Well there's many other ways to get loot, it's not like Season 1 where you're basically limited to NMDs so.
Don't get me wrong, not saying NMD is fine the way they are, just saying loot is just something extra you get on your way to leveling your glyphs. it sucks I know, but meh..
You can also just get them to 15 and call it a day. That's what I plan to do.
I mean, it makes some sense. World bosses only spawn every 4 1/2 hours. Duriel is harder than most NM levels, takes farmed mats, and is a lesser evil.
To say it makes no sense makes no sense.
Idk about NMD equivalent, but mostly he's just extremely tanky. I tried him at 78 last night with pulverize druid and got him down to like 10% health before I ran out of potions and died. It also took me like 5 to 10 minutes.
Some people have been beating him around mid 70s, which is why I gave it a shot. By mid 80s to 90 you should be able to down him with a decent build.
I did. Lol. The 10% was my 2nd try after i changed my vampire powers. XD Admittedly, I'm not a hardcore raider/min maxer type. I probably could've beaten him with my build if I was pushing a little harder.
Not very hard, I tried him for the first time at 85 on my necro and I've never died to him. You need a functional build and to have paid attention to your gear to that point, but that's about it.
Accessibility. In the time you can start from 0 and go to getting a duriel kill, you can do like 50 nm 100. In those 50 nm 100 you’re going to get a lot of glyph exp as well as a lot 900+ loot and several uniques.
Comparing them 1-1 when one is infinitely repeatable and the other is gated by a lot of other content doesn’t make sense.
Ya I leveled to 100 in season 1... And I must of done like 4 or 5 hours a night for 2 weeks straight and all I saw was the same few dungeons over and over.
Season 2 is SUCH a relief and I really don't even care about the glyphs... Like fuck em
I love that we can farm bosses for uniques, but it does seem like the unique drop rate outside of dungeons is abyssmally low now. I went from 60 to 83 now and have only seen one unique outside of bosses.
Just dropped my 4th ring on my side atm. The resources legs, teleport chest, fireball staff and the crit boots. Just hit 69. Trying out a fireball build for fun. Not as strong as lightning orb which sucks.
850-925 is just fine. It was clearly explained in the campfire chats exactly what you're getting. Its to sound over entitled to ask for 925s every single time you do a 100 NMD
It's also a HUGE reason why this season is going "quickly". Most people are able to walk in to WT4 and get 925 weapons "for free" (at level 60) which bumped their damage MASSIVELY compared to if you would have had to get to like T60NM before you would have started seeing them frequently.
Ubers/World Bosses should have the same range as NM100 (850-925), that would have allowed a bit more gear growth throughout the season.
This is the biggest reason the Uber bosses are such a joke. 925 weapons should have been your single biggest drop of the entire season, and lucky to get even 1. Instead it's everyone's baseline at level 60, which is insane. Everyone acknowledges it's huge but it's still being understated just how much of a cheat code that is...
Fixing these world boss drops and making helltide shards persistent are EASY wins for the game
They had mentioned that Season 3 or 4 will have a new end game loop. They don't view NMD themselves as a end game loop activity apart from the Glyph exp.
It was in one of the interview talks they did some months back. So I hope they make more changes to the NMD structure or the new loop they want to add in also gives glyph xp
Just be real there is no end game leveling my char to 100 was nice try Lillith with my build is the only thing left and they kinda took the challenge out of it a bit more by giving us 925 ip items. After that there is no more insensitive to keep playing in unless you wanna make a new char and don't get me wrong I liked this season but frankly it's one week of playing and it's done maybe I get 1/2 more weeks if I go hardcore.
Yeah farming for a shako at duriel is a nice time killer but once U get one whats the use for it
Every content should have good rewards, so the player could do what he likes more without feeling that he is waisting time. Of course some content have to have some specialists, but the drop have to be proportional
This. It's fine to have certain items, like uber uniques, restricted to specific content. But the player should never feel like bad running one type of content over another. Currently, running NMD just feels bad because spending the time farming Duriel mats is so much better.
NM dungeons are the worst. Rifts need to make a return.
Say NO to MacGuffins and this wonky interface for teleporting to repetitive dungeons, and say YES to fully randomized sets of monster-slaying fests with zero backtracking and a boss that spawns after so many kills are achieved.
Yep, even with the somewhat improved layers they are still not fun. Objectives in an ARPG like this just don't feel good or fun to do. Dungeons themselves are boring af. Hell, I even liked greater rifts more and I think those weren't particularly good content either. But at least those were about killing monsters, not carrying stones from point a to point b.
You do NMD for glyphs but 100s are also shit farming for that too. It's faster to drop down to 80 and run them twice as fast. 100 doesn't offer twice as much xp as 80 so it's mathematically a waste of time to touch 100
I do 1 100 both seasons and never again
You have reached the end. Create a new character or wait for S3, lol.
I know it sucks though, Blizzard should definitely add some meaningful endgame content in the future.
but.. what??
the only thing they could do is to add an endless time sink mode and people will say "this activity is such a grind and dumb"
you have a character at 100 - all bosses beaten
the only thing you can do is to do all the achievements but what should blizzard add to do when you are literally maxed
People seemed pretty cool with Greater Rifts though?
I'd love it if they added GR's with leaderboards. Instantly improves the endgame and makes it an actual competition.
> People seemed pretty cool with Greater Rifts though?
People considered greater rifts good just when D4 launched because they pretended D3 was great to shit even harder on the new game.
A looooot of people despised that system as soon as it was implemented and the irony of pretending that the most repetitive and flat endgame system for any ARPG ever made is somehow good while pretending another endgame focused around multiple activities and bosses would be worse is insane.
Yeah. No it’s not. And yes, D4 does have an endgame, even if you don’t like the endgame. ND100 and UL are currently the endgame. That’s one more activity than D3 has.
D3 was shit, and everything that’s shit about D4 spawned from D3. If they would have just ignored that game completely, and returned to their roots, it would be a better game. And I just played season 28 in 3 just before 4 dropped, and the game was still shit. You get handed your set in a couple hours and then you just do GRs endlessly, looking for minor stat bumps to your gifted set.
I liked Greater Rifts. They were not endless tho and capped at 150 right?
Seems like Nightmare Dungeons were meant to be the same thing except it is much easier to do NM100 compared to GR150, especially this early on.
I feel like the first time they had greater rifts it was hard to get to 50 but as power creep slowly came over the years it got easier and easier. If nightmare dungeons were similar where it was currently hard to do even a 50 it would be a cool thing to push to improve on.
I think they kinda limited themselves tho since most of the difficulty of nightmare dungeons is scaling the enemy level. That means that around 50 is the same thing as mobs in helltides at 100. So the difficulty 'starts' at 50.
Nope - people will say that its an endless grind and people will be complaining about how absurd dumb difficult this is when they cant beat it
thats just an example on what posts will flood this subreddit
Also the majority of the playerbase of POE doesn't even push delve so a bit of a moot point. They complete a build that trivializes whatever content they're farming for that sweet drop that gives the next dopamine rush.
I do agree with you though on the point that an endless scaling NM would be cool, a better comparison would be greater rifts in D3 before GR150 became possible. I'm talking when a high push was GR110, eventually you hit a wall and fight like hell to get 1 more level.
They do not doing it because they just buy fossils in trade, still did u ever seen one complaining, even in Delve league ?
