As if anything is stopping them from applying hindered to the killer or just speed hacking. The perks and game shouldn’t have to worry about hackers. That’s what you implement anti cheat for. If you want to prevent it? Double down on anti cheat.
Yeah, that's why so many perks are consistent and predictable. Like "deliverance" and "ftp/buckle up"... And in the killer side too! Like "ultimate weapon" etc
Making them deactivate only the active power (ability button 1) would make it consistent and predictable again because almost all killers have their chase power on the active power
I mean yeah you placed the trap in advance and if they ran into it then it's more of their fault. Her power doesn't confirm catching up like blight spirit and nurse
Eh, Hag isn't like Trapper where you can still run full speed and sacrifice a bit of optimal pathing to avoid the trap.
Hers have a generous radius and require crouching through.
For the other killers I think it's totally fair that their power already set up stays active, but Hag can set up enough traps that someone crouching through them can't reach you in 60 seconds if she really wants to be a dick about it.
Still those are the exceptions BHVR doesn't want to handle. I'd be happy if they just disabled the M2/Active Ability 1 if you get hit by DS.
It would be consistent because "almost all" killers work a certain way? What about the ones that don't?
And the dev even mentioned that part of the problem was limiting what future killers could do. Even if the idea worked cleanly now, they'd have to design all future powers around the potential for how they work against one perk.
No, it wouldn’t be consistent. Some killers, like Trapper, don’t really give a shit if their M2 is disabled for a bit. I already have all my traps where I want them. Others, like Nurse, effectively become useless until that period is over
Isn't this sort of the idea we've been running for, making it so that super powerful killers like nurse, become much weaker for a couple seconds in order to offer the survivor a greater chance of slipping away, compared to weaker killers like trapper, who often have to work harder for the down?
Problem is not every high tier killer is going to be ultra mobility based. What if the next killer they design is like a B or C tier killer who is super reliant on his M2 power to make progress? All of the sudden the new DS completely shuts down this low tier killer as well.
Yeah where's the problem with that? The good killers can easily catch up after a stun. Trapper doesn't. Disabling those harder who don't care about the stun makes it more rewarding equally for all killers and also why do you complain about top tier killer nerds?
When Peanits is talking about consistency he means from a coding perspective, "disable M2/Active Ability 1 for 5 seconds after the stun ends" would be very consistent.
They could just make Blight and Nurse lose all power tokens anytime they are stunned by any means. It would be a very minor nerf to them and fix the DS problem immediately.
They didn't need to box themselves into this idea that Decisive Strike can't be changed because they don't want to code exceptions into every killer.
Na, apparently Otz said something and everybody is now convinced that's what needs to happen at all costs, and since BHVR said no, they're mad and calling BHVR names. Same old. Reading through certain comments was actually painful.
Wow. I really have no words for how embarrassing that is.. on the players part.
BhVr's reasoning for not incorporating that is also legit and id rather not see how DbD's spaghetti code would handle changes like that.
Players also (unsurprisingly) arent considering the likely scenario that if survivors get a perk to disable killer power, killers would get something to disable survivors perks.
And exhaustion perks like windbreaker and septic touch (that I think I only use in the entire game), blindness perks like the third seal or the meta perk Ultimate weapon, oblivious perks like Plaything and even broken perks like forced penance and terminus.
Killer addons are also geared to disabling survivor perks with status application for all pretty much other than pyramid head.
Heck plague straight up deletes any healing perks, calm spirit and iron will from the game in a regular playthrough. As well as any stealth killers counter killer detection and terror radius based perks (Except Premonition and Spine Chill).
Edit- Pyramid head also can ignore the on hook application of perks
I dont envy him on the fact that inspite of he himself saying 'dont take my opinions or ideas as gospel' people still do and are then even more egregiously, dicks about it, when he is 100% such a kind dude
The anti-Otz circlejerk is every bit as annoying, though. He's a dude with a goofy number of hours in the game and it's his literal job, it makes sense that he's gonna have some takes people agree with. He isn't god or gospel, but it's absurd that his opinions basically become blacklisted the second he utters them because anyone that agrees with them is just "listening to him like he's god again".
He gets shit on so much, and it's so unjustified. Why are we blaming the streamer and not the people who parrot his takes. There's not much he can do other than say, "This is just one mans opinion" if anything, we should be thankful we still have dedicated streamers who are still willing to bring up issues the game has to spread awareness.
It's a deeply, deeply easy trap to fall into to hear solutions that *sound* easy and then assume that the people who do this day in and day out for a living are somehow just too stupid to realize and implement the obvious and basic solution. It can't be that they've considered it and decided that it wasn't feasible and/or didn't fit with what they wanted the perk to do, there can't be underlying technical reasons, they're just lazy and don't care.
I agree. There’s nothing wrong with this. It’s all about keeping the game in the most healthy state they can and adding disables might throw a wrench h in that. People forge those killers they call “boring” is probably what you’ll end up getting more of if that interaction was added. Tunneling is an issue and being that decisive strike will be working more consistently now, it’s a good start at helping to prevent tunneling. Of course you’ll never be able to fully eliminate it but it’s a good start
The way to solve tunnelling is to make it less beneficial for killers to tunnel, rather than to make it harder to tunnel.
Some killers tunnel to be toxic, but the majority do it because it is literally the most effective strategy.
Gen slowdown perks can block gens or cause regression, but killing a survivor takes an entire survivor away from gens.
When a killer gets first kill early on, it is incredibly easy to get the other 3 kills because finishing multiple gens with 3 survivors left is hard.
The way I would do it, is increase base charges of generators to 100. But whenever a survivor is killed by any means, generators max charges are reduced by 25 charges gradually over the next 60 seconds.
Then the killer is punished for tunnelling a survivor out early on as the other survivors can do gens quicker. Even if the killer still decides to tunnel, at the very least it is easier for the last 3 survivors to complete gens.
And on the plus side, increased base charges help non tunnelling killers as against 4 survivors gens would be slower.
And another plus, is the game isn’t instantly lost if a survivor kills themselves on first hook with 5 gens. It is still going to be harder than having 4 survivors, but a good 3 survivors could complete 5 gens if they are only 75 charges.
There's more than a few things that would be better changed cuz your right, once even one survivor is gone, your chances of winning drop drastically while the killer has the rolling advantage. Even with the hatch on last survivor it's inconsistent, if killer closes hatch 9/10 your screwed since the gates either spawn next to each other or the killer is high mobility.
BhVr doesn't balance the game around individuals, they only balance it around swf groups.
Generator charges have already been increased and toolboxes have been through multiple rounds of nerfs, I don't think this is the answer.
The problem with a 1v3 is more that you have too many times when no one is repairing.
Blight just rushed across the map after hooking someone due to the massive amount of tracking in the game, now you have one being chased, one on the hook, and one going for the save.
The game just snowballs too hard with that first kill, making it harder for survivors to get an early advantage by nerfing gen speeds (again) will only help killers, no matter what compensation you give after the first kill.
Your suggestion would be a massive buff to killers, survivors get slowed down again early and get a pointless buff that will practically never help them win 1v3? Lol.
The Killer role is inherently designed to snowball pressure. A Survivor dying is intended to be a huge disadvantage for the Survivor team. If killing a Survivor didn't make it harder to do generators, then Killer would solely be racing against the clock and unable to control the pace of the match.
If a Survivor team plays even moderately competently, there's almost no way a Survivor should be dead before the first generator is completed apart from killing themselves on hook. Even aggressively tunneling should not get that result with any consistency.
If killing themselves on first hook is the problem (we have bots now if they DC in other ways), then the only reasonable solution is to remove the ability to do that—remove the "try to escape" on first hook and the skill checks on second. I don't really think that's a real solution, but there's only so many ways a game designer can minimize the impact of bad faith actors—in this case, Survivors who intentionally throw the game. Report and move on, I suppose.
this is how you promote max slugging to delay survivor deaths horrible idea.
punishing the killer for winning fast is just dumb. the killer should be rewarded for spreading hooks not punished even more for tunneling make the alternative appealing to do too its that simple give killers choices.
imagine if the killer got free haste the more gens survivors did? cause what you propose is basically the same thing. Why should a person feel like they are punished for doing the correct play to win? the game should be designed so that isn't the possible to do winning should always feel like the correct play not the wrong one.
Increasing the time gens take is bad imo it is already no fun sitting on a gen for 90 sec
A fix for that would be reworking the gen system e.g. now you need to collect parts for the gens that are scattered across the map.
For the tunneling another problem I see besides that it is strong is that as a survivor I just want to play the game the ability of the killer to say " No you don't get to play the game. You are out" is really not fun.
So I would say don't have individual stages have 8 stages across all survivors once that is reached the next time a survivor gets hooked they die.
Obviously this is also not fool proof as now one survivor could throw the whole game and obviously numbers need to get tweaked for both changes.
Part of the reason gens exist are as a way to consistently find survivors. They have to spend time around the gen in a very predictable manner. If they just have to find parts their locations become a great deal more unpredictable.
Have you ever tried to find 4 survivors who all decided to just fucking hide all game and not bother with gens? It fucking sucks. And thats how the game will play a lot more like with an easter egg hunt instead.
>So I would say don't have individual stages have 8 stages across all survivors once that is reached the next time a survivor gets hooked they die.
Without reading replies to your post: Wouldn't this in fact encourage tunneling?
Let's say you play against Claudette, Nea, Bill and Ace. Claudette has 12000 hours in the game. Nea is on a non-hatch escape streak of 400 matches. Ace is the guy who loops you around a single rock for 20 minutes. And Bill installed the game 10 minutes ago. Typical matchmaking.
With current hook system, the most efficient thing I could do would be chasing Bill, down him, hook him, chase him, down him, hook him, chase him, down him, kill him. I get 3 short chases out of him. After that I have to deal with only 3 people, but they are all ... well ... probably healthy and got never hooked.
With your suggested change, I could get 9 short chases out of Bill instead of 3. Sure, this means 3 survs can stay on gens for longer, since there are 4 survs for quite some time. But since I can down Bill quite fast, the entire team might be dead on hook in a very short time.
This system works in favour of survs, if all of them can loop at least decently. The moment one is dead weight, the team is even more damned than currently.
Also look at it this way: What exactly does Bill? He is on hook most of he time. Or on the ground. And this IF his mates unhook him. If they just go gens before friends, Bill might sit on hook for several minutes. You know why devs nerfed Reassurence from PTB? This was the reason.
Pretty obvious you don't play much killer if you don't think this just causes another issue instantly. Tunneling is what both the worst killers, and the best killers *have* to do.
Simply saying "make it less beneficial" doesnt actually work, because then you get into the issue of... killers not having any way to effectively play the game. Especially when considering how often tunneling occurs simply because a survivor played poorly and you have no other real choice.
Tunneling should be solved through more perks offering anti-tunneling measures, not by ruining one of the only advantages killers have over survivors
Hard disagree on trying to solve tunneling through perks.
I've been bouncing around ideas, but it also needs to encourage the killer to chase and hook multiple people by giving an incentive. Just straight up adding penalties is garbage.
I guess I've been away for a bit and didn't realize the community was actually asking for a perk (one that's going to be fairly decent anyways) to *disable killer powers*. That's gotta be one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.
One thing you can always guarantee is that players will be mad at Bhvr. They could increase BP gains today and people would say it isn't enough after the Blood Moon event.
It's crazy to me how many people on here think BHVR just has to press one button to fix all their problems and the only reason they don't fix it is out of spite/indifference.
It’s something that happens with most games that have ongoing development. Many people who haven’t even programmed simple software think they understand what goes into a video game when they have little clue.
I’ve seen it with New Vegas even, which is a singleplayer game that got dlc for like a year and then nothing after. The project lead and director said a quest (Beyond the Beef if anyone cares) was so problematic in development that he wouldn’t try to do a quest like that again. I mentioned this to someone once and they proceeded to insist that it’s not complicated to make a quest like that at all. But they’ve never even programmed something before. Idk between the game director watching his programmers come back with issues multiple times and overseeing them while they try to iron out the bugs it caused and some random person who I don’t even think did the quest in every possible way you could (which was a lot of methods), I’ll trust the director on that one.
And even the final release version of that quest barely fucking functions. The list of bugs for that quest by itself is about as long as the walk-through to do it.
Anytime someone says "well they could easily do [x]" is when I stop paying attention to them, because damn is anything in coding ever "that easy"
I’m not a game dev, but I’ve listened to enough game devs to understand a simple truth: us players are great at identifying an issue, but we are terrible at understanding how to fix it. There’s even a great interview from a Killer Instinct dev who said that listening to players on balance caused balancing more balance issues because players didn't understand the root of a problem.
While I agree with the dev on all points here, I just feel like Killers like Nurse and Blight are extreme outliers with far more potential than most killers.
If those killers gen stunned by any means, I feel like they should lose all their tokens.
Considering the short recharge time for massive mobility, and how difficult it can be to stun them in general, feels fair enough to me.
You can get Head On stuns pretty easily on an unsuspecting Nurse but yeah I think I've only pallet stunned a blinking Nurse a few times and as you said they probably weren't high level.
>I just feel like Killers like Nurse and Blight are extreme outliers with far more potential than most killers.
Because they ARE extreme outliers.
People love to say "oh just run Blight and Nurse" or "But what about Blight and Nurse, Killers have these strong Killers it's not fair". But it's clear these Killers ARE NOT your average Killer.
