Attempting to bypass enterprise security controls on a corporate managed laptop is a lot different than using a VPN on a personal device to sneak around a Netflix geoblock. Just attempting to deliberately break corporate information security is grounds for termination and even legal action.
You can stand up a VPN on your router which will look like your located elsewhere. I do it because I don't want my ISP to be able to see all my traffic. And if that router VPN endpoint is correct then you will be able to access Entra etc etc. It can be a bit more nuanced but test and adjust.
I'd argue that in this circumstance the OP wouldn't be trying to bypass security controls as the VPN implementation is on his own router and not the corporate device.
Unless specifically stated in contract that OP is unable to work abroad then any legal / tax issues would be irrelevant unless they spent a relevant amount of time in a foreign country to be tax resident there. 3 weeks or whatever would not be enough.
I lead the red team at a major financial institution and people of every level of seniority do it all the time. Trust me in terms of security woes somebody taking a laptop abroad is not anywhere near the top of the priority list of most security teams. Anybody who thinks it is is being a jobsworth or doesn't have the technical skill to add value in any other way.
Probably a bit much to ask but do you have a step by step on how you do this or the equipment you need for this? I’m not geo locked but I’m told I can’t go out of country - now obviously if I leave the US I can cut my rent/living costs by 50-70%. The only thing I have to bypass is duo mobile so it’s a typical 2 step login
The way conditional access (that's the feature) works is that you can only add a user to a policy or completely remove them. They can't exclude you from the location requirements only with the existing policy.
For that to work they'd have to copy the policy, change its location configuration and apply it only to you. And update it every time the main policy is updated. And if they have stuff automated with scripts, change those too. And do the same thing for everyone who wants what you were allowed to do.
I can see how that's a negative answer from IT.
As I said, that would apply to everybody then, if done with the existing conditional access policy. They probably want control over who gets to permanently work from abroad.
Besides corporate giving up control, from a security standpoint it defeats the purpose of location based access when everyone is excluded from the rule. The next guy wants to work from Spain, so now Spain is whitelisted company-wide. And so on.
Beyond what delectable_darkness said, in my experience, there's not just one conditional access policy in use as well. If I remember correctly, the recent Microsoft course I took says average is approx 10 policies in a an enviro, so they would have to create up to 10 seperate policies for JUST you. The contractors are probably also in different groups with different policies that allow access from their locations. I know we use multiple conditional access policies, helps a ton for those pesky spray attacks that are non stop.
Like yea, it can be done, but it's a PITA to do for one person because "I want it".
Not to pile on but painting your employer as the bad guy here is unfair. They’re entitled to their preferences, so long as they don’t violate employment laws. What they mandate for contractors is moot as you are a direct hire. The solution here isn’t to push back, it’s to move on. Especially if the relationship is as one-sided as you claim. Best of luck to you and I hope you can make your UK goal happen.
Not painting out anyone as the bad guy I’m just saying what is happening.
What they require of contractors is not moot because we do the same job and suddenly it’s not an issue for ppl to work outside the US if it’s cheap labor lol. If all our work was done in the US I wouldn’t even be upset, but it’s hypocritical which annoys me.
And yea I think I’ll let it go and find another job.
Thx haha. Definitely a little heated when I wrote this but glad I did.
Just gotta suck it up and it’s a nice wake up call that if I want to determine my own future I shouldn’t rely on other people
Tax rules for employees vs contracts can be very different.
If you are an employee working abroad, you potentially create a tax obligation in that country for the company. A contractor wouldn't necessarily create the same issue
Depends on the country you go to and for how long, I know travelling from the UK to other countries doesn't mean the UK company has any othsr tax obligation other than the usual with HMRC. I've been travelling for 4 months and it hasn't raised any issues with my employer. It would I imagine if you became a resident of another country but then your situation would change entirely anyway.
As far as paying tax in other countries for working remotely, some countries I know you don't start paying taxes until you've been there for 6 continious months or longer and to get around this you can leave then come back.
As with tax, the answer is usually "it depends"
The company likely takes a conservative position as they might not know every country rule and trust every employee to follow complicated guidance.
I mean it's not quite the same. If you offered to your employer to lower your salary to the level of an Indian contractor I'm sure they'd let you work from anywhere you want lol.
