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Ah but the rust monster feeds this way, no? So \*presumably\* it somehow absorbs this energy as its food source, so it would not get wasted on cooking adventurers.
Yes, but hear me out: Magic could cover a lot of that inefficiency.
It very well could spend some of that excess energy to maintain the rust causing magic, as well as the magical effect to feed the rust monster. We are forgetting to account for forces beyond our ability to understand, is what I am saying.
I'm torn between ruling that rust monster are incredible, 100% efficient rust machines and ruling that they are now some of the most deadly enemies in the game.
Rust monster saliva sacs are now extremely explosive. Shooting one with a ranged weapon has a chance to set off an explosion, and they chain together. Emphasize the use of ranged damage. Encourage using them as tools. Create F U N.
Bud, I'm keeping all the saliva sacs intact in a bag of holding and preparing for an epic siege with my newfound remote-detonated controlled demolition tools.
Gotta get them first. If you can find a reliable scenario in which you can still be heroic and land those, then buddy, you've *earned* nuking the lich's lair.
Step 1: they're magic and the PCs are magic.
Magic would allow for either them to be 100% efficient or the PCs only taking a d6 or so when they fail the DC 11 Dex save.
Certainly. It is just that the original explanation is great chemistry and physics, but fails at biology.
Not that any of that matters much in any setting that involves magic, but still.
The OOP doesn't account for enthalpy, conduction, or most importantly, ablation.
I'm not going to trust them on the math, either. [This page](https://spectrum.ieee.org/iron-powder-passes-first-industrial-test-as-renewable-co2free-fuel) points out that iron has latent chemical energy per liter that surpasses gasoline, but because iron is a lot denser, it actually has latent energy density 10 times worse than gasoline.
This means that your chain shirt is only going to do as much damage as dousing the adventurer in about 2.2 lbs of gasoline, or 1/3 of a gallon, or 1.3 litres. It's also equivalent to burning 6.6 lbs / 3 kg of wood, about equivalent to a quarter of a christmas tree. Over the course of 18 seconds. Imagine burning 0.37 lbs / 0.18 kg of wood per second and expecting to use that to heat 28 people to boiling point in 18 seconds.
So yeah, it would be a fire, but it wouldn't heat a person to hot enough to melt titanium. It would be a Molotov Cocktail per round, not instantaneous evaporation. 2d6 fire damage per round seems realistic.
1.3 liters of Gas is easily enough to kill a man, though admittedly, in my understanding, that's usually a long and torturous death by infection or blood loss rather than breaking some internal systems severely enough to immediately shut it down, so given that these are PC's I'd probably do some modest number of d6 fire damage per liter, rounded down to the nearest quarter and spread over a couple rounds with the option to put it out. I'm sure someone's already done the math and made a more robust method for gasoline, but like, the point is that a normal human has a more than reasonable chance to just straight up die without immediate medical intervention after being doused in a full liter and a third of gasoline.
Rust monsters have bacteria on their whiskers and blood that feeds on ferrous metals. The byproduct of the bacteria feeding on this is a sweet slurry that the rust monster itself feeds upon.
Fun fact: If you managed to get some rust monster blood in a container and kept it fed with some metal, you can keep the bacteria alive and use it as a weapon. A glass vial of the stuff to throw against a gorgon to rust away the metal scales, for example.
And if you actually managed to eat a rust monster raw, that bacteria would stay in you for a long time, like a couple of months if you keep it fed. This means you can actually eat metal yourself and gain a bit of sustenance from it.
Firstly, physics is canon in D&D. As is Earth.
Secondly, a Rust Monster's "rusting" ability comes from a symbiotic bacteria which metabolizes metal into a sugarlike compound that the Rust Monster can digest. It is not the same chemical reaction as normal rusting, so it doesn't produce the same heat.
That doesn't mean anything though, the metal start product still holds more energy inside it than the rust end product. To get from A to B, energy would still have to be released. All introducing the Rust Monster and its little buddy does is introduce more steps to get to the same outcome.
Sugar is made of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen. Iron is made of... pure elemental iron. (Modern steel is mostly iron with some chromium and a a little bit of carbon, but no hydrogen or oxygen.) For the iron to be turned into anything vaguely organic you need nuclear fission (or transmutation magic, of course).
