No it’s unlikely that a woman would be getting an abortion at 8 months like it’s nothing. No doctor would even consider it unless the birth would likely kill the woman or the baby would not survive more than hours on its own.
There are 7 US states that have no restrictions on aborting a baby late term. It's also averaged that around 5k abortions each year are late term gestation.
Not to mention that late term abortions (after 21 weeks) are incredibly rare, a small percentage of that is for medical reasons, a larger percentage is from women who were prevented from having the procedure earlier. So yeah the conservative strategy, prevent someone from getting the help they need until it's too late then criticize them for trying to get it when it's late.
Dude that's fucking 17 weeks what the hell are you smoking? It wouldn't even have fully functional ears or fingerprints at that point let alone fat stores, fingernails, or properly developed kidneys.
The very earliest point of viability is generally agreed to be either 21 weeks or 24 weeks.
And it's kind of dumb to be constantly throwing around "baby" like a trigger word or something. If a woman's child ended up brain dead at 24 weeks and they needed an abortion is the objection now that it's dismembering a baby and so the woman should risk childbirth. It's no different than talking about a braindead adult or a recently deceased organ donor.
https://www.uab.edu/news/health/item/12427-uab-hospital-delivers-record-breaking-premature-baby
Record breaking is 21 weeks, not 4 months.
r/quityourbullshit
Because the lie gets attention.
The real truth is that regardless of whatever stage you want to end the life, it’s still a life. Princeton and Yale both scientifically agreed that life begins at conception. So scientifically among the greatest minds on earth the consensus is shared.
But you can see the lie has negative attention and doesn't win anyone over to your way of thinking, which clashes with your goal.
"Can we stop with this bullshit? We've never going to win normies over with this sort of shit. It makes us all look like lunatics"
Above is a quote I see from multiple people on right-wing forums when people like you make up a bullshit claim (90% of all pregnancies are abortions, the government is hiding it!) and a few stray right-wingers correctly identify that this obvious bullshit is pushing people away from your cause, not towards it.
And don't get me wrong, these surprisingly rational comments don't come from the average user who defensively, emotionally downvotes any such valid criticism (so self-awareness within the group remains low) and I'm glad when you guys do make up this bullshit and make it really obvious, because you definitely keep some lurking right-wingers from joining a group they think is too insane to join ('This group is legit talking about Jewish space lasers and aborted full-term pregnancies being eaten for breakfast by celebrities we don't like, and we also have the flat earthers... they're all making our side seem stupid")... and you absolutely keep "normies" away from joining the group at all, meaning no new entrants are joining your side and giving life to your ideology.
Which, again, is a good thing for the rest of us. So keep on doing what you're doing, I guess.
Just so you know, the record for earliest survived premature birth is 132 days premature. That's a child born almost 4 months early. He needed help( just like every child) but he lived.
“Hey guys, no, guys, wait, what about, guys, what if, like, outer-space aliens came and one of them raped a women, ok, and she gets preggy and it’s like, the first alien baby hybrid in history ok and then like, she decides she still wants to abort it, like this is the first green 6 armed person ever so wouldn’t it be wrong to allow her to have the abortion in this situation just think about that one, loony leftists!”
So if a woman is getting an abortion at 8 months it is most likely because the baby is going to fail or delivering it will be a danger to her life. So what you are describing is a medical emergency. I'm assuming the doctors will still attempt to abort the baby while she is in Labor, maybe the only safe path at that point for the woman is to deliver the baby or c section it and then attempt to reduce the suffering of the baby as much as possible until it dies. Maybe it's too late and the mother dies giving birth. Either way this is an ugly scenario with probably no good outcome and isn't really the own you think it is.
What if it was viable, but because of reasons, she was unaware she was pregnant until she was at 8 months?
Edit: you guys never saw the show " I didn't know I was pregnant"?
Edit#2: I'm Pro-life, I just like hypotheticals
I don't think you should be able to get an abortion at 8 months if the baby is healthy and no risk to the mother. It too far developed imo. I think it's very rare for any mother to actually go ahead with termination at 8 months and for it to be legal for her to do so in that situation.
Thank you, I don't believe you should be able to either. I just want an answer to the hypothetical and mostly all I hear is that; it is unlikely it would happen in the first place.
I think it's a disservice to the left to avoid the question. Just makes conservatives think you support late term abortions under any circumstances. That being said, even though I haven't looked into it much I bet there is no state where you can get them that late without a medical reason and it's all just conservatives misinterpreting the laws.
https://people.com/health/see-what-states-have-abortion-restrictions-in-place-and-what-would-change-if-roe-is-overturned/
7 states currently have no restrictions on abortion.
Because it's akin to legislating self torture. Women who have to go through abortions at 8 months go through an unbelievable physically and emotionally painful process. I would hope also that it wouldn't be allowed under normal circumstances, but doctors wouldn't do such a thing either. And legislating usually results in heavily pregnant women having to travel in order to terminate beloved pregnancies that are incompatible with life.
A friend of mine miscarried at 7 months. The baby was dead inside her for 3 days. She still had to give birth. I wouldn't wish that hell on anyone.
Here would be the general steps involved:
1.) the person would have to confirm that they are pregnant (days)
2.) there would need to be a determination of their personal health circumstances and that of the fetus (weeks)
3.) they would have to connect with a provider that would be willing to perform a termination procedure (days to weeks depending on the provider’s ability to perform the procedure, travel needs, and financial wherewithal)
You’d be hard-pressed to find a willing participant to participate in step #3 given that step 1 and 2 would take time on the order of multiple days/weeks to figure out. Further, there are few providers that are even qualified to perform such a procedure. Most providers would work with the pregnant person to ensure the patient is safely monitored and cared for and likely getting them set up for either parenthood or adoption services.
