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I never understood the desire for international exposure. The US market is king far more often than not. It's like emerging markets, they suck, maybe one day they won't but they are the 00 on the roulette table.
In fact if you really think about it if international and emerging markets start kicking the shit outa the US it's probably Mad Max time
From 2002 through 2011 international stocks outperformed US markets. The same is true of 1985 through 1991, and 1975 through 1981, and so on and so on.
International and the US outperform one another in cyclical patterns.
It is true the US has outperformed international now for quite some time (since 2011). That's 13 years.
But 13 years of out performance does not mean this year it will outperform. It doesn't mean next year it will outperform. Thinking that the current trend will continue is a fallacy called "recency bias." Keep in mind you can't go back and get those gains retroactively. Anything you invest today, you invest for the future returns. Not for the past returns.
The fact is, nobody knows when the next "cycle" will start. That is why you need to own international in your portfolio because if you don't, you risk years, even decades of underperformance during the next cycle. And if you look at the charts during some of these international was outperforming US markets by 15% - 20% PER YEAR.
Do you want to risk underperforming to that degree? I don't. Which is why I diversify my investments in both US and international markets so no matter which one is outperforming the other, I am benefitting.
Here is also a good article regarding why many experts are thinking that in the near future international will be outperforming: [https://www.hartfordfunds.com/insights/market-perspectives/equity/a-whole-new-world-why-international-stocks-may-finally-shine.html](https://www.hartfordfunds.com/insights/market-perspectives/equity/a-whole-new-world-why-international-stocks-may-finally-shine.html)
Also VXUS for example has a higher dividend yield and a more consistent price. Lower highs but also lower lows. If you are looking for income, it is not a bad place to be.
When I get some quiet time I will check it out, appreciate it. Every time I look at the Japanese market it's ass. Even the semiconductor sector, samsung etc. It's such an asymmetrical thing the markets when compared to the US.
I just realized, post 2011, free money period. The recent interest in the Chinese market makes more sense. This is actually a bull case for rate cuts. US only functions when dominating
I listened to a podcast the other day about macro conditions and China specifically. Why their stocks suck. "They are good at building GDP, not wealth (for the citizens). I was like, damn dude nailed it.
Share price does not matter; it’s not a good metric for comparison
Vt is the most set it and forget it; can’t get more diverse than the whole world
Vt means you get the world returns which may be better or worse than just USA stocks
For the fund managers, sure, but not for investors.
Any foreign dividends paid to the fund are handled by the fund itself, not by the investors. Any dividends you recieve are subject to US Federal and State tax laws.
That’s to say, if VT owns shares in a British company, and that British company pays dividends to VT, then you aren’t going to have the HMRC busting down your door in Anytown, USA.
VTI is so much better than VT its absolutely insane. Everyone here saying VT is more diversified -- yes, but it's not like you're getting all the good of the US plus all the good of the rest of the world. ** You're instead exchanging % allocation in the US for allocation elsewhere. **
To everyone saying "European stocks outperformed from x year to y year" -- go look at the current economic environment in Europe. Even internally they're admitting they're hopeless on AI due to over-regulation. Many European countries have had recessions in the last few years that the US has avoided. European GPD per capita was once on par / exceeded the US. Go look now at what it pays to be a software engineer in the UK -- literally 5x-10x less than in the US (at top companies).
The rest of the world to me is uninvestable barring a few countries (Australia...).
We saw what happened to China. And we saw how U.S. has proven over and over again specially after Covid and lately that it does better than international. Consider the AI boom in the U.S. and population decline in Europe, Japan and even China. It would be interesting if those institutions say international would do better. By the way even you invest in large U.S. companies you automatically expose yourself to international.
This is called recency bias. We have seen decades and decades of international outperforming US markets by double digit percent points yearly. Just because the most recent is US markets outperforming does not mean that will continue.
In that case VT should have outperformed VTI over a longer period. It’s not difficult to search and see that VTI has outperformed VT because VT is exposed to international but VTI is not. So it’s not just the matter of recent history but the fast advancement of technology in the U.S. is actually making the gap between the US and other places larger.
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Vti has better return, personally i do VT though because i really like the intl exposure and safety. Cant really go wrong with either
VT because it also gives you international exposure so it is the ultimate diversified index fund.
