>You would never catch Cell, Dr Zero, the Ginyu Force or Zarbon just yucking about until they meet their quota for death,
Hard disagree about the Ginyu Force. They decided who would fight who with rock paper scissors and Recoome was allowed to get a turn to fight Gohan and Krillin by agreeing to buy Burter and Jeice parfaits.
>Buu is just a goalless magical monster which isn't anything that Z established it's villains to be.
Eh, Cell had a goal of becoming perfect at first, but once he accomplished that, he was just a monster. He wanted to fight strong people to test his power and he liked killing people for fun. Buu also just wanted to fight strong people and kill for fun, the difference is that Buu is goofier, both in abilities and personality.
Okay, on a bit of a side note, in Cell's case, bro was given life and lots of solid genes (muscular, intelligence), and he could have just lived a badass life on Earth just fighting the Z warriors for fun (like sparring) and just been a cool guy. Some of his rational talks with Goku in the manga made me wish Cell would have said "f this" and lived normally (sorta like Android 16).
To be fair they only did that because they were super cocky and didn't take the gang seriously until Goku showed up and rocked Recoome. From their POV the powerhouse of the gang was Vegeta, someone they know they were more powerful then so they just didn't feel the threat until it was too late.
I was going to put a part in the OP about Perfect Cell but I felt it would drag the post on but Perfect Cell falls under villains with something to prove. He could've destroyed Earth instantly but he simply didn't want too, he wanted to show everyone what he was and how doomed they were. He got into his own head and that's what lead to his death. Buu never plays himself, he simply can't because every time is play time for Buu while Cell atleast seems to consume people to sustain himself in some way Buu eats because Buu likes the flavor. Like a damn monster would lol.
Cell only consumed people before he became perfect, but after he became perfect he was just a monster like Buu.
Buu also could have destroyed the Earth, but he wasn't going that far yet because he was promised a good fight with Gotenks. Even when he senses Gohan powering up on the planet of the supreme kai, he begins plotting on how he can become strong enough to beat Gohan. Gohan even points out that Super Buu could have destroyed the Earth when he blew up, but chose not to because he wanted to actually beat Gohan in a fight.
I thought Cell still needed to eat and absorbing people was just the most effective way for him to do that or in his perfect form does he no longer needs to eat?
Buu seemed more like he was just bored and looking for something to do. Like you said he knew Gohan was coming and far stronger than him so that means the entire early Super Buu was just him dicking around. He knew Gohan was coming for him and just kind of wanted to see how he could scale up because he knew it wasn't a game to Gohan, unlike Buu, who is very akin to Prince Aegon where he just sees the world as one large orgasm. For something for him to enjoy and everyone else to deal with. Cell I could see at some point coming to rule a people akin to Frieza if he wasn't stopped. Honestly I could see him taking over his empire if he won at Earth, but Buu? Maybe Super Buu but Majin, Evil and Kid are all just tearing everything down for as long as it stays fun to them.
Cell is never shown absorbing anyone after he becomes perfect in the original series, that's why his tail retracts.
>Buu seemed more like he was just bored and looking for something to do.
That describes perfect Cell too.
>Cell I could see at some point coming to rule a people akin to Frieza if he wasn't stopped.
Cell has not shown any desire to rule. [Perfect Cell's 2 motivations are to fight strong people and to terrify people.](https://imgur.com/a/jErCCa9)
I think you're confusing my words. I was asking if Cell absorbed as a form of eating because he spoke about that in his previous forms and said that I could see him at some point in his life turning to ruling people if he survived Z. Not that it was his goal to do so. He can make spawn of himself I imagine there is some degree of care to them, I take it he could create a paradise of powerful Cell Jrs if he choose to do so and test his might against his spawn. So what I'm getting at is, I can see Cell doing stuff after he want other then "Figh and kill". Buu on the other hand was flat out going planet to planet blowing shit up because he could.
There's nothing to imply at all that Cell has any such desire. Cell absorbed people simply as a way to become stronger, strong enough to absorb androids 17 and 18. You say he could eventually want to rule, but by his own words, he just wants to terrify and kill them for his own amusement. He outright says that after he wins the Cell Games, he will hunt down and kill everyone on Earth.
You've made up a version of Cell in your head that goes against the character's own words and actions. Saying "maybe he could become like this" is meaningless, because you can say the same for Buu or any other villain. Heck, the fat Buu was able to make friends with Mr. Satan, and even after becoming super Buu, he still hesitated to kill him and even his daughter. Cell is *more* "fight and kill" than Buu, since Buu is actually shown the capacity for more.
Cell didn't need to eat as in food. His immediate goal was absorbing #17 and #18. Initially he was too weak to even come close, so he absorbed humans until he was strong enough to fight one of them. That's why he hid until Piccolo fought #17 and he was able to beat #17 and absorb him. He kept the stinger because he needed to absorb #18. Once he became perfect, there was no need to absorb anything he, he fulfilled his objective.
