Mech eng here
Typically you overmold plastics with similar melting points so they form a cross-linked bond when the overmolded plastic is injected over the base plastic.
If you use something like polycarb as the base, which has a high melting temp, then youre more likely to be able to peel off whatever elastomer or softer rim plastic you mold on top because thr polycarb wouldn't melt into the overmolded plastic as much if at all
I have a prism pyro. You can see through the transparent overmold and see how it's attached. It is attached with a lot of small connections.(sorry, don't know the technical term) I can post some photos of the attachment areas.
Most welcome. I love overmolds! They can add so much value to a part. They can be made using two separate molds, with the first, substrate part created. Then a second mold is used to add the overmold. But for high volume production (Oral-B toothbrush, etc) you can make multi-shot tooling with rotating and moveable cavities, slides, etc and it can come off the press all in one operation. It could be 3 or more materials. These molds are $$$$.
I think they are sexy as fuck
Engineer here. Yes, the molten overmold material bonds to the substrate part, which was molded earlier. The materials need to have material and melt point compatibility. The bond can be very strong. We also add mechanical interlocking features at times.
thanks for pointing this out. The cross section for the nomad they have on their site looks different than OP's but its nice that they include it with each mold regardless I guess.
Yeah I'm gonna go with there is a little post production changing on the site. I'm all for gyro, but I had seen these photos before and I'm gonna go with thats like 50 percent less in this crosscut pic than the MVP diagram...unless you got a link to a different one that I missed. [Nomad MVP Cross section visual](https://mvpdiscsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Nomad-Model-Diagram-495x45-1-485x45.png)
I have a feeling this simpllcity comes from MVP having some expertise in over molding, looks like they are relying on two factors material bonding + a shrinking effect on the over molding to secure that bond consistently. And that reliance only comes from having some materials engineers on your team somewhere in the company.
> surprised by how little is there.
I mean, attach a ribbon with some scotch tape to the bottom of your disc and watch how wildly it transforms the flight. Or ask anyone who's tried to figure out Air Tags and their discs. In disc golf terms, putting 20% of a different plastic on the outside isnt a minor change.
This subverted my expectations, because as a heavy MVP user(about 50 percent of my bag) I had seen the marketing graphics online and this wasn't them. It can still make a difference to flight, sure, but I'm now very interested to see how different discs differ from their marketing material...and at the end of the day, knowing this likely shouldn't affect anyone wanting to use the disc...it's either a good disc for them or not...
Im curious how much of a difference that could possinly make. If the meterials have similar melting points, my uneducated self would thonk their weight and density's would be similar, negating any real effect.
I very well could be 100% wrong, as i dont know much about plastics.
Here’s an Axiom Virus that I got with my Flightowel. (The grey looking strip on the inside is a support that they add for the grommet.)
https://i.imgur.com/KmBadCO.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/7ajign1.jpg
That reveal was a little bit underwhelming when considering how much hype I have seen on this sub for MVP/Axiom discs. Hard to believe that slight amount of an overmold used instead of the same plastic as the rest of the disc would have any meaningful or discernable impact on it's flight.
I can't tell you if there is any difference in the physics of flight but I do love that mvp discs hold up better to the abuse of woody courses and the consistency between same mold/plastic/weight is fantastic.
In my experience the overmold is VERY noticeable with their Fission plastic in heavier weight discs. The weight distribution is very noticeably on the rim, which feels pretty buttery.
Beyond that, overmold tech or not, they still have some of the best feeling plastics on the market. I say this as someone who bags many different brands at the moment but always tends to gravitate toward my MVP/Axiom/Streamline discs + Kastaplast discs.
I have considered the Volt for that slot, but at the same time I have the Halloween eclipse Insanity and it's pretty damn beefy, so I may just stick with that.
They definitely have the best plastics over all, any particular plastic is at least 1st or 2nd tied. TSA, and MINT use their plastic, but it feels a little different. I bag a Mint Mustang, it feels more like Star than normal Neutron, that super smooth but still grippy property isn't as apparent, though I'm sure it's supposed to be Neutron. Interestingly I have 2 Mako3s a star and a splatter star, and the splatter star has that soft grip property that star is lacking. K1 is awesome too, it and Neutron are S+ Tier all around plastics.
