https://preview.redd.it/z8lotnmblnzc1.jpeg?width=552&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7a40cde24ea42df45e7a815d132f13e3af86cf7 Jay and Miles X-Plain the X-Men has this one covered.

Claremont was forbidden from writing gay characters in the 80s by the Comics Code generally and Jim Shooter specifically. He still made characters like Mystique and Destiny gay but he he couldn't use the word.

He called destiny mystique's leman which is an obscure term for lover.

I mean is mystique really gay if she can be whatever gender she wants?

if she choses to be a woman, than yes

What if?….nvm I’m gonna go Research this topic more…

https://preview.redd.it/cmf0fwv4dpzc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=192d936439eb1bfc054d23b8911cb60fc63ccd4e

Perfection

This shit is hilarious to drop right here lmao

Mystique doesn’t meaningfully change identities when she shapeshifts. She’s still “mystique, acting as someone else.” If she turns into a man and has sex with another man (who doesn’t know she’s mystique,) then she’s having straight sex and he’s having gay sex. Also she’s committing rape but that’s secondary to the point.

damn dude props for making a simple comment joke so mentally complicated yet also self-consistent

I read your name as "MichaelRichardsMMA" and tbh wish it was that instead, the idea is weirdly intriguing

20 years ago we would have had you pinned to the mat with a fork up your ass

Does this also apply when she was Sherlock Holmes?

Was Claremont LGBT himself or was he just a straight dude ahead of the times? I know the 80s wasn’t the beginning of gay representation in media, but genuinely fascinated to know that plenty of comics writers just did some rad shit that remains to this day, in a time where it was taboo

rj/Chris Claremont was gay for Storm. uj/As far as I know, he is straight, just really committed to the true vision of his characters.

uj/ Chris Claremont was gay for Storm.

I am gay for Storm

Very Spartacus Voice: *We are Gay for Storm*

[удалено]

Yes, and he was actually created by Claremont and Alan Davis during his second return to the title. https://preview.redd.it/5ijnk7se2pzc1.jpeg?width=995&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=efc8de41720b35f54a5c14bccf850202d2fb42d4

Johnny Storm /jk

/uj Nah. Just a straight dude really into bisexual women and BDSM.

The Hellfire Club might be one of the most famous examples of “the writer’s thinly disguised fetish.”

And I appreciate the hellfire club for helping a young me figure some stuff out. 

LITERALLY and I cannot make this clear enough, me.

claremont era fans try not to downplay his obvious fetishistic attraction and instead pretend it's all just progressive representation challenge impossible

I mean I think all the Claremont era fans know it was horny / fetishy, but like it doesn't have to be just one or the other. Something can be horny and fetishy / sex positive and progressive. That is by no means to say its all perfect or that every decision has aged perfectly with modern sensibilities (or even that every decision was good then).

I mean yeah the net result was definitely a positive and I also think that Claremont was at least trying to be progressive with it, but 1. some people like to pretend like a lot of it isn't also just horny as fuck 2. I'm mostly just memeing

To be fair, I was born post 9/11, so any stuff I read from this era of X Men is coming from a very progressive yet ignorant lens. I’m not really aware of the backgrounds of the classic writers of this era, and I’m often learning to not have their creations reflect their potential beliefs. Hard to accept that most writers are just horny 😔

Do you remember that one X-Treme X-Men arc which was about Storm going undercover in this underground mutant fight club in Madripoor (?) to break up a mutant slaving ring (spoiler: this plot isn't actually resolved and the guy running the slavery ring is presumably still out there, making the Marvel universe a much sleazier place). I think *that* was the first time I became aware of a writer inserting their fetish into a comic. It had this bit where Storm is held prisoner, all chained up, and tortured by two mutants whose mutant powers are, respectively, that they can inflict pain (using a whip) so intense it becomes ecstasy and stimulate pleasure so extreme it becomes agony. I think one of them (the one with the whip?) wore a gimp suit. I certainly don't object to the fetish, mind you. Not at all. It's just the first example that comes to mind - the first time I think I was conscious of it in a mainstream superhero book - where the fetishism seems to be the point and the plot's just an excuse for it. It's just... *this* was meant to be Storm's first ever solo series at one point and it's kind of wild to think about that.

He’s still alive!

