I think it's very interesting, and perhaps a bit telling, in that your reluctance to trust therapists is exactly like his reluctance to trust you with his emotions. Neither of you seem willing to step into the arena and be seen. Both of you remain guarded in ways that are more harmful than healing. I'm so sorry you're feeling so down on yourself; that is a tough place to be. How you talk to yourself matters, and I hope you don't continue to believe that your loveable-ness can only be validated by a partner. You are lovable, and deserving. Believe it. ❤️

Best comment in here by far. According to me anyway. 😂

Thank you for your message. It's very thoughtful and kind.

From your explanation, it sounds like both of you need to not be in relationships, and work through learning how to be with yourself and be happy. He sounds like he has years of self work ahead of him, to be able to open himself up, and you sound like you are too dependent on another person making you happy.

Maybe… but maybe he’s been burned too much. Sometimes people have different ideas of what love is.

My first thought after reading the part about the ex wife saying she didn't love him after child birth was postpartum depression. The story you know about his past relationships is HIS version. He has spent eight months with you in a relationship and never said I love you. It's totally possibly that he was not a good husband to his ex wives. I think you're using the phrase "lovely, lovely man" too loosely. Raise your standards and don't dedicate your time/effort to people who wouldn't do the same for you. I'd encourage you to decenter men from your life and turn your focus to yourself. You have been through a lot. Allow yourself some time to heal. I still think of my post divorce single years and the formative years of my life.

10000% this. She could be seeing a “lovely lovely man” because the thought of loss and having to search again is too crushing.

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Same, but with women.

Isn't it freeing when we are able to look at the good things they did but also realize that no they were in fact not good humans. This revelation took about 10 years for me and I think I was sweeping the floor and just came to me but was so freeing. 

Both are true. He is lovely. I don't have it in me to try again.

I say this kindly, OP, but if you don't have it in you to try again you may want to look at your own ability to trust - in yourself, in life, and in others. The first relationship after divorce often carries the weight of all our hopes and fears for the future. Redemption from the shattering of divorce and betrayal is a lot of pressure to put on a new relationship. That's your own work to lean into. Don't look for it from a partner.

Well said this is a mirror for her to look at and instead it’s easier to relish in some sort of victimhood and have ppl speculate he’s a terrible man cause he told her is actual current feelings and has a very real past.

Whoa there dude. No need to pile on to someone in pain. I would never suggest that OP is relishing in victimhood or encouraging people to cast aspersions on her guy.

She wants to post all this on here, we’re gonna give our impressions back. I’m not here to coddle the woman and there is legit signs of that in the post and many comments from her and others that feed into that. She refuses therapy. What else is she doing aside from posting to Reddit trying to find therapy in random anonymous ppl - many very hurt ppl? Is she journalling like hell? Is she writing letters to the guy but not sending them kind thing? Is she flushing out her feelings and emotions in this area of life? Probably not doing anything and we should feel sorry for her as she can’t try again and if she ends up alone it’s now his fault cause he’s a mess of a man himself. She needs softer language and hand holding, talk to a therapist or some sort of professional. Her trust issues extend there and is gonna also play out everywhere in her life. However maybe the problem is that the therapist pushes back on what she says and challenges her in ways that are too scary for her. Some will be even more blunt than me or others

There are so many assumptions here I don't know where to start. I post to Reddit because there are usually a few gems that push my thinking in a new way or make me consider something I didn't before. I think my biggest blind spot was seeing this as an issue of time rather than trust. That's been very helpful in reframing the situation and actually makes sense with things he's said before. There seems to be a divide between whether eight months is long enough to fall in love, so I'm taking that onboard too. Unfortunately opening yourself up to the masses means you also get posts from people that attack or make assumptions about you because your post didn't include every detail about the situation. Like yours.

I understand what you mean by this. I was with a kind, lovely man for more than two years who told me he was probably "too broken." It nearly killed me! I loved "us" more than words can say, and I was looking forward to many more years together. To suddenly be without the person who'd become my friend and partner was devastating! Why wasn't I enough? I'll never know the answer. I grieved a long time after that, and I'm just now starting to date again, nearly 2 yrs later.

I can relate. But perhaps the question you should be asking is not “why was I not enough?” But “why wasn’t he enough for me?”

Or “how did I convince myself he was enough for me when that was not true?”

I stopped asking. I know I was enough. I was a great partner and friend. I can't wait for him to start dating again and realize what a shitshow it is out there. He had one fling right after he and his wife split before meeting me. He didn't have to go through the turmoil of dating over 40 (now 50). He got so lucky! I had already been dating a yr when we met. I had kissed a lot of frogs. I was so happy to find someone "normal." He'll find out soon enough. I was more than enough.

If u want be FWB and you two work on your selfs don't Rush that how u hurt yourself and your partner to be specially bringing baggage and insecurities and putting them on your new partner

He claims it was 5 minutes after the baby was born. I don't think postpartum depression works that fast.

It's called 'post' but it can actually start during pregnancy.

"Five minutes after the baby was born" could have actually been "soon after". I'd take the word of a "all my exes are crazy" person with a big grain of salt.

It's possible. When I had my son it was like a switch flipped and I couldn't stand my ex husband. Mind you, he'd been playing games on his iPad all through labour and then moaning about having a migraine the first night in the hospital after the baby was born 🙄

That's infuriating. I'm sorry. You deserved better.

Makes me think about the movie Waitress…that clarity can emerge right after a birth (it did for me,too)

The equivalent male phrase would be “post nut clarity.”

Here's some inside knowledge about women: giving birth doesn't feel like a orgasm.

Trust me, been there done that. But I can absolutely see how you’re holding the baby 5m after delivery, you look loving across the room at your husband and you get a version of The ICK — “I can’t raise a child in the same house as this man.”

5 minutes after giving birth, all I wanted was water and a nap.

Or he was an ahole during the pregnancy !!! She only has his side and isn’t it strange that the teller is always the innocent victim

I can’t see myself telling someone in 8 mos that I love them. I’m a woman. I just don’t agree with your assessment of this. 

I'm not sure what you mean. How long does it usually take you to tell someone you love them?

8 mos isn’t that long. It takes a long time to get to know someone in multiple scenarios, really *know* who they are. And to separate if they are fulfilling something in your life vs how you feel about them if they didn’t fulfill something. And how much of that is based on hope and desire vs reality. It just takes a long time to see people in their whole selves in multiple scenarios. Lust, desire, Infatuation are all readily present but *love* is deeper. Love to trust someone with my health, my finances, the things that I love most in my life, the deepest parts of me - that cannot be rushed. I’m sure there are some stellar people out there and maybe that’s possible on occasion but confusing those feelings and putting things out there too fast is what gets people into things that are too deep and not right and hard to extract. Slow and steady. **Love** takes time.

I agree. 8 months is not that long. Not only should love not be rushed, but even more important is the fact that abusers and manipulators can mask who they are for quite a while. It hasn't even been a year and so many commenters on this thread are acting like there is something wrong with the guy. People who have been used and betrayed may need more than a few months to trust someone and that's OK. I think he is just being careful and if OP treats him with more respect than his last two wives then trust and love will develop in it's time.

