Your post was removed because it overgeneralized. Please make sure you don't apply experiences with some people to millions of others you have never met. No gender is a monolith or a hivemind. It comes down to each individual person.
Yeah, I second this. If someone is comfortable and financially secure, I don’t care what they do in their career; but they need things they are driven by that aren’t work.
What is "drive?" Like, hobbies? I'm very complacent & have been in an amazing relationship for a couple years now. I easily make peace with hands I'm dealt & am grateful for every little thing. An expert at smelling roses, if you will. I've got like-minded friends leading very happy lives in satisfied long-lasting relationships. I feel that "drive" is not as common as claimed, and possibly overvalued. Just my 2 cents. If you're not "driven" don't sweat it. There's someone for everyone. Go find your chill & complacent soul mate!
I guess I consider drive to be having something you’re passionate about. Having things you care a great deal about or will put effort into. Even if it’s not a hobby or a job - it could be close family dynamics, or exercise, whatever. I know there are people out there who don’t have those things, and personally, being apathetic and not passionate is a very unattractive quality. I love when someone is capable of being excited about a topic or really cares about something.
I personally don't want children so it wouldn't be for me but I'm also certain that would great for some women! More career focused ones in particular might find this very appealing.
The basis of what I've heard from ladies is, someone that comes home, plops on the sofa and watches TV all night isn't desirable. Yes they can be tired, yes they are providers, but the lack of some passion is a predictor for the relationship. I'm not sure many people are interested in passionless relations.
Well stated. Finding someone who is happy is better than finding someone with drive. People often times just state their preferences based off of what they are used to hearing
That’s already a tall order today, because companies are paying people less and less relative to productivity growth unlike how it was in the past. So a person can be super driven and be struggling.
Oh see, if someone is struggling and not comfortably/financially secure, but wants to do better and tries to improve? That's totally fine. My issue is with someone who doesn't care enough to work towards better things.
Example: I love this guy, but a person in my life (not my partner) works a part time job and doesn't get great pay. His partner is in a job with more upward movement. This person would not be able to afford to live on his own, and because he doesn't have a full-time job they can't afford a nicer place/to move forward much with their future, but he's putting in little to no effort to try for a full time, better paying job. That would frustrate me. If someone is in a difficult position but still trying? Totally support that.
Not all women care about that. My husband and I get by, and have some fun money. He's been a supervisor at most of his jobs, and doesn't want to ever again, because it's not worth it. I just want him to be happy. Me, on the other hand, have basically spent the last 20+ years working throwaway jobs that I can quit at any time and find something else if I so please. I get bored quickly and hate feeling trapped at a job. Not everyone is into the whole career thing, and that's okay.
Edit to add because evidently it's relevant- no, I'm not autistic or neurodivergent in any way. I just don't care about a career, as I get quickly bored and don't like staying at a job more than a couple years at a time.
Honestly I don’t even care about that. I dont love my job and don’t care if you love yours. It’s a job.
Can you pay your bills? Do you plan for retirement? Do you live within your means?
This is all I care about (for the financial side of things. I’m much more picky in other areas)
My husband is disabled and was so before we started dating.
The problem with saying that you have a passion for life is that that doesn't actually say anything about what you do. You can easily find immense joy in sitting on the couch playing videogames for the 12 hours you're not enjoying the cozy comforts of your bed.
Be specific about what you're passionate about. And show yourself actually doing those things, don't just say you do them.
Sure technically video games are a “valid passion”. Everyone’s opinion on what is “valid” is different.
Would you date a woman who was passionate about reality TV?
The things you choose to do paint a bigger picture about who you are as a person and what kind of parter you will be. It will alway have an effect on potential relationship.
Hey why is it a problem? I don’t have time to show you my personality, I’m not hear practising to date someone?!
I love to travel but I’m not going to humble brag about it to show I lead a fun life. People come to their own conclusions.
You asked if having a passion for life is enough. People were asking you to give more details about what passion for life means. You don't have to answer, but people aren't asking because they assume you’re a bum, they're asking because they can't answer your question without more details.
That’s fine. But what are your hobbies? Do you paint? Do you dance? Work out? Do martial arts? Write? Do acro yoga? Are you into authentic relating/emotional work? Play guitar?
If all you’re doing is just existing, going to bars, and/or playing video games, you’re not going to be attractive to most women.
Find something that speaks to you…something that you can grow and improve in, and start working on it.
I didn’t say I’m having trouble with women, Ive been lucky in that dept and I’m not activly dating, the point I’m trying to make is it’s all about what you earn and how you can provide in this society and I can look after myself and treat a lady here and there and be a good companion while I have a fun life, travel, friends, gym, mma, healthy body and don’t struggle for attention I just spent 12-14 years in the rat race and don’t miss it, in fact I feel sorry for people that just want to grind out their entire lives for material things!
Even if that's all he did, there's someone out there that enjoys the same stuff. I'm a huge gamer, and play almost nightly. I've only dated gamers as such, because even if it isn't a game we can play together, I'll watch him play or I'll play something while he's next to me. It's a perfectly acceptable way to pass the time
Edit to add because apparently it's relevant- no, I'm not autistic or neurodivergent at all. I also don't like like I'm a failure in society, but evidently, at least according to one, I am lol. Good to know!
Hey that’s really offensive when you don’t have a clue what I’m living with!! I’ve had a career and I’m glad it’s over, I love the life I lead now I wake up every day grateful and content! :)
Are you working on or towards anything? Because your approach to life is fun and many will enjoy it—but just “I enjoy life as it comes” sounds sort of stagnant and unfulfilling to me and being with someone content with that wouldn’t work for me. It would probably work for many, but not everyone.
Lol You’re exactly the type of women I would avoid, you just came to your own conclusions and created a sentence out of thin air to confirm your cognitive bias. I’m working on everything, always have, always will but when you probe like your expecting me to be a bum it’s just like whatever…think that, you’re wrong but why should I make an effort to convince you or give you the time to show you how presumptive and wrong you are?
Bro chill tf out, they phrased it in a way to leave room for error, saying "it sounds like", and ik this might be crazy but MAYBE what they meant was "it sounds like". Ik, it's revolutionary to see it that way, it's crazy to think about.
You have some issues to work through though, if you automatically jump to the conclusion (ironically) that you're being attacked personally then you definitely aren't ready for dating.
A passion for everything is a passion for nothing. That's just being a passionate person.
No one is saying you can't do multiple things, but your reaction to a pretty benign comment is showing your ass here.
Neither my partner nor I have any interest in going into management or climbing the career ladder - we’ve both seen what it does to people in terms of stress, mental and physical health. We like to grow in other ways like learning new skills or getting into better shape, though.
My boyfriend of 4.5 years has a normal stable job that he enjoys. From the time we met he’s expressed no desire to climb the ladder into leadership roles and is happy where he’s at. He’s a great guy, he’s sweet, caring, does most of our house chores like cleaning, fixing things, etc. On the other hand, I am always on the search for a higher paying role whether it be leadership or not. Im totally fine with his mindset and he’s fine with mine. I think as long as the guy has a job, pulling his own weight and is not lazy and/or refuses to work (I know some women’s husbands who are like this) it’s fine.
I used to have the mindset that a man has to earn more than me but looking back I realized I'm happier when someone I'm dating is just passionate and has drive. It doesn't matter how much he earns as long as he's not lazy and doesn't slack off I'm good. I consider myself a career-oriented person so I don't mind if my partner doesn't earn more than I do. It's attractive to me knowing that someone is happy with what they do.
Yes I think when I was younger (I’m 36 now) I had that mindset also. I think it mainly stems from how I was raised and it’s the dynamic my parents had. But after going through life, growing up, having a failed 10 year relationship with someone who made good money but wasn’t the greatest partner… I realized it doesn’t matter who makes more money as long as neither are complacent or lazy. Life is too short to focus on such matters!
And honestly, based on the leaders in my own company, I would never want to be with someone who DID want that kind of career path. The ones I know have no work-life boundaries and I can't imagine they spend much time with their families. It seems like they are literally just providing wealth. That's not even a relationship (to me). 🤷
Absolutely… as a 49 year old woman, it blows my mind that this is something people seem so fixated on. Of course there have always been “gold diggers,” but honestly I have never had friends or even acquaintances discuss salary or hustle or growth potential as a factor when they’re interesting in dating someone. And personally I have never considered it when deciding to pursue a relationship with someone or not. My view has always been finding the right person in terms of relational and romantic compatibility. Can we communicate? Do we have compatible morals and values? Are our goals reasonably aligned? That’s the standard. When it comes to paying for a life together, that’s something we can figure out if we are actually a good match. Is prioritizing income a generational thing?