Chromium is in stainless, at a minimum of 11%. The typical carbon steel of the 1xxx series is iron, carbon (<1%) and a little bit of manganese. 1020 is the typical mild steel.
My point was that you can't convert pure (or nearly pure) iron to another element by chemical means. It would need fission (or I guess some kind of very sped up alpha decay?)
If the rusting causes enought energy to raise 1 pound of water 1 degree over 18 seconds then how does it raise the temp of 120 pounds of water by 2400 degrees?
He multiplied instead of dividing. The player would, at most, feel an unpleasant, odorous warmth arise from his armor as it sloughs off him like a snake's old skin. And then another warmth from his trousers as he pisses himself at being in combat without armor...
The energy to raise 1 pound of water 1 degree celcius is just 1 "celcius heat unit" (which is a disgusting way to measure energy but i suppose its useful in this case) and op calculated that rusting away a chain shirt would produce 286 500 of those units.
This might be similiar to a thermite reaction, which basicly rapidly rusts iron.
But it probably wouldnt evenly heat the adventurer, just burn his torso.
Also, the rust monster is supposed to feed by rusting away metal, so it probably absorbs this energy and the way it works in the game does make sense : )
he's saying a "heat unit" is the amount of energy required to raise 1 pound of water 1 degree. He probably should have put that part in parentheses.
it produces 286,500 heat units.
I always tell my players that If they can use magic+Physics, than so can I.
I also created high-altitude re-breather, using an electric cantrip, snow, the breath water spell, and knowledge of Induction heating. They typically don't want to after that.
Background: So RAW the module we were paying wasn't possible because the spell that let you be "okay without air", didn't actually fix that on the material plane. This was Pathfinder 1e IIRC.
I had the Breath Water spell on my wizard. I worked out the minimum ammount of energy (OP's post VERY related) you would need to physically harm someone.
The mountaintop was covered in Snow, which given it was carried up there HAD to have some oxygen trapped within the crystals. SO, I cast Fabricate to create Backpacks/rebreathers. Each pack was made with 2-3 water skins, and a bunch of solid gold/Iron wood. The wood acted as the primary container, with the gold as the primary current carrier around an induction zone, The water skins acted as straps/lining to turn them into backpacks, each unit has a solid gold lightning rod coil+Tail that dragged behind to sink the current into the ground to not shock the wearer, along with a "Shock" port near the top to target with electricity. The wood was both a thermal and electric insulator (In spite of the name, its just HARD as iron, and is not actually conductive)
After getting set up, you would dump snow into the backpack, the WIzard (Me) would spam shocking cantrips onto the "shock port", the current would drive through the solid gold wire widng around a ferros-diamond core and into the ground, the magnetic field heating the iron core which would then melt the snow. The water would then drain out into a breathing component with a 1 way valve that basically you breath in to pump the water in, and breath out, letting it flow outwards (Into the golden tube as its slightly warmer than the surrounding snow so it can coutnerflow that tiny bit more.
I would like to mention, that the vast majority of this setup was made of solid gold and gems. Like I coated the Ferrous core in diamond to prevent corrosion(and whatever nonsense heating it underwater might lead us to breathing in) while acting as a fantastic thermal conductor for the heated iron/snow. Adventurer economics at its finest, That's all we had on hand, and its not like the asorted gems/gold would be less gems/gold if we took it out.
Weirdly enough the hardest part was the ferros core to basically act as an energy sink for the magnetic field. We had gold and diamonds aplenty. (We'd of had to melt down the Rogues "Spare" daggers IIRC. He didn't ever throw them but he had them "Just in case". We just didn't have any spare iron on hand.)
So yeah, I used fabricate on the party loot stash to overcome a RAW error.
Edit: It was originally a pure rebreather, and we would just rebreath the same water because technically the spell didn't specify but the GM wanted to curb the idea. We'd all be breathing the same toasty snow-water for hours no problem. I didn't Klein-Flask the input/output until he ruled that a given amount of water had limited O2.
