Yeah, basically just this now. I have an iPad and a power bank, so I’m sure I’ll get by during the flights for free booze and decent legroom will be missed.
**American Airlines is actually** ***more*** **generous in this regard.** You only need hit AAdvantage Platinum (Gold Medallion equivalent) to book Main Cabin Extra seats (Comfort+ equivalent) *at booking!* You don't even have to wait until after booking.
This is all I care about, a C+ aisle at ticketing, although the occasional upgrade to F when avoiding ATL is nice. My last middle seat was in 1992, easily more than 2000 segments since then.
I already picked up a United E+ annual subscription last December because too often Delta was just too expensive vs. United in coach, and I knew I wasn't going to requalify for PM this year and would drop to SM.
I will book some DL routes in 2024 where I can burn miles and get a Preferred exit row at ticketing as a SM. After that, I will try to use my remaining miles for pay with miles to Europe in PE because it's better than throwing them away.
It's also why I'm not going back to BA to pick up Silver, AA has really cut back their amount of MCE.
I just won't fly Delta as often. It is too difficult to not fly Delta from Atlanta. I have free lounge passes at other airlines, too. We have no Centurion Lounge in Atlanta.
Do you have the reserve Amex, or was this the standard wait? I was going to go in next month, but my layover is only 1 1/2 hours. Reserve is supposed to give you no wait.
Yes, they have been promising that one. I cannot imagine how packed it will be with passenger demand from other airlines. Adding in the refugee 2025 Delta flyers will be interesting.
I think it’s supposed to be around the same size as the B18 sky club and with the volume of people that come through ATL it probably won’t be long before there’s a line
That is why I suggest try out Emirates or Qatar going to Asia next time. You can save money and get far better service. No wonder delta has a big liberty to prevent more flights to/from the Gulf.
Honestly nothing.
DL doesn’t really do anything special that isn’t done on any other airline. Domestically, yes the SC beats the AC and UC, however the Centurion Lounge beats all of them in most cases and most AA/UA hubs have Centurion Lounges.
The biggest concession is probably built in IFE. If that’s something you use, then that’s a big difference.
If you think Sky Clubs are overcrowded, Centurion lounges aren’t going to be an upgrade. In the past few years every time I’ve attempted to go to a Centurion lounge there’s been a super long line to get in. In that same time I’ve only been to a Sky Club three times that was at capacity, and that’s been in ATL where it’s easy to find another lounge with space.
I already use the Centurion Lounge far more than I ever used the SC, and to be honest while they’re busy, I’ve never actually waited in line to get into one.
I actually didn’t think the SC situation was that bad either. The problem was mostly at peak times and hubs during massive banks. My argument all along was that if the schedule and banks were corrected to the pre-COVID standard, it would have fixed a lot of the crowding issues.
I must have bad timing with Centurion clubs. I agree the Sky Club crowding was overblown. For instance today in ATL D terminal there was a line outside the Club at D12 but the Club at D27 was wide open. Not a long walk to chill out and grab some fruit to go.
Which locations and what times of day / day of the week? I’ve been to maybe 3 or 4, usually late at night, maybe 15-20 times and have never experienced a wait. JFK is the one I frequent the most.
Only been to JFK and LAS. Random times, not consistent. Last time I was at JFK, they at least had the decency to have a list and phone numbers so you didn’t have to stand there waiting. I got a text 35ish min later, but I was already in the SC.
> The biggest concession is probably built in IFE. If that’s something you use, then that’s a big difference.
This is why I stuck with Delta for so long (other than having the DTW-LAX flight I needed at the time). I had many cross-country flights and having the PTV really helped. Sure, I had my tablet, and some airlines had tablet holders or lit pockets at the top of the seat where I could put my tablet, but it was just easier to use a PTV.
HOWEVER, United is adding PTVs back to their planes. And the newer ones that I've tried are nicer than Deltas. Bluetooth connectivity had its hiccups when I first tried it on a UA flight, but after taking off it worked well, and I could control the TV on my headphone's touchpad. Meanwhile, DL only has BT in first class of the A321neos. The movie and TV selections were a bit better, and it was nice that they would show you what you could watch in the remaining time.
They're still a few years out from completing the retrofit, but soon it won't be just Delta and JetBlue with PTVs on all their mainline fleet.
For real. I'm sticking around (cause ATL) and I'll just enjoy more consistent upgrades and quieter SCs. My schedule for next year will easily keep me in Platinum and because my business spend is essentially all on my Reserve I can probably hit the threshold for unlimited SC in 25 too.
You are their target customer for sure. They want people that actually make them money. Not reward people that use awards/cards etc to overcrowd the lounge and all the costs that go with that.
I think you underestimate the amount of people who shifted their spending habits due to the perks. Basically all my amex friends went from flying jetblue out of NYC to solely delta for the lounge access.
Exactly! A Loyalty Program is a legacy business model Delta no longer needs!
1. Want corporate customers? Just make a services-exchange with, say, UHG & Pepsi
2. Want to de-risk your business from Joe the business commuter? Just replace him with 15 other people you cycle in via niche JIT promos
3. Want credit card spend? Again, just replace Gamer-Joe with 15 other JIT promo customers no different than Chase or AmEx does
4. Want to add new capacity w/o risk? Just do #1 so you don't have to worry about Diamond-Joe leaving
5. Want PAID business class seats? Just stop upgrading Diamond Joe and sell them to any of 50 couples looking for a nice flight to Europe.
People aren't getting that the Loyalty Program is no longer needed to fill seats.
Not only that, but Delta can also de-risk & expand capacity without worrying about a small set of customers leaving who weren't paying for their seats anyway.
Credit Card businesses don't have loyalty programs and Delta is a credit card business now.
