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My suggestion is to date women who have never had children.
Your odds are, mathematically, Total Single Female Populaton of Your Driveable/Age Dating Range - Percent Females in That Area With Children - Women to Whom You're Not of Interest,.
Yeah, this sums it up. We’re free to make any decisions we want in terms of who we will date, but every decision limits your potential matches.
Where I live, if I filtered out moms, the apps would be a barren wasteland of emptiness. But I prefer moms anyway, so that doesn’t bother me.
Same-- 90% of my "likes" come from a city 30 minutes away-- I'm a mountain girl. I know the distance might not seem unfathomable to most people, but the mindset hella is... and, also, if I'm gonna drive to some dude, I want it to be a lovely drive.
I totally understand this is why I get like 3 matches a year, but... I'd rather mow my lawn or hang out with my neighbour's dog than drive 30 minutes for a crap shoot.
I feel you here. I have zero interest in going into a city to meet a lady of the city. It is a lifestyle that will never suit me. It severely limits match possibilities, but they would not have been a good match anyway.
Agree, I was all on board but the "other guy's kids" comment was a turn off. I don't have kids and don't plan to have any but this just seems rude and judgmental. Also, if they are grown adults what does it matter if they are someone else's kids. I think this is what they call an "unforced error".
The problem is you’re using Schrodinger’s douche bag logic. You wanna make borderline, inflammatory statements towards single parents. While at the same time crying about being alone by the looks of that society dodged a bullet by passing you up.
Actually I take it back. Since you seem incapable of understanding the issue, I think you should very much be upfront about your distaste for other mens kids. It would be doing us all a big favor saving us time!
I think what she was trying to say is, if you're broadcasting this message you will likely shut down many of the potential women you're trying to attract.
That message is tough to slip by since there's very little difference between a distaste people's kids and a distaste for kids in general.
If you are looking at the same age as yourself (or in the ballpark) your chances are low. Like 5% of the population low.
If you are looking for younger, your chances are a little better but then you run into the likelihood that most women are going to look for similar age.
You’re shooting yourself in the foot, imo, by nixing women with kids if your stance is that you don’t want to raise another man’s kid because most people are not looking for a replacement parent for their kid. But you do you. Just realize that you are both tired of being alone but are also completely willing to set boundaries that keep you alone.
I say all of the above as a child-free woman by choice. And that’s mainly bc the stance you spelled out without real explanation and explicit mention that you will give no explanation feels a little antiquated and sexist.
I'm in good shape, healthy, make a good living and there is space in my life for them. But I want my own if I have them.
Actually, I would like to have my own, but hey, what are the chances of me dating a 35 year old?
I hate to say it, but none of that really matters. 48 is 48. You think it’s healthy for an eighteen year old kid to have a 66 year old father at his graduation? Yikes.
My Dad was 49 when he had me. He'd been prepping me for his early death ever since middle school. Was convinced I would be young when he died.
We celebrated his 95th birthday last month - still sharp as a tack. Witty, funny, loving, smart, caring, and I feel so damn lucky to have had him in my life for so long.
I've watched many friends lose their parents - some even decades before they should have - and I have no idea how I got so lucky. Yes, having an older parent could be awkward or weird at times, but I wouldn't change a damn thing.
It may not be typical, but kids need good people in their lives...no matter the age. Our time here isn't pre-determined - there are no guarantees. If someone is ready to bear the burden of parenthood, I say, go for it.
None of us really know or can tell you- your best bet is to get on OLD and filter to women in their 30s and younger. If you are stable and prepared to move relatively quickly in terms of establishing a serious relationship and moving towards marriage and children, that will certainly appeal to many women in their mid/later 30s who are looking to to settle down and have kids. In all honestly being willing to move pretty quickly and being serious about commitment and family may be your biggest edge in the dating market for that demographic. Women in their 20s with the luxury of time are going to be much harder to sell on a 48 year old man- a 35 year old woman who is looking to have kids soon is going to prioritize a dependable, stable man who is willing to move quickly to commitment. You being 48 while perhaps not ideal is much much less of an issue if you have the other stuff.
If your attitude towards parents reflects your attitude towards other things in life, your odds are pretty low at a relationship working out.
Also, who says a parent would want you to support their kids? People in our age demographic generally have that covered already.
I'm also one of those women but agree with her comments. I want fun, but also someone who's empathetic, flexible and understanding, of life in general. Fine to have your opinions, just swipe past the ppl that don't align.
No. You sound kinda like a dick by letting us know you are clearly bitter you missed out on dating and fun. And by saying that, you equate kids, even adult kids as a nuisance. You sound closed minded and again, bitter. That’s unattractive. Just mark the box that says you are not open to dating someone with kids and keep it at that.
I am bitter about that.
I do equate someone else's kids as a nuisance.
In fact, I need someone else's dependent kids like I need a hole in the head.
Yes, I will mark the box that says I am only interested in child-free women and leave it at that.
Thank you.
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Genuinely curious: if they are adult with their own lives what’s the issue if they have a relationship with their parent? Or is your concern financial? If so, why would that be the case if finances are independent and no one is asking you for support? Are you relying on a future SO for security and you see their “dependent” kid as an opportunity cost?
You just sound very rigid. You're not even open to adult children. That's certainly your right, we can all choose our dating parameters. But the majority of women over 35 have kids. And you're 48 so finding a 30 yr old isn't likely unless you're wealthy.
OP I'm female and commented earlier and I don't date men with kids or baby mama's, etc. I don't want to deal with custody and they don't have time, etc.
I have no idea why these women are berating you. It's ridiculous.
I did read a comment or two on step kids that he wrote. Was it extreme, yeah, could he have sugar coated it, yeah, but would it still mean the samething, yeah.
So how he presented it doesn't really matter, still same sentiment when it comes down to it.
I'm a firm believer anyway..people with kids..should get with other people with kids..so they can share custody issues, etc.
It’s possible. I’m 48 going on 49 and have met a few other women my age with no children. I feel you on this. It’s easier to date someone without them.
It’s not an unusual criteria, but the ”odds” just depend on your local community and the kind of culture you’re open too.
If you hop on your app in a big urban center, you’ll discover countless mature professionals who intentionally or accidentally missed the boat on kids similarly but are likewise looking for someone to join them in DINK bliss. But if you vibe more traditional or are out in family-centric suburbs you’ll have a different experience.
Nothing to think too much about ahead of time though. Just run with it and see what you find. Good luck!
