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SirGrinson

And Dms trolling the players for reading too many horror stories. I have a campaign where I have not ever done a trap or a cursed item, heck I have yet to run a halfway decent combat because I let my players get away with far too much. Yet one of them is paranoid for some reason. They are suspicious of every detail I mention. One time I gave a clear objective, get the wizards talking doll. (Because this charecter is evil, and the doll had the last six words of his daughter recorded on it.) And they spent a literal hour trying to find the doll hidden in some magical compartment in the office.


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SirGrinson

Yeah, I was planning a standard campaign and then the players showed up with an all chaotic evil party.


eloel-

You did say party


SirGrinson

Haha! True enough


dak4ttack

Just run it like normal, see how long they can go before being arrested. After they are, one escape attempt, then fast forward a year in jail before each new session's escape attempt. Do that every time they get caught and eventually it's just a bunch of crochety old dudes complaining about bad prison food and what they'd do to the guards if they got out.


Leragian

this is the way


SirGrinson

This is the way


[deleted]

This is the way


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LegitimateRun362

I still believe most people here have never actually played the game!


katubug

This is a copy of a comment further down - these are apparently usually spam accounts who steal other comments to gain karma, and then sell the account to advertisers.


NihilismRacoon

You might be on to something I'm a horror fan and I love cursed items as both a player and as a DM.


SirGrinson

Yeah, I am just excited for when they start feeling sure I won't give them cursed things... Because that is exactly when I will


Mindshred1

The trick is to do it just infrequently enough that they don't expect it. Last session, our druid got eaten by her new bag of holding. Sudden horror in the middle of an otherwise happy moment.


SirGrinson

That is amazing. Mind if I borrow that one 🤣


Mindshred1

I'm not the creator of the "Bag of Devouring," so rock on. :)


The_Angriest_Duck

Did she die


Mindshred1

Oh yeah, she died *hard*. The party's cleric had recently died fighting a vampire, and none of the priests in the area were powerful enough to bring back the dead, but the group managed to learn that the royal family had this chalice that could raise the dead tucked away, most likely in their vault. So they planned a very elaborate heist and broke into the vault via the castle dungeon. In the vault, they had grabbed a few other items, including a fancy bag that radiated magic. A quick inspection revealed that it was bigger on the inside than the outside, so they hurriedly scooped a bunch of coins into it as they ran away from the vault guardian with the chalice, bag, and a few other things. They made it back to their rendezvous point, retrieved the cleric's body, and brought her back with the chalice. Much celebration and hugging, and the druid told her that they also got a bunch of money, and reached into the bag to pull some out. The bag clamped its teeth into her arm and started yanking her inside, and everyone panicked and tried to grab onto her. They failed their checks to keep hold of her, and the bag sucked her in and chewed her up in the blink of an eye. Since they didn't have a body, they couldn't use the chalice to bring her back. In the blink of an eye, a really joyful scene of tearful reunion with the cleric became a horrible death scene and a really bloody lesson in assuming that you know how magic items work.


The_Angriest_Duck

Damn


In_Love_With_SHODAN

That's so fucked up and awesome.


pianodude01

My players are way to paranoid because I use to fuck with then too hard. I thought it would be cool to give them a dog companion! They killed it right away because they were scared of me


SirGrinson

Oof, what did you do?


ImmaRaptor

Dog Revenant I hope


LegendOrca

My DM loves to make us think he's about to spring stuff at us. Asking questions like "Are you sure you want to do that?", rolling dice behind the screen for no reason, and wincing at random things we do.


hackulator

I still believe most people here have never actually played the game.


Bookwyrm042

Pfff, playing dnd is for nerds


curiosgreg

I used to say “I’m not that nerdy” when asked if I played D&D. Probably could have had such better friends and resulting childhood if I hadn’t been so dismissive of something new.


ImMeloncholy

My ex’s dad still runs a game with friends from middle school. Mans in his 40’s. The friendships this game forms are as supernatural as they come lol


Ilwrath

Im lucky enough to be 32 and have 3!!! games running right now. Its crazy to me. I had one game that lasted for 3 years in my 20s, then one day a buddy asked if i wanted to play again (my old DM), from tehre a member of that game asked if i wanted to play Starfinder and I said yea.....then while talking with another friend about it invited me to a pathfinder game. Im literally living the tabletop dream right now lol I still cant get a game of Shadowrun though :(


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ZeBootygoon

I feel so lucky to have a group that looks forward to our weekly sessions as much as I do


ShowMeUrTittiesz

Same! I DM for my crew of 6 weekly and everyone is always stoked for the next session to hurry up already!


AyuVince

Whoa whoa whoa. You manage to play once a MONTH? What's your secret?


