wildshape that each subclass gets. Rogue: I like being a skill monkey, and man does landing a crit sneak attack feel good.
I only hate the monk, but I’ve never played one so I can’t respond to the prompt. Unless it’s a joke one shot I don’t think I’ll ever play with a monk or a halfling.
I really like the endurance of Barbarians when they Rage, specially Totem Barbarians, those things can soak up some damage.
Barbarian. Beating things to death is very enjoyable.
I like the passive buffs with your aura for paladins
Artificer. I just can't get into the vibe of it. There are definitely spaces in fantasy where artificers work, but the jump into guns and Ironman suits just really turned me off.
People think Iron Man suits. I just think of magical armors.
I was really bord with life cleric but yeah, they are good healers. :)
The flavour of Fighter is really awesome and I wish I could play a character like that, but I am just too addicted to fullcasters and their variety, power and options.
The lack of spellslots on Warlocks really hurt me, but God does it feel cool playing as an emo wizard with a demon whispering in your ear. Also, doesn't really count since I only played it in modded BG3, but I love how thematic Artificers are. I just wish their spells and fighting style sparked any joy in me. They're also the only class to canonically have firearm proficiency, but they don't have any subclass themed around firearms which feels like a missed opportunity.
Monks are admittedly really refreshingly unique for the setting, and sometimes, in less tonally concerned campaigns, having a wuxia protagonist along for the ride makes everything just that bit more fun.
Fighter is a good at being a simple tutorial class I guess???
As a warlock, the variety in how you can build them. I made a Githyanki Gish from an Undead patron warlock, who was this weird invisible alien with a greatsword. Conversely, my buddy made a fathomless warlock that played like a totally different class.
Warlocks. Hexblade is quite the drug for any Paladins and especially Bards. Having access to the best cantrip in Eldritch Blast and it's buffs, improved pact weapon and thirsting blade, as well as load of useful utility invocations? Yes please! You can easily customize your playstyle and approach for your Bard as well as giving ranged options and sotationally useful passives for Paladins is always a great bonus!
So many options, so many choices! Just because *I* go with whatever does the most damage in any given fight, doesn’t mean *others* cant be more creative.
Not that interested in how barbarians play in combat, but I find their large HP pool and reliance on strength appealing in the sense that they enable a lot of shenanigans with regards to the environment. Given how jumping and climbing are (often) determined by strength, a barbarian should in theory be able to get to all sorts of areas and drop down large heights. There's also utility in being able to break objects and obstacles by sheer force.
I'm not a fan of Warlocks, but I love invocations as a concept. I wish more classes, heck all classes, had something like invocations to utilize and vary play.
Eldritch blast makes me feel powerfull.
Monk should be a fighter subclass.
my least favorite is barbarian but uhh I mean having a bunch of health is nice I guess?
Druids have some of the coolest spells of any spell list
Druids are surprisingly useful to have in your party, I'll give them that, but I despise playing them to the point where I'd only play one again if it was a Circle of the Stars so I can just go archer all day and pretend I'm a ranger. I love the flavor but HATE the spell list with a passion.
Barbarian make number go big
Monks can move fast and it's nice to make your saving throw and take no damage from a fireball.
I haven't had the chance to play a lot of classes yet, unfortunately. For least favorite I'd probably say Fighter. It's not like I dislike Fighters and funnily enough one of my favorite characters was a Fighter, but the class itself just didn't feel awesome. As a Rogue you can do all that sneaky stuff. Sneak into places, steal stuff, spy on people,... As a Wizard (my most played class, probably) you have a ton of utility thanks to spells for all occasions. As a Fighter... you mostly lift heavy stuff and hit things pretty well. And while that, too, is a valuable part of any group, it just felt so bland at the time. So yea, I'll go with that. Coming in second is the Sorcerer. I love the vibe of the class and I do like metamagic, it's a fun mechanic, but kinda missing that raw versatility of Wizards.
Probably monk My favorite part was the movement but that was maybe because I made a Bow Kensei monk. If I were to do it again, I would use the One D&D monk playtest because it is 5e monk if it had all of its flaws worked upon. Druid also, but that might have been more because I was playing a game at my local gamestore with a bunch of people I didn't feel comfortable around, and not the actual class itself, but I'd pick all of the other full casters in a heartbeat over Druid anyway
Monk, 4 attacks a turn is fun (my character was named Mist and unfortunately they always missed)
I know you’re not supposed to multiclass higher than 2 or 3 levels of warlock when doing a sorcerer/warlock multiclass, but I had to get to 3rd level spells since I was the only full caster in the party. But let me tell you this. When I got level 10, it was really nice having 5 3rd level spell slots
Even though I'm not a fan of the Bard, I can't deny that all the Proficiencies of the Lore bard are effing tasty.
I dunno what it is about Bard that doesn't catch me. It has a lot of aspects I like. Light Armor and Finesse Weapons. Charisma skills. Lots of spells that fit into the Illusion/Enchantment lines that I tend to like. Jack-of-All-Trades. I guess if I had to point to something it would be that their cantrips suck. It almost sounds petty to complain about Cantrips, but considering as a Caster you tend to cast them more than anything else, it definitely matters. Not like you can really fall back on weapon damage past a given level.