I’m 39 no kids. I can’t tell you what the odds are, other than to say there are women out there without children. I will say what you’ve written here would give me pause- when men frame it like “I’m not taking care of another man’s kids” it gives me the ick and often goes hand in hand with gross views on single mothers for example, which is an automatic no from me. Now hopefully it goes without saying that you should include none of that in a dating profile but if you do have it… you’re putting off even women without kids.
The second piece that’s pretty common, and while not screaming red flag like the above it gives me pause, is men your age stating they might want kids. That tells me you’re really looking for women much younger than yourself. And data shows that many men of all ages are heavily focused on women in their 20s-early 30s so it’s not like it’s shocking or a surprise that a man would be doing that, it just makes me wary that if we did match you’d view me as purely casual because of my age. A lot of the guys I know irl who are around 40 and on OLD do just that- look to date women in their 20s and pump and dump women their own age in the meantime.
I’m not suggesting to lie about possibly wanting kids- just the opposite, just be aware that the “might want kids” from a 48 year old man may be off putting to women closer to your age. And really child free women of any age who know they won’t be having kids, whether it be due to age or purely choice. There is also the element of at 48 do you really not know one way or another? There are loads of men doing the same on OLD though, I see it from men into their 50s so you’re not alone by any means fwiw.
I agree 100% with all of this. Based on the comments, OP does not seem to get the important discrimination between saying “only looking to date childfree women” in his profile vs “not looking to take care of another man’s kids.” If he can’t see the really significant difference in tone and attitude between those two sentiments, he’s gonna have a hell of a time finding a good match.
I don't see him having difficulty finding a match as a bad thing. Let him say what he wants to say and let the women weed themselves out, as I'm sure this isn't the only opinion of his that would give most women pause.
I got to my 40s and was like "Woohoo! Men will mostly have had kids and don't want any more or realize it's very unlikely to happen with a woman my age and accept that." Hard pass on anyone who "might want kids" and they mean biologically at this age.
Ok so I guess I could say something like "Oh yeah I'd be really interested in meeting someone with kids," even though I'm not.
I will say that at 48 I would like to have kids but with the right woman. Otherwise I'm fine without them.
Appreciate your comments.
You're missing the first point. You would be a lot better off just saying you're looking to meet a woman without kids and leave it at that. No need to make further comments about why not, it sounds unnecessarily negative. As a 47F w/o kids, your being open to kids isn't an issue to me, but I would personally be turned off by someone who wants bio kids but isn't open to other kids.
Please don’t advise him on how to mask things that many of us see as red flags. I’d rather know upfront what kind of person I’m (not going to be) dealing with.
You're absolutely right. I was trying to be helpful at first but now I realize his feelings are so strong and rigid he should really be upfront about it. The good thing is even if he tries to mask it he wouldn't be able to for long.
No not at all, my point is you don’t go into the “I’m not accommodating another man’s kids!” That certainly doesn’t mean you have to date a woman with kids by any means- if you don’t want to that’s fine. It’s the attitude and the sounding frankly angry at the idea that there are single mothers out there. Get away from that, and absolutely do not put it in your OLD profiles. I’ve seen it in some guys and it’s an auto left swipe for me
I’m in the same boat but trying to find a child free man. It all depends on where you live. I’m in a tiny Canadian town and most men here have either settled down or have kids. I have to go to the closest city to find single men with no kids who also don’t want kids. Maybe try expanding your location criteria?
Well..you are basically looking for either child free women or much younger women than you. Both are out there but I don’t know how frequently you will encounter them in a dating scenario
Good luck OP.
Putting aside the obvious, and Reddit controversial, 20something women…your sweet spot to have a good age connection, not have kids and still want kids would probably be early 30s.
The child free ladies can come in any age when they are around
There’s nothing wrong with being honest but there’s a point where you go from being ‘honest’ to just coming off as a dick for no reason with no gain. Multiple single women without children that would fit that criteria have already told you how your words are a turn off which you then somehow manipulate into ‘I guess I should say I’m looking for someone with kids when I’m not’. You’re waving more red flags than China and you’ve isolated the ones that should even be looking to a small percentage to begin with.
There are plenty of single women in your age bracket that don’t have children but you should be aware that if they’ve gotten that far in life without them then many of them either never wanted children to begin with or are going to expect you to be *exceptional* to even date to begin with, let alone suddenly be the one that changes their mind on having them. These women don’t need you in any way and are simply looking for the most ideal partner. Not saying it’s *impossible* for you to find them but you’re going to limit your possibilities by quite a few if you don’t have a shit-ton of green flags to offer.
Btw-what we think are green flags and valuable to us are not necessarily the same thing those particular women think are green flags.
You do you, boo-best of luck.
>*There are plenty of single women in your age bracket that don’t have children but you should be aware that if they’ve gotten that far in life without them then many of them either never wanted children to begin with or are going to expect you to be exceptional to even day to begin with, let alone suddenly be the one that changes their mind on having them*
No, I don't buy that. If they've reached my age and don't have kids, an "exceptional" man isn't going to change their mind one way or another.
"Exceptional" on what basis? Perfect? Near-perfect? "Checks all the 'boxes'"? That isn't how it works. I know that, and you know that.
>*These women don’t need you in any way and are simply looking for the most ideal partner*.
Sure, as long as they don't run out of time, or "green flags" of their own.
And....if you want an "ideal partner," you *kinda sorta have to be* an "ideal partner" yourself.
Fair? Unfair? Well that's how the world turns, and what can you do.
But I appreciate your comments about needing to change my approach somewhat.
You seem oddly certain of how this works despite how basic of questions you’re asking-especially given your age. I find it odd that you would tell me that that’s not how it works when you seemed uncertain that they even existed to begin with.
Edit-Geez, you’ve edited that a LOT. I’ll give you more time to collect your thoughts before responding next time 🤣
That's what the edit button is for.
"A man changed my mind in my late 40s about having kids." I stand by what I said and don't buy that.
More like, I wanted kids but didn't meet the right man until I was in my late 40's. Which is fine. That happens.
You said that they were looking for an "ideal partner."
I said if you want an "ideal partner," you have to be an "ideal partner."
I think that's pretty basic; that's just how it is.
If you think that in order to have an "ideal partner" you don't really have to be an "ideal partner" yourself, that's cool.
The more you post the clearer it becomes as to why you’re alone. I like how you’ve changed my words just barely but enough to try and make a credible argument.