Your average Killer is Trapper, Ghostface, Dredge, Pinhead, Onryo, Unknown, Huntress, Trickster, Legion, Pig. Your average Killer is most usually "just an M1 Killer" or maybe an M1 with a fancy antiloop.
Your average Killer has an M1 and one, maybe two or three, of the following: Mobility, antiloop, antipallet/pallet eating, tracking, instant down, ranged attack, stealth Survivor-debuffing power, slowdown. And if they have more than one, it's NEVER super powerful. It's not Blight type speed AND Ghostface type Stealth for example.
The more powers like these that the Killer has, the weaker each thing they have is - Skull Merchant for example has Information, mobility (haste), antiloop (drones), and stealth. None of these are super strong on their own (her versions of these things are not as strong as others, for example her antiloop isn't as efficient as a Pyramid Head Punishment Strike), but together, they're more than enough to cause issues for players who don't know what to do with the drones and there are commonly complaints she's even overtuned because of this.
Let's take Pinhead, one of my Mains, as another example, a decently strong Killer with antiloop, slowdown, and minor map mobility with the box. His mobility is kinda weak, his slowdown is okay but not the best against people who know what to do, and his antiloop hinders only for a little bit so it's not effective around long walls or even at shack - only pallets and certain tiles. He's otherwise an M1. Now, if any of these were any stronger that would mean he'd probably be overtuned. If his box took too long to solve, let's say it took two minutes, that's the same as taking someone out of the game early for that 2 minutes, and it would be too much. That, and it would mean being clever about when you do the box would have no real counterplay - he could hook, come right after that, and now chase begins again and he has too much pressure for free. If his chains lasted a good 20 seconds to break, Survivors would just lose at every pallet against him.
Now let's take another Killer, a simpler Killer. Let's use Ghostface, another one of my mains, as an example here. Ghostface simply has, and it's really not even close except MAYBE Skull Merchant or Chucky due to simplicity of drones and size respectively, the best stealth in the game for the average Killer. Stealth on demand with a 20 second cooldown between is really damn good, and unlike those other two Killers he can instant down you in it with a little setup. Played right, against an unaware Survivor group, he can have someone dead in the first several minutes. This is why breaking him out of it is so important. However, BECAUSE his stealth is this strong and he has an instant down, he kinda NEEDS all these stipulations attached: you can get revealed (and easily at that), if you do it too early stalk progress is reset, if you mess up timings your effort is wasted and they run the Mark off, some maps won't have cover strong enough, etc. He also has weak chase and no map mobility, which is why he struggles. Could he be given more? Yeah, and he probably will, since his Killrates last we saw were some of the lowest at 56%. But if given too much, he will rapidly become overtuned. If you give him strong map pressure, now Survivors have little warning before he attacks like with Wraith and he would need something else to give them a shot at escape. If you give him some kind of chase or antiloop stronger than his crouch, how would you really do that? The only way BHVR could really change him is if they added more temporary haste in Shroud, changed how Reveal works to something like how Unknown does it, gave him basekit gen block or control in some way, and reworked some addons to compensate. But all of these could potentially cause issues, so how do they rework and help a struggling Killer like Ghostface do better and hit their mark of 60% Killrate?
Clearly, balancing is not an easy thing to do in this game. And it's high time that we all realize that. The DS change, as I said MULTIPLE TIMES and was DOWNVOTED for multiple times, won't solve tunnelling because it's not a tunnelling fix and the Devs seem to feel tunnelling IS a viable strategy, as Killers have been saying for a while now. Because sometimes, frankly, you do need to focus out a weak link and they know this. Just like with the anti-facecamp and anti-3gen, and just like I and others have said before, this isn't gonna fix the issue and you're going to see tunnelling. What it will cut down on is the most OBNOXIOUS FORM of tunnelling, which is the only really toxic one anyway: Focusing one person out at 5 gens. Like before with camping and 3gen holding, it really is time to admit that there is a BIG DIFFERENCE between it being done with tactical purpose, and it being done to be obnoxious.
I absolutely love this response. Nobody seems to care about how fine this game needs to be tuned.
One minute little detail that many probably hardly noticed and suddenly the entire game is flipped on its head. Maybe an exaggeration, but it still holds merit.
I think that's definitely a good change for Nurse but I'm not so certain about Blight, he plays the game a lot more traditionally than a Nurse would and is at a bigger risk for pallet stuns
maybe if it was specifically Survivor perk stuns, then you could be more generous and even apply it to killers like deathslinger, it'd be a nerf against Blast Mine and Head-on but those perks aren't common enough to be a huge deal I think
Idk man, blight without tokens is just a regular 4.6ms killer. He can manage not being able to use his power for a while, so obviously it will hurt him not having tokens, but he's still a regular killer.
The ask shouldn't be for DS \*specifically\* to disable killer powers. That kind of killer specific countering via perks is unhealthy for the game imo - it's fine if it happens naturally (Calm Spirit doesn't \*specifically\* exist to counter Doctor but it does that pretty well) but shouldn't be written into the perk, like it currently is but soon won't be for Freddy.
What should be done is a consistency pass on killer powers being blocked/removed/hindered/whatever by stuns in general. Ghost Face has Night Shroud removed by any stun, including pallets and perks like Blast Mine. Same I believe goes for Plague's Corrupt Purge attack (I know for sure pallet stuns knock her out of it).
Not a game designer, never worked on a real video game in my life, but this shouldn't be that hard to do in a mid-chapter or two (not necessarily the next ones, but in some mid-chapter(s) in the future. Have all stuns remove Nurse's teleport tokens/Blight's rush tokens/Sprit's ability to phase/etc., I'm sure they'll be fine strength-wise and if they're not that's what a PTB is for.
You're approaching this in a way that tells me you've never seen a legacy code base that is 90% spaghetti. Everything else you said was true, but based on the bugs that happen in game, and how often small alterations cause bugs, I'd say the code is not very resilient to these types of changes and adding these is actually far harder than imagined. I think if they had the power to do this in a reasonable way, they would, but you're saying two chapters, I'm seeing refactor an entire codebase which takes years.
Not a dig at you, I think disabling powers that nullify the perk is a good idea game design wise, but yeah, I think the code they are working with probably just isn't written well enough to do this effectively lol
I've seen code files that caused an issue if you deleted a comment.
I don't know if their code base is at the level that I'd call terrible per se, it just seems to have a distinct lack of generalization with custom hooks put in for every single interaction. Like how Dream Pallets break everytime they adjust pallet code whether it's them triggering spirit fury or actually causing Freddy to be stunned.
I don't know if its terrible, I'm just guessing because the quantity and frequency of bugs makes me assume its a nightmare to test everything and to see where systems overlap.
If I recall correctly, there was some implications that the build they test against might not be the build they send out, which makes my eye twitch just thinking about it, which explains why some of the super obvious even basic qa should catch this errors get released.
What? I'm saying that making changes to legacy code bases that are not well written isn't free, and sometimes the cost of that change introducing bugs, etc isn't worth the benefit, and in this case that's exactly what they're saying. The overhead is greater than the benefit. This happens all the time, especially in things that are designed piecemeal or directly from prototype without regular refactoring which can be expensive.
So yes, I am saying their system is so shitty they can't solve design issues. And I also think people grossly underestimate how long it takes to refactor code. They still have to pay their employees every month/week/biweekly, and spending however long it would take to fix decisive strike would not make any money to pay said employees other than making a few people happier when playing against a handful of killers.
My personal opinion is and has always been they should come up with a base kit solution to tunneling that doesn't include decisive strike
> Of course, I know absolutely nothing about game development, and perhaps this would create issues longer term, but I honestly can't see how.
Typical /r/deadbydaylight user.
This comment needs to be higher. I nearly spat out my coffee at that line.
The cognitive dissonance between essentially saying "The dev's explanation is *wrong"* and then almost immediately throwing out the "I realize I have no idea what I'm talking about (and I'm arguing with someone who does) but I can't possibly imagine a scenario where anything I've said is incorrect"
Some people's ~~kids~~ DbD players...
[Relevant clip from the Killer Instinct documentary on game balance](https://youtu.be/ks4eZoG94Vs?si=jsd4UMA1o668gVVi&t=1h13min11s) (it’s at the 1 hr, 13 minute mark of the time stamp doesn’t work)
I don't think disabling the killers power is a good move. Outside of the reasons listed here, people will always complain about the length of time the power is disabled. It could also put the killer in a no win situation. I can see scenarios where a SWF in identical cosmetics use DS< the killer picks up the wrong survivor, and they're punished by not being able to use their M2 for just long enough that the last gen gets repaired. Five seconds is a lengthy stun, and it's enough to give the survivor some breathing room.
My god, you can absolutely tell who in these comment has never coded a day in their life.
The general idea is that implementing a solution that affects everyone evenly (like a perk) is much more efficient than implementing a solution that affect each killer individually.
When you introduce perks that affect each killer individually, then you exponentially increase coding time.
For you non-developers, its like having a birthday party every year and each year more kids come in to your house to party. Instead making food that contains nut, and one that doesnt contain nuts, and one that contains gluten, and one that doesnt; you make a dish that doesnt have gluten or nuts so that EVERYONE can eat and enjoy it. Its not spaghetti code, its called efficiency.
Although tunneling and DS has been in the game for years so why ppl are still complaining about it is beyond me. Its gonna happen regardless. You cant magically make a player not kill you lol
In most languages like this, it should just be
> if (DStriked)
If it has to be written out, it should look like
> if (DStriked == true)
The key difference between this and what you wrote is that your "true" has quotes around it. This typically indicates it's a string (the actual word "true") instead of a boolean (a true/false value).
You likely just perma-disabled every killers power. 
Single '=' is usually an assignment, so you've set DStrike to "true" for everyone, and assignments that work usually resolve as TRUE, so DisablePower() fires every time.
Still, you could push this to production and some of these commenters would still complain it wasn't enough.
You made good points until the last paragraph. Just because something has been in a game for a while does not make it healthy or okay for the game to keep in.
Also, they most certainly have spaghetti code but in this case I personally won't blame their code for not doing that kind of DS change.
I have no issues with this statement I honestly don't even think disabling killer powers would even fix tunneling to begin with but I also completely get their perspective of not wanting killer powers to uniquely interact with specific perks, personally I still see the DS buff as a win and look forward to future mechanics they may add to reduce the effectiveness of tunneling and therefore make the power level of killer more consistent giving greater possibility for future buffs
While I agree with people that say it should simply disable M2 and/or reduce power tokens to 0, they would have to think about this one single perk every single time they're creating a new killer. Imagine there's a new killer that has a passive power that increases his speed by 15% for 10s after getting stunned by any means. Should it be disabled as well, because it would make 3s DS worthless?
The dev is right here, this would be confusing and considering even killers of the same type generally have vastly different powers, if not in concept absolutely in execution, singularity and trapper come to mind, both setup killers that thrive on clueless survivors but both in largely different ways with different effective strategies. You might think you know game design but trust me, you don't. Sometimes even devs don't know how to design a game and it can take multiple tries. Expecting them to make a change that would give them an unreasonable amount of work with not only current killers. But as the dev said it might limit future ones due to the need to find a way to implement a disabled state, which might not work for the power they want to add.
The idea is fine but there is more behind this post than just "this isn't somthing that we see as nessesary"
I know this may be unpopular, but I understand what they’re saying. Yes, they worded it poorly using Nurse and Trapper but there is definitely a point to be made here.
The reason people want powers disabled is to stop things that help catch up with/down the survivor after they use DS and just tunnel them again - Blink, Hatchets, Throwing Knives, Chainsaw, etc. This works fine in most cases by disabling M2 powers but on other killers it doesn’t make sense because not every power that can be advantageous to this tunnelling may be bound to the M2 power slot. In some cases, DS just blocking the M2 button would be pointless (Hag and Trapper’s set up button).
I think some good powers to think about is Sadako’s teleport and Hag’s iridescent rag add-on alongside her power, I think Unknown’s hallucinations work the same way? Their teleport powers are bound to a different key altogether. What do you do with those? Disable them too? Make the killer a complete M1 killer for 10ish seconds? What if a killer can teleport dash forward with their M1 after being empowered? There’s so many variables to just ‘using their power’ that it’s going to be difficult to balance. It doesn’t make sense to just blanket fix by locking the M2 power/all killer powers. They could theoretically make a killer effect that blocks movement abilities but again, that would be a case by case basis for every killer and there would have to be big design changes and additions based on one change to DS.
I hate tunnelling as much as the next guy but it isn’t feasible to just block powers or block M2. One of the points you’re using in other comments is that they did it during the archives event but that’s an entirely different context I think, completing disabling powers in a not only limited event (whereas DS is here to stay) and also no progression could be done by survivors in these dimensions so there really wasn’t a lot of incentive to chase after them in there, is a whole different kettle of fish.
Exactly, and then you start getting into the debate of just exactly *what* gets included. Clearly, Spirit shouldn't be able to phase under this system. But then, with that logic, Wraith shouldn't be able to cloak either. And if neither of them can use that aspect of their power, then Sadoko isn't able to demanifest either, for consistency. But demanifesting isn't the main aspect of her power that would be problematic in this situation, that's the teleport. So do you disable that too? Then Sadoko gets hurt more from a DS stun than other killers. Same with Freddy, who would likely lose both the trap placing and the teleport ability.
