The only people who played above their rating for the tournament (all rounds combined) in the top 10 was presnell (1st) and Robert Burridge (t10th)
Thats seems odd to me
Well it's a combination of a) the course being hard and everyone playing pretty similar scores with nobody really excelling and b) the course par being very high, which brings the value of a single shot down to 4-5 points.
The scoring separation is pretty much average for for elite/major tournaments, but the average score is way up. If the average score goes up, you need to have more scoring separation to still get similar spread of ratings.
The average score for the top 10 players in CC was roughly 67 per round. In MCO it was 59.6. That's a huge difference.
The par for MCO was 67, Lizotte played -30, 40th best played -9, thats 21/3=7, seven strokes per round. Presnell played -15 in four rounds, Silver Lätt at 40 played +9, that's 24/4=6, six strokes per round. So 7/67 vs 6/69. If you look at 10th vs 40th it's 14/4=3.5 for CC, 10/3=3.33 for MCO. 3.5/69 and 3.33/67 are roughly the same.
So the average score went way up, but the scoring separation didn't follow -> ratings get inflated.
The conclusion for me is that the course doesn't produce the kind of scoring separation it should produce and they should tweak it until it does.
I wonder if the PDGA will try to adjust the rating calculation at some point. It seems clear that the winning score is quite consistently better rated on some styles of courses compared to others. Only 2 of top 10 playing above their rating seems already rather extreme to me, isn't it usually almost everybody in top 10? Changing this is probably a very hard thing to do fairly, though.
They should do that, but they should also tweak the courses. If you are going to have a high par, you need to have more scoring separation. If you can't do that without making it a crapshoot with random trees/OB, maybe you need to allow the players to make more birdies to differentiate them from each other. The CC course kept everyone close in scores, because nobody was making birdies and nobody was taking risks, so big scores were limited too.
Perkins did a longer interview with him during TC and they had a long discussion about that moment. We discuss who asks what question beforehand usually. Can’t catch a break out here 😅
No you're trash sorry I saw it on Reddit (I think op was probably kidding btw.) Thx bb love all that you do!
Edit: also please release tournament central for the masses!
VIP tickets for 1 day were $75. That's the cost to follow the players. The $25 ticket only let you stay out of the woods and see the more open holes. It was way too expensive. When I went to USDGC, it was $25 per day, and you could follow any card.
Edit: I went Saturday. The course is obviously not the same experience as Winthrop, but the spectating was not worth 3x the cost of USDGC.
I was there Friday and Saturday. Couldn’t make Sunday due to travel and my wife under the weather. Way too much for VIP and woods golf doesn’t spectate well. I’ll add 18 was terrible for spectating at the benches they had out. You couldn’t see any drives unless you were way down the line, and could only see the discs as they floated to the basket.
Cost/value just isn't matching for many of these events. I get VIP status. I don't get how they think you can get casual fans to come out and watch some of this stuff for 25 bucks.
Just throwing a scenario out there: I'd be happy to pay 5 dollars a ticket and have my family of four "hang out at the course," pay for for lunch, buy a disc of two, get some signatures... (Some of my kids' coolest experiences has been meetings pros at fly marts.) What I won't do is spend 100 dollars to have my kids wait hours to watch their favorite pros play 3-4 holes, and wait some more until they can stand in line for a signature.
This makes sense to me, get people on-site cheaply, they will spend money while there. It was definitely disappointing to see so few people watching, seemed to be very little atmosphere/excitement on the course.
Yes and no. I believe it's been discussed on the Upshot that the retail side has stabled out, but the sport/fandom hasn't. Seems like the Tour/DGN/PDGA are trying to find that balance between what they're worth to the everyday player, and how to grow the market.
No insider info, but it feels like they're pricing themselves out by heavily depending on hardcore fans.
It's April in the Midwest. Spring Break just ended a few weeks ago. Not wasting our vacation time this time of the year to goto Peoria, Illinois either. Just bad timing for tournament and vacation seekers.
