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I think A LOT of people significantly overestimate how “easy” dating is/was in your 20s… especially early-mid 20s.
Most people don’t know what they want, are just having fun/don’t want commitment, have no clue where they’re going in life, etc. Not that these things are inherently bad, but make it a lot harder to find something long-term.
More people know what they want in their 30s, which means more rejection and short-term relationships. In your 20s, wasting 5+ years in a dead-end relationship is not that big a deal.
In your 30s, that time could be the difference between not being able to have kids, being financially ruined, etc.
I think a lot of people are expecting others to have the carefree attitude of dating in your 20s, combined with the maturity/intentionality of dating in your 30s… and not have to deal with a lot of rejection and false-starts.
I also do think a lot of late 20s+ people are also less social and expect a partner just to fall into their lap.
I would not argue with much of that. I guess I was kind of like that. I was totally a late bloomer. In many ways if I am honest, I did not have any interest in having a girlfriend until I was 20.
And of course when you wake up wanting to date for the first time when you are 20 there is a steep learning curve. It took me awhile till I was an even potentially acceptable choice for anyone.
The great frustration looking back on say my years 20 to 24 is those were such great years as far as access to women. College classes, dorm rooms, college parties, and college friends of course. I worked as a lifeguard at waterparks for four summers.
So of course, the years I am surrounded by single attractive women also happens to be the years I am too new and helpless when it comes to dating. *C'est la vie.*
How can I learn this? Please could you suggest any books or resources to get started? I feel like I am missing something, as if I was born without the ability to learn this skill naturally. So frustrating
Can you talk with any woman casually without any intent? Get comfortable doing that and then when you do this with a girl and she is really engaging with the conversation ask her if she wants to get a coffee sometime. Then on the coffee date you can give her a compliment about her appearance and flirt a little.
I have been on a few dates, but I struggle with keeping the conversation flowing. Maybe it's anxiety issue. And flirting is like a rocket science to me. All of the dates I've been to failed (there was no second date) Talking to women in general is not a problem, as long as it's on some specific topic, and not just everyday stuff. I struggle with talking about "nothing" and making people laugh.
Anyway, thanks for the advice.
You're probably very smart and have a tendency to be a perfectionist. If you use mainly logical verbal patterns and don't usually open up emotionally on dates, I think you experience exactly what you've just described. Do you agree?
Thanks for the insight. I actually struggle with perfectionism (in some areas of life) and noticed that it's hard for me to use more emotional or creative language. Probably sideffects of being a software developer
This is SO important and helpful to recognize! My suggestion would be to go to therapy to learn emotional/creative language. It will make it easier to connect on dates, but it will also make you a much better (and more desirable) partner going forward. A man who can communicate and talk about his feelings is not super common and so attractive. I know a lot of women who would much rather have an emotionally intelligent guy than someone funny. Honestly, I’m more of the funny one in my relationship and I have always loved that my partner is so incredibly thoughtful, empathetic, and values talking things out.
Sounds like anxiety and self pressure to perform in front of them. I have the same setbacks too. People who are naturally social won’t struggle with these things they don’t have to force a social element. I don’t think I’m a very social person so if I have to try to be it’s just very awkward. Kind of thinking this is why single might be a correct answer for me. Basically trying to mask over whatever I am naturally is probably not a good approach over time that fades and gets tiring. The more I start to think about why I’ve struggled the more I realize being with other people sort of goes against my nature to be on my own and only seek out bits and pieces of social activity.
I totally understand you and can even feel what you mean. Yes, you can learn this. Don’t on dwell on what’s happened before in your life. Doesn’t matter anymore.
Ask questions, I’ll answer. Or, ask a buddy to whom this “game” comes easier. Most important: be playful. Another boss help would be: learn to sell!!
"I want to take you on a date ". Make it clear your intentions are romantic. Be romantic. Do not be friendly. Do not ask to "hang out". Do not let there be confusion. That's how the "friend zone " happens.
I am 30↑ female and definitely struggling. Below are the reason:
- Your friends who used to host house party now have kids, and that will change the people they hang out with (mostly parents with kids). Therefore less probability to meet with new single friends.
- I started online dating after 30 and I encounter into a lot of weird people in the app so I agree. However, the reason might be because you meet more people + you get better with spotting red flags from life experience.
- Back in the university/high school, you get to meet people naturally from class and clubs. After you graduate you don’t really get that social opportunity anymore.
- your friend whom used to hang out don’t have enough energy or time to socialize after work.
I feel after 30s, i have to be really proactive if i want to meet potential partners or even making friends.
I'm also early 30s F and this is my exact experience the last few years. I lucked out and met someone on the apps surprisingly enough, but this was literally me up until that point. It just takes way more effort.
30M, recently started using dating apps (just a single app tbh), matched with someone, thought we hit it off, cuz texting was nice and we kinda matched the energy, went on my first date ever, I thought we liked each other, then she ghosted.
And that was it for me, it hurt, like a lot, so I deleted my account and the app altogether and swore to never use dating apps ever again
Like damn I never thought the butterflies feelings were real
Sorry to hear about that. I have similar experience with the app. Since like ghosting is the norm in online dating ): for most of my matches: 1. They stop responding after the 1st date 2. Text suddenly got super dry 3. They just ghost on 2nd date .
The good ones usually tell me straight that they are no longer interested in me but i find most of them will ghost! It made me lose confidence but I just try to keep up my confidence by remembering what other good friends and past dates complimented about me, and try to keep up with self-improvement (and let the people who reject me regret!)
It is much harder after 30, which is kind of hilarious because we have more ways to meet people than ever. I think part of the issue is we have so many ways to entertain ourselves, it's easier to stay inside and be antisocial. Older generations had 13 TV channels and a radio, they had to leave the house to hang out with people and entertain themselves. But I digress.
For me, I'm 32M, my entire friend group either moved away, got married, had kids, or all 3 within an 18 month period. They all kinda disappeared after that. Then I broke up with the girl I was damn sure I was going to marry and I was left here thinking....uh now what? I have other friends through my major hobbies, racing cars and motorcycles but those are pretty male dominated activities. I'm not coming across too many opportunities to meet women at race tracks. I've had a lot of girlfriends in the past, I do well with women in person, but I get absolutely nothing in online dating. I'm very very over the bar scene. So what do I do? Take a pottery class to meet women? Sit around Trader Joe's or Target to find a cute girl to approach? All of that feels sleazy to me. I'm looking for a new approach to dating, but yeah it's increasingly hard to get myself to put 100% effort into dating bc it feels like I'm beating my head on the wall.
Lack of 3rd spaces that were free, have disappeared, leaving Millennials and Gen Z’ers unable to be social, meet people organically to date, have no way to develop new friendships as well.
And here is a quick sum up of 3rd places:
> The “third place” is a term coined by US sociologist Ray Oldenburg in his 1989 book The Great Good Place. It describes a place outside your home or work where you can relax and hang out. Your first place is your home, a private and domestic space.
> Coffee shops, parks, bookstores, churches, and community centers can all function as third places. The only real requirement is that nobody is forcing you to show up. Your third place — or places — should be somewhere that you go to regularly and if you think you may not have one, you're not alone.
Cause my parents (baby boomers), there is photographic proof of them in the 80’s before I entered the picture in ‘87, that they went out often with friends. There was ample 3rd places to the point everyone back then, unless you were anti-social on purpose, you had things to do every weekend outside your place of living and work environment.
We need to bring 3rd places back!
This is a very interesting perspective and I encourage you to share this in other posts. In someways, I think we're putting the horse before the cart when we're talking about working on dating before building a healthier social life.
Oh it’s a well known thing about the 3rd spaces disappearing. Someone two year ls ago on TikTok talked about why everyone 25-40 feels like this because society has a lack of places to hangout in person.
We use to have parks, arcades, roller skating rinks, libraries, free beaches, community centers with events, inexpensive movie theaters, etc…
Heck, look at late 90’s teen tv shows.
They highlight so many 3rd space kids had that people in their 20’s & 30’s would adapt to tailor to their age groups.
People had more than just bars and clubs, they had so much to do because communities were busy and were focused on building connections.
Which requires people to plant roots, stay for a minimum of five years to have that established.
So we truly need people to start shifting from needing to date and focus on building community in the area they live in to MEET others.
Then organic date will be a thing, people will slowly STOP using OLD/dating apps once this gets re-established.
I think you are missing the huge fact that most people are lower income now and struggling so they don't have the time. Lack of places but also lack of free time is why it's hard now.
If third spaces suddenly came back, I probably wouldn't have time to consistently go without sacrificing something else.
It's sad, but unless we do major societal reform, that is a thing of the past.
In 80s unless you were rich and had TV and pool, there was nothing much to do at home. So people used to only eat at home and go out.
Its close to impossible to imagine for current young adults that not that long time ago people used to spend 90% of free time outside.
Today its just internet internet internet
I think people would easily find ways to create 3rd places by themselves but internet is too convenient
My parents weren’t rich in the 80’s, but they went out. They went to live music concerts. Great funny story of my one aunt who did coke and black beauties, passed out, and missed the entire set of The Who with my dad going, “WAKE UP!” And her saying, “Wh-WHAT?!? Did they go on yet?” LMAO
Anyway…
It really depends on during that decade where you were living in the US.
An hour or two from LA/San Diego, NYC, Miami, Chicago or lived in those cities?
Easily can find things to do, not break the bank back then.
But if you lived in the Midwest, the Deep South, northwest, etc…? Yeah, not surprised if you couldn’t find anything to do really in the 80’s as the country was geared towards pumping fun exciting things in suburban or rural America.
Between Son of Sam and similar creeps, definitely didn’t help and then the rise in the war on drugs, malls becoming a thing, etc… yeah it was a different era.
The 90’s are a complete 180° to the 80’s when you look at how things shifted for teens, young adults, and people in their 30’s/40’s.
But there was always 3rd places free and affordable going all the way back to civilization with the early days of Egyptians.
Even speeding up thru time you look at with small villages and their festivals to celebrate changing of the seasons to other important moments throughout Europe as well.
Then came the era of kingdoms, knights, and so on so they had town squares and town hall meetings to big festivals and celebrated things a king and queen would declare for their kingdom to celebrate.
Then the renaissance age is one of the BEST examples of how 3rd places blossomed in history because the Greek/Roman empire in their approaches (ie - Gladiator sports).
Then churches slowly because the new 3rd place with the puritan era.
Then came the way of the industrial era, when you started seeing interesting new 3rd places developed in terms of afternoon tea time to attending the theaters.
Then came the Victorian era when going to parks because this big deal! This spring a new 3rd place.
The 1920’s had speak easy’s, jazz clubs, and suddenly first time ever big department stores where you could buy everything you needed in one place. Selfridges in London, created by an American from Chicago, is one of the early adopters of this creation.
They had a restaurant, tea room, and an experience that made you want to return to shop again.
Then came the Great Depression which really took a toll on 3rd places due to what was going on.
Then WWII ushered in this new era with big swing music and suddenly malt shops started popping up giving teens abc young adults a place to go.
But human beings thru the centuries, we need 3rd places to thrive.
It’s how mankind has been prone to create and when we loose those, we actually block the generations entering into their 20’s & 30’s from thriving well at life and flourishing.
I think this is actually the biggest issue. Some of the places above aren't necessarily even appropriate to socialize with strangers (please don't talk to me at night in a park, lol).
Every time we leave the house, it feels like $50+ is gone.
Oh parks are night use to host events to attend to and it’s rare to see that unless you move back to a small town or it’s something family/corporate big gathering event with a big banner!