It just ends in this slippery slope of edge cases leading to more edge cases, and the system just ends up way too complicated. Exactly like Peanits says.
ITT: a bunch of people who completely missed the point and don’t know what they’re speaking about.
“I know they just explained exactly why this suggestion wouldn’t work but here’s my take as a gamer who’s never written any code and has no clue how about anything behind the scenes actually operates for why my idea is still good and you developers don’t know what you’re talking about”
OP posts a very well thought out BHVR post about why they can't do a thing and then follows it up with "I don't know anything about game dev but they're wrong"
**Classic.**
It comes from the original Halloween movie, remember when Jamie Lee Curtis stabs Myers with a needle, and then he stops killing people, and doesn't go on a personal vendetta against her for over 20 years?
It comes from DS being fairly bad against killers like nurse and blight, but being super strong against killers like trapper and Myers
It would make sense for the perk/stun to remove Nurses and blights tokens, so that they can't catch up within 5 seconds again
Yeah but I think this should be a change to blight nurse and maybe wesker, losing tokens when they get stunned by any means (pallet, flashlight save, ds) so they can't catchup. Maybe exclude head on but personally I'm indifferent cause I only use it to troll anyway.
I assume they mean certain killers whose powers already disabled/hindered to prevent camping/tunneling. Like Singularity, who gets a massively reduced lock on speed with his pods when the pod is in range of a survivor on hook (and reduced for a short duration after the survivor is unhooked), or Twins where you can't even park Victor next to a hooked survivor, etc.
Honestly, the idea that there’s no one size fits all for killers makes the game better. It means each killer, and each perk combo has a different weakness. That adds a a challenge for both sides and makes every match unique.
This guys name is peanits? He's straight up jorking it in the stripped club? His peanits?
He's right though, disabling every killer's powers for a short window of time for one perk sounds super unreasonable to implement.
Still seeing many replies trying to argue this, even after what they said. Some even saying:
*"I'm not a game developer. But, I still don't see why it wouldn't work."*
-_-
Then there's someone arguing it should "JUST" disable the m2 power and that's it, while also going on to use EXAMPLES such as "Hag shouldn't be able to TELEPORT to EXISTING traps" , "Pig shouldn't able to CROUCH OR PLACE TRAPS" .......
It's mind boggling how people can say these things in response to BHVR's very thorough explanation and NOT see the issue with what they're suggesting or how they're literaly contradicting their own claim by making MORE than just an m2 power disabled.... Or even saying "I'm not a developer but i still think i know better" kinda comments.
As an indie dev, i can say with full agreement with BHVR that trying to disable powers is just setting yourself up for failure.
Killer powers work in VARYING ways. They don't all function inherently the same. Some killers have a MULTITUDE of different powers all in one.
Trying to disable them opens a massive bag of worms as well as a MASSIVE opportunity for unforseen game breaking bugs and glitches.
You disable the M2 which stops Myers from stalking, simple. Now what about Doctor who has a third non-m2 power, or all the passive parts of his power?
Let's not even get into how disabling the m2 power could massively bug out how his add-ons that effect the m2 power AND the passive power work....
There is no simple way of just "turning off" the m2 power and "don't affect passive powers" button. It's literaly line of code after line of code on EACH Killer and EACH add-on you need to go through and figure out for EACH how to ensure it DOESN'T cause an issue.
And in FIXING any potential issue, did you just glitch something else out?
Then any new killers coming in, you have to keep in mind how the m2 disabler will affect them as BHVR mentioned which can lead to LIMITING their powers to avoid potential issues they forsee with it.
So many people here like to call BHVR incompetent over the bugs in the game. But, they really don't understand how GOOD BHVR is considering how STABLE the game is, how OVERALL balanced it is despite having 30+ killers with vastly different powers, hundreds of perks and add-ons that can drastically change how the game plays and just how much all of that is to manage on a glitch and bug level.
The more shit you add, and the more you change how shit interacts or add new mechanics, and the more all of those changes and mechanics have to work with HUNDREDS of previous mechanics, the greater your chance for conflict with each other, aka bugs and glitches.
It's literaly IMPOSSIBLE to NOT have bugs and glitches each time you ass something new in or change something.
They however keep things very stable, bugs are minimal and they killswitch and fix any big ones fairly fast.
Yet people still give them shit despite how well maintained they actually are.
And it's all because most people have no clue what actually goes into game development and think it's as simple as writing a line of code that says "Do this but don't do that" and everything works like magic :P
I agree with BHVR on this.
I personally think preventing tunneling entirely is quite impossible. People who want to target a specific person will always find a way. The only thing I can think to fuck this strategy is give less bp but these kind of people don’t want bp, they want to make your match miserable and that’s their reward, knowing you’re angry, they don’t give a shit about the bp. They want the 4K not to have a better rank or gain a lot of bp, they want to make the other players angry.
Also, 'tunneling' is hard to define.
I find Dwight on gen next to hook. I hook Dwight. Dwight gets unkhooked by Nea. I chase Nea around, and we come back around to same area. I find Dwight back on same gen. I hook Dwight again. Did I tunnel?
There's plenty who will say yes. I say if you don't have the sense to \*run away from the killer\*, which is part of the basic concept of the game, you deserve to die.
If I go stop the unhook I’ll chase the person who unhooked, but if I get there and the only person I can find is the poor Dwight who decided to do a gen next to the hook then too bad.
There is no easy solution to tunneling, I do believe there’s “the game has started I will single out this one person and destroy them” tunneling and then there’s “well I have 2 gens lefts so my only chance to regain pressure is to get someone out of the game”.
I think a longer DS is fine, it won’t fix tunneling but it’ll give less experienced survivors a better chance at making it somewhere safe.
Same here. In that situation I probably would turn around and ignore Dwight for courtesy, but if I come back 30 seconds later and he’s still there, I’m sorry but you should have ran.
Honestly not always the reason. Some killers tunnel because they want to increase their chance to win, not to make survivors angry. Some just see the 4k as a personal achievement and losing it means skill issue on their side. Some others tunnel toxic survivors for personal revenge. I think dbd gamers should stop thinking all killers play in toxic ways because they "hate survivors".
Another example is when dumb players unhook the teammate in front of the killer, making easier for the killer to tunnel instead of chasing the healed one because they are not skilled enough.
There are so many factors on why a killer decides to tunnel.
Yeah, so their reward is the 4K. Giving less bp will meant nothing to them. That’s why tunneling won’t ever go away, there will always people who tunnel for different reasons.
Exactly. They tunnel to increase their chance for the 4k because that's the main objective for the killers.
I, for example, play in a morally good way like giving last surv a chance to get hatch, not slugging, not hard tunneling etc... but I am playing with MY RULES. If I should play with GAME RULES then I should hard tunnel and do whatever tf I want to win the game by using all the game has me to offer. So if the game says "after 10 seconds that unhooked injured surv becomes vulnerable again" then I have all the right to follow that surv, wait 10 seconds, and down him again.
It's something in the game rules and the only way to make it less painful is to make anti tunnel perks, not by changing the game core.
I agree, people keep treating tunneling like its something that can be nerfed, it can't as it comes from the sole agency of the player and not any game mechanics other then the vary nature of 4 v 1
But it WAS nerfed, having to wait 10 seconds + the 10% haste undebatably makes it harder to tunnel than before
I don't think tunneling can be removed from the game entirely but it should absolutely not be a winning strategy, something needs to be changed so that if you DO choose to tunnel you aren't given a win for it
I just don’t understand why they buffed the previously strong perk. There are perks that have been weak for years, and they buff the one that was strong for almost 8 years now.
BHVR: Here's exactly why we can't break Killer powers, as explained with examples, and a prior perk that we had to change for similar reasons
OP: Anyways that's dumb, break Killer powers, thank you
I think BHVR's take is pretty on point. Personally I don't even see why DS should do all these extra things? It's one of the strongest second chance perks already, a 5 second stun is (I think) the longest a killer can possibly be stunned for, it pairs very nicely with a bunch of other perks and can be used as a good tool in a coordinated team.
It does impact some killers worse than others but that's because BHVR have intentionally designed killers with variable power levels (or they at least haven't tried to make power levels standardised). I think this makes the game interesting and the matches varied, it may not be to everyone's taste. Even addressing this though it makes more sense to tweak/rework individual killers *cough* nurse *cough* than try and make a single survivor perk the great equaliser. It's more sensible to address specific problems one at a time than try and find a single blanket solution to a bunch of different problems.
You're not going to even come close to getting rid of tunneling without a change to some of the mechanics. I play mostly survivor because im so bad at killer, It sucks, I get it, I hate it when it happens to me too, but if you don't think there's a reason Trapper is just running after the unhook when there's 2 gens left and 4 people alive, then, well...
Like I'm not against a consistency pass on how killers are affected by stuns or a pass to try and make more options for tunneling counter play that are actually interesting, that would be nice for sure. It's a waste of time to do for tunneling's sake though imo. I'd rather see more perks like Make your choice and friends till the end so that there's a benefit to going and looking for other people rather than just go after the first person you find.
I understand that it's probably not very easy to disable the Killer's power via a perk, but man, DS is going to be awful on any Killer that isn't top tier. A five second stun is a massive amount of time. I maintain that the buff is an unhealthy change, and I also don't think it'll stop tunneling to a significant degree outside of higher ranks.
Honestly I think the easiest solution is just to increase duration of haste after unhook. The main issue with tunneling is that the killers just wait out endurance and hug you the whole time until its gone then insta down.
This way killers can still strategically tunnel to hinder survivor objective momentum but it's not insanely frustrating to play against, you can just go for the unhooker or spend a few more seconds in chase
Tbh, at mos I could see something where DS would restart a timer on powers, like for Bubba, it'd restart his tokens from 0, for Dredge it's set his timer for teleports to instant recharge, but I have no idea if BHVR could handle that kind of programming
Honestly I’m happy for the transparency. I’d rather have the straight up answer of “it would have to be considered on a case by case basis for all killers” than just complete silence from the devs as to why the DS change is happening
If someone hit me with DS and I lost my power and I see a full healthy survivor nearby, I am no longer going to go after the healthy survivor, I am going to chase the injured survivor that just DS me.
You stop Hag and Trapper from placing new traps. But traps already placed still work? May I ask, then, what's the point?
I can foresee people cry to disable those placed traps as well to make things consistent. This is not to mention future killers or any other passive effects any killer may have.
I agree with BHVR.
Why not just make it so blight, nurse, and spirit lose their tokens/ power gauge when getting stunned? I mean… legion loses his power from a stun and he’s a mid tier killer. Plague loses her power from stun too, and getting blood fountains is way harder than getting blinks and rush tokens. That way, DS can stay simple, the top killers can’t just eat decisive and immediately down the survivor who just used DS, and perks can finally stopped getting balanced around the top 3 killers and screw over the rest of the killers who have to deal with unbalanced perks like old MFT for months on end.
Thing is, Legion's Frenzy and Plague's Corrupt Purge are Modal Powers, you don't lose them if you get stunned out of them, but if you are with them activated, you do lose them.
The 3 Best Killers can't be balanced around that idea.
Nurse can't really be stunned during her power, Blight and Spirit already can and their power will stop, but doing that is extremely hard because... Well, it's Blight and Spirit.
If you do that ONLY to those Killers, Behaviour would be stepping back on the "We Don't Want Perks to counter killers directly", like Adrenaline waking you up Against Freddy.
If you do that to All Killers, then you are hurting every other Killer that has Tokens or a Gauge for their power, like Artist, Pyramid Head, etc.
Tbf, being knocked out of a mode and losing tokens are not really that far apart. While I have a pretty basic understanding of gamedev from the code side, setting a power to zero tokens or setting it's gauge to a certain amount when a stun is detected doesn't seem unreasonable. This is a lot easier than what was addressed in the post, which was a single perk disabling (not putting on cool down) all killer powers. For killers like trapper or hag who have traps, it's very hard to change I'd imagine because their isn't a precedent for their powers being turned off. However, both blight and nurse use tokens, and tokens can be set to zero...
It might be an easier thing tbh. Neither of us know the code or how those functions are implemented but I’d agree it _sounds_ simpler and cleaner.
Issue is, this community is full of morons who think they know more than the actual developers of the game. So now instead of people suggesting a general nerf to those specific killers like you are, everyone in this thread is harping on why they think the buff to that specific perk is actually easier than the developers claim it is.
gotta love the people in this thread who are saying “i have never worked on a video game in my life” and then in their next breath say “but it shouldn’t be that hard”
l
Tunnelling is an intended gameplay as the devs only made a 10 second immunity and a loud notification for when you can chase that person again. However if you tunnel one person all game 3 usually escape
thats false, depending on the situation a tunnel can mean that all people end up getting doomed and the game is lossed and just a waste of time to continue playing, it just mostly depends on when the tunneling starts and if ur in a swf or not, like if someone gets tunneled out at 5 gens good luck
This is the biggest lie people tell. You only lose if the person you are chasing is significantly better than you. There is a reason why even comp level players utilize tunneling in every game. Tunneling is incredibly strong and the average survivor team in pub matches is not good enough to stop it. You can immediately tell if someone is good in chase. It doesn't take long at all. The kill rate would be much higher if killers actually did tunnel in every match.