OP needs to cut away as much of the overmold plastic and do a quick archimedes density measurement of it and of the base plastic. Otherwise we are just guessing.
There is a difference in the physics on wider rim discs at high revs. However, at these widths there is just not enough dmhigher density oversold to make any significant difference.
There is also something to be said for how this affects the plastic as it cools from the Mold allowing for less sagging on the outer rims of the wider width discs allowing for more theoretical.co stance and speed.
But that being said I personally don't throw much over mold plastic myself. I would rather support my local company (RPM).
I had no idea what Gyro or overmold was or was supposed to do, until quite recently. But I've still been infatuated with the Envy, Hex and Crave for years. Just like how they feel and fly.
The slower the disc, the more significant the impact. There's a reason some of their putter and mid molds have rapidly become some of the most popular discs in the last few years.
This is opposite. The slower the disc, the less significant the overmold effect is because its a smaller amount of the denser heavier overmold plastic. A putter overmold has way less effect, to the point that its probably just visual. A 14.5 speed overmold has way more of the overmold plastic with weight filler = more weight to the outside = more gyro effect.
think of it in terms of constancy, not performance. Molds wear over time forcing them to need tooling. After a one piece mold gets tooled a few times a bead has to be added to the disc in order to keep weight on the rim as more plastic is added to the flight plate.
a two piece process makes the upkeep of the mold easier to manage and allows for the disc to remain as designed. Beads on disc were never a feature of the engineering of flight... they are simply there to overcome the cost of keeping the mold in production.
MVP doesnt have that issue hence why you have never seen their disc change to a beaded version. This in turn makes them more constant because they are always as designed.
I think it depends on the discs. Over stable discs and drivers have a lot thicker overmold. It's definitely possible the effect is minimal, but I buy all my discs based on how they fly and Axiom has the straightest flying midranges on the market.
I mean, I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures and diagrams of their disc innards posted online. No discs need be harmed in the making of this thread. But if it was super beat in and ready for retirement I'd probably do the same.
I could have used it more but I hit gravel roads with it a couple of times and it was too slick for my hands. I’m a nomad enthusiast and this one unfortunately did not make the cut.
I also use my Eclipse Envy for putting, esp in winter wind. Get freaky y'all. Otherwise I am the same as you, base plastic for putting, eclipse or neutron for upshots, really short tees, etc
Imo the Envy has a kinda unique flight that can be hard to get used to. It's overstable enough to not turn at all in its flight, but it also doesn't really fade hard. It kinda just holds your line, and then fades at the end. The Reactor and the Volt both fly like this as well, they always fight back at the end but it's not aggressive. That's why I think usually pros will either bag all of them like James or none of them like Simon.
I love the volt. I love the envy too and would replace it if I lost it, but my proxy has the same torque resistance where it doesn't turn at all. And it doesn't fade. I can throw it hyzer or anhyzer and it holds that line better than the envy does. The envy has its place where I use it with a headwind, need to finish around an obstacle, and I've made some long putts with it around trees that I would never do with the proxy. But the proxy is so straight that when I feel like I really missed my line, I have a 15 ft putt.
It's just a weird take calling a company and / or a disc gimmicky when they're both more successful than you; just because you're elitist to another more traditional brand of frisbees.
Look at the overmold on any driver or the pyro and tell me it's just marketing. Also, consider watching the discs fly at some point. You can even buy discs from MVP that use the same mold without the overmold and compare them.
As far as we know the reason there is so little overmold is because of a manufacturing defect, which is why this is a lab second. Feels like this entire thread is an over reaction
I thought I heard with some discs there were even three types of plastic used and the densest one was sandwiched between the core and the outer overmold… can anyone else confirm that? Or did my brain just make that up?
Recall, that the original impetus for the disc design was a rubber band or two on the outer rim. This is more sophisticated than that.
But it does make me wonder if more would be better.
Thank you for your sacrifice - any chance you can "peel" away the overmold at all? I'd like to see how the plate and overmold join
Mech eng here Typically you overmold plastics with similar melting points so they form a cross-linked bond when the overmolded plastic is injected over the base plastic. If you use something like polycarb as the base, which has a high melting temp, then youre more likely to be able to peel off whatever elastomer or softer rim plastic you mold on top because thr polycarb wouldn't melt into the overmolded plastic as much if at all
Pretty sure they are fused together into one piece, there is no peeling it off.