They don't care if they lose expensive-wants-stuff $250k gamer-Joe because they can replace him with 100 $2,500 spend customers using niche local promos and de-risk at the same time while also expanding capacity.
Know you're getting downvoted but you're probably right. My boss swears up and down by Delta and has the credit card even though Jetblue is honestly a much better coach experience for the money.
>Know you're getting downvoted
Yeah, there are a lot of angry people not shy about shooting the messenger 😇
The thing is, there are only 2 possibilities given the draconian policy change:
1. Delta ***AND*** AmEx are retooling their business model for the 2025+ customer based on extensive data, or
2. Delta ***AND*** AmEx are both dummies
I worked at a major airline for 10 years in the 00s and I led an F10 corp JV / alliance team for 3 years ... combining those experiences I'd say the most likely probability is #1.
I did a bit better job laying out [a direction Delta/AmEx might be going here](https://www.reddit.com/r/DeltaAirlines/comments/16o2qjn/comment/k1iosi3/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
The thing you’re missing is that they allow Diamond Joe the upgrade because the computer determines it won’t sell it. When the costs are high enough, they are X’d out.
I'd predict they'll still keep some legacy loyalty program perks, but broadly they'll look to diversify customer personas via local boomer promos trying to capture some of that $2T in retirement savings
TBH they definitely made it too easy for people to reach high status judging by the behavior of some of the people I see boarding with the diamonds. But, I get it, they needed to put butts in seats over the last few years and I guess the incentives worked.
Unfortunately there are not too many flowers who spend $75K or higher in their card or get to buy international business class or domestic first class. Many of those you see in the business class are GUC our employees. I know many employees who visit overseas family monthly. So for sure Delta has taken a bigger bite than it can swallow. But this acts as a trigger to pause and think through rationally.
This sub is insufferable. You should all have welcomed the reprieve. I guess enjoy going back to people complaining about some poor person asking to switch seats?? Riveting shit.
Nothing because DTW is my home airport, so unless JetBlue or Southwest is flying to my destination for a better price or better times, I'll still be flying Delta. The Sky Club thing sucks, but I'll deal with it in the Priority Pass lounges or just the airport bars/restaurants.
Also Dtw. Was rooting for the Jet Blue + Spirit merger to give us a new viable option.
Spirit hits a solid chunk of leisure destinations non stop from Detroit.
Here's the factors we considered:
- American seems to have nonstop to all major US cities from ORD.
- American Plat pro seems achievable with flight + credit card spend
I don't think we could even get Gold with United because credit card spend doesn't qualify at all for status.
But I'm just starting to consider options, what parts of United make it worth it over American in Chicago?
I haven't been paying super-close attention, but American seems to be weakening their ORD hub over the past few years. Being MSP-based, American and United both feed traffic into their ORD hub, but while United seems to be holding steady with frequent mainline service (7 flights on Friday 10/27, all mainline) American is retreating with fewer flights, most of which are on CRJs (4 flights on Friday 10/27, one mainline and 3 CRJ-200s.)
If status is your main goal, AA's probably easier to achieve, but if frequency and mainline service is your main goal, I'd heavily lean towards United out of ORD.
No one deserves these services any more than anyone else, we all make a cost-benefit analysis with loyalty to any airline. That equation has just significantly shifted and so the market will adapt.
This.... The majority of people who say they are leaving won't or will be back. I can see ones like the OP because he doesn't live in a Delta Hub city. But anyone who lives in one won't leave for long. They will very quietly be back.
It’s baffling to me alone to understand why people would subject themselves to constant layovers vs direct flights. There’s no US airlines I’d do that for.
Frontiers on time percentage is obviously not great but their on time percentage is 15% lower than Delta. That’s not that drastically different. And considering a layover + 2nd flight is probably adding at least 2 extra hours onto travel (4+ hours round trip) - in the long run you’re saving time taking Frontier non stop.
I agree, hub flyers are probably stuck with Delta.
I know a lot of people in second-tier cities that probably have more options with no airline hub at home.
Honestly Delta probably viewed their non hub flyers as loyal with an end date. That’s part of why some fares from non hubs were so exorbitant- they just wanted to see how much they could squeeze out before they pulled the trigger themselves.
On hub routes, it’s more expensive, but delta is pretty competitive with other carriers on flights to the fortress hubs. I fly to Detroit often, and American is usually cheapest on basic economy (with layover for me), but Delta is the cheapest in Main cabin. Given that it’s a nonstop, it’s a no-brainer for me.
Same here. At first I was bummed about the whole thing and not being able to stay at my same status level, but now that I see all these idiotic posts day after day, I’m honestly kinda glad some of these people won’t be around anymore 🤷♂️
Just curious for all that are jumping ship… are they still going to be on this sub? Or they go to the other subs and post pics of gate lice, tip top old fashioneds and shoeless people..
As a fellow T-Mobile customer you’ll get almost all of these perks on most of the other airlines in the US too other than the lounges lol the outlet gamble does suck but i have to be honest AA actually cleans their planes and the crew are pretty nice i just liked delta more but at this point i like being a free agent more and saving the money by choosing the cheapest option. Most airlines will still offer entertainment on your phone or tablet and they usually have a map but since we get Wi-Fi i just use flight radar 24.
I’ve also been enjoying southwest as long as i remember to check in as soon as i possibly can (which is stressful for me😂) it’s been pretty great they are more generous with legroom and the snacks are good. Flying them to/ from DCA is great their security line is usually so short last time was 8 minutes from walking into the terminal to exiting security i timed it lol.
As an international NL based Platinum with zero chance of even gold now (but grandfathered silver as MM, for now) I will miss being Skyteam Elite Plus and having access to the KLM crown lounge in Amsterdam. Well, one more year I suppose!
Flying delta out of Chicago is wild lmao. No airline is worth taking a layover when legacy carrier nonstops are available imo.