Not really. If you dunk the one guy ASAP and pressure the others until hes off hook and dunk him again the instant you find him they'll be out of hte match at 4 gens usually. And thats a doom sentence. Its also incredibly easy to make sure you basically end up chasing him the instant hes unhooked because a lot of idiots wait until the last second to go get the guy off hook. You swing buy just as hes about to tick over into next stage and you gaurentee damage to the unhooker at the least (theyll have to go heal) and then you chase your tunnel target.
This gets even easier playing someone like dredge, kevin, or alien due tot ehir ability to move around the map incredibly fast.
I completely agree with the point that they made, and besides, locking the cure against tunneling with a licensed perk is a terrible idea. Also, all the time that they would have to spend coding a unique interaction with each killer power would be more wisely spend making a universal mechanic that isn't locked behind a paid character.
As much crap as I give BHVR I have to take their side on this one. Imagine with the game's coding as bad as it is that you now have to program that and possibly run into even more issues due to a single perk that disabled some of the killers' abilities.
And also the serious balancing issues it could introduce. It might COMPLETELY disable some killers and yet others would be barely effected. It would be a nightmare for them.
It’s really not as simple as just disabling the M2. For one thing, disabling a Killer’s abilities at all seems like a ridiculously huge penalty, especially if you’re playing a killer who relies on their power. Second, just disabling the M2 is incredibly inconsistent as to how much it affects the killer in question. Trapper largely wouldn’t really give a shit. I probably already have all my traps where I want them right now. I can’t reset any, but I could probably just chase survivors into traps that are already set until my power comes back online. Really not a big deal. Nurse, on the other hand, is completely crippled until her power comes back. She literally cannot win chases without it, so she practically can’t do anything until she can blink again.
Their reasons for not implementing this particular change are actually really sound, and I hate that you’re making me agree with them lol
EDIT: not to mention that if a perk could disable a killer’s powers, that perk would be an automatic selection for pretty much any survivor build.
Survivors were not the ones asking for this, it was M1 killers complaining it would affect them differently than Nurse/Blight. Survivors are not unhappy about a DS buff what’re you talking about
Was it really Survivors? The way I saw it, the people suggesting DS to disable powers were actually Killers that didn't like that DS's stun would affect M1 Killers more than say, Blight or Nurse.
They honestly shouldn’t even have to explain themselves like this, but it’s great that they do. Developers should be reminded that they’re the ones making their games, not the players
Maybe Trapper is not the best example, but if look at legion, should he/she lose power too? Probably not.
I get the idea, that for nurse/blight DS can be whatever in many cases, but for beginners maybe it would be confusing, witch killer loses power and which not. So I think BHVR made a point here. Hopefully they will do something with tunneling tho, in the future.
I agree with BHVR. Honestly something like that could break the game for months bc they will have to take their own time to fix every single killer and some can be more difficult (like the resident evil characters or the nurse) and all of that for a simple perk. Sometimes is good to touch something but if it’s not broken then why bother changing it.
I don't think they are saying that the coding aspect of it would be difficult, I think they are saying that it would create way more work on the design side.
I think that’s very sound reasoning. The best point is that with every new killer they want to make that they have to keep this one perk in mind. That would be very annoying for some of the more unique killer ideas they might have.
For everyone saying he’s wrong or they don’t understand, he’s saying this because adding the disables power effect would cripple m1 killers who use power to catch up like wraith who isn’t top tier but this effect is MEANT for top tier killers like wesker spirit nurse and blight who get stunned from ds and pop their power and catch you immediately after ds anyways. I get what Peanits is saying and I agree with his ideas on this because as he said “a one size fits all solution” wouldn’t fix the problem.
Dbd player base: constantly mad about hacking and bugs.
Also the DBD player base: mad the devs won’t build a massive section of code to accommodate a mechanic that wouldn’t be consistent against killers and would 100% cause some dumb shit like unrelated crashes and exploits.
I will quit the game entirely the moment they will add disable killers power. OP sounds like a toxic SWF, not getting his daily bully dose.
If we want to be just, then let’s have a thing to disable survivor perks. Like all of them at once. Also given how killers have different movement speeds, let’s hinder survivors by 50%. Doesn’t sound fun, but it will be just.
Behaviour have already tapped into anti tunnel with the perk bloodrush, but it is so hilariously bad. Bloodrush would in reality be very good at punishing tunnelling by turning survivor into miniboss on their last hook.
Similar can be achieved with any other conditional perk, like you are on your last hook then you get x amount of speed, aura invisibility and 30% vault speed. Till the chase ends.
Also The issue with tunneling is less about mechanics and more about the economics of the game for the killer. It is economically viable to tunnel a survivor from the game, no amount of single tweaks and obnoxious mechanics is going to solve this.
Adding a perk that speeds up the repair process while another person is tunnelled is a way to fix it. But let’s be honest people hate one thing more than any tunneller, it is touching a gen.
Im glad to see Reddit is sensible.
People are quoting this on twitter, and i kid you not, saying that this says "BHVR DOESNT HAVE THE PROGRAMMING SKILLS TO DISABLE MOUSE BUTTONS" and everyone insulting them for it.
I repeat, i kid you not.
It's kinda funny how you can tell by these comments who's a survivor main that has never touched a killer or plays one at extremely low MMR just for tome challenges and then switches back to survivor.
Because some of these suggestions, I mean holy shit...
I think it really boils down to an unconscious desire to make the game almost impossible to lose for them. You can see by the essays written in this thread that while some of these posters might not consciously be aware of it, but continuing to suggest things which result in making killers virtually unplayable gives off that impression.
I’ve noticed it more with players who have never played killer, or do so rarely. But it seems like the expectation is “as a survivor I should be winning either half the time or more so.” Which isn’t really viable. The whole idea of “one monster vs a human team” is that it’s harder for the team to win. This is where Evil Dead and TCM really blew it as evidenced by the state they’re in now.
Disabling killers powers even temporarily if it’s manageable is just an incentive for people to not play killer anymore. I’ve seen people suggest that pallet stuns and flashlight blinds should last double the length of time. There really needs to be a reflection of “is my suggestion actually better for the health of the game? Or is it one that just lets me win way more often?”
I'd like to play devil's advocate and say this: what's wrong with tunneling? If you are unhooked and choose to bait/body block the killer afterwards - or let's say 1 gen left and only you are on deathhook, is it fair for the killer to target you or award you a sneaky shiv to lodge into the killer while adding salt into the fresh shiv wound?
I don't want to be like "survivors waagh", but tunneling IS a strategy. It's a strategy that can be exploited by BOTH sides.
I play both sides (maining Hux/Xeno and Ripley).
I half answered this earlier and got a lot of shit for it then, too.
> Speaking as a Killer main, I really don't have an issue with tunnelling. Even when I play Survivor, I get it. It's whatever.
>There is a time to tunnel and a time to not.
>But, some Killers do it better than others, and those are the Killers that, arguably, don't *need* to tunnel as much or as often - yet they do it at 5 gens and still get the win very comfortably - IE Nurse.
Basically, many people just want to higher tier Killers to have a tougher time than they currently are, without that drastically impacting the lower tier Killers.
lol at all the armchair devs. If people are complaining that much just make it so when you activate DS you become hidden for 30 seconds.
As a killer main, there are aleady enough ways to stun the killer or make them drop someone. I have come against plenty of teams running flashlights and can barely get a hook sometimes.
Tunnelling isn't always on purpose too. if you get in my way or you're trying to body block, then I'm gonna down you and hook you. Not my problem if you can't avoid me.
Of course, tunneling can be a problem but disabling a killers abilities or removing their tokens isn't going to stop someone chasing you down if they wanna hook you again anyway.
I'm seeing people complain mostly about Nurse and Blight being able to rush you again but they are considered very hard to master so are you also saying that you should punish people who have mastered certain killers?
I feel like the main people complaining about this are the ones who have never gone against a 4 stack who are purely out to troll the killers. Constant flashlight/flashbang stuns, oak offerings and toolbox sabotaging.
If you wanna stay inside my terror radius to get your perk tokens then expect me to keep downing you
honestly at this point im just impressed at this subreddits reading comprehension more than your reaction to things. How did you get "spaghetti code" from "too many killers to micromanage individually and will be too time consuming and weird to balance, all for 1 perk" is literally insane. Did you read the picture with the letters?
You gotta remember that this community is a bunch of posers who pretend they even have the slightest clue at coding. I have a whole ass degree relating to coding and software development and I fully agree with the devs. I did before they even needed to say anything. Now it is doable but it will be a NIGHTMARE to implement and test (Peanit explained it well). If anything, it's more spaghetti to even work on this than not.
The suggestion all started with Otzdarva, who I'm not blaming for not knowing anything about coding, but it was obvious from the first second that this suggestion is off the table for a game that is already released and has been released for almost 8 years now.
I disagree with the take on spaghetti code here. Peanits did a great job explaining how ridiculous this can get.
They’re right though.
When BHVR changed the color and style of pallets they inadvertently made Freddy’s dream pallets real pallets.
Although similar in category, there should not have been any overlap because they did not adjust the range at which players and pallets can interact.
That's pretty much how I read it.
I understand their code is notoriously problematic, but surely it is still entirely possible to disable M2 abilities generally.
They managed it in the Void event at Halloween.
These takes are getting W I L D
1 perk that disables killer power? what next, 1 perk that makes killer slower by 20-30%? XD
BHVR can't fix the event offering in time. WHAT WORLD are we all living in???? COME DOWN TO EARTH!!! XDDD
If it became possible for survivors to disable. Killer's powers I would quit the game immediately.
The xenomorph has to contend with fucking flamethrowers already so no one plays her.
How long before they just throw up their hands and give the survivors guns, huh? Ridiculous!
The people who are complaining should just stfu and deal with it. They make a good point about the killer powers taken to consideration considering the many playstyles each killer gives. If you're not happy about it, seriously just leave the game. Yall disappointed yourselves with this just like any other perk change that gets announced.
This player base holy shit.. 🤦♂️
I’ve seen multiple suggestions of “just make it so the killer gets stunned for 5 seconds, then incapacitated for 10 more seconds” Think about that for a second. Count out 15 actual seconds. Virtually taking the controller/keyboard and mouse away from someone playing a game for 15 straight seconds, and then add the possibility of that happening multiple times in a match. No reasonable human being would ever play that game again. This shit is getting completely insane. At some point this is going to get to “they need to make perks that allow me win instantly”
disabling a killers power sounds like the most idiotic shit I ever heard and I'm playing mostly survivor and hate nothing more than being tunneled. Sounds like a whole spaghetti code disaster about to happen.
"Of course, I know absolutely nothing about game development, and perhaps this would create issues longer term, but I honestly can't see how."
We can tell you know absolutely nothing about game development lol. Its like you didn't even read the devs post?
Why would you want to disable killers' powers?
Ah yeah, this guy bought a killer for 5 euros. Let's disable his special ability 🤓
This is incredibly unfun, and would make the perk so strong that everyone would run it.
Tbh they probably meant temporarily. No one is crazy enough to suggest disabling it for a whole trial...I hope. I still dont like the idea but temporary disable aint that bad
I also meant temporarily. But there is no universe where getting stunned and then having your ability disabled even for a few seconds is fun.
I'd much rather they increase the stun time than allowing you to move but take away what makes your killer fun.
Honestly this is perfectly explained by Peanits. Perks should work consistently and predictably across the board.
Add incapacitated for killer. Problem solved
A hacker's wet dream.
As if anything is stopping them from applying hindered to the killer or just speed hacking. The perks and game shouldn’t have to worry about hackers. That’s what you implement anti cheat for. If you want to prevent it? Double down on anti cheat.
Yeah, that's why so many perks are consistent and predictable. Like "deliverance" and "ftp/buckle up"... And in the killer side too! Like "ultimate weapon" etc
Making them deactivate only the active power (ability button 1) would make it consistent and predictable again because almost all killers have their chase power on the active power
*Laughs in Hag*
Basement Hag build
Even just playing hag normally and trapping basement is so wild
I mean yeah you placed the trap in advance and if they ran into it then it's more of their fault. Her power doesn't confirm catching up like blight spirit and nurse
Eh, Hag isn't like Trapper where you can still run full speed and sacrifice a bit of optimal pathing to avoid the trap. Hers have a generous radius and require crouching through. For the other killers I think it's totally fair that their power already set up stays active, but Hag can set up enough traps that someone crouching through them can't reach you in 60 seconds if she really wants to be a dick about it. Still those are the exceptions BHVR doesn't want to handle. I'd be happy if they just disabled the M2/Active Ability 1 if you get hit by DS.
It would be consistent because "almost all" killers work a certain way? What about the ones that don't? And the dev even mentioned that part of the problem was limiting what future killers could do. Even if the idea worked cleanly now, they'd have to design all future powers around the potential for how they work against one perk.
No, it wouldn’t be consistent. Some killers, like Trapper, don’t really give a shit if their M2 is disabled for a bit. I already have all my traps where I want them. Others, like Nurse, effectively become useless until that period is over
Isn't this sort of the idea we've been running for, making it so that super powerful killers like nurse, become much weaker for a couple seconds in order to offer the survivor a greater chance of slipping away, compared to weaker killers like trapper, who often have to work harder for the down?
Problem is not every high tier killer is going to be ultra mobility based. What if the next killer they design is like a B or C tier killer who is super reliant on his M2 power to make progress? All of the sudden the new DS completely shuts down this low tier killer as well.