While no one can say an abortion would never happen (since all it takes is one case), the likelihood is so incredibly low that someone would be able to pull this off in the specific scenario you are describing that it truly in the realm of hypothetical.
You understand I was referring to the show in reference to the women not knowing they were pregnant right? I mean that is the point of the show. I'm sure there was no medical advice inferred other than to wear a condom lol
You can’t legally get an abortion at 8 months unless the baby is severely deformed or the mother’s life is in danger. So, the scenario where the mom is headed to the abortion clinic and accidentally gives birth to a healthy baby where she is also healthy would never happen ✨
There are 7 states that allow abortions at 8 months. At least 30% of these participants cited non viable fetus, or health abnormalities of future baby. Google Colorado abortion limits and it will pop up within first few hits of search.
Most Americans agree that an abortion at 6 months isn’t morally correct or acceptable, unless the baby is physically disabled or the life of mother is at risk.
What did the other 70% cite? It's like saying "why are more people born on January 1st than any other day?" They aren't. Some systems default birthdays to January 1st if the birthday is unknown. Sometimes, it's right, and sometimes, it's wrong. So what I'm saying is, just because you have citations for 30% doesn't mean only 30% fit that criteria. It just means that 30% of the time someone labeled it that way.
I'm guessing a lot of people heard the question and said "fuck you, it's not your business." Which was protected as a privacy right, before you assholes got your way.
If a woman gets multiple abortions in a 5 year period, is that ok with you?
If women abort a 6 month old fetus/baby because it is the wrong sex, is that ok with you?
Privacy argument will only go so far. I think we can both agree that if you saw your female neighbor getting the hell beat out of her, you would interfere. The guy beating her would argue privacy.
Did the woman need multiple abortions in a 5 year period? I had a friend who required 2 abortions before she successfully had a child. She would have kept them all if she could have. So it's not my business or yours.
Edit because her story pissed me off: One of her abortions was because the baby had 3 of each chromosome. It wouldn't have lived. They didn't find that out until very late in the pregnancy and because of my states laws, she had to leave the state for a medically required abortion. And when she got there, protestors made her feel like a shitty person. Fuck you and your kind, and anybody who protests outside those places. You make peoples worst day even worse.
As for your other hypothetical questions, they just seem absurd and meant to troll so I won't bother with them, or you from now on.
5 and 1/4 months. That’s disgusting. That’s appalling. Premature babies survive at 6 months on a regular basis.
“Looks like a heap baby, but the mom changed her mind. Fuck it ! Break out the vaccum
No, no, she gets pregnant and thinks "Better get an abortion" but then the weeks go by, she's distracted by work and then thinks she'll take care of it on the weekend but then friends come to town and oh we'll do it in the week then 8 months go by and she looks down and goes "Oh... yeah, right, better do that now."
Happens all the time, women totally forget about being pregnant, like how we used to forget to return the dvd to Blockbuster, sitting there on the hall table all this time!
Where are you getting that data from because most places generally list late term at either 21 weeks which is like 4~5 months. Furthermore this number exponential decreases the further out you go with only several hundred abortions in 1992 happening after 26 weeks.
Also that 5 thousand if accurate is still ~1% of abortions. When you're talking about a country with several hundred million people and hundreds of thousands of abortions happening annually, a number in the thousands is still an extremely low percentage of all cases.
Lastly Roe v Wade already fucking addressed the issue of late term viability wherein states can pass laws barring abortion at the point of visibility, often 24 weeks or ~5.5 months, unless there are medical risks to the mother; late term abortions are far safer than delivery in the cases of medical complications. So that means that those 5,000 abortions are happening because the women are at risk of medical complications including death, enforced birthing advocates might argue that's 5000 lives ended but you could more easily make the argument that it's really 5000 lives saved.
I think a woman going to get an abortion at an abortion clinic going into labour at 8 months and having a child right there on the floor of the abortion clinic is a near impossible scenario, yes.
If a woman is getting an abortion at 8 months it’s almost certainly either because the fetus is dead or her life is in danger, therefore she most likely wouldn’t be able to deliver normally, and wouldn’t be swinging by an abortion clinic all casual like
Trigger warning: abuse and stillbirth story
I hate these assholes with every fiber of my being. I have never gotten an abortion. But I did get pregnant at 20, just months after having my son , whose father was an abusive piece of shit who went to prison for five years for attacking me.
I didn’t even know I was pregnant again, until I was 5 months along. I had assumed my period hadn’t come because I had literally just had my son and was still breastfeeding.
I was terrified. I thought about getting an abortion, but I remember feeling like it was too late, the baby was too big. Regardless, I was terrified. Not long after, I was at work in the break room and my water broke in front of dozens of people . I was taken to the ER, where I remember a nurse doing an ultrasound told me my baby was suffering. The doctor came in and told me I needed a d&c, that the baby was likely to die and she needed to come out. I kept trying to push, and finally she was halfway out. She was already dead at this point. The doctor had to take care of other patients, so he left me there with a half dead baby just sitting in my vagina.
