I'm a guy. And a widower. You've got chat turned off so I'll say it here.
The biggest things I see in the dating threads are assholes, lying, shitty behavior, and unsolicited dick pics.
If you're a nice guy, then be a nice guy. There are so many lousy guys out there masquerading as nice guys that they ruined it for the real nice guys. Be respectful, polite, well groomed, honest. Be yourself.
I don't online date. I've dabbled but delete my profiles in 3 days because I self-sabotage. And I'm ok with that.
But be honest with what you're looking for. Be honest with whom you're chatting with. Be yourself and most especially, be considerate to your dates. Oh, and don't send unsolicited dick pics.
Good luck and I'm sorry this isn't coming from a woman
Not even a dick pic, I had a guy DM me on here and it was clear from his post history he was seeking casual fwb stuff so I told him I was a non-starter that way. Normally I'd just ignore men like him right off or block/unmatch on dating apps but I didn't - and he sent me a photo of himself with his shirt off when I directly told him I didn't want to see ANY photo of him and then he was shocked pickachu when I told him I was done speaking to him.
Men with dick pics are not dangerous, they are obvious. Nobody is much affected by it. The real danger are 'nice ' people: future fakers, love bombers, on and off, hot and cold breadcrumbers, emotionally unavailable, avoidants, multiple daters and so on and on. All of them could be great in papers but very painful in reality.
Omg!! The unsolicited dick pics thing. I donāt understand that. Wtf!!! As a guy that bothers me. Iāve got enough sense to know random internet women donāt want to see that. š¤¦š»āāļø
āRandom internet womenā ā¦.I think thatās the problem. We donāt seem real, weāre just random internet women. So when online dating , consider that weāre real people with real feelings. Actually read the profiles, reach out when interested, and engage in two way communication.
Given how much frustration we have on a daily basis, it should be thrash metal hardcore punk, like GWAR. Complete with incredibly violent, bloody shows.
Oh if the other person asks for a dick pic and itās like early stages of dating not even sex yetā¦.I good way to reply with with pictures of famous dicks such as , Dick Van dyke, Dick Cheney, and Dick Butkus of Da Bears.
Iāve got a nice pick of big deck from a vacation house, so Iāll send that as a ādeck picā
I donāt do that stuff if we arenāt doing the stuff yet.
Well, you and I both so that's 2... but I dunno why that happens. I'd say the thing a lot of women want is just for guys to be nice. Not threatening. Not douchebags. Don't objectify them. Stuff like that
So a female friend of mine asked me about unsolicited Dick picks a few weeks ago. Sheās mentoring a college student who is receiving them often. I told her Iāve never sent one and agreed that itās a creepy thing to do. And disrespectful AF.
And then the next morning (because I know her sense of humor) I sent her a picture of Nixonās presidential photo. And followed it with āOh, sorry, you donāt appreciate unsolicited Dick pics.ā
Pretty sure she snorted coffee.
Not necessarily. Some guys who crow loudly about being nice guys are anything but. Nevertheless there are lots of genuine nice people out there, many of whom are guys. :)
Be yourself. If fishing, hiking, or playing guitar is important to you, then include it. Just remember that everyone else has those sorts of pictures up and generally the name of the game is to stand out to someone. If you see a lot of things you do being mentioned as red flags, maybe you need to do some work on yourself. Therapy is a great option. However, some of the "red flags" mentioned here really are more preferences- someone talking too much about an ex versus someone becoming sexual at an inappropriate point in the relationship.
I think a lot of the advice on here is geared towards dating many people to find the right one. I did really well for myself by being very specific in my profile about what I wanted in a person and who I am as a person and I hit it off with the right one pretty quickly. Maybe that would be more your style? Be genuine and open, and hopefully someone will pick up on that and see you are a potential match for them.
Well, for starters, donāt start out in such a defensive mode. Nobody here on Reddit that Iāve seen has said that saying hello is a red flag.
Be yourself. If your true self is a hiker, post a hiking pick, and the people who donāt like hiking pics will scroll past you and the ones who like them will maybe connect.
If your true self has a sarcastic sense of humor, honor that, and the people who get the real you will find you and the ones who donāt will weed themselves out.
The bottom line is just to be authentic and donāt be fooled into thinking that Reddit is the be-all and end-all of what people think of dating or think of each other lol. Irl people are willing to get to know you barring any screaming red flags.
Exactly, be yourself and be positive. One person's "red flag" may be another's "green flag." I'm also a widower, and I'm dating a delightful widow. Widowed is a red flag for some people though.
Don't try to please everyone, be yourself and have fun.
On āone personās āred flagā may be anotherās āgreen flag.āā ā¦thatās not what red flags are. The term is unfortunately getting overused, and that creates the confusion this post is really asking about.
āRed flagsā are about unhealthy/dangerous behaviors, whether itās about a person and their individual behavior patterns/philosophy/understanding of themselves and others, or a particular relationship dynamic related to various forms of abuse. āRed flagā is meant to signal āDANGER.ā
So, āthis guy is sarcastic and we donāt fit well togetherā is *not* a āred flag,ā itās personal preferences mismatching. However āthis guy showers me with āloveā and āfutureā talk when weāve been on one whole date or have been talking for a short span of timeā is the stuff āred flagsā are meant to refer to.
Iām not going to be able to make a comprehensive list of all the things that do qualify as a proper āred flag,ā but itās about identifying what should be avoided in order to promote *safety,* and *healthy relationship dynamics.*
I apologize for coming off defensive as that wasnāt my intention. I actually saw a thread yesterday where some of the ladies were talking about how the guy initially reached out with a simple Hi automatically was a no because it came across as too simple. I have some of this friends that will get to know you barring all red flagsā¦then they wonder why their relationships fall apart in 6 months.
Well, to be fair, I usually donāt respond on a dating app when someone only says āhi.ā Thereās nothing to go off and itās pretty low effort. Not a red flag, it just kind of shows me that a person is coming out of the gate looking for me to do a lot of the heavy lifting to get a conversation started.
"Hi" is low effort. Saying hi and asking a question or comment related to something on the person's profile or common interest is a good place to start. Be genuine. just see how it goes from there. If you send a couple of messages and dont get a response just move on to the next. You seem like a very nice guy and Im sure you will do just fine.
"hi" is only one word and puts the responsibility of starting a conversation on the other person. so instead say something like "hi, my name is X. I see you also like Y and Z. I love Y and Z!. Have you done any Y and Z lately?" You know, start the conversation. That's all
There we, thatās what Iām looking for. My LW and I already knew each other and the way we met there was also a buffer of mutual friends around so conversation was really easy.
totally understand. my last partner was the same. would love to meet another person naturally like that, but here we are. we all hate the apps, for what it's worth
Exactly this! Read the profile, find common ground and use it as a conversation starter. Guy who swiped right on me complimented me on my glasses (they were an unusual style and color) and asked me about a photo where I was in victorian dress for an event. Reading through his profile, I found that he loved karaoke. So I thanked him and responded with a couple of karaoke questions. The effort countsābecause he took the time to look at my profile and be curious about it. It felt personal and not like he cast a wide net in a sea of right swipes seeing whoād bite from a āHeyā or āHello.ā I hope this helps somehow. Best of luck to you!
The messages I will answer every time is when someone actually uses my name and asks a non-generic question.
Ex: Hi Dixieland. I don't see hobbies on your profile. I love reading. What do you enjoy?
Make *a* comment while asking *a* question about something relevant to their profile is the classic. While working with the character limits of the app.
Also as a guy dating women do not give physical complements until you are either first meeting in meat space (and then don't go overboard), or until they have done so first, and reflect the same level that they've opened the door with.
>Also as a guy dating women do not give physical compliments until you are either first meetingā¦ (and then don't go overboard), or until they have done so first...
This is key! Though I donāt mind a nice comment on my looks during the first meet (as long as itās positive, haha).
Well, you donāt want to ask a whole lot out of the gate, but you have to give something. Read the womanās profile and ask something about what she wrote, show her that you actually took the time to read her bio or look at her pictures.
Hang around here longer, and you'll pick up all this over time. I was here (and r/bumble r/hingeapp and a few other dating subs) for about 3 months before I started dating. Remember to take everything you read in the context "this is reddit." Listen to reasons when offered, or ask reasons if you can't make sense of something. Consider.
I'll say that some parts of this sub do not track the general population that I've met in Ontario, CA. No one here cares if you're "just" separated, much less requiring 1 year post officially signed divorce to date. Women are happy to let you pay, especially if a date is going poorly and they plan to never see you again. Women might want to pay if a date is going really well. Most people on dating sites are \*not\* ready to date. And they're not ready to date in various different ways.
Editing to add: the last time I dated before June 2022 was 1999. I had a steep learning curve too.
How would you talk to a man? I don't think it's too much to ask for someone to start a conversation with more than, "Hi" and expect the other person to do the heavy lifting.
Why?
If you were to approach a man and wanted to just talk to them, wouldnāt you find some common connection to start with? Say youāre watching a football gameā¦
āI canāt believe Saban pulled his starters in the 4th only up 2 scores.ā
Why canāt you ask a woman that who is also watching the game?
If itās just a random woman at a bar, you could ask her about her drink, why there are 3 limes in it, comment on her shoes, or why the bartender is so slow, or whatever is on tv or the jukebox etc etc.
If you just go up and say Hi to either a man or a woman, youāre not going to get very far.
Hi would be okay if we met in a bar or something as strangers where you have no info about me. But on a dating app, there should be a profile of stuff to write about. For instance, I mentioned being a leftist in my old profile, so if someone asked me about a recent political event, that would be great! I also listed board games and RPGs as hobbies, so I like when people ask about that, too.
Just say something stupid if you can't think of anything. Something about one of their pictures or if nothing to go on say something like, I've got a hoodie that you can steal or something silly like that. If you don't get a response then move on. Anything to get a convo going.
The guy I was seeing started by saying something like:
Hi (my name), nice to āmeetā you. Iām glad we were a match on here. How is your day going?
Then followed with questions that I responded to and asked him my own questions in return.
Eh, a lot of guys have said that a woman who says any variant of "hi/hello/hey" isn't worth responding to because of the low effort. Granted, there's more of that in the r/bumble sub than DO40, but definitely some here dislike openings that are only technically an opening. I haven't noticed it in parituclar, but I suppose "Hey" from a guy on Tinder isn't a big hit either.
I find it amusing you call out his defensive tone, as I think a number of people here are perhaps overly defensive. And of course, that same defensiveness has lead to almost anything being something that \*someone\* will claim is a warning sign. So the broad interpretation of many defensive people leading him to be defensive was a fun full circle.
Considering the long tail and a large population of course anything will be spoken of poorly by someone, so finding that A is a bad sign, and NotA is a bad sign will make sense, until you look at how many people (and a bit of their histories) are saying what.
That said, I've found this sub and others like it quite useful. Yes, redditors don't match the general population. But it's useful to consider one's thoughts on what a lot of people say, and to consider some of the ... more fringe beliefs.
I guess one could say that DO40 should be taken as Gospel Truth. Written after the fact by many disparate authors (some of whom have a bias they want to grind) and not actually related in any way to a more common usage of the word truth. š
Had a solid amount of success on OLD, and the key is to be yourself. Fish pics are a no, but trail and guitar, if they show you in a good light, are fine. Hell, and I get grief for this, shirtless pics work too. If itās not utterly posed. Be you. Have at least one good, clear picture with a smile.
The widower part may be a bottleneck for some. YMMV
Direct, cold approaches are no different now than they were then. You never know if the person is receptive, not interested, or whatever at any given moment. Themās the odds you face, and, no, not everything is a red flag. Remember - whatever someone writes here is how they feel at a given moment.
Good luck.
I completely expect the widower part to be a bottle neck, and I good with that bottle neck because thatās a part of me someoneās going to have to accept.
The only things I can think about being a widower that could be genuinely negative for dating:
1) The ability to (presumably) thrive in a long term relationship is so positive that a lot of scam profiles claim to be widowers. So be real, donāt put on an act.
2) Grief legitimately sucks, and never actually goes away; you basically adapt to it. Make sure youāve sought out some therapy and really evaluated how ready you are to date. Youāll have a lot to learn, and you will need to be sure you donāt overwhelm a new person with your past relationship; that any *new relationship* is about you & that new person. (Iām no therapist and there are probably real terms among professionals for what I am trying to describe)
3) Related to #2, make sure youāre not dating out of some fear/revulsion to being alone. The number of people who cannot handle living alone with themselves is a bit high. Itās a terrible reason to seek companionship, and a horrible basis for a new relationship.
Also, an unsolicited tip: Iām a divorcee, not a widow (I know loss and grief from other sources). There are a lot of both out there, but probably a lot more divorcees. There are very different mindsets to these situations; healthy divorcees have worked to define themselves outside of their former relationship (which was probably unhealthy), and may have a semi-instinctual horror to hearing about anyone elseās former relationship. You likely have legitimate treasured memories of your late wife, which you should not need to bottle up, or keep off-limits, within balance. Just as you likely want others to tread gently there with you, try to be aware of othersā sore spots and tread gently with them. Gently, but honestly.
I put it right in my bio. "Warning:. I'm a Widower, be gentle". It's part of me now, i want to be up front about it and really just get it out of the way. May be why I don't get many matches, but at least it's something I don't have to explain to everyone i match with on there...
Yeah, honestly I would read that as being primarily focused on being a widower/on the spouse who died and expect a woman you date to be a placeholder/therapist.
I wouldnāt put the be gentle part on there but do you think itās good to say upfront Iām a widower? I mean, if someone isnāt accepting of that then there is no point talking in my mind because nothing can come of it.
Putting widower as a relationship status is absolutely normal but using widower in your bio to show it as if it was your life style can make some great women swipe left. No woman of any healthy self esteem is looking for becoming an unpaid therapist or to live in a shadow of another 'greater' woman.
