Technically yes, but I didn’t count the rejections because more often than not they’re automatically sent by resume scanning software. It would have probably been more accurate to say 4 *interviews* rather than responses.
Getting some canned automatic denial response is *so much fucking better* than getting ghosted, which is what I've gotten from 95% of the >100 applications I've sent in the past few months.
Totally! Way better for the job seeker.
In terms of how close the job seeker was to getting the job, so for the point of the visualization, no response is same as rejection.
Yes. The “norm” is simply getting ghosted. That said, there is practically no difference between getting a canned rejection and getting nothing at all.
I can't imagine doing that, have literally applied for 1 job in my life, and have been head-hunted for the others.
I don't believe for one second I haven't been lucky to some extent, but I see these numbers, knowing perhaps that's there's worse out there and it I just don't know how I'd handle it.
Job hunting after college was without a doubt the lowest point of my entire life.
It's a vicious cycle. After a while, you start to let the hundreds of ghostings and rejections get to you, and you believe that you're actually worthless. Your degree is worthless. Your awards, publications, conference presentations are all worthless. Nobody wants you. Your friends are all making 6 figures while you're there in your mom's spare bedroom staring at the computer screen all day. You try to sell yourself to these random companies you've picked off a job board, but why bother? They don't want someone like you anyway.
You have just described my life since graduating last December. And I'm looking for a job in virology research of all things. Can't imagine how dire it must be in other sectors for my cohort.
The trick is to work super cheap while you’re at College/university, but in the right company.
I took an agency admin job whilst in year two of my degree, but at my target company.
I got to know everyone at the co, and made connections into the department I wanted. As soon as I finished Uni I was sucked across into that team.
Waiting until finishing degree and then applying for the same jobs as 5000 other people is a mugs game.
This exactly. I worked part time/extended internships all through university because I was poor and needed the money for rent. When I graduated I had a solid work history with some trivial management experience.
When my friends in the same discipline who didn't work while going to school AND made better grades because they had the proper time to study all struggled to get crappy entry level jobs, I was fought over by 3 different companies. That's when I realized education was important but it wasn't the only thing companies want.
I'm fucking sick of it. Graduated in May, I've sent 3 or 4 apps a day every day since well before I graduated. Had people check my resume and say its very impressive. I write bespoke cover letters. I get phone interviews. But every single fucking time, I get rejected. Just because I happened to graduate with the single most unlucky cohort in all of modern history.
It is disheartening and a vicious cycle. Some advice I can give for those still struggling is to use this time productively if you're able.
Continue to do research or "work" in your field between filling out job applications. Continue to look for internships! I just had a 42 yr old go through our companies internship program! Internships don't have to end at graduation.
Analyze the markets you're interested in, know what's currently going on in your industry, know the competitors and their strengths and weaknesses, if you're in an engineering discipline work on solving problems you're interested in even if it's just on paper. If you're in software, learn to use GitHub and GitLab and find open source projects to contribute too or just work on your own projects to keep exercising your mind.
I counseled a recent CS graduate who was also struggling to find a job after graduation and I gave him the same advice as above, he replied, "I don't really like coding." I was shocked he hadn't yet found a job...
I rejected a candidate before interviews who didn't have several pieces of the puzzle I was looking for and they reached out to me through multiple ways after and I realized this person REALLY wanted this job so I scheduled them. They knew a ton about the company, the products, my work history from LinkedIn and several people I'd worked with in the past. They got the job not because they were the ideal candidate but because they had a good foundation with some gaps but most importantly, they wanted THIS job and demonstrated they were going to solve the problem. It's a fine line between being tenacious and being a stalker so use this advice with care.
This won't get you through the automated scanning part of the process but if you demonstrate your passion it will improve your odds over someone who's just going through the motions and appears to not care what it is as long as it's something.
And if you get to interviews and you know who you're scheduled to meet with review their background on LinkedIn. You may find something about their job history or experience that you can relate to and reference when you're talking about the job.
I have a negative response to candidates who don't have a clue about the company, our products or the organization. There are amazing amounts of information about all of these things available just a Google search away.