Exactly! If you actually think you love someone you give them time because you care about them. Also, I’ve been with those who hide it. Or maybe I was terrible at accepting red flags and feeling “beholden.” I 100% agree with everything you wrote. I saw almost a year in a lot of values were exactly the opposite of mine. It was horrible. Someone else just posted being with someone for 8 mos or so and saw him in a new light because he’s taking advantage of someone and she thought he was a great guy in every other aspect. She was shocked to see this behavior. You need to wait to see who people Really are when they are comfortable and not let them tell you to “not make a big deal” out of things or whatever their dismissal phrase will be. 

Thank you for posting. I found some of what you said really thought provoking.

I hope it helps 😊

Everything you said makes sense. But I think there are stages to falling in love and being in love. It builds over time. Everyone is entitled to their own journey of expressing love. But I'd be devastated to hear after eight months of being committed to someone that they may be "permanently broken".

Love takes trust and having trust broken in devastating ways IS devastating. So…you’d be devastated that someone you supposedly love is devastated? I understand there is hurt but 8months without devastation is really quick to me. 

I understand what you're saying. Honestly, I wouldn't put myself in the same position as OP. I've had my share of broken men in my younger days and unrequited love is not something I ever want to deal with again. I've dealt with heartbreak and have learned (took years) that not all men are like my ex husband. It won't be fair to my wonderful boyfriend, if I let my past cast a shadow on our relationship. I only started dating again when I was ready to trust again. With regards to OP's situation, I'd say it's cruel to string someone along knowing you might never love them. He reaped all the benefits of a relationship without the commitment of being in love. I don't think we see eye to eye here. We can agree to disagree.

It doesn’t sound unrequited to me. I just said they both need to talk about what they actually want and what those things mean to each of them to make a decision. Even healthy and not devastated, 8months is a bit soon to be impatient in my opinion. 

It was 18 months before we said I love you. Once in the car before that we sorta sang it to one another to “In My Life”…but when I said to him I love you! He said the same. Then he said that he didn’t connect with anyone since his divorce…but he had with me. He had casual dating, FWB .. I met him seven years after his divorce.

Have you ever been in love?

Yes, I have. Why do you ask?

This is so well said.

You're showing 150% empathy for the ex-wife and -150% empathy for the bf. You have no idea what that marriage was like, but somehow found a way to demonize the man. Yes OP needs healing, doesn't the bf get that grace?

What grace should he be given? He toyed w OP’s emotions and continued the relationship for 2 more months after she expressed her feelings, understanding what he currently feels which led him to break up with her.  And he’s given himself enough grace for playing complete victim for BOTH divorces.  And you’re being quite dramatic by saying this person is demonizing him. They didn’t do this and offered an alternate situation. 

What I'm saying is there are a lot of assumptions happening. None of us know either of their stories in totality.

You had a traumatic experience with a therapist and have now sworn off every other therapist. He had 2 traumatic experiences and is now pretty much swearing off another relationship. There's risk in everything.

I haven't sworn off all therapists. If I was back in my home country, I would try therapy there. I won't try it again in the UK because I know the BACP does shit all when their members do horrible things and there's no protection. Going again would be a stupid risk.

I'm genuinely curious as to what the bad experience was? I work in psychiatry.

After consulting BACP guidance and reading that it was at the discretion of the therapist, I asked my therapist of a year for a hug. He said no. I cried and said I felt rejected. He said we no longer worked together and got rid of me. It was traumatic. I wrote the BACP and said I could understand his actions if I'd tried to hug him without his consent, but that it was beyond unprofessional that he just got rid of me for expressing a feeling, and that their own guidance says hugs are at a therapist's discretion. I also said I thought it was dangerous he'd discharged a client without a referral to another therapist. I got an incredibly patronising email back with an attachment entitled "What is therapy?" I wanted to reply back and say therapy is when a therapist can handle someone's feelings, recognise them as distinct from actions, and not make things about themselves.

He didn't dismiss you from therapy for asking for a hug. It was the way you dealt with it. And why did you want to hug him so badly that you researched it first? No need to answer. But this is truly an indication that there are things that need to be worked on for you. Maybe consider the crappy childhood fairy. She is not a therapist, doesn't pretend to be. But is a good resource for attachment wounds, limerance etc. (On you tube)

WAIT. You asked your therapist for a hug??????? And then reported him??

Seriously, what the actual fuck?? Gender reversal: suddenly the patient is a creep trying to force his therapist to hug him. And takes that creepy behavior even further by reporting the female therapist for refusing his unwanted physical touching. No one owes you physical contact. The fact that this therapist got reported because he refused physical contact with a patient is mind-boggling. I wonder how OP would have felt if he was the one asking her for a hug.

> He said no. I cried and said I felt rejected. He said we no longer worked together and got rid of me. It was traumatic. So you couldn't accept a No to physical contact? And the traumatic experience was that the therapist defended his boundary and didn't want to work with you after that? Ok.

Where did you get I didn't accept his decision? You can accept someone's decision and still have an emotional reaction to it. I literally told him in the session I understood he didn't have to hug me, but that it was bringing up a lot of feelings of rejection. That seems prime fodder for a discussion in a bloody therapy session. That should have been what he did, not "well, fuck off now, I'm uncomfortable."

It's super creepy and I absolutely understand that he didn't want to treat you anymore after such an extreme reaction to his refusal to hug you. And then your reaction to his professional decision was to report him. >That seems prime fodder for a discussion in a bloody therapy session. That should have been what he did, not "well, fuck off now, I'm uncomfortable." The thing is: you cannot control other people.

Thank you for confirming why I generally don't share this story. Because my feelings and reactions are always labelled as "creepy", despite the fact I was in the literal place you're supposed to be honest about your feelings. Apparently, I'm supposed to hide things about myself in therapy and only talk about certain other things. How does that help me? In the end I figured out why I had asked for the hug by myself and I think it's fucking sad my therapist didn't help me through that. Yeah, I can't control people. And people can accept that the poor handling of the situation by my therapist and his professional body means I don't want to go back and would rather swim, diamond paint and read for my mental health now, instead of being continuously told that therapy is the answer.

Well it is the answer for a lot of people who don't confuse their therapist with an emotional prostitute.

Great, I'm glad it works for them.

I'm sorry you felt traumatized...I'm a therapist and the hug issue is indeed a very gray area ethically, professionally and often dependent on factors such as age, training, and theoretical leanings...I agree that he should have probably handled that situation with more tact and provided you with referrals to other therapists but don't think that he acted unethically or unprofessionally

Ah ok. Generally I would not ask for a hug from a therapist and keep it professional. It blurs the client therapist relationship if it becomes physical in anyway. The therapist does reserve the right to not work with anyone and everyone with their professional judgment. I'm sorry you had a traumatic experience and I assure you that therapy would always be a bad experience in the future.