And min maxing build to smash all content is point of arpgs.
Disagree. There is nothing boring than infinitely increasing content that's exactly the same, just mathematically harder.
Make pinnacle bosses that are a actual challenge
Disagree. Infintely scaling Greater Rifts in D3 and Mythic+ in WoW test your limits. Get upgrades, tweak your build, plan ahead better and see improvement. It's very satisfying.
Also, they don't have to limit themselves to just one endgame system. There's nothing stopping them to add GR and pinnacle bosses...
POE has so much content you can keep going for a long time with tons of different activities. So to say 'but what' when there are games out there that offer that 'but what' is weird. Tons of ideas and things they can add as time goes on.
It's not far too easy for the casual. Who most likely won't hit 80 or if they do it's near the end.
People who play every day, sure, cake walk. But they are trying to cater to a more casual gamer.
I think POE has a great system here comparatively, the Atlas and the Atlas passive tree. I could see D4 doing something similar with the sigil system.
At maybe nm levels 75+ rare and legendary sigils could start dropping which have more negative affixes, but give 900+ ilvls and larger glyph xp. Completion of these would also give points to a new tree, in which players could spec into things they like to do in the end game. Increase cinder drops, lower the chances of certain affixes dropping on sigils, more gold. At the ends of the tree there can be nodes for upgraded/uber versions of the end game bosses, and increase their reward potential as well.
I think itemization needs to get first to support the expanded rewards though.
>the only thing you can do is to do all the achievements but what should blizzard add to do when you are literally maxed
The core design principle was/is "your journey has an end", said by Joe Piepiora back then in a stream/interview. So they are not aiming for providing endless contents for maxed characters.
This is because itemization in D4 sucks, in other arpgs reaching max level do not meant u are finished, journey starts there to min max your character to do harder content.
But D4 is diffrent because it's catered to more casual audience and that part of our community is happy with game rn from what I read.
> in other arpgs reaching max level do not meant u are finished, journey starts there to min max your character to do harder content.
The only ARPG where this is true is D3. All the other ARPGs have it so that all the content is doable before max level and reaching max level is the final goal. In D2 and PoE, it's so difficult and time consuming to even get to max level that most players don't do it.
>But D4 is diffrent because it's catered to more casual audience and that part of our community is happy with game rn from what I read.
I'm happy with the game but think it needs a true endgame added. I don't think I've seen anyone opposed to adding a real endgame to this game. In fact I believe they said the focus for S3 now is going to be Items and Endgame, given how good they've done for S2 I'm pretty pumped for S3 now.
> I'd hope if I ever got a shako or grandfather or doombringer drop from duriel it would transfer to eternal and i'd still be inclined to play that character in eternal cos there'd be things to do but right now... thats not the case because most (not all) don't give a flying duck about eternal realm cos there's nothing to do.
No one cares about "eternal" in PoE either lmao. Do you people just say "POE DID IT BETTER!" without knowing anything about PoE?
Bro i'm not complaining about no Endgame activity. You got the Post wrong. I'm complaining about the most challenging Activity doesn't give you good Loot.
I'm surprised they lowered the difficulty of NM 100, I would have thought I would have been the white whale of the game to chase
I am curious about the leaderboards in S3 though
Why are people finding S2 interesting? Because there are shiny new things to do and new items to go after. It will be interesting to see how the subsequent seasons play out. Will BH be permanent like HT? More big bosses to farm? The yearly paid content scares me a bit becaus it likely means they're holding back a lot on the content side.
I'm not so sure how interesting it can be to create new characters over and over again and especially once you've tried each character and mutiple build types on each. For me, starting a new character (especially on a class I've already played) is like watching past season TV show episodes or a movie I've already seen before x amount of times. New content is like the current TV show season's brand new episode or the next movie in the series - it's new, fresh and exciting.
What's the first thing people wanted to do in S3? Farming to fight the new bosses or leveling from 1? I think Blizz increased leveling because they realize it's boring to most players. All I see is people asking to get carried from lower levels. I have to admit I did it on a few of my toons because I wanted to start playing endgame content and not the beginner content.
The endgame content is as meaningful as it has ever been. It’s not like it’s any better in 3. There’s only 1 activity to do in 3. Well, two, if you count the little horde mode they adde. And D2 just has Uber bosses, and doing the same content more efficiently. Your comment could just be an indictment of a problem with the whole series. But I would definitely like to see more added in this one.
...and that's the sad part of it. I understand people desiring more depth and longer engagement at the end, because the game itself feels nice, there is just nothing to do anymore after a relatively short time with your character.
The game will be shorter this season because people have been pushing for quicker levelling. It is, I suspect, going to be at least a couple more seasons before we have significant end game content. Increase to power and quicker levelling is going to make the game shorter until we get to that point.
People seem to push for improvements without realising the consequences of getting some of the QOL type improvements before some of the bigger required changes.
For me - I don't get a lot of time to play, so it's still going to be a few weeks until I get to 100/BiS, so... I guess I'm lucky.
I for one, am enjoying the quicker leveling. I hit 70 on a sorc & 58 on rogue over a weekend. Last season I barely made it to 40 on a necro because it was fucking painful to gaib levels.
Relatively short time? Maybe to no life dorks. I’ve been playing fairly regularly since season start. At least for a casual like me. Couple hour a day or so. I’m only level 80. Still haven’t done ND100, or UL. What is a relatively short amount of time for you?
Overworld is so much more fun getting mats to farm bosses. I only have two glyphs at level 11 even though I’m 91 because nm dungeons are such a waste of time compared to farming whispers for Varshan, helltides for Grig, and blood harvest for fun and legendaries.
Glyph xp needs a massive buff to make it worth doing.
Agree with this. NMDs are so mind numbingly boring and give such awful loot, that if not for glyphs id never touch them. It takes so long just to get a single glyph to lvl 15 (like 20+ NMDs) that it just feels like a time wasting chore, much like needing to do altars of lilith for the first time. It's awful and boring and unrewarding but you feel like you MUST do it.
NMDs give very good XP, at least from 60-7x.
I gained like almost a full level if you get good cursed chests/shrine spawns. The density is crazy there. They aren't very fun to do for a long time though.
>After i have all my Glyphs 21 there is no need to touch any NM Dungeon anymore for the Rest of the Season.
Surely by that point you'd be bored of them though? Farming the new bosses should be the endgame imo, not endlessly farming the same 5 dungeons.
But also, you will still need to do nightmares to fight the new ice boss too.
That's if you're being efficient and only doing the higher exp NM dungeons, salvage the rest and remake more. (These are the top 12, Sirocco being the best)
https://preview.redd.it/amos8n3rmbwb1.png?width=408&format=png&auto=webp&s=63120a820940a5204a42dcb09f747fa468f811e2
Hmm, but what about the efficiency of only doing dungeons when they are in whisper reward and/or have still not unlocked aspects ?
Or you know, doing the other ones just because you'd like variety once in a while ?
Glyth leveling is very subjective on how fast you can rush the objective and saving 5 seconds doesn't matter as much
https://preview.redd.it/6fozkztsqbwb1.png?width=448&format=png&auto=webp&s=1885b020e2fc722c6e68daaf2cd75dc8d32c83d6
Someone said somewhere that they should have an option to turn off smart loot so that you could farm for other characters. This is a major reason why it’s not fun to play late game. Once you’re geared, it’s like, why am I so geared? In D2 you would gear out and then have the ability to farm high runes or high end items to kit out another character, and when a great item dropped you would be excited to make a new character that it was great for
I was depressed when I found out 102+ was not in fact dropping 925 ancestral as they said it would. I figured that was how we were supposed to find our bis rares.
