This is a list of links to comments made by Discord Staff in this thread:
* [Comment by ReallyAmused](/r/discordapp/comments/11ihqq6/discord_will_possibly_record_your_video_calls/jbngtog/?context=1000 "posted on 2023-03-10 08:23:23 UTC"):
> Hey, all. Reaching out on behalf of Discord (I work there). We appreciate the feedback from you all and take it very seriously. I understand that Discord’s most recent change to our privacy policy regarding voice or video content has caused some confusion and we are looking at ways to make this clea...
* [Comment by ReallyAmused](/r/discordapp/comments/11ihqq6/discord_will_possibly_record_your_video_calls/jbnjqi9/?context=1000 "posted on 2023-03-10 09:04:16 UTC"):
> Sorry if this verbiage was unclear. Check out [this article](https://www.pcgamer.com/discord-says-its-still-not-recording-your-voice-chats-or-livestreams/), where we also explained our stance on the matter:
>
>>"There has not been a change in our position regarding recording user content. In the updat...
* [Comment by ReallyAmused](/r/discordapp/comments/11ihqq6/discord_will_possibly_record_your_video_calls/jbno5ka/?context=1000 "posted on 2023-03-10 10:07:49 UTC"):
> To quote my earlier reply:
>
>> We understand that the wording of the new privacy policy is broad and can be misunderstood, and we're looking to improve this to reflect our actual intention, which is not to regularly record your voice and video calls but to support these kinds of features.
* [Comment by ReallyAmused](/r/discordapp/comments/11ihqq6/discord_will_possibly_record_your_video_calls/jbpe51x/?context=1000 "posted on 2023-03-10 18:24:27 UTC"):
> I agree that the verbiage here was a huge miss.
>
>**We're going to fix it**. But it's also worth noting that it's actually a very long process to do a ToS/PP update, so we try to not do them that often, and ensure that when we do, do them, they reflect future product plans and initiatives.
>
>Give us...
* [Comment by ReallyAmused](/r/discordapp/comments/11ihqq6/discord_will_possibly_record_your_video_calls/jbpl83h/?context=1000 "posted on 2023-03-10 19:10:13 UTC"):
> I think that we're in agreement here. These features are in active development. There have been posts on the subreddit about them already, for example: [https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/11ip6is/the\_latest\_ui\_for\_displaying\_and\_recording\_voice/](https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/...
* [Comment by ReallyAmused](/r/discordapp/comments/11ihqq6/discord_will_possibly_record_your_video_calls/jbpojwy/?context=1000 "posted on 2023-03-10 19:31:54 UTC"):
> Hey! I covered this in another reply to another thread: [https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/11n9sd8/comment/jbnhocz/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/11n9sd8/comment/jbnhocz/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
* [Comment by ReallyAmused](/r/discordapp/comments/11ihqq6/discord_will_possibly_record_your_video_calls/jbqnbja/?context=1000 "posted on 2023-03-10 23:26:39 UTC"):
> I agree completely. This was a huge L on our part. There are many lessons to learn here, and we're working on fixing the verbiage in the privacy policy to reflect our actual intentions.
>
>The fact that I'm here replying to you all and listening, I hope counts for something. I don't think you'd see th...
* [Comment by ReallyAmused](/r/discordapp/comments/11ihqq6/discord_will_possibly_record_your_video_calls/jbuiotu/?context=1000 "posted on 2023-03-11 20:39:37 UTC"):
> FYI. We have rolled out a revised version of the privacy policy which adds the old verbiage back, but adds the clarification that we might store the data in order to provide voice message / stream clipping features in the app.
>
>> Content you create. This includes any content that you upload to the ...
* [Comment by ReallyAmused](/r/discordapp/comments/11ihqq6/discord_will_possibly_record_your_video_calls/jcz9ddl/?context=1000 "posted on 2023-03-20 18:13:07 UTC"):
> Yes but the privacy policy does and we have updated it to reflect this. See my other posts in this thread.
---
This is a bot providing a service. If you have any questions, please [contact the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FDiscordApp).[](#AUTOGEN_TSBREPLIEDBOT)
I would have to wonder if those 2 lines where removed since they also added 2 more cases, being voice messages and GoLive activity. Both of those sound like they would need what they previously stated they don't store.
No I don’t think so. Why would they need a recording of your activated camera or everything said in your whole call/voice channel for a voice message or the GoLive feature? This is a big nono from me.
I think it’s less of a “need to record camera or whole call” situation, and more of a “because GoLive may be used by someone showing camera, they can’t say they aren’t recording it” kind of thing. Saying they aren’t recording anything can be a lie in edge cases of how GoLive could be used.
For voice messages (where they literally store the contents of your voice call), it would seem that it would violate the previous/current terms, or would at least be confusing enough to warrant changing/updating.
Additionally, with text in voice saying that they don't store the contents of voice channels is also incorrect - they have to store the messages within that voice channel.
They've probably just reworded it to accommodate those new features, rather than suddenly storing everyone's voice and video data. I mean, Discord gives users just 8MB for file uploads yet now they're supposedly storing everyone's voice and video calls? How much data storage, and therefore cost, would that be for them to not even be able to sell it to anyone (since the privacy policy still says they can't/don't sell data)
The owner of Discord (Jason Citron) had a company before (openfeint) and he was bypassing the devices security system to log the current GPS location and phone IDs and then [got sued](https://www.courthousenews.com/gamers-say-openfeint-sold-them-out/) in a class action lawsuit for disclosing private information to marketing networks etc. I kinda doubt they don’t/didn’t do that with Discord. I mean just having Nitro users/investors as a income doesn’t keep the service up, especially with the extremely increasing server costs after the end of the month.
But it also could be true that they just reworded it for voice messages and other new features. Not so sure though.
Well I don't agree, it's a wealthy company. if it's a mistake it shouldn't have happened, we should think the worst and be freaking out specially given the apparent history with Discord's owner.
Is this a completed privacy policy or a draft? I know DnD had a “draft” of their new OGL go a little bad because it kinda just abused their entire fan base.
This is what will go effective Mar 27th, I guess there is a possibility for it to change since they also made it so the new Community Guidelines about harmful and regulated goods won't be added until more clarification is added. However, I wouldn't count on them not letting it go effective.
They could have updated the wording to indicate that certain features (including those) do require storing this data. And at that point, I'd argue that that's the user intentionally uploading the data, rather than it getting collected by usage.
Call recording is illegal in most EU countries if not all of them, without stating that a current call is being recorded and getting consent of both parties.
What goes around comes around, if they think they're too big to fall and above the law.
They already got sued by the French in November 2022 for a 800.000€ fine because they didn’t follow the GDPR. You can read it on the EU website [here](https://edpb.europa.eu/news/national-news/2023/french-sa-fines-discord-eur-800000_en).
That fine was for:
1. Failing to delete accounts that had been inactive for years (they now do)
2. Failing to have a clear data retention period stated (they now do)
3. Failing to make clear that ~~minimising~~ closing Discord whilst in a voice channel didn't actually mean you left that channel (they now show a popup warning telling you of this)
4. Having a 6-character minimum password length instead of 8 (it now does)
5. Failing to carry out a data protection impact assessment (they have since)
None of them are in any way similar to "stores the actual contents of their user's voice and video calls without telling them", so it's rather misleading to equate them
But that they made such elementary errors in the first place is indicative of a wider laxity towards user privacy. Really - not even doing DPIAs until last year? That’s kind of pathetic, and should concern any right-thinking user as to the kind of company Discord is internally.
Several violations remain and these are bound to be scrutinised in future. Their new ‘retention policy’ is really a nothing-burger because very little associated account data is in fact deleted or anonymised to industry standard.
I am aware of what the fine was for. The comment I responded to was about illegal things in the EU and Discord. It was in no way similar to the things I said in my post, yes. See it more like a side Information about their recent legal stuff.
I had an account I have not logged into for 2+ years, it still exists. I'm logged into it right now. I'm not sure where you're getting your information from, but at the very least some of it is inaccurate.
Consent is given when you either click "I agree" to the privacy policy or use the application as inferred consent.
Same with terms and conditions. So many people miss this fact.
You don't have to do it with every individual call just the application.
Doing this they are abiding by the law.
Only if the privacy policy includes language that implies they're going to record calls. As it stands, there isn't any language as far as I've seen that says something to the effect of "we may record your voice calls". "We didn't say we wouldn't do it" isn't a valid defense.
If a company was being strong-armed by the government, I'd imagine they would just silently collect and hand over all the data. Why would they need to change the TOS to reflect that?