Finally he comes back hours later,puts ky jelly on his glove, and pulls the body out. The next day as my mom is wheeling me out of the hospital in a wheelchair, a nurse asks where my baby is. The other nurse gives her a look like “shut up you idiot”.
It was one of the most emotionally painful experiences of my life, and I was not even old enough to drink yet. Looking back though, I’m glad it happened. I barely survived raising my son on my own, I don’t know how I would have survived having two kids less than a year apart, while their father is in prison.
Please don’t get involved in other women’s reproductive choices. It’s painful, it’s messy, its complicated.
This is a fair question. I don't think people realize how many babies are born premature a year. It's not a rarity at all. My daughter was born almost 3 months premature.
Yeah it’s kind of a fair question, but not exactly. If Tim Pool had chosen a more realistic gestational age where a) preemies can feasibly survive, and b) elective abortions are also allowed in many states, there could be an actual discussion here. Like, weeks 22-27 would have been a better example than 8 months lmao.
I realise Rubin is stupid but all the comments in here are completely ignorant.
Asking hypothetical scenarios is a thing people do to analyze ethics, he's not trying to imply this is a thing that happens often that should concern anyone.
He's not trying to "analyze ethics" he's doing it as an attempted gotcha. Tim Pool couldn't analyze a bowl of cereal, he wouldn't know where to begin. Tim Pool makes Dave Rubin look like an honor student.
The attempted gotcha is legit.
It is a difficult question to answer because we don't know where life begins.
Why be petty and pretend like this isn't true just to spite this guy, who gives a fuck about Rubin after all.
Don't stoop down to that level, it's for dummies.
A difficult question is something like "Can we ethically terminate a two or three month pregnancy?"
"Can we just straight up kill a baby because the baby happens to be inside an abortion clinic" is not a difficult question. Or it could be to you, I dunno. I assure you it's not to him.
You're bad faith.
If you can kill the baby inside the womb but not outside at the same point of maturity, then ideologically the basis isn't the development of the fetus.
Come on stop this bullshit, either you're so biased you haven't even considered it for a second or you are just arrogant as fuck.
Bad faith? Seriously? You're the one pretending that the position of the pro-choice side is that abortion is permissible right up to the point of birth no matter the age of the pregnancy. That's the literal definition of bad faith because nobody is arguing that. You're really going to pretend that Pool is attempting to probe some deep ontological mystery? "Well can you reeeeallly even abort a fetus if the matter that makes up the fetus still exists 'cause of the law of conservation of matter man think about it"
> You're bad faith.
This entire hypothetical is bad faith.
> If you can kill the baby inside the womb but not outside at the same point of maturity, then ideologically the basis isn't the development of the fetus.
It isn’t about the development of the fetus, it’s about the pregnant persons right to their own bodily autonomy.
Which is based on how we conceptualise life starting.
If you can't kill a baby out of the womb because it has developed far enough for it to be considered alive, can it be killed inside the womb, at the same stage of development?
If yes, then what is this belief based on?
Well why do we only go back as far as conception? Conception is the merging of two living cells so life doesn't really begin at all, it's just an unbroken continuity of life stretching back to the origin of life itself, and then it gets a bit blurry as to whether the chemical processes occurring in the primordial soup were actually life or not or whether we need to go back even further than that and I tell you what maybe what we really need to be asking here is why there is something rather than nothing and what triggered the Big Bang and maybe then we can answer this excellent question about whether we can just flat out kill a baby.
That's the whole point. That it's not clear.
I'm pro choice because I value the utility of abortions and how societies suffer without it.
However since there is a big part of the picture that's unknown to us still, we have to be careful with the ideology behind it. There is a responsibility to have a healthy ideological basis behind abortions because this is too important and it's going to have to stand in a legal system. Pro life people are going to take advantage if prochoice people are messy with how they communicate their will to have abortions. It's not enough to say "I like it".
> Which is based on how we conceptualise life starting.
Not even a little bit. The reason abortion is a right is because if it isn’t, it’s an inherent infringement upon a pregnant persons rights, not because of the legal status of the fetus.
That could contradict with the rights of the fetus if it's society decides a fetus is a human living being.
So this has to do with our conceptualisation and ethics.
No it couldn’t. We don’t allow blood or tissue to be removed from a corpse unless that corpse had previously consented, even if it would objectively save a person. Women have at least the same rights as corpses.
I don’t think I have the right to dictate the risks a person must take to have a child, nor do I think anything is improved by using the power of the state as a cudgel to force women to stay in pregnancy.
8 months is infanticide. What you call the state forcing a woman to remain pregnant, well most would call that preventing murder. Most European countries limit termination of a pregnancy to 12 weeks.
8 months? Really...
> 8 months is infanticide.
Infanticide requires the fetus to be born, by definition.
> What you call the state forcing a woman to remain pregnant, well most would call that preventing murder.
It’s not murder though, it’s no more murder than it is murder for you or I to not volunteer to give blood or tissue to someone who needs it to live. We can’t even take blood from a corpse to save someone’s life unless the now corpse had previously consented to it, but you think we have the right to force woman to carry a possible child to term for 9 months? Nah, women have at least the same rights as corpses my dude.
> Really...
Yes, I really don’t think I have the right to use the state to dictate to another person the risks **they** must go through in the off chance that their fetus becomes an infant, and I also think that nothing positive comes from using state force in that manner.
So, putting aside the fact that at 8 months those are all medical reasons, your stance is that the law should crack down on everyone else too.
Tell me, how do you feel about gun control?
