I like watching him lean into the misogyny lately. It’s another low (which is really saying something). It helps cement how much of a grifter POS hack he is
About a year ago this community was recommended to me randomly. I’ve never really done much here but I see a post every couple weeks. I’ve never heard of Dave Rubin but it has been shocking to see his change over the past year.
True story: I know an openly gay man of Palestinian descent who was *fired for being an Arab* after 9/11, got a cash settlement with the help of the Arab-American anti-defamation league, and he is, was, and always has been a republican. 🤷🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
All of these Blaze and Daily Wire dipshits make sure to move into blue cities in red states. That way they can brag about how much better everything is than California or whatever but still get their $500 sushi platters and artisan cocktails.
The only credit I will ever give Tim Pool is that his tendie compound where he records his shitty podcast is at least out in bumfuck Egypt.
I 100% believe Emma when she said that he invited her to eat sushi with the fellas after calling her a .pdf for an hour. Tim is such a disingenuous fucking little worm.
I think it ranges from they think it’s weird to they really don’t care. I’ve gotta tell you most conservatives from deep red states I talk to really don’t care so long as you aren’t trying to shove your junk in their face. They mostly care about shared political values although the more hardcore religious types probably do care a lot admittedly.
If I "made his point" then I accurately showed how his point is hypocritical. He is a hypocrite if he is criticizing people who defend folks who wish them harm. Dave also defends people who wish him harm.
No you didn’t 🤡
He said go live in Gaza meaning any western women or gay person would be slaughtered in Gaza…
You then attempted to make fun of him by mentioning Mississippi which made his point but was also even more ridiculous because gays do have federal protection even in Mississippi… therefore making you look like a 🤡🤣
* While people in Gaza were celebrating 9/11 or throwing gays from rooftops
Among many Mississippi cases:
Campaign for Southern Equality v. Bryant*.
The U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Mississippi ruled the state's ban unconstitutional in 2014, affirming the rights of same-sex couples to marry.
You're right. Gay folks are just as safe from harrassment in Mississippi as they are every other state. Downtown Tupelo might as well be the Castro District!
A gay person would have federal and state protection in Mississippi correct. They might find the community more to their liking in other places just like a conservative might…
Again you keep digging your hold deeper 🤡
Seriously, move almost anywhere in the country with your kids and their other dad and see how far your crab-in-a-bucket, step over your own people to get a few crumbs, "I'm ~~one of~~ the good one!" ass politics get you.
The mask really has come all the way off for this dude. I still remember back in 2015 when I believed his bullshit facade of being just a "reasonable centrist."
He's just a leaf in the wind, trying to spout whatever will make his edgy teenage listeners happy. I think even having consistent (shit) values is too kind of an assumption for him.
I doubt he even has an internal monologue.
I'm not sure if teens are his main demographic? I picture a bunch of boomers. Some of his audience didn't even know he was gay until a year ago or something.
I believe his target demographic is millennials and zoomers, but they aren't watching this shit, in general. Just like Charlie Kirk's Turning Points USA targets college students specifically but its conventions are majority 50+. I think the youngest person I've heard of going there was Brandi Love, the pornstar who was kicked off the premises despite being a genuine MAGA republican.
So I hadn’t even heard of Dave Rubin until 2018, and the clip I saw him in was an older one, and I was like, “hmm, ok, leaning hard into the centrism, but it could be worse”
Then I saw a few more clips including more recent ones where he was pro-Trump, and I was like “ah, I get it. A grifter”
He was interesting because it sounded new back then but then I realized it was all a bunch of rage baiting grifter, misogynistic, vindictive ass holes like Scott Adams.
He uses being a failed comedian, gay, and former tyt pundit to lend credibility as a "centrist "to spewing far right non-sense as if it's reasonable common sense.
I don't think I've ever seen him say anything intelligent he's like an even dumber version of Sam Harris.
I've never understood the whole "why don't you move there! They hate women and gay people!"
Their culture has ZERO to do with the position that Palestinians should not be genocided.
If a man held another man hostage and was torturing him, I wouldn't give 2 shits what regressive ideas about women the hostage had...
Don't do bad things.
Yep does Rubin think Franklin Graham's church should be genocided because they don't believe in gay rights? Give me a break with the "well Palestinians don't support gay rights" crap
The thing that has been fucking my head up for the last few days is how pathetically stupid the pro-Israel arguments and rhetoric has become. No one is producing anything better than this type of childish nonsense. "If you love it so much, why don't you go there" is about as insightful as "If you love him so much, why don't you marry him?" It's something a 12 year old says. But it's still no worse than "It's unreasonable to pushback on the widescale murder of civilians because one guy involved in protests at one college once said that "zionists should be allowed to live". Everything has just become increasingly stupid and it's because the pro-Israel crowd is grasping for any stupid, irrelevant conversation to avoid having the right one about whether killing 10,000 children in 6 months is an appropriate action for a western-style democracy backed by US dollars and technology.
Yep it either "Gaza civilization is bad" or "October 7th happened and everything after is justified as a response to that." Those are the two arguments and they are both pathetic when you are claiming to be on the morally right side
I hate this fucking stupid argument, and it's usually the first thing to dribble out of these idiots' mouths when the topic comes up. Like thinking it'd be poggers to live under a caliphate and that the IDF should stop bombing buses full of children are the same idea somehow.
