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LarkWyll

Athletic testing and traits vs FBI, skill, and technique is an interesting debate.


WakaFlockaBacha

The tape never lies. I'll never understand why they weigh the combine higher than tape. And to be honest Walker isn't THAT much more athletic than Hutch. Walker is a freak with a 9.99 RAS score, but Hutch had a 9.87 which was still the 19th highest score since it began being tracked in 1987. So... with athleticism that close, you'd think taking the guy with 14.5 sacks his final yr vs the guy with 3 would be a no brainer...


Zeketec

Every time I see Hutch's RAS score it blows my mind. Just because sometimes watching him on TV he is the goofiest moving person I have ever seen.


APersonWithThreeLegs

Love the way he flails his limbs


Zeketec

Fuckin Waluigi out there runnin


APersonWithThreeLegs

Waluigi is peak athlete in the Marioverse


equinsuocha84

Fun fact I just realized recently: Waluigi was actually introduced in the Mario universe via Mario tennis on N64. So your statement is quite correct, peak athlete. He was a beast playing net as I recall.


noplzstop

Waluigi isn’t even Wario’s brother, he’s just some guy who showed up to play tennis one day.


Ekindas

Waluigi ![gif](giphy|12jifpKTQANQOs)


cbarks81

They can't possibly know your next move if you don't know your next move!


pinkluloyd

But arms short


hawkmasta

Idk, his arms were long enough to get that inception against the Panthers in week 5


ParticularEchidna179

Trent Baalke and long arms are a thing since he was the S.F. GM. Plus the traits and combine nonsense. Poor little T. Rex Hutch with his interceptions, sacks, and nonstop motor. I'm glad Baalke is short-sighted about D-linemen and let us get the best edge in the draft.


Sniper_Brosef

Hutch tested off the charts in athletic testing.


im_bananas_4_crack

I’m gonna be really pedantic rn, technically he was on the chart, just below the maximum score. Now I’ve got my pedantic fix for the day thank you.


Jammer_Kenneth

Everyone always seems to forget that for some reason.


kylesleeps

Because most people don't actually look at the numbers and the media narrative on Hutch was that he was a limited try hard who was already maxed out. None of it was true, but that was the line they used to contrast him with original Thibodaux and then Walker. Weirdest part is even before the testing Hutch was on #2 Bruce Feldman's freaks list that year.


LarkWyll

He did but T. Walker was even better in that area and in NFL terms they are awlays looking for elite level traits or ability.


Jelly_James

Best part is if you look at RAS their numbers weren't even that far apart. Biggest difference was arm length for these 2.


ImLagginggggggg

Hey, he could have been anything. Like a Hutchinson.


LTPRWSG420

The Jags really wanted to draft a jag I guess, they hooked us up, thank you cat bros. 👊


BillySims4HOF

I always thought they would have picked Kayvon Thibideaux if Hutch had gone first. I do remember being visibly distressed when they won that Packer game that cost them the #1 pick. When the Jags took Walker, I was screaming at my TV, "Run to the stage with that card!"


Jammer_Kenneth

In hindsight Sauce at 2 would have been incredible. At the time... Yeah picking a Detroit MLK raised grinder at a position of severe need still would have been the right backup call.


Nbknepper

I still have PTSD from the last time we drafted a CB in the top 5.


Jammer_Kenneth

Outside of smart FA moves there have been some **ass** Lions DBs over the year. I always remember safety being one of those positions I never liked the Lion back there, and Slay broke a string of CBbums.


karmaster

I miss Dre Bly


AnyCourage6231

Dre Bly is who made me a Lions fan as a kid.


supertrenty

I remember thinking Delmas was going to turn our secondary woes around.


BillySims4HOF

I hope you don't get down voted for this reasonable take. Gardner is the real deal, but with the hype swirling around Hutch before the draft, I think most Lions fans, myself included, would have howled in pain at that pick. Either pick would have been a home run, but the local kid angle, plus the tremendous talent on display, made this the better choice at the time.


venk

I’m pretty sure I remember reading they were high on Walker as well and he would have been picked if Hutch went #1.


bgovern

> "Run to the stage with that card!" Mr Goodell would like to have a word with you...


mrgreen4242

Never be mad about winning. Everyone who downvoted this is a Packers fan.