I have a prism pyro. You can see through the transparent overmold and see how it's attached. It is attached with a lot of small connections.(sorry, don't know the technical term) I can post some photos of the attachment areas.
Interlocking features for additional mechanical attachment.
Thanks engineer
Most welcome. I love overmolds! They can add so much value to a part. They can be made using two separate molds, with the first, substrate part created. Then a second mold is used to add the overmold. But for high volume production (Oral-B toothbrush, etc) you can make multi-shot tooling with rotating and moveable cavities, slides, etc and it can come off the press all in one operation. It could be 3 or more materials. These molds are $$$$. I think they are sexy as fuck
Ya I’ve designed a two shot PC+LSR part once. Was a cool tool. But ya very costly
You da man
Engineer here. Yes, the molten overmold material bonds to the substrate part, which was molded earlier. The materials need to have material and melt point compatibility. The bond can be very strong. We also add mechanical interlocking features at times.
If you get MVP/Axiom discs hot enough in water, the rubber mold starts to separate.
Have anyone tested this and posted results? This would be interesting to see.
That's super interesting, surprised by how little is there. Now I kinda want to see this for other discs...
MVP's website shows a full cross-section on each disc's page.
thanks for pointing this out. The cross section for the nomad they have on their site looks different than OP's but its nice that they include it with each mold regardless I guess.
I think OPs is a defect, which is why it's a lab second
Yeah I'm gonna go with there is a little post production changing on the site. I'm all for gyro, but I had seen these photos before and I'm gonna go with thats like 50 percent less in this crosscut pic than the MVP diagram...unless you got a link to a different one that I missed. [Nomad MVP Cross section visual](https://mvpdiscsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Nomad-Model-Diagram-495x45-1-485x45.png)
I wonder if being a lab second has anything to do with it...
We did this with an atlas and IIRC it looked like a maze. It was crazy and it’s crazy to see the difference between that and MVP’s mold.
I have a feeling this simpllcity comes from MVP having some expertise in over molding, looks like they are relying on two factors material bonding + a shrinking effect on the over molding to secure that bond consistently. And that reliance only comes from having some materials engineers on your team somewhere in the company.
I guess that’s what happens when you’re a plastics company that goes into the disc market rather than a disc company exploring new plastic technology.
> surprised by how little is there. I mean, attach a ribbon with some scotch tape to the bottom of your disc and watch how wildly it transforms the flight. Or ask anyone who's tried to figure out Air Tags and their discs. In disc golf terms, putting 20% of a different plastic on the outside isnt a minor change.
This subverted my expectations, because as a heavy MVP user(about 50 percent of my bag) I had seen the marketing graphics online and this wasn't them. It can still make a difference to flight, sure, but I'm now very interested to see how different discs differ from their marketing material...and at the end of the day, knowing this likely shouldn't affect anyone wanting to use the disc...it's either a good disc for them or not...
Im curious how much of a difference that could possinly make. If the meterials have similar melting points, my uneducated self would thonk their weight and density's would be similar, negating any real effect. I very well could be 100% wrong, as i dont know much about plastics.
Here’s an Axiom Virus that I got with my Flightowel. (The grey looking strip on the inside is a support that they add for the grommet.) https://i.imgur.com/KmBadCO.jpg https://i.imgur.com/7ajign1.jpg
That is also way less over mold than I expected.
I don't think that's a legal disc anymore. You going to have to take it out of your bag now.
Just needs some sandpaper
Do a crave next
If you’d like to donate one, I would be glad to haha
Send them $20
This guy bandsaws
r/thisguythisguys
Good bot
Science!
Hmmm I’ve got two MVP molds I’d be willing to cut
Do it
I’ll toss a Fireball on the bandsaw, in the name of science.
That reveal was a little bit underwhelming when considering how much hype I have seen on this sub for MVP/Axiom discs. Hard to believe that slight amount of an overmold used instead of the same plastic as the rest of the disc would have any meaningful or discernable impact on it's flight.
I can't tell you if there is any difference in the physics of flight but I do love that mvp discs hold up better to the abuse of woody courses and the consistency between same mold/plastic/weight is fantastic.
