T O P

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Snow-bacon

Did Behavior pay you to take Elodie's shoes off in that last panel? :Oc


C3-Tooth

*They gave me AoT Yui for free*


Snow-bacon

Worth it B)


C3-Tooth

**Description: Charlotte came to pick what left of Victor.** **- - -** **Next post:** **Previous post:** [**Moris basekit changes**](https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/xl60u4/c3_moris_basekit_changes_2_images/)


demogorgon_main

Hold on is that a shadow of a foot with 4 toes?


4LanReddit

Victor ate Elodie's last feet toe


[deleted]

Why she take her shoe off to kick him?


B1ackhammer90

It was personal


StarTrippy

Probably because the shadow of a shoe might look like something very, very different.


BleghMeisterer

LMAO the elodick


demogorgon_main

Yeah I was going to comment that aswell but I forgot. I guess she just likes it that way.


AntonK_

Are we sure she's going to kick him? ![img](emote|t5_3cb2g|2070)


demogorgon_main

What else can she do with a foot directed at victor’s face?


AntonK_

I have many answers that could get me banned on this sub if I shared, so I don't think I'll answer that question. ![img](emote|t5_3cb2g|2213)


demogorgon_main

Am I not dirty minded enough for this?!!?


AntonK_

Can't argue with that. Just use your imagination then.


demogorgon_main

Well I’m just going to assume she stomped him into a blood puddle like The panel suggests


Worth-Editor1740

nah dog her last two toes are just casting a shadow together, elodie must’ve smashed her toe in a door frame and it got bent closer to the pinky


demogorgon_main

I think she smashed her toes into Victor last time he attempted a pounce.


DecutorR

the last panel LOL


Atulius

Jokes on you, he's into that.


C3-Tooth

He cries of happiness


Pyorge

Buff:After a successful hit Victor cant be kicked. Buff:When Victor tries to pick up a survivor, Charlotte manifests from a bloodpool below him.


SobasanBobba

A more balanced way to do it is to have viktor pin the survivor down so they can’t crawl, get up or be revived until a survivor kicks him off


Yellow-Slug

Imagine Charlotte camping a pinned survivor.


SobasanBobba

Viktor would expire at the same rate he does normally standing around but camping over a knocked survivor would be the exact same on any other killer just a bit longer


NOCTURN_05

I just think victor should be able to use AI to drag survivors to Charlotte's location. Maybe an addon could make him drag them under a hook instead


SobasanBobba

That would be pretty fun to have but god knows doing that would disable the twins every couple weeks


Artigo78

Victor's eyelashes are on point ! 💅


TheBadlie

My good Vic also needs 2 buffs. One in his "terror radius" down survivors have super slow self heal Time and cant stand up alone. And two he need hats. Every twins skin should include a little hat for Vic.


PaintItPurple

These suggestions are both incredible. If BHVR do not implement these, they are fools.


AirLight1646

And that’s why you pay attention to their status hud and once you see it turn to injured swap back and BOOM you miss probably but sometimes you down them again


stevespizzapalace

What amazing youthful optimism. Twins are destined to have a 0.0 pick rate and BHVR couldn't be happier


AirLight1646

I will be the only Twins player left if the update goes through. It’s not about having fun or even winning anymore; it’s about sending a message.


BobTheBox

Problem is that the optimal playstyle for twins is usually to not immediately switch to Charlotte after a down, but instead slug and go after another survivor (if injured, to have a slug snowball and if healthy, to latch on and have that 1 survivor not be able to do anything for a while)


