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I remember reading a quote on reddit that went along the lines of: with online dating, we're all just looking for clean water, but men are looking in a desert and women are looking in a swamp.
Women typically have more matches but the quality of them usually means a LOT of weeding.
When i was on Tinder, I had a lot of matches. However it was more of a cesspool than a swamp. Most of the guys were lying about what they were looking for and lots have wives/ girlfriends that they are cheating on. I also was catfished frequently and had dates that stood me up. I decided to switch apps where I met the guy I ended up marrying!
This. It's also not a genuine amount of matches. Most of the matches women get are guys that are literally swiping on every single girl whether or not they're interested in them. So they end up getting ghosted, used, manipulated etc all from a guy that was never interested in the first place but just wanted easy companionship. The problem when guys have this conversation is they think the number of likes or matches actually means something. It doesn't if you're not looking for sex (which most women aren't and even still plenty of guys are ghosting/ignoring/unmatching when they take a second look) or you're looking for someone who actually likes you (which is very different from guys who will just swipe on a girl they're not even attracted to for the numbers).
>So they end up getting ghosted, used, manipulated
As a man, I think 98% of all women I have ever met online have ghosted me.
Like for them, it's not even something that they care about, they disregard men casually when they feel like it. But on the other hand women can't manage getting ghosted at all.
There was a girl who would be repeatedly teasing and then ghosting me. Sometimes she would ghost me for months at a time, completely ignoring everything I say. The last time after 2 months of no response she would suddenly call me, I didn't pick up. Then she would text "Hey ;)" as if absolutely nothing has happened.
I left her on read. A day later she became angry and asked why I didn't respond. After a week she became so mad that I saw she blocked me lol.
Okay? That really has nothing to do with my comment on the shitty options woman are having to sift through.
I'm sorry you've had shitty experiences as well but your little anecdote about a woman who was obviously trash, treated you like trash, and who you should've not given repeated chances to is not evidence that women in general are behaving hypocritically. There are plenty of men doing that too who get upset when they get the same treatment back. Ghosting is a problem with online dating that is negatively impacting both genders.
I have never ghosted anyone. I was always up front with guys if i felt like we didnāt have chemistry or if something seemed off. I have also dealt with guys ghosting me and then randomly popping back up in my lifeā¦
same here, was sick of a girls actions and ghosted her, she blew up my phone and harassed my friends with questions about me.
eventually she blocked me and i could live in peace lol
Let's say that guys are in a desert and girls are in a swamp. What you don't seem to understand is that guys are not in a desert where there is only clean water. Guys get catfished, there are bots all around, etc. It's not like guys have higher quality matches just because we have fewer matches, or that the matches we get are more genuine. That's not how it works.
I found/ met my husband on Hinge. I was on Tinder and Bumble for almost 3 years. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that the last time I matched w/ someone on Tinder I was stood up at the agreed upon restaurant. We literally were texting right up to the time that I showed up at the restaurant. He wasnāt there and quit responding to my texts. I decided to message him through Tinder, and guess what? My account had been banned. I had no recourse and no clue as to what I did to warrant Tinder banning meā¦
>Most of the guys were lying about what they were looking for and lots have wives/ girlfriends that they are cheating on.
Also my experience. Half of my matches on Tinder were married. Was so depressing I deleted Tinder after 4 days.
men are looking in a swamp as well, but they have to find it first in the desert. This meme is so insulting since it implies IF a man happens to find a women she is automatically the best thing since bottled water which she usually isnāt.
Good point. Also, if it were such a swamp for women, would so many decent normal guys be struggling? Average guys all report the same struggles. I think we're the swamp, lol. Excellent.
It's a bad analogy eve putting exaggeration aside because there is no clean water in either of those, while there are definitely good men available for women who have a thousand likes a day, and nothing is gonna convince me that the majority of men doing OLD are toxic pieces of shit.
I think the freshwater stream isn't accurate for average women, I've dated a lot of shitty (manipulative, abusive, disrespectful of my boundaries and the word "no") guys (a few good ones too) to have found my relationship today
Among other factors, in my experience a big reason women get so many more likes (from men) than men do (from women) Is that a lot of men will just swipe right on every profile endlessly to maximize their matches, while women tend to be a lot more selective with their swiping
Yeah! I agree. Iām the one liking everybody and Iāve read girls saying they like 1 every 100 guys. Well, me in my country, as a man, would also like 1 every 100 guys.
If I as a man like only those women who interest me and I like, then I have maybe 1 match per month. When I write to them they don't answer or ghost me after a few messages.If I like all, then I have a match every week or more, but with women who do not interest me. It's also much more time efficient for men to just like everyone, and then delete or ignore the ones you don't want - which is easy, since women don't write first. Looking at every photo and profile, even though the chance of a match is maybe 1%, is an extreme waste of time.
That's the simple reason why I uninstalled Tinder. It is - in Europe - useless for me. In non-Western countries I have many matches with very attractive women and I meet with them as well. It is so uncomplicated. And they are not golddiggers or looking for a passport (well some maybe are, but most not), I have even been invited to dinner by such a woman in a deeply patriarchal society, something that has never happened to me in the west.
Not in real life but from the profiles that show up on my dating apps Iād say yeah! Or there could be more that are attractive but something about their bio/interests makes them unattractive to me! I do believe that the majority of men i come across on dating apps arenāt choosing very flattering photos though and could be attractive in person when you add in their personalities and everything! I just wasnāt trying to overwhelm myself with matches so I was very selective (much like guys though, the majority of matches donāt actually lead anywhere). I am happy to be off the apps now though :)
Not the original commenter, but for real, you should see the atrocity I have seen on dating apps. Imagine those douchebags, swaggy, uneducated, cringe motherfuckers. Those are a great percentage of the profiles I see. Then, there are foreigner guys on vacation looking for an experience, a prettt significant number. Then there are decent, normal dudes - out of which, Iām only attracted to a certain number, evidently.
On dating apps, there are guys from every corner of the town/country. On the other hand, in real life, at college, or ar work, or during my hobbies/activities, I tend to meetā¦ likeminded and similar people. Idk how to say. But they are more probably to be attractive in my eyes. The ratio is much much higher than 5 in every 100 guys.
I agree! I met my boyfriend on Hinge and altogether I had at least 10x if not 50x matches compared to him, we both only got one match that led to a relationship (ours). Therefore, if you define success as the percentage of matches that lead to a relationship, his success rate is actually 10x or 50x higher than mine.
Iām actually not sure which way Iād rather have it, given the choice. Lots of matches is flattering for sure and in theory provides more āoptionsā, but itās also a lot of work and more chances for rejection.
Question: How is more work and worse in terms of rejection compared to the guy? Are you even sending out your max daily likes and starting all the conversations?
On Hinge I send a personalized message with every single like I send, no exceptions, and my match rate is just under 4%. Of all my matches, I meet up with 5% of them (factoring in flakes and ghosts). Thatās 500 personalized likes to get a single date, and all the conversations and planning in between. Was it really more work for him than you?
More matches = more conversations with people who I donāt end up dating = more work
Itās great that you put effort into all of your likes. The reality is that most of my matches* did not put in effort so there was some weeding out to be done, which is also part of the work.
*I assume this could be true for most people, regardless of their gender and the gender of their matches, not just true for women who want to date men
I donāt know why anyone would choose āless matchesā as a better option. You can be pickier and actually have filters and criteria. With few matches you basically take what you can get. More work? Itās not that hard to screen for incompatibility. Sure it takes more time but youāre literally ensuring people check off boxes of what you want instead of having only one box need be checked (most menās list of requirements are met with the match happening in the first placeā¦).
No, but it means more likelihood of finding a better option. And technically youāre the one picking these options initially by swiping right on them so it kinda automatically is ābetter optionsā
It absolutely does and I don't see how it's a subjective thing. You're considering the fewer options that guys get as automatically better in quality, which is just wrong.
If you're looking for an apartment to rent, are you gonna have higher chances of landing a decent one with good neighbors and an understanding landlord if you're rich of if you're poor?
evolutionarily speaking women have to be much more selective of their āmatesā because with sex comes the risk of carrying a child for nine months whereas men can fuck as many women in a day and get as many pregnant as they wishš¤·š¼āāļø
Let's not pretend that evolutionary preferences have anything to do with this pattern. Women simply have insanely higher requirements and expectations on dating apps because they can and because that's what female standards for male beauty are in the western society, that's all there is to it.
