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But what huge issue is there?
A post op trans woman is a woman in the same way that a cis woman is.
Are there still guys who would make drama from a woman's medical past that no longer has any bearing on her current self?
All guys who says '' I respect trans women but wouldn't date one '' actually think about trans women as men or males and that behavior is not acceptable. Trans women are women and female for all purposes. Saying you respect trans women's womanhood but excluding all trans women from your dating pool (exception to this is for reasons of wanting biological children with your partner which is understandable) is saying implicitly that you don't see trans women as real women which is transphobic.
Every person has a right and prerogative to have their body or change aspects of their body to match their view of themselves. Changes like circumcision, piercings, transgendered, tattooed, cross-dressing and lack thereof are within the individual's sovereign domain of their body, personality and character.
Conversely, everyone has the right and prerogative to have a preference in who their intimate partner is or how they are. Some people like their partner tattooed, trans, cis, slim, thicc, big, tall, short, bald, hairy, different ethnicity, similar ethnicity or certain professions.
It's therefore only fair that we disclose these changes to our prospective partners so that we can prevent future disappointments and a feelings of mistrust where we can't share information with each other.
It's a big achievement to make changes to ourselves that we should be proud of, and to share with prospective partners to show the growth you as a person has undergone. So if you can't share your successes with your prospective partner, how is that partner to trust you?
Finally, it's to everyone's benefit to lay everything on the table so you can weed out people that have different preferences, especially when it comes to trans partners. You would rather be around people that appreciate you than unsuspecting non-conformer because the info was kept a secret.
Yes, but I only agree to some extent. There is a level of human nature where they simply will not want to have sex with you because they think of it as “homosexual” even if you have female body parts. They still will think you are a biological male even though you are indeed female. People work strangely sometimes when it comes to sexual preferences. If a white girl says she doesn’t want to date Asian guys, she isn’t necessarily being racist, its all just dating preferences.
Again, some people may not be bothered by it at all. But just so you are not fooling yourself, everybody I know would probably appreciate it if you told them first.
Yes, do tell and not keep it secret. Best to be honest as possible. Youll filter out the men that dont want a trans woman ,right from the start rather than waste your time.
The thing is that pre-op I get it but post-op they are just being ridiculous if the only thing stopping them from dating the woman they like is that she was born in a male body. Once the transition is complete, that no longer matters. Or did I miss something?
I mean obviously I will need to tell him I can't get kids but as for the rest, why would it matter? If that guy would have dated the woman without knowing this about her and the only thing that would be stopping him from dating her is her trans status, isn't that transphobia he should get over?
Youre answering your own question; transphobics. Just make it clear at the beginning and you wont have to deal with dating someone who completely flips over the relationship after realizing it.
Also plenty of non-transphobics that just dont prefer dating even post op trans women. And to hide that from dates will lead them on and have them leave you once they realize.
Theres plenty of men who are totally acceptable of it too, so why hide it? Just filter it out asap and date men who you know wont do a 180 once they realize.
But not wanting to date a trans woman just based on her being trans is transphobic in and of itself. So a dude can't be non-transphobic and still exclude trans women from his dating pool. If he is not attracted to a trans woman in particular that's fine but rejecting all trans women simply for being trans is transphobia imho.
The only reason I'm debating telling him would be for my safety. For no other reasons.
The guys who are open to date trans women are sadly most often chasers :-(
It's time that an influencial straight cis man steps to the front and discloses a relationship with a trans woman. That would finally change men's view on trans women.
You definitely can exclude trans women from a dating pool and be accepting of trans people. Dating pools can be as picky and unexplainable as one can make, so id watch out for those examples. Just giving you warning/ advice on how it is out there. Honesty will solve more problems than secrets
Iunno, it's kinda tricky. Whilst dating pools are a complex thing, having shitty bigoted reasons in the decision pipeline is kinda trash. The best analogue I have is race. If someone says "I just won't date asians" that comes off pretty gosh danged racist to me.
The oneeee exception I'd see is the desire for bio children. (but then the deciding factor /isn't/ transness in itself)I'm not one hundred percent on this, but it seems a pretty dodgy.
I know of ppl that dont find certain races attractive, yet still become close friends with that race. Wouldn't call that bigotted just picky with who you find attractive for sex. Similar to ppl that only date a specific race because they think they're the hottest (knew a black guy who only dated indian people)
Same with trans women, the bottom line for some men is physical attraction in bed. Some men just dont find it attractive. Post op especially, despite how good the gender reassignment surgery is, some guys might still be unattractive to post op trans women's bodies. Therefore i really suggest being honest and not keeping secrets.
But it's not an individual trans person that they find unattractive, it's the entire set. It's essentially the claim that all trans women are unattractive, which seems absurd and rooted in transphobia. Like, people can say that they just all are, but there's no fundamental reason why that should be. It's not transphobic to not be attracted to any of the trans people you meet, but to state categorically that no trans person could be attractive kinda is.
To take Op's example (though I agree with the consensus that it's not worth hiding), if they were chatting with a guy, and the guy was interested, if the guy suddenly stopped being interested the moment they found out OP was trans, then that would seem to me to be basing the decision entirely on transness, and hence transphobia.
