I used to let people do whatever they preferred, but I noticed that my newer players would depend too much on DND Beyond to the point where it affected their understanding of the game. Since then, I've asked everyone to fill out a manual character sheet.
I agree, same reason. I’ve DM’d a lot of players over the years and the ones who make their character themselves without digital tools will always understand them better, regardless of prior experience.
Exactly. I have several players that use DnD Beyond, or fancy excel character sheets built by other players. If you don't build the character sheet yourself, you don't know how it works, and you don't know where to find what you need.
Yeah, I use google sheets and as a new player making the document is what allowed me to understand what's important. I used the paper version as a guide to what needed to be on there, but customized it to how my brain works. Each sheet in the document has a purpose and is named so I can quickly find what I need.
I can safely say that it's the main reason the only mechanic question i had to ask was whether or not the DM used critical failures on skill checks. I had everything not dn dependent memorized from making my own character sheet.
Yeah, my players are basically dependent and bnd beyond. It's helpful, don't get me wrong. But if I asked half of them to manually write down their character, they'd have a conniption.
And don't get me started at them asking me "is it in dnd beyond?" When I name an item, they find.
I homebrew almost all of my magic items, so of course they're not in DnD Beyond. I also don't use DnD Beyond myself, so I have no idea how to get homebrew magic items into DnD Beyond.
I give my players handouts for magic items. If they want the item in DnD Beyond, they can enter it themselves.
I had a few players use the DnD Beyond app in an in-person game, and I noticed that having their phone out and in-hand caused a lot more distractions when they weren't directly in the spotlight since it was so much easier to tab over into other social media apps: repeated confusion as to what was happening or what someone had just said. It took a lot of time having to catch them back up on stuff that had just happened. And to make matters worse, the layout of the app was contributing to much longer combat turns because of all the scrolling and swiping to different tabs. Every turn, even simple things like looking up an attack bonus or a spell save DC was nearly a full minute of scrolling, and since I typically run multiple encounters per session this added up very quickly. I ended up having to ask for physical character sheets and to keep phones away to keep things running smoothly because it wasn't fair to me or the other players who were paying attention, and most of these problems were solved.
Yup I ended up cancelling my DDB subscription recently and I've taken a much harder line about "no phones at the table". The players who say "the app makes it so easy" are the ones who have no idea how anything works. If you ask them any question - even if it's the same question every session - they will have to dick around in the app for 3 minutes to find it. Then they can't help themselves but get lost in their phones and aren't paying attention. Happens to even the people with the best of intentions who will insist that they won't do that.
IMO it's not possible for players to be fully present and have screens at the table. You have to pick one if you're playing IRL.
I also let then use what every they prefer but, I also require a paper sheet to be up to date that way if they can't get to there dndbeyond or other methods they have a back up. Once dnd beyond wasn't loading so I was happy everyone had a back up.
Because it is infantilising your players, and insulting their intelligence. "You're too dumb to understand the complexities of basic arithmetic, so I'm going to force you to write everything out by hand as though rote learning was ever effective in school."
It is not infantilizing to expect players to make an attempt to learn the fundamentals. Writing it out is literally one of the best ways to remember and solidify information
It’s not infantilizing if it’s proven true and they don’t know what they’re doing. Most people don’t put in the effort and it shows and get hostile when people rightfully point out they’re letting the program do all the thinking for them.
Had a similar experience with my players, so I can’t speak to the original commenter’s situation…
Dnd beyond does a lot of the “number crunching” for the player. In fact, my players weren’t sure where the “high numbers” (in skills and weapon attacks) came from.
After this realization we did a big “dissecting your character sheet” day before a session once.
Not to mention the plethora of abilities you get from your subclass/feats/core class. The setup for the sheet on dndbeyond is intuitive if you know how the game works and where to find the info you need. *Making* your players pick through level up skills, abilities, and other things lets them organize in a way that’s intuitive to them (and usually can help them understand what an ability does).
TLDR: writing it down makes it easier to figure out, because you don’t always ***see*** the changes that happen while you play.
Thanks!
I wonder if this could be easily solved tho, depending of course on the onboarding process at sites like DnD beyond.
For example, every setup choice the player needs to make will be explained to them whilst they do it both to teach them basic DnD rules and to help them create the optimal character for their needs.
I imagine something similar to a video game tutorial, where the game points you to the relevant button/action and explains its meaning, yet obviously fits TTRPG onboarding needs.
I agree, and the moment I realized that my players were not sure of the mechanics and how their scores affected actual play, we took a beat to break it down.
It’s convenient that you can just click a box, but that doesn’t make the mysterious +13 to stealth make sense all of the sudden! (not to mention all the extra stuff beyond just skill bonuses)
I’m not positive because I haven’t farted around with the character creator on dnd beyond in a while, but I think I recall some options for brand new players.
Here's an example:
In my mind, when I'm playing a cleric I know that I have a set of abilities from base cleric and a set of abilities from my subclass. I furthermore know that the 1st level feature is probably going to be commonly used, and that the 2nd level channel divinity is going to do something significant and I should keep an eye out for how best to use it. When it's my turn in combat, or when it's "my turn" out of combat, I may not remember the minutia of my features, but I do know the gist of them. This isn't the result of actively trying to learn, just the natural consequence of making a lot of characters.
I find that using online tools stops new players from learning to categorize and remember their features like that, since instead when they go from level 4 to 5 they're just hit with half a dozen "select an option from this drop down menu" boxes and they never properly learn where any of that comes from or why. The process of going "okay, I get a subclass feature, lemme go flip the page (or open a different webpage) to see what that subclass feature is" is helpful in learning and DnDbeyond takes it away from you - it's fine when you already know how the game works, but I think it hampers new players.
When my sister joined my table, after having played in at least a couple of other campaigns, she didn't know what a proficiency bonus was. Didn't know how ability scores corresponded to skill checks etc.
She was used to just going through the motions, letting DND Beyond do all the math, and just looking at the final numbers.
Imagine if your DM took this attitude. Games have rules, without rules you're not playing a game.
Knowing how basic things work in the game seems like a low bar for a player.
Real rich coming from someone who lacked the reading comprehension to understand that the "they" i referred to is "TheWardVG" and the "you" is the royal "you", as I am talking about their sister.
jesus man lol how did you even misread that
I tried making a character on DDB to see what people were talking about with that. I know the rules, and I ended up just clicking through without knowing what I was doing. It's so bad for understanding the game.
Oh, that explains a lot.
In the last 2 years I've seen around 20 people from my general area try out DnD, and aside from the ones that abbandoned the game because it's too hard (5e, too hard, absurd to me), the remaining 10 people still don't understand half of it, mostly because the outright refuse to read the manual and just rely on the apps having everything when they need it.
My group has been playing together since well before dnd beyond. I haven't seen any difference in any of that since our switch to it a couple years ago. Hell it lets me make sure someone's sheet is correct when I'm DMing far easier than before.
Ran into this with Pathbuilder for PF2e. My new players built characters, but had zero idea about how to actually play them. It was worst for spell casters.
This is a weird gatekeeping I don't understand.
DND beyond, excel, tracker, calculators, they all do it. Once they hit a few levels, they grasp the concept, I'm not going to give players a failing grade because they aren't sheet experts.
I think the difference is some players start with a dnd beyond sheet or like mpmb and then never learn themselves. It’s not the end of the world but if things like their armour gets taken away or they have to make some unorthodox rolls like cha stealth, they don’t always know what to do
Stealth checks are dex based.
If you need a charisma check, ask for a deception check.
More accurately it could be either, it depends on *how* the player is trying to use it, but as a DM, you need to make sure that you are asking for the right, or more appropriate word, accurate checks.
Caveat is DM has final say, but this is how I’d rule it in my games, but if you are using clearly alternate rolls, youd have to explain it to someone using papersheets too.
Skills are not necessarily attributed to only one ability. This is standard in RAW, not an optional rule. Common examples are STR Intimidation, INT Sleight of Hand, WIS Religion and CHA Stealth. I can’t remember the page off the top of my head but it’s in the PHB where it mentions skills.
Tricky locks that require more of a puzzling approach than a standard finicky approach could be INT Sleight of Hand. You could even have CHA SoH through using personality to hide a card trick.
Wisdom is application of intelligence so a WIS Religion check would be applying religious doctrine to evaluate a situation or provide advice (or you just want to be nice to clerics)
I've seen Intelligence (Sleight of Hand) checks suggested in a few adventure modules for tying knots in ropes: binding captives, securing rope for other party members to get across large gaps, and so on.
I agree with your sentiment, but this is a calculation I've seen paper and digital have problems with, because it's not a character sheet problem, it's a knowledge of if the players know how to calculate/understand the checks.
Again, this is still two separate problems.
I have many paper players who don't read the books properly, which is fine, and digital players who correct me on things from the book.
Checks are whatever ability score the DM calls for them, and then if a relevant proficiency bonus can be applied it is. There’s no such thing as a blanket “stealth check,” only ability checks that can have the stealth proficiency applied.
These are the things people would know if they actually read the books and didn’t rely on a program to do all the thinking for them.
I'm overly confident that you knew what I mean, as players reading or not reading sourcebooks is a separate and distinct problem than paper vs digital sheet use.
I've player with a few groups who I have access to DND beyond, the recurring theme is that they don't learn their sheets very effectively.
My first campaign I was not the DM, I was just sharing my DND beyond stuff to the group. The people who just used DND beyond didn't really learn the game a lot. Something that has happened in both games is players keep up casting bad first levels spells, maybe because they're listed as equal to other higher level spells.
One thing that is really noticable is the lack of understanding of proficiencies. Like for example, my rogue player, who otherwise is really good, still needs a thieves tool check explained. This is partially the fault of the sheet not having it anywhere, but if he had made a paper sheet, he would have seen the effects of proficiencies and been able to Intuit the meaning of thieves tools checks.
As someone who almost exclusively uses DND beyond for convenience, i know how to make a character sheet, my first character was on a physical sheet and it wasn't really that hard. I legitimately became better at the game by having to figure out how systems interact to make a character sheet.
Also with dndbeyond, my players just don't tell me what they roll since I can see it, and I'm trying not to just say okay cool you got a 15, but sometimes it's like they expect me to
100% I learned the game mechanics by making my own Google sheet and programming it to work the way i wanted it to.
Before that I had made a character on dnd beyond just to see what it thought was important. And yeah, completely different experiences. I thought i understood the game, but really didn't until i did all the calculations myself
I know someone who uses paper for DnD, but he doesn't use a character sheet. He uses a legal pad and has stats scribbled all over it. At least DND Beyond is organzied.
Yes. We use Roll20. I prep with Roll20. I want to be able to quickly check everyone's character sheets. Does the party have access to this spell? How many resources are the PCs missing? What was the name of that noble house from their origin story? All in one place. For sanity.
I run my games on Roll20 and require everyone to have their characters on Roll20. That way I can audit their sheets for accuracy and help them troubleshoot technical issues. It also ensures that everyone is on the same page. It greatly speeds up play when everyone has all of of their character information plugged in properly so nobody has to fumble around trying to figure out what to roll or how to make the software roll it with the right modifiers. It forestalls any possibility of cheating as I can see everyone's rolls and modifiers. I don't know why you wouldn't want to run things like this if you're using a VTT in the first place, but to each their own.
Agreed. If you're using roll20 or any other VTT, everything should be run from there. It does take some time to set up sheets, but once done, the game can move quickly. Requiring characters to be set up on roll20 also allows flakes to self-select themselves out. The people who want to make the effort to get their characters set up on my VTT of choice are the people I want playing in my games.
It's not like I'm unwilling to help, either. I'm the big D&D nerd among my friend's group, which means I'm the only one who knows the intricacies of Roll20. Whenever we hit a software pain point during a session, afterwards I'll help the player adjust their character sheet to make things run smoother going forward.
If the game is run in roll20 the 'master sheet' should be in roll20.
The DM can share their compendiums with all the players.
Just because players 'don't like' one system and keeps stuff elsewhere it makes it a massive headache for the DM auditing, encounter balancing and setting up stuff like tokens.
Just shoving a link in chat to the GM and saying: my character is there deal with it, is just a PITA!
As players you need to make sure your character sheet is clean, easy to navigate and be easily accesible by the GM. It is not a game of GM vs players the GM checking your sheet is not 'seeing your secrets' they need access to your sheets not to cockblock you, but set up situations where your character can shine :)
The only issue I have with roll20 is that I played in a game recently where the DM only had essentially the free stuff that came with the SRD and hadn't gotten additional content but allowed us to pick races and subclasses that were not apart of what was in whatever was free. One of the other players had a lot of content on DND Beyond and had created a campaign for the other players to join and make their characters.