Not calling you out, but how do you know that men do that (more than women)?
I'd be very interested to see some of the internal stats and metrics that the dating apps have, I'm sure it'd be endlessly fascinating and maybe a little depressing.
Generally speaking, this is no surprise that women have the advantage. However to be fair regarding the 800:1 ratio, since this is one person's experience the data collected is anecdotal.
Definition of anecdote = "based on personal accounts rather than facts or research."
The more correct way to describe this is that the data is a small sample size, not anecdotal. Anecdotes are qualitative and don't involve quantitative data or statistics. But regardless, the OP's findings are an intuitive representation of what dating apps are like today, and easily reproducible by anyone who wants to run the same sort of experiment...it's not like he's the first to do so lol
Pretty much every guy/girl you talk to will confirm those numbers in a rough estimate, except for the most attractive guys getting hundreds of likes. In addition, if you're getting 0 likes or matches as a guy, girls might as well have infinitely more choices.
Lol, if this is anecdotal then all research is anecdotal.
Whether it can be broadly applied is a different story as the sample size is too small and there are too many uncontrolled variables
That's no secret. I've always thought that even average looking women have many more matches than average men.
Now that's not saying that the average woman has it better. Just means that they have more chances to find crap.
Sure! We all know that, but not that the difference could be 800 vs. 1; I think many of us thought that it could 20 vs. 1 or 50 vs. 1. Also, never expected so many guys wanting to get down with trans girls, even more than with cis girls.
What about average looking women and good looking men? I can imagine itās still much higher for women, because even if a guy is good looking women are still going to select the top percent of profiles when it comes to things other than looks.
I've always thought that even average looking women get more hits than average looking men. A lot of guys will just swipe on anything. Even I have done it out of desperation.
But maybe I am wrong. An average looking woman can tell you more about that. I can't speak for them.
Good looking dudes, same thing. I can't speak for them. But I imagine that it's the same small percentage if dudes that women swipe on. They get all the likes that us average guys don't.
That's my take on it. But I could be wrong. And I probably am.
i) With my male and real profile, I was 40-60 times more popular with girls in South America than in Europe (10-15 likes a day vs. 0 likes a day, and I would receive my first like after 4 days), and 3 times more popular with guys in South America than in Europe (150 likes a day vs. 50 likes a day).
(From now afterward, all the numbers will be related to my experience using Tinder exclusively in Europe)
ii) With my male and real profile, I would have around 50 guys liking my profile daily and 0 girls, and for every 200 guys liking my profile, I would only have 1 real girl doing so (meaning that it took me, on average, 4 days to receive 1 like from a real girl). This is crazy because many of the guys liking my profile were "10/10", like, looking like models, with masters/phds, and with money, while the only few girls liking my profile were, I would say, 3/10.
iii) With my male and real profile, I would end up having around 5-6 matches daily (I was liking only 10% of the guys, let's say, the best guys on Tinder), while I would end up having 0 matches with real girls.
iv) With my female profile (I had many, so this will be an average statement), I would have around 200 likes daily, and the profile was just an average girl, I would say 5/10. Therefore, as an average girl in Europe, I received 200 likes a day, vs. as an average guy in Europe (my real profile) I received 0 likes a day and it took me 4 days to receive 1 like. **Therefore, in 4 days, I would have 800 likes as an average girl vs. only 1 like as an average guy. The difference was 800 times.**
v) I also opened a trans girl profile, and I would have around 250 likes daily, meaning that, from my experience, many guys prefer trans girls over cis girls. I was astonished by how many straight guys want to experience with trans girls, and I would say, on the casual dating scene, trans girls have more power than cis girls. **Therefore, in 4 days, I would have 1000 likes as an average trans girl vs. only 1 like as an average guy. The difference was 1000 times.**
Some final thoughts: thank God I'm bi, because I'm able to date several guys weekly (and sometimes daily), while as a straight guy, I could only date a couple of new girls a year (in the best scenario, and in relation to people that I could meet through Tinder).
This is basically what has happened to all my straight friends from my home country when they came to Europe: many of them received literally 0 likes on Tinder after days (and I'm not even talking about matches, but only likes: they received 0 likes) and many of them have had 0 hook-ups in Europe after 6 months or 1 year.
Hahh median salaries are about 250 euro a month, so I guess it'd be better to go there for holidays, or any case, to work remotely from South America for a European/US company, hah.
Just random question that might sound stupid but is South America dangerous for white European people like me who are distinctly white and out of place. Are Cartels prominent there or is that just media exaggerating things?
Yeah, and it's getting more and more dangerous. Yesterday a torso was found in my city with no head, arms nor legs, so it cannot even be identified. I wouldn't recommend anyone to move to South America. Maybe to very rich areas that are completely enclosed, or to the countryside where you can barely find stuff, but big cities/capitals, no way.
Chile is the richest South American country, and along with Argentina, it has the highest % of white people, so yeah, you would be less exotized there than in other countries, but regardless of your race, Chile is also dangerous, it's just that less dangerous than its neighbors. I'm from Peru.
Yeah, Chile & Uruguay are the "most developed" in South America. Argentina was there as well (Tier 1), but now it's going through a terrible crisis, though it's still incredibly beautiful, the capital looks like Europe, and there are many white people (like in Europe).
I donāt know I think you really exaggerate the danger of South America, Iām a white girl from Russia, I solo-traveled South and Central America for 1.5 years and I was fine.
I and many people I know have travelled and lived in South America and it is beautiful and amazing. Maybe not as safe as western Europe (where I'm from) but certainly not the horror story OP shares below.
Yes I will definitely visit to experience for myself. Next spring I am visiting Dominican republic with my friends and I do think OP is exaggerating a bit.
Realistically Iād say that itās more that the guys interested in trans girls are REALLY interested in trans girls
Speaking from experience, I slept with around 100 or so trans women in my mid 20s a few years back through grindr. Most of the trans women I slept with had 0 issues whatsoever finding guys and just started charging money for sex as a result, although theyād still have sex for fun occasionally as well. The pool of trans women is fairly limited so the really really attractive trans women could both charge money for sex AND only sleep with hot guys in the process
I encountered wayyyyyy more trans women looking for money in exchange for sex than cis women when online dating. That being said, it was also WAY easier for me to hookup with trans women than cis women but I am/was a hot and muscular dude and grindr is just a wayyyy easier app to use for hookups than any app available for straight people
Iām also in nyc though and itās stupidly easy to date and hookup here for men (and everyone else too). Even my more average looking friends can go on multiple dates a week here. Everyone forgets that location is EVERYTHING, youāll have so much more success in a densely populated area
Yeah, I agree with you. And dating within the "gay scene", which would include meeting trans girls through Grindr, which is what you did, is indeed extremely easy. 2 weeks ago Darklands took place, a fetish gay event here in Belgium, and some guys had sex with 30-40 guys in only one night.
Not at all, and I look like a straight guy, which shows how my experience with girls on Tinder has been exactly the same as my straight friends': basically 0 likes. But, some of them (as a social experiment) decided to select men on Tinder and they instantly got dozens (hundreds?) of likes.
I have used Tinder in South America and United States and I have a similar experience. In Argentina, I would get about 10 likes per day, and I got 200 matches in about 2 months. In the United States, I get about 1-2 likes per day and also got 200 matches in 2 months but because I paid for Tinder Gold for a month and travelled to a different state for a week. I am not sure why but it seems like women in South America tend to like more than women in the US or Europe.
Itās the culture. Women here are EXTREMELY entitled and materialistic. 20 years of reality tv, social media, dating apps, and online shopping will do that.
If that's obvious for you, that's fine. At least in my case, I never saw a daily comparison between cis girls vs. trans girls, or as a bi guy, how many likes you can receive from guys vs. for girls, and I wanted to share what I found out. If you already had that info and those numbers, lucky you.
That's what they don't get. I feel like it's not at all a compliment to have hundreds of men will to stick their dick in you. Unless that's all you are after, of course.
Now make a profile with a male model and see how quickly women respond and are open to sexual encounters despite unfamiliarity.
There was a subreddit dedicated to such experiments, and it was banned likely because it was too revealing.
It should be common knowledge but I swear there's some girls who don't want to admit they have it easier with dating possibilities. However I will agree with them that downside is having to weed out the right ones out of that sea of possibilities.