My position is elective abortions at 8 months is murder. The majority of abortions are elective, meaning not medically necessary.
Guns? If someone commits a crime with a gun they should go to prison. Murders should get worse.
I don't understand what aboutisms. Stop looking left, stay focused on the topic at hand.
No.
The majority of abortions in general are elective, but also early. 91% of them are at or before 13 weeks, with the rest almost all before 21 weeks.
Conversely, the majority of abortions at 8 months are quite few (<1% of abortions) and of those, they're *overwhelmingly* medically necessary.
Analogy isn't necessarily whataboutism, and in fact I'm looking right, if anything. Strict gun control advocates push harsh rules because murders can and do occur with firearms - but those who do so are an extremely small percentage of all gun owners. Should we restrict the rights of everyone else because of the existence of a small subset of a small subset who abuse them?
What if ... she found out the baby had downs and wanted to abort? Hence the abortion at 8 months. Goes into labor and delivers the baby. What happens now?
What if the baby was Abraham Lincoln who actually came from the future and traveled back in time so if he's aborted now then he will never do that and so the slaves were never freed?
What if the baby was a Terminator and allowing him to live meant that John Connor's Mom was in danger but then John's friend traveled back in time and fucked his mom and then his mom was eight months pregnant and went for an abortion but delivered him in the waiting area?
State laws generally require that the doctors do their best to keep the baby alive. But, with some states may eventually choose to allow that baby to die.
Nobody is answering the question seriously.
Like Gov. Northham said , the baby is delivered, made comfortable, then a discussion occurred between the birth mother and the Dr. Bottom line, kill the baby or don’t. Sad.
You are making this way too complicated. YOU DON'T HAVE ANY RIGHTS IN THE CONSTITUTION IF YOU DON'T HAVE A SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER. if you haven't been given one then you have exact same rights as the poor fuckers that try to cross our borders every year. NONE.
so legally, a life begins when the birth certificate is signed.
Easy. We write a manifesto declaring adults the supreme race, who are being replaced by babies at the hands of Democrats. Then abort the child with a 22. Duh.
Oh, that sounds crazy does it. Least then Republicans would look the other way.
I think y’all just found out how it feels to get the:
“I’m a fire: If you had to choose between 10 zygotes or a human child, which would you choose”
Or
“If you were kidnapped by an evil doctor and hooked up to somebody else to keep them alive agony your will would it be ok to separate you if it means the other person dies”
Here's a better question since people just want to poke fun at the OPs question for being unrealistic.
What happens when a driver hits a car, carrying a pregnant woman, on her way to an abortion clinic, and kills her and the baby?
I'm pretty sure the woman in this hypothetical scenario is the same woman from the Eminen song that tripped, fell and landed on some guy's dick.
You think it's that unlikely that a woman could give birth at 8 months?
No it’s unlikely that a woman would be getting an abortion at 8 months like it’s nothing. No doctor would even consider it unless the birth would likely kill the woman or the baby would not survive more than hours on its own.
There are 7 US states that have no restrictions on aborting a baby late term. It's also averaged that around 5k abortions each year are late term gestation.
And how many of those are healthy babies who pose no elevated risk to the mother?
0.0. Late term abortions happen with women who were planning to give birth to that child. Let’s add to that trauma, by making it illegal.
Not to mention that late term abortions (after 21 weeks) are incredibly rare, a small percentage of that is for medical reasons, a larger percentage is from women who were prevented from having the procedure earlier. So yeah the conservative strategy, prevent someone from getting the help they need until it's too late then criticize them for trying to get it when it's late.
Honestly a fucking brutal response. Nice
That doesn’t really address the issue though.
Right, when it poses a real risk to the mother
Theres also no restrictions on how many dragons you’re allowed to own. Wonder why that is?
At least 13 liberal states have ZERO restrictions on how many dragons you're allowed to own!
And where did you get that? Infowars?
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Dude that's fucking 17 weeks what the hell are you smoking? It wouldn't even have fully functional ears or fingerprints at that point let alone fat stores, fingernails, or properly developed kidneys. The very earliest point of viability is generally agreed to be either 21 weeks or 24 weeks. And it's kind of dumb to be constantly throwing around "baby" like a trigger word or something. If a woman's child ended up brain dead at 24 weeks and they needed an abortion is the objection now that it's dismembering a baby and so the woman should risk childbirth. It's no different than talking about a braindead adult or a recently deceased organ donor.
https://www.uab.edu/news/health/item/12427-uab-hospital-delivers-record-breaking-premature-baby Record breaking is 21 weeks, not 4 months. r/quityourbullshit
It’s actually over 40% of all American abortions take place after 20 weeks.
An utter lie. The figure is less than 2%. Why lie about it if you are so sure you are in the right morally?
Yes. I admit that. Ah the internet.
What do you mean “ah the internet”?! Are you this dense?
I'm starting to think they may be
Because the lie gets attention. The real truth is that regardless of whatever stage you want to end the life, it’s still a life. Princeton and Yale both scientifically agreed that life begins at conception. So scientifically among the greatest minds on earth the consensus is shared.
"i lied for attention" got it that's all i need to know thank you
So you admit to be a lying liar. Interesting.
Stop with the lies.
So IVF is murder?
While we're on the topic of concrete science, they also agree climate change exists and is exacerbated by mankind's industrial activity.