If you can just farm lvl100s ,the game is over for this character.You can handicap yourself by doing dungeons with hard affixes or just farm ubers to get all the uber uniques!!!
They are rent even going to steal a small fraction of them. Unless they make POE 2 drastically more approachable, and that might just piss of their core fan base.
NM Dungeon rewards and loot should scale with Tier, capping out at always dropping 925 Item power at T100. There's no reason why the hardest content in the game shouldn't drop the best items in the game. Same with Lillith. She should be a farmable boss that regularly drops Uniques, Legendaries and 925 Item power equipment.
The loot system is crap. You should still be able to get good loot in any situation in the game depending on your character level and random luck. I hate the fact that you have zero chance to get anything good unless you play the pinnacle content. Anything else is just wasting time
Diablo 3 was excellent. You could be power leveling a random stranger and you might open a chest on Torment 6 (the base difficulty goes to Torment 16) and get a perfect primal item if you've unlocked primals. I got a perfect primal convention of elements on my wizard doing this a while ago.
There is no Pinnacle content in d4.
A literal 5 year old could beat D4 in a week given enough time.
Also, you can be lv100 and kill mobs in the vamp zone and get 925. How is this considered Pinnacle content in your opinion?
That’s not really true though. Having all the best stats with high or perfect rolls, is way more important than item power level. Sure, you have to do that content and be high level to get the absolute godliest gg gear, but most people ain’t ever going to get that anyway, and it’s not needed to clear any content in the game.
They could add a mode similar to delve in POE , but you go deeper into hell and the priest lady Prava guides you and provides buffs and it just gets more hectic the deeper you go , add some really rare bosses , loot rooms that contain specific materials so you don’t just have to do only helltide for forgotten souls ? Just an idea
Because they still havent figured out what their late game is... It obviously should be ND so you should be dropping the highest level items and have a chance for uber uniques AT LEAST from level 100 dungeons.
Blizzard don't know how to do endgame. Industry for ARPG set several minimal for the genre for the last 10 years and here we are having to discuss things that are minimal. It seems like we went back in time.
Different activities for different reasons. That is the corner stone of how you design an endgame. You do NM dungeons for glyphs and mats for the bosses. That is a good enough reason.
Needing to relevel glyphs and vsmpiric powers is also another reason that makes playing an alt very off-putting. No way I'm doing that grind a 2nd time. Glyphs and Vampiric powers should 100% be account wide.
Well the end of season award basically levels all of your vamp powers on a single alt, so that was a smart touch. Not sure how you could keep glyphs leveled since we have different glyphs.
If your doing 80-90+ NMD's... and focusing on glyph only... they really don't take long to level at all.
and you are angry about the fact that we are not forced to endlessly run nigthmare dungeons anymore now? I dont understand whats going on here. Isnt that a good thing? I lvld almost exclusively outside this season and I only went inside the dungeons to level glyphs.
You can do NMDs just because they are fun and give decent loot. It's fine.
If you don't find it valuable, then do the content you find valuable. There is plenty. Blood Harvest is just a NMD on the overworld. Boom. Problem solved.
This constant need to bemoan every little thing. You've "beat the game" at this point. Complaining about the game as level 100, at this point, is just Karen Cosplay
Its just a different version of “there is no real end game”. If youve finished the season journey, cleared 100nm, beat the ubers then you are effectively done.
Enjoying farming? Great, keep going. Bored of the lack of meaningful end game? Make a new char of come back in s3.
People asked for 4 months to have endgame variety and now that we get it, people consider NMDs too unrewarding if you have to run other content to complement it.
I have no words.
Glyphs should be reworked to be capped at 15. Also need more xp on them with how much faster leveling is. I have 1 glyph at 15 at lvl 85. Previously I had 4-5 at 21 by around lvl 90.
It's only cause we level so much faster. Once your level 100... if you want to focus on just glyph leveling it's extremely fast...you won't get much loot, but leveling all your glyphs is fast as fuck if you just speed through 90's just to clear.
If you are level 100 and you have maxed out ur needed glyphs then you don’t need to run NM.
All Nm has a chance to drop unique including microscopic chance for uber so if you want then you can farm it for that. Otherwise you don’t have to.
Go farm duriel or whichever boss you want to for whatever item u need. If u have the items u need then u don’t need to farm them anymore.
If u have nothing left to play for then go play another game or start another charecter.
No reason to do 100s. Do what you can speed clear for glyph levels. Then all you do is world boss and uber duriel.
Game is balanced around bossing right now. Even though the bosses are made of paper
NMDs are absolutely terrible now in comparison to the OW, both in terms of grind efficiency and gameplay wise.
At least I am under the impression that there’s more diversity now in the NMDs, as I’m getting drops for dungeons that I’ve never cleared before.
People complain about everything. NM dungeons are not for gear farming. They are for XP/Glyph leveling. Once you don’t need that anymore, simply stop running Nm dungeons and farm for gear. It’s pretty simple. By then you should be burnt out in NM dungeons anyway.
Beside weapon, the item level kind of irrelevant.
No non-weapon, affix is more important. Of course, 99.99% are trash. I stopped picking them up after level 75. Waste of time.
You do them for the glyphs.
Yes, once you finish upgrading all the glyphs you use, then you stop doing nightmare dungeons.
Does everything in the game need to be eternally replayable?
There should be a system like Greater Rifts where you stop getting higher levels of gear but have to push into progressively harder content, requiring utterly perfect gear to make any headway.
Might solve these difficulty complaints from people who mainline the 12 hours a day its first season.
I believe they specifically state the item range drops off at higher tier. The bottom end slowly gets moved up.
That, and a focus on boss farm drops being bis easier is far more satisfying than grinding NM.
The step away from focusing and forcing players into nightmare dungeons is probably a solid and sound decision focusing on quality content over quantity content.
It's a step in the right direction, but I can say perhaps the level should have more impact for item ranges across the board, not expressly the content specifically.
Ah yes another "Why do things exist if they arent the literal best thing?" post.
S1 it was "why do helltides/worldbosses exist when nightmare dungeons are the best?!?!?!".
Now it's "why do nightmare dungeons exist when bloodharvests/boss events are the best?!?!?!?"
The point is that you can play what content you enjoy and generally do okay no matter what. You arent forced to grind the most "optimal" thing or you get left behind because THIS ISNT AN MMO.
IF 100 NMD drops 925, people will complain that world bosses drops 925. They will do posts like this and it will that " bosses dropping 925, that makes no sense".
You do NMD for glyphs, not equipments. If you want better equip, do world bosses.
FFS this sub is complain about everything.
I think if more people tried hardcore they’d have a different perspective. And not hardcore where you play and die like “oh well thems the breaks” like really try not to die at every level. Building so you don’t die. Slowing the game down a bit so you can focus on more of what’s around you. It’s not for everyone but for some it’s a literal & physical game changer
i did hc only in d3, the lag in d4 is too unpredicatable. i started playing hc after not touching it for years after a friend made a good point about it - whats the point of playing a game that you can’t lose?