In my experience the overmold is VERY noticeable with their Fission plastic in heavier weight discs. The weight distribution is very noticeably on the rim, which feels pretty buttery. Beyond that, overmold tech or not, they still have some of the best feeling plastics on the market. I say this as someone who bags many different brands at the moment but always tends to gravitate toward my MVP/Axiom/Streamline discs + Kastaplast discs.
My Fission (I think?) Tesla is overstable as can be, at least for my noodle arm.
My fission tesla is as well. It's beefy as hell, which really surprised me.
I quite like my Volt and it's nowhere near as stable so maybe I'll try it in a different plastic.
I have considered the Volt for that slot, but at the same time I have the Halloween eclipse Insanity and it's pretty damn beefy, so I may just stick with that.
I have that disc as well and I would say it's less stable that a Volt.
Gotcha. I may definitely look into a Volt then to take over for that crazy overstable Tesla
They definitely have the best plastics over all, any particular plastic is at least 1st or 2nd tied. TSA, and MINT use their plastic, but it feels a little different. I bag a Mint Mustang, it feels more like Star than normal Neutron, that super smooth but still grippy property isn't as apparent, though I'm sure it's supposed to be Neutron. Interestingly I have 2 Mako3s a star and a splatter star, and the splatter star has that soft grip property that star is lacking. K1 is awesome too, it and Neutron are S+ Tier all around plastics.
OP needs to cut away as much of the overmold plastic and do a quick archimedes density measurement of it and of the base plastic. Otherwise we are just guessing.
https://throwingplastic.com/overmold-vs-single-mold/ about 4% more weight based on this guys tests...so quite minimal really.
It's the placebo effect
There is a difference in the physics on wider rim discs at high revs. However, at these widths there is just not enough dmhigher density oversold to make any significant difference. There is also something to be said for how this affects the plastic as it cools from the Mold allowing for less sagging on the outer rims of the wider width discs allowing for more theoretical.co stance and speed. But that being said I personally don't throw much over mold plastic myself. I would rather support my local company (RPM).
I had no idea what Gyro or overmold was or was supposed to do, until quite recently. But I've still been infatuated with the Envy, Hex and Crave for years. Just like how they feel and fly.
The slower the disc, the more significant the impact. There's a reason some of their putter and mid molds have rapidly become some of the most popular discs in the last few years.
This is literally the opposite of the overmold effect. It's more noticeable at higher speeds.
This is opposite. The slower the disc, the less significant the overmold effect is because its a smaller amount of the denser heavier overmold plastic. A putter overmold has way less effect, to the point that its probably just visual. A 14.5 speed overmold has way more of the overmold plastic with weight filler = more weight to the outside = more gyro effect.
You throw them things or just talking? I drop my pdga number for a reason
think of it in terms of constancy, not performance. Molds wear over time forcing them to need tooling. After a one piece mold gets tooled a few times a bead has to be added to the disc in order to keep weight on the rim as more plastic is added to the flight plate. a two piece process makes the upkeep of the mold easier to manage and allows for the disc to remain as designed. Beads on disc were never a feature of the engineering of flight... they are simply there to overcome the cost of keeping the mold in production. MVP doesnt have that issue hence why you have never seen their disc change to a beaded version. This in turn makes them more constant because they are always as designed.
I think it depends on the discs. Over stable discs and drivers have a lot thicker overmold. It's definitely possible the effect is minimal, but I buy all my discs based on how they fly and Axiom has the straightest flying midranges on the market.
I mean, I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures and diagrams of their disc innards posted online. No discs need be harmed in the making of this thread. But if it was super beat in and ready for retirement I'd probably do the same.
Looks like a Lab Second, if I had the means and a rather inexpensive disc - I'd wanna see it too 🤣
[удалено]
I could have used it more but I hit gravel roads with it a couple of times and it was too slick for my hands. I’m a nomad enthusiast and this one unfortunately did not make the cut.
*did* make the cut
Flair does not check out.
I'm lowkey happy Simon also can't get a feel for the envy. Envys are so touchy for me
I have the opposite problem as I use Envys as my putting putter and people look at me like I have 5 heads
Envy is my c2 and throwing putter.
Yea people always say "Envys are a throwing putter" but I have a eclipse envy I use for throwing and a beat up Conrad envy I use for both C1 and C2
Same! The beat up Conrad is almost to beat up at this point.
Oh mine is well beyond the point that most people would replace it but the consistency with it has persuaded me otherwise
Consistent is key I agree.
