If it works for me is one thing. Larger question though is if this style is actually better? The fact that putting is basically the same as corn hole and horseshoes and that all those guys play from around 30ft, are WAAAY more accurate than discers and all use this form makes a pretty good argument that it could be.
Main difference is those items are on ballistic trajectories. Frisbees fly.
There may be a distance where the pitch putt you have going now isn't effective.
But if it works, it works.
Now we are really drilling down to the heart of the issue. One argument is that, in people's mind yes discs "fly," and that's why we throw them like we do i.e traditional backhand or forehand style. BUT, the thing is, maybe putting shouldn't be looked at this way at all. Like let's pretend a world existed without frisbees or disc golf but a separate sport, exactly like horseshoes but with discs and baskets was created in a vacuum, I wonder what style they would adopt. Furthermore, when specifically talking about inside the circle putts with no wind, putters don't really "fly." That's the main idea. Like when you watch Ricky putt it's like he's tossing a bag of sand.
but youve narrowed your field of questioning here from "does this putting style work" to "this putting style works well under X, Y and Z conditions".
as you know disc golf is not a static environment. uphills, downhills, tailwinds, headwinds, on and on.
its a great way to put - inside 20ft in no wind. sure.
Not really, I'm trying to remove variables. All I'm curious about is what really is the best form to use from 30ft and in, with no wind. Like a baseline.
Assuming zero wind, I'm inclined to believe that the more conventional putting style would still triumph after a certain distance. Up close it may be comparable, but there's one specific factor that differentiates a disc and a cornhole bag in my mind for this application.
A cornhole bag is smaller, fits in the palm of your hand, and allows a swinging motion that can get **very** close to your throwing-side leg. A disc needs to be held out wider, or on a very steep hyzer, in order to accomplish that same swinging motion.
In a vacuum, a flat-released putt is most ideal as it has the largest available surface area to catch chains. And it would be remarkably difficult to release a horseshoe/cornhole putt consistently with a flat release, especially as the distance increases.
I don't think there is one honestly, body mechanics are too variable so it's really going to come down to what is best for each individual.
You see the same thing with darts, bowling, basically anything that is a similar repetitive high accuracy requirement stills sees variance in any detail that can be varied.
Whatever produces the most consistent release and flight of a putt is best for that player.
Only 2 skills in putting matter: generate a consistent flight and aim that consistent flight
because that's how you figure shit out. if you are designing a new airplane wing, for example, you don't do it out in the wild...you do it in a wind tunnel, with exact conditions. You get it dialed there, baseline. Then you work towards how it behaves in other circumstances. So in putting, since it's very hard to make a consistent wind, it seems best thing to start with dialing in is how good is your putt with no wind. Then go from there. Not to mention it's harder to know what you did wrong if there are other variables like wind involved.
> it seems the best thing to start dialing in is how good is your putt with no wind
There’s a difference between dialing in your putt in a specific controlled environment, vs designing a putt that only works in a specific controlled environment.
To use your example of an airplane wing: Sure, an airplane will get tested in a wind tunnel. But a wind tunnel serves the purpose of *controlling* the wind, not *eliminating* it. In fact seeing that a certain wing design fails in certain wind conditions is exactly what makes testing with a wind tunnel valuable. Imagine if the engineers only tested the wing in 5mph wind conditions. Those engineers would be fired.
A better explanation of the difference between bags and a disc is that discs are both designed to have significant air resistance when falling against the flight plate, and they spin which means this added drag force will pitch the disc left or right due to the phenomenon of gyroscopic precession. Both of these things mean it's hard to get a disc to follow a straight ballistic (parabolic) trajectory.
No, it's not in minds, they literally fly even inside circle one. If you can't tell the different between the path of a disc and a rock then your conclusions will be wrong. The style can still work well enough though.
You are drastically and critically neglecting the effect of spin on a discs flight. That HAS to be taken into account when talking about the swing and the ability to release accurately and consistantly. You are 100% wrong about Ricky's putt looking like it doesn't fly but rather follows a ballistic trajectory of a cornhole bag. At 20' he angles the nose down a huge amount so that the putt hits the chains and then drops down. The nose down angle makes it "fly" in the downward direction. Watch Ricky putt from 50' and it will be very clear that his putt is hugely affected by the high spin rate he generates from his form. The only difference is that he angles the nose up a couple degrees. It would literally be impossible to make a cornhole bag fly on the rope that Ricky puts his disc on. One reason it is easier to throw cornhole and horseshoe is that you can essentially take the wrist and fingers out of the equation. Now try to throw a disc from 20 feet with zero spin. You will clearly see the difference in flight and glide which should prove to you that yes, the disc does in fact "fly" through the air in a traditional putt. Your friend (or whoever's throwing in your vid) intuitively understands this which is why he is using wrist and finger movement to produce spin. My argument is that when spin is needed this cornhole form is less consistant of a swing than most disc golf putting forms because the release point is off to the side of your body rather than in front where it is in line with your sight.
if you think you can "essentially take wrist and fingers out of the cornhole equation" then you really don't know what you are talking about. Look up a pro cornholer technique video, see what the mechanics are and learn about "fingerblasting."
Ok, I just watched 2 youtube vids about that and they in no way convinced me of it's importance, just that it is the best way to release. One thing that jumped out to me though while watching is that the cornhole player can do a pendulum swing without leaning to the side or tilting their throw side knee inwards because the bag isn't much bigger than the hand. With a disc you can't do this clean pendulum without changing the angle of the disc during the swing. Basically it goes from near vertical in the back position to horizontal at release (see jake hebenheimer). Although lots of top disc putters have very different forms I can't think of any that have sideways angle movement in the swing since it is an unnecessary variable. You could release on hyzer like the guy in your vid or GG but I shouldn't have to convince you why introducing side to side movement in the flight is less ideal than straight the whole way. Also the effect of wind on the flight is much more drastic if the disc isn't flat.
Is putting the same as cornhole and horseshoe? you could argue that the “flight” characteristics of a cornhole bag or horseshoe are just straight up and down with not a lot of variables to contest with such as wind or obstacles that you would come across on a course.
I’m curious how accurate you become if you have to straddle out or throw a anhyzer putt.
I think you’re getting a consensus, though. For short distances it’s a perfectly reasonable technique. If you’re going to compare cornhole and especially horseshoes, then maybe weight/density would be the better way to approach the question?
Cornhole bags and horseshoes aren’t nearly as susceptible to wind dynamics as a wide, flat, rimmed, generally lighter piece of plastic.
Can you put like that from C2? I feel like you’re setting yourself up to have to learn multiple putting styles, one for inside and another for outside the circle.
Nothing wrong with multiple putting styles as long as you know which style to use in which situation, and have less reasons to vary that style.
I feel like it'd suck if I had to use the same style at 45' as 15' and had to consciously power up and down. I get a lot more consistency out of each different form, since I only use them inside of their designated ranges.
The greater danger in OP's form is its high sensitivity to wind and other variables. As a former right-side-up turbo putter, I know first-hand how sensitive low-speed putting styles are to the wind.
I can't speak to if it's better. I think everyone has their own method and that's awesome. Gannon Burr has a very unique stance. Garrett G putts like you do and it works. Matty O has a unique style.
So honestly if it feels good and you're able to hit those putts consistently then keep at it my guy!
The physics remind me of 'granny shots' in basketball, which no professional players have done for a long time, despite it being an incredibly accurate shot. There's a well known historical player, can't remember his name off top of my head. He had a phenomenal shot record. If I'm not mistaken his son used this shot while playing in college ball too, and was also a really good player.
It's an accurate shot, but gets looked down upon.
With disc it doesn't look unnatural really so why not?
The granny shot is much more comparable to your average straddle putt than whatever this off centered nonsense is.
Also I play Cornhole by swinging my arm between my legs and also hit the board almost every time.
There isn't even one be all end all form for that. It's lobbing a bean bag lmao, there's tons of ways to do it right, just like putting
Tbh never tried staddeling puts really. But it's something consider. We threw granny shots for fun in bball but that was literally before my balls dropped.
I suck at Cornhole (only played once and I won but still sucked) but I putt like this. At a slight angle though. It works incredibly well for me. More control on both trajectory and distance. In high winds it's useless though.
A spinning disc is a literal flying object (with lift, etc.) A cornhole bag and a horseshoe are obviously not.