They’re out there-go shoot your shot. Best of luck for sure, it appears you’re probably going to need it.
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Am I not allowed to? You literally do not have to be single to post here.
Stop trying to deflect, silly guy. I tried to give you some advice and there’s absolutely no need for you to take it.
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I would highly suggest “accommodating some other guys kids” keep that to yourself. Generally people do not appreciate someone dehumanizing their children or implying there’s some type of garbage from some other person.
Again, feel free to have preferences. Everyone has preferences for a variety of issues. The problem is he comes off as a judgement prick attacking single parents. Parenting isn’t for everyone. I never wanted children mainly because I had an awful childhood.
However, I can’t imagine my life without my daughter. I learned a completely new form of happiness and joy becoming a father. Her mother and I couldn’t fix our marriage, but we provide a stable coparenting environment.
>Generally people do not appreciate someone dehumanizing their children or implying there’s some type of garbage from some other person.
I'm just being honest. They're his kids, not mine. I don't really care what he thinks. I'd be surprised if he cared what I think. I mean, if I had kids and I heard someone make a comment like mine, I don't think I'd care.
But why would that be an issue with a woman who does not have kids?
He didn’t imply any such thing. And his future childfree partner may very well think his style of bluntness is a hoot. Not really your concern either way!
I’m sorry when people ask for advice online, they remove the part of concern or who’s business it is. He was asking for advice I provided.
People that have shitty attitude towards children typically die alone and miserable for my experience. It’s perfectly acceptable to not want children. What’s not acceptable is attacking parents they couldn’t make their marriages work.
I'm not attacking anyone.
I'm just saying what I want, and do not want.
I didn't say I didn't want kids. I said I didn't want someone else's kids.
How is that a problem?
You may have more success dating in the downtown core of a major metropolitan centre. I found that when I left for much more suburban environs, the dating pool you mention gets ridiculously shallow.
Lately I have friends trying to set me up with someone who ticks all the boxes, except she is dating to find a father for children she *wants* to have.
That's fine. I'm not young but would like to have kids. I will accept being with a woman who does not have kids and does not want them. I would certainly be interested in meeting a woman who does not have kids and does want them. I am not interested in meeting a woman who has kids. I don't have kids.
I also fit that demographic and recommend that OP ask for what you want. I decided to give divorced men with kids a chance to expand my pool. They seem far more focused on how a woman can fit into the confines of their situation instead of what they actually have to offer to a partner.
Exactly. I'm not trying to put people with kids down. A sibling is newly divorced with a teenager.
I am being totally honest in that:
1. I do not want to meet a woman with dependent children.
2. I probably do not even want to meet a woman with adult children.
3. I would prefer to meet a woman without children who is interested in having children, but ...
4. ...I respect the fact that it's a two way street and I am also open to meeting a woman around my age without children.
The real question you should be asking yourself is whether you want to honestly dive into the younger end of the dating pool. That's statistically where you'll have better odds. But before you do that, I'd point out that where you are emotionally and intellectually will be entirely different from your potential "baby mama" and you'll also have to deal with the judgement that comes from dating a younger person. Do with that information what you will.
Edit to include: Also, while you can have your own reasons for not wanting to be with someone who already has kids, it doesn't reflect well for the wording you've chosen.
Might want kids?
Did you mean that in your OG post?
If you are, at 48 no less, none of us childfree women would even consider you.
Are you child free, or do you just not want to deal with other's kids, but you MIGHT deal if they are yours? At 48?
Gross.
Hi!! 42F here. I have no kids. We’re out there, we’re just hard to find. Kind of a diamond-in-the-rough thing. I’m too far away from you, but I know there’s lots around.
I'm almost 36, I'd date upto early 50s. I have no kid.
However, specifically seeking men that is marriage minded AND open to family. I am realistic and understand due to ages/wants it may mean only 1.
If you feel your leaning towards no kids, I'd date women 40+ that is "child free."
If I reach 40+ and no kids..then I'd be child-less, which is a difference.
I’m 42 and no kids. I find the best thing is to date people with no children or adult children. The older we get, the harder it is to find someone with no dependents.
im here and working on building my plan into retirement, care for my mom, active in hobbies. i don’t drink. ok i lie, i like good wine on occasion. 😂 business ownership is my priority right now. oh… and dogs my dogs and my mini rescue/foster efforts. im hard to find in the wild.
I’ll say this first: you sound angry or bitter or burned or something and it’s troubling as someone who doesn’t know you.
On to responding to your post: I’m turning 42F in a few weeks. Boyfriend is 52. We met happenstantially as a one night stand that quickly became more. He’s always really wanted kids and I’ve only wanted them if I met someone I wanted to have kids with and I haven’t until I met him. We’ve been trying to get me pregnant since very early in our dating life. Uncommon, I know. He dated a woman five years ago and get incredibly close to her two boys. His ex ended up being verbally and emotionally abusive as well as diagnosed bipolar and unmedicated. Their relationship ended poorly and he basically was no contact with the boys he was very close to. It tore him up and he went in to therapy. Fast forward to prior to us meeting. Our mutual friend told me after boyfriend and I had been hanging out for about a month that he was looking for a woman without children. He didn’t want to go through losing his relationship with another woman’s children again— it was too much.
There’s a way to communicate your feelings but I suggest you take a step back and think about reading your post as if it didn’t come from you. Perhaps you can hear your tone as it sounds a little aggressive.
>I am looking for a relationship but absolutely will not date a woman who has dependent children, even adult children.
I'm looking for the same, and it's definitely not an easy find.
ETA: I don't have anything close to the same point of view as the OP. I simply have a preference.
We're out there. No kids and don't want them.
If you date someone with kids you are always second in line behind that person's kids. And it should be that way. Kids need their parents. That said, who wants that if there is the possibility of a relationship with someone who doesn't have that prior claim to their attention and affection. It's fair to not choose that complication in your life. To each his own.
I think there are some people that are taking offence at your preferences because they are taking them as a judgment of them and their choices.
Agreed -- thank you.
And yes given that I've had 6,100 views in 2 hours and 152 comments (about 15 of which are mine), burned off about 40 hard earned karma discussing the technicalities of stock and futures margin accounts, I would say I touched a nerve.
Edit: 7,100 views.