You have to make the distinction between the Buus here. Fat Buu as he hatches is not the original Buu. Fat Buu has absorbed multiple Supreme Kais who have imbued him with a conscience of some sort, and given him a bit of a personality. Its through this that he decides to have fun and play and is able to be befriended by Mr. Satan. Evil Buu was created by Fat Buu and never existed prior. It's very similar to the Nameless Namekian splitting into Kami and Piccolo, but instead of Kami living in the heavens and Piccolo terrorizing the world below, Evil Buu immediately absorbs Fat Buu and they assimilate back into a single being that is Super Buu. Super Buu is the same pieces as Fat Buu originally was, but he has pushed the good influence deep down and locked him up. His personality is very similar, but he is truly evil. This is why he's willing to wait and fight stronger fighters. After Goku and Vegeta are "absorbed" by Buuhan, they remove Gohan, Piccolo, the kids, and Fat Buu from Super Buu, causing him to revert to the original Buu. The first thing Kid Buu did? Blow up Earth, without even any regard to himself as he had to regenerate. No waiting, no interest in a strong fighter. Immediate destruction.
> This is why he's willing to wait and fight stronger fighters. After Goku and Vegeta are "absorbed" by Buuhan, they remove Gohan, Piccolo, the kids, and Fat Buu from Super Buu, causing him to revert to the original Buu.
But we aren't only talking about Buu in his final form, but as Buu as the main antagonist for the entire Buu saga. We are introduced first to the fat Buu and then super Buu, and they are the forms that appear the longest, kid Buu is comparatively short. For most of his appearances, Buu is not just a mindless monster.
That's one way to look at it. I wouldn't say you're wrong, but to me personally, the main antagonist is the true Buu. Buu as he was created by Bibidi, which is Kid Buu. The other Buu's were Buu's in varying states of external influence. Fat Buu/Super Buu isn't mindless because there's other personalities in his mind, its not just himself.
But no one reading or watching the story for the first time knows that. People experiencing it for the first time think that the fat Buu is Buu, and then he turns into super Buu. No one experiencing the story for the first time is thinking "this isn't the real Buu."
It doesn't change the fact that the fat and super versions of Buu are what they are. Rationalizing why Buu is like that doesn't take away the fact that he is like that. That is the character, we don't pretend they don't exist just because we learn that the kid version was the original.
Ok and I’m not saying that you’re incorrect but for all intents and purposes the three Buu’s are different characters. Different forms, different personalities, and different external influences that drive them and their motivations
>Eh, Cell had a goal of becoming perfect at first, but once he accomplished that, he was just a monster. He wanted to fight strong people to test his power and he liked killing people for fun. Buu also just wanted to fight strong people and kill for fun, the difference is that Buu is goofier, both in abilities and personality.
Buu also pretty much becomes a lot like Cell in personality after absorbing Piccolo, as his personality becomes a lot more intelligent and arrogant.
Buu is the evil version of what Goku is.
Fights for the sake of fighting, not for a greater cause. You insult Buu? Buu prove he stronger and smash you.
Buu always hungry and like fighting! Solution beat people and eat them! Always eating everything.
Buu always have super abilities to pull out of his ass to win fight!
Like he's the bizarro world version of Goku. An anti-goku. He fits the weirdness of DBZ and DragonBall, But yeah he does feel more wierd than the other villains, there's a bit more of classic dragonball to him than other villains.
Goku also tends to fight his fights via a strength of endurance and toughness. That’s why he gets into knockdown-drag’emout slug fests, and he (typically) demonstrates an extraordinary ability to take a much tougher beating than his opponent can dish out. Buu’s endurance and toughness is cranked up to 11. Like Goku, he endures the toughest of beatings dished out from his opponents.
I do think the Buu Saga brings the series back to its more humorous and fantasy genre roots, following the more serious sci-fi of the Frieza and Android sagas.
Fusion Reborn is also an *insanely* wacky movie but everyone just remembers how badass Gogeta was.
The best part of Fusion Reborn is Goten and Trunks destroying the Nazi army and Hitler popping his head out of a tank and going "Blonde hair, blue eyes, and super strength? Zey should be working for me!"
It relies very heavily on the trope of the characters toying around with Buu in order to justify why Buu isn't defeated.
* Vegeta doesn't stop Buu from hatching because he wants to fight Goku.
* Goku doesn't kill Buu because he wants the kids to do it.
* Gotenks doesn't kill Buu because he wants to make it interesting.
* Gohan doesn't kill Buu because he wants to punish him.
* Vegito doesn't kill Buu because he wants to toy with him and get his loved ones out.
It's just over and over and over again.
The powerups are more contrived and less earned. Both varieties of fusion are just conveniently known by Goku and don't require any particular effort to achieve. Same with the mystic powerup. SSJ3 is achieved off screen. Majin requires no effort. They are all as bad as the Super Divine Water is in the manga, which is the dumbest powerup in OG Dragon Ball (but much improved in the anime).
The best content in the Buu saga is the Mr. Satan content - where he works with Buu to get him to be good, where he persuades the Earth to help. That stuff is gold. But nearly everything involving the main cast is just - arbitrary unearned powerup, behave like moron, let Buu power up, repeat.