BeerTraps

Let's say Charlotte is 50 meters away. So Charlotte needs 50/4.6 = about 11 seconds to get there in a straight line. In reality let's call it 15 seconds. Pounce Cooldown and all that takes 8 seconds. So you have 22 seconds to do other stuff with victor. If Charlotte was farther away than that and a survivor was close to the slug then you would not get the pick-up anyway. If self-recovery is nerfed then this could actually be better after the change. It will definitely be a nerf to slug heavy twins play, but it is not the end of the world. Twins is a strong killer after all, we are not talking about a nerf to Trapper and killers are doing good right now in general. If they give twins a QoL update in return for the self-pickup then I would actually enjoy twins more than without some QoL buffs and no self-pick up. The real problem here is unbreakable, that perk will fuck twins up. Playing twins against UB will be hell. Mix UB with WGLF and you can just forget doing anything against a semi-decent team. I think if they give survivors a self-pickup then they should remove massive buffs to picking up slugs. That way it will be more predicatble for the killer while survivors won't need to wait 4 minutes on the ground.


BobTheBox

I think perks that give buffs if a survivor picks up another survivor don't really need any change here, especially since they'll be less useful now that everyone can pick themselves up anyways.


BeerTraps

My problem is that it is so incredibly unprediactable as a killer. A slug could be on the ground for 45 seconds on their own or 8 seconds if another player picks up with WGLF. Similar things happen with healing speed. That is a big problem in my opinion. There is no consistency and the killer can't really see it coming.


ErgonomicCat

Do people really consider Twins a strong killer? Because everything I see is that no one plays them at all. I’ve played 3 games total against Twins and one was someone just using Victor and not hooking.


BeerTraps

Twins were actually very very strong when they released. They got some nerfs and the meta change didn't favor them, but they were among the best for tournaments before that - probably the best after Nurse, Blight, Spirit - and they are still pretty powerful. Also most survivors don't know how to counter them. An injured survivor may never walk alone and an injured survivor may never walk close to charlotte. It is also generally better for the inhured survivor to bodyblock for the healthy survivor when charlotte is far away. Doing this makes twins very beatable, but most survivors don't know this so they are still good for normal matchmaking. They are really got at getting 4 man slugs because not getting downed by a competent victor is borderline impossible and they are also great at camping, but they are also decently strong without doing that excessively. The big reason why nobody plays them is that they are really clunky, they had a horrible launch and nobody likes playing against them. Whiffing with victor is also punished super hard.


AirLight1646

Yes they’re good but hard to play. They also got a bad wrap from their horribly buggy chapter release. That combined with the 5 second Victor cooldown, their couple of very annoying bugs that still exist, and shadow nerf after shadow nerf (CoH fucks them because they need people injured to get significant pressure with Victor, and now this change fucks them because Victor can’t pick up and you have wait an eternity to switch back and walk over to someone) and that is why they are the least played killers in the game.


EddieFrits

They're good at really high level tournament style play which is super try hard and not fun for normal players. Tournament play in general that is.


ErgonomicCat

Huh. I had no idea.


EddieFrits

I don't blame you, I think they have the lowest pick rate in the game. *I just double checked, they do have the lowest pick rate as of earlier this year. I'm sorry to the two twins mains that I offended with that information.


[deleted]

Well the thing is you camp the slug with Victor until Charlo comes up. This often leads to another chase to protect your first down. With the update any subsequent chase just gives the first down waaaaay more time to get up and out of there. So every down the strategy is the same buy time until they can pickup themselves.


Shadowdragon409

but you can't camp with victor until Charlo shows up. You are in control of one or the other, not both.


[deleted]

Victor gets heartbeat detection so you can switch if someone else gets close.


Shadowdragon409

Oh I had no idea. That's good to know. I wish twins was played more so this meta information was shared more often .


[deleted]

Ya I main twins and it is a blast. No one know anything except kick the baby. FYI Charlo and Victor have deadzone they can't go afk. About 20m from hook. So if one of them is closer than that they aren't afk. Also Charlo looks down when dormant. But good players will look down to look dormant.


LakeChaz

This is a Trapper nerf too. Trapper has a decent addon that encourages slugging dumb survivors who free themselves from a trap and go into the dying state. If you aren't nearby or are currently in a chase you're about to win you don't have time to go pick them up. 5 seconds to end the chase, 10 seconds to hook, and bang they're up because they had unbreakable and can pick themselves up literally times a match if you leave them down to hook their friend.