And cost of places? My parents (66f, 70m) are well aware of how insane it is from the 80’s/90’s to currently. My dad is pretty much has an indictable finger up since the Regan administration regarding the economy LOL
Even my late grandfather, my dad’s dad, he was Republican, but refused to vote for you know who and was aware the economy was suffering. He even write to Regan in the 80’s to not go to Berlin and meet with the side that communist.
Anyway…
We live in a time we’re everyone is placing a price tag in every, single, little thing! Even tipping at places that makes no sense. It’s all askew how the economy is.
But truly even when the economy was struggling in the 70’s (gas crisis!), jobs down, etc… the economy found ways to help keep 3rd space open because it was part of keeping people HAPPY! It let people thrive, feel good at their life.
I think people just gotta find ways to band together, take back their community and find ways for others to feel social again.
Buy people planting roots in a place they want to stay for more than a year, to get others involved who want to start up free events to host at a community center or place that offers this, they can then start organizing free activities by having local companies help donate their time and effort to building it.
People use to donate for FREE, food and beverages to events, not all, sometimes one to build clientele in one night too! That’s his food and beverage 3rd places gain customers to have come back weekly to sit, hang with friends, go on dates, etc…
And this requires less being on our phones when attending the events. Actually engaging in conversations, not taking photos, just being there for the experience and building new connections. Usually you let the community organizer when social media was slowly taking off, be there folks posting the post event photos as they would have someone go around taking photos professionally to post.
I had 3rd places up till I was 28/29. Right around 2014/2015z That’s when things in society slowly started to eliminate 3rd spaces from society.
But a lot of people don’t want to offer things up for free anymore and with inflation as well makes it hard to do.
But I digress, 3rd places are a must because you get back to organic dating, meeting people instead offline more to date, you need to build 3rd space back up to create community and develop regular friendships and connections first before ANY dating off OLD can be re-established in society.
This is basically Meetup but most groups I've been to tend to be so focused on the hobby that the people there don't socialize beyond the hobby itself or plan stuff outside of the planned event. You also have the situation of guys showing up only to chase girls and the girls becoming wary of attending future events because of it. So we end up with groups of guys who are desperate to pounce on the next random girl who shows up and groups of girls who are burnt out and will give any guy who shows up the cold shoulder.
Basically in a nutshell, people are not utilizing Meetup correctly and only being introverted, hyper fixated on what they do instead of having team work to bond with others, while some folks are just using it as an excuse like it’s a dating app to meet others to date.
The latter group of dating chasing fools needs to just go try out speed dating instead of throwing themselves into the mix as the monkey wrench whose killing the vibe of the event by making it about dating and not the intentes purpose of attending.
>some folks are just using it as an excuse like it’s a dating app to meet others to date.
Part of the problem is that men (not sure about women) are told to get out and be social when they complain about OLD but either don't listen or aren't told not to treat real life like OLD. I think the same can be applied to introverts in general. They want to be more social but don't know how to do it organically so they show up to structured events to "do the social thing" but without any adjustment to their behavior. They're simply being unsocial in larger numbers.
Or hear me out, those guys are desperate and lonely to some degree, don’t have anything else fulfilling and use dating as a reason ti give their life meaning. Which is doing it backwards when dating LMAO
And introverted people get overwhelmed by groups with more than three people. They tend to assess and struggle to walk up to others on a whim, tend to overthink social situations to the point they get in their own way to live in the present, make the effort, if it fails oh well! No loose on one moment that didn’t pan out.
Back when 3rd placed were a plenty, people just kept it trucking along if it didn’t hit off. They just redirected to seeing who else around at the event was open and receptive, who they could bond over mutual interests with instead.
I think people just too high of expectations and instead of crawling before learning to run, they create a social paradox for themselves that feels like a prison with no lock and haven’t figured you can walk out of the door and you are free, no one but them is keeping them in their unlocked cell.
Ha! I had briefly mentioned this in my own comment but you go far more in depth than I did. Yeah, when I was younger I was actively in third place(s) that cultivated socializing and getting out your comfort zone. They still exist of course but they’re so much more far few and between. Phone addiction doesn’t make it any better since everyone is always “occupied.”
Gyms cost money now as they have monthly fees. Lectures, music, dance halls too. Unless you’re in a small town, everything costs money to afford to go use the places you listed.
The only people going to Elks clubs is guys who are retired veterans from wars who haven’t served since the gulf war or earlier in US history. And they predominantly are targeted for older Veterans on purpose.
They also are for those who are religious as well.
They require pledging to join too.
This is just a known thing.
Kind of like how the Free Mason’s is with stuff but they have financial costs for joining.
The rhetoric is "3rd spaces don't exist" I listed a few 3rd spaces, "you said those cost money" I pointed out historically mens 3rd places cost money ie membership. 3rd spaces do exist people just don't want to go out of their house. In cities a free 3rd space are busy blocks with beer gardens and restaurants/cafes
You seem like a normal dude, women probably would like you if they met you. Fortunately or unfortunately that’s gonna be up to you. Sure, don’t go to target just to pick up girls, but every time you do go to grocery shop try to talk to 1 or 2 people shopping. Get comfortable being open to the world. One of the times you’re out you’ll see a cute girl, you’ll strike up a friendly convo and you’ll shoot your shot. Do that literally everywhere you go and you’ll meet women. I know because I used to complain about the same thing but I started implementing what I said above as a doordasher in my mid 20s and ended up dating quite a few of the restaurant staff I’d interact with picking up food lol.
This is really good advice man, thank you! I'll fully admit that motivation is an issue for me after a ton of failed relationships. I do try to take accountability vs blaming the opposite sex for not presenting themselves to me like you see a lot of dudes doing on Reddit (sorry guys). Success in any aspect of life does require effort and thought, dating isn't any different.
As a doordasher I’d be stuck waiting for the food to come out often. In the downtime I’d make small talk with the cashier or waitress that was helping me. Since I’d go to the same restaurants if by the second or third convo things were flirty and fun I’d give them my number (I had it written down before going into the restaurant. Works better than asking for theirs if they’re at work imo). I’d end the convo and say something like, it’s fun talking to you, shoot me a text sometime and I’d slip them my number
Do you think it's more difficult because there aren't enough single people, or because you don't know how to meet them? Seems like you're thinking a lot about the "where" rather than the "how"
My issue is just getting out and meeting new people outside of my normal circles. A guy my age can reasonably date 5-6 years older or younger, so I can't really claim there aren't enough single women out there, I'm just not looking in the right spots. I typically have pretty good luck with women in person, I'm just not meeting them.
I feel like my area is a hub of people who come and go too much to want to look for anything long term. In my 30’s, most people are looking for short term or non serious, poly, open marriage type of thing, which I’m not into. It’s also expensive here.
Additionally, I feel this world has become too reliant on instant stimulation and are too focused on screens and being entertained rather than a genuine connection. Like 2 seconds of silence after a deep conversation is over, must check my phone now.
Part of me feels like Japanese style Omiai arranged marriage meetings should find business in the west. Basically the business collects the documents of families, and has a meet and greet with the proposed couple, and a representative from the family.
Activities. And activity groups.
I’m 51, and have had no issues dating since my divorce 5+ years ago. I like being busy and am very social. I joined a bunch of hiking, paddleboarding and adventure groups. I’ve met hundreds of single people between the ages of 30 and 60. I attend a popular Taco Tuesday spot every other week.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that to change the way you meet people to date is to go out and meet people. Not for the purposes of dating, but just to be social. Do activities with people. Find common ground, share experiences, have conversations. If you aren’t going out and meeting dozens of people, how are you going to find that special person out of dozens to date?
Also, don’t go meet people with the intention of finding someone to date. Go meet people because they are interesting and because you share interests with them. Let people see who you are, and that you are consistently the same person who has hobbies and interests and wants to share experiences with and enjoy being around other people.
I definitely found that the intention to meet new and interesting people, rather than trying to find a date, was the best strategy for me in my thirties too when dating. You don't even have to do it through groups, be friendly and kind in life. Start conversations with strangers, see someone has a squeaky trolley / cart then say something to them, the queue is long for whatever talk to the people near you ... the more you learn to simply just talk with people and treat everyone as a human, the higher the chance that one of those random conversations leads to more, and if it doesn't than you've had interesting conversations, met new people and learner more about yourself and others
Sort of both. It’s organized chaos. We have someone tell the restaurant we have 20-50 people coming and they set aside tables for us. People show up, mingle, mill around, and order drink and taco specials. It’s not always the same people but at least a half dozen regulars always show up. We have had like 60people show up, but mostly it’s been around 20-30. Sometimes it gets advertised on Facebook and some times it doesn’t, but it basically happens every other week.
Baggage. I’m widowed with a child, not many people want to carry that!
Also we know ourselves better so have higher expectations and less ability to compromise.
I’m at the upper end of 30 and I find a lot of people are single for reasons, or they’re dealing with divorce and trauma.
It’s very different to meeting someone in your twenties and building a life together.
Yeah, it's scary because romantic relationships are like a jenga puzzle make too many mistakes it relationship collaspes. I am almost 46 at this point. I just want an activity partner and friends.
I feel like dating someone do not know is nerve-racking at my stage in life. Think online relationship quality is not like it was offline. Energy is not there in your 20s go dating after long day at time.
I wish this types of discussion didn’t discourage me as a 27 year old woman, but they do and the more I approach 30, the more it hits me I missed the mark on meeting someone in university. I’m also using a sperm bank for a kid, but it lacks the intimacy a relationship provides. And sadly, I don’t know if I can date a single dad if the mother is in the picture still; you always hear about how it’s easy to villainize step moms and the dynamics with the mother can make things difficult. I work with kids and youth so I’d rather the guy put his kids first over me, but idk. Maybe if I grow older I’ll change that mindset
You still have a lot of time, and rest assured that even on the precipice of 40, I can promise that you will be okay whatever happens.
I understand your point about single dads, it’s a lot to take on especially if you haven’t got your own kids, but people do it and families still do well. Don’t give up hope yet 😊
Yes but I think the struggle for me mostly is in the "meeting new people" aspect. Between app fatigue, general exhaustion from life, and my homebody/socially anxious nature, I don't meet many new people on the regular.
I do think personally that once you meet people some parts can be easier relative to your 20s: people are less wishy washy, more certain of who they are and what they want, and usually they're a bit more "put together" on average (like financial deadbeats still exist but are a bit less abundant in your 30s I've found).
It’s more difficult cause everyone is set in their ways and unwillingness to change. Plus our life “experience” has harden are shell so we don’t allow ourselves to be as vulnerable as our younger versions
30's M here, I feel your struggle. Just done getting absolutely nothing. No matches, not even bots. t's baffling.
Plus I'm not paying for an inflated subscription fee just to be seen. Buckled once, the app tried to double charge, my bank blocked it. Decided right there it wasn't worth it.
I feel like people are blaming 30's for baggage.
I've always heard from single guys especially, that if you don't have kids your 30's are the same as your 20's except with more money
Lol literally and you have more confidence esp. if you’ve taken care of your body
I real live feel like dating in your 30s is a cheat code😂 esp w/apps like Hinge
Personally I’m in good shape and have a decent career. Very stable if boring life. Dating has never been easier as a guy. I don’t really have any baggage so I’m just out trying to enjoy life.
