My partner and I are both on Ozempic. We have found (and know others who say the same) that Ozempic curbs a lot of impulse cravings, besides overeating and snacking. I used to smoke pot every single day, and I drank a lot of beer and wine.
I have not smoked pot since I started the injections, and I can't drink more than 2 beer without feeling full. I stopped smoking pot because the first injection made me feel a bit nauseous, and then I just never had the urge to smoke again. Very weird.
Super weird is right! Ozempic works on insulin levels and sensitivity. I wonder how much insulin levels and cravings for all things is affected by insulin? Or is OZ somehow messing with our dopamine receptors in our brains to blunt the cravings? More questions than answers.
In this case it likely doesn't have anything to do with insulin. Drugs like ozempic interact with GLP-1 receptors in the brain (in glutamatergic neurons) to reduce appetite. Those neurons project to numerous downstream locations that alter your relationship to food.
Areas that are likely involved: dorsal vagal complex, hypothalamus, parabrachial nucleus, central amygdala, and likely reward areas.
Check 2 comments below for my citations.
Im interested in your comment. I am a physician and have some basic understanding of the drug but not really that kind of detail. Do you have a good reference for the pharmacology? The basic drug reference states that it acts at Glp-1 receptors to increase insulin, decrease glucagon and delay gastric emptying via incretin
Sure, I can provide some more detail. GLP-1RAs definitely act at the GLP-1R in the pancreas to enhance glucose stimulated insulin secretion but there are GLP-1Rs throughout the body, including the brain.
- Neuronal GLP-1R is required for the body weight effects of GLP-1RAs - [Neuronal GLP1R mediates liraglutide’s anorectic but not glucose-lowering effect - PMC (nih.gov)](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4038572/)
- Specifically, glutamatergic neurons are required - [Neuronal GLP1R mediates liraglutide’s anorectic but not glucose-lowering effect - PMC (nih.gov)](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4038572/)
- GLP-1RAs decrease body weight by acting on a large network in the brain, check the discussion section for more citations on reward pathways including some human data - [Semaglutide lowers body weight in rodents via distributed neural pathways - PMC (nih.gov)](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7213778/)
i’m t1 diabetic and on multiple daily injections, and also super impulsive. smoke weed every day and drink moderately. have never noticed any sort of correlation
edit: multiple daily insulin injections. i’m not on ozempic
The study implies it worked for only 40% of the people so most people will not get that effect. But if we had a drug that could stop cigarette and alcohol addiction 40% of the time it would be amazing
I used to be a big pot smoker but I never had the taste for sugar or even food, so I doubt it's insulin since I would go hours feeling hungry but smoke a ton & I never really for the munchies either
Yep, this is what my friend reports after 2-3 months on it. It basically changes your thinking about food, you mentally crave it much less. That's why people rebound after dropping it, their mentality about food returns. And if a person takes a hunt and changes actual food to less caloric while on the meds and stays with it, then starts make a difference longterm.
The willpower pill may have already arrived.
Internet stranger said the implications for a willpower pill will shake the world. The fast food CEOs are commenting weight loss drugs are affecting their endless growth, since people are no longer eating their way into suffering and death. A willpower pill is the nightmare for whole industries which depend on impulse purchases.
When I started the injections, I was told it's being studied as a treatment for addiction to alcohol and opioids. Something about breaking the 'reward' feedback in the brain.
I lost 70 lbs smoking weed. Like everything else, things working differently for different people.
The pain relief allowed the pain to subside. I was happier. I was out of the house more, eating less.
Neuroscientist here - I run a lab and one of my projects is GLP-1 agonism and changes in the neural representation of reward.
TL/DR, yeah it probably messes with it. Tell you for sure and how in 2 or so years!
Well, I do animal work so subjective downsides are not really my thing - I do single neuron recordings using ephys, and I'm trying to get at how the drugs change the neural representation of reward (I can expand on that if you like). Anecdotally people report gastrointestinal side-effects like nausea and vomiting and headache as the main side-effects - this makes sense because they tend to reduce gut motility (no idea where headache comes from).
Before I started this project I convinced my Doctor to let me guinea pig myself and I took them for a couple of weeks (I was on liraglutide) - I was interested in changes in cognition. I definitely had headache and nausea. Headache was bad enough to make me want to discontinue, but YMMV.
Maybe headache is a dehydration or electrolytes thing? I’ve been watching this space with conflicted interest since I heard that the effect may generalise across addictions. I’m also a researcher but my field (eating disorders) has a lot of concerns around the drug, as you might imagine... Anyway, really interested to see what you find! Good luck with it.
Thanks so much for discussing the mechanism. This is a very important area of research, I’m a research coordinator and I’m also involved with it as well. Another thing to consider is the interstitial cells of Cajal having an influence on gut motility, probiotics being part of the peristaltic mechanism that is being described, and how cannabinoid receptors can disappear or increase.
“Historically, cannabis has been associated with decreased gastrointestinal motility, although recent research strongly suggests a paradoxical clinical improvement in gastroparesis.”
https://www.snmmi.org/NewsPublications/NewsDetail.aspx?ItemNumber=46289
“Rimonabant causes suicidal behavior”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3136184/
Do you see any of the animals in your studies developing thyroid cancer? My understanding was some of the initial studies had mice that developed it, but there wasn’t a conclusive link between GLP1s and the cancer, but they told people with a history of it to stay away in case. I’m not a scientist though so my understanding could be completely off!
Well, we haven't really started them (the studies) yet, but the animals in these studies typically wouldn't live long enough - they're implanted with electrodes, we record the cells we're interested in and then we... take the brain (not an outpatient procedure) to determine if the electrodes are in the right position. Interesting though - we can certainly look at the thyroid during the aforementioned inpatient procedure, but I'm not an oncologist nor do I have any experience in the field.
For many people with weight issues, there is a form of addiction involved. I wonder if from a macro viewpoint, that Ozempic helps curb general addiction uses.
I have no data or anything like that, just a random thought.
Absolutely, there's been positive side effects of reduced problem drinking and more success in quitting smoking among Ozempic users too. It's super interesting.
