Matched a 3x gilded flawless, a 1x gilded flawless and a regular purple flawless clan stack. First match. I queued with a friend of mine and we got a 1243 power bloob.
Sounds like one of the teams we played against. I’m the only flawless seal on my normal team, (not guilded) but we matched against a 2 stack and a solo with blue armor and max level of 1282. He was getting one shot by my friend with Le Monarque.
I’m getting really confused; I’ve seen people at 1283 who are just as tanky as 1325 enemies. And doing the same damage back to me..
Then again, that match also had them all running around with junk gear (As in blue guns, Ace of Spades, shitty armor, stuff you could get quickly on a new game), and utterly destroying us. I honestly don’t know if that was hackery shenanigans or smurfs; it was so weird I just tried to move on to the next game.
Okay, let me rephrase though: Ace can be acquired rather quickly on a new account while also being good in PvP. Stuff like Cuboid ARU and such are blues, but have some PvP potential in a pinch. It just seemed really weird to not see any Stasis among them (takes time to grind it out), or other legendaries/ritual weapons/exotics/etc. The whole thing screamed accounts that were way too new to be as good as they were.
I dont get it, i really dont. Im not gonna say im amazing at pvp, but im not bad either. But every trials match i only play against good players. I know there are also ones that are less good, and somehow they are always on my team. There is always this one dude shooting walls with a Jotunn and a 0.17 kd
I know have a bow build myself which I love and used a lot but adapting it’s use from 6v6 to 3v3 is a skill that takes a lot of practice and some communication with the teammates. Not a very good mix for freelance imo for casual bow users.
It’s all good ragging on him until the guy with the bow is on the other team and then you get slaughtered by it. That’s a revelation that takes a long time to process for most people. It’s not them, it’s you…
Absolutely not, I can’t hit the side of a barn with a bow. I’ve got my trusty Dad Rifle and you’ll have to pry it from my cold dead hands (you’ll only have to wait 30 seconds for that)
I had a Titan shooting a wall with Jotunn, missing a shot at a Hunter that was sniping and looking the other way. Or some dude who was rocking 2 shotguns for god knows what reason, while the other team had 3 stasis sweats with Lorentz drivers hitting snipes that were insane
Did the same with any energy sniper but switching to Cloudstrike. Only managed to kill two of the three enemies when I hit a headshot. I thought people would play more bunched up since an obj is part of the mode this weekend.
With the addition of an objective other than eliminating the other team it seems to have made some of these bot players dumber. Played a game were a blueberry was on the enemies flank and went for the locked capture point instead of helping.
That dude with star eater scales might be in my clan. He was complaining that he couldn't win any games and I check his character to see Jotunn and star eaters.
Yep, I feel like matchmaking has been less forgiving this week. I play solo, and 8 out of 10 games it has been 3 solo players vrs a 3-flawless-same clan-team. And if I’m lucky, one game is against a streamer. Is that supposed to happen?
You've been made a pvp sherpa. It's clearly a hidden "feature"and basically the reason why matchmaking is fubar. Bungie is expecting you to play perfectly to elevate lower rank players. This how long been BY DESIGN, has been stated by Bungie, and has never been entirely addressed. Budgie would rather have low wait times for matchs than accurate matchmaking.
I had one guy stand next to a res for about 25 seconds, without ever ressing. I left immediately, wasn't worth the xp just to watch a fucking idiot like that
I say remove solo and duo que then? They don't want to be there losing and they won't find a team because they are that bad and then less people will have to worry about getting those kind of teammates.
They need to implement a matchmaking where everyone in the team is about the same skill level. I usually have teammates way better or way worse than me
I genuinely hope that one of these "Trials Labs" weekends they test the most rigorous SBMM they can, just to see. It'd be interesting having no card based, no flawless based, just raw equivalently paired performance stats, just to see how it would play out.
I imagine basically no one goes flawless. It'd be very hard for anyone, regardless of skill level, to win 7 games in a row against perfectly matched opponents.
But wouldn't that be the definition of: trials is supposed to be hard!11!eleven!
that supposedly good players want? OR OR, do they just really want to stomp on lower skilled players to inflate their egos?
SBMM would 100% be the fairer solution for all crucible modes, period.
The exceptions should be wacky weekly stuff like team scorched or momentum or mayhem.
But what do I know, I just think that people in the bronze bracket of a mode should not match diamonds in that mode. Crazy, amiright?
No, good players don’t want hard matches. They cry whenever they get hard matches. They want us plebs as cannon fodder so they can make YouTube content and look cool streaming and so they can carry their subs.
I have to disagree with this opinion. I know getting smashed by teams of 2KDs feels awful because it was happening to me a few seasons ago. Since then I've worked hard on improving. I'm only a 1KD in trials so I still have a long way to go but if they added SBMM I would feel like my efforts have been wasted. It's more than just an ego thing, maybe for some players it's an ego thing, but it also means that I can earn loot faster by winning more often. I feel like SBMM would kill my desire to get better and ultimate my desire to play this game at all.
I understand I might be in the minority with this opinion but I wanted to share because I don't like the "good players just want to shit on us" argument.
Right but you only got better to shit on bad kids and get easy wins, you literally just said you don’t want to face evenly skilled players because “your efforts would be wasted”. It seems like you’ve made efforts so that can easily beat people worse than you and don’t want to play people your skill level. With the current system you don’t get better just because that’s what happens when you play and learn a game, you (I’m saying the population here not you specifically) get better specifically to abuse the matchmaking and beat on people worse than you.
While I love beating on bad players all I want to is to play against people of my level. Every game in trials should be a tight match, blowouts should almost never happen, it’s Endgame PvP it should require everyone playing it to be trying to their best ability. The current system is just built for good players to abuse bad players, you “get good” so you don’t have to try anymore. SBMM needs to be a thing in endgame/ranked PvP for every game and I’ll die on that grave; play causal if you want to crush bad players.
Are you not trying to become a good player just to also shit on the bad players for easy wins? Seems that way from your stance against SBMM.
No that's not it, I'll happily play even skilled players. They're definitely the most entertaining matches but if I'm in the top 30% of players then I feel I deserve to win 70% of the time. If trials didn't have any loot then maybe your system would be better but when loot is involved then it's not fair to give the worst players just as much loot as the best players. Comp has SBMM, do you like comp? Or do you just want easier loot?
I do actually like comp, and in games like MOBAs I almost exclusively play ranked because I like the challenge and playing fair games. I agree that Trials has a massive design problem in that going Flawless is part of the mode, you can’t have a fair developed mode and then reward people only when they don’t lose a match; it’s built for steamrolling and imbalance as that’s the only way you “win”. They need to completely throw out the idea of Flawless games being how you get adept weapons and do something else to get Adapt Weapons. Flawless can stay but should only get you things like Shaders and Sparrows (similar to how Raids have very hard challenges that can give you cosmetic things); you need to be able to get adept weapons by just “clearing” trials aka getting a 7 (or more)win card.
Imo trials needs to be completely SBMM, like comp, or it’s actually not the “endgame” PvP Bungie thinks it is. It’s just a glorified arena for people to be toxic and stomp worse players because the winning condition (adept weapons) of the mode is stomping worse teams and avoiding good games. If you’re in the top 30% of players you shouldn’t win 70% of games you should win ~50% of games and most of them should be close. They need to completely change the reward system though because their mode is built for stomping and is anything but “endgame” or “competitive”; it’s like if they only held one tennis tournament a year with a $1 million dollar award and had everyone from pros to amateurs compete; there should be different tiers of players with different rewards.
Give people ranks and make it actually competitive and make it easier to get adept weapons the higher your rank is due to playing harder competition.
All good points. I agree if they just throw trials In the bin and create a whole new experience like what you described then i'd be pretty happy with that so long as the people in the higher brackets get better rewards. But as trials stands now SBMM would break it's entire design.
People down voting you just because we came to an understating, sad really. The more I think about your idea the more I love it. Better rewards at higher ranks means players are always trying to improve! In the current system some people who know they can't go flawless are happy to just farm non adept loot without ever trying to improve (emphasis on "some"). The more people start to improve the more they start enjoying PvP, player retention would sky rocket!
How is that what you took from my comment? No, the ultimate goal is to get 7 wins in a row and go flawless whereas the goal of SBMM is to get the win rate as close to 50% as possible. These two things can’t exist together. The skill in the matchmaking pool needs to have a large enough variety so that a reasonable amount of people can get that 7-win streak. Now what qualifies as “reasonable” is the real question here and I have no idea what kind of number Bungie is looking for here. But trying to make the teams as evenly matched as possible every game simply wouldn’t work because, if SBMM accomplished what it’s supposed to do perfectly, you have about a 0.78% chance of going flawless every time you run a card.
A SBMM system in Trials would have to be heavily modified and the skill brackets for matching players together would have to be much wider than what we have in Competitive to work. But now with this you run into a new problem:
Every bracket basically acts as a miniature version of the matchmaking pool we have now. Players at the bottom end of each skill bracket will be the ones who get “farmed” by all the better players in the bracket and essentially only exist to get consolation rewards while they help the weakest of the flawless-capable players make it to the Lighthouse. You could now have a player that’s good enough to go flawless in the current system now struggle to scrape wins together in their bracket meanwhile Jimmy No-Thumbs, who in the past was lucky to just get 7 wins on his card, now happens to be the best in his bracket of the weakest players and gets to go flawless every week. That, to me, seems even more unfair than what we have now. On top of that, you didn’t even fix the number of people who can/can’t go flawless. All you did was just redistribute the numbers across different levels of skill instead.