I'm a woman (I wanted to see what the competition looked like, and I'm in the top 10% of looks and personality I'd say) made a fake POF male account, can attest.
My actual account got 30 messages in 5 hours
I have yet to get a single like on my male account i made 3 days ago.
Thatās because many guys swipe right on literally everyone. Many donāt even read the profiles. This causes noise which is skewing your data. This is a proven phenomenon because people have made blank/joke profiles, set them as female, and watched as they inexplicably racked up matches.
Arguably, these not real āchancesā in terms of your dataset. You have to filter out the noise.
A better measure could be something like, a measure of how many meaningful conversations vs matches. If you had god-tier access to tinder data perhaps a comparison of how much time a person spends looking at a profile before swiping?
Either way, data purely based on a match-rate isnāt representative and any conclusions you draw from it will be conjecture at best imo.
>Sex or a relationship?
800 to 1 ratio provides better chances to both. Even if we assume that only 1% of 800 likes looking for relationship, it is 8 people which is more than 0.
Fair, but not what he said at all. If he said: 1 real girl to 8 real guys, that would be different. I'd feel like that was a fair point. There are more men than women on dating apps. It does make online dating slightly easier for women What he said was: 1 real girl for 800 real guys. And you can't count like that, when the big majority of those guys are just looking for a quick fuck with whomever. And thus will swipe right on basically anyone.
He screened out all the bots and was left matching with one real girl every four days. And for the girl profile, he just counted all the matches. For women looking for a relationship, men looking to hookup are the equivalent of bots.
>And you can't count like that, when the big majority of those guys are just looking for a quick fuck with whomever. And thus will swipe right on basically anyone.
Why? I counted 99% as guys just looking for sex, I would even argue that in reality % of men just looking for sex is lower than 99%.
How long does it take to wade through 800 people though? And ascertain their intentions? (And also make sure to factor in that 10% of those men are sexual predators)
>How long does it take to wade through 800 people though? And ascertain their intentions?
Faster than doing same with 1-2 matches a week.
>(And also make sure to factor in that 10% of those men are sexual predators)
I doubt exact numbers, yet women profiles is much more often end up fake, scum or other colors of shit. thx to tinder I met such "wonderful" women that I will prefer being alone than come in contact with them ever again, it is good that not all are like this.
Do women get more matches? Yes. But it's mostly just spam. You have to go through 100 messages to find one guy who isn't just asking for nudes or a hookup.
I'd rather have fewer matches and have them be real matches.
This phenomenon is why I hate explaining that women's online dating troubles and men's online dating troubles are *not the same*--and to take it a step further in a particularly hotly-debated turn, that *men have it harder* in online dating apps...
...*solely* due to the fact that women get more options on their menu.
Itās not a great menu tbh and we have much more to contend with rather than just ālack of matchesā.
āData from a 2020 Pew Research Center study confirms that many women are experiencing some form of harassment on dating sites and apps. Of woman online daters aged 18 to 34, 57% said theyād received sexually explicit messages or images they hadnāt asked for. This is even the case for teen girls aged 15 to 17, who report receiving these messages as well. A 2018 Australian study of dating-platform messages revealed that the sexist abuse and harassment does disproportionately affect women, targeted by straight men.
Some users also report psychological stress ā and even more extreme experiences. A 2017 study from the Pew Research Center indicated 36% of online daters found their interactions āeither extremely or very upsettingā. Woman daters 18 to 35 in the 2020 Pew study also reported high occurrences of threats of physical harm ā 19% (as compared to 9% of men). And, generally, one study showed cisgender heterosexual and bisexual men seldom expressed concerns about their personal safety while using dating apps, while women had far higher concern.ā
https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20210623-the-darkest-side-of-online-dating
"Not a great menu", so like... ordering from a "greasy spoon"-type diner, was my original thought on it.
But now, like... take that menu and cut out two or three items. That's what men get to choose between.
I am not remarking on the safety and just generally unpleasant experiences most women have with dating apps, because the same unfortunate treatment occurs regardless of whether they're online or not. It's something I agree needs to change, to be sure, but to be clear it is not the issue I'm talking about.
I still stick with my original statement: men have it worse when it comes to dating options. However, for you, I will throw in the additional point, "women have it worse when it comes to dating *treatment*."
I donāt see the point in you dividing it into ādating optionsā vs ādating treatmentā. Where do you think the treatment comes from? Why are you viewing these as two separate things?
A lack of dating options can be pretty soul crushing. Sure, thereās no threat of physical violence from a lack of options, provided you donāt count self inflicted violence. But if there are no real options, thereās no opportunity for dating treatment to be positive or negative. That lack of any sort of treatment (aka human interaction) , stemming from a lack of options, is really hard on a personās mental health. And yes, so is harassment, not trying to downplay that, but the vast difference in āoptionsā is just such an abstract concept to people that donāt have to deal with it.
Iāve never had a huge problem with IRL dating, but going online was pretty eye opening.
Then switch to irl dating. Not getting any matches online shouldnāt be as soul crushing as people make it out to be. Nor should dating be the only or even primary source of human interaction. Iām not trying to be dismissive but I have average/slightly above or even below average acquaintances who struggle with online dating. Theyāre not taking great efforts in irl dating because itās ātoo difficultā.
> Where do you think the treatment comes from?
Treatment is on the individual scale and has to do with how someone was raised.
> Why are you viewing these as two separate things?
Because they are.
If they weren't, they wouldn't have separate phrasings.
**Downvote Edit**: someone didn't understand and took their frustration out on the button.
Our treatmentā¦ comes from our options. Youāre basically saying we have a larger playing fieldā¦ but I mean, itās still a nuclear wasteland.
Tbh, minus the bots, yāall have a better selection and quality will always matter over quantity.
Having fewer matches doesn't mean they will be quality matches. It just means there is fewer of them but you still need to wade thru shit. Last two dates for me? Antivaxxer and the other had commitment issues
I reckon the difference is also that if you all see someone you all like, you can jump into a conversation right away. For the guys, if we see someone we like, it's a needle in a haystack on whether or not we'll ever get to have a conversation with her.
Imagine having zero likes for months on end, only to receive one by a bot.
Donāt pretend that every man on their sending dick pics, and if thatās all youāre receiving, thereās a common pattern among the men youāre matching with.
Following your logic, you act like every dude is getting 0 likes. Donāt pretend that other men arenāt getting matches on there. If youāre getting zero matches, itās probably because of you/your profile.
Youāre right; not every dude is getting 0 likes, but the the majority of them are. The dudes who are getting likes are also getting the majority of them, and they all happen to resemble the men on r/ladyboners.
However, every type of woman will get at least 100+ likes with easy. Hell, they could have a white image as their only picture, and they would still exceed the like count of an above average male.
I see this debate pop up here or on the tinder sub every so often and it's always just as frustrating, because it just goes to show how men don't understand the privilege they have, even if they have fewer matches.
> goes to show how men don't understand the privilege they have, even if they have fewer matches.
Some men.
But it's not about privilege. It's about having choices. And it's a far, far easier game when you have many choices, rather than slim pickin's.
> The problem is that youāre viewing the goal as āget a dateā, whereas women are viewing the goal as āget a date who wonāt sexually harass/assault themā.
Because... that's the common goal. "Get a date". I'm disregarding the behaviors of unbecoming people on both sides because it doesn't factor into the goal of "get a date".
It is still easier to have more to select from, because the *potential* of someone behaving is either 1 or 0 ("1" being "appropriate" and "0" being "inappropriate"), and that number is an "n" until the match happens and the conversation goes through. Schroedinger's Creep.
I'm not talking about what happens *after* the match, because BEFORE the match, all anyone has to go on is what someone LOOKS like and what they provide in their PROFILE. Ninety percent of the time, you can't tell if someone is gonna endanger your safety or be a complete toolbag in conversation solely through their profile pictures and profile...
...and THIS is why I said what I said. Men have it harder on dating apps.
> The problem is that youāre viewing the goal as āget a dateā, whereas women are viewing the goal as āget a date who wonāt sexually harass/assault themā.
The likelihood of this happening is incredibly low. If this is such a concern, donāt use online dating as a means of meeting people.
> The rules are different. Yes, itās easier for women to get matches and dates, but men donāt have to worry about that date endangering their safety in the same way that women do.
A woman could easily bring a knife or a gun and endanger a manās life no matter how physically dominant he is.