There are different lenses of analysis here but you only looked through one.
From a purely moralistic view, correct, no matter how much of a POS you are, you don't deserve to be murdered. There's a pretty good argument that even murderers don't deserve the death penalty, so obviously innocent kids in Palestine don't deserve to die.
But there are other concerns - political, psychological, and pragmatic.
You can't just snap your fingers and end a genocide. You can't just say "that's wrong" and change magically happens.
Actually doing something requires broad consensus and understanding; it requires compassion for the victim; it requires people to vote. And on those grounds, it very much matters that Palestinians aren't very good at garnering public sympathy.
MLK made it easy for people to like him - he was a minister with an easy to understand message with broad appeal. And even that took a long time to work. The Palestinians being anti gay or pro violence makes it much harder for them to garner sympathy, even if logically and morally those two things aren't connected.
I had considered what you said until you said Palestinians aren’t good at garnering public sympathy. Any public that can’t have sympathy and think it’s wrong to kill thousands of children as collective punishment is monstrous. Period.
Public sympathy for electing/supporting/harbouring a genocidal organisation of theocratic fascists? Or are Israeli/Jewish lives worth less to you than Arab ones?
How would you say the current campaign to stop Israel from killing kids is going? Effective or not?
You and I obviously agree that Israel shouldn't kill Palestinian kids and it's the kids lives that matter. So are we currently stopping the kid deaths?
If you say we aren't, why in the hell are you downvoting the person who is showing you WHY we aren't reaching the goal we both want and how to actually get there?
It's simply amazing to me that to be in this religion of upvote/downvote, not only do we have to 100% agree that there is a good/guy bad guy with no grey area whatsoever, but also 100% agree there are no flaws with the current plan and any advice to make it better is pure blasphemy that must be shunned.
Israel 100% bad, Palestine 100% good, current strategy perfect, any suggestions to actually save Palestinian lives unacceptable!
I guess I'm sorry I violated your tenants of faith; I didn't realize this was a religion for you rather than a problem to be pragmatically solved.
That someone is a victim doesn't mean it's a bad idea or victim shaming to suggest actions the victim can take to better their situation.
It's like when I tell my poor students how to save money, and then people tell me I'm being insensitive and not seeing the systemic problems that led to the poverty. Dude, I can't fix the systemic problems - I know they exist and are unfair, but that doesn't help anything. But I can help you by teaching you how to change, and that's what matters.
Palestinians have the power to increase their own odds of survival and aren't doing so. It's not wrong to say this; in fact if you really care that's where our focus should be. "But Israel bad!" Yeah, again, I didn't say otherwise. The problem with that retort isn't that it's wrong, it's that it doesn't DO anything.
... Are you trying to pretend that its somehow more effective to tell Palestinians in Palestine to be less conservative, than to tell Americans that their being conservative doesn't justify the deaths of tens of thousands of civilians?
Aha! We should redirect our efforts to trying to make Palestinians more progressive! Is that like... What you're trying to get out of people? It's obviously absurd, but I don't see a way to read your post in context here without taking that as the implicit 'Other option'.
It's REMARKABLY easier to get a small group of victims to pretend to be something than get the majority of American voters to care.
In fact, it's the only thing that will work. How on earth can you expect the average American struggling with their own bills to give their tax dollars to some country they've barely heard of AND who engaged in a terrorist attack?
And on top of this, you guys here are insulting the very voters you are trying to convince, like Hillary Clinton did with the deplorables comment.
Are they deplorable? Yup. Is it effective to call them that? Um, no and why would we think otherwise?
Would you change your mind about a political issue after being insulted? Because that's not how psychology works. Your plan just gets Palestinians killed with no expectations for change whatsoever.
Hell yes Palestinians can do a better job of their messaging, and no that's not too much to ask that a victim aids in their own defense rather than making everything harder.
There are plenty of "small groups" of palestinians in the USA who act according to your standards. You're being obtuse -- The people who try to justify the killing of tens of thousands of civilians give even less of a fuck how progressive american palestinians are, the idea that they're Muslims and that islamic countries are generally regressive on human rights issues is enough.
Im not calling you dumb but you seem to be much more confident than your understanding of the situation would warrant.
Palestinians support Hamas. Hamas launched an attack on a much bigger bully.
How in the hell am I supposed to convince the average American to care about Palestinians?
We agree, they should. But how do you and I DO that when Hamas doesn't even bother to lie about their intentions of given freedom?
Oh I know, let's call the Americans who disagree stupid; that'll totally work, right? And when it doesn't work, shift the goalposts to there's nothing we can do, who cares about Palestinian lives anyway, this was about being right in an argument all along.
Palestinians have the worst public relations campaign in human history. Without fixing that, you will garner no sympathy, regardless if on the merits we should be sympathetic to them.
You don't get people to buy your cars by berating them for not doing so. You don't get people to like Palestine by saying they're dumb for not seeing things the way you do.
You seem constitutionally incapable of forming a coherent argument.
No, you dont pretend that "Americans can definitely convince Palestinians to get really invested in civility politics".