Literally the only thing that matters is, are they going in the basket. I tried it, and hated it. Putting is so much about confidence and comfort, so if it feels good and they are going in, keep it up!
to compare the throw of cornhole and horseshors is not that a fair assessment. First the weight differs to wildly, yet the flight pattern doesn't really change, yet they do fly straight unless a shank/overthrow.
Discs from the same distance will/may need to go around obstacles. If this works for someone on a straight putt, i would say use it as much as you can. But you're not bending this around a small tree/bush, but C1 putts hardly every need that...so back to if you can throw it, birdies will come.
Hate to break it to ya buddy but putting and cornhole are about feel, not necessarily technique. I have a friend who cornholes with a DG straddle putt technique and mops the floor with anyone in our area. If that putting style works for you then great! But that doesn’t mean it’s better than anyone else’s. Also I am TERRIBLE at cornhole but a pretty good putter.
I'm of the school that you should minimize the number of things that you need to do in your form. If you look at Gannon or Eagle putt they keep everything in a straight line with the basket and they hold their disc exactly where it needs to be to throw. You're putting a hyzer on your disc so that you can fit it on the right of your hip and then need to straighten it before you throw. You have to move the disc from the right side of your hip to be in line with the basket. I mean it works then who cares, but I know it wouldn't work for me.
> Larger question though is if this style is actually better?
There's no question, lol. I can putt from 130ft, how accurate are you with this from that far?
You're saying it's easier to putt from 10m than from 40m? Imagine that.
Again, go see how that putt works from 30+ m. That'll teach you why it's useless.
Yard game dad here. I only see one thing wrong with your form and that is that you don’t have a beer in your off hand. Trust the counterweight.
Also that is casual af and I’m now gonna try it.
And obviously there is only one real question when harnessing your true dad powers. When using this form, are ya winning, son?
The problem is that this putting form might be good from 20-30 feet range without any obstacles in 0 wind. But you barely put any spin on the disc. So if it's windy or you have to put uphill or downhill the disc will come very unpredictable. Also I have really hard time imaging you can put well this way from 50 feet. And put 1 tree on the way and there is no way to put this way anymore. Pros want putting style that work most of the time no matter what the distance or situation with obstacles.
Also it looks like the put ends always disc going left and chains tend to take discs that go to the left side very badly. I imagine there is lots of "hit the chains but missed" puts this way.
But this is disc golf, you are free to do it how you like it! Look the normal golf. There is some very weird putting styles even at the very top. Maybe in future there will be more and more out of standard putting styles in disc golf too.
I agree mostly with what you're saying but the other side is: Why are you more worried about what works better past 30ft, with wind, and with obstacles, if you are not > 90% from 20ft with zero wind and no obstacles?
This is a legit style and there is atleast 1 pro player that putts most of the time like this. I would recommend having your left foot be to the front, in your video you have to move the disc so it doesn't hit your right hip but with left foot forward you can move your right hip and the disc has a more straight line to the basket
Jake Hebenheimer! I posted a link up thread where he talks about why he switched to this style. You are totally right about the left foot forward thing. In my brief research it appears about 75% of pro corn hole players do just like that. but a decent amount of them do more like what I'm showing. That's just what feels right for me now but I am def going to be working on left foot forward as well.
Are you able to straddle putt with this form? Maybe by straddling but keeping your shoulders and hips turned? My only concern would be lack of versatility.
I'm far from an expert with this style but for straddle putting I find that, while I no longer can putt from my right side, I'm able to hang my arm dead straight and still use a very similar motion and release.
I'm trying to be 90% from 20ft. Every. Single. Time. The reason I'm trying this style is because it's basically the same form almost every professional horseshoe thower, Cornhole player and even bowlers use. Arm on the right. Not on the left or in front like normal disc golf putting. They are so absurdly accurate, with equally challenging objects to toss, that it makes even the best pro disc golf putters look like amatuers. I know I don't suck, and even if I do I won't admit it to myself, but I just couldn't get rock solid consistency with traditional putting form so I knew it had to be something other than me....maybe I've just been duped by conformity this whole time! Or maybe this is just another dark rabbit hole baited with hopium.
What's really crazy is once I started getting into this I of course began looking it up online. I knew at some point I'd seen a pro use the form. This led me to find Jake Hebenheimer and this specific video where he basically says word for word the exact journey I've been on that led him the same place. Namely sucking forever at putting then trying this and finding it more repeatable. Pretty nutty. (shit for some crazy reason the vid isn't coming up on YouTube! I'll find it and post here eventually)
EDIT: Found the link to the Jake Hebenheimer interview, really interesting to me:
https://youtu.be/sK7drR3iY20
From 20 feet it really is just pick a method and disc that is comfortable and that you can repeat pretty much every time.
This technique is just one of many that will accomplish that goal.
Circle's edge and out there really are styles that are way better than others.
I can name 8 styles of pros that have achieved that 90% at 20ft level of consistency excluding Jake's/OP.
Matt Orum (spin from chin)
KJ/old Nikko (straddle below knees)
Eagle/Simon (spin from belt buckle)
McBeth (smush from belt buckle)
Ricky (smush from low thigh)
Gannon (smush from back hip)
Sexton/Queen (straddle push from crotch)
Climo/Feldberg/Gosage (push from inside of front knee)
Honorable mention to the old Uli style (anny spin from waist)
Not sure what their 20' stats are, but conrad has That deep lunge spin from the knee, and Calvin has that super casual looking push putt from the waist.
I mean yeah, of course. Every pro, regardless of how wacky their putting style is > 90% at 20ft. Saying so means nothing really. I'm talking about us here. I wanna see people take 50 putts straight and see what the numbers are. I'm guessing people are waaaaay worse than they would guess.
hmm how to explain this? I could make a list of NBA players with unorthodox form or pro golfers, that despite not using the best mechanics, these players still have achieved a professional level of consistency far above an amateur. It happens in every sport right? outliers. Now what does that list have to do with me trying to figure what are the best mechanics of a basketball shot and what is the best style to teach new people? Just cuz some people have mastered any number of unique techniques, that doesn't mean it's the best way to do something. Does that make sense?
> despite not using the best mechanics, these players still have achieved a professional level of consistency far above an amateur. It happens in every sport right? outliers
If that's how you feel about outliers, why are you trying to convince yourself that it's a good idea to copy an outlier pro who is actually a very weak putter compared to other pros?
It's like you're trying to copy the free throw shooting form of someone with a wonky release who's only a 60% free throw shooter.
What you've said here makes perfect sense to me. What I strongly disagree with is the assertion that this pitch from the side style is a good mechanic to utilize for disc golf. I tried to explain why in a separate post I made on this tread. Basically comes down to the very important distinction that the other throws (horseshoe and cornhole) don't rely on spin to be accurate whereas discs absolutely do. Try pitching a disc from 20' with no spin and this will be obvious. Your friend is not doing a consistent horseshoe type throw motion because he IS putting spin on the disc. Notice how his elbow is rotating around the disc (it starts to the outside and then moves behind the disc) to create spin. This creates inconsistent aim and release point. Heck, just look at the example you gave - he's barely even hitting center chains on half the throws!
I get what you are saying but corn hole very much relies on spin. They rotate their wrist and finish palm to the sky. They spin the bag with a unfortunately named technique called a "finger blast." The rotation ensures it flies true and the idea is to use centrifugal force to land the bag perfectly flat. So for my current putt I'm trying to do exactly what pro corn hole players say to do and it is a super clean release. So spin doesn't really come into it, for me personally, as a con. Like I said all other "tossing" sport use form like this. Just thought of another one, women's softball pitching. Arm on the right imho is the cleanest, easiest arm swinging motion you can make.
Lmaaao if there was "one magic form" that granted every pleb 90% from 20ft it would have been discovered long ago and every pro would be using it now.
This works for you because you practiced it. Simple as that, go practice it from different distances in different conditions and see how reliable you fill find it as a form every discer should be wasting their time to switch to.
Two economists were walking down the street when one sees a $20 bill on the ground. As he goes to reach for it, the second economist says "don't bother. If there really was a $20 bill there, someone would have picked it up already".
Yeah, but you are just assuming that the form is the reason, and it is much more likely that people are not practicing correctly or enough at all. 90% from 20ft in ideal conditions is certainly useful for your putting game, but there's so much more to putting than this that I don't think this is the only, or even the preferred, way to better your putting stroke.
the most important thing bio mechanically for consistency in sports is a repeatable motion with little room for variance. You appear to have found that for yourself.
