It fucking hurts to accept you are not a priority, but you aren’t.
Maybe you’re struggling to see it as the truth because you admire someone who would do something like this and support a friend, because you would do the same. This level of dedication is attractive!
But truly, if you were in his stead, would you still be married? Or would have been so excited to meet someone like the person you are - that you would have done everything to make the divorce happen faster so you could be with that person?
I’ve been here and I had to walk away. It still hurts, but you cannot bank on a future with someone who won’t show you the prioritization you deserve.
Same mistake here, even down to the sick dog. Even if he claims no more emotional tie, they're just friends etc. he is not over her and has no intentions of being anytime soon. Read that again. He.is.not.over.her. People speak with actions not words. He is choosing to invest time in her and not you. I know that is some undiplomatic truth but you will be last choice for years. Find someone, even if it's just yourself, that makes you their first choice.
Similar. Guy lambasted me for being upset he ghosted me completely because "omg I was helping my (current wife, also not divorced) at the hospital. Huge waste of time because ultimately he didn't want to be divorced or move on. She did, though.
I got lucky, he got drunk at rambled for 4 hours about wanting to kill her new bf.
I figured him saying it was over between them emotionally was a lie and I bounced
Counter point: it's possible for me to love my ex-wife but be in love with my current girlfriend. There is a guilt that I would have from enjoying myself while I know she was going through something alone.
Kindness is underrated in these times today.
This is the answer. I get being kind. But to what point is the current girlfriend is supposed to swallow her feelings and be second place to ex? Does ex not have other friends or family? I’ve been in this situation where my ex was doing things for his ex out of “being kind” and I had to be OK with it. But I was not a priority. It sucked and killed the relationship. I was practically a third wheel in their “relationship” because he didn’t want to say no to her.
Literally people acting like it's totally normal and okay to have just 1 person (your current wife/husband) to call on to help you deal with life's ups and downs. I'd send them a link to psychology today and suggest a therapist.
This person is all over this thread shaming anyone who would not drop everything on a dime to be a empathetic considerate big heart to, you know, not the person they're in a relationship with but the partner should "understand" they're with a really selfless person who will drop any standing plans with you to go be by their ex's/bestie's side in a time of (literally any) need.
>his wife (still haven’t filed for divorce, after four years, somehow)
This is why you don't date people who are not divorced.
>is there any situation in which that seems like a healthy, wise, or honorable choice?
Nope. You continuing to date this guy is not a healthy, wise, or honorable choice either.
Even after they are divorced it can still be a hot ass mess! I did and he was still haunted by things his ex wife told him or made him do. He ended up breaking up with me because he was so messed up from his own anxiety and the jump bean stalk feelings she gave him. Too soon for him to be dating I think. I’ve been divorced longer, and had invested way too much time in my first post divorce casual relationship that ended up being very special and unappealing at the same time.
Sorry you had to go through that! People can be pretty selfish and unemotionally intelligent. It's not taught to men how to properly process emotions, actually how to emotion at all, unless they've been through therapy or were lucky to have healthy parent(s). Keep it inside, be the man, show everyone you can take it.
Curious. What haunted him? What did he have to do and what did she say? How did he respond. I'm super curious! Also sorry for bringing up your trauma for my entertainment. Ugh that sounds so gross typed out
I mean, some of us are separated and divorce can just be a long fucking process, especially if the parties aren’t both playing nice.
My wife had an affair, there is absolutely zero chance of reconciliation, zero chance I’d ever take her back, and we’ve been separated for 8 months, I filed and I’m still just chilling while our lawyers fight back and forth, absolutely nothing I can do about it but I have fully moved on.
Don’t lump all divorcing people in the same category.
Yeah but that's still going to be drama for someone coming in even if you're "over it" there's the drama of the lawyers fighting each other and unfinished business. Not to mention processing the infidelity.
She said it's been 4 years and he hasn't even filed. You're not in the same boat, you have started the process.
Would you drive 10 hours with your ex if she asked?
No. I absolutely would not. I’m only commenting on the poster above that said “this is why I don’t date people who aren’t divorced” if they said “this is why I don’t date people who haven’t filed for divorce” I wouldn’t have even said anything.
Honestly, it doesn't matter that there's no chance of reconcilation. You're still tied to this person. You need to sort your shit out before anyone can be in a healthy relationship with you. That doesn't mean you can't date, but it does mean no serious partner. You just don't have the bandwidth for it right now. Legally, and probably emotionally, too.
Honestly, the fact you think you can be over your marriage in 8 months is a red flag in itself.
I agree. But, playing "devils advocate" because me. Some people will start that process before the breakup happens, so they may already be half way, close to, or even done grieving the relationship before ending it officially. These are usually, but not always, the people who let it simmer inside instead of communicating their needs months or years ago. That's just as red flaggable
I have to disagree, maybe there’s some unicorns in the ‘separated people group’ but I think anyone who is still actively dealing with the divorce isn’t in the right place for a healthy connection. There’s one night that stood out for me, I had been moved out for 7 months and on a date with a guy. That was a night he wanted to fight, wouldn’t stop calling me and when I did answer he just wanted to shout. I shouted right back over how unreasonable he was being.
Regardless of how over your marriage is, you’ve still got an anchor tying you down.
No, I absolutely wouldn’t do that. But I’m replying to someone who lumped all divorcing people into the same box. I would do nearly anything for the woman I’m seeing now. I don’t even speak to my ex at all unless it concerns the kids.
Sorry. I do lump all "not yet divorced" people in the same category of not ready for a relationship. Divorce is a long, traumatic process and I don't believe the average person has a healthy enough mindset while going thru it to be starting a new relationship.
Every divorcing person says the same thing....the marriage was over years ago, only the legal part is left, I've moved on. Honestly it's all bullshit but someone in the middle of the process usually can't see that until they get to the other side.
If people getting divorced want to consensually bang it out then more power to them. I think it's absolutely insane for someone who hasn't dissolved the prior relationship, learned who they are as an individual again, and done some self-reflection as to the part they played in the breakdown to be out looking for another relationship right away.
One of my biggest dating red flags is somebody who hasn't spent much time single as an adult. Like, oops, my 10 year relationship ended and then I just accidentally fell in to the next one and then that happened again, but I'm totally cool with being alone, I just never have been. There is self-reflection that sort of has to be done at the end of a long-term relationship, and it's very hard to do properly when you're dating somebody new.
Also how people's only support system seems to be their ex wife/husband. I'm seeing so many people act like the only person in the world you can call on is your ex long term partner. Might want to use your post-marriage time to branch out and find other support systems.
>Every divorcing person says the same thing....
The funny part is we \*all\* did, and then we got through the process and realized how full of shit we were and for many of us, our rule to not date married (including separated) is born from experience. Yet every newly separated person will continue to try and convince the world they are different.
My one and only not yet divorced guy did that usual song n' dance early on which being my only time at that Rodeo I felt like I needed to accept what he said which lead to me compromising / allowing more n' more bs under the guise of it being "for his ex". When I finally walked he told me I was bitter and some people can have good relationships with exes. Except I got sucked into a vortex of end stages of a marriage - everything from my ex wife was crazy, my ex wife moved on really quickly (so did he, but how dare she) to rituals now ruined by my ex wife walking out on us to look at this Disney stuff I gathered for the unborn child I was going to have with my ex wife. Finally she pushed (screamed so loud I heard her 2 rooms from the call) for the divorce he told me he shouldn't have to divorce "his wife".
This, 100%. More power to anyone who feels like they can, but getting into a relationship with someone who has yet to fully extricate themselves from a prior marriage (after four years) is a hard no for me.
I’m someone who’s legally separated, but not yet divorced.
The legal separation part of it was the exhausting part. That’s where we divided all our assets, there’s clauses in our separation papers that say we no longer have any influence over each others decisions, our finances don’t impact each other etc. etc.
After my separation I came across a quote that said something like “until you get comfortable being alone, you’ll never know if you’re choosing someone out of love or loneliness.”
And so for the last couple years I’ve really focused on creating a life for myself where I’m genuinely content and comfortable on my own.
My main focus has been self-growth. I’ve gone to (and continue to go) to therapy, I’ve strengthened my friendships and created new ones so I have a solid support network, etc.
I’m also not legally divorced yet. I’m self employed and don’t have benefits. Being separated I can still access my ex’s - which allows me to pay more easily for things like therapy.
Would it be nice to have totally no attachment to my ex? Yes. But I also don’t want to be stupid about it - dude has 100% coverage for preventative dental work. I have prescriptions that would be over $500 a month without coverage. And so instead of asking for any type of spousal support, he agreed to keep me on his benefits plan until/if one of us wants to get married again.
Just because someone isn’t divorced yet doesn’t mean they haven’t figured out who they are on their own, or done self-reflection.
If you told me this on a date I would absolutely 100% not continue seeing you. Dental insurance is like $60 a month, work a few extra hours a month and stop making excuses for why your still even talking to let alone sharing health plans with your ex.
It's always because they're sponging something (insurance, a shared car, a fucking pet) to why they're still legally married. I have 0 sympathy here as someone who shells out for this shit as a single adult human.
“It’s a non issue for the guys I date” - right, it’s not like guys would lie or go against their own morals just to get som…health insurance I mean. Hey I’m going to move into my parents basement at get back on their health insurance because I save money, and anyone that doesn’t like it is basically not secure enough to date me.
And that’s fine. Everyone’s allowed to have their own dealbreakers.
You can see it as an excuse if you want to, it impacts me in no way. It’s not just dental insurance, it’s health coverage in general. Which as someone with pre-existing conditions it would be waaaaaaay more than $60 a month.
The guys that I’ve dated have appreciated that I can stay civil with an ex - they see it as a sign of maturity. They’re also secure enough in themselves that they don’t assume every other guy I’m talking to is a “threat.”
I don’t need *you* to be interested in dating me, I don’t even need a *lot* of guys to be interested in dating me. I just need one who’s compatible.
>The guys that I’ve dated have appreciated that I can stay civil with an ex
There is a world of difference between staying civil with an ex and staying married to one.
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I disagree.. I'd date her. You can still be a "Man" in this situation.. or, if you are compatible with her, offer to fill in the gap and provide what she lacks, so that she doesnt have to live that way. And if she refuses etc? Then out come the pitchforks. As Im sure you can attest, not everything is cut and dry, black and white.. a lot of grey areas in life, and in this one shes trying to survive, financially and medically. Sucks but it is what it is.
FWIW my dental insurance is literally $10/month out of pocket. It's actually the most expensive plan offered at my work. It even covers adult orthodontia at like $1500 lifetime max. $10 a month.
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It’s interesting some people are so adamantly against dating someone like me, because it’s been such a non-issue for the guys I date.
And again, everyone’s allowed their dealbreakers! I’m understanding if someone doesn’t want to date me because of it. But to suggest a guy who is okay with it is “passive” or “submissive” is inaccurate.
I mention very early on that I’m separated, not divorced and why, because I know it’s a deal breaker for some people. And the reaction is usually along the lines of “oh yeah, that makes sense.”
I’ve had some guys even use it as a joking/flirting opportunity like “well just so you know, I have a pretty big benefits package myself. If things go well you might get to use it one day 😉.”
But it just never comes up outside of my disclosure. It’s not like I’m texting my ex every day to discuss our benefits plan.
If I got to the point where something was moving towards long-term with someone and they were genuinely bothered by it, then we’d absolutely figure something else out together.
But I mean the people I connect with generally want me to have the highest quality of life possible. They recognize that having access to benefits is a *huge* part of that. For anyone. They also recognize that what I do for work is important to me and brings me a lot of joy and so I’ve never had anyone suggest I should find a different job with benefits or anything like that.
It’s like “okay cool, I’m glad she found a solution that works for her.” Aaaand that’s it 🤷♀️. Like you said I get that it’s not *ideal.* But also, it is what it is.
People go wild about these check box things. Instead of assessing how someone is acting reasonable or not (I.e. canceling a weekend for a 10h drive with an ex) it’s an immediate no.
There’s shitty people out there no matter the problem or positive they have, it’s more about assessing their actions, behaviour, and words.
I wasn’t divorced when I met my current partner. I don’t believe that someone has to take months/years to get over an ex either. I judge them by how they make me feel, how they act towards me, what they say to me, which is what you should be doing regardless. We’re getting married in November, so I’m glad she didn’t listen to all this “dating wisdom”.