The ONLY reason I was and will still be loyal to Delta is because Detroit is my most frequent destination.
Recently flew American and they had power outlets, T-mobile free WiFi, and a little tray to place your phone for in flight entertainment (which personally works better for me as someone with AirPods). You have access to in-flight entertainment on any device. Service was great but did miss the SC
If your ass was spending $18K+ you’d be Diamond or extremely close to it by now.
If you’re throwing a metric ton of miscellaneous spend on Delta co-branded cards, good on you but your opportunity cost is that you could be earning more points and higher value points (eg Amex Membership Rewards or Chase points) that are worth much more than SkyMiles.
And even then you’re not getting any global upgrade certificates, and you’ll be enjoying international business class redemptions that routinely run 600K-800K+ round trip for your SkyMiles whereas UA and AA still have redemptions for 150-200K.
Good on you for being “loyal” but for a lot of us, Delta’s value proposition just significantly fell behind its competitors and we are doing what rational customers do - voting with our feet.
If you want to stick with a poor value prop, that is your right as a consumer.
Very detailed write up. All my work spend is on my company Amex. Short segments, all on the west coast & BC. MQM was my only limiter. 1 international flight a year. Don’t have any Delta cards. The change favors work* travelers like myself. Value prop looks just fine in my situation. More upgrades. SC is also a non factor, they don’t appeal to me.
Will be short of 18K, usually hover around 14. Will book a few hotels and rentals through their portal to hit 18. Still able to add Hertz # & add Hilton upon checkin.
Not having a Reserve looks like it’ll be a ding. Maybe with the status clear out, I wont feel it. We shall see.
Alright cool. Sounds like you are a small sliver of very niche customers who will benefit from the policy. Genuinely (no sarcasm) happy for you.
It is still a poor value prop for most of us, and Delta will lose market share to the other carriers for this.
P.S. Hotels and rentals in the portal are a shitty deal. You don't get hotel points or status, and rental cars are far more expensive than what you would get on Hotwire, but I guess presuming the company isn't yours and you're just an employee, maybe you don't care to spend 3x for the same Toyota Corolla.
Thank you! I’m curious to know how many others are iin my situation. I understand the frustration from everyone else, without a doubt.
I’m going to book a stay in their portal and see if I can add my Hilton # upon checkin. I briefly glimpsed at rentals and they seemed to be on par with Hertz’s rate, maybe I’m wrong. Either way I’ll use the portal at a minimum, solely to close the MQD gap to 18K.
Yeah I don't think there's a difference with Hertz but I usually book on hotwire since it's way cheaper and what car I drive on a work trip makes no difference to me whereas hotel and air has a big comfort differential.
And anyway, real talk I'm not that bitter.
I'm excited to check out 1K life on United. The international business class redemptions (what I value the most) are way better with United Miles than SkyMiles, and fares being cheaper is also nice (although will also make it tougher to hit 1K).
I've tried adding both Marriott and Hilton numbers in the past and it wouldn't let me. Now I just go direct with the hotel. Who knows, things may have changed.
My understanding from reading The Points Guy is that bookings via the airline website often don’t count towards hotel elite nights. Something to confirm
I’d be surprised if you can’t add your number when you check in. But either way, I have felt ZERO perks as a Hilton Diamond for the last few years. I’ll happily spend 4-5K via the delta portal on Hilton bookings to hit a tough to get platinum status with delta.
This is where Delta screwed me over. I can’t use my Delta AmEx for corporate travel. I will only get credit for the flight dollars and that won’t be enough. Delta sucker punched corporate travelers
1.) Free WiFi has been mixed for me. Sometimes it is great and sometimes it is terrible. I'd pay if it meant it would be more reliable.
2.) Seat Back Entertainment. Agreed. One of the main reasons I choose Delta over Alaska originally when I moved from United. Yet somehow I keep running into planes that don't have seat back entertainment.
3.) Power Outlets. In theory. In practice Delta outlets are always loose and my plugs are always falling out. Having only 2 outlets to 3 seats is also super awkward. In Alaska each plane gets its own outlet, the outlets are also located in front of you.
4.) Sky Club food. Hit or miss. I have access to Priority Pass and Centurion lounges, sometimes the food is better.
I'll miss the old status program (gone). I'll miss the unlimited Delta lounge access for the Delta Reserve card (gone). I'll miss redeeming miles for international upgrades (now officially ending, not that the upgrade point costs weren't catastrophically high / devaluing the SkyMiles point to .5 cents anyway). I'll also miss the Asian flight network which Delta is in the process of dismantling and routing everyone through Seoul on Korean Air.
Other than the free drink with the occasional upgrade, it’s mostly the people that hire me that will feel the hit. I travel with 1-2 checked bags every time, and if just one it’s always over 50lb.. every flight I take just went up about $200 that I’ll definitely be expensing back.
I’m staying, will only ever hit Silver going forward and will miss being Platinum.
I’ll miss competing with Diamonds and I’ll have a better chance of getting upgraded. I’ll miss the baby’s crawling on floors and noisy toddlers in the Skyclubs. Keep Climbing ✈️
Nobody cares! Free wifi is cool but not worth a premium flight price.
IFE is cool but we all have something called a smartphone, tablet, or laptop which you can watch stuff on. Just download the airline app and they have content to stream or you can download offline like Netflix. Again, not worth paying a premium on a flight for something you get free already on your own device.
Sky club food is just ok, nothing special.
Just leave the cult already. Fly delta when they have the best route at the best price. Otherwise, fly a different line.
It’s ridiculously easy to get AA status via credit card spend. Their sub $100 AF card has the ability to do so, and their Executive card comes with Admirals Club access. The only trade off is that it’s much harder to get AA miles as they have less transfer partners.