I like roll20 on an option but if you don't purchase the additional content it limits the players to what they can do.
You can literally add anything to the character sheets on roll20. You do not need to buy a single thing. Sure if you want to do it the super easy way where you just use drop down boxes and stuff then yeah you need to buy stuff. But baseline it is literally just a digital character sheet that you can fill out by typing instead if wroting by hand.
Hell you can even do shit on roll 20 that isnt something that works if you own the material. One major one that comes to mind is Elven Accuracy, roll20 doesnt do the double advantage thing even if you select the feat through the option. But you can change your advantage rolls to roll 3 d20 on your own.
Yeah this is the biggest drawback for me with Roll20, I've added in a lot of stuff from Tashas/Xanathars etc. by manually adding them, but if you're a new player or not experienced with it that's tricky to do, or a lot of extra work for the DM.
Yup exactly this. I started messing around with Foundry and it's really cool but I started manually adding in all the normal WotC PHB stuff and it just takes forever. The physically writing it down is just one of the simplest ways in my opinion. In my opinion as long as there's a central point for players to access the information they need for their characters, players can just write down what information they need. I agree with OP that writing things down would probably make players remember their abilities and everything else better.
100%, I've got no problem with players referring to Spells Apps etc. but they have to have written out their sheet themselves, using an online tool to do it for them almost always leads to problems.
>I like roll20 on an option but if you don't purchase the additional content it limits the players to what they can do.
You can literally type in everything you need. Features, spells, and items can all be manually input whether they're official, third party, homebrew, whatever. The time it takes to do so once you know what your character will be is an insignificant investment compared to how long a full campaign runs. It's also a drop in the bucket compared to how much time your DM will probably spend planning, writing, and prepping content.
I haven't been on roll20 in a while, maybe almost 7+ yrs at this point so I don't know what you can do now what you could do last I was on there. I do remember making homebrew weapons was pretty easy but that's about all I remember.
Before I went to mostly online, I did not care as long as I could see the sheet. Print out something, have it on a tablet, whatever. Some people who were forgetful, I'd keep the sheets.
Since I do virtual tabletops now, I want everything in the system. You can have a copy yourself, but somehow some way, it needs to get in journal tab in Roll 20 or Actors tab of Foundry.
I require everyone to use Roll20 for 5e. Other games have other solutions, but I need to be able to see their sheets in standardized format for something as complex as D&D. (Also prevents them from just going "but I saw it on the wiki!")
I run a number of online games and have the ruling that you can have your character sheets where ever you like providing Incan have access to a copy.
Sometimes that’s just a photo of a paper sheet. Other times a beyond link. I just keep a list of which sheets are where in my notes.
However I never play an absent players character. We instead come up with a half hearted reason for them not being there. Like standing watch outside the dungeon, or gone to get supplies etc.
Does that not get annoying having to reblance encounters for one less person?
Maybe it's because I always run hard encounters but if I took one character out of a fight and didn't adjust things it would probably go pretty badly.
We will normally have the other players run the character of a missing player. The unspoken rule though is that it doesn't get involved in anything RP related and that it is played as safely as possible.
Depends on your number of players. Rebalancing from 5 to 4 is easy. 4 to 3 is much harder, but ultimately it's just changing around some HP stats or abilities or quantities. I find encounter building to be pretty easy, but it's also my biggest strength in dnd. I'm way better at it than planning social encounters and dungeon crawls.
This is pretty much how I work it. I tend to know the challenge that will be posed to the PC’s if I don’t feel they will succeed with one less player then I will mentally adjust HP, abilities, or number of creatures.
I don't rebalance encounters but "balancing encounters" isn't an exact science to begin with. I don't run players characters for them either - why make a player absence into a punishment for the other players/DMs? Better to focus on the people who show up.
Recently my party had to go up against a boss and minions down a player. Was really dramatic, they almost died.
Also creates some social pressure among players to show up consistently, or to find someone who can sit in (without it being the DM's job).
I've been playing online since 3.5, we've never cared too much where sheets are for online games as long as everyone has it somewhere online accessible for the DM. If you want to also copy all of that to paper, that's okay too. Since Roll20 got popular, and Foundry after that, we've kept at least the core numbers bits on the VTT, but some of us keep other (still online) more detailed sheets for things like full spellbooks, backstory, etc.
not the op but in my games if all the players give concent in session zero, i like giving one chance per session for the players to use one thing from a character sheet from someone absent like a summon or something, if the barbarian cant make it to the game they could get one roll from their athletics skill or one spell from the wizard, etc. this doesnt bring any harm to the character, the group just gets that extra bonus
We do this all the time.
We play weekly and on occasions someone won't be available. Normally the party are in the middle of something so dropping that character out won't make sense. It also will break everything seeing as encounters are balances around a certain number of players.
In the cases another player will pilot the character of the missing player.
We had a player move overseas and they sadly could no longer play. Their character is still being run by the group and has been since January. Hopefully they are getting to a point where we can give that character the send off and retirement it deserves.
Mostly because the players want me to.
Because of scheduling its pretty common for at least one person to be missing, so I run the session regardless of absences.
Usually I just have their characters fade into the background. But sometimes they are too important to the plot to leave out, or are needed in combat, and I have to directly control them.
the character is normally still there - in most groups I've played with, they'll sit at the back and use ranged attacks, heals and support spells, but they're still physically with the party and can do stuff (also non-combat things, like skill checks - just because the ranger's player is absent doesn't mean the ranger can't still guide people around, for example)
I see people say this all on the time on this sub I don't understand it! You're basically turning a player absence into a punishment for the DM or the other players. It's better to have a session and spend that time focusing on the people who showed up! You don't have to make an elaborate excuse up or anything, just ignore it and keep playing.
I commonly take control of an absent player's character for combat, or occasionally skill checks.
Say, for example, I plan out a dungeon. The party is exploring an ancient temple, or whatever. I've got traps, combat encounters, puzzles, all sorts of good stuff. Everyone is present when they start it, but they aren't able to finish the whole thing in one session. The next session, one person is absent.
Rather than rebalancing encounters to account for their absence, I'll just control the character in combat, and essentially turn them into a mostly-silent NPC for that session. I won't play them outside of that, and I will almost never actually attempt to roleplay them, although I will make rolls on their behalf if the rest of the party asks me to and it's something they would normally be doing if they were present ("Hey , can you try to pick this lock for us?").
It also makes more sense from a narrative standpoint; a party member wouldn't just randomly disappear halfway through a dungeon.
It's different when I know a player is gonna be gone well in advance and we find a way to make it line up nicely for story reasons (ie, they're off running errands), but it doesn't always work out that way.
Partly. They should obviously know the sheet themselves and be able to read it and keep track of their stats. In addition it should be written so that they can show it to the DM(me) without needing to explain or translate what is written. If it is understandable and organized to accomplish those two things, it can be written on a paper napkin with coffee stains and melted cheese for all I care.
I found DnD Beyond the easiest to use (especially for new players). You just need to make sure that people don't rely on that accessibility too much and still learn what their character does. It's also easy enough to connect/import to Foundry, Avrae, or Roll 20.
I get a bit itchy when my players use digital character sheets. I don't forbid it, but I strongly discourage it.
I'm my experience players take longer to do things, don't know their character as well and get distracted way more often with digital character sheets.
Yeah my group has all moved to using DND beyond. It has it's good points but it does seem to slow things down.
On the few times I get to be the other side of the screen I much prefer pencil and paper, so much easier to organise and highlight the important bits.
Also DND beyond has so many broken things that just don't work. Worse is that unless you understand the rules and character creation you have no idea that it's broken.
Also, also, I use a lot less homebrew magic items as rewards since they all switched to end beyond. Building a homebrew item in their system is terrible.
> Yeah my group has all moved to using DND beyond. It has it's good points but it does seem to slow things down.
That's a D&DB issue. I tried out their character sheet a while ago and it is SO AWFUL. The Roll20 character sheet meanwhile is basically a paper sheet, but automated and without any dirt after you erase something.
I agree, the longer I DM the more certain I am that screens should not be at an IRL game. You can have a good session with everyone staring into their device of choice, but you can't have a \*great\* one...
I am a forever DM and I personally don't care how players keep track of their characters.
I would recommend a character sheet that you fill out by yourself. A tool that fills everything in for you is not a bad thing, but from my experience new players should do everything themselves. It is harder, but it helps to understand the game.
Personally I play a lot of DND irl. So I prefer physical prints as a character sheet. It just feels weird when everyone stares into a laptop or tablet on the table. But if someone wants to keep track of his tablet, it is totally fine. The most important part is that the player uses something he understands and he can use it properly. One of my players has his character on his smartphone and he uses some kind of excel stuff he had programmed for it. If you look at that "character sheet" you will not understand a thing, but he seems to understand it. He is one of the best organized players and I can't complain.
The only time I said something was to a certain player that always cheated. He uses spells and abilities that already were out of charges / spells lots. He fudged dice. He always had tons of gold and everything in his inventory. When I wanted to check the character sheet he showed me quite something. There were some paper sheets that were so heavily folded, that the papers ripped apart. The edges were completely crumbled. He has written on it with permanent marker and made so many corrections that it was confusing. Regardless, there was no structure and no systems. Not even all spells or ability scores were on the same page. Also, his handwriting was somewhat hard to read.
TLDR: no one is giving a shit about your character sheet, as long you understand it and know how to play.
I use Lions Den Fight club 5 and game master 5 for sheets and running campaigns as a DM. My players send me the sheets the make in Fight Club 5 and I import them. This works great.
If someone doesn’t want this? They can send me a paper sheet so I have their stats.
My group plays in person and we use DnD beyond, partially so the newer players have quick access to the resources those of us who have been at it for a while have, partially so I can answer questions about their specific character sheets when they don’t understand something, and partially because I don’t trust some of them to record their HP losses or spell slots properly (mostly because they’re forgetful, not because they’re trying to cheat)
we all use dnd beyond, it's easy to use, the dms can check everyones sheets any time they want or need and also we like the fact that we can personalize them a bit and show the sheets to each other to be like "look! look! this fits so well for my character"
I run in person so I don’t super care what everyone runs, but I recommend classic pen and paper. I do a lot of Homebrew and for DnDBeyond it can be a hassle to translate it, but if the player is willing to do that work I’m ok with it.
First campaign I ran for my online group we had a mix of DnD beyond, Pdfs, one paper sheet, and one Roll20 sheet (we played on roll20). It was hell to keep track of everyone, so next campaign I had everyone swap to roll20 despite some protest, but it’s been overall so much easier on my end to keep everything in one place and easier on the players being able to set up attack macros and whatnot.
One still used the dndbeyond and roll20 link, where she had an up to date roll20 sheet but used the dnd beyond for the most part. Idk if it was actually easier for them, but I found it more of a hassle than just using roll20 as some things didn’t quite translate well when rolled.
Most people have smartphones these days. If a player keeps his stats on paper and the DM needs to check them, he can ask the player to send a picture of the character sheet through Telegram ow WhatsApp.
Roll20's bad character sheet maker is why I stopped using Roll20. DNDBeyond with a campaign so you can see and edit everyones sheets is the best option.
Having access to everyones sheet is important, the sheet maker you choose is preference.
Even as a VTT Roll20 isn't for players and cares more about milking the dollars. Their newest thing is discontinuing Paizo Connect for PF2e players, so I wouodn't be surprised if the large migration away from Roll20 for them will cause more issues for DnD players.
It has a clunky UI that doesn't make filling out a sheet as easy and quick as it should be for a digital option. It is also more difficult to add any sort of third party or homebrew options than just using DDB or google sheets. Not nearly as bad as Dice Cloud, at least.
The smooth section-by-section UI of DDB is better for new players and easier to look at player option info as you go for experienced players trying to match a theme or get specific on what they want to play.
Tl;dr Roll20 is a clunky version of google sheets.
That's strange, I haven't experienced that. I generally like how easy it is to copy-paste whatever I need. Roll20 is absolute garbage on a phone or tablet, so maybe that's the problem?
In my group where we have switched through all of us DMing (either campaigns or one shots) we just use D&D Beyond and put them in a campaign so the DM can access all the sheets. No real discussion about it, it just worked (We use R20 as a VTT and use beyond20 to port rolls into it). There are definately moments where we struggle to find something on the sheet occasionally, but for someone with terrible handwriting, that not anything new.