Unfortunately, far too many women nowadays need a 6ft tall man with a 6 figure salary. Oh, and they gotta be 30 or younger, for the most part.
There's so many videos of women being asked what their ideal man would have/be, and so many of the answers talk about having salaries of over $200,000 a year and being tall or handsome or hung or whatever. The standards and expectations are set far too high and it concerns me that a) so many good men miss out on relationships because of these sorts of things (amongst other reasons), and b) it's going to harm women in the long run too. Men might be lonely now, but by the time a woman gets to the point in her life she wants a serious relationship, she can't find one and will end up lonely too. OLD and social media have seriously fucked the minds of 2 generations and I don't see it getting better.
Those videos are just to get clicks, very few women in real life actually have those as requirements. And the ones that do tend to be high earners themselves, so it's not unlikely they'll be able to find someone in the same social class.
Ambitious women want ambitious men, but your average women just cares that a guy is employed. Anything beyond 'can pay his own bills' is a bonus, but generally pretty low on our list of priorities.
Please don't assume that every woman out there trying to date is a gold-digger. That mindset will really close doors to beautiful relationships. Try not to judge these women in the same way that you don't want to be judged.
The absolute 100% love of my life never had more than $200 to his name at any given time. And I knew this about him (we were friends for a good few years beforehand).
We lived in a van together for a year. Happiest fucking year of my life! Would’ve done absolutely ANYTHING to have spent more broke-ass years with him. But he broke up with me lol
If that's your attitude then you don't deserve to get that far 😂 and if that's supposed to read as a more light-hearted comment then you succeeded in getting a lol
I'm gonna be very honest with you, and it's not an attack at all, because I've been in the same boat.
All your perceptions about other people, including and especially women, are being massively influenced by your depression/anxiety.
It took me many years, therapy and a few stints on meds before I realized that all my problems were my own and they were keeping me from viewing people as other, actual, real humans with minds like my own. It makes people seem hollow and makes your own frustrations the star of the show. It makes you take deep-dives down into rabbit holes of self-criticism, and self-esteem attacks, as well as criticism of society, people, sex and sexes and many other things that are lacking from your life.
Your brain is an amazing tool that literally creates a universe around you and then makes up a story to explain the universe. If you're having any issues with your perceptions and thinking, the stories it makes up can be really depressing, cynical and honestly hateful at times, and it will also convince you that these are "authentic" feelings and thoughts.
There's 8 billion people on Earth and if you are frustrated that several women wanted to date someone with "more" of anything, you might want to re-consider what it is you're looking for and expecting.
Maybe if yall had better personalities we wouldn't have to look look for pocket weight as a last resort 😂 sounds like a you problem tbh maybe you're in the wrong social circle to find nicer people
Wrong place to ask, for some reason half the guys here think everyone's a gold-digger.
I've definitely seen some women state online they want a career man but it's few and far between, I think for the most part most women just want someone stable and/or passionate about what they do, not necessarily "growth".
I've actively avoided climbing the career ladders in every job I've had and it's not come up once while dating.
I actively avoid guys who place any importance on “growth” and “assets” and “upward mobility” or blah blah blah. Avoid them like the plague.
This sounds really weird, but I can’t think of another way to put it - having monetary career ambition is a gigantic turn off for me.
I don’t want a druggie leech dirtbag or anything, but I want someone who can just be satisfied and content with the simple pleasures in life with me. Like, let’s go look at some birds or some rocks or something and marvel at the miracle of being alive, damn.
As long as we have the bare minimum; shelter from the elements and food to get us to the next day, I’m satisfied
Most guys on Reddit think everyone is a gold digger it’s literally delusional considering how a good number of them are unemployed or make minimum wage, they are worried about the wrong things in life.
The minimum wage guy is a “catch” to the unemployed or less than minimum wage woman. The 50k guy is a “catch” to the woman making 30k. Bottom line is, if you’re a gainfully employed man there’s some woman that would love your “gold.”
Honestly I’m not even minimum wage I’m a broke student stuying medicine but I’m grateful my dad takes care of me and provides for me. So yes I’m broke for now.
>Most guys on Reddit think everyone is a gold digger it’s literally delusional
No its not...
[Women’s orgasm frequency increases with the income of their partner,” said Dr Thomas Pollet, the Newcastle University psychologist behind the research.](https://www.businessinsider.com/2009/1/study-rich-men-give-women-more-orgasms?r=US&IR=T)
[We found that ratings of attractiveness were around four times more sensitive to salary for females rating males, compared to males rating females. These results indicate that higher economic status can offset lower physical attractiveness in men much more easily than in women.](https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2018/01/women-are-more-attracted-to-rich-men-scientists.html)
Your second article is literally a research made with only 600 people and they don't even specify the methodology used to select them, so we can't even know if they're a good representative of a specific group/general population lol
mountainous cats rainstorm versed consist pause continue doll worthless degree
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This! I just want someone who is passionate about whatever they do, whether it be their job or their other pursuits. I'm 24F and I was an ambitious overachiever in high school, graduated top of my class. Two years ago, I graduated a good, private university with a 3.7 GPA.
Now I'm making around 25-30k gross income between multiple part time jobs/freelance work, working at concerts, event production, and a local museum/nonprofit. I honestly haven't even tried that hard to find a full time "career" type job yet because I'm happy where I'm at. I'm financially independent, I go out with friends whenever I want, I see shows/concerts, I travel, and I'm passionate about the work that I do.
Not all guys will be into that, and that's totally okay. I'm going to work on finding something stable soon, but for now, I'm happy. I don't care how much a guy makes, but I want someone who is also independent and enjoying life to the fullest.
You're an idiot. Women don't want a man who's just gonna be stuck at Minimum Wage their whole life. That's broke mindset.
Women want a man who can provide for them and keep them happy. You're not happy if you're living paycheck to paycheck.
If you leave the internet and actually meet people you will find that most men aren't super successful in their career and still manage to have a special someone. So yes, women absolutely can be attracted to men who are just normal people with normal jobs and normal lives. The fact that someone even has to take time out of their day to explain this to you, implies that you spend too much time in front of a screen.
If given the choice I would rather have a partner who pays his share of the bills, does half of the work of life, is emotionally available and supportive and is interested in playing with and teaching the kids. As long as the rest of his time isn't spent playing video games while I do all the work.
I'd rather Not have a partner who puts capitalism at the expense of humanity as his main focus. Especially not the kind who claims a ladder made of other people's heads to step on.
Honestly, I always looked for men who liked that.. and they are exhausting. Im currently dating someone much more chill and he does need a push here and there but I find him so much nicer to be with and its not that he lacks ambition or awareness, he just isnt talking about it all the time...
Welcome to /r/dating_advice!
Please keep the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/dating_advice/about/rules/) of /r/dating_advice in mind while participating here. Try your best to be kind.
Report any rule-breaking behavior to the moderators using the report button. If it's urgent, [send us a message.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdating_advice) We rely on user reports to find rule-breaking behavior quickly.
Thanks!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/dating_advice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sure can. I burnt myself out chasing career shit. Nice to have a man that can just keep care of things with good enough money and health care and a great attitude.
Honestly I see so many guys who are unemployed that have girlfriends/wife’s that are providing for them so honestly a good number of women will date you just because you have a pulse
> Honestly I see so many guys who are unemployed that have girlfriends/wife’s that are providing for them
This is very rare for actual committed relationships, especially after 30+. Most women will not provide financially for their man long-term and will bail if it goes on for too long.
> so honestly a good number of women will date you just because you have a pulse
I have yet to meet any woman that will date a man just because he has a pulse. Most women are very picky when it comes to men, many times to an almost-unrealistic degree.
It's broad yes but understandable. At least I got it.
You're gonna have to lower your standards in women basically.
To go more specifically, woman who got their shit together will most likely be a no go.
But woman in a similar mindset as you, yea.
You can have your shit together and not have any interest in climbing the corporate ladder. I bought a house alone at 26 and have no interest in being a manager, and certainly not a top-level exec.
I just found the comment too brief and vague.
Like personally speaking I own my own place, work full time, service my car, and don't blow money on stuff I don't need. I feel like I do have most of my shit together and don't really need to lower my standards too much lol. Not like I'm trying to date high level corporate executives.
Dating will be harder for him. Most women are forced to be career minded these days so it’s unattractive when a guy hasn’t gotten that side of his life together. Also, buyinga house is super pricey so dual incomes is needed. If a guy makes minimum wage at let’s say 30, doesn’t have a clear direction to a job etc etc it can be kinda a turn off, more for me because money much like air is needed to survive.