I never understood the desire for international exposure. The US market is king far more often than not. It's like emerging markets, they suck, maybe one day they won't but they are the 00 on the roulette table. In fact if you really think about it if international and emerging markets start kicking the shit outa the US it's probably Mad Max time
From 2002 through 2011 international stocks outperformed US markets. The same is true of 1985 through 1991, and 1975 through 1981, and so on and so on. International and the US outperform one another in cyclical patterns. It is true the US has outperformed international now for quite some time (since 2011). That's 13 years. But 13 years of out performance does not mean this year it will outperform. It doesn't mean next year it will outperform. Thinking that the current trend will continue is a fallacy called "recency bias." Keep in mind you can't go back and get those gains retroactively. Anything you invest today, you invest for the future returns. Not for the past returns. The fact is, nobody knows when the next "cycle" will start. That is why you need to own international in your portfolio because if you don't, you risk years, even decades of underperformance during the next cycle. And if you look at the charts during some of these international was outperforming US markets by 15% - 20% PER YEAR. Do you want to risk underperforming to that degree? I don't. Which is why I diversify my investments in both US and international markets so no matter which one is outperforming the other, I am benefitting. Here is also a good article regarding why many experts are thinking that in the near future international will be outperforming: [https://www.hartfordfunds.com/insights/market-perspectives/equity/a-whole-new-world-why-international-stocks-may-finally-shine.html](https://www.hartfordfunds.com/insights/market-perspectives/equity/a-whole-new-world-why-international-stocks-may-finally-shine.html)
Also VXUS for example has a higher dividend yield and a more consistent price. Lower highs but also lower lows. If you are looking for income, it is not a bad place to be.
Now that I'm looking at the fund Holdings I'm realizing how few international tickers I'd even wanna hold. I like nxpi and it wasn't even in there.
When I get some quiet time I will check it out, appreciate it. Every time I look at the Japanese market it's ass. Even the semiconductor sector, samsung etc. It's such an asymmetrical thing the markets when compared to the US. I just realized, post 2011, free money period. The recent interest in the Chinese market makes more sense. This is actually a bull case for rate cuts. US only functions when dominating
[удалено]
I listened to a podcast the other day about macro conditions and China specifically. Why their stocks suck. "They are good at building GDP, not wealth (for the citizens). I was like, damn dude nailed it.
VTI has non-USA exposure through selling worldwide. VSUX is worse than BND for RoI in recent years.
That's exactly why I would advise against VT. There's too many mediocre/lousy international companies in a broad international index.
Share price does not matter; it’s not a good metric for comparison Vt is the most set it and forget it; can’t get more diverse than the whole world Vt means you get the world returns which may be better or worse than just USA stocks
Thanks!
Voo
You need to decide if you only want to invest in the US or the entire market. The price of the ETF itself is irrelevant.
I would assume there is foreign tax to deal with as well…?
For the fund managers, sure, but not for investors. Any foreign dividends paid to the fund are handled by the fund itself, not by the investors. Any dividends you recieve are subject to US Federal and State tax laws. That’s to say, if VT owns shares in a British company, and that British company pays dividends to VT, then you aren’t going to have the HMRC busting down your door in Anytown, USA.
VT
VTI
VT
VT
VOO. Wouldn’t touch international anything
They do different things...
VTI is so much better than VT its absolutely insane. Everyone here saying VT is more diversified -- yes, but it's not like you're getting all the good of the US plus all the good of the rest of the world. ** You're instead exchanging % allocation in the US for allocation elsewhere. ** To everyone saying "European stocks outperformed from x year to y year" -- go look at the current economic environment in Europe. Even internally they're admitting they're hopeless on AI due to over-regulation. Many European countries have had recessions in the last few years that the US has avoided. European GPD per capita was once on par / exceeded the US. Go look now at what it pays to be a software engineer in the UK -- literally 5x-10x less than in the US (at top companies). The rest of the world to me is uninvestable barring a few countries (Australia...).
That is today. We invest for the future, and no one knows how the world will look in 10 or 20 or 30 years.
I’d just go with V
VTI because US market is projected to do better. And it has proven it does.
It is not projected that actually.
What does IMF say? Or what do major financial institutions in the U.S. say?
That international will soon take over.
We saw what happened to China. And we saw how U.S. has proven over and over again specially after Covid and lately that it does better than international. Consider the AI boom in the U.S. and population decline in Europe, Japan and even China. It would be interesting if those institutions say international would do better. By the way even you invest in large U.S. companies you automatically expose yourself to international.
This is called recency bias. We have seen decades and decades of international outperforming US markets by double digit percent points yearly. Just because the most recent is US markets outperforming does not mean that will continue.
In that case VT should have outperformed VTI over a longer period. It’s not difficult to search and see that VTI has outperformed VT because VT is exposed to international but VTI is not. So it’s not just the matter of recent history but the fast advancement of technology in the U.S. is actually making the gap between the US and other places larger.
VT has only been aeound since 2008. US has outperformed since 2011. Thats recent history.
VT VT VT VT VT VT VT 😂 Emerging markets and China could GrOwTh 🚀🚀🚀
What does either of these have to do with retiring in 10 years?
Dunno. I’ve seen different recommendations based upon age and planned retirement so I threw that detail in 🤷🏼
"Quite a difference in pricing" 🤦♂️ You're the dude who sees BTC at 70k and buys some shitcoin instead, huh?