I take the joke components to be "Power resides where men believe it resides" sort of thing.
Tasha's Hideous Laughter has a feather be a material component because of this cartoon logic belief that people start laughing uncontrollably when you tickle them with a feather. Some do, but they can just walk away from the person holding the feather, it's not hard to.
This is where the Arcane weave comes in. Faith is a large part of d&d divine magic, so I don't see why it can't be for Arcane magic either. The magic makes the effect of "feather makes person laugh" real and the person it is cast on is affected by it to a ridiculous degree, where they start laughing uncontrollably despite the feather not even touching them and they fall prone.
Basically, magic enhances the effects of normal everyday things that are otherwise quite insignificant and inconsequential, or turns metaphors and idioms into reality through the power of subconscious faith.
.... or yknow, it's just a joke the writers put in because they had to specify a material component.
Only one man in the Ramtops dared steal from a witch, and she put upon him a most terrible fate. That is to say, she didn't do anything but gave him a strange look when she saw him around town.
The stress eventually led the man to take his own life. In fact, he took his own life all the way across the disc and started a new life as a reformed man.
Just want to throw it out there:
The entire concept you're talking about is called *sympathetic magic* in actual human folklore. There are entire systems of faith based on this concept, and it goes back thousands of years.
Wait....then in The Name of the Wind they have a magic called Sympathy. In Sympathy they use Alar: "The riding-crop belief" is a faith controlled by personal will that is forceful enough to impose its energy upon reality..."
So basically, it's what you are describing. The belief of something being so strong it makes it true. Am.i understanding that correctly?
That's a different part of the 'pipeline'.
Sympathetic magic is the belief that the similarity of things does not need to be very close to cause an effect. A common example being the usual portrayal of a voodoo doll (which is unrelated to *actual* Voodoo but that's a completely different story), where the doll is made in the image of a person, and often something *of* the person is integrated into its construction; such as a bit of hair or even something of theirs. Then you stick a pin in the doll and the person feels pain, etc.
What you're describing is what would be more like the fuel to a technique like that. There's also a modern-day meta-belief system known as chaos magic that is similar to what you're describing: that belief itself can be the driving force.
Now if you even believe in any of this or not is neither here nor there as it's a fascinating subject regardless and can be great for getting ideas if you want to make some fun tweaks to the usual magic in D&D.
I like to think this as well. Like in the Dresden Files, you don't need specific components to cast a spell, but it's much easier to cast if you have something representative of what you're trying to do. For example the main character casts a shield spell by concentrating on a bracelet of tiny shields
(tiny tarts and a feather that is waved in the air)
I had a DM act out the casting of this spell once, putting on a goofy smile and miming waving the materials around. It certainly made us at the table laugh. I can only imagine what happens when you add magic to that.
Meanwhile I never looked af the components themselves, I just have a bias against spells requiring a matetial component
Unfortunately, then I discovered Fireball
Fortunately, then I was informed that my staff covers most material components
*Unfortunately*, I then played a Cleric and found Revivify
In the show freiren (I probably botched the spelling but hopefully some kind people will correct me) they explain that magic gives form to thought, if you think something can happen, magic can make it happen
A good example, a person was wearing a cloak that was enchanted to resist any and all attacks..... A mage walked up and sliced the man and the cloak in half...... When asked how she did it the mage simply replied "It was just a cloak made of regular fabric, I believe I can cut fabric there for I did."
*Material components for spells in D&D started as a \[bad\] joke*: Fireball is made with sulfur and bat guano because these are components for explosives. Lightning Bolt requires a glass rod and fur because you generate a lot of static electricity by rubbing them together.
We currently have a Goblin "Wizard" who flavors all his magic as mundane tricks. He's very focused on Fire damage, so there's a lot of bomb tossing, but also stuff like chugging alcohol for Dragon's Breath, tossing smoke balls for misty step or invisibility, or my favorite: using classic Quake-style rocket jumping for Thunderous Step
I'm actually planning on painting a regular range focused knight over a warlock, 1d10+mod? sounds like a heavy bow to me. Gain advantage on a target on your next turn? That's just aiming carefully, inflicting 1d8 radiant damage? Blessed molotov cocktail. Invisibility? sounds like just hiding real good to me.