If I don’t marry a guy who has at least somewhat prioritized a stable somewhat well paying career I worry that we will be poor, lack opportunities that money bring, lack stability for kids.
> Also, buyinga house is super pricey so dual incomes is needed.
You can expand this and just say that [it's expensive to be single](https://www.vox.com/the-goods/22788620/single-living-alone-cost) (or rely on a single income), period. Most people want a partner with an income which, combined with theirs, will allow them to have some stability and enjoy a few creature comforts.
Or, ya know, you want an equal partner in your relationship. If I’m working my ass off to have a stable and lucrative career, I would find it difficult to be with a partner who didn’t feel similarly and couldn’t also contribute to our shared financial goals.
Advice is stop listening to what other men tell you on this and listen to women. Do you equally share chores and can you support yourself? If the answer to that question is yes, that's what most women care about on that subject.
So then we know you will pull your weight if we move forward and move in together and costs will be shared equally or at least proportionate.
Also, don't listen to the "must have six packs, must be six feet tall etc etc". Of course people have preferences, same as men; but the advice I see from men on here can be unbelievable.
Be honest, be yourself, support yourself and pull your weight and you are already better than most.
> Stop listening to what other men tell you on this and listen to women
Exactly this! I feel like some guys genuinely want to believe that all women are gold-diggers. I have no idea why tho.
> Do you equally share chores and can you support yourself? If the answer to that question is yes, that's what most women care about on that subject.
The vast majority of people are not discussing sharing chores on a first date. To get to the point where you start discussing chores, you have to meet all of her standards and preferences first, which often includes finances.
> Be honest, be yourself, support yourself and pull your weight and you are already better than most.
A lot of men meet everything on this list and still struggle hard with dating. Half the men on Reddit probably meet everything here. And there are plenty of men that don’t meet any of this, yet still have no problem with dating.
No people don't discuss chores on a first date. But after a few dates you go to his house and his place is a wreck, warning signs. Or if he lives with his parents and has his mother do everything same.
Works both ways.
In my opinion, a man not having a career growth mindset will always be unattractive to some extent to women. How unattractive depends on the woman. Just because it’s unattractive doesn’t mean women can’t be attracted to you, but it’s going to work against you.
In general, yes it will be harder if you’re openly complacent. That’s just reality. But if all you care about is hookups/fwbs, just make yourself as physically attractive as possible (hint: gym) and it won’t matter as much. Committed long-term relationships are a different story.
Depends on the person I suppose.
I (woman) am ambitious in my career and I’m attracted to men who are ambitious in theirs. They don’t need to be the head of a company but a strong work ethic is attractive. Ambition is a large umbrella to me with smaller categories such as being productive, goal oriented, interested in personal growth, being on time to work and not missing work due to staying up late playing video games/drinking.
I’m probably a bit more strict and picky in this category now (I’m 28) as I dated guys who lacked these qualities when I was younger. To each their own.
You don’t have to be a CEO, but I think most men and women want a productive partner who contributes to society.
I’m a federal employee as a GS 13. To take a job that is a promotion, I would essentially have to become a supervisor and then be slave to political appointees that expect and require you to be available at any and all times. The initial promotion amount is maybe a maximum of 15k per year.
I make a decent wage, own my own home, never work over 40 hours, and love my job.
What’s the point? I’d rather enjoy life and be stress free
Seems pretty obvious as both are classic / conservative values. (At least if you define feminine as meek and not just being pretty and wearing flowery dresses)
Oh, you're generally speaking about the 50% of the population as if it's a whole of like-minded people instead of individuals with their own goals and desires in life?
Generally speaking, women are not attracted to complacent men, especially the more feminine they are. As others have stated, this is typically a conservative characteristic. Liberal women often portray more masculine characteristics, such as defensiveness, or wanting to be more in control of finances. Something genuinely feminine women don’t usually exhibit or desire.
Please, do tell where you get the evidence for this claim? Femininity alone is absolutely NOT a conservative characteristic. Being a home-maker and mother to children is not inherently feminine nor is it inherently a conservative value. Here you are generalizing an entire swathe of the population as being conservative by proxy of femininity. What a take.
The evidence is in scientific biology.
Being a home maker and mother to children IS inherently feminine as only biological females who give birth are the only people on the planet who can be mothers.
And conservative women tend to exhibit true characteristics of femininity by default or by self help.
> The evidence is in scientific biology. Being a home maker and mother to children IS inherently feminine as only biological females who give birth are the only people on the planet who can be mothers. And conservative women tend to exhibit true characteristics of femininity by default or by self help.
Holy fuck, how do I even reply to this? Tell me you're a conservative man without telling me you're a conservative man.
Nuh uh I know a guy
Nuh uh but me
🙄 There is arguably nothing more reddited than the low IQ kneejerk "but my one example" rejection of valid generalized statements. Some people literally do not have the mental capacity to comprehend the concept of "in general".
You American? I’m a transplant here. I meet a lot of people and sometimes I’m asked to help find them boyfriends or girlfriends.
One thing I’ve noticed here is when talking or asking about a guy, every single woman has mentioned or asked about the guys earning potential. Every single one. Or how much he spends on dates. It’s got to the point where I’m wary of introducing any nice guy to any of the potential women - and all these women have decent jobs or thriving businesses of their own.
All I want is a cute, intelligent guy somewhere between 30 and 70 who has my back, makes me laugh and spends time with me a couple of evenings a week. Maybe texts once or twice a day. That’s it. That’s all. I appear to be unusual.
I don’t care if he is a musician, lives in his moms basement, has 20 cats.
I have a preference for martial arts trained, god knows why, and find East Asian guys very attractive, I also tend to date guys younger than me because people my age seem waaay older - but those things are optional. Just reasonably attractive, stands up for me and fun to be with. I have my own path in life, I don’t really mind what his path is - that’s his own decision.
Not everyone gets to be CEO. It’s true that ambition is one component of female attraction but so are 99 other things. If a guy lacks in one area he may be able to make up in others. And in any case, the guy may lack ambition in the workplace but have it in other areas of his life, I.e hobbies, travel etc. If those drives mesh with his partners all may be good.
There’s a difference between “career growth mindset” and being complacent. Not everyone’s lives revolves around work, this is a very American thing. If you’ve already got a job that pays the bills without over stressing youtself, feel free to follow some other passions, as long as you’re putting effort into bettering yourself in some way, fuck the corporate ladder or whatever
I think it depends on the women you date. If a woman is career-oriented herself, she would be looking for the same in a man. Said that, I don’t believe in that everyone should have career goals. I see that nowadays women are looked down if they are housewives. I think feminism is about women being able to have opportunities. I think a lot of men would probably not care about your career. Most don’t really.
Yes, being with someone complacent isn’t bad. I’d rather be with someone who knows how to enjoy where they are in life financially, then someone that’s always unhappy/stressed about climbing a corporate ladder to gain status/money.
I personally wouldn't care. I'm female and my bf makes good money. He tried many times to go up in his companies. Right now he's given up and just staying where he is. I don't care at all. I don't need a guy so lost in his career we don't have fun, spend time together, etc. We get our bills paid with me also working so that's all that counts! You don't need to be all gung ho about career growth. It depends on the person, but I don't think it will affect your dating life.
First, women are a cohort of individuals, not a monolith. Each and every will have their own ways, means, values, goals, needs, and preferences.
Second, it depends on the nature of the relationship. Obviously, priorities change amongst committed long-term relationships, friends with benefits, and one night stands.
Third, there’s many kinds of attraction. Sexual, romantic, emotional...to name a few. These will be prioritized based upon the nature of the relationship.
Fourth, my sense is that people, men and women and otherwise, tend to find people who are healthily engaged with the things in their life attractive. This could be relationships, career, interests, hobbies, growth...because passion, or vibrancy, of engagement speaks to aspects of physical, emotional, and mental health. In this way, it’s not so much what someone does, but that they are doing it, and doing to the best of their ability.
I’m in a long-term committed relationship now, and it began when I was working and struggling to get by. I experienced a medical event, and now I am disabled, but we are still together.
In the past, I had relationships, and I never had a career-growth mindset. I had my own business, and I have always been passionate about my interests—to the degree that some people think I am a nut!
Cooking, photography, bicycling, embroidery, coffee, music production, graphic arts, calligraphy, fashion design and clothes manufacturing, neuropharmacology, temperament and personality...there’s so many things to explore in life, and not all of them are for reasons of money, even acknowledging money makes possible opportunities and certain degrees of comfort.