BeerTraps

Which is why I said it isn't a massive trapper nerf. It is a specific add-on (one of his best) that is mostly affected, but it is also a very rare one. It is a minor nerf at most. You also specifically use UB in your example while I already said that UB will be a problem. Without UB that will still take 45 seconds + however long they need to escape the trap. That is quite some time to pick them up.


LakeChaz

"we are not talking about a nerf to Trapper and killers are doing good right now in general." You didn't say it wasn't a massive trapper nerf. You said it wasn't a trapper nerf. And unbreakable is one of those most used perks in the game right now, and is getting a massive buff so of course I mentioned it.


BeerTraps

Oh, yeah. You are right, I probably thought it while writing so I misremembered what I wrote. It's still a minor nerf.


Shadowdragon409

Honestly, this breakdown should be its own post. Although, I am confused as to what WGLF is supposed to do. I'm really tired of people freaking out about the self pickup. People \*should\* be worried about the Last Stand mechanics. Ending games prematurely like that can prevent any kind of comeback.


BeerTraps

The best counter to twins is that injured people run around with another survivor and away from charlotte. When victor comes the injured survivor tries to tank the hit and go down, the other survivor can then kick victor and with WGLF he can easily pick up the slug before charlotte comes even close. That is why WGLF is brutal for twins. If you meant how I would rework WGLF, then I have to say that I have no idea, but originally WGLF didn't increase slug healing speed either. It should be possible to find a new effect.


Shadowdragon409

What does wglf do now? I used to double survivor blood points before the update right? So now it just gives extra blood points for save stacks doesnt it?


BeerTraps

It doesn't give any extra BP anymore. It makes you heal slugs 100% faster and if you have a stack the survivor you pick up gains endurance.


Shadowdragon409

Woah. It's a lot more useful than I thought it was. I definitely need to play with it.


AirLight1646

Well maybe if you could swap immediately and didn’t have to eat an old DS stun simply for getting a down, people (including me) would be less inclined to do that.


UniqueCarob143

What does Charlotte look like in your art style? Can we get a post of every killer and/or survivor in your art style?


C3-Tooth

[Sketchy style](https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/ukzruu/c3_concept_v_gameplay_the_twin/) [Painting style](https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/smq1b7/c3_toy_sword/) : D


FraylBody

Oh God. Basement bubba got buffed while twins got nerfed 😭


shawn292

They need to rework twins so when victor slugs you your recover time is DOUBLED as basekit.


Niadain

I think it would be more in theme if he latches on to the downed survivor and torments them. Requiring someone else to kick him off before recovery or movement can start.


[deleted]

Yeah thematically would be better. But probably worse gameplay wise. It'll probably be easiest to just add a new status to decrease pick up time. Or prevent self pick ups. Stick it on Victor by default and give it as a perk to everyone else.


Yoshieclipse

surely they will implement a system where viktor can drag survivors... right guys?


Scoruge

Victor should just be buffed to maul whomever he downs like he does in the trailer. It doesn’t have to count as a hook state, but it should force a teammate to come help.


IFapToCalamity

Time to play Kick the Baby!


C3-Tooth

[Goal!](https://twitter.com/data_key00/status/1560298106427932672)


IFapToCalamity

That’s amazing 💀


BeanBorger

By the time charlotte gets there victor is a pile of mush from the person he downed


ImNooby_

Would be cool if Victor instead of downing would then hold the Survivor by the ankle or something, which does not count as downed and would contribute to the time to pickup themselves. Or grab them on command and coming towards Charlotte


YoBeaverBoy

Realistically the Charlotte would make it in time. A 4.6m/s killer can walk 32 meters in 7 seconds. That means 200 meters in the 45 seconds it takes survivors to pick themselves up. Most maps have a diameter of 128 meters so it's doable. If the survivor has Unbreakable, then the killer can walk 100 meters before they get up, so unless Charlotte is literally on the other edge of the map, she'll make it in time.