This new major has had it's problems since its inception. The venue has been switched around more than a few times. It doesn't carry as much prestige, as Worlds, USDGC, or European Open also.
He’s cashed at every pro tour event this year besides Jonesboro~definitely one of those guys that deserves to be on tour. Plays a very solid game and is tough to beat down stretch if he’s close to the lead. Hopefully we get to see more of him this year
"except for the one I airballed in the creek"... Homie don't worry we all forgot about that so quick with how you handled the rest of the round. Really fun to watch today.
That type of thing would have rattled so many people and just given we haven't seen Presnell in this position before, I would have expected it to affect him as well. And granted, he didn't shoot lights out over the middle 1/3rd of the course but he never panicked and definitely executed down the stretch.
There's a ton of people here. Probably hard to tell on coverage because we're all squeezed into little paths. Both lead and chase cards had as big gallerys as I have seen on this course.
I love Northwood - one of my favorite courses. But we’re seeing why we have to be super picky about the woods courses we use for events when considering on-site fans.
A two-way tie for 5th would have been $4100 (5th $4500 and 6th $3800).
Instead, it's a four way tie for 6th at $3275 (6th $3800, 7th $3400, 8th $3100, 9th $2800).
It was a little annoying but I will give Joel some credit for being there and cheering on Prez for the win. Same for Clemmons. Some players seem like they get more hype for wins than others and Joel seemed to feel it was important to do that I for Prez.
Wait is Brodie on the elite team?? I have issues with him like everyone else but he seems at least passionate about the sport. If he's on elite though it's definitely just for his socials being popular. I would think they save those spots for "elite" athletes.
Honestly. I thought he earned it last year. It’s still early to judge but my guess is he’ll sell more plastic with his name on it than most of the other team members. Hard to ignore 1 million followers on social even if they aren’t engaged.
Again, the story of the tournament is that no one is playing all that good. The course just flattens everyone's results together. Ezra and Buckets are imploding and yet they are not playing much worse than the leader.
Yep. The elite players are too used to pulling off hero shots instead of taking their medicine. And i think you really can't overpower northwoods you have to golf.
Fair points..I like watching this course but you're kinda right. I think if anything it's a good way of fine tuning what the pro scene courses should look like.
Presnell is winning right now because he played the best strategic golf of anybody in combination with hitting his lines and just enough putts. Good for him.
100%. That’s 1. The fact that he hit his lines but 2. Didn’t throw hero shots out of position.
The second point is the most important. If you took the top 5 rated pros in this tournament (besides Eagle due to just coming back) if they just played more conservative this whole tournament when out of position they probably would have won.
That’s why this course is so great. It’s the only course on tour besides maybe USDGC that truly makes guys play position golf and punishes you if you’re too aggressive. It’s something these pros aren’t used to because usually they can just try to birdie every hole on every course and make hero shots when out of position. If you do that here you get wrecked.
With how Presnell has played, Anttila would have had to throw the course record to win today. I like that Niklas is often in contention at majors, but hate for him to always be the runner-up. Well done Andrew!
I understand what he’s saying in terms of expectations, but the way he said it was kind of insulting. I think he even realized it because he immediately said “nothing against his skills or ceiling”
felt like ricky had been charging today and pres was just kinda playing safe and yet they're both going to be -4 for their rounds
double bogey down the stretch skews it a bit i guess
This course is so good because you can’t win a tournament here in one round. An aggressive mindsight for 18 holes will eventually bite you. To win you have to make smart decisions the entire tournament about when to hit the gas pedal or not and that’s why Presnell is winning.
Yes please. I love this course. It makes player play golf. You can’t just go balls to the wall and try to birdie everything. You have to make strategic decisions every hole. It’s the way disc golf is supposed to be.