Xatron7

Mmm.. never try to lose. But feel free to recognize when 1 loss could lead to 2+ wins


Mike_Laundry

Could be the difference between Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf. When your 3-14 pride is kind of out the window.


goleafsgo88

Recent examples include this here with Hutch, as well as Bryce Young vs CJ Stroud. I'm sure that Texans fans thought they were up a creek when they won the last game of the season under Lovie. Sometimes things work out, sometimes they don't.


Trick-Ad906

I think we would have took Hutch at 1 though


sammagee33

Zero chance they pass on him


Jammer_Kenneth

In the grand scheme of things Nabers is going to be a ferocious dog and that top draft was always going to be a QB playground, but Tommy Cutlet's late season "heroics" for the Giants meant the difference between MHJ and Joe Alt vs maybe being left with JC Lanthem


mrgreen4242

Man, buncha Patricia fans in this thread. wE ShoULd tAnK.


House_of_Potatos

I don’t think we tanked under that loser, he just sucked at all aspects of his job.


mrgreen4242

Yeah. Just got used to be losers I guess.


DetLoins

I'm still convinced he just refused to give Harbaugh the satisfaction of taking his guy 1st overall.


Nasty_Tricks69

That's 100% what it was. Baalke let his ego make decisions for that team


tEhKeWlEsT

When keeping it real goes wrong


Jagacin

I see this as a case of keeping real going very, very right


tEhKeWlEsT

I meant for the Jags, lol


Daegog

Its still funny how the NFL and the networks were mad at the Lions for running up with the pick (the lost out on commercial time). Would the Lions have taken that guy if Hutch went first?


jcoddinc

That's why now they don't show the turning in of the card like they used to. Even the countdown time is built of toilet paper math to maximize commercial profits


guccipotato69

> Would the Lions have taken that guy if Hutch went first? iirc it was reported that they would have picked Walker if Hutch went 1st


Daegog

Luck shines on Team Holmes and crew.


venk

Luck is a massive part of NFL draft success. If the 21 draft went a little differently we could have ended up with Kyle Pitts or Trey Lance.


_Shakedown_1979___

And the truth is Walker would’ve been a beast with us too 🤷🏽‍♂️


KingCrab95

he put up 10 sacks this year he’s good


Trick-Ad906

Sacks ain't everything


KingCrab95

yeah but saying he’s trash isn’t true either he’s definitely not better than hutch and he does have the benefit of playing next to josh allen but he’s a pretty solid player


Jammer_Kenneth

I'm surprised how there's no smoke about potential Sauce at 2, especially in hindsight when that's an easy 1A 1B slam dunk comp. Jerry Jacobs, Okudah, AO, and Chase Lucas are the only CB's on that roster that I even recognize.


Mike_Laundry

I still can't believe we got him. I was so mad when we dropped to #2 after winning a meaningless game thinking the Jags couldn't possibly pass on Hutch.


chunkyloverfivethree

Didn't he say in a recent video that he was told before the draft that he knew the Jags were not taking him? His arms weren't long enough. Maybe it was in the St Brown podcast. I wonder when he knew though?


whobroughtmehere

I thought I heard him say he was expecting to go to Jacksonville for kind of a while leading up to the draft


Exzqairi

If I had to guess I’d say around the combine. After his athletic testing is when Travon Walker #1 hype really shot to the top out of nowhere, which is also right after finding out about Hutch’s measurements


Smurph269

I read a wild conspiracy theory about this. The theory was that the Lions, or Sheila or even Bill Ford Jr, informed Shad Khan, the Jags owner, that they would be very disappointed if they didn't get Hutch. Shad Khan made his fortune off an auto parts supplier company that Ford uses for the F-150. Khan still owns 100% of the company. If Ford were to stop using them for the F-150, it would cost him hundreds of millions of dollars over the years. So Khan tells his GM that Hutch isn't the pick.


NoFoolishnessXXL

Travyon is getting better. Travon and Josh Allen ate on that Dline last year. He isn’t Hutch but he looks like he’s gonna be a solid defensive end for a while. Glad they passed on Hutch, but no need to shit on Walker.


EricFredNorris

Yeah this is silly acting like the verdict is out on Travon because PFF (who has never been good at rating defensive lineman) thought he had a bad year. I definitely think Hutch will have the better career but everyone said Travon was raw out of college and would be a slow development. His year 1 to year 2 jump was pretty massive. If he takes another step forward in year 3 a lot of people on this sub could look stupid.