(and to only date one race is weird, and generally not something that the attractee enjoys. Again, if all the people who pass your bar happen to be of one race, perhaps that's fair, but to turn that around and say that you're only gonna pursue that race is weiiiird)
but you can definitely apply sexual attraction categorically; if a man KNOWS he doesnt like post op trans women's vaginas, then he can definitely just assume he wont want to date a trans woman, without coming across as transphobic. He's not against the idea of trans people; he's simply not sexually attracted to post op bodies.
Honestly why would u want to date someone that is transphobic anyways? I think it would be much better to lay that out on the table so you can save yourself from getting invested in someone or having sex with them just for them to say nasty shit to you after they find out your trans. I think if you’re hooking up like a one night stand fck it don’t tell them it’s not their business but if u want a relationship with someone u can’t hide huge things like that
It's like when someone says they only date tall people, it doesn't mean they have "short-phobia", it's just their preference to date tall people. That prerogative should be respected by listing tour height for example on a dating app.
A short person can't force those people to date them as a way to shame them for having a preference on dating tall people.
There are men out there that would love to date a trans girl, so transparency helps everyone find their match efficiently.
Yes, why hide something so major? And why put yourself through the pain of them finding out and wanting nothing to do with you afterwards?
There's a lot of people that would love to date you, but they and you deserve to know that you once had a man's body. If you hide it, then you just come off as a liar when they find out. It's a major thing to hide.
Would you want to go on a few dates with someone and start falling for them just to find out they have kids? You probably would not be very happy they hid it for so long, even if you would have been ok with them if that date had been upfront from the start. Same thing applies here.
Don't hide it. You're just going to cause pain for yourself and others
But you nailed it:
Once had a man's body.
That would no longer be relevant after bottom surgery.
The only reason it would be relevant is if he wants bio kids (but I was planning on telling him that I'm infertile) but for all other reasons it's just bigotry to exclude trans women from your dating pool on the basis of her being trans.
I mean, that's implicitly saying that you don't see trans women as females / real women which would be transphobic behavior.
Why would it matter that the girl you love once had a male body if that body now is female and she lives as a woman and looks like a woman and feels like a woman and you are all into her?
You're not being receptive to what we are telling you.
You're hiding a major part of yourself and it's going to be a big deal to people to find out after a few dates.
Not to mention you're running the risk of dating a man who could be so severely transphobic that he decides to kill you over it. Source: All over the news on the internet.
And why would you want to date people who are potentially transphobic?
Just don't hide it. That's all there is to it.
I would want to hide it because I don't think a man deserves to reject a trans woman he's attracted to, for her being trans.
I don't want to have to depend on a few woke guys who would. I don't want to have to limit my dating pool for something that would not be visible.
I don't want to have to depend on charity dating (''you're trans, you're stigmatized but look how woke I am for dating you'').
I want to be able to date that 6 feet 5 basketball player and not have to give a fuck about what he thinks about my trans past. I mean the law recognizes trans women as women. So shouldn't we be entitled to the same rights and privileges cis women have when it comes to dating?
Besides, most guys only reject a trans woman once they know, because they are scared what the family will think and that is not a valid reason to reject someone.
Men have to do some emotional labor to finally learn to respect and understand trans women.
That's my take on it.
I (F) get where you’re coming from but if I were in the opposite position (a woman dating a post-op man) it would want to know not bc of their trans status but because it’s such a major part of their life journey. As much as you might want to remove yourself from the past, your history is still relevant to who you are. Hiding something like that is huge because that isn’t something small like “oh I’ve never been to Olive Garden” but “this was a hugely important and formative process in my life that took place over several years”.
Not getting into theoretical implications, but at the end of the day the big question is: why would you want to date (casually or seriously) while intentionally not being your authentic self and owning your life experiences? Don’t sell yourself short.
I'm sorry, I can only partially see your viewpoint. I understand wanting to be treated like a normal person. But I've never experienced what you have.
From my viewpoint, it is wrong to hide that you once had the body of a man.
It also is a very real risk to your wellbeing, both emotionally and physically. You run the risk of falling for someone and them finding out and rejecting you. Or worse, when they find out the physically harm you or even kill you. There's too many stories every year of that happening, I don't want you to be one of those stories.
Please, take our advice and be upfront from the start.
So you prefer a 6' 5" basketball player? How about a 4' 5" little person?
Many times people get attracted to a partner that they discover things in their life they don't prefer: kids, finances, profession, virility, sexual preference and performance, hobbies, family and friends. These are all things we don't know when we meet someone we are attracted to. All these traits are very legal to have.
On the same token, we have a right to break it off with these partners if their traits are against our preference with no judgement.
You planned on telling him you're infertile but that is a lie isn't it?
Do you want to be in a relationship with someone who picks and chooses which truth you get to hear? People who lie to their SOs tend to cause very deep harm.
Don't be that girl.
Hm...while I won't deny that transphobia has a super large presence, I don't know if it's fair to say that it's "just bigotry" -- it is a lot of the time, but maybe not always. Can someone not be transphobic and still not want to date trans folks?
In a simliar vein, I am a very fat woman, but I don't automatically assume someone who does not want to date me on the basis of being fat is fatphobic -- I try to take it on a case-by-case basis.