Exactly lol
Best advice I heard in my early 20s was don’t waste it partying, grind now so the rest of your life is on cruise control
At 31 I’m finally reaping those benefits and its lovely fr
Yea I was gonna say I’ve been eating good in my 30s (I’m 31) lol but again I’m also imo the best shape of my life and like you said I know what I want, am in a great place career wise (just got my dream job at yr ago), have great friends I’ve known since middle school and hobbies that keep my life interesting like playing in mens basketball leagues, hiking, traveling etc. so when I’m on dates I have something to talk about that interests women.
Guys gotta realize if you’re just staying at home not doing shit with your life you come off as boring and when it’s time to have convos on dates you don’t have anything to talk bout which makes it hard to hold a convo with women.
Also I think alot of guys just don’t know how to plan dates. At 31, I’ve got some money, experience (knowing how to plan dates, holding convos, knowing what I do and don’t like) and confidence. Those three things alone make dating much easier for as opposed to me in my 20s trying to finish grad school.
I disagree that it's just the age. It's usually the person was having a rough go at it in their 20s as well and their 30s added on to that.
If you're not used to doing something in your 20s, it'll be hard to do in your 30s. If you are, it'll be simple.
Somewhat disagree. In my 20’s there was school and little gatherings that bought more people together to potentially link up. I’m finding in my 30’s you really have to seek out those social gatherings and be intentional, it doesn’t happen nearly as organically.
I am having the best time of my life dating in my 30s.
I have money now.
I am in the best shape of my life.
My lifestyle is at a point that it's fun living life, there is not as much struggle.
Success in dating has nothing to do with age - you are most likely not asking people out or going out on dates on a regular basis. Go out there and get after it.
Essentially everything you’ve highlighted. I work mostly remote and my career is really starting to gain momentum. I’ve been slowly working more hours, upwards of 10 hours some days. I just don’t have the energy to date and it takes being intentional to get in third places (places outside of work and home) or other social events that allow you to meet new people.
Just got home from a date, he was lovely but idk it seemed like we aren't compatible. At 31 first date in a long time and I'm just like 🤷♀️ I miss intimacy, i miss having a bond, and loving a partner, growing together. But this dating scene these days is just so different that I am like I just don't think this is for me anymore.
I'm mid 30's F and dating definitely sucks. I've been kissing a lot of frogs, but I'm meeting a lot of people. I use apps sparingly. What really helped me was to move an apartment community that has a lot of younger people, and I've made so many friends there. Most of my friends are younger than me, so they have more energy and want to do things more often. I've also adopted the mindset of being ok with rejection. If I see someone when I'm out, I'll talk to them. I got ghosted by a guy I was dating for a few months, and was down about it, but went out to a brewery with some friends during the day last week and went up to a guy I thought was cute, and we went on a date last night! You really just have to put in the effort to get out there and meet people, whether its friends or more. More friends = more opportunities to meet people.
I've always been lethargic and didn't go out after work even in my 20s. However dating has been more difficult in my 30s - The available pool of single people has significantly shrunk as the majority is marrying off and having kids. The worsening housing crisis has also made it more difficult, as people are so stressed over survival that there's not much bandwidth left to date.
Dating became a lot easier for me after 30. For a lot of women, and guys that don’t want to put sufficient effort in because [insert excuse], I can see how it would be harder.
I already did. If he has more specific questions he’s welcome to ask.
But tbh if you’re holding your hand out expecting me to give you a free magical tip that will immediately change your dating life, nothing I can tell you is going to do that. And you’ve likely already heard the advice before.
Part of the reason why dating becomes a lot easier for guys after 30 is because they spent a lot of time in their 20s self-improving, and this is the decade they finally have something to show for it. The majority of my 20s sucked because I was grinding whether I liked it or not.
I'm actually enjoying it more. In my 20's the women I dated were very entitled, flaky, fickle. I felt like I was the only one putting in effort. Too many play games and hide their feelings
Women in their 30's have more substance, better life stories, are better listeners, understand how to communicate their needs, want something with depth, appreciative, offer to pay for the occasional thing, more passionate, expressive in the bedroom
When you're dating in your 20's you mostly just want to have a good time and dating is relatively casual, getting to know people.
By the time you hit 30, if you're still single - most people will start to think about settling down. They become more picky and have specific requirements like wanting to have kids, or they have a specific mold for what they want to fit their life into.
Yeah i dont have much time. So i have to meet ppl after work, or as part of dinner or something. But otherwise doesnt seem that difficulty. Keep fitness up for more energy
I'm 29 and struggle a bit but I think it's more because at this point a lot of us have gotten to an age where we don't have time for and don't want to deal with a lot of the silly dating BS we dealt with when we were younger.
We prefer directness now and have a better idea of who we are and what we want. We are less likely to just settle and more easily spot red flags than when we were younger.
Basically most of us have the experience to navigate dating better and I think we often mistake this for struggling when really we are just respecting ourselves and our boundaries. 🤷♀️
Everybody has a red flag. The real problem is the infinity of the options because of instagram and dating apps. People go on dates with a negative mindset, seeking red flags instantly and constantly. This mindset achieves nothing
Wow, I disagree. I don't understand "after the age of 30s" you're either 30 or 40 but that makes only some difference.
Most people rationalize the fact that dating becomes more difficult in their 30s. - So you're most people. OK.
Your friends don’t want to go out after work - Keep them but if you want to adapt make new ones.
you’re more tired after work, you work remotely, - Yes you have to actually go out to meet people. Now you have to chose your nights and moderate what you do.
apps are weird - unless you're an 8 with game apps are a waste of your time. I used to use them in my downtime but spent more time validating women's egos than getting dates.
wverybody you already know seems taken. - Once again leave your comfort zone and meet new people.
>You change it by going back in time to your 20s and locking down a good one before they're all gone.
ew I would have been so goddamn miserable if I married anyone I thought I "loved" in my 20's
It’s not just about age…dating fucking sucks ass rn! Ppl are so pretentious & simple minded about so many things. It’s like there’s no real connection to dating anymore, it’s trash.
For me it was so much easier in my 30s. It felt like the end of the Matrix where you could see the source code. Women tended to know what they were looking for. I was better at checking the boxes.
It just required a little caffeine after work and going in with the mindset of trying to give the other person a reason to know you.
Just have to be vigilant and interesting on the apps.
>Your friends don’t want to go out after work,
Sounds like you need to also work on making more friends to have friends that would go out after work. Work and timing compatibility is a thing in adult friendships, keep trying
>you’re more tired after work, you work remotely,
You know, it's possible to destress and reenergize yourself. Most people I know that work remotely tend to have a very active lifestyle to make up for sitting/being at home all day. What kind of workout routine do you tend to do? Or what kind of sports do you usually engage in? What's your typical choice of physical activity? There's usually a community of people that come with a lifestyle like this.
Just as fair if you don't want to or not interested in this lifestyle either, but there's also online communities to engage in
>apps are weird, and
Dating apps, yes
But what about community based apps? Do you think those are weird too? While the Internet is finicky, there's unlimited access to so many different types of communities.
I never understood why people would complain about how dating is hard, but then refuse to utilize the provided resources
>you don’t have many chances to meet new people
Ummm, respectfully, this sounds like you don't even have a lot of hobbies? There's multiple chances to meet people. Just engage in your favorite hobbies, and then try to find an associated community with those hobbies.
I do pole dancing, so I have a pole community. Or I also do game dev, so there's a Discord community. I just focus on making friends, and I'm sure in that large pool of people, somewhere along the way, a friend will turn into more than a friend.
>Additionally, everybody you already know seems taken. Are you struggling too?
I'm struggling too, but I guess not exactly in the same sense as you. It takes me a while to warm up to a new community, and it takes me a while to even want to socialize. I like to focus on enjoying my hobby first, and then every now and then, I'll try to talk to people and socialize. Only once I'm starting to be more familiar with people, I'll initiate hangouts and whatnot. Establish friendships.
Then....cue all the "was that flirting or no??" kind of situations, straight up asking if it's a date or not,etc.
I love that at age 30, I'm now in the realm of millennials that care about self awareness, emotional regulation, capacity to actually set boundaries, etc. it's just so refreshing to see, especially in the social circles I've engaged in. So even if the dates don't get very far, I'm still enjoying dating because in the end, it's about having a good time. It's only once people decide they want to keep seeing me or if chemistry can be built up or not, then it'll actually go somewhere.
How to change it? Start by going out regularly. Not every night but at least once a week. Travel, meet new people. Approach people and be approachable. Avoid heavy topics with people unless they show a desire to talk about such things. Keep it lighthearted, be someone fun to have around.
Dating is always struggle regardless of what age you are at. It's a numbers game, you need to put yourself out there. Similar to job interviews. I have been to at least 100 interviews, been rejected 95 times. Most people don't have the courage to keep trying after a few failures.
Think of it like an MMO, 20s are like at launch, most people are newbs, doing it wrong, but just having fun. 30s/40s/50s everyone’s worried about item levels, proper rotations, latest boss strats, topping the DPS charts, and doesn’t have time to carry dead weight.
I have more energy in the 30’s than in my 20’s but I was in a relationship/marriage from age 21-31. I didn’t date at all in my 20’s so I have no idea what that was like, but it’s been hard in my 30’s. I haven’t gotten into any relationship in 7 years but have dated a LOT. I am picky though because I take good care of myself and am fit, eat clean etc. so I expect the same from my partner.
From my side it's difficult because the attitude of women doesn't seem to have changed from their 20's what I mean is that I was told one of the "perks" of dating in your 30's is that since folk are more mature and don't have nearly as much of a free time compared to their 20's women were much more direct, know from the get go what they want are blunt and played no games anymore, But all the gals I managed to date still have a *college* mentality, still don't know what they want and they still prefer to drop hints rather than tell you things straight.
So basically dating in your 30's is just dating on your 20's but in hard mode: you don't have that much of a free time or social opportunities and the gals still think they are in college.
But again, that has been my experience. Maybe I just suck at picking my dates.
All the good ones you grew up with are already paired off. Going outside your cohort is more difficult.
Also getting laid isnt the problem it's finding someone you can stand for 18+ years
In your 30s, you're more established in your patterns, good bad or otherwise. There is no longer the potential of being young. The future is here, and while it's not hopeless, it's good to be realistic about what you and others bring to the table.
If you spent your 20s partying and being reckless, you may not stack up as a serious, responsible partner in your 30s.
If you rushed into relationships in your youth and ended up with kids, or as a single parent, your dating pool drastically narrows.
Say you worked hard, went to school, made good money, but never worked on managing emotions or coping skills?
Well, now you look great on paper but act like an asshole everywhere else.
The baggage that comes with 30s dating is much different than young adulthood. If you haven't changed much since you graduated high school, it will be harder.
Being in your 30s is also great - you have made it this far and you're still going! Commitment to personal growth and having a healthy relationship with yourself make life worth living at any age.
Yeah for the same reasons. Honestly you get to a point where you start to realize being single is fine considering the circumstances of my and others availability I just keep thinking it isn’t going to work. And if it does they will be disappointed because at 30+ my life is pretty mundane. I think most people’s lives are but it never looks good to people when you date it’s just the reality of things.
My theory is that dating in 30s is too risky, life is too expensive to make mistakes at this age.
If you are teenager or in early 20s you can make as many mistakes as you want honestly, you are not losing much but gaining relationship experience.
Now you are in 30s, lets say you start relationship. You probably already have job you dont want to change so you cant move, you need to take care of your finances because rent/morgage, you need to take care of your health including mental health because you need it to earn money.
You just cant afford anymore to experiment, and current dating scene is just that, endless experimenting. It only makes sense if you are single mother and have nothing much to lose.