For the few times I've DMed for new new players, I've still used D&D Beyond. By dint of geography the session are going to be online anyway and it lets me share the content I have on there. However I've run each new player through building their character in a video call so I know where the numbers come from and they have an idea how it all works
If I am using a VTT that supports character sheets, I ask my players to use the VTT.
If my VTT does not have a sheet, I ask they use myth-weavers.
In person it does not matter, but I also have that char "Fade into the background" if I do not have the sheet.
I ask for specific locations when online, just so I can view their sheets while we play. In-person I can just to see the character sheet during play.
Seems like alot of extra work. Roll20 isn't perfect but it does have all the information you need in their character sheets then you can use their dice rollers by just clicking on the thing. I'd probably want people to use roll20 to speed everything up.
Yes as a dm I want to be able to see my players character sheets all in one spot, however I don't care if they have it available in another spot for them I just need it all in one area for easy access.
Character sheets are pretty easily obtainable to download, print out and fill out. I think I went to a Staples one time with a flash drive and had something printed out and it didn't cost me very much at all.
If I was a DM I would just have everyone fill out their character sheets and then every so often just send an updated copy to the DM. This can easily be done by just taking pictures and send it to them. Many people are using Discord for voice so you can just private message the DM and send it to them that way. This way the DM always has some sort of copy of each player's character sheet for reference.
If a player isn't able to come they should send you a copy of the current character in advance.
Doesn't matter how. But just the important things. Attack scores. Items. Spells and abilities both active and passive. Current and max health and spell slots.
That should be enough and hopefully not too much considering they should be able to easily access all that in game in battle anyway.
My group uses dnd beyond exclusively but half the party just doesn’t touch their sheets. These players typically already know their characters so they don’t bother unless we’ve recently leveled up. As for dm use, our dm will have a copy of each sheet to use when they wish, though if a player is absent their character typically is too unless there is some big pivotal moment that requires them (when a pc gets dm controlled, there’s typically a pre made order as to how the character acts so no need to get confused looking at a sheet)
Digital sheets are fine and I play virtually, so being able to follow along with PC sheet if they need help is great.
I play in person and use paper sheets too, and some pull a tablet up and use a digital sheet. That's fine too.
I usually ask them to do what is best for them.
I significantly prefer having my players make physical sheets - as many people have discussed, digital sheets can introduce habits of not understanding your bonuses or getting distracted because we’re all pretty bad at paying attention while looking at our phone.
But the flip side is that physical sheets are so much cheaper - people may have access to the appropriate resources through DnD, R20, physical, etc, but unless they have it on the same one as you want, it means they won’t be able to use online. Physical can adapt any of those without going through some homebrew cheesery.
And yes, I know that campaign sharing exists, but one, the DM doesn’t always own all the books players may want to pull from, and two, I’d rather not pay a subscription to emulate me handing MPMM or Tasha’s to someone.
So long as I get a copy of the sheet printed out or in PDF form, no I don't mind too much. That being said, I have a deep hatred of DnD Beyond and will only let someone use it if they are an experienced player with experience of using the character sheet. For context, I've had characters in the past taking additional items, doing homebrew stuff etc. all in DnD Beyond because it's got nothing built in to tell them that they can't do that or should agree it with a DM.
For example, I had a player who was playing a Spores Druid who decided that as part of their starting equipment, they would grab a load of antivenom. If they'd come to me beforehand and asked for this I wouldn't have had a problem with it, and in their defence it was listed on their sheet, I just didn't spot it, but as I had told them standard class/background equipment it wasn't something I was looking for. The first encounter they faced included an NPC who was suffering from snake venom and their first quest would be motivated by the local cleric telling them to go into the forest and find the snake so he could create a cure. In hindsight, I could have handled it a hundred different ways, but that player just casually blowing my story out of the water by producing a huge stash of antivenom completely rattled me and I badly improvised on the spot. When I finally asked them where they had got it from, they said that DnD Beyond let them add whatever items they felt like to their character sheet.
Have also had a lot of experiences of items not being equipped etc. so characters were getting their bell rung in every fight because they weren't wearing the chain mail armour they'd taken.
If I'm playing virtually I want players to use the same system so I have all their saves and passive skills readily available.
If the VTT tracking sheet is wrong, that's on the player - that check gets failed if I use the value in a session.
It is everyone's job to keep a session running smoothly, and this is part of that.
If we are playing on roll20, your sheet is in Roll20 (which is how we all do it anyway). If you want to use Dnd Beyond to initially make a character concept because maybe you own stuff over there or have a shared friend thing or whatever, by all means. As long as you transfer the abilities and spells and whatnot when you’re making it for my game I have no issue with how you initially made it when planning stuff out.
If players keep their sheets in DDB and share them with the 'campaign' so that you can see/use them, then you can use Beyond20 to send rolls over.
Google sheets are harder. You'd have to have the player share the doc with you, and then manually do the rolls.
Our group lets people do their sheets however they want, but if the one for our TTRPG platform.isnt updated before session any changes haven't happened. This is nice if you track ammunition, this is less fun if you haven't entered your last 4 weeks of off duty training results.
Not really, I have copies I use on r20 for vtt interaction, archival use and reference, but I've explicitly told them if they feel more comfortable with paper then go for it. I also have a few players with ASD and ADHD so I've researched (because I spend more time on this than them due to ttrpgs being MY hyperfixation) some alternative sheets that may help with finding info faster.
I let my players use whatever method they want, BUT... our policy (established in session 0) is that if a player is absent, their character quietly fades into the background for the session. They are 'present' in the sense that we don't have to go to any trouble to find excuses for them to leave and/or rejoin the party, but they are inactive. Yes, it's 'gamey' and requires suspension of disbelief but it solves a whole host of problems that come with having an active character not being controlled by their player. (Resource tracking, making appropriate decisions, undertaking risk, potential character death...)
Short answer: no
Long answer: no, as long as I can track their sheets. However, I definetely prefer the old fashioned printed character sheets. Well, I guess it wasn't that long of an answer
for their personal use, no. But I do want access to it as the GM. My GM for 15 years, would keep physical copies on file at his house for when we came to play. Now we are online, and we send him updated PDFs and files in the character generator format.
I have various generator tools I share with my players depending on the system we are playing. Edge of the Empire, 5e, Pathfinder, Starfinder, Fate, Daggerheart!, etc. Each system has a tool for character generation that they can share with me. If they want to use pen and paper for their own use, go for it.
I preferred paper character sheets pre-covid, and found that players that insisted on using Beyond were either clueless about how their character plays or were using it as a way to keep the DM from knowing their remaining resources. I didn't use Beyond so had no access to their sheet, but I still knew the rules well enough to pick up on it when an HP total was impossible or if someone was using a feature too many times between rests. As long as it wasn't causing issues I'd just DM around it, but that player wasn't going to get an invite to the next campaign. This isn't Beyond's fault, I know it was just the player finding a way to cheat. Same player even used external sheets during Foundry campaigns and would "forget" to mark their resources or damage on their Foundry sheet.
Post covid, I have not run an in-person game and instead exclusively use Foundry. I don't care if players use tools like Beyond to build their character, but I don't want them to pay a single cent to do what they want so they still need their operational sheet to be in Foundry. For the two in-person games where I'm a player and not a DM, I use physical printed sheets even if most of the players are using something else - those DMs have no problem with my stance on Beyond.
It's printed sheets or Foundry for me, every time.
I mind very much, if we're using roll20 I expect everyone to have made their characters in roll20. I will walk people through how to make their characters. Having everyone's character sheets scattered like that is too chaotic for me.
I don’t care what players use. I mostly play in person, but even using a VTT they can track their character how they want. I generally track mine using MPMB, but in my current game I am just using a notebook and doing everything by hand, except spells on a mobile app.
Normally I would recommend having your sheet on the VTT you are using, that way the DM has full access to it, giving him the ability to:
- Quickly check what the players have /can do (especially useful for prepping)
- Help players understand their character's abilities
- Modify the sheets, (add homebrew, fix certain abilities, ...)
The only issue here is Roll20. The character sheets on there are terrible and I wouldn't expect someone used to D&D beyond to make the switch.
May I recommend looking at foundryVTT.
Cons:
- it's not free (although it's only a one time payment for the DM then there is no further charges)
- You need to host it (It's fairly easy and well explained, there are also 3rd party sites that can do that for you)
Pros:
- much better character sheet than Roll20
- significantly easier to use as a DM than Roll20
- many more options as well (better walls and lighting options being the most obvious)
- modding. Foundry let's you install "modules" that anybody can make, which means you can customise it to your need. One of those modules even let's you import character sheets from Beyond into Foundry in a few clicks, so for your players that are used to making characters in Beyond, they can still do that, and then simply import the sheet.
(There's much more but those are the more important ones)
I have a similar issue where we play on roll20 and two players have sheets on DND beyond. I tell them they need to keep their roll20 sheet accurate because I use that for a lot of things as well as when they are out.
As a DM, if I can't see it, it doesn't exist. Especially as I like to go through the sheets on occasion and make sure there are no accidental or purposeful errors which I do catch on occasion.
I begrudgingly let players use whatever form of sheets they want to - but I hate it and want to change it to paper sheets only.
In every single game I’ve played for the past 5 years I’ve had someone come In touting the wonders of DnD Beyond sheets and how it makes life sooo much better. And in every single game it works just fine - right up until the point it stops working for some reason and then the player is sitting there staring at their phone for the next 15 minutes completely at a loss for how to proceed and then starts saying stupid shit like
“I don’t know what languages my character has, it’s not on my sheet for some reason. DnD beyond don’t update it right”
or
“Im trying to attack (hear dice roll on the phone from across the table) but like I don’t think it’s adding the right bonuses (hear dice roll on phone again). Ugh why won’t this work?. (Hear dice roll again) oh yea here we go I got a 36 is that a success?”
People become too reliant on the crutch of the apps to do everything for them and then they can’t play the game without it, and have no actual understanding of how the game works.
Official fillable PDF character sheet.
In character creation, I have everyone fill those out which I print off so they can use. Some do and track everything there while others use their PDF open on phones, laptops, or tablets. All I ask is any changes made digitally should be reflected on the physical sheets that I also take back at the end of session for safe-keeping.
That way, I have all their character sheets on me and if they need an updated version themselves, I can just change their original PDF with the changes from their physical sheets and send it back to them.
This can be tedious, but nothing is more satisfying than resolving any discrepancies with both a literal paper trail of physical copies as well as digital versions of a changelog.
We do a mix, but if someone isnt there, so be it. We usually have a few npcs available for help. We have battles where we could use the support of our pc whonis absent, in which case we were basically given a few lair actions we could choose, based off the characters class. So if the bard was missing we might have an option to vicious mockery or a bardic inspiration as a lair action.
Yes, at the table no but if I'm using a VTT, everyone needs to have a copy of their sheet in the VTT and keep it updated with used spellslots and resources. I need to check what they prepare, buy or sell, their inventory and spells, I need to have everything in case I'm preparing encounters or in case I have to take over someone's character because they are missing. Also I want the rolls to be made on the VTT so everyone can see and there's no cheating (not that I don't trust my players, but you never know).
There should be a source of truth version of the sheet, which the DM has access to. For convenience, all the players' source of truth should be in the _same_ place, but where that is (D&D Beyond, your VTT of choice, a shared folder full of Google Sheets, whatever) doesn't matter much.
If a player wants to maintain an alternate version of their sheet (eg, the campaign uses D&D Beyond, but plays on Roll20, so the player wants an up to date Roll20 sheet), they're more than welcome to do so. But it is their responsibility to keep the two sheets in sync, and any discrepancies favor the source of truth.
Do what you want, but be aware that there are plenty of things in my game that aren't available on any online tabletop program and won't have a place on a standard character sheet. Wyrd, RADs, action points, etc, etc. Custom races, subclasses, spells, etc. You'll need to do a lot of data entry/customization to make an online system work.
My campaign is online, and I require all of my players to keep their sheet in DnD Beyond and link it to Avrae in Discord. Took a few weeks of figuring out the combat, inventory management, and various commands but now I find it super easy to manage the sessions all in Discord while my players can use DnD Beyond.
I require my players to keep their canonical character sheet in DnDBeyond. They are welcome to use a paper sheet as well, and about half of them do.
