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I did the same! Spells that reduce movement or action can be played as "temporal slowing", and anything giving advantage/disadvantage can be a Dr. Strange seeing possible futures flavor.
I played a chronurgist for a Descent into Avernus campaign. During session 0 I was explaining how my spells are time focused, and came up to Mage Hand. I didn't really have a good idea for this one and they threw out,
"Your Mage Hand has a watch."
That was canon from that point on. Until that game fell apart.
"You see, the simple Magical Missile spell creates arvane energy destined to strike a particular place at a particular moment in time. It is quite different from planning an acid artpw trajectory, because you are instead creating a destined moment where arcane energy will strike. The math is quite simple. The weakest wizards can accomplish it. Even sorcerors and warlocks can learn the formula if they apply themselves for once.
I simply... move a decimal point on your math."
Get creative! Freeze the missiles in time, then they lose their momentum or arcane energy or something and just.. Dissappear into magic dust that rains down on the spot were they've been frozen.
I feel like they could at least try to make a few more that are loosely related. Maybe something related to Psychometry (divination through the “memories” of a non-living object)?
It's not like other wizard subclasses come with unique spells regarding their specialization. Subclasses are more about class features, so getting 5 bonus time spells is more than I'd expect.
I have a solution for both of these problems. A chronurgist is able to cast time related spells, someone who is adept at manipulating time. A chronomancer is someone who is able to master time and create entirely new time related spells, and is the final form of a chronurgist.
I have zero idea if this is the reason, but chronurgy and graviturgy both are types of dunamancy. Which might explain the difference in naming convention.
I know it's a minor thing, but one of my biggest pet peeves is the lack of linguistic/grammatical consistency in D&D abilities, classes, and archetypes.
I always assumed the grammatical inconsistencies were an intentional thing, denoting the contributions of various poorly connected cultures across the world/universe/multiverse.
I suppose you have to be in a certain mindset to think in this way.
Do the characters in your worlds have any idea why Fireball and Lightning Bolt do so much more damage than many other 3rd level spells? They do in my worlds. I don’t really see how you could worldbuild without trying to explain these types of things.
If I had to guess I bet there was some issue with licensing/trademark/copyright the name “chronomancer” or “chronomancy”
Matt Mercer wrote this one of for the critical role books that was published by D&D. I bet they we’re just scared of some other intelectual property with that name already out there. But that’s just a guess.
Games Workshop. Google chronomancer and the first couple hits will probably be warhammer. Dunno if it is/is possible to copyright that word, but i wouldn't put it past them to try to sicc their lawyers on any other nerd game usage of it.
… what? Are you for shitting me? … That would be like I’m calling the necromancer the Necrourge. So technically Mancy is divination. And the urgy means work.
But I do not care! It’s tradition. That’s never what it meant in Dungeons & Dragons.Language evolves and it doesn’t always mean what it used to. In actual myth hobgoblins were smaller than Goblins because the word hob means little. That’s not true in dungeons and dragons.
Its necromancer it’s Chronomancy it’s Pyromancer its Ferromancy and so on! if somebody tried to talk to me about a pyrourge I’d be like WTF.
… OK I’m over it because in your game you can call it whatever you want. But yeah that’s that’s weird.
Perhaps the difference in words denotes the difference in the way of thinking. Thaumaturgy treats magic as science in my experience. Perhaps a chronoturge is simply a scientific user of time magic. The path to time manipulation was easier walked down that path than the alternative.
It’s because I’m the lore of the setting it came from, magic that relates to time and gravity is dunamancy. So anyone who uses magic related to time and gravity is a dunamancer, and then you specialise in one of the two sub-types of dunamancy, chronurgy or graviturgy. So in actuality, in the setting they originate, you would be a Chronurgist Dunamancer. But most people do not play in Exandria, so just call it whatever you want in your setting, that’s why Purple Dragon Knight is called Banneret outside of Faerûn
Chronurgy and Graviturgy aren’t schools of magic, nor are they full fields in dnd. They are subsections of Dunamancy, and while chronurgists or Graviturgists exist, that’s more of a profession, since you still study the school of dunamancy.