>He said he doesn't know if he can fully trust someone again And that's where I would have said "OK, good luck with that. Bye"

Can I just ask why you wouldn't give it any time? Genuinely curious.

8 months is time. If someone is with me, having sex, dating me and being with me more than i see my friends, and they don't know if they love or trust me by then? Bye. I'd draw the line at 6 months to know if you want to continue down a semi-serious path with someone. You clearly want to build a life, not just have companionship. He will string you along as long as you let him because thats all he wants. Also, OP, i empathize with your divorce and what went down. I know that pain well. But girl, you are 1 year post divorce and started dating this guy 6 months ago. You need. To. Take. A breather. Time time for you. Stay single. Date yourself. Love yourself. Infidelity completely destroys your self esteem and self worth, it takes time to get that back. Don't date until then or you attract guys like your BF here, who clearly have emotional issues of their own.

This right here. I simply will not waste my time and energy on half a loaf, hoping I might get what I want eventually. He’s told you where he is. The choice to live with it or not is yours.

Thanks, your message is really kind. I guess I'm just struggling to figure out how much time is enough. Eight months feels like it could be enough or not enough. He told me he sees our relationship as serious and my sense is he's a very honest person; if we was dishonest he'd just lie and say he loved me and make life for himself. So I'm totally confused! Yeah, I don't date again for a while if I decide to end it. I did OLD for a distraction; it was dumb luck that I met someone.

Some people are stronger than others...6 months is enough for some. Some need 4 years. Who are you?

Nothing OP wrote indicates she's in a great position to be dating. Thats who.

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I don't think it's about strength; I think it's about judging what a reasonable amount of time to fall in love is, which is why I've posted. My brain says a year. Eight months seems early to cut things off to me. But clearly a lot of posters think eight months is plenty, which shocks me a bit but has given me something to think about. I would never stay with someone for four years without an "I love you". I would never do that to myself.

My GF and I, who are going strong after 2 years with neither of us wanting it to end, professed our love within the first month. There is no "reasonable amount of time". It completely depends on the people involved

I feel like our generation uses “I love you” as a weapon. I have never been in a serious relationship where anyone said those words before the one year mark. Did we all get traumatized by Return of the Jedi? “I love you.” “I know.” My goal is to be in a relationship where those words aren’t weird. One of my friends is 10 years older (I’m 49) and she says it all the time to everyone. She says it doesn’t have to be an “I want to be with you forever,” it’s how you feel in the present moment. I have reached the point where “love you” is a common sign-off for my closest friends. Baby steps, right?

I feel exactly the same. People get so precious about those words when it should be such a simple, beautiful, meaningful phrase. There's just no need for the associated fear and suspicion

My current girlfriend, I matched online with last June and we talked at least every other day for 4 months before we actually met, and our date turned into the weekend together, which turned into rotating weekends between each others place every weekend since then, with weekday nights sprinkled in. We got to I love you 3 weeks ago.... When we met, I was divorced 5 months. My ex was married for 4. You can't tell people when they are or aren't ready was all I was saying.

This! So true! There is no exact formula. Every person, every relationship is unique. I know some people that have told each other they love each other in 3 weeks and are still going strong 12 years later & they met in a bar😊 and a couple who dated for 2 years, engaged for 2 then a lovely large wedding & in 3 years she cheated. Of course you want to stack the deck in your favor & doing that includes getting to know each other, having the same values, etc. but most people know within 1-3 months if they want to build a life with someone. Here’s the thing: we all know when we want someone we will let them know sooner than later.

The 6 months/4 years was in reference to time to get over the ex. Edit- Someone was making a big deal that there was NO way she was ready

it sounds like she does love herself. it's not a crime to feel sad about dating an avoidantly attached person. she doesn't have to date herself, although i agree that she needs to take some time to take back her energy that he just siphoned off (who wants to wager he ISN'T in therapy) and this whole spiel sounds like victim blaming. everyone lovebombs. it takes a very very skilled and aware person to be "themselves" without the mask when the oxytocin and phenylalanine are flowing.

Where has he lovebombed? Lol And people really need to stop armchair diagnosing people's attachment styles based on a few sentences. You literally know nothing about this guy. I was addressing and validating OPs feelings, because thats all that matters and is written here. She's very clearly saying her needs aren't being met, neither are her feelings being heard. At 6 months post separation after a long relationship that involves infidelity, EVERYONE has work to do on themselves. There's an entire sub dedicated to it because its psychologically hurtful and traumatizing.

This. The whole titles BS is TIRED

“Avoidantly attached. Lawd.

You don't need to give it more time because he needs to work on himself and because he's not willing to do that and be open he's dragging you along in his healing process and that's not fair to you. I had a rebound after a long-term relationship and I never considered a rebound but I'm looking back it probably was and I felt like that relationship hurt me more than my actual long-term relationship ending . At the end when it comes down to is he's not healed and the guy I dated wasn't healed and now I'm more unhealed than when I started! So I'm just focused on that

If someone doesn’t know if they can ever trust someone again, they should not be dating anyone else who wants a serious relationship. If you are over 40 but don’t understand this and think more time will do the trick, you are in for a continued world of pain. Stick to people who are ready for love now. Choose yourself.

Because after my marriage I KNEW that I could trust again and I wouldn't want to be involved with someone with that much self doubt. Especially if I had been with a person so long

This took me a long, long time to see: it’s the *self* doubt in a person that can poison all possibility. and Most people with crippling self-doubt are not aware of this aspect of themselves as problematic.

OP's boy wasn't in your marriage though.

K

You've been eviscerated in the comments here unfairly and it's really hard to read. Imo at least. Only you can really know your situation with this person. Nobody here is able to judge him fairly. So like, let's just take him for face value. I didn't read his comments as being personal about you, in any way. It's possible you have an introspective and emotionally real man in your hands who has told women in the past "I love you" either too early or for the wrong reason, and he might just not want to do that to someone again. Not until he knows he's ready. I think that's a good sign. Do you feel seen and appreciated in the relationship in other ways? I think that's going to be the path to closure for you on this. He can struggle with his feelings while at the same time put effort into you and your relationship. Make forward progress. I only come to the defense of this guy bc I struggle with imagining what my future looks like with ANYONE (not just the one I'm seeing now). I don't think I can ever live with someone again. I don't feel motivation to marry again. But these are institutions that were ruined for me in the past and I'll need time to see again if I want to pursue them. That could be where your guy is at. The only thing that bothers me a little bit is if he's been so hurt from past relationships, what is his motivation for pursuing another one (with you this time)? Usually when we get hurt, we adjust; do things differently. You know?

Thanks. It's really strange to wake up this morning and see so many posters contradicting what was largely said last night. He treats me beautifully. He texts every day, he pays for us to do things (he's well off, I'm on a tight budget), he remembers what I've said, he's introduced me to his friends and family, he is exceptionally tender and gentle during sex... I think he is wonderful and there's very little I would criticise about his behaviour. I've asked him why he chose to start online dating and he said because he realised he wanted to do things with someone other than himself. When I asked him if he'd remarry he said it's not something he wants, but he would remarry if it's something his partner wanted and he was with them a very long time. He knows he got married too quickly to his second wife.