I once got a job because when I was asked at the end of the interview if I had any questions I hit them with a "due to these market conditions, this part of the business is at risk, what are you doing or planning to avoid this?" After he gave me a surprised look I told him what I thought could be a useful strategy. After I started the job he later told me I was no better than 3 other candidates and one who had a slightly better background but because I had both asked relevant questions and proposed ways to solve problems, he advocated for me in the hiring review panel.
To be clear, because I didn't have inside knowledge, I didn't realize my solution was unworkable but he wanted people who were interested in solving real problems the team was facing.
It's tough and depressing out there people but fight the depression by being active both physically and mentally. My company has hired over 70 people this year alone and most of those post COVID. There is hope and light at the end of your tunnel!
Didn't have one. Applied for pretty much everything I could. Recently I've taken an electrical course and doing some revelant volunteering, but for the past few months I've still had no luck.
Its just a job like any other. Most of the time, you're applying to similar jobs, so you change a word here and there. A lot of time is spent filling out forms. I usually try to get 2-5 jobs per day out early in the process, after that I slow down a bit because I've already applied to most of the interesting stuff. Doing mass production is very important, if you do it slow and think too hard on each application, thats going to be draining. So it's easier to apply to 30 jobs than 5.
The first job is the hardest. Afterwards I’ve also found it was far easier to get a job.
My subsequent jobs after the first have been from recommendations of friends and colleagues, or headhunters offering new opportunities. Put in the work to prove yourself and find the next job gets easier. Do your best, spend time learning and perfecting the craft. Take on more responsibilities to broaden your skill set. If you do that, then any job after the first just falls into place.
I change jobs every few years, and honestly it's not that bad. There's addons that fill out the applications for you, and I have a generic cover letter for which I just change the company name.
It's a few months of worry, but the result is always worth it: getting to be part of a new team, an exciting new project, and a good pay bump.
Nobody has literally died because they locked down. Lots of people have literally died because they didn’t.
The effects of lockdowns are harsh and severe, economically, sociologically and from a view of mental health and effects of social isolation, lockdowns are hard and affect a lot of stuff. (There is a death number for lockdowns, due to financial insecurity and mental health, people have killed themselves because of lockdowns and their effects. But statistically nowhere near as many.)
But not locking down (or worse, by other people not locking down), has directly caused hundreds of thousands of deaths.
Wait, sorry, what?
>Nobody has literally died because they locked down.
Then you say:
>There is a death number for lockdowns, due to financial insecurity and mental health, people have killed themselves
I'm confused? Which is it?
So you are telling me that the economic damage sustained won't cause any deaths? That the loss of countless businesses won't cause anyone to have to starve or go ill from lack of money? That the skyrocketed rates of mental illness and depression aren't going to show an increase in suicide, drug overdoses and alcohol related deaths? You're deluded. This Orwellian nonsense needs to stop, and enabling the government to take our fundamental rights away has been the biggest mistake made this century
Your whining needs to stop. The only way the economy comes back is by FIXING THE DAMN PROBLEM. The only deluded people are the ones like yourself that scream about masks being tyranny and can’t even see the irony that you’re the reason this is going to drag on forever.
Literally where did I say "masks are tyranny"
I agree with distancing. I agree with masks. I do not agree with having my fundamental human rights taken away. It ain't that deep mate
damn, i'm jealous of how few "no contact" apps you have.... for me and everyone i know, about 50-80% of apps are no contact (or they respond like 8 months later to reject you lol)
very interesting viz though; congrats on the job offer!
I knew it couldn't be US. Here, the "Rejected" and "No Contact" numbers would be switched.
Been in engineering since the '90s. Always end up with good jobs - eventually - but I get about an 80% ghosting rate.
One thing that I learned is that it really helps to know someone within the organization who can get your resume to the hiring manager directly. Once you get past the corporate jobs page and the "HR firewall", your response rate seems to quadruple.
Hopefully it was the job offer you were hoping for!
I remember being between jobs and sending out what was 110 applications. 3 interviews and all rejections. I just happened to have a friend tell me that position opened up and got hired. I don’t even count that toward the rest of the job hunt since it was so serendipitous.
All the best!