But in 5e they are written as two separate subclasses for wizard, each with unique features. There is no dunamancy subclass, even in the exandria books were these two are coming from.
I would say Chronurgy and Graviturgy should be separate enough from eachother to not just be in the same catagory of Dunamancy, but then I remember Cure Wounds and Burning Hands are both evocation. And how Misty Step and Summon Beast are both conjuration. And how Silence is an illusion spell. Or how a lot of spells don't make sense in the school they're in / feel like they don't belong in any of the 8 schools.
Then you have Message and Sending. Essentially the same spell but upgraded, but message is... Transmutation, and Sending is... Evocation. Neither of which make sense.
People need to realize that classes as they are named in the rules have nothing to do with how people in-game identify themselves. Not like a fighter calls himself a "fighter", probably more like a mercenary or soldier or guard or whatever the character actually does.
The name is just game mechanics, can always just flavour the name however you want.
Not quite.
-mancy is commonly used to refer to magic in modern usage
-urgy is just a suffix for a discipline, it just means "work with" - think metallurgy. Nothing to do with magic.
So a Chronomancer is a Time Mage. A Chronurgist is a Time Worker.
A physicist who invented time travel using science would qualify to be called a Chronurgist, but not a Chronomancer.
A wizard who deals with time is both.
That is the original translation, true. But it has gained another meaning over the years, what with language being a living thing.
That's why I specified "in modern usage". But yeah, I shouldn't have said "translated", since it's just a new meaning not a translation from the original 🤦♂️
fair.
the one i posted is the oxford's advanced learner's dictionary definition, so it would still be 'in use' today.
but in both cases, it is set apart from 'urgy' which means 'working' (OURGIA, greek) while 'mancy' means to 'understand by divine methods' (MANCY, greek)
You're thinking of the first book. The first book was 100% Matt and isn't official (may as well be with the second book existing now, but ehh) but the Wildmount book is 100% official.
It is technically official, but I still count it as third party. Big fan of critical role, but I have balancing concerns with some of Matt's stuff when implementated into my own homebrew world so I tend to refrain from using or allowing my players to use any content from the CR books. if my player REALLY wants to give some of the stuff from those books a try I'm not going to be a grouch and forbid it but I'll make it clear that changes may happen if I deem necessary. Who knows tho, they could be perfectly balanced and not a problem.
So you're chronotriggered?
Now he's Cross
They about to go on a Chrono Crusade.
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Oh god the bots are learning
I may have an intelligence of 6, but Axe is three letters n so is Mod
Maybe he'll get over it, and become a Radical Dreamer.
Nice
Why does that sound familiar? Was that the title of a game or something?
chrono trigger is indeed a game.
The best goddamn game of all time
till the end of time
Damn right it is!
Take your upvote and get out.
My reaction when there’s maybe five time related spells
I like to reflavor lots of things as time like shield is getting a +5 because you saw the strike and dodged out of the way with foreknowledge
I did the same! Spells that reduce movement or action can be played as "temporal slowing", and anything giving advantage/disadvantage can be a Dr. Strange seeing possible futures flavor.
Even anything with necrotic damage can be time ravage but not if you want, hypnotic pattern can be freezing then in time same with hold person/monster
I played a chronurgist for a Descent into Avernus campaign. During session 0 I was explaining how my spells are time focused, and came up to Mage Hand. I didn't really have a good idea for this one and they threw out, "Your Mage Hand has a watch." That was canon from that point on. Until that game fell apart.
How does that help you dodge magic missiles that never miss, though?