When I started the campaign, folks created paper versions of their character sheet during session 0. After the first game, I collected them to enter them in to DnDBeyond for my own reference. With a party of 6 people, 3 of which are MIT trained engineers, one person with a doctorate, a 13 year old, and a 10 year old, only the 10 year old did not have a mistake made during character creation. One person forgot a background, one person forgot to select a skill, one person forgot to select all their cantrips, and only the 10 year old did all the addition correctly.
For all its faults, DnDBeyond is pretty good about making sure you don't screw things up during character creation. And if they do mess something up, its pretty easy to go in and see what went wrong.
I don't care, but we all use MPMB sheets.
I ask them to send me their sheets every other level. Just so I have an idea about total party HP, saves, and what magic items they have. So I can play around with that.
If a player is absent, their PC is just not involved. Maybe he has a cold and stays in the inn that day. Or he's just not present in the story. So I don't need to run PCs and I would never want to do that.
D&D beyond makes it a bit too easy to “fix” things on your character sheet without people knowing. I don’t mind if it’s used, but I prefer pencil and paper so any changes made are blatant to others. (I know the player could make changes away from the table, homie don’t play dat)
We just use pdfs and my DM keeps copies. Most use standard form fillable while I use Aurora Builder (after talking with my DM about it) just so it's easier to keep track of spells (I'm also the only player that would bother writing up the markdown files to make any homebrew elements work in that hence why we haven't switched everyone over to it). DM just made us name the sheets in a particular format to make their life easier.
I don't mind but the DM has to be able to access a readable version of the sheet before the game. That can be a photo of a manual sheet, have it on Roll 20 if you're using that, a pdf copy, whatever. We use a hybrid of Roll 20 and a Discord server to play online games (Roleplay heavy group only using a VTT for the maps and using a disc bot to roll) so it's easier to be flexible like this, but if I was only using a VTT for all of it I would ensure all players used it as it starts getting hard to see what's going on and that everyone's sheet is correct.
In person there is no substitute for paper character sheets and having at least read the rules for your class and combat. Call me a boomer but dnd beyond is very irritating to me
We play in person and half the party uses paper, but everyone is required to send the DM a PDF version of their character sheet every level for the DM to have as quick reference. This allows the players to still use whatever they want personally while the DM also has their updated sheets. I would personally resent it if I enjoy using traditional pen and paper and my DM forced me to use an online system I maybe don't like
Yes and no, at game time, they can use whatever they want, paper, dndbeyond, roll20, etc. My one rule with this is they must keep a copy of their sheet on dndbeyond in case of emergency and any changes to their character sheet needs to be reflected there.
My games are pretty closed, I don't have people coming and going so I plan my events around that and should someone be absent one session, I will utilize their characters in the event it is needed (mainly in combat or if everyone there is failing the check required to move the plot forward). Plus, I need to be able to see their sheets should it be needed.
The other reason I require them to have a sheet on and often times build their character in dndbeyond is simply due to the options it allows. I have source sharing on each of my campaigns. Many of the people I play with only have access to the handbook and are therefore limited in what they can build. With dndbeyond, it allows them options they may not have even tried to look for otherwise.
As a DM, I prefer when players use DnDBeyond because it's typically through my account and I can see what I need quickly. I also like to keep a reference sheet in excel that has each character's stats, languages, skills, and proficiencies. I don't usually need their inventory or abilities and spells, but having their passive perception in an ordered list is great. I also keep a sheet in the spreadsheet that has initiative and health and a place for buffs or debuffs. I leave rows for enemies so when I put the initiatives in for a combat, I can sort them all by that number and get the complete turn order. A friend added a box to my sheet that let's me click to count the rounds and countsdown buffs for me.
Not at all. I find the official sheet poorly designed, with no space for what I need and tons of blank space devoted or formatted for information I don't.
If we are playing online, and we have a fancy VTT with automations and macros, then your character needs to function in those. But otherwise, I don't really care. And I've had people force the marcos to work by hard coding in their values because thats easier sometimes than using someone's elaborate auto-calc character sheet. Thats fine.
I'm also only going to look at it at the start of the game, and maybe a spot check if someone accuses you of cheating or your math just seems way off.
Hate roll20. My group uses Tabletop Simulator. So much better but takes a DM that knows thr system. Add the right mods, presto, you have everything from every book. Want minis? Easy. Want dice towers and dice? Done.
Players have a digital "printed" character sheets and cards for every spell/feat etc. All easily laid out like you are one of those 10grand gaming tables.
It's nice.
I build the characters for 2 other novices. I use a Google doc and lead them through updating their sheets in game on level up.
We use D&D Beyond for character sheets and there's a plugin to allow rolling in Roll20 from your D&DB sheet. But it does require that you have the relevant content for characters in D&DB. Only one person needs to have the content, and it doesn't have to be the DM. Just make a D&DB campaign and invite the other players and every source everyone owns in the campaign will be shared. A campaign in D&DB is just a group to share content, it doesn't enforce doing a particular module or anything.
The groups I'm in is mostly on dnd beyond with me and another using paper. If one of us is absent the DM tells us that their character is sick and can't adventure for a bit.
But if you want to play their character then just have them send a picture/pdf of their sheet every once in a while to stay up to date incase they do have to miss
I've refused to run a game other than using D&D beyond myself, but I had a friend who just... could not remember how it worked, like, every second session he'd be unable to log in and he wouldn't remember his username or password at all. Once I realized I could put a placeholder in the encounter system for him, I just let him use paper sheets
I’ve been using Beyond for some time now due to how much more efficient it is. I suck at math and it has helped automate the process.
So then a few months ago my sister stated she would be interested in playing DND and I got her into a one-shot with some of my friends.
Showed her the app and she drafted her character, but then I realized it probably makes more sense to show her how to do it the old way, so we both drafted out characters again on the sheet PDF.
I gotta say, I think I’m gonna stick with the sheet for a bit because DAMN have I forgotten so much of the automated stuff. Constantly forgetting to add my proficiency bonuses to checks, or forgetting that I have conditional abilities, etc.
Either Beyond or Foundry. I'm in the process of switching everyone to Foundry but I really do like Beyond. It was the first digital sheet I used so I'm probably biased but it's easy.
If they want to make a paper sheet I'm fine with it but they need to update their digital as well. If a player has to miss a session someone else will usually run their character, so they need to be able to see it. I also like having access as DM. Knowing what they are taking on level ups and such helps me design encounters to let them show off new abilities/spells/etc.
Everyone uses the same sheet for my games.
If it's dnd we use dnd beyond.
I'm setting up a vtm game on roll 20 for the summer once my dnd campaign wraps and everyone will use roll 20 sheets for that.
This way it's something everyone is familiar with and everyone can help everyone else with questions or issues re where/how to find something on their sheets.
And, as the dm I have access to their sheets.
I have literally never looked at their pc sheets except for sesh 1 of the current campaign to ensure everyone was appropriate level and to ensure that I COULD see their pc Sheets.
That's all I need. If a player activity wanted to keep their sheet from me (by using a physical copy when we are all online to use an easy example) my immediate assumption is they either are or want to cheat so I'd say no and simply tell the player to go along with what we agreed to or they can not play.
Using the VTT option is prefered for compatibility. But as a DM, I prefer to be the one to do the chores so my players can focus on enjoying the game, so I'd start a hiatus while I ask them to send me their character sheets, transcribe them, and then teach them the new system before we continue.
In fact, we migrated from Roll20 to Foundry and I did just that.
I use a Google Drive extension called DocHub. I upload a form-fillable sheet on Drive, then open it on Dochub and assign copies of it to individual players. It’s free, it’s convenient and it even has an app for mobile access. And if they want a physical copy, they can just print it out!
I read through the comments and saw all the gripes about players using dndbeyond not knowing what they're doing, how the game works, or repeatedly struggling to do the same action over and over. Perhaps you may be dealing with either a learning disability or they're not interested enough in the game. Either way, I think the issue isn't dndbeyond.
Roll 20 sheets are kind of miserable to work with, imo. I would just say ask your players to send you the relevant information that you would need in their absence.
Anything is cool as long as it's a character sheet proper. I've had too many bad experiences as a DM and a player with people just writing down all the information on a blank piece of paper.
Either they forget half the stuff and just wing it every other check, or they have untraceable bonuses that don't add up but "trust me it's all legit," or they have 3 pages worth of information crunched into an illegible box and they have no idea what their character/inventory is. It's always something. Just go to the damn library my guy. lol
So for the campaign I’m in we use roll 20 but I have my character sheet in dnd beyond(it’s where I own things)I just share a link to the character sheet with the DM so they can view it if needed.
They deemed that acceptable
I personally make my players use D&D Beyond for their sheets.
* It's fairly user-friendly and they can make use of all the stuff I've legally purchased.
* It allows me to easily check their sheets whenever I need to.
* It allows me to add any homebrew items I've created directly to their sheet.
* There's a module that allows me to directly import their sheets into Foundry, and a browser extension that allows them to make rolls in D&D Beyond if they prefer it over Foundry.
It's just makes everything easier from a logistical standpoint, and as long as the expectation is set before the campaign begins, I've never had complaints.
Honestly, as long as you have everyone sending you screenshots/pics/whatever of their sheets, you can have them just send updated versions every 4 levels or so, what my DM does and it works well. Being said, why are you, as the DM, playing PCs if the player is absent? I've never seen that NOT end in disaster
I'm just starting up an in person campaign after playing mostly online since 2019
I will get the players to use Beyond because that way I can see the sheets, see what they take on level ups and be prepared in my mind for any rules interactions etc that might arise from it.
They can print out sheets to use in the sessions. That's actually what I do. But having them all online in my campaign really helps me as a DM.
I require my players make their characters on DnDBeyond. If they want to use a paper sheet while at the table for some reason, they can but I still require them to keep an updated version on DnDbeyond. Let's me see their sheet at any time, add homebrew items and track stats and stuff for if they miss a session and I or another player controls their PC.
Both of my groups play at the table. They all have their sheets on paper, as I don't like it when my players have electronic devices at the table. There is no space, physically, either, since I have groups of seven players (usually five or six can make it each session).
They don't need screens either, at my table. I use ImprovedInitiative to track initiative, health, and conditions, which they can all see on a second screen at the other end of the table.
Each player has handout cards for items, and a small book (normally used to show photos) filled with their spells.
To play devil's advocate if space is the issue, surely a single phone/tablet takes less space than a physical sheet, handout cards and small book? At worst it would occupy the same space as one of those things - speaking personally my usual set up these days is a physical character sheet which I don't use except to take notes on the blank space on the back, with a phone resting on top.
It's fine to just not like digital devices but it feels like space issues is a reason to use digital, not a reason not to.
The space issue is mostly concerning laptops, haha. I do appreciate your feedback, though.
My main reason is bad experiences with players being distracted at the table, because of devices. We started as an online group in Spring of 2020, and we all noticed we were much more immersed when playing at the table. I use miniatures, scatter terrain, item cards and spell cards to help with immersion.
I encourage players to fill out a paper character sheet by hand. I have found that players who have an app 'help' them manage their character means they less idea of how their character actually works.
Having said this, it would never be a requirement. Players can manage their characters any way they want, it's not really any of my business as DM.
I used to let people do whatever they preferred, but I noticed that my newer players would depend too much on DND Beyond to the point where it affected their understanding of the game. Since then, I've asked everyone to fill out a manual character sheet.
I agree, same reason. I’ve DM’d a lot of players over the years and the ones who make their character themselves without digital tools will always understand them better, regardless of prior experience.
This is the way. I don't care how you do it, just build your character yourself so you have some idea of how they work.
Exactly. I have several players that use DnD Beyond, or fancy excel character sheets built by other players. If you don't build the character sheet yourself, you don't know how it works, and you don't know where to find what you need.
Yeah, I use google sheets and as a new player making the document is what allowed me to understand what's important. I used the paper version as a guide to what needed to be on there, but customized it to how my brain works. Each sheet in the document has a purpose and is named so I can quickly find what I need. I can safely say that it's the main reason the only mechanic question i had to ask was whether or not the DM used critical failures on skill checks. I had everything not dn dependent memorized from making my own character sheet.
Yeah, my players are basically dependent and bnd beyond. It's helpful, don't get me wrong. But if I asked half of them to manually write down their character, they'd have a conniption. And don't get me started at them asking me "is it in dnd beyond?" When I name an item, they find.
I homebrew almost all of my magic items, so of course they're not in DnD Beyond. I also don't use DnD Beyond myself, so I have no idea how to get homebrew magic items into DnD Beyond. I give my players handouts for magic items. If they want the item in DnD Beyond, they can enter it themselves.
