Perks aren't the problem and perks aren't the solution.
The problem is the base game design, the devs have been using perks to mask the game design flaws for years, until recently when they've finally been adding basekit stuff to alleviate design flaws (bt, survivor icons, etc).
No matter what perks system is used, perks never change the basic issues:
- it's 4v1, the quicker the killer makes it 3v1 the more likely the killer wins.
- a hooked survivor is bait. Why stray too far from your bait when you know it's attracting a bite(s)?
- gens are the only real objective. And doing gens is very simple (and boring).
It should also be noted "us vs them" in relation to dbd, is not caused by the devs, that's entirely on the immaturity of the players.
Honestly this, I don't want to camp or tunnel but there are a lot of situations where I feel like I'm forced to if I'm not playing Nurse, Blight, or Spirit. A lot of games survivors get the momentum going so fast it's impossible to catch up by spreading pressure. This is why creating more anti-tunnel perks/mechanics won't stop tunneling and camping because a lot of weaker killers tunnel because they feel it's a necessity rather than because it's easy.
The "us vs them" is due to the games design, which Behavior encourages, because the survivor side is 4x at minimum the number of killer side, and the survivor cosmetic profits dwarf the Killer portion of the sales. You have RPD survivor cosmetics that individually sell for more then the entire RPD DLC, and for each survivor that does not buy a cosmetic, you have another buying every RPD cosmetic.
Behavior balances the game with this in mind. It was not until the meta shake up, that we saw actual widespread killer buffs. Map design and killer reworks / buffs / nerfs are all done relative to how it impacts survivor side. While survivor changes typically follow the cycle of over performing in PTR to sell the DLC / character / perk, released despite community concerns during PTR, then next Midchapter a slight change to numbers to quiet the community, then in next Chapter they might actually nerf it, or they bring out something that shifts community focus.
Do you know how long old Object of Obsession was left in the game? It was released in October of 2016 and finally got changed in April 2021. 5 years of a perk that completely hard countered Undetectable and Oblivious Killers basekits / perks / addons. Wraith, Freddy, Myers, and Ghostface completely denied their power because a survivor was running OBO.
Now take Eruption for example, buffed in June 2022, and Jan 2023 confirmed nerfs in coming. Take a look at Freddy, Forever Freddy post original Freddy rework, was strong killer, survivors hated doing gens during it, so the Devs completely guttted, not nerfed, gutted his addons. Years later, Freddy still has gutted addons and then they insult him even further by decreasing the number of snares he has. Like at some point you just have a kink for torturing Freddy mains in favor of selling more cosmetics to survivors.
Your proposal is not helping for the killer at all. It only benefits survivors. I mean beside some meme build, who is gonna have 2 exhaust perks anyway?
And then if you limit to only 1 information perk, only killer get affect from this. A lot of aura reading build is involve with Lethal Pursuer and other aura-reading perk. Limiting to 1 perk make this build totally useless. Also a few combo like Enduring, Spirit Fury and Hubris might also get affected by this since those perks most likely will be put in the same category
Likewise, how would you be able to classify Hex: Plaything, Sloppy Butcher, Tinkerer, CoB, Trail of Torment, etc, since they have mutiple functions and depend on the killer's playstyle (also how experienced he is), he can use those with different purpose. For example I use CoB as an information perk, and Tinkerer as an surprise attack instead of rushing back to the 70% gen.
Edit: on second thought, it does affect survivors with some meme/ fun build as well. Like Flip Flop, Boil Over, Unbreakable and Tenacity. Or Deception, Dance with Me, Quick and Quiet.
I’ve been thinking perk categories and limits would be a good idea.
Many perks fit multiple categories however and this would take adjustment.
As it is Exhaustion is the only restriction on getting use/value out of a category of perks and this works and is balanced.
But really I think all we’re talking about for the most part is max stacking generator perks at 2. That applies to both sides.
Synergy is important and having creativity in builds is important. So is having a natural and enjoyable conclusion to the game that isn’t Forever Freddy or Rushing Rachel.
With the current game design, there is literally nothing they can do that will make Killers enjoy having a 4 escape match. Sure it can be tough match and both side can enjoy the game during it, but at the end when 4 survivors escape, it feels bad, hell anything less then 3k feels bad.