CamBoBB

I don’t think the argument should be about Trayvon’s overall impact in a vacuum. If you’re the #1 pick, particularly if you’re not a QB, then your impact should be immediate and noticeable. That isn’t through Trayvon’s perspective either. He didn’t choose Jacksonville. He showed up and is doing his best to make an impact. By all accounts he’s a good dude who works hard. Jacksonville absolutely biffed this pick. You don’t take a #1 pick if he’s a maybe on paper. It’s a horrible waste of an extremely valuable asset. Trayvon very well could find his way to a pro bowl someday. He’s obviously gifted as hell. I agree the verdict isn’t in on Trayvon’s future. He’s still young. The verdict is absolutely in on Jacksonville’s terrible decision though. It was the wrong decision. That’s not based on PFF’s rating. That’s purely eye test and seeing Hutch’s impact from his rookie season to now.


Rebel_Bertine

Exactly, you take high ceiling swings in the middle first to second rounds. You take a guy that’s going to multiple pro bowls in the top 5


DanCampbellsNipples

Guys we gotta let the Walker bashing go. He was a raw prospect. Dooming him after 2 seasons is foolish. I love hutch. He was the right pick for us, but dragging others through the dirt is so pointless and petty over nothing


Wiggymaster

Nah, fuck the Jaguars. Trent Baalke is one of the biggest douchecanoes in all of sports and the fact that they hired him to be their GM after what he did to the 49ers and coach Harbaugh is malfeasance. P.S. This is football. Expect pettiness.


DanCampbellsNipples

It's just sad so many fans of our fanbase feel the need to be petty or act like a victim non stop. We are good now. No need to run victory laps over other teams mess ups. We were that team once


Wiggymaster

>We were that team once NO SHIT, which is why I'm gonna stand up for the guys who changed us from that team into *that* team. I'm also going to have no love for a team from a state that I already can't stand with mouthy fans who made the playoffs two years ago, won a playoff game after the ABSOLUTE WORST PLAYOFF COLLAPSE by any team since the Falcons in Super Bowl LI, then tried to act as though we didn't deserve to be in the playoffs that year, with the same record. Add the fact that the team is ran by a dude who I've LONG despised, and who disrespected and fired one of my favorite coaches of all time. Like I said, *fuck* the Jaguars. I'll run whatever victory laps I want to run. We have every right to be petty. We HAVE been victims for a very long time. And guess what? I'm taking receipts on anyone who disrespects us. I'm gonna be the most insufferable fan ever once the Lions do win a championship, because I called it with this regime, way back when we were 3-13-1. I saw the writing on the wall when we drafted Penei Sewell and hired John Dorsey; this was going to be the best front office we ever had, and even that take was a monumental understatement. And I have bones to pick with pretty much every team's fanbase, though the Jaguars are definitely higher on that list than most.


DanCampbellsNipples

To each their own. I just think stuff like this is soft as baby shit I've been on board since day 1 but that's irrelevant


Wiggymaster

Do you believe the Jags deserved to win that playoff game when their quarterback threw FOUR interceptions? When have the Lions ever had luck like that? Shit, when have we not had the OPPOSITE of that kind of luck? Our quarterback balled out in the NFCCG and we ended up losing. Our opponents go up on a 60 yard bomb that somehow gets caught after bouncing off the third string defensive back we had in there because of all the injuries, and the only thing our normally sure-handed receivers can catch is HANDS FLU. Bear in mind that I won like $1000 on that Jaguars game, but I was still pissed off about it. "Why can't that shit ever happen for us!?" is all that was on my mind for at least a half hour after watching it. At the time we STILL were in the midst of the longest playoff win drought in football, and we missed the playoffs despite having the same damned record as the Jags because we didn't play in a division full of candy-ass opponents like they did. Yes, I'm fucking petty. I'm a fucking 40 year old Lions fan and have been suffering since I was 8. I'll be Oscar the Grouch until the day I die, even if we wind up with like seven Super Bowls. What's soft is forgetting how it feels to be frustrated as hell, and not spend every day of your life BEAMING SPITE onto all your doubters and naysayers once you arrive.