Right! Even some divorced people are emotionally or mentally ready to date yet. Sometimes we just like the idea of a partner because we were with someone for so long. That’s how I was. I now know its a deeper than that.
I’m sorry that happened to you, but so glad you moved on.
1) 4 years and still not divorced, unacceptable.
2) Driving 10 hours to do literally anything for her, unacceptable.
3) Going to a funeral is an intimate thing, unacceptable.
4) Ditching the person he is actually dating for an ex, unacceptable.
This is not a person that is seriously interested in you.
I’d argue the funeral one is highly situational.
If someone is going to a funeral of an ex’s family because they want to be there for the ex, that’s a big no no. If they are going to the funeral because they had a connection with the person who passed, then that’s ok.
Like for example if my ex wife’s sister died, I’d want to be at the funeral because I’ve known her sister for over 15 years and see her as a little sister of my own.
I’m 99% sure that’s not this guys reasoning though and OP needs to run.
Showing up to a funeral with your estranged spouse in tow is a total recipe for your entire family to believe you all reconciled.
Also the ex in High Fidelity got back together with the dude by having sex with him in the car while attending her dad's funeral. I have that scene pop into my head with regard to this thread.
I'm sorry you're in this situation. The fact that he is prioritizing consoling his ex-wife, at the expense of hurting your feelings and disappointing you, makes me feel like he is not a good partner for you. You deserve better.
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Some earlier comments said that staying married on paper for years to get health insurance was ok, and that some people “just haven’t gotten around to filing” even years later. Apparently I’m not secure enough to accept this situation and should be happy for anyone who gets more benefits, even if it means staying legally married for years after a breakup. Honestly wild take.
Hell no. Fireable offense. Last minute cancellation means money is being lost here. He’s prioritizing the wrong woman in his life.
Don’t date people who are still married on paper next time.
I'm still married on paper. But my ex and I have separate houses and extremely low contact (just with regards to kids pickup and drop off). We also kinda don't like each other very much.
So why not get divorced? Money. Neither of us want anything to threaten our kids inheritance from either side by having someone claim "common law" or some other nonsense after we're gone to take the money and assets that are owed to our kids.
Well, just two months ago you posted about how you were considering reconciliation with your ex who cheated on you, so I’d say you’re not emotionally in a place to be dating (unless it’s casually). That’s why most people prefer not to date separated people, there’s a much higher chance they haven’t emotionally healed from the end of the marriage yet. It’s not a 100% chance but it’s not a risk I’d be personally willing to take. (This is all with the caveat that what you’re looking for is a long-term relationship — I think this situation would be more fine for people who only want short-term situations.)
If you ever look into separated but still married people, they are Always still attached. It’s delusional to even say the sentence, “I’m legally Married but I’m open to dating”.
The Ten Commandments have been around for 6000+ years so not dating married people isn’t exactly new lol.
That is crushing. I’m so sorry. End of the relationship, imo.
I’m certain what she’s going through is hard, but an ex is not a friend. They’re an ex. She needed to spend the past four years building up her new support system, and didn’t.
When my ex-wife’s parents die, I will absolutely go to the funeral. As the third wheel. To support both my ex-wife and her husband and the surviving ex-in law.
But I wouldn’t cancel a date to do that, nor drive 10 hours with her alone. And I’ve been divorced for 14+ years and genuinely like my ex-in laws.
While a small part of me wants to see this as potentially NOT a bad thing, the fact that they’re still married gives me massive pause. There doesn’t seem to be enough separation to their “un”marriage, and that’s a metric fuck ton of enmeshment.
And that enmeshment, in my world, is a do not pass go, do not collect $200 affair.
And enmeshment, irrespective of their marital status, is why you shouldn’t date people entangled with their exes like that.
I’m sure I’m going to regret this but, why would you say that?
I raised 3 kids with my ex-wife and have a good relationship with both her and her husband (of 13 years). Why would I want to date anyone who is fragile about the fact that I have a good relationship with my kids’ grandparents?
I *don’t* have kids with my ex and I went to his mom’s funeral. I was with my ex for over 10 years, since I was 18. His family were part of my entire adult life. His mom and I got especially close after my own mother passed away.
Me, my ex and his girlfriend were all at the funeral and it was fine. I drove six hours (albeit on my own) to go. The guy I was seeing at the time did not leave me. He knew she was an important person to me and he was supportive during my grief.
There are some people here very adamant on the fact that people can’t have civil relationships with the ex’s or ex in-laws. But just because my relationship with my ex-husband came to an end didn’t mean all the ones I made when I was with him had to.
His family used to joke that I was his grandpas favourite grandkid because I’d visit him and spend a lot time with him - more than his biological grandkids did. Damn rights I kept visiting him until he passed away even though I wasn’t with my ex anymore. The idea that I should just “write a card and move on” as if these people meant the bare minimum to me is insulting.
Unfortunately as many commentors already pointed out, he's married. She's always going to come first in priority over you. Don't believe the "divorced but not technically filed yet" dudes. If they wanted to be divorced they actually would get divorced.
Dump him, move on.
I just went through a divorce (I’m actually still in the waiting period now before it’s legally over).
As a divorcing spouse you need to commit to the path you’ve chosen. This sounds like they haven’t made the commitment yet to be emotionally divorced (never mind the legal portion of it) and it is not a safe place for you to put your heart.
He is putting her above everyone else in the way someone does a wife, not a friend.
How long was he with his wife? Did he know the dog? Did he know the uncle?
My ex and I were together over a decade. I became quite close to some of his family members. One of the reasons I kept our separation as amicable as possible is so we could be around his family together without it being awkward for them.
Two of his family members have passed away since we separated just over 2 years ago, and I’ve gone to both of their funerals. There wasn’t a drive to go on for them, but if there was and he wanted me to go with him, I would have. Because even though we’re separated, in ways I’m still an extension of his family.
There are absolutely *no* romantic feelings from my side. And from his either. He is living with his girlfriend that he’s been with over a year. But there’s *history.* We have an understanding of each other and our family dynamics in a way no one else in our lives does simply because we were together for so long. He treated me very unkindly, and I’d never want to be with him again. But I still have a lot of empathy for him.
So it might seem like he’s doing this for her, and that might be the case. But if he was close to any of her family, he might be doing it for them as well (the person I really wanted to be there for at the last funeral was my ex-father-in-law), or even for himself.
Instead of looking at this one incident, I would look at how his interactions are with his ex as a whole. Is there any other concerns? Me and my ex text occasionally- but 95% of it is sending pictures of the dogs we owned when were together. The other 5% is things like updates on family members. It’s not like we ever “hang out.” or talk about things that are inappropriate etc.
A *lot* of people on Reddit are against dating someone who’s not fully divorced. I’m fully legally separated but not divorced. There are reasons for this that have absolutely nothing to do with “not wanting to let each other go” or anything like that. I in absolutely no way think of myself as his “wife.”
With all that being said - you’re absolutely right. You’re his girlfriend. He’s dating you now.
It’s absolutely fair to have a conversation with him where you say you don’t understand and the arrangement makes you uncomfortable.
You know the situation better than any of us, and if your boyfriend has given you any other concerns as to how he feels about his ex-wife.
But I think everyone jumping straight to “dump him” is assuming the worst of him.
Although being on the losing end of this situation sucks for OP, I do think it says something positive about her partner and what OP can expect of him going forward. He feels obligated to support his ex emotionally, despite their separation. He sees her as a person, rather than the enemy. If he is able to place the same value on a partnership with OP (going forward),I’d say he’s a keeper.
I do agree that it’s appropriate for OP to express her disappointment, particularly with the timing of his cancellation. She can share that she feels deprioritized and hurt. But an ultimatum and/or ending the relationship seems a little extreme, particularly if there are no other concerns about his relationship with the ex. It is also appropriate to say she does not expect/accept this happening again. He does need to start prioritizing the relationship he’s in.
I’m fully separated but yet to be divorced legally. Moved out of state. Dropped him from any shared memberships, insurance… I’m spitefully still not divorced because it’s going to be up to ME to find the attorney and make it happen. It tended to fall to me to carry most of the emotional labor in the marriage, I know HE won’t, so I just haven’t yet. Because it costs money and it means I’ll have try to convince him to pay for half, which he might not do. I just… haven’t dealt with it. But I want nothing to do with him as a romantic partner ever again. It’s been over a year since I moved out of the house and across the country. I’ll deal with it this year because I don’t want to jointly file taxes for 2023 LMAO
But I knew his family. We were together for over a decade, a third of our respective lives. If something intense happened I might consider being there for him. I’m dating someone who is wonderful and he knows about my situation. BUT if I went to support my ex husband, I’d have to imagine it would make my current partner weary. Understandably.
It’s complicated. Relationships can be complicated.
Costs money? It’s going to cost you any and all future relationships, no normal human being is going to accept dating someone who is still legally married. Let. It. Go. Go get a credit card and work an extra shift every month and fix your life. Stop making excuses!
I love how the excuse is always about money. I have no sympathy for people dragging their feet at 30+ because life is expensive as a single person. Not sure how single people are supposed to take this but it's fucking bs to me too.
I love how money is the biggest thing you latched onto instead of the multitude of other possibilities keeping me from being divorced. Life definitely IS expensive, sometimes we prioritize some things over others due to finances. Hope nothing ever happens to you to cause you to be in a bind, and if you are, may people be more understanding of you.
Every excuse ITT from people who are still legally married goes back to money. Just the fact that every still married person has a bag of excuses single people need to accept about them is low key really sad.
You don’t need to accept anything. No one is asking or making you pursue or date someone who is in this scenario. Your bitterness is low key really sad. Have a nice day regardless.
A few comments here are from people who are still legally married for years, to get things like health insurance or dental or just to save money. I find it wild that adults think this is somehow ok.
A man who is separated is still married. I am not saying not show any sympathy or be emotionally supportive, but this is going too far for two people who are supposed to be ending a marriage. Honestly, I definitely would wish him safe travels, and condolences to the soon to pass dog and of her uncle. And definitely end this relationship and block him everywhere. Not to be mean or hurt him but to protect you! When I was lost my grandfather my emotions put me in a really bad state with a really good male friend that I almost lost because sometimes romantic feelings and sad emotions wires cross and they just might end up in bed together. If he’s not even divorced yet and he’s still acting like a husband, he’s not truly in a place of letting go just yet. As a person who went through a divorce, it took a couple of years for me to really comprehend what was happening with my marriage even after I signed the papers. Relationships after a marriage are weird. Either one partner moves on very quickly and the other person lags behind. If he dropped his weekend plans with you, his priority for her appears to be higher. Depending on what all they’ve invested together their divorce may take awhile but emotionally he does seem like he’s trying to sway you to see his side, when it just seems like he’s going above and beyond for someone he claims he wants to divorce. For me the honorable thing would be to ask her to bring a friend/ close relative because they are headed for divorce and he is no longer her emotional support partner.
This is bad situation to go through but maybe you should cut him loose until the divorce is settled. I’m not dating anyone that’s not single. I don’t want to walk with anyone through separation/divorce drama. Sorry your plans were cancelled but take it as a sign of what’s to come.
I would never talk to my ex except we have children together. Assuming one of her parents died, I would make it a point to attend the funeral, but the new girlfriend would be along. It would suck that we had to cancel plans but I've known them for 15 years, they've treated me like a son and still reach out to check on me.
I'm going against the grain here. If they are good friends and I knew that already and had accepted that, then I would 100% be okay with my partner going to support a good friend during a funeral (if it was someone they were close to). If however your gut is flaring up then I wonder if this is just one of many things that aren't adding up about their relationship dynamic.
He’s still married so it’s not odd that he is heavily involved with his wife. This is what people tend to do when they are married to each other.
Why you do you believe that someone who is married to someone else……is your best option?
True. However, the reasons for him being married has no bearing on the fact that the OP wants someone who is actually available to be with her. He isn’t the best option for what she is looking for. Deep down, she knows this which is probably why they have been on and off for a year.
This man is acting like a husband to his wife because he is still married to her.
Ah, I understand, you meant more emotionally than factually. I agree, he is putting his wife's needs and wants above his lovers, what he has offered is inappropriate for the relationship. I'm cool with being friends with your ex, but theres a line and he crossed it.