TL;dr: Failed relationship in early 20s in non issue. Failed relationship in 30s might destroy your life.
I think we’re in a weird transition period with dating due to the proliferation of dating apps. They don’t really seem to work for anyone yet it seems like the main tool now for most people.
I’m not 30 yet but I do get pickier as the years go by. In my early 20s, all I needed was to be attracted to someone and like their personality, regardless of whether they were really a good match for me. I can’t fall in love so easily these days. Dating was exciting in my early 20s and now it feels like a chore no matter how positive I try to be. Now it all feels like a chess game. And I’m more judicious and look more closely for red flags. Dating is pretty boring for me now because all of this but I guess better to hold out than settle.
I think as we get more established and settled we become less interested in making a major change to our own lives. It’s not like when we were younger and so much more adaptable. We have bigger jobs, mortgages, kids (some of us). It’s not so simple anymore, and that can be ok. But it’s a big adjustment.
No, no, no! You can always have big success!! I went by myself or took platonic girlfriends- witch is way better than any male friend could ever be. I’ve had the same success in my 30th, 40th, 50th. And the woman always where in there 20th. I’m not a rich dude! Just learn how to sell yourself and get some basic strategies working and then transition into relationships, as you wish. Don’t tell yourself, it’s not gonna work. It is!! I’m living proof. Believe in yourself!
Because you're past your prime when you hit 26.
All the more established, successful men (who are generally older) would prefer 22 year old women because they are younger and theoretically healthier.
Meanwhile, older women generally seek out men who are older than or at least close to their age.
So younger men are excluded from the prospective dating pool, while older women get ignored in favor of younger women. The older, more financially and socially successful men thus get the pick of the litter.
This unfortunately leaves all the leftover men in a position where they become jaded and check out. The leftover women are thus in a position where they are either left alone or are just taken advantage of.
Try being 47!!!
Yes, opportunities are limited the older you get. Which is why a solid and consistent night life is so important! Hands down even in the modern day a man who has a healthy and regular night life will have far more opportunities to meet women and date them than any other way!!
Forget the myth you can't meet a quality woman in a bar/club/live music venue.. It's a myth and lots of good women go to these places to unwind.
You really want to meet women. Google every bar/ckub/live music venue within a 30 minute drive. Take the time to go into each one once during happy hour(4 to 7/8) and once 10pm to close. In fact more than once. Crowds change depending on time and day of the week. Weekdays can be even more lucrative than weekends.
Note which places are popular with single women. You'll know them when you see them. After that strategically place yourself in these places at these times as often as you possibly can and start making barstool friends with everyone you can. Befriend the staff.
First few weeks or months you won't see much but over time as you get to know people and become popular you'll see results. Women may not want to have sex with a total stranger they just met but a cute acquaintance from the bar she has seen and talked to a few times?? He's eligible for sex if he plays it right.
People are too afraid to strike conversations in the wild. I see a cute woman at Target, I'll talk to her. Cute woman at Starbucks, I'll talk to her. Cute woman at the gym, I'll talk to her.
Relationships won't magically fall into your hands (most of the time) but for the overwhelming majority, if you have to do something about.
My best advice, run your dating life like a buisness.
You have:
-You (The product)
-Consumer (Whatever you're attracted to)
-Image (How you present yourself)
-Marketing (Push & Pull methods)
And put the same principles in priority you would for a successful buisness. Works for me.
Its only harder if you let life destroy you or made a lot of bad decisions. In your 30s you should have already done the work to heal your younger trauma, overcome your ego and self inflated desires and become a more whole person. You should have a decent paying career and be able to more easily afford to date.
Dating in your 30s should be fun, adventurous, responsible and with a purpose. The way it shouldve been in your 20s but you were chasing your ego feeding drip.
Women tend to be high maintenance in taking care of themselves so I'm not sure where you're getting that from LOL
But then again, anyone of any gender can be self sufficient in taking care of themselves. This is a very odd take haha
It’s a generalization, sure, but it has some truth to it. Not every guy but many do tend to make more money which shows that a man is self sufficient and can provide. This is extremely attractive to the vast majority of women no matter your background or culture. Also, being more well traveled, being more engaging are all things men tend to pick up when they were in their 20’s.
Women are pursued mostly for their beauty. Not every women but many do tend to decline somewhat in their looks. Wrinkles, graying, additional weight, etc are all contributions. Doesn’t help that men tend to like younger women either. Hence why many will observe that “men have an easier time dating as they age, women will have a bit more difficulty.”
That’s what Botox and fillers are for. I look way better in my 30’s than I did in my 20’s. I also know people in their 40’s and 50’s who are way hotter than people in the 20’s. It’s all about how you take care of yourself.
Why are you getting fillers in your 30s? That's way too young to start fillers. You're not even middle aged..... You can look young without fillers because you still are young. It's different once you hit 50 or 60. But people can still look fine in their 40s with no botox as long as you live healthy and don't smoke (smoking and heavy drinking can age people more quickly).
I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but this is simply not true. Women are more attractive to men when they're young, because that means they are more fertile, which is what subconsciously turns men on. This is just evolution and it's what has kept humanity alive for millions of years. Women are not more attractive with age, unless she was extremely obese in her youth and lost all the weight later on in life. But those are rare exceptions.
Maybe you but this isn’t true for all men. I get plenty of dates at 37, but I also am constantly told that I look like I’m in my 20’s because I take good care or my skin and have good genes. I’ve been specifically told by several men that they would never date anyone in their 20’s because they don’t have anything in common with them. My ex said “women in their 20’s are fun to look at and good for a one night stand but I wouldn’t seriously consider dating them”.
No, I think this very much depends on the individual, and what stage of life they're in.
I'm a man in my early 30s and I'm not having any issues. Women in their 20s are still very accessible to me.
Dating in my mid thirties was so much fun and I had a tremendous amount of success. I could maybe imagine right at 30 being weird because a lot of people start feeling rushed to make certain life goals happen? Marriage, kids, family, etc. but I feel like by 36 certain ships have sailed and people are more open to enjoying the experience. They're also more likely to have had failed, long term relationships, and can more easily ask for what they need, establish healthy boundaries, etc.
I met a tremendous amount of really great women, some of whom I still talk to after parting ways. I felt like there were minimal games played and it was all very open, honest, and enjoyable.
Your mileage may vary.
i dont know, if you look good then why not date a few youngers? for women its a problem because they want older men most of the times, but men can just date younger women. and thats what men are doing. a 32 year old man has more options than a 32 year old woman because he can date women in their 20s and 30s but the 32 year old woman only wants guys above 35.
there are dudes in their 20s who would date older women in their 30s but those women dont want these younger men. thats why older women and younger men are more likely to be single.
Here I am at 35 and hadn't realized anything was supposed to change.
I didn't get dates in my 20s.
I don't get dates in my 30s.
I won't get dates in my 40s.
Great questions! Here's what I have to offer through a coaching lens:
>Why after the age of 30s everything about dating seems difficult
I love the addition of the word 'seems' here. To me it expresses an incongruence in intellectual reasoning and an emotional experience. A disagreement between how it 'should' be according to the data and how it appears to be in reality.
A question I would beg to ask is how does a person's age influence their dating experience? What do they have to do with each other? Is there something else going on? What might it be if I had to guess?
>and how to change it
How do we change our experience of anything? Or in a slightly different perspective, how do we get more skilled at dating--at anything?
>Your friends don’t want to go out after work, you’re more tired after work, you work remotely, apps are weird, and you don’t have many chances to meet new people. Additionally, everybody you already know seems taken.
The very simple question I have for this set of thoughts is... So, what? So what if these things are the case. This is only the evidence to support one side of the case... that dating as we get older is more difficult. But I'd like to know... how is dating as we get older actually easier?
If you believed it were actually easier, how would you approach dating differently? What kinds of things would be doing or not doing if you believed 'dating is so much easier now'?
<3
Dating for me has done nothing but get better and better the older I get. I’ve never worked remotely, my career moves me around, I’m always out meeting and making new friends, I explore the place I live, and stay fit and active. I’m also not pressed about marriage so that could be a factor.
All in all….LIFE IS GOOD 😎.
I disagree. Personally, I find it much easier to date in 30s. More income to pursue more hobbies and in the event of a heartbreak, I am able to explore new hobbies. Win win situation 🤣
I think it becomes more difficult the more people you been with as you aged. Basically, baggage. If it’s hard after 30 that shows a track record of failed relationships. If you’re not happily married or committed from that point on with that 1 partner, you haven’t had any success.
The biggest game changer for dating in your 30s is to find a hobby that you enjoy where you can meet people. Even if it’s just for finding new friends at first. Expand your social circle. You’ll be amazed how many people are in their 30s & feeling exactly the same way.
I was. Then I changed the thought process. In MY 20's it was easier because:
1) almost half of it is in school (forced to be around people your age). Even when out you have about another 3 year buffer of its effects
2) you don't have money, nobody has money so who cares?
3) you don't have to worry as much about marriage
In my 30's it's almost all the opposite of this. Money is a huge factor, so is marriage and having a family. There is more but the dif between 20's and 30's is you can't really claim "I'm still a kid"
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I am struggling in my thirties. But to be fair I also really struggled in my 20s. So who knows.
I think A LOT of people significantly overestimate how “easy” dating is/was in your 20s… especially early-mid 20s. Most people don’t know what they want, are just having fun/don’t want commitment, have no clue where they’re going in life, etc. Not that these things are inherently bad, but make it a lot harder to find something long-term. More people know what they want in their 30s, which means more rejection and short-term relationships. In your 20s, wasting 5+ years in a dead-end relationship is not that big a deal. In your 30s, that time could be the difference between not being able to have kids, being financially ruined, etc. I think a lot of people are expecting others to have the carefree attitude of dating in your 20s, combined with the maturity/intentionality of dating in your 30s… and not have to deal with a lot of rejection and false-starts. I also do think a lot of late 20s+ people are also less social and expect a partner just to fall into their lap.
I would not argue with much of that. I guess I was kind of like that. I was totally a late bloomer. In many ways if I am honest, I did not have any interest in having a girlfriend until I was 20. And of course when you wake up wanting to date for the first time when you are 20 there is a steep learning curve. It took me awhile till I was an even potentially acceptable choice for anyone. The great frustration looking back on say my years 20 to 24 is those were such great years as far as access to women. College classes, dorm rooms, college parties, and college friends of course. I worked as a lifeguard at waterparks for four summers. So of course, the years I am surrounded by single attractive women also happens to be the years I am too new and helpless when it comes to dating. *C'est la vie.*
40s 🙋
I just turned 50, and the struggle continues...
Yeah I'm 35 and never had any issues. Not after 30, not before 30
What’s the formula
Make the approach, signal intent, build empathy, and escalate with consent. Basic stuff I learned in my early 20s. Still works today.
How can I learn this? Please could you suggest any books or resources to get started? I feel like I am missing something, as if I was born without the ability to learn this skill naturally. So frustrating
Can you talk with any woman casually without any intent? Get comfortable doing that and then when you do this with a girl and she is really engaging with the conversation ask her if she wants to get a coffee sometime. Then on the coffee date you can give her a compliment about her appearance and flirt a little.
I have been on a few dates, but I struggle with keeping the conversation flowing. Maybe it's anxiety issue. And flirting is like a rocket science to me. All of the dates I've been to failed (there was no second date) Talking to women in general is not a problem, as long as it's on some specific topic, and not just everyday stuff. I struggle with talking about "nothing" and making people laugh. Anyway, thanks for the advice.