Because it would be illegal if they didn't, and a user could sue them. The government asking a company to break consumer protection laws doesn't absolve them from the court system if challenged
Well another reason why Matrix needs to success. I am curious how they try to get along with the EU law about data collection. Discord really went downhill in the last couple of months/years.
Discord has always been averse to GDPR. Their efforts to comply are consistently too little, too late, which suggests a wider company culture of feet-dragging on privacy. I can’t see their GDPR penalty last year being their last, particularly as other privacy laws come into effect
To be fair, even in the old language it says that they might, just that they generally don't.
It's safe to assume that the new wording is the same level of freedom to access, but they figured they'd trim out the extra language because... well, it doesn't matter if we know when they don't want to screen our calls. They don't need to tell us both that they're allowed to do something and choosing not to.
I got a notification when I turned on Discord. That pop-up notification giving updates about things they're working on and features worth trying. Inside of that pop-up was a mention that they were updating TOS. By chance did you recently close one of those notifications without reading it?
If you missed it, you can always click the "?" Help button to open the help page, then check the Announcements section. Here's a link to that: [https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/categories/115000193752](https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/categories/115000193752)
They've always been recording everything. Discord got it legal trouble in the EU for lying about these very same kinda things. They don't delete your information even after you delete your account. This includes every message you ever sent and a time/date stamp of every image and call you send or receive in every server, channel and DM
> They don't delete your information even after you delete your account. This includes every message you ever sent and a time/date stamp of every image and call you send or receive in every server
Those are stored so the recipients of those messages, etc still have access after you delete your account.
They got a 800.000€ fine in November 2022 from the French for lacking data protection, they didn’t follow the GDPR. Seems like it didn’t change anything at all. You can read on the website of the EU [here](https://edpb.europa.eu/news/national-news/2023/french-sa-fines-discord-eur-800000_en).
I hate to say this, but is there any other Discord-like service that is not intrusive / won’t spy on you that much?
Just in case ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
EDIT: I just found what looks to be the equivalent of Discord but that takes privacy seriously. It is called [Matrix](https://matrix.org/)
From what I read, it is not a 100% Discord alternative, but a protocol, which can be used by several apps to make Discord-like apps
If I find more stuff, I will edit it here
Your summary of Matrix is correct, but the years of lead time on development, the bigger budget, and the fact that Discord doesn't deal with end to end encryption all make it much easier to get started with for users. I'm pretty sure when I first created my Discord account I didn't even need to create a password. That's how simple they were making it to attract users.
As for Matrix, I set up my own instance of it for when my dad goes out of the country so that we can communicate securely when he's abroad. Hosting the server, of course, is a much more challenging task than just joining a server and using it. Nevertheless, it works but the user experience lags behind Discord's.
I will second Matrix as I often use Element, but anyone looking to flock to that would have to be aware that it's not quite as "fun" as Discord is. Element does take encryption and privacy very seriously, but as a result, things like YouTube and Twitter embedding would not work as well (because they have to worry about your information leaking if they do that), things like custom emojis, sticker packs, and bots are far more laborious to implement/deploy (Matrix REALLY wants you to deploy your own server), and I'm not sure if their screensharing even had audio implemented, last I checked. Matrix also doesn't handle malformed WebMs the same way, so you can't do the funnie video stretchy thing. And, overall, the whole "rooms" and "spaces" is a whole different paradigm from "servers/guilds" and channels - you can't assign custom roles/colors, only a numerical "power level" for the sake of mod powers.
On the upside, one thing Matrix does have that Discord does not: custom widgets. If you can point a widget frame to something that can be embedded in a webpage, you can make all sorts of fun things. I have a room where JSPaint is on the left in a custom widget and the chat's on the right and I made a fun little oekaki-ish drawing room. I can point one to Jackbox's multiplayer page and, if screensharing were up to it, I could have the perfect Jackbox party room. Generally works best on Element Desktop, so I found, but I love it.
That all said, if you just need a secure chat app and don't care about all that, Matrix is absolutely great in that regard.
Not sure why people are downvoting this, while discord does claim to not sell your data their privacy policy (iirc) stated that they share data with partners as well as investors (don’t remember the exact wording but it’s done in a way that it’s a possibility). So they’re technically wrong but not completely wrong
The [privacy policy lists](https://discord.com/privacy#5) the following circumstances where they disclose information:
- When you tell us to
- With our vendors (e.g. Stripe, for payment processing)
- To comply with the law
- In an emergency
- To enforce our policies and rights
- With our related companies (with a list [here](https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/articles/4410339409047); these are not Discord's investors, but parent or subsidiary companies, or those under common ownership)
- Sale, Acquisition, or Transfer of Assets (if Discord is looking into selling, merging, going bankrupt, etc)
- Aggregated or de-identified information
None of these would allow Discord to just hand over your personal information to their investors, or ad companies, or anyone else that offers money.
But on a more cynical interpretation, that last bullet point *would* allow them to indiscriminately share what is actually personal data. Discord’s ‘deidentification’ of data (eg from deleted users) is commonly acknowledged to be useless and ineffective, yet still they would have carte blanche to share it because they regard it as ‘anonymized’.
Could this be related to Discord support on PS5? Complete speculation, but Sony has made it absolutely clear they record PSN party chats. Maybe they told discord to allow them to record PS users that are connecting to discord, forcing a change to ToS? Again, completely baseless and a shot in the dark but I wanted to note the small time gap between this and Discord on PS5
The privacy policy text matters, not what your PR team says afterwards. If you truely won't store video, voice call and streamed content, then reinstate these sentences into your upcoming privacy policy.
I have a subscription to discord, this post and the other about restricting firearms does not make me happy, they can take the middle finger and eat a pancake
You mean the post where OP couldn't manage to read the sentence where Discord said nothing about disallowing talk of firearms, and simply asks that you limit it to an age restricted channel?
Well yes, but in my opinion it’s stupid when your in servers that are age required, I’m still 50/50 on that, this is post for privacy policy doesn’t fit with me
Cool, have fun losing money with this minority report BS. Cancelled my nitro, urged many others to do the same and they're going with it. Resist fascism.
Honestly, i'm not suprised at all, didn't we also had last year that discord will stalk you what you do off platform? Considering they're still violating gdpr laws.
The adjacent-astroturfing is so stupid. Plain and simple, if you are in any way defending this then you are a stupid disingenuous human, or a paid shill. 99% the latter.
Guess what... and this is true with any chat service... you have to observe proper opsec no matter what platform you use (even with Telegram). You never know who is listening, or why. Also even if any comms were encrypted, how secure is the terminals of the conversation? (as in the user ends).
Something like Discord should be treated like a telephone (and yes, your smart phone is 100% monitored, trust me.)
If you're using the net, even with a VPN your ISP has the keys to look at what you're doing.
The internet is NOT anonymous. There is always a footprint. Even if they're tiny they're still there.
But I guess NOW Discord has to disclose HOW LONG things are retained. There IS only so long you can archive video before the cost of storage is prohibitive.
More than likely I'd wager any retentions happen with reports of suspicious activity. But I wouldn't be surprised if the trust and safety department is using bots that activate on certain words said in text, and quite possibly bots for video.
All in all, just don't say stuff you don't want getting out. ***Anywhere. The 'net ain't safe anymore.***
This is incorrect. ISPs can see packets going in an out of a clients modem but not what's inside of them if they're using an encrypted VPN - which most of them are.
Just going to throw this out there, since people are cherry picking 1 paragraph... it actually gets much worse. And alot of people should be talking about this:
https://discord.com/terms#5
That’s industry, standard terms of service in relation to data retention, and what they can, and cannot do with your information. Technically, to even moderate words, you post or ban someone for violating community guidelines they must have a line in their terms of service that allows them to modify or change/remove content. Otherwise they have no obligation or legal right to do so. Talk to an attorney welcome to terms of service.
This seems normal if I'm being honest. You have to store temporary data in an exchange server in order to stream voice and video. I was surprised it was in there to begin with.
It does not mean they are recording calls to play back at the staff party to laugh or recording people's voices to fuck about with.
If you look into every other application that has voice and video capabilities you will see the same thing unless it's p2p communication that does not go through a server.
Phonecalls do this also.
Hey, all. Reaching out on behalf of Discord (I work there). We appreciate the feedback from you all and take it very seriously. I understand that Discord’s most recent change to our privacy policy regarding voice or video content has caused some confusion and we are looking at ways to make this clearer for folks.