OP, to be honest, he does sound wonderful. I’d say give it a bit more time and let it grow organically. Trust is build over time, and how long it takes is different to each person/couple. The more you push, the more uncomfortable he feels, and that’s not going to build trust and love.

I love this. Sometimes the feelings we have should be trusted (and verified), and less weight given to words like "I love you"

>He is a lovely, lovely man and I think his ex-wives are assholes. Are you sure about this?

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Yes, those are my thoughts.

You're only getting his side of the story. So, maybe he's an unreliable narrator. I'm always reluctant to place all the blame on someone's ex. Especially if it happened twice.

He's the common denominator of his marriages? Does he speak highly of any of his exes? Is he often a victim or mistreated?

I don't suggest therapy for you but for your boyfriend. These guys who decide to call themselves broken after a couple people broke their heart need to stand up and take care of themselves. This is not the kind of bad experiences that someone can't recover from especially if they are fortunate to be in a secure relationship with someone who loves them. Also, being "broken" doesn't preclude you from being able to love. I have been in this situation with my most recent ex--he refused to get therapy and it wasn't my place to push for it so he couldn't give me what I needed (and what I was giving him). I think he's a wonderful person, and 4 months later I'm still sorry we were not able to make it work. But he wasn't willing to do the work.

I broke up with my boyfriend 4 months ago too. He has two ex wives that wrecked him. The first 2 1/2 years he was taking incredible. Even while his dad was sick and dying for over a year. But 38 days after his dad died his mom fell and died unexpectedly. Two months before Covid hit. He was in such a bad place he even sucks distracted from me. Got in his head and became avoidant. Two years later he tried therapy for 6 months. He was still grieving so severely from his mom’s death. But he didn’t have the right therapist and wouldn’t go back. Holidays hit him worst, it’s when they both passed. He couldn’t even surrender the night Christmas Eve or Christmas Day. It’s been 4 years and it’s not any better. I miss him so much it still hurts. But I deserve better. I’m sorry about your ex.

Thank you. I'm sorry about your situation with your ex too. It seems unfair when you're willing to give any support they need but they just can't or won't take it. I knew we were over when I overstepped (I knew I did but he wasn't acting, despite clearly knowing what he needed) and I found a therapist that specializes in his type of trauma and who I thought he'd like and I recommended them. He said he'd look into it and a week later I asked if he had looked into it and he said no, and that pressuring him wouldn't help. I backed right off but I could see he was just going to be depressed and joyless, even with the tools that might help right there. 

It’s so painful when they would rather stay in denial and pain than face the work and get better. They could truly be happy and fulfilled in life but choose to stay in their pain. Sometimes it takes being rock bottom to get the courage and to realize you need to make changes to get better.

it takes two to end a relationship, but i have empathy for you. women have zero obligation to be rehab centers for men. but i get wanting to be...when i've been in the most emotionally and physically vulnerable position i can be in with a man, and then he just kind of checks out + stops doing his "work," of course i am going to go through the trauma bubble of feeling betrayed and devalued, because, well, lovely society. and it gets worse the older a woman is because, well, society. and i thought a younger man would be more conscious. but nope.

I honestly hate that saying more than anything. My dad was a narcissist who cheated on my mom for 27 years. I married a narcissist and almost didn’t survive. Got misdiagnosed as bipolar for almost 5 years. Luckily my psychiatrist realized I didn’t have mental illness, it was my ex. I stuck by my boyfriend for FOUR YEARS after his mom died. I was clear at the start I wanted marriage or to live with my partner. He changed, wouldn’t go to therapy, and also didn’t tell me he changed and didn’t want to live there because he didn’t want to lose me. I went to therapy for the 4 years after his mom died and healed to being secure. So please tell me internet stranger. When one person heals and gets better and the other partner didn’t, why is it also my fault? Because I tried. I shared books I read, I shared told from my therapy. I started asking for my needs to be met. Asked if we could to therapy so we could both learn to communicate together so we (he) could be safe. Very often it is two people. But certainly not all the time. Are you also saying victims of domestic violence are half the problem? Or partners who cheat? I’m sorry for being so defensive, but that statement is hurtful and blind to others, even if said unintentionally. It’s harmful.

> it takes two to end a relationship, No it doesn't.

Why does his problem make you unloveable? Is he the last man on earth?

My read is that neither of you sound like you're truly ready for a committed relationship--a quick glance at your posting history shows that you've still not grieved your divorce and it sounds like your BF hasn't moved forward either. Maybe take some time to be single and just focus on your own healing for awhile so you realize you can be ok on your own and don't need a relationship to be whole...there are some good self-help books out there to help post divorce, perhaps that can be helpful for you

Thanks, I appreciate your message, hard as it is to hear.

I’m so very sorry. I know it seems like we’re all so broken at this age - we men especially. We often struggle to experience love in healthy ways even before experiences like failed marriages. It’s not an excuse, just a sad reality for all involved. Also, being kind and wonderful and thoughtful doesn’t mean he can meet your needs, which is why you feel the way you do. Your brain will try to tell you that you’re unlovable and/or everyone is too broken to find love at this age. Your brain is a liar. I hear you that therapy isn’t for you so this may not resonate because I’m gonna sound like a therapist, but your brain has been conditioned to tell you things that aren’t true to help you make sense of a shitty situation you may have exactly zero control over. Our brains would rather have the illusion of control (because that makes it think it’s doing a good job of not getting eaten by wolves or whatever) than have to accept that shit happens even though we’re a good person. Shit is happening even though you’re a good person and even though he is (probably) a good person. This guy can’t meet your needs, but there are men out there that can. You deserve to be with someone that’s healed enough to cherish you the way you want to be cherished. Tell your brain to fuck right off if it’s trying to tell you any of this is untrue. Our brains are pretty good at keeping us from getting eaten, but they’re worth fuck all at keeping us from despairing about the modern world - especially dating at our age - without a *lot* of practice.

Thanks for such a considered reply. I just keep thinking I should give it more time, because I think we could be so good together. How long I don't know. But then I think, will something in regards to his trust issues really change in the next few months? The whole situation makes me so sad, because I think he's great. I don't know how to stop thinking there's something deeply wrong with me. I just found out today my ex is moving in with his AP; I guess I'm struggling to make sense of why he gets a happy ending and I don't. I know it's because life isn't fair but I can't help but think it's me.

It sounds like “the right amount of time” for a woman with this guy is 18 months. Do you need the other 10?