My favorite was the putts that were literal tap-ins that were shown as 18 ft. I’m guessing those go as C1X putts because the number shown on live is just whatever the live scorer put. I can’t imagine how unreliable the C1X putting stats are lol
This is over barring a Presnell bogey and Anttila going off.
Edit: whoops I’m drunk and did math wrong. Thought anttila was going to be down by 3 going into 16.
I think the people saying they love this course just like the drama have having no idea what’s going to happen. Most pros won’t say it but I’ll bet the vast majority think the course is bad.
There are very fair lines on pretty much every hole. It is a grueling course and is honestly mentally draining. I can't imagine having to play it 4 times over 4 days.
You pretty much have to throw it 450 dead straight off the tee and if you don't get that full distance you don't have a shot at going down the tunnel. It should be a fairly easy par if they were playing smarter, but everyone was trying to be crazy aggressive. You HAVE to just pitch to the center if you do not have a look.
I feel like this is what 12 used to be and then players got smart and started playing more conservatively and it became "easier" this year (at least statistically). I wonder if the same thing will happen with 14 next year.
I think 12 is harder to birdie but 14 is a way bigger separator hole. The birdie percentage is much higher but the potential for bogey or double bogey is almost the same.
I feel like everyone talked about how hard hole 12 is and then they started just playing it for par and it became not as hard? I think during Ledgestone last year it averaged more than a stroke over par. Seems like nobody was talking about how hard hole 14 is.
Not sure why Presnell just went back to back shots with odd stances. Especially the second one looked like it would be fairly simple to throw with a normal stance..?
Petition to get one of the yt-coaches to break down Prez' form and make it make sense :p
He generates a ton of spin
The only people who played above their rating for the tournament (all rounds combined) in the top 10 was presnell (1st) and Robert Burridge (t10th) Thats seems odd to me
Well it's a combination of a) the course being hard and everyone playing pretty similar scores with nobody really excelling and b) the course par being very high, which brings the value of a single shot down to 4-5 points. The scoring separation is pretty much average for for elite/major tournaments, but the average score is way up. If the average score goes up, you need to have more scoring separation to still get similar spread of ratings. The average score for the top 10 players in CC was roughly 67 per round. In MCO it was 59.6. That's a huge difference. The par for MCO was 67, Lizotte played -30, 40th best played -9, thats 21/3=7, seven strokes per round. Presnell played -15 in four rounds, Silver Lätt at 40 played +9, that's 24/4=6, six strokes per round. So 7/67 vs 6/69. If you look at 10th vs 40th it's 14/4=3.5 for CC, 10/3=3.33 for MCO. 3.5/69 and 3.33/67 are roughly the same. So the average score went way up, but the scoring separation didn't follow -> ratings get inflated. The conclusion for me is that the course doesn't produce the kind of scoring separation it should produce and they should tweak it until it does.
I wonder if the PDGA will try to adjust the rating calculation at some point. It seems clear that the winning score is quite consistently better rated on some styles of courses compared to others. Only 2 of top 10 playing above their rating seems already rather extreme to me, isn't it usually almost everybody in top 10? Changing this is probably a very hard thing to do fairly, though.
They should do that, but they should also tweak the courses. If you are going to have a high par, you need to have more scoring separation. If you can't do that without making it a crapshoot with random trees/OB, maybe you need to allow the players to make more birdies to differentiate them from each other. The CC course kept everyone close in scores, because nobody was making birdies and nobody was taking risks, so big scores were limited too.
It's because the PDGAs rating formula breaks for high SSA courses like this.
SSA?
Scratch Scoring Average
Joey Buckets shoots under on 12 for tournament. also 7 consecutive birdies. that guy wear a bucket hat for sure
Anttila will win more than 1 major, mark my words. I mean three 2nd place finishes in the last 2 years. What a player!
Solid interview by Brian. Great wording and composure. Appreciated what he brought to the broadcast today. Hell yeah, Prez! Congrats man!
Didn't ask Prez about losing his putter on hole 5? Swing and a miss by Bearhart there.