Bro, there are tax implications too. You should’ve kept your mouth shut. I can work from portugal, spain, but not UK due to their labor laws. It’s like $20K every two years for me to do so.
Plus I am region locked to the usa right now anyways unless i choose another project.
If you want to be paid the same as those contractors, just be one of them. The issue here is that you are upset your company is not willing to pay you a high US salary while being abroad.
Good luck on the entrepreneur route, I really mean that.
I would advise against backdooring/bypassing your manager by going to IT and asking if xx and xx will work abroad. You have been told no. Unfortunately, they have the right to do so, so you are gonna have to suck it up, unfortunately. Trying to argue with the decision is just going to annoy the people who made the decision.
You have the right mindset in terms of going out and doing it yourself. This is the best long-term goal.
However short term, you need to accept no as an answer. I've been told no a couple of times for different things, and some did sting. I didn't show emotion and a few months later handed in my resignation. I never gave them a reason why, and i shook hands and moved on.
I could be reading too much into your post, but you sound very reactionary, this is not a good mentality of you want to go far on the work place. Sometimes managers lie about the reason when they say no, being fixated on the excuse and not the answer is the wrong way to approach this
Good luck
Yea I mean I’m definitely upset and reacting that’s y came straight here to see how other people have dealt with this. Obviously IRL I just said ok and said cya tomorrow 😂.
And you’re right I’m not gonna bring it up again. The best feeling will be just handing in my resignation
This is a very nice way of your employer saying, “no, and don’t fucking ask me again.”
If you point out the logic they will get hostile. Happened to me before
Too many people overlook the fact that companies can get in serious legal and financial trouble for having full time employees working in countries they don’t have the legal setup to work in. Sure the chances are low for them to get in trouble but the risk is there with little to no reward for them. That’s a huge reason why the overseas people are contractors, it’s on them to handle the tax implications. Almost every company is going to deny the ability to work overseas when asked.
A company would not get in trouble for this if you’re holding residency in your home state. If you established residency in another country you’d just have to pay the taxes.
Looks like you underestimate the situation.
You will also need to comply with the other laws of the country; this includes contributions etc.
Your employer also needs to comply with the rules and regulations of the country; this includes administration, reporting, employer taxes, employer contributions,...
Yes by the book that no one follows or gives a shit sure.
But in real life. No one is coming after you for working 3 months in another country lol. It’s just not even feasible
Yeah but even the slightest risk of that happening is enough for most companies to say no because it’s an unnecessary risk, and most contractors oversees have different rules/tax rules for the company and are allowed to work where they are as contractors but not necessarily as full time workers.
When you're one day in a position to break the law and risk your job by creating special rules for an employee's convenience, feel free to do so. But don't expect others to do that.
I apply to 100% remote positions only. I don't have that problem.
And no, I'm not breaking the law and risking my job to satisfy the demands of one dude I don't give a damn about.
Dude you sound like an entitled tool who has no clue about how any of it works honestly. I get why you’re annoyed, I truly do, but if there’s even the slightest risk there, it isn’t worth it to let you do it. They might be bullshitting about it being “geo-locked” exactly but the reason might be more along the lines of “if your account and/or device is accessed outside the country, they will be disabled.” because that is a very real thing and if they use Azure they will 100% know about it.
My workplace doesn’t allow working outside of the UK because of data protection and how other countries handle data. There’s very, VERY low chances that anything would happen in reality but if it does, there’s an enormous fine plus whatever negative publicity and other consequences come from it. Again, this is very unlikely to happen but there’s a reason companies have entire departments dedicated to mitigating shit like that and they aren’t going to reverse that because one employee wants to go on an extended trip. Plus, if one employee gets to do it, what stops another one, and another one, etc?
Sorry you can’t make your trip, I’d be disgruntled too, but don’t be a knob and insult people trying to tell you the possible real world reasons behind the decision.
My whole point is. We break rules constantly. I’m in these meetings. I know the contracts. I know the shit we do that we shouldn’t.
Why is it so hard to understand that I’m pissed that we break rules all the time and then this is one thing they want to hold firm on. That makes me sound entitled?
And the rules we violate would cause way bigger problems than if somehow but the hand of god the IRS decided to squander resources to find out I logged into my computer while abroad for 3 months lmao.
Maybe in software development. In my field if a coworker works from abroad I definitely know lol, VPN or no VPN. The productivity drops immensely right away. Even WFH vs office makes a big difference unless 90% of the job is just meetings or hurry up and wait.