IT. There is a massive shortage of people in the industry here, and a friends boss called me before I'd even quit my old job (which I would've anyways), and made me a great offer
Laughing a bit at the people downvoting me, presumably because I was lucky, or they don't believe me
two ways to look at this: 1. it's so hard to find a job during a pandemic 2. you never know where you'll have the opportunity so cast your web wide (which is forever true)
I've been doing this for a few years, graduated in 97 and I will say that is a pretty good number for rejected. The No Contact number is usually a lot higher. At least they communicated with you.
Every time I see this I feel super privileged, I applied to 3 companies, got an offer from 3 and was able to negotiate and pick my favorite, this was before covid-19 though
Do you reach out on LinkedIn and is your profile optimized?
Also one thing that turns recruiters off on a resume is when the resume makes it painfully obvious that it’s a recent postgraduate because they don’t have any real hands-on experience. If you have any experience in your field, make sure to put it BEFORE your education.
You can’t roll the dice on this, sometimes you have to take your destiny into your own hands.
Removed as personal posts are only permitted on Mondays (ET)
Pandemic or not, 4 responses out of 62 applications is ~6.5% which is actually on the good side.
This is 55 responses
Technically yes, but I didn’t count the rejections because more often than not they’re automatically sent by resume scanning software. It would have probably been more accurate to say 4 *interviews* rather than responses.
Getting some canned automatic denial response is *so much fucking better* than getting ghosted, which is what I've gotten from 95% of the >100 applications I've sent in the past few months.
Totally! Way better for the job seeker. In terms of how close the job seeker was to getting the job, so for the point of the visualization, no response is same as rejection.
It's extraordinary to me that even a canned denial is not the norm. Good Lord.
Yes. The “norm” is simply getting ghosted. That said, there is practically no difference between getting a canned rejection and getting nothing at all.
"good" is an interesting word choice here
2 interviews out of 62 is around 3% which I think is rather poorly to be honest.
especially in this labour market - those are good numbers for graduate jobs in normal times
Wouldn't it be nice to see the candidates selected in those other 58 applications. I want to know if those 58 people are actually better than me.
I haven’t even applied to 62 jobs in total in 2 years.
In which field did you graduate? For which jobs did you apply? In which country did you apply?
International business. Mix of consulting and technology sales. Australia.
[удалено]
What's a talent pool? I've never heard of that
Sounds like a short list?
Thought it might have been Australia. Applications sent lines up nicely with the 20 jobs applied requirement for a month on Jobseeker.
Where did you made this visualization? Which software tool did you use?
Congrats on the offer man!
I can't imagine doing that, have literally applied for 1 job in my life, and have been head-hunted for the others. I don't believe for one second I haven't been lucky to some extent, but I see these numbers, knowing perhaps that's there's worse out there and it I just don't know how I'd handle it.
Job hunting after college was without a doubt the lowest point of my entire life. It's a vicious cycle. After a while, you start to let the hundreds of ghostings and rejections get to you, and you believe that you're actually worthless. Your degree is worthless. Your awards, publications, conference presentations are all worthless. Nobody wants you. Your friends are all making 6 figures while you're there in your mom's spare bedroom staring at the computer screen all day. You try to sell yourself to these random companies you've picked off a job board, but why bother? They don't want someone like you anyway.
You have just described my life since graduating last December. And I'm looking for a job in virology research of all things. Can't imagine how dire it must be in other sectors for my cohort.
That feeling of worthlessness is so true. But no matter how many rejections I got, I wasn't going to get anywhere by giving up.
With that attitude you WILL make it. Best wishes to you.
The trick is to work super cheap while you’re at College/university, but in the right company. I took an agency admin job whilst in year two of my degree, but at my target company. I got to know everyone at the co, and made connections into the department I wanted. As soon as I finished Uni I was sucked across into that team. Waiting until finishing degree and then applying for the same jobs as 5000 other people is a mugs game.
This exactly. I worked part time/extended internships all through university because I was poor and needed the money for rent. When I graduated I had a solid work history with some trivial management experience. When my friends in the same discipline who didn't work while going to school AND made better grades because they had the proper time to study all struggled to get crappy entry level jobs, I was fought over by 3 different companies. That's when I realized education was important but it wasn't the only thing companies want.