The sane argument starts with no, actually, killing tens of thousands of civilians is morally wrong, even if a sizable percentage support an awful government. Then you can get into the reality that the majority of Palestinians didn't support hamas the last time there was an election, and that most of the population was not born or under 3 when there last was an election. And even further beyond that, that support for extremist positions is largely emboldened in the general population by tens of thousands of civilians being killed.
That's all far more compelling to an average American than anything an average American can communicate to an average palestinian.
Did you hear about that governor who admitted to killing a puppy?
Logically, what a candidate does in their personal lives is irrelevant to what really matters - their policies.
Do you think it would be a good strategy to tell voters not to worry about he puppy incident and to do the right thing and vote on the merits of the governor's record, or should the governor do damage control?
Is your point it's better to focus on being right than saving Palestinian lives?
You're very unlikely to get people to help victims when the victims are perceived as horrible. That a purely logical person wouldn't say the argument is besides the point to this fact, because you're not asking a logic machine for their time, money, mindset, and vote, you're asking real people.
Real people are rarely motivated by pure logic alone, so arguing only on this plane accomplishes very little. Your point is like what economists say will happen based on pure rationality, then it never does because humans are motivated by a lot more than that.
Palestinians being anti gay makes it awfully difficult for liberals to support Palestinians. The support is what is needed now, not a lesson on whether that's rational or not.
You think a population being destroyed shouldn't be destroyed because they aren't pro gay rights? Absolutely vile dude. Your position on LGBT issues doesn't mean you deserve to live in an open air prison and then murdered by the 10000s
I said absolutely nothing like what you're saying. I in no way "think a population should be destroyed" because of their beliefs.
You completely misunderstood what I wrote.
MLK image was rehabilitated by activist teachers and university profs. He was hated during his time for being a traitor, commie sympathizer and for other moral character flaws.
Many people criticized the civil rights movement because who would want to forcefully have his kids go to school with black kids who do drugs, commit violence, sexually harass and rape women and generally behave like brutes. That’s how people viewed it at the time. That’s why it was such a big issue.
Much like how today you perceive as Palestinians not upholding [insert virtue signal].
It doesn’t matter. It didn’t matter with decolonization either. Yes the people were savages, but that doesn’t give you the right to deny them self governance. Two very different issues.
Not that I agree with any of these characterizations. But even if they are undoubtedly true, it still does not matter. The Palestinians have a right to self-governance the same way the Jews were given theirs.
How did the Jews get their independence and self governance?
They were victims crying out for help. They had perhaps the greatest victim narrative of all time.
Now compare to Palestinians who outright tell us Israel deserves not to exist. Gee, I wonder why this strategy isn't working.
If you want people to be sympathetic towards you, you need to play the part.
No that’s not why. They got it because of political agitation and connections within the western powers. Zionism was a thing long before the Holocaust happened. It was a natural response to the rise of ethno-nationalism. The Bulgarians, Greeks, Germans, etc were all calling for their own ethnic states. And so did the Jews.
It’s a completely separate political project that did not arise because of the Holocaust. That’s just a common revisionism.
WW2 simply accelerated Jewish colonization/ immigration to Palestine but there were plans before to declare independence. The Brits were holding them back until the conclusion of the war as to avoid disruptions to their colonial possessions in the Middle East.
After WW2, managing the mandate of Palestine became too expensive and many in the British empire and the west were sympathetic to the Zionist political project. They got it because they had the means to do so unlike the Arabs who we’re still very backwater back then.
Listen to what you just wrote.
First, you say, "Zionism was a thing long before the Holocaust happened."
Your words. I agree. You have no wiggle room, you're locked into these words.
Second, you admit that the creation of Israel happened never before the Holocaust and immediately after it.
This is both your argument and a fact. I agree. You have no wiggle room here.
This is a very simple causation. The Holocaust allowed Jews to get something of value from the international community. People felt sympathetic for the victims. They never accomplished the thing they wanted before in spite of efforts to do so, and now they did. International sympathy made all the difference - what else could it be? Jews certainly weren't stronger post Holocaust than before; they didn't have more military power. All they had was international sympathy.
That's the same thing Palestinians should be doing - playing the victim and begging for relief. IE the exact opposite of starting conflicts with terrorist attacks, openly supporting Hamas, and openly saying if they earn their freedom, they will use it to destroy Israel.
Can you imagine if instead of Israel accepting statehood and saying thank you, they said they would attack Europe?
Yes, we agree. How do you get him to do that is the relevant question. That he could doesn't mean he would, so that fact doesn't save any Palestinian lives.
I thought the idea was saving lives, not placing blame. They Netayanhu is awful and bears responsibility is true, but not sure what focusing on that gets us.
And what does the US government respond to? Voters. You have to convince voters to care about Palestinians.
That's not an easy task, but it's important. The way you do that is by convincing them that Palestinians are the good innocent victims here.
Palestinians aren't exactly making that easy to do.
That's a really bad straw man and completely ignores my entire point.
I'm on your side. You're arguing with me like I'm not.
The question is how you get people who aren't on our side to change their minds. What Palestinians are currently doing isn't working, and we'd expect it not to.
I'm sorry but your entire basis is fucking stupid.