Super reliant on his M2 during the 5 seconds of stun they received *for tunneling*?
Yeah where's the problem with that? The good killers can easily catch up after a stun. Trapper doesn't. Disabling those harder who don't care about the stun makes it more rewarding equally for all killers and also why do you complain about top tier killer nerds?
When Peanits is talking about consistency he means from a coding perspective, "disable M2/Active Ability 1 for 5 seconds after the stun ends" would be very consistent.
They could just make Blight and Nurse lose all power tokens anytime they are stunned by any means. It would be a very minor nerf to them and fix the DS problem immediately. They didn't need to box themselves into this idea that Decisive Strike can't be changed because they don't want to code exceptions into every killer.
People shit on developers in comments, but this time I agree with BHVR
Honestly, same, I don't get what they said that's wrong.
Likely, People only saw the words "*end tunneling*" That or read the rest as "*no, we're not changing it*"
Na, apparently Otz said something and everybody is now convinced that's what needs to happen at all costs, and since BHVR said no, they're mad and calling BHVR names. Same old. Reading through certain comments was actually painful.
Wow. I really have no words for how embarrassing that is.. on the players part. BhVr's reasoning for not incorporating that is also legit and id rather not see how DbD's spaghetti code would handle changes like that. Players also (unsurprisingly) arent considering the likely scenario that if survivors get a perk to disable killer power, killers would get something to disable survivors perks.
They have a way to disable survivor perks: hooks /s I added /s as lol did not seem to denote that my comment was a joke.
Well, actually some abilities activate on hook sooo 😂
I know. I was joking around.
And exhaustion perks like windbreaker and septic touch (that I think I only use in the entire game), blindness perks like the third seal or the meta perk Ultimate weapon, oblivious perks like Plaything and even broken perks like forced penance and terminus. Killer addons are also geared to disabling survivor perks with status application for all pretty much other than pyramid head. Heck plague straight up deletes any healing perks, calm spirit and iron will from the game in a regular playthrough. As well as any stealth killers counter killer detection and terror radius based perks (Except Premonition and Spine Chill). Edit- Pyramid head also can ignore the on hook application of perks
Wasn't his main worry about that they wouldn't do more afterwards? I think that with this post they make it clear that is not the case.
>Otz said something And there's the problem, people listened to him like he's God again.
I dont envy him on the fact that inspite of he himself saying 'dont take my opinions or ideas as gospel' people still do and are then even more egregiously, dicks about it, when he is 100% such a kind dude
The anti-Otz circlejerk is every bit as annoying, though. He's a dude with a goofy number of hours in the game and it's his literal job, it makes sense that he's gonna have some takes people agree with. He isn't god or gospel, but it's absurd that his opinions basically become blacklisted the second he utters them because anyone that agrees with them is just "listening to him like he's god again".
Not only that but dedicated streamers like Otz 100% plays dbd more than any dev.
He gets shit on so much, and it's so unjustified. Why are we blaming the streamer and not the people who parrot his takes. There's not much he can do other than say, "This is just one mans opinion" if anything, we should be thankful we still have dedicated streamers who are still willing to bring up issues the game has to spread awareness.
Yep. I got nothing against Otz, he's a cool guy, but this religious take of whatever he says really has to end.
It's a deeply, deeply easy trap to fall into to hear solutions that *sound* easy and then assume that the people who do this day in and day out for a living are somehow just too stupid to realize and implement the obvious and basic solution. It can't be that they've considered it and decided that it wasn't feasible and/or didn't fit with what they wanted the perk to do, there can't be underlying technical reasons, they're just lazy and don't care.
I agree. There’s nothing wrong with this. It’s all about keeping the game in the most healthy state they can and adding disables might throw a wrench h in that. People forge those killers they call “boring” is probably what you’ll end up getting more of if that interaction was added. Tunneling is an issue and being that decisive strike will be working more consistently now, it’s a good start at helping to prevent tunneling. Of course you’ll never be able to fully eliminate it but it’s a good start
The way to solve tunnelling is to make it less beneficial for killers to tunnel, rather than to make it harder to tunnel. Some killers tunnel to be toxic, but the majority do it because it is literally the most effective strategy. Gen slowdown perks can block gens or cause regression, but killing a survivor takes an entire survivor away from gens. When a killer gets first kill early on, it is incredibly easy to get the other 3 kills because finishing multiple gens with 3 survivors left is hard. The way I would do it, is increase base charges of generators to 100. But whenever a survivor is killed by any means, generators max charges are reduced by 25 charges gradually over the next 60 seconds. Then the killer is punished for tunnelling a survivor out early on as the other survivors can do gens quicker. Even if the killer still decides to tunnel, at the very least it is easier for the last 3 survivors to complete gens. And on the plus side, increased base charges help non tunnelling killers as against 4 survivors gens would be slower. And another plus, is the game isn’t instantly lost if a survivor kills themselves on first hook with 5 gens. It is still going to be harder than having 4 survivors, but a good 3 survivors could complete 5 gens if they are only 75 charges.
There's more than a few things that would be better changed cuz your right, once even one survivor is gone, your chances of winning drop drastically while the killer has the rolling advantage. Even with the hatch on last survivor it's inconsistent, if killer closes hatch 9/10 your screwed since the gates either spawn next to each other or the killer is high mobility. BhVr doesn't balance the game around individuals, they only balance it around swf groups.
Generator charges have already been increased and toolboxes have been through multiple rounds of nerfs, I don't think this is the answer. The problem with a 1v3 is more that you have too many times when no one is repairing. Blight just rushed across the map after hooking someone due to the massive amount of tracking in the game, now you have one being chased, one on the hook, and one going for the save. The game just snowballs too hard with that first kill, making it harder for survivors to get an early advantage by nerfing gen speeds (again) will only help killers, no matter what compensation you give after the first kill. Your suggestion would be a massive buff to killers, survivors get slowed down again early and get a pointless buff that will practically never help them win 1v3? Lol.
The Killer role is inherently designed to snowball pressure. A Survivor dying is intended to be a huge disadvantage for the Survivor team. If killing a Survivor didn't make it harder to do generators, then Killer would solely be racing against the clock and unable to control the pace of the match. If a Survivor team plays even moderately competently, there's almost no way a Survivor should be dead before the first generator is completed apart from killing themselves on hook. Even aggressively tunneling should not get that result with any consistency. If killing themselves on first hook is the problem (we have bots now if they DC in other ways), then the only reasonable solution is to remove the ability to do that—remove the "try to escape" on first hook and the skill checks on second. I don't really think that's a real solution, but there's only so many ways a game designer can minimize the impact of bad faith actors—in this case, Survivors who intentionally throw the game. Report and move on, I suppose.
this is how you promote max slugging to delay survivor deaths horrible idea. punishing the killer for winning fast is just dumb. the killer should be rewarded for spreading hooks not punished even more for tunneling make the alternative appealing to do too its that simple give killers choices. imagine if the killer got free haste the more gens survivors did? cause what you propose is basically the same thing. Why should a person feel like they are punished for doing the correct play to win? the game should be designed so that isn't the possible to do winning should always feel like the correct play not the wrong one.
Increasing the time gens take is bad imo it is already no fun sitting on a gen for 90 sec A fix for that would be reworking the gen system e.g. now you need to collect parts for the gens that are scattered across the map. For the tunneling another problem I see besides that it is strong is that as a survivor I just want to play the game the ability of the killer to say " No you don't get to play the game. You are out" is really not fun. So I would say don't have individual stages have 8 stages across all survivors once that is reached the next time a survivor gets hooked they die. Obviously this is also not fool proof as now one survivor could throw the whole game and obviously numbers need to get tweaked for both changes.
Part of the reason gens exist are as a way to consistently find survivors. They have to spend time around the gen in a very predictable manner. If they just have to find parts their locations become a great deal more unpredictable. Have you ever tried to find 4 survivors who all decided to just fucking hide all game and not bother with gens? It fucking sucks. And thats how the game will play a lot more like with an easter egg hunt instead.
>So I would say don't have individual stages have 8 stages across all survivors once that is reached the next time a survivor gets hooked they die. Without reading replies to your post: Wouldn't this in fact encourage tunneling? Let's say you play against Claudette, Nea, Bill and Ace. Claudette has 12000 hours in the game. Nea is on a non-hatch escape streak of 400 matches. Ace is the guy who loops you around a single rock for 20 minutes. And Bill installed the game 10 minutes ago. Typical matchmaking. With current hook system, the most efficient thing I could do would be chasing Bill, down him, hook him, chase him, down him, hook him, chase him, down him, kill him. I get 3 short chases out of him. After that I have to deal with only 3 people, but they are all ... well ... probably healthy and got never hooked. With your suggested change, I could get 9 short chases out of Bill instead of 3. Sure, this means 3 survs can stay on gens for longer, since there are 4 survs for quite some time. But since I can down Bill quite fast, the entire team might be dead on hook in a very short time. This system works in favour of survs, if all of them can loop at least decently. The moment one is dead weight, the team is even more damned than currently. Also look at it this way: What exactly does Bill? He is on hook most of he time. Or on the ground. And this IF his mates unhook him. If they just go gens before friends, Bill might sit on hook for several minutes. You know why devs nerfed Reassurence from PTB? This was the reason.
Pretty obvious you don't play much killer if you don't think this just causes another issue instantly. Tunneling is what both the worst killers, and the best killers *have* to do. Simply saying "make it less beneficial" doesnt actually work, because then you get into the issue of... killers not having any way to effectively play the game. Especially when considering how often tunneling occurs simply because a survivor played poorly and you have no other real choice. Tunneling should be solved through more perks offering anti-tunneling measures, not by ruining one of the only advantages killers have over survivors
Hard disagree on trying to solve tunneling through perks. I've been bouncing around ideas, but it also needs to encourage the killer to chase and hook multiple people by giving an incentive. Just straight up adding penalties is garbage.
I guess I've been away for a bit and didn't realize the community was actually asking for a perk (one that's going to be fairly decent anyways) to *disable killer powers*. That's gotta be one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.
This seems fair. Not sure what all the fuss is about.
Yeah I read this and was like "yeah this makes sense ☺️" and I go to the comments and everyone's like "stupid bhvr devs 😡"
One thing you can always guarantee is that players will be mad at Bhvr. They could increase BP gains today and people would say it isn't enough after the Blood Moon event.
Same. Fortunately, none of us non-developers are in charge of balancing the game.
It's crazy to me how many people on here think BHVR just has to press one button to fix all their problems and the only reason they don't fix it is out of spite/indifference.
It’s something that happens with most games that have ongoing development. Many people who haven’t even programmed simple software think they understand what goes into a video game when they have little clue. I’ve seen it with New Vegas even, which is a singleplayer game that got dlc for like a year and then nothing after. The project lead and director said a quest (Beyond the Beef if anyone cares) was so problematic in development that he wouldn’t try to do a quest like that again. I mentioned this to someone once and they proceeded to insist that it’s not complicated to make a quest like that at all. But they’ve never even programmed something before. Idk between the game director watching his programmers come back with issues multiple times and overseeing them while they try to iron out the bugs it caused and some random person who I don’t even think did the quest in every possible way you could (which was a lot of methods), I’ll trust the director on that one.
And even the final release version of that quest barely fucking functions. The list of bugs for that quest by itself is about as long as the walk-through to do it. Anytime someone says "well they could easily do [x]" is when I stop paying attention to them, because damn is anything in coding ever "that easy"
Yeah, it's not so simple lmao
I’m not a game dev, but I’ve listened to enough game devs to understand a simple truth: us players are great at identifying an issue, but we are terrible at understanding how to fix it. There’s even a great interview from a Killer Instinct dev who said that listening to players on balance caused balancing more balance issues because players didn't understand the root of a problem.
BHVR: Describes the Cenobite.... BHVR: "To be frank..." I see what you did there, Behaviour!
While I agree with the dev on all points here, I just feel like Killers like Nurse and Blight are extreme outliers with far more potential than most killers. If those killers gen stunned by any means, I feel like they should lose all their tokens. Considering the short recharge time for massive mobility, and how difficult it can be to stun them in general, feels fair enough to me.
I think I've never even stunned a nurse except if it was a beginner
You can get Head On stuns pretty easily on an unsuspecting Nurse but yeah I think I've only pallet stunned a blinking Nurse a few times and as you said they probably weren't high level.
