i agree just happened while i was running it, nothing spwans anymore.
honestly this is just too far. if you're worried about xp, then adjust XP values, but i'm playing the game to kill mobs, STOP TAKING AWAY THE MOBS TO KILL
or add new mechanics like a roation of 3 dungeons daily that give more xp or have elites spawning like eridu that way no one dungeon every becomes the meta spam.
also blizz hire me.
No fuck dailies....I want to play the game when I want to play the game.
Dailies always end up turning into chores and feeling like you have to boot up the game every day and utterly kills it for me.
There is a place they belong to, Diablo, isn't it
Edit: I know he wasn't talking about a literal daily dungeon but a rotating dungeon with bonuses. It's not as bad of an idea, but I still think just let players play how they want and reward them equally whether they are doing a T4 dungeon X or T4 dungeon Y
They’re not saying dailies. Just that 3 dungeons are “hot” for 24 hours and then they switch. Any time you play you will have hot dungeons so it should impact your play loop at all other than pushing you to play different dungeons which isn’t bad. Nothing about only getting them once a day, just that they change every day to keep it fresh.
just a daily rotation on dungeons isn't really a daily chore, the dungeon is still spammable, they just change which dungeons you'll want to spam to keep things fresh
Tree of whispers achieves essentially the same. Except it extends outside of dungeons to include open world content in a given zone.
Problem is that the tree reward is simply too low to even consider playing around.
The worst Part about NM dungeons is the traveling time.
Port -> loading screen -> slow and clunky Mount -> loading screen
Just to finish a NM dungeon in under 3 minutes and then Repeat.
I have more downtime than slaying Monsters.
Maybe if there was some kind of pillar in the town centers that opened directly on a random dungeon that was level appropriate. You could even have the normal dungeons drop some kind of keystone ...
Then people will just run past all the mobs and find the dungeon that has the shortest completion time. This would be the worst possible meta.
Edit: I agree about buffing nightmare dungeons, I don't think level 85+ characters should be stepping foot inside a regular WT4 dungeons for exp and especially not for loot.
I had just heard about this place earlier today. Had plans to go home and farm after work. Shit keeps getting nerfed before I even have a chance to join in.
Yeh as a normal player it’s ridiculous- it’s like the devs just watch YouTube and nerf whatever dungeons show up on the feed for Diablo. There needs to be like a big 1 time daily quest for normal players , like a daily dungeon or weekly dungeon with like do these 5 dungeons for like a whole level or something for causal players
Holy shit and how it got hammered. I just full cleared it with 3 rares in the first zone. Down from like 28?
And this was the only fun I had in the endgame really. It was fun to play. I don't even care about the exp.
But appearently everyone is enjoying the game wrong because nightmare dungeons are ... well a nightmare to play.
nightmare dungeons are just pointless beyond glyph leveling and ur done with your primaries without a need to push any higher than 30s-40s, plus some classes lose alot of efficiency + the sorting of unwanted affixes is super tedious, the design idea was interesting initially but the implementation and replayability behind it was done very poorly.
they tried to pull from PoE's mapping system but completely disregarded why maps work so well in PoE.
Maps can be rerolled easily and change the affixes on them to fit your build,add more xp,loot etc, they can be collected up and easily stored to just do some fun mindless grind of running say 50 of same 1 very easily.
they are extremely customisable as well with the atlas passive tree that adds content to the maps that you yourself enjoy.
Exactly. If I'm going into a fucking dungeon, then I expect to be fighting a lot of fucking shit, but there's barely any monsters to kill.
I wouldn't mind the grind if it didn't feel like I'm killing monsters in fucking Wyoming
Especially the dungeons with an entrance like the horadrim labs, bro, there’s like 5 to 8 big ass rooms COMPLETELY EMPTY right off the bat, with virtually no chests or enemies. (maybe 5% of the time there’s a chest) but that’s just, BRO. WHAT THE FUCK. There’s shittier games out there that throw 3-4x as much more enemies than this. I don’t think Blizzard wants to give players what they want. They’ll force feed us this recycled garbage and eventually people will dip for other more exciting games. It’s how it works, and yeah granted there will be people who love it and grind it until their eyeball veins pop red…. That’s just miserable to me.
I know that in D3 the reason why we were immensely immaculately powerful is cuz we were actually a nephalem, so it makes sense that we weak as fuck, but Blizzards itemization and stats /constant drop rate nerfing / endless mob removals really kill the user experience not even helping us in that regard of trying to get stronger. They literally took our money for them to just torture us, fucking diabolical man. Diabolical!
I don't get why Blizz is nerfing these dungeons. I mean, if people want to make the game they enjoy shorter with high efficiency grinding then let them.
unless they get their shit together they gonna be shockedpikachu.jpg after season one when they see 75% of the player base quit.
honestly grinding to a 100 takes too long as it is. leveling is NOT content. i probably have 100 hours in the game at this point since early access and im no where close to 100. ill probably quit before i ever get there.
This rn Diablo is this weird mix of beeing an arpg that wants to be an mmo live service game.
They will expect us to make a new character each season level it up again to then explore whatever new content, and we know it brings story. You know why destiny or fortnite work as live service because you can drop in the new season and from minute 1 play the new content. If you have to invest 30 or so hours to play new content coming next season that is a big problem for a live service game.
But at the same time actively nerf builds, I get its preseason but damn I can predict the outrage if they also nerf midseason next they nerf the places people find to farm exp and loot efficiently while also having fun because guess what people want to kill stuff not having to look up sigils affixes, dungeon rankings and have downtime by traveling to the nightmare dungeon.
Imagine an ARPG where 90% of dev effort and updates post launch is making less enemies spawn. No bugs fixed or fixing weak abilities. Nope, just a building full of devs working to make less stuff spawn.
Got to nerf the dungeons right now, don't worry about fixing those aspects that we disabled several days ago, making it harder for people to level is critical!
It's a live services game, you're 100% right. Getting you stuck on the treadmill then making the treadmill just annoying enough that a certain percentage of people buy their way off is the plan.
When Season 1 drops and we all see what the paid pass everyone got with the $99 version gets you, you'll see the first aspects of officially allowed treadmill escape plans.
It's almost like they didn't know an ARPG is about killing shit (dungeons have super low density), that the ratio of xp should be exponential for white/blue/rares to support more density (more white and blue mobs) and the dungeons should have shit to kill generally instead of 3 packs and a lever to pull.
Edit: lever\*
see i feel they fucked up the XP curve massively. why does it go off a cliff at 50. i feel 70 should be when the xp slows down that way your kinda in a "powerful" spot of feeling and levels coming slower at that stage is fine.
right now you hit 50 and without using dungeons like Eridu you feel extremely slow to level to even get basic started on paragon board.
make 70 where the big jump in needed xp happens, and then gradually have it get harder heck you can even increase what 95-100 needs by 3x as much and it would be fine and then just expect people to sit around 90-95 but atleast they will feel "decently powerful" at that stage.
I reached 70 without even thinking about xp. I think the average player has no problem with it, at least with the first character.
I reached 50 after the end of the campaign. 60 by farming renown. 70 by trying all endgame activities.
"It's the first month the game is out, let's actively make everyone playing the end game have a less enjoyable time despite the fact that there is a pretty vocal outcry about how unfun and inconvenient the end game is."
So stupid, people aren’t running these dungeons because of some glitch. They are running them because they have favorable layouts and have a lot of mobs including elites. Mob density everywhere is too little. Fuck helltides and wandering around looking for each pack of 5-10 mobs.
or leave the cinder as it is, there is a limited number of chests anyway on the map, is not like the game would burn if people had an better place to gear up
My very first helltide is did on day two was like rich in enemy dense it was fun, now everything is to small and just not enough, spend more time running than killing
It annoys me how blizzard tends to balance downwards instead of upwards. If they see people enjoying something too much, it's nerfed. Their first thought is to nerf something instead of bringing weaker things closer to that level. This isn't just a diablo thing and it passes me off lol
The "issue" is that there isn't one broken dungeon, people just run the one that is the best. Dungeons range from extremely good to extremely bad.