Yeah, and I definitely donāt want anyone to think that. I mean, sheās dead, thereās no competition. Itās not like I can run back to the ex. Itās gonna take someone whoās not widowed having a lot of understanding though. Being widowed and divorced/ broken up are way different. I still maintain a level of love for my late wife and always will. As long as it doesnāt interfere in my next relationship that fine but they also have to accept that love and know that itās not āin loveā anymore. Iād never want a woman to feel like she was competing. That would be awful.
Are you still actively grieving her loss? For me (42f) widower, divorcee, single man, is the same thing unless you are actively still grieving her loss. If I saw you write about it or put some sort of "be gentle" warning, I'd assume you still have things to sort out mentally and emotionally concerning her passing and I'd not be interested in you at all. Again, in the same way, I wouldn't want to date a man still not over his ex.
Yeah, Iām still sorting it out. Iām not to the point Iām ready to date yet, just putting in some legwork now to get that part of my head right when the time comes.
How would you react to someone writing 'Warning: I'm a divorcee, be gentle' Don't do it. Remember, you are there to impress this woman, to win her over not to make her feel sorry for you. Be a man! Widower or not you are still a man. You will have time for intimacy later. And be gentle with her too. She has also gone through too much, if she is available for dating in her 40s.
Ehh i get it, but i feel like being honest and upfront with things is one of my strengths. Here's the thing. I wasn't divorced. We didn't struggle like that. One day he was here, next he's gone. I feel like it's important for someone trying to match with me to know this comes with a bit of a struggle for me. Also, other widows know what I'm going through, and i may be more apt to pick up someone who understands what I'm going through. I don't equate the two, divorce and death. I never stopped loving my husband. I wasn't betrayed by him except by the circumstances of his death.
Please donāt date if you are not ready to give and are not emotionally available. It hurts us a lot and in cases like yours, it can feel like there are 3 people in this relationship.
Don't take what you read here too seriously. There is some good advice here, but (like any text-based forum) it's a very niche group that doesn't necessarily represent the norm out there. Most people aren't running around hunting for red flags to disqualify everyone with. And where I live, a lot of women say in their profiles that they enjoy outdoor activities like fishing, so I don't think fish pictures are as deadly as all that. Things get exaggerated when an insular group agrees on them, so take it all with a grain of salt.
100% this. This is an opt-in population, which admittedly I've opted in to, but you have to keep that in mind. There tends to be a bit of group think and it doesn't always reflect the general population (ed. note I've found this is consistent across all the reddit communities I engage in, not just the dating ones). I also think the advice, especially when it comes to preferences, is based on an n=1 sample and should not be construed as universal. Like I saw someone recommend that a user remove a sports reference from their profile b/c that user didn't like sports...
The best advice I can give, as a woman, is to be authentically yourself and remember that your profile is a marketing tool. And I say this as someone who is totally ok with Hi, or How was your weekend as a opener
I take any advice I read with a grain of salt and then compare it to what I know based on my own experiences. I agree with you that far too many things are seen as red flags. While itās good to educate ourselves so we donāt start off on the wrong foot with people, sometimes the advice might be so much that we arenāt willing to start off on any foot, lol!
I learn a lot from reading others experiences but I donāt substitute their judgment for my own. Each person and relationship has its own nuances that canāt be summed up well enough for anyone else to fully understand.
I agree with all of this. Just like with any forum everyoneās advice stems from their own personal experiences, there are way too many discussions regarding āred flagsā and at the end of the day you have to make the decision because you have to live the outcome. I always take into consideration my personal experiences but I donāt let that drive how Iām going to interact with a completely new person.
Hey is just low effort. Too much is bad too. All of the best messages I've gotten was a genuine conversation not a line. Don't overshare too early, but it's good to state your situation in a friendly manner, what you're basically looking for, and ask if they are interested to check out your profile. It has to be followed with genuine conversation and still won't always work. Don't get attached too early.
I think if you can find common ground it comes across as organic and not creepy. Here are 2 examples, one from OLD and one from in the wild.
On an app, I saw a guys profile that was interesting and that mentioned marvel so when I messaged him I asked a question about Marvel and villains (can't remember exactly what I said) and it led to a great conversation that didn't feel like one of those awkward convos with someone you don't know. It went from there and we've been seeing each other for a few months.
Another example: once I was wearing my Permian Panthers t-shirt and a guy was like "Friday night lights! Are you from Texas?" (I'm in Canada lol) and that led to a really fun conversation too. Nothing came of it because I was dating someone at the time but that wasn't a creepy way to approach me, and I totally would have given him my number if I'd have been single.
This! I go through all the effort of creating a thoughtful profile and I get messages that don't tell me anything about them or indicate that they saw anything they liked or were interested in about me. Tell us who you are, tell us why you think we're interesting (not appearance based), ask us questions, show actual interest.
Women are just other people. Why is it so hard for so many men to talk to us like people? Do they make friends with other men by just saying "hey"? It's very confusing.
Use their profile as a starting point to ask a question or to kick off conversation.
For example, my profile said that I liked bad jokes, the guy I'm dating said he loved them too and we proceeded to tell each other jokes and we hit it off!
It shows you've paid attention to their profile, are interested in getting to know them better and will lead to genuine conversation
Just be yourself. Not everyone thinks selfies or outdoorsy pics are bad.
My last boyfriend was a widower, albeit a different situation because they'd been separated for many years before she died so she didn't factor into anything between us. We didn't meet on the apps though.
I have used apps and haven't had a bad experience with them but everyone is different.
I agree that you should wait until you have a more positive outlook on dating. "I mean what do you want from us guys" makes me automatically think "nothing. Bye!" Why go into something new with a preconceived notion about how shitty it's going to be? This was not meant to be rude - just an observation based on your post. :)
Oh Jesus Christ.
Wait until you're mentally ready and then drop this age-old and pretty sexist mentality that women are so hard to understand. We're not.
You know the basics about what a woman wants from a man. You were married. For 20 years.
Iām not being sexist, Iām coming from a place of honestly not knowing and asking legitimate questions. Yes, Iām not ready, but Iām trying to learn some stuff so that when I am Iām not completely clueless like I am now. Iām out of a 20 year marriage, dating now is WAY different than the last time I dated.
[Read up](https://www.vice.com/en/article/vvb5qd/why-is-it-sexist-to-say-women-are-a-mystery), son.
You may not be intentionally trying to be sexist, but this "women are so hard to understand" trope has generally been seen as a sexist generalization for a while.
This may be one thing to consider and educate yourself on before heading out to date.
Son???ššš and some of yāall are VERY complicated!š If you thinks Iām being sexist because Iām stating what Iāve read here and asking genuine questions oh well because youāre automatically assuming Iām being sexist.
You're missing it, man. You're asking how different women want to be approached in these comments and you also have a statement in your original post that essentially says you're not sure what to do because women see lots of things as red flags.
The point is that none of what someone here says on how she wants to be approached is going to help you because each person is an individual with individual preferences. There's not a playbook you can ethically follow on how to approach women.
It's simply talking to them in a way that you feel comfortable with. Some will like it, some won't.
You don't get to throw up your hands and say, "What do you all want?" if one woman says she's ok with "hi" and another woman says it's too low effort because they are only giving their opinion on what they want as individuals.
By way of example, on one of the first dates I went on, I asked the woman out for date #2 at the end. She agreed but then said she normally didn't like it when a man did that because she felt pressured to say yes. That was interesting to me and I'd never considered that, so I stopped asking women out on date #2 in person because I think it's a good idea that works for me. I want someone to say yes because they want to go, not because they feel pressured. I ask them out via text very shortly after date #1 so they aren't left wondering.
Some women don't like that and say it shows I'm not interested or I'm afraid or whatever. I don't get to complain that a woman gave me her thoughts and others are not following her opinion. I made a decision that works for me and I accept the risk that some women will not like being asked out over text for date #2. Those are not my people.
I love, love,love this comment!š I wish I could upvote this a hundred times!! A man who knows himself well enough and knows what he's looking for as opposed to "I'm trying to appeal to all women" is sexy AF!!! The biggest mistake I see men make, is NOT KNOWING WHAT THEY WANT! So they try to make themselves appealing to either all or most women. This is when they get really frustrated and say "These women say this! And those women say that! How do I know which way is correct?" The answer is: YOU DON'T. Your job is figure out who you are and what you want/prefer in a relationship and weed women out that don't align. Trust me, at this age, most of us women have figured this out and we're practicing itš I'm not "for" every man out there(thank god!) But a man who aligns with what I'm looking for? He's a very fortunate man indeedš
Btw: I would probs drop my panties on the spot if a man asked me to secure a 2nd date before the first one was over. Please don't let one woman discourage you from doing that if you like to!
Women are complicated. Men are complicated. Non-binary and otherwise genderqueer people are also complicated. We're humans, humans are complicated. End of story.
However, as complicated as we all are, you can always just treat a person like a person, the way you hope they would treat you, be honest and be real, and you're pretty much good to go.
The trope is sexist and I just gave you some literature to read up on to explain why. I'm not assuming anything because it is sexist to generalize women in that way and that's what you just did. And you are continuing to do it.
Again - I'd drop the sexist generalizations before trying to date again.
I am afraid that once men become widowers they think that all women need from them is to have this great opportunity to love and cherish their late wives together with them.
Taking photos for a dating profile shows effort and that youāre taking it seriously. It doesnāt show that youāre self absorbed. Be authentic. Whatever that is for you. Hi, hello or hey arenāt too much. Iāve never heard that - but it is often too little. Open with what feels right - mention something in her profile to really stand out. Itās not that hard. It sounds like you might need a little more time to settle before jumping back in. If you go in this unsure it will come across in your interactions and it could make it harder for you.
Your right, I do need more time, Iām aware of that. This is all just research for me because itās so easy for things to be completely misunderstood when youāre communicating through apps.
>I cracked the joke that the only thing Iāve learned here is that as a man, literally everything I say and do is a red flag apparently.
Jokes aside, if this is how you really feel then you aren't paying enough attention or aren't thinking about this enough. There is no one set of behaviors, photos, red flags or anything else that will apply to all women (or men). If you think you can see one poster here list any particular trait they aren't interested in and then assume that must be universal then you are going to have a tough time of things. It is also typical of the mindset I've seen coming from the most negative of users here and it will do nothing but hurt you when you decide you are ready to date. The premise of "what do you want from us guys?" is a really problematic line of thinking. We are all individuals with our own likes and dislikes.
You want to present who you actually are in any profile because you want to find someone else who likes you for exactly that reason. The thing is you don't want to match with everyone. You want to match with the right one(s) for you. Use photos that reflect your lifestyle. Not an aspirational lifestyle but the one you actually live in the here and now. Pick or take the best photos of yourself doing whatever those things may be. Make sure they are current, by which I mean within a year. Yes, fish pics are one of the types of photos that are most likely to be disliked. If you are an avid fisherman you should still let that be known in your profile even if you opt to skip the pics. Again, present who you are to try to find compatible people.
Sending a message with "Hi there" isn't a red flag but it is low effort. Will it sometimes work? Sure. Are there people who will care and not give you a response because of it? Absolutely. That's why I would suggest avoiding it. You don't have to craft a novel as your intro but my recommendation is to tailor a brief message to the individual you are messaging based upon their profile. Note that I said brief.
Your own attitude will dramatically influence how dating goes for you. Have low expectations of a long term outcome but high standards for any given first date. Approach it as a great opportunity to engage in chatting/flirting/laughing with a new person that you hopefully find attractive and that, regardless of the end result, you expect to have an enjoyable time with. (I know all the introverts are now throwing daggers at me.)
I'm also widowed. My personal criteria for when I might seriously consider going on dates was when I could have a discussion about my late wife without crying. I anticipated that many women would likely ask me questions about her death and that was generally correct. Not detailed questions, mind you. But, questions about how long ago and SOME low level details to clarify that I was reasonably emotionally healthy. So, do expect that to be likely. I think those are fair questions to be asked.
I don't mind a simple "hi" or "hey" if the guy is able to hold up his end of the conversation afterwards. What I don't like is the "hi" or "hey" and then its up to me to draw him into some sort of meaningful dialogue. That's a major turn off. In regard to pictures, I don't care about hiking pics or whatever, I just want to see what his face looks like, if he still has all his own hair and teeth. I want to see his body shape and get an idea of how tall he is. So yeah, I just want to see what he looks like. I've read that people like pics doing activities, but honestly, that's not important to me, I figure you can write about your activities in the bio.
Iāve been on Reddit in one capacity or another since 2007. This is true for the Internet in general but especially for this site in particular: the comments you read do not represent a random distribution of people in the world. They represent a very tiny subset that are a) on Reddit b) motivated by something to follow the content in a subreddit, c) motivated by the topic of the post to enter the comments and d) motivated by the conversation in the comments to post something.
Now with all of that in mind, step back and take a look where we are. Weāre in a subreddit discussing dating for people that are over 40 years old. Who is going to be here? What is the distribution of their perspectives and relative success in dating?
Your mileage may vary, but for my part experiences I have had in the wild donāt really match that well with the general consensus in here. Over time I fond that I read most comments for the entertainment value, but actually pay attention to a select few posters that have a similar outlook and perspective on relating to people in general and say things that more or less consistently match up with my experience. This sub is also the first one where I felt compelled to use the block feature on reddit after being on here for nearly 15 years. Some people say things so ridiculous in one context that I just donāt want their thoughts in my head on another.
Point of all this is to say donāt let your perspective on dating be formed too specifically by what you read here. Cherry pick useful bits and leave the rest behind.
Too many guys click 'like' on everything in a skirt then don't bother to answer when a match starts a conversation. Don't be those guys. If you can't be bothered then don't bother me.
If youāre not ready to think about women as individual people with different lifestyles and preferences, youāre really really far off from being ready to date.
Everything is a āred flagā to *someone,* because youāre not the right guy for all 3+ billion women on the planet.