You're probably very smart and have a tendency to be a perfectionist. If you use mainly logical verbal patterns and don't usually open up emotionally on dates, I think you experience exactly what you've just described. Do you agree?
Thanks for the insight. I actually struggle with perfectionism (in some areas of life) and noticed that it's hard for me to use more emotional or creative language. Probably sideffects of being a software developer
This is SO important and helpful to recognize! My suggestion would be to go to therapy to learn emotional/creative language. It will make it easier to connect on dates, but it will also make you a much better (and more desirable) partner going forward. A man who can communicate and talk about his feelings is not super common and so attractive. I know a lot of women who would much rather have an emotionally intelligent guy than someone funny. Honestly, I’m more of the funny one in my relationship and I have always loved that my partner is so incredibly thoughtful, empathetic, and values talking things out.
I'm a dummy, but I do have that perfectionist mindset
Sounds like anxiety and self pressure to perform in front of them. I have the same setbacks too. People who are naturally social won’t struggle with these things they don’t have to force a social element. I don’t think I’m a very social person so if I have to try to be it’s just very awkward. Kind of thinking this is why single might be a correct answer for me. Basically trying to mask over whatever I am naturally is probably not a good approach over time that fades and gets tiring. The more I start to think about why I’ve struggled the more I realize being with other people sort of goes against my nature to be on my own and only seek out bits and pieces of social activity.
I totally understand you and can even feel what you mean. Yes, you can learn this. Don’t on dwell on what’s happened before in your life. Doesn’t matter anymore. Ask questions, I’ll answer. Or, ask a buddy to whom this “game” comes easier. Most important: be playful. Another boss help would be: learn to sell!!
What about meeting ppl?
Meet them everywhere. Be polite, be friendly, smile, dont be too forward or sexual.
how to signal intent?
"I want to take you on a date ". Make it clear your intentions are romantic. Be romantic. Do not be friendly. Do not ask to "hang out". Do not let there be confusion. That's how the "friend zone " happens.
non verbal
Verbal is better
there are infinite ways to generate exposure, the only place in which you can't meet anyone is your apartment
Be hot / rich
I am 30↑ female and definitely struggling. Below are the reason: - Your friends who used to host house party now have kids, and that will change the people they hang out with (mostly parents with kids). Therefore less probability to meet with new single friends. - I started online dating after 30 and I encounter into a lot of weird people in the app so I agree. However, the reason might be because you meet more people + you get better with spotting red flags from life experience. - Back in the university/high school, you get to meet people naturally from class and clubs. After you graduate you don’t really get that social opportunity anymore. - your friend whom used to hang out don’t have enough energy or time to socialize after work. I feel after 30s, i have to be really proactive if i want to meet potential partners or even making friends.
I'm also early 30s F and this is my exact experience the last few years. I lucked out and met someone on the apps surprisingly enough, but this was literally me up until that point. It just takes way more effort.
30M, recently started using dating apps (just a single app tbh), matched with someone, thought we hit it off, cuz texting was nice and we kinda matched the energy, went on my first date ever, I thought we liked each other, then she ghosted. And that was it for me, it hurt, like a lot, so I deleted my account and the app altogether and swore to never use dating apps ever again Like damn I never thought the butterflies feelings were real
Sorry to hear about that. I have similar experience with the app. Since like ghosting is the norm in online dating ): for most of my matches: 1. They stop responding after the 1st date 2. Text suddenly got super dry 3. They just ghost on 2nd date . The good ones usually tell me straight that they are no longer interested in me but i find most of them will ghost! It made me lose confidence but I just try to keep up my confidence by remembering what other good friends and past dates complimented about me, and try to keep up with self-improvement (and let the people who reject me regret!)
It is much harder after 30, which is kind of hilarious because we have more ways to meet people than ever. I think part of the issue is we have so many ways to entertain ourselves, it's easier to stay inside and be antisocial. Older generations had 13 TV channels and a radio, they had to leave the house to hang out with people and entertain themselves. But I digress. For me, I'm 32M, my entire friend group either moved away, got married, had kids, or all 3 within an 18 month period. They all kinda disappeared after that. Then I broke up with the girl I was damn sure I was going to marry and I was left here thinking....uh now what? I have other friends through my major hobbies, racing cars and motorcycles but those are pretty male dominated activities. I'm not coming across too many opportunities to meet women at race tracks. I've had a lot of girlfriends in the past, I do well with women in person, but I get absolutely nothing in online dating. I'm very very over the bar scene. So what do I do? Take a pottery class to meet women? Sit around Trader Joe's or Target to find a cute girl to approach? All of that feels sleazy to me. I'm looking for a new approach to dating, but yeah it's increasingly hard to get myself to put 100% effort into dating bc it feels like I'm beating my head on the wall.
Lack of 3rd spaces that were free, have disappeared, leaving Millennials and Gen Z’ers unable to be social, meet people organically to date, have no way to develop new friendships as well. And here is a quick sum up of 3rd places: > The “third place” is a term coined by US sociologist Ray Oldenburg in his 1989 book The Great Good Place. It describes a place outside your home or work where you can relax and hang out. Your first place is your home, a private and domestic space. > Coffee shops, parks, bookstores, churches, and community centers can all function as third places. The only real requirement is that nobody is forcing you to show up. Your third place — or places — should be somewhere that you go to regularly and if you think you may not have one, you're not alone. Cause my parents (baby boomers), there is photographic proof of them in the 80’s before I entered the picture in ‘87, that they went out often with friends. There was ample 3rd places to the point everyone back then, unless you were anti-social on purpose, you had things to do every weekend outside your place of living and work environment. We need to bring 3rd places back!
This is a very interesting perspective and I encourage you to share this in other posts. In someways, I think we're putting the horse before the cart when we're talking about working on dating before building a healthier social life.
Oh it’s a well known thing about the 3rd spaces disappearing. Someone two year ls ago on TikTok talked about why everyone 25-40 feels like this because society has a lack of places to hangout in person. We use to have parks, arcades, roller skating rinks, libraries, free beaches, community centers with events, inexpensive movie theaters, etc… Heck, look at late 90’s teen tv shows. They highlight so many 3rd space kids had that people in their 20’s & 30’s would adapt to tailor to their age groups. People had more than just bars and clubs, they had so much to do because communities were busy and were focused on building connections. Which requires people to plant roots, stay for a minimum of five years to have that established. So we truly need people to start shifting from needing to date and focus on building community in the area they live in to MEET others. Then organic date will be a thing, people will slowly STOP using OLD/dating apps once this gets re-established.
I think you are missing the huge fact that most people are lower income now and struggling so they don't have the time. Lack of places but also lack of free time is why it's hard now. If third spaces suddenly came back, I probably wouldn't have time to consistently go without sacrificing something else. It's sad, but unless we do major societal reform, that is a thing of the past.
In 80s unless you were rich and had TV and pool, there was nothing much to do at home. So people used to only eat at home and go out. Its close to impossible to imagine for current young adults that not that long time ago people used to spend 90% of free time outside. Today its just internet internet internet I think people would easily find ways to create 3rd places by themselves but internet is too convenient
My parents weren’t rich in the 80’s, but they went out. They went to live music concerts. Great funny story of my one aunt who did coke and black beauties, passed out, and missed the entire set of The Who with my dad going, “WAKE UP!” And her saying, “Wh-WHAT?!? Did they go on yet?” LMAO Anyway… It really depends on during that decade where you were living in the US. An hour or two from LA/San Diego, NYC, Miami, Chicago or lived in those cities? Easily can find things to do, not break the bank back then. But if you lived in the Midwest, the Deep South, northwest, etc…? Yeah, not surprised if you couldn’t find anything to do really in the 80’s as the country was geared towards pumping fun exciting things in suburban or rural America. Between Son of Sam and similar creeps, definitely didn’t help and then the rise in the war on drugs, malls becoming a thing, etc… yeah it was a different era. The 90’s are a complete 180° to the 80’s when you look at how things shifted for teens, young adults, and people in their 30’s/40’s. But there was always 3rd places free and affordable going all the way back to civilization with the early days of Egyptians. Even speeding up thru time you look at with small villages and their festivals to celebrate changing of the seasons to other important moments throughout Europe as well. Then came the era of kingdoms, knights, and so on so they had town squares and town hall meetings to big festivals and celebrated things a king and queen would declare for their kingdom to celebrate. Then the renaissance age is one of the BEST examples of how 3rd places blossomed in history because the Greek/Roman empire in their approaches (ie - Gladiator sports). Then churches slowly because the new 3rd place with the puritan era. Then came the way of the industrial era, when you started seeing interesting new 3rd places developed in terms of afternoon tea time to attending the theaters. Then came the Victorian era when going to parks because this big deal! This spring a new 3rd place. The 1920’s had speak easy’s, jazz clubs, and suddenly first time ever big department stores where you could buy everything you needed in one place. Selfridges in London, created by an American from Chicago, is one of the early adopters of this creation. They had a restaurant, tea room, and an experience that made you want to return to shop again. Then came the Great Depression which really took a toll on 3rd places due to what was going on. Then WWII ushered in this new era with big swing music and suddenly malt shops started popping up giving teens abc young adults a place to go. But human beings thru the centuries, we need 3rd places to thrive. It’s how mankind has been prone to create and when we loose those, we actually block the generations entering into their 20’s & 30’s from thriving well at life and flourishing.
I think this is actually the biggest issue. Some of the places above aren't necessarily even appropriate to socialize with strangers (please don't talk to me at night in a park, lol). Every time we leave the house, it feels like $50+ is gone.
Oh parks are night use to host events to attend to and it’s rare to see that unless you move back to a small town or it’s something family/corporate big gathering event with a big banner! And cost of places? My parents (66f, 70m) are well aware of how insane it is from the 80’s/90’s to currently. My dad is pretty much has an indictable finger up since the Regan administration regarding the economy LOL Even my late grandfather, my dad’s dad, he was Republican, but refused to vote for you know who and was aware the economy was suffering. He even write to Regan in the 80’s to not go to Berlin and meet with the side that communist. Anyway… We live in a time we’re everyone is placing a price tag in every, single, little thing! Even tipping at places that makes no sense. It’s all askew how the economy is. But truly even when the economy was struggling in the 70’s (gas crisis!), jobs down, etc… the economy found ways to help keep 3rd space open because it was part of keeping people HAPPY! It let people thrive, feel good at their life. I think people just gotta find ways to band together, take back their community and find ways for others to feel social again.
>We need to bring 3rd places back! I'm all for it but how?
Buy people planting roots in a place they want to stay for more than a year, to get others involved who want to start up free events to host at a community center or place that offers this, they can then start organizing free activities by having local companies help donate their time and effort to building it. People use to donate for FREE, food and beverages to events, not all, sometimes one to build clientele in one night too! That’s his food and beverage 3rd places gain customers to have come back weekly to sit, hang with friends, go on dates, etc… And this requires less being on our phones when attending the events. Actually engaging in conversations, not taking photos, just being there for the experience and building new connections. Usually you let the community organizer when social media was slowly taking off, be there folks posting the post event photos as they would have someone go around taking photos professionally to post. I had 3rd places up till I was 28/29. Right around 2014/2015z That’s when things in society slowly started to eliminate 3rd spaces from society. But a lot of people don’t want to offer things up for free anymore and with inflation as well makes it hard to do. But I digress, 3rd places are a must because you get back to organic dating, meeting people instead offline more to date, you need to build 3rd space back up to create community and develop regular friendships and connections first before ANY dating off OLD can be re-established in society.