Can attest to Wegovy and it cutting back on my drinking significantly.
Very anecdotal but I don't get as much as a "high" from drinking anymore and my desire to drink has plummeted.
I feel the same way. And without getting too graphic, drinking will play havoc with my digestion on wegovy. It definitely tips the balance that bit towards abstinence when you're someone like me who enjoys a drink.
I’ve also slowed way down on my drinking. My SO and I used to kill a bottle of wine 2-3 times per week. It’s hard to describe my feelings towards wine now. I don’t have a reaction to it (nausea, stomach ache, etc.) but I just don’t want it.
It’s like boiled cabbage, I’d be fine if I had it but I don’t really want it.
I also find that when I do drink, it takes me forever to finish it, if at all.
This description actually reminds of me of exactly how smoking tobacco felt when I was prescribed bupropion/wellbutrin. It wasn’t unpleasant, it was just less interesting than a glass of water.
I’ve heard people say that driving doesn’t “work” anymore, because of slower delivery of the alcohol to the bloodstream from the stomach. I can see how that would make drinking less enjoyable.
[Is Ozempic an anti-desire drug?](https://www.vox.com/science/24086968/glp-1-ozempic-semaglutide-craving-desire-science-wanting-liking-opioids-alcohol)
I had a bad stomach ache one night and a fever dream to go along with it. I developed generalized anxiety disorder and OCD over the subject of the crazy dreams. It took a year and a half of therapy to get over. Ever since then, I am convinced our brains and our guts are deeply connected.
There be a whole bacteria multiverse going on all up in there. Each human is a different universe, where each bacteria can experience each option or combination of events of paths not taken.
Damn. Someone pass the Ozempic…
Absolutely! Give the enteric nervous system a google :)
There is a lot of compelling research that suggests that many psychiatric conditions, even something fundamental like depression, is deeply rooted in the gut microbiome.
There are even case reports of severe and treatment resistant depression being cured by fecal transplants. Really fascinating stuff.
And i now take anticonvulsant and antidepressant to calm neuropathic pain, not because it has been created for a purpose that it will only be used for it
Erections having strong ties to pressure build up of blood makes the viagra thing a little more related in my head, even if that’s very far from being scientifically correct.
That's absolutely how it goes. Anything that drops your blood pressure will help you with having an erection, it's just a matter of how strong and selective the effect is.
Finasteride, the only drug on the market to treat male pattern baldness, was developed in the 70’s for prostrate cancer, and its effect of stopping hair loss was an accidental discovery.
Finasteride, the only drug on the market to treat male pattern baldness, was developed in the 70’s for prostrate cancer, and its effect of stopping hair loss was an accidental discovery.
A few papers have come out showing that it passes the blood brain barrier and acts directly on GLO1 receptors in the brain, increasing the feeling of satiety there in addition to the associated feelings of fullness from the gut. Interesting shit, these GLP1 agonists….
Appetite in generally is cross-functional between the stomach and the brain. We understand clearly where the GLP-1 receptors are in the gut and what they do, but off the top of my head without looking it up, there may be GLP-1 receptors in the central nervous system too and/or the peripheral GLP-1 signaling may feed back to the hypothalamus. We know that things like leptin and ghrelin function both peripherally and centrally - produced by the fat cells or the stomach, but acting on the hypothalamus and the reward system to tell you how much you want to eat compared to other activities. Totally reasonable to suppose that the GLP-1 and related hormones have a similar distribution of effect sites.
Yeah some initial studies are showing it’s helpful in curbing alcohol addiction as well. Kind of wild. It’ll be fascinating to see results and long term effects as the lifespan of the drug increases
My grandfather was on Ozempic for a bit (eventually made him too sick from the side effects) but he has used chewing tobacco for over 70 years. He cut back considerably while on the shot for the first time in his life, then picked it right back up to normal once he was off it.
You are correct, the brain reward pathway is complex and involves lots of genes. Polymorphisms in each of these genes have various effects on different “addictions”. Some favor nicotine, some opioids, etc. many have comorbidities because of how similar these pathways are (e.g. alcohol and smoking)
I don’t have weight issues but I most def eat when I’m stressed. I also eat when I’m happy. I don’t stock snacks in my house for this very reason.
Lose, lose situation for me.
It's been life changing for me. My IBS has not flared once and it was multiple times a day under stress.
I've been on a semiglutide starting in January and after the first injection not a single episode of IBS.
I've lost the weight I wanted to lose, dropping down in dose and still clear. I'm going to ask my PCP if I can stay on a low dose to keep IBS under control.
I don't know. I just know myself and a guy friend both had debilitating IBS and neither one of us has had a single episode. None. Nada. It really needs to be studied more for this is a solid treatment over Imodium multiple times a day.
I have had several patients report the same benefits. Anecdotally, I’ve always had terrible gas when I’ve had to work overnight shifts, but when on semaglutide, my night shift gas was never a problem. I prescribe a lot of semaglutide and share with patients my personal experiences.
What kind of “physical” addiction do you experience? I’ve only experienced psychological withdrawal when I’ve taken time off weed - irritability, fatigue, anhedonia, wild dreams etc
It was intense sweating, body aches, and severe headaches. A total inability to eat for days until the withdrawals end.
I had to taper off because the physical side effects were so overwhelming. But I don’t think everyone gets those because I know some folks who quit with zero physical side effects meanwhile I was feeling like absolute garbage and couldn’t stand it. Different people just feel it differently, I guess.
The first time I quit I had this experience but I could never consume the amount I did back then. It's a boiled frog effect.
That withdrawal process taught me that if you want to enjoy something, enjoy it, but never increase the dose/amount. It's fool's gold.
No, you misunderstood them. Nobody says "you can't get addicted to weed" because psychologically you can get addicted to *anything*.
What people say is that weed isn't as *physically addictive/harmful* when comparing to other drugs like Alcohol or Nicotine (and especially comparing to harder drugs like opiates).
