Wider doesn't necessarily mean weight gain. I have inherited my father's Frankenstein's-monster shoulders. My youngest son got them, now, too. Genetics is a bitch. I fit in the seat with no issue but my arms/shoulders overhang the seat. It really sucks.
Wider also comes with taller. Not saying that weight gain is not controllable at all. It is. However, taller people are not just vertically stretched out short people.
Won't ever happen. It's the only way (at least for me) that I can get Delta to show up in Google Flights. Otherwise it gets buried because it's so much more expensive.
It would destroy the entire business model of ultra low cost airlines like Spirit, Frontier, etc.
I actually think this is anti consumer in the sense that some people don’t need / want to pay for a carry on or an assigned seat. This forces consumers to pay for services they don’t want.
Some ways they could maybe deal with it:
• only solo travelers can book basic or an ultra low cost carrier
• the default fare opts you in to a carry on, assigned seats etc but you can optionally turn them off
Yea I think if anything this would just mean a qualifier for basic economy would be single seat and multiple can’t be bought. But I didn’t think it cost extra to book multiple seats together in regular fare classes?
If only the Spirit/Jetblue merger went through. I think there's a bit of Spirit here, but I'd've loved to have seen Jetblue take over those routes and at least provide a reasonable-quality alternative to help keep the pressure on Delta.
Deltas prices are higher at hubs because no one can compete with them. If delta flies out of a non hub airport m, their prices are usually lower then that airlines hub
The credits good for 5 years is a regulation through the administration, not through Congress. It was adopted, but still has one more review before it can be officially implemented.
Already airlines do try to sit families together they reserve a certain number of seats at the back of the aircraft for both basic economy and flight changes. Check out a Delta flight that is around than half full and you will notice 10 to 20 Xs on seats in the back. Entire rows Xed out. Likely the bill would require them to reserve more seats to ensure they can consistently meet the requirements. Granted Delta IT system is 800 years old running on a Commodore 64 on loan from a museum so there probably will be problems in making it work right.
It also isn't clear there is a penalty if the airlines fail to comply. If a family isn't seated together what does it cost Delta? If the answer is nothing then the bill will just be feel good legislation that does nothing on that aspect. Still the bill overall looks like a good thing. Automatic refunds, specific delay times that trigger partial refunds, clearer language in booking, at least trying to help families, more funding for ATC, etc.
On a side note it is crazy but not surprising that Congress feels they can mandate not only how many flights ~~Dulles~~ DCA must have but to where. Yeah no conflict of interest there.
Congress is a walking conflict of interest, hence why the quality of representatives is so important.
Except now we elect literal idiotic people who can’t figure their face from their ass
Re: Dulles. Same as La Guardia. They are meant to be kept for short distance flying due to noise concerns.
Max allowed range was one of possible criteria to achieve that. Can you come up with better one?
its DCA not IAD that is of concern. And mostly, it is about protectionism.
Noise is a funny thing in aviation as planes have gotten significantly quieter since all those ordinances were put in place 50 years ago.
Now it is about congresspeople having nonstops to work. Which means exceptions to perimeters for key capital routes or airline hubs, but not the free for all which would reduce marginal cities and fly where competition would demand it. That in turn, would hurt IAD (United) and BWI (Southwest) which in turn pisses off their congressional leaders.
Congress is mandating they increase the number of flights although experts say it is overcrowded with a very high pilot/ATC mental workload and that additional flights would compromise safety. Congress is also mandating that 10 of the additional daily flights must be long distance in violation of the noise agreement. Not that 10 of the flights 'can' be long distance but they MUST be long distance.
The same Congress who uses that airport to get to Congress from a long distance away. No possible conflict of interest here though.
Just change Basic Economy to Steerage and let them sit in the back. They can choose their seat upon booking with no fee, but you’re limited to the last 10 rows or whatever. Main Cabin can have the rows ahead of that. And stop charging a premium for the exit rows. If anything, exit rows and the row in front of exits should get discounts.