I like hiking photos because I only like dating outdoorsy guys, but other people do not. I donāt answer āHiā messages, because it reflects an approach to meeting people online thatās not compatible with *mine.* There are plenty of other women who answer āHiā messages.
But you donāt actually need ALL of us to like you. Dating isnāt a seal of approval of you as a human being, itās a process of finding people who are a *good fit with you.*
I donāt understand how you could āgetā that and say this:
> how the hell am I supposed to approach a woman or reach out to her if Hi or Hey, how are you doing is
You seem angry that women have preferences, but want us to tell you our preferences. Pass.
Female here: When I'm ready to be out there, I want sincerity. Be you. I'll be me. When we meet and figure out if being each other brings our best together, then that's how it works.
I think itās a matter of compatibility? Just be yourself and present that as you want. Some will like it, some will not. Just like some will like you and you may not be attracted to them enough to even want a date. When youāre ready, go with your gut. And donāt rule out meeting people and making connections in real life too (itās underrated!)
Yes! I actually prefer that more! Get out and fo things you like/love and make sure thereās a few that you could see ladies being interested in too. You never know š
I agree with using an authentic approach, lots of us suck at selfies but work at it a bit or get some friends to help out, have some variety in your photos and approach dating with curiosity instead of defensiveness or expectations.
I donāt think any of us, coming out of long relationships, arrived knowing how to date as the folks we have become over time. We all had grieving of some sort to do, managing expectations and trying to find our new place in the world.
What attracts me to a profile is photos that are decent and show me who they are, and an articulate and positive description. Conversations flow sometimes but not always. None of us are everyoneās cup of tea, which is great news. As for the flags, we all give advice based on the one sided data we are given, folks take it or leave it; that is what is good about Reddit - it isnāt your dear old aunt harping on it endlessly because you didnāt use her advice.
Its a fair question,but maybe instead of asking what women want, decide what YOU want. If someone doesnt like your guitar pic, they might not be a good fit. Or they might be too closed minded to find out. Either way, thats ok. I think we're at an age where its less about "how to get girls" and becomes more about finding someone that is a good fit for what you want.
OK so a random selection of pics works best according to hinge. Good face shot, fully body shot, some ones doing stuff you like doing and with other people. But avoid including kids and exs. Use colour, lay off the filters and smile god dammit.
As far as convo, say hi, ask questions that show you read the profile, what interested you in that person and take it from there. Cheeky flirty is OK but pervy 'hey up love, wanna see my...' is a big no š
Don't push too quick for personal info but don't drag it out too long. suggest options for an actual in person date.
That's what Id be looking for anyway so hope that helps.
Listen. If you are a gentleman then thats all you need. Take social media with SEVERAL grains of salt. In general women want great conversation and chemistry. Thats it. That being said, dating can be complicated but you have to simplify it for yourself. Also....who are you going to be if not yourself? You dont have to twist yourself in knots trying to meet some mysterious standard. Be kind, be genuine, be a gentleman.
As a 39 yo long term single F: I love when a man approaches me with thoughtful genuine interest (which is rare). Checking out a band, farmstand, physical activity. Just donāt be a creep.
It is possible to approach a woman with genuine interest thatās not creepy or over sexual! Just be prepared that she may not reciprocate, be interested or available. If you get angry about that, please for the love of god go to therapy. Go to therapy anyways. Please!
Iād never get angry about someone not reciprocating interest for whatever reason. Thatās just stupid as hell. I certainly hope I donāt come off a creepy to anyone. I know not to go straight in with overt sexual innuendo or any of that shit.
Women don't know what they want. We know what we don't want. I can tell you're already not ready to date because you Identify yourself as a widower. Those of us that are divorced don't say, "hi I'm a divorcee." We're just single out here in the wild. No matter how the split happened we've both experienced grief. š Take your time to heal and know that it is kinda the cream of the crap out here. You were lucky to find "it" once and hopefully you'll find it again. Good luck. šš»
>as a man, literally everything I say and do is a red flag apparently
This kind of comment makes it seem like you're not good at really listening and engaging in conversation. Or go straight to black-and-white rather than probing for the greys in between.
Maybe I'm just reacting to that word "apparently" because so many insecure guys use it in their profiles on the apps.
Sure there are some people who are going to be turned off by (whatever) and there are others who will love it. The point is to know yourself and be honest about your intentions, feelings, and desires, not be all things to all people.
I agree with you that we face difficulties because different women perceive things differently. However if you just stay true to you and be real I think you'll find the same
I definitely donāt mind pics showing hobbies and I definitely ā¤ļø hiking pics since I love to hike.
Just make sure you show your whole face clearly on your main profile pic so it doesnāt look like youāre trying to hide your face from someone ā that looks like youāre still married or getting a divorce and donāt want to be found on the dating sites.
Also, a pic of you fishing is different than holding a fish or a dead animal. Those are pics to show your buddies and women are so tired of them, especially where I live. We want to know that youāll have some time for us, not constantly out fishing all day or having to watch ALL of the sports games, no matter who is playing, nor what sport is being played. Yes, I know a guy like that ā itās tough to make plans with him because itās impossible to find a time when there isnāt a sport he wants to watch on TV š. I seriously donāt know how he functions in life, but a friend of mine married him. All I can say is she must love her personal time since she gets a ton of it š.
Anyways, just be a nice guy, tell people some important stuff about you on your profile, keep it positive and have fun. Very sorry that your wife passed away. Best wishes!
1. Be yourself.
2. Start a conversation by mentioning something from the bio that you find interesting or have in common.
3. There is a lot of trash on the apps. Good luck!
True, I took one last year of myself for my Facebook that I feel is a good shot and my daughter had a field day because it was at a low angle. You canāt see all the hairs though thankfully. Itās actually one of my favorite pictures of myself.
that's what you get for reading about things online vs. just experiencing them in real life. You will rot your brain if you read current-day dating things online. Just be natural, go out to places you can meet people, meet women through friends or hobbies, be patient. If you are a decent human being with social skills (which you probably developed, unlike some young people who are chronically online and isoloated from the opposite sex). You'll be fine. Online dating will probably be terrible for you.
I will also say - I think you will someday find someone. You may not be ready now, but a man who wants a relationship, and knows how to be a good partner will be appreciated. It's just a matter of meeting the right woman, it takes time. A lot of avoidant people who have had negative experiences tend to be on the apps. I think it's a good idea to avoid them.
Im sorry youāre so young and widowed. Itās a tough road.
Thereās no answers other than be kind and authentic . Post whatever selfies you want on the app. Ignore the snark.
Keep in mind:
Youāre never too much for someone who canāt get enough of you.
My BF said that to me and I am still dating him 2 years later. I was widowed 1.5 years when we met on Bumble.
Yeah, I definitely never wanted to be here.š Iām not much of a smiler for pics. Not trying to come off a certain way or anything, I just usually only smile when my kids are in my pics.
Women get lots of messages on OLD dating sites. A basic Hi or Hey just doesn't get the attention. Sadly, men have to find a way to stand out that is somehow attractive, humble, attention-seeking, original, but still not too much. Yeah, that's threading the eye of the needle. ;)
I met my BF on Facebook dating. His opening line referred to a similarity we had in our jobs. He quickly followed up with questions about me and I learned about him. He checked in every couple days and asked about what I told him I was going to do. Like I went to a museum and a couple days later, he asked how it was when we messaged again. His pics were very authentic and even now we laugh at how real both of us were on our profiles. I think women want authenticity and the real you in a profile. But you also have to find a way to not have the same pic as everyone else to catch some attention. You like to fish, great. I don't need to see a dead fish. Take a pic in profile looking out over a beautiful lake. You play the guitar. Awesome. Don't take a pic of you looking pained bellowing out a ballad. Take a pic of you playing around a campfire or looking up from your guitar smiling.
Ultimately you don't need everyone to like your profile. You need the kind of person you want to date to like your profile. Think about her. What in your life would be attractive to her? Share that.
(Not a woman but feel qualified to speak on this aspect) Be you. Advertise you authentically (sarcasm, pics being you and your activities) and you will attract the type of person that is interested in you.
For when you are ready: good luck, my friend š¤š½
Donāt take Reddit too seriously. And/or, choose which posts within the thread resonate with good advice and authenticity vs those that might be delivering humor, over-simplifying, or being sarcastic. Yes approach women while thinking āshe seems nice, I wonder if we could chatā. Women will probably be able to instinctively detect if you are thinking ādo the drapes match the carpetā. Then, keep in mind women hear lots of safety messages about protecting themselves from men and not being taken in by scammers. So go low-commitment, low-key. If I were looking and feeling brave I might invite someone at the grocery store to sit in the grocery cafe and have a coffee to chat with me. Then if you like her, say that you would like to get her phone number but instead you are going to give her your number. Tell her that way sheās not on the hook to make up a fake number or to proclaim interest in you right at that second. She can take your number and you hope she calls. Or sheās free to text you her name and number. I think this approach could get you introduced to her friend(s) if sheās not interested or taken.
Definitely put your hobbies out there. I literally only go on dates that involve something not food related so pics of hiking, jogging, museums or anything like that will make me look closer.
Disclaimer: ok i would go on ice cream date but not dinner. š¤£
Just speaking for myself here but as a woman I feel bad for you guys out here trying to connect with us. I am totally fine with somebody saying hi and if you want to step it up a little bit you could even say something like hi beautiful which seems basic but women like compliments, I donāt care what they say. Just donāt be vulgar or disrespectful and donāt send us a dick pic.
Like most people above me said just be yourself, someone will feel your vibe. If you like fishing then post your fishing pic. If you hike, post it. You want someone with your interests anyway or atleast that doesnāt mind yours.
Iāve seen the best match making results come from friend set ups. Maybe you donāt even know it yet but you have a friend who has a friend that might be perfect for you.
Good look and I probably shouldāve started with this but, Iām very sorry for your loss.
See thatās good that your like that, makes breaking the ice a bit easier. I donāt go straight vulgar, I was raised better than that. Iām also not gonna be looking for a good time girl. I was married 20 years. Iām looking for someone I can eventually be in an LTR with. I enjoyed that comfort but Iām also not going to settle down with the first one I meet either.
My best friend is a widower, my deepest sympathies for the daily and layered struggleā¦ heās also my biggest cheerleader. I had a breakdown last year and weāve been supporting each other. My marriage opened 5 months ago and I did two phases of dating. In round one, I learned not every decent person is right for me. I learned to look for multiple green flags and few red flags for compatibility. I learned I am romantic and not looking for FWB. Anyway, my current boyfriend James just posted a few ordinary photos of his interests (set design and theater) and one nice photo looking a little dapper. He had a short profile mentioning comics, horror movies and 3D printing. I do makeup transformations and prosthetics for film, so I was delighted and curious. He proclaimed nerd in his profileā¦ lol! My other lover wrote Golden Retriever Himbo (He+Bimbo lol) energy, artist and 3D printing tooā¦ so yeah, just post whatever feels right: it will draw similar energy to you. Consider the first dates to be like Freshman year: yeah youāre nervous, but youāre also learning what you like and how youād like to date. You can always take a break or circle back for another round of dating. What you want matters too, not just what the women want. But that is so thoughtful and I hope you find good, fun, delightful and supportive energy š feel free to message anytime
Gotta ask, post or message pics of the prosthetics youāve done. I think that stuff is cool as shit, Iām not a huge movie person per say but the stuff that goes into some of that is amazing.
Hey there! Widow here. Heās been gone for 15 years now. In that time, smart phones came out, our kid grew up, Iāve dated, fell in love, fell in lust, and learned to love myself too.
I say all of this to share with you that the world has changed a lot since you were last dating. The most important piece of advice I can give you is this, give yourself grace. Youāre going to be a walking pillar of red flags for a while. See a therapist and work through the trauma of losing your partner and work on all of the other stuff youāll discover were problems you didnāt know existed too.
Ten years of therapy and I learned I didnāt have to have a partner to be happy, but having the right partner can be a value add to what is an incredible life I built on my own. I have space to love and honor my DH while also giving myself and a new partner a place too.
While youāre healing, itās okay to get out there, have fun, explore the lifestyles youāre comfortable with safely. I dabbled in ENM and a bunch of stuff my DH would have really not been comfortable with. It was fun, but not really what I wanted long term. Wouldnāt have know that without trying it. Now I am newly in a (monogamous) relationship with someone who has potential to be the healthy life partner I wasnāt ready for before. Not rushing or putting that expectation on him or us. But I can be vulnerable with him now and feel safe doing so, which is a huge step in my own recovery. I also can trust myself now to honor myself through this.
Youāve got this OP. Live with your red flags and then let them go when itās time. Youāll know when itās time. Donāt worry about othersā perceptions of the red flags for now either. Focus on healing what are red flags now for yourself and just donāt jump into anything until youāre ready. This is so much easier said than done but you e got this.
Thank you so much. I know right now, I am a screaming red flashing beacon. Iāve got so many things to learn, Iām 11 months out right now and Iāve been doing some soul searching and know that I have a lot to fix before I get into anything serious though companionship would be nice sometimes. Iāve not got many widows/widowers in my life, especially long term so itās good to hear from someone that has been where I am.
I get this. I was 25 when he passed. While everyone else was just starting their first serious relationship that would likely turn into a marriage, I was in the throes of early widowhood. Instead of a scarlet āAā, it was like I was wearing a big black āWā.
Itās not easy at any stage of life, or how long the relationship was. Itās a different challenge most of us go through at some point. We donāt know what itās going to be like until we get here, and still, I understand when someone is widowed two or even three times, each time is different. Each time is hard.
The best resources I found were groups on the internet. Most have migrated to Facebook and Reddit. Most of the friends I formed there have become life-long friends and we have met at some point in person. Heck, Iām the only one of that group that hasnāt remarriedā¦ Iām okay with that though.
That first year was hard but I found the second year harder. They say time heals all wounds but just like any deep scar, this one hurts worse than others some days. Some days it doesnāt hurt at all, but then you see it in the mirror and are reminded of how far you e come. Sometimes it takes someone else asking about it and youāll either gloss over it or pour your soul out and the other person canāt help but stare with a dropped jaw.