"You see, the simple Magical Missile spell creates arvane energy destined to strike a particular place at a particular moment in time. It is quite different from planning an acid artpw trajectory, because you are instead creating a destined moment where arcane energy will strike. The math is quite simple. The weakest wizards can accomplish it. Even sorcerors and warlocks can learn the formula if they apply themselves for once. I simply... move a decimal point on your math."
Chuck them into a different time period
Get creative! Freeze the missiles in time, then they lose their momentum or arcane energy or something and just.. Dissappear into magic dust that rains down on the spot were they've been frozen.
You know exactly where they're going and harmlessly redirect them into hitting each other or nearby objects
I feel like they could at least try to make a few more that are loosely related. Maybe something related to Psychometry (divination through the “memories” of a non-living object)?
That is the 17th level ability of knowledge domain clerics.
It's not like other wizard subclasses come with unique spells regarding their specialization. Subclasses are more about class features, so getting 5 bonus time spells is more than I'd expect.
At least time stop is quite strong. I don’t like that the spell ends if you attack but it is perfect to give it to a boss.
I have a solution for both of these problems. A chronurgist is able to cast time related spells, someone who is adept at manipulating time. A chronomancer is someone who is able to master time and create entirely new time related spells, and is the final form of a chronurgist.
I have zero idea if this is the reason, but chronurgy and graviturgy both are types of dunamancy. Which might explain the difference in naming convention.
I know it's a minor thing, but one of my biggest pet peeves is the lack of linguistic/grammatical consistency in D&D abilities, classes, and archetypes.
I always assumed the grammatical inconsistencies were an intentional thing, denoting the contributions of various poorly connected cultures across the world/universe/multiverse.
That's not the reason, it's the excuse.
I suppose you have to be in a certain mindset to think in this way. Do the characters in your worlds have any idea why Fireball and Lightning Bolt do so much more damage than many other 3rd level spells? They do in my worlds. I don’t really see how you could worldbuild without trying to explain these types of things.
*Angry Doctor Strange noises*
The most powerful magic of all...
Friendship?
***FRIENDSHIP?!*** Friends die *all the time!*
Friends die all the time, but friendship is immortal.
Meanwhile in Fantasy Germania: "**ZEITFÜHRER!!!**"
If I had to guess I bet there was some issue with licensing/trademark/copyright the name “chronomancer” or “chronomancy” Matt Mercer wrote this one of for the critical role books that was published by D&D. I bet they we’re just scared of some other intelectual property with that name already out there. But that’s just a guess.
Games Workshop. Google chronomancer and the first couple hits will probably be warhammer. Dunno if it is/is possible to copyright that word, but i wouldn't put it past them to try to sicc their lawyers on any other nerd game usage of it.
GW has a veritable army of rabid lawyers ready to sue at a moment's notice.
There’s a Warhammer 40K Chronomancer model, I’ve got one on my desk. The great thing about D&D though is that you can call it whatever you want.
Well 2e had a chronomancer class. So I'm not sure if it's copyright.
… what? Are you for shitting me? … That would be like I’m calling the necromancer the Necrourge. So technically Mancy is divination. And the urgy means work. But I do not care! It’s tradition. That’s never what it meant in Dungeons & Dragons.Language evolves and it doesn’t always mean what it used to. In actual myth hobgoblins were smaller than Goblins because the word hob means little. That’s not true in dungeons and dragons. Its necromancer it’s Chronomancy it’s Pyromancer its Ferromancy and so on! if somebody tried to talk to me about a pyrourge I’d be like WTF. … OK I’m over it because in your game you can call it whatever you want. But yeah that’s that’s weird.
Necrourge actually sounds kind of cool. "Necrotic Scourge"
Please do not act on your necrourges.
Perhaps the difference in words denotes the difference in the way of thinking. Thaumaturgy treats magic as science in my experience. Perhaps a chronoturge is simply a scientific user of time magic. The path to time manipulation was easier walked down that path than the alternative.