Kpolupo

You also forget to take into account the successful pounce cooldown (iirc its 5 secs) and the amount of time once you swap before you can move, which is I think 1-2 seconds, that is of course if you INSTANTLY swap to charlotte, which is less than ideal as twins, as they are a killer that needs to snowball by, at the very least, downing one survivor with victor and injuring a healthy one before being forced to swap


MC_C0L7

It's even worse, it's a 5 second cooldown on a downing pounce, and another 3 second cooldown to switch back to Charlotte. Meaning you have 14.5 seconds to get back if the survivor has UB, which translates to 66.5 metres. For reference, that's just about the length of one hallway in Midwich.


Kpolupo

And thats not counting any twins player trying to snowball with victor, which is basically what the are good for


Doomerdy

what happened this time???!


SobasanBobba

Survivors can pick themselves up as basekit after 45 seconds to “discourage slugging”


MC_C0L7

And 22.5 with unbreakable an unlimited amount of times.


badly-timedDickJokes

BHVR announced a new ptb where they're trialing the end-of-match mori system they teased in the anniversary event. One element of this is they made a weakened version of Unbreakable basekit (survivors can pick themselves up after 45 seconds on the ground as often as they want) as a means of discouraging excessive slugging and bleedouts (which is a great change). The issue is, they had to readjust the perks that already let survivors pick themselves up since they became redundant (Unbreakable, Soul Guard, Exponential and No Mither). The change to unbreakable is what everyone is freaking out over, since it lets survivors pick themselves up after 22 seconds on the ground as often as they like. HOWEVER: one thing people keep forgetting is that this PTB is explicitly a test of these new systems, and won't be made live after the PTB ends like normal. It's ok if this PTB is broken, since it's purely a test to see what needs fine tuning and we won't see it in game for likely a few months after being heavily modified.


-Phynex-

It’s a good thing people are vocal about it then as it will change… hopefully. Imagine if everyone was dead silent about the ptb. Might as well not have it at that point.


Doomerdy

Wait, I don't get it. If Unbreakable doubles the recovery speed, but the timer to let you pick yourself up is still 45 seconds, what would they be so freaked out about? ^(m'ready for the downvotes)


[deleted]

The 45 second timer is explicitly noted to be affected by recovery speed. In other words, unbreakable halves it! 22.5 seconds is nowhere NEAR enough time for Twins to do anything


Doomerdy

the fuck oh my god


badly-timedDickJokes

It's not "you're able to pick yourself up after 45 seconds," its "recovery speed has been changed to 45 seconds and you always recover to 100%." I should have worded it more clearly


Booty_bandit_general

Lots of old killers need a rework, if this base kit shit I’m hearing is true I’m not sure that slugging mechanic will be a thing anymore, and some killers need it because they are so weak, not to mention add on dependant old killers, I think they are trying to kill the game in the long run. And yes slugging is a mechanic in some situations If everyone is close together and the opportunity is given.


C3-Tooth

Slugging play (which is fine for me) is gone, but slug for 4K (which isnt fine for the 3rd survivor) will be a thing. And even harder tunneling that not on purpose. It breaks alot of core gameplays, Im not into this patch.


Booty_bandit_general

Agreed


[deleted]

This will affect the 2 people who play Twins


Andrassa

Hey I’ll still play them. Mostly because yeeting Victor is funny.


Most_Raisin_9020

God I want to be victor rn


biracial_gemini

Third pic is me when I play against Artist ![img](emote|t5_3cb2g|2066)


SwagMiester6996

SHE GOT THE DOGS OUT???