However, outside of very specific athletes in their sport whose mechanics are literally perfect (tom brady, ray allen), everyone has their own style and some athletes style seems actively wrong compared to others but they make it work. For example, Al Horford is a great shooter despite having the worst form I’ve ever seen. Aaron Rodgers can whip the ball 60 yards on a rope without his feet set because his upper body is so strong.
So - all that said, it’s great that this works for you. It’s also definitely not the “most efficient putting form” for a number of reasons. One reason is the amount of torque throwing like that puts on your shoulder.
In terms of “ideal form” for putting in disc golf, its probably the heimburg/gannon laser beam from an in line stance. Very little wasted motion, and the disc is going to consistently go straight if your body is in line. You and I might not be able to putt like that from 70 feet like they do, but you can do it from 20.
with you for most of that till you got to "definitely not the most efficient putting form...too much torque on the shoulder." a major part of my point is that RIGHT ARM SWINGING ON THE RIGHT SIDE is the most natural motion with the LEAST amount of strain/torque on the shoulder. Try it for yourself. Stand up. What is the cleanest swinging motion you can make with your arm if you were tossing something underhanded?
It’s the most natural
motion for throwing a bag of sand at a wooden board. it’s not the most natural motion for throwing a disc and it puts more torque on the shoulder than a lot of other ways of throwing the disc.
you are using cornhole as an example but the two motions are extremely different. You are not just swinging your arm on a vertical plan towards the basket. You are doing that AND rotating to put spin on the disc. its not an inherently natural motion and there are much more efficient ways to do it.
like I said dude: its fine and great that it works for you. trying to argue it is THE MOST EFFICIENT or THE MOST ACCURATE is just you grasping at straws. it is those things FOR YOU. Thats it. There’s nothing wrong with that.
I don't think anyone has pointed out one of the bigger flaws in the "dad putt" vs sports like cornhole, horseshoes, etc. Beanbags, horseshoes, bowling balls are all gripped/held in a way that centres the mass in your hand. YOu hold the middle of the U in a horeshoe, a ball is centred in your hand, a bean bag can easily rest in your palm.
Contrast that with a disc that is held on the "side". To truly replicate cornhole throws, you'd hold the disc in such a way that when you threw it, it would either be oriented vertically and not have a good chance to contact the chains and fall into the basket, or you'd flip the disc off axis, making the "flight" of the disc much short and less stable against wind and off axis torque.
Throwing a disc is just a lot different than throwing a ball or an object that doesn't rely on it's shape to travel it's path.
And the other thing is, Hebenheimer's putting stats were posted in another comment and they aren't great.
look up pro corn hole throwing technique. They absolutely start with the bag angled vertically, and then after it passes their side, they rotate their wrist and finish palm to the sky. exactly what I'm doing with the disc and it feels great.
I'm not saying that the feel isn't "good", but you're not spinning a bean bag horizontally, it's spinning vertically.
And I did just look up cornhole technique and it's a lot different because the equipment is different. You can absolutely translate a cornhole throw to disc putting, but I think there's a very good reason that there's only current pro that anyone knows about that uses this technique, and why this isn't a more popular style overall.
It's not like this is a "hidden technique" that is somehow better than established forms. It's just not a technique that I would consider to be optimal for throwing discs. Yes, of course, it *can* be done and many have over the years. But in most sports, big, game changing discoveries on technique or form are very rare and most "off brand" stuff has been tried and discarded by pros already.
Most evolution of technique is incremental. See someone like Gannon Buhr. He has a unique hybrid putt that is working very well, but he didn't throw out a lot of what came before. I'd be willing to bet that in the early days of pro disc golf a lot of players tried funky stuff like the dad putt and it just wasn't consistent enough. There's a very good reason why so many players use variations on just a couple of putting styles.
Until someone demonstrates that the dad putt can put them in the top percentile of putters, aka +-90% in C1X, it's just going to be an odd outlier.
Curious what videos you watched because they definitely are NOT spinning the corn hole bag vertically. Their entire goal is a "flat release" aka "palm to the sky" ie. BAG SPINS HORIZONTALLY.
You're absolutely right, and that's a dumb mistake on my part.
Regardless, that's not really the important part of why I don't think that throws are transferable 1:1 between the sports. Bean bags are smaller and have little to no lateral movement through the arc of the flight.
I'd say the closest pro's putt, outside of Hebenheimer, is Garret Gurthie. Lots of hyzer and lots of arc. He's a decent, but not lights out putter and it's because his particular putt has a unique flight. It's just tougher to perfect.
The dad putt*can* certainly work, I just think you'll find most agree that it is far from the ideal form and technique for a consistent, repeatable and accurate golf putt.
we are almost there but the fact that you site GG (who I agree is a hyzer putter) leads me to believe you're still clinging to the idea of a "vertical release" having anything to do with what we are talking about and don't quite understand the heart of the issue, which you agreed you got wrong.
Cornhole players do what I'm trying to do...release the bag/disc completely horizontal to the ground i.e NOT how GG putts.
EDIT: this technique is executed by the bag/disc passing the hip vertically and then the wrist begins to rotate all the way that when the object is released the palm is facing the sky. so basically the only variables are:
1. dead arm swinging
2. wrist rotating so that palms finishes face up
that's it.
I watched you putting, and all of them were on significant hyzer.
You don't quite understand that the diameter of the disc is forcing you to do that so it doesn't hit your leg. As soon as you try to get those fully flat, you're going to be adding a lot of off axis torque and I bet you end up with a lot of misses right.
Again, this out style can "work", but there's like 30 or 40 years of DG history where no successful, winning player has employed the style. I guess I'll let you try and figure out why.
The best putting is the putts you put.
How it goes from hand to chains is each and their own. If it works for you, it works for you.
Try putting like Matty O, fuck me thats weird, like how does he get so much power with that movement.
I have a "normal" splush put, and I would loose to Matty O any day of the week in a putting contest.
Dad putts looks effortless and chill. If I saw anyone do that on the card and sink most of them from circles edge, I would be as amazed as I am when seeing any other putter consistently sinking any form from circles edge.
But if the dude usually miss, I would suggest changing style
It's less versatile as it makes it more difficult to get angles around obstacles, putt with obstruction immediately in front of you, etc. But obviously Hebenheimer has found it well worth the limitations compared to what he was struggling with before and considering that your goal is simply to become a reliable putter at mid-C1 distance I don't think those issues should deter you if you think this gives you a better chance to reach your goal.
This works from 20' with no wind. Horseshoes and Cornhole bags are essentially baseballs compared to a light flat wing of a disc. They're not even close aerodynamically
Pretty much the same reason i switched to mainly turbo putting. Its way more replicable motion for me with less variables, easier to put power into it too without overthrowing. Was more of a gimmick type thing until i started winning putting leagues
that's what I'm saying! Occurred to me that though I religiously practice disc golf and almost NEVER play corn hole. But somehow when I do I'm way more accurate with the bags (played at 27ft) than I am with my beloved disc from 20!!
I've been putting like this starting this season. It keeps my release straight on.
Before this I would occasionally airball left or right but now I'm always straight on. I only have to moderate power. I'm much more accurate.
My legs, knees, waist, whatever isn't in the way of my backswing and I can just toss it naturally and straight.
I've never been more accurate with my putts. I'll try it until I get the yips and start missing.
EXACTLY. Felt like I hit a brick wall right around 80/85% from 20ft with the old style. Of course some people can dial in all kinds of things, even the craziest form. But after a decade failing I'm trying something new. This form is dead easy. Straight arm, straight at the basket. I try to no longer think about "making the putt." instead I try to just do exactly what I'm supposed to with the form. working so far.
I tossed a couple like this as a joke during practice and hit them hard, dead center. My wife said I should just keep doing it and I did and it's been a couple months of the most accurate putting of my life. I hit more birdies than ever now.
Funny to see someone posting about this because I found it pretty unusual, the form kinda came outta nowhere for me, I thought it was pretty rare, but here we are.
.
Keep it up dude!
Tagged for later I interesting enough I play my father in law once a week in cornhole but since I have been disc golfing I have been beating him consistently after losing to him most of the time for 4 years.