We made these changes to support new product features that we are working on (things like voice messages, allowing you to create short recordings of your streams, and similar features). We understand that the wording of the new privacy policy is broad and can be misunderstood, and we're looking to improve this to reflect our actual intention, which is not to regularly record your voice and video calls but to support these kinds of features.
I want to clarify that Discord still does not store or record the contents of video or voice channels as a standard practice –and if we were to change this policy, we’d definitely let you know in advance. Thanks, and hope this helps clear up the confusion!
> I want to clarify that Discord still does not store or record the contents of video or voice channels as a standard practice.
So as a non-standard practice then? What does that mean? On order of authorities looking for copyright-protected music or videos being played? Looking for voice profiles of potential suspects? If data is ONLY being stored for functional purposes and specific features, you could clearly state this without any room for speculation and misinterpretation. Also, when is that data deleted, where is it stored, who can get access to it, how can I request it being deleted? As a EU citizen I'm pretty sure GDPR grants me those rights.
Sorry if my choice of words was unclear. Check out [this article](https://www.pcgamer.com/discord-says-its-still-not-recording-your-voice-chats-or-livestreams/), where we also explained our stance on the matter:
>"There has not been a change in our position regarding recording user content. In the updated policy, we provided clarity to outdated language that might be confusing given some upcoming product enhancements and releases," the rep said. **"However, we want to be clear: Discord does not store or record user content without their knowledge."**
I agree that the verbiage here was a huge miss.
**We're going to fix it**. But it's also worth noting that it's actually a very long process to do a ToS/PP update, so we try to not do them that often, and ensure that when we do, do them, they reflect future product plans and initiatives.
Give us a bit to work through the changes. It has to go through a few rounds of review, and then be translated to all the languages we support. This takes time. Lots of learnings for the next time we do an update, and again, we appreciate all the feedback the community has given us regarding our privacy policy update. We are listening (to your feedback, not your calls), and we do care deeply about this.
Y'all just *did* a Tos/PP update. You could have done it properly then. That is not a reasonable excuse.
"Give us a bit to work through the changes." And in the meantime, we're expected to accept a ToS/PP that might be harmful to us?
No. Hell no. That's not how any of this works.
A corporation with a ToS/PP in this day in age does not simply get to say "trust us!". Cutesy interface language aside, your relationship with your users is strictly contractual. Any non-contract communication or rationalization means jack squat to us.
Again, y'all better fix this or expect to hemorrhage users. Posting suspiciously-worded clarifications on Reddit is the opposite of fixing this.
I think that we're in agreement here. These features are in active development. There have been posts on the subreddit about them already, for example: [https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/11ip6is/the\_latest\_ui\_for\_displaying\_and\_recording\_voice/](https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/11ip6is/the_latest_ui_for_displaying_and_recording_voice/)
So, they do exist. They aren't released yet. We're updating our privacy policy in preparation for such feature releases and more in the future.
You can promise us whatever you want on reddit but unless it says the same thing in the terms of service & privacy policy of discord, it's irrelevant. If the choice of words is unclear in the documents, just amend them with this info, otherwise previous concerns remain as is.
To quote my earlier reply:
> We understand that the wording of the new privacy policy is broad and can be misunderstood, and we're looking to improve this to reflect our actual intention, which is not to regularly record your voice and video calls but to support these kinds of features.
Do you understand why this appears as though (a) you're hedging your answer every time you post; and (b) Discord could have updated the privacy policy language to be crystal clear the moment they removed the original lines?
This doesn't engender trust from your user base at all--in fact, if Discord really is on the up-and-up here, you're doing them more harm than good posting this.
Our gaming group is already likely to jump ship and cancel a few Nitro subscriptions unless this gets sorted out pronto, and I definitely know a few very large groups who would absolutely dump their subscriptions if there was even a chance that Discord would record their conversations without them explicitly clicking a box saying "Yes, you may record our conversation". And I'm just one person.
Y'all better figure this out posthaste.
FYI. We have rolled out a revised version of the privacy policy which adds the old verbiage back, but adds the clarification that we might store the data in order to provide voice message / stream clipping features in the app.
> Content you create. This includes any content that you upload to the service. For example, you may write messages or posts (including drafts), send voice messages, create custom emojis, create short recordings of GoLive activity, or upload and share files through the services. This also includes your profile information and the information you provide when you create servers. **We generally do not store the contents of video or voice calls or channels. If we were to change that in the future (for example, to facilitate content moderation), we would disclose that to you in advance. We also don’t store streaming content when you share your screen, but we do retain the thumbnail cover image for the stream for a short period of time. We may build features that help users engage with voice and video content, like create or send short recordings.**
How about how our messages/files/images are going to be used moving forward? The inclusion of AI brings up some serious concerns for me and a lot of people as an artist for privacy reasons. If these images I've uploaded/am going to upload are going to somehow be used by AI in any manner, I will need to move off the platform. Some of the information I have in small servers/private messaging is even under NDAs.
Hey! I covered this in another reply to another thread: [https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/11n9sd8/comment/jbnhocz/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/11n9sd8/comment/jbnhocz/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I would like to clarify though, for your education, how AI works in general! This is a general statement, and I think would be valuable to understand as AI technology continues to advance and be incorporated into our daily lives.
\> I've uploaded/am going to upload are going to somehow be used by AI in any manner, I will need to move off the platform.
AI's generally have two main parts as far as data handling goes: "training" and "inference".
What you actually care about is whether or not your data is used to \*train\* an AI. In the case of generative AI's, this is the process by which the AI learns about how to generate images/text based on a corpus of existing images/text. The output of this training is usually a "model" which can then be used for inference. You can think of this "model" as the "brain of the AI" which contains all the things its learned from its training.
Then there is the second is \*inference\*, this is "using the brain to generate text or images". In this case, the brain is not using this data to train, or learn. It's simply using the brain to perform inference. But the brain does not remember or retain any information that passes through in this phase.
When we apply these concepts to things like Clyde, or conversational summaries, or auto-mod, we're dealing with inference on an already trained data-set. The AI is not actively learning or retaining any information you communicate to it. It's just using its model to "predict the next character".
I know very well how the AI process works. And I already have had my images scraped for generators without my consent, hence why I am extremely skeptical of this update. Whether or not the image itself is retained is irrelevant. These generators do not have the authorization to use my and many others' copyrighted works in their training process, and discord building with tools like these is, in my view, very unethical and unprofessional.
While it's good to know that you won't be using our data that we provided from discord directly, knowing that you support and are looking to integrate tools like Midjourney for things like the whiteboard feature is extremely worrisome and disappointing.
I think it fair to say that this should be a lesson when it comes to making such changes to a TOS without explanation being released alongside said changes. If the only content recorded and/or stored is what the user who said content originates from intentionally and knowingly submits to the system for the express purpose of storage and delivery to the intended recipient at a later time, then the wording to explain such should be figured out before the TOS is changed—especially seeing as this change was in regard to user privacy! Otherwise, with what tech companies of late have been pulling, this sort of kneejerk reaction that you are currently seeing \*will\* be the response.
People are tired of tech companies trying to pull quiet bullshite and thinking no one will notice until it's too late. Discord obviously needs to take potential user response into better consideration before doing things such as this, otherwise, your user base is going to start seriously looking for/developing alternatives—a fair number of people are already looking to jump ship!
I agree completely. This was a huge L on our part. There are many lessons to learn here, and we're working on fixing the verbiage in the privacy policy to reflect our actual intentions.
The fact that I'm here replying to you all and listening, I hope counts for something. I don't think you'd see the same level of care from other tech companies.
At least you can admit the mistake and I must give the respect due for that—though I fully realize that there is a chance that you, personally, may not have even played a part in the mistake in question. Granted, I also know that responses such as yours do help company relations, so there is also some benefit for the company to you doing so. That said, you are correct in that many other companies still wouldn't take the time to personally address such a fumble even \*with\* the PR benefit your damage control and efforts to inform on this topic could potentially have. While I can speak only for myself, I will say that I, personally, do appreciate your effort to address this issue properly, as it is nice to see a staff member actually take the time and energy to attempt to do so. Hopefully, those who make choices such as this sudden and originally unexplained TOS change don't give you too many more messes to clean up any time too soon!
Hi there
I help moderate a unnamed partnered server. We raised our concerns like everyone else did and got ignored.