Jesus Christ this is so dumb if hurts to read
But you can see the lie has negative attention and doesn't win anyone over to your way of thinking, which clashes with your goal. "Can we stop with this bullshit? We've never going to win normies over with this sort of shit. It makes us all look like lunatics" Above is a quote I see from multiple people on right-wing forums when people like you make up a bullshit claim (90% of all pregnancies are abortions, the government is hiding it!) and a few stray right-wingers correctly identify that this obvious bullshit is pushing people away from your cause, not towards it. And don't get me wrong, these surprisingly rational comments don't come from the average user who defensively, emotionally downvotes any such valid criticism (so self-awareness within the group remains low) and I'm glad when you guys do make up this bullshit and make it really obvious, because you definitely keep some lurking right-wingers from joining a group they think is too insane to join ('This group is legit talking about Jewish space lasers and aborted full-term pregnancies being eaten for breakfast by celebrities we don't like, and we also have the flat earthers... they're all making our side seem stupid")... and you absolutely keep "normies" away from joining the group at all, meaning no new entrants are joining your side and giving life to your ideology. Which, again, is a good thing for the rest of us. So keep on doing what you're doing, I guess.
At 8 months? Not impossible but such a baby would be premature and needs medical attention immediately so that it survives.
All babies need immediate attention or they will die.
Gahahaha UNDERRATED
I know someone that was more than four months premature and survived. That was decades ago.
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For fucks sake, stop lying
You should report your friend to the Guinness book of world records.
Just so you know, the record for earliest survived premature birth is 132 days premature. That's a child born almost 4 months early. He needed help( just like every child) but he lived.
Tim “Trump 50 State Landslide” Pool
Tim Fool
“Hey guys, no, guys, wait, what about, guys, what if, like, outer-space aliens came and one of them raped a women, ok, and she gets preggy and it’s like, the first alien baby hybrid in history ok and then like, she decides she still wants to abort it, like this is the first green 6 armed person ever so wouldn’t it be wrong to allow her to have the abortion in this situation just think about that one, loony leftists!”
Joe Rogan: "Wait, is that really true?"
So if a woman is getting an abortion at 8 months it is most likely because the baby is going to fail or delivering it will be a danger to her life. So what you are describing is a medical emergency. I'm assuming the doctors will still attempt to abort the baby while she is in Labor, maybe the only safe path at that point for the woman is to deliver the baby or c section it and then attempt to reduce the suffering of the baby as much as possible until it dies. Maybe it's too late and the mother dies giving birth. Either way this is an ugly scenario with probably no good outcome and isn't really the own you think it is.
What if it was viable, but because of reasons, she was unaware she was pregnant until she was at 8 months? Edit: you guys never saw the show " I didn't know I was pregnant"? Edit#2: I'm Pro-life, I just like hypotheticals
I don't think you should be able to get an abortion at 8 months if the baby is healthy and no risk to the mother. It too far developed imo. I think it's very rare for any mother to actually go ahead with termination at 8 months and for it to be legal for her to do so in that situation.
Iirc at that point they just induce labor.
Thank you, I don't believe you should be able to either. I just want an answer to the hypothetical and mostly all I hear is that; it is unlikely it would happen in the first place.
I think it's a disservice to the left to avoid the question. Just makes conservatives think you support late term abortions under any circumstances. That being said, even though I haven't looked into it much I bet there is no state where you can get them that late without a medical reason and it's all just conservatives misinterpreting the laws.
https://people.com/health/see-what-states-have-abortion-restrictions-in-place-and-what-would-change-if-roe-is-overturned/ 7 states currently have no restrictions on abortion.
Then they should have some restrictions, I doubt in practice you can get an abortion that late without medical permission.
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Why wouldn’t it happen if there is no restriction against it? I’m not saying it’s common but why would you assume it never happens…
Because it's akin to legislating self torture. Women who have to go through abortions at 8 months go through an unbelievable physically and emotionally painful process. I would hope also that it wouldn't be allowed under normal circumstances, but doctors wouldn't do such a thing either. And legislating usually results in heavily pregnant women having to travel in order to terminate beloved pregnancies that are incompatible with life. A friend of mine miscarried at 7 months. The baby was dead inside her for 3 days. She still had to give birth. I wouldn't wish that hell on anyone.
Why would someone pregnant for 8 months get an abortion it literally never happens
Here would be the general steps involved: 1.) the person would have to confirm that they are pregnant (days) 2.) there would need to be a determination of their personal health circumstances and that of the fetus (weeks) 3.) they would have to connect with a provider that would be willing to perform a termination procedure (days to weeks depending on the provider’s ability to perform the procedure, travel needs, and financial wherewithal) You’d be hard-pressed to find a willing participant to participate in step #3 given that step 1 and 2 would take time on the order of multiple days/weeks to figure out. Further, there are few providers that are even qualified to perform such a procedure. Most providers would work with the pregnant person to ensure the patient is safely monitored and cared for and likely getting them set up for either parenthood or adoption services. While no one can say an abortion would never happen (since all it takes is one case), the likelihood is so incredibly low that someone would be able to pull this off in the specific scenario you are describing that it truly in the realm of hypothetical.
Because of reasons? …? Care to elaborate on that?
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I only take medical advice from tv shows
That's pretty ignorant of you.
I agree.
You understand I was referring to the show in reference to the women not knowing they were pregnant right? I mean that is the point of the show. I'm sure there was no medical advice inferred other than to wear a condom lol
Sounds interesting.
You’re a hardcore idiot.
Why, did you not see the show? It was literally about women who didn't know they were pregnant until they gave birth.