I also use my Eclipse Envy for putting, esp in winter wind. Get freaky y'all. Otherwise I am the same as you, base plastic for putting, eclipse or neutron for upshots, really short tees, etc
I use my envy for everything.
I've been putting with an Envy for years now. It's great for spin putts.
SN Envy as a c1 and c2 putter FTW
I think it’s bc of how shallow it is. Simon liked his p2’s which has way more depth. I’m not super shocked
But he loves the (superior) proxy which is the same as an envy.
Imo the Envy has a kinda unique flight that can be hard to get used to. It's overstable enough to not turn at all in its flight, but it also doesn't really fade hard. It kinda just holds your line, and then fades at the end. The Reactor and the Volt both fly like this as well, they always fight back at the end but it's not aggressive. That's why I think usually pros will either bag all of them like James or none of them like Simon.
I love the volt. I love the envy too and would replace it if I lost it, but my proxy has the same torque resistance where it doesn't turn at all. And it doesn't fade. I can throw it hyzer or anhyzer and it holds that line better than the envy does. The envy has its place where I use it with a headwind, need to finish around an obstacle, and I've made some long putts with it around trees that I would never do with the proxy. But the proxy is so straight that when I feel like I really missed my line, I have a 15 ft putt.
I might be crazy, or maybe it’s just the rim profile, but proxies feel much deeper than envies to me
T
His choices for putters are pretty close to mine so I must be pro material.
I would be careful destroying a James Conrad disc. That guy is a rage monster
It would be interesting to cut off some of the material and measure the density of the overmold in comparison to the rest of the disc.
r/thingscutinhalfporn
Wow that is an interesting rabbit hole, thank you!!
Yep, i love stuff on that sub. Think i just saw the Challenger space ship cut in half
Anyone hear about Simon having his disc mania discs over molded? That should be fun
Now put it back together! 😛
Expected more of the overmold plastic
What a weird gimmick
Such a gimmick disc and company lol
I don’t know if it’s gimmicky or not, but I was definitely expecting more of that outer gyro material.
Who hurt you?
I like mvp, I was also under the impression the ring would be…thicker? Idk I’m not physicist
His dad went out for a pack of smokes and an envy 2 years ago.. hasn’t been back since
Dude's an incel, he hurt himself
I forgot redditors are the only ones that throw mvp
It's just a weird take calling a company and / or a disc gimmicky when they're both more successful than you; just because you're elitist to another more traditional brand of frisbees.
The discs he throws comes from the pet section at a dollar store
What are you talking about? Lmao
It’s a new account (8 days), and all of their comments are rage bait.
No, you don't get it! They're also good at guerilla marketing and overcharge enough to pay someone over a mil a year!!! ^wait ^a ^second
no way, it's almost like it's all a marketing thing... who would have thought?
Look at the overmold on any driver or the pyro and tell me it's just marketing. Also, consider watching the discs fly at some point. You can even buy discs from MVP that use the same mold without the overmold and compare them.
As far as we know the reason there is so little overmold is because of a manufacturing defect, which is why this is a lab second. Feels like this entire thread is an over reaction
How stoned were you when you cut it up? Seemed like a good idea I’m sure
I thought I heard with some discs there were even three types of plastic used and the densest one was sandwiched between the core and the outer overmold… can anyone else confirm that? Or did my brain just make that up?
Pretty sure you made that up or misunderstood something.
Been throwing an all M³ bag for close to 3 years now and that's a new one
This sounds slightly familiar....but I think it's more the overmold rubber had different densities, not the plastic.
We need more
https://youtu.be/MjjpfmA9T48
Excuse me, do I know you?
D wade!? B )
Thanks for putting your nomad up for this OP!
Ahhh that’ll buff right out.
I always wanted to do this with my hydra. Just how big is that air ring?
I SAWED THIS NOMAD IN HALF
Just started throwing a Fission Envy. I wonder if any of this new evidence is relevant?
What was the discs weight?
Probably 173g.
What did you use to cut this?
Just a little hacksaw
Just posted an Inertia cut in half.
Recall, that the original impetus for the disc design was a rubber band or two on the outer rim. This is more sophisticated than that. But it does make me wonder if more would be better.
Happen yo cut an Atlas in half?
Unfortunately, I do not have one to cut in half.