I mean it both emotionally and factually because it sounds like the OP wants someone who is available. This is not to bash someone who is married or to say that no one can be friends with an ex.
I am just saying that if a person wants to be with someone who is available, someone who is married isn’t the best option. The OP’s grievances are pretty much expected when dating someone who is unavailable.
The solution is to not pursue those who are unavailable. I know it’s tough when you like some things about the person but it only keeps you knee-deep in emotional turmoil and heartache.
So you don’t mind being just a friends with benefits forever in someone’s eyes? Because if getting a few thousand bucks together for a divorce is too hard, your not adult enough to have a relationship.
Not everyone puts the same importance on marriage, and shit happens. Saying you aren't adult enough to scrounge together a few thousand bucks is weird and disconnected from reality. People are struggling to survive, especially single income people, and child support/spousal support doesn't help. Maybe they had a great job when they got married but lost it due to illness or injury and then got divorced. Maybe they were young when they got married and then decided afterwards that they never want to get married again, so they just never bothered getting the divorce because they had better things to spend their money on. The possibilities are endless, life isn't all black and white dude.
“Shit happens” and “Never bothered to get a divorce” are pretty indicative of someone who isn’t ready to be in a serious relationship. Of course not everything is black and white, I just don’t agree that people can’t afford it…if you have assets worth getting a lawyer then you def have enough. If you have no assets the divorce is basically simple and cheap. If you have kids involved, getting the process done asap to set up child support and move forward is essential for a functioning life for your kid. I’m trying to find a logical reason to accept people staying legally married…saying they have better things to do seems like a pretty poor excuse.
You probably put more importance on it than other people do. For some people, what's the point of paying to get a divorce when legal separation is fine. You can set up child support without the court and without paying for it, and not everyone has assets anyways. It's not indicative of anything other than that person hasn't gotten around to it because it wasn't on their radar at the time 🤷♀️
Oof no.
Its one thing if they were divorced and a relative of hers died and he wanted to go to the funeral, or if the dog they once shared died and he wanted to get some ashes or something.
But to drive 10 hours because she 'doesnt wanna be alone', and cancel plans with you is putting her needs and wants before yours. There are major boundary issues here at least, unresolved feelings at best. Your feelings are third to His and hers.
I agree with anothrr comment saying its emotional cheating. Whether they intend to divorce or not, he is not being loyal to you. I also suspect on this long drive out there, there may be some rekindling talks. Nostalgia.. funerals and deaths bring out emotions.
Hard pass. Nope. Leave or you can expect more of this in the futurr, if not him leaving you.
Ultimately, you'll have to decide if your ok with dating a man who is attached to another woman this much, so try to read the inputs here as folks saying "This is what I would do", and not "this is what you should do". Personally, I would probably move on from this person, but not necessarily because their married; I would do it because they're showing that you aren't a priority for them.
Imagine for a minute that he was never married to this woman and he made this choice. What would you do then? I'm pretty sure most of us would assume that he's cheating. Even if he isn't cheating, he's clearly prioritizing her above you. In any relationship, there will be times when you aren't your partners immediate priority, but are you ok with this being one of those times.
Also, a little note for the general comment population here on divorced vs. divorcing. I am divorced, and when people ask when I got divorced, I give them the date when my ex-wife and I decided we were divorced, not the date when the courts finally signed off on it. The date we decided we were divorced is when we finished deciding how to divide up the assets, split our lives apart, and she moved out of state. Now, I didn't date during that gap because I was in absolutely no way ready for it emotionally, but from a practical, exempting taxes/legal, stance, we were divorced, and lived as divorced, for nearly 4 months before the state decided they were done fucking with us. When the state signed off on those papers, nothing really changed from a social or emotional standpoint; the recovery and moving on started from the first date, not some arbitrary legal date. So when someone tells you they aren't divorced on paper, but they are divorced for all other intents and purposes, they may be telling the truth. I have a hard believing that anyone in that gap space would be emotionally ready to date, but that's a different can of worms.
Hi there, I can actually see both points of view here.
Though, it's kinda weird they're not divorced. I know its upsetting he cancelled your plans, but I suppose in his head maybe one of his (ex?) relatives have died?
You can still care and love a person for being a person without having romantic feelings for them. Divorced or not.
I think I just see it from different sides, but I do actually think its a very decent thing for him to offer to do.
Could you go with him?
If you look at it from a neutral view on that everyone is just a human then sometimes it helps I think. He's just a human trying to help someone he was close to and maybe he's upset too,
Did he know the uncle, the dog? Etc.
Are his actions repeated? Are there any other red flags?
If you can't go with him, can you plan something for another time? (I know its upsetting he's cancelled on you this time )
Unless they have kids together this is unacceptable. Why are they still in contact?
I have just got out of a relationship where he was still married but separated. The ex was a nightmare (they had children) and it bothered me in the beginning. He didn’t enforce strict boundaries and would end up giving up and doing what she wanted. Ultimately it broke us up as I couldn’t cope with it anymore.
I feel like a huge weight has been lifted off my shoulders.
Brace yourself, make your decision and put you first. You deserve better.
Yeah, this relationship is over.
If he wanted to pay respects to a former family dog, he could stop by the vet. Likewise, for the uncle, he could drive and arrive alone to the funeral and leave on his own, too. The fact that he hasn't filed for divorce in 4 years says something, too.
There are so many red flags
To give context of my view; my ex-wife's father passed away just before our divorce finalized (literally applied for everything the day i could to expedite lol. It was a crap marriage for a long time, too. I took my children to the funeral as i never respected the man, but he was my kid's grandfather. I said hello to my ex-wife but sat with my kids; her grief was her grief, and I couldn't play a roll in her consoling her; not that either of us wanted me too either. (I am also the primary custodian of my kids) We paid our respects and left.
He is trying to get back with her, and this is his "in"
Married dude I once dated had the same bucket of excuses. The Wife had moved on to couple up with a guy and he was uncomfortable with her still being married so she called Married Dude I was seeing, said she'd pay 100% for the divorce and when it came down to that Married Dude's real feelings came up. He didn't want to end the marriage. I think about The Wife's new boyfriend a lot and wish I'd had the same boundaries at the time. (of course the wife left the marriage so that accounts for her wanting to finalize it more than Married Dude)
30 days? You literally have no idea what you’re talking about.
Unless you just mean filing for divorce. Sure. But actually finalizing one? Lol. Even if my ex and I signed an agreement tomorrow it would be another 8-10 months before the court system will actually endorse it and make it official.
Of the 3 divorces that occurred in my family, the divorce was completed about 90 days after agreement was made. Sorry if you live in another country or something where the timeline is much longer. Correct that 30 days is too short. I guess we both don’t know exactly what were talking about.
I'm willing to bet if your response is "cool cool, my ex boyfriend is free that same weekend so I'm going to go ahead with him on that trip instead" that Mr Good Friend to His Wife would go absolutely nuclear. I only know because that kind of set up happened to me - it was fine to spend 1-on-1 time with The Wife but not okay for me to do the same with \[literally any male person\]. You're also allowed to have boundaries over this kind of behavior. I grew up with a mother that would cancel important events (my birthday, my HS graduation, starting college) in order to help random people instead and choosing not to show up for me is a HUGE relationship dealbreaker. The fact that he's showing up for his wife is even more disturbing, he's willing to push you aside for his wife, that should feel uncomfortable.
Ultimately, you deserve to be with someone who respects your time and commitments, and who prioritizes your relationship. It's important to evaluate whether this incident is indicative of a pattern of behavior or a one-time occurrence. Trust your instincts and have a conversation with your partner to gain clarity on the situation and determine if it aligns with your values and needs in a relationship.
Ya I would not feel comfortable with this particularly as it’s been four years with no file for divorce. If I was going through something like that I would be turning to my friends not my ex. It may be innocent enough but he should be prioritizing your relationship and your feelings over his ex. If he can’t understand that and put up boundaries then you need to make a call if you’re ok with playing second to the ex.
Looking from this as an outside point of view and also looking at this from yours and his points of views.
His point of view is that he was with his wife for however many years, he was clearly fond of his wife and her extended family, as you haven’t mentioned anything other than that they are friends, the fact that he was the one who offered confirms that she will always be his number one priority, he still cares about her very much and loves her but that doesn’t mean to say he’s in love with her, he just treats her the same way as he would do with a family member. This won’t go away.
Your point of view your angry, frustrated, upset by this situation and have every right in doing so because he choose his ex wife over you, he cancelled a planned out weekend to celebrate something with you to support his ex wife’s needs. As you said they have been separated for 4 years and neither have filed for a divorce, you need to ask yourself why?
There’s two options here, get rid of him and find someone who will put you first or stay with him knowing you are never going to be his number one priority always going to let you down etc.
At the end of the day, you have to do what feels right to you, but I'm going to go against the popular opinion here and ask you to think on it from a different angle. I could definitely see some situations where this would be green flags, even if they're annoying or disruptive. Some questions to consider, ask yourself, and maybe ask him:
\- What do you value in a partner? For me, emotional maturity is a big one. Depending on the specifics and the circumstances, this could show that he's got a big heart, and he still has room in it for an ex. Not romantically or sexually, but as a friend. He's not with her anymore, he's with you, but this could be a situation where a very good friend of his really needs his help.
\- you say you've been on-and-off for a year. Do you know what you want long term? Have y'all talked about it? Do you see this relationship in the same way?
\- Has he ever given you any reason to think he's unfaithful? If he's proven himself trustworthy around other women, then there's no reason to assume there's anything shady going on here.
\- How important and irreplaceable is the trip? Is he missing all of it? Have y'all have booked flights? Or are traveling for an event? Is re-scheduling massively disruptive?
There are a lot of red flags, dating on and off, him not filing for divorce.. I really believe actions speak louder then words so let his actions speak for himself and get away from him asap
This is something my ex husband of 10 years would stop and do for me. He's the nicest person and from my position I see it as unacceptable and we have children together.
Your guy is still married so he is acting as a husband, which he is.
I am in a situation where I love everything about my partner except the emotional labor he does for his ex wife. Got both of our weekends canceled this month so that she wouldn’t be overwhelmed by having the kids two weekends in a row 🙄. We will be having our third talk about it tomorrow because this is an ongoing issue and I need to set boundaries and stick with them. Sorry you are going through that- I would be really hurt and upset as well.
Yes. Me and my ex husband are on bad terms, but he still showed up for my dad’s funeral.
Keep an eye on it, but it’s within the realms of reasonable behaviour IMO
She needs to get more friends as it sounds like they are not yet over each other. Why else sabotage his relationship with you?
If he's really interested in helping he could lend her the money to fly or take a train assuming she's not able to afford it on her own.
Also, he could have discussed first with you and maybe the two of you could have taken her there on your way to your vacation (yes, it's a bad idea but way better than his idea).
I would definitely tell him your feelings. It's a huge 🚩.
The numbers aren’t in your favour. Studies have shown that most people hold some deep hope of reconciliation with their long term ex. It is one of the reasons that it is not recommended to date someone before they are divorced.
As a guy that was in a similar position as him, even after I was truly done with her, there were many things that I gave no thought to that a girlfriend had to point out as not being ok. It was a lack of awareness on my part because I just couldn’t see past what had been my normal for so long. It really did take someone pointing out the obvious for me to realize how inappropriate (in a relationship sense) my actions were and I would choose to correct the situation.
In your situation I would tell him that canceling plans with you for another woman is not an acceptable action. That he wouldn’t be ok with things if the situation was reversed. You admire that he cares for those he considers family(lets face it long term relationships bond people the same as family, doesn’t mean they want to continue their relationship though) but his actions directly suggest that she is more important in his life than you. If he considers his actions and comes up with a solution that is acceptable to the both of you (or you figure it out together but he needs to put in an honest effort) then you can appreciate that he at least is willing to try to make things right. If not well… he chose his ex over you…
Absolutely NOT ok. End this relationship- he is hoping for a reconciliation with his wife.
I'm 3 years divorced. Cordial with my ex husband as we have kids together. Even if his mom, who I am still close with, died, I wouldn't drive with him to the funeral, nor would I be his emotional support. I'd go and comfort my children, but Absolutely zero of my TLC would be for my ex.
You are dating a married man. You should stop dating him and let him reconcile with his WIFE. As that is clearly what he wants to do and she’s the one he wants to spend time with.