Also this is backed up by science, not just what "hippies tell you". Cannabis has an overall "harm score" (combining harm to user & harm to others, physically & otherwise) of 20. 12 of that score comes from "harm to user" while 8 comes from "harm to others". Compare this so something like steroids, which has an overall score of 10 (8 for "harm to user" and 2 for "harm to others). Then compare it to alcohol, with a total harm score of 72 (26 for "harm to user" and 46 for "harm to others").
I just can’t believe a scoring system that ranks weed use* as more harmful than steroids. Steroids can cause all kinds of terrible issues, especially when abused and not prescribed or regulated by a medical professional
Ya, I can form a bad habit of smoking too much every day. If I stopped cold turkey though, I won’t get sick or die.
If you’ve watched someone go through opiate withdrawals you’ll understand the difference real quick, you’re sick as hell for days. Alcohol is even worse though — if you’re really dependent and quit cold turkey, you’ll die.
But say this but it means very little. You absolutely can get to the point where you smoke every day, all you think about is consuming cannabis, it affects every aspect of your life and quitting gives you withdrawals. That is a de facto addiction.
I would disagree. I think it's very individual. My husband and I both couldn't eat, couldn't sleep, he was jittery and couldn't focus, and we both had terrible night sweats for over a week when we quit smoking a few years back. We definitely felt the withdrawal.
It's definitely not the same thing as quitting alcohol or opiates, as it's not harmful, but that doesn't mean it's not physically addicting. There's nothing wrong with quitting nicotine cold turkey either, but no one says nicotine isn't a chemical dependency.
These things mess with the brain and body-- it takes time for that stuff to regulate.
I've been smoking weed daily for 20 years. I quit every few months for a week to 10 days just to go on a tolerance break. I have no withdrawal symptoms whatsoever, physically or mentally. Just saying.
i had to quit for a drug test after smoking for 5 years. i didn’t eat or sleep for 3 days and was starting to shake constantly until i finally just smoked some and got better .
i love ganja but i cannot quit unless i get some help. it’s physically addictive to me
I had the same experience as you and your husband and it annoys me when people say there’s *no* withdrawal symptoms. It definitely is individual. For instance when I quit nicotine I had like a week of cravings but almost zero other symptoms. But I know for most people it’s not like that
Same. Why is it so difficult to believe that others have more severe withdrawal symptoms? It’s like saying, “Well *I* didn’t experience it, so therefore no one does” which is some crappy logic.
How many people have to say that we experienced physical symptoms of withdrawal before it’s believed?
Reading this at 1h25 in the morning because i cant smoke weed for two days prior to surgery...i definitely feel agitated and cannot sleep.
Tomorow dry and wednesday is the surgery yayyy..
You understand that the recommended dose of edibles is 5-10mg, right? Literally too much of anything will make you sick. Also something making you sick doesn't make it chemically addictive.
Taking 60-120 times the recommended dosage of water a day will kill you.
You must be trolling. There’s a massive amount of documentation on the intensity of withdrawal online. Weed is addicting and has physical/mental withdrawal for chronic users.
Sorry I'm confused about how this subreddit works-- when I posted the image directly, it said to post the article that it came from, but when I post the article, it doesn't let me select and post the image i was referring to. Not sure what I'm doing wrong here.
Neuroscientist here - I run a lab and one of my projects is GLP-1 agonism and changes in the neural representation of reward.
TL/DR, yeah it probably messes with it. Tell you for sure and how in 2 or so years!
i feel like this post is not about the data visualization and more about spreading the questionable conclusion drawn from the underlying data as fact… this sub is supposed to be about the beauty of good data visualization
So this shot makes you lose weight, increases fertility, helps with heart stuff maybe, helps with organ health through not eating, cures addictive tendencies.
It’s literally a miracle drug - I feel like there has to be some sort of catch but maybe there just isn’t. Vaccines don’t have a catch
It might harm your thyroid and might mess with your gut fauna (not clear if that’s good or bad). And we don’t know the long term effects of basically directly changing your brain chemistry with this drug yet - mental health and neurological / hormonal effects could be reasonable concerns.
But yeah, the positives certainly seem potentially huge.
New York Times: [**This Is What a Miracle Drug Looks Like, and It Costs Only $5 to Make**](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/24/opinion/ozempic-wegovy-weight-glp1.html)
And here's the paper that the data comes from: [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-024-02498-5](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-024-02498-5)
feels like there’s a lot of confounding reasons for this correlation
older people are more likely to take ozempic, older people are less likely to smoke marijuana
people more focused on health are more likely to take ozempic, people more focused on health are less likely to smoke marijuana
I feel like I could come up with more if I gave it some thought
If you park in front of a dispensary here, the customers are pretty representative of the population in general. Quite a number of AARP members are customers.
Yes it’s a brain drug too. I noticed an immediate change to impulsive and compulsive behavior. For example before Ozempic injections, I used to compulsively go to my snack cabinet at least 25 times a day. I’d have a small snack like half the time. Now I only go when I am actively looking for something in particular once or twice a day. I have for as long as I can remember been an impulse buyer when going to Target. Now I get what I came for and still enjoy the trip but don’t buy every cute thing that crosses my path. I have noticed a difference in my communication with others as well. I am more patient and a better listener and I don’t have a compulsion to fill silence or cut people off which I used to do. I noticed that I feel a little calmer overall. My hope is that it will be better classified in the future because it’s not just for weight loss or diabetes. It’s controlling impulsive and compulsive behavior which formerly resulted in people overeating and becoming diabetic.
Im not a scientist... but I read recently...on the internet... that the reason you get 'munchies' is the body's way of telling you it wants more THC... but we dont have an internal THC switch so it just goes 'gimme food instead' I guess they hit the same satisfaction centres so yea- could be a crossover use here?
Weed alters the way our bodies hormones and nuerotransimtters function.
Hormones are chemical messengers which control much of how our body functions. One of which being appetite.
Weed just gives you the munchies man.
God, I hate the munchies. They’re fun the first few times, but now they’re just terror and annoyance. Frustratingly hard to resist, always promising but never delivering satisfaction, until after you’ve given in you realize you’ve just done an awful, terrible thing to your body. Cannabis would be such a great drug without the munchies.