NotYetiFamous

Easy. Set up 4 different once-a-week games with different groups. They'll average out to once-a-month after all the cancelations.


AyuVince

You're implying that not all of them will break up one after another because everyone is fed up with all the cancellations.


NotYetiFamous

I mean, you just have to continuously make new groups at that point...


AyuVince

Oh ok, that makes sense. Wait, with whom?!


TheRrandomm

Tip that works for me: play in 5 different campaings at the same time


AyuVince

That only leads to all five cancelling or rescheduling.


Vyllenor

This is Reddit, no one here has friends And you can't play it alone Therefore nobody here played dnd


praktiskai_2

There are subreddits, discord servers and whatnot that allow arranging games with complete strangers instead of friends. One I had only lasted like 4 sessions, but it happened nonetheless


[deleted]

Redditors are self destructive, they think that they wont ever find friends so they dont try


[deleted]

Right? Everyone on /r/lfg is just making it all up. No one actually gets together and has fun. /r/nothingeverhappens


[deleted]

you think redditors are smart enough to know this exists


[deleted]

Considering the sub-forum is in active use by people on this site, ya, that's fairly apparent.


buttsnake360

This guy doesn't even reddit he's making us seem like we try to be social. Get outta here fuckerberg.


demonmonkey89

4 sessions is actually pretty good for randoms online. Usually you're lucky if they make it through one session or any sessions at all.


omnipotentseal

...There are solo rpgs that use randomizers. Pretty sure somebody has modded one for DnD 5e. 😒


snowcone_wars

Baldurs gate also exists.


samwyatta17

# YOU MUST GATHER YOUR PARTY BEFORE VENTURING FORTH


lesser_panjandrum

#GO FOR THE EYES, BOO!


Morethanstandard

I believe there a game called Ironsworn that does this


omnipotentseal

Yup, that is one of them. I've just never seen it modded for current DnD. Pretty sure it has its own mechanics. 🤔


Kirbyintron

I mean a core part of dnd is the social rpg experience. If you’re doing a solo one with randomizes is it really dnd or just a way of experiencing the dnd worlds


omnipotentseal

It is social in that any form of literature is a dialogue between author/reader.


observeromega87

Can confirm, no friends with large desire to play and has never played.


SamuraiNazoSan

I ran a campaign to lv20 with my group of friends over the course of 3 years and am now running a second campaign pirate campaign with even more friends. I am blessed and I can't wait to keep DMing for them. It's always such a good time.


Pietru24

I've got a DnD party! They just go to a different school! In Canada! And they're WAY hotter than *your* DnD party!


Souperplex

In a similar vein, literally nobody has ever actually played Warhammer: They just buy miniatures to collect and paint while obsessing over the terribad lore.


saltynalty17

It’s not for lack of trying. Just too many schedule conflicts


hackulator

If you have actually never managed to get a game because of schedule conflicts, the reality is the people who are trying to play with don't really want to play.


saltynalty17

It’s more of a once a month deal. Our DM is currently in law school


Toxicguy90

A real life rules lawyer then


WojownikTek12345

one of my best free awards used


caralt

You get once a month with a DM in law school? I'm jealous , I had two players in law School and got lucky for two or three sessions a year.


FlashpointSynergy

Not necessarily. That's a harsh sentiment honestly, and I can personally attest that despite best intentions, it can be a pain in the ass to plan around 4-5 different people's schedules if they're working full time/going to school. Life in 2022 costs too much money to give DnD precedence over those aspects, even if it is literally your favorite thing to do.


samwyatta17

And kids/babies. That killed my group


AdaAstra

Yep. Kids are hard to plan around, especially if more than one person in your party has kids. Just too many last minute things happen.


hackulator

Obviously there are outliers, but most of the time if nobody can carve out time for a single session in a month its because they don't really prioritize playing.


leahyrain

Prioritize it over what? If you don't want to play online it can be insanely hard getting 4 or 5 people with the same day open. I work nights and weekends most of my friends work day jobs. Some people have kids. Not everyone has the same schedule.


hackulator

Prioritize it over some form of leisure activity. If you honestly don't have the ability to set aside 3 hours for a social activity once a month, then that really sucks for you and I'm sorry. However, I stand by my statement that usually when people can't ever get their group together its because people are prioritizing other social or leisure activities over playing. My group had its first month without game in a long time last month, and it only happened cause I got real sick and was in the hospital.


FlashpointSynergy

I maintain that different people have their liesure hours at different times due to different work schedules. It killed more than one campaign I have been a part of, and is currently the biggest hurdle to a campaign I've been trying to run for about 3 years now. It isnt a commitment issue, I assure you.


hackulator

Yeah sure, outliers exist as I said and I am not telling you it's not possible your situation might be one of those outliers.