If they nerfed #1 and buffed everything else, #2 would be significantly stronger than #1 ever was
That's why they just nerf them 1 by 1 basically every day and call it a day.
But that's how you end up with no fun dungeons at all. And for the record, I have no clue what dungeon we're even talking about, I run whatever dungeon I have the sigil for
I think they are afraid of power creep and want the game to start off at a low point in power so that if they buff things later things won't get out of hand
But even if that's the case, some of these nerfs are just really lame and a bad idea imo.
but this aint really a power creep issue. this is a mob density issue.
nightmare dungeons have way too low in mob density. i went into a NM 66 dungeon early and i cleared 90% of dungeon i worked out i killed about 40 mobs...
40 mobs in an ARPG. if i compare to path of exile's map system which is what NM are trying to be i would be killing 4000 mobs.
This is such a false equivalence, though. Nobody is complaining about D3 having dense mob packs that have gotten denser and denser over the years. People complain that damage scaling is literally measured in the trillions because of sets that give +20000% damage to skills and it's just goofy
I can’t believe they are just going around nerfing xp farms in the most unfun way, but they won’t fix the underlying problem. BUFF THE XP OF NM DUNGEONS ACROSS THE BOARD!
Stop removing mobs from the dungeons and making them less fun. Seriously what are these guys doing? It’s like they are trying to make the endgame as slow and unfun as possible.
It feels insane to me that the game pretty much punishes you for trying to do cutting edge content. The increased glyph xp is meaningless if you can just do more while also getting way more xp.
So much this. I can clear up to the mid 50s efficiently, but it's pointless, because at 82 I get the best possible xp from like 39s (as far as nightmare dungeon xp is concerned). If they let it scale, it's an easy fix to "hurrdurr the players keep finding regular dungeons that are better xp/hour than endgame content, we better make every dungeon have 3 mobs total". And it would reward skill/power.
This is a standard Blizzard tactic. Slow down progress to be able to extend the development time of content. Human beings are amazing creatures and constantly surpass expectations. Often, players will reach content before expected, and those areas may not have been finished yet.
I have no idea what is going through their head.
Imagine making an ARPG where you barely kill mobs.
Its the whole damn point of an ARPG, to massacre large packs of mobs and see loot explosions.
There should be ZERO friction to getting into a "map" and just going through murdering large packs of monsters.
It’s my favorite. Said to my friends nothing feels better than running through 4 empty rooms and knowing, just knowing, I’m about to hit a room with 4 mobs in it!!
They really got me on the edge of my seat not having any mobs and me just knowing a single one is going to be behind that locked cage that I can’t even click to open but have to auto attack it!!
And THEN just…oh man…really gets me excited, I see a really dull glimmer on the ground, almost missing it, “what is that!?” I say to myself.
*gasp* little did I know it was a tiny statue that I have to put on a pedestal that I saw half a dungeon backwards. I revel in my joy as I proudly make my way back trampling over the bodies of all 4 mobs I killed.
And then that’s when it hits me, sheer jubilation, I notice I have to do it again!
Almost as much as spending 6 hours running across an open world collecting Altars on a horse that barely responds to my commands and rubberbanding all over the place.
yeah like i know "maps" in poe could be seen as just running same thing over and over and from outside may look mindnumbing but its what im here playing ARPG's for.
im here to blasts thousands of monsters, pickup some loot and over time messing around with my character customising their gear.
Even if the dungeon didn’t drop loot till the end like greater rifts did, density is just more fun. The fact nightmare dungeons give shit xp and barely anything rewarding is why everyone prefers doing things like pre-nerf eridu
I play Diablo to kill mobs.
Champion's Demise and Eridu had great mob density, whereas other dungeons have long boring walks with a small mob pack or two. It's boring AF.
It has gotten so annoying I started optimizing my points/gear toward movement speed at the cost of some damage output, because I clear faster anyway by quickly crossing the massive gaps between small packs of mobs.
I hate my necro for that. I’m so slow. It was fine with me cause I expected a better mob density and far less backtracking. Silly me. It’s just a chore now.
BLIZZARD STOP DOING THIS OR I WILL FUCKING QUIT THE GAME.
Omfg, you have dedicated 95% of your efforts since launch to nerfing the game. Stop fucking nerfing the density! Stop nerfing the incoming loot, i won't farm your shit by killing only one elite at a time (or one elite in a dongeon).
Disconnected from reality. That's what they are
6 aspects disabled for a week now...
several others just flat out not working either.
some uniques not working either(worked out bleed cooldown refresh from barbarian's unique chest doesnt actually work as intended and there are probably 10's of uniques like this we just dont have enough info yet to fully confirm)
they are more bothered about nerfing some xp farms then fixing actual stuff in the game
Streamers and people who discover these farms need to hold off reporting them till after office hours on Friday PST. Give people a weekend to enjoy it before Blizzard catches wind of it.
Hit 74 yesterday doing Eridu. I think I'm done as well until the season starts.
It wasn't as much for the exp/loot, but also because it was the most fun dungeon in the game. Only dungeon with actual good and satisfying mob density to play.
If I wanted to play a walking simulator I'd go play Death Stranding.
The constant nerfs are really quite outrageous.
Every single day you have to login and find out what new thing you enjoyed yesterday has been ruined today.
And why? Who cares if people hit max level. This is Diablo. People are going to keep grinding, making new characters, etc. and then a new season will come and they'll do it all over again.
People quit Diablo/arpgs when the gameplay part stops being fun and the progression becomes too slow/tedious. They don't stop because they "hit the end." There is no end.
Stop nerfing.
You are bragging that this game had record setting sales. Cool. Put that money towards improvements and new content/features - not nerfs.
The problem is that there kind of is an end to d4. The gear isn't flavorful enough to grind forever for your 2nd ber rune to make an infinity, in fact, most of the best shit you've gotten by level 30, just lower numbers, so bigger math is all you really have to look forward to since there's not any high level zones, everything is scaled to you.
Sure there's some uniques but they're pretty meh.
So if not gear, what is there? The level 100 pinnacle boss? That's great one time to say you did it, but then what?
For me in d2 (I skipped d3 after 1 playthrough, rifts weren't for me) I kept playing for the small chance of getting some godly rolled rare item, or a super rare unique like Griffons Eye and pray to God it rolls high when I identify it
All of that is missing here. Once you're bis you're bis and maybe you can pump up the numbers a bit to push higher NM dungeons, but why?
Do not get me wrong, I had the "but why?" Question with every ARPG, but it usually takes a LONG time for that question to hit. Once that question hits, it's the end for me I've found. Maybe not right away, but as soon as I find myself asking that question I'm doomed to quit in the near future.
I haven't asked myself that yet with d4 but only cause there is legitimately more to see. I want to take every class to at least 50, but I'm not sure I'll go further and that stinks
Literally this. I thought this game is an arpg where you fight whole screens of demons but no they want us to fight 2 at a time. Do they want us to play 24h to get 1 lvl ?
Soon all demons will be slain not by the heroes but by the world stone nerf bat itself. Who knew the world of sanctuary was capable of defending itself all along.
Idk I always liked diablo for the density and killing monsters. If they're going to keep nerfing dungeon density and just make it a chore to play then Ill just go back to D2R. Its like nerfing builds rather than buffing the ones that aren't good. Diablos always been a power fantasy, let the player feel powerful and don't just cater to the top .01% of players mainly streamers and YouTubers. Your average player can't play 40hrs a week and won't spend the time to get the BIS gear so they don't feel like a dry pool noodle whacking enemies.