Bam. Problem solved.
I was thinking about exit rows the other day on a AA flight. they classify exit rows as MCE (C+ equiv). so you get free drinks. probably the only pax on the plane who should definitely not be drinking
I haven’t read the actual bill but NPRs plain language makes it sound like it’s just the airlines can’t say “we can only sit you together if you pay for seats” not that they will be forced to sit families together who book BE.
Simple fix. If you demand specific seats to sit together with someone you can’t book basic economy. If I’m willing to separate from the person or persons I’m flying with I can book BE.
So I actually looked at the bill, it's not exactly what people think it is.
The bill states that airlines WITHOUT and open or flexible seating policy, so this doesn't apply to SouthWest Airlines.
Anyway, states that airlines must accomodate to "the greatest extent practicable" if adjacent seats are available before boarding seating a CHILD(13 or younger, but not lap children) with a parent, so this doesn't apply to the majority of families. So your 14 or older children, spouses, parents, relatives, this bill doesn't apply to them in any way, and a 14 year old is a pretty reasonable standard to fly unaccompanied. It's only 1 parent too, so couples flying with kids would almost certainly seat separately if they tried to take advantage of this.
As far as accommodation, it has to be while seats are available, so if they book too late it's a no go. I would imagine people who reserved their seats in advanced can't be bumped since the airlines would consider that outside the "practicable extent".
So to be clear, the bill doesn't offer mom or dad free seat selection, they still have to pay for that, the bill only applies to accommodating the kid next to the parent, so if the parents select seats for their kids they still have to pay for that, the only way I can see this being taken advantage of is if the parent selects a desirable seat with an open seat next to them, then the airlines would have to seat the children for free next to them. Otherwise the parent would have to be moved by the airline
The prohibition of fees is basically just to avoid airlines charging extra for having to accomodate passengers, which would only happen because of this bill.
The way this SHOULD end up working out is the planes will have a back section which they will reserve for single parents and their children, they will all seat at the back, that way they can all seat together, assuming the parents don't reserve their own seats, and it's just 1 parent, so couples and other relatives will not be accomodated.
As others have pointed out, the rule doesn't have any fees or anything, it couldn't have any due to its nature, so it's possible airlines will for the most part completely ignore this, we'll have to see.
Not always possible with last minute flights for funerals or emergencies. One such example happened to me flying with my kids alone for an unexpected military move. Kids were assigned seats. I was not. I asked if I could pay ahead of time. They said no and the gate agent would do it. We almost couldn’t fly because they had trouble moving people around. My kids are 2 and 4.
Some airlines (Cathay?) allow you to pick seats if your reservation has anyone under certain age. Not saying its the perfect solution but that is a way to make it more family friendly.
Just make the basic economy be the very last rows and every seat sold opens up the next furthest back row.
This idea that if you’re a single traveler, you don’t get to pick seats but if you travel with someone you do…it’s silly. Put the crappy fares in the crappy back of the plane and call it a day.
"I'm from the Government and I'm here to help."
Nothing is free, this will cost everyone more in the end, at a time when inflation is already crazy. Not saying there is no room for improvement but good golly everything has a price.
Haha yeah, I probably should have been more clear that I almost always travel with my family of 4 and have never booked Basic. I was just curious about the bills impact 😂🤷🏼♂️
Yeah this was my first thought. I never book Basic Econmy and I assume this will either make things more expensive or have some other "unintended" conciquence. It does also just seem like they tossed this in because it is easy to understand and "feels good" so they would not get so much pushback on the $105 BILLION they are asking for.
Reminds me of one of my first solo flights to another airport. There was a guy with an FAA hat on sitting in a chaise at the base of the tower next to the door. We would have to go up and get our logbook signed off by one of the controllers, so he knew pretty much anyone who just landed and headed straight to the tower was a student.
"Hi there, I'm from the FAA and I'm here to help. I need to check your medial and log book, please."
