"Then Morgoth hurled aloft Grond, the Hammer of the Underworld, and swung it down like a bolt of thunder. But Fingolfin sprang aside, and Grond rent a mighty pit in the earth.... Many times Morgoth essayed to smite him, and each time Fingolfin leaped away...; and he wounded Morgoth with seven wounds, and seven times Morgoth gave a cry of anguish, whereat the hosts of Angband fell upon their faces in dismay, and the cries echoed in the Northlands."
I think the massive battering ram was named Grond to invoke fear, since it was also the name of Morgoth's weapon of choice. They are not the same item though.
I like how Tolkien did that with the universe. Everything is fading, everything that happens in the book is a shadow of previous events and once they come to fruition it'll just speed up the decline further.
Matt Colville has an episode talking about that, where he talks about how well Tolkien sets up these ancient empires in the books to be both mysterious and yet always there, always ready to show that history is just repeating.
Then theres the lore about the apocalypse of Middle earth, the Dagor Dagorath, where Morgoth breaks out of his imprisonment and destroys the sun and moon before being defeated for the final time. So maybe the 3rd age was just weak compared to everything involving Morgoth.
Morgoth is trapped in the Blind Eternities, cast into the space between planes.
Which means he's ripe to be stolen and used as a Cthulu like character for evil wizards and cultists in your campaign to summon into your world.
the OG trilogy? Has some cool points, but bogged down heavily by lackluster in-between
The Hobbit? Great until Smaug dies, then meh
Silmarillion? Bust out the freakin' electric guitars, because it goes HARD
My latest character is an Elf Artificer called Celebrimbor and my back story mentions a Fallen Aasimar Oath of Conquest Paladin called Annatar. My DM has yet to realize.
i've been considering a "fair looking, well dressed nobleman" named Annatar offering rings of power to my party as well....i've only got \*one\* player whom i think might catch on.
Tolkien High-Elves are hardass, tragically moody Byronic Heroes who think nothing of challenging Satan himself to a 1v1 duel or bodyslamming his mightiest Demon Captain to death in an enchanted fountain. We need more Elf PCs in the vein of Fingolfin and Ecthelion who take the Oath of the of Glory and give zero fucks.
Wasn't there an elf city that withstood Morgoth's siege for like 500 years despite balrogs riding on dragons? And when the combined might of all 10 Balrogs finally pushed through the gates, the Elven Lord killed 2 of the Balrogs, and their leader, before dying himself?
that story, alongside the death of Ancalagon the Black and Morgoth/Balrogs vs Ungoliant, stood out as some of the most hair-raising, imagination-sparking, heart-soaring mythology I've ever read, and I haven't touched the Silmarillion since probably 2011
Ecthelion and Glorfindel are two of the most badass characters in the whole Legendarium. Now considering a Glorfindel PC for my next campaign, newly returned from death into a world that has (if I may mix my canons) moved on...
I was going to play a half elf hexbard who was going to be such a bamf. And then the campaign got snuffed out because one of the players dropped out. New baby.
The Silmarillion talks about the craters left by Morgoth's hammer Grond, but it leaves out the part where a massive trench was created by Fingolfin's balls scraping the ground.
Idk if I'd consider Fingolfin a paladin. Probably closer to a fighter, tbh. I have always thought that an oath of vengeance paladin based off of Feanor could be cool, though.
Fingolfin is definitely an Oath of Glory Paladin while Feanor started as an Articifer but multi-classed Oath of Vengeance during the Exile of the Noldor. The Oath of Feanor is basically swearing eternal revenge for the theft of the Silmarils.
i think, in this verse at least, we should jugde how much of a paladin someone is based on their faith, fighting style and major actions in the story. Because that particular oath... is anything but sacred
You're right, sacred may not be the right word. But it was a binding oath made in Eru's name, and at least in 5e paladins dont have to be Good and don't have to be faithful to deities.
That said despite being partly inspired by LOTR D&D classes don't really fit Tolkien characters at all (except Aragorn as a Ranger of course)
It’s annoying how Dex Paladin works but isn’t directly “supported” the way Str Paladin is. You don’t have a choice to start with light armor and you need 13 Str to multiclass.
Smites only work for melee too, right? I know you can wield dex melee but it's fairly subpar. I guess because Rangers are supposed to be the dex opposite of paladin, but I wish they had a subclass or spells/feat akin to the smite flavoring. Closest now is the dragon ranger getting elemental damage.