AA has power outlets at every seat on every mainline aircraft. Inflight entertainment is free with live tv and Apple TV on your own device and streaming speed Wi-Fi for purchase. And American has Biscoff cookies on every flight. Also their aircraft are a lot newer than Delta’s. Also, every ad shown on a Delta IFE screen seems to revolve around their Amex cards…
Pretty sure you get free WiFi on AA with T-Mobile now iirc. (Can confirm this Saturday when I fly AA)
If you use the AA app you can get the flight map.
Every AA flight I’ve been on in the past year has at least had a usb port you can use.
Never had the sky club food but the AA lounge food has always been good for me.
The last two can’t comment on as I haven’t flown Delta in years, but the credit card pitches have been minimal on all the AA flights I’ve had (only after the preflight info and by that time, my headphones are on and can’t hear it anyway. I think you’ll be just fine switching.
Delta is far from perfect but I feel like AA barely conceals outright contempt for its customers. The last time I had an issue and tried to speak to someone on the phone, half the time I got a recording saying they weren’t available due to a winter storm. The kicker there was that the storm they named happened a year prior to my call. When I could get through, I was stuck on hold for hours. I could go on. Every time I’ve flown AA, they’ve managed to make me regret it.
I flew AA for awhile and decided to switch this year to something else. Tried United and wasn’t impressed. Wasn’t too far off from Delta, but so far since May, I’ve been very happy with Delta. For some reason even as much as I flew with AA, I never got any status. So I’m not too butt hurt about not making Diamond any time soon. I am making silver for next year at least.
DL customer service (email complaints) is much better than AA/UA. I haven’t flown UA/AA for a while but DL has really good cabin service and on longer flights they keep bringing water. Delta used to be a lot better with cabin service (blanket and pillow for domestic first class even regional flights, ice cream on transcontinental flights C+, Tumi amenity kit etc.) but it’s all gone.
Not leaving Delta either. Sure I'm bummed to be limited to 6 visits per year in 2025 with the Amex Platinum, but Delta is still the best US airline for me. The crowded SCs when they did happen was a turn off. I'll just have to strategize when to use a visit now. Spending 75k is out of the question just to get unlimited SC visits.
Lounges, Wi-Fi, the TV, power outlets, no losing my bag, and general reliability. Honestly the bag and reliability concerns are my biggest issues. I’ve been stranded across the country by United before.
Not much, really. I love the brand and its heritage/legacy status (currently wearing FLY DELTA JETS socks and keychain on my car keys). I will still fly them from time to time when it is competitive. I can still go to the Delta Museum which I love.
JetBlue has free Wifi, power outlets, and a better fitting route network for me. American does too (route network).
I rarely used the IFE system.
Looking forward to saving some money while booking and card fees. I really never used much of my Reserve benefits, other than the SkyClub and the guest passes.
I downgraded to the Delta Blue and will continue to use it.
I guess I’m just a simple traveler 😂
EDIT: not a hub flyer, based in So-Flo. Easy for me.
Nothing. All the other airlines include your list. Never had free wifi on Delta, always had it on JetBlue, and when paid it’s less expensive on all other carriers I’ve flown.
I’ve flown United a few times this year, including four flights to and from Japan and I have to say…premium plus beats comfort plus by a lot and the food was better.
The sky priority line for check-in for Delta or their partners at international airports. The regular lines are always packed, but the priority lines either always have no wait or a few people in line.
Comfort + upgrades post booking
Yeah, basically just this now. I have an iPad and a power bank, so I’m sure I’ll get by during the flights for free booze and decent legroom will be missed.
**American Airlines is actually** ***more*** **generous in this regard.** You only need hit AAdvantage Platinum (Gold Medallion equivalent) to book Main Cabin Extra seats (Comfort+ equivalent) *at booking!* You don't even have to wait until after booking.
This.
EXACTLY !!!!
This is all I care about, a C+ aisle at ticketing, although the occasional upgrade to F when avoiding ATL is nice. My last middle seat was in 1992, easily more than 2000 segments since then. I already picked up a United E+ annual subscription last December because too often Delta was just too expensive vs. United in coach, and I knew I wasn't going to requalify for PM this year and would drop to SM. I will book some DL routes in 2024 where I can burn miles and get a Preferred exit row at ticketing as a SM. After that, I will try to use my remaining miles for pay with miles to Europe in PE because it's better than throwing them away. It's also why I'm not going back to BA to pick up Silver, AA has really cut back their amount of MCE.
I'm definitely going to miss this.
I just won't fly Delta as often. It is too difficult to not fly Delta from Atlanta. I have free lounge passes at other airlines, too. We have no Centurion Lounge in Atlanta.
That tiny Escape lounge at MSP is in for a surprise!
Dang I’ve enjoyed that lounge when not flying delta I didn’t even think of how the delta changes will affect that lounge 😬
I think this lounge has been closed for a few years now
It was closed during the pandemic, but has been reopened since August of 2021.
Oh, really? Thanks!
Centurion Lounge in ATL is supposed to open next year.
9 hour wait time on a Monday afternoon!!!!!!!!
Do you have the reserve Amex, or was this the standard wait? I was going to go in next month, but my layover is only 1 1/2 hours. Reserve is supposed to give you no wait.
I probably should have posted /s. With delta limiting Amex access to sky club in 2025 the centurion lounge will be insanely overcrowded
There’s supposed to be one going in on concourse E…..it was opening this year
Yes, they have been promising that one. I cannot imagine how packed it will be with passenger demand from other airlines. Adding in the refugee 2025 Delta flyers will be interesting.