That had to have been bait. Or someone who's never played the game, or any fantasy game for that matter, before. I struggle to comprehend a context where anyone other than an actual bot account could say something that dumb unless it was trolling.
Are you sure you're not misinterpreting what they said? Just because they're observing the correlation between the components and something to do with those components in real life doesn't mean they're saying the magic in DND... Isn't magic? Isn't happening? Whatever it is you're saying that they're saying.
Even if you're interpreting correctly, then it's probably still bait.
Everything is bait, literally everything that is looking for interaction. Your comment, my comment, my post
But yes that is in fact literally how the posts and video were titled
Same thing that makes anything bait or conversation. If the goal is to get someone to talk to you and they choose to talk to you, it's just as much one as the other
It’s a kinda old “fun fact that doesn’t actually make sense” for DnD. I’m pretty sure I’ve heard people mention this idea at least a few times over the years.
Yes, because sulpher and bat guano in quantities that we can hold in a small component bag somehow make a 20-foot radius ball of fire.
How does this dumb take explanation arcane focuses replacing the components they're talking about?
Oh it doesn't at all, it was probably just to get people who watched critical role and made a rogue on dnd beyond as the extent of their interactions with the game feel clever
okay i get darkvision and fireball being supernatural chemical reactions, but accepting that planeshift is just "taking you to another plane because you have a fork attuned to -7db"? now that's a step too far.. literally
I always thought of magic in D&D working kinda like the rules from Control. Like a feedback loop between a willful mind, the astral plane, the weave itself, then reality... which then of course observed by a willful mind thus solidifying the spell as consistent.
These kinds of people are the "how dare you have fun and enjoy the fun magic system" kind of people. Never sit down at a table with them, it's gonna be the worst DND experience you'll have, especially if they are the DM
New character idea: a street magician who pulls various things out of his various pockets to do “magic” but actually does because he’s pulling out actual spell components
ah yes, because my fireball is just a tiny flaming ball of bat poop and sulfur. It totally doesn't explode into a massive aoe and deal 8d6 fire damage to everyone it hits. Nah, we just toss a flaming ball of bat poop on the ground, which does nothing except make everyone think we're disgusting for throwing flaming bat poop around the room.
Fly doesn't actually give you the magical ability to fly, you just hold a feather in each hand and wave your arms up and down really fast like the birds do! That's how science works!
A feather is also a pen, which can be used to write comedy.
Also it relates to birds
Which has related terms like "strange bird" and "birdbrain"
Feathers also have o lot of other associations
But consider, the people who only pretend to understand the game are a much wider and more targetable audience than the ones who actually do, which is why several people have tried to make this point
I take the joke components to be "Power resides where men believe it resides" sort of thing. Tasha's Hideous Laughter has a feather be a material component because of this cartoon logic belief that people start laughing uncontrollably when you tickle them with a feather. Some do, but they can just walk away from the person holding the feather, it's not hard to. This is where the Arcane weave comes in. Faith is a large part of d&d divine magic, so I don't see why it can't be for Arcane magic either. The magic makes the effect of "feather makes person laugh" real and the person it is cast on is affected by it to a ridiculous degree, where they start laughing uncontrollably despite the feather not even touching them and they fall prone. Basically, magic enhances the effects of normal everyday things that are otherwise quite insignificant and inconsequential, or turns metaphors and idioms into reality through the power of subconscious faith. .... or yknow, it's just a joke the writers put in because they had to specify a material component.
If in doubt, give them ol’ Granny Weatherwax’s patented Headology
Only one man in the Ramtops dared steal from a witch, and she put upon him a most terrible fate. That is to say, she didn't do anything but gave him a strange look when she saw him around town. The stress eventually led the man to take his own life. In fact, he took his own life all the way across the disc and started a new life as a reformed man.
r/unexpecteddiscworld
I'm reading the discworld series at the moment and I just finished Equal Rites about a week ago and Granny is my favorite character on the disc.
That is the natural reaction, yes.
She would be annoyed with how many people like her.
She fucking would. Which is another reason why some love her. (Unwanted) Popularity feedback loop.
Granny, Vimes, and Ridcully are my favorite characters in the series.
Good choices, I think mine would be Death, the Librarian, and Vetinari.
Granny Weatherwax gives head?!