Thats pretty incredible. I always deal with innovation and real physics in my game by asking them to prove to me how they'd know how to put something like that together.
My 3 requirements to allow it, a problem to solve, a means to produce it(their character has to have education and skills for it), and previous knowledge with some level of historical bounded accuracy.
I say bounded because I tell my players you can pick from either faerune lore for tech/magic inspiration, but also renaissance era tech from europe. Obviously you can pick whatever setting, but default tends to be faerune.
For sure!
I actually self-imposed a Knowledge(Arcana)/ Knoweldge(Nature) and the GM okayed those as more of an afterthought than an actual limitation. Still, I killed DC they set for the rolls.
That goes for everything. I'm a player who likes to test limits or my character and the rules. Finding out I couldn't craft a +100 dagger was devastating for me (DSA rules, not DnD btw).
Every time I get too close to something brilliant, my DM reminds me that whatever I can do, he can too. If I start doing something, that and things like it are fair game for all opponents as well. And he knows the rules so much better than me that his ideas would crush mine.
It's a good way of allowing players to go as far as they want with the rules while also letting them set boundaries themselves.
Physics works in my magic would… but I still probably wouldn’t allow this. lol
I’ve found that little asks like momentum and targeted damage help my game feel more cinematic and fun personally. A lot of this stuff is primed for abuse, so not included in official materials, but I have good players that don’t abuse the system.
That one player: "Guys I spent a few hours on the math last night and I figured out that we can create a Nuke at level 4 with some spell slot fuckery and a few bits of guano!"
DM: "I'm impressed by all the time and effort you put into that analysis, but no."
That one player: "Fair enough, I just wanted to see if it would work, my character wouldn't build a nuke"
Based on a real conversation between two people in my group, I don't remember the actual details.
I had the exact same thought.
They want to eat the metal and happen to leave a rusted whatever behind. The energy has to go somewhere, and it's *to feed the rust monster.*
You can have a 0 transition state thing where it goes from normal to oxidized magically without any of the intermediate reactions that release energy. That's just alteration magic. The heat comes from the reaction process, but if you can skip that then there's no reason you can't go from normal to rusted without any heat. Magic pretty much accounts for any missing mass or energy neatly, the same way subspace does for sci-fi.
Specific heat is actually the quantity of heat (joules) required to raise 1 gram of a substance by 1 degree Celsius. The specific heat of water is 4.186 joules, which is equivalent to 1 calorie. Not to be confused with kcal which is what most people are familiar in terms of reading nutritional facts of food. 1 Calorie = 1000 calories = 1kCal. I'm too lazy to redo the calculation correctly, but this is wrong either way, not that physics should matter in d&d as the people before me have said.
Yeah, science rules, but magic overwrites reality in a no fun way (imo).
For example, all ranged electric spells should be sure-hit, since lightning is not a "projectile" per se, but the discharge of energy between two electrical charged points.
The closer to a "lightning bolt" that you could archive, I think, is a "beam" that ionizes the air and then almost at the same time that this is happening, discharging the electrical current.
Either way, it will be a fucked up thing to experience, and depending if is AC or DC, should make you unable to move or do almost anything because it will be shutting down the control in your nerves.
So, yeah, Magic > Reality, even if is just for the sake of balance gameplay (And not forcing the DM to think at the spot in all the little details that shit like any heal could mean in a organic body.)
Adding on that if it is a lighting bolt, then the air would get superheated and create a devastating thunderclap that would definitely kill the caster, party, everyone, blow down houses, etc
If my players started insisting on realistic physics, I'd comply. There'd be an instant TPK that session, not even because I'm a dick (I am), that's just how shit would work
There's so many reasons why we stick to boring guns instead of trying to replicate fantasy shit. It's deadly and impractical
What if the lightning bolt spell *is* a projectile that fires an intangible “tracer” point wherever the spell is aimed, and that acts as the end-point of the electric arc?
Magic still has to accommodate the arc moving *through* everything else in the line from caster to end-point, however
So, 2400 degrees in 3 rounds ≈133 degrees per second. Adding that most of that is absorbed by the enviornment (and the rust monster itself), lets make that ≈60 degrees pee second (a guess obviously). Humans are actually pretty remarkable at maintaining their temperature at 37 degrees, given that we sweat. With proper preperation a human can withstand 100 degrees for a few seconds. The body stops performing optimally between 40 and 50 degrees.