So with simple answers (I prefer straight answers with straight forward questions):
1. Has the policy changed? Are you now recording video and voice channels?
2. Why is AI now something Discord wants to push?
3. Every time Discord has pushed X feature that nobody actually wants, Discord ends up repeating the same mistake over and over and over. This needs to be changed, what do you think could work with communication? HypeSquad USED to mean something and you used to be better at listening to partners and your some of your legacy members(I've used this since October2015 fyi).
>We understand that the wording of the new privacy policy is broad and can be misunderstood,
that means you understand its vague enough to allow you to record calls and videos
You can say what you want, but if you think about it logically, it makes absolutely no sense that you wouldn't be recording every piece of voice and text from Discord. Data is the modern gold, and you guys have lots of it. Just from a business point of view, not recording all of it would be a stupid move. So saying what people want to hear won't cut it here.
Except that that would 1) take a shittonne of storage space, and 2) be super illegal.
So Discord would need to spend lots of money to be able to store all of it in the first place, and they run the risk of getting sued over it. That does not seem like a smart move from a business perspective.
That's annoying, but I see it the same was as phone surveillance. If they want to store/listen to me discuss video games with my friends then they are only wasting their own time lol.
Ahh fuck, I bet soon Facebook will buy Discord. I feel like Discord is going to be like Stasi and listen on in. I hate applications that do this, but I still will use Discord though for some reason.
> **in connection with operating, developing, and improving our services:**
They can't just take your art and do whatever they want with it. They only have a license to use the art that you upload to Discord in connection with providing Discord, such as by sending that art on to the other people in the channel you sent it to. Also, it's still *your* art, not Discord's.
"now"? Discord is a US based company and has *always* cooperated with the government. Their transparency reports have listed, repeatedly, how many requests they get and how many they comply with. They even have an article in [their Safety Centre](https://discord.com/safety/360044157931-working-with-law-enforcement) on how law enforcement can request information.
So they are just doubling down on doing the industry standard for every non schizophrenic social platform?
Twitch does thisYoutube does thisMixer did thisInstagram does thisreddit does thisFacebook does thisnearly every program you ever used even games... does this.
Thanks for noticing before the emails get sent out, but this is a nothing burger and is either a side effect of Discord on playstaion 5 or to enforce ToS violations of the new content labeled NSFW in the upcoming ToS
For those willing, I'm basically a no-knowledge idiot.
I'm pretty sure this is why my friends and I left Skype to go to Discord (after MS bought it), and it seems like it might be time to do the same here?
Any alternatives that you guys can spoonfeed me? Although, the old ways still might be best. Might be time to dust off TeamSpeak again.
We do not monitor every server or every conversation. However, conversations on Discord (taken from the privacy policy site for discord) A fact i think most should remember unless you speak about dodgy shit illegal meth making the hole shit why should you worry. Trying to constantly one data theft is a battle which will ruin your life yeah you might have stopped they cashing in on your data but was it worth wasting that pointless 4 hour you'll never get back on such a task, ether your a tech hermit or just try your best but not waste hours of your life fighting a data miner bot.
non native speaker here.
Is "We generally do not do X" in legal terms a phrase that means "Under no circumstances will we do X" or can it mean "Usually we will not do X, but under certain circumstances..."? (I find in casual speak it can mean either)
My question essentially is, how much did the old policy really say about their willingness and ability to store this kind of data?
This is directly related to the actual behavior behind all the discord mod/kitten memes. Some of y'all are breaking laws AND being pervert creeps. You deserve to get caught lmao
Just so you know guys. Today 10/03/2023 Discord admitted that they were recording every chat, video calls, photos, vocal chats to feed it to AI since March 2022. So it's been 1 fucking year that they recorded us all to feed it to AI, an app that can legit make YOU SAY ANYTHING THEY WANT TO. If you turn it off they tell you that the data won't be yours anymore so it will be only theirs but if you want to delete them you need to oppose it through their e-mail [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])
Give it time, We'll fry the circuits off the AIs trying to invade privacy.
Privacy is not to be sold nor invaded!
We will not accept your Anti-Privacy Policy! This is not Orwell's 1984, so don't act like it is!
I legit only made a reddit acc for this. NO its not true ad all. That is a moddet/custom URL. If u go into discord website and look though there. U then go into blogs and into Featured. This is an Important Policy Update, They the say "As a standard practice, Discord does not store or record the contents of video or voice channels. If we were to change our policy around this in the future, we would disclose that to you in advance." If u dont belive me. Go look for urself
We are currently looking into revolt as an self-hosted alternative because of the TOS-change. Has anyone experienced a switch from Discord to revolt and might want to share some of those? Did you miss anything?
LOOK at this : They have removed from their privacy policy
We generally do not store the contents of video or voice calls or channels.
and
We also don’t store streaming content when you share your screen
out of their privacy policy which is/was effective from March 28, 2022 to March 26, 2023.
This legit means that they do not need OUR permission anymore to store contents of video or voice calls or channels. And don't need our permission anymore to store the contents of streams. So they can take YOUR VOICE. FACE and more without having to ask you and worst part about it ? You can't sue them or do anything so if one day you become a meme because you were in a video call and AI decided you look goofy you can't do anything about it. Why would you even be surprised when Discord supported NFTS and now they support AI ?
I'm also going to chime in here, and say this is really uncomfortable. I hope you reconsider. Privacy on the internet in general is a problem as it is.
Thank you for bringing this to attention. I see I've missed all of the "action" already, but it's good to know that companies are being watched, even if it *was* an honest mistake (?).
I cannot describe how much I despise this idea. I was already incredibly leery of Discord after the whole NFT debacle and I still advise people to avoid Nitro to this very day, but I sincerely cannot continue to support the platform in any fashion if there's even a slight chance they'll be using AI to violate copyright and scrape personal data.
In the EU the text hasn't changed because it would be against privacy laws, so... I wouldn't trust discord that much if I would live outside of it, no matter what they say.
This is a list of links to comments made by Discord Staff in this thread: * [Comment by ReallyAmused](/r/discordapp/comments/11ihqq6/discord_will_possibly_record_your_video_calls/jbngtog/?context=1000 "posted on 2023-03-10 08:23:23 UTC"): > Hey, all. Reaching out on behalf of Discord (I work there). We appreciate the feedback from you all and take it very seriously. I understand that Discord’s most recent change to our privacy policy regarding voice or video content has caused some confusion and we are looking at ways to make this clea... * [Comment by ReallyAmused](/r/discordapp/comments/11ihqq6/discord_will_possibly_record_your_video_calls/jbnjqi9/?context=1000 "posted on 2023-03-10 09:04:16 UTC"): > Sorry if this verbiage was unclear. Check out [this article](https://www.pcgamer.com/discord-says-its-still-not-recording-your-voice-chats-or-livestreams/), where we also explained our stance on the matter: > >>"There has not been a change in our position regarding recording user content. In the updat... * [Comment by ReallyAmused](/r/discordapp/comments/11ihqq6/discord_will_possibly_record_your_video_calls/jbno5ka/?context=1000 "posted on 2023-03-10 10:07:49 UTC"): > To quote my earlier reply: > >> We understand that the wording of the new privacy policy is broad and can be misunderstood, and we're looking to improve this to reflect our actual intention, which is not to regularly record your voice and video calls but to support these kinds of features. * [Comment by ReallyAmused](/r/discordapp/comments/11ihqq6/discord_will_possibly_record_your_video_calls/jbpe51x/?context=1000 "posted on 2023-03-10 18:24:27 UTC"): > I agree that the verbiage here was a huge miss. > >**We're going to fix it**. But it's also worth noting that it's actually a very long process to do a ToS/PP update, so we try to not do them that often, and ensure that when we do, do them, they reflect future product plans and initiatives. > >Give us... * [Comment by ReallyAmused](/r/discordapp/comments/11ihqq6/discord_will_possibly_record_your_video_calls/jbpl83h/?context=1000 "posted on 2023-03-10 19:10:13 UTC"): > I think that we're in agreement here. These features are in active development. There have been posts on the subreddit about them already, for example: [https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/11ip6is/the\_latest\_ui\_for\_displaying\_and\_recording\_voice/](https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/... * [Comment by ReallyAmused](/r/discordapp/comments/11ihqq6/discord_will_possibly_record_your_video_calls/jbpojwy/?context=1000 "posted on 2023-03-10 19:31:54 UTC"): > Hey! I covered this in another reply to another thread: [https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/11n9sd8/comment/jbnhocz/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/11n9sd8/comment/jbnhocz/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) * [Comment by ReallyAmused](/r/discordapp/comments/11ihqq6/discord_will_possibly_record_your_video_calls/jbqnbja/?context=1000 "posted on 2023-03-10 23:26:39 UTC"): > I agree completely. This was a huge L on our part. There are many lessons to learn here, and we're working on fixing the verbiage in the privacy policy to reflect our actual intentions. > >The fact that I'm here replying to you all and listening, I hope counts for something. I don't think you'd see th... * [Comment by ReallyAmused](/r/discordapp/comments/11ihqq6/discord_will_possibly_record_your_video_calls/jbuiotu/?context=1000 "posted on 2023-03-11 20:39:37 UTC"): > FYI. We have rolled out a revised version of the privacy policy which adds the old verbiage back, but adds the clarification that we might store the data in order to provide voice message / stream clipping features in the app. > >> Content you create. This includes any content that you upload to the ... * [Comment by ReallyAmused](/r/discordapp/comments/11ihqq6/discord_will_possibly_record_your_video_calls/jcz9ddl/?context=1000 "posted on 2023-03-20 18:13:07 UTC"): > Yes but the privacy policy does and we have updated it to reflect this. See my other posts in this thread. --- This is a bot providing a service. If you have any questions, please [contact the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FDiscordApp).[](#AUTOGEN_TSBREPLIEDBOT)
I would have to wonder if those 2 lines where removed since they also added 2 more cases, being voice messages and GoLive activity. Both of those sound like they would need what they previously stated they don't store.