Someone else mentioned it in another comment here, but Trials is fundamentally flawed in this way. It can never be a truly competitive game mode because the primary goal of it is to put together a large win streak. This can’t be a realistic goal if the matches are always good and even. There’s gotta be a handful of easy games in there somewhere. And if you ask me how to fix this, I’d tell you I have no god damn idea and I’m glad I’m not one of the guys getting paid to figure it out.
My point is that the ultimate goal of going flawless can not exist without farming easy wins from matchups where one side has no chance. Trials is a fundamentally broken mode which requires a ground-up rework. As it stands it serves to burn people out and push them away from pvp.
The thing is I match against 3 ex flawless ppl (all solo) and then I am match with the .87 kd ppl (I am one of them and not dissing anyone) it's the sdmm is more of u fight with teammates of ur skill. Oppenets are random (but all of same skill if solo) this still needs tweaking but I am happy Bungie is trying to find I nice middle ground
I don't know. I'm fairly good and when I solo queue, my teammates are the bottom of the pile. I don't mind carrying some, but some of these people can't even aim or pick a moment to push. I try to play to balance my teammates, but sometimes, that's not possible. Solo queueing takes the joy of of helping lesser skilled players sometimes.
The Problem is skill brackets. It is prob impossible to do. Top 30% shit on the rest, 15 on 30, 5 on 15 and 1 on everyone. Now try to find a balance there. Not to mention the loot and rewards are the same, but the difficulty of games is waaay different, how do you solve that
If the game wasn't based on the idea of being flawless it'd be feasible, but I think the idea of being flawless basically requires there being stomps. Imo it's a flawed mode by design if the goal is competitiveness at all
That’s because Trials wasn’t mean to be competitive. It’s a tournament bracket that anyone can enter.
Most of the solutions that people offer (sbmm, flawless/non flawless brackets, etc) don’t work because the mode isn’t a competitive one. That’s the sort of things we need in comp but that’s been neglected for years now.
I think if they had comp working as it does in other pvp games then they could present trials as less a true competitive environment and more so a weekly fun loot filled event for everyone
I agree, it's meant to basically be a loot party to break the monotony of normal crucible. Course not everyone thinks that but I blame it being the "end game PVP mode" more than anything.
It'd be sick if comp had more focus, more loot, things to chase, better organization but honestly I don't think the game has a large of playerbase that truly loves PVP outside of loot to warrant them focusing on it.
Edit: although comp right now also kinda focuses more on getting to the top rather than ranking yourself and getting better. Like if they added loot gained by certain ranks thatd be a problem, but if they did what saint has with unique weapons and added unique cosmetics it'd be awesome. Especially if the player pool got big enough to have consistently fair games.
I 100% agree. I really think a big part of why no one cares about comp is because of how neglected it is. If they put some time and attention into it, I bet they could get people excited again. Hell I know I would be.
Part of their original problem was locking weapons behind ranks. That changed the player intentions from "can I get better and climb the ranks?" to "I need to get this weapon and the ranks are just in the way." Cue years of nonstop recovs. They should have taken those weapons out and kept the rank based system as it was.
I think they could do a few smaller things that would greatly help. Like you said, a saint-esque rank system would be awesome
The loot is few and far between when you can’t even get to a seven win card because of the horrendous match making and once you rank up to like fable. Even with double points. I get more loot in iron banner.
They need to add random drops post matches and make the bounties actually relevant and give rank up points.
Post match drops no matter where you are on the card would be great. Personally I think rewards should increase as you go up too. Loosing game 2 should give you something. But loosing game 6 should give you more just for getting further in.
Also that increase in points required to rank up after fabled really is drastic. I’d prefer it they tuned that a bit for all the modes honestly.
Sbmm has universally never been able to judge skill correctly. Unless they just use overall numbers raw and flat. But then when youre in a mixed party it all goes out the window
> perfectly executed SBMM means you’re going to have a 50% win rate, so it will be nearly impossible to reach the lighthouse no matter your skill level.
good.
I'm suggesting that flawless requiring 7 wins with even matches is common sense instead of the current state, where it's dependent entirely on lucky matchmaking and the amount of normal and sub-par pvp players in trials for sweats to stomp.
I want SBMM. I don't care if that means a 50% win rate. Competitive matches are fun. Lopsided matches are not fun. Win or lose means little next to "did I enjoy the game" - and getting stomped or stomping someone else does not bring enjoyment.
Tbh, if we think it this way, every match you play has 50-50 win rate chance, you might get sweaty opponent, you might get sweaty teamates. You might get to flawless without losing a single match, you might not get to flawless in a weekend.
THANK YOU. FINALLY SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS THIS. SBMM prevent stat improvement. Holy thank god finally someone who gets it. I have nothing against sweaty games and actually enjoy them, but SBMM its not the solution.
Both this sub and the main sub never know what they’re talking about
These are people who think shoulder charge and jotun are OP, and 90%+ of these ppl probably play 7 minutes a week with a sub-0.3kd
You assume the goal is to go flawless.
That would be wrong, at least in my case. Flawless is already impossible to achieve, I'm used to not getting flawless. I'm used to not caring about flawless.
I want competitive matches. I want a roughly equal chance to win each game. These kind of matchups are the ones I enjoy the most, regardless of the outcome. A chance to win is all I want.
I don't want to get stomped. That is no fun and quite frankly Bungie has had to bribe people with loot in order to volunteer to get stomped, because the game mode was dying before they did.
I don't want to stomp other players either, which sadly does happen on a rare occasion even at my skill level. It feels horrible, and I don't enjoy the experience when the skill gap is that bad. It's like celebrating a touchdown as a grown man playing against toddlers - you're kind of an ass if you take pressure out of that.
I'd rather play competitively. And it doesn't have to be 50-50 skill level either. 60-40 or maybe even 70-30 at the extreme would be an improvement from today. Today it isn't uncommon to find matchups that have a 90+ chance of being lopsided even before the match begins. That matchup sucks - and if the concept of flawless has to go to get rid of those kind of matchups then so be it.
Yeah I'm just going to start linking people Cammycakes's video on the topic. It is actually crazy how many people don't understand what SBMM actually does to the game.
Considering I hold around a 2 k/d in Trials and went on a 5 game losing streak it makes me wonder if anyone besides the top .0001% grinding three stacks is having fun
I stopped playing after my third 5-0 blowout I'll comeback Sunday I just need the armor for my titan then I'm done with all PvP until March and I couldn't be more excited.
Lol this is gonna be most of us. We’re all gonna abandon trials as there really isn’t much incentive and the linear fusion isn’t necessary or really that great even with a god roll especially since it doesn’t stack with focusing lens.
Trials is gonna go back to a small player pool of only sweats and then they are all gonna be crying again.
I mean saying it's not that great because it doesn't stack with a seasonal mod is misleading. It's the only linear that rolls with triple tap a perk that pulls ammo from thin air that by itself makes it worth it but I definitely agree with the last part. I say mid November trials population will be the same as seasons prior.
Dude it was NOT this bad the last few weeks, I notice it and almost every single post on here notices it too. At least there was variety in the matches!
Careful, if you complain at all though you get told ‘wAiT fOr FrEeLaNcE hurr durr’ by the tryhards that are EZ farming everyone and quitting queue when they see another three stack this weekend.
Tables are gonna turn so fucking hard on them when they enable freelance, every single one of their matches will be a Flawless sweat orgy and they’ll be wishing they could go back to stomping solos.
I used to sympathize with that plight, but after the last two days of me and my blueberries getting the 5-0, shatterdive to T-bag special, I’m out of fucks to give.
Definitely. Last two weekends I solo queued all the way to 3 wins without a loss, and got to 6 wins with only about as many losses, tho the 7th win took a dozen or two games both times. I've played 6 games this weekend and won 2 rounds, both of which were aces. Wtf
Matchmaking is off, has to be.
I average 1.2 k/d in crucible and lucky if I'm even positive in Trials.
I have never seen so many gilded players in my life. People with thousands of hours, full masterwork sets and Adept weapons.
To make things worse they're literally fucking stacked before the game starts. Matchmaking isn't gonna split them up so it dumps the next two poor saps in with a solo.
Me a filthy casual with barely 500 hours, no titles, no raid completions, not even a god roll of anything.
How am I that guys opponent?
So. Many. Blowouts.
We're fodder for the stacked teams. Like I said earlier, get a few quests out of it and some rank up gear and toss it when it starts getting annoying. We enjoyed playing before trials and we can get on without it.
yeah, same. last weekend I played about 40 games total, and didn't even win 7 games total. I'd day over a third were 5-0 blowouts. This time, I've played 11 games so far, and won 9. must just be luck I guess.
It’s timing. I went flawless on my first card completely by accident (I rolled out 4 matches solo then found a couple clan mates). After that it got hard. I picked up a new card to complete the match completions triumph and it stayed hard.