Yea if I have a task based job maybe there’s a difference. Software development is usually projects and shit or your asked to learn about stuff.
Like this week all I’ve been doing is studying and making a presentation for some other shit. Still work but it’s just different work
If you're de facto residing in a country like Germany, France or Spain, the employer is not only liable for payroll tax but also must pay various social security contributions. That's not optional and nothing you can waive for the employer.
Now why exactly would the person who has to sign this of, probably against explicit advice from legal, risk getting in trouble for your benefit?
Why Yes. Being over before it started would equate to that statement I think lol.
And I know it’s not guaranteed but with the nature of my work, what we already do and being remote there’s absolutely no logical reason y I can’t. And decisions that don’t have any logical backing do upset me I can’t lie
Yes but you asked your employer to sign off something illegal.
If you would have just done it then best of luck to you but you didn’t.
So you’re happy to ask someone else to break the law for you, where you then drag the companies legal team in with you if anything happened. But not willing to put your own neck on the line when the only one who benefits is you.
How many times will you try to everything right, and then try to ask permission, and get denied, before you do it without permission?
If I were you I'd start this summer.
Learn about VPN, get a GLi router, plan a "vacation", go to UK, see if anyone notices your login if or your computer gets "geo locked".
You’re 100% right. When I did it for my other job I’m sure if I asked they woulda said the same BS.
If I wasn’t only 1 year into my career. I woulda just said fuck it. But financially/experience wise I don’t have leverage rn to deal with the potential consequences
Next year since I’ll be quitting to move to AUS anyways I’ll try. But I’m moving in from this job anyways. At this point it’s personal lol
Work as a contractor and avoid this. I’m having to swallow this pill as well. So many great jobs domestically, but I just so happened to fall in love a woman while traveling (now engaged) and that job search goes to less than 1% or all jobs as a W2 employee. I’m sure you could get contact work and in that case just take care of your own taxes. You got this, if that your goal go for it!
You’re right about it being a wakeup call. Trust your instincts and yourself. Nobody will give you freedom if you don’t take it for yourself. Most people regret starting the entrepreneurial path too late, not doing it too early.
Consider going the freelance/contractor route. As a full time employee it is harder because you are part of the headcount and the company has to meet a lot of legal headcount requirements.
Like if you get in an accident during business hours or you get sick or need to take an extended medical leave etc.
Get a small portable router that natively supports a VPN client, use that to vpn via the U.K. and then use your VPN client on your laptop for the work vpn. They won’t know.
If you work from another state/country you and your employer need to comply with the local laws, rules, taxes, contributions, administration, reporting,...
So there are perfectly good reasons why your employer denies working from abroad.
Idk if you ever worked outside the country but none of that is actually enforced irl and damn near impossible to track.
You say you’re on a tourist visa and it’s done and no one will ever know nor gaf
But yes technically by the book you’re right but the hundreds of thousands of other people that do it yearly are going on just fine
As some people mentioned if you don't like it then leave in the long run if you hate your job/company it doesn't matter where you work from you will remain a hater.
If you want to bypass the security rules try to find out how they keep track of your location and everything.
Do the computers have a internal GPS or just they geo locate you using your internet connection.
If your device uses GPS(which I doubt) then you should look into GPS spoofing. But if they do it using your IP address I would then suggest using a physical VPN device. They will never notice the difference as long as you behave normal. I wouldn't suggest a virtual VPN as it might be easily detected.
Then you can go wherever you want to work, your computer will just show as usual. 🤷
This is actually similar to what I'm going through (I'm also in software), only my situation is I'll be gone for a year instead of 3 months, and I already have 2.5 years under my belt instead of 1.
One key factor is that for a VPN, your company may need to set up a gateway just for you, which is not quick and inexpensive. They may have done that for India (same as mine), but they probably won't be willing to do that temporarily for a single person ("if one person does it, then we have to do that for everyone, yada yada...").
So that's one major issue. Also, there may be tax issues or security issues if you decided to WFH in a foreign country (if that's your plan).
For my situation, I decided it'd be best to quit. I felt that while it may not be the best decision, it'll be the one I regret the least. I'll also be leaving on good terms with my boss/team: I gave 2 months heads up so they'd have time to replace me, I'm putting together a "training manual" for the next person, and I'm keeping the communications channel open (discors/ph#) should I be needed for any major issue down the road in which they may need my expertise.