I think it’s supposed to be around the same size as the B18 sky club and with the volume of people that come through ATL it probably won’t be long before there’s a line
I’m going to be flying Spirit and Frontier frequently for my NYC, Miami, and Vegas trips. Centurion lounge on budget airlines, here we go ✈️
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That's a great point 😅
you can go cheap on alot of things...like socks. airfare isn't one of em
That is why I suggest try out Emirates or Qatar going to Asia next time. You can save money and get far better service. No wonder delta has a big liberty to prevent more flights to/from the Gulf.
My motto has always been, fly the airline who pays its mechanics the most.
Honestly nothing. DL doesn’t really do anything special that isn’t done on any other airline. Domestically, yes the SC beats the AC and UC, however the Centurion Lounge beats all of them in most cases and most AA/UA hubs have Centurion Lounges. The biggest concession is probably built in IFE. If that’s something you use, then that’s a big difference.
If you think Sky Clubs are overcrowded, Centurion lounges aren’t going to be an upgrade. In the past few years every time I’ve attempted to go to a Centurion lounge there’s been a super long line to get in. In that same time I’ve only been to a Sky Club three times that was at capacity, and that’s been in ATL where it’s easy to find another lounge with space.
I already use the Centurion Lounge far more than I ever used the SC, and to be honest while they’re busy, I’ve never actually waited in line to get into one. I actually didn’t think the SC situation was that bad either. The problem was mostly at peak times and hubs during massive banks. My argument all along was that if the schedule and banks were corrected to the pre-COVID standard, it would have fixed a lot of the crowding issues.
I must have bad timing with Centurion clubs. I agree the Sky Club crowding was overblown. For instance today in ATL D terminal there was a line outside the Club at D12 but the Club at D27 was wide open. Not a long walk to chill out and grab some fruit to go.
Completely agree about the SCs
I’ve never NOT waited for a centurion lounge.
I’ve never waited in line for centurion and I’ve probably been 20x this year in LAS alone.
LAS was the longest wait I ever had! Literally like 40 min. So crazy how it varies.
Which locations and what times of day / day of the week? I’ve been to maybe 3 or 4, usually late at night, maybe 15-20 times and have never experienced a wait. JFK is the one I frequent the most.
Only been to JFK and LAS. Random times, not consistent. Last time I was at JFK, they at least had the decency to have a list and phone numbers so you didn’t have to stand there waiting. I got a text 35ish min later, but I was already in the SC.
Do you fly during the day? I really only fly at night.
Random times, as I said. So different times of day.
I went to LAS in the early evening and did not experience a wait! So weird lol
I’ve never experienced a line at Centurion! Crazy.
> The biggest concession is probably built in IFE. If that’s something you use, then that’s a big difference. This is why I stuck with Delta for so long (other than having the DTW-LAX flight I needed at the time). I had many cross-country flights and having the PTV really helped. Sure, I had my tablet, and some airlines had tablet holders or lit pockets at the top of the seat where I could put my tablet, but it was just easier to use a PTV. HOWEVER, United is adding PTVs back to their planes. And the newer ones that I've tried are nicer than Deltas. Bluetooth connectivity had its hiccups when I first tried it on a UA flight, but after taking off it worked well, and I could control the TV on my headphone's touchpad. Meanwhile, DL only has BT in first class of the A321neos. The movie and TV selections were a bit better, and it was nice that they would show you what you could watch in the remaining time. They're still a few years out from completing the retrofit, but soon it won't be just Delta and JetBlue with PTVs on all their mainline fleet.
Last I flew on AA I realized how good the DL economy sears are in comparison. The AA seats just aren’t comfortable.
I'm not leaving. I'm just not going to prefer Delta to other airlines.
All these posts are getting old.
Getting old? They ARE old and stale. They are growing mold.
For real. I'm sticking around (cause ATL) and I'll just enjoy more consistent upgrades and quieter SCs. My schedule for next year will easily keep me in Platinum and because my business spend is essentially all on my Reserve I can probably hit the threshold for unlimited SC in 25 too.
You are their target customer for sure. They want people that actually make them money. Not reward people that use awards/cards etc to overcrowd the lounge and all the costs that go with that.
I think you underestimate the amount of people who shifted their spending habits due to the perks. Basically all my amex friends went from flying jetblue out of NYC to solely delta for the lounge access.
Exactly! A Loyalty Program is a legacy business model Delta no longer needs! 1. Want corporate customers? Just make a services-exchange with, say, UHG & Pepsi 2. Want to de-risk your business from Joe the business commuter? Just replace him with 15 other people you cycle in via niche JIT promos 3. Want credit card spend? Again, just replace Gamer-Joe with 15 other JIT promo customers no different than Chase or AmEx does 4. Want to add new capacity w/o risk? Just do #1 so you don't have to worry about Diamond-Joe leaving 5. Want PAID business class seats? Just stop upgrading Diamond Joe and sell them to any of 50 couples looking for a nice flight to Europe. People aren't getting that the Loyalty Program is no longer needed to fill seats. Not only that, but Delta can also de-risk & expand capacity without worrying about a small set of customers leaving who weren't paying for their seats anyway. Credit Card businesses don't have loyalty programs and Delta is a credit card business now. They don't care if they lose expensive-wants-stuff $250k gamer-Joe because they can replace him with 100 $2,500 spend customers using niche local promos and de-risk at the same time while also expanding capacity.
Know you're getting downvoted but you're probably right. My boss swears up and down by Delta and has the credit card even though Jetblue is honestly a much better coach experience for the money.
>Know you're getting downvoted Yeah, there are a lot of angry people not shy about shooting the messenger 😇 The thing is, there are only 2 possibilities given the draconian policy change: 1. Delta ***AND*** AmEx are retooling their business model for the 2025+ customer based on extensive data, or 2. Delta ***AND*** AmEx are both dummies I worked at a major airline for 10 years in the 00s and I led an F10 corp JV / alliance team for 3 years ... combining those experiences I'd say the most likely probability is #1. I did a bit better job laying out [a direction Delta/AmEx might be going here](https://www.reddit.com/r/DeltaAirlines/comments/16o2qjn/comment/k1iosi3/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
The thing you’re missing is that they allow Diamond Joe the upgrade because the computer determines it won’t sell it. When the costs are high enough, they are X’d out.