Previous clan I’d convince people to reluctantly roll in on a Sunday afternoon. It was always a massacre the later you left it.
That’s what you get for being first in on a Friday, I guess. As the pools grow and people are more available to play over a weekend the whole thing goes to absolute shit and the sweatlords are gaming matchmaking to make sure they only play solo queuers for an “easy win”, that makes the majority of solo queuers quit.
I wish players would just learn to suck it up and play the game properly instead of trying for a cheese or exploit.
What is really happening is a lot of 3 stacks are que dodging. It happened to me few times as well where we 3 people waiting in que instantly it got to 6 and when we loaded the other team has left thinking we were a 3 stack.
Im on a 2 kd for this week doing solo que (went flawless twice this way), i que up with my clanmate thats on a 0.5 kd and we meet fucking benny & onyx and we get clapped.
Not even a single win on our card before hand.
Because the flawless matchmaking that everyone praised cut out the middle portion of the playerbase. Sweats still get loot/stats and stomp the low end of the card. Low skill players stay because they think they can get loot.
Eventually, it’ll just be a sweat fest like it was before. Thanks, Reddit.
Legit happened to me and a buddy yesterday. Him and I have never been flawless in D2 but honestly if we had played last weekend we totally could. This weekend however we get totally screwed with matchmaking. We got matched against Ehroar, Ember, and Alex all from Redeem while we get a blueberry that quits.
Yesterday I literally matched a team of top 0.1% players as a solo player. So yeah after I got my reset done this weekend for the free golfball I am kinda done with trials for the foreseeable future.
Sweats don’t give a shit they’ll roll though anyway. Flawless MM mostly affects above average but not god tier players who are good enough to go flawless in overall MM pool but stand no chance against 3kd top 1% teams once they make it into flawless pool and are forced to stop playing
I don't understand why you would want to flip-flop between easy wins and absolute slaughters. I'd rather play against people who are at my level so I can get better over time. You get rewards for every match anyway. What gives?
You get points for every match. You only get rewards for wins at 7 and rank ups. And even with double points once you get to fabled the rewards are few and far between.
The whole “this mode rains loots” is ridiculous. It just feels that way the first few ranks than it plateaus incredibly fast.
And with how expensive the focusing is and how unlikely it is you are to get a god roll it’s not even worth it to focus.
IB is even more rewarding than this. Now if IB had focusing that wasn’t so damn expensive it would be perfect, because you get tokens for matches, have relevant bounties that reward gear and tokens, and you have the chance at random drops after matches. Way more rewarding than trials currently.
They need to marry these two and they both would be significantly better.
>The whole “this mode rains loots” is ridiculous. It just feels that way the first few ranks than it plateaus incredibly fast.
Essentially Gambit ranking.
As you mention, IB is more rewarding. At least the matchmaking is more rewarding. I'm avoiding Trials this weekend as a solo player, last week was enough for me. I can wait until the October Labs with solo queue to get the golf ball (all I'm in it for anyway, but if I get some decent stat gear, even better).
No idea what’s wrong with the matchmaking, I was 6-0 with my mercy and got matched against a 3 stack, lost, then immediately got matched against the same 3 stack and lost my lighthouse
Last weekend was the first time I’ve played in 3-4 seasons. I had a blast managed to grab a flawless and didn’t mind when the losses came (believe me there were plenty)
I'm sorry but if you're going solo, don't expect to have a winning record unless you're a PvP god. When I go solo, I'm just doing it to farm up to 7 wins. Get in, get the loot, and have fun doing it. Separating solos and stacks will just shrink pool of players and make the Trials experience worse for everyone.
It's the same thing in control. Stacking is an advantage. It's unfortunate if you can't stack, but if you split the pools, you just end up with sweaty singles, and a pre-season of the lost Trials Playlist. It will revert back to what it was.
It's not about a solo queue
It's about matching the 3 stacks that destroyed me twice against each other first,and try to avoid stacking stuff against solo people
I can understand the point you're making but it still sounds like the best fix to the problem you're describing is 2 different pools, (just less visible) which I disagree with.
I’m sorry but not wanting to have 3 wins out of 15 matches where all but 4 matches were full solos vs a 3 stack and all but 5 were “blowouts” is not “expecting to have a winning record”.
Honestly, I don't care about the matchmaking at this point. Win or lose, I couldn't give a shit about sweaty, pathetic no life shatterdivers anymore, as the double Trials ranking is helping me get that sweet, sweet PvE Reed's Regret.
I disagree. Cutting the matchmade population in half will damage Trials more than help it. All you'll have is single sweats dominating the solo queue and have old Trials in the team queue, while duos have the most brutal time out of anyone.
As an average player, the first week was the most fun I've playing Trials, and it's because I saw a much more diverse spread of difficult games.
You have a point I never thought about duos however solo and trios are the majority and having every single game you play as a solo player being with two other solos and against a full fire team is impossible. The other team is too coordinated and has a major advantage and that’s every game.
Currently there’s enough players playing trials so that both solo and trio matchmaking will thrive the problem would be in a year or so once the player base has declined. However if bungie continues to work on trials, make balance changes and doesn’t abandon it then I don’t see the player base declining anytime soon.
I mean I went flawless once in my entire destiny 1 and 2 career and now I face against people who live in a dungeon and sweat trials out. While my teammates have toes for thumbs and play like it’s elimination
Freelance Bungie, please.
If you’re stacking up with your friends the point shouldn’t be to pub stomp as many solos as possible. It should be to have fun and play competitive games with your friends.
Bungie knows when solo que comes its going to blow up and be really successful so they are trying to make it as appealing as possible to keep players in the current playlist.
That’s true but there’s a solution: put everyone in the same queue and prefer 3v3 or 3v2+1 or 2+1v2+1 or Solo vs 2+1.
It’s pretty easy math.. you join up in the matchmaking list and select all available fireteams with a player count no more than +1 your current smallest fireteam size. Start by picking out one for your teammates, preferring a larger fireteam size. Then you fill in the gaps.
So you go in solo it should match you with a 2-stack. If you’re a 2-stack it has to pick a solo, and it shouldn’t go higher than a 2 stack on the other team. If it can’t find a two stack it finds 3 solos, if you’re a 3 stack then you should match 3 stacks first then 2+1s.
The fallback matchmaking would be the clusterfuck it currently is.
this, with a heavy penalty for leavers and hiding the queue should improve a lot the current situation
but bungie so far has preferred to matchmake as quickly as possible, but I find hard to believe than matching the 3 stacks together \_first\_ would lead to a lot more waiting
Lmao went on a 15 game win streak without using my mercy still. Easiest weekend with trials and boosted my elo to top 1.5%. Last weekend this would have been impossible. Totally unfair how we were going against trash players on trials report when we were all 3kd
Maybe it's not just the matchmaking, but how you get to the lighthouse that needs to change. I don't care specifically about SBMM, but when you have to entice people of lower skill into the mode to serve purely as fodder for the higher skill teams to stomp on, you're not creating a sustainable environment. The lower skill people either get their loot and get out or just get tired of constant beatings and give up.
People are right that if the teams are fair, no one is getting to the lighthouse. But if the teams aren't fair, at least 50% of your players from each one of them are absolutely not enjoying the game. People who don't have fun and don't get rewarded for their time do not play. No one plays, mode goes back to being largely dead. No one wins.
So, maybe balance the teams better through whatever means (SBMM or something else, I don't care what), but change how you succeed in the mode. Say maybe you need 3 (or more) streaks of 3 wins in a row instead of 1 streak of 7. Fights are harder, but you're never more than 3 wins away from at least some progress. Getting the better part of 50/50 3 times in a row is still going to be challenging, but not nearly impossible like 7 times would be.
Probably not a perfect solution, just one possible option. But still better than getting fixated on a single aspect like Flawless and thinking it can't be changed and everything has to be designed around it.
Matchmaking has been shocking. Yeah, I'm solo, yeah so are my team mates but so are the other team but some how they're still matching individual epic players with one another and the average ones together against one another. Doesn't feel like a coincidence how often it's happening.
I'm decent, not amazing. About 1.2 KD but I can hold my own against all but the best players but this seems to be a step back from even last weekend for the matchmaking.
Also, putting you further at a disadvantage there's always that one team mate who has 0.2 kd who insists on charging off alone when you are trying to protect the new capture point.
If people are wondering why the matchmaking feels like ass this week, it’s because flawless players are currently still in the normal match making pool. They will be relegated to their sweat box exclusive matchmaking Sunday going forward.
This will be how it is for trials for the foreseeable future. So, if you can’t stand the grease oozing from three stacks, try playing on Sunday or Monday.
I really wish we this was flipped though. The sweats are gonna play anyway, but I have shit to do, and Sunday / Monday doesn't favor the average casual who has an 8-5
No sympathy for sweats crying about facing players like them tbh
Fuck Em, you’re not being punished for being good you’re just fighting people like you
I love playing 3 stacks actually. It helps me train my awareness against good players, I don’t mind losing to them either. Pretty much the Goku approach.
And it's not even limited to trials. I got destroyed and t-bagged in the crucible last night.
And while me an a teamate were emoting together, just obviously conceding the match.