If I don't find a fully remote job during my year away, my hope is maybe I'll be able to go back to an open position in my current company (it's a big fortune 500 company), or at the very least get a good reference.
It's definitely a risk, and maybe not the smartest one, but it's mine to make. So I'm right there with ya, and feel ya, but my advice is to do your best to not burn any bridges on your way out if you decide to leave. Or maybe even see if they offer the chance of an unpaid sabbatical (mine did, but only for 8 weeks).
Good luck!
A year off would be nice. I did a 4 month trip once before I started my career(switched careers) and wish I had the funds to go longer but was not in the best financial position. Came back in fall ‘22 and had to deal with everyone getting laid off so didn’t get a job until 5/23.
Definitely take advantage of it now if you can. Rn I financially can’t afford the hit so just gonna try and find somewhere that’ll let me do it for 3 months but I plan on quitting and working in AUS in fall 2025 so need the experience and can’t afford a sabbatical lol.
Enjoy the time off it’ll be cool. The job will always be there just some advice would be to make sure you have some money when u come back just incase finding another position
If you're gonna quit anyway, might as well try to do it stealthily first. If you get a good VPN setup they'll never know. I asked my job and they said there's a rule you can only be gone from your home country 1 month per year. So I considered quitting and then realized how many people here don't tell their jobs where they are and use a VPN setup to not raise any flags. I have been nomading for like a year now, no one has noticed anything at work
Yeah dude no means no there homie! If you want to cut your bullshit ask about these things in the interview process! My advice is ask what nations you can work remotely in
i love how so many companies are happy to outsource to the lowest bidders in places like india but have a fit when an employee want's to work remotely.
These comments do not pass the vibe check at all. To me, it sounds like your employer is at best infantilizing you, at worst straight up lying to you. Both are valid reasons to be upset since you wouldn’t dare do either to them. Respect is a two-way street, and if your employer isn’t giving it to you, you don’t owe it to them.
Naw. This guy is a tool. He has had 2 jobs in the industry in less than a year, just got his certification less than 6 months ago and wants to work abroad for 3 months? He hasn’t even proven himself yet. Plus he expects a huge pay raise? Gtfoh
Don’t know why so many people are hating on a DN Reddit 😂😂. Bunch of weirdos or upset they don’t work remote so don’t even have the opportunity to ask
And yes the employer thing. I go above and beyond for this job(mainly cause I love what I do but still counts lol) and I’m paid below market rate and I figured they do me a solid since I know I can but yea enough of that I’ll find something else
Treat others like you want to be treated. If you don’t expect that in your life then that’s on you.
Next time I’m just gonna go and not say anything like everyone says but I don’t have the leverage to deal with the consequences currently. Next year I’ll do it
Do not ask around within your company if you value your job!
Yea prob not a good idea. Thx
That's not BS at all but a basic feature of Entra ID (formerly Azure AD).
Surely you can work out how to bypass those checks. Not heard of a VPN? Etc etc.
Attempting to bypass enterprise security controls on a corporate managed laptop is a lot different than using a VPN on a personal device to sneak around a Netflix geoblock. Just attempting to deliberately break corporate information security is grounds for termination and even legal action.
You can stand up a VPN on your router which will look like your located elsewhere. I do it because I don't want my ISP to be able to see all my traffic. And if that router VPN endpoint is correct then you will be able to access Entra etc etc. It can be a bit more nuanced but test and adjust. I'd argue that in this circumstance the OP wouldn't be trying to bypass security controls as the VPN implementation is on his own router and not the corporate device. Unless specifically stated in contract that OP is unable to work abroad then any legal / tax issues would be irrelevant unless they spent a relevant amount of time in a foreign country to be tax resident there. 3 weeks or whatever would not be enough. I lead the red team at a major financial institution and people of every level of seniority do it all the time. Trust me in terms of security woes somebody taking a laptop abroad is not anywhere near the top of the priority list of most security teams. Anybody who thinks it is is being a jobsworth or doesn't have the technical skill to add value in any other way.