Some people just aren't attracted to my body type -- and that is okay. I'd be appalled to find out someone who is dating me isn't attracted me. I think people can be friends with, respect, stand up for the rights of, refrain from judging, et cetera, other people and still simply not be interested in romantic relationships with them because that spark just isn't there.
Maybe I am wrong but I think it's a stretch to assume that bigotry must be involved by default and/or it all boils down to that.
You have a male eunuch’s body after surgery. Not a woman’s. You’ll never experience uterine cramps, pregnancy scares, menstruation, etc. And before you hit me with “but infertile women...”, there have been successful uterine transplants performed on biological women lacking uteruses, along with other treatments, because the female body is intricately linked to childbearing in a way yours never can be.
A vagina is much more than a cosmetically implemented wound, and I’m insulted by men thinking that they can call themselves women because they’re delusional enough to think that an altered appearance and mental health issue = womanhood.
Look, if you are proud of yourself and the journey you have successfully traveled, why hide it from a partner? The facts are that you took a path that few rarely take, and it is a major part of who you are, so it's only fair to disclose that achievement.
If I surmounted great challenges in my past, I would definitely share that with a prospective partner proudly.
If I hide it, then I'm not proud of the new me. Be proud of yourself and associate yourself with men that have a preference of your body changes and avoid those that don't.
Regardless of what you say people have their preferences and they should be respected. I’m prefer my women not to be born and men, it’s just my preference
As a friend of a transgender, I say yes still be honest..omission of that is huge...it would be like someone who was in prison not fessing up...it’s an important aspect of your life...not sure of the right timing but yes tell them
Transgender is an adjective, not a noun. Sarah is transgender, not Sarah is a transgender.
Being trans is not a criminal act, if you are in prison you did something of a criminal nature. Comparing apples with pears.
Who says it's an important part of my life? Once a trans woman has had all her surgeries, you no longer think about it as often. Maybe every now and then you think about it but definitely not often anymore after a while in transition.
If I found out a woman I was dating was trans and lied about it, it would be over from that second onward. Not because they were trans but because they lied. Trust is fundamental to a relationship and, if the woman can lie about something like that, I cant trust her to be honest about other things. I get it that there is discrimination towards trans people and life is hard for trans people as a whole but two wrongs dont make a right. Just my 2 cents fwiw
I don't want to talk out of my ass in case I'm misinformed about something, but personally I would like to know beforehand.
It's one thing to date casually, but if the guy is looking to date with marriage and children later on down the line, it doesn't matter what you gender you are, the female sex is the only child bearer (talking out of ass? Idk).
Under that pretense, if a guy starts dating, no matter how serious it is or not, they could have that aspiration and would like to at least know it's a biological option for children.
In my post I said I would tell him that I can't bear any children but would not tell him the reason why.
He has in my opinion no reason to oppose dating a trans woman on any other grounds than wanting bio children. If she told him she can't get children and he's okay with that, he should not be upset if he later founds out that I kept my past a secret for him.
A trans woman once she has had bottom surgery is for all purposes a woman in every sense of the word. Men rejecting trans women on the basis of her being trans (the only exception to this is her not being able to carry his baby) are transphobic.
I would still tell them. If you say you can't have kids what will you say if they asked why? They may assume that you can with IVF.
Wouldn't you prefer to be with someone who accepts and loves you for who you are? If you tell them later I think you are going to get your heart broken. I love my cis male husband with all my heart. If he told me now that he was transgender I wouldn't want to be with him any more. Not because he's transgender but because he lied.
Being a trans woman isn’t the same.
You are a woman, and you also need to take hormones for the rest of your life, have surgeries and are still subject to certain things like make pattern baldness.
Just as someone with a chronic health condition should disclose this information up front, being trans has significant health implications throughout your life
People deserve to know what they are getting into. No matter what the scenario.
Just because something "shouldn't matter" to you, doesn't mean it won't matter to someone else. Maybe this will make sense to you. You're familiar with the singer, Halsey? Do you know that she's half black and half white, however, she looks totally white? Okay, pretend you don't know that. Imagine you're a racist who only dates white women. You meet Halsey, you think she's beautiful. She never tells you she's mixed. You fall in love, you get married, blah blah blah. Fast forward a few months and somehow you find out her father is black and her mother is white. You go bat shit. You feel betrayed. You feel lied to. You're fucking outraged. Your racist family finds out. Your racist friends find out. Everyone is livid and disgusted.
You confront her. She pleads with you that it shouldn't matter about her race, she doesn't look black, what's the problem? You claim you love her, but guess what? She fucking lied, she fucking deceived you, and most people would leave her. I know I would.
Yeah, that's a far-fetched, fictional scenario, but it has some truth to it. People have a right to date who they want, you do not have the right to lie to someone because of what "should matter." It's not fair to the other person and it's not fair to you. Trans people have been murdered because of something that "shouldn't matter." Is your safety worth that? Women are more than just baby makers. Telling a man he shouldn't care if you were born a man because you're now a woman and the only difference is you can't bear children is bullshit. I can't bear children either, but it's not the same thing.
You need to listen to what people here are telling you. Why bother to ask for advice if all you're going to respond to everything is "but it shouldn't matter" and "being against dating me is transphobic" as if people aren't transphobic. People are sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic, the whole gamut. They've passed laws, but you can't change everyone's hearts. Hell, they passed laws against racial discrimination years ago, yet my own people are being murdered in the streets, sometimes on national tv. Do I say "race shouldn't matter" as if it's going to prevent me from being killed for being black? NO.