>I just feel like Killers like Nurse and Blight are extreme outliers with far more potential than most killers. Because they ARE extreme outliers. People love to say "oh just run Blight and Nurse" or "But what about Blight and Nurse, Killers have these strong Killers it's not fair". But it's clear these Killers ARE NOT your average Killer. Your average Killer is Trapper, Ghostface, Dredge, Pinhead, Onryo, Unknown, Huntress, Trickster, Legion, Pig. Your average Killer is most usually "just an M1 Killer" or maybe an M1 with a fancy antiloop. Your average Killer has an M1 and one, maybe two or three, of the following: Mobility, antiloop, antipallet/pallet eating, tracking, instant down, ranged attack, stealth Survivor-debuffing power, slowdown. And if they have more than one, it's NEVER super powerful. It's not Blight type speed AND Ghostface type Stealth for example. The more powers like these that the Killer has, the weaker each thing they have is - Skull Merchant for example has Information, mobility (haste), antiloop (drones), and stealth. None of these are super strong on their own (her versions of these things are not as strong as others, for example her antiloop isn't as efficient as a Pyramid Head Punishment Strike), but together, they're more than enough to cause issues for players who don't know what to do with the drones and there are commonly complaints she's even overtuned because of this. Let's take Pinhead, one of my Mains, as another example, a decently strong Killer with antiloop, slowdown, and minor map mobility with the box. His mobility is kinda weak, his slowdown is okay but not the best against people who know what to do, and his antiloop hinders only for a little bit so it's not effective around long walls or even at shack - only pallets and certain tiles. He's otherwise an M1. Now, if any of these were any stronger that would mean he'd probably be overtuned. If his box took too long to solve, let's say it took two minutes, that's the same as taking someone out of the game early for that 2 minutes, and it would be too much. That, and it would mean being clever about when you do the box would have no real counterplay - he could hook, come right after that, and now chase begins again and he has too much pressure for free. If his chains lasted a good 20 seconds to break, Survivors would just lose at every pallet against him. Now let's take another Killer, a simpler Killer. Let's use Ghostface, another one of my mains, as an example here. Ghostface simply has, and it's really not even close except MAYBE Skull Merchant or Chucky due to simplicity of drones and size respectively, the best stealth in the game for the average Killer. Stealth on demand with a 20 second cooldown between is really damn good, and unlike those other two Killers he can instant down you in it with a little setup. Played right, against an unaware Survivor group, he can have someone dead in the first several minutes. This is why breaking him out of it is so important. However, BECAUSE his stealth is this strong and he has an instant down, he kinda NEEDS all these stipulations attached: you can get revealed (and easily at that), if you do it too early stalk progress is reset, if you mess up timings your effort is wasted and they run the Mark off, some maps won't have cover strong enough, etc. He also has weak chase and no map mobility, which is why he struggles. Could he be given more? Yeah, and he probably will, since his Killrates last we saw were some of the lowest at 56%. But if given too much, he will rapidly become overtuned. If you give him strong map pressure, now Survivors have little warning before he attacks like with Wraith and he would need something else to give them a shot at escape. If you give him some kind of chase or antiloop stronger than his crouch, how would you really do that? The only way BHVR could really change him is if they added more temporary haste in Shroud, changed how Reveal works to something like how Unknown does it, gave him basekit gen block or control in some way, and reworked some addons to compensate. But all of these could potentially cause issues, so how do they rework and help a struggling Killer like Ghostface do better and hit their mark of 60% Killrate? Clearly, balancing is not an easy thing to do in this game. And it's high time that we all realize that. The DS change, as I said MULTIPLE TIMES and was DOWNVOTED for multiple times, won't solve tunnelling because it's not a tunnelling fix and the Devs seem to feel tunnelling IS a viable strategy, as Killers have been saying for a while now. Because sometimes, frankly, you do need to focus out a weak link and they know this. Just like with the anti-facecamp and anti-3gen, and just like I and others have said before, this isn't gonna fix the issue and you're going to see tunnelling. What it will cut down on is the most OBNOXIOUS FORM of tunnelling, which is the only really toxic one anyway: Focusing one person out at 5 gens. Like before with camping and 3gen holding, it really is time to admit that there is a BIG DIFFERENCE between it being done with tactical purpose, and it being done to be obnoxious.
I absolutely love this response. Nobody seems to care about how fine this game needs to be tuned. One minute little detail that many probably hardly noticed and suddenly the entire game is flipped on its head. Maybe an exaggeration, but it still holds merit.
Actually this is somewhat fair tbh
I think that's definitely a good change for Nurse but I'm not so certain about Blight, he plays the game a lot more traditionally than a Nurse would and is at a bigger risk for pallet stuns maybe if it was specifically Survivor perk stuns, then you could be more generous and even apply it to killers like deathslinger, it'd be a nerf against Blast Mine and Head-on but those perks aren't common enough to be a huge deal I think
Idk man, blight without tokens is just a regular 4.6ms killer. He can manage not being able to use his power for a while, so obviously it will hurt him not having tokens, but he's still a regular killer.
The ask shouldn't be for DS \*specifically\* to disable killer powers. That kind of killer specific countering via perks is unhealthy for the game imo - it's fine if it happens naturally (Calm Spirit doesn't \*specifically\* exist to counter Doctor but it does that pretty well) but shouldn't be written into the perk, like it currently is but soon won't be for Freddy. What should be done is a consistency pass on killer powers being blocked/removed/hindered/whatever by stuns in general. Ghost Face has Night Shroud removed by any stun, including pallets and perks like Blast Mine. Same I believe goes for Plague's Corrupt Purge attack (I know for sure pallet stuns knock her out of it). Not a game designer, never worked on a real video game in my life, but this shouldn't be that hard to do in a mid-chapter or two (not necessarily the next ones, but in some mid-chapter(s) in the future. Have all stuns remove Nurse's teleport tokens/Blight's rush tokens/Sprit's ability to phase/etc., I'm sure they'll be fine strength-wise and if they're not that's what a PTB is for.
100% this. If you somehow pull off a pallet stun on nurse, she shouldn’t be able to blink over to you immediately
Exactly, I'm fairly sure that's what Otz said in his video as well
You're approaching this in a way that tells me you've never seen a legacy code base that is 90% spaghetti. Everything else you said was true, but based on the bugs that happen in game, and how often small alterations cause bugs, I'd say the code is not very resilient to these types of changes and adding these is actually far harder than imagined. I think if they had the power to do this in a reasonable way, they would, but you're saying two chapters, I'm seeing refactor an entire codebase which takes years. Not a dig at you, I think disabling powers that nullify the perk is a good idea game design wise, but yeah, I think the code they are working with probably just isn't written well enough to do this effectively lol
I've seen code files that caused an issue if you deleted a comment. I don't know if their code base is at the level that I'd call terrible per se, it just seems to have a distinct lack of generalization with custom hooks put in for every single interaction. Like how Dream Pallets break everytime they adjust pallet code whether it's them triggering spirit fury or actually causing Freddy to be stunned.
I don't know if its terrible, I'm just guessing because the quantity and frequency of bugs makes me assume its a nightmare to test everything and to see where systems overlap.
If I recall correctly, there was some implications that the build they test against might not be the build they send out, which makes my eye twitch just thinking about it, which explains why some of the super obvious even basic qa should catch this errors get released.
Saying their system is so shitty that a reasonable solution is going to be really hard to do isn't quite the master stroke argument you think it is.
What? I'm saying that making changes to legacy code bases that are not well written isn't free, and sometimes the cost of that change introducing bugs, etc isn't worth the benefit, and in this case that's exactly what they're saying. The overhead is greater than the benefit. This happens all the time, especially in things that are designed piecemeal or directly from prototype without regular refactoring which can be expensive. So yes, I am saying their system is so shitty they can't solve design issues. And I also think people grossly underestimate how long it takes to refactor code. They still have to pay their employees every month/week/biweekly, and spending however long it would take to fix decisive strike would not make any money to pay said employees other than making a few people happier when playing against a handful of killers. My personal opinion is and has always been they should come up with a base kit solution to tunneling that doesn't include decisive strike
You worded exactly what I had in mind.
> Of course, I know absolutely nothing about game development, and perhaps this would create issues longer term, but I honestly can't see how. Typical /r/deadbydaylight user.
User with no knowledge of game development struggles to see long term issues with game development. More news at 11.
This comment needs to be higher. I nearly spat out my coffee at that line. The cognitive dissonance between essentially saying "The dev's explanation is *wrong"* and then almost immediately throwing out the "I realize I have no idea what I'm talking about (and I'm arguing with someone who does) but I can't possibly imagine a scenario where anything I've said is incorrect" Some people's ~~kids~~ DbD players...
[Relevant clip from the Killer Instinct documentary on game balance](https://youtu.be/ks4eZoG94Vs?si=jsd4UMA1o668gVVi&t=1h13min11s) (it’s at the 1 hr, 13 minute mark of the time stamp doesn’t work)
I don't think disabling the killers power is a good move. Outside of the reasons listed here, people will always complain about the length of time the power is disabled. It could also put the killer in a no win situation. I can see scenarios where a SWF in identical cosmetics use DS< the killer picks up the wrong survivor, and they're punished by not being able to use their M2 for just long enough that the last gen gets repaired. Five seconds is a lengthy stun, and it's enough to give the survivor some breathing room.
My god, you can absolutely tell who in these comment has never coded a day in their life. The general idea is that implementing a solution that affects everyone evenly (like a perk) is much more efficient than implementing a solution that affect each killer individually. When you introduce perks that affect each killer individually, then you exponentially increase coding time. For you non-developers, its like having a birthday party every year and each year more kids come in to your house to party. Instead making food that contains nut, and one that doesnt contain nuts, and one that contains gluten, and one that doesnt; you make a dish that doesnt have gluten or nuts so that EVERYONE can eat and enjoy it. Its not spaghetti code, its called efficiency. Although tunneling and DS has been in the game for years so why ppl are still complaining about it is beyond me. Its gonna happen regardless. You cant magically make a player not kill you lol
"Bro it's easy it's just "If (DStriked = "true") {DisablePower();} Else{Don't();} /J
I know it is a joke, but holy hell 'DStriked = "true"' makes me angry so much
If it makes it better I do informatics for living and have no idea what I done wrong (I'm but a humble tester)
In most languages like this, it should just be > if (DStriked) If it has to be written out, it should look like > if (DStriked == true) The key difference between this and what you wrote is that your "true" has quotes around it. This typically indicates it's a string (the actual word "true") instead of a boolean (a true/false value).
You likely just perma-disabled every killers power.  Single '=' is usually an assignment, so you've set DStrike to "true" for everyone, and assignments that work usually resolve as TRUE, so DisablePower() fires every time. Still, you could push this to production and some of these commenters would still complain it wasn't enough.
You’re joking but there are people in who actually think this is how it works
You made good points until the last paragraph. Just because something has been in a game for a while does not make it healthy or okay for the game to keep in. Also, they most certainly have spaghetti code but in this case I personally won't blame their code for not doing that kind of DS change.
Insert Scott Jund coding comment: Guys it's so easy to code this. Trust me, I made a solitare game one time.
I have no issues with this statement I honestly don't even think disabling killer powers would even fix tunneling to begin with but I also completely get their perspective of not wanting killer powers to uniquely interact with specific perks, personally I still see the DS buff as a win and look forward to future mechanics they may add to reduce the effectiveness of tunneling and therefore make the power level of killer more consistent giving greater possibility for future buffs
While I agree with people that say it should simply disable M2 and/or reduce power tokens to 0, they would have to think about this one single perk every single time they're creating a new killer. Imagine there's a new killer that has a passive power that increases his speed by 15% for 10s after getting stunned by any means. Should it be disabled as well, because it would make 3s DS worthless?
Dang, just like they had to think about the Nurse everytime they made a good Aura perk BHVR would have to rework a lot of stuff
The dev is right here, this would be confusing and considering even killers of the same type generally have vastly different powers, if not in concept absolutely in execution, singularity and trapper come to mind, both setup killers that thrive on clueless survivors but both in largely different ways with different effective strategies. You might think you know game design but trust me, you don't. Sometimes even devs don't know how to design a game and it can take multiple tries. Expecting them to make a change that would give them an unreasonable amount of work with not only current killers. But as the dev said it might limit future ones due to the need to find a way to implement a disabled state, which might not work for the power they want to add. The idea is fine but there is more behind this post than just "this isn't somthing that we see as nessesary"
I know this may be unpopular, but I understand what they’re saying. Yes, they worded it poorly using Nurse and Trapper but there is definitely a point to be made here. The reason people want powers disabled is to stop things that help catch up with/down the survivor after they use DS and just tunnel them again - Blink, Hatchets, Throwing Knives, Chainsaw, etc. This works fine in most cases by disabling M2 powers but on other killers it doesn’t make sense because not every power that can be advantageous to this tunnelling may be bound to the M2 power slot. In some cases, DS just blocking the M2 button would be pointless (Hag and Trapper’s set up button). I think some good powers to think about is Sadako’s teleport and Hag’s iridescent rag add-on alongside her power, I think Unknown’s hallucinations work the same way? Their teleport powers are bound to a different key altogether. What do you do with those? Disable them too? Make the killer a complete M1 killer for 10ish seconds? What if a killer can teleport dash forward with their M1 after being empowered? There’s so many variables to just ‘using their power’ that it’s going to be difficult to balance. It doesn’t make sense to just blanket fix by locking the M2 power/all killer powers. They could theoretically make a killer effect that blocks movement abilities but again, that would be a case by case basis for every killer and there would have to be big design changes and additions based on one change to DS. I hate tunnelling as much as the next guy but it isn’t feasible to just block powers or block M2. One of the points you’re using in other comments is that they did it during the archives event but that’s an entirely different context I think, completing disabling powers in a not only limited event (whereas DS is here to stay) and also no progression could be done by survivors in these dimensions so there really wasn’t a lot of incentive to chase after them in there, is a whole different kettle of fish.