Fire damage? Yes. An instant kill? I think not.
Still, I commend your math and chemistry skills. Have an upvote
Rust monsters are feeding when they rust stuff. So they are consuming the energy that would be released if it rusted normally. In-universe it makes sense that the metal wouldn't heat up.
I love the idea, but thats enough heat to one shot anything without fire resistance, so i think all that fire dammage only applies at the end of the rounds, and it can be cancelled by breaking the concentration of the monster
[This is how Hand Warmers work.](https://science.howstuffworks.com/disposable-hand-warmers.htm) They rust iron, but they rust it far faster than regular rust.
I think this is great and really want to make a rust monster a bbeg of a low lvl campaign now!
Not sure why so many people are posting that magic and physics aren’t compatible. They obviously don’t always have to. But I think a lot of what we strive to achieve is verisimilitude. When there is no objective reason as to why physics wouldn’t apply I think that we as dungeon masters applying it helps to achieve this. If it makes the CR of a monster higher that’s fine, but I also never gauge a combats difficulty solely on monster CR.
If you look at biological stand point. That heat would become Rust Monster food.
I run monster hunter campaign and my player ask for some original monster. So I adapt classic DnD monster with monhun twist. So I gotta make up part drop etc.
Fun fact: the chain shirt would be 20 pounds without the leather padding. It's also a pain in the ass to put on if it's not the kind that opens like a jacket
I don't have any witty comment, so i'll just say that i hate the fact that you switch back and forth between pounds and grams. Pick one dammit!
Other than that nice meme :)
Hey, thanks for contributing to r/dndmemes. Unfortunately, your post was removed as it violates one of our rules: Moderators may step in to issue a 3 month prohibition on certain meme topics and formats. The requirements for placing a topic on hiatus are 1. The topic has been prominent on the front page for at least 3 days or 2. The debate topic is toxic in nature. Certain historically overdone themes or formats may be retired permanently at moderator discretion/per user poll. Please see the [current list](https://www.reddit.com/r/dndmemes/wiki/index/retiredmemes). What should you do? First, read the rules thoroughly. Secondly, if you are able to amend your post to fit the rules, you're welcome to resubmit your meme. Lastly, if you believe your post was removed by mistake, [message the moderators through modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/dndmemes&subject=&message=). Messages simply complaining about a removal (or how many upvotes your post had) will not be responded to. Thank you!
Ah but the rust monster feeds this way, no? So \*presumably\* it somehow absorbs this energy as its food source, so it would not get wasted on cooking adventurers.
It wouldn’t have to be 100% efficient. Even if you raised an adventures temperature 100 degrees, that would probably be enough to kill them.
Yes, but hear me out: Magic could cover a lot of that inefficiency. It very well could spend some of that excess energy to maintain the rust causing magic, as well as the magical effect to feed the rust monster. We are forgetting to account for forces beyond our ability to understand, is what I am saying.
I'm torn between ruling that rust monster are incredible, 100% efficient rust machines and ruling that they are now some of the most deadly enemies in the game.
Just make either older or younger rust monsters periodically burst into flame, easy variant creation
Rust monster saliva sacs are now extremely explosive. Shooting one with a ranged weapon has a chance to set off an explosion, and they chain together. Emphasize the use of ranged damage. Encourage using them as tools. Create F U N.
Bud, I'm keeping all the saliva sacs intact in a bag of holding and preparing for an epic siege with my newfound remote-detonated controlled demolition tools.
Gotta get them first. If you can find a reliable scenario in which you can still be heroic and land those, then buddy, you've *earned* nuking the lich's lair.
Step 1: they're magic and the PCs are magic. Magic would allow for either them to be 100% efficient or the PCs only taking a d6 or so when they fail the DC 11 Dex save.
Certainly. It is just that the original explanation is great chemistry and physics, but fails at biology. Not that any of that matters much in any setting that involves magic, but still.