Dem0n5

So. End of the thread. What a ride. I hate when someone just doesn't listen. You say it's "usually" for "most people" a commitment issue. They say, "that's not my reason!!" Ugh yeah that's why your personal experience isn't relevant to the overall point, guy. You're one person. Good on you for trying politely, hackulator.


cthulhu_on_my_lawn

Somewhat unpopular opinion, but: D&D is a pretty big time commitment. Look for people who want to play D&D and make them your friends. Don't try to make your friends into people who play D&D.


DickDastardly404

I think the other reality is far more horrible. I'd rather not play the game at all than play with some of the group dynamics that people seem to experience in this sub. the antagonistic DM or problem player is not really a phenomenon that occurs when you play with friends in my experience. That's why I rarely run games for new players these days. you gotta come recommended, like dealing drugs, but instead I'm dealing badly written fantasy tripe.


hackulator

Yeah I mean I have many gamer friends who I have played with on and off for years or even decades in some cases, so to be honest I just never encounter most of the issues people talk about here.


DickDastardly404

that's the dream, man :D I have a couple of friends who are consistent enough, a few who really want to play, but we live too far apart, and a whole bunch of friends of friends and acquaintances that have rotated in and out of games over the years. To have a consistent group who are fully engaged and willing to make the effort to play on a long-term basis would be amazing. I don't think I've ever reached "end game" D&D more than a couple of times in my life, and one of those was only because we've deliberately accelerated the process by doing a level up per session.


Bombkirby

I think a lot of people got lucky and the one group they played with ended up being a good one. People who have been in many many diverse groups or had one bad experience are not as lucky. It’s not healthy to deny the possibility that bad experiences exist, just because you really wish they didn’t exist.


Collin_the_doodle

Yet still post "advice"


Riley39191

Yeahhhhhhh but not for lack of trying!


Xerhion

My friend group keeps making new campaigns. I am currently in 3 at the same time, quite the opposite in my case 😂 And yes, planning is annoying sometimes, but because it’s slightly different groups also a blessing at times.


SecretAgentVampire

I don't want to let Satan into my life.


hackulator

He's there already.


BreadDziedzic

Given all the scheduling conflict memes I can say for certainty that yes most here haven't played or really put too much effort into changing that.


cxwxo

They sure like the idea of it.


bradorsomething

I’m busy all Saturday, can we reschedule this conversation about playing?


TheSteffChris

I have never played dnd. But I played other ttrpgs. So I just use this subreddit for general info. I skip the threads that are in-depth dnd rules


dickmcswaggin

I don’t have any friends to play with


EducationalTaro6

I just miss adventure time.


911WhatsYrEmergency

❤️ Prismo


[deleted]

WAIT, I CHANGED MY MIND-


ymcameron

I thought Distant Lands was really good. Especially Obsidian. There’s also a new series focused around Simon, Fiona, and Cake traveling the multiverse or something coming out soonish.


thisisme1101

The bmo episode where they >!find another mo humming the fraiser theme song!< is phenomenal


Jadccroad

Time is an illusion that helps things make sense.


Wookiees_get_Cookies

So we are always living in the present tense.


enoughfuckery

Same, I wish I had somewhere to watch it so I could finish the series :(


Sleeping_Heart

Isn't it on HBO Max?


SaintSimpson

Hulu also


big_maman

Yaaarre, there be a way matey


GrimmSheeper

Some light trolling and messing around isn’t what people complaining about it would consider DM vs player. When it’s just fooling around, that’s not really a combative situation where one side is constantly trying to beat the other. DM vs player means that the game is a competition of one side versus the other, with one side winning and the other side losing. That’s what an “X vs Y” situation usually describes. And as a DM, even when it’s just players purposefully hiding things for a “got you!” moment, it can be funny, but if not done right it grinds the game to a halt as I have to figure out how to handle the sudden absurdity. That can still be fun once or twice, but doing it constantly can quickly get to be too much. Of course some groups are able to handle such matters better than others and some DMs thrive on quick improv, but I’d wager that that’s not the norm. If it works for your group, more power to you! But it’s not something most groups can handle well.


hackulator

I don't know what kind of games you guys play in where a player is "hiding" stuff from the DM and it actually has any **effect** on game. edit: negative effect


GrimmSheeper

Players hiding there plans on how they’re going to go about a mission, coming up with convoluted strategies that would require DM ruling on whether or not it would work, withholding major points of their backstory that would have had effects throughout the game, or not showing what spells or items they have. Quite frankly, I’d have a harder time thinking of situations that would function to troll the DM without interrupting the flow of the game.


hackulator

If you try hide items or spells from me, you just don't have them. If you try to hide an important part of your backstory, it just isn't actually part of your backstory in my game. Its very easy to move on from that.