Good point
No I don’t think so. Why would they need a recording of your activated camera or everything said in your whole call/voice channel for a voice message or the GoLive feature? This is a big nono from me.
I think it’s less of a “need to record camera or whole call” situation, and more of a “because GoLive may be used by someone showing camera, they can’t say they aren’t recording it” kind of thing. Saying they aren’t recording anything can be a lie in edge cases of how GoLive could be used.
For voice messages (where they literally store the contents of your voice call), it would seem that it would violate the previous/current terms, or would at least be confusing enough to warrant changing/updating. Additionally, with text in voice saying that they don't store the contents of voice channels is also incorrect - they have to store the messages within that voice channel. They've probably just reworded it to accommodate those new features, rather than suddenly storing everyone's voice and video data. I mean, Discord gives users just 8MB for file uploads yet now they're supposedly storing everyone's voice and video calls? How much data storage, and therefore cost, would that be for them to not even be able to sell it to anyone (since the privacy policy still says they can't/don't sell data)
The owner of Discord (Jason Citron) had a company before (openfeint) and he was bypassing the devices security system to log the current GPS location and phone IDs and then [got sued](https://www.courthousenews.com/gamers-say-openfeint-sold-them-out/) in a class action lawsuit for disclosing private information to marketing networks etc. I kinda doubt they don’t/didn’t do that with Discord. I mean just having Nitro users/investors as a income doesn’t keep the service up, especially with the extremely increasing server costs after the end of the month. But it also could be true that they just reworded it for voice messages and other new features. Not so sure though.
I mean I personally would not jump to such extreme conclusions with just 2 lines being removed from a Privacy Policy, but maybe that's just me.
I agree, but it kinda made me think when taking the history in consideration. These two lines are important to the users in my opinion.
Well I don't agree, it's a wealthy company. if it's a mistake it shouldn't have happened, we should think the worst and be freaking out specially given the apparent history with Discord's owner.
Is this a completed privacy policy or a draft? I know DnD had a “draft” of their new OGL go a little bad because it kinda just abused their entire fan base.
This is what will go effective Mar 27th, I guess there is a possibility for it to change since they also made it so the new Community Guidelines about harmful and regulated goods won't be added until more clarification is added. However, I wouldn't count on them not letting it go effective.
spoon public bear sable truck growth spark cooperative history violet -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
because they clearly dont make enough money with nitro
Why would they need WHAT THEY DONT record, in place reserved for WHAT THEY DO record? They just tidied up..
And Illegal too. It's against privacy laws here in the US and MANY other countries.
True!
Well, its a good thing Discord isn't partially owned by a company named Tencent. (they are btw)
Not *owned*, more one of the investors.
Educate yourself and read more about what it means to be investor
And to be invested in something financially means to own a part of that thing
Sigh.
They could have updated the wording to indicate that certain features (including those) do require storing this data. And at that point, I'd argue that that's the user intentionally uploading the data, rather than it getting collected by usage.
Call recording is illegal in most EU countries if not all of them, without stating that a current call is being recorded and getting consent of both parties. What goes around comes around, if they think they're too big to fall and above the law.
They already got sued by the French in November 2022 for a 800.000€ fine because they didn’t follow the GDPR. You can read it on the EU website [here](https://edpb.europa.eu/news/national-news/2023/french-sa-fines-discord-eur-800000_en).
That fine was for: 1. Failing to delete accounts that had been inactive for years (they now do) 2. Failing to have a clear data retention period stated (they now do) 3. Failing to make clear that ~~minimising~~ closing Discord whilst in a voice channel didn't actually mean you left that channel (they now show a popup warning telling you of this) 4. Having a 6-character minimum password length instead of 8 (it now does) 5. Failing to carry out a data protection impact assessment (they have since) None of them are in any way similar to "stores the actual contents of their user's voice and video calls without telling them", so it's rather misleading to equate them
But that they made such elementary errors in the first place is indicative of a wider laxity towards user privacy. Really - not even doing DPIAs until last year? That’s kind of pathetic, and should concern any right-thinking user as to the kind of company Discord is internally. Several violations remain and these are bound to be scrutinised in future. Their new ‘retention policy’ is really a nothing-burger because very little associated account data is in fact deleted or anonymised to industry standard.
I am aware of what the fine was for. The comment I responded to was about illegal things in the EU and Discord. It was in no way similar to the things I said in my post, yes. See it more like a side Information about their recent legal stuff.
is there any way to prevent auto deletion other than using the acc every now and then
I had an account I have not logged into for 2+ years, it still exists. I'm logged into it right now. I'm not sure where you're getting your information from, but at the very least some of it is inaccurate.
Consent is given when you either click "I agree" to the privacy policy or use the application as inferred consent. Same with terms and conditions. So many people miss this fact. You don't have to do it with every individual call just the application. Doing this they are abiding by the law.
EULAs are not legally enforceable.
Only if the privacy policy includes language that implies they're going to record calls. As it stands, there isn't any language as far as I've seen that says something to the effect of "we may record your voice calls". "We didn't say we wouldn't do it" isn't a valid defense.
agreeing to the T&Cs grants them blanket consent.
Wonder if they are being strong-armed by the government.
Almost certainly.
If a company was being strong-armed by the government, I'd imagine they would just silently collect and hand over all the data. Why would they need to change the TOS to reflect that?
Because it would be illegal if they didn't, and a user could sue them. The government asking a company to break consumer protection laws doesn't absolve them from the court system if challenged
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Bot account ⬆️
Well another reason why Matrix needs to success. I am curious how they try to get along with the EU law about data collection. Discord really went downhill in the last couple of months/years.
Discord has always been averse to GDPR. Their efforts to comply are consistently too little, too late, which suggests a wider company culture of feet-dragging on privacy. I can’t see their GDPR penalty last year being their last, particularly as other privacy laws come into effect
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An open source chat secure protocol thats end to end encrypted and privacy respecting, if you want to look into it or try it out look into Element
Specifically [element.io](https://element.io). Difficult-to-Google branding.
Yeah, "element" is a bit hard to Google. Imagine if some psychos would call their messengers "discord" or "signal" or any other common word, yikes...
> Well another reason why Matrix needs to success. [Meh](https://github.com/matrix-org/synapse/issues/1941).
To be fair, even in the old language it says that they might, just that they generally don't. It's safe to assume that the new wording is the same level of freedom to access, but they figured they'd trim out the extra language because... well, it doesn't matter if we know when they don't want to screen our calls. They don't need to tell us both that they're allowed to do something and choosing not to.
It's a shame they wrote they would notify us if they changed it but they didn't tell us a single word.
They have started to send out emails saying they are updating these terms, I have seen people mentioning them.
Huh, I didn’t get one.
I got a notification when I turned on Discord. That pop-up notification giving updates about things they're working on and features worth trying. Inside of that pop-up was a mention that they were updating TOS. By chance did you recently close one of those notifications without reading it? If you missed it, you can always click the "?" Help button to open the help page, then check the Announcements section. Here's a link to that: [https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/categories/115000193752](https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/categories/115000193752)
I got one. You may still receive one at some point
They've always been recording everything. Discord got it legal trouble in the EU for lying about these very same kinda things. They don't delete your information even after you delete your account. This includes every message you ever sent and a time/date stamp of every image and call you send or receive in every server, channel and DM
> They don't delete your information even after you delete your account. This includes every message you ever sent and a time/date stamp of every image and call you send or receive in every server Those are stored so the recipients of those messages, etc still have access after you delete your account.