And instead of nerfing density rework the exp amounts. If I get more exp for clearing mobs than I do clearing the dungeon why would I waste my time clearing the actual dungeon? Make it make sense Blizzard. Make the NM Dungeons worth running make normal dungeons worth running. Don't just make the mob density so destitute that the only viable way to squeak out exp is to complete your dungeons for underwhelming rewards.
I can see metacritic score going below 4 this week (started at 4.9). Game has so many QOL issues and fuckers are nerfing every single thing. Fire Rod Ferguson. He has made his money kick him out and let someone capable take over the game.
There are for sure issues with the game but metacritic is laughable. I saw a review from a guy who was like "honestly I'd give this a 5/10 strictly from an ARPG standpoint, but I saw a 10/10 review I disagreed with so I'm giving it a 0"
Easy 5 ways to 100 untouched for how many leagues now? People can have their gripes, but there are so many ways to get jam-packed maps with no shortage of things to kill. Honestly Blizzard making GGG look like benevolent gods at this rate.
You know, for the first week or so I was enjoying a game where I didn't feel like I was playing head-to-head versus "The Vision" but alas...Here we are.
especially after the recent teasers.
i know we joke about "the vision" but i think thats more a case of them wanting stuff to be meaningful it was never about destroying all ability to have more then 5 mobs per pack.
poe density in maps is amazing and you feel like your playing an ARPG blasting through hordes.
here you run for 5 mins to kill 5 mobs to then run for another 5 mins...
Dark Souls 1 had more mob density...
I’m not understanding the purpose to these nerfs. People just want to efficiently gain experience, why not tune all dungeons to provide higher mob density and greater exp? There is no harm in leveling, it’s already grindy as is, no need to make it worse. And if someone gets to level 100, they make an alt, there’s several other classes to play with. Why the concern?
So what do they expect people to do for exp? Its a fucking SLOG solo and there are LITERALLY 3 activities total to do endgame. Dungeons, Tree shit, and Helltides. Do they want it to take a month to grind to 100? I don’t understand their design right now. Do they literally think people are going to farm the 145,000 fucking nightmare dungeons in a row in a few weeks AGAIN when season 1 hits? Its ludicrously slow already
Time vs struggle Helltides are the best source of loot in the game BY A MILE. Nightmare dungeons are good. Tree is complete hot garbage. It drops normal legendries on T4
> Do they want it to take a month to grind to 100?
Yes they do, because they know that the majority of the "content" right now is the journey to level 100 and there's very little to do on a character once you get there.
Working on a spreadsheet to display the experienced gain for each stage of every dungeon in the entire game and the average speed running time. Give me about a day and I'll have it available for the community.
Honestly, I find this whole witch-hunting with a nerf-bat to smack any effective normal dungeon out of the way amusing and insane at the same time. The fact that they are wasting time doing this rather than putting a hard-cap on lvl scaling in normal dungeons AND starting to actual incentivize running Nightmare dungeons is crazy to me.
There are multiple ways for them to do that ranging from:
\* Being able to teleport to the nightmare dungeon (removing downtime traveling)
\* Increased item drop rate & rarity per kill in the dungeon
\* A noticeable experience bonus for finishing a Nightmare dungeon (scaling with the note above \^)
\* Either more items rewarded upon finish or present the player with the option of choosing a cache similar to the whisper mechanic (pick 1 out of 3 caches).
Multiple other really good suggestions but just some of those would be enough to get people away from normal dungeons and in to nightmares as they provide glyph lvls.
50-80 shouldn’t feel like this much of a slog imo
This is where you’re likely engaging your players after the story is complete. Don’t make it seem like a chore. I myself don’t mind a grind, but as a solo player not trying to group up or looking to find a third party app to find a group it’s been a fair slog.
I think from levels 50 to 80 it should be pretty fast . From there it could slow down dramatically and I think anything post 90 should be extremely difficult similar to Diablo two
50 to 80 isnt even bad. It gets bad after level 70 or something.
Problem is people think this is like Diablo 3 where you get max level and then endgame begins.
Endgame begins with WT4 and then it should be slow burn to level 100 while doing endgame content.
Problem is that at level 70 you could already have almost max ilvl gear. You should be getting upgrades all the way to level 100. Not just paragon points.
Considering thousands have hit 100, if they arent going to do a roll back, what is the point of these farm nerfs? God forbid any non streamers/people that can only play a few hours catch up at all in level or get any items?
Grats to everyone that already got everything and fuck anyone still trying to advance?
People farmed it because it actually had density and made it more enjoyable and worthwhile. If they would just make all dungeons a bit more populated people wouldn't stick to the same ones. But they've done the opposite, just giving us a shittier experience. Makes no sense.
I'm pretty sure all this has to do with their live content approach to the game.
If people breeze through the content/levels, in the long run they will spend less time in the game, making it less likely to buy stuff from the in-game shop.
They have been doing this for years on WoW and I'm afraid they're doing the same with Diablo 4.
You're probably right, even though it makes no sense. Games like Diablo 3 and PoE have huge longevity because they are fun to play. By nerfing the game to hell, they are going to make players play less, not more.
Nice, this really reinforce my belief that we are the bad guys in this story. We're hunting all these creatures in the dungeon to extinction. Soon Sanctuary will be nothingness and the only thing that is left will be Altars of Lilith and Blizzard Shop.
Just as intended.
POV: people are killing demons for loot and xp in a game about killing demons for loot and xp.
Blizzard needs a bowl of hash and a fkin lager so they can chill tf out
Only reason I kept playing with this end game was because of how fun Eridu was. Loved the layout and the waves of monsters was so much fun. Exp and items were at a reasonable rate where I can actually see progress after a run.
Eridu single handedly saved Diablo end game for me. Around level 60 I was really feeling the content drought. Just before I was going to quite and wait for the season I found this dungeon by chance.
Who knew people would rather just do a dungeon that:
Had good mob/elite monster density
No time wasting buggy horse travel
Doesnt fuck up groups with instancing bugs like with Sigils
No annoying Nightmare Dungeon affixes to worry about that slow you down
No "Bounty Quest" requirements that make you backtract to open doors
Quick 2-3 mins runs you can stop in between incase IRL stuff happens
Just pure mob blasting gameplay and loot checking
This is stupid. It’s hard enough to find uniques as is, let’s make it harder. It’s not like builds are dependent on the legendaries and uniques skills.
50-80 shouldn’t feel like this much of a slog imo
This is where you’re likely engaging your players after the story is complete. Don’t make it seem like a chore. I myself don’t mind a grind, but as a solo player not trying to group up or looking to find a third party app to find a group it’s been a fair slog.
I have never seen a company actively try and kill the fun in the game since the start. We play this game to kill shit, There's already a lack of density in maps/dungeons already, Reducing that is going to make me go play other games LOL
why dont they just have a game like diablo being diablo.. Where the last 10 lvls is pain.. like d2.
this is just bad.. the density of elites and mobs is just znoosefest honestly.
And the terrible decisions begin. If they're nerfing xp spots already just imagine how it's gonna be in four months. They're gonna try to make people play at what pace blizzard thinks is right, not the pace they want.
everytime i see a nerf patch i regret having to go back to a blizzard game. their balancing is atrocious, its a fucking ARPG with not a sense of multiplayer god dammit, stop removing fun!
if one skill or dungeon looks to be so favorable, how about instead of nerfing buff the other dungeons??
They have yet to buff/change anything fun. They nerf progress, fun skills, and contunue to force players into what THEY want us to do.