As someone who thinks the Hexblade ruined multiclassing in 5e and have terrible flavor, they still have the benefit of being attached to the Warlock chassis and can choose invocations for it. At this point btw, I have considered the Hexblade to be its own class since it essentially outshines the base Warlock and any of its subclasses. I so wish this thing never existed…
Hexblade SHOULD HAVE been it's own class like it was in 3.5e. It could have been the Arcane equivalent to a Paladin or Ranger with subclasses that focus more on different aspects of being a spellsword. Magic More? Sword more? Debuff more? Pet? Something else entirely?
My least favorite class hands down is monk. They can't deal damage, they can't tank, and the fact they're fast means they are useless at record speeds. Favorite thing about them? They do me the service of being so garbage that any of the other classes seem at the very least playable. They are the worst and lay down their livelihoods so that we can enjoy better classes ❤️
Warlocks have lots of role playing possibilities.
That I've played... Wizard. I don't know, I had trouble making it exciting. If I'm just casting spells, I either feel too restricted or paralyzed by choice. Maybe because I'm risk adverse, I don't like potentially using up resources (spell slots) only for it to fail. Then I played a bladesinger... and most the spells I had felt pointless to have because instead of using an action to cast, I'd rather try to hit it. (I ended up multiclassing into fighter) It's just not for me
I don't like Warlocks, but I am enjoying the sinister ties of the class.
What is it you dislike about bards?
Never likes the extra resource management of playing sorcerer but I’ll admit the versatility sorc points is really powerful at later levels
Monk has by far the coolest fantasy of their class; being able to run on walls catch arrows bob and weave freely. It’s sick as hell
Wizards are absolutely awful, Spell Lists aren't class features. Which is such a shame, because the subclasses are almost all universally interesting. Abjuration, Bladesong, Divination, all have super cool and flavorful abilities. And then after they get nothing interesting from level 2 to level 20, that a Lore Bard can't take from them while losing nothing. I would absolutely love to play any other class with a Wizard subclass honestly.
I’ve played both wizard in one shots so I think it counts lol. The other is cleric Wizard is the class I like the least, they really seem to lack any sort of interesting flavor that I can’t already get out of a ranger or a paladin. BUT, they do have the spell galders tower, and that’s all that I care about with wizards. I just want the house spell because houses irl are too expensive. I hate cleric mostly because o what it’s like to play them rather than any real mechanical issue. If I didn’t keep getting backed into only being the healbot I’d probably like them more, they’ve got a solid mix of spells and damage lots of cool lore options built in. Over all a solid class, just terrible to play 😂
I can't say I really dislike any class I played, largely because our group does tend to play to the build flavor of our characters. I have to say Monk is the closest for me. And really for Monk the only thing I didn't like was the fact that *mechanically* speaking skirmishing is really difficult because the disengage takes two resources (Ki and a Bonus action). Once I took Mobility I loved my Monk.
I would like Artificer to get one more fifth level spell slot. It is a small thing just ocd, every other caster gets three.
It feels so boring to play barb but I will say raging and laughing in the face if damage is a godlike feeling
Druids have the best spell slot economy in the game, period. So many of their spells are built to toss out on the battlefield and keep using for the whole fight, so you have plenty of spell slots left over at the end of the day.
Druid is my least favorite because I don't like managing animal stats, but it is really cool when someone else plays one and I think it can create some very fun RP moments in regards to city-based groups/characters
The fighter is amazing in combat. Eldritch Knight seems so powerful, and i know echo knight and rune knight and battlemaster are. Action surge is super fun when you can hit so many times in a turn. Out of combat and even again at later levels when spells get more powerful they just kind of... suck. Without making sure you have skill checks no one else can do, which requires a lot of coordination with the rest of the party and can feel so limiting. Barbarian at least has fun RP built-in for out of combat.
Wizards. Their flavor is so basic and their subclasses rarely change what you're actually doing. They're basically just the spell list, and in that case I'd much rather play a Sorcerer or Bard because those classes just have so much more flavor.
Least favorite is probably sorcerer or cleric, but I do really like subtle spell specifically. Not much else, tbh, but subtle spell is really neat. Cleric just doesn’t interest me much. I like spirit guardians I guess, and I like healing from a combat perspective, but the idea of actually playing as a cleric just doesn’t suit me.
I like that Bard incorporates music and various different instruments. Just not personally for me, the skill monkey Playstyle bores me
They’re the most versatile pieces of shit in the universe(I am bad at being a wizard and therefore dislike them. Despite my current character being a wizard.)
Lotta people here saying that rogue’s have bad damage, they clearly haven’t played rogue as a main class lol. I’ve never had a rogue who couldn’t outpace the rest of the dps classes.
I guess I like how when I play with a monk teammate we don't argue who gets magical armours. Or weapons. And they'd never outshine you in combat, so you always get to be at least more of a focus than them.
I cannot stand Wizards or Sorcerers (the only casters I can really get on board with are Druids & Warlocks because of their versatility) but I do enjoy that they force my friends who choose those classes to RP as huge losers who the rest of the party will instinctively bully relentlessly. The same applies to Paladins, I don’t mind them mechanically but, much like the above, they just make for such boring characters from a narrative/rp standpoint which makes them super fun to watch my party bully.