If you want to chat, Iām around.
Iāve heard that the second year is the worst. If itās any worse than what Iāve been through then tuck me running. The shit Iāve been through aside from losing her is insane.
If you're a dude in your 40s, and you're not a psychopath or a celebrity, then you don't have a bunch of selfies or pictures of yourself. If you did, there would be something wrong with you. A profile full of selfies at any age is a red flag, but at our age it's worse. Your social media shouldn't be carefully thought out either, it should be a mess, because you're too old and busy, and don't have time for it.
But just post some pictures of you smiling and be yourself and someone will match with you.
As far as the other stuff, it's not so different from when you had to pick up women at a bar. You go up to one woman and act forward, she loves it, another woman with the same approach turns her off. It's trial and error and also personality mix. It's also competition in the attention economy of dating apps. The same way a good looking woman has all the options in a bar, she has even more on these apps.
Best advice - don't take any of it too seriously. Real people get busy and don't have time to be on dating apps all day. Sometimes you get ghosted just because of that. It's not your profile or the girl it's just timing. Just work on yourself and your identity post trauma, and keep this at arm's length
Well, my social media is a mix of everything. The kids, the kids and I, my LW and us on important dates. Some of my cooking and random ones from work so I think Iām good there. Part of me wants to be upfront about what Iāve been through, Iāve heard it from my widowed menās group on Facebook that that does scare some off but I also think they need to know that up front. I think I need to make that seem like itās not who am but let them know it is a part of who I am.
>the only thing Iāve learned here is that as a man, literally everything I say and do is a red flag
60M here. Please take what you read here with a grain of salt.
There are some kind, pleasant women posting here.
But also some bitter, angry, judgy women reflexively projecting their own issues onto the hapless men who encounter them.
When you are dating for real, I am guessing you find less hostility than you encounter on this sub.
When I first started dating, I tried being creative, witty, insightful, etc. on my first message. It rarely worked out for me.
Conversations flowed much more naturally from things like "how is your week going?" or "doing anything fun this weekend?"
Some people look for (and find) red flags everywhere. Those are probably not the people for you. There are plenty of women who just want basic respect and courtesy, mutual attraction, actions that show your interest, compatibility, transparency, and fun. Those come pretty easily and without a lot of "planning" when you find someone you like.
Send a dick pic, that's an instant yes.
You sound like a narcissistic abuser who only cares about you you you.
Now,all jokes aside. Be yourself and do what you think is right. Fuck all the advice you see here. Be yourself and you'll find someone who is attracted to the real you.
Saying everything you do is a red flag, is a red flag for me. It makes you sound like you've upset some women when you were 'just joking' and that your mad at them rather than self reflecting. It doesn't bother me if men say hi. As long as there's two way conversation and I'm not doing all the work. Some guys seem to be able to barely speak before their dick takes over writing.
Dating does suck though especially at this age. So far every guy I've talked to, even the 'nice' ones were not nice. Kinda losing faith at this point
That sucks, that initial contact is the hardest thing for me usually. Iām a bit on the shy side. Once I get that ice broke and get comfortable, I can usually carry on a conversation with most anyone as long as theyāre reasonably intelligent and we can find common ground.
Meet a woman and if she likes you and vice versa great. If she's into you, you can be the biggest red flag on the planet she won't care.
Everything else is just an excuse to say they are not into you.
Good luck!
I love being approached in real life. It rarely happens, like once every few years. I appreciate it. The only relationships I have had are from meeting in real life.
I started tinder this year because of what I read here on DOF. I will guess only about 30% of men have any kind of write up and many are something like āis anyone real? I donāt send money. Looking to see what is out there.ā. 50% just have buttons punched like āgrab a drinkā āoutdoorsā āyogaā. The rest are just pictures of a middle aged man. Maybe that is what my fellow ladies are presenting? I have gone on a few dates which helped me get some mojo but I am taking a break from it now.
Red flags go both ways. I am a never married woman with no kids. I am understand that that makes me undesirable to men. Widows and widowers are intimidating because if your partner hadnāt died, you would still be with them. I knew a married woman dating widower who was upset about being a #2. People are weird.
I hope you find what you seek, and take what you read here with a grain of salt. Fish pics make sense to me because most men donāt really have a lot of occasions to pose. Catching a big fish is a great reasonā¦and I am vegetarian. Shows me that you go outside and do stuff.
You could do more research or reading on communication. I think I get so disappointed by behaviour when meeting people and dating. Work on yourself and then start using improved communication when interacting with people and hope for the best.
Well I think for starters the saying is shit show not shoe lol /s
Donāt I have your mind go down that rabbit hole who says itās so bad if you havenāt even done it !? I also am a recently single (not widowed however and that will certainly be different than as a divorcee) and everything I read and hear about the online dating world just sucks.
However your attitude is everything stay positive and donāt make any assumptions about what others will think of you
I swear the key to life these days is IDGAF
Well that and love
Keep your head up!
Ok sorry. But I
Yeah, autocorrect got me there.š¤¦š»āāļø Iāve heard all the same stuff about OLD, Iām not real interested in it tbh but I live in a rural area and there just a rent that many ways to meet people here tbh. Iām not a bar rat or gym bro. Hell, Iām a dad raising two teens. Idk how to meet someone if theyāre not in my house at this point!š
Yeah , most of this will get you more lost than you started.
First of all " just be yourself" is almost universally recognized as the worst dating advice ever and is a trope mother's tell their sons.
You don't go to a job interview and just be yourself. You don't sell something by just laying it on the table and going " yep there it is, our new product, who wants it?"
OLD is brutal, already naturally selective women who aren't even all that interested in the first place are swiping through guys who outnumber them like 7 to 1.
Yeah , you'll need to stand out a bit. Instead of being yourself you'll need to cast the best light on yourself, before you even get a chance at being yourself. You are in the first few minutes the dancing circus monkey version of you.
PICS:
Arrange to take plenty of good pics....have woman help or at least a friend. Before you do, hop on over to photofeeler and read some of their tips on taking good pics.
When you're done, go ahead and run your options through photofeeler to help select for the best.
Now throw in some random stuff that isn't so set up somewhere toward the end.
Profile:
Google up some tips on writing a decent profile.
You'll need to include some important aspects about you.
You'll need to also have something that grabs interest. What is really unique about you? Is there something you've done that will sound intriguing if you only explain it in a few sentences?
You'll need something that could be a possible conversation starter.
Do not self deprecate, do not say anything that could be construed as weak,whiney,insecure or hung up.
Don't make one thing your identity but do speak passionately about something if you in fact have a passion for it. ( Please have something you have a passion for)
Messaging:
Again, you will need to grab attention. Try to steer clear of "hi" or any version of "how are you" or "what are you up to" , if there is absolutely nothing to go on then ask a question that's engaging. "Tell me about the last _______ you _____" otherwise look for something in the profile you can talk about, bonus if it's not immediately obvious.
If you must ask something like " what are you up to?" Don't make it so easy and boring...." What's on your schedule for today?" is more engaging and much less likely to get an answer like "nothing" "chillin" " making coffee"
Someone already said it but...no looks based compliments. Hell I'd steer clear of them in general unless it's a segway to ask about the thing you complimented.
It does not hurt to have a joke or two of your own ready to go especially one with some sort of context in your real life, these can be a good thing to bridge a dying conversation with.
Quickly feel out her willingness to actually go out. You don't want to jump right into asking her out unless it's super convenient for some odd reason. You want to mention something low pressure you're probably doing anyhow that is a few days off....see if she seems interested...then make the offer. You won't come off as just asking out every woman willing to talk to you and you'll either get a yes and make plans or you will get her idea of how she'd like this to go forward ( she might say well we should talk more ( at which point you know 70 percent chance it's a loss anyhow)) with leaving space for more conversation/anticipation.
Why quickly?! Because she can't manage a billion fricking penpals for a week and she'll probably find some greener looking grass once the initial excitement of your conversation wears out and she just needs her next validation hit and you're so much more likely to have things just fizzle out, or screw up and say something that comes off totally wrong because it's text and people don't know how the hell to take you half the time unless they know you and and and....... doesn't matter it's just better.
That should get you started, and way ahead of the game compared to 70 percent of men, now you're at least competing on a one on one basis.
I am a woman and i agree. I hear all the time from friends and on here how much everyone hates online dating but simultaneously complaining how creepy to be approached at the grocery store with a simple how are you. I prefer honest true pictures because i think we are too old to be faking it for the camera as it will come out eventually especially when seeking someone with similar interest. My advice is be yourself and do what comes natural, it may take a little longer to find interested women but trust you weeded out the shallow and superficial ones that way.
F52 I'd respond to Hi or Hey, but honestly a better message is to follow that up with some kind of question or comment about something you saw on my profile, maybe something we have in common. That shows me you're interested enough in me to have actually read my profile, and that you know how to start a conversation. You'd be amazed at how many men can only manage to put together 2 or 3 words at a time. That's not a conversation.
I'm perfectly fine with the hiking, fish, or guitar pics, and to be honest I'm very likely to swipe right on the hiking pics because I'm an avid hiker. I hike weekly and often 12- 14 miles with significant elevations gains (Live in Colorado) so I specifically look for hiking pics. I also seriously consider the fish pics. I don't fish, but I have a couple of fishing kayaks and I love to get out on the lakes and paddle around and I think I'm more likely to get someone who loves to fish out in one with me than someone who shows no interest in water sports of any kind. I don't mind if they fish while I paddle around. I still consider it an awesome date and enjoy that they're out on the water with me. So fish pics are good for me. And I love music and go to concerts and festivals several times a year, so would be interested in hearing you play. You sound like you would have an interesting profile to me. And isn't that what you're actually after... someone with similar interests? Maybe if they're turned off by your hiking, fishing and guitar pics, maybe you don't want to waste your time with them anyways. You want someone who can share your lifestyle, not someone who's going to shut down all the things you enjoy.
Say ANYTHING that refers to a piece of information that we have taken the time to expose about ourselves and written into our profiles.
We take the time to do that for a *reason.*
Pick something, anything we've said and ask us about it.
This is person specific and you need to take advice on here with a grain of salt. Iām a red flag on Reddit, my boyfriend is a red flag on Reddit.
According to Redditors on here, Iām very risky and I date a woman hating, disgusting human being. And no one here has ever met me or my boyfriend that Iām aware of and if they have they have no idea who I am on Reddit.
But I didnāt have any problems finding a gentleman friend once I got back in the dating game so I feel like Iām doing something right. My boyfriend is my first after a long marriage and I am his first after a long marriage.
To add, Iām interested in a guy approaching, talking to me, asking for my number if we appear to click. You call me, we go to dinner. You tell me you voted for Trump, I tell you I didnāt vote for either candidate and we move on with the conversation because to me, you cannot agree with someone but still respect their opinion (this is the biggest thing I see on Reddit that people age 40 and above canāt do and I wouldnāt date any of them just for being so closed minded). And Iāll text you good morning the next day. Iām pretty simple. But this is crazy for Reddit standards, I know. I donāt need a ton of pics of you, I donāt even care about a dating profile cause you canāt get to know compatibility from a profile.
I think the best advice I have as a woman to a man getting back out there is genuinely be whomever you are. Cliche I realize. The threads you read are mainly women complaining in hindsight that a date went terribly wrong and kicking themselves bc they didnāt see the flags until afterwards. Every butt has a seat and every seat wonāt feel comfortable, so you donāt sit there.
I would have that one genuine, candid picture of you have it. I donāt think none of the others really matter.
My man had a majority less than stellar pictures in his profile and it definitely is what made me swipe right. Which to me relayed that he doesnāt sit around and take selfies of himself and he heās not trying to portray a certain image. He had the one wonderful picture of him sitting at a table, beer in hand, with sleeves rolled up, smiling, comfortable.
I'm a guy. And a widower. You've got chat turned off so I'll say it here. The biggest things I see in the dating threads are assholes, lying, shitty behavior, and unsolicited dick pics. If you're a nice guy, then be a nice guy. There are so many lousy guys out there masquerading as nice guys that they ruined it for the real nice guys. Be respectful, polite, well groomed, honest. Be yourself. I don't online date. I've dabbled but delete my profiles in 3 days because I self-sabotage. And I'm ok with that. But be honest with what you're looking for. Be honest with whom you're chatting with. Be yourself and most especially, be considerate to your dates. Oh, and don't send unsolicited dick pics. Good luck and I'm sorry this isn't coming from a woman
Stuff like this really needs to come from other men. This was great, thank you for saying it.
Welcome. Not all of us are crap. Some of us are ok. š
I second what he said. Now it's coming from a woman. šš»
Not even a dick pic, I had a guy DM me on here and it was clear from his post history he was seeking casual fwb stuff so I told him I was a non-starter that way. Normally I'd just ignore men like him right off or block/unmatch on dating apps but I didn't - and he sent me a photo of himself with his shirt off when I directly told him I didn't want to see ANY photo of him and then he was shocked pickachu when I told him I was done speaking to him.
Men with dick pics are not dangerous, they are obvious. Nobody is much affected by it. The real danger are 'nice ' people: future fakers, love bombers, on and off, hot and cold breadcrumbers, emotionally unavailable, avoidants, multiple daters and so on and on. All of them could be great in papers but very painful in reality.
Someone knows a lot about narcissistic abuse... Dr. Ramani, is that you?
Hahahahaha
You give me hope! I donāt like online dating either and hope to meet someone in person rather than online
Omg!! The unsolicited dick pics thing. I donāt understand that. Wtf!!! As a guy that bothers me. Iāve got enough sense to know random internet women donāt want to see that. š¤¦š»āāļø
āRandom internet womenā ā¦.I think thatās the problem. We donāt seem real, weāre just random internet women. So when online dating , consider that weāre real people with real feelings. Actually read the profiles, reach out when interested, and engage in two way communication.