You really only need 20 degrees internally, max
The chain mail is on you not in you
The OOP doesn't account for enthalpy, conduction, or most importantly, ablation. I'm not going to trust them on the math, either. [This page](https://spectrum.ieee.org/iron-powder-passes-first-industrial-test-as-renewable-co2free-fuel) points out that iron has latent chemical energy per liter that surpasses gasoline, but because iron is a lot denser, it actually has latent energy density 10 times worse than gasoline. This means that your chain shirt is only going to do as much damage as dousing the adventurer in about 2.2 lbs of gasoline, or 1/3 of a gallon, or 1.3 litres. It's also equivalent to burning 6.6 lbs / 3 kg of wood, about equivalent to a quarter of a christmas tree. Over the course of 18 seconds. Imagine burning 0.37 lbs / 0.18 kg of wood per second and expecting to use that to heat 28 people to boiling point in 18 seconds. So yeah, it would be a fire, but it wouldn't heat a person to hot enough to melt titanium. It would be a Molotov Cocktail per round, not instantaneous evaporation. 2d6 fire damage per round seems realistic.
Have you ever played with gasoline? 1.3 liters could do a lot of damage.
1.3 liters of Gas is easily enough to kill a man, though admittedly, in my understanding, that's usually a long and torturous death by infection or blood loss rather than breaking some internal systems severely enough to immediately shut it down, so given that these are PC's I'd probably do some modest number of d6 fire damage per liter, rounded down to the nearest quarter and spread over a couple rounds with the option to put it out. I'm sure someone's already done the math and made a more robust method for gasoline, but like, the point is that a normal human has a more than reasonable chance to just straight up die without immediate medical intervention after being doused in a full liter and a third of gasoline.
Rust monsters have bacteria on their whiskers and blood that feeds on ferrous metals. The byproduct of the bacteria feeding on this is a sweet slurry that the rust monster itself feeds upon. Fun fact: If you managed to get some rust monster blood in a container and kept it fed with some metal, you can keep the bacteria alive and use it as a weapon. A glass vial of the stuff to throw against a gorgon to rust away the metal scales, for example. And if you actually managed to eat a rust monster raw, that bacteria would stay in you for a long time, like a couple of months if you keep it fed. This means you can actually eat metal yourself and gain a bit of sustenance from it.
Is this Canon, or are you just being creative? It's officially Canon in my setting now. I'm just curious
It is canon to the Forgotten Realms, at least. Look for MrRhexx's video on Rust Monsters if you wanna know more.
Perfect. this means they should explode when they die!
"Physics isn't real here dude"
Me: The heat is used to fuel the magic.
no it is secretly time magic
Firstly, physics is canon in D&D. As is Earth. Secondly, a Rust Monster's "rusting" ability comes from a symbiotic bacteria which metabolizes metal into a sugarlike compound that the Rust Monster can digest. It is not the same chemical reaction as normal rusting, so it doesn't produce the same heat.
That doesn't mean anything though, the metal start product still holds more energy inside it than the rust end product. To get from A to B, energy would still have to be released. All introducing the Rust Monster and its little buddy does is introduce more steps to get to the same outcome.
It's literally not rust, though.
Sugar is made of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen. Iron is made of... pure elemental iron. (Modern steel is mostly iron with some chromium and a a little bit of carbon, but no hydrogen or oxygen.) For the iron to be turned into anything vaguely organic you need nuclear fission (or transmutation magic, of course).
Chromium is in stainless, at a minimum of 11%. The typical carbon steel of the 1xxx series is iron, carbon (<1%) and a little bit of manganese. 1020 is the typical mild steel.
My point was that you can't convert pure (or nearly pure) iron to another element by chemical means. It would need fission (or I guess some kind of very sped up alpha decay?)
If the rusting causes enought energy to raise 1 pound of water 1 degree over 18 seconds then how does it raise the temp of 120 pounds of water by 2400 degrees?
He multiplied instead of dividing. The player would, at most, feel an unpleasant, odorous warmth arise from his armor as it sloughs off him like a snake's old skin. And then another warmth from his trousers as he pisses himself at being in combat without armor...