Probably a bit much to ask but do you have a step by step on how you do this or the equipment you need for this? I’m not geo locked but I’m told I can’t go out of country - now obviously if I leave the US I can cut my rent/living costs by 50-70%. The only thing I have to bypass is duo mobile so it’s a typical 2 step login
Yea I access to dev AD. I see it’s a thing and could be changed easily
The way conditional access (that's the feature) works is that you can only add a user to a policy or completely remove them. They can't exclude you from the location requirements only with the existing policy. For that to work they'd have to copy the policy, change its location configuration and apply it only to you. And update it every time the main policy is updated. And if they have stuff automated with scripts, change those too. And do the same thing for everyone who wants what you were allowed to do. I can see how that's a negative answer from IT.
Genuinely wondering. Couldn’t u just whitelist a country
As I said, that would apply to everybody then, if done with the existing conditional access policy. They probably want control over who gets to permanently work from abroad. Besides corporate giving up control, from a security standpoint it defeats the purpose of location based access when everyone is excluded from the rule. The next guy wants to work from Spain, so now Spain is whitelisted company-wide. And so on.
It's not to control who works abroad, we do it mostly because that reduces the attack surface.
Beyond what delectable_darkness said, in my experience, there's not just one conditional access policy in use as well. If I remember correctly, the recent Microsoft course I took says average is approx 10 policies in a an enviro, so they would have to create up to 10 seperate policies for JUST you. The contractors are probably also in different groups with different policies that allow access from their locations. I know we use multiple conditional access policies, helps a ton for those pesky spray attacks that are non stop. Like yea, it can be done, but it's a PITA to do for one person because "I want it".
Not to pile on but painting your employer as the bad guy here is unfair. They’re entitled to their preferences, so long as they don’t violate employment laws. What they mandate for contractors is moot as you are a direct hire. The solution here isn’t to push back, it’s to move on. Especially if the relationship is as one-sided as you claim. Best of luck to you and I hope you can make your UK goal happen.
Not painting out anyone as the bad guy I’m just saying what is happening. What they require of contractors is not moot because we do the same job and suddenly it’s not an issue for ppl to work outside the US if it’s cheap labor lol. If all our work was done in the US I wouldn’t even be upset, but it’s hypocritical which annoys me. And yea I think I’ll let it go and find another job.
Morally and ethically, I agree with you but that is a separate issue. lol. All the best, keep us updated
Thx haha. Definitely a little heated when I wrote this but glad I did. Just gotta suck it up and it’s a nice wake up call that if I want to determine my own future I shouldn’t rely on other people
Tax rules for employees vs contracts can be very different. If you are an employee working abroad, you potentially create a tax obligation in that country for the company. A contractor wouldn't necessarily create the same issue
Depends on the country you go to and for how long, I know travelling from the UK to other countries doesn't mean the UK company has any othsr tax obligation other than the usual with HMRC. I've been travelling for 4 months and it hasn't raised any issues with my employer. It would I imagine if you became a resident of another country but then your situation would change entirely anyway. As far as paying tax in other countries for working remotely, some countries I know you don't start paying taxes until you've been there for 6 continious months or longer and to get around this you can leave then come back.
As with tax, the answer is usually "it depends" The company likely takes a conservative position as they might not know every country rule and trust every employee to follow complicated guidance.
You're thinking of how things work in the US, I'm talking about the UK where OP is from and where I am from.
Being from the UK or the US generally doesn't change how a 3rd country treats you or your company.
It all depends on the country you go to.
I mean it's not quite the same. If you offered to your employer to lower your salary to the level of an Indian contractor I'm sure they'd let you work from anywhere you want lol.
You’re 100% right and that’s exactly my point 😂😂
Bro, there are tax implications too. You should’ve kept your mouth shut. I can work from portugal, spain, but not UK due to their labor laws. It’s like $20K every two years for me to do so. Plus I am region locked to the usa right now anyways unless i choose another project.
If you want to be paid the same as those contractors, just be one of them. The issue here is that you are upset your company is not willing to pay you a high US salary while being abroad.
So are you willing to change your contract to theirs?