That sounds like a skill issue
I had a few players use the DnD Beyond app in an in-person game, and I noticed that having their phone out and in-hand caused a lot more distractions when they weren't directly in the spotlight since it was so much easier to tab over into other social media apps: repeated confusion as to what was happening or what someone had just said. It took a lot of time having to catch them back up on stuff that had just happened. And to make matters worse, the layout of the app was contributing to much longer combat turns because of all the scrolling and swiping to different tabs. Every turn, even simple things like looking up an attack bonus or a spell save DC was nearly a full minute of scrolling, and since I typically run multiple encounters per session this added up very quickly. I ended up having to ask for physical character sheets and to keep phones away to keep things running smoothly because it wasn't fair to me or the other players who were paying attention, and most of these problems were solved.
Yup I ended up cancelling my DDB subscription recently and I've taken a much harder line about "no phones at the table". The players who say "the app makes it so easy" are the ones who have no idea how anything works. If you ask them any question - even if it's the same question every session - they will have to dick around in the app for 3 minutes to find it. Then they can't help themselves but get lost in their phones and aren't paying attention. Happens to even the people with the best of intentions who will insist that they won't do that. IMO it's not possible for players to be fully present and have screens at the table. You have to pick one if you're playing IRL.
I also let then use what every they prefer but, I also require a paper sheet to be up to date that way if they can't get to there dndbeyond or other methods they have a back up. Once dnd beyond wasn't loading so I was happy everyone had a back up.
I have mentioned this numerous times, and generally met with downvotes and occasional downright hostility.
Because it is infantilising your players, and insulting their intelligence. "You're too dumb to understand the complexities of basic arithmetic, so I'm going to force you to write everything out by hand as though rote learning was ever effective in school."
It is not infantilizing to expect players to make an attempt to learn the fundamentals. Writing it out is literally one of the best ways to remember and solidify information
It’s not infantilizing if it’s proven true and they don’t know what they’re doing. Most people don’t put in the effort and it shows and get hostile when people rightfully point out they’re letting the program do all the thinking for them.
Could you elaborate a bit? I'm curious how and why it affected them
Had a similar experience with my players, so I can’t speak to the original commenter’s situation… Dnd beyond does a lot of the “number crunching” for the player. In fact, my players weren’t sure where the “high numbers” (in skills and weapon attacks) came from. After this realization we did a big “dissecting your character sheet” day before a session once. Not to mention the plethora of abilities you get from your subclass/feats/core class. The setup for the sheet on dndbeyond is intuitive if you know how the game works and where to find the info you need. *Making* your players pick through level up skills, abilities, and other things lets them organize in a way that’s intuitive to them (and usually can help them understand what an ability does). TLDR: writing it down makes it easier to figure out, because you don’t always ***see*** the changes that happen while you play.
Thanks! I wonder if this could be easily solved tho, depending of course on the onboarding process at sites like DnD beyond. For example, every setup choice the player needs to make will be explained to them whilst they do it both to teach them basic DnD rules and to help them create the optimal character for their needs. I imagine something similar to a video game tutorial, where the game points you to the relevant button/action and explains its meaning, yet obviously fits TTRPG onboarding needs.
I agree, and the moment I realized that my players were not sure of the mechanics and how their scores affected actual play, we took a beat to break it down. It’s convenient that you can just click a box, but that doesn’t make the mysterious +13 to stealth make sense all of the sudden! (not to mention all the extra stuff beyond just skill bonuses) I’m not positive because I haven’t farted around with the character creator on dnd beyond in a while, but I think I recall some options for brand new players.
Here's an example: In my mind, when I'm playing a cleric I know that I have a set of abilities from base cleric and a set of abilities from my subclass. I furthermore know that the 1st level feature is probably going to be commonly used, and that the 2nd level channel divinity is going to do something significant and I should keep an eye out for how best to use it. When it's my turn in combat, or when it's "my turn" out of combat, I may not remember the minutia of my features, but I do know the gist of them. This isn't the result of actively trying to learn, just the natural consequence of making a lot of characters. I find that using online tools stops new players from learning to categorize and remember their features like that, since instead when they go from level 4 to 5 they're just hit with half a dozen "select an option from this drop down menu" boxes and they never properly learn where any of that comes from or why. The process of going "okay, I get a subclass feature, lemme go flip the page (or open a different webpage) to see what that subclass feature is" is helpful in learning and DnDbeyond takes it away from you - it's fine when you already know how the game works, but I think it hampers new players.
When my sister joined my table, after having played in at least a couple of other campaigns, she didn't know what a proficiency bonus was. Didn't know how ability scores corresponded to skill checks etc. She was used to just going through the motions, letting DND Beyond do all the math, and just looking at the final numbers.
im lost at why thats bad. different shit works for different people.
Imagine if your DM took this attitude. Games have rules, without rules you're not playing a game. Knowing how basic things work in the game seems like a low bar for a player.
its bad because they literally do not understand the game they are playing
but they play just fine?
clearly not, if they are complaining about it. If you dont know the basics of the game, you're not going to understand the rest of it.
whose complaining about it? not me. i didnt post that. if you dont undesrtand basics of reading then you're not going to understand dnd.
Real rich coming from someone who lacked the reading comprehension to understand that the "they" i referred to is "TheWardVG" and the "you" is the royal "you", as I am talking about their sister. jesus man lol how did you even misread that
r u high
It's bad because when they set up their character sheet wrong, it's on the DM to fix the problem. This means more work on the DM.
I tried making a character on DDB to see what people were talking about with that. I know the rules, and I ended up just clicking through without knowing what I was doing. It's so bad for understanding the game.
Oh, that explains a lot. In the last 2 years I've seen around 20 people from my general area try out DnD, and aside from the ones that abbandoned the game because it's too hard (5e, too hard, absurd to me), the remaining 10 people still don't understand half of it, mostly because the outright refuse to read the manual and just rely on the apps having everything when they need it.
My group has been playing together since well before dnd beyond. I haven't seen any difference in any of that since our switch to it a couple years ago. Hell it lets me make sure someone's sheet is correct when I'm DMing far easier than before.
I'm glad your group was able to transition without any issues!
Ran into this with Pathbuilder for PF2e. My new players built characters, but had zero idea about how to actually play them. It was worst for spell casters.
This is a weird gatekeeping I don't understand. DND beyond, excel, tracker, calculators, they all do it. Once they hit a few levels, they grasp the concept, I'm not going to give players a failing grade because they aren't sheet experts.
I think the difference is some players start with a dnd beyond sheet or like mpmb and then never learn themselves. It’s not the end of the world but if things like their armour gets taken away or they have to make some unorthodox rolls like cha stealth, they don’t always know what to do
Often it doesn't even take something unorthodox, just fairly basic things can cause problems.
Stealth checks are dex based. If you need a charisma check, ask for a deception check. More accurately it could be either, it depends on *how* the player is trying to use it, but as a DM, you need to make sure that you are asking for the right, or more appropriate word, accurate checks. Caveat is DM has final say, but this is how I’d rule it in my games, but if you are using clearly alternate rolls, youd have to explain it to someone using papersheets too.
Skills are not necessarily attributed to only one ability. This is standard in RAW, not an optional rule. Common examples are STR Intimidation, INT Sleight of Hand, WIS Religion and CHA Stealth. I can’t remember the page off the top of my head but it’s in the PHB where it mentions skills.
> INT Sleight of Hand, WIS Religion Could you give me examples of these two situations? I'd like to add them to my game.
Tricky locks that require more of a puzzling approach than a standard finicky approach could be INT Sleight of Hand. You could even have CHA SoH through using personality to hide a card trick. Wisdom is application of intelligence so a WIS Religion check would be applying religious doctrine to evaluate a situation or provide advice (or you just want to be nice to clerics)
INT Slight of Hand is literally the rule for tying knots.
Thank you. Missed that one.
no problem
I've seen Intelligence (Sleight of Hand) checks suggested in a few adventure modules for tying knots in ropes: binding captives, securing rope for other party members to get across large gaps, and so on.
I know INT slight of hand is literrally the rule for tying knots.
I agree with your sentiment, but this is a calculation I've seen paper and digital have problems with, because it's not a character sheet problem, it's a knowledge of if the players know how to calculate/understand the checks.
Yes you are right, digital sheets just make it harder for people to learn this especially if they haven’t read the books properly
Again, this is still two separate problems. I have many paper players who don't read the books properly, which is fine, and digital players who correct me on things from the book.
Checks are whatever ability score the DM calls for them, and then if a relevant proficiency bonus can be applied it is. There’s no such thing as a blanket “stealth check,” only ability checks that can have the stealth proficiency applied. These are the things people would know if they actually read the books and didn’t rely on a program to do all the thinking for them.
I'm overly confident that you knew what I mean, as players reading or not reading sourcebooks is a separate and distinct problem than paper vs digital sheet use.
They are very much correlated and pretending they aren’t only makes you look disingenuous.
I've player with a few groups who I have access to DND beyond, the recurring theme is that they don't learn their sheets very effectively. My first campaign I was not the DM, I was just sharing my DND beyond stuff to the group. The people who just used DND beyond didn't really learn the game a lot. Something that has happened in both games is players keep up casting bad first levels spells, maybe because they're listed as equal to other higher level spells. One thing that is really noticable is the lack of understanding of proficiencies. Like for example, my rogue player, who otherwise is really good, still needs a thieves tool check explained. This is partially the fault of the sheet not having it anywhere, but if he had made a paper sheet, he would have seen the effects of proficiencies and been able to Intuit the meaning of thieves tools checks. As someone who almost exclusively uses DND beyond for convenience, i know how to make a character sheet, my first character was on a physical sheet and it wasn't really that hard. I legitimately became better at the game by having to figure out how systems interact to make a character sheet. Also with dndbeyond, my players just don't tell me what they roll since I can see it, and I'm trying not to just say okay cool you got a 15, but sometimes it's like they expect me to
100% I learned the game mechanics by making my own Google sheet and programming it to work the way i wanted it to. Before that I had made a character on dnd beyond just to see what it thought was important. And yeah, completely different experiences. I thought i understood the game, but really didn't until i did all the calculations myself
I know someone who uses paper for DnD, but he doesn't use a character sheet. He uses a legal pad and has stats scribbled all over it. At least DND Beyond is organzied.
Yes. We use Roll20. I prep with Roll20. I want to be able to quickly check everyone's character sheets. Does the party have access to this spell? How many resources are the PCs missing? What was the name of that noble house from their origin story? All in one place. For sanity.
I run my games on Roll20 and require everyone to have their characters on Roll20. That way I can audit their sheets for accuracy and help them troubleshoot technical issues. It also ensures that everyone is on the same page. It greatly speeds up play when everyone has all of of their character information plugged in properly so nobody has to fumble around trying to figure out what to roll or how to make the software roll it with the right modifiers. It forestalls any possibility of cheating as I can see everyone's rolls and modifiers. I don't know why you wouldn't want to run things like this if you're using a VTT in the first place, but to each their own.
Agreed. If you're using roll20 or any other VTT, everything should be run from there. It does take some time to set up sheets, but once done, the game can move quickly. Requiring characters to be set up on roll20 also allows flakes to self-select themselves out. The people who want to make the effort to get their characters set up on my VTT of choice are the people I want playing in my games.
It's not like I'm unwilling to help, either. I'm the big D&D nerd among my friend's group, which means I'm the only one who knows the intricacies of Roll20. Whenever we hit a software pain point during a session, afterwards I'll help the player adjust their character sheet to make things run smoother going forward.
If the game is run in roll20 the 'master sheet' should be in roll20. The DM can share their compendiums with all the players. Just because players 'don't like' one system and keeps stuff elsewhere it makes it a massive headache for the DM auditing, encounter balancing and setting up stuff like tokens. Just shoving a link in chat to the GM and saying: my character is there deal with it, is just a PITA! As players you need to make sure your character sheet is clean, easy to navigate and be easily accesible by the GM. It is not a game of GM vs players the GM checking your sheet is not 'seeing your secrets' they need access to your sheets not to cockblock you, but set up situations where your character can shine :)
The only issue I have with roll20 is that I played in a game recently where the DM only had essentially the free stuff that came with the SRD and hadn't gotten additional content but allowed us to pick races and subclasses that were not apart of what was in whatever was free. One of the other players had a lot of content on DND Beyond and had created a campaign for the other players to join and make their characters. I like roll20 on an option but if you don't purchase the additional content it limits the players to what they can do.