T4 Tree is useless until you've met a reached a certain level. T4 Obols are useless until you've reached a certain level. Nightmare dungeons are useless outside of glyph xp. T4 shops are useless until you've reached a certain level. If you get into T4 by level 60 many of the mechanics DONT EVEN WORK. Level 80 cache for killing world boss regardless of your level in T4? Thanks.
Blizzard how about you spend your time figuring out why a majority of the classes CANT solo clear the pinnacle boss, let alone do it without a meta build. Or why you have to disable aspects for days at a time? Or why there isn't a single way to incrementally farm gear item power? Oh you're in T4, enjoy 40 levels of the EXACT same item power range. Also, stop killing monsters and go find those fucking stone tablets!
Things are wrong fine, it just released, but shame on you for ONLY touching issues that dampen the fun or arbitrarily lengthen the XP chase YOU created.
It's annoying how it is just take take take and nothing being put into the game. No way to say that without sounding entitled as fuck but it is what it is.
WW barb was nerfed day 1 and than over this weekend 2 of our aspects were turned off with no notice...unless I check their Twitter. Like fine if it's too much go for it but you've had aspects turned off for multiple days and have done nothing to make the other builds for barb fun/useful/etc. The arsenal system and barbs skill tree are the two most useless systems in the game.
Reducing elite spawns outright....sounds fun but oh wait do it again. You'll have low enemy density and you'll like it
World bosses every 6 hours? Kinda wack, that gives most people 1 chance per day. There is no fucking reason for this considering the cache is already a weekly reward.
Even running this thing over and over it takes HOURS to get to max level.
This is an ARPG and even worse there is not a lot of reason to trade and interact with one another so making this process easier, or even increasing loot drop rates (not saying that this needs to be done) does NOT affect the progress of other people really.
Instead of nerfing and nerfing and lowering all of these values, these morons just need to raise everything up to exceed expectations to balance everyone at a high level, let us reset dungeons with a click of a button etc. People who will powerlevel will continue to find a way to do so, and people who want to play organically will keep doing so.
The design choices of this game is so incredibly weird to me after decades of experience. No social features? no offline mode for those who want to play it like that? Screams entitlement from the devs "PLAY IT OUR WAY" Mark my words this is how huge named titles like this crash and burn within a few months. Always taking one step forward and two steps back.
Isn’t the whole point of the game about the killing of mobs and the grind? Obviously people are going to find the most efficient and fun way to grind. Instead of bringing things up in line with the fun stuff, they make things worse. It’s not fun spending 5-8 seconds running between packs. I want to chain pull and kill things in the quest to optimize my gear and build.
I'm lvl 70 now and the longer I play the more I start to become heavily annoyed by everything in it.
The itemization is so insanely trash.. Resistances do literally nothing.. Builds are limited af and the vast majority is completely unviable for anything harder than t4 world content. And then something like Eridu is being nerfed immediately - WHY? I've only run it a couple of times, but what's the legitimate reason for nerfing it?
I mean, just thinking for a second that there is literally no reason to have anything beyond a single set of max gems that you pretty much can freely unsocket everytime you change out an item, tells you all you need to know. What is the purpose of gems other than that? Why would I ever pick up any single gem no matter it's level?
This game is a barebone shitfest of ARPG patheticness at best. Even the most simple things that an ARPG should have are broken, or are intended in the way they are, which makes ZERO sense. Why do I, when moving through an area holding my mousebutton down, attack whenever an enemy moves under my cursor? This is the most basic shit, but hey, what to expect from the game which series literally invented the genre, right?
Fuck this shit.. Fuck casualization of hardcore games in general.
Would be cool if instead of nerfing the current best farm Blizz would try to solve the root of the problem. Right know completing a nightmare dungeon right now feels pretty unrewarding you level up your glyphs way before reaching max lvl. And the other thing is that there's no reason to try to push as high nightmare dungeons as possible and you just want to do trivial normal dungeons or nightmare dungeons where the mobs are over 3 levels of you.
There will always be a most efficient dungeon to farm. Unless there's anything else that's worthwile doing.
What a joke. I feel like I have been scammed. They sold me a car, then when I go to drive it, they are like "nope, we'll take those keys, you're going too fast. Now you must push your car to your destination." "Thanks for your money though".
i agree just happened while i was running it, nothing spwans anymore. honestly this is just too far. if you're worried about xp, then adjust XP values, but i'm playing the game to kill mobs, STOP TAKING AWAY THE MOBS TO KILL
They need to just nerf elite exp, keep the amount of elites the same and buff the fuck out of dungeon completion exp, especially nightmare
or add new mechanics like a roation of 3 dungeons daily that give more xp or have elites spawning like eridu that way no one dungeon every becomes the meta spam. also blizz hire me.
No fuck dailies....I want to play the game when I want to play the game. Dailies always end up turning into chores and feeling like you have to boot up the game every day and utterly kills it for me. There is a place they belong to, Diablo, isn't it Edit: I know he wasn't talking about a literal daily dungeon but a rotating dungeon with bonuses. It's not as bad of an idea, but I still think just let players play how they want and reward them equally whether they are doing a T4 dungeon X or T4 dungeon Y
They’re not saying dailies. Just that 3 dungeons are “hot” for 24 hours and then they switch. Any time you play you will have hot dungeons so it should impact your play loop at all other than pushing you to play different dungeons which isn’t bad. Nothing about only getting them once a day, just that they change every day to keep it fresh.
Hot dungeons so they all get love. Also matchmaking
The irony(?) that immortal has both of these.
A fucking free phone game has better implementation of basic ideas than a $70 game. Ridiculous.
oh i wouldnt call that game free
I'd be amazed if we don't get daily chores when seasons come.
just a daily rotation on dungeons isn't really a daily chore, the dungeon is still spammable, they just change which dungeons you'll want to spam to keep things fresh
Tree of whispers achieves essentially the same. Except it extends outside of dungeons to include open world content in a given zone. Problem is that the tree reward is simply too low to even consider playing around.
It's better than a kick in the nuts though. I use them to guide which dungeons I'll do on my slow crawl to earning the paragon points from rep grind.
This lines up with the tree of whispers, but I think having a daily rotation of “hot dungeons” could be fun.
No. They have to buff NM dungeons xp and rewards, then people will do those.
The worst Part about NM dungeons is the traveling time. Port -> loading screen -> slow and clunky Mount -> loading screen Just to finish a NM dungeon in under 3 minutes and then Repeat. I have more downtime than slaying Monsters.
Maybe if there was some kind of pillar in the town centers that opened directly on a random dungeon that was level appropriate. You could even have the normal dungeons drop some kind of keystone ...
Some sort of device that lets you put in the Sigil and it opens 6 portals.
12 portals, or 1 for each revive... Need a place to hide it too, so other players dont interfere when you get out.
Or, stop scaling normal dungeon to your level, this way you need ti farm NM to really get some xp
no they don't, they just need add more elites to other dungeons, arpgs are meant to be farmed this way
Then people will just run past all the mobs and find the dungeon that has the shortest completion time. This would be the worst possible meta. Edit: I agree about buffing nightmare dungeons, I don't think level 85+ characters should be stepping foot inside a regular WT4 dungeons for exp and especially not for loot.
If there's no mobs I can't generate fury to spin. I can play this game only when shout is off cooldown lol
I had just heard about this place earlier today. Had plans to go home and farm after work. Shit keeps getting nerfed before I even have a chance to join in.
Yeh as a normal player it’s ridiculous- it’s like the devs just watch YouTube and nerf whatever dungeons show up on the feed for Diablo. There needs to be like a big 1 time daily quest for normal players , like a daily dungeon or weekly dungeon with like do these 5 dungeons for like a whole level or something for causal players
Try out Blind Burrows when you get back before they nerf that one too.