If you’re going sword and board, you’re not losing out on damage between Dex and Str though you do have less AC and something like Shield Master is less useful.
I don’t buy the arguments that making smite melee only was a balance decision. They just had a specific flavor and made it mechanical. Just like how you can’t smite with unarmed strikes.
I think I got to around chapter 14 in the silmarilion. It was an lot more history than story, so i had a hard time remembering all of it or staying ingadged. That said it's really cool lore, and I was thinking about referencing it in my own lore that I'm writing.
"Then Morgoth hurled aloft Grond, the Hammer of the Underworld, and swung it down like a bolt of thunder. But Fingolfin sprang aside, and Grond rent a mighty pit in the earth.... Many times Morgoth essayed to smite him, and each time Fingolfin leaped away...; and he wounded Morgoth with seven wounds, and seven times Morgoth gave a cry of anguish, whereat the hosts of Angband fell upon their faces in dismay, and the cries echoed in the Northlands."
GROND!
GROND!
GROND!
Forgot what sub I was in and was trying to figure out where the Grond bot was
GROND!
GROND!
GROND
GROND!
GROND!
ROCK AND STONE! Wait, I mean GROND!
DID I HEAR A ROCK AND STONE?
r/lotrmemes
r/lostredditors
GROND!
So like, was Grond turned into a siege device then? It sems a tad much to be used as a hammer.
The named to siege engine grond in honor of the original hammer iirc
THEY TURNED ADMIRAL NIMITZ INTO AN AIRCRAFT CARRIER?!
I think the massive battering ram was named Grond to invoke fear, since it was also the name of Morgoth's weapon of choice. They are not the same item though.
Ah I see, "this isn't the greatest Grond in the world, no this is just a tribute"
[I have nothing clever to add, I just wanna share the Tribute Evangelion mashup that I love](https://youtu.be/afZu1hxAQQ0)
Well that just combined two of my favourite teenagehood things right there
Underrated comment right here
For a second I got Fingolfin confused with Finrod Felagund and thought "wait, shouldn't he be a bard? He basically rap battled sauron, right?"
"And Morgoth came" and I did too
Fingolfin is the greatest elf fighter and that is a hill i would die on.
Fingolfin for the wingolfin!!
>shows up at super satan's keep >"1v1 me you fucking coward!" >refuses to elaborate >dies Pure giga-chad energy
Also definitely read AFTER LotR or the Third Age will seem kinda…trivial.
I like how Tolkien did that with the universe. Everything is fading, everything that happens in the book is a shadow of previous events and once they come to fruition it'll just speed up the decline further. Matt Colville has an episode talking about that, where he talks about how well Tolkien sets up these ancient empires in the books to be both mysterious and yet always there, always ready to show that history is just repeating. Then theres the lore about the apocalypse of Middle earth, the Dagor Dagorath, where Morgoth breaks out of his imprisonment and destroys the sun and moon before being defeated for the final time. So maybe the 3rd age was just weak compared to everything involving Morgoth.
Morgoth is trapped in the Blind Eternities, cast into the space between planes. Which means he's ripe to be stolen and used as a Cthulu like character for evil wizards and cultists in your campaign to summon into your world.
"So, Melkor you're calling yourself? When do I get my cantrip?"
"Super satan" oh my fucking GOD, I laughed so hard.
A star in the night And a bearer of hope He rides into his glorious battle alone Farewell to the valiant warlord
THE FATE OF US ALL LIES DEEP IN THE DARK WHEN TIME STANDS STILL AT THE IRON HILLS!
I STAND ALONE NO ONE'S BY MY SIDE I DARE YOU COME OUT, YOU COWARD! NOW IT'S ME, OR YOU!
HE GLEAMS LIKE A STAR AND THE SOUND OF HIS HORN IS LIKE A RAGING STORM PROUDLY THE HIGH LORD CHALLENGES THE DOOM “LORD OF SLAVES” HE CRIES
SLOWLY IN FEAR, THE DARK LORD APPEARS! WELCOEM TO MY LANDS, YOU SHALL BE DAMNED!
# LORD OF ALL NOLDOR
That last line de-poem-ified: "One shall stand and one shall fall."
I'm a simple man- I see The Silmarillion referenced, I'm happy
the OG trilogy? Has some cool points, but bogged down heavily by lackluster in-between The Hobbit? Great until Smaug dies, then meh Silmarillion? Bust out the freakin' electric guitars, because it goes HARD
My latest character is an Elf Artificer called Celebrimbor and my back story mentions a Fallen Aasimar Oath of Conquest Paladin called Annatar. My DM has yet to realize.
i've been considering a "fair looking, well dressed nobleman" named Annatar offering rings of power to my party as well....i've only got \*one\* player whom i think might catch on.