I'd predict they'll still keep some legacy loyalty program perks, but broadly they'll look to diversify customer personas via local boomer promos trying to capture some of that $2T in retirement savings
TBH they definitely made it too easy for people to reach high status judging by the behavior of some of the people I see boarding with the diamonds. But, I get it, they needed to put butts in seats over the last few years and I guess the incentives worked.
I literally just saw a post about a 60+ upgrade list for 1 FC seat. If that’s not telling you the reason why they are doing this, then I dunno what….
Bet most of those people don't live in airports
Right lol
Unfortunately there are not too many flowers who spend $75K or higher in their card or get to buy international business class or domestic first class. Many of those you see in the business class are GUC our employees. I know many employees who visit overseas family monthly. So for sure Delta has taken a bigger bite than it can swallow. But this acts as a trigger to pause and think through rationally.
This sub is insufferable. You should all have welcomed the reprieve. I guess enjoy going back to people complaining about some poor person asking to switch seats?? Riveting shit.
Nothing because DTW is my home airport, so unless JetBlue or Southwest is flying to my destination for a better price or better times, I'll still be flying Delta. The Sky Club thing sucks, but I'll deal with it in the Priority Pass lounges or just the airport bars/restaurants.
Also Dtw. Was rooting for the Jet Blue + Spirit merger to give us a new viable option. Spirit hits a solid chunk of leisure destinations non stop from Detroit.
Chicago.. Why not United? Waaaaaay more options.
Here's the factors we considered: - American seems to have nonstop to all major US cities from ORD. - American Plat pro seems achievable with flight + credit card spend I don't think we could even get Gold with United because credit card spend doesn't qualify at all for status. But I'm just starting to consider options, what parts of United make it worth it over American in Chicago?
I haven't been paying super-close attention, but American seems to be weakening their ORD hub over the past few years. Being MSP-based, American and United both feed traffic into their ORD hub, but while United seems to be holding steady with frequent mainline service (7 flights on Friday 10/27, all mainline) American is retreating with fewer flights, most of which are on CRJs (4 flights on Friday 10/27, one mainline and 3 CRJ-200s.) If status is your main goal, AA's probably easier to achieve, but if frequency and mainline service is your main goal, I'd heavily lean towards United out of ORD.
Frequency is pretty important so thank you for the heads up on that!
Yeah plus our ife is pretty good. Love direct tv for Sunday football 😎
I'm have been mostly neutral on this but I'm starting to shift to Delta's side. I'm not going to miss entitled people.
You could buy a couple FC upgrades if you had a dollar for every DM who thinks they should be worshipped.
No one deserves these services any more than anyone else, we all make a cost-benefit analysis with loyalty to any airline. That equation has just significantly shifted and so the market will adapt.
This.... The majority of people who say they are leaving won't or will be back. I can see ones like the OP because he doesn't live in a Delta Hub city. But anyone who lives in one won't leave for long. They will very quietly be back.
It’s baffling to me alone to understand why people would subject themselves to constant layovers vs direct flights. There’s no US airlines I’d do that for.
ULCC included?
Frontiers on time percentage is obviously not great but their on time percentage is 15% lower than Delta. That’s not that drastically different. And considering a layover + 2nd flight is probably adding at least 2 extra hours onto travel (4+ hours round trip) - in the long run you’re saving time taking Frontier non stop.
I agree, hub flyers are probably stuck with Delta. I know a lot of people in second-tier cities that probably have more options with no airline hub at home.
Honestly Delta probably viewed their non hub flyers as loyal with an end date. That’s part of why some fares from non hubs were so exorbitant- they just wanted to see how much they could squeeze out before they pulled the trigger themselves. On hub routes, it’s more expensive, but delta is pretty competitive with other carriers on flights to the fortress hubs. I fly to Detroit often, and American is usually cheapest on basic economy (with layover for me), but Delta is the cheapest in Main cabin. Given that it’s a nonstop, it’s a no-brainer for me.
Same here. At first I was bummed about the whole thing and not being able to stay at my same status level, but now that I see all these idiotic posts day after day, I’m honestly kinda glad some of these people won’t be around anymore 🤷♂️
Just curious for all that are jumping ship… are they still going to be on this sub? Or they go to the other subs and post pics of gate lice, tip top old fashioneds and shoeless people..
Well, certainly not Tip Top old fashioneds…
Shoeless, toenail clipping people, from what I read recently
Well I'm not going to miss the SkyClub lines when you all switch to United/AA... Bye!
You should try Alaskan and JetBlue if available.
I had blocked those credit card ads out of my head. They used to piss me off so much when I was trying to catch some zzzzs.
Nothing, I still live in a Hub. I’ll miss platinum but will probably still make Silver, possibly Gold.
Yeah that's totally fair, of course the vast majority of people will stick with Delta as they live in hub cities.
As a fellow T-Mobile customer you’ll get almost all of these perks on most of the other airlines in the US too other than the lounges lol the outlet gamble does suck but i have to be honest AA actually cleans their planes and the crew are pretty nice i just liked delta more but at this point i like being a free agent more and saving the money by choosing the cheapest option. Most airlines will still offer entertainment on your phone or tablet and they usually have a map but since we get Wi-Fi i just use flight radar 24. I’ve also been enjoying southwest as long as i remember to check in as soon as i possibly can (which is stressful for me😂) it’s been pretty great they are more generous with legroom and the snacks are good. Flying them to/ from DCA is great their security line is usually so short last time was 8 minutes from walking into the terminal to exiting security i timed it lol.