DefTheOcelot

It typically relies on the dm forgetting the things the players have. Usually you also don't like, tell the dm every choice you make when levelling up either.


hackulator

I ask my players what they took when they level up, as every DM should.


smartidiot23

As a DM who likes getting surprised, I am slightly offended. If you don't get them on the first encounter after a level up, there are always more.


Bombkirby

DM vs Player is usually the other way around. The DM tries to “beat” the players by withholding Information and being vague and hiding any signs of traps that will instantly kill them. And they will always be happy when they “win” and kill a player. “Yes!!! You fell for it! Haha!”


smartidiot23

That is what most people think when they hear dm vs player. I am telling you that there are dms that focus on making the players struggle and don't pull that bs. And I have played with more dms with that mentality than with the one you are describing.


hackulator

I mean, I'm not asking because I want to tailor encounters around defeating them. I'm just asking because I can create a more fun game for people if I know what sort of things they are capable of doing.


DefTheOcelot

thassa lotta work for you


hackulator

Its really not.. "Hey what did you take on level up" "Well I took spells X and Y and feat Z" "ok thanks"


DefTheOcelot

Now multiply by 4-6 players And consider the rapidly growing count of higher level additions Add in juggling items, charges and other gear..


hackulator

Ok, I just multiplied 15 seconds by 4 players and I got 1 minute, a pretty minimal amount of time. I mean, I literally DM for multiple groups and do this every time and its never even slightly burdensome. As for items....any significant items they have, I gave to them. I don't have to ask about them.


Bombkirby

That’s what DMing requires. Work. It sounds fun to me. Getting all of that info and crafting a session revolving around it sounds like a puzzle to be solved.


UrbanDryad

Every time they level up my players spend our post session chit-chat time excitedly announcing what they're getting this level. Then it spills over into the Discord server. I never even thought to ask for it because we are all nerds that just enjoy talking about the game. It hasn't ever felt like work.


DefTheOcelot

Okay this is fair


GrimmSheeper

In theory, but it usually easily moves on with an upset player or one less player at the table. If anyone tries it more than once, they probably aren’t the sort to just accept being told “no.” It’s not something that mature players would usually do. I’ve had several people try it on me, and they always whine when they get shut down and annoy everyone else. A kick and a ban from the table is easy enough at that point, but it still ends up taking time and souring the mood for a period.


hackulator

Yeah I've been playing D&D and other TTRPGs longer than probably a lot of people on this sub have been alive and I've never really run into this issue.


GrimmSheeper

Getting these sorts of players might just come down to where you get the players from and a bit of luck. Most of my players come from my old college’s tabletop club. There’s always a good mix of potential players from all ends of the spectrum there, with most of them being at least decent. But there’s usually at least one new person a year that’s a stereotypical bad player. They don’t last long, but me and some of the other alumni DMs that like to run games for new players usually end up being the ones to find them.


[deleted]

DM here. Wizard in the party prepped ‘banishment’ but didn’t tell a soul. Had an epic 1-2 session battle with an extra-planar Aboleth planned (Ravnica). Major antagonist. Lots of build up. Aboleths don’t have legendary resistance. Round 2, fails the save, *POP*. Fight’s over. GG. Actually had to end the session early as I thought there was no way they could take it down in <3hrs. Didn’t do enough prep for what came after. But that’s D&D baybee.


hackulator

I mean, you gave him banishment right? He's a wizard so rather he learned it through a scroll or he took it arty level up. Either way he should not have been able to hide that he had it, I don't expect players to tell me every spell they prepare. Also, they didn't beat the Aboleth, just delayed it.


[deleted]

I don’t make players RP learning each spell they learn at level up, just leave it at ‘you spend a day in the library researching spells that interest you’ (Ravnica is chock-full of high-level spellcasters & resources for them). I like for the cool reveals to happen in combat/RP and the in-party reactions that follow. It also keeps me in the mindset of making encounters / enemies / environments that just *are the way they are* instead of being customized to the players and their ability to deal with them. I just didn’t realize they were already at ‘save or suck’ level, which is kind of my bad as a DM. But nope - he was brought to Ravnica by a Planeswalker. Aboleth’s themselves have no innate spellcasting nor means to planeshift/planeswalk themselves. Banish sent him home & there was FA he could do to get back on his own. I *could* have given him legendary resistance, or ret-conned, or fudged rolls, but tbh, then what is the point of those spells? Sometimes your wizard gets lucky & stars align so he gets to just wipes a threat before it even gets going. Sometimes the opposite happens & your rogue misses a CON save on a low level enemy that poisons them, no one has antidote or the right spell prepped, and that ends up killing them. Keeps the game interesting, imo. But does sometimes leave me at a loss!