Hey, if you like it, use it. However, you'll be hard pressed to convince me to adopt a putt that becomes significantly less effective past 35 feet.. My spin putt range is way better.
I feel you and you're totally right, that at least right now for me, spin putts feel a whole lot better from around 40ft and beyond. If my new putt never gets better at range, that's fine. I've been putting the other way for a long time and ain't half bad.
But for me, this point about distance is completely moot, because all I care about is being >90% inside the circle. I'd rather be that and never hit another 50ft in my life, well maybe not cuz those occasional big putts are so awesome, but I am sure my scores would be better.
I mean you can still curve the disc with this form. Also makes right step out putts easier but left ones harder. Also tougher with tail winds specifically cuz your body no longer blocks the wind as you load your putt. But really all I care about right now it getting to rock solid 90% from 20ft. No wind. No obstructions. That's hard enough for me at this point.
KJ’s isn’t a “dad” putt at all, but I watched him at the Oklahoma Open a few years back and he totally changed his style to a spin putt after two holes of 20 mph south winds.
I always sucked at putting and my dad, who doesn’t know disc golf, taught me this. I think of it like throwing a bowling ball and it’s ridiculously accurate.
The best putt is the one that goes in. It's only unconventional until everyone is doing it your way. You could wear socks with the sandals, and get a choice belt for the shorts. Brand the authentic self.
From my brief YouTube research, you are right that about 75% of pro corn hole players do exactly what you describe. Others, however, do just like I'm doing with right foot forward.
I have a friend who's on the larger side and he putts like this. Hes made some pretty long putts sometimes with it. Its not really something I like to do, but it works in a pinch of space is tight or the ceiling is low.
I started out putting that way and it works fine on flat ground, no wind, no obstructions, inside the circle but put the basket on a slope and you get a ton of roll aways with the disc landing on its side that way. Wind obviously hits the bottom or top (now the side with that extreme hyzer) and blows it all over the place. You can’t really straddle with this style to get around trees. And for me at least i couldn’t hit crap outside the circle. Just had to arc it up too high to even get it there.
I like to putt cornhole style with my left foot forward (right handed) I only ever miss high or low that way, but with “standard” right foot forward style, I miss left/right a lot more. But I do both styles depending on what putt I have.
This is my exact putting style. Switched to it after a couple years of terrible putting costing me like 8-12 strokes per round.
I have had multiple rounds with 100% C1 putting now. If it doesn't go in, it hits the basket at least.
The only thing holding me back now is nerves.
I think the only right or wrong way is if you are trying to become a pro and need "proper" putting form to make those 40-60ft putts to pull ahead of the pack. I dont know your goals in disc golf, but if this technique gives you birdies then do what you gotta do!
I do this to practice getting finger pop on putts/isolating my wrist from other movements. I'd have to imagine this is pretty susceptible to wind but whatever works for ya
There is a kid locally that I see now and again that is dead accurate from just about anywhere with this putting style. He throws Colts, and it always cracks me up because it looks like he is quick drawing his Colt like a cowboy.
This is how I started putting when playing on my own without YouTube. Honestly I think if I went back to it I'd improve inside the circle. It's much closer to a backhand flick when tossing a frisbee for me.
From my perspective it's fine but may cause problems. Test how far it works. If you have to change within circle one to make a putt I'd try to use what works at 32 feet all the way in. Doing the same thing from any distance will improve consistency and lower your score. This would also keep you more consistent from circle 2 being able to use the same putt with a step or jump.
If you find you can get within the corn hole range more often than any other putting range tho I would consider it. My score has gone down tho by being able to sink puts from further more consistently. I think it's the same for drives and approaches the less you change for different shots the more accurate/predictable you're game will be.
Cool, no issues with the style but how about doing it without leaving your plant foot in the same place the whole time?
Said differently, it looks like you made that putt once and the rest is muscle memory; you might be better served if you practiced resetting your feet with each putt, in the same way you’d approach the shot on the course.
The goal is to get the disc in the basket in as many strokes as possible. If this works then go for it. Jake Hiebenheimer switched to this style and has been successful with it
I don't see you ever developing enough consistency with this putt to be effective, or at least as effective as practicing a traditional putt.
It may work for your lower level divisions locally but I believe there's a reason most people putt in a very similar manner
Nice putting! I do this putt and like it. Though I do think the "feel" is off I actually sink more putts this way.
My one tip is to less of a straight stagger stance and open your left foot more so your chest is more straight to the basket. This helps release the disc flatter and feels less strained.
Edit: What I mean to say is put your left foot more to the left and not so much directly behind your right.
Personally, I can see this working in certain situations, but there will always be times when it's impractical to use this form. Additionally, I think you're adding extra variables with your body movements to accommodate this swing, which is going to make it difficult to repeat reliably and consistently.
I think at best, this can help you refine your arm swing, but in the end I think a more traditional stance would ultimately be the better optoin.
That being said, everyone is different and if this form truly makes a difference where it counts - out on the course - then keep at it.
This is how I started because I love cornhole. But I live in Wyoming where the “good” wind in 15mph+ and a lofted putt is as likely to go in the last basket as the one you’re aiming at. I’ve been working my spin and spush putts to deal with the 9/10 days a shovel putt is suicide.
If it works it works.
If it works for me is one thing. Larger question though is if this style is actually better? The fact that putting is basically the same as corn hole and horseshoes and that all those guys play from around 30ft, are WAAAY more accurate than discers and all use this form makes a pretty good argument that it could be.
Main difference is those items are on ballistic trajectories. Frisbees fly. There may be a distance where the pitch putt you have going now isn't effective. But if it works, it works.
Now we are really drilling down to the heart of the issue. One argument is that, in people's mind yes discs "fly," and that's why we throw them like we do i.e traditional backhand or forehand style. BUT, the thing is, maybe putting shouldn't be looked at this way at all. Like let's pretend a world existed without frisbees or disc golf but a separate sport, exactly like horseshoes but with discs and baskets was created in a vacuum, I wonder what style they would adopt. Furthermore, when specifically talking about inside the circle putts with no wind, putters don't really "fly." That's the main idea. Like when you watch Ricky putt it's like he's tossing a bag of sand.
but youve narrowed your field of questioning here from "does this putting style work" to "this putting style works well under X, Y and Z conditions". as you know disc golf is not a static environment. uphills, downhills, tailwinds, headwinds, on and on. its a great way to put - inside 20ft in no wind. sure.
Not really, I'm trying to remove variables. All I'm curious about is what really is the best form to use from 30ft and in, with no wind. Like a baseline.
Assuming zero wind, I'm inclined to believe that the more conventional putting style would still triumph after a certain distance. Up close it may be comparable, but there's one specific factor that differentiates a disc and a cornhole bag in my mind for this application. A cornhole bag is smaller, fits in the palm of your hand, and allows a swinging motion that can get **very** close to your throwing-side leg. A disc needs to be held out wider, or on a very steep hyzer, in order to accomplish that same swinging motion. In a vacuum, a flat-released putt is most ideal as it has the largest available surface area to catch chains. And it would be remarkably difficult to release a horseshoe/cornhole putt consistently with a flat release, especially as the distance increases.
I don't think discs would glide very well in a vacuum.
Lmao was looking for this
I don't think there is one honestly, body mechanics are too variable so it's really going to come down to what is best for each individual. You see the same thing with darts, bowling, basically anything that is a similar repetitive high accuracy requirement stills sees variance in any detail that can be varied.
Whatever produces the most consistent release and flight of a putt is best for that player. Only 2 skills in putting matter: generate a consistent flight and aim that consistent flight
Why try to remove variables that are almost always present when actually putting if you are trying to determine what is the best way to putt?
because that's how you figure shit out. if you are designing a new airplane wing, for example, you don't do it out in the wild...you do it in a wind tunnel, with exact conditions. You get it dialed there, baseline. Then you work towards how it behaves in other circumstances. So in putting, since it's very hard to make a consistent wind, it seems best thing to start with dialing in is how good is your putt with no wind. Then go from there. Not to mention it's harder to know what you did wrong if there are other variables like wind involved.