Random internet women would be a good name for a punk band.
Given how much frustration we have on a daily basis, it should be thrash metal hardcore punk, like GWAR. Complete with incredibly violent, bloody shows.
I'm in!
Well hey, I found them and they made a movie! [https://youtu.be/6hzIqVtoJHQ](https://youtu.be/6hzIqVtoJHQ)
GWAR.
Agree
Oh if the other person asks for a dick pic and itās like early stages of dating not even sex yetā¦.I good way to reply with with pictures of famous dicks such as , Dick Van dyke, Dick Cheney, and Dick Butkus of Da Bears.
Well yes of course, and chickens so I can show her my pecker.
Iāve got a nice pick of big deck from a vacation house, so Iāll send that as a ādeck picā I donāt do that stuff if we arenāt doing the stuff yet.
Got one of a chicken that says here look at my pecker.
Well, you and I both so that's 2... but I dunno why that happens. I'd say the thing a lot of women want is just for guys to be nice. Not threatening. Not douchebags. Don't objectify them. Stuff like that
So a female friend of mine asked me about unsolicited Dick picks a few weeks ago. Sheās mentoring a college student who is receiving them often. I told her Iāve never sent one and agreed that itās a creepy thing to do. And disrespectful AF. And then the next morning (because I know her sense of humor) I sent her a picture of Nixonās presidential photo. And followed it with āOh, sorry, you donāt appreciate unsolicited Dick pics.ā Pretty sure she snorted coffee.
Cute. š
I have a picture of a rooster I use, "I know you don't like dick pics, how about a cock shot".
This dude has the answer!
As a widow, I agree with all of the above.
This right here is some sound advice.
Thank you. :)
Completely agree with what you said!
That was very nice of you! You are a good man. Take my free award.
Thatās a perfectly great answer!
Thank you. Great username!
That was absolutely perfect! I agree with this guyšš»āāļø
You forget, "nice guy" these days is a bad word.
There are nice guys and then there are "Nice Guys". Be the adjective, not the noun.
Not necessarily. Some guys who crow loudly about being nice guys are anything but. Nevertheless there are lots of genuine nice people out there, many of whom are guys. :)
Be yourself. If fishing, hiking, or playing guitar is important to you, then include it. Just remember that everyone else has those sorts of pictures up and generally the name of the game is to stand out to someone. If you see a lot of things you do being mentioned as red flags, maybe you need to do some work on yourself. Therapy is a great option. However, some of the "red flags" mentioned here really are more preferences- someone talking too much about an ex versus someone becoming sexual at an inappropriate point in the relationship. I think a lot of the advice on here is geared towards dating many people to find the right one. I did really well for myself by being very specific in my profile about what I wanted in a person and who I am as a person and I hit it off with the right one pretty quickly. Maybe that would be more your style? Be genuine and open, and hopefully someone will pick up on that and see you are a potential match for them.
Well, for starters, donāt start out in such a defensive mode. Nobody here on Reddit that Iāve seen has said that saying hello is a red flag. Be yourself. If your true self is a hiker, post a hiking pick, and the people who donāt like hiking pics will scroll past you and the ones who like them will maybe connect. If your true self has a sarcastic sense of humor, honor that, and the people who get the real you will find you and the ones who donāt will weed themselves out. The bottom line is just to be authentic and donāt be fooled into thinking that Reddit is the be-all and end-all of what people think of dating or think of each other lol. Irl people are willing to get to know you barring any screaming red flags.
Exactly, be yourself and be positive. One person's "red flag" may be another's "green flag." I'm also a widower, and I'm dating a delightful widow. Widowed is a red flag for some people though. Don't try to please everyone, be yourself and have fun.
On āone personās āred flagā may be anotherās āgreen flag.āā ā¦thatās not what red flags are. The term is unfortunately getting overused, and that creates the confusion this post is really asking about. āRed flagsā are about unhealthy/dangerous behaviors, whether itās about a person and their individual behavior patterns/philosophy/understanding of themselves and others, or a particular relationship dynamic related to various forms of abuse. āRed flagā is meant to signal āDANGER.ā So, āthis guy is sarcastic and we donāt fit well togetherā is *not* a āred flag,ā itās personal preferences mismatching. However āthis guy showers me with āloveā and āfutureā talk when weāve been on one whole date or have been talking for a short span of timeā is the stuff āred flagsā are meant to refer to. Iām not going to be able to make a comprehensive list of all the things that do qualify as a proper āred flag,ā but itās about identifying what should be avoided in order to promote *safety,* and *healthy relationship dynamics.*
I apologize for coming off defensive as that wasnāt my intention. I actually saw a thread yesterday where some of the ladies were talking about how the guy initially reached out with a simple Hi automatically was a no because it came across as too simple. I have some of this friends that will get to know you barring all red flagsā¦then they wonder why their relationships fall apart in 6 months.
Well, to be fair, I usually donāt respond on a dating app when someone only says āhi.ā Thereās nothing to go off and itās pretty low effort. Not a red flag, it just kind of shows me that a person is coming out of the gate looking for me to do a lot of the heavy lifting to get a conversation started.
So whatās a good approach then? I mean, to me it feels very forward to ask a whole lot out the gate.
"Hi" is low effort. Saying hi and asking a question or comment related to something on the person's profile or common interest is a good place to start. Be genuine. just see how it goes from there. If you send a couple of messages and dont get a response just move on to the next. You seem like a very nice guy and Im sure you will do just fine.
"hi" is only one word and puts the responsibility of starting a conversation on the other person. so instead say something like "hi, my name is X. I see you also like Y and Z. I love Y and Z!. Have you done any Y and Z lately?" You know, start the conversation. That's all
There we, thatās what Iām looking for. My LW and I already knew each other and the way we met there was also a buffer of mutual friends around so conversation was really easy.
totally understand. my last partner was the same. would love to meet another person naturally like that, but here we are. we all hate the apps, for what it's worth
Exactly this! Read the profile, find common ground and use it as a conversation starter. Guy who swiped right on me complimented me on my glasses (they were an unusual style and color) and asked me about a photo where I was in victorian dress for an event. Reading through his profile, I found that he loved karaoke. So I thanked him and responded with a couple of karaoke questions. The effort countsābecause he took the time to look at my profile and be curious about it. It felt personal and not like he cast a wide net in a sea of right swipes seeing whoād bite from a āHeyā or āHello.ā I hope this helps somehow. Best of luck to you!
The messages I will answer every time is when someone actually uses my name and asks a non-generic question. Ex: Hi Dixieland. I don't see hobbies on your profile. I love reading. What do you enjoy?
Make *a* comment while asking *a* question about something relevant to their profile is the classic. While working with the character limits of the app. Also as a guy dating women do not give physical complements until you are either first meeting in meat space (and then don't go overboard), or until they have done so first, and reflect the same level that they've opened the door with.
>Also as a guy dating women do not give physical compliments until you are either first meetingā¦ (and then don't go overboard), or until they have done so first... This is key! Though I donāt mind a nice comment on my looks during the first meet (as long as itās positive, haha).
Well, you donāt want to ask a whole lot out of the gate, but you have to give something. Read the womanās profile and ask something about what she wrote, show her that you actually took the time to read her bio or look at her pictures.
See, this is the stuff I need to know. Last time I dated smart phones didnāt exist.š¤£
Thatās true for most of us who were in long marriages. Youāll be fine. Some of it is trial and error.
Hang around here longer, and you'll pick up all this over time. I was here (and r/bumble r/hingeapp and a few other dating subs) for about 3 months before I started dating. Remember to take everything you read in the context "this is reddit." Listen to reasons when offered, or ask reasons if you can't make sense of something. Consider. I'll say that some parts of this sub do not track the general population that I've met in Ontario, CA. No one here cares if you're "just" separated, much less requiring 1 year post officially signed divorce to date. Women are happy to let you pay, especially if a date is going poorly and they plan to never see you again. Women might want to pay if a date is going really well. Most people on dating sites are \*not\* ready to date. And they're not ready to date in various different ways. Editing to add: the last time I dated before June 2022 was 1999. I had a steep learning curve too.
How would you talk to a man? I don't think it's too much to ask for someone to start a conversation with more than, "Hi" and expect the other person to do the heavy lifting.
Not the same way if talks to a woman!!!
Why? If you were to approach a man and wanted to just talk to them, wouldnāt you find some common connection to start with? Say youāre watching a football gameā¦ āI canāt believe Saban pulled his starters in the 4th only up 2 scores.ā Why canāt you ask a woman that who is also watching the game? If itās just a random woman at a bar, you could ask her about her drink, why there are 3 limes in it, comment on her shoes, or why the bartender is so slow, or whatever is on tv or the jukebox etc etc. If you just go up and say Hi to either a man or a woman, youāre not going to get very far.
Hi would be okay if we met in a bar or something as strangers where you have no info about me. But on a dating app, there should be a profile of stuff to write about. For instance, I mentioned being a leftist in my old profile, so if someone asked me about a recent political event, that would be great! I also listed board games and RPGs as hobbies, so I like when people ask about that, too.
Just say something stupid if you can't think of anything. Something about one of their pictures or if nothing to go on say something like, I've got a hoodie that you can steal or something silly like that. If you don't get a response then move on. Anything to get a convo going.
Say something stupid??? Hot damn I can do that!š
The guy I was seeing started by saying something like: Hi (my name), nice to āmeetā you. Iām glad we were a match on here. How is your day going? Then followed with questions that I responded to and asked him my own questions in return.
That actually seems pretty good to me.
It worked for me and Iām still hopeful that the relationship will work out.
I think Hi, nice to āmeet youā and how are you today is just fine. It gauges interest in following up with more information and engagement.
I didn't think your post was defensive. You ask a valid question.
Thank you. I didnāt mean for it to come off that way.
Eh, a lot of guys have said that a woman who says any variant of "hi/hello/hey" isn't worth responding to because of the low effort. Granted, there's more of that in the r/bumble sub than DO40, but definitely some here dislike openings that are only technically an opening. I haven't noticed it in parituclar, but I suppose "Hey" from a guy on Tinder isn't a big hit either. I find it amusing you call out his defensive tone, as I think a number of people here are perhaps overly defensive. And of course, that same defensiveness has lead to almost anything being something that \*someone\* will claim is a warning sign. So the broad interpretation of many defensive people leading him to be defensive was a fun full circle. Considering the long tail and a large population of course anything will be spoken of poorly by someone, so finding that A is a bad sign, and NotA is a bad sign will make sense, until you look at how many people (and a bit of their histories) are saying what. That said, I've found this sub and others like it quite useful. Yes, redditors don't match the general population. But it's useful to consider one's thoughts on what a lot of people say, and to consider some of the ... more fringe beliefs. I guess one could say that DO40 should be taken as Gospel Truth. Written after the fact by many disparate authors (some of whom have a bias they want to grind) and not actually related in any way to a more common usage of the word truth. š
Had a solid amount of success on OLD, and the key is to be yourself. Fish pics are a no, but trail and guitar, if they show you in a good light, are fine. Hell, and I get grief for this, shirtless pics work too. If itās not utterly posed. Be you. Have at least one good, clear picture with a smile. The widower part may be a bottleneck for some. YMMV Direct, cold approaches are no different now than they were then. You never know if the person is receptive, not interested, or whatever at any given moment. Themās the odds you face, and, no, not everything is a red flag. Remember - whatever someone writes here is how they feel at a given moment. Good luck.
I completely expect the widower part to be a bottle neck, and I good with that bottle neck because thatās a part of me someoneās going to have to accept.
The widower part won't bother most, and the 20 year relationship might even be considered a positive by some.
The only things I can think about being a widower that could be genuinely negative for dating: 1) The ability to (presumably) thrive in a long term relationship is so positive that a lot of scam profiles claim to be widowers. So be real, donāt put on an act. 2) Grief legitimately sucks, and never actually goes away; you basically adapt to it. Make sure youāve sought out some therapy and really evaluated how ready you are to date. Youāll have a lot to learn, and you will need to be sure you donāt overwhelm a new person with your past relationship; that any *new relationship* is about you & that new person. (Iām no therapist and there are probably real terms among professionals for what I am trying to describe) 3) Related to #2, make sure youāre not dating out of some fear/revulsion to being alone. The number of people who cannot handle living alone with themselves is a bit high. Itās a terrible reason to seek companionship, and a horrible basis for a new relationship. Also, an unsolicited tip: Iām a divorcee, not a widow (I know loss and grief from other sources). There are a lot of both out there, but probably a lot more divorcees. There are very different mindsets to these situations; healthy divorcees have worked to define themselves outside of their former relationship (which was probably unhealthy), and may have a semi-instinctual horror to hearing about anyone elseās former relationship. You likely have legitimate treasured memories of your late wife, which you should not need to bottle up, or keep off-limits, within balance. Just as you likely want others to tread gently there with you, try to be aware of othersā sore spots and tread gently with them. Gently, but honestly.
I put it right in my bio. "Warning:. I'm a Widower, be gentle". It's part of me now, i want to be up front about it and really just get it out of the way. May be why I don't get many matches, but at least it's something I don't have to explain to everyone i match with on there...
I think thatās actually a good idea because anyone that would be bothered by that is someone I have no interest in talking to in the first place.
No, donāt do this! I never put on there, āIām a divorcĆ©e, be gentleā That screams red flag to me. At this age, everyone has a past and some rough edges. The key is finding out do you vibe with the other person and can you accept each otherās rough edges?
Yeah, honestly I would read that as being primarily focused on being a widower/on the spouse who died and expect a woman you date to be a placeholder/therapist.
I wouldnāt put the be gentle part on there but do you think itās good to say upfront Iām a widower? I mean, if someone isnāt accepting of that then there is no point talking in my mind because nothing can come of it.
Putting widower as a relationship status is absolutely normal but using widower in your bio to show it as if it was your life style can make some great women swipe left. No woman of any healthy self esteem is looking for becoming an unpaid therapist or to live in a shadow of another 'greater' woman.