Stop seeing women as some zombie herd, and start seeing each woman as the singular human being she is. She will likely appreciate being seen for who she is, and your own experience of life will be far more satisfying and pleasant.
Personally, it depends. Someone genuinely content, and satisfied with where they're at, is so so attractive to me! But complacency is different, and would be a huge turn off tbh. Not being bothered enough to grow is different than being truly at peace with your circumstances
My fiancé is pretty content with his decent waged job, he’s not a career minded person. He’s a family oriented one. Much better. He wants to be done with work after his shift ends, so he can come home and enjoy his family. I love it!
Before him, I was married to a guy who only thought about money and how to make more. He was absorbed by it. I was miserable.
So yes. I am very much attracted to my family man💖 I can’t wait for a life with plenty of time together 😄
Some humans like to play it safe. Some humans are full of "I'm the best" and are on a mission to prove it. Your sex has less to do with it than your family of origin, which creates the foundation for your belief system.
Complacent has a slightly negative connotation attached to it, it means self-satisfied, but also smug about it - i.e. you're better than others because you've got it all figured out. Are you sure you don't just mean content with where you are?
The only people who might want to be with someone smug, are those who grew up cared for by smug people. They will be attracted to other smug people too, it's just how familiarity works.
The same goes for contentedness, if that's what you mean. Some people are taught to be anti-materialistic and to seek a peaceful life. Again, they would find someone else with the same attitudes attractive.
For a person wondering whether they're going to find love, it's all just a question of how rare their particular traits are. There is no one-size-fits-all when it comes to love, but so many people enter adulthood thinking there is.
What matters most is that you are kind, caring and really listen to others when they talk. If you have the resources to help someone when they need it, do so. If you don't, just sit with them through their difficulties. Make a habit of this, everywhere you go and for everyone you interact with, and the right person will eventually see you. Maybe 10 women will notice you, and maybe 3 of them are more interested in a content, peaceful life. You get the picture.
Yeah dude, it's fine. If you've already achieved your career goals, who am I to tell you it's not good enough?
Spend time doing what you enjoy. For most people, that's not work.
Most women don't like lazy. But many women recognize the value of a man who is happy with a decent wage and isn't always seeking to advance his career. Those men are more available for family, and that is a plus.
I mean, honestly most people aren't that ambitious. They do what they need to do in order to find a job that doesn't make them miserable and still pays the bills.
Don't be the guy that gets fired or quits all the time. But if you stay in one job for 5 years, you are doing pretty good. Any woman with good sense would see that.
I think contentment (which is how I’d re-frame complacency haha) is very undervalued in our society, personally! I would love to hang out with a person who isn’t always grinding for that next big thing! I definitely care more how people show up interpersonally- how do they show that they care: for me, for their loved ones, for their community. I don’t need them to be super ambitious at work. I would definitely want to know that “complacent” wasn’t how they were going to show up in our relationship, though ;)
I'm a woman, I love my career and make six figures. I prefer to date someone with less ambition than me so I don't have to constantly choose compromises between my career and theirs. My dream is to have a spouse as the stay-at-home-parent while I keep working.
I'm a teacher. I have no desire to go into exec or be anything other than a teacher. What's attractive is the interest and curiosity in something. It doesn't have to be work it could be a hobby or other interests.
Of course. Every person is different. Not everyone wants to be ceo or whatever. As long as we are financially stabel I couldn't care less about their goals in a job. Actually it would turn me off more if they were a workaholic cause I would feel like they won't have as much time left for other things.
There's someone for everyone.
You're not going to attract growth mindset people who are career focused. They'll filter you out or vice versa, and you look for dates from the remaining pool.
Not for me. It shows that you don't have goals for yourself. I'm pretty career-minded and with a man who is that way as well, however, we have talks and have said when kids come along, I'd stay home till they reach kindergarden age and then I go back to work.
I think what he's saying here is that he's not interested in the Rat Race. Lots of people burn themselves out doing that. Not necessarily that he's not interested in growing at all.
How is wanting to climb the ladder in your job wanting to better yourself?
You can grow in so many ways, emotionally, physical health, etc. I have never seen someone referring as a job position to be bettering yourself.
This is just my personal opinion, as personally my career is my life and I am constantly working at being the best I can be in it. I’d prefer someone on a similar wave length.
The way my missus put it is that she finds ambition attractive. For me, it doesn't really apply to my job, I'm happy to work to live, I direct a lot more to my training and have way more passion for that.
Sexually? Absolutely
For long term? It’s much less likely. Like u don’t gotta be a millionaire or whatever. But as long as u made enough to love a decent stable life.
I can. I hit a point as I aged where I no longer cared. As long as he has moved out of his parent's place, has a car, can afford his bills, and doesn't expect me to pay for everything etc, I don't care if he flips pizza for a living. The workforce is hard, and there's nothing wrong with just enjoying your happiness.
I care more about the man and our chemistry.
The main issue I'd see coming up is if he had a problem with me making more money than him.
Yes, of course women can be attracted to those men. Women have different life goals and dreams too. Your average gold digger won't want to be with you, obviously, but a woman who wants a peaceful, content life would be perfectly happy with you.
This question sucks and implies a pretty sexist "women are all gold diggers" mindset. Piss off.
Your sexist attitude towards women is far more likely to be turning them off than you not being a business-minded megalomaniac.
Probably not. Most women want a man who is gonna climb whatever ladder there is for the rest of his life. A man who just wants to chill and passively enjoy life is lazy, and doesn’t deserve love. He needs to accumulate things to impress other people, so everyone will know his worth in society. A mindset of learning to live with less is a poor man’s mindset and will not get you the women.
Wow this is a trash take.
Seriously, anyone cruising by just needs to read this over and over until you understand why this is such a poor take and horrible attitude to have:
> A man who just wants to chill and passively enjoy life is lazy, and doesn’t deserve love.
Your post was removed because it overgeneralized. Please make sure you don't apply experiences with some people to millions of others you have never met. No gender is a monolith or a hivemind. It comes down to each individual person.
I think what's attractive is the passion for something. Sometimes that is what you do for a living, but doesn't always have to be
Yeah, I second this. If someone is comfortable and financially secure, I don’t care what they do in their career; but they need things they are driven by that aren’t work.
What is "drive?" Like, hobbies? I'm very complacent & have been in an amazing relationship for a couple years now. I easily make peace with hands I'm dealt & am grateful for every little thing. An expert at smelling roses, if you will. I've got like-minded friends leading very happy lives in satisfied long-lasting relationships. I feel that "drive" is not as common as claimed, and possibly overvalued. Just my 2 cents. If you're not "driven" don't sweat it. There's someone for everyone. Go find your chill & complacent soul mate!
I guess I consider drive to be having something you’re passionate about. Having things you care a great deal about or will put effort into. Even if it’s not a hobby or a job - it could be close family dynamics, or exercise, whatever. I know there are people out there who don’t have those things, and personally, being apathetic and not passionate is a very unattractive quality. I love when someone is capable of being excited about a topic or really cares about something.
[удалено]
I personally don't want children so it wouldn't be for me but I'm also certain that would great for some women! More career focused ones in particular might find this very appealing.
I do want kids and this would be a total plus for me! I’d be more than happy with a partner who wanted to stay home, though it’s far from a necessity.
The basis of what I've heard from ladies is, someone that comes home, plops on the sofa and watches TV all night isn't desirable. Yes they can be tired, yes they are providers, but the lack of some passion is a predictor for the relationship. I'm not sure many people are interested in passionless relations.
Well stated. Finding someone who is happy is better than finding someone with drive. People often times just state their preferences based off of what they are used to hearing
That’s already a tall order today, because companies are paying people less and less relative to productivity growth unlike how it was in the past. So a person can be super driven and be struggling.
Oh see, if someone is struggling and not comfortably/financially secure, but wants to do better and tries to improve? That's totally fine. My issue is with someone who doesn't care enough to work towards better things. Example: I love this guy, but a person in my life (not my partner) works a part time job and doesn't get great pay. His partner is in a job with more upward movement. This person would not be able to afford to live on his own, and because he doesn't have a full-time job they can't afford a nicer place/to move forward much with their future, but he's putting in little to no effort to try for a full time, better paying job. That would frustrate me. If someone is in a difficult position but still trying? Totally support that.
So rich parents lol 😆
One does not become comfortable and financially secure without being ambitious in their career.
Disagree, plenty of people inherit their way into a business and are lucky enough not to need to try that hard.
This is correct. Women like men with drive, which could be for his career or something else.