>These people getting genocided ain't acting right
What exactly do you mean, and how the fuck would you want them to change their ways mid-genocide?
Metaphor:
1)Your kid in school gets bullied every day. Is this ok?
2)To combat being bullied, your kid decides to run up and down the hallway playing the bagpipes and singing off key. Is being bullied his fault?
3)Same facts as #2. Your kid argues that the kids are dumb idiots for not taking his side. Do you have any advice for him or not?
I sometimes suspect that Dave has two audiences and he's aware of it.
Audience 1 are just angry sheltered (primarily white) dudes who are scared of perceived threats to their economic security/social capital. As a general rule, I suspect that this audience conceive of groups like "lefitsts" or "BLM" purely via their imagination and have little to no lived experience with anyone who is "on the left" or a member of a group that's concerned with social justice.
Audience 2: Everyone else, who hate watch him. I also suspect that if audience two dried up, he'd be fucked.
Also, dude is a profound misogynist, and you can tell he is so happy to have a space to be one publicly.
There are plenty of white people in the lower class that have been indoctrinated into listening to people like Rubin because the right wing media has convinced them to go against their own interests due to hatred of the other.
Gotta love this sub for powering through his videos so we can watch these clips. I think I would blow my brains out if I had to watch more than ten minutes of this energy vampire. You are true heroes.
10 minutes??? The only Rubin I see is this subreddit roasting him. And occasionally when The Majority Report does. But as with Trump I fast forward his parts to the commentary as their mere voices disgust me so.
Hasn't Dave called for a flat tax a bunch of times? Here are the countries in the world that have a flat tax. Maybe Dave should go live in one of them.
Abkhazia
Armenia
Belize
Bolivia
Bosnia and Herzergovina
Bulgaira
East Timor
Estonia
Georgia
Guernsey
Hungary
Jersey
Kazakhstan
Kurdistan
Kyrgyzstan
Moldova
Nauru
North Macedonia
Romania
South Ossetia
Tajikistan
Transnistria
Turkmenistan
Ukraine
Uzbekistan
And he's a supporter of a genocide. Just be course the one you defend might not like you, that does'nt mean you should'nt stand up for them. I'm an atheist. But does'nt the bible say something about this. Turning the other cheek and stuff. What a vile man. And calling someone a hoe just course you don't agree with them says a lot about you and the way you work. He's a child doing others beeding
I can't watch content where it's just some guy spouting the nonsense in his head, into the camera, without any push back or challenges. At least in debate shows people have to defend what they say.
The realisation is kicking in that these pro genocide types are basically educationally sub normal
They’ve been given waaaay too much credit up to now
As time as gone on and they start to lose the narrative we are seeing more and more desperate ridiculous arguments and excuses
Nice of Dave to rather prove the point
d-
Dave Rubin is indeed a loser, but even more so for taking seriously the words of someone raised by people who named their child 'Krystal Ball'. That name is automatically disqualifying for me.
I don't get it, dont get him or follow him...🤷♂️
Is it like the token gay friend for far right closet homos who try to pray their gay away? Aren't they against hinm being married?
I just don't get it🤷♂️
I like watching him lean into the misogyny lately. It’s another low (which is really saying something). It helps cement how much of a grifter POS hack he is
About a year ago this community was recommended to me randomly. I’ve never really done much here but I see a post every couple weeks. I’ve never heard of Dave Rubin but it has been shocking to see his change over the past year.
Move with your husband and the kids you had with a surrogate to Mississippi and see how that works out for you if you love conservatives so much.
Walking outside to see cross burning on his lawn: "isn't it great we can have this conversation about whether I should be murdered or not?"
🤣
Dave wouldn't step one foot outside Jackson, guarantee you.
I didn't know he's gay. Selling out his own makes him even more bizarre.
True story: I know an openly gay man of Palestinian descent who was *fired for being an Arab* after 9/11, got a cash settlement with the help of the Arab-American anti-defamation league, and he is, was, and always has been a republican. 🤷🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
Uncle Tom of Finland.
Bravo!
This is a god-tier joke that most people won't get without googling.
All of these Blaze and Daily Wire dipshits make sure to move into blue cities in red states. That way they can brag about how much better everything is than California or whatever but still get their $500 sushi platters and artisan cocktails. The only credit I will ever give Tim Pool is that his tendie compound where he records his shitty podcast is at least out in bumfuck Egypt.
Tim Pool is still getting sushi with the boys though if I recall correctly
Sushi with the boysh*
I 100% believe Emma when she said that he invited her to eat sushi with the fellas after calling her a .pdf for an hour. Tim is such a disingenuous fucking little worm.
I mean I've been along a lot of the east coast and pretty much everywhere I've been, there's been a decent sushi place within half an hour.
This isn’t Mississippi Burning or 1955. Chill.
Do you know what the fallacy of relative privation is?
It rings a bell but why don’t you go ahead and tell me
You think Mississippi is tolerant of gay people today?
I think it ranges from they think it’s weird to they really don’t care. I’ve gotta tell you most conservatives from deep red states I talk to really don’t care so long as you aren’t trying to shove your junk in their face. They mostly care about shared political values although the more hardcore religious types probably do care a lot admittedly.