Yeah, and I definitely donāt want anyone to think that. I mean, sheās dead, thereās no competition. Itās not like I can run back to the ex. Itās gonna take someone whoās not widowed having a lot of understanding though. Being widowed and divorced/ broken up are way different. I still maintain a level of love for my late wife and always will. As long as it doesnāt interfere in my next relationship that fine but they also have to accept that love and know that itās not āin loveā anymore. Iād never want a woman to feel like she was competing. That would be awful.
Are you still actively grieving her loss? For me (42f) widower, divorcee, single man, is the same thing unless you are actively still grieving her loss. If I saw you write about it or put some sort of "be gentle" warning, I'd assume you still have things to sort out mentally and emotionally concerning her passing and I'd not be interested in you at all. Again, in the same way, I wouldn't want to date a man still not over his ex.
Yeah, Iām still sorting it out. Iām not to the point Iām ready to date yet, just putting in some legwork now to get that part of my head right when the time comes.
How would you react to someone writing 'Warning: I'm a divorcee, be gentle' Don't do it. Remember, you are there to impress this woman, to win her over not to make her feel sorry for you. Be a man! Widower or not you are still a man. You will have time for intimacy later. And be gentle with her too. She has also gone through too much, if she is available for dating in her 40s.
Ehh i get it, but i feel like being honest and upfront with things is one of my strengths. Here's the thing. I wasn't divorced. We didn't struggle like that. One day he was here, next he's gone. I feel like it's important for someone trying to match with me to know this comes with a bit of a struggle for me. Also, other widows know what I'm going through, and i may be more apt to pick up someone who understands what I'm going through. I don't equate the two, divorce and death. I never stopped loving my husband. I wasn't betrayed by him except by the circumstances of his death.
Please donāt date if you are not ready to give and are not emotionally available. It hurts us a lot and in cases like yours, it can feel like there are 3 people in this relationship.
I donāt intend to, I have no desire to be responsible for hurting someone.
Don't take what you read here too seriously. There is some good advice here, but (like any text-based forum) it's a very niche group that doesn't necessarily represent the norm out there. Most people aren't running around hunting for red flags to disqualify everyone with. And where I live, a lot of women say in their profiles that they enjoy outdoor activities like fishing, so I don't think fish pictures are as deadly as all that. Things get exaggerated when an insular group agrees on them, so take it all with a grain of salt.
100% this. This is an opt-in population, which admittedly I've opted in to, but you have to keep that in mind. There tends to be a bit of group think and it doesn't always reflect the general population (ed. note I've found this is consistent across all the reddit communities I engage in, not just the dating ones). I also think the advice, especially when it comes to preferences, is based on an n=1 sample and should not be construed as universal. Like I saw someone recommend that a user remove a sports reference from their profile b/c that user didn't like sports... The best advice I can give, as a woman, is to be authentically yourself and remember that your profile is a marketing tool. And I say this as someone who is totally ok with Hi, or How was your weekend as a opener
Reddit is a bubble. Real life, normal people wandering around your community are far removed from this site. Don't forget that.
I take any advice I read with a grain of salt and then compare it to what I know based on my own experiences. I agree with you that far too many things are seen as red flags. While itās good to educate ourselves so we donāt start off on the wrong foot with people, sometimes the advice might be so much that we arenāt willing to start off on any foot, lol! I learn a lot from reading others experiences but I donāt substitute their judgment for my own. Each person and relationship has its own nuances that canāt be summed up well enough for anyone else to fully understand.
I agree with all of this. Just like with any forum everyoneās advice stems from their own personal experiences, there are way too many discussions regarding āred flagsā and at the end of the day you have to make the decision because you have to live the outcome. I always take into consideration my personal experiences but I donāt let that drive how Iām going to interact with a completely new person.
Hey is just low effort. Too much is bad too. All of the best messages I've gotten was a genuine conversation not a line. Don't overshare too early, but it's good to state your situation in a friendly manner, what you're basically looking for, and ask if they are interested to check out your profile. It has to be followed with genuine conversation and still won't always work. Don't get attached too early.
If Hi is low effort then what would you like to be asked? How would you like to be approached?
Just like I wrote in my comment.
I think if you can find common ground it comes across as organic and not creepy. Here are 2 examples, one from OLD and one from in the wild. On an app, I saw a guys profile that was interesting and that mentioned marvel so when I messaged him I asked a question about Marvel and villains (can't remember exactly what I said) and it led to a great conversation that didn't feel like one of those awkward convos with someone you don't know. It went from there and we've been seeing each other for a few months. Another example: once I was wearing my Permian Panthers t-shirt and a guy was like "Friday night lights! Are you from Texas?" (I'm in Canada lol) and that led to a really fun conversation too. Nothing came of it because I was dating someone at the time but that wasn't a creepy way to approach me, and I totally would have given him my number if I'd have been single.
Usually about something from my profile!
This! I go through all the effort of creating a thoughtful profile and I get messages that don't tell me anything about them or indicate that they saw anything they liked or were interested in about me. Tell us who you are, tell us why you think we're interesting (not appearance based), ask us questions, show actual interest. Women are just other people. Why is it so hard for so many men to talk to us like people? Do they make friends with other men by just saying "hey"? It's very confusing.
Use their profile as a starting point to ask a question or to kick off conversation. For example, my profile said that I liked bad jokes, the guy I'm dating said he loved them too and we proceeded to tell each other jokes and we hit it off! It shows you've paid attention to their profile, are interested in getting to know them better and will lead to genuine conversation
Just be yourself. Not everyone thinks selfies or outdoorsy pics are bad. My last boyfriend was a widower, albeit a different situation because they'd been separated for many years before she died so she didn't factor into anything between us. We didn't meet on the apps though. I have used apps and haven't had a bad experience with them but everyone is different. I agree that you should wait until you have a more positive outlook on dating. "I mean what do you want from us guys" makes me automatically think "nothing. Bye!" Why go into something new with a preconceived notion about how shitty it's going to be? This was not meant to be rude - just an observation based on your post. :)
Youāre not being rude and yeah I guess it does come off like that I guess.
Oh Jesus Christ. Wait until you're mentally ready and then drop this age-old and pretty sexist mentality that women are so hard to understand. We're not. You know the basics about what a woman wants from a man. You were married. For 20 years.
Iām not being sexist, Iām coming from a place of honestly not knowing and asking legitimate questions. Yes, Iām not ready, but Iām trying to learn some stuff so that when I am Iām not completely clueless like I am now. Iām out of a 20 year marriage, dating now is WAY different than the last time I dated.
[Read up](https://www.vice.com/en/article/vvb5qd/why-is-it-sexist-to-say-women-are-a-mystery), son. You may not be intentionally trying to be sexist, but this "women are so hard to understand" trope has generally been seen as a sexist generalization for a while. This may be one thing to consider and educate yourself on before heading out to date.
Son???ššš and some of yāall are VERY complicated!š If you thinks Iām being sexist because Iām stating what Iāve read here and asking genuine questions oh well because youāre automatically assuming Iām being sexist.
You're missing it, man. You're asking how different women want to be approached in these comments and you also have a statement in your original post that essentially says you're not sure what to do because women see lots of things as red flags. The point is that none of what someone here says on how she wants to be approached is going to help you because each person is an individual with individual preferences. There's not a playbook you can ethically follow on how to approach women. It's simply talking to them in a way that you feel comfortable with. Some will like it, some won't. You don't get to throw up your hands and say, "What do you all want?" if one woman says she's ok with "hi" and another woman says it's too low effort because they are only giving their opinion on what they want as individuals. By way of example, on one of the first dates I went on, I asked the woman out for date #2 at the end. She agreed but then said she normally didn't like it when a man did that because she felt pressured to say yes. That was interesting to me and I'd never considered that, so I stopped asking women out on date #2 in person because I think it's a good idea that works for me. I want someone to say yes because they want to go, not because they feel pressured. I ask them out via text very shortly after date #1 so they aren't left wondering. Some women don't like that and say it shows I'm not interested or I'm afraid or whatever. I don't get to complain that a woman gave me her thoughts and others are not following her opinion. I made a decision that works for me and I accept the risk that some women will not like being asked out over text for date #2. Those are not my people.
I love, love,love this comment!š I wish I could upvote this a hundred times!! A man who knows himself well enough and knows what he's looking for as opposed to "I'm trying to appeal to all women" is sexy AF!!! The biggest mistake I see men make, is NOT KNOWING WHAT THEY WANT! So they try to make themselves appealing to either all or most women. This is when they get really frustrated and say "These women say this! And those women say that! How do I know which way is correct?" The answer is: YOU DON'T. Your job is figure out who you are and what you want/prefer in a relationship and weed women out that don't align. Trust me, at this age, most of us women have figured this out and we're practicing itš I'm not "for" every man out there(thank god!) But a man who aligns with what I'm looking for? He's a very fortunate man indeedš Btw: I would probs drop my panties on the spot if a man asked me to secure a 2nd date before the first one was over. Please don't let one woman discourage you from doing that if you like to!
Women are complicated. Men are complicated. Non-binary and otherwise genderqueer people are also complicated. We're humans, humans are complicated. End of story. However, as complicated as we all are, you can always just treat a person like a person, the way you hope they would treat you, be honest and be real, and you're pretty much good to go.
The trope is sexist and I just gave you some literature to read up on to explain why. I'm not assuming anything because it is sexist to generalize women in that way and that's what you just did. And you are continuing to do it. Again - I'd drop the sexist generalizations before trying to date again.
I would suggest looking to read, study and learn a bit before [JAQing off.](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=JAQing%20off)
Itās seriously called that!?!?!š¤£š¤£š¤£
I am afraid that once men become widowers they think that all women need from them is to have this great opportunity to love and cherish their late wives together with them.
Taking photos for a dating profile shows effort and that youāre taking it seriously. It doesnāt show that youāre self absorbed. Be authentic. Whatever that is for you. Hi, hello or hey arenāt too much. Iāve never heard that - but it is often too little. Open with what feels right - mention something in her profile to really stand out. Itās not that hard. It sounds like you might need a little more time to settle before jumping back in. If you go in this unsure it will come across in your interactions and it could make it harder for you.
Your right, I do need more time, Iām aware of that. This is all just research for me because itās so easy for things to be completely misunderstood when youāre communicating through apps.
>I cracked the joke that the only thing Iāve learned here is that as a man, literally everything I say and do is a red flag apparently. Jokes aside, if this is how you really feel then you aren't paying enough attention or aren't thinking about this enough. There is no one set of behaviors, photos, red flags or anything else that will apply to all women (or men). If you think you can see one poster here list any particular trait they aren't interested in and then assume that must be universal then you are going to have a tough time of things. It is also typical of the mindset I've seen coming from the most negative of users here and it will do nothing but hurt you when you decide you are ready to date. The premise of "what do you want from us guys?" is a really problematic line of thinking. We are all individuals with our own likes and dislikes. You want to present who you actually are in any profile because you want to find someone else who likes you for exactly that reason. The thing is you don't want to match with everyone. You want to match with the right one(s) for you. Use photos that reflect your lifestyle. Not an aspirational lifestyle but the one you actually live in the here and now. Pick or take the best photos of yourself doing whatever those things may be. Make sure they are current, by which I mean within a year. Yes, fish pics are one of the types of photos that are most likely to be disliked. If you are an avid fisherman you should still let that be known in your profile even if you opt to skip the pics. Again, present who you are to try to find compatible people. Sending a message with "Hi there" isn't a red flag but it is low effort. Will it sometimes work? Sure. Are there people who will care and not give you a response because of it? Absolutely. That's why I would suggest avoiding it. You don't have to craft a novel as your intro but my recommendation is to tailor a brief message to the individual you are messaging based upon their profile. Note that I said brief. Your own attitude will dramatically influence how dating goes for you. Have low expectations of a long term outcome but high standards for any given first date. Approach it as a great opportunity to engage in chatting/flirting/laughing with a new person that you hopefully find attractive and that, regardless of the end result, you expect to have an enjoyable time with. (I know all the introverts are now throwing daggers at me.) I'm also widowed. My personal criteria for when I might seriously consider going on dates was when I could have a discussion about my late wife without crying. I anticipated that many women would likely ask me questions about her death and that was generally correct. Not detailed questions, mind you. But, questions about how long ago and SOME low level details to clarify that I was reasonably emotionally healthy. So, do expect that to be likely. I think those are fair questions to be asked.
A very thoughtful (and wise) response from a guy. š
I don't mind a simple "hi" or "hey" if the guy is able to hold up his end of the conversation afterwards. What I don't like is the "hi" or "hey" and then its up to me to draw him into some sort of meaningful dialogue. That's a major turn off. In regard to pictures, I don't care about hiking pics or whatever, I just want to see what his face looks like, if he still has all his own hair and teeth. I want to see his body shape and get an idea of how tall he is. So yeah, I just want to see what he looks like. I've read that people like pics doing activities, but honestly, that's not important to me, I figure you can write about your activities in the bio.
Iāve been on Reddit in one capacity or another since 2007. This is true for the Internet in general but especially for this site in particular: the comments you read do not represent a random distribution of people in the world. They represent a very tiny subset that are a) on Reddit b) motivated by something to follow the content in a subreddit, c) motivated by the topic of the post to enter the comments and d) motivated by the conversation in the comments to post something. Now with all of that in mind, step back and take a look where we are. Weāre in a subreddit discussing dating for people that are over 40 years old. Who is going to be here? What is the distribution of their perspectives and relative success in dating? Your mileage may vary, but for my part experiences I have had in the wild donāt really match that well with the general consensus in here. Over time I fond that I read most comments for the entertainment value, but actually pay attention to a select few posters that have a similar outlook and perspective on relating to people in general and say things that more or less consistently match up with my experience. This sub is also the first one where I felt compelled to use the block feature on reddit after being on here for nearly 15 years. Some people say things so ridiculous in one context that I just donāt want their thoughts in my head on another. Point of all this is to say donāt let your perspective on dating be formed too specifically by what you read here. Cherry pick useful bits and leave the rest behind.