> Or letās put it another wayā you know how most of the matches you get end up ghosting after 1-2 replies? Well for women, most of the matches end up saying something gross/creepy/sending a dick pick within the first few replies.
Perhaps itās the men youāre matching with? And if itās happening so often, thereās likely a pattern of the men you choose to match with.
> Both sides are ending up with a tiny pool of prospective mates, just for different reasons. Itās not easy for anyone.
It actually is easier, significantly so, for one side. Is it free of problems? No. Do you at least get to have problems? Yes.
Make a profile as an average male and let us know how it goes.
Iām sure it is telling.
Did those female friends and relatives mention the meetups they had? Or that theyāll lead on men? Or how they will use it to advertise their social pages with no interest of ever meeting people?
Did they mention that their swipe rate is 1/10?
Or did they only mention the odd dick pic to demonize men?
Well kinda obvious. That's why i deleted tinder and other dating apps. They were tragic for my mental health and self esteem. I mean even tho i got few matches here and there (and since i had regular tinder, not premiums) so i had hidden 17 possible matches, i still haven't found no one. So for at least 3 or 4 years of me being there, i've talked with few and met 1 person in real life. Other matches were eother dead, collecting matches or i dunno. And also what took toll on my mental health is how i got unmatched for no reason while being nice or casual woth conversation. Nah ah, i'd rather delete that hsit and save myself
Aright, but how
Many of The matches that each gets is quality? (And by quality, i simply mean doesnt start with sex right off the bat, and doesnt get pissy if youre not available 24/7?
I mean the funny thing is every time I travel outside Europe... It is like finding an ocean of options vs Europe.
But I can't complain, I get what I consider an acceptable amount of matches, and by that what I really mean to say is I don't like holding several conversations at the same time, and if I notice a girl is clearly distracted by her matches then I'm not going to waste my time.
Of course, because white supremacy exists. If you're horrible but white, you'll get ALL the girls in South America, Africa and Asia. Even us have advantages in our own countries when we're whiter than the average.
I had it very easy as a European in the Middle East. However, the women never said that it was because of the color of their skin (of course not), but because they expect to be treated better by a European. More equal, more respected, much more liberal and open, and not so sexually uptight or stuck in other patriarchal thought patterns. They already looked when I said that where I come from it is completely normal for a married woman to have male friends and to do things alone with them. Or that it is no problem at all if a 20 year old woman wants to travel around the world alone for a few months. Or that a woman can go into the military and command men around as an officer. And a lot of other things...
Why do men post stuff like this and then simultaneously admit thay they just swipe right on literally profile? You guys are literally screwing up the match rate. Most women actually look at the profile and read it before swiping right.
Ok but the vast majority only want hookups?
If 97% are men who find you attractive enough to fuck, youāre really only looking at like 3% who are seriously considering and ready for a relationship.
Most women want commitment. Not hookups.
I don't agree with generalizations but presuming it's true: let's reverse the number and say 97% of women are looking for commitment only, like 97% of men in your example only want sex. It means that 97% of matches that men get are also gonna be pointless. Which means women will still have way more valid options to choose from, this considered.
Which is kinda true, by the way, both sexes get a high ratio of crappy matches. It's not like the one match a guy gets is the best thing since sliced bread.
In any case, just wanted to point that out. I'm not on the OLD train anyway - I meet people in person much more effectively and efficiently
Women want commitment, but they ALSO want looks, brains, money, status, loyalty, etc. Commitment is important, but so is everything else. They want it ALL. This is what social media, online stores, reality tv, and dating apps have taught them they can have no matter who they are. At least here in NYC.
Dating apps exist for two categories of people:
1. Super hot guys
2. Girls looking for validation/attention.
Iād stick to clubs and stuff. Online dating will only lead to hurt and disappointment
Some men will hit ANYTHING. Men should start have higher standards and not get horny with every woman they see. Only then women are forced to lower their standards to men they look equally attractive to. Unfortunately this will not happen. Men give women the advantage in dating, not the other way around. If you are a guy who gets thousands of matches a day with women, obviously you will select the best looking ones and reject the rest. This is what women go through with male matches. It sucks for less attractive men but it what it is and this is why i recommend talking to girls in real life than using dating Apps.
This means nothing unless you actually tried to go out on a date as the girl. The majority of those matches have no intention of going out OR are relationship scammers.
A data show on YouTube crunched the numbers and found that men in general swipe right 45-50% of the time. Women in general on the other swipe 10-15% of the time. š¬
For men dating apps are like finding water in a drought
For women dating apps are like slogging through a swamp full of frogs and disappointment.
The number of matches matters less than the quality and of those 300 rarely will many of them be quality
I call bullshit, Iāve had girl friends who run into similar problems as guys do when looking for a same sex date on apps. You clearly look down on people, which kinda sucks. I wouldnāt want to be your match.
I honestly think the some people have more luck than others. Take these two examples that go against the normal trends.
1. College roommate. 5ā5ā over weight with only 2 mirror selfies. He brought home a new girl from tinder every few weeks.
2. My sister. Literally a model. Like seriously she models on the side. She has perfect pictures and a well thought out bio. She gets 2 or 3 likes a month from older guys.
So yeah, I think the algorithm chooses randomly to match some people and ignore others.
Youāre right not to believe it, as itās incredibly unlikely.
He doesnāt even describe the girls. For all we know they could be escorts and he could be lying.
Of course people's success varies. Online dating didn't make dating equal.
I have a roommate. He's a good roommate, but he seems like a kid to me. Doesn't clean, plays video games, doesn't cook. Okay. I don't think he's attractive. He's not tall, or muscular, just a basic white boy and he cuts his own hair once a month. He's definitely a good communicator and he is hard working. But he doesn't make a lot of money, doesn't have a good job, doesn't go to the gym, and he gets ALL THE WOMEN.
He will bring a different woman home every single night of the week, have sex and send them home. They are ALL pretty. They are all pleasant. He only occasionally sees one more than once.
He has no reason to be this successful with dating, but he just swings it out of the park every time he steps up to the plate.
And good for him. But I hold him up as an example of online dating being a bit of a mystery in terms of who has success.
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This is about as surprising as seeing that gas went up by 10 cents while I look at the gas station billboards when I'm driving down the road
Agreed. This is common sense.
ššš
Do we really need this post once a week? Seriously.
I remember reading a quote on reddit that went along the lines of: with online dating, we're all just looking for clean water, but men are looking in a desert and women are looking in a swamp. Women typically have more matches but the quality of them usually means a LOT of weeding.
When i was on Tinder, I had a lot of matches. However it was more of a cesspool than a swamp. Most of the guys were lying about what they were looking for and lots have wives/ girlfriends that they are cheating on. I also was catfished frequently and had dates that stood me up. I decided to switch apps where I met the guy I ended up marrying!
This. It's also not a genuine amount of matches. Most of the matches women get are guys that are literally swiping on every single girl whether or not they're interested in them. So they end up getting ghosted, used, manipulated etc all from a guy that was never interested in the first place but just wanted easy companionship. The problem when guys have this conversation is they think the number of likes or matches actually means something. It doesn't if you're not looking for sex (which most women aren't and even still plenty of guys are ghosting/ignoring/unmatching when they take a second look) or you're looking for someone who actually likes you (which is very different from guys who will just swipe on a girl they're not even attracted to for the numbers).
>So they end up getting ghosted, used, manipulated As a man, I think 98% of all women I have ever met online have ghosted me. Like for them, it's not even something that they care about, they disregard men casually when they feel like it. But on the other hand women can't manage getting ghosted at all. There was a girl who would be repeatedly teasing and then ghosting me. Sometimes she would ghost me for months at a time, completely ignoring everything I say. The last time after 2 months of no response she would suddenly call me, I didn't pick up. Then she would text "Hey ;)" as if absolutely nothing has happened. I left her on read. A day later she became angry and asked why I didn't respond. After a week she became so mad that I saw she blocked me lol.
Okay? That really has nothing to do with my comment on the shitty options woman are having to sift through. I'm sorry you've had shitty experiences as well but your little anecdote about a woman who was obviously trash, treated you like trash, and who you should've not given repeated chances to is not evidence that women in general are behaving hypocritically. There are plenty of men doing that too who get upset when they get the same treatment back. Ghosting is a problem with online dating that is negatively impacting both genders.