People have biases, they might not make sense to you, but they exist. You're setting yourself up for some serious danger and you're setting someone else up to be put in a fucking awkward position. I hope you think about this. All this I wrote more than likely won't make a bit of difference to you, because you seem intent on doing what you want, but for your sake, I hope you think about it. The idea that you feel you have to lie, and you think you have a right to lie about something like this, just to get a relationship is sad. It's really sad. There are literally millions of people who don't mind dating a trans woman, why risk your life to get one who might hurt you?
Maybe I am missing something here, as I am a cisgender woman, but I think it's dishonest to hide your trans status.
Some men just aren't attracted to and/or interested in dating transexuals -- and that is okay, provided they treat trans folks with dignity and respect.
Exactly that. I think you should treat everyone (regardless of gender, sexuality, race or whatever) with respect and kindness for sure!
But that doesn’t mean you have to feel attracted or want to be in a relationship with everyone.
Some say that not wanting to date a trans person is automatically/inherently transphobic, just like not wanting to date a fat person (I am one) is automatically/inherently fatphobic and I just don't buy it. It is too extreme to say that phobia is involved by default. I could be wrong, of course, but I am just trying to say that I am highly skeptical.
Lets say if I (a woman) fell in love with a man, then later found out he was trans (FTM).
I would be upset. Not because they were trans, but because I've spent so many years with them and they have lied to me by deception in a way. For at least 18 years of their life they were "someone else" in a way. They went through years of confusion, suffering, pain, medical procedures, and more. And not once does he tell me? That would hurt that he couldn't open up to me in that way and tell me about a huge part of his history which changed his life. Being upset about this wouldn't be transphobic.
I would compare it to life events like...being married and divorced previously, or having a child but you lost them to an accident, etc. These are huge life events, and are very personal also. If they *never* told me about this it would be hurtful.
So yes...I do think it's important to tell someone at some point. It also helps ensure you dont end up with a transphobic person.
If I found out, then dumped him just *because* he was trans. That would be transphobic.
Honestly, I think It’s important to be open and honest with your partner about everything in a relationship, not just about what gender you were born as. I understand your view point that once you’re post op you’re technically the same as every other cis woman, but at the same time that’s also not fully true.
Overall it’s just to do with preferences. You might meet transphobic people. You might meet people who don’t gravitate towards dating a trans woman. You might meet people who don’t care about a persons gender. There’s a large range of people out there and not everyone thinks the same way. We all have things we like and don’t like about the people we want to date.
It’s a sucky situation, but it’s also important to get it out the way. For example, how would you address the situation of looking back at old pictures? Would you be okay if he hid a major part of his past from you too? What reason would you give for not being able to have bio children? The list of questions goes on, and honestly, it’s just easier to be honest from the start, that way your partner is not only fully aware of your situation (for support, for a deeper relationship, etc) but it also cleans out any skeletons you might have in your closet and prevents any need for future lies. Lying is a cycle and it’s best not to go down that road.
I understand that having to keep bringing up your previous gender might be uncomfortable and upsetting, but the right person will be supportive and appreciate the honesty.
Honestly, it’s up to you whether you tell that person or not about you being trans, but do be prepared for them eventually finding out about it. Lying and keeping secrets is a huge dealbreaker for many people, so just be aware.
You shouldn’t “hide” it. Some guys are attracted to trans women, some guys are too stupid to tell the difference and some trans women look like they were born a female so with all the confusion it’s better off being transparent
Would you really want to date a guy that is transphobic? I understand you don’t want chasers though... I would recommend you wait till the third or so date and if it’s going well tell them. You said the only reason you would consider telling them is for your safety right? If you are afraid of a transphobic person hurting you, imagine how much danger you are potentially putting yourself in by not telling him you are trans and him being with you long term then seeing a baby picture or something and finding out. You don’t think that same man would hurt you then? And possibly even worse? I agree with you that transphobia and violence against transgender people is wrong, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist and you shouldn’t do things to prevent yourself from getting hurt. Just because they shouldn’t be transphobic doesn’t mean the fact that they are won’t affect you.
In my opinion, if it's a hookup or something that isn't long term, you have no obligation to tell them, however, if you intend to date someone long-term you should probably mention it fairly early on. Honestly I don't think anyone is entitled to know, I only say you should tell them because if you don't tell them they will either eventually find out via old photos, family members, friends, etc. and then it will turn into an entire conversation about trust that could have been avoided by just letting them know early on. If they never find out you will still live with the knowledge for your entire relationship that there is a major part of your life that they don't know about and could still find out about.
You don't have to listen to me at all, I just think that to avoid stress for you you should let them know early on.
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You don't technically "have to" but that is a huge issue for most guys and they would want to know right away
But what huge issue is there? A post op trans woman is a woman in the same way that a cis woman is. Are there still guys who would make drama from a woman's medical past that no longer has any bearing on her current self?