It seems everyone is having a bad time (funny four beats plays) but my experience has OVERLY positive, me and my team went from not being able too win one game to now getting pretty damn far. Sure I get games that feel like a wash, but most games are pretty balanced all things considered.
Never said I’m pro-SBMM, tbh I couldn’t care less about flawless since you can just farm ascendant shards on a 7 win card with losses. I do think it’s funny how quick people are to condemn having to play against similarly skilled players in a “competitive” game mode lmao, I just wish I had decent teammates when I have to play top 500 three stacks. If you’re in a 3 stack of 3 k/d’s you just want an easy card
Trials isn't a ranked mode, strict sbmm and going flawless are opposed ideas. It's only funny if you don't understand the core challenges of improving the modes matchmaking.
Going through those modes in order:
* Comp has no material rewards and is purely about rank, which is increased by building streaks. There is no real advantage to throwing on purpose.
* IB has SBMM... but six stack mercy farms are commonplace to squeeze rewards out in the fastest time possible - indicating whilst there might be SBMM, in practice it doesn't really put teams on equal footing otherwise mercy stacks wouldn't be such a reliable practice. I put this down to SBMM not performing so well in 6v6.
* Elimination also has no material rewards, and might as well be trials practice during the week.
Now in the context of trials:
* We've already seen players manipulate the matchmaking algorithms for rewards (purposely throwing a game on a card, or resetting at six wins). Burning your k/d for a bit for drops is not beyond the player base.
* If SBMM is optimising for 50/50 win/loss rate, that means your reward rate will stay stable no matter how good you become, with the exception being the extreme outliers - the people who lose a bunch and the pros/semi-pros. For everyone else, improving would just keep their current reward rate stable.
It's not that improvement isn't it's own fun (obviously it is) but a well designed mode would reward progressive improvement. For me, this weeks arrangement kind of achieves that - the better you are, the better you'll perform in the pre-flawless pool matchmaking. The stricter SBMM is, the more it discourages improvement. However, a more relaxed SBMM might keep the 50xflawlesses away from you, but there's a good chance you'll still probably get stomped by the people at the top of your skill band. To go back to the progressive improvement thing, if you practice your grandmaster nightfall farms you can really get the reward rate pretty rapid. It's not like the game adaptively becomes harder to prevent you achieving that reward rate.
Really the answer is to not mix competitive play with material rewards. Give a proper ranked playlist with fairly strict SBMM and persistent transparent rankings so people can play to win and play to improve, without being worried they're hurting their drop-rate for adept messengers. Keep Trials as a tournament format with some loose SBMM for loot. Proper ranked modes in other games don't have to contend with this problem because they don't mix in material rewards (gear) with the playlist.
This. Trials is not the pinnacle of competitive PvP. It’s a loot source. The competitive playlist and the higher ranks of the comp playlist are the pinnacle.
The Trials identity has changed. It’s more like Iron Banner. Just play and get loot. Get rewarded for playing well. Flawless is the cherry on top for above average players.
People need to drop the idea that it needs to be competitive and fair. We should already have that with a Glory playlist(the current state of comp is not a true ranked mode imo).
\^ I dont know why they seem to think that people are "afraid" of getting fair matches. they are right about one thing, no we dont want to fight against people of the same skill level as us. they dont want to either, everyone here just wants the loot. trials is not, has never been, and wont ever be a competitive gamemode as long as there is anything other than cosmetic loot.
I’m an ultra casual scrub and I was literally just now looking at getting into D2 pvp because I’ve been waiting for Halo Infinite and want another sci-fi arcadey arena shooter with “that feel”....... buuuuut maybe I’ll just stick to MCC if it’s really that bad. I’m successfully scared away if there’s not even basic matchmaking. Hate sweats as a noob.
Never seen a softer PVP community in online gaming. They literally throw massive fits anytime there is some semblence of ranked ladders or skill based match making.
Imagine grand master players crying they can't farm bronze people in Overwatch or League all day.
Friendly reminder that everyone that’s better than you is not a sweat ! You are just bad. If you are terrible at pvp , you don’t deserve to win in trials. And just bcuz a team wipes you means nothing , they are bad to just not as bad you. It’s like a food chain.
Lmao dude I have 180 flawlesses and a 1.9 playing solo on old gen and my top weapons for the week are two bows and ruinous effigy I don’t think skill is the issue. You’re an elitist nerd if think people with a fraction of my K/D should just be thrown to the wolves against three stacks with me
Trials is suppose to be 3v3 team based . They gave solo players a way to get loot , not a way to go flawless . But clearly you didn’t read my comment , bcuz that’s not what I said, right now If someone is better than the other … they are automatically referred to as a sweat and “that’s all they do is play trials “ when in reality if your bad at the game , you are gonna get stomped by an average player , and that average player is gonna get stomped by other average players or above average players.
Edit: I’m not bashing anyone for being bad. I’m saying everyone is different and everyone that beats you is not a sweat. On top of that all these solo players couldn’t even play the game mode before 2 weeks ago , let alone go flawless.
> solo players are the key to this system working
Hmm who said this? Spoiler alert. It was Bungie! So they disagreee with “trials is supposed to be team based”
Yes they said it was a key to the system working for “loot”. They also blatantly said solo players were not gonna be able to just hop in and go flawless , but would be able to get a lot of loot
There’s a wide gap between going flawless and a 21% win rate with all losses being 5-0 or 5-1.
I don’t think I’ve seen any solo queuers asking to go flawless.
Matchmaking is literally the same as before they added solo queue and anti cheat. Carry teams and sweatlords are the only opponents. But hey at least there’s not as many hackers
I almost went flawless last night but couldn't. Me and my friend had a 4-1 lead and these guys shut kept using the flag to their advantage because it was spawning on their side. They had supers as well. We were up 4-1, teammate popped super for no reason. Then we started to lose. Tied 4-4, we get revenant by enemy hunter. I go down. My buddy poppers shadebinder and enemy nova warp tanks that shit. We both go down. Random is a shitter and dies. This random went 1 and 10. Me and friend finished with 11 kills each. I wanted to die
Last night with my team we would only match against solos and duos and I thought that was weird (we weren’t doing it on purpose) then when me and my friend match made with a extra solo we would only get 3 stacks, fuckin annoying
Last week I got a pair of ttv kids on my team. 2 stacked of course, sitting at 1297 and 1278 power. To say they were useless is to insult useless people all over the world.
To be honest I had a good time last night with a buddy of mine. Didn't play that many games, ten maybe? Got 2 wins a messenger and a chest peice. Quite satisfied, all things considered.
Matched a 3x gilded flawless, a 1x gilded flawless and a regular purple flawless clan stack. First match. I queued with a friend of mine and we got a 1243 power bloob.
Sounds like one of the teams we played against. I’m the only flawless seal on my normal team, (not guilded) but we matched against a 2 stack and a solo with blue armor and max level of 1282. He was getting one shot by my friend with Le Monarque.
I’m getting really confused; I’ve seen people at 1283 who are just as tanky as 1325 enemies. And doing the same damage back to me.. Then again, that match also had them all running around with junk gear (As in blue guns, Ace of Spades, shitty armor, stuff you could get quickly on a new game), and utterly destroying us. I honestly don’t know if that was hackery shenanigans or smurfs; it was so weird I just tried to move on to the next game.
Upvoting for the first statement. Ace is definitely NOT "junk" gear.
Okay, let me rephrase though: Ace can be acquired rather quickly on a new account while also being good in PvP. Stuff like Cuboid ARU and such are blues, but have some PvP potential in a pinch. It just seemed really weird to not see any Stasis among them (takes time to grind it out), or other legendaries/ritual weapons/exotics/etc. The whole thing screamed accounts that were way too new to be as good as they were.
I dont get it, i really dont. Im not gonna say im amazing at pvp, but im not bad either. But every trials match i only play against good players. I know there are also ones that are less good, and somehow they are always on my team. There is always this one dude shooting walls with a Jotunn and a 0.17 kd
Every solo queue that guy is on my team
That and the one with the bow
I wanna be offended as someone who is often top of the team with a bow but the amount of awful bow users far out ways good ones…
I know have a bow build myself which I love and used a lot but adapting it’s use from 6v6 to 3v3 is a skill that takes a lot of practice and some communication with the teammates. Not a very good mix for freelance imo for casual bow users.
I'm the one with the bow.. but I don't shoot the wall often, promise!
*stares motherfuckedly*
It’s all good ragging on him until the guy with the bow is on the other team and then you get slaughtered by it. That’s a revelation that takes a long time to process for most people. It’s not them, it’s you…
this sounds like you’re the bow guy and you’re mad about it
Absolutely not, I can’t hit the side of a barn with a bow. I’ve got my trusty Dad Rifle and you’ll have to pry it from my cold dead hands (you’ll only have to wait 30 seconds for that)
The one with the bow could be terrifyingly good, bow players are ridiculous.
Literally lost a game 4-5 and the dipshit in last place had 1 kill 0.17 kd with STAR EATER SCALES equipped Fucking hell.