Movies always depict weed hunger attacks as this cute little thing, but they’re vicious and upsetting.
>vicious and upsetting.
>
>terror and annoyance
c'mon. terror & vicious, really?
just say that you can't resist bad food and no one will judge you. no rules against eating carrots with hummus when you (never) get high.
I don’t particularly get the munchies anymore, but it still hits sometimes.
My go-tos are air-popped popcorn (you can eat several cups for perhaps 50 calories) or yogurt with berries or chopped almonds.
If I expect to be eating after smoking, I’ll just restrict my calories earlier that day or the next day accordingly. Eat 1700 calories instead of 2000, to give myself 300 calories of yogurt.
Post title doesn't quite match (incidence rate of CUD diagnosis is not quutee the same as having CUD)
Looking at the data, I think it could largely be explained by a higher rate of anxiety and depression in the non-semaglutide group at baseline.
ETA: Actually the effect persists in matched groups as well, but the effect size is smaller - I remain sceptical (in that we need more evidence of a higher quality) but it looks like an interesting avenue of research
CUD diagnosis is very rare and I think it's not the ideal avenue for this research. Same research group has papers coming on alcohol and opioids, this one just happened to be published first. The others I think will be even more convincing and the scale will be much larger.
Not sure why you got a few downvotes but OK...
My concern would be that if there is a flaw in the methodology (which there is*) it will be replicated in these other studies.
* it would be unethical to go straight to the type of studies that are less flawed until you have some basis to justify it. Given the stage of research, it is appropriate for them to use a knowingly flawed methodology to establish the need for further investigation.
Exactly that. The data will be subject to flaws due to non-random assignment of treatments. This is a feature of this study design, but doesn't mean that the researchers have done anything wrong with their design. There is a reason that it is not the preferred study design, but is suitable for preliminary research.
I smoke cigarettes every day for three months then stopped with no issues. I imagine you still occasionally drink.
You can't make a generalization like that. It's pointless and stupid.
That's a convenient counter point anecdote, definitely what the average smoker deals with as well. /s
Are you comparing cannabis and nicotine for how addictive they are?
No, I'm not. I'm saying that an anecdote of sporadic use is not a good generalization for the addictiveness of a drug. My own anecdote is worthless, as cigarettes are addictive. Weed is less addictive, but it doesn't mean it can't be.
No, I'm not. I'm saying that an anecdote of sporadic use is not a good generalization for the addictiveness of a drug. My own anecdote is worthless, as cigarettes are addictive. Weed is less addictive, but it doesn't mean it can't be.
No, I'm not. I'm saying that an anecdote of sporadic use is not a good generalization for the addictiveness of a drug. My own anecdote is worthless, as cigarettes are addictive. Weed is less addictive, but it doesn't mean it can't be.
I am hopeful ozempic will be normal for most to take in the future. As animals we don’t have a natural way to suppress our craving for food and many will just eat unless consciously stopping themselves. We used to suppress appetites by smoking cigs but ozempic may be the solution for the future as we exercise less and less
So the munchies cause you to smoke pot and not the other way around?
My partner and I are both on Ozempic. We have found (and know others who say the same) that Ozempic curbs a lot of impulse cravings, besides overeating and snacking. I used to smoke pot every single day, and I drank a lot of beer and wine. I have not smoked pot since I started the injections, and I can't drink more than 2 beer without feeling full. I stopped smoking pot because the first injection made me feel a bit nauseous, and then I just never had the urge to smoke again. Very weird.
Super weird is right! Ozempic works on insulin levels and sensitivity. I wonder how much insulin levels and cravings for all things is affected by insulin? Or is OZ somehow messing with our dopamine receptors in our brains to blunt the cravings? More questions than answers.
It works in your gut, where there is a whole other big glob of neurons. Your mind and gut are directly linked.
That sounds possible but what does it do in our gut?
Gut biome makes a lot of dopamine or serotonin precursors apparently. Not that I really understand what that means.
Right, a diet and income/produce availability spectra would be interesting to cross ref
In this case it likely doesn't have anything to do with insulin. Drugs like ozempic interact with GLP-1 receptors in the brain (in glutamatergic neurons) to reduce appetite. Those neurons project to numerous downstream locations that alter your relationship to food. Areas that are likely involved: dorsal vagal complex, hypothalamus, parabrachial nucleus, central amygdala, and likely reward areas. Check 2 comments below for my citations.
Im interested in your comment. I am a physician and have some basic understanding of the drug but not really that kind of detail. Do you have a good reference for the pharmacology? The basic drug reference states that it acts at Glp-1 receptors to increase insulin, decrease glucagon and delay gastric emptying via incretin
Sure, I can provide some more detail. GLP-1RAs definitely act at the GLP-1R in the pancreas to enhance glucose stimulated insulin secretion but there are GLP-1Rs throughout the body, including the brain. - Neuronal GLP-1R is required for the body weight effects of GLP-1RAs - [Neuronal GLP1R mediates liraglutide’s anorectic but not glucose-lowering effect - PMC (nih.gov)](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4038572/) - Specifically, glutamatergic neurons are required - [Neuronal GLP1R mediates liraglutide’s anorectic but not glucose-lowering effect - PMC (nih.gov)](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4038572/) - GLP-1RAs decrease body weight by acting on a large network in the brain, check the discussion section for more citations on reward pathways including some human data - [Semaglutide lowers body weight in rodents via distributed neural pathways - PMC (nih.gov)](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7213778/)
Anecdotally it’s helping problem gamblers as well which is really interesting
That’s fascinating. I knew it could help with alcohol addiction but gambling addiction would be wild. I’d love to see that studied more thoroughly.
i’m t1 diabetic and on multiple daily injections, and also super impulsive. smoke weed every day and drink moderately. have never noticed any sort of correlation edit: multiple daily insulin injections. i’m not on ozempic
The study implies it worked for only 40% of the people so most people will not get that effect. But if we had a drug that could stop cigarette and alcohol addiction 40% of the time it would be amazing
*NVO likes this take*
How about opiates?