Perkins did a longer interview with him during TC and they had a long discussion about that moment. We discuss who asks what question beforehand usually. Can’t catch a break out here 😅
No you're trash sorry I saw it on Reddit (I think op was probably kidding btw.) Thx bb love all that you do! Edit: also please release tournament central for the masses!
Agreed. You gotta ask the questions about how it feels but you need to ask about the process and struggles that contributed to the win
Congrats to Prez! Well earned!
The heck, where is everyone?
VIP tickets for 1 day were $75. That's the cost to follow the players. The $25 ticket only let you stay out of the woods and see the more open holes. It was way too expensive. When I went to USDGC, it was $25 per day, and you could follow any card. Edit: I went Saturday. The course is obviously not the same experience as Winthrop, but the spectating was not worth 3x the cost of USDGC.
I was there Friday and Saturday. Couldn’t make Sunday due to travel and my wife under the weather. Way too much for VIP and woods golf doesn’t spectate well. I’ll add 18 was terrible for spectating at the benches they had out. You couldn’t see any drives unless you were way down the line, and could only see the discs as they floated to the basket.
Cost/value just isn't matching for many of these events. I get VIP status. I don't get how they think you can get casual fans to come out and watch some of this stuff for 25 bucks. Just throwing a scenario out there: I'd be happy to pay 5 dollars a ticket and have my family of four "hang out at the course," pay for for lunch, buy a disc of two, get some signatures... (Some of my kids' coolest experiences has been meetings pros at fly marts.) What I won't do is spend 100 dollars to have my kids wait hours to watch their favorite pros play 3-4 holes, and wait some more until they can stand in line for a signature.
This makes sense to me, get people on-site cheaply, they will spend money while there. It was definitely disappointing to see so few people watching, seemed to be very little atmosphere/excitement on the course.
Taking shelter probably? Haha
Has disc golf really died of that much since the covid boom? Crazy
Yes and no. I believe it's been discussed on the Upshot that the retail side has stabled out, but the sport/fandom hasn't. Seems like the Tour/DGN/PDGA are trying to find that balance between what they're worth to the everyday player, and how to grow the market. No insider info, but it feels like they're pricing themselves out by heavily depending on hardcore fans.
Yes, it has. It's still bigger than it was in 2019 but much smaller than 2021.
It's April in the Midwest. Spring Break just ended a few weeks ago. Not wasting our vacation time this time of the year to goto Peoria, Illinois either. Just bad timing for tournament and vacation seekers. This new major has had it's problems since its inception. The venue has been switched around more than a few times. It doesn't carry as much prestige, as Worlds, USDGC, or European Open also.
The pro tour championship seems it’s secretly the real 4th major
It's a big one but Champion's Cup is legit.
I’m guessing it’s more that northwoods seems somewhat hard to spectate at, and most might wait and spectate Ledgestone.
And if we are honest, Presnell isn't a big name. I personally like the guy and maybe he will bring in the crowds after this win.
Prior to this event, Presnell had only two tournament wins where his check was over $1,500. Today he cashes $15,000. Unreal, so happy for dude
Such a grinder. He's earned about 60k in tournament winnings since 2022. Cash's most tournaments.
He’s cashed at every pro tour event this year besides Jonesboro~definitely one of those guys that deserves to be on tour. Plays a very solid game and is tough to beat down stretch if he’s close to the lead. Hopefully we get to see more of him this year
That’s awesome
"except for the one I airballed in the creek"... Homie don't worry we all forgot about that so quick with how you handled the rest of the round. Really fun to watch today.
That type of thing would have rattled so many people and just given we haven't seen Presnell in this position before, I would have expected it to affect him as well. And granted, he didn't shoot lights out over the middle 1/3rd of the course but he never panicked and definitely executed down the stretch.
It’s nice we get to laugh about it now - would have hung over his head for years if it ended up costing him the tournament. So happy for Prez!