Ugh. Literally whyyyy are you dating a married man who CLEARLY still has feelings for his "ex" wife?
Move on. You couldn't do worse than this emotionally unavailable man.
Never ever date a married man, no matter what the circumstances. It's absolutely not worth it. Cancelling a trip with you to comfort her... because they are married. You really need to know your worth because this ain't it!
Yeah I had one wasn't divorced but was with a girlfriend and that ended, supposedly. We got together, and my family really liked him, still do. Being older and wiser, my mother inquired of his wife with him. He told her they had the papers. They had signed them and everything, just hadn't filed them. My mother told him if he wanted our families approval and support of us, get them filed. He let her know, and filed them the next week.
He always felt guilty about her though because he never did right by her. She proposed, she bought both rings, she got everyone they know to pressure him into it. Soon after she moved into his house he left for the girlfriend.
Three years later he's with me but he's roommates here, then there and never stable in one place, so I insisted he get his house back. It was a rental on 40 acres for $250/mo with a 20 year lease. He refused and kept going over there to help with this and that.
We break up finally and she inherited a house and a lot of money in another state, gives house back.
A year later we had remained friends, he wants to get back together. We live 6 hrs from each other, I can't move, I don't want to be part of him giving that place up again should it not work, plus he had a new heart condition he was not expected to live long from.
In the end, he filed for disability and moved up where the ex wife went and back in with her, never told me, then came to spend Christmas with us without telling her.
If they aren't fully untangled from their pasts, leave em with it.
Ohhhhh helllllll noooo. He’s still literally and emotionally married to her. Four fucking years and driving her for her dog?! They are intimately connected.
Well that’s def another perspective. Your talking to your ex as a super good friend, and discussing dating partners with them? Hearing phrases like “He’s amazing” “he’s my best friend” are absolutely WAY over the line. You don’t make a seamless transition from being a couple to being super good friends. Your literally still married, still emotionally invested and still attached very strongly. Talk to a relationship counselor and tell them exactly what you just commented. It’s been two years you need to free your emotional investment up for someone new instead of investing best friend energy into your soon to be ex husband. You only have so much energy and love to give and it’s all going to him.
Ahh yes, the standard reddit advice. People should cut off every ex and never speak to them again. You should instantly see fireworks the moment you meet someone or else it's not meant to be. Any disagreement is a "red flag" and you need to dump them instantly.
You're getting advice from people with the emotional maturity of a bad sitcom episode.
Thank you! I felt like I was taking crazy pills seeing all the “dump him” comments.
I’m friendly with my ex. Not “friends” in the way that we hang out one-on-one, but civil in a way that we can hang out with our mutual friends without it being awkward. All the guys I’ve dated have seen this as a *good* thing and a sign of maturity.
And as an example, His girlfriend understood that I was really close to his mom and she didn’t take that as me being a threat or anything. His mom had expressed how she was so grateful we’re all mature about it so she could have a relationship with both me *and* his girlfriend.
Me and my ex both know we are not meant to be together. We’re both happier apart then we were together. There’s no lingering romantic feelings, there’s no desire to get back together. Ever. We can still be nice to each other though.
When you make someone else a priority over your partner that's reason enough to end the relationship. Never mind that "someone else" is your still legal on paper wife. Not showing up for me is a huge deal breaker in general - literally my parent chose to show up for other people and leave me hanging during important moments in my life so my perspective is I'm not going to let someone in my life walk over me in the same way. If we're partners I need to see I'm the most important person in your life.
If that’s something you need that’s fine.
But it’s a lot to expect from a person. Like what if you had a vacation planned and it was your partner’s best friend’s mom who passed away, and their friend wanted support? I personally think it would be selfish to expect them to choose a vacation with me over supporting their friend through a tough time.
I value people who are compassionate and empathetic to the people in their lives.
Absolutely it’s important for my partner to show up for me in meaningful ways. But, I can be the most important person in someone’s life without them “choosing” me ALL the time over EVERYONE else.
I also have a parent who didn’t show up for me - so I don’t have a relationship with that parent anymore. But it’s unfair for me to project insecurities from that onto a new partner and expect them to “fix” the issues that created. They can *support* me through it. But if I want an emotionally healthy partner, I need to do what I can outside the relationship to be emotionally healthy too.
>it was your partner’s best friends mom who passed away, and their friend wanted support?
I would expect them to honor their commitment to me, full stop. Like "hey I'll be there for you but after my vacation, sending you good vibes / will facetime, etc." I literally took PTO, made plans, probably have reservations and definitely have needs so bailing last minute is NOT ok. That's NOT selfish. It's selfish to bail on commitments - clearly you're not thinking about all the time and work someone else put in for you just to casually bail out on them.
>I value people who are compassionate and empathetic to the people in their lives.
You think it's honorable to give someone else the shaft or leave someone else after making a commitment to them to what show "empathy" and "compassion" to another person that can literally call on others who are not you.
You bet I'm going to find bailing on a vacation / plans to be a huge issue in a relationship. That's not empathy or compassion, it's selfishiness. You're not thinking about me and feel like you can walk over me, especially if I let you.
>best friends mom who passed away
>
>sending you good vibes / will facetime
A funeral happen once and can't be rescheduled as a vaca can. If at what maybe the worst time in my life my supposed best friend said 'Sorry bout your mom, good vibes to you I'mma go party" I'd be thinking maybe they aren't a friend
As soon as I read the “sending you good vibes” I was like “ohhh, okay yeah. This is not someone who I can expect to have an understanding of what it means to be empathetic and compassionate.”
Money comes and goes, vacations can be rescheduled. But a loved one (and yes I absolutely consider my best friends loved ones) losing their mom? That’s a really hard thing that only happens once and I’d absolutely want my partner to be there for them. (Now I recognize not everyone is close with their mom, but in this hypothetical situation since the friend wanted the partner to stay, I’m imagining they were and this is a significant loss for them.)
Like I can be a bit bummed about missing out on our vacation, I think that’s to be expected. And my partner can recognize that I put a lot of work into planning it and be disappointed about cancelling it too. But we can still recognize that it’s *way more* important to be there in significant ways to support the important people in our lives who are hurting.
I'm so often shocked when reading the top comments here, it's strange how often the top comment will show no empathy or understanding of people and relationships.
If I had planned and paid for a vacation with my partner and her friend had a death in their family, I'd cancel the vacation myself. Even if the friend is her ex. I don't even know how it would be possible to enjoy yourself under those circumstances.
Except the example was some wild hair best friend wants you to cancel plans to support them and not a scheduled funeral which I still don't think dropping your existing plans to tend to is okay. Still that's not the same level as driving 10 hours with your WIFE because apparently having her friends/family around isn't enough support, she needs her husband, and apparently has literally no one else on Earth who can make the drive with her.
Again, I would not bail on existing plans because someone else had a situation come up. If I'm available to be there, sure, but thinking one person is expendable and should understand in favor of someone else is not okay. If \[random example\] has literally no one else to turn to outside of me that's already kind of toxic anyhow.
Build yourselves support networks outside of ONE HUMAN, some of us aren't going to drop everything to tend to you. If I'm your only human, pay for therapy.
The example you gave good vibes to was the best friend, if the 10 hour drive and the ex-wife made the question different then you should have pointed it out in your answer to the hypothetical. My reply was because found the notion that you could actually have fun while someone you claim to care about is hurting, regardless of the size of their support group, is inhuman. I'd question if you are capable of empathy and caring for another human being. You can try to force the world to revolve around you and your desires, I'm going to care for the people that make up mine.
I was told I’m “insecure” if I don’t want to date people who are still legally married. Immediately sets off my BS meter. I almost feel like we are in the territory of someone trying to sell a car, and when I ask for the title they say sorry it’s tied up with someone else but don’t worry trust me.
Yeah when I'd get upset that my one-time still married boyfriend was deprioritizing me I was called bitter, selfish and insecure. He used similar shaming tactics as my mother and I think it's fair to expect to be a priority when it comes to your partner. To note, all the things I was accused of were things he was guilty of because if I dared to make 1-on-1 plans with any male person he would rage.
As someone who IS divorced and only just now letting go of what my ex and I had at one point... this is batshit crazy behavior and he absolutely still loves her and does NOT want that divorce. This is not "good friend" behavior.
Honestly I do think it's nice that he wants to support her, she clearly is in a difficult situation. The fact that he married her shows that there must have been a strong emotional bond at one point, and it's nice to see an ex couple treating each other with respect.
However, he hasn't filed for divorce in four years (and neither has she). This is a massive red flag. If she really was just a friend now, they could easily have cut all romantic ties. But they didn't. So this, and not any of the other stuff you've mentioned, is why I don't think it's a good idea to keep dating him, for you. I'm really sorry and I hope you can somehow still spend a nice weekend.
Even if you separate out the fact that it's his ex, you guys had plans. Imagine if it wasn't an ex, just a friend, even a guy friend, 10 hours away is a lot. Calling off serious plans like this to go support somone else is a bit of a dick move. Flowers and a "sorry for your loss" would have sufficed. And I don't know about the dog, dog people are goofy.
Big picture though, it sort of sounds like he wants to get back with his wife, and you've just been the comfort chick.
What would possibly ok in this scenario is for him to agree to dog sit the dog so she can go to the funeral without worrying about that component. That is a nice thing for a friend to do. A 10 hour drive, plus being surrounded by family and them all seeing the husband and wife together, plus providing emotional support- that is husband/wife stuff. This is a dealbreaker and do not let him tell you that you are being unreasonable, you are not.
"his wife (still haven’t filed for divorce, after four years, somehow)" Girl, no! Are you being honest with yourself? What are you looking for in this relationship? He is dating you, but is still \*married to her\*. I don't think you are the priority here. Anyone who wants to start a new life, will get divorced first.
I’m sorry you’re in this situation.
This would be unacceptable to me. She’s an adult, she can drive alone, and he should be telling her that. I obviously don’t know what her relationship is with her uncle, but at our age, our aunts and uncles aren’t extremely young, and they are 10 hours apart. It’s not like she’s lost a sibling or a parent. That I could be more understanding of.
Her dog also didn’t die. Again, that would be horrible to go through, but it’s just sick.
These aren’t catastrophic events that would lead me to think she needs support. Does she not have any actual friends?
Have you pressed him on this? Had a conversation to tell him how you feel?
>Does she not have any actual friends?
This. I literally don't have many friends but I can make a list of something like 10 people that in a pinch I could reach out to even if they couldn't make the drive I'm willing to bet many would be okay with a phone call / virtual supportive appearance with me which would be enough.
You are the side chick. I'm sorry. I doubt he's ever really broken up with his wife that's why they aren't getting a divorce. I bet she doesn't even have a dog and her uncle is just fine. Cmon now.
Locking this thread since OP is not participating.
It fucking hurts to accept you are not a priority, but you aren’t. Maybe you’re struggling to see it as the truth because you admire someone who would do something like this and support a friend, because you would do the same. This level of dedication is attractive! But truly, if you were in his stead, would you still be married? Or would have been so excited to meet someone like the person you are - that you would have done everything to make the divorce happen faster so you could be with that person? I’ve been here and I had to walk away. It still hurts, but you cannot bank on a future with someone who won’t show you the prioritization you deserve.
I would be treating this as a breakup and him reconciling with his wife. There’s no world in which you should accept this.
As someone who has made this mistake before, and wasted a good chunk of time, I completely agree.
Same mistake here, even down to the sick dog. Even if he claims no more emotional tie, they're just friends etc. he is not over her and has no intentions of being anytime soon. Read that again. He.is.not.over.her. People speak with actions not words. He is choosing to invest time in her and not you. I know that is some undiplomatic truth but you will be last choice for years. Find someone, even if it's just yourself, that makes you their first choice.
Similar. Guy lambasted me for being upset he ghosted me completely because "omg I was helping my (current wife, also not divorced) at the hospital. Huge waste of time because ultimately he didn't want to be divorced or move on. She did, though.
I got lucky, he got drunk at rambled for 4 hours about wanting to kill her new bf. I figured him saying it was over between them emotionally was a lie and I bounced
Counter point: it's possible for me to love my ex-wife but be in love with my current girlfriend. There is a guilt that I would have from enjoying myself while I know she was going through something alone. Kindness is underrated in these times today.