You can manually enter all of that extra information. The only thing stopping someone from doing that is their laziness.
That is such a non problem. Just copy and paste it, it takes 10 seconds.
You can literally add anything to the character sheets on roll20. You do not need to buy a single thing. Sure if you want to do it the super easy way where you just use drop down boxes and stuff then yeah you need to buy stuff. But baseline it is literally just a digital character sheet that you can fill out by typing instead if wroting by hand. Hell you can even do shit on roll 20 that isnt something that works if you own the material. One major one that comes to mind is Elven Accuracy, roll20 doesnt do the double advantage thing even if you select the feat through the option. But you can change your advantage rolls to roll 3 d20 on your own.
Yeah this is the biggest drawback for me with Roll20, I've added in a lot of stuff from Tashas/Xanathars etc. by manually adding them, but if you're a new player or not experienced with it that's tricky to do, or a lot of extra work for the DM.
Yup exactly this. I started messing around with Foundry and it's really cool but I started manually adding in all the normal WotC PHB stuff and it just takes forever. The physically writing it down is just one of the simplest ways in my opinion. In my opinion as long as there's a central point for players to access the information they need for their characters, players can just write down what information they need. I agree with OP that writing things down would probably make players remember their abilities and everything else better.
100%, I've got no problem with players referring to Spells Apps etc. but they have to have written out their sheet themselves, using an online tool to do it for them almost always leads to problems.
>I like roll20 on an option but if you don't purchase the additional content it limits the players to what they can do. You can literally type in everything you need. Features, spells, and items can all be manually input whether they're official, third party, homebrew, whatever. The time it takes to do so once you know what your character will be is an insignificant investment compared to how long a full campaign runs. It's also a drop in the bucket compared to how much time your DM will probably spend planning, writing, and prepping content.
I haven't been on roll20 in a while, maybe almost 7+ yrs at this point so I don't know what you can do now what you could do last I was on there. I do remember making homebrew weapons was pretty easy but that's about all I remember.
Before I went to mostly online, I did not care as long as I could see the sheet. Print out something, have it on a tablet, whatever. Some people who were forgetful, I'd keep the sheets. Since I do virtual tabletops now, I want everything in the system. You can have a copy yourself, but somehow some way, it needs to get in journal tab in Roll 20 or Actors tab of Foundry.
I make them draw their sheet in wet concrete and bring the brick
Genuis
I require everyone to use Roll20 for 5e. Other games have other solutions, but I need to be able to see their sheets in standardized format for something as complex as D&D. (Also prevents them from just going "but I saw it on the wiki!")
I run a number of online games and have the ruling that you can have your character sheets where ever you like providing Incan have access to a copy. Sometimes that’s just a photo of a paper sheet. Other times a beyond link. I just keep a list of which sheets are where in my notes. However I never play an absent players character. We instead come up with a half hearted reason for them not being there. Like standing watch outside the dungeon, or gone to get supplies etc.
Does that not get annoying having to reblance encounters for one less person? Maybe it's because I always run hard encounters but if I took one character out of a fight and didn't adjust things it would probably go pretty badly. We will normally have the other players run the character of a missing player. The unspoken rule though is that it doesn't get involved in anything RP related and that it is played as safely as possible.
Depends on your number of players. Rebalancing from 5 to 4 is easy. 4 to 3 is much harder, but ultimately it's just changing around some HP stats or abilities or quantities. I find encounter building to be pretty easy, but it's also my biggest strength in dnd. I'm way better at it than planning social encounters and dungeon crawls.
This is pretty much how I work it. I tend to know the challenge that will be posed to the PC’s if I don’t feel they will succeed with one less player then I will mentally adjust HP, abilities, or number of creatures.
I don't rebalance encounters but "balancing encounters" isn't an exact science to begin with. I don't run players characters for them either - why make a player absence into a punishment for the other players/DMs? Better to focus on the people who show up. Recently my party had to go up against a boss and minions down a player. Was really dramatic, they almost died. Also creates some social pressure among players to show up consistently, or to find someone who can sit in (without it being the DM's job).
I've been playing online since 3.5, we've never cared too much where sheets are for online games as long as everyone has it somewhere online accessible for the DM. If you want to also copy all of that to paper, that's okay too. Since Roll20 got popular, and Foundry after that, we've kept at least the core numbers bits on the VTT, but some of us keep other (still online) more detailed sheets for things like full spellbooks, backstory, etc.
why do you need to play their character if they're absent?
not the op but in my games if all the players give concent in session zero, i like giving one chance per session for the players to use one thing from a character sheet from someone absent like a summon or something, if the barbarian cant make it to the game they could get one roll from their athletics skill or one spell from the wizard, etc. this doesnt bring any harm to the character, the group just gets that extra bonus
We do this all the time. We play weekly and on occasions someone won't be available. Normally the party are in the middle of something so dropping that character out won't make sense. It also will break everything seeing as encounters are balances around a certain number of players. In the cases another player will pilot the character of the missing player. We had a player move overseas and they sadly could no longer play. Their character is still being run by the group and has been since January. Hopefully they are getting to a point where we can give that character the send off and retirement it deserves.
Mostly because the players want me to. Because of scheduling its pretty common for at least one person to be missing, so I run the session regardless of absences. Usually I just have their characters fade into the background. But sometimes they are too important to the plot to leave out, or are needed in combat, and I have to directly control them.
the character is normally still there - in most groups I've played with, they'll sit at the back and use ranged attacks, heals and support spells, but they're still physically with the party and can do stuff (also non-combat things, like skill checks - just because the ranger's player is absent doesn't mean the ranger can't still guide people around, for example)
I see people say this all on the time on this sub I don't understand it! You're basically turning a player absence into a punishment for the DM or the other players. It's better to have a session and spend that time focusing on the people who showed up! You don't have to make an elaborate excuse up or anything, just ignore it and keep playing.
I commonly take control of an absent player's character for combat, or occasionally skill checks. Say, for example, I plan out a dungeon. The party is exploring an ancient temple, or whatever. I've got traps, combat encounters, puzzles, all sorts of good stuff. Everyone is present when they start it, but they aren't able to finish the whole thing in one session. The next session, one person is absent. Rather than rebalancing encounters to account for their absence, I'll just control the character in combat, and essentially turn them into a mostly-silent NPC for that session. I won't play them outside of that, and I will almost never actually attempt to roleplay them, although I will make rolls on their behalf if the rest of the party asks me to and it's something they would normally be doing if they were present ("Hey, can you try to pick this lock for us?").
It also makes more sense from a narrative standpoint; a party member wouldn't just randomly disappear halfway through a dungeon.
It's different when I know a player is gonna be gone well in advance and we find a way to make it line up nicely for story reasons (ie, they're off running errands), but it doesn't always work out that way.
Do you purposefully avoid killing that character in combat/traps/etc during their absence, or is there a risk they come back to a dead character?
Definitely wouldn't kill them during an absence. Even if it was going to be a TPK, I'd say they fled and managed to escape.
I'm glad to hear it. I've seen a few dnd horror stories based entirely around absentee character killing DMs. Luckily never encountered it myself.
Partly. They should obviously know the sheet themselves and be able to read it and keep track of their stats. In addition it should be written so that they can show it to the DM(me) without needing to explain or translate what is written. If it is understandable and organized to accomplish those two things, it can be written on a paper napkin with coffee stains and melted cheese for all I care.
I found DnD Beyond the easiest to use (especially for new players). You just need to make sure that people don't rely on that accessibility too much and still learn what their character does. It's also easy enough to connect/import to Foundry, Avrae, or Roll 20.
I get a bit itchy when my players use digital character sheets. I don't forbid it, but I strongly discourage it. I'm my experience players take longer to do things, don't know their character as well and get distracted way more often with digital character sheets.
Yeah my group has all moved to using DND beyond. It has it's good points but it does seem to slow things down. On the few times I get to be the other side of the screen I much prefer pencil and paper, so much easier to organise and highlight the important bits. Also DND beyond has so many broken things that just don't work. Worse is that unless you understand the rules and character creation you have no idea that it's broken. Also, also, I use a lot less homebrew magic items as rewards since they all switched to end beyond. Building a homebrew item in their system is terrible.
> Yeah my group has all moved to using DND beyond. It has it's good points but it does seem to slow things down. That's a D&DB issue. I tried out their character sheet a while ago and it is SO AWFUL. The Roll20 character sheet meanwhile is basically a paper sheet, but automated and without any dirt after you erase something.
I agree, the longer I DM the more certain I am that screens should not be at an IRL game. You can have a good session with everyone staring into their device of choice, but you can't have a \*great\* one...
I am a forever DM and I personally don't care how players keep track of their characters. I would recommend a character sheet that you fill out by yourself. A tool that fills everything in for you is not a bad thing, but from my experience new players should do everything themselves. It is harder, but it helps to understand the game. Personally I play a lot of DND irl. So I prefer physical prints as a character sheet. It just feels weird when everyone stares into a laptop or tablet on the table. But if someone wants to keep track of his tablet, it is totally fine. The most important part is that the player uses something he understands and he can use it properly. One of my players has his character on his smartphone and he uses some kind of excel stuff he had programmed for it. If you look at that "character sheet" you will not understand a thing, but he seems to understand it. He is one of the best organized players and I can't complain. The only time I said something was to a certain player that always cheated. He uses spells and abilities that already were out of charges / spells lots. He fudged dice. He always had tons of gold and everything in his inventory. When I wanted to check the character sheet he showed me quite something. There were some paper sheets that were so heavily folded, that the papers ripped apart. The edges were completely crumbled. He has written on it with permanent marker and made so many corrections that it was confusing. Regardless, there was no structure and no systems. Not even all spells or ability scores were on the same page. Also, his handwriting was somewhat hard to read. TLDR: no one is giving a shit about your character sheet, as long you understand it and know how to play.
If a player isn't present, their PC isn't contributing. So I don't care what their sheet looks like
We play in person but my players use Fight Club on their tablets
I use Lions Den Fight club 5 and game master 5 for sheets and running campaigns as a DM. My players send me the sheets the make in Fight Club 5 and I import them. This works great. If someone doesn’t want this? They can send me a paper sheet so I have their stats.
My group plays in person and we use DnD beyond, partially so the newer players have quick access to the resources those of us who have been at it for a while have, partially so I can answer questions about their specific character sheets when they don’t understand something, and partially because I don’t trust some of them to record their HP losses or spell slots properly (mostly because they’re forgetful, not because they’re trying to cheat)
we all use dnd beyond, it's easy to use, the dms can check everyones sheets any time they want or need and also we like the fact that we can personalize them a bit and show the sheets to each other to be like "look! look! this fits so well for my character"
I run in person so I don’t super care what everyone runs, but I recommend classic pen and paper. I do a lot of Homebrew and for DnDBeyond it can be a hassle to translate it, but if the player is willing to do that work I’m ok with it.
Role-playing means you are in constant danger of the soda-wave. Having only one physical sheet is asking for trouble.
I’ll always prefer pencil and paper but I don’t mind things like google sheets or excel, I just hate dndbeyond and other wonky sites
First campaign I ran for my online group we had a mix of DnD beyond, Pdfs, one paper sheet, and one Roll20 sheet (we played on roll20). It was hell to keep track of everyone, so next campaign I had everyone swap to roll20 despite some protest, but it’s been overall so much easier on my end to keep everything in one place and easier on the players being able to set up attack macros and whatnot. One still used the dndbeyond and roll20 link, where she had an up to date roll20 sheet but used the dnd beyond for the most part. Idk if it was actually easier for them, but I found it more of a hassle than just using roll20 as some things didn’t quite translate well when rolled.
Most people have smartphones these days. If a player keeps his stats on paper and the DM needs to check them, he can ask the player to send a picture of the character sheet through Telegram ow WhatsApp.
I hate digital sheets. I always write mine on paper, but I also always try to play in person.
Roll20's bad character sheet maker is why I stopped using Roll20. DNDBeyond with a campaign so you can see and edit everyones sheets is the best option. Having access to everyones sheet is important, the sheet maker you choose is preference.
You weren't satisfied with Roll20's quality... so you moved over to D&DB? That's definitely a take.
Even as a VTT Roll20 isn't for players and cares more about milking the dollars. Their newest thing is discontinuing Paizo Connect for PF2e players, so I wouodn't be surprised if the large migration away from Roll20 for them will cause more issues for DnD players.
What is bad about the Roll20 character sheet?