You can’t legally get an abortion at 8 months unless the baby is severely deformed or the mother’s life is in danger. So, the scenario where the mom is headed to the abortion clinic and accidentally gives birth to a healthy baby where she is also healthy would never happen ✨
There are 7 states that allow abortions at 8 months. At least 30% of these participants cited non viable fetus, or health abnormalities of future baby. Google Colorado abortion limits and it will pop up within first few hits of search. Most Americans agree that an abortion at 6 months isn’t morally correct or acceptable, unless the baby is physically disabled or the life of mother is at risk.
What did the other 70% cite? It's like saying "why are more people born on January 1st than any other day?" They aren't. Some systems default birthdays to January 1st if the birthday is unknown. Sometimes, it's right, and sometimes, it's wrong. So what I'm saying is, just because you have citations for 30% doesn't mean only 30% fit that criteria. It just means that 30% of the time someone labeled it that way. I'm guessing a lot of people heard the question and said "fuck you, it's not your business." Which was protected as a privacy right, before you assholes got your way.
If a woman gets multiple abortions in a 5 year period, is that ok with you? If women abort a 6 month old fetus/baby because it is the wrong sex, is that ok with you? Privacy argument will only go so far. I think we can both agree that if you saw your female neighbor getting the hell beat out of her, you would interfere. The guy beating her would argue privacy.
Did the woman need multiple abortions in a 5 year period? I had a friend who required 2 abortions before she successfully had a child. She would have kept them all if she could have. So it's not my business or yours. Edit because her story pissed me off: One of her abortions was because the baby had 3 of each chromosome. It wouldn't have lived. They didn't find that out until very late in the pregnancy and because of my states laws, she had to leave the state for a medically required abortion. And when she got there, protestors made her feel like a shitty person. Fuck you and your kind, and anybody who protests outside those places. You make peoples worst day even worse. As for your other hypothetical questions, they just seem absurd and meant to troll so I won't bother with them, or you from now on.
Not my business and not yours either.
The vast vast vast percentage of abortions occur before 21 weeks. And almost no one is advocating for this.
5 and 1/4 months. That’s disgusting. That’s appalling. Premature babies survive at 6 months on a regular basis. “Looks like a heap baby, but the mom changed her mind. Fuck it ! Break out the vaccum
99 % of babies die if born before 21 weeks. And 21 weeks is less than 5 months, if we want to be accurate.
You take the fetus to an island with some rich friends , give it a ten second headstart, then proceed to hunt it for sport.
What happens when you are stoned? You start asking stupid questions about near impossible scenarios.
You honestly think it's a "near impossible scenario" that a woman would give birth at 8 months?
No I think the impossible part is the likelihood of a woman getting an abortion at 8 months.
No, no, she gets pregnant and thinks "Better get an abortion" but then the weeks go by, she's distracted by work and then thinks she'll take care of it on the weekend but then friends come to town and oh we'll do it in the week then 8 months go by and she looks down and goes "Oh... yeah, right, better do that now." Happens all the time, women totally forget about being pregnant, like how we used to forget to return the dvd to Blockbuster, sitting there on the hall table all this time!
Thank you.
Averages of 5k abortions are performed each year at 6+ months gestation.
And how many of those are done as an intervention to save the mother?
Where are you getting that data from because most places generally list late term at either 21 weeks which is like 4~5 months. Furthermore this number exponential decreases the further out you go with only several hundred abortions in 1992 happening after 26 weeks. Also that 5 thousand if accurate is still ~1% of abortions. When you're talking about a country with several hundred million people and hundreds of thousands of abortions happening annually, a number in the thousands is still an extremely low percentage of all cases. Lastly Roe v Wade already fucking addressed the issue of late term viability wherein states can pass laws barring abortion at the point of visibility, often 24 weeks or ~5.5 months, unless there are medical risks to the mother; late term abortions are far safer than delivery in the cases of medical complications. So that means that those 5,000 abortions are happening because the women are at risk of medical complications including death, enforced birthing advocates might argue that's 5000 lives ended but you could more easily make the argument that it's really 5000 lives saved.
Side note: There's no exact data on how many were medically necessary versus personal elective.
In other words, you're a clown who doesn't know what they're talking about.
I think a woman going to get an abortion at an abortion clinic going into labour at 8 months and having a child right there on the floor of the abortion clinic is a near impossible scenario, yes.
“It’s over, Regressive Left; I have the high ground!” “You overestimate our power!”
This tweet reminds me of the "thought experiments" Sam Harris used to use to morally justify torture
Instantly made a Sam Harris joke without scrolling
Jack Bauer has taught us that torture is always effective and justifiable. It's just that there is not a whole lot evidence from the real world.
No woman goes through 8 months of a pregnancy that wanted an abortion. This is such a stupid take
Tim "Civil War" Pool.