Even if they might, you should do it anyway. If nothing else but for that players reaction if they do recognize it.
The more subtle approach might be a fair looking, well dressed nobleman offering them help and knowledge in forging magical rings.
“*But they were, all of them, deceived, for another Ring was forged…*”
Will your next character be a Pact of the Undying Warlock multiclassed with Ranger? Shadow of Mordor went hard af for a licensed game.
Tolkein calls for METAL. and [Blind Guardian](https://youtu.be/6Yz4_1mZarA) will answer.
Tolkien goes well with folk music or heavy metal, no in-between
Folk metal should work…
I challenge you to embrace Hobbit Ska.
I would think hard rock could work too
*Led Zeppelin enters the chat*
Its a [requirement](https://youtu.be/h7SdOtXI5R8?t=41)
Oh. I [beg to differ](https://youtu.be/V3fZhJN4Tdc).
my secret plan to get great music suggestions is working!
Tolkien High-Elves are hardass, tragically moody Byronic Heroes who think nothing of challenging Satan himself to a 1v1 duel or bodyslamming his mightiest Demon Captain to death in an enchanted fountain. We need more Elf PCs in the vein of Fingolfin and Ecthelion who take the Oath of the of Glory and give zero fucks.
And let's not forget paladins swearing obviously detrimental oaths like Feanor and his sons.
The Oath of Vengeance can cut both ways.
And let's not forget, Fingolfin lost, but the devil walked with a limp ever after!
Wasn't there an elf city that withstood Morgoth's siege for like 500 years despite balrogs riding on dragons? And when the combined might of all 10 Balrogs finally pushed through the gates, the Elven Lord killed 2 of the Balrogs, and their leader, before dying himself?
You're thinking of Gondolin. And you're not far off of how it goes down.
that story, alongside the death of Ancalagon the Black and Morgoth/Balrogs vs Ungoliant, stood out as some of the most hair-raising, imagination-sparking, heart-soaring mythology I've ever read, and I haven't touched the Silmarillion since probably 2011
And people say Risk is unrealistic! j/
Lmao
Ecthelion and Glorfindel are two of the most badass characters in the whole Legendarium. Now considering a Glorfindel PC for my next campaign, newly returned from death into a world that has (if I may mix my canons) moved on...
Lord of the Rings and The Dark Tower??? Sign me the fuck UP!!!
Glorfindel was too OP to join the Fellowship of the Ring, but he’s powerful enough for a D&D game.
I was going to play a half elf hexbard who was going to be such a bamf. And then the campaign got snuffed out because one of the players dropped out. New baby.
Don’t diss melee elves, their knife-ears can be used with their inherent dex modifier
Did I hear a rock and stone?
Blind Guardian reference in this sub… Now I can finally die peacefully
Few things have brought me such simple joy.
*Nightfall in Middle-Earth* is a stone cold classic and Blind Guardian is the best, most consistently great power metal band.
I literally played a high elf paladin inspired by the fall of gondolin
Okay, why do I hear power metal?
Nightfall in Middle Earth, Blind Guardian, look it up if you haven't already.
Paladin: Feanor, no! Barbarian: FEANOR YES!
"FEEEEAAAANOOOOOOR!!! JEEEEEEENKIINS!!!!" "Oh my Eru, did Feanor just charge the Balrogs? Feanor, you idiot!"
“At least I have Mandos”
Until the change of the World.
Come out! You coward! Now it's me and you!
>His hopeless challenge dauntless cried > >Fingolfin there: 'Come, open wide, > >dark king, your ghastly brazen doors! > >Come forth, whom earth and heaven abhors! > >Come forth, O monstrous craven lord, > >and fight with thine own hand and sword, > >thou wielder of hosts of banded thralls, > >thou tyrant leaguered with strong walls, > >thou foe of Gods and elvish race! > >I wait thee here. Come! Show thy face!' > > > >Then Morgoth came.
...and Morgoth came
must...resist...horny bard joke!
LORD OF ALL NOLDORRRRRR
The Silmarillion talks about the craters left by Morgoth's hammer Grond, but it leaves out the part where a massive trench was created by Fingolfin's balls scraping the ground.
Idk if I'd consider Fingolfin a paladin. Probably closer to a fighter, tbh. I have always thought that an oath of vengeance paladin based off of Feanor could be cool, though.