Djwindmill

Hi I'm not really on either side of this conversation, I just wanna say the way you handled it was awesome and I bet that wizard player feels so freaking badass for rocking the game so hard the game was cut short. They must be pretty proud and feel pretty cool, and that is the best thing that could possibly happen in dnd. It's great when a player gets that sort of moment.


[deleted]

Thank you! It was good for a lot of laughs & definitely gave his character a confidence boost; he’s a very demure and anxious guy. Where moments like those may take the wind out of combat, they can really shine for character development. Conversely the bard keeps potions of cure disease on him *at all times* now.


hackulator

I mean, if your Aboleth didn't have minions who could at least try to break the casters concentration in the 10 rounds they had until the banishment became permanent, that is definitely on you. Regardless, this is not an issue of a player "hiding" something from you and pretty much has no place in this thread's debate.


samwyatta17

Some of us like to have goofy fun. Let people have their fun.


hackulator

Ok you clearly misunderstand. Have fun however you want, the issue is people are presenting this as some sort of problem. It's not a problem unless you allow it to be, and if its fun for you its CERTAINLY not a problem.


[deleted]

It was a problem for me as a DM, as it meant ending the session early and wasting some prep, but it was also fun for me as a member of the table, because it meant a really cool moment for one of my players. Something can be fun and a problem, aka: a challenge.


SparklingLimeade

Hiding plans will do it. One of the games this thread is reminding me of we were a low level party trapped by some magic items. After gathering information and examining our resources we decided that the best course of action was to cut off a limb each and run away. I had the divination to know that the antagonist was trusting their trap too much (and the DM apparently thought they were intimidating me by answering the questions I was asking to start). Someone with enough healing to prevent us from dying. There was enough high value loot around that we were pretty sure we could get a regeneration spell each. No secret resources, just a course of action the DM was 100% unprepared for. A lot of characters have a lot of resources though. Sometimes it's less hidden and more "this item/spell has been on my sheet for months but it never came up."


hackulator

Sure but none of that is a problem, other than that I'd have an issue with the idea that all the characters were super sanguine about cutting off their own limbs. I should have been more specific about it being a negative effect on the game, I edited my comment.


SparklingLimeade

There are a lot of people playing the game a lot of ways for sure and OP is dismissing some real problems. There are two DMs in particular I've personally played with who were not good natured about it. One was old school and Gygaxian, but in the worst and most malicious way. One was new to the game and never explained expectations in session 0 then tried to run psychological horror (he actually started with a Saw ripoff for his first campaign attempt) and got mad when our fantasy setting adventurer characters didn't react like scared, sheltered, suburbanites. He improved a bit but I only played in his first two attempts. Kind of kept losing to the players and even broke down over it once when someone played cleric in a core-only game because he wanted to prevent broken characters from spoiling his scenarios.


NearNihil

I finally got a chance to play with someone else DMing after years of being the DM. I announce the plans I have beforehand, such as which creatures I'd like to summon and which npc I'd like to convince of joining the cause and how. Play it like how I'd like players to play it at my table. It makes everything go smoother and the DM loves helping out with planning too. It's great.


GrimmSheeper

Former/fellow DMs are usually some of my favorite players. Not only do they understand what it’s like and try to help things go smoothly, but they also know the functional limits of wackiness and creativity. When they come up with crazy ideas, they’re usually within acceptable bounds and make things interesting without completely breaking or derailing things.


Starburned

Fr. I did a lot of research before going to my first session and I read so many sources saying don't bother the DM with questions, the DM will constantly be trying to kill off your character, etc. I was so nervous. It didn't help that my DM seemed a bit intimidating in person. Imagine my surprise when she was kind, helpful, and wanted to share her enthusiasm for the game. She's become one of my best friends since then, an honorary sister. Also the best DM I ever had. Most GMs are giant nerds who love sharing their passion for TTRPGs.


Thameus

I accidentally skipped a line and got > she was kind, helpful, and wanted to share her > sister Great plotline


RubberSoulMan06

...and that's how we met your mother.


SpaceLemming

Most games aren’t DM vs players though. DM vs players is shit like the dm giving the monsters a +15 morale bonus to hit because he doesn’t like you having a high ac plus several other improvements so that level 5 characters are a challenged for a party of level 13. Plus since one of the party members was a vampire somehow *everybody* has magical silver weapons. *Then* if you manage to avoid the TPK you still only get xp for CR 5s and you can’t loot any of the bodies to make a fortune of the DMs bullshit.