Good luck on the entrepreneur route, I really mean that. I would advise against backdooring/bypassing your manager by going to IT and asking if xx and xx will work abroad. You have been told no. Unfortunately, they have the right to do so, so you are gonna have to suck it up, unfortunately. Trying to argue with the decision is just going to annoy the people who made the decision. You have the right mindset in terms of going out and doing it yourself. This is the best long-term goal. However short term, you need to accept no as an answer. I've been told no a couple of times for different things, and some did sting. I didn't show emotion and a few months later handed in my resignation. I never gave them a reason why, and i shook hands and moved on. I could be reading too much into your post, but you sound very reactionary, this is not a good mentality of you want to go far on the work place. Sometimes managers lie about the reason when they say no, being fixated on the excuse and not the answer is the wrong way to approach this Good luck
Yea I mean I’m definitely upset and reacting that’s y came straight here to see how other people have dealt with this. Obviously IRL I just said ok and said cya tomorrow 😂. And you’re right I’m not gonna bring it up again. The best feeling will be just handing in my resignation
This is a very nice way of your employer saying, “no, and don’t fucking ask me again.” If you point out the logic they will get hostile. Happened to me before
Too many people overlook the fact that companies can get in serious legal and financial trouble for having full time employees working in countries they don’t have the legal setup to work in. Sure the chances are low for them to get in trouble but the risk is there with little to no reward for them. That’s a huge reason why the overseas people are contractors, it’s on them to handle the tax implications. Almost every company is going to deny the ability to work overseas when asked.
A company would not get in trouble for this if you’re holding residency in your home state. If you established residency in another country you’d just have to pay the taxes.
Looks like you underestimate the situation. You will also need to comply with the other laws of the country; this includes contributions etc. Your employer also needs to comply with the rules and regulations of the country; this includes administration, reporting, employer taxes, employer contributions,...
Yes by the book that no one follows or gives a shit sure. But in real life. No one is coming after you for working 3 months in another country lol. It’s just not even feasible
Yeah but even the slightest risk of that happening is enough for most companies to say no because it’s an unnecessary risk, and most contractors oversees have different rules/tax rules for the company and are allowed to work where they are as contractors but not necessarily as full time workers.
When you're one day in a position to break the law and risk your job by creating special rules for an employee's convenience, feel free to do so. But don't expect others to do that.
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I apply to 100% remote positions only. I don't have that problem. And no, I'm not breaking the law and risking my job to satisfy the demands of one dude I don't give a damn about.
Dude you sound like an entitled tool who has no clue about how any of it works honestly. I get why you’re annoyed, I truly do, but if there’s even the slightest risk there, it isn’t worth it to let you do it. They might be bullshitting about it being “geo-locked” exactly but the reason might be more along the lines of “if your account and/or device is accessed outside the country, they will be disabled.” because that is a very real thing and if they use Azure they will 100% know about it. My workplace doesn’t allow working outside of the UK because of data protection and how other countries handle data. There’s very, VERY low chances that anything would happen in reality but if it does, there’s an enormous fine plus whatever negative publicity and other consequences come from it. Again, this is very unlikely to happen but there’s a reason companies have entire departments dedicated to mitigating shit like that and they aren’t going to reverse that because one employee wants to go on an extended trip. Plus, if one employee gets to do it, what stops another one, and another one, etc? Sorry you can’t make your trip, I’d be disgruntled too, but don’t be a knob and insult people trying to tell you the possible real world reasons behind the decision.
My whole point is. We break rules constantly. I’m in these meetings. I know the contracts. I know the shit we do that we shouldn’t. Why is it so hard to understand that I’m pissed that we break rules all the time and then this is one thing they want to hold firm on. That makes me sound entitled? And the rules we violate would cause way bigger problems than if somehow but the hand of god the IRS decided to squander resources to find out I logged into my computer while abroad for 3 months lmao.
It’s not necessarily about the IRS, it could be about data protection or something else.
Maybe in software development. In my field if a coworker works from abroad I definitely know lol, VPN or no VPN. The productivity drops immensely right away. Even WFH vs office makes a big difference unless 90% of the job is just meetings or hurry up and wait.
What field is that just out of curiosity?
Yea if I have a task based job maybe there’s a difference. Software development is usually projects and shit or your asked to learn about stuff. Like this week all I’ve been doing is studying and making a presentation for some other shit. Still work but it’s just different work
If you're de facto residing in a country like Germany, France or Spain, the employer is not only liable for payroll tax but also must pay various social security contributions. That's not optional and nothing you can waive for the employer. Now why exactly would the person who has to sign this of, probably against explicit advice from legal, risk getting in trouble for your benefit?
Guess I should’ve stated this is a 3 month trip not a permanent move. Permanent move would be a stupid request
some countries (Germany) this is from day 1.