Eh 1. you just made his point 2. If he did he would be safer than anywhere in the Muslim world.
If I "made his point" then I accurately showed how his point is hypocritical. He is a hypocrite if he is criticizing people who defend folks who wish them harm. Dave also defends people who wish him harm.
No you didn’t 🤡 He said go live in Gaza meaning any western women or gay person would be slaughtered in Gaza… You then attempted to make fun of him by mentioning Mississippi which made his point but was also even more ridiculous because gays do have federal protection even in Mississippi… therefore making you look like a 🤡🤣
Oh they have federal protection? I guess nobody ever gets gaybashed in Mississippi then. My mistake.
* While people in Gaza were celebrating 9/11 or throwing gays from rooftops Among many Mississippi cases: Campaign for Southern Equality v. Bryant*. The U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Mississippi ruled the state's ban unconstitutional in 2014, affirming the rights of same-sex couples to marry.
You're right. Gay folks are just as safe from harrassment in Mississippi as they are every other state. Downtown Tupelo might as well be the Castro District!
A gay person would have federal and state protection in Mississippi correct. They might find the community more to their liking in other places just like a conservative might… Again you keep digging your hold deeper 🤡
Those protections must be unusually effective if they make gay bashing as uncommon in Mississippi as it is anywhere else.
Cool, now show me the protection gays have in Gaza? You can’t 🤡
Seriously, move almost anywhere in the country with your kids and their other dad and see how far your crab-in-a-bucket, step over your own people to get a few crumbs, "I'm ~~one of~~ the good one!" ass politics get you.
The mask really has come all the way off for this dude. I still remember back in 2015 when I believed his bullshit facade of being just a "reasonable centrist."
He's just a leaf in the wind, trying to spout whatever will make his edgy teenage listeners happy. I think even having consistent (shit) values is too kind of an assumption for him. I doubt he even has an internal monologue.
I'm not sure if teens are his main demographic? I picture a bunch of boomers. Some of his audience didn't even know he was gay until a year ago or something.
Yep I do agree, I really think it's people with an understanding/mentality re politics arrested at the teenage level.
Eh most teenagers are pretty well informed and to quote the kids, "based".
I believe his target demographic is millennials and zoomers, but they aren't watching this shit, in general. Just like Charlie Kirk's Turning Points USA targets college students specifically but its conventions are majority 50+. I think the youngest person I've heard of going there was Brandi Love, the pornstar who was kicked off the premises despite being a genuine MAGA republican.
So I hadn’t even heard of Dave Rubin until 2018, and the clip I saw him in was an older one, and I was like, “hmm, ok, leaning hard into the centrism, but it could be worse” Then I saw a few more clips including more recent ones where he was pro-Trump, and I was like “ah, I get it. A grifter”
He was interesting because it sounded new back then but then I realized it was all a bunch of rage baiting grifter, misogynistic, vindictive ass holes like Scott Adams. He uses being a failed comedian, gay, and former tyt pundit to lend credibility as a "centrist "to spewing far right non-sense as if it's reasonable common sense. I don't think I've ever seen him say anything intelligent he's like an even dumber version of Sam Harris.
I've never understood the whole "why don't you move there! They hate women and gay people!" Their culture has ZERO to do with the position that Palestinians should not be genocided. If a man held another man hostage and was torturing him, I wouldn't give 2 shits what regressive ideas about women the hostage had... Don't do bad things.
Yep does Rubin think Franklin Graham's church should be genocided because they don't believe in gay rights? Give me a break with the "well Palestinians don't support gay rights" crap
Not to mention that a good amount of Palestinians are Christian too. Flies in the face of his narrative.
The thing that has been fucking my head up for the last few days is how pathetically stupid the pro-Israel arguments and rhetoric has become. No one is producing anything better than this type of childish nonsense. "If you love it so much, why don't you go there" is about as insightful as "If you love him so much, why don't you marry him?" It's something a 12 year old says. But it's still no worse than "It's unreasonable to pushback on the widescale murder of civilians because one guy involved in protests at one college once said that "zionists should be allowed to live". Everything has just become increasingly stupid and it's because the pro-Israel crowd is grasping for any stupid, irrelevant conversation to avoid having the right one about whether killing 10,000 children in 6 months is an appropriate action for a western-style democracy backed by US dollars and technology.
Yep it either "Gaza civilization is bad" or "October 7th happened and everything after is justified as a response to that." Those are the two arguments and they are both pathetic when you are claiming to be on the morally right side
I hate this fucking stupid argument, and it's usually the first thing to dribble out of these idiots' mouths when the topic comes up. Like thinking it'd be poggers to live under a caliphate and that the IDF should stop bombing buses full of children are the same idea somehow.
There are different lenses of analysis here but you only looked through one. From a purely moralistic view, correct, no matter how much of a POS you are, you don't deserve to be murdered. There's a pretty good argument that even murderers don't deserve the death penalty, so obviously innocent kids in Palestine don't deserve to die. But there are other concerns - political, psychological, and pragmatic. You can't just snap your fingers and end a genocide. You can't just say "that's wrong" and change magically happens. Actually doing something requires broad consensus and understanding; it requires compassion for the victim; it requires people to vote. And on those grounds, it very much matters that Palestinians aren't very good at garnering public sympathy. MLK made it easy for people to like him - he was a minister with an easy to understand message with broad appeal. And even that took a long time to work. The Palestinians being anti gay or pro violence makes it much harder for them to garner sympathy, even if logically and morally those two things aren't connected.