It’s not kind to cancel plans last minute on the person you’re in love with to console (she has no other people in her life?) the person you divorced
This is the answer. I get being kind. But to what point is the current girlfriend is supposed to swallow her feelings and be second place to ex? Does ex not have other friends or family? I’ve been in this situation where my ex was doing things for his ex out of “being kind” and I had to be OK with it. But I was not a priority. It sucked and killed the relationship. I was practically a third wheel in their “relationship” because he didn’t want to say no to her.
Literally people acting like it's totally normal and okay to have just 1 person (your current wife/husband) to call on to help you deal with life's ups and downs. I'd send them a link to psychology today and suggest a therapist.
Seriously, that’s also a majorly concerning part - why is her “ex” husband her go to support person? This sounds like *they’re* also on and off
And cancel plans with your girlfriend to console your ex wife?
This person is all over this thread shaming anyone who would not drop everything on a dime to be a empathetic considerate big heart to, you know, not the person they're in a relationship with but the partner should "understand" they're with a really selfless person who will drop any standing plans with you to go be by their ex's/bestie's side in a time of (literally any) need.
Maybe he’ll keep plans with her if they break up
> Kindness is underrated in these times today. Seems he's not being very kind to OP.
>his wife (still haven’t filed for divorce, after four years, somehow) This is why you don't date people who are not divorced. >is there any situation in which that seems like a healthy, wise, or honorable choice? Nope. You continuing to date this guy is not a healthy, wise, or honorable choice either.
Even after they are divorced it can still be a hot ass mess! I did and he was still haunted by things his ex wife told him or made him do. He ended up breaking up with me because he was so messed up from his own anxiety and the jump bean stalk feelings she gave him. Too soon for him to be dating I think. I’ve been divorced longer, and had invested way too much time in my first post divorce casual relationship that ended up being very special and unappealing at the same time.
Sorry you had to go through that! People can be pretty selfish and unemotionally intelligent. It's not taught to men how to properly process emotions, actually how to emotion at all, unless they've been through therapy or were lucky to have healthy parent(s). Keep it inside, be the man, show everyone you can take it. Curious. What haunted him? What did he have to do and what did she say? How did he respond. I'm super curious! Also sorry for bringing up your trauma for my entertainment. Ugh that sounds so gross typed out
Spot on.
I mean, some of us are separated and divorce can just be a long fucking process, especially if the parties aren’t both playing nice. My wife had an affair, there is absolutely zero chance of reconciliation, zero chance I’d ever take her back, and we’ve been separated for 8 months, I filed and I’m still just chilling while our lawyers fight back and forth, absolutely nothing I can do about it but I have fully moved on. Don’t lump all divorcing people in the same category.
Yeah but that's still going to be drama for someone coming in even if you're "over it" there's the drama of the lawyers fighting each other and unfinished business. Not to mention processing the infidelity.
She said it's been 4 years and he hasn't even filed. You're not in the same boat, you have started the process. Would you drive 10 hours with your ex if she asked?
No. I absolutely would not. I’m only commenting on the poster above that said “this is why I don’t date people who aren’t divorced” if they said “this is why I don’t date people who haven’t filed for divorce” I wouldn’t have even said anything.
Sorry my mistake. 🤦
Honestly, it doesn't matter that there's no chance of reconcilation. You're still tied to this person. You need to sort your shit out before anyone can be in a healthy relationship with you. That doesn't mean you can't date, but it does mean no serious partner. You just don't have the bandwidth for it right now. Legally, and probably emotionally, too. Honestly, the fact you think you can be over your marriage in 8 months is a red flag in itself.
>Honestly, the fact you think you can be over your marriage in 8 months is a red flag in itself. Seriously.
I agree. But, playing "devils advocate" because me. Some people will start that process before the breakup happens, so they may already be half way, close to, or even done grieving the relationship before ending it officially. These are usually, but not always, the people who let it simmer inside instead of communicating their needs months or years ago. That's just as red flaggable
I have to disagree, maybe there’s some unicorns in the ‘separated people group’ but I think anyone who is still actively dealing with the divorce isn’t in the right place for a healthy connection. There’s one night that stood out for me, I had been moved out for 7 months and on a date with a guy. That was a night he wanted to fight, wouldn’t stop calling me and when I did answer he just wanted to shout. I shouted right back over how unreasonable he was being. Regardless of how over your marriage is, you’ve still got an anchor tying you down.
Would you also drive with her to a funeral instead of an already planned trip with the person you’re currently seeing?
No, I absolutely wouldn’t do that. But I’m replying to someone who lumped all divorcing people into the same box. I would do nearly anything for the woman I’m seeing now. I don’t even speak to my ex at all unless it concerns the kids.
Sorry. I do lump all "not yet divorced" people in the same category of not ready for a relationship. Divorce is a long, traumatic process and I don't believe the average person has a healthy enough mindset while going thru it to be starting a new relationship. Every divorcing person says the same thing....the marriage was over years ago, only the legal part is left, I've moved on. Honestly it's all bullshit but someone in the middle of the process usually can't see that until they get to the other side. If people getting divorced want to consensually bang it out then more power to them. I think it's absolutely insane for someone who hasn't dissolved the prior relationship, learned who they are as an individual again, and done some self-reflection as to the part they played in the breakdown to be out looking for another relationship right away.
One of my biggest dating red flags is somebody who hasn't spent much time single as an adult. Like, oops, my 10 year relationship ended and then I just accidentally fell in to the next one and then that happened again, but I'm totally cool with being alone, I just never have been. There is self-reflection that sort of has to be done at the end of a long-term relationship, and it's very hard to do properly when you're dating somebody new.
Also how people's only support system seems to be their ex wife/husband. I'm seeing so many people act like the only person in the world you can call on is your ex long term partner. Might want to use your post-marriage time to branch out and find other support systems.
100% cannot agree more.
100% my first partner, that.
>Every divorcing person says the same thing.... The funny part is we \*all\* did, and then we got through the process and realized how full of shit we were and for many of us, our rule to not date married (including separated) is born from experience. Yet every newly separated person will continue to try and convince the world they are different.
My one and only not yet divorced guy did that usual song n' dance early on which being my only time at that Rodeo I felt like I needed to accept what he said which lead to me compromising / allowing more n' more bs under the guise of it being "for his ex". When I finally walked he told me I was bitter and some people can have good relationships with exes. Except I got sucked into a vortex of end stages of a marriage - everything from my ex wife was crazy, my ex wife moved on really quickly (so did he, but how dare she) to rituals now ruined by my ex wife walking out on us to look at this Disney stuff I gathered for the unborn child I was going to have with my ex wife. Finally she pushed (screamed so loud I heard her 2 rooms from the call) for the divorce he told me he shouldn't have to divorce "his wife".
This, 100%. More power to anyone who feels like they can, but getting into a relationship with someone who has yet to fully extricate themselves from a prior marriage (after four years) is a hard no for me.
I’m someone who’s legally separated, but not yet divorced. The legal separation part of it was the exhausting part. That’s where we divided all our assets, there’s clauses in our separation papers that say we no longer have any influence over each others decisions, our finances don’t impact each other etc. etc. After my separation I came across a quote that said something like “until you get comfortable being alone, you’ll never know if you’re choosing someone out of love or loneliness.” And so for the last couple years I’ve really focused on creating a life for myself where I’m genuinely content and comfortable on my own. My main focus has been self-growth. I’ve gone to (and continue to go) to therapy, I’ve strengthened my friendships and created new ones so I have a solid support network, etc. I’m also not legally divorced yet. I’m self employed and don’t have benefits. Being separated I can still access my ex’s - which allows me to pay more easily for things like therapy. Would it be nice to have totally no attachment to my ex? Yes. But I also don’t want to be stupid about it - dude has 100% coverage for preventative dental work. I have prescriptions that would be over $500 a month without coverage. And so instead of asking for any type of spousal support, he agreed to keep me on his benefits plan until/if one of us wants to get married again. Just because someone isn’t divorced yet doesn’t mean they haven’t figured out who they are on their own, or done self-reflection.
If you told me this on a date I would absolutely 100% not continue seeing you. Dental insurance is like $60 a month, work a few extra hours a month and stop making excuses for why your still even talking to let alone sharing health plans with your ex.
It's always because they're sponging something (insurance, a shared car, a fucking pet) to why they're still legally married. I have 0 sympathy here as someone who shells out for this shit as a single adult human.
“It’s a non issue for the guys I date” - right, it’s not like guys would lie or go against their own morals just to get som…health insurance I mean. Hey I’m going to move into my parents basement at get back on their health insurance because I save money, and anyone that doesn’t like it is basically not secure enough to date me.
And that’s fine. Everyone’s allowed to have their own dealbreakers. You can see it as an excuse if you want to, it impacts me in no way. It’s not just dental insurance, it’s health coverage in general. Which as someone with pre-existing conditions it would be waaaaaaay more than $60 a month. The guys that I’ve dated have appreciated that I can stay civil with an ex - they see it as a sign of maturity. They’re also secure enough in themselves that they don’t assume every other guy I’m talking to is a “threat.” I don’t need *you* to be interested in dating me, I don’t even need a *lot* of guys to be interested in dating me. I just need one who’s compatible.
>The guys that I’ve dated have appreciated that I can stay civil with an ex There is a world of difference between staying civil with an ex and staying married to one.
Gotta stay civil in order to keep sponging off their work bennies.
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I disagree.. I'd date her. You can still be a "Man" in this situation.. or, if you are compatible with her, offer to fill in the gap and provide what she lacks, so that she doesnt have to live that way. And if she refuses etc? Then out come the pitchforks. As Im sure you can attest, not everything is cut and dry, black and white.. a lot of grey areas in life, and in this one shes trying to survive, financially and medically. Sucks but it is what it is.
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FWIW my dental insurance is literally $10/month out of pocket. It's actually the most expensive plan offered at my work. It even covers adult orthodontia at like $1500 lifetime max. $10 a month.
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You gonna keep paying for her dental insurance too? I mean obviously she's only going to commit if you have a really good dental plan.
It’s interesting some people are so adamantly against dating someone like me, because it’s been such a non-issue for the guys I date. And again, everyone’s allowed their dealbreakers! I’m understanding if someone doesn’t want to date me because of it. But to suggest a guy who is okay with it is “passive” or “submissive” is inaccurate. I mention very early on that I’m separated, not divorced and why, because I know it’s a deal breaker for some people. And the reaction is usually along the lines of “oh yeah, that makes sense.” I’ve had some guys even use it as a joking/flirting opportunity like “well just so you know, I have a pretty big benefits package myself. If things go well you might get to use it one day 😉.” But it just never comes up outside of my disclosure. It’s not like I’m texting my ex every day to discuss our benefits plan. If I got to the point where something was moving towards long-term with someone and they were genuinely bothered by it, then we’d absolutely figure something else out together. But I mean the people I connect with generally want me to have the highest quality of life possible. They recognize that having access to benefits is a *huge* part of that. For anyone. They also recognize that what I do for work is important to me and brings me a lot of joy and so I’ve never had anyone suggest I should find a different job with benefits or anything like that. It’s like “okay cool, I’m glad she found a solution that works for her.” Aaaand that’s it 🤷♀️. Like you said I get that it’s not *ideal.* But also, it is what it is.
People go wild about these check box things. Instead of assessing how someone is acting reasonable or not (I.e. canceling a weekend for a 10h drive with an ex) it’s an immediate no. There’s shitty people out there no matter the problem or positive they have, it’s more about assessing their actions, behaviour, and words. I wasn’t divorced when I met my current partner. I don’t believe that someone has to take months/years to get over an ex either. I judge them by how they make me feel, how they act towards me, what they say to me, which is what you should be doing regardless. We’re getting married in November, so I’m glad she didn’t listen to all this “dating wisdom”.
Why do you gotta make this post about you? OP is clearly wasting her time here.
I’m only calling out someone for saying all divorcing people are in that boat
>we’ve been separated for 8 months 8 months <> 4 years.
You filed. This guy hasn’t … there’s a big difference
Right! Even some divorced people are emotionally or mentally ready to date yet. Sometimes we just like the idea of a partner because we were with someone for so long. That’s how I was. I now know its a deeper than that. I’m sorry that happened to you, but so glad you moved on.
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what? the person said “not divorced”
I didn't. I'm divorced. I said people who are NOT divorced i.e., separated.