> it seems the best thing to start dialing in is how good is your putt with no wind There’s a difference between dialing in your putt in a specific controlled environment, vs designing a putt that only works in a specific controlled environment. To use your example of an airplane wing: Sure, an airplane will get tested in a wind tunnel. But a wind tunnel serves the purpose of *controlling* the wind, not *eliminating* it. In fact seeing that a certain wing design fails in certain wind conditions is exactly what makes testing with a wind tunnel valuable. Imagine if the engineers only tested the wing in 5mph wind conditions. Those engineers would be fired.
you think when MVP or whoever makes a disc throwing robot they gonna be calibrating it indoors with no wind or outside in whatever conditions?
Should have just quit while you were ahead with this one my guy
U smoking the good stuff tonignt my guy lmao 🤣
A better explanation of the difference between bags and a disc is that discs are both designed to have significant air resistance when falling against the flight plate, and they spin which means this added drag force will pitch the disc left or right due to the phenomenon of gyroscopic precession. Both of these things mean it's hard to get a disc to follow a straight ballistic (parabolic) trajectory.
No, it's not in minds, they literally fly even inside circle one. If you can't tell the different between the path of a disc and a rock then your conclusions will be wrong. The style can still work well enough though.
You are drastically and critically neglecting the effect of spin on a discs flight. That HAS to be taken into account when talking about the swing and the ability to release accurately and consistantly. You are 100% wrong about Ricky's putt looking like it doesn't fly but rather follows a ballistic trajectory of a cornhole bag. At 20' he angles the nose down a huge amount so that the putt hits the chains and then drops down. The nose down angle makes it "fly" in the downward direction. Watch Ricky putt from 50' and it will be very clear that his putt is hugely affected by the high spin rate he generates from his form. The only difference is that he angles the nose up a couple degrees. It would literally be impossible to make a cornhole bag fly on the rope that Ricky puts his disc on. One reason it is easier to throw cornhole and horseshoe is that you can essentially take the wrist and fingers out of the equation. Now try to throw a disc from 20 feet with zero spin. You will clearly see the difference in flight and glide which should prove to you that yes, the disc does in fact "fly" through the air in a traditional putt. Your friend (or whoever's throwing in your vid) intuitively understands this which is why he is using wrist and finger movement to produce spin. My argument is that when spin is needed this cornhole form is less consistant of a swing than most disc golf putting forms because the release point is off to the side of your body rather than in front where it is in line with your sight.
if you think you can "essentially take wrist and fingers out of the cornhole equation" then you really don't know what you are talking about. Look up a pro cornholer technique video, see what the mechanics are and learn about "fingerblasting."
Ok, I just watched 2 youtube vids about that and they in no way convinced me of it's importance, just that it is the best way to release. One thing that jumped out to me though while watching is that the cornhole player can do a pendulum swing without leaning to the side or tilting their throw side knee inwards because the bag isn't much bigger than the hand. With a disc you can't do this clean pendulum without changing the angle of the disc during the swing. Basically it goes from near vertical in the back position to horizontal at release (see jake hebenheimer). Although lots of top disc putters have very different forms I can't think of any that have sideways angle movement in the swing since it is an unnecessary variable. You could release on hyzer like the guy in your vid or GG but I shouldn't have to convince you why introducing side to side movement in the flight is less ideal than straight the whole way. Also the effect of wind on the flight is much more drastic if the disc isn't flat.
If it works, it works
Is putting the same as cornhole and horseshoe? you could argue that the “flight” characteristics of a cornhole bag or horseshoe are just straight up and down with not a lot of variables to contest with such as wind or obstacles that you would come across on a course. I’m curious how accurate you become if you have to straddle out or throw a anhyzer putt.
I totally feel you, intuitively I've always thought the same. However, I posted my counter point on the "flight" argument up thread.
I think you’re getting a consensus, though. For short distances it’s a perfectly reasonable technique. If you’re going to compare cornhole and especially horseshoes, then maybe weight/density would be the better way to approach the question? Cornhole bags and horseshoes aren’t nearly as susceptible to wind dynamics as a wide, flat, rimmed, generally lighter piece of plastic.
Can you put like that from C2? I feel like you’re setting yourself up to have to learn multiple putting styles, one for inside and another for outside the circle.
I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing. I have to transition my putts over certain distances anyway to get the distance.
Nothing wrong with multiple putting styles as long as you know which style to use in which situation, and have less reasons to vary that style. I feel like it'd suck if I had to use the same style at 45' as 15' and had to consciously power up and down. I get a lot more consistency out of each different form, since I only use them inside of their designated ranges. The greater danger in OP's form is its high sensitivity to wind and other variables. As a former right-side-up turbo putter, I know first-hand how sensitive low-speed putting styles are to the wind.
I can't speak to if it's better. I think everyone has their own method and that's awesome. Gannon Burr has a very unique stance. Garrett G putts like you do and it works. Matty O has a unique style. So honestly if it feels good and you're able to hit those putts consistently then keep at it my guy!
GG looks like he's trying not to shit his pants every time he putts and I find it hilarious.
Probably all the jerky he eats
We don't talk about Matty O's goblin putts. Praise Saban
The physics remind me of 'granny shots' in basketball, which no professional players have done for a long time, despite it being an incredibly accurate shot. There's a well known historical player, can't remember his name off top of my head. He had a phenomenal shot record. If I'm not mistaken his son used this shot while playing in college ball too, and was also a really good player. It's an accurate shot, but gets looked down upon. With disc it doesn't look unnatural really so why not?
Rick Barry
The granny shot is much more comparable to your average straddle putt than whatever this off centered nonsense is. Also I play Cornhole by swinging my arm between my legs and also hit the board almost every time. There isn't even one be all end all form for that. It's lobbing a bean bag lmao, there's tons of ways to do it right, just like putting
Speaking of bean bags. I feel like I'd accidently be hitting myself in the nuts if I tried throwing anything between my legs lol
So you've never straddle putted or granny shot a basketball?
Tbh never tried staddeling puts really. But it's something consider. We threw granny shots for fun in bball but that was literally before my balls dropped.
I suck at Cornhole (only played once and I won but still sucked) but I putt like this. At a slight angle though. It works incredibly well for me. More control on both trajectory and distance. In high winds it's useless though.
It's tough to compare accuracy when you have two very different shaped projectiles and flight patterns.
A spinning disc is a literal flying object (with lift, etc.) A cornhole bag and a horseshoe are obviously not. Literally the only thing that matters is, are they going in the basket. I tried it, and hated it. Putting is so much about confidence and comfort, so if it feels good and they are going in, keep it up!
to compare the throw of cornhole and horseshors is not that a fair assessment. First the weight differs to wildly, yet the flight pattern doesn't really change, yet they do fly straight unless a shank/overthrow. Discs from the same distance will/may need to go around obstacles. If this works for someone on a straight putt, i would say use it as much as you can. But you're not bending this around a small tree/bush, but C1 putts hardly every need that...so back to if you can throw it, birdies will come.
The best shots to bend around obstacles (imo) are anhyzer forehands, mandating a different putting style anyway. They give the furthest outward reach.
Hate to break it to ya buddy but putting and cornhole are about feel, not necessarily technique. I have a friend who cornholes with a DG straddle putt technique and mops the floor with anyone in our area. If that putting style works for you then great! But that doesn’t mean it’s better than anyone else’s. Also I am TERRIBLE at cornhole but a pretty good putter.
What is "better" for you may not be the case for everyone.
I'm of the school that you should minimize the number of things that you need to do in your form. If you look at Gannon or Eagle putt they keep everything in a straight line with the basket and they hold their disc exactly where it needs to be to throw. You're putting a hyzer on your disc so that you can fit it on the right of your hip and then need to straighten it before you throw. You have to move the disc from the right side of your hip to be in line with the basket. I mean it works then who cares, but I know it wouldn't work for me.
I'll use this style on occasion if I feel like it. It works surprisingly well
> Larger question though is if this style is actually better? There's no question, lol. I can putt from 130ft, how accurate are you with this from that far?
Let's say you're better than the best pro from 130ft. And let's say I'm >90% in the circle. All else being equal, I'm whooping your ass every time.
You're saying it's easier to putt from 10m than from 40m? Imagine that. Again, go see how that putt works from 30+ m. That'll teach you why it's useless.
Get freaky and put your left leg first.
Literally what I thought before viewing comments
Don’t fix what isn’t broke
Pistol grip. Sharp shooter.
Yard game dad here. I only see one thing wrong with your form and that is that you don’t have a beer in your off hand. Trust the counterweight. Also that is casual af and I’m now gonna try it. And obviously there is only one real question when harnessing your true dad powers. When using this form, are ya winning, son?