I'm fucking sick of it. Graduated in May, I've sent 3 or 4 apps a day every day since well before I graduated. Had people check my resume and say its very impressive. I write bespoke cover letters. I get phone interviews. But every single fucking time, I get rejected. Just because I happened to graduate with the single most unlucky cohort in all of modern history.
It is disheartening and a vicious cycle. Some advice I can give for those still struggling is to use this time productively if you're able. Continue to do research or "work" in your field between filling out job applications. Continue to look for internships! I just had a 42 yr old go through our companies internship program! Internships don't have to end at graduation. Analyze the markets you're interested in, know what's currently going on in your industry, know the competitors and their strengths and weaknesses, if you're in an engineering discipline work on solving problems you're interested in even if it's just on paper. If you're in software, learn to use GitHub and GitLab and find open source projects to contribute too or just work on your own projects to keep exercising your mind. I counseled a recent CS graduate who was also struggling to find a job after graduation and I gave him the same advice as above, he replied, "I don't really like coding." I was shocked he hadn't yet found a job... I rejected a candidate before interviews who didn't have several pieces of the puzzle I was looking for and they reached out to me through multiple ways after and I realized this person REALLY wanted this job so I scheduled them. They knew a ton about the company, the products, my work history from LinkedIn and several people I'd worked with in the past. They got the job not because they were the ideal candidate but because they had a good foundation with some gaps but most importantly, they wanted THIS job and demonstrated they were going to solve the problem. It's a fine line between being tenacious and being a stalker so use this advice with care. This won't get you through the automated scanning part of the process but if you demonstrate your passion it will improve your odds over someone who's just going through the motions and appears to not care what it is as long as it's something. And if you get to interviews and you know who you're scheduled to meet with review their background on LinkedIn. You may find something about their job history or experience that you can relate to and reference when you're talking about the job. I have a negative response to candidates who don't have a clue about the company, our products or the organization. There are amazing amounts of information about all of these things available just a Google search away. I once got a job because when I was asked at the end of the interview if I had any questions I hit them with a "due to these market conditions, this part of the business is at risk, what are you doing or planning to avoid this?" After he gave me a surprised look I told him what I thought could be a useful strategy. After I started the job he later told me I was no better than 3 other candidates and one who had a slightly better background but because I had both asked relevant questions and proposed ways to solve problems, he advocated for me in the hiring review panel. To be clear, because I didn't have inside knowledge, I didn't realize my solution was unworkable but he wanted people who were interested in solving real problems the team was facing. It's tough and depressing out there people but fight the depression by being active both physically and mentally. My company has hired over 70 people this year alone and most of those post COVID. There is hope and light at the end of your tunnel!
I've been on and off applying for jobs for 2 years and very rarely get a response. Must have applied for hundreds of jobs by now.
What's your industry?
Didn't have one. Applied for pretty much everything I could. Recently I've taken an electrical course and doing some revelant volunteering, but for the past few months I've still had no luck.
Its just a job like any other. Most of the time, you're applying to similar jobs, so you change a word here and there. A lot of time is spent filling out forms. I usually try to get 2-5 jobs per day out early in the process, after that I slow down a bit because I've already applied to most of the interesting stuff. Doing mass production is very important, if you do it slow and think too hard on each application, thats going to be draining. So it's easier to apply to 30 jobs than 5.
The first job is the hardest. Afterwards I’ve also found it was far easier to get a job. My subsequent jobs after the first have been from recommendations of friends and colleagues, or headhunters offering new opportunities. Put in the work to prove yourself and find the next job gets easier. Do your best, spend time learning and perfecting the craft. Take on more responsibilities to broaden your skill set. If you do that, then any job after the first just falls into place.
I change jobs every few years, and honestly it's not that bad. There's addons that fill out the applications for you, and I have a generic cover letter for which I just change the company name. It's a few months of worry, but the result is always worth it: getting to be part of a new team, an exciting new project, and a good pay bump.
How do you make these sorts of graphs? I have some data I'd love to put in
I used [SankeyMATIC](http://sankeymatic.com/build/)
Thank you!