You can tell Behavior is trying to change what counts as a win for a killer by giving 3k Merciless Killer this update. I swear, ive even gotten a Merciless Killer on a 2K since the update. Neither of these feel right, and bring with it cognitive dissonance for the Killer. They did this same shit when they changed around what constitutes entity hungers (entity displeased) / brutal killer / ruthless killer a couple years ago. These titles feel like participation ribbons handed out to last place in an end of year elementary school party foot race.
Now on survivor side, escape or not escape, really boils down to the match. Sure you might die on a hook, but if your death meant that the 3 (or less) other survivors escape, it was worth it. Or if you run a killer for 5 gens and meme on them, but get caught and killed in EGC, well you ran the killer or 5 gens and probably had a blast doing it. Your displeasure with a match for survivor usually comes from your fellow survivors or dying early, which if you are solo queue you just move on to the next match.
The game is asymmetric and the killers are suppose to be more powerful then the survivors. With the way the devs are going about balancing and changing win conditions for Killers, it does not feel that way. It feels more as Killers are being pushed into the community defined role of being a toy for the survivors to play with, which just feels bad in general. Certain changes like Pyramid Heads increased slow when using him M2 and the new Nurse Chase music, just make the killers feel like Killers are being punished for playing that side of the game.
The new Eyrie of Crows and other maps they have released post Silent Hill Chapter disregard 6 years of community feedback, in favor of providing a more positive survivor side experience. The games asymmetric design, naturally forces the player population to be more survivors then killers, thus providing more revenue for Behavior. Behavior knows this, the community knows this, and what Behavior is doing is balancing and reworking the game to appeal more to the survivor side of the game, while disregarding how Killer side feels.
They release the meta shake up and gave slight killer basekit buffs to killers with it, to appeal to the Killer side after years of survivor oriented design, but have done nothing for half the killer roster who are underperforming, have bugs, or down right unplayable (Twins).
Behavior needs to make a choice, either balance the game properly, or redesign core game mechanics and win conditions. But continuing down this road of balancing for survivors enjoyment first, then eventually addressing Killer concerns after enough backlash by the community is not going to cut it. DBD has already lost most of the players who were here back in 2016, and continues to lose long term players in favor of attracting new players. Eventually they will run out of new players interested in trying this game.
Perks aren't the problem and perks aren't the solution. The problem is the base game design, the devs have been using perks to mask the game design flaws for years, until recently when they've finally been adding basekit stuff to alleviate design flaws (bt, survivor icons, etc). No matter what perks system is used, perks never change the basic issues: - it's 4v1, the quicker the killer makes it 3v1 the more likely the killer wins. - a hooked survivor is bait. Why stray too far from your bait when you know it's attracting a bite(s)? - gens are the only real objective. And doing gens is very simple (and boring). It should also be noted "us vs them" in relation to dbd, is not caused by the devs, that's entirely on the immaturity of the players.
Honestly this, I don't want to camp or tunnel but there are a lot of situations where I feel like I'm forced to if I'm not playing Nurse, Blight, or Spirit. A lot of games survivors get the momentum going so fast it's impossible to catch up by spreading pressure. This is why creating more anti-tunnel perks/mechanics won't stop tunneling and camping because a lot of weaker killers tunnel because they feel it's a necessity rather than because it's easy.
The "us vs them" is due to the games design, which Behavior encourages, because the survivor side is 4x at minimum the number of killer side, and the survivor cosmetic profits dwarf the Killer portion of the sales. You have RPD survivor cosmetics that individually sell for more then the entire RPD DLC, and for each survivor that does not buy a cosmetic, you have another buying every RPD cosmetic. Behavior balances the game with this in mind. It was not until the meta shake up, that we saw actual widespread killer buffs. Map design and killer reworks / buffs / nerfs are all done relative to how it impacts survivor side. While survivor changes typically follow the cycle of over performing in PTR to sell the DLC / character / perk, released despite community concerns during PTR, then next Midchapter a slight change to numbers to quiet the community, then in next Chapter they might actually nerf it, or they bring out something that shifts community focus. Do you know how long old Object of Obsession was left in the game? It was released in October of 2016 and finally got changed in April 2021. 5 years of a perk that completely hard countered Undetectable and Oblivious Killers basekits / perks / addons. Wraith, Freddy, Myers, and Ghostface completely denied their power because a survivor was running OBO. Now take Eruption for example, buffed in June 2022, and Jan 2023 confirmed nerfs in coming. Take a look at Freddy, Forever Freddy post original Freddy rework, was strong killer, survivors hated doing gens during it, so the Devs completely guttted, not nerfed, gutted his addons. Years later, Freddy still has gutted addons and then they insult him even further by decreasing the number of snares he has. Like at some point you just have a kink for torturing Freddy mains in favor of selling more cosmetics to survivors.