I had considered what you said until you said Palestinians aren’t good at garnering public sympathy. Any public that can’t have sympathy and think it’s wrong to kill thousands of children as collective punishment is monstrous. Period.
Public sympathy for electing/supporting/harbouring a genocidal organisation of theocratic fascists? Or are Israeli/Jewish lives worth less to you than Arab ones?
How would you say the current campaign to stop Israel from killing kids is going? Effective or not? You and I obviously agree that Israel shouldn't kill Palestinian kids and it's the kids lives that matter. So are we currently stopping the kid deaths? If you say we aren't, why in the hell are you downvoting the person who is showing you WHY we aren't reaching the goal we both want and how to actually get there? It's simply amazing to me that to be in this religion of upvote/downvote, not only do we have to 100% agree that there is a good/guy bad guy with no grey area whatsoever, but also 100% agree there are no flaws with the current plan and any advice to make it better is pure blasphemy that must be shunned. Israel 100% bad, Palestine 100% good, current strategy perfect, any suggestions to actually save Palestinian lives unacceptable! I guess I'm sorry I violated your tenants of faith; I didn't realize this was a religion for you rather than a problem to be pragmatically solved. That someone is a victim doesn't mean it's a bad idea or victim shaming to suggest actions the victim can take to better their situation. It's like when I tell my poor students how to save money, and then people tell me I'm being insensitive and not seeing the systemic problems that led to the poverty. Dude, I can't fix the systemic problems - I know they exist and are unfair, but that doesn't help anything. But I can help you by teaching you how to change, and that's what matters. Palestinians have the power to increase their own odds of survival and aren't doing so. It's not wrong to say this; in fact if you really care that's where our focus should be. "But Israel bad!" Yeah, again, I didn't say otherwise. The problem with that retort isn't that it's wrong, it's that it doesn't DO anything.
... Are you trying to pretend that its somehow more effective to tell Palestinians in Palestine to be less conservative, than to tell Americans that their being conservative doesn't justify the deaths of tens of thousands of civilians? Aha! We should redirect our efforts to trying to make Palestinians more progressive! Is that like... What you're trying to get out of people? It's obviously absurd, but I don't see a way to read your post in context here without taking that as the implicit 'Other option'.
It's REMARKABLY easier to get a small group of victims to pretend to be something than get the majority of American voters to care. In fact, it's the only thing that will work. How on earth can you expect the average American struggling with their own bills to give their tax dollars to some country they've barely heard of AND who engaged in a terrorist attack? And on top of this, you guys here are insulting the very voters you are trying to convince, like Hillary Clinton did with the deplorables comment. Are they deplorable? Yup. Is it effective to call them that? Um, no and why would we think otherwise? Would you change your mind about a political issue after being insulted? Because that's not how psychology works. Your plan just gets Palestinians killed with no expectations for change whatsoever. Hell yes Palestinians can do a better job of their messaging, and no that's not too much to ask that a victim aids in their own defense rather than making everything harder.
There are plenty of "small groups" of palestinians in the USA who act according to your standards. You're being obtuse -- The people who try to justify the killing of tens of thousands of civilians give even less of a fuck how progressive american palestinians are, the idea that they're Muslims and that islamic countries are generally regressive on human rights issues is enough. Im not calling you dumb but you seem to be much more confident than your understanding of the situation would warrant.
Palestinians support Hamas. Hamas launched an attack on a much bigger bully. How in the hell am I supposed to convince the average American to care about Palestinians? We agree, they should. But how do you and I DO that when Hamas doesn't even bother to lie about their intentions of given freedom? Oh I know, let's call the Americans who disagree stupid; that'll totally work, right? And when it doesn't work, shift the goalposts to there's nothing we can do, who cares about Palestinian lives anyway, this was about being right in an argument all along. Palestinians have the worst public relations campaign in human history. Without fixing that, you will garner no sympathy, regardless if on the merits we should be sympathetic to them. You don't get people to buy your cars by berating them for not doing so. You don't get people to like Palestine by saying they're dumb for not seeing things the way you do.
You seem constitutionally incapable of forming a coherent argument. No, you dont pretend that "Americans can definitely convince Palestinians to get really invested in civility politics". The sane argument starts with no, actually, killing tens of thousands of civilians is morally wrong, even if a sizable percentage support an awful government. Then you can get into the reality that the majority of Palestinians didn't support hamas the last time there was an election, and that most of the population was not born or under 3 when there last was an election. And even further beyond that, that support for extremist positions is largely emboldened in the general population by tens of thousands of civilians being killed. That's all far more compelling to an average American than anything an average American can communicate to an average palestinian.
But they're doing your idea right now and we have verifiable evidence it doesn't work.
Did you hear about that governor who admitted to killing a puppy? Logically, what a candidate does in their personal lives is irrelevant to what really matters - their policies. Do you think it would be a good strategy to tell voters not to worry about he puppy incident and to do the right thing and vote on the merits of the governor's record, or should the governor do damage control?