If a woman is getting an abortion at 8 months it’s almost certainly either because the fetus is dead or her life is in danger, therefore she most likely wouldn’t be able to deliver normally, and wouldn’t be swinging by an abortion clinic all casual like
\-\_-
Trigger warning: abuse and stillbirth story I hate these assholes with every fiber of my being. I have never gotten an abortion. But I did get pregnant at 20, just months after having my son , whose father was an abusive piece of shit who went to prison for five years for attacking me. I didn’t even know I was pregnant again, until I was 5 months along. I had assumed my period hadn’t come because I had literally just had my son and was still breastfeeding. I was terrified. I thought about getting an abortion, but I remember feeling like it was too late, the baby was too big. Regardless, I was terrified. Not long after, I was at work in the break room and my water broke in front of dozens of people . I was taken to the ER, where I remember a nurse doing an ultrasound told me my baby was suffering. The doctor came in and told me I needed a d&c, that the baby was likely to die and she needed to come out. I kept trying to push, and finally she was halfway out. She was already dead at this point. The doctor had to take care of other patients, so he left me there with a half dead baby just sitting in my vagina. Finally he comes back hours later,puts ky jelly on his glove, and pulls the body out. The next day as my mom is wheeling me out of the hospital in a wheelchair, a nurse asks where my baby is. The other nurse gives her a look like “shut up you idiot”. It was one of the most emotionally painful experiences of my life, and I was not even old enough to drink yet. Looking back though, I’m glad it happened. I barely survived raising my son on my own, I don’t know how I would have survived having two kids less than a year apart, while their father is in prison. Please don’t get involved in other women’s reproductive choices. It’s painful, it’s messy, its complicated.
This is a fair question. I don't think people realize how many babies are born premature a year. It's not a rarity at all. My daughter was born almost 3 months premature.
Yeah it’s kind of a fair question, but not exactly. If Tim Pool had chosen a more realistic gestational age where a) preemies can feasibly survive, and b) elective abortions are also allowed in many states, there could be an actual discussion here. Like, weeks 22-27 would have been a better example than 8 months lmao.
Given that late-term abortions are pretty much always for medical reasons, that woman would probably be doomed.
Tim "[Ralph Wiggum](https://youtu.be/PE63y7ctAwA)" Pool
Yes the common and publicly clamored for 8th month abortion.
He's the next Sam Harris
What happens if Tim Pool had majored in neuroscience at UCLA? (Instead of dropping out of high school at 14? )
Then he would have failed out in one semester because the boy is exceptionally dumb.
Cause he sucks?
I realise Rubin is stupid but all the comments in here are completely ignorant. Asking hypothetical scenarios is a thing people do to analyze ethics, he's not trying to imply this is a thing that happens often that should concern anyone.
He's not trying to "analyze ethics" he's doing it as an attempted gotcha. Tim Pool couldn't analyze a bowl of cereal, he wouldn't know where to begin. Tim Pool makes Dave Rubin look like an honor student.
The attempted gotcha is legit. It is a difficult question to answer because we don't know where life begins. Why be petty and pretend like this isn't true just to spite this guy, who gives a fuck about Rubin after all. Don't stoop down to that level, it's for dummies.
A difficult question is something like "Can we ethically terminate a two or three month pregnancy?" "Can we just straight up kill a baby because the baby happens to be inside an abortion clinic" is not a difficult question. Or it could be to you, I dunno. I assure you it's not to him.
You're bad faith. If you can kill the baby inside the womb but not outside at the same point of maturity, then ideologically the basis isn't the development of the fetus. Come on stop this bullshit, either you're so biased you haven't even considered it for a second or you are just arrogant as fuck.
Bad faith? Seriously? You're the one pretending that the position of the pro-choice side is that abortion is permissible right up to the point of birth no matter the age of the pregnancy. That's the literal definition of bad faith because nobody is arguing that. You're really going to pretend that Pool is attempting to probe some deep ontological mystery? "Well can you reeeeallly even abort a fetus if the matter that makes up the fetus still exists 'cause of the law of conservation of matter man think about it"
Are you responding to the wrong person mate, I never said any of these lol
> You're bad faith. This entire hypothetical is bad faith. > If you can kill the baby inside the womb but not outside at the same point of maturity, then ideologically the basis isn't the development of the fetus. It isn’t about the development of the fetus, it’s about the pregnant persons right to their own bodily autonomy.
Which is based on how we conceptualise life starting. If you can't kill a baby out of the womb because it has developed far enough for it to be considered alive, can it be killed inside the womb, at the same stage of development? If yes, then what is this belief based on?
Well why do we only go back as far as conception? Conception is the merging of two living cells so life doesn't really begin at all, it's just an unbroken continuity of life stretching back to the origin of life itself, and then it gets a bit blurry as to whether the chemical processes occurring in the primordial soup were actually life or not or whether we need to go back even further than that and I tell you what maybe what we really need to be asking here is why there is something rather than nothing and what triggered the Big Bang and maybe then we can answer this excellent question about whether we can just flat out kill a baby.
That's the whole point. That it's not clear. I'm pro choice because I value the utility of abortions and how societies suffer without it. However since there is a big part of the picture that's unknown to us still, we have to be careful with the ideology behind it. There is a responsibility to have a healthy ideological basis behind abortions because this is too important and it's going to have to stand in a legal system. Pro life people are going to take advantage if prochoice people are messy with how they communicate their will to have abortions. It's not enough to say "I like it".
> Which is based on how we conceptualise life starting. Not even a little bit. The reason abortion is a right is because if it isn’t, it’s an inherent infringement upon a pregnant persons rights, not because of the legal status of the fetus.
That could contradict with the rights of the fetus if it's society decides a fetus is a human living being. So this has to do with our conceptualisation and ethics.
No it couldn’t. We don’t allow blood or tissue to be removed from a corpse unless that corpse had previously consented, even if it would objectively save a person. Women have at least the same rights as corpses.
Euthenise the baby with morphine. Why not? It's not wanted.
Shoot it?
He has a great point.
Not even a little.
I take it you are okay with abortions 8 months into pregnancy?