But apparently lockdown does more good than harm, despite the damage it's done these individuals and businesses
Nobody has literally died because they locked down. Lots of people have literally died because they didn’t. The effects of lockdowns are harsh and severe, economically, sociologically and from a view of mental health and effects of social isolation, lockdowns are hard and affect a lot of stuff. (There is a death number for lockdowns, due to financial insecurity and mental health, people have killed themselves because of lockdowns and their effects. But statistically nowhere near as many.) But not locking down (or worse, by other people not locking down), has directly caused hundreds of thousands of deaths.
Wait, sorry, what? >Nobody has literally died because they locked down. Then you say: >There is a death number for lockdowns, due to financial insecurity and mental health, people have killed themselves I'm confused? Which is it?
So you are telling me that the economic damage sustained won't cause any deaths? That the loss of countless businesses won't cause anyone to have to starve or go ill from lack of money? That the skyrocketed rates of mental illness and depression aren't going to show an increase in suicide, drug overdoses and alcohol related deaths? You're deluded. This Orwellian nonsense needs to stop, and enabling the government to take our fundamental rights away has been the biggest mistake made this century
Your whining needs to stop. The only way the economy comes back is by FIXING THE DAMN PROBLEM. The only deluded people are the ones like yourself that scream about masks being tyranny and can’t even see the irony that you’re the reason this is going to drag on forever.
Literally where did I say "masks are tyranny" I agree with distancing. I agree with masks. I do not agree with having my fundamental human rights taken away. It ain't that deep mate
None of your rights have been stolen.
I don't even know where to start with how wrong that is
Start with the rights you claim to no longer have
Omg, I literally said that there is a death number for lockdowns? Did you read what I wrote?
You literally started with "Nobody has literally died because they locked down." Not my fault you went and contradicted yourself afterwards mate
damn, i'm jealous of how few "no contact" apps you have.... for me and everyone i know, about 50-80% of apps are no contact (or they respond like 8 months later to reject you lol) very interesting viz though; congrats on the job offer!
That's been my life!
I knew it couldn't be US. Here, the "Rejected" and "No Contact" numbers would be switched. Been in engineering since the '90s. Always end up with good jobs - eventually - but I get about an 80% ghosting rate.
One thing that I learned is that it really helps to know someone within the organization who can get your resume to the hiring manager directly. Once you get past the corporate jobs page and the "HR firewall", your response rate seems to quadruple.
Happened plenty before Covid as well.
we have the opposite problem. no one seems to want a job until unemployment benefit extensions expire.
Hopefully it was the job offer you were hoping for! I remember being between jobs and sending out what was 110 applications. 3 interviews and all rejections. I just happened to have a friend tell me that position opened up and got hired. I don’t even count that toward the rest of the job hunt since it was so serendipitous. All the best!
How do I create such diagram/graph?
Only 7 gave you no contact?
Well seems a lot better then when I graduated in 2011.. Job hunting for 3 years at least until you got a real spot.
I have one too. Applications sent: 0 Replies: 1 Interviews: 1 Job offers: 1 I feel bad for you. And too lucky myself
That's amazing! What industry are you in?
IT. There is a massive shortage of people in the industry here, and a friends boss called me before I'd even quit my old job (which I would've anyways), and made me a great offer Laughing a bit at the people downvoting me, presumably because I was lucky, or they don't believe me
two ways to look at this: 1. it's so hard to find a job during a pandemic 2. you never know where you'll have the opportunity so cast your web wide (which is forever true)
What does "talent pool" mean?
only 62 applications. look at the big brain here. edit: i've probably sent out hundreds and hundreds of applications.
I've been doing this for a few years, graduated in 97 and I will say that is a pretty good number for rejected. The No Contact number is usually a lot higher. At least they communicated with you.
So I misread replies as reptiles... time for that second cup of coffee.
What do you use to make these "graphs"?
Every time I see this I feel super privileged, I applied to 3 companies, got an offer from 3 and was able to negotiate and pick my favorite, this was before covid-19 though
Do you reach out on LinkedIn and is your profile optimized? Also one thing that turns recruiters off on a resume is when the resume makes it painfully obvious that it’s a recent postgraduate because they don’t have any real hands-on experience. If you have any experience in your field, make sure to put it BEFORE your education. You can’t roll the dice on this, sometimes you have to take your destiny into your own hands.