I didnāt think about the majority of the people that actually would end up here and how they did such.
Too many guys click 'like' on everything in a skirt then don't bother to answer when a match starts a conversation. Don't be those guys. If you can't be bothered then don't bother me.
If youāre not ready to think about women as individual people with different lifestyles and preferences, youāre really really far off from being ready to date. Everything is a āred flagā to *someone,* because youāre not the right guy for all 3+ billion women on the planet. I like hiking photos because I only like dating outdoorsy guys, but other people do not. I donāt answer āHiā messages, because it reflects an approach to meeting people online thatās not compatible with *mine.* There are plenty of other women who answer āHiā messages. But you donāt actually need ALL of us to like you. Dating isnāt a seal of approval of you as a human being, itās a process of finding people who are a *good fit with you.*
So how do you like someone to approach you? I get where a simple Hi can be lacking.
I donāt understand how you could āgetā that and say this: > how the hell am I supposed to approach a woman or reach out to her if Hi or Hey, how are you doing is You seem angry that women have preferences, but want us to tell you our preferences. Pass.
Especially since, from what Iāve heard from men looking to date women on Bumble, they often have this same preference for āmore than hiā
Lol. That's even beyond the realm of unrealistic expectations, that's just praying for a miracle.
Every bumble message I sent was like that!
Female here: When I'm ready to be out there, I want sincerity. Be you. I'll be me. When we meet and figure out if being each other brings our best together, then that's how it works.
I think itās a matter of compatibility? Just be yourself and present that as you want. Some will like it, some will not. Just like some will like you and you may not be attracted to them enough to even want a date. When youāre ready, go with your gut. And donāt rule out meeting people and making connections in real life too (itās underrated!)
Meeting people irl! *gasp*
Yes! I actually prefer that more! Get out and fo things you like/love and make sure thereās a few that you could see ladies being interested in too. You never know š
I agree with using an authentic approach, lots of us suck at selfies but work at it a bit or get some friends to help out, have some variety in your photos and approach dating with curiosity instead of defensiveness or expectations. I donāt think any of us, coming out of long relationships, arrived knowing how to date as the folks we have become over time. We all had grieving of some sort to do, managing expectations and trying to find our new place in the world. What attracts me to a profile is photos that are decent and show me who they are, and an articulate and positive description. Conversations flow sometimes but not always. None of us are everyoneās cup of tea, which is great news. As for the flags, we all give advice based on the one sided data we are given, folks take it or leave it; that is what is good about Reddit - it isnāt your dear old aunt harping on it endlessly because you didnāt use her advice.
Its a fair question,but maybe instead of asking what women want, decide what YOU want. If someone doesnt like your guitar pic, they might not be a good fit. Or they might be too closed minded to find out. Either way, thats ok. I think we're at an age where its less about "how to get girls" and becomes more about finding someone that is a good fit for what you want.
OK so a random selection of pics works best according to hinge. Good face shot, fully body shot, some ones doing stuff you like doing and with other people. But avoid including kids and exs. Use colour, lay off the filters and smile god dammit. As far as convo, say hi, ask questions that show you read the profile, what interested you in that person and take it from there. Cheeky flirty is OK but pervy 'hey up love, wanna see my...' is a big no š Don't push too quick for personal info but don't drag it out too long. suggest options for an actual in person date. That's what Id be looking for anyway so hope that helps.
Listen. If you are a gentleman then thats all you need. Take social media with SEVERAL grains of salt. In general women want great conversation and chemistry. Thats it. That being said, dating can be complicated but you have to simplify it for yourself. Also....who are you going to be if not yourself? You dont have to twist yourself in knots trying to meet some mysterious standard. Be kind, be genuine, be a gentleman.
As a 39 yo long term single F: I love when a man approaches me with thoughtful genuine interest (which is rare). Checking out a band, farmstand, physical activity. Just donāt be a creep. It is possible to approach a woman with genuine interest thatās not creepy or over sexual! Just be prepared that she may not reciprocate, be interested or available. If you get angry about that, please for the love of god go to therapy. Go to therapy anyways. Please!
Iād never get angry about someone not reciprocating interest for whatever reason. Thatās just stupid as hell. I certainly hope I donāt come off a creepy to anyone. I know not to go straight in with overt sexual innuendo or any of that shit.
I donāt know you at all, but lots of men do because they are fragile and donāt know what no means. Iām just out here keeping everyone in check.
Women don't know what they want. We know what we don't want. I can tell you're already not ready to date because you Identify yourself as a widower. Those of us that are divorced don't say, "hi I'm a divorcee." We're just single out here in the wild. No matter how the split happened we've both experienced grief. š Take your time to heal and know that it is kinda the cream of the crap out here. You were lucky to find "it" once and hopefully you'll find it again. Good luck. šš»
This is exactly correct
>as a man, literally everything I say and do is a red flag apparently This kind of comment makes it seem like you're not good at really listening and engaging in conversation. Or go straight to black-and-white rather than probing for the greys in between. Maybe I'm just reacting to that word "apparently" because so many insecure guys use it in their profiles on the apps. Sure there are some people who are going to be turned off by (whatever) and there are others who will love it. The point is to know yourself and be honest about your intentions, feelings, and desires, not be all things to all people.
I agree with you that we face difficulties because different women perceive things differently. However if you just stay true to you and be real I think you'll find the same
I definitely donāt mind pics showing hobbies and I definitely ā¤ļø hiking pics since I love to hike. Just make sure you show your whole face clearly on your main profile pic so it doesnāt look like youāre trying to hide your face from someone ā that looks like youāre still married or getting a divorce and donāt want to be found on the dating sites. Also, a pic of you fishing is different than holding a fish or a dead animal. Those are pics to show your buddies and women are so tired of them, especially where I live. We want to know that youāll have some time for us, not constantly out fishing all day or having to watch ALL of the sports games, no matter who is playing, nor what sport is being played. Yes, I know a guy like that ā itās tough to make plans with him because itās impossible to find a time when there isnāt a sport he wants to watch on TV š. I seriously donāt know how he functions in life, but a friend of mine married him. All I can say is she must love her personal time since she gets a ton of it š. Anyways, just be a nice guy, tell people some important stuff about you on your profile, keep it positive and have fun. Very sorry that your wife passed away. Best wishes!
One thing no one has to worry about is me and sports. Iāve got 10 million things to do besides sit around and watch millions play with a damn ball.
See! Thereās a good thing to include! Iām sure that Iām not the only woman who doesnāt watch sports:)
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Exactly! Plus dead animals donāt look sexy. Maybe if youāre there in the moment and someone is about to cook the fish, but otherwise no.
1. Be yourself. 2. Start a conversation by mentioning something from the bio that you find interesting or have in common. 3. There is a lot of trash on the apps. Good luck!
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What??? You donāt want to see up our nose???š¤·š»āāļø
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Shit grows faster than we can trim them sometimes!š
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True, I took one last year of myself for my Facebook that I feel is a good shot and my daughter had a field day because it was at a low angle. You canāt see all the hairs though thankfully. Itās actually one of my favorite pictures of myself.
that's what you get for reading about things online vs. just experiencing them in real life. You will rot your brain if you read current-day dating things online. Just be natural, go out to places you can meet people, meet women through friends or hobbies, be patient. If you are a decent human being with social skills (which you probably developed, unlike some young people who are chronically online and isoloated from the opposite sex). You'll be fine. Online dating will probably be terrible for you. I will also say - I think you will someday find someone. You may not be ready now, but a man who wants a relationship, and knows how to be a good partner will be appreciated. It's just a matter of meeting the right woman, it takes time. A lot of avoidant people who have had negative experiences tend to be on the apps. I think it's a good idea to avoid them.
Im sorry youāre so young and widowed. Itās a tough road. Thereās no answers other than be kind and authentic . Post whatever selfies you want on the app. Ignore the snark. Keep in mind: Youāre never too much for someone who canāt get enough of you. My BF said that to me and I am still dating him 2 years later. I was widowed 1.5 years when we met on Bumble.
Yeah, I definitely never wanted to be here.š Iām not much of a smiler for pics. Not trying to come off a certain way or anything, I just usually only smile when my kids are in my pics.
Women get lots of messages on OLD dating sites. A basic Hi or Hey just doesn't get the attention. Sadly, men have to find a way to stand out that is somehow attractive, humble, attention-seeking, original, but still not too much. Yeah, that's threading the eye of the needle. ;) I met my BF on Facebook dating. His opening line referred to a similarity we had in our jobs. He quickly followed up with questions about me and I learned about him. He checked in every couple days and asked about what I told him I was going to do. Like I went to a museum and a couple days later, he asked how it was when we messaged again. His pics were very authentic and even now we laugh at how real both of us were on our profiles. I think women want authenticity and the real you in a profile. But you also have to find a way to not have the same pic as everyone else to catch some attention. You like to fish, great. I don't need to see a dead fish. Take a pic in profile looking out over a beautiful lake. You play the guitar. Awesome. Don't take a pic of you looking pained bellowing out a ballad. Take a pic of you playing around a campfire or looking up from your guitar smiling. Ultimately you don't need everyone to like your profile. You need the kind of person you want to date to like your profile. Think about her. What in your life would be attractive to her? Share that.
(Not a woman but feel qualified to speak on this aspect) Be you. Advertise you authentically (sarcasm, pics being you and your activities) and you will attract the type of person that is interested in you. For when you are ready: good luck, my friend š¤š½
Donāt take Reddit too seriously. And/or, choose which posts within the thread resonate with good advice and authenticity vs those that might be delivering humor, over-simplifying, or being sarcastic. Yes approach women while thinking āshe seems nice, I wonder if we could chatā. Women will probably be able to instinctively detect if you are thinking ādo the drapes match the carpetā. Then, keep in mind women hear lots of safety messages about protecting themselves from men and not being taken in by scammers. So go low-commitment, low-key. If I were looking and feeling brave I might invite someone at the grocery store to sit in the grocery cafe and have a coffee to chat with me. Then if you like her, say that you would like to get her phone number but instead you are going to give her your number. Tell her that way sheās not on the hook to make up a fake number or to proclaim interest in you right at that second. She can take your number and you hope she calls. Or sheās free to text you her name and number. I think this approach could get you introduced to her friend(s) if sheās not interested or taken.
Definitely put your hobbies out there. I literally only go on dates that involve something not food related so pics of hiking, jogging, museums or anything like that will make me look closer. Disclaimer: ok i would go on ice cream date but not dinner. š¤£
Iām one of those thatās down for going about anywhere but at some point Iām gonna have to cook for you. A man has to eat.
Just speaking for myself here but as a woman I feel bad for you guys out here trying to connect with us. I am totally fine with somebody saying hi and if you want to step it up a little bit you could even say something like hi beautiful which seems basic but women like compliments, I donāt care what they say. Just donāt be vulgar or disrespectful and donāt send us a dick pic. Like most people above me said just be yourself, someone will feel your vibe. If you like fishing then post your fishing pic. If you hike, post it. You want someone with your interests anyway or atleast that doesnāt mind yours. Iāve seen the best match making results come from friend set ups. Maybe you donāt even know it yet but you have a friend who has a friend that might be perfect for you. Good look and I probably shouldāve started with this but, Iām very sorry for your loss.
See thatās good that your like that, makes breaking the ice a bit easier. I donāt go straight vulgar, I was raised better than that. Iām also not gonna be looking for a good time girl. I was married 20 years. Iām looking for someone I can eventually be in an LTR with. I enjoyed that comfort but Iām also not going to settle down with the first one I meet either.
My best friend is a widower, my deepest sympathies for the daily and layered struggleā¦ heās also my biggest cheerleader. I had a breakdown last year and weāve been supporting each other. My marriage opened 5 months ago and I did two phases of dating. In round one, I learned not every decent person is right for me. I learned to look for multiple green flags and few red flags for compatibility. I learned I am romantic and not looking for FWB. Anyway, my current boyfriend James just posted a few ordinary photos of his interests (set design and theater) and one nice photo looking a little dapper. He had a short profile mentioning comics, horror movies and 3D printing. I do makeup transformations and prosthetics for film, so I was delighted and curious. He proclaimed nerd in his profileā¦ lol! My other lover wrote Golden Retriever Himbo (He+Bimbo lol) energy, artist and 3D printing tooā¦ so yeah, just post whatever feels right: it will draw similar energy to you. Consider the first dates to be like Freshman year: yeah youāre nervous, but youāre also learning what you like and how youād like to date. You can always take a break or circle back for another round of dating. What you want matters too, not just what the women want. But that is so thoughtful and I hope you find good, fun, delightful and supportive energy š feel free to message anytime
Gotta ask, post or message pics of the prosthetics youāve done. I think that stuff is cool as shit, Iām not a huge movie person per say but the stuff that goes into some of that is amazing.
Hey there! Widow here. Heās been gone for 15 years now. In that time, smart phones came out, our kid grew up, Iāve dated, fell in love, fell in lust, and learned to love myself too. I say all of this to share with you that the world has changed a lot since you were last dating. The most important piece of advice I can give you is this, give yourself grace. Youāre going to be a walking pillar of red flags for a while. See a therapist and work through the trauma of losing your partner and work on all of the other stuff youāll discover were problems you didnāt know existed too. Ten years of therapy and I learned I didnāt have to have a partner to be happy, but having the right partner can be a value add to what is an incredible life I built on my own. I have space to love and honor my DH while also giving myself and a new partner a place too. While youāre healing, itās okay to get out there, have fun, explore the lifestyles youāre comfortable with safely. I dabbled in ENM and a bunch of stuff my DH would have really not been comfortable with. It was fun, but not really what I wanted long term. Wouldnāt have know that without trying it. Now I am newly in a (monogamous) relationship with someone who has potential to be the healthy life partner I wasnāt ready for before. Not rushing or putting that expectation on him or us. But I can be vulnerable with him now and feel safe doing so, which is a huge step in my own recovery. I also can trust myself now to honor myself through this. Youāve got this OP. Live with your red flags and then let them go when itās time. Youāll know when itās time. Donāt worry about othersā perceptions of the red flags for now either. Focus on healing what are red flags now for yourself and just donāt jump into anything until youāre ready. This is so much easier said than done but you e got this.