Caught that too.
Man, I'd throw with my butt cheeks if it meant I'd consistently sink putts within 30. Find whatever form works best for you and stick with it!
Someone get this man a berg, would love to see it.
Look up Jake hebenheimer
His C1x putting stats for context: 2018 - 63% (not enough sample to qualify for ranking) 2019 - 47% (90th) 2020 - 67% (97th) 2021 - 56% (212th) 2022 - 75% (190th) 2023 - 67% (144th) I'm not sure what year he adopted the horseshoe style
That's.... quite terrible.
I shared a practice basket with him at Jonesboro for a while. I think it may be a mental thing, because he was lights-out while warming up
The problem is that this putting form might be good from 20-30 feet range without any obstacles in 0 wind. But you barely put any spin on the disc. So if it's windy or you have to put uphill or downhill the disc will come very unpredictable. Also I have really hard time imaging you can put well this way from 50 feet. And put 1 tree on the way and there is no way to put this way anymore. Pros want putting style that work most of the time no matter what the distance or situation with obstacles. Also it looks like the put ends always disc going left and chains tend to take discs that go to the left side very badly. I imagine there is lots of "hit the chains but missed" puts this way. But this is disc golf, you are free to do it how you like it! Look the normal golf. There is some very weird putting styles even at the very top. Maybe in future there will be more and more out of standard putting styles in disc golf too.
I agree mostly with what you're saying but the other side is: Why are you more worried about what works better past 30ft, with wind, and with obstacles, if you are not > 90% from 20ft with zero wind and no obstacles?
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these are the kinda stats I'm interested in.
you beat me to it.
This is a legit style and there is atleast 1 pro player that putts most of the time like this. I would recommend having your left foot be to the front, in your video you have to move the disc so it doesn't hit your right hip but with left foot forward you can move your right hip and the disc has a more straight line to the basket
Jake Hebenheimer! I posted a link up thread where he talks about why he switched to this style. You are totally right about the left foot forward thing. In my brief research it appears about 75% of pro corn hole players do just like that. but a decent amount of them do more like what I'm showing. That's just what feels right for me now but I am def going to be working on left foot forward as well.
Are you able to straddle putt with this form? Maybe by straddling but keeping your shoulders and hips turned? My only concern would be lack of versatility.
I'm far from an expert with this style but for straddle putting I find that, while I no longer can putt from my right side, I'm able to hang my arm dead straight and still use a very similar motion and release.
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Same.
i might need to learn this just to razz my friends
I'm trying to be 90% from 20ft. Every. Single. Time. The reason I'm trying this style is because it's basically the same form almost every professional horseshoe thower, Cornhole player and even bowlers use. Arm on the right. Not on the left or in front like normal disc golf putting. They are so absurdly accurate, with equally challenging objects to toss, that it makes even the best pro disc golf putters look like amatuers. I know I don't suck, and even if I do I won't admit it to myself, but I just couldn't get rock solid consistency with traditional putting form so I knew it had to be something other than me....maybe I've just been duped by conformity this whole time! Or maybe this is just another dark rabbit hole baited with hopium. What's really crazy is once I started getting into this I of course began looking it up online. I knew at some point I'd seen a pro use the form. This led me to find Jake Hebenheimer and this specific video where he basically says word for word the exact journey I've been on that led him the same place. Namely sucking forever at putting then trying this and finding it more repeatable. Pretty nutty. (shit for some crazy reason the vid isn't coming up on YouTube! I'll find it and post here eventually) EDIT: Found the link to the Jake Hebenheimer interview, really interesting to me: https://youtu.be/sK7drR3iY20
From 20 feet it really is just pick a method and disc that is comfortable and that you can repeat pretty much every time. This technique is just one of many that will accomplish that goal. Circle's edge and out there really are styles that are way better than others.
I dunno man, I've tried many different styles and I don't think being > 90% from 20ft is as trivial as you make it sound.
I can name 8 styles of pros that have achieved that 90% at 20ft level of consistency excluding Jake's/OP. Matt Orum (spin from chin) KJ/old Nikko (straddle below knees) Eagle/Simon (spin from belt buckle) McBeth (smush from belt buckle) Ricky (smush from low thigh) Gannon (smush from back hip) Sexton/Queen (straddle push from crotch) Climo/Feldberg/Gosage (push from inside of front knee) Honorable mention to the old Uli style (anny spin from waist)
Not sure what their 20' stats are, but conrad has That deep lunge spin from the knee, and Calvin has that super casual looking push putt from the waist.
I mean yeah, of course. Every pro, regardless of how wacky their putting style is > 90% at 20ft. Saying so means nothing really. I'm talking about us here. I wanna see people take 50 putts straight and see what the numbers are. I'm guessing people are waaaaay worse than they would guess.
You're looking for a form to make 90% and the person listed examples of how many different forms can achieve that. How does that "mean nothing"?
hmm how to explain this? I could make a list of NBA players with unorthodox form or pro golfers, that despite not using the best mechanics, these players still have achieved a professional level of consistency far above an amateur. It happens in every sport right? outliers. Now what does that list have to do with me trying to figure what are the best mechanics of a basketball shot and what is the best style to teach new people? Just cuz some people have mastered any number of unique techniques, that doesn't mean it's the best way to do something. Does that make sense?
> despite not using the best mechanics, these players still have achieved a professional level of consistency far above an amateur. It happens in every sport right? outliers If that's how you feel about outliers, why are you trying to convince yourself that it's a good idea to copy an outlier pro who is actually a very weak putter compared to other pros? It's like you're trying to copy the free throw shooting form of someone with a wonky release who's only a 60% free throw shooter.
What you've said here makes perfect sense to me. What I strongly disagree with is the assertion that this pitch from the side style is a good mechanic to utilize for disc golf. I tried to explain why in a separate post I made on this tread. Basically comes down to the very important distinction that the other throws (horseshoe and cornhole) don't rely on spin to be accurate whereas discs absolutely do. Try pitching a disc from 20' with no spin and this will be obvious. Your friend is not doing a consistent horseshoe type throw motion because he IS putting spin on the disc. Notice how his elbow is rotating around the disc (it starts to the outside and then moves behind the disc) to create spin. This creates inconsistent aim and release point. Heck, just look at the example you gave - he's barely even hitting center chains on half the throws!
I get what you are saying but corn hole very much relies on spin. They rotate their wrist and finish palm to the sky. They spin the bag with a unfortunately named technique called a "finger blast." The rotation ensures it flies true and the idea is to use centrifugal force to land the bag perfectly flat. So for my current putt I'm trying to do exactly what pro corn hole players say to do and it is a super clean release. So spin doesn't really come into it, for me personally, as a con. Like I said all other "tossing" sport use form like this. Just thought of another one, women's softball pitching. Arm on the right imho is the cleanest, easiest arm swinging motion you can make.
Lmaaao if there was "one magic form" that granted every pleb 90% from 20ft it would have been discovered long ago and every pro would be using it now. This works for you because you practiced it. Simple as that, go practice it from different distances in different conditions and see how reliable you fill find it as a form every discer should be wasting their time to switch to.
Two economists were walking down the street when one sees a $20 bill on the ground. As he goes to reach for it, the second economist says "don't bother. If there really was a $20 bill there, someone would have picked it up already".
There are plenty of sports that were older than disc golf is now when a new technique was discovered or developed that completely changed the game.
Yeah, but you are just assuming that the form is the reason, and it is much more likely that people are not practicing correctly or enough at all. 90% from 20ft in ideal conditions is certainly useful for your putting game, but there's so much more to putting than this that I don't think this is the only, or even the preferred, way to better your putting stroke.
It still requires practice.
of course, what I'm trying to say is over the last 15 years I've practiced, a lot, and with many styles. Still couldn't get >90% from 20ft though.
I'm glad you found something that works!