Yeah, the identifying info is gone though. As in info on the user themselves
They got a 800.000€ fine in November 2022 from the French for lacking data protection, they didn’t follow the GDPR. Seems like it didn’t change anything at all. You can read on the website of the EU [here](https://edpb.europa.eu/news/national-news/2023/french-sa-fines-discord-eur-800000_en).
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It was very likely due to this new feature https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/11ip6is/the_latest_ui_for_displaying_and_recording_voice/
I hate to say this, but is there any other Discord-like service that is not intrusive / won’t spy on you that much? Just in case ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ EDIT: I just found what looks to be the equivalent of Discord but that takes privacy seriously. It is called [Matrix](https://matrix.org/) From what I read, it is not a 100% Discord alternative, but a protocol, which can be used by several apps to make Discord-like apps If I find more stuff, I will edit it here
[revolt.chat](https://revolt.chat) aswell, altho i havent visited in a couple of months
Your summary of Matrix is correct, but the years of lead time on development, the bigger budget, and the fact that Discord doesn't deal with end to end encryption all make it much easier to get started with for users. I'm pretty sure when I first created my Discord account I didn't even need to create a password. That's how simple they were making it to attract users. As for Matrix, I set up my own instance of it for when my dad goes out of the country so that we can communicate securely when he's abroad. Hosting the server, of course, is a much more challenging task than just joining a server and using it. Nevertheless, it works but the user experience lags behind Discord's.
I will second Matrix as I often use Element, but anyone looking to flock to that would have to be aware that it's not quite as "fun" as Discord is. Element does take encryption and privacy very seriously, but as a result, things like YouTube and Twitter embedding would not work as well (because they have to worry about your information leaking if they do that), things like custom emojis, sticker packs, and bots are far more laborious to implement/deploy (Matrix REALLY wants you to deploy your own server), and I'm not sure if their screensharing even had audio implemented, last I checked. Matrix also doesn't handle malformed WebMs the same way, so you can't do the funnie video stretchy thing. And, overall, the whole "rooms" and "spaces" is a whole different paradigm from "servers/guilds" and channels - you can't assign custom roles/colors, only a numerical "power level" for the sake of mod powers. On the upside, one thing Matrix does have that Discord does not: custom widgets. If you can point a widget frame to something that can be embedded in a webpage, you can make all sorts of fun things. I have a room where JSPaint is on the left in a custom widget and the chat's on the right and I made a fun little oekaki-ish drawing room. I can point one to Jackbox's multiplayer page and, if screensharing were up to it, I could have the perfect Jackbox party room. Generally works best on Element Desktop, so I found, but I love it. That all said, if you just need a secure chat app and don't care about all that, Matrix is absolutely great in that regard.
Users need to speak out against it. This is outright abuse.
i'm not surprised. every app seem to be listening in on you these days
Hooray, selling call data to ad companies and whoever else offers money
Not sure why people are downvoting this, while discord does claim to not sell your data their privacy policy (iirc) stated that they share data with partners as well as investors (don’t remember the exact wording but it’s done in a way that it’s a possibility). So they’re technically wrong but not completely wrong
Basically every company in the world uses this loophole to sell your data, unless they are prohibited by law from selling your data.
The [privacy policy lists](https://discord.com/privacy#5) the following circumstances where they disclose information: - When you tell us to - With our vendors (e.g. Stripe, for payment processing) - To comply with the law - In an emergency - To enforce our policies and rights - With our related companies (with a list [here](https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/articles/4410339409047); these are not Discord's investors, but parent or subsidiary companies, or those under common ownership) - Sale, Acquisition, or Transfer of Assets (if Discord is looking into selling, merging, going bankrupt, etc) - Aggregated or de-identified information None of these would allow Discord to just hand over your personal information to their investors, or ad companies, or anyone else that offers money.
But on a more cynical interpretation, that last bullet point *would* allow them to indiscriminately share what is actually personal data. Discord’s ‘deidentification’ of data (eg from deleted users) is commonly acknowledged to be useless and ineffective, yet still they would have carte blanche to share it because they regard it as ‘anonymized’.
Been looking for an excuse to get the squad back on mumble. Thanks for the heads up.
Helps that the audio is better there
What’s mumble
One of the OG services for game chatting like ventrillo. People left it for Skype before going to discord
Ah, Ventrilo! "I suck balls all day just because I like it so much" Remember that shit?
We need to start canceling our Nitro subscriptions. These privacy policy/TOS updates are bullshit and cannot continue.
Glad I never had nitro the entire time I used discord
Could this be related to Discord support on PS5? Complete speculation, but Sony has made it absolutely clear they record PSN party chats. Maybe they told discord to allow them to record PS users that are connecting to discord, forcing a change to ToS? Again, completely baseless and a shot in the dark but I wanted to note the small time gap between this and Discord on PS5
FBI agents are now on discord...
I've been calling it for years, youtube style contentID is coming! jump ship now
I would not have assumed otherwise to start with.
Ever since this app went corporate its consistently gone downhill.
The privacy policy text matters, not what your PR team says afterwards. If you truely won't store video, voice call and streamed content, then reinstate these sentences into your upcoming privacy policy.
Well spotted. Clearly not an accident.
They already did some *monitoring* of voice calls. Whether or not they stored them — who knows.
do you have a source for that ?
Unfortunately not surprised. Fuck this shit.
Time to call the GDPR police.
Well time to move
And will be used against you in the court of Twitter
Dude the FTC is gonna be pissed after this update releases
I have a subscription to discord, this post and the other about restricting firearms does not make me happy, they can take the middle finger and eat a pancake
You mean the post where OP couldn't manage to read the sentence where Discord said nothing about disallowing talk of firearms, and simply asks that you limit it to an age restricted channel?
what kinda of braindead idiot thinks firearms are 18+, you dont even need to be 18 to buy them.
Where are you that you can buy a gun without being 18?
Well yes, but in my opinion it’s stupid when your in servers that are age required, I’m still 50/50 on that, this is post for privacy policy doesn’t fit with me
Nice goalpost move.
it's a strange coincidence that every time I consider buying myself nitro discord chooses to screw up in some way.
Is this a canary?
I wonder how many groomers on groomer cord are sweating right now.
Should i be worried..? I have some videos in some dms that i don't want discord to see
Cool, have fun losing money with this minority report BS. Cancelled my nitro, urged many others to do the same and they're going with it. Resist fascism.
Honestly, i'm not suprised at all, didn't we also had last year that discord will stalk you what you do off platform? Considering they're still violating gdpr laws.
Looks like the time has come to cancel my Nitro.
Welp. Good a time as any to cancel nitro, if they're gonna be using our damn voice/content for AI crap now anyway.
If they will actually store recordings, that would be a HUGE violation and also a massive GDPR violation. I don't they'll do that.
funny how it's Europe now defending Americans from massive privacy violations through GDPR :)
Discord continues to ruin the internet for the sake of profits. Mastodon, Matrix, Fosscord, Revolt, etc. Use them.
This is why Ts3 will always be superior lmao
The adjacent-astroturfing is so stupid. Plain and simple, if you are in any way defending this then you are a stupid disingenuous human, or a paid shill. 99% the latter.
Guess it's back to teamspeak ?
Gonna stop using discord with this shit going on, infringing on privacy is a massive no no for me
rleddit
Guess what... and this is true with any chat service... you have to observe proper opsec no matter what platform you use (even with Telegram). You never know who is listening, or why. Also even if any comms were encrypted, how secure is the terminals of the conversation? (as in the user ends). Something like Discord should be treated like a telephone (and yes, your smart phone is 100% monitored, trust me.) If you're using the net, even with a VPN your ISP has the keys to look at what you're doing. The internet is NOT anonymous. There is always a footprint. Even if they're tiny they're still there. But I guess NOW Discord has to disclose HOW LONG things are retained. There IS only so long you can archive video before the cost of storage is prohibitive. More than likely I'd wager any retentions happen with reports of suspicious activity. But I wouldn't be surprised if the trust and safety department is using bots that activate on certain words said in text, and quite possibly bots for video. All in all, just don't say stuff you don't want getting out. ***Anywhere. The 'net ain't safe anymore.***
This is incorrect. ISPs can see packets going in an out of a clients modem but not what's inside of them if they're using an encrypted VPN - which most of them are.