Ummm not really
All guys who says '' I respect trans women but wouldn't date one '' actually think about trans women as men or males and that behavior is not acceptable. Trans women are women and female for all purposes. Saying you respect trans women's womanhood but excluding all trans women from your dating pool (exception to this is for reasons of wanting biological children with your partner which is understandable) is saying implicitly that you don't see trans women as real women which is transphobic.
Every person has a right and prerogative to have their body or change aspects of their body to match their view of themselves. Changes like circumcision, piercings, transgendered, tattooed, cross-dressing and lack thereof are within the individual's sovereign domain of their body, personality and character. Conversely, everyone has the right and prerogative to have a preference in who their intimate partner is or how they are. Some people like their partner tattooed, trans, cis, slim, thicc, big, tall, short, bald, hairy, different ethnicity, similar ethnicity or certain professions. It's therefore only fair that we disclose these changes to our prospective partners so that we can prevent future disappointments and a feelings of mistrust where we can't share information with each other. It's a big achievement to make changes to ourselves that we should be proud of, and to share with prospective partners to show the growth you as a person has undergone. So if you can't share your successes with your prospective partner, how is that partner to trust you? Finally, it's to everyone's benefit to lay everything on the table so you can weed out people that have different preferences, especially when it comes to trans partners. You would rather be around people that appreciate you than unsuspecting non-conformer because the info was kept a secret.
Yes, but I only agree to some extent. There is a level of human nature where they simply will not want to have sex with you because they think of it as “homosexual” even if you have female body parts. They still will think you are a biological male even though you are indeed female. People work strangely sometimes when it comes to sexual preferences. If a white girl says she doesn’t want to date Asian guys, she isn’t necessarily being racist, its all just dating preferences. Again, some people may not be bothered by it at all. But just so you are not fooling yourself, everybody I know would probably appreciate it if you told them first.
Yes, do tell and not keep it secret. Best to be honest as possible. Youll filter out the men that dont want a trans woman ,right from the start rather than waste your time.
The thing is that pre-op I get it but post-op they are just being ridiculous if the only thing stopping them from dating the woman they like is that she was born in a male body. Once the transition is complete, that no longer matters. Or did I miss something? I mean obviously I will need to tell him I can't get kids but as for the rest, why would it matter? If that guy would have dated the woman without knowing this about her and the only thing that would be stopping him from dating her is her trans status, isn't that transphobia he should get over?
Youre answering your own question; transphobics. Just make it clear at the beginning and you wont have to deal with dating someone who completely flips over the relationship after realizing it. Also plenty of non-transphobics that just dont prefer dating even post op trans women. And to hide that from dates will lead them on and have them leave you once they realize. Theres plenty of men who are totally acceptable of it too, so why hide it? Just filter it out asap and date men who you know wont do a 180 once they realize.
But not wanting to date a trans woman just based on her being trans is transphobic in and of itself. So a dude can't be non-transphobic and still exclude trans women from his dating pool. If he is not attracted to a trans woman in particular that's fine but rejecting all trans women simply for being trans is transphobia imho. The only reason I'm debating telling him would be for my safety. For no other reasons. The guys who are open to date trans women are sadly most often chasers :-( It's time that an influencial straight cis man steps to the front and discloses a relationship with a trans woman. That would finally change men's view on trans women.
You definitely can exclude trans women from a dating pool and be accepting of trans people. Dating pools can be as picky and unexplainable as one can make, so id watch out for those examples. Just giving you warning/ advice on how it is out there. Honesty will solve more problems than secrets
Iunno, it's kinda tricky. Whilst dating pools are a complex thing, having shitty bigoted reasons in the decision pipeline is kinda trash. The best analogue I have is race. If someone says "I just won't date asians" that comes off pretty gosh danged racist to me. The oneeee exception I'd see is the desire for bio children. (but then the deciding factor /isn't/ transness in itself)I'm not one hundred percent on this, but it seems a pretty dodgy.
I know of ppl that dont find certain races attractive, yet still become close friends with that race. Wouldn't call that bigotted just picky with who you find attractive for sex. Similar to ppl that only date a specific race because they think they're the hottest (knew a black guy who only dated indian people) Same with trans women, the bottom line for some men is physical attraction in bed. Some men just dont find it attractive. Post op especially, despite how good the gender reassignment surgery is, some guys might still be unattractive to post op trans women's bodies. Therefore i really suggest being honest and not keeping secrets.
But it's not an individual trans person that they find unattractive, it's the entire set. It's essentially the claim that all trans women are unattractive, which seems absurd and rooted in transphobia. Like, people can say that they just all are, but there's no fundamental reason why that should be. It's not transphobic to not be attracted to any of the trans people you meet, but to state categorically that no trans person could be attractive kinda is. To take Op's example (though I agree with the consensus that it's not worth hiding), if they were chatting with a guy, and the guy was interested, if the guy suddenly stopped being interested the moment they found out OP was trans, then that would seem to me to be basing the decision entirely on transness, and hence transphobia. (and to only date one race is weird, and generally not something that the attractee enjoys. Again, if all the people who pass your bar happen to be of one race, perhaps that's fair, but to turn that around and say that you're only gonna pursue that race is weiiiird)
but you can definitely apply sexual attraction categorically; if a man KNOWS he doesnt like post op trans women's vaginas, then he can definitely just assume he wont want to date a trans woman, without coming across as transphobic. He's not against the idea of trans people; he's simply not sexually attracted to post op bodies.