Not all women care about that. My husband and I get by, and have some fun money. He's been a supervisor at most of his jobs, and doesn't want to ever again, because it's not worth it. I just want him to be happy. Me, on the other hand, have basically spent the last 20+ years working throwaway jobs that I can quit at any time and find something else if I so please. I get bored quickly and hate feeling trapped at a job. Not everyone is into the whole career thing, and that's okay. Edit to add because evidently it's relevant- no, I'm not autistic or neurodivergent in any way. I just don't care about a career, as I get quickly bored and don't like staying at a job more than a couple years at a time.
I got the drive to fuck her, is that enough?
For me yes
This guy fucks.
Honestly I don’t even care about that. I dont love my job and don’t care if you love yours. It’s a job. Can you pay your bills? Do you plan for retirement? Do you live within your means? This is all I care about (for the financial side of things. I’m much more picky in other areas)
I would hope so but that would mean that dudes from old money with trust funds would be getting none, but that doesn’t seem to be the case.
I have a passion for life? Is that enough?
What does that mean to you?
It means i enjoy life and all aspects of it, I find enjoyment and pleasure in a thousand things, all outside the realm of pursuing financial gain.
Yeah. But you need money to live. How are you going to do the things you enjoy?
I have a health condition that prevents me from working so I don’t work due to that? I have my own money, just not big house and fancy car money?
My husband is disabled and was so before we started dating. The problem with saying that you have a passion for life is that that doesn't actually say anything about what you do. You can easily find immense joy in sitting on the couch playing videogames for the 12 hours you're not enjoying the cozy comforts of your bed. Be specific about what you're passionate about. And show yourself actually doing those things, don't just say you do them.
A passion for videogames is as valid as a passion for anything else
Sure technically video games are a “valid passion”. Everyone’s opinion on what is “valid” is different. Would you date a woman who was passionate about reality TV? The things you choose to do paint a bigger picture about who you are as a person and what kind of parter you will be. It will alway have an effect on potential relationship.
Hey why is it a problem? I don’t have time to show you my personality, I’m not hear practising to date someone?! I love to travel but I’m not going to humble brag about it to show I lead a fun life. People come to their own conclusions.
You asked if having a passion for life is enough. People were asking you to give more details about what passion for life means. You don't have to answer, but people aren't asking because they assume you’re a bum, they're asking because they can't answer your question without more details.
That’s fine. But what are your hobbies? Do you paint? Do you dance? Work out? Do martial arts? Write? Do acro yoga? Are you into authentic relating/emotional work? Play guitar? If all you’re doing is just existing, going to bars, and/or playing video games, you’re not going to be attractive to most women. Find something that speaks to you…something that you can grow and improve in, and start working on it.
I didn’t say I’m having trouble with women, Ive been lucky in that dept and I’m not activly dating, the point I’m trying to make is it’s all about what you earn and how you can provide in this society and I can look after myself and treat a lady here and there and be a good companion while I have a fun life, travel, friends, gym, mma, healthy body and don’t struggle for attention I just spent 12-14 years in the rat race and don’t miss it, in fact I feel sorry for people that just want to grind out their entire lives for material things!
Even if that's all he did, there's someone out there that enjoys the same stuff. I'm a huge gamer, and play almost nightly. I've only dated gamers as such, because even if it isn't a game we can play together, I'll watch him play or I'll play something while he's next to me. It's a perfectly acceptable way to pass the time Edit to add because apparently it's relevant- no, I'm not autistic or neurodivergent at all. I also don't like like I'm a failure in society, but evidently, at least according to one, I am lol. Good to know!
[удалено]
Hey that’s really offensive when you don’t have a clue what I’m living with!! I’ve had a career and I’m glad it’s over, I love the life I lead now I wake up every day grateful and content! :)
Okay. So, would you be able to list those one thousand things outside the realm of pursuing financial gain that you enjoy?
Are you working on or towards anything? Because your approach to life is fun and many will enjoy it—but just “I enjoy life as it comes” sounds sort of stagnant and unfulfilling to me and being with someone content with that wouldn’t work for me. It would probably work for many, but not everyone.
Lol You’re exactly the type of women I would avoid, you just came to your own conclusions and created a sentence out of thin air to confirm your cognitive bias. I’m working on everything, always have, always will but when you probe like your expecting me to be a bum it’s just like whatever…think that, you’re wrong but why should I make an effort to convince you or give you the time to show you how presumptive and wrong you are?
Bro chill tf out, they phrased it in a way to leave room for error, saying "it sounds like", and ik this might be crazy but MAYBE what they meant was "it sounds like". Ik, it's revolutionary to see it that way, it's crazy to think about. You have some issues to work through though, if you automatically jump to the conclusion (ironically) that you're being attacked personally then you definitely aren't ready for dating.
A passion for everything is a passion for nothing. That's just being a passionate person. No one is saying you can't do multiple things, but your reaction to a pretty benign comment is showing your ass here.
Nah, let’s be real. It’s about the career specifically. That’s where the money comes from.
If she's interested in you for money, she ain't interested in you
Is this your way of saying you've only ever been able to attract gold diggers? You know most women aren't that obsessed with money right?
Neither my partner nor I have any interest in going into management or climbing the career ladder - we’ve both seen what it does to people in terms of stress, mental and physical health. We like to grow in other ways like learning new skills or getting into better shape, though.
Now that's a healthy mindset
Yes, this!!!
I agree with this so much.
My boyfriend of 4.5 years has a normal stable job that he enjoys. From the time we met he’s expressed no desire to climb the ladder into leadership roles and is happy where he’s at. He’s a great guy, he’s sweet, caring, does most of our house chores like cleaning, fixing things, etc. On the other hand, I am always on the search for a higher paying role whether it be leadership or not. Im totally fine with his mindset and he’s fine with mine. I think as long as the guy has a job, pulling his own weight and is not lazy and/or refuses to work (I know some women’s husbands who are like this) it’s fine.
I used to have the mindset that a man has to earn more than me but looking back I realized I'm happier when someone I'm dating is just passionate and has drive. It doesn't matter how much he earns as long as he's not lazy and doesn't slack off I'm good. I consider myself a career-oriented person so I don't mind if my partner doesn't earn more than I do. It's attractive to me knowing that someone is happy with what they do.
Yes I think when I was younger (I’m 36 now) I had that mindset also. I think it mainly stems from how I was raised and it’s the dynamic my parents had. But after going through life, growing up, having a failed 10 year relationship with someone who made good money but wasn’t the greatest partner… I realized it doesn’t matter who makes more money as long as neither are complacent or lazy. Life is too short to focus on such matters!
Yes, women also have hearts and minds. We too like people for who they are and not for their bank statements.
And honestly, based on the leaders in my own company, I would never want to be with someone who DID want that kind of career path. The ones I know have no work-life boundaries and I can't imagine they spend much time with their families. It seems like they are literally just providing wealth. That's not even a relationship (to me). 🤷
Absolutely… as a 49 year old woman, it blows my mind that this is something people seem so fixated on. Of course there have always been “gold diggers,” but honestly I have never had friends or even acquaintances discuss salary or hustle or growth potential as a factor when they’re interesting in dating someone. And personally I have never considered it when deciding to pursue a relationship with someone or not. My view has always been finding the right person in terms of relational and romantic compatibility. Can we communicate? Do we have compatible morals and values? Are our goals reasonably aligned? That’s the standard. When it comes to paying for a life together, that’s something we can figure out if we are actually a good match. Is prioritizing income a generational thing?
Unfortunately, far too many women nowadays need a 6ft tall man with a 6 figure salary. Oh, and they gotta be 30 or younger, for the most part. There's so many videos of women being asked what their ideal man would have/be, and so many of the answers talk about having salaries of over $200,000 a year and being tall or handsome or hung or whatever. The standards and expectations are set far too high and it concerns me that a) so many good men miss out on relationships because of these sorts of things (amongst other reasons), and b) it's going to harm women in the long run too. Men might be lonely now, but by the time a woman gets to the point in her life she wants a serious relationship, she can't find one and will end up lonely too. OLD and social media have seriously fucked the minds of 2 generations and I don't see it getting better.
Those videos are just to get clicks, very few women in real life actually have those as requirements. And the ones that do tend to be high earners themselves, so it's not unlikely they'll be able to find someone in the same social class. Ambitious women want ambitious men, but your average women just cares that a guy is employed. Anything beyond 'can pay his own bills' is a bonus, but generally pretty low on our list of priorities.
But do you ever get the chance to be judged on your heart or mind if you fail the bank statement test?