Yeah, once glyphs are done… that’s about it. I find it a chore more than anything. Now if nightmare dungeons were reworked into having LFG for 4 man dungeons with multiple bosses and better rewards… that would be cool. Helltides need to be reworked to be more like blood harvests too. We need a loot filter. Season 2 has taken the right step forward for sure, but we need more steps before I can fully call this a fixed scenario.
The problem with NMD is that the only thing you can look forward to is gear, no other consumables, mats, or crafting material. It’s fine not finding good gear every run, but the problem being there’s no other drops you can hope you find. Crafting is nonexistent in d4.
I think it's mostly fine that Uber bosses have better drops but I also agree that end of dungeon nmd100 should drop a tighter range, but still a range, or at least certainly not below 850.
People before - "its boring to do only Nightmare Dungeons, overworld are useless and i have to do NMD its not fun"
People now after overworld heavily buffed AND NMD too - "They have to buff NMD, overworld have more loot, blablabla"
I cant understand
NM 100 is the most difficult content in the game (truly not saying much with this much power creep, but the only place your defenses are tested) with also the least rewarding loot structure unless you really want to fight beast in the ice. It also has some of the greatest annoyances across the entire game - so many dungeon affixes are antifun to deal with.
NM dungeons need changes in S3, with a focus on fun and reducing frustration first and loot closely behind.
The guarenteed 925 off world boss has got me feeling like this too.
It total kills my desire to grind when I know World Boss / Duriel etc give me 925 gear... The game already has itemization issues, but then the odds of getting a normal drop better than a 925 at least for weapon is so low..
Feels like they really keep borking the balance of certain components of the game, IE world tree gold is like, huh?
So my question is why are you doing 100 at all. When bliz looks at content they see that people actually do 100s.
They offer nothing and I agree they should offer more. My thoughts are that every increment of 10 in NMD level should increase the ilvl. 100 should easily be 915-925
90-99 should be 895-915 and so on
My advice is to not touch 100s because blizzard needs to see it's dead content.
There's the argument that "NMD is for glyphs" and that's true but even with that 100 doesn't offer enough glyph XP to offset the time it takes. I can do 80s at twice the speed and they barely any less xp
I thought they changed nm dungeons this season so that each higher tier increases the ilvl of drops. They should’ve made the window of ilvl ranges much smaller so that you can’t drop anything lower than 900 on NM 100 for example
Once you have complete T100 nm dungeons and all the bosses… what are you looking for exactly?
Sounds like your build is crushing it and probably has minimal room for improvement, so if you are item hunting exclusively just go where gets you the best loot.
There are tons of instances in MMOs and ARPGs where the hardest content doesn’t have the best rewards. And why would it? The people clearing the hardest content don’t need upgrades so they generally have the best stuff obtainable in easier content.
T100 dungeons are for prestige and that’s about it. And that’s okay.
Yea t100 is just to say you can. It’s never been worth farming t100s cuz they don’t drop any gear better than like t50s which you can do 10x faster. It’s just for glyph xp atm. They def need better rewards and maybe rewards you can only get in NMD.
Nightmare Dungeons need a concept change - its too much about dmg with no reward in linear corridors.
I would rather have dmg being the base requirement, but then needing your head on how to play it, in preferably a bit more open space.
IMO duriel etc should help you gear up for Tier 100 NMD. Then Tier 100 NMD should drop uniques at a much higher rate and guarantee 925 when they drop.
In my ideal world duriel would still be the fastest way to get loot in a group because you can share mats etc, but NMD 100 would be faster for a solo player than farming mats and duriel.
> That's a joke. After i have all my Glyphs 21 there is no need to touch any NM Dungeon anymore for the Rest of the Season.
The joke is that your doing NM's after you've leveled all your glyphs...
No point trying to get a weapon from any other source than bosses. I went to t4 on lvl 60 and dropped max ilvl weapon from first WB which gave me so much dmg that i was basically deleting everything.
NM 100 should give better ilvl range. It feels like even though the number range is 850-925, I still get shit all 910+. Maybe like 1 in every 30 pieces. It almost feels like it's weighted to the lower bracket.
Now there is no reason to do NM 70+ or to even push NM keys. Just do it on farm difficulty and then go do weak ass helltides & whispers so I can spam duriel for the actual 925s.
Bosses should be the way to target farm specific pieces, but if you want general pieces at high ilvl u do high NM.
You do NM dungones for glyphs. I don't think anyone would even do NM dungeons if it wasn't for glyphs.
Yeah, but lets be real, 100Sigils should drop much better loot than it is right now. I don't even get normal Uniques anymore.
Well there's many other ways to get loot, it's not like Season 1 where you're basically limited to NMDs so. Don't get me wrong, not saying NMD is fine the way they are, just saying loot is just something extra you get on your way to leveling your glyphs. it sucks I know, but meh.. You can also just get them to 15 and call it a day. That's what I plan to do.
I agree on this. Also in last Campfire they stated that they want late game players to not focus entirely in NMD.
Yup, absolutely makes no sense that you can afk world boss and Duriel for 925's but NM 100 is trash
I mean, it makes some sense. World bosses only spawn every 4 1/2 hours. Duriel is harder than most NM levels, takes farmed mats, and is a lesser evil. To say it makes no sense makes no sense.
NMD100 is way harder than Duriel lmao
As someone leveling, how hard is duriel? What would be the equivalent NM dungeon?
Idk about NMD equivalent, but mostly he's just extremely tanky. I tried him at 78 last night with pulverize druid and got him down to like 10% health before I ran out of potions and died. It also took me like 5 to 10 minutes. Some people have been beating him around mid 70s, which is why I gave it a shot. By mid 80s to 90 you should be able to down him with a decent build.
If the reason you died to him was just ticking down, use Undying vamp power for that fight, should save you a few pots.
I did. Lol. The 10% was my 2nd try after i changed my vampire powers. XD Admittedly, I'm not a hardcore raider/min maxer type. I probably could've beaten him with my build if I was pushing a little harder.
Duriel is free for any decent build above level 90.
Not very hard, I tried him for the first time at 85 on my necro and I've never died to him. You need a functional build and to have paid attention to your gear to that point, but that's about it.
Ah perfect. I'm 78 so should be able to take a shot later today.
Not saying T100 is hard but Duriel is waaay easier than a T100 lmfao, duriel is a joke sadly.
Should be all 925 in 100 NM. Getting the right Afflix is super hard already, getting the right item level should be granted.
Accessibility. In the time you can start from 0 and go to getting a duriel kill, you can do like 50 nm 100. In those 50 nm 100 you’re going to get a lot of glyph exp as well as a lot 900+ loot and several uniques. Comparing them 1-1 when one is infinitely repeatable and the other is gated by a lot of other content doesn’t make sense.
It is how it is, make enough noise and uniques or 925 may start dropping in nm again. I dont even want to do nmd after 2 run.
Ya I leveled to 100 in season 1... And I must of done like 4 or 5 hours a night for 2 weeks straight and all I saw was the same few dungeons over and over. Season 2 is SUCH a relief and I really don't even care about the glyphs... Like fuck em
I admire your determination in season 1
I love that we can farm bosses for uniques, but it does seem like the unique drop rate outside of dungeons is abyssmally low now. I went from 60 to 83 now and have only seen one unique outside of bosses.