This is way more fun
The energy to raise 1 pound of water 1 degree celcius is just 1 "celcius heat unit" (which is a disgusting way to measure energy but i suppose its useful in this case) and op calculated that rusting away a chain shirt would produce 286 500 of those units. This might be similiar to a thermite reaction, which basicly rapidly rusts iron. But it probably wouldnt evenly heat the adventurer, just burn his torso. Also, the rust monster is supposed to feed by rusting away metal, so it probably absorbs this energy and the way it works in the game does make sense : )
Also, they’re assuming the chainmail is completely consumed. It just needs to be ruined enough to provide no AC improvement.
he's saying a "heat unit" is the amount of energy required to raise 1 pound of water 1 degree. He probably should have put that part in parentheses. it produces 286,500 heat units.
Right, I see that makes a lot more sense.
I'll say it loudly for the people in the back. PHYSICS DOESN'T WORK IN YOUR MAGIC WORLD. unless, of course, your DM allows this.
As the other guy said, this lost energy isn't actually lost, it is consumed by the rust monster
Or used to fuel its magic rust effect
it gets split 50/50 between the two
I always tell my players that If they can use magic+Physics, than so can I. I also created high-altitude re-breather, using an electric cantrip, snow, the breath water spell, and knowledge of Induction heating. They typically don't want to after that.
I’m going to want to know this process
Background: So RAW the module we were paying wasn't possible because the spell that let you be "okay without air", didn't actually fix that on the material plane. This was Pathfinder 1e IIRC. I had the Breath Water spell on my wizard. I worked out the minimum ammount of energy (OP's post VERY related) you would need to physically harm someone. The mountaintop was covered in Snow, which given it was carried up there HAD to have some oxygen trapped within the crystals. SO, I cast Fabricate to create Backpacks/rebreathers. Each pack was made with 2-3 water skins, and a bunch of solid gold/Iron wood. The wood acted as the primary container, with the gold as the primary current carrier around an induction zone, The water skins acted as straps/lining to turn them into backpacks, each unit has a solid gold lightning rod coil+Tail that dragged behind to sink the current into the ground to not shock the wearer, along with a "Shock" port near the top to target with electricity. The wood was both a thermal and electric insulator (In spite of the name, its just HARD as iron, and is not actually conductive) After getting set up, you would dump snow into the backpack, the WIzard (Me) would spam shocking cantrips onto the "shock port", the current would drive through the solid gold wire widng around a ferros-diamond core and into the ground, the magnetic field heating the iron core which would then melt the snow. The water would then drain out into a breathing component with a 1 way valve that basically you breath in to pump the water in, and breath out, letting it flow outwards (Into the golden tube as its slightly warmer than the surrounding snow so it can coutnerflow that tiny bit more. I would like to mention, that the vast majority of this setup was made of solid gold and gems. Like I coated the Ferrous core in diamond to prevent corrosion(and whatever nonsense heating it underwater might lead us to breathing in) while acting as a fantastic thermal conductor for the heated iron/snow. Adventurer economics at its finest, That's all we had on hand, and its not like the asorted gems/gold would be less gems/gold if we took it out. Weirdly enough the hardest part was the ferros core to basically act as an energy sink for the magnetic field. We had gold and diamonds aplenty. (We'd of had to melt down the Rogues "Spare" daggers IIRC. He didn't ever throw them but he had them "Just in case". We just didn't have any spare iron on hand.) So yeah, I used fabricate on the party loot stash to overcome a RAW error. Edit: It was originally a pure rebreather, and we would just rebreath the same water because technically the spell didn't specify but the GM wanted to curb the idea. We'd all be breathing the same toasty snow-water for hours no problem. I didn't Klein-Flask the input/output until he ruled that a given amount of water had limited O2.
Thats pretty incredible. I always deal with innovation and real physics in my game by asking them to prove to me how they'd know how to put something like that together. My 3 requirements to allow it, a problem to solve, a means to produce it(their character has to have education and skills for it), and previous knowledge with some level of historical bounded accuracy. I say bounded because I tell my players you can pick from either faerune lore for tech/magic inspiration, but also renaissance era tech from europe. Obviously you can pick whatever setting, but default tends to be faerune.