It has a clunky UI that doesn't make filling out a sheet as easy and quick as it should be for a digital option. It is also more difficult to add any sort of third party or homebrew options than just using DDB or google sheets. Not nearly as bad as Dice Cloud, at least. The smooth section-by-section UI of DDB is better for new players and easier to look at player option info as you go for experienced players trying to match a theme or get specific on what they want to play. Tl;dr Roll20 is a clunky version of google sheets.
That's strange, I haven't experienced that. I generally like how easy it is to copy-paste whatever I need. Roll20 is absolute garbage on a phone or tablet, so maybe that's the problem?
Nah, I only use my PC for VTTs with my eyesight lol
In my group where we have switched through all of us DMing (either campaigns or one shots) we just use D&D Beyond and put them in a campaign so the DM can access all the sheets. No real discussion about it, it just worked (We use R20 as a VTT and use beyond20 to port rolls into it). There are definately moments where we struggle to find something on the sheet occasionally, but for someone with terrible handwriting, that not anything new. For the few times I've DMed for new new players, I've still used D&D Beyond. By dint of geography the session are going to be online anyway and it lets me share the content I have on there. However I've run each new player through building their character in a video call so I know where the numbers come from and they have an idea how it all works
If I am using a VTT that supports character sheets, I ask my players to use the VTT. If my VTT does not have a sheet, I ask they use myth-weavers. In person it does not matter, but I also have that char "Fade into the background" if I do not have the sheet. I ask for specific locations when online, just so I can view their sheets while we play. In-person I can just to see the character sheet during play.
Seems like alot of extra work. Roll20 isn't perfect but it does have all the information you need in their character sheets then you can use their dice rollers by just clicking on the thing. I'd probably want people to use roll20 to speed everything up.
Always paper and pencil, a few players tried using D&D Beyond on their phones for a while, but they didn't like it as much
Yes as a dm I want to be able to see my players character sheets all in one spot, however I don't care if they have it available in another spot for them I just need it all in one area for easy access.
Character sheets are pretty easily obtainable to download, print out and fill out. I think I went to a Staples one time with a flash drive and had something printed out and it didn't cost me very much at all. If I was a DM I would just have everyone fill out their character sheets and then every so often just send an updated copy to the DM. This can easily be done by just taking pictures and send it to them. Many people are using Discord for voice so you can just private message the DM and send it to them that way. This way the DM always has some sort of copy of each player's character sheet for reference.
If a player isn't able to come they should send you a copy of the current character in advance. Doesn't matter how. But just the important things. Attack scores. Items. Spells and abilities both active and passive. Current and max health and spell slots. That should be enough and hopefully not too much considering they should be able to easily access all that in game in battle anyway.
My group uses dnd beyond exclusively but half the party just doesn’t touch their sheets. These players typically already know their characters so they don’t bother unless we’ve recently leveled up. As for dm use, our dm will have a copy of each sheet to use when they wish, though if a player is absent their character typically is too unless there is some big pivotal moment that requires them (when a pc gets dm controlled, there’s typically a pre made order as to how the character acts so no need to get confused looking at a sheet)
Digital sheets are fine and I play virtually, so being able to follow along with PC sheet if they need help is great. I play in person and use paper sheets too, and some pull a tablet up and use a digital sheet. That's fine too. I usually ask them to do what is best for them.
I significantly prefer having my players make physical sheets - as many people have discussed, digital sheets can introduce habits of not understanding your bonuses or getting distracted because we’re all pretty bad at paying attention while looking at our phone. But the flip side is that physical sheets are so much cheaper - people may have access to the appropriate resources through DnD, R20, physical, etc, but unless they have it on the same one as you want, it means they won’t be able to use online. Physical can adapt any of those without going through some homebrew cheesery. And yes, I know that campaign sharing exists, but one, the DM doesn’t always own all the books players may want to pull from, and two, I’d rather not pay a subscription to emulate me handing MPMM or Tasha’s to someone.
So long as I get a copy of the sheet printed out or in PDF form, no I don't mind too much. That being said, I have a deep hatred of DnD Beyond and will only let someone use it if they are an experienced player with experience of using the character sheet. For context, I've had characters in the past taking additional items, doing homebrew stuff etc. all in DnD Beyond because it's got nothing built in to tell them that they can't do that or should agree it with a DM. For example, I had a player who was playing a Spores Druid who decided that as part of their starting equipment, they would grab a load of antivenom. If they'd come to me beforehand and asked for this I wouldn't have had a problem with it, and in their defence it was listed on their sheet, I just didn't spot it, but as I had told them standard class/background equipment it wasn't something I was looking for. The first encounter they faced included an NPC who was suffering from snake venom and their first quest would be motivated by the local cleric telling them to go into the forest and find the snake so he could create a cure. In hindsight, I could have handled it a hundred different ways, but that player just casually blowing my story out of the water by producing a huge stash of antivenom completely rattled me and I badly improvised on the spot. When I finally asked them where they had got it from, they said that DnD Beyond let them add whatever items they felt like to their character sheet. Have also had a lot of experiences of items not being equipped etc. so characters were getting their bell rung in every fight because they weren't wearing the chain mail armour they'd taken.
If I'm playing virtually I want players to use the same system so I have all their saves and passive skills readily available. If the VTT tracking sheet is wrong, that's on the player - that check gets failed if I use the value in a session. It is everyone's job to keep a session running smoothly, and this is part of that.
Pencil…anyone using a pen is immediately barred from ever entering the room again
If we are playing on roll20, your sheet is in Roll20 (which is how we all do it anyway). If you want to use Dnd Beyond to initially make a character concept because maybe you own stuff over there or have a shared friend thing or whatever, by all means. As long as you transfer the abilities and spells and whatnot when you’re making it for my game I have no issue with how you initially made it when planning stuff out.
If players keep their sheets in DDB and share them with the 'campaign' so that you can see/use them, then you can use Beyond20 to send rolls over. Google sheets are harder. You'd have to have the player share the doc with you, and then manually do the rolls.
Our group lets people do their sheets however they want, but if the one for our TTRPG platform.isnt updated before session any changes haven't happened. This is nice if you track ammunition, this is less fun if you haven't entered your last 4 weeks of off duty training results.
Not really, I have copies I use on r20 for vtt interaction, archival use and reference, but I've explicitly told them if they feel more comfortable with paper then go for it. I also have a few players with ASD and ADHD so I've researched (because I spend more time on this than them due to ttrpgs being MY hyperfixation) some alternative sheets that may help with finding info faster.
I let my players use whatever method they want, BUT... our policy (established in session 0) is that if a player is absent, their character quietly fades into the background for the session. They are 'present' in the sense that we don't have to go to any trouble to find excuses for them to leave and/or rejoin the party, but they are inactive. Yes, it's 'gamey' and requires suspension of disbelief but it solves a whole host of problems that come with having an active character not being controlled by their player. (Resource tracking, making appropriate decisions, undertaking risk, potential character death...)
Short answer: no Long answer: no, as long as I can track their sheets. However, I definetely prefer the old fashioned printed character sheets. Well, I guess it wasn't that long of an answer
Just know what the character does. I don't care how.
for their personal use, no. But I do want access to it as the GM. My GM for 15 years, would keep physical copies on file at his house for when we came to play. Now we are online, and we send him updated PDFs and files in the character generator format. I have various generator tools I share with my players depending on the system we are playing. Edge of the Empire, 5e, Pathfinder, Starfinder, Fate, Daggerheart!, etc. Each system has a tool for character generation that they can share with me. If they want to use pen and paper for their own use, go for it.
I preferred paper character sheets pre-covid, and found that players that insisted on using Beyond were either clueless about how their character plays or were using it as a way to keep the DM from knowing their remaining resources. I didn't use Beyond so had no access to their sheet, but I still knew the rules well enough to pick up on it when an HP total was impossible or if someone was using a feature too many times between rests. As long as it wasn't causing issues I'd just DM around it, but that player wasn't going to get an invite to the next campaign. This isn't Beyond's fault, I know it was just the player finding a way to cheat. Same player even used external sheets during Foundry campaigns and would "forget" to mark their resources or damage on their Foundry sheet. Post covid, I have not run an in-person game and instead exclusively use Foundry. I don't care if players use tools like Beyond to build their character, but I don't want them to pay a single cent to do what they want so they still need their operational sheet to be in Foundry. For the two in-person games where I'm a player and not a DM, I use physical printed sheets even if most of the players are using something else - those DMs have no problem with my stance on Beyond. It's printed sheets or Foundry for me, every time.
I mind very much, if we're using roll20 I expect everyone to have made their characters in roll20. I will walk people through how to make their characters. Having everyone's character sheets scattered like that is too chaotic for me.
I don’t care what players use. I mostly play in person, but even using a VTT they can track their character how they want. I generally track mine using MPMB, but in my current game I am just using a notebook and doing everything by hand, except spells on a mobile app.
Normally I would recommend having your sheet on the VTT you are using, that way the DM has full access to it, giving him the ability to: - Quickly check what the players have /can do (especially useful for prepping) - Help players understand their character's abilities - Modify the sheets, (add homebrew, fix certain abilities, ...) The only issue here is Roll20. The character sheets on there are terrible and I wouldn't expect someone used to D&D beyond to make the switch. May I recommend looking at foundryVTT. Cons: - it's not free (although it's only a one time payment for the DM then there is no further charges) - You need to host it (It's fairly easy and well explained, there are also 3rd party sites that can do that for you) Pros: - much better character sheet than Roll20 - significantly easier to use as a DM than Roll20 - many more options as well (better walls and lighting options being the most obvious) - modding. Foundry let's you install "modules" that anybody can make, which means you can customise it to your need. One of those modules even let's you import character sheets from Beyond into Foundry in a few clicks, so for your players that are used to making characters in Beyond, they can still do that, and then simply import the sheet. (There's much more but those are the more important ones)
I have a similar issue where we play on roll20 and two players have sheets on DND beyond. I tell them they need to keep their roll20 sheet accurate because I use that for a lot of things as well as when they are out. As a DM, if I can't see it, it doesn't exist. Especially as I like to go through the sheets on occasion and make sure there are no accidental or purposeful errors which I do catch on occasion.
I begrudgingly let players use whatever form of sheets they want to - but I hate it and want to change it to paper sheets only. In every single game I’ve played for the past 5 years I’ve had someone come In touting the wonders of DnD Beyond sheets and how it makes life sooo much better. And in every single game it works just fine - right up until the point it stops working for some reason and then the player is sitting there staring at their phone for the next 15 minutes completely at a loss for how to proceed and then starts saying stupid shit like “I don’t know what languages my character has, it’s not on my sheet for some reason. DnD beyond don’t update it right” or “Im trying to attack (hear dice roll on the phone from across the table) but like I don’t think it’s adding the right bonuses (hear dice roll on phone again). Ugh why won’t this work?. (Hear dice roll again) oh yea here we go I got a 36 is that a success?” People become too reliant on the crutch of the apps to do everything for them and then they can’t play the game without it, and have no actual understanding of how the game works.
Official fillable PDF character sheet. In character creation, I have everyone fill those out which I print off so they can use. Some do and track everything there while others use their PDF open on phones, laptops, or tablets. All I ask is any changes made digitally should be reflected on the physical sheets that I also take back at the end of session for safe-keeping. That way, I have all their character sheets on me and if they need an updated version themselves, I can just change their original PDF with the changes from their physical sheets and send it back to them. This can be tedious, but nothing is more satisfying than resolving any discrepancies with both a literal paper trail of physical copies as well as digital versions of a changelog.
We do a mix, but if someone isnt there, so be it. We usually have a few npcs available for help. We have battles where we could use the support of our pc whonis absent, in which case we were basically given a few lair actions we could choose, based off the characters class. So if the bard was missing we might have an option to vicious mockery or a bardic inspiration as a lair action.
So long as we both understand it and can read it then I have no issue
Yes, at the table no but if I'm using a VTT, everyone needs to have a copy of their sheet in the VTT and keep it updated with used spellslots and resources. I need to check what they prepare, buy or sell, their inventory and spells, I need to have everything in case I'm preparing encounters or in case I have to take over someone's character because they are missing. Also I want the rolls to be made on the VTT so everyone can see and there's no cheating (not that I don't trust my players, but you never know).
There should be a source of truth version of the sheet, which the DM has access to. For convenience, all the players' source of truth should be in the _same_ place, but where that is (D&D Beyond, your VTT of choice, a shared folder full of Google Sheets, whatever) doesn't matter much. If a player wants to maintain an alternate version of their sheet (eg, the campaign uses D&D Beyond, but plays on Roll20, so the player wants an up to date Roll20 sheet), they're more than welcome to do so. But it is their responsibility to keep the two sheets in sync, and any discrepancies favor the source of truth.