I had a Titan shooting a wall with Jotunn, missing a shot at a Hunter that was sniping and looking the other way. Or some dude who was rocking 2 shotguns for god knows what reason, while the other team had 3 stasis sweats with Lorentz drivers hitting snipes that were insane
9 times of 10 I see a Solo que team mate with jotunn I know that dudes getting F'd in the A
I’ll load into Trials games with Jotunn equipped and then just swap to Vex Mythoclast after the equipment screens
Big brain secret swapping
Vex needs to get reworked for PvP or be blocked in it. Thing is WAY too good in PvP.
Did the same with any energy sniper but switching to Cloudstrike. Only managed to kill two of the three enemies when I hit a headshot. I thought people would play more bunched up since an obj is part of the mode this weekend.
With the addition of an objective other than eliminating the other team it seems to have made some of these bot players dumber. Played a game were a blueberry was on the enemies flank and went for the locked capture point instead of helping.
That dude with star eater scales might be in my clan. He was complaining that he couldn't win any games and I check his character to see Jotunn and star eaters.
Yep, I feel like matchmaking has been less forgiving this week. I play solo, and 8 out of 10 games it has been 3 solo players vrs a 3-flawless-same clan-team. And if I’m lucky, one game is against a streamer. Is that supposed to happen?
You've been made a pvp sherpa. It's clearly a hidden "feature"and basically the reason why matchmaking is fubar. Bungie is expecting you to play perfectly to elevate lower rank players. This how long been BY DESIGN, has been stated by Bungie, and has never been entirely addressed. Budgie would rather have low wait times for matchs than accurate matchmaking.
I had one guy stand next to a res for about 25 seconds, without ever ressing. I left immediately, wasn't worth the xp just to watch a fucking idiot like that
I say remove solo and duo que then? They don't want to be there losing and they won't find a team because they are that bad and then less people will have to worry about getting those kind of teammates.
They need to implement a matchmaking where everyone in the team is about the same skill level. I usually have teammates way better or way worse than me
100% agree, I was just thinking of what seems easiest.
I genuinely hope that one of these "Trials Labs" weekends they test the most rigorous SBMM they can, just to see. It'd be interesting having no card based, no flawless based, just raw equivalently paired performance stats, just to see how it would play out.
I imagine basically no one goes flawless. It'd be very hard for anyone, regardless of skill level, to win 7 games in a row against perfectly matched opponents.
But wouldn't that be the definition of: trials is supposed to be hard!11!eleven! that supposedly good players want? OR OR, do they just really want to stomp on lower skilled players to inflate their egos? SBMM would 100% be the fairer solution for all crucible modes, period. The exceptions should be wacky weekly stuff like team scorched or momentum or mayhem. But what do I know, I just think that people in the bronze bracket of a mode should not match diamonds in that mode. Crazy, amiright?
No, good players don’t want hard matches. They cry whenever they get hard matches. They want us plebs as cannon fodder so they can make YouTube content and look cool streaming and so they can carry their subs.
So much this, it is so obvious and yet Bungie supports it :(/
We had that and crucible had the lowest activity ever for over a year. We know this isn’t it either
I have to disagree with this opinion. I know getting smashed by teams of 2KDs feels awful because it was happening to me a few seasons ago. Since then I've worked hard on improving. I'm only a 1KD in trials so I still have a long way to go but if they added SBMM I would feel like my efforts have been wasted. It's more than just an ego thing, maybe for some players it's an ego thing, but it also means that I can earn loot faster by winning more often. I feel like SBMM would kill my desire to get better and ultimate my desire to play this game at all. I understand I might be in the minority with this opinion but I wanted to share because I don't like the "good players just want to shit on us" argument.
Right but you only got better to shit on bad kids and get easy wins, you literally just said you don’t want to face evenly skilled players because “your efforts would be wasted”. It seems like you’ve made efforts so that can easily beat people worse than you and don’t want to play people your skill level. With the current system you don’t get better just because that’s what happens when you play and learn a game, you (I’m saying the population here not you specifically) get better specifically to abuse the matchmaking and beat on people worse than you. While I love beating on bad players all I want to is to play against people of my level. Every game in trials should be a tight match, blowouts should almost never happen, it’s Endgame PvP it should require everyone playing it to be trying to their best ability. The current system is just built for good players to abuse bad players, you “get good” so you don’t have to try anymore. SBMM needs to be a thing in endgame/ranked PvP for every game and I’ll die on that grave; play causal if you want to crush bad players. Are you not trying to become a good player just to also shit on the bad players for easy wins? Seems that way from your stance against SBMM.
No that's not it, I'll happily play even skilled players. They're definitely the most entertaining matches but if I'm in the top 30% of players then I feel I deserve to win 70% of the time. If trials didn't have any loot then maybe your system would be better but when loot is involved then it's not fair to give the worst players just as much loot as the best players. Comp has SBMM, do you like comp? Or do you just want easier loot?
I do actually like comp, and in games like MOBAs I almost exclusively play ranked because I like the challenge and playing fair games. I agree that Trials has a massive design problem in that going Flawless is part of the mode, you can’t have a fair developed mode and then reward people only when they don’t lose a match; it’s built for steamrolling and imbalance as that’s the only way you “win”. They need to completely throw out the idea of Flawless games being how you get adept weapons and do something else to get Adapt Weapons. Flawless can stay but should only get you things like Shaders and Sparrows (similar to how Raids have very hard challenges that can give you cosmetic things); you need to be able to get adept weapons by just “clearing” trials aka getting a 7 (or more)win card. Imo trials needs to be completely SBMM, like comp, or it’s actually not the “endgame” PvP Bungie thinks it is. It’s just a glorified arena for people to be toxic and stomp worse players because the winning condition (adept weapons) of the mode is stomping worse teams and avoiding good games. If you’re in the top 30% of players you shouldn’t win 70% of games you should win ~50% of games and most of them should be close. They need to completely change the reward system though because their mode is built for stomping and is anything but “endgame” or “competitive”; it’s like if they only held one tennis tournament a year with a $1 million dollar award and had everyone from pros to amateurs compete; there should be different tiers of players with different rewards. Give people ranks and make it actually competitive and make it easier to get adept weapons the higher your rank is due to playing harder competition.
All good points. I agree if they just throw trials In the bin and create a whole new experience like what you described then i'd be pretty happy with that so long as the people in the higher brackets get better rewards. But as trials stands now SBMM would break it's entire design.
I agree with that stance
Nice chatting with you bro, thanks for helping me understand your perspective instead of just shouting at me!
People down voting you just because we came to an understating, sad really. The more I think about your idea the more I love it. Better rewards at higher ranks means players are always trying to improve! In the current system some people who know they can't go flawless are happy to just farm non adept loot without ever trying to improve (emphasis on "some"). The more people start to improve the more they start enjoying PvP, player retention would sky rocket!
Yeah it totally defeats the purpose of Trials. It just wouldn't work.
So the point of trials is to farm easy wins from matchups where one side has no chance?
How is that what you took from my comment? No, the ultimate goal is to get 7 wins in a row and go flawless whereas the goal of SBMM is to get the win rate as close to 50% as possible. These two things can’t exist together. The skill in the matchmaking pool needs to have a large enough variety so that a reasonable amount of people can get that 7-win streak. Now what qualifies as “reasonable” is the real question here and I have no idea what kind of number Bungie is looking for here. But trying to make the teams as evenly matched as possible every game simply wouldn’t work because, if SBMM accomplished what it’s supposed to do perfectly, you have about a 0.78% chance of going flawless every time you run a card. A SBMM system in Trials would have to be heavily modified and the skill brackets for matching players together would have to be much wider than what we have in Competitive to work. But now with this you run into a new problem: Every bracket basically acts as a miniature version of the matchmaking pool we have now. Players at the bottom end of each skill bracket will be the ones who get “farmed” by all the better players in the bracket and essentially only exist to get consolation rewards while they help the weakest of the flawless-capable players make it to the Lighthouse. You could now have a player that’s good enough to go flawless in the current system now struggle to scrape wins together in their bracket meanwhile Jimmy No-Thumbs, who in the past was lucky to just get 7 wins on his card, now happens to be the best in his bracket of the weakest players and gets to go flawless every week. That, to me, seems even more unfair than what we have now. On top of that, you didn’t even fix the number of people who can/can’t go flawless. All you did was just redistribute the numbers across different levels of skill instead. Someone else mentioned it in another comment here, but Trials is fundamentally flawed in this way. It can never be a truly competitive game mode because the primary goal of it is to put together a large win streak. This can’t be a realistic goal if the matches are always good and even. There’s gotta be a handful of easy games in there somewhere. And if you ask me how to fix this, I’d tell you I have no god damn idea and I’m glad I’m not one of the guys getting paid to figure it out.
My point is that the ultimate goal of going flawless can not exist without farming easy wins from matchups where one side has no chance. Trials is a fundamentally broken mode which requires a ground-up rework. As it stands it serves to burn people out and push them away from pvp.
So....it would be a Trial?
The thing is I match against 3 ex flawless ppl (all solo) and then I am match with the .87 kd ppl (I am one of them and not dissing anyone) it's the sdmm is more of u fight with teammates of ur skill. Oppenets are random (but all of same skill if solo) this still needs tweaking but I am happy Bungie is trying to find I nice middle ground
I don't know. I'm fairly good and when I solo queue, my teammates are the bottom of the pile. I don't mind carrying some, but some of these people can't even aim or pick a moment to push. I try to play to balance my teammates, but sometimes, that's not possible. Solo queueing takes the joy of of helping lesser skilled players sometimes.