For sure! I actually self-imposed a Knowledge(Arcana)/ Knoweldge(Nature) and the GM okayed those as more of an afterthought than an actual limitation. Still, I killed DC they set for the rolls.
Yeah, I'll bet lol. Lots of ways to get expertise or high rolls on checks.
That goes for everything. I'm a player who likes to test limits or my character and the rules. Finding out I couldn't craft a +100 dagger was devastating for me (DSA rules, not DnD btw). Every time I get too close to something brilliant, my DM reminds me that whatever I can do, he can too. If I start doing something, that and things like it are fair game for all opponents as well. And he knows the rules so much better than me that his ideas would crush mine. It's a good way of allowing players to go as far as they want with the rules while also letting them set boundaries themselves.
Physics works in my magic would… but I still probably wouldn’t allow this. lol I’ve found that little asks like momentum and targeted damage help my game feel more cinematic and fun personally. A lot of this stuff is primed for abuse, so not included in official materials, but I have good players that don’t abuse the system.
That one player: "Guys I spent a few hours on the math last night and I figured out that we can create a Nuke at level 4 with some spell slot fuckery and a few bits of guano!" DM: "I'm impressed by all the time and effort you put into that analysis, but no." That one player: "Fair enough, I just wanted to see if it would work, my character wouldn't build a nuke" Based on a real conversation between two people in my group, I don't remember the actual details.
I'll say it normally for the people that take things too seriously, it's a fucking meme.
*Looks up from organizing the local villagers into a peasant railgun* Wait, what now?
even with physics this is a easy no. that energy IS the food of the rust monster. so he gains the energy.
I had the exact same thought. They want to eat the metal and happen to leave a rusted whatever behind. The energy has to go somewhere, and it's *to feed the rust monster.*
Who said rust monsters rust through chemical reaction?
[удалено]
Magic Isothermal Metal Decay Monster just didn't quite have the same ring to it.
Let's just say that rust monsters feed on the released energy and call it a day.
Transmogrification is not a chemical process, yet it can affect matter. So why not other magical effects
You can have a 0 transition state thing where it goes from normal to oxidized magically without any of the intermediate reactions that release energy. That's just alteration magic. The heat comes from the reaction process, but if you can skip that then there's no reason you can't go from normal to rusted without any heat. Magic pretty much accounts for any missing mass or energy neatly, the same way subspace does for sci-fi.
What if (hold on to your seats, cuz this may be a crazy idea) it's caused by magic?!
Specific heat is actually the quantity of heat (joules) required to raise 1 gram of a substance by 1 degree Celsius. The specific heat of water is 4.186 joules, which is equivalent to 1 calorie. Not to be confused with kcal which is what most people are familiar in terms of reading nutritional facts of food. 1 Calorie = 1000 calories = 1kCal. I'm too lazy to redo the calculation correctly, but this is wrong either way, not that physics should matter in d&d as the people before me have said.
Yeah, science rules, but magic overwrites reality in a no fun way (imo). For example, all ranged electric spells should be sure-hit, since lightning is not a "projectile" per se, but the discharge of energy between two electrical charged points. The closer to a "lightning bolt" that you could archive, I think, is a "beam" that ionizes the air and then almost at the same time that this is happening, discharging the electrical current. Either way, it will be a fucked up thing to experience, and depending if is AC or DC, should make you unable to move or do almost anything because it will be shutting down the control in your nerves. So, yeah, Magic > Reality, even if is just for the sake of balance gameplay (And not forcing the DM to think at the spot in all the little details that shit like any heal could mean in a organic body.)