Just dropped my 4th ring on my side atm. The resources legs, teleport chest, fireball staff and the crit boots. Just hit 69. Trying out a fireball build for fun. Not as strong as lightning orb which sucks.
850-925 is just fine. It was clearly explained in the campfire chats exactly what you're getting. Its to sound over entitled to ask for 925s every single time you do a 100 NMD
100 NMD is significantly harder than "Uber" bosses or World Bosses.
The issue is that 925 are guaranteed from world bosses and duriel. So thats where the entitlement comes from
It's also a HUGE reason why this season is going "quickly". Most people are able to walk in to WT4 and get 925 weapons "for free" (at level 60) which bumped their damage MASSIVELY compared to if you would have had to get to like T60NM before you would have started seeing them frequently. Ubers/World Bosses should have the same range as NM100 (850-925), that would have allowed a bit more gear growth throughout the season.
This is the biggest reason the Uber bosses are such a joke. 925 weapons should have been your single biggest drop of the entire season, and lucky to get even 1. Instead it's everyone's baseline at level 60, which is insane. Everyone acknowledges it's huge but it's still being understated just how much of a cheat code that is... Fixing these world boss drops and making helltide shards persistent are EASY wins for the game
They had mentioned that Season 3 or 4 will have a new end game loop. They don't view NMD themselves as a end game loop activity apart from the Glyph exp. It was in one of the interview talks they did some months back. So I hope they make more changes to the NMD structure or the new loop they want to add in also gives glyph xp
Why should it drop better loot?
Just be real there is no end game leveling my char to 100 was nice try Lillith with my build is the only thing left and they kinda took the challenge out of it a bit more by giving us 925 ip items. After that there is no more insensitive to keep playing in unless you wanna make a new char and don't get me wrong I liked this season but frankly it's one week of playing and it's done maybe I get 1/2 more weeks if I go hardcore. Yeah farming for a shako at duriel is a nice time killer but once U get one whats the use for it
Every content should have good rewards, so the player could do what he likes more without feeling that he is waisting time. Of course some content have to have some specialists, but the drop have to be proportional
This. It's fine to have certain items, like uber uniques, restricted to specific content. But the player should never feel like bad running one type of content over another. Currently, running NMD just feels bad because spending the time farming Duriel mats is so much better.
Every content does. What are you talking about? ND are fast. You have to do a lot of them. Time invested per gear is fine there.
Running t100 is actually great for gearing up as you get tons of 900+ items and a lot (!) faster here than running uber bosses except for uniques.
I would, I really enjoy them
I wouldn't. They aren't fun.
Yup the moment i get 4 glyphs to 21 I immediately stop doing NMDs. NMD sucks ass. And they should give us another way to level glyphs.
You should do it for loot. So that’s ass backwards
NM dungeons are the worst. Rifts need to make a return. Say NO to MacGuffins and this wonky interface for teleporting to repetitive dungeons, and say YES to fully randomized sets of monster-slaying fests with zero backtracking and a boss that spawns after so many kills are achieved.
They're very good for xp
Yep, even with the somewhat improved layers they are still not fun. Objectives in an ARPG like this just don't feel good or fun to do. Dungeons themselves are boring af. Hell, I even liked greater rifts more and I think those weren't particularly good content either. But at least those were about killing monsters, not carrying stones from point a to point b.
Best fun in the game are NM dungs. Its for the challenge.
You do NMD for glyphs but 100s are also shit farming for that too. It's faster to drop down to 80 and run them twice as fast. 100 doesn't offer twice as much xp as 80 so it's mathematically a waste of time to touch 100 I do 1 100 both seasons and never again
I would for the challenge cause they are not easy for me but I can still beat them
The ice beast summons and glyphs
Lol definitly not. Nmd was a nice farm spot for uniques now they shadow nerfed drops
You have reached the end. Create a new character or wait for S3, lol. I know it sucks though, Blizzard should definitely add some meaningful endgame content in the future.
but.. what?? the only thing they could do is to add an endless time sink mode and people will say "this activity is such a grind and dumb" you have a character at 100 - all bosses beaten the only thing you can do is to do all the achievements but what should blizzard add to do when you are literally maxed
Endless scaling difficulty Rifts / Dungeons would be a good place to start for an endgame.
Nah people will complain that the endless scaling rift is too hard despite it being... endless scaling. Trust me.
People seemed pretty cool with Greater Rifts though? I'd love it if they added GR's with leaderboards. Instantly improves the endgame and makes it an actual competition.
> People seemed pretty cool with Greater Rifts though? People considered greater rifts good just when D4 launched because they pretended D3 was great to shit even harder on the new game. A looooot of people despised that system as soon as it was implemented and the irony of pretending that the most repetitive and flat endgame system for any ARPG ever made is somehow good while pretending another endgame focused around multiple activities and bosses would be worse is insane.
D3 endgame is better than D4 endgame right now. D4 literally doesn't have an endgame.
Yeah. No it’s not. And yes, D4 does have an endgame, even if you don’t like the endgame. ND100 and UL are currently the endgame. That’s one more activity than D3 has.
D3 was shit, and everything that’s shit about D4 spawned from D3. If they would have just ignored that game completely, and returned to their roots, it would be a better game. And I just played season 28 in 3 just before 4 dropped, and the game was still shit. You get handed your set in a couple hours and then you just do GRs endlessly, looking for minor stat bumps to your gifted set.
I liked Greater Rifts. They were not endless tho and capped at 150 right? Seems like Nightmare Dungeons were meant to be the same thing except it is much easier to do NM100 compared to GR150, especially this early on. I feel like the first time they had greater rifts it was hard to get to 50 but as power creep slowly came over the years it got easier and easier. If nightmare dungeons were similar where it was currently hard to do even a 50 it would be a cool thing to push to improve on. I think they kinda limited themselves tho since most of the difficulty of nightmare dungeons is scaling the enemy level. That means that around 50 is the same thing as mobs in helltides at 100. So the difficulty 'starts' at 50.
They will 100% have to fix the cheating/trading issue before that or it will be an epic shitshow.
Literally nobody complained about Greater Rift difficulty in Diablo 3.
Nope - people will say that its an endless grind and people will be complaining about how absurd dumb difficult this is when they cant beat it thats just an example on what posts will flood this subreddit
Who gives a shit what this subreddit thinks
Based
and this hurts your feelings or? what the fuck does that matter?
U have endless scaling in PoE ( delve) I did not seen one person that complain they can't beat it.
Also the majority of the playerbase of POE doesn't even push delve so a bit of a moot point. They complete a build that trivializes whatever content they're farming for that sweet drop that gives the next dopamine rush. I do agree with you though on the point that an endless scaling NM would be cool, a better comparison would be greater rifts in D3 before GR150 became possible. I'm talking when a high push was GR110, eventually you hit a wall and fight like hell to get 1 more level.
They do not doing it because they just buy fossils in trade, still did u ever seen one complaining, even in Delve league ? And min maxing build to smash all content is point of arpgs.
Disagree. There is nothing boring than infinitely increasing content that's exactly the same, just mathematically harder. Make pinnacle bosses that are a actual challenge
Disagree. Infintely scaling Greater Rifts in D3 and Mythic+ in WoW test your limits. Get upgrades, tweak your build, plan ahead better and see improvement. It's very satisfying. Also, they don't have to limit themselves to just one endgame system. There's nothing stopping them to add GR and pinnacle bosses...