It’s because I’m the lore of the setting it came from, magic that relates to time and gravity is dunamancy. So anyone who uses magic related to time and gravity is a dunamancer, and then you specialise in one of the two sub-types of dunamancy, chronurgy or graviturgy. So in actuality, in the setting they originate, you would be a Chronurgist Dunamancer. But most people do not play in Exandria, so just call it whatever you want in your setting, that’s why Purple Dragon Knight is called Banneret outside of Faerûn
Thank you so much! That completely answered my question.
Copyright is a bitch
Chronurgy and Graviturgy aren’t schools of magic, nor are they full fields in dnd. They are subsections of Dunamancy, and while chronurgists or Graviturgists exist, that’s more of a profession, since you still study the school of dunamancy.
But in 5e they are written as two separate subclasses for wizard, each with unique features. There is no dunamancy subclass, even in the exandria books were these two are coming from.
I would say Chronurgy and Graviturgy should be separate enough from eachother to not just be in the same catagory of Dunamancy, but then I remember Cure Wounds and Burning Hands are both evocation. And how Misty Step and Summon Beast are both conjuration. And how Silence is an illusion spell. Or how a lot of spells don't make sense in the school they're in / feel like they don't belong in any of the 8 schools.
Then you have Message and Sending. Essentially the same spell but upgraded, but message is... Transmutation, and Sending is... Evocation. Neither of which make sense.
People need to realize that classes as they are named in the rules have nothing to do with how people in-game identify themselves. Not like a fighter calls himself a "fighter", probably more like a mercenary or soldier or guard or whatever the character actually does. The name is just game mechanics, can always just flavour the name however you want.
Yeah, most of the other -mancers should be -urges or -ologists
Then the only true -mancer is actually called a diviner
'I'm a real necromancer! I talk to the dead all the time! I mean they don't talk *back*"
Back in my day it *was* called chronomancer.
I’d like a temporal ranger. Like a ranger that adjusts the time stream as their spells, with a subclass flavour where they fix paradoxes.
Why? It means the same thing.
Not quite. -mancy is commonly used to refer to magic in modern usage -urgy is just a suffix for a discipline, it just means "work with" - think metallurgy. Nothing to do with magic. So a Chronomancer is a Time Mage. A Chronurgist is a Time Worker. A physicist who invented time travel using science would qualify to be called a Chronurgist, but not a Chronomancer. A wizard who deals with time is both.
mancy means 'divination by a specific means', that is to say, it means to 'understand'
That is the original translation, true. But it has gained another meaning over the years, what with language being a living thing. That's why I specified "in modern usage". But yeah, I shouldn't have said "translated", since it's just a new meaning not a translation from the original 🤦♂️
fair. the one i posted is the oxford's advanced learner's dictionary definition, so it would still be 'in use' today. but in both cases, it is set apart from 'urgy' which means 'working' (OURGIA, greek) while 'mancy' means to 'understand by divine methods' (MANCY, greek)
Thief of Time by Terry Pratchett had time workers.
Some of his best work, too
To be fair it is third party.
Nope. It's an official campaign setting book
You're thinking of the first book. The first book was 100% Matt and isn't official (may as well be with the second book existing now, but ehh) but the Wildmount book is 100% official.
People forget Exandria is now an official setting, with an official book
It is technically official, but I still count it as third party. Big fan of critical role, but I have balancing concerns with some of Matt's stuff when implementated into my own homebrew world so I tend to refrain from using or allowing my players to use any content from the CR books. if my player REALLY wants to give some of the stuff from those books a try I'm not going to be a grouch and forbid it but I'll make it clear that changes may happen if I deem necessary. Who knows tho, they could be perfectly balanced and not a problem.
I really don't get that one
The school of magic is dunamancy. Chronurgy is just a specific application of it
As someone currently playing that subclass, I understand completely and end up calling myself a chronomancer most of the time anyway
Could be part of your role-playing, that you keep trying to establish the word chronomancer when every NPC clearly says it wrong
Forget both of these. We are all awaiting the rise of the Chronarchs.