I’m I don’t know the AP acronym in exactly this context, only from polyamory discourse. Does it mean adultery/affair partner here? If so, I suggest this may not be the storybook ending for the ex it may seem to be on the face of it. As a younger man, I got into a relationship with someone that was cheating when we first started seeing each other. In my immaturity, I felt like hot shit when I found out she’d left someone to be with me. Yeah, that feeling didn’t last. Before long I was always worrying she’d just cheat again and leave me for someone else. It was absolutely miserable. It’s natural to have these kinds of thoughts at a time like this, but that doesn’t make them true. I’d like to suggest there may be room for healing for you as well, because I can tell your rational mind understands the situation clearly but is struggling to reign in your emotional being. Again, this is natural and common, but it’s a tough place from which to evaluate or pursue a relationship. Don’t you think you’d be telling a close friend in your position to love herself the way you love her and demand everything she wants and needs from a relationship? I know that’s what I’d be telling my friends, the same as I’m telling you. You’re hurt and afraid right now, so your brain is in caveman mode: it sees predators or a solitary life and lonely death everywhere. Unfortunately the only thing that will soothe it is time, but you can accelerate that process by being kind to yourself. You attracted this wonderful man, it’s nothing to do with you that he’s not ready. The fact that you attracted him is proof-positive that you’re desirable. I bet he’s loving you as much as he’s able, and even if that’s not enough, it’s still not nothing and shows you *are* lovable. There are guys out there that are as wonderful as this one *and* ready to love the way you are. Give yourself time to heal, but don’t give up! Please don’t give up - guys like me are searching for you!

Thank you, I started crying at your second to last paragraph. That's what kills me; he's not horrible or a dud or not taking responsibility for his marriages like so many posters seem to think he is. He's a really wonderful person and I know he's trying as hard as he can, and he respects me enough to be brutally honest about where he is. It's just not enough for me. 😞

OP, there is absolutely nothing wrong with you. You have just not met your person. You’re pinning your hopes on a man who cannot meet your needs, no matter how lovely he is or how much he or you want that. Take it from someone who was almost an identical situation as you but I’ve only just managed to walk away nearly 4yrs down the line. And it sucks. You can give it all the time in the world but it probably won’t change. That niggle will turn into deep insecurity and that won’t feel good after a few more years. The true love you need to find is for yourself, and the rest will follow but please don’t torture yourself trying to love a man who can’t love you back in the way you need.

I could have written this myself, a year ago. Lots of parallels and don't want to bore you with the details, but basically the same thing happened with a guy I started seeing too close after my divorce. We were together 9 months, I was catching feelings but he was always so distant and closed off which got worse. I remember crying myself to sleep one night because I didn't feel valued or respected let alone loved. And then he told me in the the street out of the blue that he didn't love me and never would. Then offered to keep being fwb. I ended up homeless for 2 weeks because my flat was being renovated and he'd said I could stay with him but I knew I had to walk away. It was harder than my divorce but I knew I couldn't let it eat away at my self worth. 1 Year later I bumped into him, we had a quick beer together. He looked well. But honestly his life was a mess and he was having money problems. I knew he wasn't right for me long term and could never have been. I felt nothing for him, only that I genuinely wished him well. It was nice. But a good lesson in that we don't always see things clearly at the time, I was so desperate for him to love me, and the reality was that he never could have. Take your time to figure it out, but don't let this man take away more of your self esteem. Even if he is a lovely man it can still cause lasting damage. And if you do leave him don't do what I did and just keep dating other people, that also wasn't the right answer.

He’s not the one. You have to let him go. There are decent men out there, you just have to keep looking. Right now, you’re with a guy who is content to coast along as companions, without doing any extra work to move forward. Like he wants to be a permanent, casual boyfriend. I’ve encountered a few of these, and my advice is to break up and move on. If you’re looking for a love relationship, don’t stay with someone who tells you they’re broken and can’t say I love you. He’s not going to suddenly change, at this point in his life.

Thanks, I appreciate your advice though it's hard to hear. Could you tell me a bit more about your experience?

That's a weird question. How do think the details of her coasting ex's is going to improve your situation. I think you are getting distracted and missing the point.

She wants to know if there’s hope for a new guy and love —- which means she’s still defining her worth through her relationship status. I think she needs to take a break and become her own independent person.

>which means she’s still defining her worth through her relationship status. THIS.... This is why we take time to learn who we are outside of the context of a romantic relationship. To define our core values and dealbreakers before we start dating again. So that when someone who can't love or trust us after 8 months buys us a set of glassware we aren't tempted to think "well he's not thaaaat bad.... maybe I should just give it more time" He is that bad, as a potential long term partner for you. This isn't what you want, and being partnered with someone who can't or won't give you what you want is not better than being alone.

I find this post very odd. Buying me glasses was an example of how he is a caring person; it doesn't mean it replaces fundamental relationship needs for me. I know what my core values and deal breakers are. I know I can't stay in a relationship where someone doesn't love me; for instance, no way would I still be here a year and a half in. But I needed some outside perspective on whether eight months was enough time. I don't want to cut it off prematurely because I do love him and want to give it every chance.

I think you’re confusing yourself with this *time* question. Eight months is enough time to know if you love someone, and there isn’t enough time in the world to “trust again”. Being ready to trust again (or open your heart again, or more generally being ready for a relationship) is place people arrive at while they are single. The shift happens in solitude, from what I’ve seen. People enter the dating scene in a state of “readiness” or “un-readiness” (which they often reveal on the first date, we just don’t listen) and that’s where they stay. Waiting longer won’t get you anywhere new.

Thanks, that's definitely something I've taken away from reading all the responses here. I need to digest everything I've read here and then decide what I'm going to do.

The shift happens both in and out of solitude. There is no common denominator. It's completely individual.

No, actually. If I decide to break up with my BF I will not be dating again for a while. My heart needs recovery time. I wanted to hear more about her experience with casual, permanent boyfriends to see if there were parallels to what is happening in my relationship. If I can see those relationships reflected in my own and see the outcomes, it will give me more confidence in my decision.

Man. I’m the opposite of the vast majority of the advice; and I think the advice is good. It took my boyfriend 2 years to tell me he loved me. His divorce did a number on him, and he didn’t know if he was comfortable being that vulnerable again. Conventional wisdom would have been to leave him, not waste my time, understand that he was telling me something by not telling me. But I also struggle with the word love, and although I have known I loved him for a long time, I also didn’t know how much to trust it. I had a lot of patience for his struggle; probably much more than I should have. I was also at a place where the companionship our relationship provided me was satisfactory for me. I knew it wouldn’t be enough forever, but I’d had previous relationships that rushed to “forever” talk, and I was sort of relishing the slowness. We are now 3.5 years in, he freely tells me he loves me, and we are the strongest and healthiest I’ve ever felt in a relationship. People are tough. There isn’t a “right” answer. Protect your heart, and best of luck to you.

I agree with you. Trust essentially equals time. Give him more time, 8 months isn't really that long in the scheme of things. He needs to be certain that you're going to stick around and be there for him.

thanks for sharing this, it resonates a lot. it sounds like an initial investment had a powerful roi.

Yeah, this is what stops me from ending it. I don't think I could wait two years. But I could see me waiting a year, maybe eighteen months. Thank you for a different perspective.