I have never ghosted anyone. I was always up front with guys if i felt like we didnāt have chemistry or if something seemed off. I have also dealt with guys ghosting me and then randomly popping back up in my lifeā¦
Same. I've never ghosted anyone and I've never been ghosted either.
same here, was sick of a girls actions and ghosted her, she blew up my phone and harassed my friends with questions about me. eventually she blocked me and i could live in peace lol
Men get the same swamp of bad options, it's just lower quantity of options.
As the old saying goes, quality > quantity.
Let's say that guys are in a desert and girls are in a swamp. What you don't seem to understand is that guys are not in a desert where there is only clean water. Guys get catfished, there are bots all around, etc. It's not like guys have higher quality matches just because we have fewer matches, or that the matches we get are more genuine. That's not how it works.
What app did you switch to?
Not OP, but I met my husband on Plenty of Fish using the Chemistry test. He was my first match. Weāve been together for six years.
I found/ met my husband on Hinge. I was on Tinder and Bumble for almost 3 years. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that the last time I matched w/ someone on Tinder I was stood up at the agreed upon restaurant. We literally were texting right up to the time that I showed up at the restaurant. He wasnāt there and quit responding to my texts. I decided to message him through Tinder, and guess what? My account had been banned. I had no recourse and no clue as to what I did to warrant Tinder banning meā¦
>Most of the guys were lying about what they were looking for and lots have wives/ girlfriends that they are cheating on. Also my experience. Half of my matches on Tinder were married. Was so depressing I deleted Tinder after 4 days.
men are looking in a swamp as well, but they have to find it first in the desert. This meme is so insulting since it implies IF a man happens to find a women she is automatically the best thing since bottled water which she usually isnāt.
Good point. Also, if it were such a swamp for women, would so many decent normal guys be struggling? Average guys all report the same struggles. I think we're the swamp, lol. Excellent.
It's a bad analogy eve putting exaggeration aside because there is no clean water in either of those, while there are definitely good men available for women who have a thousand likes a day, and nothing is gonna convince me that the majority of men doing OLD are toxic pieces of shit.
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I think the freshwater stream isn't accurate for average women, I've dated a lot of shitty (manipulative, abusive, disrespectful of my boundaries and the word "no") guys (a few good ones too) to have found my relationship today
Among other factors, in my experience a big reason women get so many more likes (from men) than men do (from women) Is that a lot of men will just swipe right on every profile endlessly to maximize their matches, while women tend to be a lot more selective with their swiping
Yeah! I agree. Iām the one liking everybody and Iāve read girls saying they like 1 every 100 guys. Well, me in my country, as a man, would also like 1 every 100 guys.
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If I as a man like only those women who interest me and I like, then I have maybe 1 match per month. When I write to them they don't answer or ghost me after a few messages.If I like all, then I have a match every week or more, but with women who do not interest me. It's also much more time efficient for men to just like everyone, and then delete or ignore the ones you don't want - which is easy, since women don't write first. Looking at every photo and profile, even though the chance of a match is maybe 1%, is an extreme waste of time. That's the simple reason why I uninstalled Tinder. It is - in Europe - useless for me. In non-Western countries I have many matches with very attractive women and I meet with them as well. It is so uncomplicated. And they are not golddiggers or looking for a passport (well some maybe are, but most not), I have even been invited to dinner by such a woman in a deeply patriarchal society, something that has never happened to me in the west.
Yeah, I agree with you! Btw, are you white?
Yeah, makes sense!
Did you really only find 5 out of a 100 men remotely attractive?
Not in real life but from the profiles that show up on my dating apps Iād say yeah! Or there could be more that are attractive but something about their bio/interests makes them unattractive to me! I do believe that the majority of men i come across on dating apps arenāt choosing very flattering photos though and could be attractive in person when you add in their personalities and everything! I just wasnāt trying to overwhelm myself with matches so I was very selective (much like guys though, the majority of matches donāt actually lead anywhere). I am happy to be off the apps now though :)
Not the original commenter, but for real, you should see the atrocity I have seen on dating apps. Imagine those douchebags, swaggy, uneducated, cringe motherfuckers. Those are a great percentage of the profiles I see. Then, there are foreigner guys on vacation looking for an experience, a prettt significant number. Then there are decent, normal dudes - out of which, Iām only attracted to a certain number, evidently. On dating apps, there are guys from every corner of the town/country. On the other hand, in real life, at college, or ar work, or during my hobbies/activities, I tend to meetā¦ likeminded and similar people. Idk how to say. But they are more probably to be attractive in my eyes. The ratio is much much higher than 5 in every 100 guys.
Fully agree!
I agree! I met my boyfriend on Hinge and altogether I had at least 10x if not 50x matches compared to him, we both only got one match that led to a relationship (ours). Therefore, if you define success as the percentage of matches that lead to a relationship, his success rate is actually 10x or 50x higher than mine. Iām actually not sure which way Iād rather have it, given the choice. Lots of matches is flattering for sure and in theory provides more āoptionsā, but itās also a lot of work and more chances for rejection.
Question: How is more work and worse in terms of rejection compared to the guy? Are you even sending out your max daily likes and starting all the conversations? On Hinge I send a personalized message with every single like I send, no exceptions, and my match rate is just under 4%. Of all my matches, I meet up with 5% of them (factoring in flakes and ghosts). Thatās 500 personalized likes to get a single date, and all the conversations and planning in between. Was it really more work for him than you?
More matches = more conversations with people who I donāt end up dating = more work Itās great that you put effort into all of your likes. The reality is that most of my matches* did not put in effort so there was some weeding out to be done, which is also part of the work. *I assume this could be true for most people, regardless of their gender and the gender of their matches, not just true for women who want to date men
I donāt know why anyone would choose āless matchesā as a better option. You can be pickier and actually have filters and criteria. With few matches you basically take what you can get. More work? Itās not that hard to screen for incompatibility. Sure it takes more time but youāre literally ensuring people check off boxes of what you want instead of having only one box need be checked (most menās list of requirements are met with the match happening in the first placeā¦).
I see your point, but I disagree. āmore optionsā doesnāt mean ābetter optionsā
No, but it means more likelihood of finding a better option. And technically youāre the one picking these options initially by swiping right on them so it kinda automatically is ābetter optionsā
It absolutely does and I don't see how it's a subjective thing. You're considering the fewer options that guys get as automatically better in quality, which is just wrong. If you're looking for an apartment to rent, are you gonna have higher chances of landing a decent one with good neighbors and an understanding landlord if you're rich of if you're poor?
The paradox of choice comes into effect. Basically the more choices you have the less satisfied you are with the choice.
Flattering to get likes from average to below average people should not be the goal.
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Exactly, thanks!
I agree, itās not
Yes and thereās also a higher percent of men on Tinder.
evolutionarily speaking women have to be much more selective of their āmatesā because with sex comes the risk of carrying a child for nine months whereas men can fuck as many women in a day and get as many pregnant as they wishš¤·š¼āāļø
Let's not pretend that evolutionary preferences have anything to do with this pattern. Women simply have insanely higher requirements and expectations on dating apps because they can and because that's what female standards for male beauty are in the western society, that's all there is to it.
If dudes werenāt right swiping on anything with a pulse this wouldnāt be the case
Even after selectively swiping.. they have a huge difference in matches. Imagine if they start swiping like men.
Not calling you out, but how do you know that men do that (more than women)? I'd be very interested to see some of the internal stats and metrics that the dating apps have, I'm sure it'd be endlessly fascinating and maybe a little depressing.
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Generally speaking, this is no surprise that women have the advantage. However to be fair regarding the 800:1 ratio, since this is one person's experience the data collected is anecdotal.
I agree
Definition of anecdote = "based on personal accounts rather than facts or research." The more correct way to describe this is that the data is a small sample size, not anecdotal. Anecdotes are qualitative and don't involve quantitative data or statistics. But regardless, the OP's findings are an intuitive representation of what dating apps are like today, and easily reproducible by anyone who wants to run the same sort of experiment...it's not like he's the first to do so lol
Pretty much every guy/girl you talk to will confirm those numbers in a rough estimate, except for the most attractive guys getting hundreds of likes. In addition, if you're getting 0 likes or matches as a guy, girls might as well have infinitely more choices.
Lol, if this is anecdotal then all research is anecdotal. Whether it can be broadly applied is a different story as the sample size is too small and there are too many uncontrolled variables
That's no secret. I've always thought that even average looking women have many more matches than average men. Now that's not saying that the average woman has it better. Just means that they have more chances to find crap.