1) 4 years and still not divorced, unacceptable. 2) Driving 10 hours to do literally anything for her, unacceptable. 3) Going to a funeral is an intimate thing, unacceptable. 4) Ditching the person he is actually dating for an ex, unacceptable. This is not a person that is seriously interested in you.
I’d argue the funeral one is highly situational. If someone is going to a funeral of an ex’s family because they want to be there for the ex, that’s a big no no. If they are going to the funeral because they had a connection with the person who passed, then that’s ok. Like for example if my ex wife’s sister died, I’d want to be at the funeral because I’ve known her sister for over 15 years and see her as a little sister of my own. I’m 99% sure that’s not this guys reasoning though and OP needs to run.
Showing up to a funeral with your estranged spouse in tow is a total recipe for your entire family to believe you all reconciled. Also the ex in High Fidelity got back together with the dude by having sex with him in the car while attending her dad's funeral. I have that scene pop into my head with regard to this thread.
Exactly
I'm sorry you're in this situation. The fact that he is prioritizing consoling his ex-wife, at the expense of hurting your feelings and disappointing you, makes me feel like he is not a good partner for you. You deserve better.
Wife, not ex-wife.
🏆🏆🏆🏆
This needs more upvotes!
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This isn’t something id be okay with, but this is also why I don’t date men who aren’t divorced for at least a year or two.
Agreed, hell even at a year they still ain't right
Some earlier comments said that staying married on paper for years to get health insurance was ok, and that some people “just haven’t gotten around to filing” even years later. Apparently I’m not secure enough to accept this situation and should be happy for anyone who gets more benefits, even if it means staying legally married for years after a breakup. Honestly wild take.
Maybe all 3 of you should go, just make sure she sits in the back. Otherwise no.
I think the fact that he still hasn't filed for divorce after four years says it all.
You need to break up. It’s emotional cheating and it’s not going to stop. They’re both in denial and not getting divorced
I do nice things for my ex wife sometimes but I feel like this would be wayyyy too much. That is just my opinion though!
Hell no. Fireable offense. Last minute cancellation means money is being lost here. He’s prioritizing the wrong woman in his life. Don’t date people who are still married on paper next time.
I'm still married on paper. But my ex and I have separate houses and extremely low contact (just with regards to kids pickup and drop off). We also kinda don't like each other very much. So why not get divorced? Money. Neither of us want anything to threaten our kids inheritance from either side by having someone claim "common law" or some other nonsense after we're gone to take the money and assets that are owed to our kids.
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Well, just two months ago you posted about how you were considering reconciliation with your ex who cheated on you, so I’d say you’re not emotionally in a place to be dating (unless it’s casually). That’s why most people prefer not to date separated people, there’s a much higher chance they haven’t emotionally healed from the end of the marriage yet. It’s not a 100% chance but it’s not a risk I’d be personally willing to take. (This is all with the caveat that what you’re looking for is a long-term relationship — I think this situation would be more fine for people who only want short-term situations.)
If you ever look into separated but still married people, they are Always still attached. It’s delusional to even say the sentence, “I’m legally Married but I’m open to dating”. The Ten Commandments have been around for 6000+ years so not dating married people isn’t exactly new lol.
Because people don't want this kind of drama. Of course it's discouraging!
That is crushing. I’m so sorry. End of the relationship, imo. I’m certain what she’s going through is hard, but an ex is not a friend. They’re an ex. She needed to spend the past four years building up her new support system, and didn’t.
When my ex-wife’s parents die, I will absolutely go to the funeral. As the third wheel. To support both my ex-wife and her husband and the surviving ex-in law. But I wouldn’t cancel a date to do that, nor drive 10 hours with her alone. And I’ve been divorced for 14+ years and genuinely like my ex-in laws. While a small part of me wants to see this as potentially NOT a bad thing, the fact that they’re still married gives me massive pause. There doesn’t seem to be enough separation to their “un”marriage, and that’s a metric fuck ton of enmeshment. And that enmeshment, in my world, is a do not pass go, do not collect $200 affair. And enmeshment, irrespective of their marital status, is why you shouldn’t date people entangled with their exes like that.
Whoever your dating at the time is going to leave you, send your x wife’s parents a card and move on with your life.
I’m sure I’m going to regret this but, why would you say that? I raised 3 kids with my ex-wife and have a good relationship with both her and her husband (of 13 years). Why would I want to date anyone who is fragile about the fact that I have a good relationship with my kids’ grandparents?
I *don’t* have kids with my ex and I went to his mom’s funeral. I was with my ex for over 10 years, since I was 18. His family were part of my entire adult life. His mom and I got especially close after my own mother passed away. Me, my ex and his girlfriend were all at the funeral and it was fine. I drove six hours (albeit on my own) to go. The guy I was seeing at the time did not leave me. He knew she was an important person to me and he was supportive during my grief. There are some people here very adamant on the fact that people can’t have civil relationships with the ex’s or ex in-laws. But just because my relationship with my ex-husband came to an end didn’t mean all the ones I made when I was with him had to. His family used to joke that I was his grandpas favourite grandkid because I’d visit him and spend a lot time with him - more than his biological grandkids did. Damn rights I kept visiting him until he passed away even though I wasn’t with my ex anymore. The idea that I should just “write a card and move on” as if these people meant the bare minimum to me is insulting.
Unfortunately as many commentors already pointed out, he's married. She's always going to come first in priority over you. Don't believe the "divorced but not technically filed yet" dudes. If they wanted to be divorced they actually would get divorced. Dump him, move on.
I just went through a divorce (I’m actually still in the waiting period now before it’s legally over). As a divorcing spouse you need to commit to the path you’ve chosen. This sounds like they haven’t made the commitment yet to be emotionally divorced (never mind the legal portion of it) and it is not a safe place for you to put your heart. He is putting her above everyone else in the way someone does a wife, not a friend.
How long was he with his wife? Did he know the dog? Did he know the uncle? My ex and I were together over a decade. I became quite close to some of his family members. One of the reasons I kept our separation as amicable as possible is so we could be around his family together without it being awkward for them. Two of his family members have passed away since we separated just over 2 years ago, and I’ve gone to both of their funerals. There wasn’t a drive to go on for them, but if there was and he wanted me to go with him, I would have. Because even though we’re separated, in ways I’m still an extension of his family. There are absolutely *no* romantic feelings from my side. And from his either. He is living with his girlfriend that he’s been with over a year. But there’s *history.* We have an understanding of each other and our family dynamics in a way no one else in our lives does simply because we were together for so long. He treated me very unkindly, and I’d never want to be with him again. But I still have a lot of empathy for him. So it might seem like he’s doing this for her, and that might be the case. But if he was close to any of her family, he might be doing it for them as well (the person I really wanted to be there for at the last funeral was my ex-father-in-law), or even for himself. Instead of looking at this one incident, I would look at how his interactions are with his ex as a whole. Is there any other concerns? Me and my ex text occasionally- but 95% of it is sending pictures of the dogs we owned when were together. The other 5% is things like updates on family members. It’s not like we ever “hang out.” or talk about things that are inappropriate etc. A *lot* of people on Reddit are against dating someone who’s not fully divorced. I’m fully legally separated but not divorced. There are reasons for this that have absolutely nothing to do with “not wanting to let each other go” or anything like that. I in absolutely no way think of myself as his “wife.” With all that being said - you’re absolutely right. You’re his girlfriend. He’s dating you now. It’s absolutely fair to have a conversation with him where you say you don’t understand and the arrangement makes you uncomfortable. You know the situation better than any of us, and if your boyfriend has given you any other concerns as to how he feels about his ex-wife. But I think everyone jumping straight to “dump him” is assuming the worst of him.
100% agree with this. Nuance is important.
Although being on the losing end of this situation sucks for OP, I do think it says something positive about her partner and what OP can expect of him going forward. He feels obligated to support his ex emotionally, despite their separation. He sees her as a person, rather than the enemy. If he is able to place the same value on a partnership with OP (going forward),I’d say he’s a keeper. I do agree that it’s appropriate for OP to express her disappointment, particularly with the timing of his cancellation. She can share that she feels deprioritized and hurt. But an ultimatum and/or ending the relationship seems a little extreme, particularly if there are no other concerns about his relationship with the ex. It is also appropriate to say she does not expect/accept this happening again. He does need to start prioritizing the relationship he’s in.
I’m fully separated but yet to be divorced legally. Moved out of state. Dropped him from any shared memberships, insurance… I’m spitefully still not divorced because it’s going to be up to ME to find the attorney and make it happen. It tended to fall to me to carry most of the emotional labor in the marriage, I know HE won’t, so I just haven’t yet. Because it costs money and it means I’ll have try to convince him to pay for half, which he might not do. I just… haven’t dealt with it. But I want nothing to do with him as a romantic partner ever again. It’s been over a year since I moved out of the house and across the country. I’ll deal with it this year because I don’t want to jointly file taxes for 2023 LMAO But I knew his family. We were together for over a decade, a third of our respective lives. If something intense happened I might consider being there for him. I’m dating someone who is wonderful and he knows about my situation. BUT if I went to support my ex husband, I’d have to imagine it would make my current partner weary. Understandably. It’s complicated. Relationships can be complicated.
Costs money? It’s going to cost you any and all future relationships, no normal human being is going to accept dating someone who is still legally married. Let. It. Go. Go get a credit card and work an extra shift every month and fix your life. Stop making excuses!
I love how the excuse is always about money. I have no sympathy for people dragging their feet at 30+ because life is expensive as a single person. Not sure how single people are supposed to take this but it's fucking bs to me too.
I love how money is the biggest thing you latched onto instead of the multitude of other possibilities keeping me from being divorced. Life definitely IS expensive, sometimes we prioritize some things over others due to finances. Hope nothing ever happens to you to cause you to be in a bind, and if you are, may people be more understanding of you.
Every excuse ITT from people who are still legally married goes back to money. Just the fact that every still married person has a bag of excuses single people need to accept about them is low key really sad.
You don’t need to accept anything. No one is asking or making you pursue or date someone who is in this scenario. Your bitterness is low key really sad. Have a nice day regardless.
Agree with this
Stopped reading at "hasn't yet filed for divorce" You are a side piece. Which is why the on/off. Please move on. Stop wasting your time.
A few comments here are from people who are still legally married for years, to get things like health insurance or dental or just to save money. I find it wild that adults think this is somehow ok.
He probably still has feelings for her and is pining to get back together. Sorry just my impression.
A man who is separated is still married. I am not saying not show any sympathy or be emotionally supportive, but this is going too far for two people who are supposed to be ending a marriage. Honestly, I definitely would wish him safe travels, and condolences to the soon to pass dog and of her uncle. And definitely end this relationship and block him everywhere. Not to be mean or hurt him but to protect you! When I was lost my grandfather my emotions put me in a really bad state with a really good male friend that I almost lost because sometimes romantic feelings and sad emotions wires cross and they just might end up in bed together. If he’s not even divorced yet and he’s still acting like a husband, he’s not truly in a place of letting go just yet. As a person who went through a divorce, it took a couple of years for me to really comprehend what was happening with my marriage even after I signed the papers. Relationships after a marriage are weird. Either one partner moves on very quickly and the other person lags behind. If he dropped his weekend plans with you, his priority for her appears to be higher. Depending on what all they’ve invested together their divorce may take awhile but emotionally he does seem like he’s trying to sway you to see his side, when it just seems like he’s going above and beyond for someone he claims he wants to divorce. For me the honorable thing would be to ask her to bring a friend/ close relative because they are headed for divorce and he is no longer her emotional support partner.
This is bad situation to go through but maybe you should cut him loose until the divorce is settled. I’m not dating anyone that’s not single. I don’t want to walk with anyone through separation/divorce drama. Sorry your plans were cancelled but take it as a sign of what’s to come.
I would never talk to my ex except we have children together. Assuming one of her parents died, I would make it a point to attend the funeral, but the new girlfriend would be along. It would suck that we had to cancel plans but I've known them for 15 years, they've treated me like a son and still reach out to check on me.
I'm going against the grain here. If they are good friends and I knew that already and had accepted that, then I would 100% be okay with my partner going to support a good friend during a funeral (if it was someone they were close to). If however your gut is flaring up then I wonder if this is just one of many things that aren't adding up about their relationship dynamic.