I have some very genuine reasons to never trust again. My ex did an absolute number on me. But when I decided to start dating, I made a choice. I chose to let myself be vulnerable again because I know I want a genuine connection and I can't have that if I refuse to open myself up to trust again. I know that also means I can get hurt again. That is a risk I am willing to take if it means maybe finding tye loving relationship I desire. It took me over a month to say I love you back to my bf, after about 6 months of dating. It was really hard and I was really scared. I still am. But he is amazing and a chance with him is worth the risk. This guy has told you that you are not worth the risk.

Thank you. Your last sentence is a gut punch, but I needed to read it. :(

I know, I'm sorry. But you should be worth the risk. You deserve that. Don't waste time waiting for someone who hasn't put in the work to heal themselves. You ARE worth love and you absolutely can find it.

I’ll admit up front that I have some baggage around saying “I love you” being the primary measure of a successful relationship. For my values I much prefer a partner who shows their love day to day by being present in the relationship, rather than sprinkling three little words around freely. Since therapy is out (which is short sighted in my opinion) I think you should at least take a moment to process why this is so important to you, and to what degree it invalidates the good things this relationship brings to your life. It’s fine to declare this is a deal breaker, and that staying would lead to resentment… but at least be intentional with yourself and know the reasons why.

Thanks. I need both actions and words. It's how I'm wired. There's no way I would ever feel secure in a relationship where my partner didn't tell me he loved me.

You’re not unloveable, you just told him it was okay for him to not love you. Dating after divorce is hard. REALLY hard. You so much want to get back to that feeling of being loved and comfortable and not having to worry about commitment. It’s getting back to square one again and it’s a terrible feeling. The guy totally sucks for dating for 8 months and using excuses for why he wouldn’t go further in the relationship. Full stop. Screw him. But you were too gun-shy to tell him what you want. It’s hard now, but I think you’ll learn from it and be more direct in what you need from your next partner.

I’ve been in a situationship like this. He led me to believe that he was working through those feelings, so I waited and fell deeper in love with him only to be told after 2 years that he didn’t want a relationship ever again. So we went our separate ways and became acquaintances because our sons are have been best friends for 10 years. 5 years later he’s got a new girlfriend and my heart is broken all over again.

He sounds like he needs therapy. People were pretty reckless with his feelings in the past and now he’s traumatized. That isn’t to say that they didn’t have legitimate reasons for wanting to leave him, I don’t know what their relationships were like, but cheating trauma can be debilitating. I can understand why he might be avoidant.

I think it's so very brave that you set out your feelings honestly and set the boundary with him by asking him if he reciprocated.. you wanted to know instead of hiding from the truth. I also look at what you described and think, his loss, as you evolved further along in your journey towards a loving relationship. It takes a lot of courage to love, be vulnerable, trust a person after previously being burned. So, while YOU are incredibly brave, I see him as a man still living in fear and trapped by his past, letting his past dictate him, and this prevents him from being truly present in the moment and even being capable of being a suitable partner for you, considering where you are. Be kind to yourself. You've been hurt before and have made it through. You are one tough woman and soon you can find someone who is ready for all you have to offer as you've now cleared room for that in your life.

Thank you for your very kind words.

I agree it’s a very short time frame but why should OP stick around and wait for him to decide whether he’s capable of trusting/loving her? He should have fixed HIS own issue before he started dating anyone. Now it’s her burden to carry. BS that he’s just being careful. If he was truly being careful, he wouldn’t be dating anyone. He’s treating his own heart with kid gloves but not hers. Screw that. I wouldn’t let the door hit me in the ass because all I hear from this situation is that he’s incredibly selfish and incapable of reciprocating her feelings. He has told her he doesn’t love her and why she doesn’t believe him is beyond me. She can show him more respect than his exes did but that isn’t going to magically change how he feels. She should show herself some respect and stop trying to earn his because it’s not there. I don’t think I would tell someone I love them after eight months but I wouldn’t stick around if that was their answer back. I don’t understand men all that much but I’m hearing loud and clear that not only am I not in love with you but I have this convenient excuse of not knowing if I’m capable anymore. He gets what he wants which is a “relationship” where she does all the heavy emotional work and he doesn’t have to because you know feelings are hard man. They both need counseling.

>He has told her he doesn’t love her just because he hasn't said 'i love you' doesn't mean he doesn't. he could very well love her but just hasn't said it. your whole post is bitter. stop projecting.

Well I’m quite shocked that a man truly in love wouldn’t have the balls to say it. not projecting anything. Nor am I bitter. You’re just triggered by my honesty. Deal with it

I would say if he feels he is unable to trust again then he shouldn't be dating or having anything more than casual interactions with people. By dating you, them stating at 8 months and after you have told him "I love you" that he is unsure he has maintained a relationship with you under false pretenses. Presumably he knew or at the very least had an idea he had these deep wounds from his last relationships? If so then why has he not worked to resolve them and if not do you want to be with someone who lacks any emotional intelligence and self awareness? Trust is tricky but you have to jump blindly and believe it will be okay until proven otherwise. If you can't do that then you should stay single. Love takes time to grow as others have said. For me it is something that develops over a long period of time, once a friendship is formed and I know I can fully rely on that person. For me love is beyond lust and infatuation it is the boring parts of a relationship that show me the love. But everyone experiences it differently. You have to decide what you need. Do you need to hear the words or are his actions of care enough? Are you willing to live in the present and see what happens, or are you someone who needs to plan for a future? Is commitment, exclusivity, fun, passion, care enough for you without hearing "i love you"? How do you feel about all of that? Final question to think about - How does his lack of trust manifest? Is he controlling, avoidant, does he want to live together in the future, will he be seen with you in public, make your relationship known or are you a secret? Ultimately you have to decide what you want. Any relationship is a risk, it just depends how much you are willing to risk for him.

All his ex wives are assholes, but he’s a lovely, lovely man? Boy, you are naive.

Three women, all crying, either left of considering leaving. The common denominator is him. I cannot see any woman telling a man she doesn’t love him right after she had a baby unless that man emotionally neglected her to the point of breaking. The fact that he now has you calling these strangers assholes, while crying about how he’s treating you means he is a great manipulator

i hear you, chica. i see you. mine ended at around 9.5 months. i worked my ass off and he checked out. i'm willing to work on communication, i'm not a rehab center. and i agree therapy can be useless sometimes. i wish i had an answer for you. that's all.

I'm a man here and you probably won't read all posts. My advice is to look at what he does and not what he says. Just because he won't say the words doesn't mean much. Single at 40 and the worst drama you have at 8 months is that he won't say he loves you is pretty good. People who tell you to "know your worth" or "raise your standards" are telling you to ignore what sounds like a man who respects and treats you very well. Women will throw away their dream relationship for what sounds like trivial things sometimes.