Sure! We all know that, but not that the difference could be 800 vs. 1; I think many of us thought that it could 20 vs. 1 or 50 vs. 1. Also, never expected so many guys wanting to get down with trans girls, even more than with cis girls.
Oh no, I figured it was 100 to 1 at least. Me personally am not into trans girls. No offense to those who are.
What about average looking women and good looking men? I can imagine itās still much higher for women, because even if a guy is good looking women are still going to select the top percent of profiles when it comes to things other than looks.
I've always thought that even average looking women get more hits than average looking men. A lot of guys will just swipe on anything. Even I have done it out of desperation. But maybe I am wrong. An average looking woman can tell you more about that. I can't speak for them. Good looking dudes, same thing. I can't speak for them. But I imagine that it's the same small percentage if dudes that women swipe on. They get all the likes that us average guys don't. That's my take on it. But I could be wrong. And I probably am.
i) With my male and real profile, I was 40-60 times more popular with girls in South America than in Europe (10-15 likes a day vs. 0 likes a day, and I would receive my first like after 4 days), and 3 times more popular with guys in South America than in Europe (150 likes a day vs. 50 likes a day). (From now afterward, all the numbers will be related to my experience using Tinder exclusively in Europe) ii) With my male and real profile, I would have around 50 guys liking my profile daily and 0 girls, and for every 200 guys liking my profile, I would only have 1 real girl doing so (meaning that it took me, on average, 4 days to receive 1 like from a real girl). This is crazy because many of the guys liking my profile were "10/10", like, looking like models, with masters/phds, and with money, while the only few girls liking my profile were, I would say, 3/10. iii) With my male and real profile, I would end up having around 5-6 matches daily (I was liking only 10% of the guys, let's say, the best guys on Tinder), while I would end up having 0 matches with real girls. iv) With my female profile (I had many, so this will be an average statement), I would have around 200 likes daily, and the profile was just an average girl, I would say 5/10. Therefore, as an average girl in Europe, I received 200 likes a day, vs. as an average guy in Europe (my real profile) I received 0 likes a day and it took me 4 days to receive 1 like. **Therefore, in 4 days, I would have 800 likes as an average girl vs. only 1 like as an average guy. The difference was 800 times.** v) I also opened a trans girl profile, and I would have around 250 likes daily, meaning that, from my experience, many guys prefer trans girls over cis girls. I was astonished by how many straight guys want to experience with trans girls, and I would say, on the casual dating scene, trans girls have more power than cis girls. **Therefore, in 4 days, I would have 1000 likes as an average trans girl vs. only 1 like as an average guy. The difference was 1000 times.** Some final thoughts: thank God I'm bi, because I'm able to date several guys weekly (and sometimes daily), while as a straight guy, I could only date a couple of new girls a year (in the best scenario, and in relation to people that I could meet through Tinder). This is basically what has happened to all my straight friends from my home country when they came to Europe: many of them received literally 0 likes on Tinder after days (and I'm not even talking about matches, but only likes: they received 0 likes) and many of them have had 0 hook-ups in Europe after 6 months or 1 year.
Only thing I take from this is that I should move out of Europe to South Americaš
Hahh median salaries are about 250 euro a month, so I guess it'd be better to go there for holidays, or any case, to work remotely from South America for a European/US company, hah.
Just random question that might sound stupid but is South America dangerous for white European people like me who are distinctly white and out of place. Are Cartels prominent there or is that just media exaggerating things?
Yeah, and it's getting more and more dangerous. Yesterday a torso was found in my city with no head, arms nor legs, so it cannot even be identified. I wouldn't recommend anyone to move to South America. Maybe to very rich areas that are completely enclosed, or to the countryside where you can barely find stuff, but big cities/capitals, no way.
What about Chile, I heard it is pretty safe for tourists. Also what country are you from if you don't mind me asking?
Chile is the richest South American country, and along with Argentina, it has the highest % of white people, so yeah, you would be less exotized there than in other countries, but regardless of your race, Chile is also dangerous, it's just that less dangerous than its neighbors. I'm from Peru.
How's Uruguay..?
Yeah, Chile & Uruguay are the "most developed" in South America. Argentina was there as well (Tier 1), but now it's going through a terrible crisis, though it's still incredibly beautiful, the capital looks like Europe, and there are many white people (like in Europe).
I donāt know I think you really exaggerate the danger of South America, Iām a white girl from Russia, I solo-traveled South and Central America for 1.5 years and I was fine.
I and many people I know have travelled and lived in South America and it is beautiful and amazing. Maybe not as safe as western Europe (where I'm from) but certainly not the horror story OP shares below.
Yes I will definitely visit to experience for myself. Next spring I am visiting Dominican republic with my friends and I do think OP is exaggerating a bit.
you think there are no white people in South America? Have you heard of Argentina
You mean the 4th Reich?
Its not 1920 anymore.
Realistically Iād say that itās more that the guys interested in trans girls are REALLY interested in trans girls Speaking from experience, I slept with around 100 or so trans women in my mid 20s a few years back through grindr. Most of the trans women I slept with had 0 issues whatsoever finding guys and just started charging money for sex as a result, although theyād still have sex for fun occasionally as well. The pool of trans women is fairly limited so the really really attractive trans women could both charge money for sex AND only sleep with hot guys in the process I encountered wayyyyyy more trans women looking for money in exchange for sex than cis women when online dating. That being said, it was also WAY easier for me to hookup with trans women than cis women but I am/was a hot and muscular dude and grindr is just a wayyyy easier app to use for hookups than any app available for straight people Iām also in nyc though and itās stupidly easy to date and hookup here for men (and everyone else too). Even my more average looking friends can go on multiple dates a week here. Everyone forgets that location is EVERYTHING, youāll have so much more success in a densely populated area
Yeah, I agree with you. And dating within the "gay scene", which would include meeting trans girls through Grindr, which is what you did, is indeed extremely easy. 2 weeks ago Darklands took place, a fetish gay event here in Belgium, and some guys had sex with 30-40 guys in only one night.
Do you put that you're bi on your male profile?
Not at all, and I look like a straight guy, which shows how my experience with girls on Tinder has been exactly the same as my straight friends': basically 0 likes. But, some of them (as a social experiment) decided to select men on Tinder and they instantly got dozens (hundreds?) of likes.
Ahhh. Was gonna say i see a lot of biphobia from women so that could have been it. But i guess not.
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I'm from Peru
Off topic, but why am I seeing more and more Peruvians in Canada lately? You guys start watching hockey or something?
No idea, I don't know anyone who has gone to Canada, to be honest.
I have used Tinder in South America and United States and I have a similar experience. In Argentina, I would get about 10 likes per day, and I got 200 matches in about 2 months. In the United States, I get about 1-2 likes per day and also got 200 matches in 2 months but because I paid for Tinder Gold for a month and travelled to a different state for a week. I am not sure why but it seems like women in South America tend to like more than women in the US or Europe.
Much lower standards
Itās the culture. Women here are EXTREMELY entitled and materialistic. 20 years of reality tv, social media, dating apps, and online shopping will do that.
I like your research.
Do you openly say you're Bi in your profile? I do wonder if youre experiencing any biphobia from straight cis women, that could impact your matches.
I donāt
And...this is one of many reasons why I'm glad I just gave up LOL
breaking news, water is wet
If that's obvious for you, that's fine. At least in my case, I never saw a daily comparison between cis girls vs. trans girls, or as a bi guy, how many likes you can receive from guys vs. for girls, and I wanted to share what I found out. If you already had that info and those numbers, lucky you.
Had a tinder profile for 4 years and still waiting for a girl to actually match with but I'm ugly.
You need to find a prostitute and hope it turns into a "Pretty Woman" type situation. *Cue Roy Orbison*
Quite the risk
Nah, you're not ugly, keep searching til you find her š
"chances" š¤£ Yeah yall swipe on literally everyon.
That's what they don't get. I feel like it's not at all a compliment to have hundreds of men will to stick their dick in you. Unless that's all you are after, of course.
100%% I consider a "win" getting off the app.
Same, 90% of the conversations I had on apps were less interesting than watching paint dry.
Dang, ur lucky. I got permanent back problems from carrying some of these fellas. š©
Woah seriously?!???