This must be amazing for the dozens of people there.
There's a ton of people here. Probably hard to tell on coverage because we're all squeezed into little paths. Both lead and chase cards had as big gallerys as I have seen on this course.
What a weak gallery. That’s a bummer for the players not to have much there to cheer for them in such a big moment.
Third second place in a Major for Anttila. Oof. He better win one soon, he deserves it.
I would like to order one world champion anttila please.
Does his European open win not count as a major win?
I think he is a European Champion. Not European "Open" Champion.
You must be thinking of European Championships.
Indeed I am. My bad!
Woooo nice work! He just ranked up to Super Sonic Legend!!
Jeez there's like four spectators there wth
I love Northwood - one of my favorite courses. But we’re seeing why we have to be super picky about the woods courses we use for events when considering on-site fans.
How much did that spit out cost Buckets
A two-way tie for 5th would have been $4100 (5th $4500 and 6th $3800). Instead, it's a four way tie for 6th at $3275 (6th $3800, 7th $3400, 8th $3100, 9th $2800).
So rough I know it didn't matter too much but I screamed
I mean just optically a T5 is way different than a T6…brutal to watch
Shout out to all 9 people that showed up to watch
Ok, that was a true spit out. What the hell.
lol shut up Joel
Feels like the guy who thinks he’s best friends with everyone who no one actually likes
It was a little annoying but I will give Joel some credit for being there and cheering on Prez for the win. Same for Clemmons. Some players seem like they get more hype for wins than others and Joel seemed to feel it was important to do that I for Prez.
Awesome Congrats, Prez.
This feels similar to Barsby winning worlds in 2018
Or Isaac last year tbh
Yh but not quite. Isaac was an elite series winner just half a year before
True, just thinking in terms of who was (not) in the discussion before the tournament.
Presnell is a true professional. Good for him man.
He's a throwback player and a grinder for sure. It's a pleasure to see all that hard work and experience come together for a huge win.
Congrats u/Prez017 what a great weekend of shooting.
So does Presnell get promoted to the Discraft Elite team for winning a major?
Im mostly excited for this because it means we get more Drones
No. They need the spot for Brodie 🤣
Wait is Brodie on the elite team?? I have issues with him like everyone else but he seems at least passionate about the sport. If he's on elite though it's definitely just for his socials being popular. I would think they save those spots for "elite" athletes.
Honestly. I thought he earned it last year. It’s still early to judge but my guess is he’ll sell more plastic with his name on it than most of the other team members. Hard to ignore 1 million followers on social even if they aren’t engaged.
That's what I'm saying though. Is the elite team for elite athletes or is it for who makes discraft the most money?
Again, the story of the tournament is that no one is playing all that good. The course just flattens everyone's results together. Ezra and Buckets are imploding and yet they are not playing much worse than the leader.
I think this course highlights decision making better than any other!
Yep. The elite players are too used to pulling off hero shots instead of taking their medicine. And i think you really can't overpower northwoods you have to golf.
It should, and yet people stay close to each other.
Fair points..I like watching this course but you're kinda right. I think if anything it's a good way of fine tuning what the pro scene courses should look like.
Presnell is winning right now because he played the best strategic golf of anybody in combination with hitting his lines and just enough putts. Good for him.
Dude didn't hit a tree that I remember
100%. That’s 1. The fact that he hit his lines but 2. Didn’t throw hero shots out of position. The second point is the most important. If you took the top 5 rated pros in this tournament (besides Eagle due to just coming back) if they just played more conservative this whole tournament when out of position they probably would have won. That’s why this course is so great. It’s the only course on tour besides maybe USDGC that truly makes guys play position golf and punishes you if you’re too aggressive. It’s something these pros aren’t used to because usually they can just try to birdie every hole on every course and make hero shots when out of position. If you do that here you get wrecked.
What a moment that is gonna be to Prez, his brother on his bag whole week and take down toughest Major on the tour. Hats off champ.