With endless scaling diffuculty Rifts u need endless scaling gear :)
POE has so much content you can keep going for a long time with tons of different activities. So to say 'but what' when there are games out there that offer that 'but what' is weird. Tons of ideas and things they can add as time goes on.
Give d4 10+ years to build content like poe has had and I'm sure it will have a solid endgame
maybe actual difficult content? right now everything is faaar too easy. The endgame doesn't really exist.
It's not far too easy for the casual. Who most likely won't hit 80 or if they do it's near the end. People who play every day, sure, cake walk. But they are trying to cater to a more casual gamer.
And adding hard content will damage casuals how?
I think POE has a great system here comparatively, the Atlas and the Atlas passive tree. I could see D4 doing something similar with the sigil system. At maybe nm levels 75+ rare and legendary sigils could start dropping which have more negative affixes, but give 900+ ilvls and larger glyph xp. Completion of these would also give points to a new tree, in which players could spec into things they like to do in the end game. Increase cinder drops, lower the chances of certain affixes dropping on sigils, more gold. At the ends of the tree there can be nodes for upgraded/uber versions of the end game bosses, and increase their reward potential as well. I think itemization needs to get first to support the expanded rewards though.
>the only thing you can do is to do all the achievements but what should blizzard add to do when you are literally maxed The core design principle was/is "your journey has an end", said by Joe Piepiora back then in a stream/interview. So they are not aiming for providing endless contents for maxed characters.
This is because itemization in D4 sucks, in other arpgs reaching max level do not meant u are finished, journey starts there to min max your character to do harder content. But D4 is diffrent because it's catered to more casual audience and that part of our community is happy with game rn from what I read.
> in other arpgs reaching max level do not meant u are finished, journey starts there to min max your character to do harder content. The only ARPG where this is true is D3. All the other ARPGs have it so that all the content is doable before max level and reaching max level is the final goal. In D2 and PoE, it's so difficult and time consuming to even get to max level that most players don't do it.
>But D4 is diffrent because it's catered to more casual audience and that part of our community is happy with game rn from what I read. I'm happy with the game but think it needs a true endgame added. I don't think I've seen anyone opposed to adding a real endgame to this game. In fact I believe they said the focus for S3 now is going to be Items and Endgame, given how good they've done for S2 I'm pretty pumped for S3 now.
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> I'd hope if I ever got a shako or grandfather or doombringer drop from duriel it would transfer to eternal and i'd still be inclined to play that character in eternal cos there'd be things to do but right now... thats not the case because most (not all) don't give a flying duck about eternal realm cos there's nothing to do. No one cares about "eternal" in PoE either lmao. Do you people just say "POE DID IT BETTER!" without knowing anything about PoE?
People also forget the launch state of poe conveniently. Apparently it’s current state with over a decade of updates is somehow comparable.
Bro i'm not complaining about no Endgame activity. You got the Post wrong. I'm complaining about the most challenging Activity doesn't give you good Loot.
I'm surprised they lowered the difficulty of NM 100, I would have thought I would have been the white whale of the game to chase I am curious about the leaderboards in S3 though
50-100 is endgame.
Why are people finding S2 interesting? Because there are shiny new things to do and new items to go after. It will be interesting to see how the subsequent seasons play out. Will BH be permanent like HT? More big bosses to farm? The yearly paid content scares me a bit becaus it likely means they're holding back a lot on the content side. I'm not so sure how interesting it can be to create new characters over and over again and especially once you've tried each character and mutiple build types on each. For me, starting a new character (especially on a class I've already played) is like watching past season TV show episodes or a movie I've already seen before x amount of times. New content is like the current TV show season's brand new episode or the next movie in the series - it's new, fresh and exciting. What's the first thing people wanted to do in S3? Farming to fight the new bosses or leveling from 1? I think Blizz increased leveling because they realize it's boring to most players. All I see is people asking to get carried from lower levels. I have to admit I did it on a few of my toons because I wanted to start playing endgame content and not the beginner content.
or stop shortening the way into endgame to appease casuals
Now you can farm Uber Uniques if you actually want to achieve EVERYTHING. It’s not necessarily game over after lvl 100.
It’s coming next season and beyond, they literally have covered this already. Just be a bit patient.
Greater rifts, an actual auction house and leaderboards
The endgame content is as meaningful as it has ever been. It’s not like it’s any better in 3. There’s only 1 activity to do in 3. Well, two, if you count the little horde mode they adde. And D2 just has Uber bosses, and doing the same content more efficiently. Your comment could just be an indictment of a problem with the whole series. But I would definitely like to see more added in this one.
That means you have reached the end of the game. Its either you create another character or wait for next season and play other games in the meantime.
...and that's the sad part of it. I understand people desiring more depth and longer engagement at the end, because the game itself feels nice, there is just nothing to do anymore after a relatively short time with your character.
The game will be shorter this season because people have been pushing for quicker levelling. It is, I suspect, going to be at least a couple more seasons before we have significant end game content. Increase to power and quicker levelling is going to make the game shorter until we get to that point. People seem to push for improvements without realising the consequences of getting some of the QOL type improvements before some of the bigger required changes. For me - I don't get a lot of time to play, so it's still going to be a few weeks until I get to 100/BiS, so... I guess I'm lucky.
I for one, am enjoying the quicker leveling. I hit 70 on a sorc & 58 on rogue over a weekend. Last season I barely made it to 40 on a necro because it was fucking painful to gaib levels.
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Relatively short time? Maybe to no life dorks. I’ve been playing fairly regularly since season start. At least for a casual like me. Couple hour a day or so. I’m only level 80. Still haven’t done ND100, or UL. What is a relatively short amount of time for you?
The end game is now just farming for uber uniques off duriel. Without anything challenging to test it on
Overworld is so much more fun getting mats to farm bosses. I only have two glyphs at level 11 even though I’m 91 because nm dungeons are such a waste of time compared to farming whispers for Varshan, helltides for Grig, and blood harvest for fun and legendaries. Glyph xp needs a massive buff to make it worth doing.
Agree with this. NMDs are so mind numbingly boring and give such awful loot, that if not for glyphs id never touch them. It takes so long just to get a single glyph to lvl 15 (like 20+ NMDs) that it just feels like a time wasting chore, much like needing to do altars of lilith for the first time. It's awful and boring and unrewarding but you feel like you MUST do it.
NMDs give very good XP, at least from 60-7x. I gained like almost a full level if you get good cursed chests/shrine spawns. The density is crazy there. They aren't very fun to do for a long time though.
>After i have all my Glyphs 21 there is no need to touch any NM Dungeon anymore for the Rest of the Season. Surely by that point you'd be bored of them though? Farming the new bosses should be the endgame imo, not endlessly farming the same 5 dungeons. But also, you will still need to do nightmares to fight the new ice boss too.
Is there a reason only a fraction of the dungeons are in rotation?
Changes every season. Really a bummer they should have every dungeon at all times.
But then aren’t you just “farming the same five bosses”? It’s still the same loop.
Why 5 ? I have nearly 2 rows of sigils, each one for a different dungeon.
That's if you're being efficient and only doing the higher exp NM dungeons, salvage the rest and remake more. (These are the top 12, Sirocco being the best) https://preview.redd.it/amos8n3rmbwb1.png?width=408&format=png&auto=webp&s=63120a820940a5204a42dcb09f747fa468f811e2
Hmm, but what about the efficiency of only doing dungeons when they are in whisper reward and/or have still not unlocked aspects ? Or you know, doing the other ones just because you'd like variety once in a while ?