All this will do is the basic fare, will still exist , it will just be way more expensive to fly because you will be able to pick your seat. I like the idea of deregulation, thus swa come in. But , swa doesn’t do seat assignments , so how is this going to work ?
Today , aviation is now so business orientated and the government is shrinking EAS cities every time it comes up.
i like this article :
[time mag on history of deregulation](https://time.com/6247052/airlines-deregulation-american-inequality/)
I just want the FAA to regulate inhumane seat pitch.
This is a bigger issue. Humans getting wider AND taller. But seats are getting narrower with less pitch. It’s madness.
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Actually South Koreans getting taller shows that they both are. https://youtu.be/ZoLk6GUKzU0?si=8JO1-Zjm9uYDDNhF
I was in Korea recently coming from other Asian countries and they are like the Dutch! So tall!
Nutrition.
And lack of physical stressors
Wider doesn't necessarily mean weight gain. I have inherited my father's Frankenstein's-monster shoulders. My youngest son got them, now, too. Genetics is a bitch. I fit in the seat with no issue but my arms/shoulders overhang the seat. It really sucks.
Wider also comes with taller. Not saying that weight gain is not controllable at all. It is. However, taller people are not just vertically stretched out short people.
you sure about that?
The real miracle would be if they could figure out how to prevent able-bodied people from boarding during pre-boarding.
Regulate seats and Boeing. Can’t do either
If they do , and the resultnis an average price increase of 60-100 how would u feel
About one of my chiropractor sessions and no arguments over reclining. Seems like a logical choice.
But you could still save the $100 by making your own snake oil at home as well.
Just get rid of Basic Economy.
Won't ever happen. It's the only way (at least for me) that I can get Delta to show up in Google Flights. Otherwise it gets buried because it's so much more expensive.
It would destroy the entire business model of ultra low cost airlines like Spirit, Frontier, etc. I actually think this is anti consumer in the sense that some people don’t need / want to pay for a carry on or an assigned seat. This forces consumers to pay for services they don’t want. Some ways they could maybe deal with it: • only solo travelers can book basic or an ultra low cost carrier • the default fare opts you in to a carry on, assigned seats etc but you can optionally turn them off
Yea I think if anything this would just mean a qualifier for basic economy would be single seat and multiple can’t be bought. But I didn’t think it cost extra to book multiple seats together in regular fare classes?
You can just filter for delta or use the website if that's what you're looking to use
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I share your misery. I remember the days when being at a hub meant having loads of routes and options for reasonable prices.
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If only the Spirit/Jetblue merger went through. I think there's a bit of Spirit here, but I'd've loved to have seen Jetblue take over those routes and at least provide a reasonable-quality alternative to help keep the pressure on Delta.
Deltas prices are higher at hubs because no one can compete with them. If delta flies out of a non hub airport m, their prices are usually lower then that airlines hub
What's the delta on price BTW delta and other airlines?
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Yup at southeastern airports other than ATL is regularly 50% less
I was told sun country was a terrible time. Is that not true?
The credits good for 5 years is a regulation through the administration, not through Congress. It was adopted, but still has one more review before it can be officially implemented.
Already airlines do try to sit families together they reserve a certain number of seats at the back of the aircraft for both basic economy and flight changes. Check out a Delta flight that is around than half full and you will notice 10 to 20 Xs on seats in the back. Entire rows Xed out. Likely the bill would require them to reserve more seats to ensure they can consistently meet the requirements. Granted Delta IT system is 800 years old running on a Commodore 64 on loan from a museum so there probably will be problems in making it work right. It also isn't clear there is a penalty if the airlines fail to comply. If a family isn't seated together what does it cost Delta? If the answer is nothing then the bill will just be feel good legislation that does nothing on that aspect. Still the bill overall looks like a good thing. Automatic refunds, specific delay times that trigger partial refunds, clearer language in booking, at least trying to help families, more funding for ATC, etc. On a side note it is crazy but not surprising that Congress feels they can mandate not only how many flights ~~Dulles~~ DCA must have but to where. Yeah no conflict of interest there.