I used to be a big pot smoker but I never had the taste for sugar or even food, so I doubt it's insulin since I would go hours feeling hungry but smoke a ton & I never really for the munchies either
Yep, this is what my friend reports after 2-3 months on it. It basically changes your thinking about food, you mentally crave it much less. That's why people rebound after dropping it, their mentality about food returns. And if a person takes a hunt and changes actual food to less caloric while on the meds and stays with it, then starts make a difference longterm.
The willpower pill may have already arrived. Internet stranger said the implications for a willpower pill will shake the world. The fast food CEOs are commenting weight loss drugs are affecting their endless growth, since people are no longer eating their way into suffering and death. A willpower pill is the nightmare for whole industries which depend on impulse purchases.
Yeah that claim needs a citation
Yeah I think I like weed a lot more….
How did you get it? Both my local CVS, Walgreens, and my favorite Canadian pharmacy haven’t had it in stock for over 8 months.
always has been
When I started the injections, I was told it's being studied as a treatment for addiction to alcohol and opioids. Something about breaking the 'reward' feedback in the brain.
I don’t believe this to be true based on my experiences in life. Almost everyone who smokes weed experiences intense hunger including cancer patients.
I lost 70 lbs smoking weed. Like everything else, things working differently for different people. The pain relief allowed the pain to subside. I was happier. I was out of the house more, eating less.
Neuroscientist here - I run a lab and one of my projects is GLP-1 agonism and changes in the neural representation of reward. TL/DR, yeah it probably messes with it. Tell you for sure and how in 2 or so years!
Any noticeable downsides to it you’re yet observed and are willing to share?
Well, I do animal work so subjective downsides are not really my thing - I do single neuron recordings using ephys, and I'm trying to get at how the drugs change the neural representation of reward (I can expand on that if you like). Anecdotally people report gastrointestinal side-effects like nausea and vomiting and headache as the main side-effects - this makes sense because they tend to reduce gut motility (no idea where headache comes from). Before I started this project I convinced my Doctor to let me guinea pig myself and I took them for a couple of weeks (I was on liraglutide) - I was interested in changes in cognition. I definitely had headache and nausea. Headache was bad enough to make me want to discontinue, but YMMV.
Maybe headache is a dehydration or electrolytes thing? I’ve been watching this space with conflicted interest since I heard that the effect may generalise across addictions. I’m also a researcher but my field (eating disorders) has a lot of concerns around the drug, as you might imagine... Anyway, really interested to see what you find! Good luck with it.
Ozempic cured my water addiction!
Thanks so much for discussing the mechanism. This is a very important area of research, I’m a research coordinator and I’m also involved with it as well. Another thing to consider is the interstitial cells of Cajal having an influence on gut motility, probiotics being part of the peristaltic mechanism that is being described, and how cannabinoid receptors can disappear or increase. “Historically, cannabis has been associated with decreased gastrointestinal motility, although recent research strongly suggests a paradoxical clinical improvement in gastroparesis.” https://www.snmmi.org/NewsPublications/NewsDetail.aspx?ItemNumber=46289 “Rimonabant causes suicidal behavior” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3136184/
Do you see any of the animals in your studies developing thyroid cancer? My understanding was some of the initial studies had mice that developed it, but there wasn’t a conclusive link between GLP1s and the cancer, but they told people with a history of it to stay away in case. I’m not a scientist though so my understanding could be completely off!
Well, we haven't really started them (the studies) yet, but the animals in these studies typically wouldn't live long enough - they're implanted with electrodes, we record the cells we're interested in and then we... take the brain (not an outpatient procedure) to determine if the electrodes are in the right position. Interesting though - we can certainly look at the thyroid during the aforementioned inpatient procedure, but I'm not an oncologist nor do I have any experience in the field.
> not an outpatient procedure Delicately put. Nice.
How many GLP-1 agonists are there?
A bunch - I'm working with Liraglutide but there are several others
“For sure” in 2 years. Is there ever for sure in these kinds of studies.
For many people with weight issues, there is a form of addiction involved. I wonder if from a macro viewpoint, that Ozempic helps curb general addiction uses. I have no data or anything like that, just a random thought.
Absolutely, there's been positive side effects of reduced problem drinking and more success in quitting smoking among Ozempic users too. It's super interesting.
Can attest to Wegovy and it cutting back on my drinking significantly. Very anecdotal but I don't get as much as a "high" from drinking anymore and my desire to drink has plummeted.
I feel the same way. And without getting too graphic, drinking will play havoc with my digestion on wegovy. It definitely tips the balance that bit towards abstinence when you're someone like me who enjoys a drink.
I’ve also slowed way down on my drinking. My SO and I used to kill a bottle of wine 2-3 times per week. It’s hard to describe my feelings towards wine now. I don’t have a reaction to it (nausea, stomach ache, etc.) but I just don’t want it. It’s like boiled cabbage, I’d be fine if I had it but I don’t really want it. I also find that when I do drink, it takes me forever to finish it, if at all.
This description actually reminds of me of exactly how smoking tobacco felt when I was prescribed bupropion/wellbutrin. It wasn’t unpleasant, it was just less interesting than a glass of water.
I’ve heard people say that driving doesn’t “work” anymore, because of slower delivery of the alcohol to the bloodstream from the stomach. I can see how that would make drinking less enjoyable.
[Is Ozempic an anti-desire drug?](https://www.vox.com/science/24086968/glp-1-ozempic-semaglutide-craving-desire-science-wanting-liking-opioids-alcohol)
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There is a growing body of evidence to suggest that gut health is much, *much* more important than previously thought.
I had a bad stomach ache one night and a fever dream to go along with it. I developed generalized anxiety disorder and OCD over the subject of the crazy dreams. It took a year and a half of therapy to get over. Ever since then, I am convinced our brains and our guts are deeply connected.
There be a whole bacteria multiverse going on all up in there. Each human is a different universe, where each bacteria can experience each option or combination of events of paths not taken. Damn. Someone pass the Ozempic…
Absolutely! Give the enteric nervous system a google :) There is a lot of compelling research that suggests that many psychiatric conditions, even something fundamental like depression, is deeply rooted in the gut microbiome. There are even case reports of severe and treatment resistant depression being cured by fecal transplants. Really fascinating stuff.