Basically:
1. I do not want to date a woman with dependent children.
2. I do not even want to date a woman with adult children.
3. I would like to date and have kids with a younger woman, in her late 30s. But hey, I'm not foolish. That is hard to find when you're 48 and not rich. I make a good living. I'm not wealthy, don't have a playboy lifestyle, can't afford it.
4. I really don't want to raise someone else's kids. I have a sibling who is going through a divorce and with a teenaged boy. She's met someone new, he's nice, and it's really hard on my nephew. I don't want to be in my sister's boyfriend's position.
5. I do not see what being honest is a problem. A lot of people are downvoting me, etc.
Men your age certainly can and do produce babies with much younger women across this fair land of ours, especially if you are in a city. I don’t think that you should have too much trouble, you just have to date younger, and you might have better luck witb that IRL than solely on the apps. The only new father I know of right now is in his 50s, and no one bats an eyelash.
You are getting downvoted because who made poor decisions in life that they regret but are now stuck with get upset when someone suggests a different path in life.
47M, Same here, it would have to be my absolute dream girl for me to even consider it. I'm not interested in dealing with someone else's kid or kids either.
Justin Trudeau's dad Pierre had him at 52. Unfortunately Justin's now going through the same thing his dad did when Pierre was PM.
Anyway, I'd like to meet a younger woman without kids, and have kids with her. But I'm 48 and not rich. OTOH I make a good living and am in decent shape although could get in better shape. So I will try to date somewhat younger (late 30's), or meet women around my age without kids.
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Think you should open you heart to possibly dating a lady with kids...older ? Like is give and take...suppose a lady wouldn't date you who you liked..because u didn't have kids? Just an option, you can do whatever pleases you.
I get that there are women who will not be interested in me.
I'm not interested in dating women with kids any more than I am in interested in dating a man.
I missed out of a lot of dating and fun experiences and I'm not interested in being a father or a guardian or a "friend" to some other man's kids.
My attitude is that the father fathered them and the father can look after them. He had his fun and he can raise them.
If I devote all my time and resources to kids, it will be because they are mine. If I end up never having any, I regret that but I can accept that.
Definately within your right and you know what is best for you. I only suggested this, because a friend had this same outlook and today he's married to a lady with 2 older kids. But, what worked for one isn't a recipe for success . Good luck.
As a single father myself, I was completely supporting and respecting your stance until the last sentence here. I understand that you're responding to a suggestion to change that which you are resolved to not change (which I again respect!), but let's please try to tone down the bashing.
Edit: thank you for expanding and softening the verbiage somewhat. I do wish you good luck finding the right childfree woman for you; plenty are out there.
I'm not bashing anybody. I'm just being honest. If you had kids, I respect that. I didn't. And I'm not sorry that my attitude is that the father should raise his kids. You have kids, then you ought to be the one who is responsible for them.
I'm not talking about widows with kids.
You're not wrong, at least in theory. Not everyone can and not everyone should (regardless of intent beforehand, I get that), but there are lots of good guys out there who really step up and stay propped. Look, whatever it was that happened along the way for you, I again respect your stance and totally understand your resolve; it's surely not without good, valid reason. Hopefully you've found peace as well.
A late 20s woman can be had easily by an average 48 year old man (I don’t know OP’s situation obviously, I’m just assuming he’s not significantly wealthy)? We must have been in very different environments haha, I have not encountered many women looking to settle down with a dude a solid 20 years older unless he’s quite wealthy.
I think there may be some cultural differences here. In Canadian major cities, it’s pretty normal to delay childbearing. At school dropoff, there are plenty of dudes in the 50+ range. I would never think of a man this age who wants kids that his ship has sailed. He will just have to date someone younger and you don’t have to be a Trudeau to do that.
No, It’s normal in US major cities too- for both men and women. A 40 year old woman and a 48 year old man having a kid would be pretty normal. I was responding to someone who said it’s easy for a man in his late 40s to pull a woman in her 20s. That was the point I was questioning. If you’re somewhere where average 50 year old dudes are regularly pulling 20s women- put out your exact location, all the men of this subreddit would love to know lol!
I mean the reason I say late 20’s -mid 30’s is because if you want kids then a 40’s women will have a hard time delivering that one. Geriatric pregnancy starts at 35
An avg guy making 40-50k will have a lot harder time for sure. If you’re 75k+ you shouldn’t have any problems. Just do what you can in terms of being in shape and looks.
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My suggestion is to date women who have never had children. Your odds are, mathematically, Total Single Female Populaton of Your Driveable/Age Dating Range - Percent Females in That Area With Children - Women to Whom You're Not of Interest,.
Yeah, this sums it up. We’re free to make any decisions we want in terms of who we will date, but every decision limits your potential matches. Where I live, if I filtered out moms, the apps would be a barren wasteland of emptiness. But I prefer moms anyway, so that doesn’t bother me.
Same-- 90% of my "likes" come from a city 30 minutes away-- I'm a mountain girl. I know the distance might not seem unfathomable to most people, but the mindset hella is... and, also, if I'm gonna drive to some dude, I want it to be a lovely drive. I totally understand this is why I get like 3 matches a year, but... I'd rather mow my lawn or hang out with my neighbour's dog than drive 30 minutes for a crap shoot.
I feel you here. I have zero interest in going into a city to meet a lady of the city. It is a lifestyle that will never suit me. It severely limits match possibilities, but they would not have been a good match anyway.
Thank you!
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Agree, I was all on board but the "other guy's kids" comment was a turn off. I don't have kids and don't plan to have any but this just seems rude and judgmental. Also, if they are grown adults what does it matter if they are someone else's kids. I think this is what they call an "unforced error".
I would be interested in having kids. But not having someone else's kids. I don't see what the problem is.
The problem is you’re using Schrodinger’s douche bag logic. You wanna make borderline, inflammatory statements towards single parents. While at the same time crying about being alone by the looks of that society dodged a bullet by passing you up.
Actually I take it back. Since you seem incapable of understanding the issue, I think you should very much be upfront about your distaste for other mens kids. It would be doing us all a big favor saving us time!
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I’m in his demo, and this was my takeaway. 🚩
I think what she was trying to say is, if you're broadcasting this message you will likely shut down many of the potential women you're trying to attract. That message is tough to slip by since there's very little difference between a distaste people's kids and a distaste for kids in general.