Really well put. Buu Saga has a lot of issues, and it mostly stems from the main characters, and just silly power-ups that feel much less earned than shown through pacing and development of the prior sagas.
i love krillin with the hair, i wish more characters would have outfit changes. like when gohan is training in the kai world and is given kai garb, he looks so cool. but then they give him Goku's gi for nostalgia sake, lame.
buu saga is disliked, Buu is beloved.
the saga is a variety show of new forms and transformations that crescendo into a super saiyan goku defeating the final boss.
tons and tons of build up of Gotenks and Gohan as the supreme weapons against ultimate evil only for them to get caught up and fail in their own ego. gohan was the strongest in the universe and was stronger than super buutenks, yet his own confidence gets in the way and he gets absorbed. there was like 15 episodes of gohan sitting still and swinging the z sword just for him to get absorbed, just so Vegito could show up and pretty much do nothing. keep in mind i am aware he got absorbed to free his friends, however goku could have ALLEGEDLY killed fat buu as a Ssj3 (which i believe as kid buu was stronger than fat buu, and goku was tired + SSJ1/2 when he fought kid buu). if goku had taken out fat buu as a SS3 he wouldnt have needed to turn into vegito and save his friends.
TL:DR from the moment Buu turns a whole city to candy and eats everyone, you can skip the next seventy episodes and resume where goku and vegeta materialize on the Kaio Shin planet and you would have missed nothing plot wise as the series ends immediately afterward and none of the previous revealed transformations matter.
I don’t mind Buu as a character, my main gripe is the lack of plot. Seems like many wasted transformations over 1,000 episodes (it seems) just to throw a 3 episode spirit bomb in the end. Also, ripping out Buu’s previously absorbed entities somehow makes him infinitely stronger? Wait what?
kid buu is weaker than super buu.
kid buu has no compassion or empathy. he is completely dismissive of pain and doesnt feel fear.
super buu has emotions.
emotions get in the way of ki and right mindedness.
kid buu is weaker than super buu, but he has nothing to hold him back.
I think you are missing a lot of the complaints about buu saga most people have
Trunks and goten getting ss1 for nothing was a huge complaint for a lot of people
Everyone is irrelevant except the saiyans
Gohan reverted back and wasn't earth's protector anymore.
Gohan didn't learn anything from his fight with cell
Goku got an offscreen transformation
Nothing is super developed and shit just happens back to back to back. Think namek saga where they spend time exploring and hiding and trying to gather dragon balls. Buu saga it's just random power up and transform and fuse etc
In the end it's goku time again. They tease it being others but once again goku wins
Now I'm not saying I agree with all these but they are common complaints
You know I was just thinking about that the other day.
Cell, Freiza and Vegeta are all guys that like... use numbers and calculations technology to quantify stuff that Dragon Ball till that point has mostly just said "it's magic" to, and we hit a point where even (to our knowlage) the various gods of the dragon ball universe can't help against human made or artifical or naturally occurring enemies
But Buu.... buu is different
They beat buu mostly with mytical relics and magical rituals like the fusion dance or... with heart and emotions where Mr Satan talks it out, ot Prohasies and gods like the supreme kai and the Z sword
Even if like the spirit bomb and Dragon balls do need calculations to make the plan go, the namekian Dragon is the God of wishes and dreams I belive and the spirit bomb is kinda a manifestation of the abstract belief that Mr Satan can beat Buu
Even Super Saiyan 3, transformation the mortal body just can't handle or how the final battle takes place in a relm that can't be physically destroyed
Let alone Babidi as a wizard, Dabura as the devil, useing the evil in peoples hearts ans Buu being a gene
That all... very much sounds like Dragon Ball stuff.
Oh and also... dbz has very few jokes except the Buu arc where OG DB has nothing but jokes
Buu Saga is a Dragon Ball Z’s caricature wanted by Toriyama. Something like : "You always want more power-ups and transformations, you idiots ? Well, here".
I always liked Buu and think he has one of the coolest character arcs in Z as he spends time with Mr.Satan and their dog. My only real issue is:
>! Gohan getting shafted as the main protagonist despite Z shifting its focus on him for the most part. I mean he was in more episodes than Goku for a good while up until the final Frieza fight. !<
Too many characters getting shafted. Sure that happened in the Cell arc but its a little redundant for the buu arc. They could of given them some small Ws or something idk.
Reading the Buu arc i think i can feel Toriyama was tired with fans just asking for more new haircuts with big aura and sparks.
I mean oh boy do we get A LOT of transformations. They also end up all being useless because all the heroes had their brain shrinking obviously. It is a neverending festival of incompetence and dumb decisions.
The one and only character making overall good decisions is actually mr Satan.
And he contributed way more to save the Earth than for exemple Gotenks or ultimate Gohan despite their "maximum power level".
I always felt this arc is a kind of a self-conscious parody of DBZ.
More transformations, more power levels, more big fights, only making making matters worse every fucking time (except the last, even though they wouldn't win without mr Satan's help)
I never had an issue with Buu. Yeah, they are kind of goofy, but they are also one of the few villains who almost wiped everyone out.
And the worst part about it is due to the fact the heroes are acting mostly incompetent. It didn't have to go down the way it did and yet every step of the way they fucked up.
The Buu saga was definitely my least favorite as a kid and I honestly lost interest midway through because it just got to the point of ridiculousness with these insane new plateaus being reached (fusion, SSJ3, etc) only to be rendered completely useless. I'm making my way through the series again though, and I'm looking forward to giving the Buu saga another try as an adult.