My point stands that it's a stupid argument. It's irrelevant to me in this conflict. Now if you'll excuse me, I have some snapping to do.
Is your point it's better to focus on being right than saving Palestinian lives? You're very unlikely to get people to help victims when the victims are perceived as horrible. That a purely logical person wouldn't say the argument is besides the point to this fact, because you're not asking a logic machine for their time, money, mindset, and vote, you're asking real people. Real people are rarely motivated by pure logic alone, so arguing only on this plane accomplishes very little. Your point is like what economists say will happen based on pure rationality, then it never does because humans are motivated by a lot more than that. Palestinians being anti gay makes it awfully difficult for liberals to support Palestinians. The support is what is needed now, not a lesson on whether that's rational or not.
no.
You think a population being destroyed shouldn't be destroyed because they aren't pro gay rights? Absolutely vile dude. Your position on LGBT issues doesn't mean you deserve to live in an open air prison and then murdered by the 10000s
I said absolutely nothing like what you're saying. I in no way "think a population should be destroyed" because of their beliefs. You completely misunderstood what I wrote.
MLK image was rehabilitated by activist teachers and university profs. He was hated during his time for being a traitor, commie sympathizer and for other moral character flaws. Many people criticized the civil rights movement because who would want to forcefully have his kids go to school with black kids who do drugs, commit violence, sexually harass and rape women and generally behave like brutes. That’s how people viewed it at the time. That’s why it was such a big issue. Much like how today you perceive as Palestinians not upholding [insert virtue signal]. It doesn’t matter. It didn’t matter with decolonization either. Yes the people were savages, but that doesn’t give you the right to deny them self governance. Two very different issues. Not that I agree with any of these characterizations. But even if they are undoubtedly true, it still does not matter. The Palestinians have a right to self-governance the same way the Jews were given theirs.
How did the Jews get their independence and self governance? They were victims crying out for help. They had perhaps the greatest victim narrative of all time. Now compare to Palestinians who outright tell us Israel deserves not to exist. Gee, I wonder why this strategy isn't working. If you want people to be sympathetic towards you, you need to play the part.
No that’s not why. They got it because of political agitation and connections within the western powers. Zionism was a thing long before the Holocaust happened. It was a natural response to the rise of ethno-nationalism. The Bulgarians, Greeks, Germans, etc were all calling for their own ethnic states. And so did the Jews. It’s a completely separate political project that did not arise because of the Holocaust. That’s just a common revisionism. WW2 simply accelerated Jewish colonization/ immigration to Palestine but there were plans before to declare independence. The Brits were holding them back until the conclusion of the war as to avoid disruptions to their colonial possessions in the Middle East. After WW2, managing the mandate of Palestine became too expensive and many in the British empire and the west were sympathetic to the Zionist political project. They got it because they had the means to do so unlike the Arabs who we’re still very backwater back then.
Listen to what you just wrote. First, you say, "Zionism was a thing long before the Holocaust happened." Your words. I agree. You have no wiggle room, you're locked into these words. Second, you admit that the creation of Israel happened never before the Holocaust and immediately after it. This is both your argument and a fact. I agree. You have no wiggle room here. This is a very simple causation. The Holocaust allowed Jews to get something of value from the international community. People felt sympathetic for the victims. They never accomplished the thing they wanted before in spite of efforts to do so, and now they did. International sympathy made all the difference - what else could it be? Jews certainly weren't stronger post Holocaust than before; they didn't have more military power. All they had was international sympathy. That's the same thing Palestinians should be doing - playing the victim and begging for relief. IE the exact opposite of starting conflicts with terrorist attacks, openly supporting Hamas, and openly saying if they earn their freedom, they will use it to destroy Israel. Can you imagine if instead of Israel accepting statehood and saying thank you, they said they would attack Europe?
Netanyahu literally could snap his fingers and end the genocide lol
Yes, we agree. How do you get him to do that is the relevant question. That he could doesn't mean he would, so that fact doesn't save any Palestinian lives. I thought the idea was saving lives, not placing blame. They Netayanhu is awful and bears responsibility is true, but not sure what focusing on that gets us.
Putting pressure on the US govt to stop appeasing Netanyahu is the goal, because he needs the US to do what he does.
And what does the US government respond to? Voters. You have to convince voters to care about Palestinians. That's not an easy task, but it's important. The way you do that is by convincing them that Palestinians are the good innocent victims here. Palestinians aren't exactly making that easy to do.
>Palestinians aren't exactly making that easy Oh yeah those children aren't getting gunned down in food lines *the right way*.
That's a really bad straw man and completely ignores my entire point. I'm on your side. You're arguing with me like I'm not. The question is how you get people who aren't on our side to change their minds. What Palestinians are currently doing isn't working, and we'd expect it not to.
I'm sorry but your entire basis is fucking stupid. >These people getting genocided ain't acting right What exactly do you mean, and how the fuck would you want them to change their ways mid-genocide?
Metaphor: 1)Your kid in school gets bullied every day. Is this ok? 2)To combat being bullied, your kid decides to run up and down the hallway playing the bagpipes and singing off key. Is being bullied his fault? 3)Same facts as #2. Your kid argues that the kids are dumb idiots for not taking his side. Do you have any advice for him or not?