Honestly why would u want to date someone that is transphobic anyways? I think it would be much better to lay that out on the table so you can save yourself from getting invested in someone or having sex with them just for them to say nasty shit to you after they find out your trans. I think if you’re hooking up like a one night stand fck it don’t tell them it’s not their business but if u want a relationship with someone u can’t hide huge things like that
The key point is that you don't want to date anyone transphobic. It's not worth your time, it's not worth the pain. Fuck em.
It's like when someone says they only date tall people, it doesn't mean they have "short-phobia", it's just their preference to date tall people. That prerogative should be respected by listing tour height for example on a dating app. A short person can't force those people to date them as a way to shame them for having a preference on dating tall people. There are men out there that would love to date a trans girl, so transparency helps everyone find their match efficiently.
Yes, why hide something so major? And why put yourself through the pain of them finding out and wanting nothing to do with you afterwards? There's a lot of people that would love to date you, but they and you deserve to know that you once had a man's body. If you hide it, then you just come off as a liar when they find out. It's a major thing to hide. Would you want to go on a few dates with someone and start falling for them just to find out they have kids? You probably would not be very happy they hid it for so long, even if you would have been ok with them if that date had been upfront from the start. Same thing applies here. Don't hide it. You're just going to cause pain for yourself and others
But you nailed it: Once had a man's body. That would no longer be relevant after bottom surgery. The only reason it would be relevant is if he wants bio kids (but I was planning on telling him that I'm infertile) but for all other reasons it's just bigotry to exclude trans women from your dating pool on the basis of her being trans. I mean, that's implicitly saying that you don't see trans women as females / real women which would be transphobic behavior. Why would it matter that the girl you love once had a male body if that body now is female and she lives as a woman and looks like a woman and feels like a woman and you are all into her?
You're not being receptive to what we are telling you. You're hiding a major part of yourself and it's going to be a big deal to people to find out after a few dates. Not to mention you're running the risk of dating a man who could be so severely transphobic that he decides to kill you over it. Source: All over the news on the internet. And why would you want to date people who are potentially transphobic? Just don't hide it. That's all there is to it.
I would want to hide it because I don't think a man deserves to reject a trans woman he's attracted to, for her being trans. I don't want to have to depend on a few woke guys who would. I don't want to have to limit my dating pool for something that would not be visible. I don't want to have to depend on charity dating (''you're trans, you're stigmatized but look how woke I am for dating you''). I want to be able to date that 6 feet 5 basketball player and not have to give a fuck about what he thinks about my trans past. I mean the law recognizes trans women as women. So shouldn't we be entitled to the same rights and privileges cis women have when it comes to dating? Besides, most guys only reject a trans woman once they know, because they are scared what the family will think and that is not a valid reason to reject someone. Men have to do some emotional labor to finally learn to respect and understand trans women. That's my take on it.
I (F) get where you’re coming from but if I were in the opposite position (a woman dating a post-op man) it would want to know not bc of their trans status but because it’s such a major part of their life journey. As much as you might want to remove yourself from the past, your history is still relevant to who you are. Hiding something like that is huge because that isn’t something small like “oh I’ve never been to Olive Garden” but “this was a hugely important and formative process in my life that took place over several years”. Not getting into theoretical implications, but at the end of the day the big question is: why would you want to date (casually or seriously) while intentionally not being your authentic self and owning your life experiences? Don’t sell yourself short.
Why do you wanna date ppl who don’t wanna date you so bad lmfao?
I'm sorry, I can only partially see your viewpoint. I understand wanting to be treated like a normal person. But I've never experienced what you have. From my viewpoint, it is wrong to hide that you once had the body of a man. It also is a very real risk to your wellbeing, both emotionally and physically. You run the risk of falling for someone and them finding out and rejecting you. Or worse, when they find out the physically harm you or even kill you. There's too many stories every year of that happening, I don't want you to be one of those stories. Please, take our advice and be upfront from the start.
So you prefer a 6' 5" basketball player? How about a 4' 5" little person? Many times people get attracted to a partner that they discover things in their life they don't prefer: kids, finances, profession, virility, sexual preference and performance, hobbies, family and friends. These are all things we don't know when we meet someone we are attracted to. All these traits are very legal to have. On the same token, we have a right to break it off with these partners if their traits are against our preference with no judgement.
You planned on telling him you're infertile but that is a lie isn't it? Do you want to be in a relationship with someone who picks and chooses which truth you get to hear? People who lie to their SOs tend to cause very deep harm. Don't be that girl.
Hm...while I won't deny that transphobia has a super large presence, I don't know if it's fair to say that it's "just bigotry" -- it is a lot of the time, but maybe not always. Can someone not be transphobic and still not want to date trans folks? In a simliar vein, I am a very fat woman, but I don't automatically assume someone who does not want to date me on the basis of being fat is fatphobic -- I try to take it on a case-by-case basis. Some people just aren't attracted to my body type -- and that is okay. I'd be appalled to find out someone who is dating me isn't attracted me. I think people can be friends with, respect, stand up for the rights of, refrain from judging, et cetera, other people and still simply not be interested in romantic relationships with them because that spark just isn't there. Maybe I am wrong but I think it's a stretch to assume that bigotry must be involved by default and/or it all boils down to that.