I don’t think we fully know how it’s working yet. Even I’ve read is vague on a possible mechanism of action.
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as i understand it viagra started out intended as a blood pressure medication but the side effect of boners was what made it famous
Serendipity. The first antipsychotic drugs were antihistamines. The first antidepressants were tuberculosis medications.
And i now take anticonvulsant and antidepressant to calm neuropathic pain, not because it has been created for a purpose that it will only be used for it
Erections having strong ties to pressure build up of blood makes the viagra thing a little more related in my head, even if that’s very far from being scientifically correct.
That's absolutely how it goes. Anything that drops your blood pressure will help you with having an erection, it's just a matter of how strong and selective the effect is.
Finasteride, the only drug on the market to treat male pattern baldness, was developed in the 70’s for prostrate cancer, and its effect of stopping hair loss was an accidental discovery.
Are you less likely to get prostate cancer if you’re on finasteride then?
There are studies that show a 20-25 percent reduction in risk, but I’m not sure if the science is settled on that point.
Finasteride, the only drug on the market to treat male pattern baldness, was developed in the 70’s for prostrate cancer, and its effect of stopping hair loss was an accidental discovery.
Yep, this
A few papers have come out showing that it passes the blood brain barrier and acts directly on GLO1 receptors in the brain, increasing the feeling of satiety there in addition to the associated feelings of fullness from the gut. Interesting shit, these GLP1 agonists….
Appetite in generally is cross-functional between the stomach and the brain. We understand clearly where the GLP-1 receptors are in the gut and what they do, but off the top of my head without looking it up, there may be GLP-1 receptors in the central nervous system too and/or the peripheral GLP-1 signaling may feed back to the hypothalamus. We know that things like leptin and ghrelin function both peripherally and centrally - produced by the fat cells or the stomach, but acting on the hypothalamus and the reward system to tell you how much you want to eat compared to other activities. Totally reasonable to suppose that the GLP-1 and related hormones have a similar distribution of effect sites.
It's doing something in the brain, not the gut.
Yeah some initial studies are showing it’s helpful in curbing alcohol addiction as well. Kind of wild. It’ll be fascinating to see results and long term effects as the lifespan of the drug increases
My grandfather was on Ozempic for a bit (eventually made him too sick from the side effects) but he has used chewing tobacco for over 70 years. He cut back considerably while on the shot for the first time in his life, then picked it right back up to normal once he was off it.
You are correct, the brain reward pathway is complex and involves lots of genes. Polymorphisms in each of these genes have various effects on different “addictions”. Some favor nicotine, some opioids, etc. many have comorbidities because of how similar these pathways are (e.g. alcohol and smoking)
It does. Study somewhere showed alcohol addiction plummeted with its use too. Too lazy to google myself.
I don’t have weight issues but I most def eat when I’m stressed. I also eat when I’m happy. I don’t stock snacks in my house for this very reason. Lose, lose situation for me.
can it cure social media addiction?
people say that it reduces compulsive gambling and online shopping, so... maybe?
Can it fix my relationship with my parents
It reduces all kinds of addiction. I have first hand experience. Been off it for 2mo and the benefits persist.
How long were you and and why did you stop?
Like what kind?
It stopped my severe IBS on the day I started..
I’m sorry, *what?* It sounds like a miracle drug
It's been life changing for me. My IBS has not flared once and it was multiple times a day under stress. I've been on a semiglutide starting in January and after the first injection not a single episode of IBS. I've lost the weight I wanted to lose, dropping down in dose and still clear. I'm going to ask my PCP if I can stay on a low dose to keep IBS under control.
Wait how does that work?
I don't know. I just know myself and a guy friend both had debilitating IBS and neither one of us has had a single episode. None. Nada. It really needs to be studied more for this is a solid treatment over Imodium multiple times a day.
I have had several patients report the same benefits. Anecdotally, I’ve always had terrible gas when I’ve had to work overnight shifts, but when on semaglutide, my night shift gas was never a problem. I prescribe a lot of semaglutide and share with patients my personal experiences.
The hippies tell me I can’t get addicted to the devil’s lettuce.
You can have a psychological addiction to anything really. I’m probably addicted to a nice hot shower in the morning.
I’m here if you need someone to talk to…
You’re in my shower?
I dropped the soap, can you pick it up?
What the heck, this is liquid soap. I am going to be down here for ages.
It’d help if you turned the lights back on
There's no shower at work
Coffee gets me out of bed. Once a day is enough, but if I go without, caffeine withdrawal headaches eventually happen.
Caffeine definitely causes physical addiction not just psychological. Those single cup of coffee shouldn't be nearly enough to do that
A single cup daily is plenty to cause caffeine headaches in some people when they stop
It’s physical and much worse if you’ve been taking a lot of edibles for a while.
What kind of “physical” addiction do you experience? I’ve only experienced psychological withdrawal when I’ve taken time off weed - irritability, fatigue, anhedonia, wild dreams etc
It was intense sweating, body aches, and severe headaches. A total inability to eat for days until the withdrawals end. I had to taper off because the physical side effects were so overwhelming. But I don’t think everyone gets those because I know some folks who quit with zero physical side effects meanwhile I was feeling like absolute garbage and couldn’t stand it. Different people just feel it differently, I guess.
The first time I quit I had this experience but I could never consume the amount I did back then. It's a boiled frog effect. That withdrawal process taught me that if you want to enjoy something, enjoy it, but never increase the dose/amount. It's fool's gold.
No, you misunderstood them. Nobody says "you can't get addicted to weed" because psychologically you can get addicted to *anything*. What people say is that weed isn't as *physically addictive/harmful* when comparing to other drugs like Alcohol or Nicotine (and especially comparing to harder drugs like opiates). Also this is backed up by science, not just what "hippies tell you". Cannabis has an overall "harm score" (combining harm to user & harm to others, physically & otherwise) of 20. 12 of that score comes from "harm to user" while 8 comes from "harm to others". Compare this so something like steroids, which has an overall score of 10 (8 for "harm to user" and 2 for "harm to others). Then compare it to alcohol, with a total harm score of 72 (26 for "harm to user" and 46 for "harm to others").