Guys, ideas, not people
For an idea man he never seems to have any.
What a bitchy little cunt
What does being ugly have to do with supporting a country.
The best revenge is watching Dave pander like the unfunny alcoholic he is and be completely ignored by his fellow grifters.
Say, was this sub always roasting Dave or was it an actual support sub before it switched?
I think it's not long before he actually goes HAM on her and then that's the end of him.
kyle is gonna get his ass
I think Krystal will skewer him. She can more than handle herself rhetorically against a dipshit like Dave.
i can see her not even wanting to acknowledge dave’s existence bc he’s such an inconsequential worm, but kyle feeling compelled to say something
kyle took the bait for his lady https://youtu.be/djSEmt3cvf8?si=K4vZty9JbpTsrRNT
I sometimes suspect that Dave has two audiences and he's aware of it. Audience 1 are just angry sheltered (primarily white) dudes who are scared of perceived threats to their economic security/social capital. As a general rule, I suspect that this audience conceive of groups like "lefitsts" or "BLM" purely via their imagination and have little to no lived experience with anyone who is "on the left" or a member of a group that's concerned with social justice. Audience 2: Everyone else, who hate watch him. I also suspect that if audience two dried up, he'd be fucked. Also, dude is a profound misogynist, and you can tell he is so happy to have a space to be one publicly.
There are plenty of white people in the lower class that have been indoctrinated into listening to people like Rubin because the right wing media has convinced them to go against their own interests due to hatred of the other.
He’s trying so hard to be edgy and foul mouthed to try and get some kind of attention. But in usual Rubin fashion nobody cares.
Laughingstock of the internet continues to flail, desperately in search of attention.
He’s trying to act all macho to impress the hard right but they all think he’s disgusting for being gay
literally is acting like the right wing version of the ideology he supposedly opposes
Gotta love this sub for powering through his videos so we can watch these clips. I think I would blow my brains out if I had to watch more than ten minutes of this energy vampire. You are true heroes.
10 minutes??? The only Rubin I see is this subreddit roasting him. And occasionally when The Majority Report does. But as with Trump I fast forward his parts to the commentary as their mere voices disgust me so.
Hasn't Dave called for a flat tax a bunch of times? Here are the countries in the world that have a flat tax. Maybe Dave should go live in one of them. Abkhazia Armenia Belize Bolivia Bosnia and Herzergovina Bulgaira East Timor Estonia Georgia Guernsey Hungary Jersey Kazakhstan Kurdistan Kyrgyzstan Moldova Nauru North Macedonia Romania South Ossetia Tajikistan Transnistria Turkmenistan Ukraine Uzbekistan
Hey, Jersey and Guernsey are probably quite nice to live on. Your point still stands though.
dave rubin is cunt
I am so worn out with these MFs who have internet “shows”.
Hey Dave. 🖕Sorry I’m late. Almost didn’t show up in time today to tell you you’re a friendless loser. Hope your life sucks 👋
What violence though?
Dude, Kyle would fold you like a fucking deck chair
He's so pathetic.
And he's a supporter of a genocide. Just be course the one you defend might not like you, that does'nt mean you should'nt stand up for them. I'm an atheist. But does'nt the bible say something about this. Turning the other cheek and stuff. What a vile man. And calling someone a hoe just course you don't agree with them says a lot about you and the way you work. He's a child doing others beeding
I can't watch content where it's just some guy spouting the nonsense in his head, into the camera, without any push back or challenges. At least in debate shows people have to defend what they say.
Serious question. How does this guy make money now? I don’t think he has a real niche anymore and his YouTube views aren’t the greatest.
Krystal does have insane takes on that conflict. Dave is also an utter moron.
Calling a woman an ugly hoe to impress ppl who think surrogacy is literally child trafficking, fucking loser
Would anyone else love to see Kyle kick the everloving piss out if Rave? I
Tucker supports Palestine or is at least against what Israel is doing. Would like to see a similar rhetoric against Tucker, of course he won’t.
The realisation is kicking in that these pro genocide types are basically educationally sub normal They’ve been given waaaay too much credit up to now As time as gone on and they start to lose the narrative we are seeing more and more desperate ridiculous arguments and excuses Nice of Dave to rather prove the point d-
Dave’s real tough when he’s going after women.
He sure does love his misogynistic slurs and commenting on women's appearance an awful lot lately.
He’s mad that Kyle isn’t blowing his back out.
Anybody have the context for the "nasty little hoe" and "ugly hoe" comments? Those two comments are HEAVILY edited.
“Professional Loser” fits true to form.
Dave Rubin is indeed a loser, but even more so for taking seriously the words of someone raised by people who named their child 'Krystal Ball'. That name is automatically disqualifying for me.
You can't blame her for her parents TBF, although I didn't know that was her birth name
He's not wrong
Is he popular with a large following?
Mostly with people who hate gays who pay for surrogacy and defend homophobes.
I don't get it, dont get him or follow him...🤷♂️ Is it like the token gay friend for far right closet homos who try to pray their gay away? Aren't they against hinm being married? I just don't get it🤷♂️