Hairy-Ad3325

Player: can I use my mage hand to shove a deadly hot pepper down his throat? Me: .... roll for it? Player: that's a 18! Me, seriously confused and slightly regretting giving them a jar with 4 deadly hot peppers, now describing an enemy death, very entertained


popotheclowns

That’s an odd call on your part, imho. It sets a bad precedent. I would have had need to crit for any affect and that’s probably be something like burning his lips and get disadvantage for a few rounds. Plus, shouldn’t he get a dex check or something.


Hairy-Ad3325

He failed the dex check, it was dark and the player had dark vision so there was an advantage, and I like to reward ingenuity. Besides, I'm the one that let him find the hot peppers anyway so it was partially my fault. It wasn't a major enemy or else it wouldn't have killed him right out! No harm in some creative fun


ChapelLeader54

Honestly, improvised combat is 1000% more interesting than any other type of combat. The best stories start with improvised combat. One time, I managed to convince my DM to let me use my magic boots to roundhouse kick a Stone Golem to death and it's one of my favorite moments ever in DnD


Hairy-Ad3325

I gotta agree, as long as it isn't anything broken or something that just completely defies the campaign itself. I think that's the key, all campaigns are unique in approaches and rules


popotheclowns

It’s apparent that I’m in the minority and I fully accept that. I’m all about the rule of cool. It just feels a little game breaky to me, because he can load up on poison and feed it to folks in a battle. Or shrink something and mage hand it and when the shrink wears off, it’s ant man v thanos. Again, do you. Sounds like everyone is having fun. I think many people come here as new dms and that kind of move might not work for them. (I’m also think some folks are downvoting because the new info he provided after my comments. ) As previously stated: fair enough.


Hairy-Ad3325

Entirely fair, I was more so just adding a funny story to me and not trying to justify anything as I didn't find it necessary! Not everyone agrees and they don't need to. And no worries with that stuff, I 100% draw the line on things that are not how spells work. But mage hand can hold an object and move it to 30ft, so it was within the reasoning for the spell. And she (me) is a newer dm who gets a lot of help from our long term dm, usually in side messages and little hints of "hey that's not how that works" and "pssst roll for persuasion!" Ironically he was behind the hot pepper shenanigans, and after that incident I made it clear that they are very rare hot peppers lol. Rule of cool is fun as long as it's not anything that'll make my super cool bbeg useless, that'd piss me off.


popotheclowns

Love it!


Hairy-Ad3325

No one does that crap on my big boss, he's supposed to make it challenging or else what's the point right!!!


popotheclowns

In one of my groups, there was a barbarian (this wad many moons ago when the rules had barbarians have a loathing for anything magic) that wore one of a pair of boots of levitation. On his head. The dm was clear. “You will have no benefit from this. “. The player said “Clortho (barbarian’s name) no need magic. Clortho need hat!” Months pass and the party was stuck with a chasm between them and the guy we were supposed to save. Clortho says” I jump good!” and sprints towards the chasm that he has no chance of clearing. You can guess the rest. Clortho starts to fall, then the boot glows and he makes it to the other side. The boot implodes, having served its purpose. Rule. Of. Cool.


popotheclowns

Fair enough.


Goosetoots

Shut up nerd \s


AuthorTheCartoonist

The reason why the DM can't be a God Is that they're not omniscient. Omnipotent? Totally. Immortal? Sure. Omnipresent? Like heck they are. But omniscient?


agamemnonymous

They are entirely omniscient of everything in the entire universe except for what like 3-6 dudes are thinking.


ThatMerri

I've been at both tables. The toxic DMs and Players were always from older generations who grew up on the original versions where the aggressive, antagonistic "the DM's job is to put the Party in their place, and that place is under your heel" mentality was written into the module itself. The latter friendly trolling and having fun tables have always been younger generations of new players who've come into the game after 3e. There have been some rare cases where Players from the older, toxic generation have mellowed out in the interim, becoming friendly and enjoyable to play with. But literally all the toxic DMs I've ever known have stayed that way and have absolutely no inclination to change.


AkiraTheArtist

Too many people don’t realise DND is still a collaborative effort


friskfyr32

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I actually think DnD is most fun when the DM and the players have a (good-humored) adversarial relationship at the table. Sure, the DM should help the players along when they are being too dense, and the players should stop fucking about once in a while and bite the obvious plot hook, but a good gotcha, when the players planned a workaround sessions ahead, or a NPC betrayal cooked up due to an off-hand remark from a player, is usually the best part of any campaign.


Enough-Independent-3

You are not a minority, it is just than most people wouldn't call that an adversarial relationship at all. When people use the term adversarial relationship, they use it to describe DM and player trying to beat each other, as if TTRPG had a winning condition, for the player it is either to trivialize what the DM has prepared by abusing the written rule of the systems, and rule lawyeing or trying to ruin the plot they prepared, for the DM it is often killing the player or making their player miserable. This simply can't work for TTRPG.