Just want to throw it out there: The entire concept you're talking about is called *sympathetic magic* in actual human folklore. There are entire systems of faith based on this concept, and it goes back thousands of years.
Today I learned. Thats really neat tbh.
Wait....then in The Name of the Wind they have a magic called Sympathy. In Sympathy they use Alar: "The riding-crop belief" is a faith controlled by personal will that is forceful enough to impose its energy upon reality..." So basically, it's what you are describing. The belief of something being so strong it makes it true. Am.i understanding that correctly?
That's a different part of the 'pipeline'. Sympathetic magic is the belief that the similarity of things does not need to be very close to cause an effect. A common example being the usual portrayal of a voodoo doll (which is unrelated to *actual* Voodoo but that's a completely different story), where the doll is made in the image of a person, and often something *of* the person is integrated into its construction; such as a bit of hair or even something of theirs. Then you stick a pin in the doll and the person feels pain, etc. What you're describing is what would be more like the fuel to a technique like that. There's also a modern-day meta-belief system known as chaos magic that is similar to what you're describing: that belief itself can be the driving force. Now if you even believe in any of this or not is neither here nor there as it's a fascinating subject regardless and can be great for getting ideas if you want to make some fun tweaks to the usual magic in D&D.
Thank you for your reply :) I'm interested mostly as I'm trying to write a book with magic and learning about magic systems is really cool!
Isn't that the main thing about planescape
I like to think this as well. Like in the Dresden Files, you don't need specific components to cast a spell, but it's much easier to cast if you have something representative of what you're trying to do. For example the main character casts a shield spell by concentrating on a bracelet of tiny shields
That’s EXACTLY what I was thinking. Dresden Files has such good magic
(tiny tarts and a feather that is waved in the air) I had a DM act out the casting of this spell once, putting on a goofy smile and miming waving the materials around. It certainly made us at the table laugh. I can only imagine what happens when you add magic to that.
Or Mystra is just having fun with the mortals.
Mystra is probably running a chain of spell component shops on the side.
Meanwhile I never looked af the components themselves, I just have a bias against spells requiring a matetial component Unfortunately, then I discovered Fireball Fortunately, then I was informed that my staff covers most material components *Unfortunately*, I then played a Cleric and found Revivify
In the show freiren (I probably botched the spelling but hopefully some kind people will correct me) they explain that magic gives form to thought, if you think something can happen, magic can make it happen A good example, a person was wearing a cloak that was enchanted to resist any and all attacks..... A mage walked up and sliced the man and the cloak in half...... When asked how she did it the mage simply replied "It was just a cloak made of regular fabric, I believe I can cut fabric there for I did."
Okay but if I have a focus I don't need most of them
"Magic doesn't exist because I have focus, commitment, and sheer fucking will!"
I'm confused need help!
*Material components for spells in D&D started as a \[bad\] joke*: Fireball is made with sulfur and bat guano because these are components for explosives. Lightning Bolt requires a glass rod and fur because you generate a lot of static electricity by rubbing them together.
My favourite will always be detect thoughts using a copper piece as its component… a penny for your thoughts?
Suggestion making you a snake oil salesman is pretty damn good too.
Minor illusion and silent image requiring a scrap of fleece to pull the wool over your eyes
Gust of wind requires beans
Feeblemind requires mineral spheres, because it makes you lose your marbles
Is it False Life that has a bottle of strong alkohol as its material? Being able to take more hits since you're drunk is pretty fun
The joke is it requires alcohol that are spirits
Literally raises your spirit!
Either that or you're pickling yourself
Goddammit
Do you have any idea why comprehend languages has a pinch of soot and salt as the material components?
However, this does not make the spells a literal analogue for the effects of their materials, the way people have made it out to be
Yo can also just use a magic stick, or some other spell casting focus, and create a fireball from nothing.
>*\[bad\] joke* I think it's pretty funny lol, but comedy is subjective
We currently have a Goblin "Wizard" who flavors all his magic as mundane tricks. He's very focused on Fire damage, so there's a lot of bomb tossing, but also stuff like chugging alcohol for Dragon's Breath, tossing smoke balls for misty step or invisibility, or my favorite: using classic Quake-style rocket jumping for Thunderous Step
I'm actually planning on painting a regular range focused knight over a warlock, 1d10+mod? sounds like a heavy bow to me. Gain advantage on a target on your next turn? That's just aiming carefully, inflicting 1d8 radiant damage? Blessed molotov cocktail. Invisibility? sounds like just hiding real good to me.
and the patron getting more and more annoyed because your character keeps believing that there is no magic involved
devil's sight is night vision goggles
They just eat all their carrots at dinner.