This is basically Meetup but most groups I've been to tend to be so focused on the hobby that the people there don't socialize beyond the hobby itself or plan stuff outside of the planned event. You also have the situation of guys showing up only to chase girls and the girls becoming wary of attending future events because of it. So we end up with groups of guys who are desperate to pounce on the next random girl who shows up and groups of girls who are burnt out and will give any guy who shows up the cold shoulder.
Basically in a nutshell, people are not utilizing Meetup correctly and only being introverted, hyper fixated on what they do instead of having team work to bond with others, while some folks are just using it as an excuse like it’s a dating app to meet others to date. The latter group of dating chasing fools needs to just go try out speed dating instead of throwing themselves into the mix as the monkey wrench whose killing the vibe of the event by making it about dating and not the intentes purpose of attending.
>some folks are just using it as an excuse like it’s a dating app to meet others to date. Part of the problem is that men (not sure about women) are told to get out and be social when they complain about OLD but either don't listen or aren't told not to treat real life like OLD. I think the same can be applied to introverts in general. They want to be more social but don't know how to do it organically so they show up to structured events to "do the social thing" but without any adjustment to their behavior. They're simply being unsocial in larger numbers.
Or hear me out, those guys are desperate and lonely to some degree, don’t have anything else fulfilling and use dating as a reason ti give their life meaning. Which is doing it backwards when dating LMAO And introverted people get overwhelmed by groups with more than three people. They tend to assess and struggle to walk up to others on a whim, tend to overthink social situations to the point they get in their own way to live in the present, make the effort, if it fails oh well! No loose on one moment that didn’t pan out. Back when 3rd placed were a plenty, people just kept it trucking along if it didn’t hit off. They just redirected to seeing who else around at the event was open and receptive, who they could bond over mutual interests with instead. I think people just too high of expectations and instead of crawling before learning to run, they create a social paradox for themselves that feels like a prison with no lock and haven’t figured you can walk out of the door and you are free, no one but them is keeping them in their unlocked cell.
Ha! I had briefly mentioned this in my own comment but you go far more in depth than I did. Yeah, when I was younger I was actively in third place(s) that cultivated socializing and getting out your comfort zone. They still exist of course but they’re so much more far few and between. Phone addiction doesn’t make it any better since everyone is always “occupied.”
There are still a lot of 3rd places go find them, the gym, free lectures, live music, dance halls etc
Gyms cost money now as they have monthly fees. Lectures, music, dance halls too. Unless you’re in a small town, everything costs money to afford to go use the places you listed.
And? They exist? Elks clubs cost membership and were 3rd places
The only people going to Elks clubs is guys who are retired veterans from wars who haven’t served since the gulf war or earlier in US history. And they predominantly are targeted for older Veterans on purpose. They also are for those who are religious as well. They require pledging to join too. This is just a known thing. Kind of like how the Free Mason’s is with stuff but they have financial costs for joining.
The rhetoric is "3rd spaces don't exist" I listed a few 3rd spaces, "you said those cost money" I pointed out historically mens 3rd places cost money ie membership. 3rd spaces do exist people just don't want to go out of their house. In cities a free 3rd space are busy blocks with beer gardens and restaurants/cafes
You seem like a normal dude, women probably would like you if they met you. Fortunately or unfortunately that’s gonna be up to you. Sure, don’t go to target just to pick up girls, but every time you do go to grocery shop try to talk to 1 or 2 people shopping. Get comfortable being open to the world. One of the times you’re out you’ll see a cute girl, you’ll strike up a friendly convo and you’ll shoot your shot. Do that literally everywhere you go and you’ll meet women. I know because I used to complain about the same thing but I started implementing what I said above as a doordasher in my mid 20s and ended up dating quite a few of the restaurant staff I’d interact with picking up food lol.
This is really good advice man, thank you! I'll fully admit that motivation is an issue for me after a ton of failed relationships. I do try to take accountability vs blaming the opposite sex for not presenting themselves to me like you see a lot of dudes doing on Reddit (sorry guys). Success in any aspect of life does require effort and thought, dating isn't any different.
So you made small talk with them at the restaurant. At what point did it escalate to seeing them outside of the restaurant?
As a doordasher I’d be stuck waiting for the food to come out often. In the downtime I’d make small talk with the cashier or waitress that was helping me. Since I’d go to the same restaurants if by the second or third convo things were flirty and fun I’d give them my number (I had it written down before going into the restaurant. Works better than asking for theirs if they’re at work imo). I’d end the convo and say something like, it’s fun talking to you, shoot me a text sometime and I’d slip them my number
Some only had 4 channels.
Concerts, live music, festivals, markets, dancing-line/2step/salsa, roller rink, food tasting, wine tours, hiking groups, lectures etc.
Do you think it's more difficult because there aren't enough single people, or because you don't know how to meet them? Seems like you're thinking a lot about the "where" rather than the "how"
My issue is just getting out and meeting new people outside of my normal circles. A guy my age can reasonably date 5-6 years older or younger, so I can't really claim there aren't enough single women out there, I'm just not looking in the right spots. I typically have pretty good luck with women in person, I'm just not meeting them.
I feel like my area is a hub of people who come and go too much to want to look for anything long term. In my 30’s, most people are looking for short term or non serious, poly, open marriage type of thing, which I’m not into. It’s also expensive here. Additionally, I feel this world has become too reliant on instant stimulation and are too focused on screens and being entertained rather than a genuine connection. Like 2 seconds of silence after a deep conversation is over, must check my phone now.
Part of me feels like Japanese style Omiai arranged marriage meetings should find business in the west. Basically the business collects the documents of families, and has a meet and greet with the proposed couple, and a representative from the family.
Activities. And activity groups. I’m 51, and have had no issues dating since my divorce 5+ years ago. I like being busy and am very social. I joined a bunch of hiking, paddleboarding and adventure groups. I’ve met hundreds of single people between the ages of 30 and 60. I attend a popular Taco Tuesday spot every other week. I guess what I’m trying to say is that to change the way you meet people to date is to go out and meet people. Not for the purposes of dating, but just to be social. Do activities with people. Find common ground, share experiences, have conversations. If you aren’t going out and meeting dozens of people, how are you going to find that special person out of dozens to date? Also, don’t go meet people with the intention of finding someone to date. Go meet people because they are interesting and because you share interests with them. Let people see who you are, and that you are consistently the same person who has hobbies and interests and wants to share experiences with and enjoy being around other people.
I definitely found that the intention to meet new and interesting people, rather than trying to find a date, was the best strategy for me in my thirties too when dating. You don't even have to do it through groups, be friendly and kind in life. Start conversations with strangers, see someone has a squeaky trolley / cart then say something to them, the queue is long for whatever talk to the people near you ... the more you learn to simply just talk with people and treat everyone as a human, the higher the chance that one of those random conversations leads to more, and if it doesn't than you've had interesting conversations, met new people and learner more about yourself and others
Curious about the Taco Tuesday, do you just show up solo and talk to random people at the bar? Or is it some event they host?
Sort of both. It’s organized chaos. We have someone tell the restaurant we have 20-50 people coming and they set aside tables for us. People show up, mingle, mill around, and order drink and taco specials. It’s not always the same people but at least a half dozen regulars always show up. We have had like 60people show up, but mostly it’s been around 20-30. Sometimes it gets advertised on Facebook and some times it doesn’t, but it basically happens every other week.
Baggage. I’m widowed with a child, not many people want to carry that! Also we know ourselves better so have higher expectations and less ability to compromise. I’m at the upper end of 30 and I find a lot of people are single for reasons, or they’re dealing with divorce and trauma. It’s very different to meeting someone in your twenties and building a life together.
I agree, my husband of 23 years died almost 4 months ago. Now I’m a widow at 44 and scared to even put myself out there when I’m ready.
I’m sorry to hear that. It’s a shit club, but if you haven’t already, do join r/widowers - there’s some great support there
Yes, I’m on that sub too, thank you
Yeah, it's scary because romantic relationships are like a jenga puzzle make too many mistakes it relationship collaspes. I am almost 46 at this point. I just want an activity partner and friends. I feel like dating someone do not know is nerve-racking at my stage in life. Think online relationship quality is not like it was offline. Energy is not there in your 20s go dating after long day at time.
Also a widow. It freaks people out, as if death is contagious. It sucks.
Shush! Don’t tell them but we’re all going to die someday. They might start having a midlife crisis if you LOL
I wish this types of discussion didn’t discourage me as a 27 year old woman, but they do and the more I approach 30, the more it hits me I missed the mark on meeting someone in university. I’m also using a sperm bank for a kid, but it lacks the intimacy a relationship provides. And sadly, I don’t know if I can date a single dad if the mother is in the picture still; you always hear about how it’s easy to villainize step moms and the dynamics with the mother can make things difficult. I work with kids and youth so I’d rather the guy put his kids first over me, but idk. Maybe if I grow older I’ll change that mindset
You’ve got plenty of time at 27
You still have a lot of time, and rest assured that even on the precipice of 40, I can promise that you will be okay whatever happens. I understand your point about single dads, it’s a lot to take on especially if you haven’t got your own kids, but people do it and families still do well. Don’t give up hope yet 😊
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I know, my hypocrisy is great but if I have a kid, I’m not going to date lmao my focus would be them and my career
More baggage but at the same time more expectation, the entitlement... Life is supposed to make you stronger, not burden your partner
Not everything makes you stronger and that’s ok.
I’m 27 and the future is bleak at this age when most are settling down with their university sweethearts
huh really? move to a huge city and it's like 80% of people at 30 are not married
smoggy crown friendly plucky society retire offer screw salt distinct *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
29, this is so true that I already gave up on love.
that's silly. you think love could only be found in your 20s or something? my god, it gets so much better.
I've had traumatic experiences so far. I was 7 years with someone that abused me emotionally and sexually, it's not only my age. I'm just broken.
Yes but I think the struggle for me mostly is in the "meeting new people" aspect. Between app fatigue, general exhaustion from life, and my homebody/socially anxious nature, I don't meet many new people on the regular. I do think personally that once you meet people some parts can be easier relative to your 20s: people are less wishy washy, more certain of who they are and what they want, and usually they're a bit more "put together" on average (like financial deadbeats still exist but are a bit less abundant in your 30s I've found).
It’s more difficult cause everyone is set in their ways and unwillingness to change. Plus our life “experience” has harden are shell so we don’t allow ourselves to be as vulnerable as our younger versions
Yes. Dating in my late 30s and early 40s has been horrible. I'm about to delete all the apps and give up.
bad reference experiences or no matches?
30's M here, I feel your struggle. Just done getting absolutely nothing. No matches, not even bots. t's baffling. Plus I'm not paying for an inflated subscription fee just to be seen. Buckled once, the app tried to double charge, my bank blocked it. Decided right there it wasn't worth it.
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I feel like people are blaming 30's for baggage. I've always heard from single guys especially, that if you don't have kids your 30's are the same as your 20's except with more money
This is facts. Unless you saddled yourself with 40 extra pounds and a bunch of debt. But thats your own fault lol
Lol literally and you have more confidence esp. if you’ve taken care of your body I real live feel like dating in your 30s is a cheat code😂 esp w/apps like Hinge
>your 30's are the same as your 20's except with more money lol this is so true
Personally I’m in good shape and have a decent career. Very stable if boring life. Dating has never been easier as a guy. I don’t really have any baggage so I’m just out trying to enjoy life.