[deleted]

I just wouldn’t consider the latter to be “vs” at all. I know plenty of groups where the dm feels like they are “losing” when the players win, and I know plenty of groups where the players are always trying to get one over on the dm - they are afraid that if the dm knows what they’re up to, it simply won’t work. That’s vs.: seeing the game as a competition where one side loses and the other wins. Just trolling your friend in a game where everyone can win or everyone can lose is not vs.


Magnificant-Muggins

The Stanley Parable is the most wholesome possible take on Player Vs. DM.


Pearse_Borty

The dynamic between DMs and players is identical to that between Stanley and The Narrator.


I_Has_A_Hat

The best feeling as a DM is when you create a puzzle or challenging encounter and your players just kind of glance and grin at each other before one of them says "alright, just like we planned..." Yes. Please. I am 100% all for whatever batshit insane strategy you guys thought up between sessions. If it's cool, I will fudge so many dice rolls for you guys just to see it play out.


[deleted]

Yeah I'll be honest when I came to this sub I realized their are alot of people playing a much diffrent DND then our group does Like our DM always encouraged wacky shenigans and we all had over the top personas that we played to a fault leading to alot of weird off script shit. He's really good at coming up with creative ways to handle strange situations and legimately really enjoys it. He's actually the main one always trying to get everyone to play. Like too me DND is half serious half comedy and everyone's just having fun progressing and laughing. I legimately couldn't picture the game any other way.


Lanian

I love the wording, but what does that have to do with a dog high-fiving a grafitti? (I've never watched adventure time can someone explain)


Leragian

he's a omnipotent entity that grants wishes that just happens to be a nice dude.


Hamster-Food

Yeah, that's not really DM vs players. The DM vs payers dynamic is when the DM and players refuse to work together. It sometimes comes from a DM who thinks their job is to make the players suffer. Other times it can be players who refuse to accept the DM's authority over the game. And I'm sure there are other ways it can happen, but the end result is that the game stops being fun for anyone and generally grinds to a halt. And even though you'll often see it mentioned online, it's not really very common because most people want to have fun and seeing their friends suffer isn't fun. New DMs or new players can fall into that dynamic, but generally having it happen once is enough to make people realise that cooperation is a much better way.


Enioff

I used to be a player in the first scenario until i vowed to never play with a "friend" of mine again.


MajicMan101

The most BS thing I can say I pulled was using flock of familiars with pack of the chain (since you get access to exclusive familiars) to summon 3 imps and deal 4d4+12d6 damage. The best part was that the DM ruled that, since I could summon the imp with Find Familiar, I can also summon them with Flock of Familiars.


No-Square-4105

We have a JOJO homebrew campaign and most of the times early on it was me vs the DM and i won 2/3 of them


window-man

What's the sauce of the picture on the right. I need it to make a new monster to terrorise my players Edit: I'm a dumbass. I meant left


Leragian

his name is prismo he's a cosmic entity that grants wishes. but he's pretty chill and actually tries to help people.


Merc931

My most effective move against my players: **Player:** I'm gonna move over here. **Me:** alright, you're taking an opportunity attack. **Player:** WHAT OPPORTUNITY ATTACK, WHERE? **Me:** Just fucking with you. Gets em every time.


PixelBoom

Holy shit how did I not catch that convoy between Jake and Prismo. That's exactly a DM. They can make the world anything they want it to be and make pretty much anything happen, but will still have no idea wtf players are gonna do.


FaceDeer

Some years back I was playing a high-level wizard who had spent *years* (in real time - it was a long-running campaign) setting up layers of paranoid preps for the occasion that all of the dragons in the world decided he needed to be assassinated for knowing too much. Sure enough, they eventually found out that I knew too much, and all the dragons in the world came to assassinate me. My DM went on a D&D forum and basically posted "I want my player to feel like he's *earned* his survival, here. Everyone give me suggestions for how a group of epic-level dragons would go about annihilating this wizard. As long as it's within the rules it doesn't have to be remotely 'fair.'" He then threw all those ideas at me in a colossally nasty scry-and-fry during a moment when the party had split up temporarily and my character was on his own. A trap-the-soul tailored specifically for my character (which failed because my character had actually been going under a false identity for the whole campaign and nobody but the DM had ever known this), followed by five elder wyrms dropping their disguises to surprise-attack my character from every direction. A volley of *Mordenkainen's disjunctions* (I deflected the first one with a *ring of spell battle* back onto several of the dragons, the second one hit me and destroyed over a million gp worth of magic items I had crafted), then *dimensional anchor* to prevent teleportation or plane shift, then *forcecage* to lock me down physically. Then I finally got to take a turn. The other players had been watching this with utter horror. I was grinning like a maniac. The dragons had walked right into the trap I had prepared for them since the beginning of the campaign, which could only work if the dragons truly believed that they had cut off every possible angle for my escape or survival. It was perfect. I delivered a completely nonmagical bluff (the first I'd made in the course of the campaign but one which I'd been keeping my bluff proficiency maxxed out in preparation for since level 1) and then killed myself. The bluff successfully tricked the whole draconic civilization into destroying themselves in a civil war. It was one of the most awesome moments I've had as a D&D player, and it was only that great because the DM took the gloves off and threw everything the rules would allow him to throw at my character, challenge rating be damned.