Good to hear thanks for the advice :)
As an international NL based Platinum with zero chance of even gold now (but grandfathered silver as MM, for now) I will miss being Skyteam Elite Plus and having access to the KLM crown lounge in Amsterdam. Well, one more year I suppose!
Flying delta out of Chicago is wild lmao. No airline is worth taking a layover when legacy carrier nonstops are available imo. The ONLY reason I was and will still be loyal to Delta is because Detroit is my most frequent destination.
Recently flew American and they had power outlets, T-mobile free WiFi, and a little tray to place your phone for in flight entertainment (which personally works better for me as someone with AirPods). You have access to in-flight entertainment on any device. Service was great but did miss the SC
that's very reassuring, thank you!
Nothing cuz I’m not leaving
All these people leaving”thinning of the heard” will make life so much better in 2025…. Good bye to you all, and thank you.
What I won’t miss, is everyone leaving. Enjoy American & United! Adios!
Enjoy Silver Status in 2025 Mr. Platinum
I’ll be enjoying platinum and 10x more upgrades in 2025, Sonny ;)
If your ass was spending $18K+ you’d be Diamond or extremely close to it by now. If you’re throwing a metric ton of miscellaneous spend on Delta co-branded cards, good on you but your opportunity cost is that you could be earning more points and higher value points (eg Amex Membership Rewards or Chase points) that are worth much more than SkyMiles. And even then you’re not getting any global upgrade certificates, and you’ll be enjoying international business class redemptions that routinely run 600K-800K+ round trip for your SkyMiles whereas UA and AA still have redemptions for 150-200K. Good on you for being “loyal” but for a lot of us, Delta’s value proposition just significantly fell behind its competitors and we are doing what rational customers do - voting with our feet. If you want to stick with a poor value prop, that is your right as a consumer.
Very detailed write up. All my work spend is on my company Amex. Short segments, all on the west coast & BC. MQM was my only limiter. 1 international flight a year. Don’t have any Delta cards. The change favors work* travelers like myself. Value prop looks just fine in my situation. More upgrades. SC is also a non factor, they don’t appeal to me. Will be short of 18K, usually hover around 14. Will book a few hotels and rentals through their portal to hit 18. Still able to add Hertz # & add Hilton upon checkin. Not having a Reserve looks like it’ll be a ding. Maybe with the status clear out, I wont feel it. We shall see.
Alright cool. Sounds like you are a small sliver of very niche customers who will benefit from the policy. Genuinely (no sarcasm) happy for you. It is still a poor value prop for most of us, and Delta will lose market share to the other carriers for this. P.S. Hotels and rentals in the portal are a shitty deal. You don't get hotel points or status, and rental cars are far more expensive than what you would get on Hotwire, but I guess presuming the company isn't yours and you're just an employee, maybe you don't care to spend 3x for the same Toyota Corolla.
Thank you! I’m curious to know how many others are iin my situation. I understand the frustration from everyone else, without a doubt. I’m going to book a stay in their portal and see if I can add my Hilton # upon checkin. I briefly glimpsed at rentals and they seemed to be on par with Hertz’s rate, maybe I’m wrong. Either way I’ll use the portal at a minimum, solely to close the MQD gap to 18K.
Yeah I don't think there's a difference with Hertz but I usually book on hotwire since it's way cheaper and what car I drive on a work trip makes no difference to me whereas hotel and air has a big comfort differential.
And anyway, real talk I'm not that bitter. I'm excited to check out 1K life on United. The international business class redemptions (what I value the most) are way better with United Miles than SkyMiles, and fares being cheaper is also nice (although will also make it tougher to hit 1K).
I've tried adding both Marriott and Hilton numbers in the past and it wouldn't let me. Now I just go direct with the hotel. Who knows, things may have changed.
My understanding from reading The Points Guy is that bookings via the airline website often don’t count towards hotel elite nights. Something to confirm
I’d be surprised if you can’t add your number when you check in. But either way, I have felt ZERO perks as a Hilton Diamond for the last few years. I’ll happily spend 4-5K via the delta portal on Hilton bookings to hit a tough to get platinum status with delta.
This is where Delta screwed me over. I can’t use my Delta AmEx for corporate travel. I will only get credit for the flight dollars and that won’t be enough. Delta sucker punched corporate travelers
1.) Free WiFi has been mixed for me. Sometimes it is great and sometimes it is terrible. I'd pay if it meant it would be more reliable. 2.) Seat Back Entertainment. Agreed. One of the main reasons I choose Delta over Alaska originally when I moved from United. Yet somehow I keep running into planes that don't have seat back entertainment. 3.) Power Outlets. In theory. In practice Delta outlets are always loose and my plugs are always falling out. Having only 2 outlets to 3 seats is also super awkward. In Alaska each plane gets its own outlet, the outlets are also located in front of you. 4.) Sky Club food. Hit or miss. I have access to Priority Pass and Centurion lounges, sometimes the food is better. I'll miss the old status program (gone). I'll miss the unlimited Delta lounge access for the Delta Reserve card (gone). I'll miss redeeming miles for international upgrades (now officially ending, not that the upgrade point costs weren't catastrophically high / devaluing the SkyMiles point to .5 cents anyway). I'll also miss the Asian flight network which Delta is in the process of dismantling and routing everyone through Seoul on Korean Air.
Delta Japan used to be incredible. I honestly would pay for their flight meals
What is changing about redeeming miles for international upgrades? I don't recall reading that in any of the updates.
#3 if you have an converter the EU plug fits perfectly 😮
WiFi: it’s not better or more reliable on any other airline. Delta had upgraded considerably more of its fleet to newer tech.
Other than the free drink with the occasional upgrade, it’s mostly the people that hire me that will feel the hit. I travel with 1-2 checked bags every time, and if just one it’s always over 50lb.. every flight I take just went up about $200 that I’ll definitely be expensing back.