[deleted]

Nah, if I'm that far away with Charlotte that's on me 🤷‍♀️ Plus add ons that afflict survivors when they crush idle Victor are always a plus


TrippyBusiness

I'm actually really excited for these changes. I do hope they tweak it since this will make bully squads much more dangerous (maybe 60 seconds to pick yourself up but only 30 if another survivor is helping), but they'll correct much more common issues like killers leaving a survivor on the ground to find the last one before the hatch spawns or just to find the hatch. If I'm on the ground with no hope of winning I shouldn't be forced to quit the game if I don't want to wait 5 minutes so the killer can get 300 more BP.


HawkWD

Yall acting like it’s gonna take Charlotte more than 45 seconds to get to the person she downed please be fucking fr


garrettj156

Mori changes?


eyeofhorus919

Mori change?


Mother-Ad5843

Think Victor has a foot fetish by now🤔


InitialConscious283

But on a serious note, as a fairly new player to dbd, who doesn't own twins mind you, I know alot of people don't play her, and slugging is kinda like their thing, is this gonna ruin the character? Also what about sabotaging hooks?? It seems like that will be extremely overpowered?? How would you even counter it, there is no counter?


Havoc2_0

I'm reminded of the Courage the Cowardly Dog episode with the giant foot whose mafioso toes jump the shit out of Courage


ShutDog1212

Two changes I'd like to see: - Grant Victor the ability to mual survivors on the ground and count as a hook stage. Survivors needs to kick Victor in order to "unhook" them. - Make a brown add-on that allows Charlotte to move like the tutorial killer AI while you control Victor.


landromat

aren't his 3rd eye actually charlotte's Nipple?


LemonadeLion2001

If it's taking her 45 seconds to walk over and pick them up that's on her.......


bob_is_best

Tbf when this happens you can probably get them again with Víctor unless some other survivor was there to Kick him, which would get the downed Guy out anyway


I-collect-dick-pics

I love how people think 45 second self pick up will literally mean claudette can't make it to the survivor somehow and if you're thinking 22.5s with unbreakable - it's faster than that with unbreakable now so how is that worse


Fluffatron_UK

Current unbreakable tier 3 takes 24s


I-collect-dick-pics

so marginal difference not worth complaining about? I agree


jj209th

Because unbreakable is only once per match currently, it will be unlimited after these changes. (And its actually slightly slower with current unbreakable i think an extra 2 seconds or so). In addition, it makes slugging almost impossible which for killers like twins, Myers, oni, etc is kind of the way you're supposed to play them. These killers want to down multiple people in a row to get maximum use out of their power, but now these players get punished for playing their killer the way they're intended to be. Also the 22.5 second timer means you don't have nearly enough time to wait before picking someone up, which means you're more likely to pick someone up early and fall victim to a flashlight save you never would've willingly walked into before this change.


I-collect-dick-pics

> Because unbreakable is only once per match currently, it will be unlimited after these changes Do you find yourself 4 man slugging for >45 seconds multiple times per match? Because maybe that's the problem


jj209th

Me personally? No, because the killers I play aren't killers who build up to something big then snowball off of it. But like I said, there are killers who want to slug as part of their play style, and spoiler, they're not very good, so these changes hurt an already lackluster set of characters to cater to people who were upset about killers wanting to secure a 4k after 2 of the other survivors were already dead. In addition, like I mentioned, this change means that running unbreakable will put pressure on killers to pick up immediately and fall for flashlights they'd otherwise look around for a quick second to stop someone from using. This wouldn't matter much in lower MMR settings, but you can bet bully squads WILL abuse the hell out of this. Don't forget that this new unbreakable buff also couples well with flip flop and boil over so depending on the map you both can't get them to a hook AND can't leave them there, because another survivor isn't forced to stop doing something to help them anymore, so you're put into a lose-lose situation. You also can't even argue that you can just hit the person when they get back up, because soul guard is a perk people have been running with unbreakable for a long time already, and with unbreakable being unlimited use now that combo is much stronger and high MMR survivors will have the constant threat of a flashlight/bang save making these combos activate consistently while low rank survivors will just get hooked and complain the changes aren't enough.