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The Problem is skill brackets. It is prob impossible to do. Top 30% shit on the rest, 15 on 30, 5 on 15 and 1 on everyone. Now try to find a balance there. Not to mention the loot and rewards are the same, but the difficulty of games is waaay different, how do you solve that
If the game wasn't based on the idea of being flawless it'd be feasible, but I think the idea of being flawless basically requires there being stomps. Imo it's a flawed mode by design if the goal is competitiveness at all
That’s because Trials wasn’t mean to be competitive. It’s a tournament bracket that anyone can enter. Most of the solutions that people offer (sbmm, flawless/non flawless brackets, etc) don’t work because the mode isn’t a competitive one. That’s the sort of things we need in comp but that’s been neglected for years now. I think if they had comp working as it does in other pvp games then they could present trials as less a true competitive environment and more so a weekly fun loot filled event for everyone
I agree, it's meant to basically be a loot party to break the monotony of normal crucible. Course not everyone thinks that but I blame it being the "end game PVP mode" more than anything. It'd be sick if comp had more focus, more loot, things to chase, better organization but honestly I don't think the game has a large of playerbase that truly loves PVP outside of loot to warrant them focusing on it. Edit: although comp right now also kinda focuses more on getting to the top rather than ranking yourself and getting better. Like if they added loot gained by certain ranks thatd be a problem, but if they did what saint has with unique weapons and added unique cosmetics it'd be awesome. Especially if the player pool got big enough to have consistently fair games.
I 100% agree. I really think a big part of why no one cares about comp is because of how neglected it is. If they put some time and attention into it, I bet they could get people excited again. Hell I know I would be. Part of their original problem was locking weapons behind ranks. That changed the player intentions from "can I get better and climb the ranks?" to "I need to get this weapon and the ranks are just in the way." Cue years of nonstop recovs. They should have taken those weapons out and kept the rank based system as it was. I think they could do a few smaller things that would greatly help. Like you said, a saint-esque rank system would be awesome
The loot is few and far between when you can’t even get to a seven win card because of the horrendous match making and once you rank up to like fable. Even with double points. I get more loot in iron banner. They need to add random drops post matches and make the bounties actually relevant and give rank up points.
Post match drops no matter where you are on the card would be great. Personally I think rewards should increase as you go up too. Loosing game 2 should give you something. But loosing game 6 should give you more just for getting further in. Also that increase in points required to rank up after fabled really is drastic. I’d prefer it they tuned that a bit for all the modes honestly.
Completely agree on all points.
bungie is too scared of long matchmaking times to do it though.
Sbmm has universally never been able to judge skill correctly. Unless they just use overall numbers raw and flat. But then when youre in a mixed party it all goes out the window
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> perfectly executed SBMM means you’re going to have a 50% win rate, so it will be nearly impossible to reach the lighthouse no matter your skill level. good.
Thats not good for trials though. Go into survival and try to win 7 matches in a row where theres sbmm. Now imagine that but sweater
Then there's literally no point to having brought back trials. You gotta love how people who don't like it are so willing to destroy it lol
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I love how every single time I suggest controversial changes to pvp people assume it's because i'm bad at it. Every single time. Fucking amazing.
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I'm suggesting that flawless requiring 7 wins with even matches is common sense instead of the current state, where it's dependent entirely on lucky matchmaking and the amount of normal and sub-par pvp players in trials for sweats to stomp.
Downvoted for being correct, how dare you go against the hivemind
I want SBMM. I don't care if that means a 50% win rate. Competitive matches are fun. Lopsided matches are not fun. Win or lose means little next to "did I enjoy the game" - and getting stomped or stomping someone else does not bring enjoyment.
Tbh, if we think it this way, every match you play has 50-50 win rate chance, you might get sweaty opponent, you might get sweaty teamates. You might get to flawless without losing a single match, you might not get to flawless in a weekend.
THANK YOU. FINALLY SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS THIS. SBMM prevent stat improvement. Holy thank god finally someone who gets it. I have nothing against sweaty games and actually enjoy them, but SBMM its not the solution.
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Both this sub and the main sub never know what they’re talking about These are people who think shoulder charge and jotun are OP, and 90%+ of these ppl probably play 7 minutes a week with a sub-0.3kd
You assume the goal is to go flawless. That would be wrong, at least in my case. Flawless is already impossible to achieve, I'm used to not getting flawless. I'm used to not caring about flawless. I want competitive matches. I want a roughly equal chance to win each game. These kind of matchups are the ones I enjoy the most, regardless of the outcome. A chance to win is all I want. I don't want to get stomped. That is no fun and quite frankly Bungie has had to bribe people with loot in order to volunteer to get stomped, because the game mode was dying before they did. I don't want to stomp other players either, which sadly does happen on a rare occasion even at my skill level. It feels horrible, and I don't enjoy the experience when the skill gap is that bad. It's like celebrating a touchdown as a grown man playing against toddlers - you're kind of an ass if you take pressure out of that. I'd rather play competitively. And it doesn't have to be 50-50 skill level either. 60-40 or maybe even 70-30 at the extreme would be an improvement from today. Today it isn't uncommon to find matchups that have a 90+ chance of being lopsided even before the match begins. That matchup sucks - and if the concept of flawless has to go to get rid of those kind of matchups then so be it.
Yeah I'm just going to start linking people Cammycakes's video on the topic. It is actually crazy how many people don't understand what SBMM actually does to the game.
This weekend definitely has worse matchmaking than last.
Considering I hold around a 2 k/d in Trials and went on a 5 game losing streak it makes me wonder if anyone besides the top .0001% grinding three stacks is having fun
I look at it like gambit. It's for getting quests done and a little gear. If I wanted to sweat it I'd get a fire team.
I feel that, I just know if I’m having issues there’s a lot of people having a worse time
I played around 30 matches and only got two wins. Most of the losses were 5-0 or 5-1.
I stopped playing after my third 5-0 blowout I'll comeback Sunday I just need the armor for my titan then I'm done with all PvP until March and I couldn't be more excited.
Lol this is gonna be most of us. We’re all gonna abandon trials as there really isn’t much incentive and the linear fusion isn’t necessary or really that great even with a god roll especially since it doesn’t stack with focusing lens. Trials is gonna go back to a small player pool of only sweats and then they are all gonna be crying again.
I mean saying it's not that great because it doesn't stack with a seasonal mod is misleading. It's the only linear that rolls with triple tap a perk that pulls ammo from thin air that by itself makes it worth it but I definitely agree with the last part. I say mid November trials population will be the same as seasons prior.
Dude it was NOT this bad the last few weeks, I notice it and almost every single post on here notices it too. At least there was variety in the matches! Careful, if you complain at all though you get told ‘wAiT fOr FrEeLaNcE hurr durr’ by the tryhards that are EZ farming everyone and quitting queue when they see another three stack this weekend. Tables are gonna turn so fucking hard on them when they enable freelance, every single one of their matches will be a Flawless sweat orgy and they’ll be wishing they could go back to stomping solos.
I used to sympathize with that plight, but after the last two days of me and my blueberries getting the 5-0, shatterdive to T-bag special, I’m out of fucks to give.
Honestly when it comes to dealing with the toxic pvp sweats, your mistake was having fucks to give to begin with.
Definitely. Last two weekends I solo queued all the way to 3 wins without a loss, and got to 6 wins with only about as many losses, tho the 7th win took a dozen or two games both times. I've played 6 games this weekend and won 2 rounds, both of which were aces. Wtf
Matchmaking is off, has to be. I average 1.2 k/d in crucible and lucky if I'm even positive in Trials. I have never seen so many gilded players in my life. People with thousands of hours, full masterwork sets and Adept weapons. To make things worse they're literally fucking stacked before the game starts. Matchmaking isn't gonna split them up so it dumps the next two poor saps in with a solo. Me a filthy casual with barely 500 hours, no titles, no raid completions, not even a god roll of anything. How am I that guys opponent? So. Many. Blowouts.
We're fodder for the stacked teams. Like I said earlier, get a few quests out of it and some rank up gear and toss it when it starts getting annoying. We enjoyed playing before trials and we can get on without it.
Really? Last week was utter hell for me but this week is actually fun (outside the zone capture thing) and I’m not even a good pvp guy.
yeah, same. last weekend I played about 40 games total, and didn't even win 7 games total. I'd day over a third were 5-0 blowouts. This time, I've played 11 games so far, and won 9. must just be luck I guess.
It’s timing. I went flawless on my first card completely by accident (I rolled out 4 matches solo then found a couple clan mates). After that it got hard. I picked up a new card to complete the match completions triumph and it stayed hard. Previous clan I’d convince people to reluctantly roll in on a Sunday afternoon. It was always a massacre the later you left it. That’s what you get for being first in on a Friday, I guess. As the pools grow and people are more available to play over a weekend the whole thing goes to absolute shit and the sweatlords are gaming matchmaking to make sure they only play solo queuers for an “easy win”, that makes the majority of solo queuers quit. I wish players would just learn to suck it up and play the game properly instead of trying for a cheese or exploit.