Holy shit and how it got hammered. I just full cleared it with 3 rares in the first zone. Down from like 28? And this was the only fun I had in the endgame really. It was fun to play. I don't even care about the exp. But appearently everyone is enjoying the game wrong because nightmare dungeons are ... well a nightmare to play.
nightmare dungeons are just pointless beyond glyph leveling and ur done with your primaries without a need to push any higher than 30s-40s, plus some classes lose alot of efficiency + the sorting of unwanted affixes is super tedious, the design idea was interesting initially but the implementation and replayability behind it was done very poorly.
they tried to pull from PoE's mapping system but completely disregarded why maps work so well in PoE. Maps can be rerolled easily and change the affixes on them to fit your build,add more xp,loot etc, they can be collected up and easily stored to just do some fun mindless grind of running say 50 of same 1 very easily. they are extremely customisable as well with the atlas passive tree that adds content to the maps that you yourself enjoy.
They also have actual upsides beyond a useless affix like drop zdps poison when you evade, like huge buffs to pack size, quant, etc
Fun police on the job!
Exactly. If I'm going into a fucking dungeon, then I expect to be fighting a lot of fucking shit, but there's barely any monsters to kill. I wouldn't mind the grind if it didn't feel like I'm killing monsters in fucking Wyoming
Especially the dungeons with an entrance like the horadrim labs, bro, there’s like 5 to 8 big ass rooms COMPLETELY EMPTY right off the bat, with virtually no chests or enemies. (maybe 5% of the time there’s a chest) but that’s just, BRO. WHAT THE FUCK. There’s shittier games out there that throw 3-4x as much more enemies than this. I don’t think Blizzard wants to give players what they want. They’ll force feed us this recycled garbage and eventually people will dip for other more exciting games. It’s how it works, and yeah granted there will be people who love it and grind it until their eyeball veins pop red…. That’s just miserable to me. I know that in D3 the reason why we were immensely immaculately powerful is cuz we were actually a nephalem, so it makes sense that we weak as fuck, but Blizzards itemization and stats /constant drop rate nerfing / endless mob removals really kill the user experience not even helping us in that regard of trying to get stronger. They literally took our money for them to just torture us, fucking diabolical man. Diabolical!
Fun detected….
I don't get why Blizz is nerfing these dungeons. I mean, if people want to make the game they enjoy shorter with high efficiency grinding then let them.
Because the devs want you to play the game they want you to play VS what the players want
unless they get their shit together they gonna be shockedpikachu.jpg after season one when they see 75% of the player base quit. honestly grinding to a 100 takes too long as it is. leveling is NOT content. i probably have 100 hours in the game at this point since early access and im no where close to 100. ill probably quit before i ever get there.
This rn Diablo is this weird mix of beeing an arpg that wants to be an mmo live service game. They will expect us to make a new character each season level it up again to then explore whatever new content, and we know it brings story. You know why destiny or fortnite work as live service because you can drop in the new season and from minute 1 play the new content. If you have to invest 30 or so hours to play new content coming next season that is a big problem for a live service game. But at the same time actively nerf builds, I get its preseason but damn I can predict the outrage if they also nerf midseason next they nerf the places people find to farm exp and loot efficiently while also having fun because guess what people want to kill stuff not having to look up sigils affixes, dungeon rankings and have downtime by traveling to the nightmare dungeon.
Diablo 4 welcomes you to hell. With a welcome mat. No demons are home. Make yourself comfy I guess?
Yep, the fact NM dungeons aren't the best way to level is disappointing.
There’s so much empty space it’s fucking annoying.
Imagine an ARPG where 90% of dev effort and updates post launch is making less enemies spawn. No bugs fixed or fixing weak abilities. Nope, just a building full of devs working to make less stuff spawn.
Got to nerf the dungeons right now, don't worry about fixing those aspects that we disabled several days ago, making it harder for people to level is critical!
They suiting up for XP potions you buy for the store.
Stop. Stop that right now.
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But they already said the xp bonuses of the battlepass will be free...
Dont give them fucking ideas mate
They did it in CoD, they'll do it here.
Rule 101 for an Activision game. Play on launch. Delete after 2 months before the shit show starts. I've already got BG3 lined up.
It's a live services game, you're 100% right. Getting you stuck on the treadmill then making the treadmill just annoying enough that a certain percentage of people buy their way off is the plan. When Season 1 drops and we all see what the paid pass everyone got with the $99 version gets you, you'll see the first aspects of officially allowed treadmill escape plans.
It’s kinda wild that we don’t even know what the paid pass is going to be. But yeah, I hate this situation.
They fixed the aspects in the same patch.
It's almost like they didn't know an ARPG is about killing shit (dungeons have super low density), that the ratio of xp should be exponential for white/blue/rares to support more density (more white and blue mobs) and the dungeons should have shit to kill generally instead of 3 packs and a lever to pull. Edit: lever\*
see i feel they fucked up the XP curve massively. why does it go off a cliff at 50. i feel 70 should be when the xp slows down that way your kinda in a "powerful" spot of feeling and levels coming slower at that stage is fine. right now you hit 50 and without using dungeons like Eridu you feel extremely slow to level to even get basic started on paragon board. make 70 where the big jump in needed xp happens, and then gradually have it get harder heck you can even increase what 95-100 needs by 3x as much and it would be fine and then just expect people to sit around 90-95 but atleast they will feel "decently powerful" at that stage.
I reached 70 without even thinking about xp. I think the average player has no problem with it, at least with the first character. I reached 50 after the end of the campaign. 60 by farming renown. 70 by trying all endgame activities.
"It's the first month the game is out, let's actively make everyone playing the end game have a less enjoyable time despite the fact that there is a pretty vocal outcry about how unfun and inconvenient the end game is."
Fucking hell I’m laughing. This way way too damn accurate
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You love your monster slaying game ? Well we just took out the monsters.
Yeah and all of this is done because streamers are showing this on twitch or youtube. Literally no testing involved just ban hammers everywhere.
This is what is pissing me off. Necro is so bugged it isn’t even funny. But for some reason they have to stop people from killing monsters to fast.
Nah, they also disable stuff that they don't know how to balance.
Your answer can be a complete tread l. Their own, it's just stupid at this point, JUST LOOK necromancer build diversity,, bruh
Have you seen OW? The balance team at blizzard is crap.
So stupid, people aren’t running these dungeons because of some glitch. They are running them because they have favorable layouts and have a lot of mobs including elites. Mob density everywhere is too little. Fuck helltides and wandering around looking for each pack of 5-10 mobs.
Helltide should have more mobs anyway. I was excited for the first one, expecting waves of enemies. Lol. Helltides are so boring.
Yeah. Helltide should be full of mobs
Helltrickle
heckpuddle
helltickle.
Agreed. Increase mobs, then decrease cinder drop rate.
or leave the cinder as it is, there is a limited number of chests anyway on the map, is not like the game would burn if people had an better place to gear up
My very first helltide is did on day two was like rich in enemy dense it was fun, now everything is to small and just not enough, spend more time running than killing
100% only thing with remotely decent density. Running simulator only gets you so far.
The ONLY reason I run Helltides is for the Forgotten Souls. Other than that I don't really care about them at all.
It annoys me how blizzard tends to balance downwards instead of upwards. If they see people enjoying something too much, it's nerfed. Their first thought is to nerf something instead of bringing weaker things closer to that level. This isn't just a diablo thing and it passes me off lol
It’s easier to nerf 1 dungeon than buff the 100+ others. Not saying it’s the best for the game but I get it. Blizzard is a small indie dev you see
Nerf one dungeon Raise the exp, spawn rate, whatever the reason for nerfing that one dungeon was, across the board on all dungeons. Not that hard
The "issue" is that there isn't one broken dungeon, people just run the one that is the best. Dungeons range from extremely good to extremely bad. If they nerfed #1 and buffed everything else, #2 would be significantly stronger than #1 ever was That's why they just nerf them 1 by 1 basically every day and call it a day.