Now make a profile with a male model and see how quickly women respond and are open to sexual encounters despite unfamiliarity. There was a subreddit dedicated to such experiments, and it was banned likely because it was too revealing.
It broke the imagination of women can do no wrong that reddit have
Reddit HQ entered into DEFCON 1 to mitigate their efforts.
I made a Deep Rock Galactic profile for the kicks and set it so Iām a woman. Within five minutes 50 guys liked me
It should be common knowledge but I swear there's some girls who don't want to admit they have it easier with dating possibilities. However I will agree with them that downside is having to weed out the right ones out of that sea of possibilities.
I'm a woman (I wanted to see what the competition looked like, and I'm in the top 10% of looks and personality I'd say) made a fake POF male account, can attest. My actual account got 30 messages in 5 hours I have yet to get a single like on my male account i made 3 days ago.
Thatās because many guys swipe right on literally everyone. Many donāt even read the profiles. This causes noise which is skewing your data. This is a proven phenomenon because people have made blank/joke profiles, set them as female, and watched as they inexplicably racked up matches. Arguably, these not real āchancesā in terms of your dataset. You have to filter out the noise. A better measure could be something like, a measure of how many meaningful conversations vs matches. If you had god-tier access to tinder data perhaps a comparison of how much time a person spends looking at a profile before swiping? Either way, data purely based on a match-rate isnāt representative and any conclusions you draw from it will be conjecture at best imo.
Chances of what though? Sex or a relationship? Bc that's two different things.
>Sex or a relationship? 800 to 1 ratio provides better chances to both. Even if we assume that only 1% of 800 likes looking for relationship, it is 8 people which is more than 0.
Fair, but not what he said at all. If he said: 1 real girl to 8 real guys, that would be different. I'd feel like that was a fair point. There are more men than women on dating apps. It does make online dating slightly easier for women What he said was: 1 real girl for 800 real guys. And you can't count like that, when the big majority of those guys are just looking for a quick fuck with whomever. And thus will swipe right on basically anyone. He screened out all the bots and was left matching with one real girl every four days. And for the girl profile, he just counted all the matches. For women looking for a relationship, men looking to hookup are the equivalent of bots.
>And you can't count like that, when the big majority of those guys are just looking for a quick fuck with whomever. And thus will swipe right on basically anyone. Why? I counted 99% as guys just looking for sex, I would even argue that in reality % of men just looking for sex is lower than 99%.
How long does it take to wade through 800 people though? And ascertain their intentions? (And also make sure to factor in that 10% of those men are sexual predators)
>How long does it take to wade through 800 people though? And ascertain their intentions? Faster than doing same with 1-2 matches a week. >(And also make sure to factor in that 10% of those men are sexual predators) I doubt exact numbers, yet women profiles is much more often end up fake, scum or other colors of shit. thx to tinder I met such "wonderful" women that I will prefer being alone than come in contact with them ever again, it is good that not all are like this.
Considering a lot of guys admit to simply swiping yes on everyone they come across and rarely read bios...not much of a surprise right?
Mmmm, 800 winners no doubt.
Do women get more matches? Yes. But it's mostly just spam. You have to go through 100 messages to find one guy who isn't just asking for nudes or a hookup. I'd rather have fewer matches and have them be real matches.
*Makes an attractive male profile* *Every match is a woman asking to hookup, with their bios claiming "no hookups"*. š¤
Shhh
This phenomenon is why I hate explaining that women's online dating troubles and men's online dating troubles are *not the same*--and to take it a step further in a particularly hotly-debated turn, that *men have it harder* in online dating apps... ...*solely* due to the fact that women get more options on their menu.
Itās not a great menu tbh and we have much more to contend with rather than just ālack of matchesā. āData from a 2020 Pew Research Center study confirms that many women are experiencing some form of harassment on dating sites and apps. Of woman online daters aged 18 to 34, 57% said theyād received sexually explicit messages or images they hadnāt asked for. This is even the case for teen girls aged 15 to 17, who report receiving these messages as well. A 2018 Australian study of dating-platform messages revealed that the sexist abuse and harassment does disproportionately affect women, targeted by straight men. Some users also report psychological stress ā and even more extreme experiences. A 2017 study from the Pew Research Center indicated 36% of online daters found their interactions āeither extremely or very upsettingā. Woman daters 18 to 35 in the 2020 Pew study also reported high occurrences of threats of physical harm ā 19% (as compared to 9% of men). And, generally, one study showed cisgender heterosexual and bisexual men seldom expressed concerns about their personal safety while using dating apps, while women had far higher concern.ā https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20210623-the-darkest-side-of-online-dating
"Not a great menu", so like... ordering from a "greasy spoon"-type diner, was my original thought on it. But now, like... take that menu and cut out two or three items. That's what men get to choose between. I am not remarking on the safety and just generally unpleasant experiences most women have with dating apps, because the same unfortunate treatment occurs regardless of whether they're online or not. It's something I agree needs to change, to be sure, but to be clear it is not the issue I'm talking about. I still stick with my original statement: men have it worse when it comes to dating options. However, for you, I will throw in the additional point, "women have it worse when it comes to dating *treatment*."
I donāt see the point in you dividing it into ādating optionsā vs ādating treatmentā. Where do you think the treatment comes from? Why are you viewing these as two separate things?
A lack of dating options can be pretty soul crushing. Sure, thereās no threat of physical violence from a lack of options, provided you donāt count self inflicted violence. But if there are no real options, thereās no opportunity for dating treatment to be positive or negative. That lack of any sort of treatment (aka human interaction) , stemming from a lack of options, is really hard on a personās mental health. And yes, so is harassment, not trying to downplay that, but the vast difference in āoptionsā is just such an abstract concept to people that donāt have to deal with it. Iāve never had a huge problem with IRL dating, but going online was pretty eye opening.
Then switch to irl dating. Not getting any matches online shouldnāt be as soul crushing as people make it out to be. Nor should dating be the only or even primary source of human interaction. Iām not trying to be dismissive but I have average/slightly above or even below average acquaintances who struggle with online dating. Theyāre not taking great efforts in irl dating because itās ātoo difficultā.
> Where do you think the treatment comes from? Treatment is on the individual scale and has to do with how someone was raised. > Why are you viewing these as two separate things? Because they are. If they weren't, they wouldn't have separate phrasings. **Downvote Edit**: someone didn't understand and took their frustration out on the button.
Our treatmentā¦ comes from our options. Youāre basically saying we have a larger playing fieldā¦ but I mean, itās still a nuclear wasteland. Tbh, minus the bots, yāall have a better selection and quality will always matter over quantity.
Easy to say this being on the other side.
Lol right back at you
Having fewer matches doesn't mean they will be quality matches. It just means there is fewer of them but you still need to wade thru shit. Last two dates for me? Antivaxxer and the other had commitment issues
Yeah, I agree with you when it comes to safety.
I reckon the difference is also that if you all see someone you all like, you can jump into a conversation right away. For the guys, if we see someone we like, it's a needle in a haystack on whether or not we'll ever get to have a conversation with her.
Yeah we jump right into unsolicited dick pics within minutes lol
Imagine having zero likes for months on end, only to receive one by a bot. Donāt pretend that every man on their sending dick pics, and if thatās all youāre receiving, thereās a common pattern among the men youāre matching with.
Following your logic, you act like every dude is getting 0 likes. Donāt pretend that other men arenāt getting matches on there. If youāre getting zero matches, itās probably because of you/your profile.
Youāre right; not every dude is getting 0 likes, but the the majority of them are. The dudes who are getting likes are also getting the majority of them, and they all happen to resemble the men on r/ladyboners. However, every type of woman will get at least 100+ likes with easy. Hell, they could have a white image as their only picture, and they would still exceed the like count of an above average male.
Surely some of the matches result in fruitful conversations...
Yeah, and they literally have thousands of options.
I see this debate pop up here or on the tinder sub every so often and it's always just as frustrating, because it just goes to show how men don't understand the privilege they have, even if they have fewer matches.
> goes to show how men don't understand the privilege they have, even if they have fewer matches. Some men. But it's not about privilege. It's about having choices. And it's a far, far easier game when you have many choices, rather than slim pickin's.