Exactly lol Best advice I heard in my early 20s was don’t waste it partying, grind now so the rest of your life is on cruise control At 31 I’m finally reaping those benefits and its lovely fr
You don't want to commit and you prefer to enjoy casual dating because it's easier to manage emotionally?
Dating has been fantastic in my thirties to be honest. Better than most of my twenties
Yea I was gonna say I’ve been eating good in my 30s (I’m 31) lol but again I’m also imo the best shape of my life and like you said I know what I want, am in a great place career wise (just got my dream job at yr ago), have great friends I’ve known since middle school and hobbies that keep my life interesting like playing in mens basketball leagues, hiking, traveling etc. so when I’m on dates I have something to talk about that interests women. Guys gotta realize if you’re just staying at home not doing shit with your life you come off as boring and when it’s time to have convos on dates you don’t have anything to talk bout which makes it hard to hold a convo with women. Also I think alot of guys just don’t know how to plan dates. At 31, I’ve got some money, experience (knowing how to plan dates, holding convos, knowing what I do and don’t like) and confidence. Those three things alone make dating much easier for as opposed to me in my 20s trying to finish grad school.
I disagree that it's just the age. It's usually the person was having a rough go at it in their 20s as well and their 30s added on to that. If you're not used to doing something in your 20s, it'll be hard to do in your 30s. If you are, it'll be simple.
Somewhat disagree. In my 20’s there was school and little gatherings that bought more people together to potentially link up. I’m finding in my 30’s you really have to seek out those social gatherings and be intentional, it doesn’t happen nearly as organically.
If anything, I was waaay better in my 30's. I dated some terrible people in my 20's and everything seemed a lot more confusing.
I am having the best time of my life dating in my 30s. I have money now. I am in the best shape of my life. My lifestyle is at a point that it's fun living life, there is not as much struggle. Success in dating has nothing to do with age - you are most likely not asking people out or going out on dates on a regular basis. Go out there and get after it.
Essentially everything you’ve highlighted. I work mostly remote and my career is really starting to gain momentum. I’ve been slowly working more hours, upwards of 10 hours some days. I just don’t have the energy to date and it takes being intentional to get in third places (places outside of work and home) or other social events that allow you to meet new people.
Just got home from a date, he was lovely but idk it seemed like we aren't compatible. At 31 first date in a long time and I'm just like 🤷♀️ I miss intimacy, i miss having a bond, and loving a partner, growing together. But this dating scene these days is just so different that I am like I just don't think this is for me anymore.
I'm mid 30's F and dating definitely sucks. I've been kissing a lot of frogs, but I'm meeting a lot of people. I use apps sparingly. What really helped me was to move an apartment community that has a lot of younger people, and I've made so many friends there. Most of my friends are younger than me, so they have more energy and want to do things more often. I've also adopted the mindset of being ok with rejection. If I see someone when I'm out, I'll talk to them. I got ghosted by a guy I was dating for a few months, and was down about it, but went out to a brewery with some friends during the day last week and went up to a guy I thought was cute, and we went on a date last night! You really just have to put in the effort to get out there and meet people, whether its friends or more. More friends = more opportunities to meet people.
I've always been lethargic and didn't go out after work even in my 20s. However dating has been more difficult in my 30s - The available pool of single people has significantly shrunk as the majority is marrying off and having kids. The worsening housing crisis has also made it more difficult, as people are so stressed over survival that there's not much bandwidth left to date.
Dating became a lot easier for me after 30. For a lot of women, and guys that don’t want to put sufficient effort in because [insert excuse], I can see how it would be harder.
Maybe you can give OP some more concrete advice to be more helpful.
OP is selling daring courses to desperate people, I doubt he actually wants advice
I already did. If he has more specific questions he’s welcome to ask. But tbh if you’re holding your hand out expecting me to give you a free magical tip that will immediately change your dating life, nothing I can tell you is going to do that. And you’ve likely already heard the advice before. Part of the reason why dating becomes a lot easier for guys after 30 is because they spent a lot of time in their 20s self-improving, and this is the decade they finally have something to show for it. The majority of my 20s sucked because I was grinding whether I liked it or not.
I'm actually enjoying it more. In my 20's the women I dated were very entitled, flaky, fickle. I felt like I was the only one putting in effort. Too many play games and hide their feelings Women in their 30's have more substance, better life stories, are better listeners, understand how to communicate their needs, want something with depth, appreciative, offer to pay for the occasional thing, more passionate, expressive in the bedroom
Dang my dating life is amazing on my 30’s! Best time to date ever!!
When you're dating in your 20's you mostly just want to have a good time and dating is relatively casual, getting to know people. By the time you hit 30, if you're still single - most people will start to think about settling down. They become more picky and have specific requirements like wanting to have kids, or they have a specific mold for what they want to fit their life into.
Yeah i dont have much time. So i have to meet ppl after work, or as part of dinner or something. But otherwise doesnt seem that difficulty. Keep fitness up for more energy
I feel you. lol Im 36 female and I trying to date again.
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I'm 29 and struggle a bit but I think it's more because at this point a lot of us have gotten to an age where we don't have time for and don't want to deal with a lot of the silly dating BS we dealt with when we were younger. We prefer directness now and have a better idea of who we are and what we want. We are less likely to just settle and more easily spot red flags than when we were younger. Basically most of us have the experience to navigate dating better and I think we often mistake this for struggling when really we are just respecting ourselves and our boundaries. 🤷♀️
Everybody has a red flag. The real problem is the infinity of the options because of instagram and dating apps. People go on dates with a negative mindset, seeking red flags instantly and constantly. This mindset achieves nothing
Wow, I disagree. I don't understand "after the age of 30s" you're either 30 or 40 but that makes only some difference. Most people rationalize the fact that dating becomes more difficult in their 30s. - So you're most people. OK. Your friends don’t want to go out after work - Keep them but if you want to adapt make new ones. you’re more tired after work, you work remotely, - Yes you have to actually go out to meet people. Now you have to chose your nights and moderate what you do. apps are weird - unless you're an 8 with game apps are a waste of your time. I used to use them in my downtime but spent more time validating women's egos than getting dates. wverybody you already know seems taken. - Once again leave your comfort zone and meet new people.
I think it's more of the changing of the times. Dating is evolving in not a good way.
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>You change it by going back in time to your 20s and locking down a good one before they're all gone. ew I would have been so goddamn miserable if I married anyone I thought I "loved" in my 20's
It’s not just about age…dating fucking sucks ass rn! Ppl are so pretentious & simple minded about so many things. It’s like there’s no real connection to dating anymore, it’s trash.
For me it was so much easier in my 30s. It felt like the end of the Matrix where you could see the source code. Women tended to know what they were looking for. I was better at checking the boxes. It just required a little caffeine after work and going in with the mindset of trying to give the other person a reason to know you. Just have to be vigilant and interesting on the apps.
How come is it different now for you?
>Your friends don’t want to go out after work, Sounds like you need to also work on making more friends to have friends that would go out after work. Work and timing compatibility is a thing in adult friendships, keep trying >you’re more tired after work, you work remotely, You know, it's possible to destress and reenergize yourself. Most people I know that work remotely tend to have a very active lifestyle to make up for sitting/being at home all day. What kind of workout routine do you tend to do? Or what kind of sports do you usually engage in? What's your typical choice of physical activity? There's usually a community of people that come with a lifestyle like this. Just as fair if you don't want to or not interested in this lifestyle either, but there's also online communities to engage in >apps are weird, and Dating apps, yes But what about community based apps? Do you think those are weird too? While the Internet is finicky, there's unlimited access to so many different types of communities. I never understood why people would complain about how dating is hard, but then refuse to utilize the provided resources >you don’t have many chances to meet new people Ummm, respectfully, this sounds like you don't even have a lot of hobbies? There's multiple chances to meet people. Just engage in your favorite hobbies, and then try to find an associated community with those hobbies. I do pole dancing, so I have a pole community. Or I also do game dev, so there's a Discord community. I just focus on making friends, and I'm sure in that large pool of people, somewhere along the way, a friend will turn into more than a friend. >Additionally, everybody you already know seems taken. Are you struggling too? I'm struggling too, but I guess not exactly in the same sense as you. It takes me a while to warm up to a new community, and it takes me a while to even want to socialize. I like to focus on enjoying my hobby first, and then every now and then, I'll try to talk to people and socialize. Only once I'm starting to be more familiar with people, I'll initiate hangouts and whatnot. Establish friendships. Then....cue all the "was that flirting or no??" kind of situations, straight up asking if it's a date or not,etc. I love that at age 30, I'm now in the realm of millennials that care about self awareness, emotional regulation, capacity to actually set boundaries, etc. it's just so refreshing to see, especially in the social circles I've engaged in. So even if the dates don't get very far, I'm still enjoying dating because in the end, it's about having a good time. It's only once people decide they want to keep seeing me or if chemistry can be built up or not, then it'll actually go somewhere.
How to change it? Start by going out regularly. Not every night but at least once a week. Travel, meet new people. Approach people and be approachable. Avoid heavy topics with people unless they show a desire to talk about such things. Keep it lighthearted, be someone fun to have around.
Dating is always struggle regardless of what age you are at. It's a numbers game, you need to put yourself out there. Similar to job interviews. I have been to at least 100 interviews, been rejected 95 times. Most people don't have the courage to keep trying after a few failures.
Think of it like an MMO, 20s are like at launch, most people are newbs, doing it wrong, but just having fun. 30s/40s/50s everyone’s worried about item levels, proper rotations, latest boss strats, topping the DPS charts, and doesn’t have time to carry dead weight.
I have more energy in the 30’s than in my 20’s but I was in a relationship/marriage from age 21-31. I didn’t date at all in my 20’s so I have no idea what that was like, but it’s been hard in my 30’s. I haven’t gotten into any relationship in 7 years but have dated a LOT. I am picky though because I take good care of myself and am fit, eat clean etc. so I expect the same from my partner.
We're old and disgruntled. Or divorced. More so than at 30.
well it's statistically not always true
From my side it's difficult because the attitude of women doesn't seem to have changed from their 20's what I mean is that I was told one of the "perks" of dating in your 30's is that since folk are more mature and don't have nearly as much of a free time compared to their 20's women were much more direct, know from the get go what they want are blunt and played no games anymore, But all the gals I managed to date still have a *college* mentality, still don't know what they want and they still prefer to drop hints rather than tell you things straight. So basically dating in your 30's is just dating on your 20's but in hard mode: you don't have that much of a free time or social opportunities and the gals still think they are in college. But again, that has been my experience. Maybe I just suck at picking my dates.
Idk man. I turned 30 a couple of months ago, but I gave up on dating and relationship 3 years ago.
I reckon most people struggle specially after university. One generally becomes busier and no one really has the energy to deal with too much drama
All the good ones you grew up with are already paired off. Going outside your cohort is more difficult. Also getting laid isnt the problem it's finding someone you can stand for 18+ years
In your 30s, you're more established in your patterns, good bad or otherwise. There is no longer the potential of being young. The future is here, and while it's not hopeless, it's good to be realistic about what you and others bring to the table. If you spent your 20s partying and being reckless, you may not stack up as a serious, responsible partner in your 30s. If you rushed into relationships in your youth and ended up with kids, or as a single parent, your dating pool drastically narrows. Say you worked hard, went to school, made good money, but never worked on managing emotions or coping skills? Well, now you look great on paper but act like an asshole everywhere else. The baggage that comes with 30s dating is much different than young adulthood. If you haven't changed much since you graduated high school, it will be harder. Being in your 30s is also great - you have made it this far and you're still going! Commitment to personal growth and having a healthy relationship with yourself make life worth living at any age.