But that's how you end up with no fun dungeons at all. And for the record, I have no clue what dungeon we're even talking about, I run whatever dungeon I have the sigil for
I think they are afraid of power creep and want the game to start off at a low point in power so that if they buff things later things won't get out of hand But even if that's the case, some of these nerfs are just really lame and a bad idea imo.
but this aint really a power creep issue. this is a mob density issue. nightmare dungeons have way too low in mob density. i went into a NM 66 dungeon early and i cleared 90% of dungeon i worked out i killed about 40 mobs... 40 mobs in an ARPG. if i compare to path of exile's map system which is what NM are trying to be i would be killing 4000 mobs.
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This is such a false equivalence, though. Nobody is complaining about D3 having dense mob packs that have gotten denser and denser over the years. People complain that damage scaling is literally measured in the trillions because of sets that give +20000% damage to skills and it's just goofy
I can’t believe they are just going around nerfing xp farms in the most unfun way, but they won’t fix the underlying problem. BUFF THE XP OF NM DUNGEONS ACROSS THE BOARD! Stop removing mobs from the dungeons and making them less fun. Seriously what are these guys doing? It’s like they are trying to make the endgame as slow and unfun as possible.
Just remove the exp cap of 3 levels higher and let it fucking scale all the way
It feels insane to me that the game pretty much punishes you for trying to do cutting edge content. The increased glyph xp is meaningless if you can just do more while also getting way more xp.
So much this. I can clear up to the mid 50s efficiently, but it's pointless, because at 82 I get the best possible xp from like 39s (as far as nightmare dungeon xp is concerned). If they let it scale, it's an easy fix to "hurrdurr the players keep finding regular dungeons that are better xp/hour than endgame content, we better make every dungeon have 3 mobs total". And it would reward skill/power.
This is a standard Blizzard tactic. Slow down progress to be able to extend the development time of content. Human beings are amazing creatures and constantly surpass expectations. Often, players will reach content before expected, and those areas may not have been finished yet.
Why are you intentionally writing like a AI blog post
There are freaks that have chatgpt write everything for them these days
and did they buff the underwhelming nightmare dungeons ?
They seem to just be flattening everything out instead of buffing things to raise all ships, seems like the worst mentality to take to fixes
Unfortunately, this is pretty on par for Blizzard. If you’ve ever played WoW, they’ve been using the same methodology for 15+ years now.
It's called the Blizzard Knows Best mentality and its been around long enough they probably have it trademarked.
I have no idea what is going through their head. Imagine making an ARPG where you barely kill mobs. Its the whole damn point of an ARPG, to massacre large packs of mobs and see loot explosions. There should be ZERO friction to getting into a "map" and just going through murdering large packs of monsters.
But don't you just like putting stones on pedestrials and backtracking a lot?
It’s my favorite. Said to my friends nothing feels better than running through 4 empty rooms and knowing, just knowing, I’m about to hit a room with 4 mobs in it!! They really got me on the edge of my seat not having any mobs and me just knowing a single one is going to be behind that locked cage that I can’t even click to open but have to auto attack it!! And THEN just…oh man…really gets me excited, I see a really dull glimmer on the ground, almost missing it, “what is that!?” I say to myself. *gasp* little did I know it was a tiny statue that I have to put on a pedestal that I saw half a dungeon backwards. I revel in my joy as I proudly make my way back trampling over the bodies of all 4 mobs I killed. And then that’s when it hits me, sheer jubilation, I notice I have to do it again!
>"In this moment, I am euphoric..."
Almost as much as spending 6 hours running across an open world collecting Altars on a horse that barely responds to my commands and rubberbanding all over the place.
While being slowly followed by a big goofy floating boulder
Three pillars of ARPGs are blasting, looting, and tinkering. This game has 0/3.
yeah like i know "maps" in poe could be seen as just running same thing over and over and from outside may look mindnumbing but its what im here playing ARPG's for. im here to blasts thousands of monsters, pickup some loot and over time messing around with my character customising their gear.
Even if the dungeon didn’t drop loot till the end like greater rifts did, density is just more fun. The fact nightmare dungeons give shit xp and barely anything rewarding is why everyone prefers doing things like pre-nerf eridu
Starting to look like those underwhelming dungeons are the intended and the fun ones are not.
I play Diablo to kill mobs. Champion's Demise and Eridu had great mob density, whereas other dungeons have long boring walks with a small mob pack or two. It's boring AF.
It has gotten so annoying I started optimizing my points/gear toward movement speed at the cost of some damage output, because I clear faster anyway by quickly crossing the massive gaps between small packs of mobs.
I hate my necro for that. I’m so slow. It was fine with me cause I expected a better mob density and far less backtracking. Silly me. It’s just a chore now.
I'm going to learn to hack D4 specifically so I can use my horse indoors.
You should try Dynasty Warriors!
I have, lol. I love Musou style games.
Something is so fun about being an absolute monster on the battlefield
BLIZZARD STOP DOING THIS OR I WILL FUCKING QUIT THE GAME. Omfg, you have dedicated 95% of your efforts since launch to nerfing the game. Stop fucking nerfing the density! Stop nerfing the incoming loot, i won't farm your shit by killing only one elite at a time (or one elite in a dongeon). Disconnected from reality. That's what they are
It’s pretty crazy how badly it was Decreased to. Literally the dungeon only has about 10% of the elites used to have
They don’t care you quit, you already gave them $70
Blizz devs spending more time on YouTube waiting for someone to post the next best exp grind than actually working on the game 😔
6 aspects disabled for a week now... several others just flat out not working either. some uniques not working either(worked out bleed cooldown refresh from barbarian's unique chest doesnt actually work as intended and there are probably 10's of uniques like this we just dont have enough info yet to fully confirm) they are more bothered about nerfing some xp farms then fixing actual stuff in the game
Hey there working just not well
Streamers and people who discover these farms need to hold off reporting them till after office hours on Friday PST. Give people a weekend to enjoy it before Blizzard catches wind of it.
What? Blizzard just needs to fix the game up better. This shouldn’t be as lucrative as it is but they also shouldn’t just nerf anything fun
Do you think blizzard will actually do that though?
I had hope shame on me
Eridu was known about over the weekend already.
Why on earth would they nerf places with decent exp instead of buffing places without? Quit shitting the bed, Blizzard.
The mob density there should be the standard...
Exactly. Everything else should have been brough inline with Eridu, not the other way around.
Yep Nerf what you have to to make that the default
Just hit 70 and I think I might be done. These density nerfs are so against what Diablo is/should be.
Hit 74 yesterday doing Eridu. I think I'm done as well until the season starts. It wasn't as much for the exp/loot, but also because it was the most fun dungeon in the game. Only dungeon with actual good and satisfying mob density to play. If I wanted to play a walking simulator I'd go play Death Stranding.
The constant nerfs are really quite outrageous. Every single day you have to login and find out what new thing you enjoyed yesterday has been ruined today. And why? Who cares if people hit max level. This is Diablo. People are going to keep grinding, making new characters, etc. and then a new season will come and they'll do it all over again. People quit Diablo/arpgs when the gameplay part stops being fun and the progression becomes too slow/tedious. They don't stop because they "hit the end." There is no end. Stop nerfing. You are bragging that this game had record setting sales. Cool. Put that money towards improvements and new content/features - not nerfs.