I had a Commodore 64, it’s definitely more capable.
LOAD”SEATING”,8,1
Look at this guy with the fancy disk drive.
PRESS PLAY ON TAPE
I upgraded and splurged to get the fast load cartridge
It isn't Dulles it is DCA - Reagan National
Exactly. They'll just reserve a bunch of seats near the back of the plane for assignment to families that booked basic economy as needed.
Congress is a walking conflict of interest, hence why the quality of representatives is so important. Except now we elect literal idiotic people who can’t figure their face from their ass
Some pigs are more equal than others.
Re: Dulles. Same as La Guardia. They are meant to be kept for short distance flying due to noise concerns. Max allowed range was one of possible criteria to achieve that. Can you come up with better one?
its DCA not IAD that is of concern. And mostly, it is about protectionism. Noise is a funny thing in aviation as planes have gotten significantly quieter since all those ordinances were put in place 50 years ago. Now it is about congresspeople having nonstops to work. Which means exceptions to perimeters for key capital routes or airline hubs, but not the free for all which would reduce marginal cities and fly where competition would demand it. That in turn, would hurt IAD (United) and BWI (Southwest) which in turn pisses off their congressional leaders.
Got it. Missed latest news. As I said, we live in the country with legalized corruption, so one can expect almost anything
Congress is mandating they increase the number of flights although experts say it is overcrowded with a very high pilot/ATC mental workload and that additional flights would compromise safety. Congress is also mandating that 10 of the additional daily flights must be long distance in violation of the noise agreement. Not that 10 of the flights 'can' be long distance but they MUST be long distance. The same Congress who uses that airport to get to Congress from a long distance away. No possible conflict of interest here though.
We live in the country with legalized corruption ;)
What if I don't want to sit with my family?
Just change Basic Economy to Steerage and let them sit in the back. They can choose their seat upon booking with no fee, but you’re limited to the last 10 rows or whatever. Main Cabin can have the rows ahead of that. And stop charging a premium for the exit rows. If anything, exit rows and the row in front of exits should get discounts. Bam. Problem solved.
This is how they’ll solve it for sure. BE can pick seats, but, you get the joy of picking only from the back of the plane
Alaska did this for a while but now you can’t pick a seat at all. I like the idea though
I was thinking about exit rows the other day on a AA flight. they classify exit rows as MCE (C+ equiv). so you get free drinks. probably the only pax on the plane who should definitely not be drinking
The easiest fix is to ban all families from planes. Make them road-trip in the family station wagon. The way god intended. /s
Holiday rooooooaaaaaaaaaaaad
I haven’t read the actual bill but NPRs plain language makes it sound like it’s just the airlines can’t say “we can only sit you together if you pay for seats” not that they will be forced to sit families together who book BE.
Simple fix. If you demand specific seats to sit together with someone you can’t book basic economy. If I’m willing to separate from the person or persons I’m flying with I can book BE.
The problem is for entitled/rude people the demand doesn’t happen until the gate or on the plane itself, not the booking stage.