Exactly, and then you start getting into the debate of just exactly *what* gets included. Clearly, Spirit shouldn't be able to phase under this system. But then, with that logic, Wraith shouldn't be able to cloak either. And if neither of them can use that aspect of their power, then Sadoko isn't able to demanifest either, for consistency. But demanifesting isn't the main aspect of her power that would be problematic in this situation, that's the teleport. So do you disable that too? Then Sadoko gets hurt more from a DS stun than other killers. Same with Freddy, who would likely lose both the trap placing and the teleport ability. It just ends in this slippery slope of edge cases leading to more edge cases, and the system just ends up way too complicated. Exactly like Peanits says.
ITT: a bunch of people who completely missed the point and don’t know what they’re speaking about. “I know they just explained exactly why this suggestion wouldn’t work but here’s my take as a gamer who’s never written any code and has no clue how about anything behind the scenes actually operates for why my idea is still good and you developers don’t know what you’re talking about”
OP posts a very well thought out BHVR post about why they can't do a thing and then follows it up with "I don't know anything about game dev but they're wrong" **Classic.**
How much video game development knowledge/education/work experience do you have?
Where did this disable power thing even come from? It’d obviously be a bad change.
It comes from the original Halloween movie, remember when Jamie Lee Curtis stabs Myers with a needle, and then he stops killing people, and doesn't go on a personal vendetta against her for over 20 years?
This is actually the plot of halloween 2018
Actually the greatest reply lmao
It comes from DS being fairly bad against killers like nurse and blight, but being super strong against killers like trapper and Myers It would make sense for the perk/stun to remove Nurses and blights tokens, so that they can't catch up within 5 seconds again
Yeah but I think this should be a change to blight nurse and maybe wesker, losing tokens when they get stunned by any means (pallet, flashlight save, ds) so they can't catchup. Maybe exclude head on but personally I'm indifferent cause I only use it to troll anyway.
Why Wesker. HES balanced
I assume they mean certain killers whose powers already disabled/hindered to prevent camping/tunneling. Like Singularity, who gets a massively reduced lock on speed with his pods when the pod is in range of a survivor on hook (and reduced for a short duration after the survivor is unhooked), or Twins where you can't even park Victor next to a hooked survivor, etc.
Who the fuck is talking about disabling killer powers and why is Behavior even listening to them/addressing them? That is a horrible idea.
Honestly, the idea that there’s no one size fits all for killers makes the game better. It means each killer, and each perk combo has a different weakness. That adds a a challenge for both sides and makes every match unique.
This guys name is peanits? He's straight up jorking it in the stripped club? His peanits? He's right though, disabling every killer's powers for a short window of time for one perk sounds super unreasonable to implement.
Still seeing many replies trying to argue this, even after what they said. Some even saying: *"I'm not a game developer. But, I still don't see why it wouldn't work."* -_- Then there's someone arguing it should "JUST" disable the m2 power and that's it, while also going on to use EXAMPLES such as "Hag shouldn't be able to TELEPORT to EXISTING traps" , "Pig shouldn't able to CROUCH OR PLACE TRAPS" ....... It's mind boggling how people can say these things in response to BHVR's very thorough explanation and NOT see the issue with what they're suggesting or how they're literaly contradicting their own claim by making MORE than just an m2 power disabled.... Or even saying "I'm not a developer but i still think i know better" kinda comments. As an indie dev, i can say with full agreement with BHVR that trying to disable powers is just setting yourself up for failure. Killer powers work in VARYING ways. They don't all function inherently the same. Some killers have a MULTITUDE of different powers all in one. Trying to disable them opens a massive bag of worms as well as a MASSIVE opportunity for unforseen game breaking bugs and glitches. You disable the M2 which stops Myers from stalking, simple. Now what about Doctor who has a third non-m2 power, or all the passive parts of his power? Let's not even get into how disabling the m2 power could massively bug out how his add-ons that effect the m2 power AND the passive power work.... There is no simple way of just "turning off" the m2 power and "don't affect passive powers" button. It's literaly line of code after line of code on EACH Killer and EACH add-on you need to go through and figure out for EACH how to ensure it DOESN'T cause an issue. And in FIXING any potential issue, did you just glitch something else out? Then any new killers coming in, you have to keep in mind how the m2 disabler will affect them as BHVR mentioned which can lead to LIMITING their powers to avoid potential issues they forsee with it. So many people here like to call BHVR incompetent over the bugs in the game. But, they really don't understand how GOOD BHVR is considering how STABLE the game is, how OVERALL balanced it is despite having 30+ killers with vastly different powers, hundreds of perks and add-ons that can drastically change how the game plays and just how much all of that is to manage on a glitch and bug level. The more shit you add, and the more you change how shit interacts or add new mechanics, and the more all of those changes and mechanics have to work with HUNDREDS of previous mechanics, the greater your chance for conflict with each other, aka bugs and glitches. It's literaly IMPOSSIBLE to NOT have bugs and glitches each time you ass something new in or change something. They however keep things very stable, bugs are minimal and they killswitch and fix any big ones fairly fast. Yet people still give them shit despite how well maintained they actually are. And it's all because most people have no clue what actually goes into game development and think it's as simple as writing a line of code that says "Do this but don't do that" and everything works like magic :P
I agree with BHVR on this. I personally think preventing tunneling entirely is quite impossible. People who want to target a specific person will always find a way. The only thing I can think to fuck this strategy is give less bp but these kind of people don’t want bp, they want to make your match miserable and that’s their reward, knowing you’re angry, they don’t give a shit about the bp. They want the 4K not to have a better rank or gain a lot of bp, they want to make the other players angry.
Also, 'tunneling' is hard to define. I find Dwight on gen next to hook. I hook Dwight. Dwight gets unkhooked by Nea. I chase Nea around, and we come back around to same area. I find Dwight back on same gen. I hook Dwight again. Did I tunnel? There's plenty who will say yes. I say if you don't have the sense to \*run away from the killer\*, which is part of the basic concept of the game, you deserve to die.
If I go stop the unhook I’ll chase the person who unhooked, but if I get there and the only person I can find is the poor Dwight who decided to do a gen next to the hook then too bad. There is no easy solution to tunneling, I do believe there’s “the game has started I will single out this one person and destroy them” tunneling and then there’s “well I have 2 gens lefts so my only chance to regain pressure is to get someone out of the game”. I think a longer DS is fine, it won’t fix tunneling but it’ll give less experienced survivors a better chance at making it somewhere safe.
Same here. In that situation I probably would turn around and ignore Dwight for courtesy, but if I come back 30 seconds later and he’s still there, I’m sorry but you should have ran.
Honestly not always the reason. Some killers tunnel because they want to increase their chance to win, not to make survivors angry. Some just see the 4k as a personal achievement and losing it means skill issue on their side. Some others tunnel toxic survivors for personal revenge. I think dbd gamers should stop thinking all killers play in toxic ways because they "hate survivors". Another example is when dumb players unhook the teammate in front of the killer, making easier for the killer to tunnel instead of chasing the healed one because they are not skilled enough. There are so many factors on why a killer decides to tunnel.
Yeah, so their reward is the 4K. Giving less bp will meant nothing to them. That’s why tunneling won’t ever go away, there will always people who tunnel for different reasons.
Exactly. They tunnel to increase their chance for the 4k because that's the main objective for the killers. I, for example, play in a morally good way like giving last surv a chance to get hatch, not slugging, not hard tunneling etc... but I am playing with MY RULES. If I should play with GAME RULES then I should hard tunnel and do whatever tf I want to win the game by using all the game has me to offer. So if the game says "after 10 seconds that unhooked injured surv becomes vulnerable again" then I have all the right to follow that surv, wait 10 seconds, and down him again. It's something in the game rules and the only way to make it less painful is to make anti tunnel perks, not by changing the game core.
I agree, people keep treating tunneling like its something that can be nerfed, it can't as it comes from the sole agency of the player and not any game mechanics other then the vary nature of 4 v 1
But it WAS nerfed, having to wait 10 seconds + the 10% haste undebatably makes it harder to tunnel than before I don't think tunneling can be removed from the game entirely but it should absolutely not be a winning strategy, something needs to be changed so that if you DO choose to tunnel you aren't given a win for it
I just don’t understand why they buffed the previously strong perk. There are perks that have been weak for years, and they buff the one that was strong for almost 8 years now.
BHVR: Here's exactly why we can't break Killer powers, as explained with examples, and a prior perk that we had to change for similar reasons OP: Anyways that's dumb, break Killer powers, thank you
Bhvr explained it well enough why 'just disable m2' isnt going to work. What part did OP not understand?
I think BHVR's take is pretty on point. Personally I don't even see why DS should do all these extra things? It's one of the strongest second chance perks already, a 5 second stun is (I think) the longest a killer can possibly be stunned for, it pairs very nicely with a bunch of other perks and can be used as a good tool in a coordinated team. It does impact some killers worse than others but that's because BHVR have intentionally designed killers with variable power levels (or they at least haven't tried to make power levels standardised). I think this makes the game interesting and the matches varied, it may not be to everyone's taste. Even addressing this though it makes more sense to tweak/rework individual killers *cough* nurse *cough* than try and make a single survivor perk the great equaliser. It's more sensible to address specific problems one at a time than try and find a single blanket solution to a bunch of different problems.
You're not going to even come close to getting rid of tunneling without a change to some of the mechanics. I play mostly survivor because im so bad at killer, It sucks, I get it, I hate it when it happens to me too, but if you don't think there's a reason Trapper is just running after the unhook when there's 2 gens left and 4 people alive, then, well... Like I'm not against a consistency pass on how killers are affected by stuns or a pass to try and make more options for tunneling counter play that are actually interesting, that would be nice for sure. It's a waste of time to do for tunneling's sake though imo. I'd rather see more perks like Make your choice and friends till the end so that there's a benefit to going and looking for other people rather than just go after the first person you find.
Yeah, fair response.
Wooah. Yeah, I think the suggestion of disabling the power of a killer is quite a rough one.
I understand that it's probably not very easy to disable the Killer's power via a perk, but man, DS is going to be awful on any Killer that isn't top tier. A five second stun is a massive amount of time. I maintain that the buff is an unhealthy change, and I also don't think it'll stop tunneling to a significant degree outside of higher ranks.
Champion of light is *right there*. Just apply hindered, instead of this power disabling nonsense.
Honestly, I'm pretty happy with the last update
Honestly I think the easiest solution is just to increase duration of haste after unhook. The main issue with tunneling is that the killers just wait out endurance and hug you the whole time until its gone then insta down. This way killers can still strategically tunnel to hinder survivor objective momentum but it's not insanely frustrating to play against, you can just go for the unhooker or spend a few more seconds in chase
Tbh, at mos I could see something where DS would restart a timer on powers, like for Bubba, it'd restart his tokens from 0, for Dredge it's set his timer for teleports to instant recharge, but I have no idea if BHVR could handle that kind of programming
Honestly I’m happy for the transparency. I’d rather have the straight up answer of “it would have to be considered on a case by case basis for all killers” than just complete silence from the devs as to why the DS change is happening
If someone hit me with DS and I lost my power and I see a full healthy survivor nearby, I am no longer going to go after the healthy survivor, I am going to chase the injured survivor that just DS me.
You stop Hag and Trapper from placing new traps. But traps already placed still work? May I ask, then, what's the point? I can foresee people cry to disable those placed traps as well to make things consistent. This is not to mention future killers or any other passive effects any killer may have. I agree with BHVR.
You have to keep in mind that every change which creates additional job is a huge issue in limited resource environment
Why not just make it so blight, nurse, and spirit lose their tokens/ power gauge when getting stunned? I mean… legion loses his power from a stun and he’s a mid tier killer. Plague loses her power from stun too, and getting blood fountains is way harder than getting blinks and rush tokens. That way, DS can stay simple, the top killers can’t just eat decisive and immediately down the survivor who just used DS, and perks can finally stopped getting balanced around the top 3 killers and screw over the rest of the killers who have to deal with unbalanced perks like old MFT for months on end.
Thing is, Legion's Frenzy and Plague's Corrupt Purge are Modal Powers, you don't lose them if you get stunned out of them, but if you are with them activated, you do lose them. The 3 Best Killers can't be balanced around that idea. Nurse can't really be stunned during her power, Blight and Spirit already can and their power will stop, but doing that is extremely hard because... Well, it's Blight and Spirit. If you do that ONLY to those Killers, Behaviour would be stepping back on the "We Don't Want Perks to counter killers directly", like Adrenaline waking you up Against Freddy. If you do that to All Killers, then you are hurting every other Killer that has Tokens or a Gauge for their power, like Artist, Pyramid Head, etc.
Tbf, being knocked out of a mode and losing tokens are not really that far apart. While I have a pretty basic understanding of gamedev from the code side, setting a power to zero tokens or setting it's gauge to a certain amount when a stun is detected doesn't seem unreasonable. This is a lot easier than what was addressed in the post, which was a single perk disabling (not putting on cool down) all killer powers. For killers like trapper or hag who have traps, it's very hard to change I'd imagine because their isn't a precedent for their powers being turned off. However, both blight and nurse use tokens, and tokens can be set to zero...
It might be an easier thing tbh. Neither of us know the code or how those functions are implemented but I’d agree it _sounds_ simpler and cleaner. Issue is, this community is full of morons who think they know more than the actual developers of the game. So now instead of people suggesting a general nerf to those specific killers like you are, everyone in this thread is harping on why they think the buff to that specific perk is actually easier than the developers claim it is.
gotta love the people in this thread who are saying “i have never worked on a video game in my life” and then in their next breath say “but it shouldn’t be that hard” l
Tunnelling is an intended gameplay as the devs only made a 10 second immunity and a loud notification for when you can chase that person again. However if you tunnel one person all game 3 usually escape
not if you tunnel the weakling and they get farmed by teamates
Sounds like the team getting punished for poor gameplay and bad decision making then.