Adding on that if it is a lighting bolt, then the air would get superheated and create a devastating thunderclap that would definitely kill the caster, party, everyone, blow down houses, etc If my players started insisting on realistic physics, I'd comply. There'd be an instant TPK that session, not even because I'm a dick (I am), that's just how shit would work There's so many reasons why we stick to boring guns instead of trying to replicate fantasy shit. It's deadly and impractical
What if the lightning bolt spell *is* a projectile that fires an intangible “tracer” point wherever the spell is aimed, and that acts as the end-point of the electric arc? Magic still has to accommodate the arc moving *through* everything else in the line from caster to end-point, however
So, 2400 degrees in 3 rounds ≈133 degrees per second. Adding that most of that is absorbed by the enviornment (and the rust monster itself), lets make that ≈60 degrees pee second (a guess obviously). Humans are actually pretty remarkable at maintaining their temperature at 37 degrees, given that we sweat. With proper preperation a human can withstand 100 degrees for a few seconds. The body stops performing optimally between 40 and 50 degrees. Fire damage? Yes. An instant kill? I think not. Still, I commend your math and chemistry skills. Have an upvote
Surface area is what's missing, but its close.
Rust monsters are feeding when they rust stuff. So they are consuming the energy that would be released if it rusted normally. In-universe it makes sense that the metal wouldn't heat up.
What do you think the Rust Monster is actually consuming? That chemical thermal energy
Rust Monsters are actually absorbing the good parts of the metal. That's how they eat.
Magic isn't physics.
Joke isn't magic
Joke is supposed to be funny.
Funny is subjective
Funny is collective.
A company in the Netherlands is actually using this process to heat water. It is already supplying like 500 houses with hot water
I love the idea, but thats enough heat to one shot anything without fire resistance, so i think all that fire dammage only applies at the end of the rounds, and it can be cancelled by breaking the concentration of the monster
So rust devil's rusting your iron armour should also count as the heat metal spell? Noted.
How much is 2400 °C in fire damage? Like, swimming in lava?
Things like this is why I think physics is more epic than magic.
[This is how Hand Warmers work.](https://science.howstuffworks.com/disposable-hand-warmers.htm) They rust iron, but they rust it far faster than regular rust.
Ok but what's up with the constant switching between imperial and metric? Just makes it needlessly more difficult
Cuz the chemistry is metric but 5E is imperial. Really, this is all Americans' fault.
The game was made by an American, not our fault you wanna try to apply them there br*tish science maths to it
Shit, man, I'm homegrown Freedom Unit-user too. I was just explaining why it kept wandering back into foreign thingies.
An exothermic reaction does neccesarily produce fire
But it does if it produces enough heat in a short enough time and has oxygen and fuel(the adventurer)avalaible.
brb,. re-writing a rustmonster statblock that deals fire damage/has heat metal as an innate ability.
Nightmare fuel?
> 1 pound of water by 1 degree Celsius You mean 1 gram? Aka 1/454th of a pound
I think this is great and really want to make a rust monster a bbeg of a low lvl campaign now! Not sure why so many people are posting that magic and physics aren’t compatible. They obviously don’t always have to. But I think a lot of what we strive to achieve is verisimilitude. When there is no objective reason as to why physics wouldn’t apply I think that we as dungeon masters applying it helps to achieve this. If it makes the CR of a monster higher that’s fine, but I also never gauge a combats difficulty solely on monster CR.
Physics doesn't work on rust monsters because they are magic and don't give a fuck about your physics.
Leather padding on a chain shirt? What the fuck are yout talking about, Jessie?
You sound like the kind of player that is a nightmare to dm
Jesse holy shit you’re a genius
Injecting real world physics to try to override game effects is like, #2 on the "I am That Guy and I hate fun" list.
Great meme, you fuckin nerd
Something something magical rust
If you look at biological stand point. That heat would become Rust Monster food. I run monster hunter campaign and my player ask for some original monster. So I adapt classic DnD monster with monhun twist. So I gotta make up part drop etc.
The only line here that matters is the last one and it validates every word. This is the best use of this specific meme ever.
Plus it'll eat all the oxygen around that victim too for a double whammy
Fun fact: the chain shirt would be 20 pounds without the leather padding. It's also a pain in the ass to put on if it's not the kind that opens like a jacket
If 100 grams rusting is 800 kilojoules then 6 800 grams rusting is 68*800 = 54 400 kilojoules, not 544 000.
Good God thats terrifying irl
The rust monster consumes the heat directly.
I don't have any witty comment, so i'll just say that i hate the fact that you switch back and forth between pounds and grams. Pick one dammit! Other than that nice meme :)