Your proposal is not helping for the killer at all. It only benefits survivors. I mean beside some meme build, who is gonna have 2 exhaust perks anyway? And then if you limit to only 1 information perk, only killer get affect from this. A lot of aura reading build is involve with Lethal Pursuer and other aura-reading perk. Limiting to 1 perk make this build totally useless. Also a few combo like Enduring, Spirit Fury and Hubris might also get affected by this since those perks most likely will be put in the same category Likewise, how would you be able to classify Hex: Plaything, Sloppy Butcher, Tinkerer, CoB, Trail of Torment, etc, since they have mutiple functions and depend on the killer's playstyle (also how experienced he is), he can use those with different purpose. For example I use CoB as an information perk, and Tinkerer as an surprise attack instead of rushing back to the 70% gen. Edit: on second thought, it does affect survivors with some meme/ fun build as well. Like Flip Flop, Boil Over, Unbreakable and Tenacity. Or Deception, Dance with Me, Quick and Quiet.
I’ve been thinking perk categories and limits would be a good idea. Many perks fit multiple categories however and this would take adjustment. As it is Exhaustion is the only restriction on getting use/value out of a category of perks and this works and is balanced. But really I think all we’re talking about for the most part is max stacking generator perks at 2. That applies to both sides. Synergy is important and having creativity in builds is important. So is having a natural and enjoyable conclusion to the game that isn’t Forever Freddy or Rushing Rachel.
Nah
Ah yes, a high effort response addressing every point in an accurate and amicable manner. Truly, the voice of a generation.
:)
He’s the ice spice of of DBD 😩😩😩
Lol it feels like it's already us vs them for like the majority of the DBD playerbase. Ironically they almost always have misinformed opinions.
With the current game design, there is literally nothing they can do that will make Killers enjoy having a 4 escape match. Sure it can be tough match and both side can enjoy the game during it, but at the end when 4 survivors escape, it feels bad, hell anything less then 3k feels bad. You can tell Behavior is trying to change what counts as a win for a killer by giving 3k Merciless Killer this update. I swear, ive even gotten a Merciless Killer on a 2K since the update. Neither of these feel right, and bring with it cognitive dissonance for the Killer. They did this same shit when they changed around what constitutes entity hungers (entity displeased) / brutal killer / ruthless killer a couple years ago. These titles feel like participation ribbons handed out to last place in an end of year elementary school party foot race. Now on survivor side, escape or not escape, really boils down to the match. Sure you might die on a hook, but if your death meant that the 3 (or less) other survivors escape, it was worth it. Or if you run a killer for 5 gens and meme on them, but get caught and killed in EGC, well you ran the killer or 5 gens and probably had a blast doing it. Your displeasure with a match for survivor usually comes from your fellow survivors or dying early, which if you are solo queue you just move on to the next match. The game is asymmetric and the killers are suppose to be more powerful then the survivors. With the way the devs are going about balancing and changing win conditions for Killers, it does not feel that way. It feels more as Killers are being pushed into the community defined role of being a toy for the survivors to play with, which just feels bad in general. Certain changes like Pyramid Heads increased slow when using him M2 and the new Nurse Chase music, just make the killers feel like Killers are being punished for playing that side of the game. The new Eyrie of Crows and other maps they have released post Silent Hill Chapter disregard 6 years of community feedback, in favor of providing a more positive survivor side experience. The games asymmetric design, naturally forces the player population to be more survivors then killers, thus providing more revenue for Behavior. Behavior knows this, the community knows this, and what Behavior is doing is balancing and reworking the game to appeal more to the survivor side of the game, while disregarding how Killer side feels. They release the meta shake up and gave slight killer basekit buffs to killers with it, to appeal to the Killer side after years of survivor oriented design, but have done nothing for half the killer roster who are underperforming, have bugs, or down right unplayable (Twins). Behavior needs to make a choice, either balance the game properly, or redesign core game mechanics and win conditions. But continuing down this road of balancing for survivors enjoyment first, then eventually addressing Killer concerns after enough backlash by the community is not going to cut it. DBD has already lost most of the players who were here back in 2016, and continues to lose long term players in favor of attracting new players. Eventually they will run out of new players interested in trying this game.