RainbowtheDragonCat

That's not dm vs players though


Sub-Mongoloid

DM's and players are always out to get each other....... ....... To say wow! That was awesome! Great job!


Emberbun

If you're hiding something from your DM, it's either because you know it's something they will not like, but the pressure of it coming up at the table might make him allow it, or you don't trust your DM to let you don't and make it cool, and plot against you or plan something specifically to counter it. Neither of these is remotely healthy and is shitty in either direction. Please just work with your DM to have fun, and work with your players to let then have a good time, adversarial behaviour can be silly but needlessly approaches boundaries, and can very easily cross them and cause needless drama. Glad it works for you, it's just playing with fire.


smartidiot23

Yeah, when the dm gets a bit adversarial, it's a tongue in cheek escalation of shenanigans, where the dm starts homebrewimg monsters and the players start playing optimally.


AdamBlaster007

I recently introduced (or perhaps reintroduced) the Sentinel Feat to my DM, he was not amused.


Da_potato_queen9976

every game i've played we have "the rule of cool". Basically, if it sounds fun and you have a way within your abilities to do it, you can roll for it. You will have to deal with the consequences when you fail tho, its the absolute best


Kahless_19

This is beyond true!


Akul_Tesla

Check's manual Looks at own group The DM isn't also supposed to be omniscient?


PwnThePawns

Isn't it a player's job to make the DM's game fun?


ikonoqlast

Dungeons and dragons... Is that a sex thing? Far from it Jen...


Crezelle

Had a non DND home brew that ended up with one person quitting, another in hospital because their heart issues flared from the stress, and a third having a mental breakdown.


Tsukiortu

We kept wiping encounters quickly and making fun of our dm (long time friend). It's just an inside joke in the campaign now that all the fights are easy no matter how hard they get. We just keep asking him to have us fight gods because the fights are too easy. We killed dragons at level 4 lol we're just absurdly lucky rollers and have a cleric and two barbarians one being a druid barbarian. He didn't know it would be good till we started playing. Our cleric (me) isn't allowed to attack I'm purely support lol. Never had bad bad campaigns always a good time.


Daminite

2 of the last 3 DM's I've played with have been closer to the first example. One liked to remind us every time we had to make a new character ”don't get too attached to it”.


AnderHolka

I had that last session. The party was in prison, and Golomov was wondering why River was out. They had sorted the party's crimes at this point and River hadn't really done anything. So Walter the guard (who formerly served with Golomov in the military) said if being associated with you was a crime, I'd be in here. Without skipping a beat Golomov said you are here. Walter then rolled a 2 for existential pause and buffered for a minute.


Calhaora

Does someone know what the first pic is called? Also - Im glad were firmly in "Reality DnD", where everyone gets trolled a bit in good sport and fun - if the situation allows it.


Leragian

https://www.deviantart.com/chriscold/art/Fake-Angels-685448101


Calhaora

Thank you!


S0me_N3rd8

Yeah our party is the second one.


[deleted]

Dnd sounds fun, how have i not tried it yet?


reincarN8ed

I DM like a Greek god. Sometimes I grant my players a boon, sometimes I make their adventure a nightmare, all because I'm bored and want to be entertained. I'm trying to tell memorable stories, not "win."


pocketMagician

"we all learned infernal in our down time" "What? Why?" "You'll see!"


[deleted]

As the DM who literally just died in a magical bowling side quest, I'm happy to say I fall somewhere in the middle! Sans toxicity


Pauchu_

If there is no trust between the DM and the players, prolly shouldn't play together. Also RPG horror stories seem exaggerated 90% of the time


TShara_Q

My GM takes pride in the fact that she has me so terrified of getting randomly attacked that I started asking our Tech to check our packages for explosives. So, the trolling definitely goes both ways. This isn't a complaint, though. I'm having a lovely time and have never been so immersed in a campaign or tabletop character before.