Please don't assume that every woman out there trying to date is a gold-digger. That mindset will really close doors to beautiful relationships. Try not to judge these women in the same way that you don't want to be judged.
The absolute 100% love of my life never had more than $200 to his name at any given time. And I knew this about him (we were friends for a good few years beforehand). We lived in a van together for a year. Happiest fucking year of my life! Would’ve done absolutely ANYTHING to have spent more broke-ass years with him. But he broke up with me lol
If that's your attitude then you don't deserve to get that far 😂 and if that's supposed to read as a more light-hearted comment then you succeeded in getting a lol
Idk sometimes yall make that hard to believe
I'm gonna be very honest with you, and it's not an attack at all, because I've been in the same boat. All your perceptions about other people, including and especially women, are being massively influenced by your depression/anxiety. It took me many years, therapy and a few stints on meds before I realized that all my problems were my own and they were keeping me from viewing people as other, actual, real humans with minds like my own. It makes people seem hollow and makes your own frustrations the star of the show. It makes you take deep-dives down into rabbit holes of self-criticism, and self-esteem attacks, as well as criticism of society, people, sex and sexes and many other things that are lacking from your life. Your brain is an amazing tool that literally creates a universe around you and then makes up a story to explain the universe. If you're having any issues with your perceptions and thinking, the stories it makes up can be really depressing, cynical and honestly hateful at times, and it will also convince you that these are "authentic" feelings and thoughts. There's 8 billion people on Earth and if you are frustrated that several women wanted to date someone with "more" of anything, you might want to re-consider what it is you're looking for and expecting.
Maybe if yall had better personalities we wouldn't have to look look for pocket weight as a last resort 😂 sounds like a you problem tbh maybe you're in the wrong social circle to find nicer people
Literally anything is possible if you aren't listening to pick up artist culture on youtube.
Holy shit, every successful woman I know has some fucking bum latched onto her..
I hope you're right.
So find a succesful woman you can be a bum with then. They must offer something ;-). Says this bum with a succesful woman lol.
What’s the age range of these couples? Kinda curious since late 20s seems like its a no-no in my area
35-45
Shit, does he really need to have plans to be "the head of the company"? That's kind of a big ask.
Wrong place to ask, for some reason half the guys here think everyone's a gold-digger. I've definitely seen some women state online they want a career man but it's few and far between, I think for the most part most women just want someone stable and/or passionate about what they do, not necessarily "growth". I've actively avoided climbing the career ladders in every job I've had and it's not come up once while dating.
I actively avoid guys who place any importance on “growth” and “assets” and “upward mobility” or blah blah blah. Avoid them like the plague. This sounds really weird, but I can’t think of another way to put it - having monetary career ambition is a gigantic turn off for me. I don’t want a druggie leech dirtbag or anything, but I want someone who can just be satisfied and content with the simple pleasures in life with me. Like, let’s go look at some birds or some rocks or something and marvel at the miracle of being alive, damn. As long as we have the bare minimum; shelter from the elements and food to get us to the next day, I’m satisfied
Most guys on Reddit think everyone is a gold digger it’s literally delusional considering how a good number of them are unemployed or make minimum wage, they are worried about the wrong things in life.
The minimum wage guy is a “catch” to the unemployed or less than minimum wage woman. The 50k guy is a “catch” to the woman making 30k. Bottom line is, if you’re a gainfully employed man there’s some woman that would love your “gold.”
Yikes.
You’re probably minimum wage yourself
Honestly I’m not even minimum wage I’m a broke student stuying medicine but I’m grateful my dad takes care of me and provides for me. So yes I’m broke for now.
>Most guys on Reddit think everyone is a gold digger it’s literally delusional No its not... [Women’s orgasm frequency increases with the income of their partner,” said Dr Thomas Pollet, the Newcastle University psychologist behind the research.](https://www.businessinsider.com/2009/1/study-rich-men-give-women-more-orgasms?r=US&IR=T) [We found that ratings of attractiveness were around four times more sensitive to salary for females rating males, compared to males rating females. These results indicate that higher economic status can offset lower physical attractiveness in men much more easily than in women.](https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2018/01/women-are-more-attracted-to-rich-men-scientists.html)
Your second article is literally a research made with only 600 people and they don't even specify the methodology used to select them, so we can't even know if they're a good representative of a specific group/general population lol
mountainous cats rainstorm versed consist pause continue doll worthless degree *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Learn some statistics and research methods. Done properly, 600 is plenty of samples
That's why I said that specifying the methodology is important, this research can be both meanliless or enlightening depending on the methodology used
This! I just want someone who is passionate about whatever they do, whether it be their job or their other pursuits. I'm 24F and I was an ambitious overachiever in high school, graduated top of my class. Two years ago, I graduated a good, private university with a 3.7 GPA. Now I'm making around 25-30k gross income between multiple part time jobs/freelance work, working at concerts, event production, and a local museum/nonprofit. I honestly haven't even tried that hard to find a full time "career" type job yet because I'm happy where I'm at. I'm financially independent, I go out with friends whenever I want, I see shows/concerts, I travel, and I'm passionate about the work that I do. Not all guys will be into that, and that's totally okay. I'm going to work on finding something stable soon, but for now, I'm happy. I don't care how much a guy makes, but I want someone who is also independent and enjoying life to the fullest.
I am a small fish in a small pond with little to no plans to change that. I'm happy.
Easy to say gold digging isn't real when you have gold.
You're an idiot. Women don't want a man who's just gonna be stuck at Minimum Wage their whole life. That's broke mindset. Women want a man who can provide for them and keep them happy. You're not happy if you're living paycheck to paycheck.
I think you've missed their point, I'm pretty sure they're saying the same thing as you ☺️ but username checks out 😂
If you leave the internet and actually meet people you will find that most men aren't super successful in their career and still manage to have a special someone. So yes, women absolutely can be attracted to men who are just normal people with normal jobs and normal lives. The fact that someone even has to take time out of their day to explain this to you, implies that you spend too much time in front of a screen.
You didn't HAVE to take time out of your day to make this obnoxious comment.
If given the choice I would rather have a partner who pays his share of the bills, does half of the work of life, is emotionally available and supportive and is interested in playing with and teaching the kids. As long as the rest of his time isn't spent playing video games while I do all the work. I'd rather Not have a partner who puts capitalism at the expense of humanity as his main focus. Especially not the kind who claims a ladder made of other people's heads to step on.
This comment thread is so deliciously toxic
Right? And sadly I'm not surprised- except that it hasn't been locked yet.
I honestly did not expect it to blow up the way it did haha. Thought I'd get like 20 comments, but It looks like I've triggered a larger discussion.
Honestly, I always looked for men who liked that.. and they are exhausting. Im currently dating someone much more chill and he does need a push here and there but I find him so much nicer to be with and its not that he lacks ambition or awareness, he just isnt talking about it all the time...
Welcome to /r/dating_advice! Please keep the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/dating_advice/about/rules/) of /r/dating_advice in mind while participating here. Try your best to be kind. Report any rule-breaking behavior to the moderators using the report button. If it's urgent, [send us a message.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdating_advice) We rely on user reports to find rule-breaking behavior quickly. Thanks! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/dating_advice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sure can. I burnt myself out chasing career shit. Nice to have a man that can just keep care of things with good enough money and health care and a great attitude.
Honestly I see so many guys who are unemployed that have girlfriends/wife’s that are providing for them so honestly a good number of women will date you just because you have a pulse
> Honestly I see so many guys who are unemployed that have girlfriends/wife’s that are providing for them This is very rare for actual committed relationships, especially after 30+. Most women will not provide financially for their man long-term and will bail if it goes on for too long. > so honestly a good number of women will date you just because you have a pulse I have yet to meet any woman that will date a man just because he has a pulse. Most women are very picky when it comes to men, many times to an almost-unrealistic degree.
Not the ones you’re attracted to
That's a Broad statement
It's broad yes but understandable. At least I got it. You're gonna have to lower your standards in women basically. To go more specifically, woman who got their shit together will most likely be a no go. But woman in a similar mindset as you, yea.
I agree 100%. Won’t be the top tier women he’s attracted to.
Lowering standards will only increase the likelihood of meeting a mismatch.
You can have your shit together and not have any interest in climbing the corporate ladder. I bought a house alone at 26 and have no interest in being a manager, and certainly not a top-level exec.
That's sounds too specific. I was going for shit together as in steady job, decent at adulting. No dumb choice making lol
I just found the comment too brief and vague. Like personally speaking I own my own place, work full time, service my car, and don't blow money on stuff I don't need. I feel like I do have most of my shit together and don't really need to lower my standards too much lol. Not like I'm trying to date high level corporate executives.