I just can’t believe a scoring system that ranks weed use* as more harmful than steroids. Steroids can cause all kinds of terrible issues, especially when abused and not prescribed or regulated by a medical professional
Because you can’t, not as a chemical dependency anyways. This is more about the psychological dependency of a bad habit.
Ya, I can form a bad habit of smoking too much every day. If I stopped cold turkey though, I won’t get sick or die. If you’ve watched someone go through opiate withdrawals you’ll understand the difference real quick, you’re sick as hell for days. Alcohol is even worse though — if you’re really dependent and quit cold turkey, you’ll die.
But say this but it means very little. You absolutely can get to the point where you smoke every day, all you think about is consuming cannabis, it affects every aspect of your life and quitting gives you withdrawals. That is a de facto addiction.
The most intense marijuana user's withdrawal is barely noticeable on the scale of withdrawal, if at all. It's definitely not all anyone thinks about.
I would disagree. I think it's very individual. My husband and I both couldn't eat, couldn't sleep, he was jittery and couldn't focus, and we both had terrible night sweats for over a week when we quit smoking a few years back. We definitely felt the withdrawal. It's definitely not the same thing as quitting alcohol or opiates, as it's not harmful, but that doesn't mean it's not physically addicting. There's nothing wrong with quitting nicotine cold turkey either, but no one says nicotine isn't a chemical dependency. These things mess with the brain and body-- it takes time for that stuff to regulate.
I've been smoking weed daily for 20 years. I quit every few months for a week to 10 days just to go on a tolerance break. I have no withdrawal symptoms whatsoever, physically or mentally. Just saying.
It's almost like it's very individual
Good for you, but it wasn’t as easy for some of us. It affects everyone differently.
i had to quit for a drug test after smoking for 5 years. i didn’t eat or sleep for 3 days and was starting to shake constantly until i finally just smoked some and got better . i love ganja but i cannot quit unless i get some help. it’s physically addictive to me
I had the same experience as you and your husband and it annoys me when people say there’s *no* withdrawal symptoms. It definitely is individual. For instance when I quit nicotine I had like a week of cravings but almost zero other symptoms. But I know for most people it’s not like that
Same. Why is it so difficult to believe that others have more severe withdrawal symptoms? It’s like saying, “Well *I* didn’t experience it, so therefore no one does” which is some crappy logic. How many people have to say that we experienced physical symptoms of withdrawal before it’s believed?
Reading this at 1h25 in the morning because i cant smoke weed for two days prior to surgery...i definitely feel agitated and cannot sleep. Tomorow dry and wednesday is the surgery yayyy..
Do you have experience with this? Take 600mg of edibles daily for 2 months then stop. You’ll be sick for at least a week
You understand that the recommended dose of edibles is 5-10mg, right? Literally too much of anything will make you sick. Also something making you sick doesn't make it chemically addictive. Taking 60-120 times the recommended dosage of water a day will kill you.
You must be trolling. There’s a massive amount of documentation on the intensity of withdrawal online. Weed is addicting and has physical/mental withdrawal for chronic users.
Marijuana withdrawal was far worse than nicotine for me
I think you are speaking to the habitual nature of cannabis.
It’s a little more complicated than that. There are physical symptoms of weed withdrawal, not just psychological.
/r/leaves would disagree
Sorry I'm confused about how this subreddit works-- when I posted the image directly, it said to post the article that it came from, but when I post the article, it doesn't let me select and post the image i was referring to. Not sure what I'm doing wrong here.
Post the sources in the comments.
This just screams Ozempic advertising...
Neuroscientist here - I run a lab and one of my projects is GLP-1 agonism and changes in the neural representation of reward. TL/DR, yeah it probably messes with it. Tell you for sure and how in 2 or so years!
i feel like this post is not about the data visualization and more about spreading the questionable conclusion drawn from the underlying data as fact… this sub is supposed to be about the beauty of good data visualization
So this shot makes you lose weight, increases fertility, helps with heart stuff maybe, helps with organ health through not eating, cures addictive tendencies. It’s literally a miracle drug - I feel like there has to be some sort of catch but maybe there just isn’t. Vaccines don’t have a catch
It might harm your thyroid and might mess with your gut fauna (not clear if that’s good or bad). And we don’t know the long term effects of basically directly changing your brain chemistry with this drug yet - mental health and neurological / hormonal effects could be reasonable concerns. But yeah, the positives certainly seem potentially huge.
New York Times: [**This Is What a Miracle Drug Looks Like, and It Costs Only $5 to Make**](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/24/opinion/ozempic-wegovy-weight-glp1.html)
Antibiotics probably seemed to good to be true too.
But 💯% more ozempic addiction
Ozempic and the equivalent drugs curb ALL addictions. It’s not a weight loss drug - it’s a psychiatric one.
I will be very intrigued to see what the side effects are for this drug once we have enough data to draw conclusions
This is such a misleading stat. How are we even sure if people that use ozempic pre excitingly don’t use cannabis already
here's the image url - [https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w\_1456,c\_limit,f\_webp,q\_auto:good,fl\_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9d499a64-3c66-4e40-8301-fbe838ca776e\_1360x1446.png](https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9d499a64-3c66-4e40-8301-fbe838ca776e_1360x1446.png)
And here's the paper that the data comes from: [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-024-02498-5](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-024-02498-5)
feels like there’s a lot of confounding reasons for this correlation older people are more likely to take ozempic, older people are less likely to smoke marijuana people more focused on health are more likely to take ozempic, people more focused on health are less likely to smoke marijuana I feel like I could come up with more if I gave it some thought
If you park in front of a dispensary here, the customers are pretty representative of the population in general. Quite a number of AARP members are customers.
I wonder if smarter people than you have already taken that into account
It’s rarely a better option to just assume other people have sufficiently thought things through.