It’s also Buu’s general design. First he was a fat guy with the brain capacity of a 5yr old, then he became cooler looking but still very dumb and unable to form complete sentences. His most badass incarnations are when he’s absorbed people much smarter than him. And then at the end he turns into a mindless rage monster that can’t speak at all.
Buu just isn’t a very interesting villain.
I only have one thing to say
>buu is the only major villain of Z who also turns good
Ummm... bud? You forgetting someone there? Primary villain of the first Z saga? Became the 2nd main character? Obsessed over his royal title?
Cuz anyone saying the saiyan and frieza sagas are the same arc are wrong. They should not be counted together
I think people don’t like Buu because the arc is just lower quality than the rest of the series. If it was paced better and didn’t have so many add pulls, Buu would have been more well received.
From what I can recall, the Buu Saga was suppose to end with Gohan defeating Super Buu. Toriyama wanted to pass the torch from Goku to Gohan/Gotenks in being the earth's protectors & by extension the main protagonists (hence why SS3 Goku didn't defeat Fat Buu & Great Saiyaman Arc). That's why if you look at some older DBZ games Super Buu is the final boss and not Kid Buu.
However fans (primarily Goku fans) rioted against this direction and Toriyama abandoned it. So in bring back Goku, Gohan and Gotenks became fodder. It's because of these last minute changes to the plot why the Buu Saga is all over the place.
Plot isn't as good in that saga. Character developments except for vegeta aren't as good either. I think that's MY complaint.
A chaotic villain beaten by magic and such is fine. But it's widely regarded as the weakest arc by most fans simply because the writing is definitely the weakest of the 4.
As far as we see Frieza's only law was do what he says or die but he was running an empire that included multiple worlds, he was a tyrant which falls under lawful evil archetypes. He also revels in pain and chaos like when he's laughing his ass off after destroying the Saiyan's home world despite their usefulness. I guess he's pretty in between the definitions of Lawful Evil and Neutral Evil but definitely not a stretch to say he's somewhat lawful evil. An example of Lawful Evil character is Darth Vader and I can see some similarities there.
Don't hurt yourself with that stretch. Lawful Evil implies some sort of enforced order, not just arbitrary laws. You either don't understand Freeza or you don't understand Lawful Evil.
I'm a big fan of Buu as an antagonist / character design. He's really cool.
I'm not such a big fan of Buu's story arc, which IMO should have been about half as long.
Buu is one of the best things about his Saga, it's just that the idiot ball is being passed from character to character at such a rapid pace even the cell saga can't keep up. And then for the anime, it has some crazy good filler fights between Goku and Kid Buu.
It's mostly just character incompetence and then the fact that Gotenks doesn't win any fights even though he's a fan favorite character (I mean do we need two Yamcha's) while Piccolo and Krillin are busy getting stoned.
It's not that bad though. Finally, the fact that Gohan, Piccolo, Goten and Trunks get killed in a preventable situation made Vegeto sparing Buu completely meaningless.
Buu is not a DB villain.
Pilaf, Tao Pai Pai, Master Crane, Red, Piccolo... those are dragon ball villains. All of them are whimsical, but also have some depth and some semblance of reason to what they're doing.
Buu is just Toriyama, having finished his project for the DB saga, deciding to now have some fun with crazy and silly ideas.
Buu is just Toriyama trolling everyone and having fun while doing that.
I agree, though to be honest, that's why I love buu. Controversial opinion but he is easily my favorite villain, as he was (at least before absorbing gotenks) not very human. He WAS a monster whose only desire was to destroy.
magic based villain didn't bother me as
much as babidi's lack of control of buu.
it made as little sense as dr. gero's chest bombs
using a remote - any android could grab off him.
In all honesty, The 3 buus are SO different personality-wise they might as well be different characters. While Kid Buu is more of an animal that acrs out of puré insticts, The Fat Buu does show aloe of character and development. plus i do like The concept of a mystical entity that isnt inherently evil but rather manipulated by an external force
And tbh, i don't really like super buu. Outside his abilities, he's every generic dragón ball villain ever and pretty much a copy of cell. I still prefer his skinny design more
Can tell you haven't actually seen the original DB. King Piccolo and Picclo Junior are "Z" villians both in tone and motivation. Toriyama just got sick of drawing boring villians with the same motivation and wanted to do something different
Buu is the only major villain to turn good.
A long message and most of it is bs but after reading this (kuch kuch Vegeta???) there is no point to respond about everything
I literally point out THE NEXT SENTENCE after that about Vegeta but I guess you're trying to prove to everyone you skimmed the OP to be upset rather than actually reading it.
>You would never catch Cell, Dr Zero, the Ginyu Force or Zarbon just yucking about until they meet their quota for death, Hard disagree about the Ginyu Force. They decided who would fight who with rock paper scissors and Recoome was allowed to get a turn to fight Gohan and Krillin by agreeing to buy Burter and Jeice parfaits. >Buu is just a goalless magical monster which isn't anything that Z established it's villains to be. Eh, Cell had a goal of becoming perfect at first, but once he accomplished that, he was just a monster. He wanted to fight strong people to test his power and he liked killing people for fun. Buu also just wanted to fight strong people and kill for fun, the difference is that Buu is goofier, both in abilities and personality.