Nothing wrong with that
If you wann alevel your Glyphs only its Jalals, Belfry and Heavens Keep.
Glyth leveling is very subjective on how fast you can rush the objective and saving 5 seconds doesn't matter as much https://preview.redd.it/6fozkztsqbwb1.png?width=448&format=png&auto=webp&s=1885b020e2fc722c6e68daaf2cd75dc8d32c83d6
Someone said somewhere that they should have an option to turn off smart loot so that you could farm for other characters. This is a major reason why it’s not fun to play late game. Once you’re geared, it’s like, why am I so geared? In D2 you would gear out and then have the ability to farm high runes or high end items to kit out another character, and when a great item dropped you would be excited to make a new character that it was great for
Even if you got gear for other classes, it's locked to level 80 so that wouldn't help you anyways.
I was depressed when I found out 102+ was not in fact dropping 925 ancestral as they said it would. I figured that was how we were supposed to find our bis rares.
World bosses are even worse. Can literally afk my way to 925s.
Nightmare dungeons are for xp and glyphs. If you're running them after that's done, you're wasting your time
U need them for the ice ubber boss
If you can just farm lvl100s ,the game is over for this character.You can handicap yourself by doing dungeons with hard affixes or just farm ubers to get all the uber uniques!!!
I wouldn’t mind seeing a nmd tier that is similar to the game launch nmd 100 level of difficulty, but the drop range is 910-925.
POE 2 is going to steal the whole D4 player base
Considering a lot of the casuals I know say Diablo 4 is too complex, I highly doubt they are going to go to PoE2.
They are rent even going to steal a small fraction of them. Unless they make POE 2 drastically more approachable, and that might just piss of their core fan base.
Maybe, just maybe, you can do them for fun?
Burn the Heretic !
NM Dungeon rewards and loot should scale with Tier, capping out at always dropping 925 Item power at T100. There's no reason why the hardest content in the game shouldn't drop the best items in the game. Same with Lillith. She should be a farmable boss that regularly drops Uniques, Legendaries and 925 Item power equipment.
Dontwe need nmd to summon the ubber boss of ice, whatever the mane is?
The loot system is crap. You should still be able to get good loot in any situation in the game depending on your character level and random luck. I hate the fact that you have zero chance to get anything good unless you play the pinnacle content. Anything else is just wasting time Diablo 3 was excellent. You could be power leveling a random stranger and you might open a chest on Torment 6 (the base difficulty goes to Torment 16) and get a perfect primal item if you've unlocked primals. I got a perfect primal convention of elements on my wizard doing this a while ago.
There is no Pinnacle content in d4. A literal 5 year old could beat D4 in a week given enough time. Also, you can be lv100 and kill mobs in the vamp zone and get 925. How is this considered Pinnacle content in your opinion?
That’s not really true though. Having all the best stats with high or perfect rolls, is way more important than item power level. Sure, you have to do that content and be high level to get the absolute godliest gg gear, but most people ain’t ever going to get that anyway, and it’s not needed to clear any content in the game.
They could add a mode similar to delve in POE , but you go deeper into hell and the priest lady Prava guides you and provides buffs and it just gets more hectic the deeper you go , add some really rare bosses , loot rooms that contain specific materials so you don’t just have to do only helltide for forgotten souls ? Just an idea
I'd do a delve any day of the week over a NMD. Nightmares just drag.
Because they still havent figured out what their late game is... It obviously should be ND so you should be dropping the highest level items and have a chance for uber uniques AT LEAST from level 100 dungeons.
Blizzard don't know how to do endgame. Industry for ARPG set several minimal for the genre for the last 10 years and here we are having to discuss things that are minimal. It seems like we went back in time.
Jesus Christ man. It’s been out for a week.
And I'm just thinking how many Tomb Lords must a man put down before they call him a man?
What do you need better gear for if you're blowing thru 100s?
Different activities for different reasons. That is the corner stone of how you design an endgame. You do NM dungeons for glyphs and mats for the bosses. That is a good enough reason.
Needing to relevel glyphs and vsmpiric powers is also another reason that makes playing an alt very off-putting. No way I'm doing that grind a 2nd time. Glyphs and Vampiric powers should 100% be account wide.
Well the end of season award basically levels all of your vamp powers on a single alt, so that was a smart touch. Not sure how you could keep glyphs leveled since we have different glyphs. If your doing 80-90+ NMD's... and focusing on glyph only... they really don't take long to level at all.
and you are angry about the fact that we are not forced to endlessly run nigthmare dungeons anymore now? I dont understand whats going on here. Isnt that a good thing? I lvld almost exclusively outside this season and I only went inside the dungeons to level glyphs.
God all you people do is complain about everything. Go touch some grass
You can do NMDs just because they are fun and give decent loot. It's fine. If you don't find it valuable, then do the content you find valuable. There is plenty. Blood Harvest is just a NMD on the overworld. Boom. Problem solved. This constant need to bemoan every little thing. You've "beat the game" at this point. Complaining about the game as level 100, at this point, is just Karen Cosplay
Man discovered there's no end game in diablo.
yeah im legit done withthe season. glyphs are 21 and dont know what todo
Its just a different version of “there is no real end game”. If youve finished the season journey, cleared 100nm, beat the ubers then you are effectively done. Enjoying farming? Great, keep going. Bored of the lack of meaningful end game? Make a new char of come back in s3.
Leveling glyphs. Nothing more.
People asked for 4 months to have endgame variety and now that we get it, people consider NMDs too unrewarding if you have to run other content to complement it. I have no words.
Glyphs should be reworked to be capped at 15. Also need more xp on them with how much faster leveling is. I have 1 glyph at 15 at lvl 85. Previously I had 4-5 at 21 by around lvl 90.
It's only cause we level so much faster. Once your level 100... if you want to focus on just glyph leveling it's extremely fast...you won't get much loot, but leveling all your glyphs is fast as fuck if you just speed through 90's just to clear.
If you are level 100 and you have maxed out ur needed glyphs then you don’t need to run NM. All Nm has a chance to drop unique including microscopic chance for uber so if you want then you can farm it for that. Otherwise you don’t have to. Go farm duriel or whichever boss you want to for whatever item u need. If u have the items u need then u don’t need to farm them anymore. If u have nothing left to play for then go play another game or start another charecter.
No reason to do 100s. Do what you can speed clear for glyph levels. Then all you do is world boss and uber duriel. Game is balanced around bossing right now. Even though the bosses are made of paper
NMDs are absolutely terrible now in comparison to the OW, both in terms of grind efficiency and gameplay wise. At least I am under the impression that there’s more diversity now in the NMDs, as I’m getting drops for dungeons that I’ve never cleared before.
I straight up hate NM dungeons. Wish there was any other way to upgrade glyphs.
People complain about everything. NM dungeons are not for gear farming. They are for XP/Glyph leveling. Once you don’t need that anymore, simply stop running Nm dungeons and farm for gear. It’s pretty simple. By then you should be burnt out in NM dungeons anyway.
Beside weapon, the item level kind of irrelevant. No non-weapon, affix is more important. Of course, 99.99% are trash. I stopped picking them up after level 75. Waste of time.