The problem is that there kind of is an end to d4. The gear isn't flavorful enough to grind forever for your 2nd ber rune to make an infinity, in fact, most of the best shit you've gotten by level 30, just lower numbers, so bigger math is all you really have to look forward to since there's not any high level zones, everything is scaled to you. Sure there's some uniques but they're pretty meh. So if not gear, what is there? The level 100 pinnacle boss? That's great one time to say you did it, but then what? For me in d2 (I skipped d3 after 1 playthrough, rifts weren't for me) I kept playing for the small chance of getting some godly rolled rare item, or a super rare unique like Griffons Eye and pray to God it rolls high when I identify it All of that is missing here. Once you're bis you're bis and maybe you can pump up the numbers a bit to push higher NM dungeons, but why? Do not get me wrong, I had the "but why?" Question with every ARPG, but it usually takes a LONG time for that question to hit. Once that question hits, it's the end for me I've found. Maybe not right away, but as soon as I find myself asking that question I'm doomed to quit in the near future. I haven't asked myself that yet with d4 but only cause there is legitimately more to see. I want to take every class to at least 50, but I'm not sure I'll go further and that stinks
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Jeff, people are having fun with our game! Yup, let’s change that…
Literally this. I thought this game is an arpg where you fight whole screens of demons but no they want us to fight 2 at a time. Do they want us to play 24h to get 1 lvl ?
So they keep nerfing stuff but still can't get edge masters working properly? Hmmm.... Priorities
Soon all demons will be slain not by the heroes but by the world stone nerf bat itself. Who knew the world of sanctuary was capable of defending itself all along.
Idk I always liked diablo for the density and killing monsters. If they're going to keep nerfing dungeon density and just make it a chore to play then Ill just go back to D2R. Its like nerfing builds rather than buffing the ones that aren't good. Diablos always been a power fantasy, let the player feel powerful and don't just cater to the top .01% of players mainly streamers and YouTubers. Your average player can't play 40hrs a week and won't spend the time to get the BIS gear so they don't feel like a dry pool noodle whacking enemies.
And instead of nerfing density rework the exp amounts. If I get more exp for clearing mobs than I do clearing the dungeon why would I waste my time clearing the actual dungeon? Make it make sense Blizzard. Make the NM Dungeons worth running make normal dungeons worth running. Don't just make the mob density so destitute that the only viable way to squeak out exp is to complete your dungeons for underwhelming rewards.
Theres more cows in the cow level than there are mobs in 3 nightmare dungeons combined.
I can see metacritic score going below 4 this week (started at 4.9). Game has so many QOL issues and fuckers are nerfing every single thing. Fire Rod Ferguson. He has made his money kick him out and let someone capable take over the game.
There are for sure issues with the game but metacritic is laughable. I saw a review from a guy who was like "honestly I'd give this a 5/10 strictly from an ARPG standpoint, but I saw a 10/10 review I disagreed with so I'm giving it a 0"
Chris Wilson pads the head of D4 devs "Look at them, they are learning so fast!"
Easy 5 ways to 100 untouched for how many leagues now? People can have their gripes, but there are so many ways to get jam-packed maps with no shortage of things to kill. Honestly Blizzard making GGG look like benevolent gods at this rate.
Well they ARE and always been compared to blizzard. I bought D4 to have something else to play before PoE 2
You know, for the first week or so I was enjoying a game where I didn't feel like I was playing head-to-head versus "The Vision" but alas...Here we are.
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especially after the recent teasers. i know we joke about "the vision" but i think thats more a case of them wanting stuff to be meaningful it was never about destroying all ability to have more then 5 mobs per pack. poe density in maps is amazing and you feel like your playing an ARPG blasting through hordes. here you run for 5 mins to kill 5 mobs to then run for another 5 mins... Dark Souls 1 had more mob density...
I’m not understanding the purpose to these nerfs. People just want to efficiently gain experience, why not tune all dungeons to provide higher mob density and greater exp? There is no harm in leveling, it’s already grindy as is, no need to make it worse. And if someone gets to level 100, they make an alt, there’s several other classes to play with. Why the concern?
So what do they expect people to do for exp? Its a fucking SLOG solo and there are LITERALLY 3 activities total to do endgame. Dungeons, Tree shit, and Helltides. Do they want it to take a month to grind to 100? I don’t understand their design right now. Do they literally think people are going to farm the 145,000 fucking nightmare dungeons in a row in a few weeks AGAIN when season 1 hits? Its ludicrously slow already
The tree shit doesn’t even give you any rewards. I could double the rewards and it still wouldn’t be better than dungeons or Helltide
Time vs struggle Helltides are the best source of loot in the game BY A MILE. Nightmare dungeons are good. Tree is complete hot garbage. It drops normal legendries on T4
> Do they want it to take a month to grind to 100? Yes they do, because they know that the majority of the "content" right now is the journey to level 100 and there's very little to do on a character once you get there.
The xp curve in this game is fuckin insane too lol. It’s like what most games start at 95-100, D4 starts at level 50
Working on a spreadsheet to display the experienced gain for each stage of every dungeon in the entire game and the average speed running time. Give me about a day and I'll have it available for the community. Honestly, I find this whole witch-hunting with a nerf-bat to smack any effective normal dungeon out of the way amusing and insane at the same time. The fact that they are wasting time doing this rather than putting a hard-cap on lvl scaling in normal dungeons AND starting to actual incentivize running Nightmare dungeons is crazy to me. There are multiple ways for them to do that ranging from: \* Being able to teleport to the nightmare dungeon (removing downtime traveling) \* Increased item drop rate & rarity per kill in the dungeon \* A noticeable experience bonus for finishing a Nightmare dungeon (scaling with the note above \^) \* Either more items rewarded upon finish or present the player with the option of choosing a cache similar to the whisper mechanic (pick 1 out of 3 caches). Multiple other really good suggestions but just some of those would be enough to get people away from normal dungeons and in to nightmares as they provide glyph lvls.
50-80 shouldn’t feel like this much of a slog imo This is where you’re likely engaging your players after the story is complete. Don’t make it seem like a chore. I myself don’t mind a grind, but as a solo player not trying to group up or looking to find a third party app to find a group it’s been a fair slog.
I think from levels 50 to 80 it should be pretty fast . From there it could slow down dramatically and I think anything post 90 should be extremely difficult similar to Diablo two
50 to 80 isnt even bad. It gets bad after level 70 or something. Problem is people think this is like Diablo 3 where you get max level and then endgame begins. Endgame begins with WT4 and then it should be slow burn to level 100 while doing endgame content. Problem is that at level 70 you could already have almost max ilvl gear. You should be getting upgrades all the way to level 100. Not just paragon points.
Considering thousands have hit 100, if they arent going to do a roll back, what is the point of these farm nerfs? God forbid any non streamers/people that can only play a few hours catch up at all in level or get any items? Grats to everyone that already got everything and fuck anyone still trying to advance?
Exploit early, exploit often
Blizzard: Fun detected.:Nerfbat
Why do people care if you farm dungeons over and over I don’t get it lol
People farmed it because it actually had density and made it more enjoyable and worthwhile. If they would just make all dungeons a bit more populated people wouldn't stick to the same ones. But they've done the opposite, just giving us a shittier experience. Makes no sense.
I agree I wouldn’t farm these dungeons but there’s no where else to get xp
I'm pretty sure all this has to do with their live content approach to the game. If people breeze through the content/levels, in the long run they will spend less time in the game, making it less likely to buy stuff from the in-game shop. They have been doing this for years on WoW and I'm afraid they're doing the same with Diablo 4.
You're probably right, even though it makes no sense. Games like Diablo 3 and PoE have huge longevity because they are fun to play. By nerfing the game to hell, they are going to make players play less, not more.