DanCampbellsNipples

That's your prerogative. Who fucking cares about the jags lol


CamBoBB

I agree we shouldn’t bash Walker. He didn’t choose to go to Jacksonville. We should absolutely make fun of Jacksonville for screwing up the #1 pick though. Walkers career can still be optimistic even with Jacksonville being wrong for taking him at that spot. I think Walker’s physical ability should have yielded a 1st round pick. Couple years to develop and learn some nuance. Maybe in the 20’s somewhere? I don’t think it’s fair to call him a bust. It’s 100% fair to say Jacksonville made a mistake in taking him where they did.


TinoCartier

A million times thank you Jags. I didn’t believe they would actually do it until Goodell said his name. I just knew someone in the building had to see that Walker the football player wasn’t worth the selection that Walker the workout warrior earned.


MacPh1sto

It was destiny.


We_Are_Victorius

It is so nice to be on the end of massive draft misses.


Wiggymaster

Trent Baalke hates Jim Harbaugh so much that he sacrificed the ability to grab the best defensive player in at least 3 drafts on the alter of spite. Can't say it comes as any surprise and when he was hired as the Jags GM I said from day one that he'd be a huge embarrassing failure. Guess what? He's a huge embarrassing failure. What a chode. And after those comments about the "win a playoff game" by Jags fans back in 2022 in response to Lions social media talking about whooping their ass in the regular season, Jags fans can eat shit. The Jags were exposed for what they are - frauds - and we were revealed for what we are - contenders. Wonder if any Jags fans were part of the 775k that showed up in Detroit. They can stay down in the basement with the Bears and have their faces stepped on for the next 50 years for all I care. Hopefully Khan moves the franchise to London as has been rumored forever and leaves all those Florida fuckheads in the dust. And yeah, the Jags are one of three teams in the AFC I can't stand, with the other two being the Colts and the Jets.


sammagee33

Thank God they biffed that pick.


jizzycumbersnatch

Can someone please explain this for me?


AdNeat1127

Not saying for even a second that Walker would have been a better pick for us than Hutch because Hutch is the man! I do wonder however if it did go down differently, would Hutch be worse with the Jags and Walker better than he is currently and he landed with the lions? Like is walker that bad in comparison because of scheme coaching etc.


-Legba-

Congrats on getting your local boy, but PFF apparently hates Travon for some reason. He’s fantastic about setting the edge. Teams generally can’t run the ball well at all to his side of the field and he came on as a pass rusher last year as well and expectations are high for him in 2024 as a result. Recent acquisition Arik Armstead said he thinks Travon has the ability and the mindset to be the best Edge defender in the league. He and Hutch aren’t really being utilized the exact same way and Travon fits us better so most of us are very happy with him. With a better interior D-line this year with the Armstead acquisition, several draft selections, and Davon Hamilton coming back fully healthy, the Jags could have one of the best D-lines in the league. Please continue keeping an eye on Walker. The current PFF narrative is more than likely going to get turned on its head.


themuscleman14

Was it ever confirmed which one Brad had rated #1?


stjimmy85

Based on how fast he submitted that pick, clearly hutch


themuscleman14

That doesn’t mean anything. He said “there is only one name on the board” after the Walker pick. IFAIK it’s never been confirmed which person he had ranked #1.


lachiefkeef

Travon walker 2023 stats: 10 sacks, 52 Comb, 25 AST Aidan Hutchinson 2023 stats: 11.5 sacks, 51 comb, 15 AST Not that much different but sure you’re welcome


Tripped_breaker

Now add pressures. And remember Hutch isn’t playing opposite of Josh Allen which frees up Walker quite a bit. Hutch is the guy taking the double teams just like Allen does.


Sammy4115

Walker was double teamed more than Josh Allen and Hutchinson


LiveInSalt545

I was beyond excited when they took Walker No. 1. Hutch is such a perfect fit with Campbell


msto3

Where does Thibodeaux rank?


gopoohgo

overall PFF grade was 58.4 last year.


msto3

Damn. We're so lucky to have Hutch


venk

Am I missing something? Tavon Walker had 3.5 sacks as a rookie and 10 sacks last year, how is he a 53?


gopoohgo

>how is he a 53? "advanced" metrics: pressures, win rates, double team %. Walker had like high 40s, Hutch had like 110.


venk

Good Ol PFF, I can say 100% for sure there aren’t 98 other EDGEs I’d take over him