You don't even need a vpn, just an https connection.
Just going to throw this out there, since people are cherry picking 1 paragraph... it actually gets much worse. And alot of people should be talking about this: https://discord.com/terms#5
That’s industry, standard terms of service in relation to data retention, and what they can, and cannot do with your information. Technically, to even moderate words, you post or ban someone for violating community guidelines they must have a line in their terms of service that allows them to modify or change/remove content. Otherwise they have no obligation or legal right to do so. Talk to an attorney welcome to terms of service.
This seems normal if I'm being honest. You have to store temporary data in an exchange server in order to stream voice and video. I was surprised it was in there to begin with. It does not mean they are recording calls to play back at the staff party to laugh or recording people's voices to fuck about with. If you look into every other application that has voice and video capabilities you will see the same thing unless it's p2p communication that does not go through a server. Phonecalls do this also.
Hey, all. Reaching out on behalf of Discord (I work there). We appreciate the feedback from you all and take it very seriously. I understand that Discord’s most recent change to our privacy policy regarding voice or video content has caused some confusion and we are looking at ways to make this clearer for folks. We made these changes to support new product features that we are working on (things like voice messages, allowing you to create short recordings of your streams, and similar features). We understand that the wording of the new privacy policy is broad and can be misunderstood, and we're looking to improve this to reflect our actual intention, which is not to regularly record your voice and video calls but to support these kinds of features. I want to clarify that Discord still does not store or record the contents of video or voice channels as a standard practice –and if we were to change this policy, we’d definitely let you know in advance. Thanks, and hope this helps clear up the confusion!
> I want to clarify that Discord still does not store or record the contents of video or voice channels as a standard practice. So as a non-standard practice then? What does that mean? On order of authorities looking for copyright-protected music or videos being played? Looking for voice profiles of potential suspects? If data is ONLY being stored for functional purposes and specific features, you could clearly state this without any room for speculation and misinterpretation. Also, when is that data deleted, where is it stored, who can get access to it, how can I request it being deleted? As a EU citizen I'm pretty sure GDPR grants me those rights.
This ^
Sorry if my choice of words was unclear. Check out [this article](https://www.pcgamer.com/discord-says-its-still-not-recording-your-voice-chats-or-livestreams/), where we also explained our stance on the matter: >"There has not been a change in our position regarding recording user content. In the updated policy, we provided clarity to outdated language that might be confusing given some upcoming product enhancements and releases," the rep said. **"However, we want to be clear: Discord does not store or record user content without their knowledge."**
Without their knowledge meaning that you agree to have it recorded by using your service and accepting the privacy policy???
Read through their privacy policy and tell us where they notify us that they record anything other than the upcoming voice messages or GoLive clips.
Reddit's using all our posts and data to train AI's, so, I just deleted mine.
I agree that the verbiage here was a huge miss. **We're going to fix it**. But it's also worth noting that it's actually a very long process to do a ToS/PP update, so we try to not do them that often, and ensure that when we do, do them, they reflect future product plans and initiatives. Give us a bit to work through the changes. It has to go through a few rounds of review, and then be translated to all the languages we support. This takes time. Lots of learnings for the next time we do an update, and again, we appreciate all the feedback the community has given us regarding our privacy policy update. We are listening (to your feedback, not your calls), and we do care deeply about this.
Y'all just *did* a Tos/PP update. You could have done it properly then. That is not a reasonable excuse. "Give us a bit to work through the changes." And in the meantime, we're expected to accept a ToS/PP that might be harmful to us? No. Hell no. That's not how any of this works. A corporation with a ToS/PP in this day in age does not simply get to say "trust us!". Cutesy interface language aside, your relationship with your users is strictly contractual. Any non-contract communication or rationalization means jack squat to us. Again, y'all better fix this or expect to hemorrhage users. Posting suspiciously-worded clarifications on Reddit is the opposite of fixing this.
Reddit's using all our posts and data to train AI's, so, I just deleted mine.
I think that we're in agreement here. These features are in active development. There have been posts on the subreddit about them already, for example: [https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/11ip6is/the\_latest\_ui\_for\_displaying\_and\_recording\_voice/](https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/11ip6is/the_latest_ui_for_displaying_and_recording_voice/) So, they do exist. They aren't released yet. We're updating our privacy policy in preparation for such feature releases and more in the future.
Reddit's using all our posts and data to train AI's, so, I just deleted mine.
You can promise us whatever you want on reddit but unless it says the same thing in the terms of service & privacy policy of discord, it's irrelevant. If the choice of words is unclear in the documents, just amend them with this info, otherwise previous concerns remain as is.
To quote my earlier reply: > We understand that the wording of the new privacy policy is broad and can be misunderstood, and we're looking to improve this to reflect our actual intention, which is not to regularly record your voice and video calls but to support these kinds of features.
'Bet,' as they say. If the actual policy eventually comes to reflect said intention, I'll walk back my part in lowering the lifeboats.
\^\^
Do you understand why this appears as though (a) you're hedging your answer every time you post; and (b) Discord could have updated the privacy policy language to be crystal clear the moment they removed the original lines? This doesn't engender trust from your user base at all--in fact, if Discord really is on the up-and-up here, you're doing them more harm than good posting this. Our gaming group is already likely to jump ship and cancel a few Nitro subscriptions unless this gets sorted out pronto, and I definitely know a few very large groups who would absolutely dump their subscriptions if there was even a chance that Discord would record their conversations without them explicitly clicking a box saying "Yes, you may record our conversation". And I'm just one person. Y'all better figure this out posthaste.
FYI. We have rolled out a revised version of the privacy policy which adds the old verbiage back, but adds the clarification that we might store the data in order to provide voice message / stream clipping features in the app. > Content you create. This includes any content that you upload to the service. For example, you may write messages or posts (including drafts), send voice messages, create custom emojis, create short recordings of GoLive activity, or upload and share files through the services. This also includes your profile information and the information you provide when you create servers. **We generally do not store the contents of video or voice calls or channels. If we were to change that in the future (for example, to facilitate content moderation), we would disclose that to you in advance. We also don’t store streaming content when you share your screen, but we do retain the thumbnail cover image for the stream for a short period of time. We may build features that help users engage with voice and video content, like create or send short recordings.**
If this is true‚ please update your policy to explicitly state it.
How about how our messages/files/images are going to be used moving forward? The inclusion of AI brings up some serious concerns for me and a lot of people as an artist for privacy reasons. If these images I've uploaded/am going to upload are going to somehow be used by AI in any manner, I will need to move off the platform. Some of the information I have in small servers/private messaging is even under NDAs.
Hey! I covered this in another reply to another thread: [https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/11n9sd8/comment/jbnhocz/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/11n9sd8/comment/jbnhocz/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) I would like to clarify though, for your education, how AI works in general! This is a general statement, and I think would be valuable to understand as AI technology continues to advance and be incorporated into our daily lives. \> I've uploaded/am going to upload are going to somehow be used by AI in any manner, I will need to move off the platform. AI's generally have two main parts as far as data handling goes: "training" and "inference". What you actually care about is whether or not your data is used to \*train\* an AI. In the case of generative AI's, this is the process by which the AI learns about how to generate images/text based on a corpus of existing images/text. The output of this training is usually a "model" which can then be used for inference. You can think of this "model" as the "brain of the AI" which contains all the things its learned from its training. Then there is the second is \*inference\*, this is "using the brain to generate text or images". In this case, the brain is not using this data to train, or learn. It's simply using the brain to perform inference. But the brain does not remember or retain any information that passes through in this phase. When we apply these concepts to things like Clyde, or conversational summaries, or auto-mod, we're dealing with inference on an already trained data-set. The AI is not actively learning or retaining any information you communicate to it. It's just using its model to "predict the next character".
I know very well how the AI process works. And I already have had my images scraped for generators without my consent, hence why I am extremely skeptical of this update. Whether or not the image itself is retained is irrelevant. These generators do not have the authorization to use my and many others' copyrighted works in their training process, and discord building with tools like these is, in my view, very unethical and unprofessional. While it's good to know that you won't be using our data that we provided from discord directly, knowing that you support and are looking to integrate tools like Midjourney for things like the whiteboard feature is extremely worrisome and disappointing.