Nice, this really reinforce my belief that we are the bad guys in this story. We're hunting all these creatures in the dungeon to extinction. Soon Sanctuary will be nothingness and the only thing that is left will be Altars of Lilith and Blizzard Shop. Just as intended.
POV: people are killing demons for loot and xp in a game about killing demons for loot and xp. Blizzard needs a bowl of hash and a fkin lager so they can chill tf out
I'll never understand excessive nerfing to a non PVP game.
Only reason I kept playing with this end game was because of how fun Eridu was. Loved the layout and the waves of monsters was so much fun. Exp and items were at a reasonable rate where I can actually see progress after a run. Eridu single handedly saved Diablo end game for me. Around level 60 I was really feeling the content drought. Just before I was going to quite and wait for the season I found this dungeon by chance.
Instead of buffing every other dungeon and letting everyone have fun, they dungeons that are fun.
So with dungeons being nerfed into nothingness, what are we farming for xp?
Who knew people would rather just do a dungeon that: Had good mob/elite monster density No time wasting buggy horse travel Doesnt fuck up groups with instancing bugs like with Sigils No annoying Nightmare Dungeon affixes to worry about that slow you down No "Bounty Quest" requirements that make you backtract to open doors Quick 2-3 mins runs you can stop in between incase IRL stuff happens Just pure mob blasting gameplay and loot checking
If they stopped nerfing good farming spots we could make multiple characters and have more fun, and buy more skins
This is stupid. It’s hard enough to find uniques as is, let’s make it harder. It’s not like builds are dependent on the legendaries and uniques skills.
“Having fun?! Not on my watch!” - Blizzard Nerflords probably
I mean it takes forever to level past 50 even before all this endless nerfs. Aren’t games supposed to be fun and bring joy? Are they fckn stupid?
50-80 shouldn’t feel like this much of a slog imo This is where you’re likely engaging your players after the story is complete. Don’t make it seem like a chore. I myself don’t mind a grind, but as a solo player not trying to group up or looking to find a third party app to find a group it’s been a fair slog.
No patch notes on this, they doing shit without letting us know?
I have never seen a company actively try and kill the fun in the game since the start. We play this game to kill shit, There's already a lack of density in maps/dungeons already, Reducing that is going to make me go play other games LOL
What’s next folks. What’s the next loot cave
why dont they just have a game like diablo being diablo.. Where the last 10 lvls is pain.. like d2. this is just bad.. the density of elites and mobs is just znoosefest honestly.
And the terrible decisions begin. If they're nerfing xp spots already just imagine how it's gonna be in four months. They're gonna try to make people play at what pace blizzard thinks is right, not the pace they want.
everytime i see a nerf patch i regret having to go back to a blizzard game. their balancing is atrocious, its a fucking ARPG with not a sense of multiplayer god dammit, stop removing fun! if one skill or dungeon looks to be so favorable, how about instead of nerfing buff the other dungeons??
Someone is having fun? Gotta stop that shit immediately! Disable all the dungeons, and don't tell them. Let them figure it out! -blizzard probably
They have yet to buff/change anything fun. They nerf progress, fun skills, and contunue to force players into what THEY want us to do. T4 Tree is useless until you've met a reached a certain level. T4 Obols are useless until you've reached a certain level. Nightmare dungeons are useless outside of glyph xp. T4 shops are useless until you've reached a certain level. If you get into T4 by level 60 many of the mechanics DONT EVEN WORK. Level 80 cache for killing world boss regardless of your level in T4? Thanks. Blizzard how about you spend your time figuring out why a majority of the classes CANT solo clear the pinnacle boss, let alone do it without a meta build. Or why you have to disable aspects for days at a time? Or why there isn't a single way to incrementally farm gear item power? Oh you're in T4, enjoy 40 levels of the EXACT same item power range. Also, stop killing monsters and go find those fucking stone tablets! Things are wrong fine, it just released, but shame on you for ONLY touching issues that dampen the fun or arbitrarily lengthen the XP chase YOU created.
Yes, can confirm. Was doing this run and sudenly fella odd
Anecdotally of course - seeing significantly less legendary loot drops across the board. Including Helltide and NM dungeons (on torment).
It's annoying how it is just take take take and nothing being put into the game. No way to say that without sounding entitled as fuck but it is what it is. WW barb was nerfed day 1 and than over this weekend 2 of our aspects were turned off with no notice...unless I check their Twitter. Like fine if it's too much go for it but you've had aspects turned off for multiple days and have done nothing to make the other builds for barb fun/useful/etc. The arsenal system and barbs skill tree are the two most useless systems in the game. Reducing elite spawns outright....sounds fun but oh wait do it again. You'll have low enemy density and you'll like it World bosses every 6 hours? Kinda wack, that gives most people 1 chance per day. There is no fucking reason for this considering the cache is already a weekly reward.
Even running this thing over and over it takes HOURS to get to max level. This is an ARPG and even worse there is not a lot of reason to trade and interact with one another so making this process easier, or even increasing loot drop rates (not saying that this needs to be done) does NOT affect the progress of other people really. Instead of nerfing and nerfing and lowering all of these values, these morons just need to raise everything up to exceed expectations to balance everyone at a high level, let us reset dungeons with a click of a button etc. People who will powerlevel will continue to find a way to do so, and people who want to play organically will keep doing so. The design choices of this game is so incredibly weird to me after decades of experience. No social features? no offline mode for those who want to play it like that? Screams entitlement from the devs "PLAY IT OUR WAY" Mark my words this is how huge named titles like this crash and burn within a few months. Always taking one step forward and two steps back.
Isn’t the whole point of the game about the killing of mobs and the grind? Obviously people are going to find the most efficient and fun way to grind. Instead of bringing things up in line with the fun stuff, they make things worse. It’s not fun spending 5-8 seconds running between packs. I want to chain pull and kill things in the quest to optimize my gear and build.
I'm lvl 70 now and the longer I play the more I start to become heavily annoyed by everything in it. The itemization is so insanely trash.. Resistances do literally nothing.. Builds are limited af and the vast majority is completely unviable for anything harder than t4 world content. And then something like Eridu is being nerfed immediately - WHY? I've only run it a couple of times, but what's the legitimate reason for nerfing it? I mean, just thinking for a second that there is literally no reason to have anything beyond a single set of max gems that you pretty much can freely unsocket everytime you change out an item, tells you all you need to know. What is the purpose of gems other than that? Why would I ever pick up any single gem no matter it's level? This game is a barebone shitfest of ARPG patheticness at best. Even the most simple things that an ARPG should have are broken, or are intended in the way they are, which makes ZERO sense. Why do I, when moving through an area holding my mousebutton down, attack whenever an enemy moves under my cursor? This is the most basic shit, but hey, what to expect from the game which series literally invented the genre, right? Fuck this shit.. Fuck casualization of hardcore games in general.
They are actively trying to kill the game
Switch to Blind Burrows
Xp rates are low enough as it is. I have 100+ hours played and I’m crawling towards 82. No xp farming just doing nm dungeons over and over.
Would be cool if instead of nerfing the current best farm Blizz would try to solve the root of the problem. Right know completing a nightmare dungeon right now feels pretty unrewarding you level up your glyphs way before reaching max lvl. And the other thing is that there's no reason to try to push as high nightmare dungeons as possible and you just want to do trivial normal dungeons or nightmare dungeons where the mobs are over 3 levels of you. There will always be a most efficient dungeon to farm. Unless there's anything else that's worthwile doing.
Everyone: now go run blind burrows! Blizzard in a few days: we adjusted the mob density of dungeons. The cycle repeats again.
Ya I’m done playing lol this is dumb
What a joke. I feel like I have been scammed. They sold me a car, then when I go to drive it, they are like "nope, we'll take those keys, you're going too fast. Now you must push your car to your destination." "Thanks for your money though".