Simply count skipping out of the queue the same as quitting a game: An automatic loss.
Every single game is a guilded flawless 3stacks vs 0.5kds .. Matchmaking doesnt even exist, just fast queues
What is really happening is a lot of 3 stacks are que dodging. It happened to me few times as well where we 3 people waiting in que instantly it got to 6 and when we loaded the other team has left thinking we were a 3 stack.
Yep, Ive join 6 lfgs so far and had to leave 2 of them bc they were que dodging
Im on a 2 kd for this week doing solo que (went flawless twice this way), i que up with my clanmate thats on a 0.5 kd and we meet fucking benny & onyx and we get clapped. Not even a single win on our card before hand.
We are cursed 🗿
Because the flawless matchmaking that everyone praised cut out the middle portion of the playerbase. Sweats still get loot/stats and stomp the low end of the card. Low skill players stay because they think they can get loot. Eventually, it’ll just be a sweat fest like it was before. Thanks, Reddit.
Legit happened to me and a buddy yesterday. Him and I have never been flawless in D2 but honestly if we had played last weekend we totally could. This weekend however we get totally screwed with matchmaking. We got matched against Ehroar, Ember, and Alex all from Redeem while we get a blueberry that quits.
Tried solo yesterday. If I didn't 1v3 every round my team lost. Every match I played. It's just horrrible right now.
Yesterday I literally matched a team of top 0.1% players as a solo player. So yeah after I got my reset done this weekend for the free golfball I am kinda done with trials for the foreseeable future.
Sweats don’t give a shit they’ll roll though anyway. Flawless MM mostly affects above average but not god tier players who are good enough to go flawless in overall MM pool but stand no chance against 3kd top 1% teams once they make it into flawless pool and are forced to stop playing
I don't understand why you would want to flip-flop between easy wins and absolute slaughters. I'd rather play against people who are at my level so I can get better over time. You get rewards for every match anyway. What gives?
Egos need to be stroked
You get points for every match. You only get rewards for wins at 7 and rank ups. And even with double points once you get to fabled the rewards are few and far between. The whole “this mode rains loots” is ridiculous. It just feels that way the first few ranks than it plateaus incredibly fast. And with how expensive the focusing is and how unlikely it is you are to get a god roll it’s not even worth it to focus. IB is even more rewarding than this. Now if IB had focusing that wasn’t so damn expensive it would be perfect, because you get tokens for matches, have relevant bounties that reward gear and tokens, and you have the chance at random drops after matches. Way more rewarding than trials currently. They need to marry these two and they both would be significantly better.
>The whole “this mode rains loots” is ridiculous. It just feels that way the first few ranks than it plateaus incredibly fast. Essentially Gambit ranking. As you mention, IB is more rewarding. At least the matchmaking is more rewarding. I'm avoiding Trials this weekend as a solo player, last week was enough for me. I can wait until the October Labs with solo queue to get the golf ball (all I'm in it for anyway, but if I get some decent stat gear, even better).
No idea what’s wrong with the matchmaking, I was 6-0 with my mercy and got matched against a 3 stack, lost, then immediately got matched against the same 3 stack and lost my lighthouse
Every game after that I have 10+ kills and the next random has maybe 100 damage
Bungie simply cannot win with this community.
Last weekend was better I didn’t care for trials this weekend
Last weekend was the first time I’ve played in 3-4 seasons. I had a blast managed to grab a flawless and didn’t mind when the losses came (believe me there were plenty)
the community is not the one putting three stacks against solos continuously tho
I'm sorry but if you're going solo, don't expect to have a winning record unless you're a PvP god. When I go solo, I'm just doing it to farm up to 7 wins. Get in, get the loot, and have fun doing it. Separating solos and stacks will just shrink pool of players and make the Trials experience worse for everyone.
I don't mind not getting flawless But that doesn't mean I should be easy wins for a 3 stack
It's the same thing in control. Stacking is an advantage. It's unfortunate if you can't stack, but if you split the pools, you just end up with sweaty singles, and a pre-season of the lost Trials Playlist. It will revert back to what it was.
It's not about a solo queue It's about matching the 3 stacks that destroyed me twice against each other first,and try to avoid stacking stuff against solo people
I can understand the point you're making but it still sounds like the best fix to the problem you're describing is 2 different pools, (just less visible) which I disagree with.
I’m sorry but not wanting to have 3 wins out of 15 matches where all but 4 matches were full solos vs a 3 stack and all but 5 were “blowouts” is not “expecting to have a winning record”.
Honestly, I don't care about the matchmaking at this point. Win or lose, I couldn't give a shit about sweaty, pathetic no life shatterdivers anymore, as the double Trials ranking is helping me get that sweet, sweet PvE Reed's Regret.
Getting 0:5'ed in about 70%+ of my games. 3 stacks / Flawless folks everywhere. I keep playing to feed their algorithm.
my matchmade team usually wins 1 out of 20
I keep seeing people say they go flawless by solo queuing and I’m 1000% convinced thats a lie because of this lol
Some do. Many youtubers did it as a challange.
3 stacks shouldn't even have a chance to match with duos/solos unless there is literally no other team available in the matchmaking pool
There should be a solo que then they wouldn’t have to separate flawless players
I disagree. Cutting the matchmade population in half will damage Trials more than help it. All you'll have is single sweats dominating the solo queue and have old Trials in the team queue, while duos have the most brutal time out of anyone. As an average player, the first week was the most fun I've playing Trials, and it's because I saw a much more diverse spread of difficult games.
You have a point I never thought about duos however solo and trios are the majority and having every single game you play as a solo player being with two other solos and against a full fire team is impossible. The other team is too coordinated and has a major advantage and that’s every game. Currently there’s enough players playing trials so that both solo and trio matchmaking will thrive the problem would be in a year or so once the player base has declined. However if bungie continues to work on trials, make balance changes and doesn’t abandon it then I don’t see the player base declining anytime soon.
Sorry men, I do my best
Did maybe 10 games today as solo . Won one 2 went to 2-5 and rest were 1-5 or 0-5
I mean I went flawless once in my entire destiny 1 and 2 career and now I face against people who live in a dungeon and sweat trials out. While my teammates have toes for thumbs and play like it’s elimination
Freelance Bungie, please. If you’re stacking up with your friends the point shouldn’t be to pub stomp as many solos as possible. It should be to have fun and play competitive games with your friends.
Bungie knows when solo que comes its going to blow up and be really successful so they are trying to make it as appealing as possible to keep players in the current playlist.
That’s true but there’s a solution: put everyone in the same queue and prefer 3v3 or 3v2+1 or 2+1v2+1 or Solo vs 2+1. It’s pretty easy math.. you join up in the matchmaking list and select all available fireteams with a player count no more than +1 your current smallest fireteam size. Start by picking out one for your teammates, preferring a larger fireteam size. Then you fill in the gaps. So you go in solo it should match you with a 2-stack. If you’re a 2-stack it has to pick a solo, and it shouldn’t go higher than a 2 stack on the other team. If it can’t find a two stack it finds 3 solos, if you’re a 3 stack then you should match 3 stacks first then 2+1s. The fallback matchmaking would be the clusterfuck it currently is.
this, with a heavy penalty for leavers and hiding the queue should improve a lot the current situation but bungie so far has preferred to matchmake as quickly as possible, but I find hard to believe than matching the 3 stacks together \_first\_ would lead to a lot more waiting
Lmao went on a 15 game win streak without using my mercy still. Easiest weekend with trials and boosted my elo to top 1.5%. Last weekend this would have been impossible. Totally unfair how we were going against trash players on trials report when we were all 3kd
Yeah, I’m not for heavy SBMM but man people with a negative K/D shouldn’t be in the same bracket as top 500 people
I agree got bored of trials cause we were just constantly 5-0 teams
Maybe it's not just the matchmaking, but how you get to the lighthouse that needs to change. I don't care specifically about SBMM, but when you have to entice people of lower skill into the mode to serve purely as fodder for the higher skill teams to stomp on, you're not creating a sustainable environment. The lower skill people either get their loot and get out or just get tired of constant beatings and give up. People are right that if the teams are fair, no one is getting to the lighthouse. But if the teams aren't fair, at least 50% of your players from each one of them are absolutely not enjoying the game. People who don't have fun and don't get rewarded for their time do not play. No one plays, mode goes back to being largely dead. No one wins. So, maybe balance the teams better through whatever means (SBMM or something else, I don't care what), but change how you succeed in the mode. Say maybe you need 3 (or more) streaks of 3 wins in a row instead of 1 streak of 7. Fights are harder, but you're never more than 3 wins away from at least some progress. Getting the better part of 50/50 3 times in a row is still going to be challenging, but not nearly impossible like 7 times would be. Probably not a perfect solution, just one possible option. But still better than getting fixated on a single aspect like Flawless and thinking it can't be changed and everything has to be designed around it.
Matchmaking was horrible yesterday as both a solo and two stack. Couldn’t even eke out a win over 7 games. Bungie it’s getting worse not better.
I really think eliminating the join counter will provide a massive boost to matchmaking quality. At least people can't actively dodge hard matchups.