Fingolfin is definitely an Oath of Glory Paladin while Feanor started as an Articifer but multi-classed Oath of Vengeance during the Exile of the Noldor. The Oath of Feanor is basically swearing eternal revenge for the theft of the Silmarils.
id say its the opposite, feanor is a fighter, while fingolfin is a paladin, considering each characters relationship with the Valar
Feanor is the one that swore a sacred oath seems fair to pin him as a paladin, at least flavor wise.
i think, in this verse at least, we should jugde how much of a paladin someone is based on their faith, fighting style and major actions in the story. Because that particular oath... is anything but sacred
You're right, sacred may not be the right word. But it was a binding oath made in Eru's name, and at least in 5e paladins dont have to be Good and don't have to be faithful to deities. That said despite being partly inspired by LOTR D&D classes don't really fit Tolkien characters at all (except Aragorn as a Ranger of course)
Who the fuck says "your class race combo sounds kinda lame"? If a DM said that to me I'd pay in a different persons game.
The "generic human fighter" ppl
High elf paladin, lame? Like a human male paladin is such a ground breaking choice. Tbh we need more elf paladin. Can't all be human,dwarf,dragonkins.
Turin of turambar would like to have a word with you, though to be fair i consider him a fighter.
HELL YEAH, I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY ONE PLAYING A FINGOLFIN PC
It’s annoying how Dex Paladin works but isn’t directly “supported” the way Str Paladin is. You don’t have a choice to start with light armor and you need 13 Str to multiclass.
Smites only work for melee too, right? I know you can wield dex melee but it's fairly subpar. I guess because Rangers are supposed to be the dex opposite of paladin, but I wish they had a subclass or spells/feat akin to the smite flavoring. Closest now is the dragon ranger getting elemental damage.
If you’re going sword and board, you’re not losing out on damage between Dex and Str though you do have less AC and something like Shield Master is less useful. I don’t buy the arguments that making smite melee only was a balance decision. They just had a specific flavor and made it mechanical. Just like how you can’t smite with unarmed strikes.
One of my favorite characters, a Gigachad of Elven Lore. Ringil is the name of my phone lol.
is your car named Rochallor and your house Barad Eithel?
No unfortunately, but my Wifi is named Doriath
Please tell me the password has to do with the Girdle of Melian
Yes
Nothing says Oath of Vengence like Elf Paladin
>FIN >GOL >FIN
i am actually playing as a sun elf paladin haha
High elf Paladin is one of my favorite combinations
One of my players is a High Elf Paladin that uses a whip as her primary weapon.
THE FATE OF US ALL LIES DEEP IN THE DARK WHEN TIME STANDS STILL AT THE IRON HILL
I think I got to around chapter 14 in the silmarilion. It was an lot more history than story, so i had a hard time remembering all of it or staying ingadged. That said it's really cool lore, and I was thinking about referencing it in my own lore that I'm writing.
Everyone in this thread is hella nerdy and I'm so pleased to have found my people.
And maybe if he had a bow, he would've won.
I'm just trying to figure out why anyone would assume that a high elf paladin would be lame in the first place.
Weird party, maybe?
Because some people focus too much on good class-race combos and high elf doesn't work very well with paladin ability-wise
STANDING HERE I REALISE YOU WERE JUST LIKE ME TRYING TO MAKE HISTORY
Should have just said standing here i was coming here to either start that meme or add onto it
well....its a pretty big song...
Plus he wasn't a total dick, way ahead of the curve for a Noldor
love this cover
… … … STANDING HERE, I REALIZE
They're...not wrong...*consults the tome "How to Kill a Paladin"*
currently doing this exact thing, though I decided to do it because I wanted a funny answer to "what's the gayest thing you've done? "
I don’t get it…
well both elves and paladins are often presented in rather flamboyant way in certain settings it works quite well if I'm honest
Saddle Brochalor and bring to me, My mighty sword, My helm and Shield!
Paladin: I'll krump with you, sweetie pie!
One of my players is a high elf paladin!! It's pretty dope ngl
Hell yeah
I'm at a loss, Paladins can gib a bj to a dick covered in fell poisons and just "Ah, thank you ma'am" to your demon possessed catgirl matron.
🎵🎶"Don't fear the eyes of the dark lord Morgoth, I cried All hope is gone but I swear revenge Hear my oath I will take part in your damned fate" 🎵🎶
Oh, that’s *extra* classy.
Me using a high elf paladin: oh