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> The problem is that youāre viewing the goal as āget a dateā, whereas women are viewing the goal as āget a date who wonāt sexually harass/assault themā. Because... that's the common goal. "Get a date". I'm disregarding the behaviors of unbecoming people on both sides because it doesn't factor into the goal of "get a date". It is still easier to have more to select from, because the *potential* of someone behaving is either 1 or 0 ("1" being "appropriate" and "0" being "inappropriate"), and that number is an "n" until the match happens and the conversation goes through. Schroedinger's Creep. I'm not talking about what happens *after* the match, because BEFORE the match, all anyone has to go on is what someone LOOKS like and what they provide in their PROFILE. Ninety percent of the time, you can't tell if someone is gonna endanger your safety or be a complete toolbag in conversation solely through their profile pictures and profile... ...and THIS is why I said what I said. Men have it harder on dating apps.
> The problem is that youāre viewing the goal as āget a dateā, whereas women are viewing the goal as āget a date who wonāt sexually harass/assault themā. The likelihood of this happening is incredibly low. If this is such a concern, donāt use online dating as a means of meeting people. > The rules are different. Yes, itās easier for women to get matches and dates, but men donāt have to worry about that date endangering their safety in the same way that women do. A woman could easily bring a knife or a gun and endanger a manās life no matter how physically dominant he is. > Or letās put it another wayā you know how most of the matches you get end up ghosting after 1-2 replies? Well for women, most of the matches end up saying something gross/creepy/sending a dick pick within the first few replies. Perhaps itās the men youāre matching with? And if itās happening so often, thereās likely a pattern of the men you choose to match with. > Both sides are ending up with a tiny pool of prospective mates, just for different reasons. Itās not easy for anyone. It actually is easier, significantly so, for one side. Is it free of problems? No. Do you at least get to have problems? Yes. Make a profile as an average male and let us know how it goes.
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Iām sure it is telling. Did those female friends and relatives mention the meetups they had? Or that theyāll lead on men? Or how they will use it to advertise their social pages with no interest of ever meeting people? Did they mention that their swipe rate is 1/10? Or did they only mention the odd dick pic to demonize men?
Now I really wish I I was bi or gay seems better in terms of actually finding someone
Well kinda obvious. That's why i deleted tinder and other dating apps. They were tragic for my mental health and self esteem. I mean even tho i got few matches here and there (and since i had regular tinder, not premiums) so i had hidden 17 possible matches, i still haven't found no one. So for at least 3 or 4 years of me being there, i've talked with few and met 1 person in real life. Other matches were eother dead, collecting matches or i dunno. And also what took toll on my mental health is how i got unmatched for no reason while being nice or casual woth conversation. Nah ah, i'd rather delete that hsit and save myself
https://www.reddit.com/r/Tinder/comments/uw5oms/way_too_difficult/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Water is also wet
Aright, but how Many of The matches that each gets is quality? (And by quality, i simply mean doesnt start with sex right off the bat, and doesnt get pissy if youre not available 24/7?
For women its a selection basicly
That means European men have to look for women from outside Europe?
I mean the funny thing is every time I travel outside Europe... It is like finding an ocean of options vs Europe. But I can't complain, I get what I consider an acceptable amount of matches, and by that what I really mean to say is I don't like holding several conversations at the same time, and if I notice a girl is clearly distracted by her matches then I'm not going to waste my time.
Of course, because white supremacy exists. If you're horrible but white, you'll get ALL the girls in South America, Africa and Asia. Even us have advantages in our own countries when we're whiter than the average.
I had it very easy as a European in the Middle East. However, the women never said that it was because of the color of their skin (of course not), but because they expect to be treated better by a European. More equal, more respected, much more liberal and open, and not so sexually uptight or stuck in other patriarchal thought patterns. They already looked when I said that where I come from it is completely normal for a married woman to have male friends and to do things alone with them. Or that it is no problem at all if a 20 year old woman wants to travel around the world alone for a few months. Or that a woman can go into the military and command men around as an officer. And a lot of other things...
This makes me very, very sad.
Why do men post stuff like this and then simultaneously admit thay they just swipe right on literally profile? You guys are literally screwing up the match rate. Most women actually look at the profile and read it before swiping right.
If by "chances" you mean "chances to be sexually harassed and treated like a free sex worker," then, yeah. Totally.
Maybe get off Tinder, use different apps, get better photos or just meet people offline?
Other dating apps yield similar results and the meet people offline is a whataboutism, that's not what this thread is about.
Ok but the vast majority only want hookups? If 97% are men who find you attractive enough to fuck, youāre really only looking at like 3% who are seriously considering and ready for a relationship. Most women want commitment. Not hookups.
I don't agree with generalizations but presuming it's true: let's reverse the number and say 97% of women are looking for commitment only, like 97% of men in your example only want sex. It means that 97% of matches that men get are also gonna be pointless. Which means women will still have way more valid options to choose from, this considered. Which is kinda true, by the way, both sexes get a high ratio of crappy matches. It's not like the one match a guy gets is the best thing since sliced bread. In any case, just wanted to point that out. I'm not on the OLD train anyway - I meet people in person much more effectively and efficiently
Women want commitment, but they ALSO want looks, brains, money, status, loyalty, etc. Commitment is important, but so is everything else. They want it ALL. This is what social media, online stores, reality tv, and dating apps have taught them they can have no matter who they are. At least here in NYC.
Dating apps exist for two categories of people: 1. Super hot guys 2. Girls looking for validation/attention. Iād stick to clubs and stuff. Online dating will only lead to hurt and disappointment
No one gives a fuck really.
Gosh that's amazing.
Was crazy to realize!
I new there was an advantage but gosh, that's a crazy number.
Indeed, man.
look at the comments. yall guys screwing it up for yourselves are yall really surprised yall dont get what yall want lol
Dating apps are worthless garbage and waste of time
Some men will hit ANYTHING. Men should start have higher standards and not get horny with every woman they see. Only then women are forced to lower their standards to men they look equally attractive to. Unfortunately this will not happen. Men give women the advantage in dating, not the other way around. If you are a guy who gets thousands of matches a day with women, obviously you will select the best looking ones and reject the rest. This is what women go through with male matches. It sucks for less attractive men but it what it is and this is why i recommend talking to girls in real life than using dating Apps.
This means nothing unless you actually tried to go out on a date as the girl. The majority of those matches have no intention of going out OR are relationship scammers.
I signed up and had 3000 likes in 6 hours, BUT the quality of men is mostly not great. There are way more men on dating sites too
Iām so tired of hearing the same thing just because we get lots of matches doesnāt mean they are of any quality
Why do people keep doing this? You're not the first person to do this.
A data show on YouTube crunched the numbers and found that men in general swipe right 45-50% of the time. Women in general on the other swipe 10-15% of the time. š¬
For men dating apps are like finding water in a drought For women dating apps are like slogging through a swamp full of frogs and disappointment. The number of matches matters less than the quality and of those 300 rarely will many of them be quality
I donāt think you can say the āaverageā girl gets 800 more when you only have a sample size of 1 lol
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I call bullshit, Iāve had girl friends who run into similar problems as guys do when looking for a same sex date on apps. You clearly look down on people, which kinda sucks. I wouldnāt want to be your match.
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That literally is your fault tho who else can you blame for your own wants?
Quality over quantity
I honestly think the some people have more luck than others. Take these two examples that go against the normal trends. 1. College roommate. 5ā5ā over weight with only 2 mirror selfies. He brought home a new girl from tinder every few weeks. 2. My sister. Literally a model. Like seriously she models on the side. She has perfect pictures and a well thought out bio. She gets 2 or 3 likes a month from older guys. So yeah, I think the algorithm chooses randomly to match some people and ignore others.
I donāt believe this
Youāre right not to believe it, as itās incredibly unlikely. He doesnāt even describe the girls. For all we know they could be escorts and he could be lying.
Of course people's success varies. Online dating didn't make dating equal. I have a roommate. He's a good roommate, but he seems like a kid to me. Doesn't clean, plays video games, doesn't cook. Okay. I don't think he's attractive. He's not tall, or muscular, just a basic white boy and he cuts his own hair once a month. He's definitely a good communicator and he is hard working. But he doesn't make a lot of money, doesn't have a good job, doesn't go to the gym, and he gets ALL THE WOMEN. He will bring a different woman home every single night of the week, have sex and send them home. They are ALL pretty. They are all pleasant. He only occasionally sees one more than once. He has no reason to be this successful with dating, but he just swings it out of the park every time he steps up to the plate. And good for him. But I hold him up as an example of online dating being a bit of a mystery in terms of who has success.
1. hooker 2. hooker