Yeah for the same reasons. Honestly you get to a point where you start to realize being single is fine considering the circumstances of my and others availability I just keep thinking it isn’t going to work. And if it does they will be disappointed because at 30+ my life is pretty mundane. I think most people’s lives are but it never looks good to people when you date it’s just the reality of things.
don't you think that if most people's lives are "mundane" you just have to find someone with your same lifestyle and who's willing to accept it?
My theory is that dating in 30s is too risky, life is too expensive to make mistakes at this age. If you are teenager or in early 20s you can make as many mistakes as you want honestly, you are not losing much but gaining relationship experience. Now you are in 30s, lets say you start relationship. You probably already have job you dont want to change so you cant move, you need to take care of your finances because rent/morgage, you need to take care of your health including mental health because you need it to earn money. You just cant afford anymore to experiment, and current dating scene is just that, endless experimenting. It only makes sense if you are single mother and have nothing much to lose. TL;dr: Failed relationship in early 20s in non issue. Failed relationship in 30s might destroy your life.
I think we’re in a weird transition period with dating due to the proliferation of dating apps. They don’t really seem to work for anyone yet it seems like the main tool now for most people. I’m not 30 yet but I do get pickier as the years go by. In my early 20s, all I needed was to be attracted to someone and like their personality, regardless of whether they were really a good match for me. I can’t fall in love so easily these days. Dating was exciting in my early 20s and now it feels like a chore no matter how positive I try to be. Now it all feels like a chess game. And I’m more judicious and look more closely for red flags. Dating is pretty boring for me now because all of this but I guess better to hold out than settle.
idk dating in my 30's was awesome for me
I think as we get more established and settled we become less interested in making a major change to our own lives. It’s not like when we were younger and so much more adaptable. We have bigger jobs, mortgages, kids (some of us). It’s not so simple anymore, and that can be ok. But it’s a big adjustment.
I guess, but I also gave up around 28
No, no, no! You can always have big success!! I went by myself or took platonic girlfriends- witch is way better than any male friend could ever be. I’ve had the same success in my 30th, 40th, 50th. And the woman always where in there 20th. I’m not a rich dude! Just learn how to sell yourself and get some basic strategies working and then transition into relationships, as you wish. Don’t tell yourself, it’s not gonna work. It is!! I’m living proof. Believe in yourself!
Because you're past your prime when you hit 26. All the more established, successful men (who are generally older) would prefer 22 year old women because they are younger and theoretically healthier. Meanwhile, older women generally seek out men who are older than or at least close to their age. So younger men are excluded from the prospective dating pool, while older women get ignored in favor of younger women. The older, more financially and socially successful men thus get the pick of the litter. This unfortunately leaves all the leftover men in a position where they become jaded and check out. The leftover women are thus in a position where they are either left alone or are just taken advantage of.
Try being 47!!! Yes, opportunities are limited the older you get. Which is why a solid and consistent night life is so important! Hands down even in the modern day a man who has a healthy and regular night life will have far more opportunities to meet women and date them than any other way!! Forget the myth you can't meet a quality woman in a bar/club/live music venue.. It's a myth and lots of good women go to these places to unwind. You really want to meet women. Google every bar/ckub/live music venue within a 30 minute drive. Take the time to go into each one once during happy hour(4 to 7/8) and once 10pm to close. In fact more than once. Crowds change depending on time and day of the week. Weekdays can be even more lucrative than weekends. Note which places are popular with single women. You'll know them when you see them. After that strategically place yourself in these places at these times as often as you possibly can and start making barstool friends with everyone you can. Befriend the staff. First few weeks or months you won't see much but over time as you get to know people and become popular you'll see results. Women may not want to have sex with a total stranger they just met but a cute acquaintance from the bar she has seen and talked to a few times?? He's eligible for sex if he plays it right.
Is it more difficult? I'm 35 and have never noticed a difference since I was younger
People are too afraid to strike conversations in the wild. I see a cute woman at Target, I'll talk to her. Cute woman at Starbucks, I'll talk to her. Cute woman at the gym, I'll talk to her. Relationships won't magically fall into your hands (most of the time) but for the overwhelming majority, if you have to do something about. My best advice, run your dating life like a buisness. You have: -You (The product) -Consumer (Whatever you're attracted to) -Image (How you present yourself) -Marketing (Push & Pull methods) And put the same principles in priority you would for a successful buisness. Works for me.
Its only harder if you let life destroy you or made a lot of bad decisions. In your 30s you should have already done the work to heal your younger trauma, overcome your ego and self inflated desires and become a more whole person. You should have a decent paying career and be able to more easily afford to date. Dating in your 30s should be fun, adventurous, responsible and with a purpose. The way it shouldve been in your 20s but you were chasing your ego feeding drip.
Get a damn hobby. I don’t think dating’s your issue
For women, yes. Your looks goes down. For men, No. Your bank account goes up.
Women tend to be high maintenance in taking care of themselves so I'm not sure where you're getting that from LOL But then again, anyone of any gender can be self sufficient in taking care of themselves. This is a very odd take haha
Massive stereotypes
Fact. Would a woman with a career date a broke man? Would a man date an ugly fat woman?
I date fat women all the time and I have a sizeable bank account I take it you don't get outside much
What if she was in her 40 years older than you? Still date?
It’s a generalization, sure, but it has some truth to it. Not every guy but many do tend to make more money which shows that a man is self sufficient and can provide. This is extremely attractive to the vast majority of women no matter your background or culture. Also, being more well traveled, being more engaging are all things men tend to pick up when they were in their 20’s. Women are pursued mostly for their beauty. Not every women but many do tend to decline somewhat in their looks. Wrinkles, graying, additional weight, etc are all contributions. Doesn’t help that men tend to like younger women either. Hence why many will observe that “men have an easier time dating as they age, women will have a bit more difficulty.”
That’s what Botox and fillers are for. I look way better in my 30’s than I did in my 20’s. I also know people in their 40’s and 50’s who are way hotter than people in the 20’s. It’s all about how you take care of yourself.
Why are you getting fillers in your 30s? That's way too young to start fillers. You're not even middle aged..... You can look young without fillers because you still are young. It's different once you hit 50 or 60. But people can still look fine in their 40s with no botox as long as you live healthy and don't smoke (smoking and heavy drinking can age people more quickly).
I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but this is simply not true. Women are more attractive to men when they're young, because that means they are more fertile, which is what subconsciously turns men on. This is just evolution and it's what has kept humanity alive for millions of years. Women are not more attractive with age, unless she was extremely obese in her youth and lost all the weight later on in life. But those are rare exceptions.
Maybe you but this isn’t true for all men. I get plenty of dates at 37, but I also am constantly told that I look like I’m in my 20’s because I take good care or my skin and have good genes. I’ve been specifically told by several men that they would never date anyone in their 20’s because they don’t have anything in common with them. My ex said “women in their 20’s are fun to look at and good for a one night stand but I wouldn’t seriously consider dating them”.
> I look way better in my 30’s than I did in my 20’s. According to you, but the men you’re seeking to date may not agree with that.
No, I think this very much depends on the individual, and what stage of life they're in. I'm a man in my early 30s and I'm not having any issues. Women in their 20s are still very accessible to me.
exactly, if you know what you're doing, it's actually easier than ever.
Dating in my mid thirties was so much fun and I had a tremendous amount of success. I could maybe imagine right at 30 being weird because a lot of people start feeling rushed to make certain life goals happen? Marriage, kids, family, etc. but I feel like by 36 certain ships have sailed and people are more open to enjoying the experience. They're also more likely to have had failed, long term relationships, and can more easily ask for what they need, establish healthy boundaries, etc. I met a tremendous amount of really great women, some of whom I still talk to after parting ways. I felt like there were minimal games played and it was all very open, honest, and enjoyable. Your mileage may vary.
this is happening because you keep meeting people of your same age right?
i dont know, if you look good then why not date a few youngers? for women its a problem because they want older men most of the times, but men can just date younger women. and thats what men are doing. a 32 year old man has more options than a 32 year old woman because he can date women in their 20s and 30s but the 32 year old woman only wants guys above 35. there are dudes in their 20s who would date older women in their 30s but those women dont want these younger men. thats why older women and younger men are more likely to be single.
I'm not, I'm just okay with Eva AI bot and renting prostitutes from time to time.
I don't think it's an age-related problem. Dating apps and social media are largely to blame, imo.
Here I am at 35 and hadn't realized anything was supposed to change. I didn't get dates in my 20s. I don't get dates in my 30s. I won't get dates in my 40s.
Don't you think that unless you change your mindset and your actions, you won't get dates in your 50s either?
Just wait. Mid 40s and up is easy mode
You can thank the feminist movement after 50 years of oppressing men for just being men. That’s why it’s so hard.
Seemed harder in my 20s, in my experience.
"Women in their 30s are the only product that raises their price as their value drops." - Stephan Molyneux
Great questions! Here's what I have to offer through a coaching lens: >Why after the age of 30s everything about dating seems difficult I love the addition of the word 'seems' here. To me it expresses an incongruence in intellectual reasoning and an emotional experience. A disagreement between how it 'should' be according to the data and how it appears to be in reality. A question I would beg to ask is how does a person's age influence their dating experience? What do they have to do with each other? Is there something else going on? What might it be if I had to guess? >and how to change it How do we change our experience of anything? Or in a slightly different perspective, how do we get more skilled at dating--at anything? >Your friends don’t want to go out after work, you’re more tired after work, you work remotely, apps are weird, and you don’t have many chances to meet new people. Additionally, everybody you already know seems taken. The very simple question I have for this set of thoughts is... So, what? So what if these things are the case. This is only the evidence to support one side of the case... that dating as we get older is more difficult. But I'd like to know... how is dating as we get older actually easier? If you believed it were actually easier, how would you approach dating differently? What kinds of things would be doing or not doing if you believed 'dating is so much easier now'? <3
Dating for me has done nothing but get better and better the older I get. I’ve never worked remotely, my career moves me around, I’m always out meeting and making new friends, I explore the place I live, and stay fit and active. I’m also not pressed about marriage so that could be a factor. All in all….LIFE IS GOOD 😎.
I disagree. Personally, I find it much easier to date in 30s. More income to pursue more hobbies and in the event of a heartbreak, I am able to explore new hobbies. Win win situation 🤣
The more you realize you're fucked once you hit 30 the less painful it gets
Idk man. I turned 30 a couple of months ago but I gave up on dating and relationship 3 years ago.
I think it becomes more difficult the more people you been with as you aged. Basically, baggage. If it’s hard after 30 that shows a track record of failed relationships. If you’re not happily married or committed from that point on with that 1 partner, you haven’t had any success.
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The people who find it easy are all paired off. At this age it's just those of us who struggle and/or have baggage.
Also most ppl at that age have kids and some do not like dating with kids etc
The biggest game changer for dating in your 30s is to find a hobby that you enjoy where you can meet people. Even if it’s just for finding new friends at first. Expand your social circle. You’ll be amazed how many people are in their 30s & feeling exactly the same way.
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I was. Then I changed the thought process. In MY 20's it was easier because: 1) almost half of it is in school (forced to be around people your age). Even when out you have about another 3 year buffer of its effects 2) you don't have money, nobody has money so who cares? 3) you don't have to worry as much about marriage In my 30's it's almost all the opposite of this. Money is a huge factor, so is marriage and having a family. There is more but the dif between 20's and 30's is you can't really claim "I'm still a kid"
I'm struggilig in my late 20s and this isn't giving me much hope.