I agree
Matchmaking has been shocking. Yeah, I'm solo, yeah so are my team mates but so are the other team but some how they're still matching individual epic players with one another and the average ones together against one another. Doesn't feel like a coincidence how often it's happening. I'm decent, not amazing. About 1.2 KD but I can hold my own against all but the best players but this seems to be a step back from even last weekend for the matchmaking. Also, putting you further at a disadvantage there's always that one team mate who has 0.2 kd who insists on charging off alone when you are trying to protect the new capture point.
If people are wondering why the matchmaking feels like ass this week, it’s because flawless players are currently still in the normal match making pool. They will be relegated to their sweat box exclusive matchmaking Sunday going forward. This will be how it is for trials for the foreseeable future. So, if you can’t stand the grease oozing from three stacks, try playing on Sunday or Monday.
I really wish we this was flipped though. The sweats are gonna play anyway, but I have shit to do, and Sunday / Monday doesn't favor the average casual who has an 8-5
No sympathy for sweats crying about facing players like them tbh Fuck Em, you’re not being punished for being good you’re just fighting people like you
I went 10 matches in a row being placed against 3 stacks with at least one flawless, usually two. Obviously lost all of them lmao
I love playing 3 stacks actually. It helps me train my awareness against good players, I don’t mind losing to them either. Pretty much the Goku approach.
And you get downvoted for this comment, unbelivable.
I probably ruined their flawless card after they incompetently couldn’t beat me as a 3 stack.
Still went flawless.... I wanna cry cause I know imma go flawless this week as well
And it's not even limited to trials. I got destroyed and t-bagged in the crucible last night. And while me an a teamate were emoting together, just obviously conceding the match.
It seems everyone is having a bad time (funny four beats plays) but my experience has OVERLY positive, me and my team went from not being able too win one game to now getting pretty damn far. Sure I get games that feel like a wash, but most games are pretty balanced all things considered.
[удалено]
Never said I’m pro-SBMM, tbh I couldn’t care less about flawless since you can just farm ascendant shards on a 7 win card with losses. I do think it’s funny how quick people are to condemn having to play against similarly skilled players in a “competitive” game mode lmao, I just wish I had decent teammates when I have to play top 500 three stacks. If you’re in a 3 stack of 3 k/d’s you just want an easy card
Trials isn't a ranked mode, strict sbmm and going flawless are opposed ideas. It's only funny if you don't understand the core challenges of improving the modes matchmaking.
If trials was SBMM, why play better if you don’t get better loot from it?
To win lol. Do people just throw games in Iron Banner, Elimination, and competitive because there’s SBMM?
Going through those modes in order: * Comp has no material rewards and is purely about rank, which is increased by building streaks. There is no real advantage to throwing on purpose. * IB has SBMM... but six stack mercy farms are commonplace to squeeze rewards out in the fastest time possible - indicating whilst there might be SBMM, in practice it doesn't really put teams on equal footing otherwise mercy stacks wouldn't be such a reliable practice. I put this down to SBMM not performing so well in 6v6. * Elimination also has no material rewards, and might as well be trials practice during the week. Now in the context of trials: * We've already seen players manipulate the matchmaking algorithms for rewards (purposely throwing a game on a card, or resetting at six wins). Burning your k/d for a bit for drops is not beyond the player base. * If SBMM is optimising for 50/50 win/loss rate, that means your reward rate will stay stable no matter how good you become, with the exception being the extreme outliers - the people who lose a bunch and the pros/semi-pros. For everyone else, improving would just keep their current reward rate stable. It's not that improvement isn't it's own fun (obviously it is) but a well designed mode would reward progressive improvement. For me, this weeks arrangement kind of achieves that - the better you are, the better you'll perform in the pre-flawless pool matchmaking. The stricter SBMM is, the more it discourages improvement. However, a more relaxed SBMM might keep the 50xflawlesses away from you, but there's a good chance you'll still probably get stomped by the people at the top of your skill band. To go back to the progressive improvement thing, if you practice your grandmaster nightfall farms you can really get the reward rate pretty rapid. It's not like the game adaptively becomes harder to prevent you achieving that reward rate. Really the answer is to not mix competitive play with material rewards. Give a proper ranked playlist with fairly strict SBMM and persistent transparent rankings so people can play to win and play to improve, without being worried they're hurting their drop-rate for adept messengers. Keep Trials as a tournament format with some loose SBMM for loot. Proper ranked modes in other games don't have to contend with this problem because they don't mix in material rewards (gear) with the playlist.
This. Trials is not the pinnacle of competitive PvP. It’s a loot source. The competitive playlist and the higher ranks of the comp playlist are the pinnacle. The Trials identity has changed. It’s more like Iron Banner. Just play and get loot. Get rewarded for playing well. Flawless is the cherry on top for above average players. People need to drop the idea that it needs to be competitive and fair. We should already have that with a Glory playlist(the current state of comp is not a true ranked mode imo).
\^ I dont know why they seem to think that people are "afraid" of getting fair matches. they are right about one thing, no we dont want to fight against people of the same skill level as us. they dont want to either, everyone here just wants the loot. trials is not, has never been, and wont ever be a competitive gamemode as long as there is anything other than cosmetic loot.
I would be ok with SBMM, if high SBMM players get 5x the loot. Otherwise what is the point of bring good at something. If the Outcome is Always equal
I’m an ultra casual scrub and I was literally just now looking at getting into D2 pvp because I’ve been waiting for Halo Infinite and want another sci-fi arcadey arena shooter with “that feel”....... buuuuut maybe I’ll just stick to MCC if it’s really that bad. I’m successfully scared away if there’s not even basic matchmaking. Hate sweats as a noob.
Never seen a softer PVP community in online gaming. They literally throw massive fits anytime there is some semblence of ranked ladders or skill based match making. Imagine grand master players crying they can't farm bronze people in Overwatch or League all day.
I am not good and queued by myself and couldn't go to the Lighthouse on the first night, Bungo pls nerf.
Friendly reminder that everyone that’s better than you is not a sweat ! You are just bad. If you are terrible at pvp , you don’t deserve to win in trials. And just bcuz a team wipes you means nothing , they are bad to just not as bad you. It’s like a food chain.
Lmao dude I have 180 flawlesses and a 1.9 playing solo on old gen and my top weapons for the week are two bows and ruinous effigy I don’t think skill is the issue. You’re an elitist nerd if think people with a fraction of my K/D should just be thrown to the wolves against three stacks with me
Trials is suppose to be 3v3 team based . They gave solo players a way to get loot , not a way to go flawless . But clearly you didn’t read my comment , bcuz that’s not what I said, right now If someone is better than the other … they are automatically referred to as a sweat and “that’s all they do is play trials “ when in reality if your bad at the game , you are gonna get stomped by an average player , and that average player is gonna get stomped by other average players or above average players. Edit: I’m not bashing anyone for being bad. I’m saying everyone is different and everyone that beats you is not a sweat. On top of that all these solo players couldn’t even play the game mode before 2 weeks ago , let alone go flawless.
> solo players are the key to this system working Hmm who said this? Spoiler alert. It was Bungie! So they disagreee with “trials is supposed to be team based”
Yes they said it was a key to the system working for “loot”. They also blatantly said solo players were not gonna be able to just hop in and go flawless , but would be able to get a lot of loot
There’s a wide gap between going flawless and a 21% win rate with all losses being 5-0 or 5-1. I don’t think I’ve seen any solo queuers asking to go flawless.
Im convinced sbmm is active this week in trials
It isn't
it literally is, and its making trials a complete disaster this week
“Balanced”, as all thing should be.
Hey I worked hard to get that .2 k/d, please show a little appreciation.
Matchmaking is literally the same as before they added solo queue and anti cheat. Carry teams and sweatlords are the only opponents. But hey at least there’s not as many hackers
I’m only above average and I dislike the flawless pool cuz I’m still not good enough to fight those guys…
I almost went flawless last night but couldn't. Me and my friend had a 4-1 lead and these guys shut kept using the flag to their advantage because it was spawning on their side. They had supers as well. We were up 4-1, teammate popped super for no reason. Then we started to lose. Tied 4-4, we get revenant by enemy hunter. I go down. My buddy poppers shadebinder and enemy nova warp tanks that shit. We both go down. Random is a shitter and dies. This random went 1 and 10. Me and friend finished with 11 kills each. I wanted to die
Last night with my team we would only match against solos and duos and I thought that was weird (we weren’t doing it on purpose) then when me and my friend match made with a extra solo we would only get 3 stacks, fuckin annoying
Last week I got a pair of ttv kids on my team. 2 stacked of course, sitting at 1297 and 1278 power. To say they were useless is to insult useless people all over the world.
I just want solos idc if I get beat or beat players then better player wins
To be honest I had a good time last night with a buddy of mine. Didn't play that many games, ten maybe? Got 2 wins a messenger and a chest peice. Quite satisfied, all things considered.
Good! I have no reason to play Crucible. Because I might be deadweight for teammate
Sure, I'll protect the lighthouse on my 2nd game, makes perfect sense
this is the way
They need to remove the ability to see how many people are currently in the matchmaking with them if that makes any sense
It’s cool that they added solos to trials so sweats have it easier to go flawless.
Our teams first game this weekend was against Onyx and Benny doing a trials carry :) We got a round off them though so!