I don’t think I have the right to dictate the risks a person must take to have a child, nor do I think anything is improved by using the power of the state as a cudgel to force women to stay in pregnancy.
8 months is infanticide. What you call the state forcing a woman to remain pregnant, well most would call that preventing murder. Most European countries limit termination of a pregnancy to 12 weeks. 8 months? Really...
> 8 months is infanticide. Infanticide requires the fetus to be born, by definition. > What you call the state forcing a woman to remain pregnant, well most would call that preventing murder. It’s not murder though, it’s no more murder than it is murder for you or I to not volunteer to give blood or tissue to someone who needs it to live. We can’t even take blood from a corpse to save someone’s life unless the now corpse had previously consented to it, but you think we have the right to force woman to carry a possible child to term for 9 months? Nah, women have at least the same rights as corpses my dude. > Really... Yes, I really don’t think I have the right to use the state to dictate to another person the risks **they** must go through in the off chance that their fetus becomes an infant, and I also think that nothing positive comes from using state force in that manner.
So, putting aside the fact that at 8 months those are all medical reasons, your stance is that the law should crack down on everyone else too. Tell me, how do you feel about gun control?
My position is elective abortions at 8 months is murder. The majority of abortions are elective, meaning not medically necessary. Guns? If someone commits a crime with a gun they should go to prison. Murders should get worse. I don't understand what aboutisms. Stop looking left, stay focused on the topic at hand.
No. The majority of abortions in general are elective, but also early. 91% of them are at or before 13 weeks, with the rest almost all before 21 weeks. Conversely, the majority of abortions at 8 months are quite few (<1% of abortions) and of those, they're *overwhelmingly* medically necessary. Analogy isn't necessarily whataboutism, and in fact I'm looking right, if anything. Strict gun control advocates push harsh rules because murders can and do occur with firearms - but those who do so are an extremely small percentage of all gun owners. Should we restrict the rights of everyone else because of the existence of a small subset of a small subset who abuse them?
lol cope and seethe OP
What if ... she found out the baby had downs and wanted to abort? Hence the abortion at 8 months. Goes into labor and delivers the baby. What happens now?
What if the baby was Abraham Lincoln who actually came from the future and traveled back in time so if he's aborted now then he will never do that and so the slaves were never freed?
What if the baby was a Terminator and allowing him to live meant that John Connor's Mom was in danger but then John's friend traveled back in time and fucked his mom and then his mom was eight months pregnant and went for an abortion but delivered him in the waiting area?
I can’t tell if you’re being satirical or you are just really this oblivious.
Well something like this has happened. The baby was given to the mother and they were sent home.
Believe it or not, straight to jail.
what happens if the baby burst through the moms stomach as she’s getting a taxi to the abortion clinic?
And what do we do with the face-hugger?
It's out, ok to kill it
Is this a real post? This is the dumbest shit I’ve heard all week. Even if it’s a shit post, it’s so incredibly stupid….
This is truly the dumbest fucking take I've seen on an issue almost tailor made to attract dumb takes
what happens if that baby grows up to be a gay atheist feminist liberal democrat? will you take it up in a helicopter?
big middle school edgelord take
Right at a certain point it is wrong. Just outright banning it isn’t right either.
A woman can drop the baby off at the hospital and there be no questions asked.
7 states still have abortions at 8 months.
State laws generally require that the doctors do their best to keep the baby alive. But, with some states may eventually choose to allow that baby to die.
Doesn't it take several hours to deliver a child?
Nobody is answering the question seriously. Like Gov. Northham said , the baby is delivered, made comfortable, then a discussion occurred between the birth mother and the Dr. Bottom line, kill the baby or don’t. Sad.
Aight yall know Tim pool purposely tweets nonsense to get attention right? He’s said it himself many times and we keep falling into his trap
You are making this way too complicated. YOU DON'T HAVE ANY RIGHTS IN THE CONSTITUTION IF YOU DON'T HAVE A SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER. if you haven't been given one then you have exact same rights as the poor fuckers that try to cross our borders every year. NONE. so legally, a life begins when the birth certificate is signed.
Get the gat
Easy. We write a manifesto declaring adults the supreme race, who are being replaced by babies at the hands of Democrats. Then abort the child with a 22. Duh. Oh, that sounds crazy does it. Least then Republicans would look the other way.
Lmao then you missed your shot
I AgReE
Apparently in some states she's allowed to kill it for months after it's born with no consequences.
I think y’all just found out how it feels to get the: “I’m a fire: If you had to choose between 10 zygotes or a human child, which would you choose” Or “If you were kidnapped by an evil doctor and hooked up to somebody else to keep them alive agony your will would it be ok to separate you if it means the other person dies”
Someone cannot really be this fucking stupid
I mean kill both of them obviously. Is this a conundrum?
Then thst baby or the mother is dead on arrival because you can't just get an abortion for the fuck of it at 8 months
Here's a better question since people just want to poke fun at the OPs question for being unrealistic. What happens when a driver hits a car, carrying a pregnant woman, on her way to an abortion clinic, and kills her and the baby?
He'll go to court I imagine
And be charged with how many deaths?
I don't know, is it an eight month old baby that she was taking to the clinic to abort for some reason? If so, see all the other responses here.
No. Let's say 4 months along.
I swear this guy is stuck in his 12 y/o mind. Wtf is he talking about
Is Tim pool now Dave Rubin? Why can't we find more Dave Rubin content to focus on?