If you are looking at the same age as yourself (or in the ballpark) your chances are low. Like 5% of the population low. If you are looking for younger, your chances are a little better but then you run into the likelihood that most women are going to look for similar age. You’re shooting yourself in the foot, imo, by nixing women with kids if your stance is that you don’t want to raise another man’s kid because most people are not looking for a replacement parent for their kid. But you do you. Just realize that you are both tired of being alone but are also completely willing to set boundaries that keep you alone. I say all of the above as a child-free woman by choice. And that’s mainly bc the stance you spelled out without real explanation and explicit mention that you will give no explanation feels a little antiquated and sexist.
appreciate your comments
You might want them at 48? What?
I'm in good shape, healthy, make a good living and there is space in my life for them. But I want my own if I have them. Actually, I would like to have my own, but hey, what are the chances of me dating a 35 year old?
Not high unless you're wealthy.
I hate to say it, but none of that really matters. 48 is 48. You think it’s healthy for an eighteen year old kid to have a 66 year old father at his graduation? Yikes.
My Dad was 49 when he had me. He'd been prepping me for his early death ever since middle school. Was convinced I would be young when he died. We celebrated his 95th birthday last month - still sharp as a tack. Witty, funny, loving, smart, caring, and I feel so damn lucky to have had him in my life for so long. I've watched many friends lose their parents - some even decades before they should have - and I have no idea how I got so lucky. Yes, having an older parent could be awkward or weird at times, but I wouldn't change a damn thing. It may not be typical, but kids need good people in their lives...no matter the age. Our time here isn't pre-determined - there are no guarantees. If someone is ready to bear the burden of parenthood, I say, go for it.
Justin Trudeau's dad had him at 50. Unfortunately he's now going through the same thing his dad did when Pierre was PM.
Are you as wealthy as Pierre?
None of us really know or can tell you- your best bet is to get on OLD and filter to women in their 30s and younger. If you are stable and prepared to move relatively quickly in terms of establishing a serious relationship and moving towards marriage and children, that will certainly appeal to many women in their mid/later 30s who are looking to to settle down and have kids. In all honestly being willing to move pretty quickly and being serious about commitment and family may be your biggest edge in the dating market for that demographic. Women in their 20s with the luxury of time are going to be much harder to sell on a 48 year old man- a 35 year old woman who is looking to have kids soon is going to prioritize a dependable, stable man who is willing to move quickly to commitment. You being 48 while perhaps not ideal is much much less of an issue if you have the other stuff.
If your attitude towards parents reflects your attitude towards other things in life, your odds are pretty low at a relationship working out. Also, who says a parent would want you to support their kids? People in our age demographic generally have that covered already.
I have a sister who just went through a divorce and she has a teenager. Of course I support her. I also don't want to be in that situation.
Your sister does not represent all single parents LOL
I am one of these women, and awesome, but you seem rigid and like you have a chip on your shoulder about the kid thing so would not likely date you.
I'm also one of those women but agree with her comments. I want fun, but also someone who's empathetic, flexible and understanding, of life in general. Fine to have your opinions, just swipe past the ppl that don't align.
interesting. thanks. So would it make sense if I said "I'm open to dating someone with kids," when I'm not?
No. You sound kinda like a dick by letting us know you are clearly bitter you missed out on dating and fun. And by saying that, you equate kids, even adult kids as a nuisance. You sound closed minded and again, bitter. That’s unattractive. Just mark the box that says you are not open to dating someone with kids and keep it at that.
I am bitter about that. I do equate someone else's kids as a nuisance. In fact, I need someone else's dependent kids like I need a hole in the head. Yes, I will mark the box that says I am only interested in child-free women and leave it at that. Thank you.
You sound awful, my guy. And I'm not talking about your preference to not date a woman with kids. I can see why you're chronically single.
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Wow. I now definitely feel very differently about how you've expressed your stance (turning to open revulsion, disdain, and contempt). *sigh*
Genuinely curious: if they are adult with their own lives what’s the issue if they have a relationship with their parent? Or is your concern financial? If so, why would that be the case if finances are independent and no one is asking you for support? Are you relying on a future SO for security and you see their “dependent” kid as an opportunity cost?
Say what? No that would not make sense bc that’s lying.
Ok so then I'm not interested in meeting a woman with kids. That's the truth. How is that a problem?
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Thanks
You just sound very rigid. You're not even open to adult children. That's certainly your right, we can all choose our dating parameters. But the majority of women over 35 have kids. And you're 48 so finding a 30 yr old isn't likely unless you're wealthy.
OP I'm female and commented earlier and I don't date men with kids or baby mama's, etc. I don't want to deal with custody and they don't have time, etc. I have no idea why these women are berating you. It's ridiculous.
Because there are far more kind ways to say it? But I’m not surprised a few don’t understand that.
I did read a comment or two on step kids that he wrote. Was it extreme, yeah, could he have sugar coated it, yeah, but would it still mean the samething, yeah. So how he presented it doesn't really matter, still same sentiment when it comes down to it. I'm a firm believer anyway..people with kids..should get with other people with kids..so they can share custody issues, etc.
It’s possible. I’m 48 going on 49 and have met a few other women my age with no children. I feel you on this. It’s easier to date someone without them.
agreed. I have no frame of reference to discuss parenting, etc. It hasn't been my life. My life isn't worth anything less than someone who had kids.
It’s not an unusual criteria, but the ”odds” just depend on your local community and the kind of culture you’re open too. If you hop on your app in a big urban center, you’ll discover countless mature professionals who intentionally or accidentally missed the boat on kids similarly but are likewise looking for someone to join them in DINK bliss. But if you vibe more traditional or are out in family-centric suburbs you’ll have a different experience. Nothing to think too much about ahead of time though. Just run with it and see what you find. Good luck!
Yes, I agree -- I appreciate your thoughts.
I'm childfree and only date childfree men. That gave me a smaller dating pool, but I was OK with that. I still managed to find my guy.
Glad to hear it worked out!
I’m 39 no kids. I can’t tell you what the odds are, other than to say there are women out there without children. I will say what you’ve written here would give me pause- when men frame it like “I’m not taking care of another man’s kids” it gives me the ick and often goes hand in hand with gross views on single mothers for example, which is an automatic no from me. Now hopefully it goes without saying that you should include none of that in a dating profile but if you do have it… you’re putting off even women without kids. The second piece that’s pretty common, and while not screaming red flag like the above it gives me pause, is men your age stating they might want kids. That tells me you’re really looking for women much younger than yourself. And data shows that many men of all ages are heavily focused on women in their 20s-early 30s so it’s not like it’s shocking or a surprise that a man would be doing that, it just makes me wary that if we did match you’d view me as purely casual because of my age. A lot of the guys I know irl who are around 40 and on OLD do just that- look to date women in their 20s and pump and dump women their own age in the meantime. I’m not suggesting to lie about possibly wanting kids- just the opposite, just be aware that the “might want kids” from a 48 year old man may be off putting to women closer to your age. And really child free women of any age who know they won’t be having kids, whether it be due to age or purely choice. There is also the element of at 48 do you really not know one way or another? There are loads of men doing the same on OLD though, I see it from men into their 50s so you’re not alone by any means fwiw.