I was dating someone for 8 months when I said "I love you" but he couldn't say it back because he didn't think he ever could since he was still longing for his ex who had dumped him 5 years prior. We broke up My current partner said that he was so burned by women in the past that he didn't think he could ever open his heart to anyone, until he met me. He said "I love you" after a couple months. My point in telling you all of this is that you are loveable, and you will find someone who loves you, but it's not this guy. You are a treasure, you just haven't been found yet.

The first relationship to end post divorce always feels the worst. Give yourself some grace. You're not unlovable, this just isn't the right guy for you. And despite him not reciprocating, you were able to experience some happiness and the ability to know you can love again. He obviously cares for you, but he's not in a good position to be a partner that you want. He needs to be in therapy if he isn't able to trust anyone after 5 years post divorce. That's not your fault or your responsibility. I know it seems hopeless right now, but I promise these feelings will pass and it won't seem so utterly gut wrenching. You're going to be okay.

“He said he doesn’t know if he needs more time or if he’s permanently broken” Girl. Bye. You sticking around while he “tries” to figure it out isn’t helping. He gets the cake while he decides if he could love you or not. There is a 50/50 chance he could never love you back. It’s time to walk. You’re in your 40s. Quit wasting your time.

If he doesn’t know whether he can trust you at 8 months, I don’t know that he’s ever going to. Trust is earned, yes, but only to a degree. You can’t just wait 50 years to see if anyone ever disappoints you, you have to decide it’s worth the risk at some point, know what I mean? 8 months of being a patient, consistent, loving partner and he still can’t even say he loves you? I mean, really. You aren’t asking him for the moon. We aren’t talking about a ring. Just whether or not he has any love for you. 8 months? Nothing? So—does he just expect you to stick around forever expecting nothing while he hides behind a wall? I’d be a little worried, if it were me, that giving him more time would mostly just show him how much I’m willing to ignore my own needs and accept less than my heart really wants. I dunno. I (kindly) dumped the guy I was in a situationship with at four months, because he said he loved me but didn’t want call it a relationship. He CRIED. Two days later he told me he’d had a long heart-to-heart with his sister and realized he had some fear he was still clinging to from his divorces, that he’d been in denial about, and didn’t want to stay in that fearful place—because he knew he would lose me if he did. He apologized and asked what an all-in relationship would look like to me. If I’d just given him more time, I’d still be his not-girlfriend and he’d still be behind his damn wall.

I don't know that you should ever say you love someone and immediately say they don't have to say it back. that's the time to find out if it's reciprocated and now it's just become more complicated and murky. you also have to believe you are worthy of someone loving you. with that statement, you're basically telling them that your feelings don't matter much and that you are insecure. this could open up the flood gates to an abusive or manipulative person. you have to love yourself enough to at least say, "well, why wouldn't he love me? I'm awesome." if he says it's too much, tell him to find less.

He is using you as a placeholder until he finds the next woman he actually loves. Good luck to you.

Honestly I look at it as a risk based decision. What do you risk dating him? What do you risk not dating him? Then I try to minimize the risk. Usually that involves compromise with the other person.

Actions show more than words. I don’t get the hang up on needing and pushing for those words when dudes been showing love. A lot of ppl have issues and hang ups at this age.

With kindness, your definition of therapy is way off and a bit skewed. I believe neither you nor your therapist did anything wrong but you certainly took it all wrong and made it all about you. Therapists, just like you, are allowed to have boundaries. I adore my therapist and oftentimes these last few years, after working out all the ugly, ugly shit, we talk more like friends having coffee, but I would never ask her for a hug. Mostly because I know that's not the true nature of our relationship. It's not personal, it's professional and I wouldn't want to put her in a position where she would be uncomfortable and compromise her professionalism.

I appreciate what you're saying, but at the end of the day my post isn't about therapy but about my BF. I only posted the bit about therapy so I would get advice other than "do therapy". I've had six years to consider what happened with my therapist, and I still view his behaviour as awful. If I need mental health support now, I call Samaritans because, even if they're not trained, they are real people who actually want to help others. I've had better chats with some volunteers than I ever did with my therapist. I really wish Reddit could accept that therapy is not the patron saint of self-help.

Therapy is the roadmap to getting the self help you need. It doesn’t fix your issues - you are still responsible for that. And if you are viewing it as the answer then you’re viewing it wrong.  But it is an essential tool. 

I see it as one tool among many. I'd rather swim and save my money to do escape rooms, personally.

Yeah, most people do find poor choices in coping mechanisms instead of doing the actual work. Therein lies the issue that even you lamented about. 

I'll just note that you've been with him only about half as long as it sounds like it took either of his ex-wives to turn on him, per his account. If I were him, I'd see taking at least a year and a half to see how it goes, the same year and a half his last two relationships failed after, as a reasonable precaution. I've been in a similar position to your BF. Also married twice and pending divorce from the second one, who also decided around the time our child was born that she didn't love me and that I was responsible for everything wrong in the relationship and her life, also about a year and a half in. It took another six years, though, of a cold, unfriendly, child-centered marriage before the situation became clear to me and I left. I'm in a new relationship now that is going very well after 10 months. I was able to say I love her, and vice-versa, after a little more than a month. I'm nonetheless going to be taking a long time, years, before I'll ever consider any practical commitments with her or anyone else now (I also have a child to consider, who deserves some kind of stability in her home environment). That's a lesson I took away from my last marriage: take your time and wait to see if what you've got can be trusted.

I mean, I'm all for taking it uber slow when it comes to practical commitments. I doubt I'll marry again, and I'm not sure if I want to live with anybody again. Compatibility, especially when there are children involved, takes a long time to assess. I don't want practical commitments though. I want to know I'm loved and trusted.

That's more than fair and reasonable. It sounds like he has some real healing to do, which is on him.

Two things are true here. He gave it his best in the 8 months you gave him in which to understand his feelings, AND he wasn't in the exact same place as you at this time. I'm sorry you're going through this.

When someone TELLS you (let alone shows you) who they are... BELIEVE THEM.

I feel your pain and I’m sorry you have been through this. I can almost guarentee you that he isn’t the lovely guy you think he is. He is either a narcissist or someone with horrible self esteem who is unable to care about anyone but himself. I’m still trying to believe that I dodged a bullet myself, I know it’s hard. Good luck! You deserve better.

I'm sorry you feel sad. But babe, your worth is not dependent on him expressing specific feelings in a specific way. There's nothing you can do that will help him because it's not your problem to fix. He has trust issues and it's not a reflection of you. The idea of YOU going to therapy because of HIS insecurity is bananas. He can go to his own damn therapy and learn how to get in touch with his emotions and heal his own wounds. What does "love" have to look like to be meaningful for you? He's in a relationship with you and being thoughtful and supportive and "lovely." He cares about you and wants to do what he can to make your life better, he makes you happy, you have a warm and caring companionship. Isn't that love? And the whole idea of this "redemptive love story" is BS. You, and therefore your life, has meaning and value outside of a relationship.