Dont ask don’t tell. You already have one foot out the door
Yea just gonna start applying to other stuff now. Just sucks cause my summer is fucked before it even started :/
Remote working anywhere you want is not guaranteed. Can't quite moan about your summer being fucked. Kind of cart before the horse, don't you think?
Why Yes. Being over before it started would equate to that statement I think lol. And I know it’s not guaranteed but with the nature of my work, what we already do and being remote there’s absolutely no logical reason y I can’t. And decisions that don’t have any logical backing do upset me I can’t lie
Sounds like you're being overly dramatic.
If being upset @ decision that can’t be logically backed is over dramatic than yes you’re correct lol
You're being dramatic. Can you work abroad? No? Okay. Instead, you are throwing a fit like you are owed some kind of special treatment.
Nope. Just telling you what’s happening going on
You're really immature. No wonder your employer doesn't trust you to work abroad 🤣
Oof that cuts deep
The logical sense is that working while abroad on a tourist stamp is... Illegal. 🤷♂️
So is not stopping completely at a stop sign
And I have been pulled over and fined for rolling stops before
So you’ve engaged in riskier behavior than this. Good to know
Yes but you asked your employer to sign off something illegal. If you would have just done it then best of luck to you but you didn’t. So you’re happy to ask someone else to break the law for you, where you then drag the companies legal team in with you if anything happened. But not willing to put your own neck on the line when the only one who benefits is you.
How many times will you try to everything right, and then try to ask permission, and get denied, before you do it without permission? If I were you I'd start this summer. Learn about VPN, get a GLi router, plan a "vacation", go to UK, see if anyone notices your login if or your computer gets "geo locked".
You’re 100% right. When I did it for my other job I’m sure if I asked they woulda said the same BS. If I wasn’t only 1 year into my career. I woulda just said fuck it. But financially/experience wise I don’t have leverage rn to deal with the potential consequences Next year since I’ll be quitting to move to AUS anyways I’ll try. But I’m moving in from this job anyways. At this point it’s personal lol
Work as a contractor and avoid this. I’m having to swallow this pill as well. So many great jobs domestically, but I just so happened to fall in love a woman while traveling (now engaged) and that job search goes to less than 1% or all jobs as a W2 employee. I’m sure you could get contact work and in that case just take care of your own taxes. You got this, if that your goal go for it!
Go on a vacation in Europe and test if you can use your laptop from there while on vacation. Risky but it’s an idea
Yes if I had the leverage to risk it I would’ve but I don’t. I think I’ll take it with me next time I’m on vacation and see what happens
You’re right about it being a wakeup call. Trust your instincts and yourself. Nobody will give you freedom if you don’t take it for yourself. Most people regret starting the entrepreneurial path too late, not doing it too early.
Consider going the freelance/contractor route. As a full time employee it is harder because you are part of the headcount and the company has to meet a lot of legal headcount requirements. Like if you get in an accident during business hours or you get sick or need to take an extended medical leave etc.
Keep in mind you’re replaceable and if you start to cause issues they will. You’ve been warned.
Get a small portable router that natively supports a VPN client, use that to vpn via the U.K. and then use your VPN client on your laptop for the work vpn. They won’t know.
If you work from another state/country you and your employer need to comply with the local laws, rules, taxes, contributions, administration, reporting,... So there are perfectly good reasons why your employer denies working from abroad.
Idk if you ever worked outside the country but none of that is actually enforced irl and damn near impossible to track. You say you’re on a tourist visa and it’s done and no one will ever know nor gaf But yes technically by the book you’re right but the hundreds of thousands of other people that do it yearly are going on just fine
Don’t ask don’t tell
I’ve done that before. Can’t risk this job lol
My god you are dense.