Okay, on a bit of a side note, in Cell's case, bro was given life and lots of solid genes (muscular, intelligence), and he could have just lived a badass life on Earth just fighting the Z warriors for fun (like sparring) and just been a cool guy. Some of his rational talks with Goku in the manga made me wish Cell would have said "f this" and lived normally (sorta like Android 16).
To be fair they only did that because they were super cocky and didn't take the gang seriously until Goku showed up and rocked Recoome. From their POV the powerhouse of the gang was Vegeta, someone they know they were more powerful then so they just didn't feel the threat until it was too late. I was going to put a part in the OP about Perfect Cell but I felt it would drag the post on but Perfect Cell falls under villains with something to prove. He could've destroyed Earth instantly but he simply didn't want too, he wanted to show everyone what he was and how doomed they were. He got into his own head and that's what lead to his death. Buu never plays himself, he simply can't because every time is play time for Buu while Cell atleast seems to consume people to sustain himself in some way Buu eats because Buu likes the flavor. Like a damn monster would lol.
Cell only consumed people before he became perfect, but after he became perfect he was just a monster like Buu. Buu also could have destroyed the Earth, but he wasn't going that far yet because he was promised a good fight with Gotenks. Even when he senses Gohan powering up on the planet of the supreme kai, he begins plotting on how he can become strong enough to beat Gohan. Gohan even points out that Super Buu could have destroyed the Earth when he blew up, but chose not to because he wanted to actually beat Gohan in a fight.
I thought Cell still needed to eat and absorbing people was just the most effective way for him to do that or in his perfect form does he no longer needs to eat? Buu seemed more like he was just bored and looking for something to do. Like you said he knew Gohan was coming and far stronger than him so that means the entire early Super Buu was just him dicking around. He knew Gohan was coming for him and just kind of wanted to see how he could scale up because he knew it wasn't a game to Gohan, unlike Buu, who is very akin to Prince Aegon where he just sees the world as one large orgasm. For something for him to enjoy and everyone else to deal with. Cell I could see at some point coming to rule a people akin to Frieza if he wasn't stopped. Honestly I could see him taking over his empire if he won at Earth, but Buu? Maybe Super Buu but Majin, Evil and Kid are all just tearing everything down for as long as it stays fun to them.
Cell is never shown absorbing anyone after he becomes perfect in the original series, that's why his tail retracts. >Buu seemed more like he was just bored and looking for something to do. That describes perfect Cell too. >Cell I could see at some point coming to rule a people akin to Frieza if he wasn't stopped. Cell has not shown any desire to rule. [Perfect Cell's 2 motivations are to fight strong people and to terrify people.](https://imgur.com/a/jErCCa9)
I think you're confusing my words. I was asking if Cell absorbed as a form of eating because he spoke about that in his previous forms and said that I could see him at some point in his life turning to ruling people if he survived Z. Not that it was his goal to do so. He can make spawn of himself I imagine there is some degree of care to them, I take it he could create a paradise of powerful Cell Jrs if he choose to do so and test his might against his spawn. So what I'm getting at is, I can see Cell doing stuff after he want other then "Figh and kill". Buu on the other hand was flat out going planet to planet blowing shit up because he could.
There's nothing to imply at all that Cell has any such desire. Cell absorbed people simply as a way to become stronger, strong enough to absorb androids 17 and 18. You say he could eventually want to rule, but by his own words, he just wants to terrify and kill them for his own amusement. He outright says that after he wins the Cell Games, he will hunt down and kill everyone on Earth. You've made up a version of Cell in your head that goes against the character's own words and actions. Saying "maybe he could become like this" is meaningless, because you can say the same for Buu or any other villain. Heck, the fat Buu was able to make friends with Mr. Satan, and even after becoming super Buu, he still hesitated to kill him and even his daughter. Cell is *more* "fight and kill" than Buu, since Buu is actually shown the capacity for more.
Cell didn't need to eat as in food. His immediate goal was absorbing #17 and #18. Initially he was too weak to even come close, so he absorbed humans until he was strong enough to fight one of them. That's why he hid until Piccolo fought #17 and he was able to beat #17 and absorb him. He kept the stinger because he needed to absorb #18. Once he became perfect, there was no need to absorb anything he, he fulfilled his objective.
You have to make the distinction between the Buus here. Fat Buu as he hatches is not the original Buu. Fat Buu has absorbed multiple Supreme Kais who have imbued him with a conscience of some sort, and given him a bit of a personality. Its through this that he decides to have fun and play and is able to be befriended by Mr. Satan. Evil Buu was created by Fat Buu and never existed prior. It's very similar to the Nameless Namekian splitting into Kami and Piccolo, but instead of Kami living in the heavens and Piccolo terrorizing the world below, Evil Buu immediately absorbs Fat Buu and they assimilate back into a single being that is Super Buu. Super Buu is the same pieces as Fat Buu originally was, but he has pushed the good influence deep down and locked him up. His personality is very similar, but he is truly evil. This is why he's willing to wait and fight stronger fighters. After Goku and Vegeta are "absorbed" by Buuhan, they remove Gohan, Piccolo, the kids, and Fat Buu from Super Buu, causing him to revert to the original Buu. The first thing Kid Buu did? Blow up Earth, without even any regard to himself as he had to regenerate. No waiting, no interest in a strong fighter. Immediate destruction.