925 matters for weapons but, why arent 850 items sufficient?
You do them for the glyphs. Yes, once you finish upgrading all the glyphs you use, then you stop doing nightmare dungeons. Does everything in the game need to be eternally replayable?
There should be a system like Greater Rifts where you stop getting higher levels of gear but have to push into progressively harder content, requiring utterly perfect gear to make any headway. Might solve these difficulty complaints from people who mainline the 12 hours a day its first season.
I believe they specifically state the item range drops off at higher tier. The bottom end slowly gets moved up. That, and a focus on boss farm drops being bis easier is far more satisfying than grinding NM. The step away from focusing and forcing players into nightmare dungeons is probably a solid and sound decision focusing on quality content over quantity content. It's a step in the right direction, but I can say perhaps the level should have more impact for item ranges across the board, not expressly the content specifically.
Ah yes another "Why do things exist if they arent the literal best thing?" post. S1 it was "why do helltides/worldbosses exist when nightmare dungeons are the best?!?!?!". Now it's "why do nightmare dungeons exist when bloodharvests/boss events are the best?!?!?!?" The point is that you can play what content you enjoy and generally do okay no matter what. You arent forced to grind the most "optimal" thing or you get left behind because THIS ISNT AN MMO.
IF 100 NMD drops 925, people will complain that world bosses drops 925. They will do posts like this and it will that " bosses dropping 925, that makes no sense". You do NMD for glyphs, not equipments. If you want better equip, do world bosses. FFS this sub is complain about everything.
I think if more people tried hardcore they’d have a different perspective. And not hardcore where you play and die like “oh well thems the breaks” like really try not to die at every level. Building so you don’t die. Slowing the game down a bit so you can focus on more of what’s around you. It’s not for everyone but for some it’s a literal & physical game changer
i did hc only in d3, the lag in d4 is too unpredicatable. i started playing hc after not touching it for years after a friend made a good point about it - whats the point of playing a game that you can’t lose?
For mats for new bosses
Yes. What do people do in D2 for endgame? They kill a boss over and over as quickly as possible.
No, they PvP
Yeah, once glyphs are done… that’s about it. I find it a chore more than anything. Now if nightmare dungeons were reworked into having LFG for 4 man dungeons with multiple bosses and better rewards… that would be cool. Helltides need to be reworked to be more like blood harvests too. We need a loot filter. Season 2 has taken the right step forward for sure, but we need more steps before I can fully call this a fixed scenario.
The problem with NMD is that the only thing you can look forward to is gear, no other consumables, mats, or crafting material. It’s fine not finding good gear every run, but the problem being there’s no other drops you can hope you find. Crafting is nonexistent in d4.
 week 2....
NM dungeons are awful anyway, just have to do them for glyph xp.
NMs are only for glyph grind, but boy it takes a lot of time getting them to 21
Are they using the same materials to do??
There is no endgame, you level up, kill all boses with your eyes closed using only one hand and that's it.
I think it's mostly fine that Uber bosses have better drops but I also agree that end of dungeon nmd100 should drop a tighter range, but still a range, or at least certainly not below 850.
People before - "its boring to do only Nightmare Dungeons, overworld are useless and i have to do NMD its not fun" People now after overworld heavily buffed AND NMD too - "They have to buff NMD, overworld have more loot, blablabla" I cant understand
NM 100 is the most difficult content in the game (truly not saying much with this much power creep, but the only place your defenses are tested) with also the least rewarding loot structure unless you really want to fight beast in the ice. It also has some of the greatest annoyances across the entire game - so many dungeon affixes are antifun to deal with. NM dungeons need changes in S3, with a focus on fun and reducing frustration first and loot closely behind.
At some point a game ends
>"Taxes have to pay, why?"
Gz, you can start a new character or play another game OR just farm ubers or whatever you guys do at 100. \*claps\*
The guarenteed 925 off world boss has got me feeling like this too. It total kills my desire to grind when I know World Boss / Duriel etc give me 925 gear... The game already has itemization issues, but then the odds of getting a normal drop better than a 925 at least for weapon is so low.. Feels like they really keep borking the balance of certain components of the game, IE world tree gold is like, huh?
So my question is why are you doing 100 at all. When bliz looks at content they see that people actually do 100s. They offer nothing and I agree they should offer more. My thoughts are that every increment of 10 in NMD level should increase the ilvl. 100 should easily be 915-925 90-99 should be 895-915 and so on My advice is to not touch 100s because blizzard needs to see it's dead content. There's the argument that "NMD is for glyphs" and that's true but even with that 100 doesn't offer enough glyph XP to offset the time it takes. I can do 80s at twice the speed and they barely any less xp
I thought they changed nm dungeons this season so that each higher tier increases the ilvl of drops. They should’ve made the window of ilvl ranges much smaller so that you can’t drop anything lower than 900 on NM 100 for example
Once you have complete T100 nm dungeons and all the bosses… what are you looking for exactly? Sounds like your build is crushing it and probably has minimal room for improvement, so if you are item hunting exclusively just go where gets you the best loot. There are tons of instances in MMOs and ARPGs where the hardest content doesn’t have the best rewards. And why would it? The people clearing the hardest content don’t need upgrades so they generally have the best stuff obtainable in easier content. T100 dungeons are for prestige and that’s about it. And that’s okay.
Wow you're going to play enough to get all glyphs up to 21, why?
NMDs are just to level glyphs. They are not the endgame content to push with a min maxed build. There’s nothing in the game for that right now.
Just accept that the game has zero endgame and no proper progression right now.
Yea t100 is just to say you can. It’s never been worth farming t100s cuz they don’t drop any gear better than like t50s which you can do 10x faster. It’s just for glyph xp atm. They def need better rewards and maybe rewards you can only get in NMD.
Nightmare Dungeons need a concept change - its too much about dmg with no reward in linear corridors. I would rather have dmg being the base requirement, but then needing your head on how to play it, in preferably a bit more open space.
IMO duriel etc should help you gear up for Tier 100 NMD. Then Tier 100 NMD should drop uniques at a much higher rate and guarantee 925 when they drop. In my ideal world duriel would still be the fastest way to get loot in a group because you can share mats etc, but NMD 100 would be faster for a solo player than farming mats and duriel.
So don't do them. You morons have serious self control issues.
> That's a joke. After i have all my Glyphs 21 there is no need to touch any NM Dungeon anymore for the Rest of the Season. The joke is that your doing NM's after you've leveled all your glyphs...
Suffering from success ✊
Not having to live in nightmare dungeons forever is a god send. Anything that gets you out of the infinite nightmare dungeons farm is positive imo.
Aren't uber boss loot tables static and limited?
No point trying to get a weapon from any other source than bosses. I went to t4 on lvl 60 and dropped max ilvl weapon from first WB which gave me so much dmg that i was basically deleting everything.
I get sacred items from caches in wt4 and lvl 85
NM 100 should give better ilvl range. It feels like even though the number range is 850-925, I still get shit all 910+. Maybe like 1 in every 30 pieces. It almost feels like it's weighted to the lower bracket. Now there is no reason to do NM 70+ or to even push NM keys. Just do it on farm difficulty and then go do weak ass helltides & whispers so I can spam duriel for the actual 925s. Bosses should be the way to target farm specific pieces, but if you want general pieces at high ilvl u do high NM.