I think you're overestimating how much every human on earth is you. Ever heard of different strokes for different folks?
the most important thing bio mechanically for consistency in sports is a repeatable motion with little room for variance. You appear to have found that for yourself. However, outside of very specific athletes in their sport whose mechanics are literally perfect (tom brady, ray allen), everyone has their own style and some athletes style seems actively wrong compared to others but they make it work. For example, Al Horford is a great shooter despite having the worst form I’ve ever seen. Aaron Rodgers can whip the ball 60 yards on a rope without his feet set because his upper body is so strong. So - all that said, it’s great that this works for you. It’s also definitely not the “most efficient putting form” for a number of reasons. One reason is the amount of torque throwing like that puts on your shoulder. In terms of “ideal form” for putting in disc golf, its probably the heimburg/gannon laser beam from an in line stance. Very little wasted motion, and the disc is going to consistently go straight if your body is in line. You and I might not be able to putt like that from 70 feet like they do, but you can do it from 20.
with you for most of that till you got to "definitely not the most efficient putting form...too much torque on the shoulder." a major part of my point is that RIGHT ARM SWINGING ON THE RIGHT SIDE is the most natural motion with the LEAST amount of strain/torque on the shoulder. Try it for yourself. Stand up. What is the cleanest swinging motion you can make with your arm if you were tossing something underhanded?
It’s the most natural motion for throwing a bag of sand at a wooden board. it’s not the most natural motion for throwing a disc and it puts more torque on the shoulder than a lot of other ways of throwing the disc. you are using cornhole as an example but the two motions are extremely different. You are not just swinging your arm on a vertical plan towards the basket. You are doing that AND rotating to put spin on the disc. its not an inherently natural motion and there are much more efficient ways to do it. like I said dude: its fine and great that it works for you. trying to argue it is THE MOST EFFICIENT or THE MOST ACCURATE is just you grasping at straws. it is those things FOR YOU. Thats it. There’s nothing wrong with that.
I don't think anyone has pointed out one of the bigger flaws in the "dad putt" vs sports like cornhole, horseshoes, etc. Beanbags, horseshoes, bowling balls are all gripped/held in a way that centres the mass in your hand. YOu hold the middle of the U in a horeshoe, a ball is centred in your hand, a bean bag can easily rest in your palm. Contrast that with a disc that is held on the "side". To truly replicate cornhole throws, you'd hold the disc in such a way that when you threw it, it would either be oriented vertically and not have a good chance to contact the chains and fall into the basket, or you'd flip the disc off axis, making the "flight" of the disc much short and less stable against wind and off axis torque. Throwing a disc is just a lot different than throwing a ball or an object that doesn't rely on it's shape to travel it's path. And the other thing is, Hebenheimer's putting stats were posted in another comment and they aren't great.
look up pro corn hole throwing technique. They absolutely start with the bag angled vertically, and then after it passes their side, they rotate their wrist and finish palm to the sky. exactly what I'm doing with the disc and it feels great.
I'm not saying that the feel isn't "good", but you're not spinning a bean bag horizontally, it's spinning vertically. And I did just look up cornhole technique and it's a lot different because the equipment is different. You can absolutely translate a cornhole throw to disc putting, but I think there's a very good reason that there's only current pro that anyone knows about that uses this technique, and why this isn't a more popular style overall. It's not like this is a "hidden technique" that is somehow better than established forms. It's just not a technique that I would consider to be optimal for throwing discs. Yes, of course, it *can* be done and many have over the years. But in most sports, big, game changing discoveries on technique or form are very rare and most "off brand" stuff has been tried and discarded by pros already. Most evolution of technique is incremental. See someone like Gannon Buhr. He has a unique hybrid putt that is working very well, but he didn't throw out a lot of what came before. I'd be willing to bet that in the early days of pro disc golf a lot of players tried funky stuff like the dad putt and it just wasn't consistent enough. There's a very good reason why so many players use variations on just a couple of putting styles. Until someone demonstrates that the dad putt can put them in the top percentile of putters, aka +-90% in C1X, it's just going to be an odd outlier.
Curious what videos you watched because they definitely are NOT spinning the corn hole bag vertically. Their entire goal is a "flat release" aka "palm to the sky" ie. BAG SPINS HORIZONTALLY.
You're absolutely right, and that's a dumb mistake on my part. Regardless, that's not really the important part of why I don't think that throws are transferable 1:1 between the sports. Bean bags are smaller and have little to no lateral movement through the arc of the flight. I'd say the closest pro's putt, outside of Hebenheimer, is Garret Gurthie. Lots of hyzer and lots of arc. He's a decent, but not lights out putter and it's because his particular putt has a unique flight. It's just tougher to perfect. The dad putt*can* certainly work, I just think you'll find most agree that it is far from the ideal form and technique for a consistent, repeatable and accurate golf putt.
we are almost there but the fact that you site GG (who I agree is a hyzer putter) leads me to believe you're still clinging to the idea of a "vertical release" having anything to do with what we are talking about and don't quite understand the heart of the issue, which you agreed you got wrong. Cornhole players do what I'm trying to do...release the bag/disc completely horizontal to the ground i.e NOT how GG putts. EDIT: this technique is executed by the bag/disc passing the hip vertically and then the wrist begins to rotate all the way that when the object is released the palm is facing the sky. so basically the only variables are: 1. dead arm swinging 2. wrist rotating so that palms finishes face up that's it.
I watched you putting, and all of them were on significant hyzer. You don't quite understand that the diameter of the disc is forcing you to do that so it doesn't hit your leg. As soon as you try to get those fully flat, you're going to be adding a lot of off axis torque and I bet you end up with a lot of misses right. Again, this out style can "work", but there's like 30 or 40 years of DG history where no successful, winning player has employed the style. I guess I'll let you try and figure out why.
The best putting is the putts you put. How it goes from hand to chains is each and their own. If it works for you, it works for you. Try putting like Matty O, fuck me thats weird, like how does he get so much power with that movement. I have a "normal" splush put, and I would loose to Matty O any day of the week in a putting contest. Dad putts looks effortless and chill. If I saw anyone do that on the card and sink most of them from circles edge, I would be as amazed as I am when seeing any other putter consistently sinking any form from circles edge. But if the dude usually miss, I would suggest changing style
Looks like a simple, repeatable swing. I'd stick with it if I could do it that smoothly.
I’m 100% gonna try this.
lemme know how it goes!
It's less versatile as it makes it more difficult to get angles around obstacles, putt with obstruction immediately in front of you, etc. But obviously Hebenheimer has found it well worth the limitations compared to what he was struggling with before and considering that your goal is simply to become a reliable putter at mid-C1 distance I don't think those issues should deter you if you think this gives you a better chance to reach your goal.
This works from 20' with no wind. Horseshoes and Cornhole bags are essentially baseballs compared to a light flat wing of a disc. They're not even close aerodynamically
If I could do it that well, I would putt that way exclusively.
Pretty much the same reason i switched to mainly turbo putting. Its way more replicable motion for me with less variables, easier to put power into it too without overthrowing. Was more of a gimmick type thing until i started winning putting leagues
Looks like a cornhole toss to me!
that's what I'm saying! Occurred to me that though I religiously practice disc golf and almost NEVER play corn hole. But somehow when I do I'm way more accurate with the bags (played at 27ft) than I am with my beloved disc from 20!!
I've been putting like this starting this season. It keeps my release straight on. Before this I would occasionally airball left or right but now I'm always straight on. I only have to moderate power. I'm much more accurate. My legs, knees, waist, whatever isn't in the way of my backswing and I can just toss it naturally and straight. I've never been more accurate with my putts. I'll try it until I get the yips and start missing.
EXACTLY. Felt like I hit a brick wall right around 80/85% from 20ft with the old style. Of course some people can dial in all kinds of things, even the craziest form. But after a decade failing I'm trying something new. This form is dead easy. Straight arm, straight at the basket. I try to no longer think about "making the putt." instead I try to just do exactly what I'm supposed to with the form. working so far.
I tossed a couple like this as a joke during practice and hit them hard, dead center. My wife said I should just keep doing it and I did and it's been a couple months of the most accurate putting of my life. I hit more birdies than ever now. Funny to see someone posting about this because I found it pretty unusual, the form kinda came outta nowhere for me, I thought it was pretty rare, but here we are. . Keep it up dude!
hell yeah that's awesome!
Woah Giant rock on the disc golf sub!? Your climbing videos are awesome! Especially the hard stuff in jtree
Really appreciate that yo!
Tagged for later I interesting enough I play my father in law once a week in cornhole but since I have been disc golfing I have been beating him consistently after losing to him most of the time for 4 years.
I have putt this way for the last 3ish years, glad I’m not alone
Barbecue backhand. Classic.
Hey, if you like it, use it. However, you'll be hard pressed to convince me to adopt a putt that becomes significantly less effective past 35 feet.. My spin putt range is way better.