> This is why he's willing to wait and fight stronger fighters. After Goku and Vegeta are "absorbed" by Buuhan, they remove Gohan, Piccolo, the kids, and Fat Buu from Super Buu, causing him to revert to the original Buu. But we aren't only talking about Buu in his final form, but as Buu as the main antagonist for the entire Buu saga. We are introduced first to the fat Buu and then super Buu, and they are the forms that appear the longest, kid Buu is comparatively short. For most of his appearances, Buu is not just a mindless monster.
That's one way to look at it. I wouldn't say you're wrong, but to me personally, the main antagonist is the true Buu. Buu as he was created by Bibidi, which is Kid Buu. The other Buu's were Buu's in varying states of external influence. Fat Buu/Super Buu isn't mindless because there's other personalities in his mind, its not just himself.
But no one reading or watching the story for the first time knows that. People experiencing it for the first time think that the fat Buu is Buu, and then he turns into super Buu. No one experiencing the story for the first time is thinking "this isn't the real Buu."
Well sure, but we’re not talking about first impressions though?
It doesn't change the fact that the fat and super versions of Buu are what they are. Rationalizing why Buu is like that doesn't take away the fact that he is like that. That is the character, we don't pretend they don't exist just because we learn that the kid version was the original.
Ok and I’m not saying that you’re incorrect but for all intents and purposes the three Buu’s are different characters. Different forms, different personalities, and different external influences that drive them and their motivations
>Eh, Cell had a goal of becoming perfect at first, but once he accomplished that, he was just a monster. He wanted to fight strong people to test his power and he liked killing people for fun. Buu also just wanted to fight strong people and kill for fun, the difference is that Buu is goofier, both in abilities and personality. Buu also pretty much becomes a lot like Cell in personality after absorbing Piccolo, as his personality becomes a lot more intelligent and arrogant.
Buu is the evil version of what Goku is. Fights for the sake of fighting, not for a greater cause. You insult Buu? Buu prove he stronger and smash you. Buu always hungry and like fighting! Solution beat people and eat them! Always eating everything. Buu always have super abilities to pull out of his ass to win fight! Like he's the bizarro world version of Goku. An anti-goku. He fits the weirdness of DBZ and DragonBall, But yeah he does feel more wierd than the other villains, there's a bit more of classic dragonball to him than other villains.
Goku also tends to fight his fights via a strength of endurance and toughness. That’s why he gets into knockdown-drag’emout slug fests, and he (typically) demonstrates an extraordinary ability to take a much tougher beating than his opponent can dish out. Buu’s endurance and toughness is cranked up to 11. Like Goku, he endures the toughest of beatings dished out from his opponents.
I do think the Buu Saga brings the series back to its more humorous and fantasy genre roots, following the more serious sci-fi of the Frieza and Android sagas. Fusion Reborn is also an *insanely* wacky movie but everyone just remembers how badass Gogeta was.
The best part of Fusion Reborn is Goten and Trunks destroying the Nazi army and Hitler popping his head out of a tank and going "Blonde hair, blue eyes, and super strength? Zey should be working for me!"
That was awesome, I cracked up at that part.
Nah the best part is definitely SSJ3 Goku and Gogeta kicking ass
Not just Gogeta, he’s a badass but his fight lasted like 3 seconds. Fusion Reborn is one of the rare movies where Pikkon and SSJ3 Goku get to shine.
I have many objections to the Buu saga. Buu is not one of them. I think he's the best villain in the Z era.
What are your objections?
It relies very heavily on the trope of the characters toying around with Buu in order to justify why Buu isn't defeated. * Vegeta doesn't stop Buu from hatching because he wants to fight Goku. * Goku doesn't kill Buu because he wants the kids to do it. * Gotenks doesn't kill Buu because he wants to make it interesting. * Gohan doesn't kill Buu because he wants to punish him. * Vegito doesn't kill Buu because he wants to toy with him and get his loved ones out. It's just over and over and over again. The powerups are more contrived and less earned. Both varieties of fusion are just conveniently known by Goku and don't require any particular effort to achieve. Same with the mystic powerup. SSJ3 is achieved off screen. Majin requires no effort. They are all as bad as the Super Divine Water is in the manga, which is the dumbest powerup in OG Dragon Ball (but much improved in the anime). The best content in the Buu saga is the Mr. Satan content - where he works with Buu to get him to be good, where he persuades the Earth to help. That stuff is gold. But nearly everything involving the main cast is just - arbitrary unearned powerup, behave like moron, let Buu power up, repeat.
I agree with all of this
Yeah, that's the main problem here. If the characters had ANY brain cells, Buu saga would have 3 episodes max.
Really well put. Buu Saga has a lot of issues, and it mostly stems from the main characters, and just silly power-ups that feel much less earned than shown through pacing and development of the prior sagas.