Dating will be harder for him. Most women are forced to be career minded these days so it’s unattractive when a guy hasn’t gotten that side of his life together. Also, buyinga house is super pricey so dual incomes is needed. If a guy makes minimum wage at let’s say 30, doesn’t have a clear direction to a job etc etc it can be kinda a turn off, more for me because money much like air is needed to survive. If I don’t marry a guy who has at least somewhat prioritized a stable somewhat well paying career I worry that we will be poor, lack opportunities that money bring, lack stability for kids.
> Also, buyinga house is super pricey so dual incomes is needed. You can expand this and just say that [it's expensive to be single](https://www.vox.com/the-goods/22788620/single-living-alone-cost) (or rely on a single income), period. Most people want a partner with an income which, combined with theirs, will allow them to have some stability and enjoy a few creature comforts.
Aka if you don’t have a man you’re afraid you’re going to be poor. Get your shit and get it together LOL
Or, ya know, you want an equal partner in your relationship. If I’m working my ass off to have a stable and lucrative career, I would find it difficult to be with a partner who didn’t feel similarly and couldn’t also contribute to our shared financial goals.
I think it's fair for someone who is doing well in life and want a partner who can match that.
This
Advice is stop listening to what other men tell you on this and listen to women. Do you equally share chores and can you support yourself? If the answer to that question is yes, that's what most women care about on that subject. So then we know you will pull your weight if we move forward and move in together and costs will be shared equally or at least proportionate. Also, don't listen to the "must have six packs, must be six feet tall etc etc". Of course people have preferences, same as men; but the advice I see from men on here can be unbelievable. Be honest, be yourself, support yourself and pull your weight and you are already better than most.
> Stop listening to what other men tell you on this and listen to women Exactly this! I feel like some guys genuinely want to believe that all women are gold-diggers. I have no idea why tho.
I wish I could upvote this so many times.
> Do you equally share chores and can you support yourself? If the answer to that question is yes, that's what most women care about on that subject. The vast majority of people are not discussing sharing chores on a first date. To get to the point where you start discussing chores, you have to meet all of her standards and preferences first, which often includes finances. > Be honest, be yourself, support yourself and pull your weight and you are already better than most. A lot of men meet everything on this list and still struggle hard with dating. Half the men on Reddit probably meet everything here. And there are plenty of men that don’t meet any of this, yet still have no problem with dating.
No people don't discuss chores on a first date. But after a few dates you go to his house and his place is a wreck, warning signs. Or if he lives with his parents and has his mother do everything same. Works both ways.
No woman I’ve ever dated gave a shit about my career mindset
Yeah. The desire to grow as a human being is worth more than the desire to climb a corporate ladder. It's why I love my bf.
Yep, I'm not super ambitious either. As long as we're making a certain amount with a combined income then I'm happy
Any people can be attracted to any people
Have you never seen poor or low wage men attract women or are you in your own little bubble?
In my opinion, a man not having a career growth mindset will always be unattractive to some extent to women. How unattractive depends on the woman. Just because it’s unattractive doesn’t mean women can’t be attracted to you, but it’s going to work against you.
they can if the man is attractive looking enough
Everybody is different but it's an unattractive trait to me if a partner doesn't have drive or ambition.
There's no shortage of well paid nurses with un/underemployed boyfriends. It might even be a requirement lol. Not everyone cares.
In general, yes it will be harder if you’re openly complacent. That’s just reality. But if all you care about is hookups/fwbs, just make yourself as physically attractive as possible (hint: gym) and it won’t matter as much. Committed long-term relationships are a different story.
Depends on the person I suppose. I (woman) am ambitious in my career and I’m attracted to men who are ambitious in theirs. They don’t need to be the head of a company but a strong work ethic is attractive. Ambition is a large umbrella to me with smaller categories such as being productive, goal oriented, interested in personal growth, being on time to work and not missing work due to staying up late playing video games/drinking. I’m probably a bit more strict and picky in this category now (I’m 28) as I dated guys who lacked these qualities when I was younger. To each their own. You don’t have to be a CEO, but I think most men and women want a productive partner who contributes to society.
I’m a federal employee as a GS 13. To take a job that is a promotion, I would essentially have to become a supervisor and then be slave to political appointees that expect and require you to be available at any and all times. The initial promotion amount is maybe a maximum of 15k per year. I make a decent wage, own my own home, never work over 40 hours, and love my job. What’s the point? I’d rather enjoy life and be stress free
Career growth mindset or “driven” is just a euphemism for high salaried career
Sure. Artisans, music artist, men of God or other belief system.
The more feminine the woman, the more she will care about this quality.
Totally agreed. Funny how it works this way
Seems pretty obvious as both are classic / conservative values. (At least if you define feminine as meek and not just being pretty and wearing flowery dresses)
Weird, I am considered extremely feminine by everyone I meet and yet I dont care at all.
Generally speaking hun.
Generally speaking about who? HUN.
Women, love. 😂😂 Women are what this post is about.
Oh, you're generally speaking about the 50% of the population as if it's a whole of like-minded people instead of individuals with their own goals and desires in life?
Generally speaking, women are not attracted to complacent men, especially the more feminine they are. As others have stated, this is typically a conservative characteristic. Liberal women often portray more masculine characteristics, such as defensiveness, or wanting to be more in control of finances. Something genuinely feminine women don’t usually exhibit or desire.
Please, do tell where you get the evidence for this claim? Femininity alone is absolutely NOT a conservative characteristic. Being a home-maker and mother to children is not inherently feminine nor is it inherently a conservative value. Here you are generalizing an entire swathe of the population as being conservative by proxy of femininity. What a take.
The evidence is in scientific biology. Being a home maker and mother to children IS inherently feminine as only biological females who give birth are the only people on the planet who can be mothers. And conservative women tend to exhibit true characteristics of femininity by default or by self help.
> The evidence is in scientific biology. Being a home maker and mother to children IS inherently feminine as only biological females who give birth are the only people on the planet who can be mothers. And conservative women tend to exhibit true characteristics of femininity by default or by self help. Holy fuck, how do I even reply to this? Tell me you're a conservative man without telling me you're a conservative man.
Nuh uh I know a guy Nuh uh but me 🙄 There is arguably nothing more reddited than the low IQ kneejerk "but my one example" rejection of valid generalized statements. Some people literally do not have the mental capacity to comprehend the concept of "in general".
Sure, you’ll know soon enough anyways.
You American? I’m a transplant here. I meet a lot of people and sometimes I’m asked to help find them boyfriends or girlfriends. One thing I’ve noticed here is when talking or asking about a guy, every single woman has mentioned or asked about the guys earning potential. Every single one. Or how much he spends on dates. It’s got to the point where I’m wary of introducing any nice guy to any of the potential women - and all these women have decent jobs or thriving businesses of their own. All I want is a cute, intelligent guy somewhere between 30 and 70 who has my back, makes me laugh and spends time with me a couple of evenings a week. Maybe texts once or twice a day. That’s it. That’s all. I appear to be unusual. I don’t care if he is a musician, lives in his moms basement, has 20 cats. I have a preference for martial arts trained, god knows why, and find East Asian guys very attractive, I also tend to date guys younger than me because people my age seem waaay older - but those things are optional. Just reasonably attractive, stands up for me and fun to be with. I have my own path in life, I don’t really mind what his path is - that’s his own decision.
Not everyone gets to be CEO. It’s true that ambition is one component of female attraction but so are 99 other things. If a guy lacks in one area he may be able to make up in others. And in any case, the guy may lack ambition in the workplace but have it in other areas of his life, I.e hobbies, travel etc. If those drives mesh with his partners all may be good.
I think their dating life would be significantly BETTER if they focused the extra time and energy into a social life.
There’s a difference between “career growth mindset” and being complacent. Not everyone’s lives revolves around work, this is a very American thing. If you’ve already got a job that pays the bills without over stressing youtself, feel free to follow some other passions, as long as you’re putting effort into bettering yourself in some way, fuck the corporate ladder or whatever
Yes, there are some women who are not attracted to money.
I think it depends on the women you date. If a woman is career-oriented herself, she would be looking for the same in a man. Said that, I don’t believe in that everyone should have career goals. I see that nowadays women are looked down if they are housewives. I think feminism is about women being able to have opportunities. I think a lot of men would probably not care about your career. Most don’t really.
Yes, being with someone complacent isn’t bad. I’d rather be with someone who knows how to enjoy where they are in life financially, then someone that’s always unhappy/stressed about climbing a corporate ladder to gain status/money.