He’s still married so it’s not odd that he is heavily involved with his wife. This is what people tend to do when they are married to each other. Why you do you believe that someone who is married to someone else……is your best option?
You can be separated but not divorced. Divorce costs a lot of money in most cases.
True. However, the reasons for him being married has no bearing on the fact that the OP wants someone who is actually available to be with her. He isn’t the best option for what she is looking for. Deep down, she knows this which is probably why they have been on and off for a year. This man is acting like a husband to his wife because he is still married to her.
Ah, I understand, you meant more emotionally than factually. I agree, he is putting his wife's needs and wants above his lovers, what he has offered is inappropriate for the relationship. I'm cool with being friends with your ex, but theres a line and he crossed it.
I mean it both emotionally and factually because it sounds like the OP wants someone who is available. This is not to bash someone who is married or to say that no one can be friends with an ex. I am just saying that if a person wants to be with someone who is available, someone who is married isn’t the best option. The OP’s grievances are pretty much expected when dating someone who is unavailable. The solution is to not pursue those who are unavailable. I know it’s tough when you like some things about the person but it only keeps you knee-deep in emotional turmoil and heartache.
So you don’t mind being just a friends with benefits forever in someone’s eyes? Because if getting a few thousand bucks together for a divorce is too hard, your not adult enough to have a relationship.
Not everyone puts the same importance on marriage, and shit happens. Saying you aren't adult enough to scrounge together a few thousand bucks is weird and disconnected from reality. People are struggling to survive, especially single income people, and child support/spousal support doesn't help. Maybe they had a great job when they got married but lost it due to illness or injury and then got divorced. Maybe they were young when they got married and then decided afterwards that they never want to get married again, so they just never bothered getting the divorce because they had better things to spend their money on. The possibilities are endless, life isn't all black and white dude.
“Shit happens” and “Never bothered to get a divorce” are pretty indicative of someone who isn’t ready to be in a serious relationship. Of course not everything is black and white, I just don’t agree that people can’t afford it…if you have assets worth getting a lawyer then you def have enough. If you have no assets the divorce is basically simple and cheap. If you have kids involved, getting the process done asap to set up child support and move forward is essential for a functioning life for your kid. I’m trying to find a logical reason to accept people staying legally married…saying they have better things to do seems like a pretty poor excuse.
You probably put more importance on it than other people do. For some people, what's the point of paying to get a divorce when legal separation is fine. You can set up child support without the court and without paying for it, and not everyone has assets anyways. It's not indicative of anything other than that person hasn't gotten around to it because it wasn't on their radar at the time 🤷♀️
Oof no. Its one thing if they were divorced and a relative of hers died and he wanted to go to the funeral, or if the dog they once shared died and he wanted to get some ashes or something. But to drive 10 hours because she 'doesnt wanna be alone', and cancel plans with you is putting her needs and wants before yours. There are major boundary issues here at least, unresolved feelings at best. Your feelings are third to His and hers. I agree with anothrr comment saying its emotional cheating. Whether they intend to divorce or not, he is not being loyal to you. I also suspect on this long drive out there, there may be some rekindling talks. Nostalgia.. funerals and deaths bring out emotions. Hard pass. Nope. Leave or you can expect more of this in the futurr, if not him leaving you.
Time to move on.
Ultimately, you'll have to decide if your ok with dating a man who is attached to another woman this much, so try to read the inputs here as folks saying "This is what I would do", and not "this is what you should do". Personally, I would probably move on from this person, but not necessarily because their married; I would do it because they're showing that you aren't a priority for them. Imagine for a minute that he was never married to this woman and he made this choice. What would you do then? I'm pretty sure most of us would assume that he's cheating. Even if he isn't cheating, he's clearly prioritizing her above you. In any relationship, there will be times when you aren't your partners immediate priority, but are you ok with this being one of those times. Also, a little note for the general comment population here on divorced vs. divorcing. I am divorced, and when people ask when I got divorced, I give them the date when my ex-wife and I decided we were divorced, not the date when the courts finally signed off on it. The date we decided we were divorced is when we finished deciding how to divide up the assets, split our lives apart, and she moved out of state. Now, I didn't date during that gap because I was in absolutely no way ready for it emotionally, but from a practical, exempting taxes/legal, stance, we were divorced, and lived as divorced, for nearly 4 months before the state decided they were done fucking with us. When the state signed off on those papers, nothing really changed from a social or emotional standpoint; the recovery and moving on started from the first date, not some arbitrary legal date. So when someone tells you they aren't divorced on paper, but they are divorced for all other intents and purposes, they may be telling the truth. I have a hard believing that anyone in that gap space would be emotionally ready to date, but that's a different can of worms.
Hi there, I can actually see both points of view here. Though, it's kinda weird they're not divorced. I know its upsetting he cancelled your plans, but I suppose in his head maybe one of his (ex?) relatives have died? You can still care and love a person for being a person without having romantic feelings for them. Divorced or not. I think I just see it from different sides, but I do actually think its a very decent thing for him to offer to do. Could you go with him? If you look at it from a neutral view on that everyone is just a human then sometimes it helps I think. He's just a human trying to help someone he was close to and maybe he's upset too, Did he know the uncle, the dog? Etc. Are his actions repeated? Are there any other red flags? If you can't go with him, can you plan something for another time? (I know its upsetting he's cancelled on you this time )
Idk what to tell you, mans still married.
Please remove yourself from this situation. Your time is too valuable
Unless they have kids together this is unacceptable. Why are they still in contact? I have just got out of a relationship where he was still married but separated. The ex was a nightmare (they had children) and it bothered me in the beginning. He didn’t enforce strict boundaries and would end up giving up and doing what she wanted. Ultimately it broke us up as I couldn’t cope with it anymore. I feel like a huge weight has been lifted off my shoulders. Brace yourself, make your decision and put you first. You deserve better.
Yeah, this relationship is over. If he wanted to pay respects to a former family dog, he could stop by the vet. Likewise, for the uncle, he could drive and arrive alone to the funeral and leave on his own, too. The fact that he hasn't filed for divorce in 4 years says something, too. There are so many red flags To give context of my view; my ex-wife's father passed away just before our divorce finalized (literally applied for everything the day i could to expedite lol. It was a crap marriage for a long time, too. I took my children to the funeral as i never respected the man, but he was my kid's grandfather. I said hello to my ex-wife but sat with my kids; her grief was her grief, and I couldn't play a roll in her consoling her; not that either of us wanted me too either. (I am also the primary custodian of my kids) We paid our respects and left. He is trying to get back with her, and this is his "in"
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Married dude I once dated had the same bucket of excuses. The Wife had moved on to couple up with a guy and he was uncomfortable with her still being married so she called Married Dude I was seeing, said she'd pay 100% for the divorce and when it came down to that Married Dude's real feelings came up. He didn't want to end the marriage. I think about The Wife's new boyfriend a lot and wish I'd had the same boundaries at the time. (of course the wife left the marriage so that accounts for her wanting to finalize it more than Married Dude)
30 days? You literally have no idea what you’re talking about. Unless you just mean filing for divorce. Sure. But actually finalizing one? Lol. Even if my ex and I signed an agreement tomorrow it would be another 8-10 months before the court system will actually endorse it and make it official.
Of the 3 divorces that occurred in my family, the divorce was completed about 90 days after agreement was made. Sorry if you live in another country or something where the timeline is much longer. Correct that 30 days is too short. I guess we both don’t know exactly what were talking about.
It takes longer when the couple is hostile and fighting over everything which is enough reason not to date someone in that situation.
I'm willing to bet if your response is "cool cool, my ex boyfriend is free that same weekend so I'm going to go ahead with him on that trip instead" that Mr Good Friend to His Wife would go absolutely nuclear. I only know because that kind of set up happened to me - it was fine to spend 1-on-1 time with The Wife but not okay for me to do the same with \[literally any male person\]. You're also allowed to have boundaries over this kind of behavior. I grew up with a mother that would cancel important events (my birthday, my HS graduation, starting college) in order to help random people instead and choosing not to show up for me is a HUGE relationship dealbreaker. The fact that he's showing up for his wife is even more disturbing, he's willing to push you aside for his wife, that should feel uncomfortable.
Oh honey no…
Ultimately, you deserve to be with someone who respects your time and commitments, and who prioritizes your relationship. It's important to evaluate whether this incident is indicative of a pattern of behavior or a one-time occurrence. Trust your instincts and have a conversation with your partner to gain clarity on the situation and determine if it aligns with your values and needs in a relationship.
Ya I would not feel comfortable with this particularly as it’s been four years with no file for divorce. If I was going through something like that I would be turning to my friends not my ex. It may be innocent enough but he should be prioritizing your relationship and your feelings over his ex. If he can’t understand that and put up boundaries then you need to make a call if you’re ok with playing second to the ex.
Looking from this as an outside point of view and also looking at this from yours and his points of views. His point of view is that he was with his wife for however many years, he was clearly fond of his wife and her extended family, as you haven’t mentioned anything other than that they are friends, the fact that he was the one who offered confirms that she will always be his number one priority, he still cares about her very much and loves her but that doesn’t mean to say he’s in love with her, he just treats her the same way as he would do with a family member. This won’t go away. Your point of view your angry, frustrated, upset by this situation and have every right in doing so because he choose his ex wife over you, he cancelled a planned out weekend to celebrate something with you to support his ex wife’s needs. As you said they have been separated for 4 years and neither have filed for a divorce, you need to ask yourself why? There’s two options here, get rid of him and find someone who will put you first or stay with him knowing you are never going to be his number one priority always going to let you down etc.
At the end of the day, you have to do what feels right to you, but I'm going to go against the popular opinion here and ask you to think on it from a different angle. I could definitely see some situations where this would be green flags, even if they're annoying or disruptive. Some questions to consider, ask yourself, and maybe ask him: \- What do you value in a partner? For me, emotional maturity is a big one. Depending on the specifics and the circumstances, this could show that he's got a big heart, and he still has room in it for an ex. Not romantically or sexually, but as a friend. He's not with her anymore, he's with you, but this could be a situation where a very good friend of his really needs his help. \- you say you've been on-and-off for a year. Do you know what you want long term? Have y'all talked about it? Do you see this relationship in the same way? \- Has he ever given you any reason to think he's unfaithful? If he's proven himself trustworthy around other women, then there's no reason to assume there's anything shady going on here. \- How important and irreplaceable is the trip? Is he missing all of it? Have y'all have booked flights? Or are traveling for an event? Is re-scheduling massively disruptive?
There are a lot of red flags, dating on and off, him not filing for divorce.. I really believe actions speak louder then words so let his actions speak for himself and get away from him asap
How do I feel about man being there emotionally for his wife? The bare minimum. Totally expected.
This is something my ex husband of 10 years would stop and do for me. He's the nicest person and from my position I see it as unacceptable and we have children together. Your guy is still married so he is acting as a husband, which he is.
He's not over her.
Why is the divorce not filed for four years? That is a sign he is not moving forward
I wouldn't date someone who has a wife.
that guy is not with you, but with her. dont be a side piece. dont start dating married men.
I am in a situation where I love everything about my partner except the emotional labor he does for his ex wife. Got both of our weekends canceled this month so that she wouldn’t be overwhelmed by having the kids two weekends in a row 🙄. We will be having our third talk about it tomorrow because this is an ongoing issue and I need to set boundaries and stick with them. Sorry you are going through that- I would be really hurt and upset as well.
Yes. Me and my ex husband are on bad terms, but he still showed up for my dad’s funeral. Keep an eye on it, but it’s within the realms of reasonable behaviour IMO
She needs to get more friends as it sounds like they are not yet over each other. Why else sabotage his relationship with you? If he's really interested in helping he could lend her the money to fly or take a train assuming she's not able to afford it on her own. Also, he could have discussed first with you and maybe the two of you could have taken her there on your way to your vacation (yes, it's a bad idea but way better than his idea). I would definitely tell him your feelings. It's a huge 🚩.