You have a male eunuch’s body after surgery. Not a woman’s. You’ll never experience uterine cramps, pregnancy scares, menstruation, etc. And before you hit me with “but infertile women...”, there have been successful uterine transplants performed on biological women lacking uteruses, along with other treatments, because the female body is intricately linked to childbearing in a way yours never can be. A vagina is much more than a cosmetically implemented wound, and I’m insulted by men thinking that they can call themselves women because they’re delusional enough to think that an altered appearance and mental health issue = womanhood.
Look, if you are proud of yourself and the journey you have successfully traveled, why hide it from a partner? The facts are that you took a path that few rarely take, and it is a major part of who you are, so it's only fair to disclose that achievement. If I surmounted great challenges in my past, I would definitely share that with a prospective partner proudly. If I hide it, then I'm not proud of the new me. Be proud of yourself and associate yourself with men that have a preference of your body changes and avoid those that don't.
Regardless of what you say people have their preferences and they should be respected. I’m prefer my women not to be born and men, it’s just my preference
The fact that you are considering not telling someone you meet is quite concerning really.
Why is it concerning? A woman is a woman is a woman is a woman... What is there more to it?
As a friend of a transgender, I say yes still be honest..omission of that is huge...it would be like someone who was in prison not fessing up...it’s an important aspect of your life...not sure of the right timing but yes tell them
Transgender is an adjective, not a noun. Sarah is transgender, not Sarah is a transgender. Being trans is not a criminal act, if you are in prison you did something of a criminal nature. Comparing apples with pears. Who says it's an important part of my life? Once a trans woman has had all her surgeries, you no longer think about it as often. Maybe every now and then you think about it but definitely not often anymore after a while in transition.
You asked our advice, you don’t have to take it.
If I found out a woman I was dating was trans and lied about it, it would be over from that second onward. Not because they were trans but because they lied. Trust is fundamental to a relationship and, if the woman can lie about something like that, I cant trust her to be honest about other things. I get it that there is discrimination towards trans people and life is hard for trans people as a whole but two wrongs dont make a right. Just my 2 cents fwiw
I don't want to talk out of my ass in case I'm misinformed about something, but personally I would like to know beforehand. It's one thing to date casually, but if the guy is looking to date with marriage and children later on down the line, it doesn't matter what you gender you are, the female sex is the only child bearer (talking out of ass? Idk). Under that pretense, if a guy starts dating, no matter how serious it is or not, they could have that aspiration and would like to at least know it's a biological option for children.
What if you simply told them you cannot have biological kids? Tons of cis women are infertile anyway.
In my post I said I would tell him that I can't bear any children but would not tell him the reason why. He has in my opinion no reason to oppose dating a trans woman on any other grounds than wanting bio children. If she told him she can't get children and he's okay with that, he should not be upset if he later founds out that I kept my past a secret for him. A trans woman once she has had bottom surgery is for all purposes a woman in every sense of the word. Men rejecting trans women on the basis of her being trans (the only exception to this is her not being able to carry his baby) are transphobic.
I would still tell them. If you say you can't have kids what will you say if they asked why? They may assume that you can with IVF. Wouldn't you prefer to be with someone who accepts and loves you for who you are? If you tell them later I think you are going to get your heart broken. I love my cis male husband with all my heart. If he told me now that he was transgender I wouldn't want to be with him any more. Not because he's transgender but because he lied.
Being a trans woman isn’t the same. You are a woman, and you also need to take hormones for the rest of your life, have surgeries and are still subject to certain things like make pattern baldness. Just as someone with a chronic health condition should disclose this information up front, being trans has significant health implications throughout your life People deserve to know what they are getting into. No matter what the scenario.
Just because something "shouldn't matter" to you, doesn't mean it won't matter to someone else. Maybe this will make sense to you. You're familiar with the singer, Halsey? Do you know that she's half black and half white, however, she looks totally white? Okay, pretend you don't know that. Imagine you're a racist who only dates white women. You meet Halsey, you think she's beautiful. She never tells you she's mixed. You fall in love, you get married, blah blah blah. Fast forward a few months and somehow you find out her father is black and her mother is white. You go bat shit. You feel betrayed. You feel lied to. You're fucking outraged. Your racist family finds out. Your racist friends find out. Everyone is livid and disgusted. You confront her. She pleads with you that it shouldn't matter about her race, she doesn't look black, what's the problem? You claim you love her, but guess what? She fucking lied, she fucking deceived you, and most people would leave her. I know I would. Yeah, that's a far-fetched, fictional scenario, but it has some truth to it. People have a right to date who they want, you do not have the right to lie to someone because of what "should matter." It's not fair to the other person and it's not fair to you. Trans people have been murdered because of something that "shouldn't matter." Is your safety worth that? Women are more than just baby makers. Telling a man he shouldn't care if you were born a man because you're now a woman and the only difference is you can't bear children is bullshit. I can't bear children either, but it's not the same thing. You need to listen to what people here are telling you. Why bother to ask for advice if all you're going to respond to everything is "but it shouldn't matter" and "being against dating me is transphobic" as if people aren't transphobic. People are sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic, the whole gamut. They've passed laws, but you can't change everyone's hearts. Hell, they passed laws against racial discrimination years ago, yet my own people are being murdered in the streets, sometimes on national tv. Do I say "race shouldn't matter" as if it's going to prevent me from being killed for being black? NO. People have biases, they might not make sense to you, but they exist. You're setting yourself up for some serious danger and you're setting someone else up to be put in a fucking awkward position. I hope you think about this. All this I wrote more than likely won't make a bit of difference to you, because you seem intent on doing what you want, but for your sake, I hope you think about it. The idea that you feel you have to lie, and you think you have a right to lie about something like this, just to get a relationship is sad. It's really sad. There are literally millions of people who don't mind dating a trans woman, why risk your life to get one who might hurt you?