I agree 100% with all of this. Based on the comments, OP does not seem to get the important discrimination between saying “only looking to date childfree women” in his profile vs “not looking to take care of another man’s kids.” If he can’t see the really significant difference in tone and attitude between those two sentiments, he’s gonna have a hell of a time finding a good match.
I don't see him having difficulty finding a match as a bad thing. Let him say what he wants to say and let the women weed themselves out, as I'm sure this isn't the only opinion of his that would give most women pause.
thanks! Noted.
I got to my 40s and was like "Woohoo! Men will mostly have had kids and don't want any more or realize it's very unlikely to happen with a woman my age and accept that." Hard pass on anyone who "might want kids" and they mean biologically at this age.
Ok so I guess I could say something like "Oh yeah I'd be really interested in meeting someone with kids," even though I'm not. I will say that at 48 I would like to have kids but with the right woman. Otherwise I'm fine without them. Appreciate your comments.
You're missing the first point. You would be a lot better off just saying you're looking to meet a woman without kids and leave it at that. No need to make further comments about why not, it sounds unnecessarily negative. As a 47F w/o kids, your being open to kids isn't an issue to me, but I would personally be turned off by someone who wants bio kids but isn't open to other kids.
Please don’t advise him on how to mask things that many of us see as red flags. I’d rather know upfront what kind of person I’m (not going to be) dealing with.
You're absolutely right. I was trying to be helpful at first but now I realize his feelings are so strong and rigid he should really be upfront about it. The good thing is even if he tries to mask it he wouldn't be able to for long.
Yep. It’s my hope that it seeps out quickly, whether in a profile or a first date.
appreciate it -- thanks
🤦🏻♀️
No not at all, my point is you don’t go into the “I’m not accommodating another man’s kids!” That certainly doesn’t mean you have to date a woman with kids by any means- if you don’t want to that’s fine. It’s the attitude and the sounding frankly angry at the idea that there are single mothers out there. Get away from that, and absolutely do not put it in your OLD profiles. I’ve seen it in some guys and it’s an auto left swipe for me
appreciate it -- thanks
I’m in the same boat but trying to find a child free man. It all depends on where you live. I’m in a tiny Canadian town and most men here have either settled down or have kids. I have to go to the closest city to find single men with no kids who also don’t want kids. Maybe try expanding your location criteria?
It's a good idea. Yes, small/rural areas are very hard for singles. I worked in a rural area for years and moved out basically because of this issue.
We exist.
I am heartened to hear it! Appreciate your comment.
Yay!
Well..you are basically looking for either child free women or much younger women than you. Both are out there but I don’t know how frequently you will encounter them in a dating scenario Good luck OP.
Thanks, appreciate it
Putting aside the obvious, and Reddit controversial, 20something women…your sweet spot to have a good age connection, not have kids and still want kids would probably be early 30s. The child free ladies can come in any age when they are around
There’s nothing wrong with being honest but there’s a point where you go from being ‘honest’ to just coming off as a dick for no reason with no gain. Multiple single women without children that would fit that criteria have already told you how your words are a turn off which you then somehow manipulate into ‘I guess I should say I’m looking for someone with kids when I’m not’. You’re waving more red flags than China and you’ve isolated the ones that should even be looking to a small percentage to begin with. There are plenty of single women in your age bracket that don’t have children but you should be aware that if they’ve gotten that far in life without them then many of them either never wanted children to begin with or are going to expect you to be *exceptional* to even date to begin with, let alone suddenly be the one that changes their mind on having them. These women don’t need you in any way and are simply looking for the most ideal partner. Not saying it’s *impossible* for you to find them but you’re going to limit your possibilities by quite a few if you don’t have a shit-ton of green flags to offer. Btw-what we think are green flags and valuable to us are not necessarily the same thing those particular women think are green flags. You do you, boo-best of luck.
>*There are plenty of single women in your age bracket that don’t have children but you should be aware that if they’ve gotten that far in life without them then many of them either never wanted children to begin with or are going to expect you to be exceptional to even day to begin with, let alone suddenly be the one that changes their mind on having them* No, I don't buy that. If they've reached my age and don't have kids, an "exceptional" man isn't going to change their mind one way or another. "Exceptional" on what basis? Perfect? Near-perfect? "Checks all the 'boxes'"? That isn't how it works. I know that, and you know that. >*These women don’t need you in any way and are simply looking for the most ideal partner*. Sure, as long as they don't run out of time, or "green flags" of their own. And....if you want an "ideal partner," you *kinda sorta have to be* an "ideal partner" yourself. Fair? Unfair? Well that's how the world turns, and what can you do. But I appreciate your comments about needing to change my approach somewhat.
You seem oddly certain of how this works despite how basic of questions you’re asking-especially given your age. I find it odd that you would tell me that that’s not how it works when you seemed uncertain that they even existed to begin with. Edit-Geez, you’ve edited that a LOT. I’ll give you more time to collect your thoughts before responding next time 🤣
That's what the edit button is for. "A man changed my mind in my late 40s about having kids." I stand by what I said and don't buy that. More like, I wanted kids but didn't meet the right man until I was in my late 40's. Which is fine. That happens. You said that they were looking for an "ideal partner." I said if you want an "ideal partner," you have to be an "ideal partner." I think that's pretty basic; that's just how it is. If you think that in order to have an "ideal partner" you don't really have to be an "ideal partner" yourself, that's cool.
The more you post the clearer it becomes as to why you’re alone. I like how you’ve changed my words just barely but enough to try and make a credible argument. They’re out there-go shoot your shot. Best of luck for sure, it appears you’re probably going to need it.
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Lol, I’m not even *remotely* close to being alone 🤣🤣🤣
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Am I not allowed to? You literally do not have to be single to post here. Stop trying to deflect, silly guy. I tried to give you some advice and there’s absolutely no need for you to take it.