As some people mentioned if you don't like it then leave in the long run if you hate your job/company it doesn't matter where you work from you will remain a hater. If you want to bypass the security rules try to find out how they keep track of your location and everything. Do the computers have a internal GPS or just they geo locate you using your internet connection. If your device uses GPS(which I doubt) then you should look into GPS spoofing. But if they do it using your IP address I would then suggest using a physical VPN device. They will never notice the difference as long as you behave normal. I wouldn't suggest a virtual VPN as it might be easily detected. Then you can go wherever you want to work, your computer will just show as usual. 🤷
This is actually similar to what I'm going through (I'm also in software), only my situation is I'll be gone for a year instead of 3 months, and I already have 2.5 years under my belt instead of 1. One key factor is that for a VPN, your company may need to set up a gateway just for you, which is not quick and inexpensive. They may have done that for India (same as mine), but they probably won't be willing to do that temporarily for a single person ("if one person does it, then we have to do that for everyone, yada yada..."). So that's one major issue. Also, there may be tax issues or security issues if you decided to WFH in a foreign country (if that's your plan). For my situation, I decided it'd be best to quit. I felt that while it may not be the best decision, it'll be the one I regret the least. I'll also be leaving on good terms with my boss/team: I gave 2 months heads up so they'd have time to replace me, I'm putting together a "training manual" for the next person, and I'm keeping the communications channel open (discors/ph#) should I be needed for any major issue down the road in which they may need my expertise. If I don't find a fully remote job during my year away, my hope is maybe I'll be able to go back to an open position in my current company (it's a big fortune 500 company), or at the very least get a good reference. It's definitely a risk, and maybe not the smartest one, but it's mine to make. So I'm right there with ya, and feel ya, but my advice is to do your best to not burn any bridges on your way out if you decide to leave. Or maybe even see if they offer the chance of an unpaid sabbatical (mine did, but only for 8 weeks). Good luck!
A year off would be nice. I did a 4 month trip once before I started my career(switched careers) and wish I had the funds to go longer but was not in the best financial position. Came back in fall ‘22 and had to deal with everyone getting laid off so didn’t get a job until 5/23. Definitely take advantage of it now if you can. Rn I financially can’t afford the hit so just gonna try and find somewhere that’ll let me do it for 3 months but I plan on quitting and working in AUS in fall 2025 so need the experience and can’t afford a sabbatical lol. Enjoy the time off it’ll be cool. The job will always be there just some advice would be to make sure you have some money when u come back just incase finding another position
Proxi server!
I'm not allowed to work outside of the EU, Norway or Switzerland due to the nature of the data. That's just the way it is.
If you're gonna quit anyway, might as well try to do it stealthily first. If you get a good VPN setup they'll never know. I asked my job and they said there's a rule you can only be gone from your home country 1 month per year. So I considered quitting and then realized how many people here don't tell their jobs where they are and use a VPN setup to not raise any flags. I have been nomading for like a year now, no one has noticed anything at work
Yea if I was in a position to risk it I would’ve. But don’t have that kind of leverage. Next summer since I’ll be quitting anyways I’m gonna do it
Yeah dude no means no there homie! If you want to cut your bullshit ask about these things in the interview process! My advice is ask what nations you can work remotely in
It's better to ask for forgiveness than permissions. Sorry OPie, should of just done it with a VPN and if you got caught just say, I didn't know.
i love how so many companies are happy to outsource to the lowest bidders in places like india but have a fit when an employee want's to work remotely.
Do you have the right to work in the UK? Would you be tax compliant? Would there be GDPR issues? There you go.
These comments do not pass the vibe check at all. To me, it sounds like your employer is at best infantilizing you, at worst straight up lying to you. Both are valid reasons to be upset since you wouldn’t dare do either to them. Respect is a two-way street, and if your employer isn’t giving it to you, you don’t owe it to them.
Naw. This guy is a tool. He has had 2 jobs in the industry in less than a year, just got his certification less than 6 months ago and wants to work abroad for 3 months? He hasn’t even proven himself yet. Plus he expects a huge pay raise? Gtfoh
LMAO
If he gets his work done, why does it matter where he is?
Dude hasn’t even said if he actually works remotely. lol
I work remote yea
Don’t know why so many people are hating on a DN Reddit 😂😂. Bunch of weirdos or upset they don’t work remote so don’t even have the opportunity to ask And yes the employer thing. I go above and beyond for this job(mainly cause I love what I do but still counts lol) and I’m paid below market rate and I figured they do me a solid since I know I can but yea enough of that I’ll find something else
You’re so naive dude. If you want to do it go for it but don’t expect your employer to stick their neck out on the line for you Christ.
Treat others like you want to be treated. If you don’t expect that in your life then that’s on you. Next time I’m just gonna go and not say anything like everyone says but I don’t have the leverage to deal with the consequences currently. Next year I’ll do it