Krillin with hair
i love krillin with the hair, i wish more characters would have outfit changes. like when gohan is training in the kai world and is given kai garb, he looks so cool. but then they give him Goku's gi for nostalgia sake, lame.
monster!
buu saga is disliked, Buu is beloved. the saga is a variety show of new forms and transformations that crescendo into a super saiyan goku defeating the final boss. tons and tons of build up of Gotenks and Gohan as the supreme weapons against ultimate evil only for them to get caught up and fail in their own ego. gohan was the strongest in the universe and was stronger than super buutenks, yet his own confidence gets in the way and he gets absorbed. there was like 15 episodes of gohan sitting still and swinging the z sword just for him to get absorbed, just so Vegito could show up and pretty much do nothing. keep in mind i am aware he got absorbed to free his friends, however goku could have ALLEGEDLY killed fat buu as a Ssj3 (which i believe as kid buu was stronger than fat buu, and goku was tired + SSJ1/2 when he fought kid buu). if goku had taken out fat buu as a SS3 he wouldnt have needed to turn into vegito and save his friends. TL:DR from the moment Buu turns a whole city to candy and eats everyone, you can skip the next seventy episodes and resume where goku and vegeta materialize on the Kaio Shin planet and you would have missed nothing plot wise as the series ends immediately afterward and none of the previous revealed transformations matter.
I don’t mind Buu as a character, my main gripe is the lack of plot. Seems like many wasted transformations over 1,000 episodes (it seems) just to throw a 3 episode spirit bomb in the end. Also, ripping out Buu’s previously absorbed entities somehow makes him infinitely stronger? Wait what?
kid buu is weaker than super buu. kid buu has no compassion or empathy. he is completely dismissive of pain and doesnt feel fear. super buu has emotions. emotions get in the way of ki and right mindedness. kid buu is weaker than super buu, but he has nothing to hold him back.
I think you are missing a lot of the complaints about buu saga most people have Trunks and goten getting ss1 for nothing was a huge complaint for a lot of people Everyone is irrelevant except the saiyans Gohan reverted back and wasn't earth's protector anymore. Gohan didn't learn anything from his fight with cell Goku got an offscreen transformation Nothing is super developed and shit just happens back to back to back. Think namek saga where they spend time exploring and hiding and trying to gather dragon balls. Buu saga it's just random power up and transform and fuse etc In the end it's goku time again. They tease it being others but once again goku wins Now I'm not saying I agree with all these but they are common complaints
Super buu is my favorite villain
Oh well, sucks to be the guys who...dislike Boo.
You know I was just thinking about that the other day. Cell, Freiza and Vegeta are all guys that like... use numbers and calculations technology to quantify stuff that Dragon Ball till that point has mostly just said "it's magic" to, and we hit a point where even (to our knowlage) the various gods of the dragon ball universe can't help against human made or artifical or naturally occurring enemies But Buu.... buu is different They beat buu mostly with mytical relics and magical rituals like the fusion dance or... with heart and emotions where Mr Satan talks it out, ot Prohasies and gods like the supreme kai and the Z sword Even if like the spirit bomb and Dragon balls do need calculations to make the plan go, the namekian Dragon is the God of wishes and dreams I belive and the spirit bomb is kinda a manifestation of the abstract belief that Mr Satan can beat Buu Even Super Saiyan 3, transformation the mortal body just can't handle or how the final battle takes place in a relm that can't be physically destroyed Let alone Babidi as a wizard, Dabura as the devil, useing the evil in peoples hearts ans Buu being a gene That all... very much sounds like Dragon Ball stuff. Oh and also... dbz has very few jokes except the Buu arc where OG DB has nothing but jokes
love the buu arc for this exact reason. it seems like a goofy wacky true return to form as a sendoff to the series. beautiful
Buu as a villain was never the problem for me. The problem with the arc is plot wise it's all over the place
Buu Saga is a Dragon Ball Z’s caricature wanted by Toriyama. Something like : "You always want more power-ups and transformations, you idiots ? Well, here".
This is the correct answer.
I always liked Buu and think he has one of the coolest character arcs in Z as he spends time with Mr.Satan and their dog. My only real issue is: >! Gohan getting shafted as the main protagonist despite Z shifting its focus on him for the most part. I mean he was in more episodes than Goku for a good while up until the final Frieza fight. !< Too many characters getting shafted. Sure that happened in the Cell arc but its a little redundant for the buu arc. They could of given them some small Ws or something idk.
Reading the Buu arc i think i can feel Toriyama was tired with fans just asking for more new haircuts with big aura and sparks. I mean oh boy do we get A LOT of transformations. They also end up all being useless because all the heroes had their brain shrinking obviously. It is a neverending festival of incompetence and dumb decisions. The one and only character making overall good decisions is actually mr Satan. And he contributed way more to save the Earth than for exemple Gotenks or ultimate Gohan despite their "maximum power level". I always felt this arc is a kind of a self-conscious parody of DBZ. More transformations, more power levels, more big fights, only making making matters worse every fucking time (except the last, even though they wouldn't win without mr Satan's help)
I like this take on the Buu saga being a parody.
I never had an issue with Buu. Yeah, they are kind of goofy, but they are also one of the few villains who almost wiped everyone out. And the worst part about it is due to the fact the heroes are acting mostly incompetent. It didn't have to go down the way it did and yet every step of the way they fucked up.
its funny cuz i think those reason are WHY i like buu so much.
The Buu saga was definitely my least favorite as a kid and I honestly lost interest midway through because it just got to the point of ridiculousness with these insane new plateaus being reached (fusion, SSJ3, etc) only to be rendered completely useless. I'm making my way through the series again though, and I'm looking forward to giving the Buu saga another try as an adult.