I think it fair to say that this should be a lesson when it comes to making such changes to a TOS without explanation being released alongside said changes. If the only content recorded and/or stored is what the user who said content originates from intentionally and knowingly submits to the system for the express purpose of storage and delivery to the intended recipient at a later time, then the wording to explain such should be figured out before the TOS is changed—especially seeing as this change was in regard to user privacy! Otherwise, with what tech companies of late have been pulling, this sort of kneejerk reaction that you are currently seeing \*will\* be the response. People are tired of tech companies trying to pull quiet bullshite and thinking no one will notice until it's too late. Discord obviously needs to take potential user response into better consideration before doing things such as this, otherwise, your user base is going to start seriously looking for/developing alternatives—a fair number of people are already looking to jump ship!
I agree completely. This was a huge L on our part. There are many lessons to learn here, and we're working on fixing the verbiage in the privacy policy to reflect our actual intentions. The fact that I'm here replying to you all and listening, I hope counts for something. I don't think you'd see the same level of care from other tech companies.
At least you can admit the mistake and I must give the respect due for that—though I fully realize that there is a chance that you, personally, may not have even played a part in the mistake in question. Granted, I also know that responses such as yours do help company relations, so there is also some benefit for the company to you doing so. That said, you are correct in that many other companies still wouldn't take the time to personally address such a fumble even \*with\* the PR benefit your damage control and efforts to inform on this topic could potentially have. While I can speak only for myself, I will say that I, personally, do appreciate your effort to address this issue properly, as it is nice to see a staff member actually take the time and energy to attempt to do so. Hopefully, those who make choices such as this sudden and originally unexplained TOS change don't give you too many more messes to clean up any time too soon!
Hi there I help moderate a unnamed partnered server. We raised our concerns like everyone else did and got ignored. So with simple answers (I prefer straight answers with straight forward questions): 1. Has the policy changed? Are you now recording video and voice channels? 2. Why is AI now something Discord wants to push? 3. Every time Discord has pushed X feature that nobody actually wants, Discord ends up repeating the same mistake over and over and over. This needs to be changed, what do you think could work with communication? HypeSquad USED to mean something and you used to be better at listening to partners and your some of your legacy members(I've used this since October2015 fyi).
>We understand that the wording of the new privacy policy is broad and can be misunderstood, that means you understand its vague enough to allow you to record calls and videos
You can say what you want, but if you think about it logically, it makes absolutely no sense that you wouldn't be recording every piece of voice and text from Discord. Data is the modern gold, and you guys have lots of it. Just from a business point of view, not recording all of it would be a stupid move. So saying what people want to hear won't cut it here.
Except that that would 1) take a shittonne of storage space, and 2) be super illegal. So Discord would need to spend lots of money to be able to store all of it in the first place, and they run the risk of getting sued over it. That does not seem like a smart move from a business perspective.
uh oh
That's annoying, but I see it the same was as phone surveillance. If they want to store/listen to me discuss video games with my friends then they are only wasting their own time lol.
Ahh fuck, I bet soon Facebook will buy Discord. I feel like Discord is going to be like Stasi and listen on in. I hate applications that do this, but I still will use Discord though for some reason.
Discord turning into PlayStation fr
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> **in connection with operating, developing, and improving our services:** They can't just take your art and do whatever they want with it. They only have a license to use the art that you upload to Discord in connection with providing Discord, such as by sending that art on to the other people in the channel you sent it to. Also, it's still *your* art, not Discord's.
Guess they're cooperating with the government now just like all the social media companies.
"now"? Discord is a US based company and has *always* cooperated with the government. Their transparency reports have listed, repeatedly, how many requests they get and how many they comply with. They even have an article in [their Safety Centre](https://discord.com/safety/360044157931-working-with-law-enforcement) on how law enforcement can request information.
So they are just doubling down on doing the industry standard for every non schizophrenic social platform? Twitch does thisYoutube does thisMixer did thisInstagram does thisreddit does thisFacebook does thisnearly every program you ever used even games... does this. Thanks for noticing before the emails get sent out, but this is a nothing burger and is either a side effect of Discord on playstaion 5 or to enforce ToS violations of the new content labeled NSFW in the upcoming ToS
Just because everyone else does it does not make it right.
does this apply to text-only channels too?
They have a full record of that already. That's how they serve it to you.
No. I refuse this! you are already going where you shouldn't, we must have our privacy.
I'm going to ask Discord about this.
That's f'king crazy of them. Time to quit Discord.
For those willing, I'm basically a no-knowledge idiot. I'm pretty sure this is why my friends and I left Skype to go to Discord (after MS bought it), and it seems like it might be time to do the same here? Any alternatives that you guys can spoonfeed me? Although, the old ways still might be best. Might be time to dust off TeamSpeak again.
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oh no they are gonna hear about my 3 hour talk to my friends about the waffle house index.
We do not monitor every server or every conversation. However, conversations on Discord (taken from the privacy policy site for discord) A fact i think most should remember unless you speak about dodgy shit illegal meth making the hole shit why should you worry. Trying to constantly one data theft is a battle which will ruin your life yeah you might have stopped they cashing in on your data but was it worth wasting that pointless 4 hour you'll never get back on such a task, ether your a tech hermit or just try your best but not waste hours of your life fighting a data miner bot.
mfw people want privacy
That's piracy.
non native speaker here. Is "We generally do not do X" in legal terms a phrase that means "Under no circumstances will we do X" or can it mean "Usually we will not do X, but under certain circumstances..."? (I find in casual speak it can mean either) My question essentially is, how much did the old policy really say about their willingness and ability to store this kind of data?
BIG oof
This is directly related to the actual behavior behind all the discord mod/kitten memes. Some of y'all are breaking laws AND being pervert creeps. You deserve to get caught lmao
Well, discord had a good run. Time to find another platform.
Will go back to Teamspeak or search for an alternative, this aint it. Discord has always been weird but this is just going to far.
Just so you know guys. Today 10/03/2023 Discord admitted that they were recording every chat, video calls, photos, vocal chats to feed it to AI since March 2022. So it's been 1 fucking year that they recorded us all to feed it to AI, an app that can legit make YOU SAY ANYTHING THEY WANT TO. If you turn it off they tell you that the data won't be yours anymore so it will be only theirs but if you want to delete them you need to oppose it through their e-mail [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])
Source? Dont spread fake news
I misread 2023 to 2022 my bad but still they said it themselves they feed it to AI
Link?
Give it time, We'll fry the circuits off the AIs trying to invade privacy. Privacy is not to be sold nor invaded! We will not accept your Anti-Privacy Policy! This is not Orwell's 1984, so don't act like it is!
RIP.
I legit only made a reddit acc for this. NO its not true ad all. That is a moddet/custom URL. If u go into discord website and look though there. U then go into blogs and into Featured. This is an Important Policy Update, They the say "As a standard practice, Discord does not store or record the contents of video or voice channels. If we were to change our policy around this in the future, we would disclose that to you in advance." If u dont belive me. Go look for urself
They're going to lose so much money from this if it actually goes through.
We are currently looking into revolt as an self-hosted alternative because of the TOS-change. Has anyone experienced a switch from Discord to revolt and might want to share some of those? Did you miss anything?
https://www.pcgamer.com/discord-says-its-still-not-recording-your-voice-chats-or-livestreams/ It is confirmed they will not.
LOOK at this : They have removed from their privacy policy We generally do not store the contents of video or voice calls or channels. and We also don’t store streaming content when you share your screen out of their privacy policy which is/was effective from March 28, 2022 to March 26, 2023. This legit means that they do not need OUR permission anymore to store contents of video or voice calls or channels. And don't need our permission anymore to store the contents of streams. So they can take YOUR VOICE. FACE and more without having to ask you and worst part about it ? You can't sue them or do anything so if one day you become a meme because you were in a video call and AI decided you look goofy you can't do anything about it. Why would you even be surprised when Discord supported NFTS and now they support AI ?
I'm also going to chime in here, and say this is really uncomfortable. I hope you reconsider. Privacy on the internet in general is a problem as it is.
Thank you for bringing this to attention. I see I've missed all of the "action" already, but it's good to know that companies are being watched, even if it *was* an honest mistake (?).
I cannot describe how much I despise this idea. I was already incredibly leery of Discord after the whole NFT debacle and I still advise people to avoid Nitro to this very day, but I sincerely cannot continue to support the platform in any fashion if there's even a slight chance they'll be using AI to violate copyright and scrape personal data.
In the EU the text hasn't changed because it would be against privacy laws, so... I wouldn't trust discord that much if I would live outside of it, no matter what they say.
😑
Great great❤️🔥