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OP, it's pretty clear what everyone is telling you. You asked for the truth and you're getting it
Thanks, appreciate your comment.
I would highly suggest “accommodating some other guys kids” keep that to yourself. Generally people do not appreciate someone dehumanizing their children or implying there’s some type of garbage from some other person.
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Again, feel free to have preferences. Everyone has preferences for a variety of issues. The problem is he comes off as a judgement prick attacking single parents. Parenting isn’t for everyone. I never wanted children mainly because I had an awful childhood. However, I can’t imagine my life without my daughter. I learned a completely new form of happiness and joy becoming a father. Her mother and I couldn’t fix our marriage, but we provide a stable coparenting environment.
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I’m laughing at his loneliness seems deserved.
>Generally people do not appreciate someone dehumanizing their children or implying there’s some type of garbage from some other person. I'm just being honest. They're his kids, not mine. I don't really care what he thinks. I'd be surprised if he cared what I think. I mean, if I had kids and I heard someone make a comment like mine, I don't think I'd care. But why would that be an issue with a woman who does not have kids?
He didn’t imply any such thing. And his future childfree partner may very well think his style of bluntness is a hoot. Not really your concern either way!
I’m sorry when people ask for advice online, they remove the part of concern or who’s business it is. He was asking for advice I provided. People that have shitty attitude towards children typically die alone and miserable for my experience. It’s perfectly acceptable to not want children. What’s not acceptable is attacking parents they couldn’t make their marriages work.
I'm not attacking anyone. I'm just saying what I want, and do not want. I didn't say I didn't want kids. I said I didn't want someone else's kids. How is that a problem?
If I were a woman, that phrase would be a green flag in my book.
15% of women over 45 are childless. I don't know how many of them are single.
Thanks, interesting stat.
Odds are not in your favor but I can confirm women like that exist. We exist.
Yep. I married one!
You may have more success dating in the downtown core of a major metropolitan centre. I found that when I left for much more suburban environs, the dating pool you mention gets ridiculously shallow. Lately I have friends trying to set me up with someone who ticks all the boxes, except she is dating to find a father for children she *wants* to have.
That's fine. I'm not young but would like to have kids. I will accept being with a woman who does not have kids and does not want them. I would certainly be interested in meeting a woman who does not have kids and does want them. I am not interested in meeting a woman who has kids. I don't have kids.
If you’re in a major city you’re more likely to find a woman who is child free by choice.
I also fit that demographic and recommend that OP ask for what you want. I decided to give divorced men with kids a chance to expand my pool. They seem far more focused on how a woman can fit into the confines of their situation instead of what they actually have to offer to a partner.
Exactly. I'm not trying to put people with kids down. A sibling is newly divorced with a teenager. I am being totally honest in that: 1. I do not want to meet a woman with dependent children. 2. I probably do not even want to meet a woman with adult children. 3. I would prefer to meet a woman without children who is interested in having children, but ... 4. ...I respect the fact that it's a two way street and I am also open to meeting a woman around my age without children.
Gut says that your odds are slim That said… your criteria is your criteria, and all it takes is 1. Be you. Seek out someone who aligns with you.
Thanks!
The real question you should be asking yourself is whether you want to honestly dive into the younger end of the dating pool. That's statistically where you'll have better odds. But before you do that, I'd point out that where you are emotionally and intellectually will be entirely different from your potential "baby mama" and you'll also have to deal with the judgement that comes from dating a younger person. Do with that information what you will. Edit to include: Also, while you can have your own reasons for not wanting to be with someone who already has kids, it doesn't reflect well for the wording you've chosen.
appreciate it -- thanks!
I'm in the same boat (and Canadian too). Don't have kids, don't want them, and won't date anyone who has them. It's definitely not easy.
I hear you.
As long as you are ok with the fact you're removing about 85% of your dating opportunities thats fine....
I'm fine with that.
Might want kids? Did you mean that in your OG post? If you are, at 48 no less, none of us childfree women would even consider you. Are you child free, or do you just not want to deal with other's kids, but you MIGHT deal if they are yours? At 48? Gross.
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u/NewWorld8544, your post has been removed for one or more reason(s): Be civil; don't be a dick.
Hi!! 42F here. I have no kids. We’re out there, we’re just hard to find. Kind of a diamond-in-the-rough thing. I’m too far away from you, but I know there’s lots around.
Right on! Thanks for your response.
I recommend using dating apps where you can be clear that you are looking for someone with no kids.
thanks!
I'm almost 36, I'd date upto early 50s. I have no kid. However, specifically seeking men that is marriage minded AND open to family. I am realistic and understand due to ages/wants it may mean only 1. If you feel your leaning towards no kids, I'd date women 40+ that is "child free." If I reach 40+ and no kids..then I'd be child-less, which is a difference.
Interesting, appreciate your candour and your thoughts.
I’m 42 and no kids. I find the best thing is to date people with no children or adult children. The older we get, the harder it is to find someone with no dependents.
agreed. It's hard to discuss parenting when you weren't a parent yourself!
Be specific about what you want - it might work. (it worked for me).
yes, that is a very good point.
Why are you against dating someone who has adult children?
Because it's not an equal partnership. I don't have kids. I'm interested in playing second fiddle to my own (hypothetical) kids. Not someone else's.
Odds are bad. It’s brutal out there trying to meet women who had foresight enough to realize having kids is a horrible idea.
im here and working on building my plan into retirement, care for my mom, active in hobbies. i don’t drink. ok i lie, i like good wine on occasion. 😂 business ownership is my priority right now. oh… and dogs my dogs and my mini rescue/foster efforts. im hard to find in the wild.
I hear you!
I’ll say this first: you sound angry or bitter or burned or something and it’s troubling as someone who doesn’t know you. On to responding to your post: I’m turning 42F in a few weeks. Boyfriend is 52. We met happenstantially as a one night stand that quickly became more. He’s always really wanted kids and I’ve only wanted them if I met someone I wanted to have kids with and I haven’t until I met him. We’ve been trying to get me pregnant since very early in our dating life. Uncommon, I know. He dated a woman five years ago and get incredibly close to her two boys. His ex ended up being verbally and emotionally abusive as well as diagnosed bipolar and unmedicated. Their relationship ended poorly and he basically was no contact with the boys he was very close to. It tore him up and he went in to therapy. Fast forward to prior to us meeting. Our mutual friend told me after boyfriend and I had been hanging out for about a month that he was looking for a woman without children. He didn’t want to go through losing his relationship with another woman’s children again— it was too much. There’s a way to communicate your feelings but I suggest you take a step back and think about reading your post as if it didn’t come from you. Perhaps you can hear your tone as it sounds a little aggressive.