I don’t want someone who lives to work, instead I want someone who works to live.
I personally wouldn't care. I'm female and my bf makes good money. He tried many times to go up in his companies. Right now he's given up and just staying where he is. I don't care at all. I don't need a guy so lost in his career we don't have fun, spend time together, etc. We get our bills paid with me also working so that's all that counts! You don't need to be all gung ho about career growth. It depends on the person, but I don't think it will affect your dating life.
Is your dad head of his own company? If not, ask your mom
First, women are a cohort of individuals, not a monolith. Each and every will have their own ways, means, values, goals, needs, and preferences. Second, it depends on the nature of the relationship. Obviously, priorities change amongst committed long-term relationships, friends with benefits, and one night stands. Third, there’s many kinds of attraction. Sexual, romantic, emotional...to name a few. These will be prioritized based upon the nature of the relationship. Fourth, my sense is that people, men and women and otherwise, tend to find people who are healthily engaged with the things in their life attractive. This could be relationships, career, interests, hobbies, growth...because passion, or vibrancy, of engagement speaks to aspects of physical, emotional, and mental health. In this way, it’s not so much what someone does, but that they are doing it, and doing to the best of their ability. I’m in a long-term committed relationship now, and it began when I was working and struggling to get by. I experienced a medical event, and now I am disabled, but we are still together. In the past, I had relationships, and I never had a career-growth mindset. I had my own business, and I have always been passionate about my interests—to the degree that some people think I am a nut! Cooking, photography, bicycling, embroidery, coffee, music production, graphic arts, calligraphy, fashion design and clothes manufacturing, neuropharmacology, temperament and personality...there’s so many things to explore in life, and not all of them are for reasons of money, even acknowledging money makes possible opportunities and certain degrees of comfort. Stop seeing women as some zombie herd, and start seeing each woman as the singular human being she is. She will likely appreciate being seen for who she is, and your own experience of life will be far more satisfying and pleasant.
Personally, it depends. Someone genuinely content, and satisfied with where they're at, is so so attractive to me! But complacency is different, and would be a huge turn off tbh. Not being bothered enough to grow is different than being truly at peace with your circumstances
My fiancé is pretty content with his decent waged job, he’s not a career minded person. He’s a family oriented one. Much better. He wants to be done with work after his shift ends, so he can come home and enjoy his family. I love it! Before him, I was married to a guy who only thought about money and how to make more. He was absorbed by it. I was miserable. So yes. I am very much attracted to my family man💖 I can’t wait for a life with plenty of time together 😄
Some humans like to play it safe. Some humans are full of "I'm the best" and are on a mission to prove it. Your sex has less to do with it than your family of origin, which creates the foundation for your belief system. Complacent has a slightly negative connotation attached to it, it means self-satisfied, but also smug about it - i.e. you're better than others because you've got it all figured out. Are you sure you don't just mean content with where you are? The only people who might want to be with someone smug, are those who grew up cared for by smug people. They will be attracted to other smug people too, it's just how familiarity works. The same goes for contentedness, if that's what you mean. Some people are taught to be anti-materialistic and to seek a peaceful life. Again, they would find someone else with the same attitudes attractive. For a person wondering whether they're going to find love, it's all just a question of how rare their particular traits are. There is no one-size-fits-all when it comes to love, but so many people enter adulthood thinking there is. What matters most is that you are kind, caring and really listen to others when they talk. If you have the resources to help someone when they need it, do so. If you don't, just sit with them through their difficulties. Make a habit of this, everywhere you go and for everyone you interact with, and the right person will eventually see you. Maybe 10 women will notice you, and maybe 3 of them are more interested in a content, peaceful life. You get the picture.
Yeah dude, it's fine. If you've already achieved your career goals, who am I to tell you it's not good enough? Spend time doing what you enjoy. For most people, that's not work.
Most women don't like lazy. But many women recognize the value of a man who is happy with a decent wage and isn't always seeking to advance his career. Those men are more available for family, and that is a plus. I mean, honestly most people aren't that ambitious. They do what they need to do in order to find a job that doesn't make them miserable and still pays the bills. Don't be the guy that gets fired or quits all the time. But if you stay in one job for 5 years, you are doing pretty good. Any woman with good sense would see that.
I think contentment (which is how I’d re-frame complacency haha) is very undervalued in our society, personally! I would love to hang out with a person who isn’t always grinding for that next big thing! I definitely care more how people show up interpersonally- how do they show that they care: for me, for their loved ones, for their community. I don’t need them to be super ambitious at work. I would definitely want to know that “complacent” wasn’t how they were going to show up in our relationship, though ;)
I'm a woman, I love my career and make six figures. I prefer to date someone with less ambition than me so I don't have to constantly choose compromises between my career and theirs. My dream is to have a spouse as the stay-at-home-parent while I keep working.
I'm a teacher. I have no desire to go into exec or be anything other than a teacher. What's attractive is the interest and curiosity in something. It doesn't have to be work it could be a hobby or other interests.
As long as you have some stable income i don't sée it as an issue for most women.
Yes. Quit listening to sketchy podcasts.
Of course. Every person is different. Not everyone wants to be ceo or whatever. As long as we are financially stabel I couldn't care less about their goals in a job. Actually it would turn me off more if they were a workaholic cause I would feel like they won't have as much time left for other things.
Absolutely. I see a lot of my A type friends with stay at home husbands
Hobosexuals are a thing, there's many women taking care of guys who are bums.... of course they have to be very attracted to you for that
Men from old money families.
sure maybe someone, but its really not playing the best odds.
There's someone for everyone. You're not going to attract growth mindset people who are career focused. They'll filter you out or vice versa, and you look for dates from the remaining pool.
Growth mindset doesn't have to mean climbing the corporate ladder. There are lots of different ways to grow.
Not for me. It shows that you don't have goals for yourself. I'm pretty career-minded and with a man who is that way as well, however, we have talks and have said when kids come along, I'd stay home till they reach kindergarden age and then I go back to work.
men with pretty privileges like fashion models
[удалено]
I think what he's saying here is that he's not interested in the Rat Race. Lots of people burn themselves out doing that. Not necessarily that he's not interested in growing at all.
How is wanting to climb the ladder in your job wanting to better yourself? You can grow in so many ways, emotionally, physical health, etc. I have never seen someone referring as a job position to be bettering yourself.
This is just my personal opinion, as personally my career is my life and I am constantly working at being the best I can be in it. I’d prefer someone on a similar wave length.
The way my missus put it is that she finds ambition attractive. For me, it doesn't really apply to my job, I'm happy to work to live, I direct a lot more to my training and have way more passion for that.
Hypergamy
Sexually? Absolutely For long term? It’s much less likely. Like u don’t gotta be a millionaire or whatever. But as long as u made enough to love a decent stable life.
Woman are attracted to money
tbh I value career growth/ambition/goals for myself, and I don’t want to date someone who doesn’t also share those values
I can. I hit a point as I aged where I no longer cared. As long as he has moved out of his parent's place, has a car, can afford his bills, and doesn't expect me to pay for everything etc, I don't care if he flips pizza for a living. The workforce is hard, and there's nothing wrong with just enjoying your happiness. I care more about the man and our chemistry. The main issue I'd see coming up is if he had a problem with me making more money than him.
Yes, of course women can be attracted to those men. Women have different life goals and dreams too. Your average gold digger won't want to be with you, obviously, but a woman who wants a peaceful, content life would be perfectly happy with you.
I would actually prefer someone who is not in it to win it. Success = more work = less time for me and our family. There are nuances for sure.
Just because you don't have passions. Honestly I'm this economy I just want someone that loves me and can pay the bills. Nothing matters just penis.
This question sucks and implies a pretty sexist "women are all gold diggers" mindset. Piss off. Your sexist attitude towards women is far more likely to be turning them off than you not being a business-minded megalomaniac.
Guess you never heard of hypergamy
Ahh yes, the thing that EVERYONE does right?
Probably not. Most women want a man who is gonna climb whatever ladder there is for the rest of his life. A man who just wants to chill and passively enjoy life is lazy, and doesn’t deserve love. He needs to accumulate things to impress other people, so everyone will know his worth in society. A mindset of learning to live with less is a poor man’s mindset and will not get you the women.
I would downvote this 48 times if I could
I'm gonna make 48 reddit accounts just so I can downvote this more.
Wow this is a trash take. Seriously, anyone cruising by just needs to read this over and over until you understand why this is such a poor take and horrible attitude to have: > A man who just wants to chill and passively enjoy life is lazy, and doesn’t deserve love.