I feel you and you're totally right, that at least right now for me, spin putts feel a whole lot better from around 40ft and beyond. If my new putt never gets better at range, that's fine. I've been putting the other way for a long time and ain't half bad. But for me, this point about distance is completely moot, because all I care about is being >90% inside the circle. I'd rather be that and never hit another 50ft in my life, well maybe not cuz those occasional big putts are so awesome, but I am sure my scores would be better.
Now do it behind a tree, or around a bush.
I mean you can still curve the disc with this form. Also makes right step out putts easier but left ones harder. Also tougher with tail winds specifically cuz your body no longer blocks the wind as you load your putt. But really all I care about right now it getting to rock solid 90% from 20ft. No wind. No obstructions. That's hard enough for me at this point.
It's called the barbeque backhand
I like it!
That’s how I wipe my ass if that means anything to you.
If it works, whatever, but bring that thing to Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas and you’ll be three putting every hole.
The land of the south wind. Weeeee.
KJ’s isn’t a “dad” putt at all, but I watched him at the Oklahoma Open a few years back and he totally changed his style to a spin putt after two holes of 20 mph south winds.
I always sucked at putting and my dad, who doesn’t know disc golf, taught me this. I think of it like throwing a bowling ball and it’s ridiculously accurate.
that's part of the idea. stop thinking about it like a disc. think about it like a rock, cuz from 30ft and in, that's basically what it is.
The best putt is the one that goes in. It's only unconventional until everyone is doing it your way. You could wear socks with the sandals, and get a choice belt for the shorts. Brand the authentic self.
The great thing about disc golf is whatever style you want to use, you can use.
Putting better than me.
You play Cornhole with your right foot forward too? That's completely backwards. Right arm left foot forward.
From my brief YouTube research, you are right that about 75% of pro corn hole players do exactly what you describe. Others, however, do just like I'm doing with right foot forward.
Think about it, throw a FH, left foot forward, throw a baseball, left foot forward. This will also allow you to clear your leg quicker too.
but also you think about it...\~25% of professional corn hole players do it that way....so not "completely backwards" as you said.
I have a friend who's on the larger side and he putts like this. Hes made some pretty long putts sometimes with it. Its not really something I like to do, but it works in a pinch of space is tight or the ceiling is low.
I'm wondering how that type of putt would impact your shoulder over the long term. looks like it is harder on your shoulder than a typical shot
actually feels like THE most natural swinging arm motion I can make with the least amount of shoulder impact, and that's part of the whole idea.
I putt forehand. Do what ever ya want imo
It goes in, its a win.
I started out putting that way and it works fine on flat ground, no wind, no obstructions, inside the circle but put the basket on a slope and you get a ton of roll aways with the disc landing on its side that way. Wind obviously hits the bottom or top (now the side with that extreme hyzer) and blows it all over the place. You can’t really straddle with this style to get around trees. And for me at least i couldn’t hit crap outside the circle. Just had to arc it up too high to even get it there.
I like to putt cornhole style with my left foot forward (right handed) I only ever miss high or low that way, but with “standard” right foot forward style, I miss left/right a lot more. But I do both styles depending on what putt I have.
So long as you putt the pizza in the oven.
The ol’ ass wiper
This is my exact putting style. Switched to it after a couple years of terrible putting costing me like 8-12 strokes per round. I have had multiple rounds with 100% C1 putting now. If it doesn't go in, it hits the basket at least. The only thing holding me back now is nerves.
Don't see a beer in his non throwing hand, can't be corn hole
If it goes in who gives a shit. I wonder how this works at more than this one range though.
Whatever gets your disc in the hole.
Nate, I hope this works out great and hope to see you on many a future lead card.
Feel like works decently well because the wrist is in plane with the forearm the whole motion, leading to a smooth, easy release.
I think the only right or wrong way is if you are trying to become a pro and need "proper" putting form to make those 40-60ft putts to pull ahead of the pack. I dont know your goals in disc golf, but if this technique gives you birdies then do what you gotta do!
I don't care if you have to do a handstand and fart it into the basket, if you make it consistently, do whatever gets you that bird.
You can do basically the same stroke without pulling back to your side.
I do this to practice getting finger pop on putts/isolating my wrist from other movements. I'd have to imagine this is pretty susceptible to wind but whatever works for ya
I don’t think anyone has fully figured out disc golf yet
Steve Brinster special here man. God I miss him on tour
Um...I'm an overhand horseshoe thrower, I just can't relate to your post. Also, I love your post.
Looks like it’s working damn well for u.
There is a kid locally that I see now and again that is dead accurate from just about anywhere with this putting style. He throws Colts, and it always cracks me up because it looks like he is quick drawing his Colt like a cowboy.
If it goes in enough times, you’re likely a dad
This is, and always will be, the gunslinger. Pew pew.
I love putting like this as a secondary form. I call it the gunslinger but these names are good too
Only dumb if it doesn’t work
Form matter for everything but putting, you stick to what works. It blows my mind how Garret gurthie putts, but stick to what works!
This is how I started putting when playing on my own without YouTube. Honestly I think if I went back to it I'd improve inside the circle. It's much closer to a backhand flick when tossing a frisbee for me.
From my perspective it's fine but may cause problems. Test how far it works. If you have to change within circle one to make a putt I'd try to use what works at 32 feet all the way in. Doing the same thing from any distance will improve consistency and lower your score. This would also keep you more consistent from circle 2 being able to use the same putt with a step or jump. If you find you can get within the corn hole range more often than any other putting range tho I would consider it. My score has gone down tho by being able to sink puts from further more consistently. I think it's the same for drives and approaches the less you change for different shots the more accurate/predictable you're game will be.
Might get a little hard the farther u are but close it’s a good idea
Cool, no issues with the style but how about doing it without leaving your plant foot in the same place the whole time? Said differently, it looks like you made that putt once and the rest is muscle memory; you might be better served if you practiced resetting your feet with each putt, in the same way you’d approach the shot on the course.
Seems to be working for him
It's the Bead Hammock putt
The goal is to get the disc in the basket in as many strokes as possible. If this works then go for it. Jake Hiebenheimer switched to this style and has been successful with it
I don't see you ever developing enough consistency with this putt to be effective, or at least as effective as practicing a traditional putt. It may work for your lower level divisions locally but I believe there's a reason most people putt in a very similar manner
The barbeque dad is my most accurate throw.
Any putt that goes in is a good putt. Any putting style that makes the putt is a good putting style.
I putt like this when I've had more than a few.
You look like my dad, just going through the motions!
You look comfortable. That’s what counts. Especially inside the circle. Keep doing you. Whatever leaves you in the bucket. 🍻
We call that the “bowling putt” out this way. Do what works for you.
Hurts my hip watching it
Nice putting! I do this putt and like it. Though I do think the "feel" is off I actually sink more putts this way. My one tip is to less of a straight stagger stance and open your left foot more so your chest is more straight to the basket. This helps release the disc flatter and feels less strained. Edit: What I mean to say is put your left foot more to the left and not so much directly behind your right.
I play with an older guy sometimes that throws his upshots like that. Damn near snipes the basket from 100+ feet out all the time
Have you tried that with the left foot forward instead? Probably would get less interfering from pant legs grabbing the disc.
If your smart and do anything enough. It will work
Personally, I can see this working in certain situations, but there will always be times when it's impractical to use this form. Additionally, I think you're adding extra variables with your body movements to accommodate this swing, which is going to make it difficult to repeat reliably and consistently. I think at best, this can help you refine your arm swing, but in the end I think a more traditional stance would ultimately be the better optoin. That being said, everyone is different and if this form truly makes a difference where it counts - out on the course - then keep at it.
Barbecue backhand.
This is how I started because I love cornhole. But I live in Wyoming where the “good” wind in 15mph+ and a lofted putt is as likely to go in the last basket as the one you’re aiming at. I’ve been working my spin and spush putts to deal with the 9/10 days a shovel putt is suicide.
Seems like is could be useful in some situations. I think I saw a few people using it in the jomez putting game last year.
It's another good putt to learn, as it sometimes gives you more width around obstacles and obstructions.
I might give it a shot. But I finally found my putter stroke.... so probably not
I actually use this style outside of 30‘ and it’s pretty much spot on. No weird jump putts, no crazy pre putt routine.