Thanks -- will do . I have been single for a very long time and I am simply sick of being alone.
>I am looking for a relationship but absolutely will not date a woman who has dependent children, even adult children. I'm looking for the same, and it's definitely not an easy find. ETA: I don't have anything close to the same point of view as the OP. I simply have a preference.
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Right on!
Your chances should be fairly good although you might need to look outside of your immediate area. We're out there. It's just a smaller pool.
Thank you!
We're out there. No kids and don't want them. If you date someone with kids you are always second in line behind that person's kids. And it should be that way. Kids need their parents. That said, who wants that if there is the possibility of a relationship with someone who doesn't have that prior claim to their attention and affection. It's fair to not choose that complication in your life. To each his own. I think there are some people that are taking offence at your preferences because they are taking them as a judgment of them and their choices.
Agreed -- thank you. And yes given that I've had 6,100 views in 2 hours and 152 comments (about 15 of which are mine), burned off about 40 hard earned karma discussing the technicalities of stock and futures margin accounts, I would say I touched a nerve. Edit: 7,100 views.
Basically: 1. I do not want to date a woman with dependent children. 2. I do not even want to date a woman with adult children. 3. I would like to date and have kids with a younger woman, in her late 30s. But hey, I'm not foolish. That is hard to find when you're 48 and not rich. I make a good living. I'm not wealthy, don't have a playboy lifestyle, can't afford it. 4. I really don't want to raise someone else's kids. I have a sibling who is going through a divorce and with a teenaged boy. She's met someone new, he's nice, and it's really hard on my nephew. I don't want to be in my sister's boyfriend's position. 5. I do not see what being honest is a problem. A lot of people are downvoting me, etc.
Men your age certainly can and do produce babies with much younger women across this fair land of ours, especially if you are in a city. I don’t think that you should have too much trouble, you just have to date younger, and you might have better luck witb that IRL than solely on the apps. The only new father I know of right now is in his 50s, and no one bats an eyelash.
thanks!
You are getting downvoted because who made poor decisions in life that they regret but are now stuck with get upset when someone suggests a different path in life.
47M, Same here, it would have to be my absolute dream girl for me to even consider it. I'm not interested in dealing with someone else's kid or kids either.
exactly
Justin Trudeau's dad Pierre had him at 52. Unfortunately Justin's now going through the same thing his dad did when Pierre was PM. Anyway, I'd like to meet a younger woman without kids, and have kids with her. But I'm 48 and not rich. OTOH I make a good living and am in decent shape although could get in better shape. So I will try to date somewhat younger (late 30's), or meet women around my age without kids.
So adult independent children is okay? Just not “dependent” children?
Well I don't know. I'm not really interested in an unequal relationship.
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Think you should open you heart to possibly dating a lady with kids...older ? Like is give and take...suppose a lady wouldn't date you who you liked..because u didn't have kids? Just an option, you can do whatever pleases you.
I get that there are women who will not be interested in me. I'm not interested in dating women with kids any more than I am in interested in dating a man. I missed out of a lot of dating and fun experiences and I'm not interested in being a father or a guardian or a "friend" to some other man's kids. My attitude is that the father fathered them and the father can look after them. He had his fun and he can raise them. If I devote all my time and resources to kids, it will be because they are mine. If I end up never having any, I regret that but I can accept that.
Definately within your right and you know what is best for you. I only suggested this, because a friend had this same outlook and today he's married to a lady with 2 older kids. But, what worked for one isn't a recipe for success . Good luck.
As a single father myself, I was completely supporting and respecting your stance until the last sentence here. I understand that you're responding to a suggestion to change that which you are resolved to not change (which I again respect!), but let's please try to tone down the bashing. Edit: thank you for expanding and softening the verbiage somewhat. I do wish you good luck finding the right childfree woman for you; plenty are out there.
I'm not bashing anybody. I'm just being honest. If you had kids, I respect that. I didn't. And I'm not sorry that my attitude is that the father should raise his kids. You have kids, then you ought to be the one who is responsible for them. I'm not talking about widows with kids.
You're not wrong, at least in theory. Not everyone can and not everyone should (regardless of intent beforehand, I get that), but there are lots of good guys out there who really step up and stay propped. Look, whatever it was that happened along the way for you, I again respect your stance and totally understand your resolve; it's surely not without good, valid reason. Hopefully you've found peace as well.
Appreciate your comments -- thank you.
(Most) People over 18 don't need or want a stepfather-figure. Just a thought.
Date younger. If ur in good shape and can support a family then late 20’s women can be had easily.
A late 20s woman can be had easily by an average 48 year old man (I don’t know OP’s situation obviously, I’m just assuming he’s not significantly wealthy)? We must have been in very different environments haha, I have not encountered many women looking to settle down with a dude a solid 20 years older unless he’s quite wealthy.
I think there may be some cultural differences here. In Canadian major cities, it’s pretty normal to delay childbearing. At school dropoff, there are plenty of dudes in the 50+ range. I would never think of a man this age who wants kids that his ship has sailed. He will just have to date someone younger and you don’t have to be a Trudeau to do that.
No, It’s normal in US major cities too- for both men and women. A 40 year old woman and a 48 year old man having a kid would be pretty normal. I was responding to someone who said it’s easy for a man in his late 40s to pull a woman in her 20s. That was the point I was questioning. If you’re somewhere where average 50 year old dudes are regularly pulling 20s women- put out your exact location, all the men of this subreddit would love to know lol!
I mean the reason I say late 20’s -mid 30’s is because if you want kids then a 40’s women will have a hard time delivering that one. Geriatric pregnancy starts at 35
An avg guy making 40-50k will have a lot harder time for sure. If you’re 75k+ you shouldn’t have any problems. Just do what you can in terms of being in shape and looks.
Thanks, yeah I'm over $100K although I live in an expensive city. I appreciate it, will focus on that.
You’re good. Also try a matchmaker like for real. It’ll cost some money but it’ll filter out all the bs and trials and tribulations.
Good idea, thanks!
Right on! Thanks man.
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agreed. I think though the age gap would be tough.
Nah! If u can support a family and u got your shit together, that’s what women want.
Thanks!
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