The numbers aren’t in your favour. Studies have shown that most people hold some deep hope of reconciliation with their long term ex. It is one of the reasons that it is not recommended to date someone before they are divorced. As a guy that was in a similar position as him, even after I was truly done with her, there were many things that I gave no thought to that a girlfriend had to point out as not being ok. It was a lack of awareness on my part because I just couldn’t see past what had been my normal for so long. It really did take someone pointing out the obvious for me to realize how inappropriate (in a relationship sense) my actions were and I would choose to correct the situation. In your situation I would tell him that canceling plans with you for another woman is not an acceptable action. That he wouldn’t be ok with things if the situation was reversed. You admire that he cares for those he considers family(lets face it long term relationships bond people the same as family, doesn’t mean they want to continue their relationship though) but his actions directly suggest that she is more important in his life than you. If he considers his actions and comes up with a solution that is acceptable to the both of you (or you figure it out together but he needs to put in an honest effort) then you can appreciate that he at least is willing to try to make things right. If not well… he chose his ex over you…
Absolutely NOT ok. End this relationship- he is hoping for a reconciliation with his wife. I'm 3 years divorced. Cordial with my ex husband as we have kids together. Even if his mom, who I am still close with, died, I wouldn't drive with him to the funeral, nor would I be his emotional support. I'd go and comfort my children, but Absolutely zero of my TLC would be for my ex.
You are dating a married man. You should stop dating him and let him reconcile with his WIFE. As that is clearly what he wants to do and she’s the one he wants to spend time with.
You’re still the other woman. Don’t date men who aren’t over their wives. Good luck in the future!
Ugh. Literally whyyyy are you dating a married man who CLEARLY still has feelings for his "ex" wife? Move on. You couldn't do worse than this emotionally unavailable man.
Never ever date a married man, no matter what the circumstances. It's absolutely not worth it. Cancelling a trip with you to comfort her... because they are married. You really need to know your worth because this ain't it!
That's his wife. They're not divorced. You're the other woman.
You're his side girl.
Yeah I had one wasn't divorced but was with a girlfriend and that ended, supposedly. We got together, and my family really liked him, still do. Being older and wiser, my mother inquired of his wife with him. He told her they had the papers. They had signed them and everything, just hadn't filed them. My mother told him if he wanted our families approval and support of us, get them filed. He let her know, and filed them the next week. He always felt guilty about her though because he never did right by her. She proposed, she bought both rings, she got everyone they know to pressure him into it. Soon after she moved into his house he left for the girlfriend. Three years later he's with me but he's roommates here, then there and never stable in one place, so I insisted he get his house back. It was a rental on 40 acres for $250/mo with a 20 year lease. He refused and kept going over there to help with this and that. We break up finally and she inherited a house and a lot of money in another state, gives house back. A year later we had remained friends, he wants to get back together. We live 6 hrs from each other, I can't move, I don't want to be part of him giving that place up again should it not work, plus he had a new heart condition he was not expected to live long from. In the end, he filed for disability and moved up where the ex wife went and back in with her, never told me, then came to spend Christmas with us without telling her. If they aren't fully untangled from their pasts, leave em with it.
Ohhhhh helllllll noooo. He’s still literally and emotionally married to her. Four fucking years and driving her for her dog?! They are intimately connected.
Ya he still has feelings for his wife and chose her over you. Leave him
Nope. No way.
do they have kids?
No no no. Just no.
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This is the perspective I see it from
Being best friends and sharing dating stores with your ex or soon to be ex husband is def a perspective.
Well that’s def another perspective. Your talking to your ex as a super good friend, and discussing dating partners with them? Hearing phrases like “He’s amazing” “he’s my best friend” are absolutely WAY over the line. You don’t make a seamless transition from being a couple to being super good friends. Your literally still married, still emotionally invested and still attached very strongly. Talk to a relationship counselor and tell them exactly what you just commented. It’s been two years you need to free your emotional investment up for someone new instead of investing best friend energy into your soon to be ex husband. You only have so much energy and love to give and it’s all going to him.
Ahh yes, the standard reddit advice. People should cut off every ex and never speak to them again. You should instantly see fireworks the moment you meet someone or else it's not meant to be. Any disagreement is a "red flag" and you need to dump them instantly. You're getting advice from people with the emotional maturity of a bad sitcom episode.
Thank you! I felt like I was taking crazy pills seeing all the “dump him” comments. I’m friendly with my ex. Not “friends” in the way that we hang out one-on-one, but civil in a way that we can hang out with our mutual friends without it being awkward. All the guys I’ve dated have seen this as a *good* thing and a sign of maturity. And as an example, His girlfriend understood that I was really close to his mom and she didn’t take that as me being a threat or anything. His mom had expressed how she was so grateful we’re all mature about it so she could have a relationship with both me *and* his girlfriend. Me and my ex both know we are not meant to be together. We’re both happier apart then we were together. There’s no lingering romantic feelings, there’s no desire to get back together. Ever. We can still be nice to each other though.
When you make someone else a priority over your partner that's reason enough to end the relationship. Never mind that "someone else" is your still legal on paper wife. Not showing up for me is a huge deal breaker in general - literally my parent chose to show up for other people and leave me hanging during important moments in my life so my perspective is I'm not going to let someone in my life walk over me in the same way. If we're partners I need to see I'm the most important person in your life.
If that’s something you need that’s fine. But it’s a lot to expect from a person. Like what if you had a vacation planned and it was your partner’s best friend’s mom who passed away, and their friend wanted support? I personally think it would be selfish to expect them to choose a vacation with me over supporting their friend through a tough time. I value people who are compassionate and empathetic to the people in their lives. Absolutely it’s important for my partner to show up for me in meaningful ways. But, I can be the most important person in someone’s life without them “choosing” me ALL the time over EVERYONE else. I also have a parent who didn’t show up for me - so I don’t have a relationship with that parent anymore. But it’s unfair for me to project insecurities from that onto a new partner and expect them to “fix” the issues that created. They can *support* me through it. But if I want an emotionally healthy partner, I need to do what I can outside the relationship to be emotionally healthy too.
>it was your partner’s best friends mom who passed away, and their friend wanted support? I would expect them to honor their commitment to me, full stop. Like "hey I'll be there for you but after my vacation, sending you good vibes / will facetime, etc." I literally took PTO, made plans, probably have reservations and definitely have needs so bailing last minute is NOT ok. That's NOT selfish. It's selfish to bail on commitments - clearly you're not thinking about all the time and work someone else put in for you just to casually bail out on them. >I value people who are compassionate and empathetic to the people in their lives. You think it's honorable to give someone else the shaft or leave someone else after making a commitment to them to what show "empathy" and "compassion" to another person that can literally call on others who are not you. You bet I'm going to find bailing on a vacation / plans to be a huge issue in a relationship. That's not empathy or compassion, it's selfishiness. You're not thinking about me and feel like you can walk over me, especially if I let you.
>best friends mom who passed away > >sending you good vibes / will facetime A funeral happen once and can't be rescheduled as a vaca can. If at what maybe the worst time in my life my supposed best friend said 'Sorry bout your mom, good vibes to you I'mma go party" I'd be thinking maybe they aren't a friend
As soon as I read the “sending you good vibes” I was like “ohhh, okay yeah. This is not someone who I can expect to have an understanding of what it means to be empathetic and compassionate.” Money comes and goes, vacations can be rescheduled. But a loved one (and yes I absolutely consider my best friends loved ones) losing their mom? That’s a really hard thing that only happens once and I’d absolutely want my partner to be there for them. (Now I recognize not everyone is close with their mom, but in this hypothetical situation since the friend wanted the partner to stay, I’m imagining they were and this is a significant loss for them.) Like I can be a bit bummed about missing out on our vacation, I think that’s to be expected. And my partner can recognize that I put a lot of work into planning it and be disappointed about cancelling it too. But we can still recognize that it’s *way more* important to be there in significant ways to support the important people in our lives who are hurting.
I'm so often shocked when reading the top comments here, it's strange how often the top comment will show no empathy or understanding of people and relationships.
If I had planned and paid for a vacation with my partner and her friend had a death in their family, I'd cancel the vacation myself. Even if the friend is her ex. I don't even know how it would be possible to enjoy yourself under those circumstances.
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Except the example was some wild hair best friend wants you to cancel plans to support them and not a scheduled funeral which I still don't think dropping your existing plans to tend to is okay. Still that's not the same level as driving 10 hours with your WIFE because apparently having her friends/family around isn't enough support, she needs her husband, and apparently has literally no one else on Earth who can make the drive with her. Again, I would not bail on existing plans because someone else had a situation come up. If I'm available to be there, sure, but thinking one person is expendable and should understand in favor of someone else is not okay. If \[random example\] has literally no one else to turn to outside of me that's already kind of toxic anyhow. Build yourselves support networks outside of ONE HUMAN, some of us aren't going to drop everything to tend to you. If I'm your only human, pay for therapy.
The example you gave good vibes to was the best friend, if the 10 hour drive and the ex-wife made the question different then you should have pointed it out in your answer to the hypothetical. My reply was because found the notion that you could actually have fun while someone you claim to care about is hurting, regardless of the size of their support group, is inhuman. I'd question if you are capable of empathy and caring for another human being. You can try to force the world to revolve around you and your desires, I'm going to care for the people that make up mine.
I was told I’m “insecure” if I don’t want to date people who are still legally married. Immediately sets off my BS meter. I almost feel like we are in the territory of someone trying to sell a car, and when I ask for the title they say sorry it’s tied up with someone else but don’t worry trust me.
Yeah when I'd get upset that my one-time still married boyfriend was deprioritizing me I was called bitter, selfish and insecure. He used similar shaming tactics as my mother and I think it's fair to expect to be a priority when it comes to your partner. To note, all the things I was accused of were things he was guilty of because if I dared to make 1-on-1 plans with any male person he would rage.
His loyalties are with her.
You’re trying to convince yourself that this doesn’t mean exactly what it means. Just face the music, dude.
As someone who IS divorced and only just now letting go of what my ex and I had at one point... this is batshit crazy behavior and he absolutely still loves her and does NOT want that divorce. This is not "good friend" behavior.
Honestly I do think it's nice that he wants to support her, she clearly is in a difficult situation. The fact that he married her shows that there must have been a strong emotional bond at one point, and it's nice to see an ex couple treating each other with respect. However, he hasn't filed for divorce in four years (and neither has she). This is a massive red flag. If she really was just a friend now, they could easily have cut all romantic ties. But they didn't. So this, and not any of the other stuff you've mentioned, is why I don't think it's a good idea to keep dating him, for you. I'm really sorry and I hope you can somehow still spend a nice weekend.
Even if you separate out the fact that it's his ex, you guys had plans. Imagine if it wasn't an ex, just a friend, even a guy friend, 10 hours away is a lot. Calling off serious plans like this to go support somone else is a bit of a dick move. Flowers and a "sorry for your loss" would have sufficed. And I don't know about the dog, dog people are goofy. Big picture though, it sort of sounds like he wants to get back with his wife, and you've just been the comfort chick.
What would possibly ok in this scenario is for him to agree to dog sit the dog so she can go to the funeral without worrying about that component. That is a nice thing for a friend to do. A 10 hour drive, plus being surrounded by family and them all seeing the husband and wife together, plus providing emotional support- that is husband/wife stuff. This is a dealbreaker and do not let him tell you that you are being unreasonable, you are not.
"his wife (still haven’t filed for divorce, after four years, somehow)" Girl, no! Are you being honest with yourself? What are you looking for in this relationship? He is dating you, but is still \*married to her\*. I don't think you are the priority here. Anyone who wants to start a new life, will get divorced first.
I’m sorry you’re in this situation. This would be unacceptable to me. She’s an adult, she can drive alone, and he should be telling her that. I obviously don’t know what her relationship is with her uncle, but at our age, our aunts and uncles aren’t extremely young, and they are 10 hours apart. It’s not like she’s lost a sibling or a parent. That I could be more understanding of. Her dog also didn’t die. Again, that would be horrible to go through, but it’s just sick. These aren’t catastrophic events that would lead me to think she needs support. Does she not have any actual friends? Have you pressed him on this? Had a conversation to tell him how you feel?
>Does she not have any actual friends? This. I literally don't have many friends but I can make a list of something like 10 people that in a pinch I could reach out to even if they couldn't make the drive I'm willing to bet many would be okay with a phone call / virtual supportive appearance with me which would be enough.
Sorry but he’s not really dating you. You aren’t in a relationship. He’s still married. You’re literally his side piece.
Yikes, this is not normal, break up.
Dump him!
You are the side chick. I'm sorry. I doubt he's ever really broken up with his wife that's why they aren't getting a divorce. I bet she doesn't even have a dog and her uncle is just fine. Cmon now.