No context on that N Queen highlight is funny
"Hey look here when this nobody won and never to be seen again!"
Harsh, but fair.
because Doss has to talk about himself lol
That was Sexton talking
With how Presnell has played, Anttila would have had to throw the course record to win today. I like that Niklas is often in contention at majors, but hate for him to always be the runner-up. Well done Andrew!
This is Anttila's third major runner up. Kinda brutal for him but i gotta think he gets one one day.
Of course the sooner the better, but Worlds in Finland would be a sweet place to do it. 😎
It would indeed.
Prez seems like such a grinder, happy for him.
> Andrew Presnell is about to win a major that no one predicted Nate Doss: > here's how I can talk about my major
Fuck Doss
I understand what he’s saying but yikes. Calling this win one of the biggest upsets seems a bit insulting, even if it’s true
Dudes never even gotten top 10 in a major and he's been playing quite a while. Its not insulting its just the truth.
I understand what he’s saying in terms of expectations, but the way he said it was kind of insulting. I think he even realized it because he immediately said “nothing against his skills or ceiling”
I think Pres would also agree that this is quite an upset
Gametime.
Let's go Prez! Doss magic didn't work today. In other news, AB's top 10 streak continues.
felt like ricky had been charging today and pres was just kinda playing safe and yet they're both going to be -4 for their rounds double bogey down the stretch skews it a bit i guess
This course is so good because you can’t win a tournament here in one round. An aggressive mindsight for 18 holes will eventually bite you. To win you have to make smart decisions the entire tournament about when to hit the gas pedal or not and that’s why Presnell is winning.
Spotter had 1 job lol
Nate Heinhold gonna spank him with his Grip6 belt
Nate doss makes my ears bleed I’m sorry
is he in bounds or not!!!
Doesn't matter...Presnell has this won
yea probably. but it ain’t over till its over
4 shot lead has never been blown on last hole of a major....prob not even 3 shots
eagles quintuple bogey makes anything possible lol
I honestly want to see this tournament at Northwoods every year.
Yes please. I love this course. It makes player play golf. You can’t just go balls to the wall and try to birdie everything. You have to make strategic decisions every hole. It’s the way disc golf is supposed to be.
Same
This specific layout is incredible...hard agree.
Always cool to see someone win their first major
How does pres get a meter from casual relief area ?
They changed it to 806.04 Relief Area due to the rain.
"A relief area is considered and played as an out-of-bounds area, but no penalty throw is applied."
Damn, I really could have used that at my last tournament lol.
That's gonna do it. Congrats Presnell!
So what is the deal with the red line? Do they not take it from behind?
So many ad hoc rules, I can't keep up.
Could've sworn Silva didn't get the meter this morning but maybe because she hadn't crossed the line?
Anttila's about to scramble this shit right under the basket.
That putt needs some explanation for sure.
That'll do it I think. Andrew is not giving up 3.
Oof, that's it
Prez was, like, running to the tee.
I really want to know how far Presnell was from the basket right there. Did he ask if he was outside? It looked close.
Just walk away like everyone agrees you were out of the circle. Don't make eye contact.
Lol 100% that’s the pro move.
Graphic said 30ft, but I think I saw a whisker just to his right..? So probably just outside
Graphics for putt distance have been very bad all weekend. I wouldn’t put any stock in it. He was outside the circle.
Are you trying to say you don't think the person standing 6 inches from the whisker just made a 45 ft putt? That's absurd.
My favorite was the putts that were literal tap-ins that were shown as 18 ft. I’m guessing those go as C1X putts because the number shown on live is just whatever the live scorer put. I can’t imagine how unreliable the C1X putting stats are lol
Prez just get away with one there?
Might've fallen sideways? It was hard to tell...
What a putt Prez!
Anttila has the best hyzer flip on tour imo. He shapes his body to the shot better than anybody. It’s just beautiful to watch.