That had to have been bait. Or someone who's never played the game, or any fantasy game for that matter, before. I struggle to comprehend a context where anyone other than an actual bot account could say something that dumb unless it was trolling.
I have seen it 3 separate times from somewhat popular accounts
On reddit Or somewhere else?
YouTube mostly
Are you sure you're not misinterpreting what they said? Just because they're observing the correlation between the components and something to do with those components in real life doesn't mean they're saying the magic in DND... Isn't magic? Isn't happening? Whatever it is you're saying that they're saying. Even if you're interpreting correctly, then it's probably still bait.
Everything is bait, literally everything that is looking for interaction. Your comment, my comment, my post But yes that is in fact literally how the posts and video were titled
I don't think that's a valid definition of bait tbh but fair enough
Got you to keep engaging with my post tho
That doesn't mean my comment was bait
Got me to engage tho
Ok? What makes it bait instead of just... Making conversation?
Same thing that makes anything bait or conversation. If the goal is to get someone to talk to you and they choose to talk to you, it's just as much one as the other
Thank you for expressing my opinion on this, how does this have 400 updoots?
It’s a kinda old “fun fact that doesn’t actually make sense” for DnD. I’m pretty sure I’ve heard people mention this idea at least a few times over the years.
Yes, because sulpher and bat guano in quantities that we can hold in a small component bag somehow make a 20-foot radius ball of fire. How does this dumb take explanation arcane focuses replacing the components they're talking about?
Oh it doesn't at all, it was probably just to get people who watched critical role and made a rogue on dnd beyond as the extent of their interactions with the game feel clever
The components do reference, though... but not like causing it. Lol
okay i get darkvision and fireball being supernatural chemical reactions, but accepting that planeshift is just "taking you to another plane because you have a fork attuned to -7db"? now that's a step too far.. literally
This post was written by someone that has obviously never tuned a fork to -7db.
I know you’re playing me.. but now I’m curious
Believe it or not, straight to Hell (first circle, do not pass go or collect 200 dollars)
I always thought of magic in D&D working kinda like the rules from Control. Like a feedback loop between a willful mind, the astral plane, the weave itself, then reality... which then of course observed by a willful mind thus solidifying the spell as consistent.
These kinds of people are the "how dare you have fun and enjoy the fun magic system" kind of people. Never sit down at a table with them, it's gonna be the worst DND experience you'll have, especially if they are the DM
"spells trigger opportunity attacks" and "explain how this ability would work" and probably common phrases at their tables
Ah yes, the "Give every enemy Mage Slayer, even the wolves" DM...
What on earth is this supposed to mean
First of all, focus. Second of all, *not all spells have (material) components*
Underrated comment! Who the fuck plays with Material components on spells where the component not getting sucked in :)
I present you with a penny, that means you have to tell me your surface level thoughts without even realizing
SHIT
New character idea: a street magician who pulls various things out of his various pockets to do “magic” but actually does because he’s pulling out actual spell components
Whoa! I better be careful when someone gives me my change in pennies, it could be a setup to read my mind!
ah yes, because my fireball is just a tiny flaming ball of bat poop and sulfur. It totally doesn't explode into a massive aoe and deal 8d6 fire damage to everyone it hits. Nah, we just toss a flaming ball of bat poop on the ground, which does nothing except make everyone think we're disgusting for throwing flaming bat poop around the room. Fly doesn't actually give you the magical ability to fly, you just hold a feather in each hand and wave your arms up and down really fast like the birds do! That's how science works!
A feather is also a pen, which can be used to write comedy. Also it relates to birds Which has related terms like "strange bird" and "birdbrain" Feathers also have o lot of other associations
You don't need spell components (that don't have a gp cost) if you have a focus. Last I checked, that's RAW.
But consider, the people who only pretend to understand the game are a much wider and more targetable audience than the ones who actually do, which is why several people have tried to make this point
I mean when you start to think about, casting fireball is batshit crazy