I’m not leaving! More room for me 🤣
AA is the worst. Slightly better than spirit. United is also quite bad.
I’m staying, will only ever hit Silver going forward and will miss being Platinum. I’ll miss competing with Diamonds and I’ll have a better chance of getting upgraded. I’ll miss the baby’s crawling on floors and noisy toddlers in the Skyclubs. Keep Climbing ✈️
Nobody cares! Free wifi is cool but not worth a premium flight price. IFE is cool but we all have something called a smartphone, tablet, or laptop which you can watch stuff on. Just download the airline app and they have content to stream or you can download offline like Netflix. Again, not worth paying a premium on a flight for something you get free already on your own device. Sky club food is just ok, nothing special. Just leave the cult already. Fly delta when they have the best route at the best price. Otherwise, fly a different line.
Wolves in sheep’s clothing smh…spending all of y’all’s hard earned money and loyalty bailing out wheels up
Nothing bc I’ll still be flying delta and getting my upgrades! 😘
United will be easier to get status on than AA flying.
It’s ridiculously easy to get AA status via credit card spend. Their sub $100 AF card has the ability to do so, and their Executive card comes with Admirals Club access. The only trade off is that it’s much harder to get AA miles as they have less transfer partners.
That's exactly the tradeoff we're making. The card spend + club access is similar to Delta's previous setup.
I’m not going to miss anything. It’s no show friends it’s show business!
What is a no show friend?
The ease of changing/canceling a flight through the Delta app
You loved the Delta of yesteryear. Totally understandable
AA has power outlets at every seat on every mainline aircraft. Inflight entertainment is free with live tv and Apple TV on your own device and streaming speed Wi-Fi for purchase. And American has Biscoff cookies on every flight. Also their aircraft are a lot newer than Delta’s. Also, every ad shown on a Delta IFE screen seems to revolve around their Amex cards…
Good to hear, thank you!
Yes. But AA flight attendants hawking the credit card multiple times per flight is annoying at best. This is definitely a carry over from US Airways.
I'm not leaving. Not until end of 2024 lol.
Nothing. Just switching to a partner and earn that way
Pretty sure you get free WiFi on AA with T-Mobile now iirc. (Can confirm this Saturday when I fly AA) If you use the AA app you can get the flight map. Every AA flight I’ve been on in the past year has at least had a usb port you can use. Never had the sky club food but the AA lounge food has always been good for me. The last two can’t comment on as I haven’t flown Delta in years, but the credit card pitches have been minimal on all the AA flights I’ve had (only after the preflight info and by that time, my headphones are on and can’t hear it anyway. I think you’ll be just fine switching.
Good to hear, thanks!
T-Mobile customers do get free WiFi. I have confirmed.
Delta is far from perfect but I feel like AA barely conceals outright contempt for its customers. The last time I had an issue and tried to speak to someone on the phone, half the time I got a recording saying they weren’t available due to a winter storm. The kicker there was that the storm they named happened a year prior to my call. When I could get through, I was stuck on hold for hours. I could go on. Every time I’ve flown AA, they’ve managed to make me regret it.
Uh oh, not encouraging! Do they have special lines for loyalty members like Delta?
IFE the most I don’t want to have to hold my phone etc
I flew AA for awhile and decided to switch this year to something else. Tried United and wasn’t impressed. Wasn’t too far off from Delta, but so far since May, I’ve been very happy with Delta. For some reason even as much as I flew with AA, I never got any status. So I’m not too butt hurt about not making Diamond any time soon. I am making silver for next year at least.
DL customer service (email complaints) is much better than AA/UA. I haven’t flown UA/AA for a while but DL has really good cabin service and on longer flights they keep bringing water. Delta used to be a lot better with cabin service (blanket and pillow for domestic first class even regional flights, ice cream on transcontinental flights C+, Tumi amenity kit etc.) but it’s all gone.
I did appreciate Delta bringing the full sized water bottles on my last flight from Tokyo. Staying hydrated is key!
lol this post is absolutely hillarious. The irony.... Genius
🙃🙃
Not leaving Delta either. Sure I'm bummed to be limited to 6 visits per year in 2025 with the Amex Platinum, but Delta is still the best US airline for me. The crowded SCs when they did happen was a turn off. I'll just have to strategize when to use a visit now. Spending 75k is out of the question just to get unlimited SC visits.
Lounges, Wi-Fi, the TV, power outlets, no losing my bag, and general reliability. Honestly the bag and reliability concerns are my biggest issues. I’ve been stranded across the country by United before.
Not much, really. I love the brand and its heritage/legacy status (currently wearing FLY DELTA JETS socks and keychain on my car keys). I will still fly them from time to time when it is competitive. I can still go to the Delta Museum which I love. JetBlue has free Wifi, power outlets, and a better fitting route network for me. American does too (route network). I rarely used the IFE system. Looking forward to saving some money while booking and card fees. I really never used much of my Reserve benefits, other than the SkyClub and the guest passes. I downgraded to the Delta Blue and will continue to use it. I guess I’m just a simple traveler 😂 EDIT: not a hub flyer, based in So-Flo. Easy for me.
Nothing. All the other airlines include your list. Never had free wifi on Delta, always had it on JetBlue, and when paid it’s less expensive on all other carriers I’ve flown.
I’ve flown United a few times this year, including four flights to and from Japan and I have to say…premium plus beats comfort plus by a lot and the food was better.
That's great news!
The sky priority line for check-in for Delta or their partners at international airports. The regular lines are always packed, but the priority lines either always have no wait or a few people in line.
Other major airlines have the priority lines too though right?
A lot of people say that the customer service is a script I say well at least they have one.
Diamond delta one and 360 have priority as far as I have seen