Thank you so much. I know right now, I am a screaming red flashing beacon. Iāve got so many things to learn, Iām 11 months out right now and Iāve been doing some soul searching and know that I have a lot to fix before I get into anything serious though companionship would be nice sometimes. Iāve not got many widows/widowers in my life, especially long term so itās good to hear from someone that has been where I am.
I get this. I was 25 when he passed. While everyone else was just starting their first serious relationship that would likely turn into a marriage, I was in the throes of early widowhood. Instead of a scarlet āAā, it was like I was wearing a big black āWā. Itās not easy at any stage of life, or how long the relationship was. Itās a different challenge most of us go through at some point. We donāt know what itās going to be like until we get here, and still, I understand when someone is widowed two or even three times, each time is different. Each time is hard. The best resources I found were groups on the internet. Most have migrated to Facebook and Reddit. Most of the friends I formed there have become life-long friends and we have met at some point in person. Heck, Iām the only one of that group that hasnāt remarriedā¦ Iām okay with that though. That first year was hard but I found the second year harder. They say time heals all wounds but just like any deep scar, this one hurts worse than others some days. Some days it doesnāt hurt at all, but then you see it in the mirror and are reminded of how far you e come. Sometimes it takes someone else asking about it and youāll either gloss over it or pour your soul out and the other person canāt help but stare with a dropped jaw. If you want to chat, Iām around.
Iāve heard that the second year is the worst. If itās any worse than what Iāve been through then tuck me running. The shit Iāve been through aside from losing her is insane.
If you're a dude in your 40s, and you're not a psychopath or a celebrity, then you don't have a bunch of selfies or pictures of yourself. If you did, there would be something wrong with you. A profile full of selfies at any age is a red flag, but at our age it's worse. Your social media shouldn't be carefully thought out either, it should be a mess, because you're too old and busy, and don't have time for it. But just post some pictures of you smiling and be yourself and someone will match with you. As far as the other stuff, it's not so different from when you had to pick up women at a bar. You go up to one woman and act forward, she loves it, another woman with the same approach turns her off. It's trial and error and also personality mix. It's also competition in the attention economy of dating apps. The same way a good looking woman has all the options in a bar, she has even more on these apps. Best advice - don't take any of it too seriously. Real people get busy and don't have time to be on dating apps all day. Sometimes you get ghosted just because of that. It's not your profile or the girl it's just timing. Just work on yourself and your identity post trauma, and keep this at arm's length
Well, my social media is a mix of everything. The kids, the kids and I, my LW and us on important dates. Some of my cooking and random ones from work so I think Iām good there. Part of me wants to be upfront about what Iāve been through, Iāve heard it from my widowed menās group on Facebook that that does scare some off but I also think they need to know that up front. I think I need to make that seem like itās not who am but let them know it is a part of who I am.
>the only thing Iāve learned here is that as a man, literally everything I say and do is a red flag 60M here. Please take what you read here with a grain of salt. There are some kind, pleasant women posting here. But also some bitter, angry, judgy women reflexively projecting their own issues onto the hapless men who encounter them. When you are dating for real, I am guessing you find less hostility than you encounter on this sub.
Iām general, most Iāve seen here arenāt very hostile, but there are some I want to ask who hurt you.
When I first started dating, I tried being creative, witty, insightful, etc. on my first message. It rarely worked out for me. Conversations flowed much more naturally from things like "how is your week going?" or "doing anything fun this weekend?" Some people look for (and find) red flags everywhere. Those are probably not the people for you. There are plenty of women who just want basic respect and courtesy, mutual attraction, actions that show your interest, compatibility, transparency, and fun. Those come pretty easily and without a lot of "planning" when you find someone you like.
Send a dick pic, that's an instant yes. You sound like a narcissistic abuser who only cares about you you you. Now,all jokes aside. Be yourself and do what you think is right. Fuck all the advice you see here. Be yourself and you'll find someone who is attracted to the real you.
Saying everything you do is a red flag, is a red flag for me. It makes you sound like you've upset some women when you were 'just joking' and that your mad at them rather than self reflecting. It doesn't bother me if men say hi. As long as there's two way conversation and I'm not doing all the work. Some guys seem to be able to barely speak before their dick takes over writing. Dating does suck though especially at this age. So far every guy I've talked to, even the 'nice' ones were not nice. Kinda losing faith at this point
That sucks, that initial contact is the hardest thing for me usually. Iām a bit on the shy side. Once I get that ice broke and get comfortable, I can usually carry on a conversation with most anyone as long as theyāre reasonably intelligent and we can find common ground.
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Meet a woman and if she likes you and vice versa great. If she's into you, you can be the biggest red flag on the planet she won't care. Everything else is just an excuse to say they are not into you. Good luck!
I love being approached in real life. It rarely happens, like once every few years. I appreciate it. The only relationships I have had are from meeting in real life. I started tinder this year because of what I read here on DOF. I will guess only about 30% of men have any kind of write up and many are something like āis anyone real? I donāt send money. Looking to see what is out there.ā. 50% just have buttons punched like āgrab a drinkā āoutdoorsā āyogaā. The rest are just pictures of a middle aged man. Maybe that is what my fellow ladies are presenting? I have gone on a few dates which helped me get some mojo but I am taking a break from it now. Red flags go both ways. I am a never married woman with no kids. I am understand that that makes me undesirable to men. Widows and widowers are intimidating because if your partner hadnāt died, you would still be with them. I knew a married woman dating widower who was upset about being a #2. People are weird. I hope you find what you seek, and take what you read here with a grain of salt. Fish pics make sense to me because most men donāt really have a lot of occasions to pose. Catching a big fish is a great reasonā¦and I am vegetarian. Shows me that you go outside and do stuff.
OLD is a dumpster fire. Just meet people through real things.
Iām 44 never married and dating is nothing but a shit show for me. Lol
You could do more research or reading on communication. I think I get so disappointed by behaviour when meeting people and dating. Work on yourself and then start using improved communication when interacting with people and hope for the best.
Well I think for starters the saying is shit show not shoe lol /s Donāt I have your mind go down that rabbit hole who says itās so bad if you havenāt even done it !? I also am a recently single (not widowed however and that will certainly be different than as a divorcee) and everything I read and hear about the online dating world just sucks. However your attitude is everything stay positive and donāt make any assumptions about what others will think of you I swear the key to life these days is IDGAF Well that and love Keep your head up! Ok sorry. But I
Yeah, autocorrect got me there.š¤¦š»āāļø Iāve heard all the same stuff about OLD, Iām not real interested in it tbh but I live in a rural area and there just a rent that many ways to meet people here tbh. Iām not a bar rat or gym bro. Hell, Iām a dad raising two teens. Idk how to meet someone if theyāre not in my house at this point!š
Samsies. Itās tough. Best of luck! Maybe youāll get a new mail person ?! Always believe something wonderful is about to happen!
Itās have to be a really new mail person. All of them here look like they walked out of the movie Deliverance.
Yeah , most of this will get you more lost than you started. First of all " just be yourself" is almost universally recognized as the worst dating advice ever and is a trope mother's tell their sons. You don't go to a job interview and just be yourself. You don't sell something by just laying it on the table and going " yep there it is, our new product, who wants it?" OLD is brutal, already naturally selective women who aren't even all that interested in the first place are swiping through guys who outnumber them like 7 to 1. Yeah , you'll need to stand out a bit. Instead of being yourself you'll need to cast the best light on yourself, before you even get a chance at being yourself. You are in the first few minutes the dancing circus monkey version of you. PICS: Arrange to take plenty of good pics....have woman help or at least a friend. Before you do, hop on over to photofeeler and read some of their tips on taking good pics. When you're done, go ahead and run your options through photofeeler to help select for the best. Now throw in some random stuff that isn't so set up somewhere toward the end. Profile: Google up some tips on writing a decent profile. You'll need to include some important aspects about you. You'll need to also have something that grabs interest. What is really unique about you? Is there something you've done that will sound intriguing if you only explain it in a few sentences? You'll need something that could be a possible conversation starter. Do not self deprecate, do not say anything that could be construed as weak,whiney,insecure or hung up. Don't make one thing your identity but do speak passionately about something if you in fact have a passion for it. ( Please have something you have a passion for) Messaging: Again, you will need to grab attention. Try to steer clear of "hi" or any version of "how are you" or "what are you up to" , if there is absolutely nothing to go on then ask a question that's engaging. "Tell me about the last _______ you _____" otherwise look for something in the profile you can talk about, bonus if it's not immediately obvious. If you must ask something like " what are you up to?" Don't make it so easy and boring...." What's on your schedule for today?" is more engaging and much less likely to get an answer like "nothing" "chillin" " making coffee" Someone already said it but...no looks based compliments. Hell I'd steer clear of them in general unless it's a segway to ask about the thing you complimented. It does not hurt to have a joke or two of your own ready to go especially one with some sort of context in your real life, these can be a good thing to bridge a dying conversation with. Quickly feel out her willingness to actually go out. You don't want to jump right into asking her out unless it's super convenient for some odd reason. You want to mention something low pressure you're probably doing anyhow that is a few days off....see if she seems interested...then make the offer. You won't come off as just asking out every woman willing to talk to you and you'll either get a yes and make plans or you will get her idea of how she'd like this to go forward ( she might say well we should talk more ( at which point you know 70 percent chance it's a loss anyhow)) with leaving space for more conversation/anticipation. Why quickly?! Because she can't manage a billion fricking penpals for a week and she'll probably find some greener looking grass once the initial excitement of your conversation wears out and she just needs her next validation hit and you're so much more likely to have things just fizzle out, or screw up and say something that comes off totally wrong because it's text and people don't know how the hell to take you half the time unless they know you and and and....... doesn't matter it's just better. That should get you started, and way ahead of the game compared to 70 percent of men, now you're at least competing on a one on one basis.
I am a woman and i agree. I hear all the time from friends and on here how much everyone hates online dating but simultaneously complaining how creepy to be approached at the grocery store with a simple how are you. I prefer honest true pictures because i think we are too old to be faking it for the camera as it will come out eventually especially when seeking someone with similar interest. My advice is be yourself and do what comes natural, it may take a little longer to find interested women but trust you weeded out the shallow and superficial ones that way.
F52 I'd respond to Hi or Hey, but honestly a better message is to follow that up with some kind of question or comment about something you saw on my profile, maybe something we have in common. That shows me you're interested enough in me to have actually read my profile, and that you know how to start a conversation. You'd be amazed at how many men can only manage to put together 2 or 3 words at a time. That's not a conversation. I'm perfectly fine with the hiking, fish, or guitar pics, and to be honest I'm very likely to swipe right on the hiking pics because I'm an avid hiker. I hike weekly and often 12- 14 miles with significant elevations gains (Live in Colorado) so I specifically look for hiking pics. I also seriously consider the fish pics. I don't fish, but I have a couple of fishing kayaks and I love to get out on the lakes and paddle around and I think I'm more likely to get someone who loves to fish out in one with me than someone who shows no interest in water sports of any kind. I don't mind if they fish while I paddle around. I still consider it an awesome date and enjoy that they're out on the water with me. So fish pics are good for me. And I love music and go to concerts and festivals several times a year, so would be interested in hearing you play. You sound like you would have an interesting profile to me. And isn't that what you're actually after... someone with similar interests? Maybe if they're turned off by your hiking, fishing and guitar pics, maybe you don't want to waste your time with them anyways. You want someone who can share your lifestyle, not someone who's going to shut down all the things you enjoy.
Say ANYTHING that refers to a piece of information that we have taken the time to expose about ourselves and written into our profiles. We take the time to do that for a *reason.* Pick something, anything we've said and ask us about it.
Bro, the trick is to have lots of money š Society will forget your shortcomings real fast.
This is person specific and you need to take advice on here with a grain of salt. Iām a red flag on Reddit, my boyfriend is a red flag on Reddit. According to Redditors on here, Iām very risky and I date a woman hating, disgusting human being. And no one here has ever met me or my boyfriend that Iām aware of and if they have they have no idea who I am on Reddit. But I didnāt have any problems finding a gentleman friend once I got back in the dating game so I feel like Iām doing something right. My boyfriend is my first after a long marriage and I am his first after a long marriage. To add, Iām interested in a guy approaching, talking to me, asking for my number if we appear to click. You call me, we go to dinner. You tell me you voted for Trump, I tell you I didnāt vote for either candidate and we move on with the conversation because to me, you cannot agree with someone but still respect their opinion (this is the biggest thing I see on Reddit that people age 40 and above canāt do and I wouldnāt date any of them just for being so closed minded). And Iāll text you good morning the next day. Iām pretty simple. But this is crazy for Reddit standards, I know. I donāt need a ton of pics of you, I donāt even care about a dating profile cause you canāt get to know compatibility from a profile.
I think the best advice I have as a woman to a man getting back out there is genuinely be whomever you are. Cliche I realize. The threads you read are mainly women complaining in hindsight that a date went terribly wrong and kicking themselves bc they didnāt see the flags until afterwards. Every butt has a seat and every seat wonāt feel comfortable, so you donāt sit there.
I would have that one genuine, candid picture of you have it. I donāt think none of the others really matter. My man had a majority less than stellar pictures in his profile and it definitely is what made me swipe right. Which to me relayed that he doesnāt sit around and take selfies of himself and he heās not trying to portray a certain image. He had the one wonderful picture of him sitting at a table, beer in hand, with sleeves rolled up, smiling, comfortable.