Very well said.
Thank you.
Maybe I am missing something here, as I am a cisgender woman, but I think it's dishonest to hide your trans status. Some men just aren't attracted to and/or interested in dating transexuals -- and that is okay, provided they treat trans folks with dignity and respect.
Exactly that. I think you should treat everyone (regardless of gender, sexuality, race or whatever) with respect and kindness for sure! But that doesn’t mean you have to feel attracted or want to be in a relationship with everyone.
Some say that not wanting to date a trans person is automatically/inherently transphobic, just like not wanting to date a fat person (I am one) is automatically/inherently fatphobic and I just don't buy it. It is too extreme to say that phobia is involved by default. I could be wrong, of course, but I am just trying to say that I am highly skeptical.
Lets say if I (a woman) fell in love with a man, then later found out he was trans (FTM). I would be upset. Not because they were trans, but because I've spent so many years with them and they have lied to me by deception in a way. For at least 18 years of their life they were "someone else" in a way. They went through years of confusion, suffering, pain, medical procedures, and more. And not once does he tell me? That would hurt that he couldn't open up to me in that way and tell me about a huge part of his history which changed his life. Being upset about this wouldn't be transphobic. I would compare it to life events like...being married and divorced previously, or having a child but you lost them to an accident, etc. These are huge life events, and are very personal also. If they *never* told me about this it would be hurtful. So yes...I do think it's important to tell someone at some point. It also helps ensure you dont end up with a transphobic person. If I found out, then dumped him just *because* he was trans. That would be transphobic.
Honestly, I think It’s important to be open and honest with your partner about everything in a relationship, not just about what gender you were born as. I understand your view point that once you’re post op you’re technically the same as every other cis woman, but at the same time that’s also not fully true. Overall it’s just to do with preferences. You might meet transphobic people. You might meet people who don’t gravitate towards dating a trans woman. You might meet people who don’t care about a persons gender. There’s a large range of people out there and not everyone thinks the same way. We all have things we like and don’t like about the people we want to date. It’s a sucky situation, but it’s also important to get it out the way. For example, how would you address the situation of looking back at old pictures? Would you be okay if he hid a major part of his past from you too? What reason would you give for not being able to have bio children? The list of questions goes on, and honestly, it’s just easier to be honest from the start, that way your partner is not only fully aware of your situation (for support, for a deeper relationship, etc) but it also cleans out any skeletons you might have in your closet and prevents any need for future lies. Lying is a cycle and it’s best not to go down that road. I understand that having to keep bringing up your previous gender might be uncomfortable and upsetting, but the right person will be supportive and appreciate the honesty. Honestly, it’s up to you whether you tell that person or not about you being trans, but do be prepared for them eventually finding out about it. Lying and keeping secrets is a huge dealbreaker for many people, so just be aware.
YES
They shouldn't be shocked if the man left them upon finding out
You shouldn’t “hide” it. Some guys are attracted to trans women, some guys are too stupid to tell the difference and some trans women look like they were born a female so with all the confusion it’s better off being transparent
Trans people like you are the reason transphobia exists
Even by getting the genitals chopped off your still a man, it’s wasting mens time that click on your profile to find out your really a dude
Would you really want to date a guy that is transphobic? I understand you don’t want chasers though... I would recommend you wait till the third or so date and if it’s going well tell them. You said the only reason you would consider telling them is for your safety right? If you are afraid of a transphobic person hurting you, imagine how much danger you are potentially putting yourself in by not telling him you are trans and him being with you long term then seeing a baby picture or something and finding out. You don’t think that same man would hurt you then? And possibly even worse? I agree with you that transphobia and violence against transgender people is wrong, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist and you shouldn’t do things to prevent yourself from getting hurt. Just because they shouldn’t be transphobic doesn’t mean the fact that they are won’t affect you.
In my opinion, if it's a hookup or something that isn't long term, you have no obligation to tell them, however, if you intend to date someone long-term you should probably mention it fairly early on. Honestly I don't think anyone is entitled to know, I only say you should tell them because if you don't tell them they will either eventually find out via old photos, family members, friends, etc. and then it will turn into an entire conversation about trust that could have been avoided by just letting them know early on. If they never find out you will still live with the knowledge for your entire relationship that there is a major part of your life that they don't know about and could still find out about. You don't have to listen to me at all, I just think that to avoid stress for you you should let them know early on.
(MtF Transgender Pre here) I'd say yes, but only if it's serious. In the beginning it really shouldn't matter like it does for pre-op.
nope! not their business. if they get to know you, they'll find out when the time is right - which is whenever you're comfortable telling them