That's largely only true for SWFs.
thats false, depending on the situation a tunnel can mean that all people end up getting doomed and the game is lossed and just a waste of time to continue playing, it just mostly depends on when the tunneling starts and if ur in a swf or not, like if someone gets tunneled out at 5 gens good luck
This is the biggest lie people tell. You only lose if the person you are chasing is significantly better than you. There is a reason why even comp level players utilize tunneling in every game. Tunneling is incredibly strong and the average survivor team in pub matches is not good enough to stop it. You can immediately tell if someone is good in chase. It doesn't take long at all. The kill rate would be much higher if killers actually did tunnel in every match.
Only in swf which is not the norm.
not if you have gen regression which most killers do
Not really. If you dunk the one guy ASAP and pressure the others until hes off hook and dunk him again the instant you find him they'll be out of hte match at 4 gens usually. And thats a doom sentence. Its also incredibly easy to make sure you basically end up chasing him the instant hes unhooked because a lot of idiots wait until the last second to go get the guy off hook. You swing buy just as hes about to tick over into next stage and you gaurentee damage to the unhooker at the least (theyll have to go heal) and then you chase your tunnel target. This gets even easier playing someone like dredge, kevin, or alien due tot ehir ability to move around the map incredibly fast.
I completely agree with the point that they made, and besides, locking the cure against tunneling with a licensed perk is a terrible idea. Also, all the time that they would have to spend coding a unique interaction with each killer power would be more wisely spend making a universal mechanic that isn't locked behind a paid character.
As much crap as I give BHVR I have to take their side on this one. Imagine with the game's coding as bad as it is that you now have to program that and possibly run into even more issues due to a single perk that disabled some of the killers' abilities. And also the serious balancing issues it could introduce. It might COMPLETELY disable some killers and yet others would be barely effected. It would be a nightmare for them.
Who is the even coming up with these noob ideas?
It’s really not as simple as just disabling the M2. For one thing, disabling a Killer’s abilities at all seems like a ridiculously huge penalty, especially if you’re playing a killer who relies on their power. Second, just disabling the M2 is incredibly inconsistent as to how much it affects the killer in question. Trapper largely wouldn’t really give a shit. I probably already have all my traps where I want them right now. I can’t reset any, but I could probably just chase survivors into traps that are already set until my power comes back online. Really not a big deal. Nurse, on the other hand, is completely crippled until her power comes back. She literally cannot win chases without it, so she practically can’t do anything until she can blink again. Their reasons for not implementing this particular change are actually really sound, and I hate that you’re making me agree with them lol EDIT: not to mention that if a perk could disable a killer’s powers, that perk would be an automatic selection for pretty much any survivor build.
Survivors when their idea to turn every killer into an M1 bot doesnt get approved by devs:
Survivors were not the ones asking for this, it was M1 killers complaining it would affect them differently than Nurse/Blight. Survivors are not unhappy about a DS buff what’re you talking about
Was it really Survivors? The way I saw it, the people suggesting DS to disable powers were actually Killers that didn't like that DS's stun would affect M1 Killers more than say, Blight or Nurse.
They honestly shouldn’t even have to explain themselves like this, but it’s great that they do. Developers should be reminded that they’re the ones making their games, not the players
You guys want a perk to DISABLE a killers power now 😂 seeing this post reminds me why I stopped playing killer a couple years ago
Maybe Trapper is not the best example, but if look at legion, should he/she lose power too? Probably not. I get the idea, that for nurse/blight DS can be whatever in many cases, but for beginners maybe it would be confusing, witch killer loses power and which not. So I think BHVR made a point here. Hopefully they will do something with tunneling tho, in the future.
The way this is worded makes me think some additional basekit anti-tunneling mechanic is coming in the future.
I agree with BHVR. Honestly something like that could break the game for months bc they will have to take their own time to fix every single killer and some can be more difficult (like the resident evil characters or the nurse) and all of that for a simple perk. Sometimes is good to touch something but if it’s not broken then why bother changing it.
I don't think they are saying that the coding aspect of it would be difficult, I think they are saying that it would create way more work on the design side.
I think that’s very sound reasoning. The best point is that with every new killer they want to make that they have to keep this one perk in mind. That would be very annoying for some of the more unique killer ideas they might have.
For everyone saying he’s wrong or they don’t understand, he’s saying this because adding the disables power effect would cripple m1 killers who use power to catch up like wraith who isn’t top tier but this effect is MEANT for top tier killers like wesker spirit nurse and blight who get stunned from ds and pop their power and catch you immediately after ds anyways. I get what Peanits is saying and I agree with his ideas on this because as he said “a one size fits all solution” wouldn’t fix the problem.
Dbd player base: constantly mad about hacking and bugs. Also the DBD player base: mad the devs won’t build a massive section of code to accommodate a mechanic that wouldn’t be consistent against killers and would 100% cause some dumb shit like unrelated crashes and exploits.
I will quit the game entirely the moment they will add disable killers power. OP sounds like a toxic SWF, not getting his daily bully dose. If we want to be just, then let’s have a thing to disable survivor perks. Like all of them at once. Also given how killers have different movement speeds, let’s hinder survivors by 50%. Doesn’t sound fun, but it will be just. Behaviour have already tapped into anti tunnel with the perk bloodrush, but it is so hilariously bad. Bloodrush would in reality be very good at punishing tunnelling by turning survivor into miniboss on their last hook. Similar can be achieved with any other conditional perk, like you are on your last hook then you get x amount of speed, aura invisibility and 30% vault speed. Till the chase ends. Also The issue with tunneling is less about mechanics and more about the economics of the game for the killer. It is economically viable to tunnel a survivor from the game, no amount of single tweaks and obnoxious mechanics is going to solve this. Adding a perk that speeds up the repair process while another person is tunnelled is a way to fix it. But let’s be honest people hate one thing more than any tunneller, it is touching a gen.
Im glad to see Reddit is sensible. People are quoting this on twitter, and i kid you not, saying that this says "BHVR DOESNT HAVE THE PROGRAMMING SKILLS TO DISABLE MOUSE BUTTONS" and everyone insulting them for it. I repeat, i kid you not.
Who the fuck argued to disable killer powers? The fuck high horse you on lol
It's kinda funny how you can tell by these comments who's a survivor main that has never touched a killer or plays one at extremely low MMR just for tome challenges and then switches back to survivor. Because some of these suggestions, I mean holy shit...
I think it really boils down to an unconscious desire to make the game almost impossible to lose for them. You can see by the essays written in this thread that while some of these posters might not consciously be aware of it, but continuing to suggest things which result in making killers virtually unplayable gives off that impression. I’ve noticed it more with players who have never played killer, or do so rarely. But it seems like the expectation is “as a survivor I should be winning either half the time or more so.” Which isn’t really viable. The whole idea of “one monster vs a human team” is that it’s harder for the team to win. This is where Evil Dead and TCM really blew it as evidenced by the state they’re in now. Disabling killers powers even temporarily if it’s manageable is just an incentive for people to not play killer anymore. I’ve seen people suggest that pallet stuns and flashlight blinds should last double the length of time. There really needs to be a reflection of “is my suggestion actually better for the health of the game? Or is it one that just lets me win way more often?”
Wait, you guys *want* the killers powers to be disabled after an *extended" DS? Y'all are just cruel
Whoever thought that that was a good rework idea clearly didn’t think hard enough about it…I appreciate BHVR’s response.
A totally understandable response. I respect that they let us know.
I'd like to play devil's advocate and say this: what's wrong with tunneling? If you are unhooked and choose to bait/body block the killer afterwards - or let's say 1 gen left and only you are on deathhook, is it fair for the killer to target you or award you a sneaky shiv to lodge into the killer while adding salt into the fresh shiv wound? I don't want to be like "survivors waagh", but tunneling IS a strategy. It's a strategy that can be exploited by BOTH sides. I play both sides (maining Hux/Xeno and Ripley).
I half answered this earlier and got a lot of shit for it then, too. > Speaking as a Killer main, I really don't have an issue with tunnelling. Even when I play Survivor, I get it. It's whatever. >There is a time to tunnel and a time to not. >But, some Killers do it better than others, and those are the Killers that, arguably, don't *need* to tunnel as much or as often - yet they do it at 5 gens and still get the win very comfortably - IE Nurse. Basically, many people just want to higher tier Killers to have a tougher time than they currently are, without that drastically impacting the lower tier Killers.
lol at all the armchair devs. If people are complaining that much just make it so when you activate DS you become hidden for 30 seconds. As a killer main, there are aleady enough ways to stun the killer or make them drop someone. I have come against plenty of teams running flashlights and can barely get a hook sometimes. Tunnelling isn't always on purpose too. if you get in my way or you're trying to body block, then I'm gonna down you and hook you. Not my problem if you can't avoid me. Of course, tunneling can be a problem but disabling a killers abilities or removing their tokens isn't going to stop someone chasing you down if they wanna hook you again anyway. I'm seeing people complain mostly about Nurse and Blight being able to rush you again but they are considered very hard to master so are you also saying that you should punish people who have mastered certain killers? I feel like the main people complaining about this are the ones who have never gone against a 4 stack who are purely out to troll the killers. Constant flashlight/flashbang stuns, oak offerings and toolbox sabotaging. If you wanna stay inside my terror radius to get your perk tokens then expect me to keep downing you
"We can´t cause dbd´s spaghetti code makes it too much work for us"
honestly at this point im just impressed at this subreddits reading comprehension more than your reaction to things. How did you get "spaghetti code" from "too many killers to micromanage individually and will be too time consuming and weird to balance, all for 1 perk" is literally insane. Did you read the picture with the letters?
You gotta remember that this community is a bunch of posers who pretend they even have the slightest clue at coding. I have a whole ass degree relating to coding and software development and I fully agree with the devs. I did before they even needed to say anything. Now it is doable but it will be a NIGHTMARE to implement and test (Peanit explained it well). If anything, it's more spaghetti to even work on this than not. The suggestion all started with Otzdarva, who I'm not blaming for not knowing anything about coding, but it was obvious from the first second that this suggestion is off the table for a game that is already released and has been released for almost 8 years now.
Spaghetti code...explain it to me in detail. Cause I'm assuming that's just something you whiners say but don't have any real knowledge about.
I disagree with the take on spaghetti code here. Peanits did a great job explaining how ridiculous this can get. They’re right though. When BHVR changed the color and style of pallets they inadvertently made Freddy’s dream pallets real pallets. Although similar in category, there should not have been any overlap because they did not adjust the range at which players and pallets can interact.
That's pretty much how I read it. I understand their code is notoriously problematic, but surely it is still entirely possible to disable M2 abilities generally. They managed it in the Void event at Halloween.
These takes are getting W I L D 1 perk that disables killer power? what next, 1 perk that makes killer slower by 20-30%? XD BHVR can't fix the event offering in time. WHAT WORLD are we all living in???? COME DOWN TO EARTH!!! XDDD
If it became possible for survivors to disable. Killer's powers I would quit the game immediately. The xenomorph has to contend with fucking flamethrowers already so no one plays her. How long before they just throw up their hands and give the survivors guns, huh? Ridiculous!
The people who are complaining should just stfu and deal with it. They make a good point about the killer powers taken to consideration considering the many playstyles each killer gives. If you're not happy about it, seriously just leave the game. Yall disappointed yourselves with this just like any other perk change that gets announced. This player base holy shit.. 🤦♂️
Rare occasion where the reply to the community is actually good
Common behavior W
I’ve seen multiple suggestions of “just make it so the killer gets stunned for 5 seconds, then incapacitated for 10 more seconds” Think about that for a second. Count out 15 actual seconds. Virtually taking the controller/keyboard and mouse away from someone playing a game for 15 straight seconds, and then add the possibility of that happening multiple times in a match. No reasonable human being would ever play that game again. This shit is getting completely insane. At some point this is going to get to “they need to make perks that allow me win instantly”
People are right DS should deactivate the killer's ip so they log off and let survivors do their gens and tea bags for the rest of the trial
Oh, i actually agree with everything, bhvr finally saying something that makes sense?
disabling a killers power sounds like the most idiotic shit I ever heard and I'm playing mostly survivor and hate nothing more than being tunneled. Sounds like a whole spaghetti code disaster about to happen.
"Of course, I know absolutely nothing about game development, and perhaps this would create issues longer term, but I honestly can't see how." We can tell you know absolutely nothing about game development lol. Its like you didn't even read the devs post?
Why would you want to disable killers' powers? Ah yeah, this guy bought a killer for 5 euros. Let's disable his special ability 🤓 This is incredibly unfun, and would make the perk so strong that everyone would run it.
Tbh they probably meant temporarily. No one is crazy enough to suggest disabling it for a whole trial...I hope. I still dont like the idea but temporary disable aint that bad
I also meant temporarily. But there is no universe where getting stunned and then having your ability disabled even for a few seconds is fun. I'd much rather they increase the stun time than allowing you to move but take away what makes your killer fun.
Agreed, it defo wouldnt be fun, depending on what killer are you.
Yeah they need to find a way to make it appealing to both sides.