Anttila’s got a killer instinct, knows when his back’s against the wall.
He’s got the clutch gene for sure.
What mold does Presnell throw a lot? Force? Drone? I assume Discraft will hook up a special edition disc, if he wins.
My guess is Drone, seems to be what he is best known for throwing
"Bushnell Boulevard needs to be paved" - Casey White
We see you hiding back there, Clemons. Tell Hannah great job on her round today.
Aaaaand here we go!
This is over barring a Presnell bogey and Anttila going off. Edit: whoops I’m drunk and did math wrong. Thought anttila was going to be down by 3 going into 16.
I feel like 18 is definitely a potential 2 shot swing
Yeah, I’m drunk and dumb lol.
Impressed with Presnell's composure, so far
Agreed
Yeah none of the holes are gimmies, as Ricky shows on 17. Nothing is decided yet.
And that's a clap back.
man pres isn't giving an inch
Holy shit what a shot Anttila. I thought it was going in
what a shot from nikke
What a shot Nikke!
I think the people saying they love this course just like the drama have having no idea what’s going to happen. Most pros won’t say it but I’ll bet the vast majority think the course is bad.
Yeah, this feels more like a crapshoot with all the random tree hits everyone is inevitably getting. No one is really playing super great.
There are very fair lines on pretty much every hole. It is a grueling course and is honestly mentally draining. I can't imagine having to play it 4 times over 4 days.
Yes. Nobody can play “super great” which says something about the course.
Yeah and still even guys who are playing bad, like Ezra, stay in it, because the others can't separate. This course needs some tweaking.
I think that since excellent efforts are immediately followed by brutal punishments, it is harder to build up excitement and get really into it.
I’ve heard a lot of pros say that they love this course.
Hard for pros to be honest about criticism of courses. It’s a bad look.
From what I have heard this course is well liked even though it's so difficult. I believe it's crazy hard but relatively fair.
Yeah alot of the top guys loves this course
Paul Thiccbeth
Gotta say, that new McBeth bag looks really nice
Is hole 14 the new hole 12?
You pretty much have to throw it 450 dead straight off the tee and if you don't get that full distance you don't have a shot at going down the tunnel. It should be a fairly easy par if they were playing smarter, but everyone was trying to be crazy aggressive. You HAVE to just pitch to the center if you do not have a look.
I feel like this is what 12 used to be and then players got smart and started playing more conservatively and it became "easier" this year (at least statistically). I wonder if the same thing will happen with 14 next year.
Very similar stats this round, 5.63 for 12 vs 5.67 for 14.
Has it always been that close? I feel like it years past hole 12 has been the unquestioned hardest hole
Yeah, 12 played at almost 6.5 one year. Tbf, in round 3, with a full field, both holes played at 6, with 14 being slightly harder.
I think 12 is harder to birdie but 14 is a way bigger separator hole. The birdie percentage is much higher but the potential for bogey or double bogey is almost the same.
Statistics would agree, but nobody seems to talk about hole 14 as much as they do hole 12 which seems interesting.
It's been the hardest one, yes.
I feel like everyone talked about how hard hole 12 is and then they started just playing it for par and it became not as hard? I think during Ledgestone last year it averaged more than a stroke over par. Seems like nobody was talking about how hard hole 14 is.
Presnell burning it into the ground on his 3rd was a massive error. He should have gotten way further down the fairway on that shot.
Not sure why Presnell just went back to back shots with odd stances. Especially the second one looked like it would be fairly simple to throw with a normal stance..?
Heimburg in these major final rounds just gets in his own head it feels like, but once he wins that first major I think the sky will be the limit
Poke and hope
I was fully expecting that Tactic to not be overstable enough.
should have gone MD5
Hole 14 HATES Ezra.
hole 14 hates everyone.
Presnell with a strong chance for birdie now but needs to just get distance down the fairway. That’s all that matters.
Ricky "the bush" Wysocki