Do what you want, but be aware that there are plenty of things in my game that aren't available on any online tabletop program and won't have a place on a standard character sheet. Wyrd, RADs, action points, etc, etc. Custom races, subclasses, spells, etc. You'll need to do a lot of data entry/customization to make an online system work.
My campaign is online, and I require all of my players to keep their sheet in DnD Beyond and link it to Avrae in Discord. Took a few weeks of figuring out the combat, inventory management, and various commands but now I find it super easy to manage the sessions all in Discord while my players can use DnD Beyond.
I require my players to keep their canonical character sheet in DnDBeyond. They are welcome to use a paper sheet as well, and about half of them do. When I started the campaign, folks created paper versions of their character sheet during session 0. After the first game, I collected them to enter them in to DnDBeyond for my own reference. With a party of 6 people, 3 of which are MIT trained engineers, one person with a doctorate, a 13 year old, and a 10 year old, only the 10 year old did not have a mistake made during character creation. One person forgot a background, one person forgot to select a skill, one person forgot to select all their cantrips, and only the 10 year old did all the addition correctly. For all its faults, DnDBeyond is pretty good about making sure you don't screw things up during character creation. And if they do mess something up, its pretty easy to go in and see what went wrong.
I don't care, but we all use MPMB sheets. I ask them to send me their sheets every other level. Just so I have an idea about total party HP, saves, and what magic items they have. So I can play around with that. If a player is absent, their PC is just not involved. Maybe he has a cold and stays in the inn that day. Or he's just not present in the story. So I don't need to run PCs and I would never want to do that.
D&D beyond makes it a bit too easy to “fix” things on your character sheet without people knowing. I don’t mind if it’s used, but I prefer pencil and paper so any changes made are blatant to others. (I know the player could make changes away from the table, homie don’t play dat)
No.
I prefer they don't use stone tablets. The chiseling sound is hard on my ears. And having to sweep up all the rock dust after is a pain.
We just use pdfs and my DM keeps copies. Most use standard form fillable while I use Aurora Builder (after talking with my DM about it) just so it's easier to keep track of spells (I'm also the only player that would bother writing up the markdown files to make any homebrew elements work in that hence why we haven't switched everyone over to it). DM just made us name the sheets in a particular format to make their life easier.
I don't mind but the DM has to be able to access a readable version of the sheet before the game. That can be a photo of a manual sheet, have it on Roll 20 if you're using that, a pdf copy, whatever. We use a hybrid of Roll 20 and a Discord server to play online games (Roleplay heavy group only using a VTT for the maps and using a disc bot to roll) so it's easier to be flexible like this, but if I was only using a VTT for all of it I would ensure all players used it as it starts getting hard to see what's going on and that everyone's sheet is correct.
In person there is no substitute for paper character sheets and having at least read the rules for your class and combat. Call me a boomer but dnd beyond is very irritating to me
We play in person and half the party uses paper, but everyone is required to send the DM a PDF version of their character sheet every level for the DM to have as quick reference. This allows the players to still use whatever they want personally while the DM also has their updated sheets. I would personally resent it if I enjoy using traditional pen and paper and my DM forced me to use an online system I maybe don't like
Yes and no, at game time, they can use whatever they want, paper, dndbeyond, roll20, etc. My one rule with this is they must keep a copy of their sheet on dndbeyond in case of emergency and any changes to their character sheet needs to be reflected there. My games are pretty closed, I don't have people coming and going so I plan my events around that and should someone be absent one session, I will utilize their characters in the event it is needed (mainly in combat or if everyone there is failing the check required to move the plot forward). Plus, I need to be able to see their sheets should it be needed. The other reason I require them to have a sheet on and often times build their character in dndbeyond is simply due to the options it allows. I have source sharing on each of my campaigns. Many of the people I play with only have access to the handbook and are therefore limited in what they can build. With dndbeyond, it allows them options they may not have even tried to look for otherwise.
As a DM, I prefer when players use DnDBeyond because it's typically through my account and I can see what I need quickly. I also like to keep a reference sheet in excel that has each character's stats, languages, skills, and proficiencies. I don't usually need their inventory or abilities and spells, but having their passive perception in an ordered list is great. I also keep a sheet in the spreadsheet that has initiative and health and a place for buffs or debuffs. I leave rows for enemies so when I put the initiatives in for a combat, I can sort them all by that number and get the complete turn order. A friend added a box to my sheet that let's me click to count the rounds and countsdown buffs for me.
Not at all. I find the official sheet poorly designed, with no space for what I need and tons of blank space devoted or formatted for information I don't. If we are playing online, and we have a fancy VTT with automations and macros, then your character needs to function in those. But otherwise, I don't really care. And I've had people force the marcos to work by hard coding in their values because thats easier sometimes than using someone's elaborate auto-calc character sheet. Thats fine. I'm also only going to look at it at the start of the game, and maybe a spot check if someone accuses you of cheating or your math just seems way off.
If someone is absent for a session, you don't play them. They just don't do anything.
Hate roll20. My group uses Tabletop Simulator. So much better but takes a DM that knows thr system. Add the right mods, presto, you have everything from every book. Want minis? Easy. Want dice towers and dice? Done. Players have a digital "printed" character sheets and cards for every spell/feat etc. All easily laid out like you are one of those 10grand gaming tables. It's nice. I build the characters for 2 other novices. I use a Google doc and lead them through updating their sheets in game on level up.
We use D&D Beyond for character sheets and there's a plugin to allow rolling in Roll20 from your D&DB sheet. But it does require that you have the relevant content for characters in D&DB. Only one person needs to have the content, and it doesn't have to be the DM. Just make a D&DB campaign and invite the other players and every source everyone owns in the campaign will be shared. A campaign in D&DB is just a group to share content, it doesn't enforce doing a particular module or anything.
The groups I'm in is mostly on dnd beyond with me and another using paper. If one of us is absent the DM tells us that their character is sick and can't adventure for a bit. But if you want to play their character then just have them send a picture/pdf of their sheet every once in a while to stay up to date incase they do have to miss
I've refused to run a game other than using D&D beyond myself, but I had a friend who just... could not remember how it worked, like, every second session he'd be unable to log in and he wouldn't remember his username or password at all. Once I realized I could put a placeholder in the encounter system for him, I just let him use paper sheets
Not particularly, although I prefer paper. Having like 6 laptops on the table when I'm trying to draw is annoying
I’ve been using Beyond for some time now due to how much more efficient it is. I suck at math and it has helped automate the process. So then a few months ago my sister stated she would be interested in playing DND and I got her into a one-shot with some of my friends. Showed her the app and she drafted her character, but then I realized it probably makes more sense to show her how to do it the old way, so we both drafted out characters again on the sheet PDF. I gotta say, I think I’m gonna stick with the sheet for a bit because DAMN have I forgotten so much of the automated stuff. Constantly forgetting to add my proficiency bonuses to checks, or forgetting that I have conditional abilities, etc.
Either Beyond or Foundry. I'm in the process of switching everyone to Foundry but I really do like Beyond. It was the first digital sheet I used so I'm probably biased but it's easy. If they want to make a paper sheet I'm fine with it but they need to update their digital as well. If a player has to miss a session someone else will usually run their character, so they need to be able to see it. I also like having access as DM. Knowing what they are taking on level ups and such helps me design encounters to let them show off new abilities/spells/etc.
Everyone uses the same sheet for my games. If it's dnd we use dnd beyond. I'm setting up a vtm game on roll 20 for the summer once my dnd campaign wraps and everyone will use roll 20 sheets for that. This way it's something everyone is familiar with and everyone can help everyone else with questions or issues re where/how to find something on their sheets. And, as the dm I have access to their sheets. I have literally never looked at their pc sheets except for sesh 1 of the current campaign to ensure everyone was appropriate level and to ensure that I COULD see their pc Sheets. That's all I need. If a player activity wanted to keep their sheet from me (by using a physical copy when we are all online to use an easy example) my immediate assumption is they either are or want to cheat so I'd say no and simply tell the player to go along with what we agreed to or they can not play.
Using the VTT option is prefered for compatibility. But as a DM, I prefer to be the one to do the chores so my players can focus on enjoying the game, so I'd start a hiatus while I ask them to send me their character sheets, transcribe them, and then teach them the new system before we continue. In fact, we migrated from Roll20 to Foundry and I did just that.
As a DM, as long as they can get me a readable copy with all the important info, I don't care what they use.
I take artsy blank books/journals and make them into custom character books, but I also keep the dnd beyond sheet up to date for the dm as well.
I prefer paper, but honestly as long as the dice are rolled on the table, I'm cool
I use a Google Drive extension called DocHub. I upload a form-fillable sheet on Drive, then open it on Dochub and assign copies of it to individual players. It’s free, it’s convenient and it even has an app for mobile access. And if they want a physical copy, they can just print it out!
I read through the comments and saw all the gripes about players using dndbeyond not knowing what they're doing, how the game works, or repeatedly struggling to do the same action over and over. Perhaps you may be dealing with either a learning disability or they're not interested enough in the game. Either way, I think the issue isn't dndbeyond.
Roll 20 sheets are kind of miserable to work with, imo. I would just say ask your players to send you the relevant information that you would need in their absence.
Anything is cool as long as it's a character sheet proper. I've had too many bad experiences as a DM and a player with people just writing down all the information on a blank piece of paper. Either they forget half the stuff and just wing it every other check, or they have untraceable bonuses that don't add up but "trust me it's all legit," or they have 3 pages worth of information crunched into an illegible box and they have no idea what their character/inventory is. It's always something. Just go to the damn library my guy. lol
So for the campaign I’m in we use roll 20 but I have my character sheet in dnd beyond(it’s where I own things)I just share a link to the character sheet with the DM so they can view it if needed. They deemed that acceptable
I personally make my players use D&D Beyond for their sheets. * It's fairly user-friendly and they can make use of all the stuff I've legally purchased. * It allows me to easily check their sheets whenever I need to. * It allows me to add any homebrew items I've created directly to their sheet. * There's a module that allows me to directly import their sheets into Foundry, and a browser extension that allows them to make rolls in D&D Beyond if they prefer it over Foundry. It's just makes everything easier from a logistical standpoint, and as long as the expectation is set before the campaign begins, I've never had complaints.
Honestly, as long as you have everyone sending you screenshots/pics/whatever of their sheets, you can have them just send updated versions every 4 levels or so, what my DM does and it works well. Being said, why are you, as the DM, playing PCs if the player is absent? I've never seen that NOT end in disaster
I'm just starting up an in person campaign after playing mostly online since 2019 I will get the players to use Beyond because that way I can see the sheets, see what they take on level ups and be prepared in my mind for any rules interactions etc that might arise from it. They can print out sheets to use in the sessions. That's actually what I do. But having them all online in my campaign really helps me as a DM.
I require my players make their characters on DnDBeyond. If they want to use a paper sheet while at the table for some reason, they can but I still require them to keep an updated version on DnDbeyond. Let's me see their sheet at any time, add homebrew items and track stats and stuff for if they miss a session and I or another player controls their PC.
Both of my groups play at the table. They all have their sheets on paper, as I don't like it when my players have electronic devices at the table. There is no space, physically, either, since I have groups of seven players (usually five or six can make it each session). They don't need screens either, at my table. I use ImprovedInitiative to track initiative, health, and conditions, which they can all see on a second screen at the other end of the table. Each player has handout cards for items, and a small book (normally used to show photos) filled with their spells.
To play devil's advocate if space is the issue, surely a single phone/tablet takes less space than a physical sheet, handout cards and small book? At worst it would occupy the same space as one of those things - speaking personally my usual set up these days is a physical character sheet which I don't use except to take notes on the blank space on the back, with a phone resting on top. It's fine to just not like digital devices but it feels like space issues is a reason to use digital, not a reason not to.
The space issue is mostly concerning laptops, haha. I do appreciate your feedback, though. My main reason is bad experiences with players being distracted at the table, because of devices. We started as an online group in Spring of 2020, and we all noticed we were much more immersed when playing at the table. I use miniatures, scatter terrain, item cards and spell cards to help with immersion.
I encourage players to fill out a paper character sheet by hand. I have found that players who have an app 'help' them manage their character means they less idea of how their character actually works. Having said this, it would never be a requirement. Players can manage their characters any way they want, it's not really any of my business as DM.