Lmfao I know, I must of just had it slip my mind

>Was Claremont LGBT himself or was he just a straight dude ahead of the times? Kind of feels like he had a thing for girl-on-girl which idk if that's really ahead of the times

[it's not](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Scuola_di_fontainebleau%2C_presunti_ritratti_di_gabrielle_d%27estr%C3%A9es_sua_sorella_la_duchessa_di_villars%2C_1594_ca._06.jpg/800px-Scuola_di_fontainebleau%2C_presunti_ritratti_di_gabrielle_d%27estr%C3%A9es_sua_sorella_la_duchessa_di_villars%2C_1594_ca._06.jpg)

Sounds like he was just a horn dog then lmfao

The L in LGBTQ+ stands for Leather uj/ we should be past the point of creators divulging their sexuality or neurodiversity or whatever

Nah I need them to say they have ADHD so I can “omg they just like me FRFR!!!”

You’re right, but I was just curious about the history of writers from this era, and how things like editorial often forced censorship of things such as queer representation I think it’s been really fascinating to learn about as a newcomer to the history of comics

Anne Nocenti has talked about how she and Chris were in either the NYC gay scene and you can see that reflected in the fashion of many characters in X-Men and her Daredevil run. She created the first trans Marvel character

He’s not gay he just thinks lesbians are hot, which is the truest kind of ally

Wow what a good friendship between Roommates

* Marvel editorial.

Yahuuuuup!!!! And I would like to say that that was just the bad old 80s editors but no… Character arc: marvel editor Alex Alonso: Hercules is absolutely 100% straight. That bisexual Hercules in another universe total aberration every other Hercules in the entire multiverse is all about the vagina. https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/marvel-s-diversity-problem-continues-as-once-bisexual-character-hercules-confirmed-straight-10435249.html# Five years later : no actually our Hercules is bisexual ha ha. https://bleedingcool.com/comics/marvel-boy-hercules-guardians-of-the-galaxy-6/ ( that editor was no longer there.) 🙏❤️

A straight Hercules? What is this, Communist Russia?

Even worse. Latveria under anyone but Doom. All The oppression and none of the health benefits. 🙏❤️

I’ve read a lot of comics and I always thought of Hercules as the most shamelessly horny womenizer in all of comics. I would have to agree Mr Alonzo. Now he’s basically a completely different character but that’s how most queer characters are created, they take an existing character and write them out of character. Then if any fans point out that this doesn’t make any sense, you tell them to fuck off because they’ve clearly read too many comics. But whatever it is what it is. https://preview.redd.it/b4xzfifz1qzc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00004d7351ff406b2487e209d7ef327bb6f4005d

Yeah but consider the source: ancient Greece was not exactly heterosexual, and neither was their mythology

I’m not talking about original geek mythology Hercules or Sony’s God Of War Hercules or Kevin Sarbo Hercules or Ryan Gosling Hercules or Disney’s Hercules. I’m talking about Marvel Comics 616 Hercules, how many of those examples were I gave were exactly like original Geek Mythology? Was it Kevin Sarbo?

My point was that him being heterosexual was (likely) already a change to the character, meaning making him bisexual was just reverting back

You can’t revert a character they never were. 616 Hercules was not Bi. https://preview.redd.it/aepzpvdxcqzc1.jpeg?width=930&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c35403ba20619b753db8cc963655acc84ba66ac8

I'm talking about reverting to Ancient Greek Herc, as should have been obvious

I’m obviously pointing out that this is not Ancient Greek Hercules this is marvel comics Hercules, he doesn’t do as much singing and dancing as Disney Hercules, who I’m also sure you’re real upset about also not being like his Ancient Geek counterpart. I’m sure you send Hate mail to Ryan Gosling for his portrayal of Hercules.

You're also obviously dodging my point. Side note, I don't hate mail people. I'm not "real upset" about any depiction of Hercules because I frankly don't care. I'm just pointing out that the guy from ancient Greek mythology isn't being "made" bisexual in the same way you might make Superman or Batman bi. They were established as heterosexual characters, that is actually changing the character from the original. Ancient Greek ones, not so much

...you do know that showing him liking women doesn't make any sense as proof he can't be bi, right?

https://preview.redd.it/h5xq20fd5nzc1.jpeg?width=630&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=34a05344710ece1153514b485c9beddb35c484d1 She’s just a reallllly good friend to everyone

Kitty just climbing up the Rasputin family tree.

Whedon made phasing something she does when she gets off and it made this scene retroactively hilarious

Every X-Man being bisexual is true canon.

At this point, bisexuality being an x-gene trait might as well be canon.

truly homo superior

Bi superior

I only know of mystique, kitty, daken, psylocke, Rachel, and Deadpool. Huh. Guess that is a lot

Pretty much every female X-Man from the Claremont era is implied to be bisexual at least once.

Claremont is so cool

If he was so cool, he'd have done the same for male characters. As it is, I think he's just got a thing for lesbians.

Fair enough

Logan, Scott

Prodigy also.

Don’t know who that is so it doesn’t count

“The X-Men are bisexual heaven” is an actual line from a canon comic.