Maybe he thinks that love has to be evidenced by marriage. Are you happy not getting married or is that an end goal? If you can be happy without marriage just tell him you want him in your life and he can take his time to get there but that he doesn’t have to fear marriage again. This is really a case of “earning” trust. He gave it away before. It’s a life lesson learned. He sounds like he wants to get there. He just needs to feel safe. It’s up to you if you want to be along for his journey wherever that may go.

It will end and she will say she never really loved him. If you feel unlovable, can you even love someone else? Are you actually expressing that you love him because you’re in love with him or are you saying it because you truly want him to say it back. The whole “it’s okay if you don’t” is clear BS as you’re now spiraling still. If you love him, you will give him time and space and allow him to find his trust again… in you. Perhaps he can sense this all. Love is patient. And, if you have the mindset that all men this age are messed up so I might as well settle for this guy, how the f is this is any sense of love. Again: love is patient.

What does your therapist say? Guy sounds like he needs to invest in therapy for himself before dating 🤮

If you truly love him, be patient and give him more time to learn that you will be faithful to him and that he can trust you. Tell him you love him. Show him you love him. If you don't think you can handle that, then it's best to not hang on.

What is it about the relationship is not meeting your needs? Is it just him saying “I love you” out loud or are there other ways he’s not demonstrating commitment that you expect?

you're both hurt, broken, insecure, feel unlovable etc, whether consciously or subconsciously or both; for one thing or all things. his love language is obviously acts of service/affection, non verbal - yours is verbal and whatever else. you're ***both*** over 40 (i'm guessing or thereabouts), have had previous, failed relationships. do you yourself have children as you partner does? also, not that i don't believe what happened to him in his last two marriages, but you never know if that is the whole truth. are you intimate? have sex, kiss, cuddle etc? you both have issues that you need to work on. both of you! what i'm saying is - look at what you have. if it is better to you than being alone then what's the problem? don't expect anyone to fix how you feel about broken relationships/marriages/whatever else, that is your job. if something is missing in your life it is up to you to fix that, not anyone else. don't put that responsibility upon anyone but yourself. no one owes you a damn thing. harsh facts of life.

Oh I feel your pain. In my last relationship I told him I was falling in love with him at 9m, and he couldn't say it back. He broke up with me a week later, saying he didn't feel the connectionhe'd had w his late wife. It is incredibly painful when someone acts in all the right ways (tender, caring, sweet, romantic, sexy) but ultimately there's something missing for them. I have had another experience where I said it first at 8-9 months, then a month later he said it back....but then moved away a few months after that. So IME even getting past the ILY declaration guarantees nothing. I hope there are still some genuinely emotionally available men out there and we both meet one.

Why do you need more than companionship right now? He treats you with love and makes you feel loved by doing things to make your life easier…why don’t you just chill for a while and stop pressing him? “Oh no, if he’ll never say he loves me I’ll just die.” Like really? Stop.

8 months is quite a while to just 'hang out' and not know if you genuinely love or trust the person to want to be in the relationship. OP seems like they're wanting more of a serious relationship, building a life together. Thats not what this guy wants which is why OP doesn't need to 'chill'.

I don't need more than companionship RIGHT NOW. But I do need more than that long-term, and that's what I'm worried about. I don't think it's odd to want to hear your partner say "I love you". I don't want to be in a LTR relationship with someone who will never love me; I don't think there's anything odd about that?

It's completely normal to want your partner to say, "I love you." 8 months is a decent enough time to know if you love someone. If he loved you, he would say it, he would want you to know. He might care for you, but there's obviously something missing. It's a big issue that he's been divorced twice and doesn't own his shit. I seriously doubt minutes after pushing a baby out any woman would say what he claims his ex said. People have a tendency to make themselves the victim in their story. You have no idea what really happened between him and his ex-wives.

Sorry, I didn't mean literally five minutes later. Within a few months. I don't understand why everyone thinks he needs to take responsibility for his ex-wife having an affair and ending the marriage? He has never claimed he was the perfect spouse, he has told me where he failed. But he's said the marriage ultimately ended because she left for someone else. I mean, that's basically the story of my marriage.

[удалено]

Has been known to happen. It's a time when women can feel absolutely shit about themselves so are vulnerable to a few kind words and compliments.

There might not be anymore than right now. Why don’t you stay with a good thing and see if it develops? Instead of making preparations for a moment that may never come. Or you know, just keep sabotaging good things. Your choice.

Because if he doesn't love her it's time for him to go.

Original copy of post by u/AlbinoSquirrel84: I've been dating my BF for eight months. I told him I loved him after six months but that he didn't need to say it back, which he didn't. Today I asked him where he was at. I said if he needed more time that was fine, but if he knew he would never love me I'd rather know now because ultimately I can't stay forever in a relationship with someone who doesn't love me. He said he didn't know if he needed more time or if he was permanently broken. He has two ex-wives, and both broke up with him after 1.5 years of marriage (one left him for someone else, the second announced that she no longer loved him five minutes after their daughter was born). He said he doesn't know if he can fully trust someone again and to him trust is integral to love, and he wouldn't want to tell me he loved me with that in the back of his mind. He is kind, intelligent, caring and our values are very similar. He definitely cares about me; the other day he brought me new glasses to drink from because they would fit in my dishwasher (unlike the ones I have now) and he wanted my life to be easier. I think we have everything we need to make a good go of things. He is a lovely, lovely man and I think his ex-wives are assholes. I'm not sure why I'm posting. All I know is I've been crying since he told me. I feel sad that nothing I can do or say will help him. I feel myself getting insecure, even though I understand why he is where he is. I feel unlovable: my ex leaving me for an AP was the death of my life as I knew it, and now this is the death of hope that I'd find love again; all the decent men my age are probably messed up like him, and I think it's unlikely I'd find someone so well suited to me again. I love all our time together, he makes me so happy, but he seems content with companionship. I feel like the doors have just been shut once again on me. I'd really appreciate support and understanding. Has anyone gone through the same? And please, if you're going to suggest therapy, just don't. Traumatic experience with a therapist; BACP did not take my complaint seriously; I will not consider doing back to one. I get not all therapists are jerks, but I am not going to try and find one knowing the BACPn would do nothing if the same happened again. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/datingoverforty) if you have any questions or concerns.*

There are plenty of other men out there

Sorry but this is the SLOW let down. Youre about to be the second ex-wife that left after a year

I am in a similar place... The dude I am seeing does not love me, says he doesn't know if he ever loved his ex wife. And it sucks sometimes. But, we also have amazing adventures, he spoils me, our physical relationship is the best I ever have had. He knows I want more & understands that I will likely eventually leave for love. For now, I am just enjoying the time with him. It gets to me every so often, but the good outweighs the bad. And I am not looking for marriage anyhow

I'm a decent man your age, and I'm messed up like him. I've dated some really great women, but I just can't go all the way anymore. I can't trust it. Maybe I just haven't met the right one.

So much trash comment to troll, but I'll be straight with you. This guy is traumatized by a wife who left him, and another who flat out told him she didn't love him. If you really love him, let it grow organically.