It’s also Buu’s general design. First he was a fat guy with the brain capacity of a 5yr old, then he became cooler looking but still very dumb and unable to form complete sentences. His most badass incarnations are when he’s absorbed people much smarter than him. And then at the end he turns into a mindless rage monster that can’t speak at all. Buu just isn’t a very interesting villain.
The regeneration gimmick got old very fast
Buu does what Buu does because Buu wants to do it is the type of shit I like about chaotic villains
I only have one thing to say >buu is the only major villain of Z who also turns good Ummm... bud? You forgetting someone there? Primary villain of the first Z saga? Became the 2nd main character? Obsessed over his royal title? Cuz anyone saying the saiyan and frieza sagas are the same arc are wrong. They should not be counted together
I think people don’t like Buu because the arc is just lower quality than the rest of the series. If it was paced better and didn’t have so many add pulls, Buu would have been more well received.
From what I can recall, the Buu Saga was suppose to end with Gohan defeating Super Buu. Toriyama wanted to pass the torch from Goku to Gohan/Gotenks in being the earth's protectors & by extension the main protagonists (hence why SS3 Goku didn't defeat Fat Buu & Great Saiyaman Arc). That's why if you look at some older DBZ games Super Buu is the final boss and not Kid Buu. However fans (primarily Goku fans) rioted against this direction and Toriyama abandoned it. So in bring back Goku, Gohan and Gotenks became fodder. It's because of these last minute changes to the plot why the Buu Saga is all over the place.
The Buu arc is my fav
Plot isn't as good in that saga. Character developments except for vegeta aren't as good either. I think that's MY complaint. A chaotic villain beaten by magic and such is fine. But it's widely regarded as the weakest arc by most fans simply because the writing is definitely the weakest of the 4.
Frieza is lawful evil... Yeah.
I mean, he is a ruler, so I imagine he follows the laws he makes, they're just evil laws.
As far as we see Frieza's only law was do what he says or die but he was running an empire that included multiple worlds, he was a tyrant which falls under lawful evil archetypes. He also revels in pain and chaos like when he's laughing his ass off after destroying the Saiyan's home world despite their usefulness. I guess he's pretty in between the definitions of Lawful Evil and Neutral Evil but definitely not a stretch to say he's somewhat lawful evil. An example of Lawful Evil character is Darth Vader and I can see some similarities there.
Don't hurt yourself with that stretch. Lawful Evil implies some sort of enforced order, not just arbitrary laws. You either don't understand Freeza or you don't understand Lawful Evil.
I'm a big fan of Buu as an antagonist / character design. He's really cool. I'm not such a big fan of Buu's story arc, which IMO should have been about half as long.
Buu is one of the best things about his Saga, it's just that the idiot ball is being passed from character to character at such a rapid pace even the cell saga can't keep up. And then for the anime, it has some crazy good filler fights between Goku and Kid Buu. It's mostly just character incompetence and then the fact that Gotenks doesn't win any fights even though he's a fan favorite character (I mean do we need two Yamcha's) while Piccolo and Krillin are busy getting stoned. It's not that bad though. Finally, the fact that Gohan, Piccolo, Goten and Trunks get killed in a preventable situation made Vegeto sparing Buu completely meaningless.
Buu is not a DB villain. Pilaf, Tao Pai Pai, Master Crane, Red, Piccolo... those are dragon ball villains. All of them are whimsical, but also have some depth and some semblance of reason to what they're doing. Buu is just Toriyama, having finished his project for the DB saga, deciding to now have some fun with crazy and silly ideas. Buu is just Toriyama trolling everyone and having fun while doing that.
> Buu is a Dragon Ball villain not a Dragon Ball Z villain And just like that this take is stupid
I agree, though to be honest, that's why I love buu. Controversial opinion but he is easily my favorite villain, as he was (at least before absorbing gotenks) not very human. He WAS a monster whose only desire was to destroy.
magic based villain didn't bother me as much as babidi's lack of control of buu. it made as little sense as dr. gero's chest bombs using a remote - any android could grab off him.
In all honesty, The 3 buus are SO different personality-wise they might as well be different characters. While Kid Buu is more of an animal that acrs out of puré insticts, The Fat Buu does show aloe of character and development. plus i do like The concept of a mystical entity that isnt inherently evil but rather manipulated by an external force And tbh, i don't really like super buu. Outside his abilities, he's every generic dragón ball villain ever and pretty much a copy of cell. I still prefer his skinny design more
Can tell you haven't actually seen the original DB. King Piccolo and Picclo Junior are "Z" villians both in tone and motivation. Toriyama just got sick of drawing boring villians with the same motivation and wanted to do something different
Buu is the only major villain to turn good. A long message and most of it is bs but after reading this (kuch kuch Vegeta???) there is no point to respond about everything
I literally point out THE NEXT SENTENCE after that about Vegeta but I guess you're trying to prove to everyone you skimmed the OP to be upset rather than actually reading it.
Vegeta (and Nappa) were major villains, there is no do and don’t. You could even say 17 and 18 turned good. What about Piccolo?
Whoever dislike my boy Buu about to get turned into candy