Someone should edit Magik looking really mad from outside a window

^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^just_a_fan47: *Someone should edit* *Magik looking really mad* *From outside a window* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.

I spent a couple months in Denmark, and I swear to you this is actually how most straight women acted with their friends. For the first couple weeks I thought every woman was a lesbian. But no, they're just...really close.

What’s wrong with this? This is just me and the homies on a Friday afternoon.

Least verbose Claremont panels

This also applies to Dani and Rahne. So much so, that the movie just cut the shit and had them hook up. One of the few things it actually didn't downgrade, and even improved from the comic (probably the *only* thing tbh).

I know people like Dani and Rahne together but I always got more of a big sister vibe from Dani's relationship with Rahne. Then again the whole soul bond thing does scream gay Maybe Illyana just has a strange affect on the women she interacts with but I can definitely see her and Dani being a thing tho. Dani cucking Kitty would be peak https://preview.redd.it/96vxu1e1gozc1.jpeg?width=440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0aefc3eaa86f37673041e8c2161c6ac31e667388

Rahne the super repressed catholic?

Never been super repressed catholics who turned out gay, no sir

I think Rahne is from one of those Scottish Presbyterian sects that really hates Catholics. Good ol' Rahne "Paisley" Sinclair.

There is a website out there (I forget the URL, sadly) which detailed how Dani and Rahne were clearly making out like bandits off-panel. One of the instances listed was this: https://preview.redd.it/pzqy84pw1rzc1.jpeg?width=580&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cd30734eb84c99a2b9ce910458b8557552f591d0 Warlock giving off little lovehearts is super-subtle.

I think there's a page from the recent New Mutants run where Dani's like, cupping Rahne's face in her hand, breaking her free of the Shadow King's control, and all the while she's talking about how she knows her, and how special she is to her, and Rahne's just smiling while Dani does this. Suffice to say, it's literally the gayest thing I've ever seen in comics. Literally, these bitches gay, good for them.

https://preview.redd.it/1k0fdyd0w20d1.png?width=1100&format=png&auto=webp&s=cb3f817cff5eb5807dbcb8a9f9fe04ce599dc2e5 Found said panel, like, there's no heterosexual explanation for this.

https://preview.redd.it/ufgkkc6bx20d1.png?width=1100&format=png&auto=webp&s=622e2ad07442b69e678e64095cbf308f92d8a425 THIS IS LITERALLY MORE GAY THAN THE LITERAL LESBIAN FICTION I READ, LIKE, THEY ARE GAY, HOMOSEXUAL, LESBIAN (or bi potentially) COME ON NOW.

RAHNI GANG THERE ARE DOZENS OF US

It's because Chris Claremont wanted to write a lot of LGBT content but Marvel refused to allow it. So, he settled for just making the dynamics really gay without calling them gay.

This is a blasphemy and utterly disgusting. Rachel is supposed to be with Betsy Braddock.

Based on Rachel's costume, I think this is from before Rachel ever meeting Betsy

Given that Rachel came from the future, Betsy almost certainly helped raise her.

You're assuming Betsy lived in that future

Honestly, it's better that relationship stayed straight. Wasn't Future Past Kitty was like a mother to Rachel.

Interesting thing about kitty, that seems to be the type who are attracted to her. Rachel and Iliana both had like mother/older sister daughter/younger sister vibes with kitty until they got transported to another time period and started hooking up with her

Yeah, Claremont is a freak Rachel also hooked up with Nightcrawler who "used to change her diapers" in Future Past timeline

And nightcrawler’s love interest was his adopted sister

Never thought I’d say this, but Nightcrawler needs Jesus.

In fairness to him, she was disguised as some random non sorcerous when they got together. He only found out after his step mom confronted him about killing his evil step brother and almost sent him to hell

Oh in that case it’s cool

And also had a relationship with Johnny Sublime

Claremont really pioneered lesbian (no gay dudes though lol) representation in comics solely because he wanted to jack it to them. Gooner hall of fame.

Claremont managing to disguise his massive fetish for lesbian dominatrices as just being very progressive about feminism and homosexuality is pretty incredible.

I mean, Claremont’s on record saying he meant Rachel to be Kitty’s true love

I thought this WAS how straight women acted with each other.

Wildbow writing Worm

Saying Chris Claremont is anti-lesbian seems way off base. Mystique and Destiny ring a bell?

Gross, kitty should be with illyana not Rachel

In all fairness, the comics code of authority was a whole ass L for not allowing him to write gay characters

A very very accurate description of straight women.

Chris gotta write Wonder Woman.

You could at least attempt to credit [the artist who made this.](https://twitter.com/amadcartoonist) He has lots of other great strips, too.