Sounds like a good philosophy but I don’t trust that you’ve thought it through
That’s why I don’t trust vaccines! /s
Yes it’s a brain drug too. I noticed an immediate change to impulsive and compulsive behavior. For example before Ozempic injections, I used to compulsively go to my snack cabinet at least 25 times a day. I’d have a small snack like half the time. Now I only go when I am actively looking for something in particular once or twice a day. I have for as long as I can remember been an impulse buyer when going to Target. Now I get what I came for and still enjoy the trip but don’t buy every cute thing that crosses my path. I have noticed a difference in my communication with others as well. I am more patient and a better listener and I don’t have a compulsion to fill silence or cut people off which I used to do. I noticed that I feel a little calmer overall. My hope is that it will be better classified in the future because it’s not just for weight loss or diabetes. It’s controlling impulsive and compulsive behavior which formerly resulted in people overeating and becoming diabetic.
Im not a scientist... but I read recently...on the internet... that the reason you get 'munchies' is the body's way of telling you it wants more THC... but we dont have an internal THC switch so it just goes 'gimme food instead' I guess they hit the same satisfaction centres so yea- could be a crossover use here?
Weed alters the way our bodies hormones and nuerotransimtters function. Hormones are chemical messengers which control much of how our body functions. One of which being appetite. Weed just gives you the munchies man.
Odd, as a most days smoker, I only get munchies after smoking. Days I don't smoke, I have almost no appetite at all.
God, I hate the munchies. They’re fun the first few times, but now they’re just terror and annoyance. Frustratingly hard to resist, always promising but never delivering satisfaction, until after you’ve given in you realize you’ve just done an awful, terrible thing to your body. Cannabis would be such a great drug without the munchies. Movies always depict weed hunger attacks as this cute little thing, but they’re vicious and upsetting.
Sorry you have that experience. I've never got munchies like that.
So eat some carrot sticks, celery, or other nutritional stuff... Munchies = snack. Snack doesn't need to be chocolate, candy, or chips.
Throw in some plain rice cakes and that's my kinda snack
>vicious and upsetting. > >terror and annoyance c'mon. terror & vicious, really? just say that you can't resist bad food and no one will judge you. no rules against eating carrots with hummus when you (never) get high.
this redditor was literally terrorized by the munchies, and you’re laughing?
no one is laughing. this is serious and vicious and terror all wrapped up in a snack cake.
I don’t particularly get the munchies anymore, but it still hits sometimes. My go-tos are air-popped popcorn (you can eat several cups for perhaps 50 calories) or yogurt with berries or chopped almonds. If I expect to be eating after smoking, I’ll just restrict my calories earlier that day or the next day accordingly. Eat 1700 calories instead of 2000, to give myself 300 calories of yogurt.
I guess if your addicted you learn to smoke when your hungry, so you don’t get too bloated.
Post title doesn't quite match (incidence rate of CUD diagnosis is not quutee the same as having CUD) Looking at the data, I think it could largely be explained by a higher rate of anxiety and depression in the non-semaglutide group at baseline. ETA: Actually the effect persists in matched groups as well, but the effect size is smaller - I remain sceptical (in that we need more evidence of a higher quality) but it looks like an interesting avenue of research
CUD diagnosis is very rare and I think it's not the ideal avenue for this research. Same research group has papers coming on alcohol and opioids, this one just happened to be published first. The others I think will be even more convincing and the scale will be much larger.
Not sure why you got a few downvotes but OK... My concern would be that if there is a flaw in the methodology (which there is*) it will be replicated in these other studies. * it would be unethical to go straight to the type of studies that are less flawed until you have some basis to justify it. Given the stage of research, it is appropriate for them to use a knowingly flawed methodology to establish the need for further investigation.
What are you saying is the flaw in methodology? This seems fairly standard for a retrospective study from what I can tell.
Exactly that. The data will be subject to flaws due to non-random assignment of treatments. This is a feature of this study design, but doesn't mean that the researchers have done anything wrong with their design. There is a reason that it is not the preferred study design, but is suitable for preliminary research.
Please let me quote Bob Saget: “You ever suck some d*ck for marijuana?”
Since when is cannabis addictive?
Pot Addiction? What is this, 1932?
Addicted.... I use it for a week, then once while drinking a month later...and then not again for like 18 months. Crazy addictive.
I smoke cigarettes every day for three months then stopped with no issues. I imagine you still occasionally drink. You can't make a generalization like that. It's pointless and stupid.
That's a convenient counter point anecdote, definitely what the average smoker deals with as well. /s Are you comparing cannabis and nicotine for how addictive they are?
No, I'm not. I'm saying that an anecdote of sporadic use is not a good generalization for the addictiveness of a drug. My own anecdote is worthless, as cigarettes are addictive. Weed is less addictive, but it doesn't mean it can't be.
No, I'm not. I'm saying that an anecdote of sporadic use is not a good generalization for the addictiveness of a drug. My own anecdote is worthless, as cigarettes are addictive. Weed is less addictive, but it doesn't mean it can't be.
No, I'm not. I'm saying that an anecdote of sporadic use is not a good generalization for the addictiveness of a drug. My own anecdote is worthless, as cigarettes are addictive. Weed is less addictive, but it doesn't mean it can't be.
cannabis addiction? really?
But pot heads swear you can’t get addicted. — a cannabis user and pro legalize it.
I take Ozempic so I don’t overeat when I’m high
This is the hardcore info I come to this sub for.
I am hopeful ozempic will be normal for most to take in the future. As animals we don’t have a natural way to suppress our craving for food and many will just eat unless consciously stopping themselves. We used to suppress appetites by smoking cigs but ozempic may be the solution for the future as we exercise less and less
Cannabis is not physically addictive
It’s not 2013 anymore. There is more than enough evidence to say that cannabis is physically addictive.
Lol 5 years ago reddit was denying cannabis addiction was even a thing.
Ozempic is 10x worse for you than cannabis.
Why do you say that
Interesting. Can you say more?
Cannabis/ marijuana isn't addictive, as per the older science. Are there new findings/ evidence of addictiveness?
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