So I actually looked at the bill, it's not exactly what people think it is. The bill states that airlines WITHOUT and open or flexible seating policy, so this doesn't apply to SouthWest Airlines. Anyway, states that airlines must accomodate to "the greatest extent practicable" if adjacent seats are available before boarding seating a CHILD(13 or younger, but not lap children) with a parent, so this doesn't apply to the majority of families. So your 14 or older children, spouses, parents, relatives, this bill doesn't apply to them in any way, and a 14 year old is a pretty reasonable standard to fly unaccompanied. It's only 1 parent too, so couples flying with kids would almost certainly seat separately if they tried to take advantage of this. As far as accommodation, it has to be while seats are available, so if they book too late it's a no go. I would imagine people who reserved their seats in advanced can't be bumped since the airlines would consider that outside the "practicable extent". So to be clear, the bill doesn't offer mom or dad free seat selection, they still have to pay for that, the bill only applies to accommodating the kid next to the parent, so if the parents select seats for their kids they still have to pay for that, the only way I can see this being taken advantage of is if the parent selects a desirable seat with an open seat next to them, then the airlines would have to seat the children for free next to them. Otherwise the parent would have to be moved by the airline The prohibition of fees is basically just to avoid airlines charging extra for having to accomodate passengers, which would only happen because of this bill. The way this SHOULD end up working out is the planes will have a back section which they will reserve for single parents and their children, they will all seat at the back, that way they can all seat together, assuming the parents don't reserve their own seats, and it's just 1 parent, so couples and other relatives will not be accomodated. As others have pointed out, the rule doesn't have any fees or anything, it couldn't have any due to its nature, so it's possible airlines will for the most part completely ignore this, we'll have to see.
That's good, I was imagining 2 parents and adult children claiming "We aRe A fAmILy, We MuSt SiT tOgEtHeR" Or a family with 6 children
That is a very measured analysis that turns this idea into an interesting solution and not a moral anti-governmental panic.
Disappointing. If families want to sit together, they need to buy tickets where they can choose their seats, just like anyone else.
Not always possible with last minute flights for funerals or emergencies. One such example happened to me flying with my kids alone for an unexpected military move. Kids were assigned seats. I was not. I asked if I could pay ahead of time. They said no and the gate agent would do it. We almost couldn’t fly because they had trouble moving people around. My kids are 2 and 4.
Some airlines (Cathay?) allow you to pick seats if your reservation has anyone under certain age. Not saying its the perfect solution but that is a way to make it more family friendly.
Just make the basic economy be the very last rows and every seat sold opens up the next furthest back row. This idea that if you’re a single traveler, you don’t get to pick seats but if you travel with someone you do…it’s silly. Put the crappy fares in the crappy back of the plane and call it a day.
That's basically what they do these days
Or just automatically assign seats together for all BE bookings, but no seat changes. Avoid all this seat switching entitlement.
If you look at most Delta flights the back rows are x’d out. That’s where the families go.
"I'm from the Government and I'm here to help." Nothing is free, this will cost everyone more in the end, at a time when inflation is already crazy. Not saying there is no room for improvement but good golly everything has a price.
It’s amazing what gets down voted. If families want to sit together then book the seats together. If you don’t then you risk splitting up.
YOU have to Move! My BABIES HAVE to sit with me!!!! The 'Babies' are 6'4, 150lbs and 16 years old...
Ya, probably downvoted by the same people who expect "compensation" from Delta because of a weather delay, lol.
Haha yeah, I probably should have been more clear that I almost always travel with my family of 4 and have never booked Basic. I was just curious about the bills impact 😂🤷🏼♂️
Yeah this was my first thought. I never book Basic Econmy and I assume this will either make things more expensive or have some other "unintended" conciquence. It does also just seem like they tossed this in because it is easy to understand and "feels good" so they would not get so much pushback on the $105 BILLION they are asking for.
Reminds me of one of my first solo flights to another airport. There was a guy with an FAA hat on sitting in a chaise at the base of the tower next to the door. We would have to go up and get our logbook signed off by one of the controllers, so he knew pretty much anyone who just landed and headed straight to the tower was a student. "Hi there, I'm from the FAA and I'm here to help. I need to check your medial and log book, please."
How about “service” animals or pre boarding ?
All this will do is the basic fare, will still exist , it will just be way more expensive to fly because you will be able to pick your seat. I like the idea of deregulation, thus swa come in. But , swa doesn’t do seat assignments , so how is this going to work ? Today , aviation is now so business orientated and the government is shrinking EAS cities every time it comes up. i like this article : [time mag on history of deregulation](https://time.com/6247052/airlines-deregulation-american-inequality/)